I am quite happy that this is episode now does not need to exist. The Supreme Court struck this law down, ending the threat of video game censorship for the foreseeable future.
Yep :D although it would be fun to drive over to Sacramento and talk to them about how idiotic this law is, but, Luckily, the Supreme Court struck it down :D.
One thing that frustrates me so much when people claim "VIDEO GAMES CAUSE VIOLENCE!" is that that exact same argument can be applied to literally every other form of media in existence.
Cubit agreed,tho it might have some truth in it, I think a responsible parent could solve this easily, sadly not many kid has such a luxury, most kids violent is more related to bad environment and or bad parent
The only school shooter who played games at or above the average, played dance dance stardom. Violent people usually play LESS games on average. So yeah.
+TeeDubGaming Oh yes. I've learned more about history from historical strategy games than I've learned from history class. Europa Universalis IV has been my professor of early modern history.
The stay on target joke had me literally laughing out loud. You guys are not only great gaming minds but subtle masters of comedy. Keep up the great work!
Some kids mature faster than others and are easily mature enough way before 18. On the other hand, some kids take 60 years to mature. There is no standard you can set to tell if a kid is mature enough or not.
I wholeheartedly agree. I'm 14, and I'm one of the more mature, inquisitive, and sophisticated people I know in my age group. (By that I mean I've understood the complexities and intricacies of music and books since I was eleven, and I've been trying to apply that knowledge and interest to video games for the past year or so despite having played them for all of my life.) I think that, if I wanted to, I could play GTA or CoD and not be terribly affected by them, but I prefer not to, because I enjoy video games that stray from reality, usually in the direction of the comical or ridiculous, as my favorite game company at the moment is Nintendo due to the whimsical nature of nearly all of their games. They just put me in a good mood. I feel like, no matter what happens, hope is never truly lost and there's always another try. Even more so, I enjoy them because they often COMPLETELY stray from reality, and yet manage to create somewhat realistic environments and pull them off fantastically. For example, in LoZ: Majora's Mask, the moon has an enormous face on it that creates the sense of unease and dread, but is completely unreasonable. However, how the characters react to having destruction looming over their heads is very accurate to how people might react to that type of disaster. I mean, if you buy into the theory that the five areas of Termina are based on the five stages of grief (denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance) then the character reactions make perfect sense: they are responding to death in a way that fits their characters and the order that you meet them in.
Zoroark MI Normaly I would say you shouldnt talk about how mature you think you are but you actually do seem to have a very in depth perspective on the art of video games. We need more people like you.
TheAgentTexas I realized after writing that that I might have come off as a little self-centered. What I said wasn't meant to be any kind of definitive proof of my maturity or anything, it was only to point how my thoughts on music, books, and video games differ from most other people in my age group. P.S. Thank you. It means a lot to me.
Zoroark MI Ok, ya cause it did seem self centered even though I knew that wasnt ur intention. But ya essentially it comes down to parenting. Parents need to know enough about the industry so that they can make a good judgment on whether or not their kids should be able to play certain games. Unfortunately many parents play the either extreme by not letting them play anything all the way to letting 6 year olds play GTA.
TheAgentTexas It wasn't that my parents knew enough about the industry or anything, they just had the common sense to be careful what games they let me play. I grew up with the GameBoy Advance and the PS2, and one of my favorite games back then was The Incredible Hulk, in which you could seriously fling people into the ocean... Brilliant! Anyway, it didn't really affect me all that much, because it wasn't very violent, it was just comical. It was so exaggerated that it was funny. It wasn't that you were effectively killing people, it was that you were flicking them in the first place.
''minors have no way to reason'' So, if you turn 18, you instantly -POOF'' acquire reason? Heh, I know half a dozen of 11 yr old's who act more reasonable than some adults. *sigh
I think the age of 18 is more like a mark, at which point most young people have acquired some degree of reason and responsibility. This is something, that develops over time and of course no one believes, that there is this magical barrier where this is instantly happening. Same is true for every age restriction. Heck we even have this restriction on books (at least here in Germany). Same goes for Movies. Yes this is all still Art, but nevertheless it can be something, that is not for the eyes of at 10-year-old. And since more and more Parents seem to fail at shielding their children from (for their age) inappropriate content there should be some way to do this without the Parent.
derpotyrannus rex "so if you turn 18, you instantly -POOF' acquire reason?" Well, no, there's an entire year before a child turns 18 in which they're suddenly given the same punishments as an adult without the priveleges. You know, we call it being 17. It's essentially the final crucible, as you can suddenly be tried as an adult for a crime much easier than you could at any other age before. It's not necessarily a sudden bridge to reason, but rather a test of it. "Heh, I know half a dozen 11 yr olds who act more reasonable than some adults." Well, those are exceptions to the rule. Just because exceptions exist, that doesn't mean that the rule is invalid. I know a dozen 11 yr olds that could point out and correct every grammatical error in your comment, but that doesn't mean that all children can. In fact, generally, they can't. That dozen kids are just exceptions.
It is a widely accepted tenet of law that minors are distinct from adults, largely by lacking legal recognition of an ability to make informed decisions. Minors can't enter into contracts, buy or receive alcohol (except under guardian supervision in some states), buy or receive porn, or have sex. It's not at all absurd from a legal standpoint.
Well the worst lawyer in the world that is from a different country to the U.S can tell you that completely controlling what people say, buy, do, sell, create and express is unconstitutional and immoral. Add to that the fact that California was randomly insulting all of their citizens and in fact all Americans saying that they couldn't make rational decisions then their is no case to present, this would of lasted a day.
+One ShotShort There are others now who want to do this on a much grander scale for similar causes. Essentially, they would end up creating international treaties restricting freedom of speech. I doubt the U.S. would (or legally could) sign or ratify such a treaty, but it would present serious problems if the U.N. is concerned with what happens on your computer and whether it's objectionable to someone somewhere.
+One ShotShort There are others now who want to do this on a much grander scale for similar causes. Essentially, they would end up creating international treaties restricting freedom of speech. I doubt the U.S. would (or legally could) sign or ratify such a treaty, but it would present serious problems if the U.N. is concerned with what happens on your computer and whether it's objectionable to someone somewhere.
Part of the reasons why the silly ideas such as "video games harming minors" persist must be due to the fact that many states require parents to be held liable for their children's actions. It may seem like scapegoating for bad parenting (it is to a degree), but no parent could possibly have full control over their children without utilizing inhumane methods, let alone have time to do so nowadays (since most families need both parents financially supporting it). Denying children content simply does not cut it either: how will they mature as individual adults? Part of maturing well is learning about "mature content" with the understanding of why complexities MUST exist instead of identifying the world as black-and-white, and parents can't be there for their children anymore. To top it all off, expecting someone to be simply good at parenting is ridiculous: no amount of books can fully describe what the child exactly needs when he/she cries, and for (almost) all parents, it is their first parenting experience. They don't get to raise a "throw-away first-time child" just to have more knowledge about how to really raise a child. Censorship is wrong, but the parents' "scapegoating" will likely persist, because parents themselves are victims of scapegoating as the society blames them for their criminal juveniles.
OF COURSE PARENTS ARE HELD LIABLE FOR THEIR KID'S ACTION. YOU ARE DUMB ENOUGH NOT TO GET A MESSAGE INTO YOUR KID'S HEAD, YOU FAIL AND YOU DESERVE TO BE PUNISHED. YOU DON'T FUKIN SCAPEGOAT ON GAMES. ITS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. GROW THE FUK UP OR DON'T HAVE KIDS.
aefaefa aefawfawfawf Um, laws are laws. Nothing the parents can do about it. You think hitting the kid is the solution? Let's bypass the ethical part of the discussion and simply talk about how *doable* it is for US parents when the result is child protection getting involved when someone else finds out.
aefaefa aefawfawfawf As an Asian myself, I digress. I have seen plenty Asian families who have trouble getting their kids to listen, but simply hide this problem from the public to avoid disgrace. Also, having a child that obeys the parent perfectly would yield a near-equivalent result: as there are parents whose good will is not being communicated to their child, there are also parents whose misinformation and misanthropy is not being communicated to the child. Children with circumstances that favor criminal activity will very likely commit a crime, and although parents can be significant forces against this environment, they are not the only forces at work. And as I have mentioned, parents cannot be there for their child all the time, especially now. Although I agree having a children is something parents should have considered carefully weighing their abilities, future is full of anamolies and unexpected events which can throw calculations overboard. The fact that there is a biological deadline to childbirth (menopause) does not help either. These pressures, combined with whatever cultural pressure that may be present, can sometimes force people to bear/raise children they are not ready for. I am not arguing against disciplining children, and I am not saying that better economy will completely do away with juvenile crime. But part of giving children a good childhood is introducing adult problems, such as social standing and economic welfare, in a moderate, comprehensible pace, and better (economic) standard of living would allow parents to more easily control the children's exposure to these problems.
I don't think the subprime court has any right to do this! I mean minors can choose for themselves! ... Wait a second... My name is Trevor, a 13 year old kid who LOVES studying game development and believes every game can teach someone something. Whether it's science, lititure, or art, games have a purpose. I have seen so much of fun and constructive communication, collaboration, problem solving, etc. in gaming experiences, they should be open to all the people who want them. This is to other minors, why don't we get a day? We are getting something out of this amazing, and why should the U.S. Government have control of us JUST because we are younger then 18? We are not rocks, worthless eggs becoming something more in a long time. So many arguments I said "I don't have the right to say anything." Now I do.
i don't like grammar nazis but the subprime court made me start laughing. of course the subprime court can't decide. One needs a prime court. also lititure?
This is honestly a good question, and it suggests intelligence, which I consider a good thing. It goes to show, amid fields of broken glass, there is always a diamond, so good on you. Let me be plain. Minors are easily influenced. You guys are still growing up, but you aren't there yet. Otherwise, you wouldn't be required by law to live with your parent/guardian until you are 18 and you wouldn't be getting any special care that as adults you won't be able to get. At the same time, that makes you fragile. What happens in your youth will affect your entire life, and it is irreversible. (I know this because as a kid I've been exposed to situations that I was uncomfortable with, and while such exposure was very subtle and wasn't necessarily traumatic it has affected my life in negative ways that makes it harder for me to function as an adult). The concern, of course, is that you get exposed to something that you shouldn't yet, something that will traumatize you. In this day and age, where people are very much desensitized to most stuff, finding something that can traumatize a minor can be pretty hard. But it's there. And more often than not, you won't even realize you've actually been traumatized until you see a professional shrink; because hey, if you're a kid and if you get exposed to something and everyone looks okay about it, it must be the norm, right? This is why the Supreme Court may appear to treat you guys as an object. It is because you guys are, to be blunt, a valuable and fragile resource. You are the future. What we do to you now will affect the way our country is run in 20 years from now (in your case, within the next 4-5 depending on your state and date of birth). It would be unfair to influence you guys negatively the same way one can influence an adult, because you simply aren't ready for it yet. That, of course, is the concern behind this law and its arguments. Thankfully, people realize that this definitely isn't the case. Games are an interactive medium, and so long as people follow the user guidelines such as keeping a game that's M rated away from kids who are under the age of 15-16, then things can be cool, and there is no real harm in exposing kids to violent video games any more than it is to expose them to violent television; it may affect you in the future (and as a 90's kid I can attest to that) but probably not in a negative way. Sorry that the comment was so long, though I hope that helped.
"The industry should have the good taste to not put out certain games..." and then there is a picture of Army of Two!!! I really enjoyed that game. I wonder what they didn't like about it.
I personally don't think it's a bad idea to prevent the sale of ESRB M, R, or AO games to minors without the parents permission. That's basically the same thing as not letting a kid by a ticket to SAW without their parent;it seems pretty logical.
+Duke Gaming Because the government doesn't restrict other art forms to minors. By saying that video games are different than books, movies, tv, music, they are implying that they are not in the category as creative works and therefore not art.
Violent videogames don't harm anything or even cause increased aggression, the few studies that were sorta right measured whether or not the player will put hot sauce in someone's food
Dolphman Patrick Oof, I live in Belgium (Not 'Merica, duh) and that law would have affected everyone beacause most developers come from the USA. So, their law could have f***ed over other people...
I'm sure you folks get this all the time but thank you for putting the time and thought into making these for us, the public, and for doing so in a way that is both accessible and well presented. For that, I am eternally grateful.
As a native Californian and an avid, lifelong gamer, this episode frightened me at first. Even now, with games formally recognized as an art form, I'm glad it's still up because it's very easy to underestimate the lengths to which people will go to lobby against something they don't understand.
Something is so uncanny and compelling about a well voiced video with a slideshow of cartoon-ish drawings but I think I'm addicted to this series. I love the modified voice, the art style, the insights on gaming design, the topics and even the writing and the jokes (The ever so dangerous eraser in the wrong hands..ahem Alison ahem). It's quite interesting. So, good job and please keep making these videos. :)
I have an anecdotal of my experience of video games. When I was teen, I would get angry but instead of runnkng to video games, I went for my books to feed that viloent rage in me. In other words, I think people r going to turn to what appeals to them to lash out on. It's definitely sonething I want to look into!😊
What a lot of people who don't play games don't understand is the people who grew up on the medium, when I was a kid I played a lot of video games. I had no friends, I had anxiety, and I was way to self deprecating. So when I played some TF2, CoD, Elder Scrolls, etc. I felt like someone important, I felt like I was liked by people who weren't related by blood. Video games are an art form, and those who don't think that don't understand
I wrote an in depth paper on how violence in media is destructive not b/c violence is present, but b/c it can be present in such a fashion that it becomes "glorified" to hurt others, as opposed to using violence to provide valuable cathartic experiences that represent positive behaviors and release real tension in the viewer/ player. Yet another point towards good storytelling in games. It's not violence in itself that perpetuates violence, but how it is presented. And this argument does stand.
According to US politicians, I am incapable of making good decisions when buying a game when in fact I bought Spec Ops: The Line for being not just another shooter, for being a window into philosophy and ethics? Those politicians are dumber than they claim me to be.
+Budder Cafe the thing people forget is politicians is not intereted in economy but in getting reélected. most of the time this goes throw having a good economy but if a bad economical idea becomes popular enough politicians will want the credit to making it work.
Things are quite different in the UK, where since about 2012 it has been illegal to sell a video game do an person lower than the PEGI rating on the box. This means that if stores such as GAME are caught selling, for example, a PEGI 18 rated game to a 13 year old that store can be prosecuted in the same way that a store can be prosecuted if a film rated a 15 by the BBFC is sold to a 13 year old.
Seriously, im really fucking triggered. Saying kids have no way to reason at all is stupid. Ages like 4-6 is when you normally dont notice dangers around you but its mainly just the trasition between baby and teenager. Kind of pisses me how oversimplified things can become...
I stumbled upon this channel quite serendipitously, and I am loving it. You guys raise some very VERY good topics, that we as a community (a global community at that) should be talking about, and working towards to solve the related issues.
10 fold? really? books, movies, games... the all have the same amount of artistic value, but I wouldn't trust a middle schooler to know which ones are good for them, and which ones are bad. I really don't want anyone under 16 to ever play GTA, because they aren't ready to digest everything the game is throwing at them, just as I would want them to read orwatch mature books or movies. games aren't higher or lower than other forms of artistic entertainment, and some things are just appropriate for different ages.
The0ptimus From Wikipedia: "In a 7-2 decision, the [Supreme] Court upheld the lower court decisions and nullified the law, ruling that video games were protected speech under the First Amendment as other forms of media."
Everyone! This video is 3 years old. The case was decided long ago. The EC crew is only now able to upload their old videos due to various issues and disputes. That is all.
Wait, so we should look at video games as an art form, and yet you would have us censor what games are produced? "The industry should have the good taste not to put out certain games"? Who determines what games are in this "good taste"? If you are pushing the idea that games are an art form, you have to also accept that there will be some pieces of art that you don't understand, or that you don't agree with. That doesn't devalue them as an art piece though.
+XxRavenwing19xX and why not? is film any less worthy because of video pornography? Are books any less vital because of porno mags and books like 50 shades of grey? if interactive porn is made why should that effect the rest of the industry. Seriously its like saying that castle blanca or saving private ryan are not deep and emotionally moving movies because of pornhub.
volkswagenginetta Your taking a tenth of a inch and making a mile out of it. He said nothing of the sorts. He said publish within some reasonable bounds.
This videos animation has probably made me laugh more than all those before it combined. Just because of the supreme court judges and the scene with the taser
Can't remember exact title, I think ExtraCreditz covers it in one of their vids, I'm going thru them all again now that they're on youtube. It was a game based on the live experiences of a combat troop that came back home and wanted to convey their experience in a game. Controversy went up, the knee-jerk response people threw a hissy fit, and now I'm SURE it's covered in one of the extra credit videos. Must....Find....Video....
I know this vid's over 2 years old, but REALLY?! Anyone under 18 isn't mentally developed enough to play those games?! That's not just an insult to anyone currently under 18. That's an insult to EVERYONE! That's saying that the people 18 and older (including me) were STUPID until they hit 18! And we all know that's not true! Heck I've player Super Smash Bros. Melee before I was thirteen, and by that time I could already decide for myself what games I liked and what ones I didn't like.
@theonetruekirk The episode was originally made before the case was decided. Extra Credits has been uploading several of their older episodes to youtube and other sites after moving from the Escapist to Penny Arcade last year.
Honestly as much as I would hate it to be true, violent video games do have an effect on people, but it really depends on the person and the games depiction of violence, while it's not directly causing violence I can desensitize people like any media and while it won't ever be a direct cause of violence, it can play a minor role in a violent act, though nothing like this would be a direct effect of gaming, for children it might be more vague the effect as depending on the child's knowledge of law and morality a violent video game could have worse effects on them. If a game is clearly rated for mature players, it's not the game to blame for the child's behavior it's how allows them to play/watch it.
Well, honestly, i would probably murder someone if those games weren't out there. They're a stress reliever for me. I've become calmer since i started playing GTA. Because, in the game I can do stuff I can't so in real life. Honestly, the only way Violent games will make a kid a psychopath is if the TV is the only thing raising them. Because if parents teach kids the consequences of doing this in real life, teach the mortality of doing it in real life, then the kid will be fine
ivan1352 The problems however do not come from Games inspiring violence. It is more from parents and adults leaving their children without explaination to certain topics, either because they feel uncomfortable with it or jsut have no time for that. Another point is (for America at least) that many people own weapons and leave them lying around openly for children to easily access them. That alone should be looked upon as well. Society raises people into being unattentive when it comes to children, unless it throws a bad light on themselves or their nation. So instead of facing the blame, they blame it on something easier. Video Games. I admit that games can be rather brutal, but hell I am 27 years old and have played more games than my age x150 at least. I grew up with them and stayed decend, because my siblings and parents kept me from misinterpreting Games into reality. The same goes for my little sister. She's 13 years old, played games like God of War and even Dead Island, but she's not turning violent the least. Not around school, home or during shopping. She's even rather shy and helpful, eager to learn more about history and programming itself. So I would say all that is needed is just someone to make sure that these kids understand what is going on, instead of labeling everything as evil. :3
I havn't read any of the responses to "Brony Fuckboi"'s comment, but I will say one thing: Every single argument about video-games causing violence can be said about literally every single other form of media in existence.
Violent games may or may not affect minors, depending on their backgrounds and psychological states. It all depends on the individual's state of mind, not the game itself.
Historic 7-2 decision that broke party lines. Scalia (the most conservative conservative on the Supreme Court) Kennedy (a reputedly "swing" voter) and the three liberal female justices sided with videogames as protected speech. Scalia wrote the majority opinion blasting this idiotic law and cementing games as protected speech. Alito and Roberts (two conservatives) Concurred that the law was unconstitutional but they didn't think games deserved first amendment protections. They helped shoot down this law because it was too vague and could easily affect media they enjoy. But for some reason they expected a better written one to take its place in no time. Which is never going to happen given what Scalia wrote in the majority opinion. This level of ignorance about the finality of a supreme court ruling really says something about the guys Bush put on the bench. One need only look at Roe v. Wade to see that these decision don't get overturned easily or quickly. Breyer (a liberal justice) and Thomas (a conservative who almost always votes in step with Scalia) both wrote dissenting opinions claiming that all games are murder and rape simulators, devoid of value.
The same thing happened to comic books in the 60's , the medium was lost for a while but later it rose from the grave and enjoyed a great run through the 70's and 90's and still has a great (though small) audience today. So video games will probably never die they might just suck for a couple years.
LOL. So Ride to Hell: Retribution is legally obscene. 1: Pretty much everyone finds the work objectionable, 2: It describes sexual content in both offence-able and objectionable ways, and 3: It totally lacks ANY literary, artistic, political, and scientific value.
Mediums are regulated, individual attempts within the medium stand or fall on their own. RtH fails to be a playable game and denigrates the medium, but it shouldn't be banned. Commercial failure is punishment worthy and fitting of shitty games. No other action required.
Adoss shall rule all Kinda on hold, been on and off hold for the past few years actually. It's going to be Outlast-like except your in the mountains during the winter and you gotta call for help. It's called Moniacal, like the word demoniacal :)
What?? Side against Government regulation and oversight and instead.... use a free market solution to direct developers to make better games?? You radical hate mongers!
I can't believe you guys would include a "you're retarded" meme. I love the channel, but that is offensive whether you're actually making fun of handicapped people or not. Really poor choice.
Extra Credits Crew - You need to put a disclaimer up that this is an old video. Those not in the know may actually think that the Supreme Court case has yet to be decided, when in fact, we won.
I don't know how old you are, but hopefully you feel you have gained wisdom, growth and better ways to make positive choices and protect yourself. That is what growing up is all about!
This is ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. I never been a law student, and even I say that banning games violates free speech. Heck even so called "obscene" works should still be allowed, provided that they have proper warnings tagged on. Video games already have a good rating system. That is a significant help right there. All we need to do is to make a requirement. If a customer buys an M rated game, they need to show their ID to prove they are old enough. That is an easy and fair way to improve it. It allows free speech, while also protecting minors. If a parent buys a video game, they can get a rated M game. Then it is their responsibility to make sure their child never plays or watches it, until they are ready. Problem solved.
I'm australian and over here we restrict access to content to minors all the time and it works well for everyone. the way we do it is pretty simple. every game or movie in a store (not counting online stores like steam cause they go under us law not Australian) has a rating which is done by looking at a check list and based on that slap a letter on it. i will put a list of the ratings here for context. G or general: suitable for everyone pc or parental guidance: it is not recommended under 15 without guidance m or mature: not recommended under 15 ma or Mature Accompanied: not suitable for under 15 r or restricted: not suitable for under 18 ok now you know the ratings i can get into the law. anyone can buy g, pg or m as they are not restricted, m content like gta you must by over 15 to buy and they probably will ask for id and r rated is restricted to 18 and again will be asked for id. no one under the required age can buy them but if a parent wants to buy it for their kids that is legal. it forces anyone too young for some video games to ask a parent for permission to buy and lets them make the call. while still making any other game available. this rating is the same for movies and cinema, for some to see a restricted movie like die hard they must be over 15 or with an adult. it's a great system as it puts it on to the parents and it can be only bought with their permission.
We won Video Games nah Intractive Media as a whole got a hole lot bigger and in two years I will have the joy and privilege to paint a future for this media. These vidoes are an excent learning tool to help me learn how to make my future dreams a reality thanks Extra Credis you have been a massive help.
isnt it enough that we have the ESRB. and i used to work in walmart where if an M rated game was scanned by the register i couldnt continue scanning until i verified the age of the person buying. so why do people have to keep pressing the matter
In addition, the blame should be shared differently based on approximate maturity level. My brother is 25, but acts like he's still 16. He's responsible for his actions, but doesn't take any responsibility for any of them. He continues to blame our parents for his failures.
Here is a test I have made (the example is Dead Or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball): 1: The average player must be able to beome engaged with the main activity (volleyball in my example) 2: The game must not have any value whatsoever as an art. 3: The game must have objectionable content (the lewd scenes in my example) 4: The game must be for mature audiences. The test attempts to find if the game should have 1st Amendment protection. If a game fails the test, it means it shouldn't be defended.
Amen my man, they combine all the best forms of art, visual, story, music and add interactivity. They are like movies, except interactive, and better (Well most of the time, WE'RE LOOKING AT YOU BIG RIGS OVER THE ROAD RACING). I know I kinda just repeated what you said but, well you said it all :P.
games with murder are usually rated M. it is the parents fault for missing that, retailers are also supposed to ask *if child was with them possibly never seen in other case* "you do know this game is rated mature?" to which my parents always responded yes because they saw that these games were not harming me, but they did not hesitate if they started affecting my life to take all my good stuff away. i played games since i was 5, i have no intentions of murder, rape, or any vile act you think of
I am quite happy that this is episode now does not need to exist.
The Supreme Court struck this law down, ending the threat of video game censorship for the foreseeable future.
Yep :D although it would be fun to drive over to Sacramento and talk to them about how idiotic this law is, but, Luckily, the Supreme Court struck it down :D.
+Ryan The Roman I'm from California but I don't know many people who agreed with that trying to be a thing.
Might come back to the table in France again
Praise be the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Apparently we have this sort of setup in Ontario, where children cannot legally play M-rated titles.
One thing that frustrates me so much when people claim "VIDEO GAMES CAUSE VIOLENCE!" is that that exact same argument can be applied to literally every other form of media in existence.
Cubit agreed,tho it might have some truth in it, I think a responsible parent could solve this easily, sadly not many kid has such a luxury, most kids violent is more related to bad environment and or bad parent
And has.
The only school shooter who played games at or above the average, played dance dance stardom. Violent people usually play LESS games on average. So yeah.
I knew that quote at the end was from John Milton because of Civilization V. Even more proof of games' value as a medium.
+TeeDubGaming Oh yes. I've learned more about history from historical strategy games than I've learned from history class. Europa Universalis IV has been my professor of early modern history.
You deserve a cookie.
Gustavo Campos
+a few more too
I've learned more about physics from Kerbal Space Program than from 13 years of school.
The stay on target joke had me literally laughing out loud. You guys are not only great gaming minds but subtle masters of comedy. Keep up the great work!
yeah, keep up the good work, and stay on target!
I don't know about "subtle" but otherwise agreed. :)
You laugh too easily.
I have come from the year 2016 VIDEO GAMES BECOME AN ART
Joseph Suarez many are like wolfenstein the new order etc.
Or specs ops, undertale, etc. We've had a lot of really amazing experiences happen since this video was posted.
Botw, Mario odyssey, God of war, overwatch, undertale, persona 5, firewatch, donkey Kong country tropical freeze, snake pass and many, many more
Electric Memer 2018. Aliens have taken over
clarke brozz yep thats sad but its ower reallity now
I feel a sense of irony having this recommended to me by Google after what they're doing to TH-cam...
Some kids mature faster than others and are easily mature enough way before 18. On the other hand, some kids take 60 years to mature. There is no standard you can set to tell if a kid is mature enough or not.
I wholeheartedly agree. I'm 14, and I'm one of the more mature, inquisitive, and sophisticated people I know in my age group. (By that I mean I've understood the complexities and intricacies of music and books since I was eleven, and I've been trying to apply that knowledge and interest to video games for the past year or so despite having played them for all of my life.) I think that, if I wanted to, I could play GTA or CoD and not be terribly affected by them, but I prefer not to, because I enjoy video games that stray from reality, usually in the direction of the comical or ridiculous, as my favorite game company at the moment is Nintendo due to the whimsical nature of nearly all of their games. They just put me in a good mood. I feel like, no matter what happens, hope is never truly lost and there's always another try. Even more so, I enjoy them because they often COMPLETELY stray from reality, and yet manage to create somewhat realistic environments and pull them off fantastically. For example, in LoZ: Majora's Mask, the moon has an enormous face on it that creates the sense of unease and dread, but is completely unreasonable. However, how the characters react to having destruction looming over their heads is very accurate to how people might react to that type of disaster. I mean, if you buy into the theory that the five areas of Termina are based on the five stages of grief (denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance) then the character reactions make perfect sense: they are responding to death in a way that fits their characters and the order that you meet them in.
Zoroark MI Normaly I would say you shouldnt talk about how mature you think you are but you actually do seem to have a very in depth perspective on the art of video games. We need more people like you.
TheAgentTexas I realized after writing that that I might have come off as a little self-centered. What I said wasn't meant to be any kind of definitive proof of my maturity or anything, it was only to point how my thoughts on music, books, and video games differ from most other people in my age group.
P.S. Thank you. It means a lot to me.
Zoroark MI Ok, ya cause it did seem self centered even though I knew that wasnt ur intention. But ya essentially it comes down to parenting. Parents need to know enough about the industry so that they can make a good judgment on whether or not their kids should be able to play certain games. Unfortunately many parents play the either extreme by not letting them play anything all the way to letting 6 year olds play GTA.
TheAgentTexas It wasn't that my parents knew enough about the industry or anything, they just had the common sense to be careful what games they let me play. I grew up with the GameBoy Advance and the PS2, and one of my favorite games back then was The Incredible Hulk, in which you could seriously fling people into the ocean... Brilliant! Anyway, it didn't really affect me all that much, because it wasn't very violent, it was just comical. It was so exaggerated that it was funny. It wasn't that you were effectively killing people, it was that you were flicking them in the first place.
''minors have no way to reason''
So, if you turn 18, you instantly -POOF'' acquire reason?
Heh, I know half a dozen of 11 yr old's who act more reasonable than some adults. *sigh
derpotyrannus rex yes. that is true
I think the age of 18 is more like a mark, at which point most young people have acquired some degree of reason and responsibility. This is something, that develops over time and of course no one believes, that there is this magical barrier where this is instantly happening. Same is true for every age restriction. Heck we even have this restriction on books (at least here in Germany). Same goes for Movies. Yes this is all still Art, but nevertheless it can be something, that is not for the eyes of at 10-year-old. And since more and more Parents seem to fail at shielding their children from (for their age) inappropriate content there should be some way to do this without the Parent.
derpotyrannus rex "so if you turn 18, you instantly -POOF' acquire reason?" Well, no, there's an entire year before a child turns 18 in which they're suddenly given the same punishments as an adult without the priveleges. You know, we call it being 17. It's essentially the final crucible, as you can suddenly be tried as an adult for a crime much easier than you could at any other age before. It's not necessarily a sudden bridge to reason, but rather a test of it.
"Heh, I know half a dozen 11 yr olds who act more reasonable than some adults." Well, those are exceptions to the rule. Just because exceptions exist, that doesn't mean that the rule is invalid. I know a dozen 11 yr olds that could point out and correct every grammatical error in your comment, but that doesn't mean that all children can. In fact, generally, they can't. That dozen kids are just exceptions.
LEVEL UP! You have unlocked: Reason
It is a widely accepted tenet of law that minors are distinct from adults, largely by lacking legal recognition of an ability to make informed decisions. Minors can't enter into contracts, buy or receive alcohol (except under guardian supervision in some states), buy or receive porn, or have sex. It's not at all absurd from a legal standpoint.
considering this was posted 3 years ago i assume the supreme court said fuck no? :D
Agreed XD I'm really glad that we didn't lose that case :)
One ShotShort HELL YEAH, Truth wins again! GAMES FTW
Well the worst lawyer in the world that is from a different country to the U.S can tell you that completely controlling what people say, buy, do, sell, create and express is unconstitutional and immoral.
Add to that the fact that California was randomly insulting all of their citizens and in fact all Americans saying that they couldn't make rational decisions then their is no case to present, this would of lasted a day.
+One ShotShort There are others now who want to do this on a much grander scale for similar causes. Essentially, they would end up creating international treaties restricting freedom of speech. I doubt the U.S. would (or legally could) sign or ratify such a treaty, but it would present serious problems if the U.N. is concerned with what happens on your computer and whether it's objectionable to someone somewhere.
+One ShotShort There are others now who want to do this on a much grander scale for similar causes. Essentially, they would end up creating international treaties restricting freedom of speech. I doubt the U.S. would (or legally could) sign or ratify such a treaty, but it would present serious problems if the U.N. is concerned with what happens on your computer and whether it's objectionable to someone somewhere.
XD I can just imagine that it isn't the specific case but the Supreme Court was just like, "Alright Already! If we look at this, will you shut up?"
Part of the reasons why the silly ideas such as "video games harming minors" persist must be due to the fact that many states require parents to be held liable for their children's actions. It may seem like scapegoating for bad parenting (it is to a degree), but no parent could possibly have full control over their children without utilizing inhumane methods, let alone have time to do so nowadays (since most families need both parents financially supporting it). Denying children content simply does not cut it either: how will they mature as individual adults? Part of maturing well is learning about "mature content" with the understanding of why complexities MUST exist instead of identifying the world as black-and-white, and parents can't be there for their children anymore. To top it all off, expecting someone to be simply good at parenting is ridiculous: no amount of books can fully describe what the child exactly needs when he/she cries, and for (almost) all parents, it is their first parenting experience. They don't get to raise a "throw-away first-time child" just to have more knowledge about how to really raise a child.
Censorship is wrong, but the parents' "scapegoating" will likely persist, because parents themselves are victims of scapegoating as the society blames them for their criminal juveniles.
TL,DR: "It's all economy's fault. Everything is the economy's fault."
Simon Eliasson Extra Credits *slowly claps sincerely
Bravo. Well said good sir.
OF COURSE PARENTS ARE HELD LIABLE FOR THEIR KID'S ACTION. YOU ARE DUMB ENOUGH NOT TO GET A MESSAGE INTO YOUR KID'S HEAD, YOU FAIL AND YOU DESERVE TO BE PUNISHED. YOU DON'T FUKIN SCAPEGOAT ON GAMES. ITS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. GROW THE FUK UP OR DON'T HAVE KIDS.
aefaefa aefawfawfawf Um, laws are laws. Nothing the parents can do about it. You think hitting the kid is the solution? Let's bypass the ethical part of the discussion and simply talk about how *doable* it is for US parents when the result is child protection getting involved when someone else finds out.
aefaefa aefawfawfawf As an Asian myself, I digress. I have seen plenty Asian families who have trouble getting their kids to listen, but simply hide this problem from the public to avoid disgrace. Also, having a child that obeys the parent perfectly would yield a near-equivalent result: as there are parents whose good will is not being communicated to their child, there are also parents whose misinformation and misanthropy is not being communicated to the child. Children with circumstances that favor criminal activity will very likely commit a crime, and although parents can be significant forces against this environment, they are not the only forces at work.
And as I have mentioned, parents cannot be there for their child all the time, especially now. Although I agree having a children is something parents should have considered carefully weighing their abilities, future is full of anamolies and unexpected events which can throw calculations overboard. The fact that there is a biological deadline to childbirth (menopause) does not help either. These pressures, combined with whatever cultural pressure that may be present, can sometimes force people to bear/raise children they are not ready for.
I am not arguing against disciplining children, and I am not saying that better economy will completely do away with juvenile crime. But part of giving children a good childhood is introducing adult problems, such as social standing and economic welfare, in a moderate, comprehensible pace, and better (economic) standard of living would allow parents to more easily control the children's exposure to these problems.
Well, this aged well.
Indeed
Well, if you watch and understand their videos, assuming you're referring to what I think you do
could you point me to the video that everyone is talking about?
Greetings from 2024
I don't think the subprime court has any right to do this! I mean minors can choose for themselves!
...
Wait a second...
My name is Trevor, a 13 year old kid who LOVES studying game development and believes every game can teach someone something. Whether it's science, lititure, or art, games have a purpose. I have seen so much of fun and constructive communication, collaboration, problem solving, etc. in gaming experiences, they should be open to all the people who want them.
This is to other minors, why don't we get a day? We are getting something out of this amazing, and why should the U.S. Government have control of us JUST because we are younger then 18? We are not rocks, worthless eggs becoming something more in a long time.
So many arguments I said "I don't have the right to say anything."
Now I do.
Oh, hi NSA. How you doing?
Captain Mac ?
i don't like grammar nazis but the subprime court made me start laughing. of course the subprime court can't decide. One needs a prime court. also lititure?
blablaman1001 did you not read his comment
This is honestly a good question, and it suggests intelligence, which I consider a good thing. It goes to show, amid fields of broken glass, there is always a diamond, so good on you.
Let me be plain. Minors are easily influenced. You guys are still growing up, but you aren't there yet. Otherwise, you wouldn't be required by law to live with your parent/guardian until you are 18 and you wouldn't be getting any special care that as adults you won't be able to get. At the same time, that makes you fragile. What happens in your youth will affect your entire life, and it is irreversible. (I know this because as a kid I've been exposed to situations that I was uncomfortable with, and while such exposure was very subtle and wasn't necessarily traumatic it has affected my life in negative ways that makes it harder for me to function as an adult). The concern, of course, is that you get exposed to something that you shouldn't yet, something that will traumatize you. In this day and age, where people are very much desensitized to most stuff, finding something that can traumatize a minor can be pretty hard. But it's there. And more often than not, you won't even realize you've actually been traumatized until you see a professional shrink; because hey, if you're a kid and if you get exposed to something and everyone looks okay about it, it must be the norm, right?
This is why the Supreme Court may appear to treat you guys as an object. It is because you guys are, to be blunt, a valuable and fragile resource. You are the future. What we do to you now will affect the way our country is run in 20 years from now (in your case, within the next 4-5 depending on your state and date of birth). It would be unfair to influence you guys negatively the same way one can influence an adult, because you simply aren't ready for it yet. That, of course, is the concern behind this law and its arguments. Thankfully, people realize that this definitely isn't the case. Games are an interactive medium, and so long as people follow the user guidelines such as keeping a game that's M rated away from kids who are under the age of 15-16, then things can be cool, and there is no real harm in exposing kids to violent video games any more than it is to expose them to violent television; it may affect you in the future (and as a 90's kid I can attest to that) but probably not in a negative way.
Sorry that the comment was so long, though I hope that helped.
"The industry should have the good taste to not put out certain games..." and then there is a picture of Army of Two!!! I really enjoyed that game. I wonder what they didn't like about it.
Am I the only one who thinks the supreme court only excepted to hear this case because they were sick of these laws constantly being proposed.
I personally don't think it's a bad idea to prevent the sale of ESRB M, R, or AO games to minors without the parents permission. That's basically the same thing as not letting a kid by a ticket to SAW without their parent;it seems pretty logical.
+balrogdahomie but it'll imply that games aren't protected by the first amendment
+Alex The Crossover Nomad Could you explain in more detail
+Duke Gaming Because the government doesn't restrict other art forms to minors. By saying that video games are different than books, movies, tv, music, they are implying that they are not in the category as creative works and therefore not art.
Where I'm from, you can't sell a game to someone under the age rating, but there's no restrictions on digital wallet codes
Violent videogames don't harm anything or even cause increased aggression, the few studies that were sorta right measured whether or not the player will put hot sauce in someone's food
I'm going through every episode within your series. These videos are amazing!! Thank you!
for those who are wondering, the Supreme court struck down the law. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Entertainment_Merchants_Ass%27n
Your games are safe
Dolphman Patrick Oof, I live in Belgium (Not 'Merica, duh) and that law would have affected everyone beacause most developers come from the USA. So, their law could have f***ed over other people...
I love who the link gets shorten to Entertainment_Merchants_A**
I'm sure you folks get this all the time but thank you for putting the time and thought into making these for us, the public, and for doing so in a way that is both accessible and well presented. For that, I am eternally grateful.
Hypocrites.
We all are. Point remains in what standards does this contradiction you're accusing of stands for?
@@MultiverseOfInfinity which one?
could you point me to the video that everyone is talking about?
As a native Californian and an avid, lifelong gamer, this episode frightened me at first.
Even now, with games formally recognized as an art form, I'm glad it's still up because it's very easy to underestimate the lengths to which people will go to lobby against something they don't understand.
There you are playing your favorite wwii shooter...
Something is so uncanny and compelling about a well voiced video with a slideshow of cartoon-ish drawings but I think I'm addicted to this series. I love the modified voice, the art style, the insights on gaming design, the topics and even the writing and the jokes (The ever so dangerous eraser in the wrong hands..ahem Alison ahem). It's quite interesting.
So, good job and please keep making these videos. :)
I’m surprised they didn’t take down this video considering their current stances....
could you point me to the video that everyone is talking about?
@@calebperaon4768the video is called “stop normalising n@zis” it was taken down but it was reuploaded
I don't have enough room to favorite every one of your episodes guys....
*How the mighty have fallen...*
could you point me to the video that everyone is talking about?
5:56 This quote gives me chills. Great vid.
I have an anecdotal of my experience of video games. When I was teen, I would get angry but instead of runnkng to video games, I went for my books to feed that viloent rage in me.
In other words, I think people r going to turn to what appeals to them to lash out on. It's definitely sonething I want to look into!😊
What a lot of people who don't play games don't understand is the people who grew up on the medium, when I was a kid I played a lot of video games. I had no friends, I had anxiety, and I was way to self deprecating. So when I played some TF2, CoD, Elder Scrolls, etc. I felt like someone important, I felt like I was liked by people who weren't related by blood. Video games are an art form, and those who don't think that don't understand
I didn't ask for this
You didn't choose this
Yet here you are
I wrote an in depth paper on how violence in media is destructive not b/c violence is present, but b/c it can be present in such a fashion that it becomes "glorified" to hurt others, as opposed to using violence to provide valuable cathartic experiences that represent positive behaviors and release real tension in the viewer/ player. Yet another point towards good storytelling in games. It's not violence in itself that perpetuates violence, but how it is presented. And this argument does stand.
“Seriously California, improve your education.” So, so true...
You guys are fantastic, thank you for bringing this to my attention :)
According to US politicians, I am incapable of making good decisions when buying a game when in fact I bought Spec Ops: The Line for being not just another shooter, for being a window into philosophy and ethics?
Those politicians are dumber than they claim me to be.
The little mention of the escapist kind of has a new meaning now.
Why the HELL would the government ban games? It's economy is already fucked up enough. It isn't worth it to get rid of a TRILLION dollar industry.
Notch was unbelievably successful with minecraft government... Nuff said.
+Data Raven Mine craft isn't rated M for mature. And technically it can be considered an art game. Nobody bans paint for the "Birth of Venus".
+Data Raven Minecraft isn't bad.
+Budder Cafe the thing people forget is politicians is not intereted in economy but in getting reélected. most of the time this goes throw having a good economy but if a bad economical idea becomes popular enough politicians will want the credit to making it work.
Things are quite different in the UK, where since about 2012 it has been illegal to sell a video game do an person lower than the PEGI rating on the box. This means that if stores such as GAME are caught selling, for example, a PEGI 18 rated game to a 13 year old that store can be prosecuted in the same way that a store can be prosecuted if a film rated a 15 by the BBFC is sold to a 13 year old.
Seriously, im really fucking triggered.
Saying kids have no way to reason at all is stupid.
Ages like 4-6 is when you normally dont notice dangers around you but its mainly just the trasition between baby and teenager.
Kind of pisses me how oversimplified things can become...
I understood the symbolism in The Lion King before I was 10. As a kid, I was winning rational debates with adults regularly.
I stumbled upon this channel quite serendipitously, and I am loving it. You guys raise some very VERY good topics, that we as a community (a global community at that) should be talking about, and working towards to solve the related issues.
10 fold? really? books, movies, games... the all have the same amount of artistic value, but I wouldn't trust a middle schooler to know which ones are good for them, and which ones are bad. I really don't want anyone under 16 to ever play GTA, because they aren't ready to digest everything the game is throwing at them, just as I would want them to read orwatch mature books or movies. games aren't higher or lower than other forms of artistic entertainment, and some things are just appropriate for different ages.
I found you guys at around 7pm...it's after midnight, I'll pick up tomorrow. :D
What is the status of this issue currently? This video is 3 years old, I'm curious
The0ptimus From Wikipedia:
"In a 7-2 decision, the [Supreme] Court upheld the lower court decisions and
nullified the law, ruling that video games were protected speech under
the First Amendment as other forms of media."
W00T W00T video games are art too!!!
YEAH SWEEEEEET WOOHOOOOOOOO
dragemis awesome.
I thought so too, but we were both wrong. According to that same Wikipedia article, the two dissenting judges were Clarence Thomas and Stephen Breyer.
Everyone! This video is 3 years old. The case was decided long ago. The EC crew is only now able to upload their old videos due to various issues and disputes. That is all.
Wait, so we should look at video games as an art form, and yet you would have us censor what games are produced? "The industry should have the good taste not to put out certain games"? Who determines what games are in this "good taste"? If you are pushing the idea that games are an art form, you have to also accept that there will be some pieces of art that you don't understand, or that you don't agree with. That doesn't devalue them as an art piece though.
He's saying the industry shouldn't make interactive porn.
+XxRavenwing19xX and why not? is film any less worthy because of video pornography? Are books any less vital because of porno mags and books like 50 shades of grey? if interactive porn is made why should that effect the rest of the industry. Seriously its like saying that castle blanca or saving private ryan are not deep and emotionally moving movies because of pornhub.
volkswagenginetta
Your taking a tenth of a inch and making a mile out of it. He said nothing of the sorts. He said publish within some reasonable bounds.
XxRavenwing19xX does my point fail in any way? is their a problem with my idea?
volkswagenginetta
No but your stretching what was said.
This videos animation has probably made me laugh more than all those before it combined. Just because of the supreme court judges and the scene with the taser
How did the case go?
Video games were declared protected by the first amendment.
Woo hoo
Can't remember exact title, I think ExtraCreditz covers it in one of their vids, I'm going thru them all again now that they're on youtube. It was a game based on the live experiences of a combat troop that came back home and wanted to convey their experience in a game. Controversy went up, the knee-jerk response people threw a hissy fit, and now I'm SURE it's covered in one of the extra credit videos. Must....Find....Video....
Six Days in Fallujah. The video was Controversy in Games
I know this vid's over 2 years old, but REALLY?! Anyone under 18 isn't mentally developed enough to play those games?!
That's not just an insult to anyone currently under 18. That's an insult to EVERYONE! That's saying that the people 18 and older (including me) were STUPID until they hit 18! And we all know that's not true!
Heck I've player Super Smash Bros. Melee before I was thirteen, and by that time I could already decide for myself what games I liked and what ones I didn't like.
It also implies that everyone older than 18 has a developed mind
...
Sometimes you should stop before you say something you'll regret later on.
Like what you just said?
@theonetruekirk The episode was originally made before the case was decided. Extra Credits has been uploading several of their older episodes to youtube and other sites after moving from the Escapist to Penny Arcade last year.
2:34 LOL
5:49. A bureaucrat working until 6! LOL!
Leave it to the state of California to take away freedom.
It's run by left-wing liberals, so yeah.
LawlessNate The bill was sponsored mostly by republicans (gov schwazenterminator-guy being on the title until 2007))
Citation needed.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Entertainment_Merchants_Association
lmao ya got dunked by a wikipedia link
Just in case anyone was wondering: The quote is from John Milton's Areopagitica.
Honestly as much as I would hate it to be true, violent video games do have an effect on people, but it really depends on the person and the games depiction of violence, while it's not directly causing violence I can desensitize people like any media and while it won't ever be a direct cause of violence, it can play a minor role in a violent act, though nothing like this would be a direct effect of gaming, for children it might be more vague the effect as depending on the child's knowledge of law and morality a violent video game could have worse effects on them. If a game is clearly rated for mature players, it's not the game to blame for the child's behavior it's how allows them to play/watch it.
Well, honestly, i would probably murder someone if those games weren't out there. They're a stress reliever for me. I've become calmer since i started playing GTA. Because, in the game I can do stuff I can't so in real life. Honestly, the only way Violent games will make a kid a psychopath is if the TV is the only thing raising them. Because if parents teach kids the consequences of doing this in real life, teach the mortality of doing it in real life, then the kid will be fine
ivan1352
The problems however do not come from Games inspiring violence.
It is more from parents and adults leaving their children without explaination to certain topics, either because they feel uncomfortable with it or jsut have no time for that. Another point is (for America at least) that many people own weapons and leave them lying around openly for children to easily access them. That alone should be looked upon as well.
Society raises people into being unattentive when it comes to children, unless it throws a bad light on themselves or their nation. So instead of facing the blame, they blame it on something easier. Video Games.
I admit that games can be rather brutal, but hell I am 27 years old and have played more games than my age x150 at least. I grew up with them and stayed decend, because my siblings and parents kept me from misinterpreting Games into reality. The same goes for my little sister. She's 13 years old, played games like God of War and even Dead Island, but she's not turning violent the least. Not around school, home or during shopping. She's even rather shy and helpful, eager to learn more about history and programming itself.
So I would say all that is needed is just someone to make sure that these kids understand what is going on, instead of labeling everything as evil. :3
Even before video games, people have always been violent.
I havn't read any of the responses to "Brony Fuckboi"'s comment, but I will say one thing: Every single argument about video-games causing violence can be said about literally every single other form of media in existence.
Call of Duty is still a thing, so I'm guessing California lost.
A child learned how to do basic CPR from spongebob and saved his friends life that way.
You're about 7 years too early
Am I the only person who noticed that Dan is the only person with arms??
Violent games may or may not affect minors, depending on their backgrounds and psychological states. It all depends on the individual's state of mind, not the game itself.
They've done a test, last year, I think, over a decade, on a whole bunch of (sane) kids. It doesn't affect them, and neither does TV.
Who first said that quote at the end? It's phenomenal.
What happened in this case? Anyone know?
Video games won en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Entertainment_Merchants_Association
aPigLP YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
Historic 7-2 decision that broke party lines. Scalia (the most conservative conservative on the Supreme Court) Kennedy (a reputedly "swing" voter) and the three liberal female justices sided with videogames as protected speech. Scalia wrote the majority opinion blasting this idiotic law and cementing games as protected speech.
Alito and Roberts (two conservatives) Concurred that the law was unconstitutional but they didn't think games deserved first amendment protections. They helped shoot down this law because it was too vague and could easily affect media they enjoy. But for some reason they expected a better written one to take its place in no time. Which is never going to happen given what Scalia wrote in the majority opinion. This level of ignorance about the finality of a supreme court ruling really says something about the guys Bush put on the bench. One need only look at Roe v. Wade to see that these decision don't get overturned easily or quickly.
Breyer (a liberal justice) and Thomas (a conservative who almost always votes in step with Scalia) both wrote dissenting opinions claiming that all games are murder and rape simulators, devoid of value.
CitanulsPumpkin nice, that makes me happy to see.
The same thing happened to comic books in the 60's , the medium was lost for a while but later it rose from the grave and enjoyed a great run through the 70's and 90's and still has a great (though small) audience today. So video games will probably never die they might just suck for a couple years.
LOL. So Ride to Hell: Retribution is legally obscene. 1: Pretty much everyone finds the work objectionable, 2: It describes sexual content in both offence-able and objectionable ways, and 3: It totally lacks ANY literary, artistic, political, and scientific value.
Mediums are regulated, individual attempts within the medium stand or fall on their own. RtH fails to be a playable game and denigrates the medium, but it shouldn't be banned. Commercial failure is punishment worthy and fitting of shitty games. No other action required.
The "stay on target" clip made me laugh for a good minute straight
I'm glad this didn't pass, or else I probably wouldn't be watching this series trying to make a horror game right about now.
Intriguing! Whats its name and concept, If you don't mind me asking?
Adoss shall rule all Kinda on hold, been on and off hold for the past few years actually. It's going to be Outlast-like except your in the mountains during the winter and you gotta call for help. It's called Moniacal, like the word demoniacal :)
I think I can help you.. the game was called: Six Days in Fallujah
What?? Side against Government regulation and oversight and instead.... use a free market solution to direct developers to make better games?? You radical hate mongers!
Sarcasm yes?
That extract effectively states;
"In order to protect the freedom of children, we must stifle the freedom of children."
DID CALIFORNIA WIN!?!
Nope. This happened years ago, lol
"Stay on target. Stay on target!" I have never seen that ever used before. That really made me laugh. Now back to the show.
I can't believe you guys would include a "you're retarded" meme. I love the channel, but that is offensive whether you're actually making fun of handicapped people or not. Really poor choice.
Extra Credits Crew - You need to put a disclaimer up that this is an old video. Those not in the know may actually think that the Supreme Court case has yet to be decided, when in fact, we won.
Its sad that EC stoop to the level of woke culture
that last quote is in civ 5 after getting the writing technology
this is going under a new playlist of "videos to show my father"
THIS SERIES IS LIKE A HYDRA
FOR EVERY EP I FINISH, TWO MORE INTERESTING ONES POP UP!
@OkamiRPG27 Sweet! Thanks for the comment!!
I don't know how old you are, but hopefully you feel you have gained wisdom, growth and better ways to make positive choices and protect yourself. That is what growing up is all about!
This is ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. I never been a law student, and even I say that banning games violates free speech. Heck even so called "obscene" works should still be allowed, provided that they have proper warnings tagged on. Video games already have a good rating system. That is a significant help right there. All we need to do is to make a requirement. If a customer buys an M rated game, they need to show their ID to prove they are old enough. That is an easy and fair way to improve it. It allows free speech, while also protecting minors. If a parent buys a video game, they can get a rated M game. Then it is their responsibility to make sure their child never plays or watches it, until they are ready. Problem solved.
I'm australian and over here we restrict access to content to minors all the time and it works well for everyone. the way we do it is pretty simple. every game or movie in a store (not counting online stores like steam cause they go under us law not Australian) has a rating which is done by looking at a check list and based on that slap a letter on it. i will put a list of the ratings here for context.
G or general: suitable for everyone
pc or parental guidance: it is not recommended under 15 without guidance
m or mature: not recommended under 15
ma or Mature Accompanied: not suitable for under 15
r or restricted: not suitable for under 18
ok now you know the ratings i can get into the law. anyone can buy g, pg or m as they are not restricted, m content like gta you must by over 15 to buy and they probably will ask for id and r rated is restricted to 18 and again will be asked for id. no one under the required age can buy them but if a parent wants to buy it for their kids that is legal. it forces anyone too young for some video games to ask a parent for permission to buy and lets them make the call. while still making any other game available. this rating is the same for movies and cinema, for some to see a restricted movie like die hard they must be over 15 or with an adult. it's a great system as it puts it on to the parents and it can be only bought with their permission.
We won Video Games nah Intractive Media as a whole got a hole lot bigger and in two years I will have the joy and privilege to paint a future for this media. These vidoes are an excent learning tool to help me learn how to make my future dreams a reality thanks Extra Credis you have been a massive help.
I am 13, and I think you sir are a amazing and civilaized human, and I hope that there are more of you.
The Star Wars reference had me rolling.
isnt it enough that we have the ESRB. and i used to work in walmart where if an M rated game was scanned by the register i couldnt continue scanning until i verified the age of the person buying. so why do people have to keep pressing the matter
4:38 - Can someone give me a link to this quote?
In addition, the blame should be shared differently based on approximate maturity level. My brother is 25, but acts like he's still 16. He's responsible for his actions, but doesn't take any responsibility for any of them. He continues to blame our parents for his failures.
I had no idea about this...although it was back in 2012...can anyone tell me the results of all this? What happened?
***** HELL YES!
***** his name was leeland yee
The worst thing about me wanting to share those two articles is I couldn't sound more like a damned advert if I tried.
the ruling of the previous courts was upheld 7-2, California was not allowed to restrict the sale of violent video games.
It took a lot of will power for me to just shut off my computer and go to sleep.
2:54 Damn, did Dan just diss the site that hosted his show? _🤔_
Here is a test I have made (the example is Dead Or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball):
1: The average player must be able to beome engaged with the main activity (volleyball in my example)
2: The game must not have any value whatsoever as an art.
3: The game must have objectionable content (the lewd scenes in my example)
4: The game must be for mature audiences.
The test attempts to find if the game should have 1st Amendment protection. If a game fails the test, it means it shouldn't be defended.
Amen my man, they combine all the best forms of art, visual, story, music and add interactivity. They are like movies, except interactive, and better (Well most of the time, WE'RE LOOKING AT YOU BIG RIGS OVER THE ROAD RACING). I know I kinda just repeated what you said but, well you said it all :P.
hasn't this episode already been on?
I agree with you 150%, and with whoever you quoted in the end (I'll definetely be looking that up).
games with murder are usually rated M. it is the parents fault for missing that, retailers are also supposed to ask *if child was with them possibly never seen in other case* "you do know this game is rated mature?" to which my parents always responded yes because they saw that these games were not harming me, but they did not hesitate if they started affecting my life to take all my good stuff away.
i played games since i was 5, i have no intentions of murder, rape, or any vile act you think of
During this I was just occasionally thinking:
"He has claw hands....."
If only we had watched some of these videos week 1 of our 10 week game production class....
Let's show the court the Extra Credits episode on Narrative in Mechanics (the Missile Command episode.) End of Argument.
Wouldn't matter. They already ruled that games are legally art, and possess 1st Amendment rights and protection.