Yeon has been really good for awhile now just been slept on by a lot of people and Thorin is right Noah has been exposed. A lot of European ADs get exposed though it's why Hans Sama didn't do well in NA it's the weakest position in the region even worse than top imo.
@@Jose-cr3zn Firstly Yeon is trash. Secondly European ADs are generally pretty decent. Hans didnt do well in NA because TL were a dumpster fire org and team.
ADs in EU are actually good, we just did not send the bests. Hans is top 3 but Ice and Carzzy outperformed him. We may not find again Perkz/Rekkles but Yeon beating Noah does not mean anything.
thank god for Chronicler for actually being the one of the only analysts on the desk offering legit analysis in some of these series, the amount of meme quotes and one-liners half of these clowns go for EVERY game
Monte talking about Bel'Veth is 100% spot on. Everyone tunneling on Hans' item choices while they had a champion in the jungle literally more useless than a cannon minion in these teamfights.
The champ got turbo fucked in the lvl 1, and BelVeth is a minion from behind. That's why a Xin Zhao or Viego would have been better picks there, even if they want to go for the lvl 1 invade. The champs are useful even if that lvl 1 goes poorly
Belveth got turbofucked at level 1 and then cant do anything. Hans not building LDR whilst being the main frontline killer on his team and being gifted a 4 kill lead from the start of the game is omega troll... like literally if he had built LDR, the entire game changes because he could actually deal with Ksante.
Faker was 2nd best mid in lck during spring split, so it would be hard to argue he wasnt top 5 during spring split. He is having bad tournament but that doesnt remove his spring split but if you ask thorin he is just bad because he isnt as good as the number 1 and 2 mid laners in the world he quite possible could have been 3rd this spring. Thorin's blind hate just too much.
Because Thorin measures him to the Faker Goat. Faker isn't that player anymore, he's still freaking good and one of the best in the world, just not the undisputed best anymore
I know TL isn't gonna win shit but what gives me hope for this team is that they've continued to improve, particularly Yeon. He was pretty terrible last year. This year, he stepped up a lot during regular season, then even more in playoffs, and then again so far at MSI. He's shown that he can learn new champions pretty quickly. I think that growth is really promising and I think the team really can do something with Yeon long term. APA I'm not sold on unless he massively improves the champion pool, but hey. If someone in LCS can actually properly play Lucian Nami, that's a huge draft advantage. Whereas I think this trip massively hurts Flyquest and their confidence going forward, I think it will have done the opposite for TL. I think summer will just come down to TL vs C9.
Now now, Xiaohou was actually a big Mechanical carry for a good period, his corgi was game winning, his Taliyah was game breaking, his Zoe was really dangerous. That era was just overshadowed by Uzi then being subbed in . Cool was also a big Mechanical carry, even post season 4, he was cracked his last two seasons
it is so tough to see the narratives be crowbarred in this MSI, even Dagda was doing it a bit with some BLG points, but Drakos and Jatt seem to be the biggest narrative enjoyers
I’m not a fan of any region or team, I am just a fan of whoever is playing the best League of Legends in the world. And right now, that just happens to be Team Liquid.
Yeah, I think G2 is getting overhyped here. They had a close series against an underperforming Faker and a T1 that seems a bit lost. I’m expecting TOP to 3-1 or 3-0 them. Creme’s even low performance will be enough to neutralize Caps and JL/Meiko are going to do work in the bot lane. Teams that do creative things to win matches have a hard time going very far in long tournaments because cheese and weird angles get figured out pretty quickly. If they do make it work though, big props to their coaching staff and the players for their flexibility.
@@zohairkhan5755Your analysis is nonsensical, Creme has a "low performance" yet can "neutralise Caps" something that Faker (playing better than Creme right now) was struggling to do? Jackylove/Meiko will do the work, we need to look at the top side however, BB/Yike/Caps all look extremely strong.
@zohairkhan5755 tbh I was making the opposite point D: I think if the level one works out, they have a big chance of winning that game. I completely disagree with your reasoning on tes vs. g2, but funnily enough, I also believe that tes will 3-1 g2. My predicton is that the top side will get ahead significantly, but not enough to put jkl and meiko in the dirt and come mid game tes botlane is going to blow up g2 (to my disappointment since I am a eu baby 😢)
So is KC just speedrunning becoming the new TSM by signing Canna? They have already thrown one very good coach and one of the most talented players ever under the bus to protect their franchise players, they have no money but are signing way-past-their-prime imports, have cultivated one of the most unhinged fanbases in Europe, have an unlikable owner who's way to involved with the roster despite obviously lacking the knowledge and constantly complain about things being unfair (in their case it's 'racism', with TSM it was import rules). The only part they are missing is the one where TSM was at least pretty successful in their domestic tier 1 league for a few years.
that's why I said the only part KC is missing is the domestic success TSM has had in the beginning. They just skipped all that and only looked at the last years of TSM 😄
@@radekhruby142 true 😄 but KC has that part down perfectly 😄 they even have their own Reginald and a franchise player with way too much sway in the organization despite being a mediocre player at best 😄
Once Gen g locked Ashe I was worried Lehends dont play Ashe in lck he tried once, but did not work out, but man his Ashe against TES was clean. Gen g vs BLG is like Khabib vs Conor hype at this point.
Hey im a t1 fans and agree with most of your takes, but making almost every final that this roster has played in, I dont know if thats ever happened in league has to account for something, LCK 1st, msi 2nd, lck 2nd, worlds 2nd, lck 2nd msi 3rd lck 2nd worlds 1st and now lck 2nd. Like People call t1 a meta team but this amount of consistency is insane and the clutch factor was missing.
Its their definition of winning everything which they only hold T1 to those standards, but overall if you take the aggregate placement through multiple tournaments and seasonal splits they consistently place higher than any other team. Yes the meta has to be hit them right to be the best but that is the case for any team that wins. If you take the top LPL and top LCK teams over the past 3 years. Yes they have had different rosters but looking at the top teams here are the results from the last 3 years going from ( spring 2024, worlds 2023, summer 2023, msi 2023, spring 2023, worlds 2022, summer 2022, msi 2022, spring 2022, worlds 2021 ( BLG: 1st, 3rd-4th, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, DNQ, 9th-10th, DNQ, 7th-8th; DNQ; JDG: 3rd, 3rd-4th, 1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd-4th, 1st, 4th, DNQ, DNQ; EDG: 16th, 5th-6th, 3rd, DNQ, 3rd, 5th-8th, 3rd, DNQ, 7th-8th, 1st; LNG: 7th-8th, 5th-8th, 2nd, DNQ, 5th-6th, DNQ, 4th, DNQ, 5th-6th, 12th-13th; RNG: 14th, DNQ, 9th-10th, DNQ, 7th-8th, 5th-8th, 5th-6th, 1st, 1st, 5th-8th; GEN G: 1st, 5th-8th, 1st, 4th, 1st, 3rd-4th, 1st, DNQ, 2nd, 3rd-4th; T1: 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 3rd-4th; DK: 4th, 9th-11th, 5th, DNQ, 5th, 5th-8th, 4th, DNQ, 3rd, 2nd. ) JDG and GEN G have more 1st but also have lower placements at same tournaments compared to T1.
@@Drdakr12 true also the fact that this roster has stayed for together longer makes them have more oppurtunities, but i would not say geng becsause even though thexy won every lck the internationals were horrible, even if u say 4th msi, quarter and semis worlds 23 and 22, i think t1 was more consistent
Bindu the Mystic here. I'm mysticking right now with the machine elves. D&D rulebook 1.5 --- TRDL; I'm salty right now, do you have an open couch session around 12 to 2 PM Central time? Consult the aboriginal Asians to work that out and get back to me. Thank you in advance and also TY to Kobe for the Allyoop. When is the freeze pipe coming back? Need to give one to Rand so she can smoke the pipe for creativity so I won't get banned from X like Twitter. TY again x 2.
I'm not trying to con you, nor extortion at all. I'm actually broke pun intended 100% the truth. That is not right though, but those Girls be Trouble (pun). There's an Aphrodite in the mix too along with Zeus showing you just a small sample size of what Ale on EDG would do with you on Camille. Ask Bin, it's his world according to skojiz. Gotta go again, I'm battling Danielle's Trickster again. Edit: You can Paypal Rand it instead if it'll fix her "Art" that wouldn't get me banned from X like it did on Twitter.
@advancedapathy1531 this is just sour.. did u watch the games tl vs t1? Wasnt TL lossing winable games?? Ofc he said the 4 korean thing, that was TL whole branding when they made this team
this. eu fans always cry about na talking shit after talking mad shit about na. can't take it but love to dish it out. it fits his friend group as well. dom and ls are the exact same as thorin. manchildren who cry whenever someone shittalks them, but made careers off of shittalking other people.
Chovy vs Knight is tge most forced (Knight)fan driven rivalry/comparison ever. It's not a thing. Last season, Ruler - who arguably had the strongest ADC season ever - was the superstar of JDG. This season Bin is the superstar of BLG and Elk+On - who were the best botlane in the world in spring - were the consistent carries. I had a good chuckle when the broadcast switched from the featured matchup being "Chovy vs Knight" to being "Chovy vs Bin" in the grand finals. I think that says enough about Knight.
Objectively and in theory should it be noteworthy that the LCS 1st seed beat the LEC 2nd seed? Of course not. But this is lolesports we're talking about. There is nothing noteworthy about NA, seeding is often handled poorly by Riot, and an LCS team will never win Worlds - whereas an LEC team has had the opportunity to do so twice, and continues to lord that over NA fans' heads. So yes, Team Liquid dumpstering Fnatic in 2024, the year of our Lord, is memorable and worthy of gloating. Have at it NA fans - but try to go easy on EU fans a bit. They're not used to misery and defeat as much as us, so they're a little bit shocked and sensitive right now.
has had that opportunity one of those times by beating an NA team lol, only to get absolutely fisted both times. EU peak is still slightly better than NA and doesn't matter compare to lck/lpl
Maybe I have the wrong read but T1 banned naut everytime they picked senna tham which was on red side so maybe they were scared of the naut first pick and keria can actually play it but i'm not sure his naut def didn't look that good last time I saw it
Danielle: Don't hate the Trickster, hate your Game. You are mischievous and naughty - Red Card Proof, and let your team down almost as much as Katie Hopkins and her Wife "Mavis" Sandra Bernhard (not the one who ran it down more than BB on Roseanne) on The Apprentice UK. Do not think for one second that you can ever fool me, that goes to all you potential interns too.
As much as Faker's champion pool has been exposed from getting targetted, I think Keria's decline in his overall gameplay might be a more long term problem for T1. It may look like Faker is the weakest player given how much he's been running it down, but he's also arguably their highest impact player. The other players on the roster aren't exactly deep in their champ pools in this meta either. Coming into MSI, I actually think Faker was the best player in T1 this season. My favorite player on the roster, Gumayusi, while consistent hasn't exactly been peaking and his champions are mostly standard pairings with Keria. Zeus seems to just be TF, K'sante, and Zac with varying results. Oner while decent mostly wants to play Xin Zhao. And then there's Keria.... Like Faker, you expect him to have a champion ocean, but the mechanical spark that he had isn't there right now and having a wider champion pool with less impact is worse than having a strong core champion pool but more limited options. Like why ban Keria if his impact is barely there. Let's ban Faker because we know he's the biggest threat if given his good champs.
For some reason everybody refuses to admit that Keria is a massively streaky player. This is hardly the first tournament where he looks WAY worse than expectations.
@Cornincarnate keria when he isn't playing adcs is beatable delight and mickyx, and On were outplaying him. Also On has gotten better with adc support picks so i don't think it'll be a keria exclusive strength for very long.
I hope you guys are wrong I don’t think we have seen APA and Yeon’s ceilings yet Sure, we have all seen a dozen challenger players bomb out, but APA and Yeon look to be steadily improving I mean hell, they are playing with two world champions and an LCK veteran… surely they would have to learn some great stuff just through osmosis… T1 is probably going to shit stomp TL, but I love to see these two carries improving
We EU fans just dubbed TL as LCK 5th/6th seed with GAPA/YAPA since they beat Fnatic and also their is big gap between our LEC 1st seed and 2nd seed not to take anything from fnatic they did good and got 2nd seed afterall but reality is we are just run by a 1 team region or 1 man region for those who dont know.
Poppy: I will not only block you but Ghost you and I'm not kidding if you play Grande's "break up with your girlfriend" one more time. Cluster Headaches in this World is nothing compared to what's in the Mysticking World. In fact, you paypal Rand and she'll ban you from X even too if you keep it up as we all know you are an X W.
Good Goddess, although Keria is more cute than you. Next time I'll put on my metaphysical Stacey Adams boots. Queen BB aka Fake French Girl aka Little Person (in a good way) get ready.
This episode aged like milk. Preface this with I am a fan of the show and not flaming. But every single point you made against T1 they seemingly disproved in the G2 lower bracket game. It's like khoma was listening and rangled the kids to play standard and "keria you are playing naut, get over it".
2:48:30 I'd say only losing one bo5 and getting eliminated is a pretty shit feeling after literally every other team also lost a bo5 and was still in the tourney I like how it's "we gotta have the 2 best teams in the finals" how about making sure the best team wins? Monte constantly says its not an advantage to lose, no one is saying it is (at least, not intelligent people). The problem is you're taking away the advantage of NOT losing- idk if he noticed, the losers bracket team isn't affected by this
Bindu again, Roccat Grab Girl says what's up. She's in a good mood now finally accepting the Sega Dolphin genre, cause I won't budge on N64 Golden Threads. Before I go back mysticking collecting pimp points. I'm going to gamble on the games. Do you think Queen Broken Blade's simp and rumored BF from Nat-Cofee will run it down more than Grande's last 3 albums? I checked out her discography but need a Shaman in your couch now, but the machine elves D&D rulebook 2.0 can fuck with it, 'tis is life but like lee sinn it's the rule if you hit the Q. I'm banned right now and bored cause in our world I took the 2nd Q and Truck Guard said it did 200% damage or something?!?! I'm thinking of giving up on the game now cause I'm so triggered. TRDL; I'm very salty and now bitter so scratch last post and I'm open for a couch session till 3:23 PM Central. TY x3. Back to shaman shit grinding on trying to battle Danielle Van der Cun..... Trickster using my magic stick unlike humid. Loki, pun intended: The Church Of Chocy was founded on it.
Cusco- Ghost Dance ----- Jamiroquai Corner Of The Earth. Tyson Fury, I'm coming for the Gypsy King Title for real for real. Best of 10 Muay Thai, Kick Boxing, MMA, Boxing. The only issue that I'd have would be Boxing, but I'd hook up with Max Kellerman and Sweat Pea your ass. MMA would be a lock with Leila Mcfarland, Blanchfield and the Warrior Princess (The Romanian one from Can) who will also teach our Girls too. Along with China, take notes sloppy watered down MMA our Girls are coming too.
Thorin must not know what GOAT means, A T stands for all time, not right now. Chovy and knight are definately better right now. Although to be honest the fact that both of them are here makes it harder for either of them to take this title because they are so competitive with each other. At his peak faker felt peerless. You can make the argument to have chovy or knight now shadowbox vintage faker but its not reliable because so amny things have changed so much fundamental knowledge has been passed along players things that pro players used to complete and drop draws are now being executed by bronze players. You cannot realistically shadowbox from such different eras in the game so you have to compare them in their eras of dominance. Peak is important in GoAT conversation but duration and longevity is also a factor.
I agree that "GOAT is all about looking at plays with name plates off and seeing which is best". The problem with that is I dont think Faker wins that. I think nameplates off, Chovy or Knight has to get it. Faker gets it purely on titles and intangibles, but Chovy and Knight have shown individual skill gaps against their peers that I think excede what Faker was doing in season 3. Which I think is even more impressive than what faker was doing in season 3, because as point out, the overall level is the highest it's ever been, and they keep consistantly doing it while Faker hasn't been able to since season 7. And more importantly, has Faker, at any point in time during the most competitive years of LoL, been the best individual player in the world? There's definitely been times when Chovy and Knight haven't, I think for large parts of 2023 Ruler had a very good shout for that title, but Faker hasn't come close. Also regarding "expoerts/people in the scene generally dont have omegahot takes cos other experts would dogpile them" I saw Doublelift literally say that dumpstering Faker in game 1 would be the highlight of MSI winner (probably soon to be 2x MSI winner) and multiple times LPL winner Knight's entire career. Also that FNC are better than top, predominantly from a bot gap.
To answer the "Has Faker, at any point in time during the most competitive years of LoL, been the best individual player in the world?" Question: Yes he has. That was from Summer Season 5 to Worlds Season 7. Right until the moment, when Rulers Varus Ult hit him... When he reached 3 straight Worlds finals and the gap between Faker and the rest was just... well, let me explain: There was this completly broken Champ in Season 5 named reworked Ryze. Everyone played it and looked good on it... well, except Faker, who didn't care. Then Riot nerfed it into the ground. They literally gave that champ the Yuumi treatment and said "Don't play it!". It had like a 42 % Winrate in Solo Que on that Worlds Patch. And that was exactly the moment, Faker decided to play this champ (and G4, a Wildcard team, picked it against Faker,). He went 5W-0L and picked it in the finals in a Lulu mid meta. No one else touched it. Faker then gets a solo kill in a 1vs2 against the RoxTigers. Think about that for a second: He could pick the arguably worst champion on the patch, that didn't fit into the meta at all and that noone else even looked at in the Worlds Final and he dominated on it. Just look for "Faker Ryze highlights Worlds 2015" and remember, that nobody back then understood, how Faker dealt that much damage on this champ. The other players had 4 weeks to practise the pick, after Faker had shown it early, but no one managed to pick it up. Oh and in 2016, he won MSI, IEM, Worlds and one of 2 LCK Splits. The year after the Ryze gap was even more succesfull. Then he dragged 4 corpses to the Worlds Final on Galio in 2017. And then he got hit by the Varus ult and never recovered...
@@PassivesAbseits Faker at his peak used to lock in shit like Riven and Master Yi mid and would be solo killing you under your turret. Players like Chovy, Knight and countless other top tier pro players don’t even exist today if it wasn’t for Faker revolutionizing the entire game and being an inspiration to infinite number of young players who aspired to become pros. That’s why real reason why Faker’s GOAT status is untouchable by anyone else.
I mean saying T1 shouldnt be given 3rd in tier lists because they havent delivered is abit sus, they have made the past 2 worlds finals and were 3rd at MSI in 2023 and 2nd at MSI 2022 The one you should be arguing about is GenG who were ranked 1st on most tier list going into all the international events and haven't made a single finals, 4th at MSI 2023, 3-4 at worlds 2022, and 5-8 at Worlds 2024, maybe instead of saying T1 don't deserve the 3rd rank they should be asking why the first seed from LCK gets a number 1 or two spot.
I think the funny fact about T1's resume is that 2023 statistically was the 2nd best team of the year behind JDG. Gen G should be questioned more for sure as #1 LCK seed 2 years in a row was considered frontrunners both times but the international factor gets handwaved every single time. Even LCK watchers don't trust Gen G (more like Chovy teams really), because of the demons of the past.
So T1 should just be no.1 in tier lists at every international tournament because of history... not because of how they are actually playing right now.
@@PeoplePleaser578 have zero clue how you came to this conclusion. all i was doing was highlight the fact that T1 has delivered on the ranking of 3rd at the previous international events and GenG haven't. thorin comment was we should look at T1 3rd ranking when his comment should be why GenG has always been 1st or 2nd and have never delivered. T1 were pretty constantly ranked 3rd coming into the current MSI, if they beat TL they will at worse be 4th or could get 3rd. but i dont think they have a chance at 1st or 2nd
Love you both and have listened to SI for years, but come on guys, “why isn’t everyone losing on purpose for losers bracket advantage” is such a strawman, who would ever admit in an interview they threw a game, and nobody can play to lose a bo5 without it being obvious - which again would lead to them being banned. Respect you both but that was a dumb take.
I used to watch this show every week. It just has become so tiresome listening to the flaming of NA or T1 or how stupid the viewers are. Its hard to listen to, cant finish.
@@ShoorfLonelyLokly that's the problem. they're still yapping about the same shit and beating the same dead horse. old dogs can't learn new tricks. that's why their twitter following and this show's viewership has stagnated for the past 5 years.
@simone-fz9hl faker at 5 is a bit dramatic but his inability to play Tristana Aurelion sol and corki literally put him bottom of the barrel for this meta
TY, Queen Broken Blade with the paypal in that World and not giving any to Rand because we both know that'd be hopeless. Don't get it twisted, it's only cause I fuc* Poppy IRL because she's a little trickster yordle Goddess like most of my roster. If you want to win then double of what you put in but it's a good start. TY again x5.
Moral of the story: Life imitates Art. Not the Rand kind however, and I want to make that very clear. Her "Art" got me banned from twitter for real for real. I was joking about the last thing about that Troll or Half-Orc, not sure. I'm still triggered/confused on everything. I'm talking in the 2nd person with two accounts, to two guys, and on youtube MSI in real time also, but WHY?@?@??@ Did the Lee Sinn's? 2nd Q do 200% AD damage and suspend me in our mystic world. Rules are rules though.. Randbling here..... Trdl; Laure: My bad hun about calling you a little person. I checked my D&D version 1.8 along with the Gamers Nexus dude aka... Your Earth's Jesus because your 7 years of trial and tribulation or tribbles is going down for real, along with the Metis 8th fire. Anyways, randbling again trdl; she's a Gnome actually, not a little person. Again my bad Laure. It's been real. Tricksters be Tricksters I'm now rich AF thanks to QueenBB's Simp Coyote Makes This/Our World I have unlimited pimp points Shaman in your arms Get the book Night Watchman on Amazon. Not the first one that pops up, but the sci-fi one that is literally top of the food chain and won all the sci-fi awards that are almost prestige as the Man Booker Award. Then go to his/her website and pre-order a signed copy Oct. 1st. I'm rich AF right no. Thank you Broken Blade, but not as broken as your mental right now for getting f'd by two Gods at the same time. I wans't messing around with the price and Poppy be Poppy. ---- T1 vs G2 just started and i'm typing this. I'm such a fuc*en idiot but I'd rather collect my pimp points and or Goddess and Angels or Angles??? Again Skjioz confused me and I'm juggling Girls litke turret shots now. Props to Gen G and Arnold. Get it for Chovy and he'll become the GOAT. F me. Queen BB just got first kill For real. Maybe I need to edit this later because he paid, so if you read this in real time and I dont' edit it, I didn't mean it at this time. TheShy on G2 for Summer. That will print more $$$$ than Twisted Fate ever could. G2 at the 02 for Worlds to rep and take home EU their first trophy. Jankos and Wunder being on G2 staff for content and parties on parties. They know it's the last run with this ironic group as they hit their peak.
My point. They don't have a shot to win World's with BB. There can be only one BB ask Laure for real. Broken is good with it too because he'd love to join that group too (give him some games) because it'll be the best moments of their lives while changing them at the same time.
keep glazing g2 lmao, can't wait top esports wrecked them , g2 is a team that gets lucky once every 5 years and monte/thorin loves gawk gawk and glaze g2.
Yea. Personally I despise and hate G2. I also hate how EU casters especially Medic and Vedius always go mega overboard when EU teams are playing and they do something good In the game, but when the other team does something good they don't hype it up as much or at all
Coyote can and may make this world but I'm also tied to the Spider --- Great Courses Philosophy: Great Mythologies of the World 57 - Native American Tricksters (we're the good kind, but he talks about the South Tricksters in there and blends them a bit) also Great Courses History: Ancient Civilizations of North America 07 - Medicine Wheels of the Great Plains. That's Me/Us. Hoop Of Life & White Buffalo's along with bringing fun/sexy back. I or possibly one day "We"? if you Grande: Saturn Returns Interlude. I have our true Earth Angels? TY Skjiz on lock and protected, trust me and we will do damage on a scale that you can't compute but AI probably can and will one day. We will be making our own Olympics soon no matter what, it's your choice if you want to join us or not.
The best SK Telecom commercial would be T1 getting DDOS'd mid-scrim, so Faker pulls out his "TMBrand Telecom Relevant Phone" and turns on his hotspot, the boys all connect, they win the game. Thumbs up at screen.
Faker just trying to get to lose bracket because it's a buff to play more games going thru lower bracket. Upper bracket gets you less practice. (This is sarcasm.)
doublelift is a clown but i think he just loves to double down on his trolling just cause of everyone getting triggered but it doesn’t even come off as trolling and just idiot behavior
Didn’t Faker say in a press conference or interview after the BLG match that he’s still dealing with his wrist injury? I don’t think anyone could play A Sol while dealing with that
Love seeing Thorin mald trying to say that NA isn't as good as EU. In the past 3 years only 4 western teams have made it to quarters, C9 (2021) Mad (2021) Rouge (2022) NRG (2023). Both regions suck EU fans need to get over it
Historically EU has been superior to NA in any way possible. MSI title, 2 worlds Finals, better head to head. Yes, both regions are trash compared to the asians, but there still isnt any valid Point to say that NA isnt even more trash
If EU is a one team region why does this TL win suddenly count. It doesn't beause of the Narrative that NA fans are now trying to rewrite to look better. Unless TL beat T1 and G2.
@@yigitkazanoglu1549 lol just said you have double standard. If Asian line up is not "countable" so is that HLE line up when Chovy lose bo1 look like countable for you ?
@@yigitkazanoglu1549 ah yes my bad , but i should remind you deft got health problem right before lck playoff that made him play like shit entire playoff and half of next year
I have arrived to listen to Thorin and Monte whine about how TL vs FNC is not indicative of NA being better than EU. EDIT: Yep, knew it. Not even 5 minutes.
NA wouldn’t consistently beat G2. We are not better overall than EU. I think we definitely have the potential to be better but once the consistency is there we can say that.
NA vs EU is so funny because it's historically a tier 2 region vs a tier 2.5 region. At least in Dota NA vs EU both regions have won TIs and the beef is like 30% of leagues. It reminds me of the meme with the 3rd place guy popping champagne.
in dota eu dominates everyone cause in dota you need more brain room to decide what to do and improve also has more macro strategies than league ever has
thorin going on a 20-minute rant about NA to start off the episode is precisely why we Americans shit talk EU. It's fun, hilarious when you get a reaction. These EU guys care so much about this shit like its their life. Most angry fucks I've ever seen online are EU league fans and it's entertaining as shit lmao
@@alexandernaydenov7539Explain to me how is it possible for a macro heavy game to be stalled to 90 minutes and end up in some dumb 5 man stealth backdoor?
I mean JDG were the best team in the world in 2023.. wasn't even close.. next is probably blg..and then geng.. the meta was perfect for T1 Also what's crazy is that the other 4 players turn into bots when faker is not on the team.. or pressured
here we go another podcast where you shit on faker for hours just because u get triggered by random's people comments on the internet("t1 fans"), and the rest of it is insulting everybody for the tiniest reasons; it's not that funny anymore
T1 should have tried to get Peanut. They need a different jungler to do well consistently. T1 have never won in standard metas, Won LCK in COVID meta, Won Worlds with random ranged support meta switch in worlds playoffs. Keria can't play normal champs and Zeus can't play normal Top champs. But their jungler just isn't stable enough to get this roster consistent good play.
Caps is by default miles ahead of faker rn because even if caps' mages were only on par with fakers level atm, he still can whip out the melee mids too which faker clearly cant atm.
@@evilkingster Even the biggest faker glazers should not be able to look at his performance this tournament and think he is anywhere near the top 5 mids, this is just sad to read 💀
2:45:00 Outside of Knight and Chovy, what non-Western Mid laner would anyone be threatened by. I'm sorry, but outside of Knight and Chovy, all the top midlaners are Westerners. And even Caps is in the same conversation as Knight and Chovy. Caps, Jensen, APA, and Humanoid would all be above Faker and Creme.
Is actually mindblowing that these guys hate on t1 because they didnt win more international titles. Like wtf??? JDG made one final in The Last 2 years( witch they won) GEN G NEVER made a final and t1 made 4 and won 1(Worlds 2023). No words...
did you listen to literally anything they said? T1 have the spending power to literally get the best Koreans in every single role if they wanted. nobody else in lck can do that. when you don't do that and then lose to fucking DRX in world finals then yeah its a fucking disappointment. use your brain
@@mrbubbles188Monte specifically said T1 got lucky to win. Also T1 has never been that team to go and buy every biggest Korean superstar, they always have been an organization that strived for attracting the youngest top pros and to develop them which has been extremely successful considering how many great players who are not only competing in LCK but also in LEC and LCS have come from T1 pipeline.
@@nikitamarynich1794 yet T1 did better than them at every international tournament and even won last year with one of the highest win rates of any worlds winner while having the hardest worlds run ever. Also any pro will trade 10 domestic titles for even just 1 world title. Unfortunately a pleb like you wouldn’t understand the prestige that comes with winning a world title.
You're comparing a team that's been together for over 2 years now (and has allowed different GenG rosters to take almost every domestic final) to multiple teams that are only together for one year and all peak higher than T1. 2023 JDG, 2024 BLG, 2024 GenG would all be racking up international titles if the orgs could afford to keep those teams together for 2+ years, yet it's somehow GenG that has won 4 consecutive LCK titles directly against T1. T1 has only won 1 international and 1 LCK in the entire time they've been together. Depending on what LPL teams make it to worlds, T1 might not even be top 4 at world's this year (power rankings, not final standings, bad format at world's for rankings) and yet somehow it's hating on them to say they've underperformed expectations, when in reality saying they underperformed means we agree they SHOULD have won a lot more. It's literally saying they could have been the best team of all time but failed to execute, it's not an insult it's just the results
Same as Knight, if anything Knight has been on even better rosters than Chovy has and only has 1 MSI title to show for it which even though he got MVP, the real reason that team even was on track for the golden road was cause of how many games Ruler carried.
Hopium tank completely full we're ready to 12-0 the rest of the tournament
Good luck emperors
@@teraformerr ❤
LDR
YEEEES I KNEW YOU COULD DO IT
@@teraformerr
G2 believers , G2 army
Im just here to listen to Thorin flame Noah for losing to Yeon.
Yeon has been really good for awhile now just been slept on by a lot of people and Thorin is right Noah has been exposed. A lot of European ADs get exposed though it's why Hans Sama didn't do well in NA it's the weakest position in the region even worse than top imo.
@@Jose-cr3zn Firstly Yeon is trash. Secondly European ADs are generally pretty decent. Hans didnt do well in NA because TL were a dumpster fire org and team.
ADs in EU are actually good, we just did not send the bests. Hans is top 3 but Ice and Carzzy outperformed him. We may not find again Perkz/Rekkles but Yeon beating Noah does not mean anything.
@@Jose-cr3zn He is better than he was, but for international scene he is mega trash
Funny how Yeon started to be decent right as Core turned back into a world-class support....@@Jose-cr3zn
thank god for Chronicler for actually being the one of the only analysts on the desk offering legit analysis in some of these series, the amount of meme quotes and one-liners half of these clowns go for EVERY game
"I‘M NOT LOCKED IN HERE WITH YOU - YOU‘RE LOCKED IN HERE WITH ME"
NA so deep NRG didn't even make it to MSI. Let's go!
NA is the most competitive region where any team can win while LCK and LPL are pretty much locked top heavy
@@ftu2021 Only because most of the teams are garbage and will run it randomly.
Monte talking about Bel'Veth is 100% spot on. Everyone tunneling on Hans' item choices while they had a champion in the jungle literally more useless than a cannon minion in these teamfights.
The champ got turbo fucked in the lvl 1, and BelVeth is a minion from behind. That's why a Xin Zhao or Viego would have been better picks there, even if they want to go for the lvl 1 invade. The champs are useful even if that lvl 1 goes poorly
Belveth got turbofucked at level 1 and then cant do anything. Hans not building LDR whilst being the main frontline killer on his team and being gifted a 4 kill lead from the start of the game is omega troll... like literally if he had built LDR, the entire game changes because he could actually deal with Ksante.
they legit sacked belveth for bot lane. Bel dies at grubs and its over. Jinx WAS the one to carry that game. Nobody kills ksante but him. Cope
Cannon minion catching strays
Faker was 2nd best mid in lck during spring split, so it would be hard to argue he wasnt top 5 during spring split. He is having bad tournament but that doesnt remove his spring split but if you ask thorin he is just bad because he isnt as good as the number 1 and 2 mid laners in the world he quite possible could have been 3rd this spring. Thorin's blind hate just too much.
Because Thorin measures him to the Faker Goat. Faker isn't that player anymore, he's still freaking good and one of the best in the world, just not the undisputed best anymore
i mean he was better than zeka, shoemaker, and bdd… is that really that impressive?
I know TL isn't gonna win shit but what gives me hope for this team is that they've continued to improve, particularly Yeon. He was pretty terrible last year. This year, he stepped up a lot during regular season, then even more in playoffs, and then again so far at MSI. He's shown that he can learn new champions pretty quickly. I think that growth is really promising and I think the team really can do something with Yeon long term. APA I'm not sold on unless he massively improves the champion pool, but hey. If someone in LCS can actually properly play Lucian Nami, that's a huge draft advantage.
Whereas I think this trip massively hurts Flyquest and their confidence going forward, I think it will have done the opposite for TL. I think summer will just come down to TL vs C9.
Grab your beers and popcorns, and when Thorin says, "The joke is" - take a sip.
Now now, Xiaohou was actually a big Mechanical carry for a good period, his corgi was game winning, his Taliyah was game breaking, his Zoe was really dangerous. That era was just overshadowed by Uzi then being subbed in .
Cool was also a big Mechanical carry, even post season 4, he was cracked his last two seasons
I love that esports has answered what happened to the Ship of Theseus
it is so tough to see the narratives be crowbarred in this MSI, even Dagda was doing it a bit with some BLG points, but Drakos and Jatt seem to be the biggest narrative enjoyers
I’m not a fan of any region or team, I am just a fan of whoever is playing the best League of Legends in the world. And right now, that just happens to be Team Liquid.
"Faker is the Korean APA" 💀💀☠☠
this sounds so crazy on so many levels. I almost died laughing
its just the thorin faker hate cauze he is on knights D.
Thorin agrees with monte's take about faker after calling him korean apa lol
Based and Real
Career wise no, but at the moment yeah he is looking like korean APA.
The trash talk for NA is now just that the 6th best NA team is still > EU
Hahaha
@@turnermarius4471why? We aren’t the ones who lost
@@Cornincarnate well at least our second seed didn't get stomped by a minor region :D
@@nuf4052 True. Lost to NA which is even worse
Tbh if the level 1 on game 5 between g2 and t1 goes the other way i think it would have been a complete different story
Yeah, I think G2 is getting overhyped here. They had a close series against an underperforming Faker and a T1 that seems a bit lost. I’m expecting TOP to 3-1 or 3-0 them. Creme’s even low performance will be enough to neutralize Caps and JL/Meiko are going to do work in the bot lane. Teams that do creative things to win matches have a hard time going very far in long tournaments because cheese and weird angles get figured out pretty quickly. If they do make it work though, big props to their coaching staff and the players for their flexibility.
@@zohairkhan5755Your analysis is nonsensical, Creme has a "low performance" yet can "neutralise Caps" something that Faker (playing better than Creme right now) was struggling to do?
Jackylove/Meiko will do the work, we need to look at the top side however, BB/Yike/Caps all look extremely strong.
@zohairkhan5755 tbh I was making the opposite point D: I think if the level one works out, they have a big chance of winning that game. I completely disagree with your reasoning on tes vs. g2, but funnily enough, I also believe that tes will 3-1 g2. My predicton is that the top side will get ahead significantly, but not enough to put jkl and meiko in the dirt and come mid game tes botlane is going to blow up g2 (to my disappointment since I am a eu baby 😢)
@@zohairkhan5755cringe t1 fanboy over here
Your take is based on something so weak like a building on sand that it does not even warrant a counter argument @@zohairkhan5755
Yes Lyric was amazing!!!!!!!!!!
I bet on TL to beat FNC, those odds were too juicy
So is KC just speedrunning becoming the new TSM by signing Canna? They have already thrown one very good coach and one of the most talented players ever under the bus to protect their franchise players, they have no money but are signing way-past-their-prime imports, have cultivated one of the most unhinged fanbases in Europe, have an unlikable owner who's way to involved with the roster despite obviously lacking the knowledge and constantly complain about things being unfair (in their case it's 'racism', with TSM it was import rules). The only part they are missing is the one where TSM was at least pretty successful in their domestic tier 1 league for a few years.
. TSM had crazy success before. KC is just the worst org LEC has ever seen
that's why I said the only part KC is missing is the domestic success TSM has had in the beginning. They just skipped all that and only looked at the last years of TSM 😄
@@THEkullerpuller TSM were toxic whole way tho :D
@@radekhruby142 true 😄 but KC has that part down perfectly 😄 they even have their own Reginald and a franchise player with way too much sway in the organization despite being a mediocre player at best 😄
@@THEkullerpuller Bjerg was not mediocre bro
Yall are killing it with the new sponsors!
Ye Caedrel would reference lck and lpl all the time as he was casting lec.
Once Gen g locked Ashe I was worried Lehends dont play Ashe in lck he tried once, but did not work out, but man his Ashe against TES was clean. Gen g vs BLG is like Khabib vs Conor hype at this point.
APA and Yeon won Worlds you heard it here first
Mate...
Hey im a t1 fans and agree with most of your takes, but making almost every final that this roster has played in, I dont know if thats ever happened in league has to account for something, LCK 1st, msi 2nd, lck 2nd, worlds 2nd, lck 2nd msi 3rd lck 2nd worlds 1st and now lck 2nd. Like People call t1 a meta team but this amount of consistency is insane and the clutch factor was missing.
Its their definition of winning everything which they only hold T1 to those standards, but overall if you take the aggregate placement through multiple tournaments and seasonal splits they consistently place higher than any other team. Yes the meta has to be hit them right to be the best but that is the case for any team that wins. If you take the top LPL and top LCK teams over the past 3 years. Yes they have had different rosters but looking at the top teams here are the results from the last 3 years going from ( spring 2024, worlds 2023, summer 2023, msi 2023, spring 2023, worlds 2022, summer 2022, msi 2022, spring 2022, worlds 2021 ( BLG: 1st, 3rd-4th, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, DNQ, 9th-10th, DNQ, 7th-8th; DNQ; JDG: 3rd, 3rd-4th, 1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd-4th, 1st, 4th, DNQ, DNQ; EDG: 16th, 5th-6th, 3rd, DNQ, 3rd, 5th-8th, 3rd, DNQ, 7th-8th, 1st; LNG: 7th-8th, 5th-8th, 2nd, DNQ, 5th-6th, DNQ, 4th, DNQ, 5th-6th, 12th-13th; RNG: 14th, DNQ, 9th-10th, DNQ, 7th-8th, 5th-8th, 5th-6th, 1st, 1st, 5th-8th; GEN G: 1st, 5th-8th, 1st, 4th, 1st, 3rd-4th, 1st, DNQ, 2nd, 3rd-4th; T1: 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 3rd-4th; DK: 4th, 9th-11th, 5th, DNQ, 5th, 5th-8th, 4th, DNQ, 3rd, 2nd. ) JDG and GEN G have more 1st but also have lower placements at same tournaments compared to T1.
T1 isn't hands down the best but they are certainly in the conversation with JDG and GEN G over this time period.
@@Drdakr12 true also the fact that this roster has stayed for together longer makes them have more oppurtunities, but i would not say geng becsause even though thexy won every lck the internationals were horrible, even if u say 4th msi, quarter and semis worlds 23 and 22, i think t1 was more consistent
The way Thorin shits his pants over a couple rando's opinions on league e-sports is getting old.
I mean he is getting to that age where he will start needing to wear adult diapers since his blood pressure medicine must be working overtime
Dom and him do this shit all the time. "Everyone says/said this!!" ,literally one dude did.
And we all still watch it lol.
@@Shreddasaurus The problem is this "one dude" that said it, instantly has 10,000 people who will parrot the idea, ironic or otherwise
@@Protomango any proof or did that come out of your ass?
Bindu the Mystic here. I'm mysticking right now with the machine elves. D&D rulebook 1.5 --- TRDL; I'm salty right now, do you have an open couch session around 12 to 2 PM Central time? Consult the aboriginal Asians to work that out and get back to me. Thank you in advance and also TY to Kobe for the Allyoop. When is the freeze pipe coming back? Need to give one to Rand so she can smoke the pipe for creativity so I won't get banned from X like Twitter. TY again x 2.
I'm not trying to con you, nor extortion at all. I'm actually broke pun intended 100% the truth. That is not right though, but those Girls be Trouble (pun). There's an Aphrodite in the mix too along with Zeus showing you just a small sample size of what Ale on EDG would do with you on Camille. Ask Bin, it's his world according to skojiz. Gotta go again, I'm battling Danielle's Trickster again. Edit: You can Paypal Rand it instead if it'll fix her "Art" that wouldn't get me banned from X like it did on Twitter.
Damn, after trashing TL for the entire season, Thorin is now super butt-hurt lol
Yep thorin hates when na wins
You guys dont have ears??? He said it was pretty funny TL beat fnc.. I think thoorin hates fnc more then TL
@advancedapathy1531 this is just sour.. did u watch the games tl vs t1? Wasnt TL lossing winable games??
Ofc he said the 4 korean thing, that was TL whole branding when they made this team
I don't even like T1 but holy hell this T1 hate is ridiculous
they got triggered by 1 t1 fan so now they hate them with their gut. literal manchild behavior.
I think it's weird that with lane swaps returning you don't see any of these top lanes aren't helping accelerate their junglers
Thorin the kinda guy to talk the most shit ever then act like na fans didn’t have the right to talk shit back after destroying fnc haha
this. eu fans always cry about na talking shit after talking mad shit about na. can't take it but love to dish it out. it fits his friend group as well. dom and ls are the exact same as thorin. manchildren who cry whenever someone shittalks them, but made careers off of shittalking other people.
and finally we got our wish!!!! GENG vs BLG lets goooo Knight vs Chovy Banger
Chovy vs Knight is tge most forced (Knight)fan driven rivalry/comparison ever.
It's not a thing.
Last season, Ruler - who arguably had the strongest ADC season ever - was the superstar of JDG.
This season Bin is the superstar of BLG and Elk+On - who were the best botlane in the world in spring - were the consistent carries.
I had a good chuckle when the broadcast switched from the featured matchup being "Chovy vs Knight" to being "Chovy vs Bin" in the grand finals.
I think that says enough about Knight.
Chovy vs.Knight giving some Jiren vs. Goku energy.
I’m just here to watch Thorin run laps around talking about NA winning something.
Ya it’s so cringe he’s such a baby
Objectively and in theory should it be noteworthy that the LCS 1st seed beat the LEC 2nd seed? Of course not. But this is lolesports we're talking about. There is nothing noteworthy about NA, seeding is often handled poorly by Riot, and an LCS team will never win Worlds - whereas an LEC team has had the opportunity to do so twice, and continues to lord that over NA fans' heads.
So yes, Team Liquid dumpstering Fnatic in 2024, the year of our Lord, is memorable and worthy of gloating. Have at it NA fans - but try to go easy on EU fans a bit. They're not used to misery and defeat as much as us, so they're a little bit shocked and sensitive right now.
has had that opportunity one of those times by beating an NA team lol, only to get absolutely fisted both times. EU peak is still slightly better than NA and doesn't matter compare to lck/lpl
@@evilkingsteryeah, "slightly".
THORIN YOU ARE TOOOOXXXXXXIIIIIIIICCCCCCC....EU lost, get over it....
Love it when Thorin is says out of pocket shit
Maybe I have the wrong read but T1 banned naut everytime they picked senna tham which was on red side so maybe they were scared of the naut first pick and keria can actually play it but i'm not sure his naut def didn't look that good last time I saw it
another good content! please create more! we love this, also love the ads talks you guys have, hope to see more of it, you guys rock as always!~
and it's TRUE, as a caedrel fans we know that he grind it well~!
The real dream for milky way is Lng with scout
Danielle: Don't hate the Trickster, hate your Game. You are mischievous and naughty - Red Card Proof, and let your team down almost as much as Katie Hopkins and her Wife "Mavis" Sandra Bernhard (not the one who ran it down more than BB on Roseanne) on The Apprentice UK. Do not think for one second that you can ever fool me, that goes to all you potential interns too.
As much as Faker's champion pool has been exposed from getting targetted, I think Keria's decline in his overall gameplay might be a more long term problem for T1. It may look like Faker is the weakest player given how much he's been running it down, but he's also arguably their highest impact player. The other players on the roster aren't exactly deep in their champ pools in this meta either. Coming into MSI, I actually think Faker was the best player in T1 this season. My favorite player on the roster, Gumayusi, while consistent hasn't exactly been peaking and his champions are mostly standard pairings with Keria. Zeus seems to just be TF, K'sante, and Zac with varying results. Oner while decent mostly wants to play Xin Zhao. And then there's Keria.... Like Faker, you expect him to have a champion ocean, but the mechanical spark that he had isn't there right now and having a wider champion pool with less impact is worse than having a strong core champion pool but more limited options. Like why ban Keria if his impact is barely there. Let's ban Faker because we know he's the biggest threat if given his good champs.
For some reason everybody refuses to admit that Keria is a massively streaky player. This is hardly the first tournament where he looks WAY worse than expectations.
Keria has been playing well. He saved t1 many times this msi in skirmishes.
@Cornincarnate keria when he isn't playing adcs is beatable delight and mickyx, and On were outplaying him. Also On has gotten better with adc support picks so i don't think it'll be a keria exclusive strength for very long.
YAPA THE EU MIDLANERS DADDY
cope harder
YAPTAIN AMERICA o7
Yeon > Yapa
I hope you guys are wrong
I don’t think we have seen APA and Yeon’s ceilings yet
Sure, we have all seen a dozen challenger players bomb out, but APA and Yeon look to be steadily improving
I mean hell, they are playing with two world champions and an LCK veteran… surely they would have to learn some great stuff just through osmosis…
T1 is probably going to shit stomp TL, but I love to see these two carries improving
TL vs G2 will happen at MSI just watch
We EU fans just dubbed TL as LCK 5th/6th seed with GAPA/YAPA since they beat Fnatic and also their is big gap between our LEC 1st seed and 2nd seed not to take anything from fnatic they did good and got 2nd seed afterall but reality is we are just run by a 1 team region or 1 man region for those who dont know.
Poppy: I will not only block you but Ghost you and I'm not kidding if you play Grande's "break up with your girlfriend" one more time. Cluster Headaches in this World is nothing compared to what's in the Mysticking World. In fact, you paypal Rand and she'll ban you from X even too if you keep it up as we all know you are an X W.
Good Goddess, although Keria is more cute than you. Next time I'll put on my metaphysical Stacey Adams boots. Queen BB aka Fake French Girl aka Little Person (in a good way) get ready.
This episode aged like milk. Preface this with I am a fan of the show and not flaming. But every single point you made against T1 they seemingly disproved in the G2 lower bracket game. It's like khoma was listening and rangled the kids to play standard and "keria you are playing naut, get over it".
gonna be hilarious when g2 gets clapped by TES
yes
TES has always been shit, they looked awful in playoffs. Now they got clapped by G2 😂
@@Depporas
@@Zed-ch9fg Can't read anything about T1 in this thread u virgin
Lmao Monty burns DL and promotes products this man is a goat lol.
also a loser.
2:48:30 I'd say only losing one bo5 and getting eliminated is a pretty shit feeling after literally every other team also lost a bo5 and was still in the tourney
I like how it's "we gotta have the 2 best teams in the finals" how about making sure the best team wins?
Monte constantly says its not an advantage to lose, no one is saying it is (at least, not intelligent people). The problem is you're taking away the advantage of NOT losing- idk if he noticed, the losers bracket team isn't affected by this
Bindu again, Roccat Grab Girl says what's up. She's in a good mood now finally accepting the Sega Dolphin genre, cause I won't budge on N64 Golden Threads.
Before I go back mysticking collecting pimp points. I'm going to gamble on the games. Do you think Queen Broken Blade's simp and rumored BF from Nat-Cofee will run it down more than Grande's last 3 albums?
I checked out her discography but need a Shaman in your couch now, but the machine elves D&D rulebook 2.0 can fuck with it, 'tis is life but like lee sinn it's the rule if you hit the Q.
I'm banned right now and bored cause in our world I took the 2nd Q and Truck Guard said it did 200% damage or something?!?! I'm thinking of giving up on the game now cause I'm so triggered.
TRDL; I'm very salty and now bitter so scratch last post and I'm open for a couch session till 3:23 PM Central. TY x3. Back to shaman shit grinding on trying to battle Danielle Van der Cun..... Trickster using my magic stick unlike humid. Loki, pun intended: The Church Of Chocy was founded on it.
Is babbel better than Duolingo?
Avelino - Cassius Clay
Cusco- Ghost Dance ----- Jamiroquai Corner Of The Earth. Tyson Fury, I'm coming for the Gypsy King Title for real for real. Best of 10 Muay Thai, Kick Boxing, MMA, Boxing. The only issue that I'd have would be Boxing, but I'd hook up with Max Kellerman and Sweat Pea your ass. MMA would be a lock with Leila Mcfarland, Blanchfield and the Warrior Princess (The Romanian one from Can) who will also teach our Girls too. Along with China, take notes sloppy watered down MMA our Girls are coming too.
Thorin must not know what GOAT means, A T stands for all time, not right now. Chovy and knight are definately better right now. Although to be honest the fact that both of them are here makes it harder for either of them to take this title because they are so competitive with each other. At his peak faker felt peerless. You can make the argument to have chovy or knight now shadowbox vintage faker but its not reliable because so amny things have changed so much fundamental knowledge has been passed along players things that pro players used to complete and drop draws are now being executed by bronze players. You cannot realistically shadowbox from such different eras in the game so you have to compare them in their eras of dominance. Peak is important in GoAT conversation but duration and longevity is also a factor.
I agree that "GOAT is all about looking at plays with name plates off and seeing which is best". The problem with that is I dont think Faker wins that. I think nameplates off, Chovy or Knight has to get it. Faker gets it purely on titles and intangibles, but Chovy and Knight have shown individual skill gaps against their peers that I think excede what Faker was doing in season 3. Which I think is even more impressive than what faker was doing in season 3, because as point out, the overall level is the highest it's ever been, and they keep consistantly doing it while Faker hasn't been able to since season 7. And more importantly, has Faker, at any point in time during the most competitive years of LoL, been the best individual player in the world? There's definitely been times when Chovy and Knight haven't, I think for large parts of 2023 Ruler had a very good shout for that title, but Faker hasn't come close.
Also regarding "expoerts/people in the scene generally dont have omegahot takes cos other experts would dogpile them" I saw Doublelift literally say that dumpstering Faker in game 1 would be the highlight of MSI winner (probably soon to be 2x MSI winner) and multiple times LPL winner Knight's entire career. Also that FNC are better than top, predominantly from a bot gap.
To answer the "Has Faker, at any point in time during the most competitive years of LoL, been the best individual player in the world?" Question: Yes he has. That was from Summer Season 5 to Worlds Season 7. Right until the moment, when Rulers Varus Ult hit him... When he reached 3 straight Worlds finals and the gap between Faker and the rest was just... well, let me explain:
There was this completly broken Champ in Season 5 named reworked Ryze. Everyone played it and looked good on it... well, except Faker, who didn't care. Then Riot nerfed it into the ground. They literally gave that champ the Yuumi treatment and said "Don't play it!". It had like a 42 % Winrate in Solo Que on that Worlds Patch.
And that was exactly the moment, Faker decided to play this champ (and G4, a Wildcard team, picked it against Faker,). He went 5W-0L and picked it in the finals in a Lulu mid meta. No one else touched it. Faker then gets a solo kill in a 1vs2 against the RoxTigers.
Think about that for a second: He could pick the arguably worst champion on the patch, that didn't fit into the meta at all and that noone else even looked at in the Worlds Final and he dominated on it.
Just look for "Faker Ryze highlights Worlds 2015" and remember, that nobody back then understood, how Faker dealt that much damage on this champ. The other players had 4 weeks to practise the pick, after Faker had shown it early, but no one managed to pick it up.
Oh and in 2016, he won MSI, IEM, Worlds and one of 2 LCK Splits. The year after the Ryze gap was even more succesfull. Then he dragged 4 corpses to the Worlds Final on Galio in 2017. And then he got hit by the Varus ult and never recovered...
@@PassivesAbseits Faker at his peak used to lock in shit like Riven and Master Yi mid and would be solo killing you under your turret. Players like Chovy, Knight and countless other top tier pro players don’t even exist today if it wasn’t for Faker revolutionizing the entire game and being an inspiration to infinite number of young players who aspired to become pros. That’s why real reason why Faker’s GOAT status is untouchable by anyone else.
It's pretty arguable that Faker was the best player in the world during 2023 Worlds, or 2022 LCK Spring where he had an even better split than Chovy.
@50:45 are you not also describing g2 but praising them instead
I mean saying T1 shouldnt be given 3rd in tier lists because they havent delivered is abit sus, they have made the past 2 worlds finals and were 3rd at MSI in 2023 and 2nd at MSI 2022
The one you should be arguing about is GenG who were ranked 1st on most tier list going into all the international events and haven't made a single finals, 4th at MSI 2023, 3-4 at worlds 2022, and 5-8 at Worlds 2024, maybe instead of saying T1 don't deserve the 3rd rank they should be asking why the first seed from LCK gets a number 1 or two spot.
I think the funny fact about T1's resume is that 2023 statistically was the 2nd best team of the year behind JDG. Gen G should be questioned more for sure as #1 LCK seed 2 years in a row was considered frontrunners both times but the international factor gets handwaved every single time. Even LCK watchers don't trust Gen G (more like Chovy teams really), because of the demons of the past.
So T1 should just be no.1 in tier lists at every international tournament because of history... not because of how they are actually playing right now.
@@PeoplePleaser578 have zero clue how you came to this conclusion. all i was doing was highlight the fact that T1 has delivered on the ranking of 3rd at the previous international events and GenG haven't. thorin comment was we should look at T1 3rd ranking when his comment should be why GenG has always been 1st or 2nd and have never delivered. T1 were pretty constantly ranked 3rd coming into the current MSI, if they beat TL they will at worse be 4th or could get 3rd. but i dont think they have a chance at 1st or 2nd
5:24 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 W
Love you both and have listened to SI for years, but come on guys, “why isn’t everyone losing on purpose for losers bracket advantage” is such a strawman, who would ever admit in an interview they threw a game, and nobody can play to lose a bo5 without it being obvious - which again would lead to them being banned. Respect you both but that was a dumb take.
This is the funniest show on the internet.
I used to watch this show every week. It just has become so tiresome listening to the flaming of NA or T1 or how stupid the viewers are. Its hard to listen to, cant finish.
Take a break for a few months or a year, their content almost didn't change, youre just fed up.
@@ShoorfLonelyLokly that's the problem. they're still yapping about the same shit and beating the same dead horse. old dogs can't learn new tricks. that's why their twitter following and this show's viewership has stagnated for the past 5 years.
Right now you can say Caps is 2nd / 3rd best mid at the tournament. If he performs vs creme tomorrow it will go a long way
1. Chovy 2. Knight>=caps 3. Creme 4. APA 5. Faker. Sad but true
@@Leeacademy2024 what sad about the list?
@@Leeacademy2024 thorin fans are the most delusional people you cna find
@@Leeacademy2024 1. Chovy.
2. Knight
3. Caps = Faker (Both have had some good and some bad)
4. Creme
5. YAPA
@simone-fz9hl faker at 5 is a bit dramatic but his inability to play Tristana Aurelion sol and corki literally put him bottom of the barrel for this meta
TY, Queen Broken Blade with the paypal in that World and not giving any to Rand because we both know that'd be hopeless. Don't get it twisted, it's only cause I fuc* Poppy IRL because she's a little trickster yordle Goddess like most of my roster. If you want to win then double of what you put in but it's a good start. TY again x5.
3x times now. Only because she's a piece of a** and not a half-orc like your GF.
G2 losses the final VS BLG :D
Moral of the story: Life imitates Art. Not the Rand kind however, and I want to make that very clear. Her "Art" got me banned from twitter for real for real.
I was joking about the last thing about that Troll or Half-Orc, not sure. I'm still triggered/confused on everything. I'm talking in the 2nd person with two accounts, to two guys, and on youtube MSI in real time also, but WHY?@?@??@ Did the Lee Sinn's? 2nd Q do 200% AD damage and suspend me in our mystic world. Rules are rules though.. Randbling here.....
Trdl; Laure: My bad hun about calling you a little person. I checked my D&D version 1.8 along with the Gamers Nexus dude aka... Your Earth's Jesus because your 7 years of trial and tribulation or tribbles is going down for real, along with the Metis 8th fire. Anyways, randbling again trdl; she's a Gnome actually, not a little person. Again my bad Laure. It's been real.
Tricksters be Tricksters
I'm now rich AF thanks to QueenBB's Simp
Coyote Makes This/Our World
I have unlimited pimp points
Shaman in your arms
Get the book Night Watchman on Amazon. Not the first one that pops up, but the sci-fi one that is literally top of the food chain and won all the sci-fi awards that are almost prestige as the Man Booker Award. Then go to his/her website and pre-order a signed copy Oct. 1st.
I'm rich AF right no. Thank you Broken Blade, but not as broken as your mental right now for getting f'd by two Gods at the same time. I wans't messing around with the price and Poppy be Poppy.
---- T1 vs G2 just started and i'm typing this. I'm such a fuc*en idiot but I'd rather collect my pimp points and or Goddess and Angels or Angles??? Again Skjioz confused me and I'm juggling Girls litke turret shots now.
Props to Gen G and Arnold. Get it for Chovy and he'll become the GOAT.
F me. Queen BB just got first kill For real. Maybe I need to edit this later because he paid, so if you read this in real time and I dont' edit it, I didn't mean it at this time.
TheShy on G2 for Summer. That will print more $$$$ than Twisted Fate ever could. G2 at the 02 for Worlds to rep and take home EU their first trophy. Jankos and Wunder being on G2 staff for content and parties on parties. They know it's the last run with this ironic group as they hit their peak.
My point. They don't have a shot to win World's with BB. There can be only one BB ask Laure for real. Broken is good with it too because he'd love to join that group too (give him some games) because it'll be the best moments of their lives while changing them at the same time.
keep glazing g2 lmao, can't wait top esports wrecked them , g2 is a team that gets lucky once every 5 years and monte/thorin loves gawk gawk and glaze g2.
Yea. Personally I despise and hate G2. I also hate how EU casters especially Medic and Vedius always go mega overboard when EU teams are playing and they do something good In the game, but when the other team does something good they don't hype it up as much or at all
hahaha
TES so trash they can only beat NA 1st seed
You okay there?
@@hdkonvick6299
Cope more, G2 didn't let them breath remember what DK did to g2 2021 they learn from the best. Cry me an entire ocean.
Coyote can and may make this world but I'm also tied to the Spider --- Great Courses Philosophy: Great Mythologies of the World 57 - Native American Tricksters (we're the good kind, but he talks about the South Tricksters in there and blends them a bit) also Great Courses History: Ancient Civilizations of North America 07 - Medicine Wheels of the Great Plains. That's Me/Us. Hoop Of Life & White Buffalo's along with bringing fun/sexy back.
I or possibly one day "We"? if you Grande: Saturn Returns Interlude. I have our true Earth Angels? TY Skjiz on lock and protected, trust me and we will do damage on a scale that you can't compute but AI probably can and will one day. We will be making our own Olympics soon no matter what, it's your choice if you want to join us or not.
❤❤❤ 1:41:58
The best SK Telecom commercial would be T1 getting DDOS'd mid-scrim, so Faker pulls out his "TMBrand Telecom Relevant Phone" and turns on his hotspot, the boys all connect, they win the game. Thumbs up at screen.
Faker just trying to get to lose bracket because it's a buff to play more games going thru lower bracket. Upper bracket gets you less practice. (This is sarcasm.)
doublelift is a clown but i think he just loves to double down on his trolling just cause of everyone getting triggered but it doesn’t even come off as trolling and just idiot behavior
Didn’t Faker say in a press conference or interview after the BLG match that he’s still dealing with his wrist injury? I don’t think anyone could play A Sol while dealing with that
What? A Sol is dirt cheap mechanically.
AZIR CORKI NIGHTMARE WORLD HAHAHAHAHAAH
Jesus Christ Thorin is insufferable
Lol you still engage
@@falconforcex tried to listen, couldn’t make it past 5 minutes lol
Then leave bro. We dont wanna see your lame ass letting the world know how much you hate Thorin 🤡🤡
No one asked you to click the video
@@nc_aravindan yes usually you have to click the video in order for the video to play
Love seeing Thorin mald trying to say that NA isn't as good as EU. In the past 3 years only 4 western teams have made it to quarters, C9 (2021) Mad (2021) Rouge (2022) NRG (2023). Both regions suck EU fans need to get over it
Historically EU has been superior to NA in any way possible. MSI title, 2 worlds Finals, better head to head. Yes, both regions are trash compared to the asians, but there still isnt any valid Point to say that NA isnt even more trash
@mihya5954 I didn't say historically. I said right for 3 years in a row both regions were roughly the same.
If EU is a one team region why does this TL win suddenly count. It doesn't beause of the Narrative that NA fans are now trying to rewrite to look better. Unless TL beat T1 and G2.
Really sad that doublelift has become a total lolcow now
Always was, people grew up.
I mean that's what thorin is as well.
Thorin gigachad
Knight vs Chovy
Bo1 Knight win
BO3 chovy win
Bo5 ????????
BO3 is not countable Asian Team like best every lane except mid
zeus kanavi ruler keria ?
@@yigitkazanoglu1549 lol just said you have double standard. If Asian line up is not "countable" so is that HLE line up when Chovy lose bo1 look like countable for you ?
@@Casualplayer1306 not hle is drx
Doran- pyosik-chovy-deft-keria vs
369-karsa-knight-jackey-yuyanjia
@@yigitkazanoglu1549 ah yes my bad , but i should remind you deft got health problem right before lck playoff that made him play like shit entire playoff and half of next year
I have arrived to listen to Thorin and Monte whine about how TL vs FNC is not indicative of NA being better than EU.
EDIT: Yep, knew it. Not even 5 minutes.
Well, NA isn't better than EU.
you wasted your time listening to a video with the only purpose of wanting to get mad at it. lol
@@agronnakNA slapped EU in the last bo5 including g2 so yes na is better now
NA wouldn’t consistently beat G2. We are not better overall than EU. I think we definitely have the potential to be better but once the consistency is there we can say that.
Going by that same logic, PCS > NA.
Just like how their 1st seed beat NA 2nd seed.
TES would 3-0 speedrun G2.
The good thing is: we'll find it out
cope
Either way should be a banger
@@jacob2808 what cope? g2 are underdogs...
Hmm i will remind u tomorrow. Little sunshine./
NA vs EU is so funny because it's historically a tier 2 region vs a tier 2.5 region. At least in Dota NA vs EU both regions have won TIs and the beef is like 30% of leagues.
It reminds me of the meme with the 3rd place guy popping champagne.
in dota eu dominates everyone cause in dota you need more brain room to decide what to do and improve also has more macro strategies than league ever has
thorin going on a 20-minute rant about NA to start off the episode is precisely why we Americans shit talk EU. It's fun, hilarious when you get a reaction. These EU guys care so much about this shit like its their life. Most angry fucks I've ever seen online are EU league fans and it's entertaining as shit lmao
@@casualrider983 lol facts 😂
@@alexandernaydenov7539Explain to me how is it possible for a macro heavy game to be stalled to 90 minutes and end up in some dumb 5 man stealth backdoor?
@@ShoorfLonelyLokly cause eu > everyone in dota my explain in strategy eu > asians
I think it's time to call Worlds 2023 what it really was for T1: a fluke.
I mean JDG were the best team in the world in 2023.. wasn't even close.. next is probably blg..and then geng.. the meta was perfect for T1
Also what's crazy is that the other 4 players turn into bots when faker is not on the team.. or pressured
here we go another podcast where you shit on faker for hours just because u get triggered by random's people comments on the internet("t1 fans"), and the rest of it is insulting everybody for the tiniest reasons; it's not that funny anymore
"See guys I told you G2 were top 8 in the world!!!! They....lost to T1 and beat some crappy minor region team.....see!!"
Conversely I wonder if PSG taking BLG to 5 games makes them a top 8 team as well 🙄🙄
yea if g2 can't beat a crippled t1? idk if they can beat the lpl
top 4❤
@@turnermarius4471 props to them hans sama beats the allegations
Lel
T1 should have tried to get Peanut. They need a different jungler to do well consistently. T1 have never won in standard metas, Won LCK in COVID meta, Won Worlds with random ranged support meta switch in worlds playoffs. Keria can't play normal champs and Zeus can't play normal Top champs. But their jungler just isn't stable enough to get this roster consistent good play.
TIL covid was a Riot balance team induced meta, great logic.
Caps is by default miles ahead of faker rn because even if caps' mages were only on par with fakers level atm, he still can whip out the melee mids too which faker clearly cant atm.
lol default miles ahead and yet still couldnt beat faker
@@evilkingster evil kingster :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D that must be the cringiest name ever. edit: I'm not kidding. I dare you to beat him.
@@evilkingster he raped faker in that series
@@evilkingster Even the biggest faker glazers should not be able to look at his performance this tournament and think he is anywhere near the top 5 mids, this is just sad to read 💀
NRG got lucky that day G2 is and will always be better
2:45:00 Outside of Knight and Chovy, what non-Western Mid laner would anyone be threatened by. I'm sorry, but outside of Knight and Chovy, all the top midlaners are Westerners. And even Caps is in the same conversation as Knight and Chovy. Caps, Jensen, APA, and Humanoid would all be above Faker and Creme.
CTE?
@@MrBahki Thank you for proving my point. You can’t name one Asian midlander outside of those two who people are threatened by.
@@dwil0311 Showmaker and bdd? Apa and Jensen are ass sadly and could never see them above faker or creme. In an hour we will see faker stomp apa
@@samzaiko2851 Interesting, considering we just watched APA be the better midlaner versus faker.
@@dwil0311 when the fk did that happen??? oh when t1 dumpstered tl?
T1 stans will always find a way to cope after every T1 loss. They're now claiming that MSI is irrelevant and LCK is only practice for Worlds 😂😂😂
they're not wrong tho. t1 got 2nd place 2022 and won worlds 2023. why the fk are you shittalking them you absolute fkin random?
2 silver players who don't understand the game
They would be lucky to be placed in silver
@@MrDespisedIconsomething you’ve never made it to
LPL = plumber region thats why t1 got so lucky in 2023 worlds, imagine if they faced caps smh
Is actually mindblowing that these guys hate on t1 because they didnt win more international titles. Like wtf??? JDG made one final in The Last 2 years( witch they won) GEN G NEVER made a final and t1 made 4 and won 1(Worlds 2023). No words...
did you listen to literally anything they said? T1 have the spending power to literally get the best Koreans in every single role if they wanted. nobody else in lck can do that. when you don't do that and then lose to fucking DRX in world finals then yeah its a fucking disappointment. use your brain
The difference is that GenG smacked T1 for 2.5 years and took all domestic titles.
@@mrbubbles188Monte specifically said T1 got lucky to win. Also T1 has never been that team to go and buy every biggest Korean superstar, they always have been an organization that strived for attracting the youngest top pros and to develop them which has been extremely successful considering how many great players who are not only competing in LCK but also in LEC and LCS have come from T1 pipeline.
@@nikitamarynich1794 yet T1 did better than them at every international tournament and even won last year with one of the highest win rates of any worlds winner while having the hardest worlds run ever. Also any pro will trade 10 domestic titles for even just 1 world title. Unfortunately a pleb like you wouldn’t understand the prestige that comes with winning a world title.
You're comparing a team that's been together for over 2 years now (and has allowed different GenG rosters to take almost every domestic final) to multiple teams that are only together for one year and all peak higher than T1. 2023 JDG, 2024 BLG, 2024 GenG would all be racking up international titles if the orgs could afford to keep those teams together for 2+ years, yet it's somehow GenG that has won 4 consecutive LCK titles directly against T1. T1 has only won 1 international and 1 LCK in the entire time they've been together. Depending on what LPL teams make it to worlds, T1 might not even be top 4 at world's this year (power rankings, not final standings, bad format at world's for rankings) and yet somehow it's hating on them to say they've underperformed expectations, when in reality saying they underperformed means we agree they SHOULD have won a lot more. It's literally saying they could have been the best team of all time but failed to execute, it's not an insult it's just the results
Thooorin just cant let it go that his Lebron aka Choke'vy keeps joining all these Superteams and cant win Worlds.
Thoorin aka ESPN keeps making excuses for Lebron aka Choke'vy. Sad
Same as Knight, if anything Knight has been on even better rosters than Chovy has and only has 1 MSI title to show for it which even though he got MVP, the real reason that team even was on track for the golden road was cause of how many games Ruler carried.
@@MrDespisedIcon Haha. Yea. Thoorin sure loves to ride the 2 LeBrons sacks.
Lebron is the goat buddy
@@OMAR-vk9pi Lmfao. Lmfaooo. No