I don't think anyone got mad, per-se, at Saving Private Ryan, but I know there were several war veterans who went to see it and couldn't bear to watch it all because it was so realistic. That said, to say games will never get that realistic is rather short-sighted. Just look at the progress over the past 20 years, and imagine the progress in the NEXT 20 years. Games are a medium that can go so much further than they have so far, and can stand to be much more immersive than they are already. Whilst not strictly home console sort of thing, I could totally see a future where you put on a nanofibre suit and play in a simulated arena... think holodeck from Star Trek - that's the future of gaming to me (though that's likely very far off, hah).
They should have said "This game isn't, at its core, to honor those who have fallen, though it is to a degree. It is to inform people of how it TRULY is to be at war. Like a reenactment, but far far closer to the truth."
Riley Vandewater Maybe, but you might be surprised how easy it is to come up with a better response in hindsight, or even just as a spectator. When you've got that camera on you and you're being broadcast live nationwide, that's a lot of pressure, and it's easy to fall short when the big questions come your way; even if you could tackle them easily under better circumstances.
sk8rdman Oh no, I completely empathize with that fact, but that's exactly what publicists get paid for; saying pretty works when under fire, not only surviving but thriving under pressure, feeding eloquence to the designated public face. Plus it's not like fielding that sort of crap from these people - FOX *and* the "protestors" - should have felt completely out of left field, all things being considered. A contingent reply should have been prepared in the event that that type of question came up.
And when the reporter asked that big question about people having lost their lives there, i would have said: So what? Same goes for World War 2, and there's plenty of games about World War 2.
"New video game shows full digital nudity and sex". Paintings do that, movies do that, music expresses sexuality. All the other mediums do that. They also depict violence, drugs, abuse, and so many other negative stuff, just like video games. But they also show the creativity and beauty of the human mind. Games have the added benefit of being an interactive medium, and even with the possibility of stirring up human emotions why is there such an outcry that video games have nudity present within them? I'm guess these people are also disgusted to look in the mirror before taking a shower. ( If they even have the courage to rub the dirt off)
Gotta love how objective and fair Fox News is. "You lost your son in Fallujah. How do you feel about this game being made?" "Well, it's complicated. I don't want my son to be in there, but also, I want my son to be in there." "You heard it from us first! Atomic Games forces mothers to watch their sons die!!!" "You lost your funding? Well, that was obvious, since there are people who don't want that to be made!" "Well..." "Oh, we're all out of time. Atomic Games: Heartless businessmen or just plain terrible people? You decide!" Anyone else getting a Donny Vermillion feeling from that?
+Don Korb That last part though Reporter: Well You knew you were going to get backlash, since people DIED that day Rep: Ehh- Reporter: ANYWAY WERE OUTTA TIME GOTTA GO BYE! Rep: (mumbles in shock of being cut off)
+Don Korb That last part though Reporter: Well You knew you were going to get backlash, since people DIED that day Rep: Ehh- Reporter: ANYWAY WERE OUTTA TIME GOTTA GO BYE! Rep: (mumbles in shock of being cut off)
i feel that what ExtraCredits really wanted to say was: "Konami, You guys are great, BUT YOU FUCKED IT UP FOR THE MEDIUM HERE" Konami is a great force in our medium, they just weren't smart and brave enough to make that game happen. But i don't blame them that much... (For this)
the company was discovered to use nearly abusive practices on their employees, along with several questionable other business decisions that have dragged their beloved franchise's names through the mud
I think the reason why people have problems with videogames being about sensitive topics is the simple fact that they're interactive. When you watch a movie, you're learning about the experience itself - an outside view into a very controversial topic. When you play a game, you're experiencing it. You're a part of it. You're shaping the actions that took place in it. Sex and drugs are fairly easy to talk about. Just look at modern sitcoms and reality shows. But when it shows up in a game. When it becomes a part in the game where your character is drinking, or smoking, or doing cocaine, or shooting cops, it's something else entirely. It's not observing it happen, it's making it happen. It's doing it. Actively participating. Now, to be honest... I think people should just get over this fact and look as a game as something to really understand the horrors of war, rather than just observing it and seeing acted emotion. It's better to be playing a realistic game, where you're stuck in a trench when the mustard gas starts pouring in, and your best friend has a hole in his mask. Why is it better? Because then you understand that war *sucks*, and there's nothing glorious about it. People are just afraid of what's real. They would rather deny that reality is around them, and they refuse to believe that their little world isn't the only one there is. Games don't need to grow up. People do.
I agree with your last paragraph, most of us ARE afraid. To experience something as raw as these topics go can be quite mentally jarring for most people. Especially the ones who have a social/work life in one form or other. For most, it's straining and terrifying to really think about these ideas, turning them around in one's head and forming opinions that contradict popular thought. Although as a participant, it can be difficult to realize that a game is only a simulation of the event. Regardless of the act and the emotions from committing it Without getting side-tracked, there's a good reason why ancient Athens told Socrates to go kill himself. Another decent example in recent literature comes from Dmitry Glukhovsky's Metro 2033, where a population of survivors of nuclear holocaust lose their minds and attack a mutant race of humanoids called 'the dark ones' whenever they get near. Where in fact these dark ones were trying to communicate peace through telepathy with the survivors. Because the thought of having a more credible understanding that puts in doubt previous held values which makes it terrifying.
Sooo, to respect the assumed wishes of dead soldiers that can't be asked or speak for themselves any more, the explicitly articulated wishes of surviving soldiers are ignored? Is it just me or does that make no sense at all?
+FireHunter258 Welcome to FOX News. ._. I live in FL. CENTRAL FL. The hive of Republican old people who believe that Islam and black people are the root of all evil. The amount of white old people that support white power (and I am white btw) is astonishing. A majority of these elderly Republicans are also gay bashers and people of that nature. Florida is full of so much hate. I too, have hate. I am intolerant of their intolerance.
Paturo Ramirez I don't hate Florida, but there are many aspects I dislike, such as the state's policies on education. It upsets me that children such as myself are not receiving any Sex Ed classes. I want more options for my classes as well. I'm in eleventh grade and taking five college classes. I have an AP class on top of that (APUSH), AND what's called an academy class known as Health Science I. It's stressful, but if I had a block schedule life would be so much easier with the classes I take, but Florida law requires that my class schedule operates in a certain way because I am both a high school student and a college student. Grrr! Sorry for venting -.-
+Avery Misterka So movies are cinema, books are literature, and video games are interactive media? I love it. It perfectly sums up what video games are as a media and as an art. I will now attempt to coin this phrase.
Yes, I really like this term. It describes the medium even better than "video game" does, since not all interactive media _are_ "games" in the traditional sense. Many are more like films-some are hardly interactive at all. It really is like "graphic novel" in that sense, since "comic" originally just meant "funny". All in all, I won't be surprised if this is what we end up calling video games a decade or so from now.
We can't allow a game like Six days to exist but Call of Duty is allowed because why? because it doesn't pinpoint a single war to focus on? because it doesn't teach anything about certain wars? Why doesn't call of duty get this outta headline? because it makes billions and this a small studio you can crush?
I hate the game stereotype that "Playing 'Muder Simulator' video games encourages you to go on a killing spree." I know there are some exceptions and incidents, but to me, that's straight up bullshit. I've been playing games like Mortal Kombat, FPS's, Saints Row, Oblivion, The list goes on and on for as long as I can remember and not once have I ever felt the urge to kill because of them. In fact, I think those games eliminated the urge to kill in me. I know if I didn't have those games to fall back on whenever I was stressed, I may have killed someone.
K MT more than stress reliavers shows you whats the wrong in killing. i know after you kill the bad boy you feel like a winner, but some times you come to one part in witch you say "this man suffer because he's able to kill, he had kill, even for his life" what makes you reliaze killing it's only a way to ignore the pain one bears, but ultimately brough you to one deeper pain, of course all character send being badass, but tell me, who wants to be like Max payne? the poor man has lose everything. and he's able to kill anything altogheter.
The fact is, there are NO exceptions. In every case that people have claimed videogames as a "cause" for violent behavior, the prosecuted party has already shown very obvious signs of mental instability and violence that, if the parents or family of the accused party would've recognized and acted upon, would've shown a much different "cause" for their behavior. Now I'm not trying to say you're wrong because I totally agree with you, but PLEASE don't say that there are exceptions to this anymore. There isn't and I don't want to give any of our opponents any more fake ammo. Alright? Alright. High-five
I like how they included a grieving mother in the interview to help convince the audience this was bad thing, only to have that mother then agree that the game is a good way to honour her son.
These arguments reminded me of something I read in a book. Basically it says that a good soldier always follows orders, but that doing so isn't an excuse for terrible deeds. EC isn't necessarily being hypocritical. These aren't simple problems they're talking about. You have to either make judgements on a case-by-case basis or rely on broad generalizations. Nothing is black and white.
GallantBlade475 Thank you. Some people fail to understand this point.Some people seem unable to recognize the fact that there really is no artistic merit to porn (Dead or Alive Extreme, Leisure Suit Larry, etc).There is a big difference between controversy against something for being too mature and controversy against something for being STUPID.
Noah Weisbrod Will you two be my best friends? I swear some people can't even name what they're trying to defend anymore, and when they do half the time it's stuff like this. Throw every situation under the same blanket and suddenly _everybody's_ a hypocrite for one reason or another. Obviously nobody's a complete saint, either, but at least EC tries pretty bloody hard :P
This is what I despise so much about the lame-stream media: They don't get that video games can be SO MUCH MORE than just toys. People LEARN MORE through most games than they could in a standard education system, and can exercise creativity as a result of playing and experiencing these adventures. Yet they DEMONIZE WHAT THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND. It's no better than racism or sexism.
First off, that lap dog reporter needs to be FIRED. She did NOTHING except harp on death without UNDERSTANDING what the PURPOSE of this piece was. She harped on it being a "GAME", instead of what it is supposed to be: A LEARNING TOOL. Second, that woman they brought in has NO PLACE to open her mouth. The ONLY purpose for having her there was to back the developer and the marine into a corner. Society needs a reality check.
DARKGORZ Yes, that was definitely the plan with that soldiers mother, but I don't think she had no place to be there in the discussion. That game was meant to be partially about her son and she had a right to voice her opinion about it. The funny thing is, it kind of backfired on them. The woman was not "against the game" like they said at the beginning of the bit, she was clearly on the fence. And when they asked her what she thought about it, she didn't bash on the developer like the news company hoped she was going to. Again, they were ignorant and didn't understand the situation.
I would also like to add that video games can also spark interests in topics that sometimes are not brought up in school. Video games definitely made me go research a lot of different religions. The Smite controversy made me look up Hindu gods and goddesses, and I even asked my friend about it. :3 We BOTH learned something new.
*chuckles* yea, or they are slaves to the parents. :( i remember seeing a list of banned books and some of those books are really great! They discuss morality and peer into the dark side of human beings!..... and parents petitioned to have them banned :/ Lucky for me my school didn't have any books banned. Or at least I think they didn't
But in this clip she didnt attack the game, just expressed good points of doubt. Those that would easily be countered and explained how to solve, if given a chance.
It’s great coming back to these old episodes like this and seeing how far video games have come. We still have a long way to go before we reach the ultimate goal of becoming an art but I know it would’ve meant the world to these guys seeing how much better the games industry is doing now.
That comment the woman made at 5:13 was extremely unprofessional. You can tell by the tone of her voice and the way she said it that she was "taking a jab" at the developers. Oh, Fox News. You never fail to act like idiots.
This is the best video you guys have ever produced. I plan to go into the gaming industry, and, if by the time I start making games this topic isn't settled, that will be my arguement. "Books and movies can talk about horrible times, times of murder, death, and betrayel. But when a game even goes near this topic, they are rejected. War is a tough subject, and when a movie about this is made, everyone is touched by it. But a videogame about it is hated, despised, and even cancelled because of how many people say it's not respecting the dead. People don't realise how much creativity, depth, and storyline even the most basic games can have. I will leave you with this to think about, Live long and prosper." That's what I'll say.
Don't you think that games are fundamentally different from other art forms, because the player is put in the driver's seat? I don't think that means you shouldn't make games that take on these kinds of stories, but I think it's ridiculous to say that games are exactly the same as these other art forms, and should therefore be allowed to cover such grim subject matter.
Rob Mckennie I think being in the 'driver's seat' is what books and movies have been trying to achieve since the beggining of time, and failed. Think of 3D, think of surround audio systems, and then think of the Oculus Rift. If video games in fact allow you to experience the experience more 1st hand than other medium, that only makes it superior, and not something to be scared of. Hmm.. On a second thought, writing that, I was mainly thinking about fantasy games. If it came to a game that is simulating reality... I still stick to my opinion, even though I do agree that it would offend those that are related to this real-life event. So what if they are? Did movies and books never offend anyone? Sometimes, it is necessarry, to talk about important subjects, even if we offend someone, and however wrong that sounds. But whadoIknow ^^
metemer001 I think movies have been trying to immerse you, but they've never been even close to putting the gun in your hand. Again, I don't think any subject should be off limits, just food for thought
I find it really bad that after Six Days being re-announced basically shows that all of this still needs to be said. After 9 years, we still haven't grown at all to accept that games should be accepted in telling real stories.
Coming back to this video in light of their most recent one, and I’m just so heartbroken that the team has become backtracking cowards. This entire video (one of their best) is a freaking lie now...
"Honor" keeps getting repeated. The game isn't a goddamn war memorial. It would have been a wake-up call. A real taste of how war can be. How even the 'winners' are not left unharmed. It is an ugly truth and it needs to be respected. And the woman saying "Actually see my son being killed." well of COURSE that sounds bad. But they're not putting his likeness in the game unless you request it. That's what people fail to understand - it's never going to be made that personal. Unless someone intentionally requests it.
I had to laugh at the reporter that was like: "Yeah, you fought there and saw your buddies die? Meh, whatever. Oooh, that poor woman who wasnt there but lost her son it must be SOOOOOO horrible for you, much worse than actually being in a war" talk about neutral.
We need a game like this to show both sides of the battle. I want to play as the Americans and see how the war felt like, but i also want to play as the Iraq soldiers to see their side of the story. Remember, the Americans are not entirely the "good guys", they went to Iraq for the oil.
sketch2347 And even in Spec Ops the Line the game itself may have never happened. PTS induced tainted memories or experiences and even the possibility that the character is in some sort of Hell or Purgatory. Or it is simply used as a parable to teach the player more than to reveal a story. I have known few people to walk away from that game with the same idea of what really was going on, but all of them were moved by it. Well of those that could stick with it and finish the game.
Soldiers are send to wars for causes they don't understand and reason they don't beliave. our sons will fight the war we brough upon them. "good guy" "bad guy" joke the same Media created to level what we want to hear. poor creatures tought they did a good deed soight that. games change that, sometimes makes you feel like a bad guy. make you realizethe actions and consecuences you brought oiver others, make you more self-aware of each daily act, to even considere violence. while kid's game only empower the "good guy" Vs "Bad guy" Charade.
Considering recent tweets of the current head director, this has aged like raw sewage. I hope you feel proud of yourselves and the current state you lot are.
Extra Credits I thank you for all the hours of joy your channel have brought upon me. I thank you for all the content you have provided over the years. You are a wonderful bunch. You have made me connect deeply with my hobby and understand it many aspects about it and for that I thank you. *Painfully liked the video and unsubscribed*
Oh how I loved you EC, you stood up for our medium, I thought you were a force for good, and would stand up for gaming, however you didn't. You ran in the face of controversy and supported the majority, now offer you one final like as I unsubscribe Thank you for being the ones that taught me to form my own opinion.
+T1GlistenerElf Their news is essentially (imagine what I am about to say in the most southern voice possible): "And then our Lord's son, JESUUUS, rose from the grave!! Also: If it ain't white, it ain't right!" Yeah, this is offensive, but that's because I want it to be.
Cameron B. In all seriousness, there are actually studies showing that people who watch Fox News are less well-informed about current events than those who watch no news at all.
T1GlistenerElf Honestly, I'm not surprised. I was staying at with girlfriend's family in Kentucky and all her family had on was FOX News, and I was disgusted by the amount of bias, lack of research, and pure manipulation that was put into their station. I do not watch the news, but I do research current event on different websites. I do not ever have the intention of returning to a single site as a source of news, because one source of news is silly. They tell you to cite multiple sources for your research papers in school for a reason.
Cameron B. Fox, on the other hand, tells you the opposite; they tell you that they are the only trustworthy source of news, that the rest (i.e. the "mainstream") is immensely biased. They want you to not look to other sources, as that could undermine the narrative given.
What I hated about that news broadcast I s that the newsperson never addressed the fact that that man lost many of his soldiers, probably many of his friends
someone tell me how making a video game about war is any different than making a documentary about it? it's just telling the same story and exposing the same things in a different medium.
It's different than making a documentary because society is still under the belief that serial killers and school shootings only started appearing after video games became more widespread.
Why? Because society is stupid. The majority has no idea "what" games can be and the worst part is that they need to be convinced "wrong" before even considering that they might be actually wrong about it.
I think it's because too many people view video games as simply something like the original Mario of Megaman. Fun games, but certainly not what you'd call cerebral. That being said, much the same was considered about movies in the early days where people declared it was mindless escapism and nothing else, but these days you will find many people who can view many films (especially the ones shown above in the video) as works of art and not merely escapism. That said, I REALLY hate how those Fox News presenters would say "Game" like it was some kind of dirty word laced with spite and thinking that it was going to be something basic that would make a mockery of the soldiers who were there instead of starting an actual dialog and her cut off I'm certain was timed specifically to not give the developer not enough time to speak, much like when they attacked ME.
+Gabriel schwab (BlazeTheStar) Except that we already have examples of that with stuff like Heavy Rain and the visual novel genre. Not that they don't have merit or can't be awesome, it's just that they're set apart from other video games because of various aspects.
... I've never heard of Fallujah, ever. Do we want to *bury* our past!? *coughcough* "Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it." Yes. Let's run, let's bury our past. Let's repeat it. People like that disgust me. People like that are why "War never changes," why World War II happened and even why we fear it happening again. I want to hear stories of our battles and have (non-physical) fights with people around me about their morals and their impacts, their causes, effects and affects. I'm tired of them being buried behind walls of political correctness and cries of "I don't want to remember my son's death! Oh woe is me!" We're better than that. It's about time to prove it.
"War. War never changes." I do not believe that's true. War does change. War changes massively. We fought with sticks once. The native americans fought "wars" out by playing wargames. They understood the concept of a test of strength and didn't go farther. That changed. We fought with gas grenades, three edged foils, and nuclear bombs once. That changed. We will fight with solid metal rods in the future. That changed. War changes. It gets worse.
Pycasne Eesost One thing doesn't change: The only thing humans have gotten consistently better at is finding new, improved, bigger, and better ways to kill each other :/
I don't get all the hate for this video. EC keep doing good work, I'll support you because I like your videos. I want more games like six days to come out, and I want them to immortalize the people that died in those wars and battles.
DubbX767 Oh that's simple. They don't have fans who aren't complete retards. It's gotten so bad I just go through the comments on these old videos looking for trolls and then I block their Google + accounts so I don't have to see the vitriol as much on any of EC's new videos.
CitanulsPumpkin woah buddy! what's with all those negatives? Just say "They have fans who are complete retards." Anyways, yes I agree it has gotten bad, but what I'm confused about is how did they get backlash from the video in question to begin with?
DubbX767 Oh the backlash is simple to understand. As far as the average troll is concerned any group that doesn't help them scream obscenities at feminists is willfully colluding with said feminists to destroy all of gaming. These pricks don't see a difference between Jack Thompson and Anita Sarkeesian, or in some cases think that Jack Thompson is on their side just because he likes to badmouth feminists more than he likes to claim that all games turn children into murderers and rapists. EC has never sided with factions of trolls who believe racist/homophobic Xbox live trash talk is a cornerstone of gaming culture. And because James said some harsh, yet honest, things about that ugly little hashtag on twitter the trolls combed through all the old videos looking for titles about the merits of the medium to claim that EC as a whole has betrayed gaming. The content of the videos does not matter anymore to these animals. None of them give a damn about Six Days in Fallujah. They just want an excuse to claim that Hatred is the greatest example of high art to come out in years and that anyone talking about sexism or discrimination in the present tense is a "whiny SJW who should go back to tumblr."
I think that one reason that games are frowned upon more than other forms of media is because they're new and not many people really know what's going on behind the scenes. For all they know gamemakers are like you said "Toy Makers"
I was in the middle of watching the Academy Awards while eating dinner, and all I could think about was this. Guess what I did the second I was done eating? Turned off the Oscars and watched this, because I'm more of a fan of games than I am of movies. Don't get me wrong, films are great. But games as a whole just appeal more to me because of the vast potential, and the fact that we don't know how much remains untapped. I feel that video games, as an art, have nowhere to go but up. Like this comment if you agree.
what makes me enjoy video games more than movies, is the interactivity, especially if games are open and allow me to make my own decisions. even if the ending is the same no matter what i choose (the walking dead season 1 for example) It's still amazing to have your own way to it, unlike movies which have the beginning, way, and end all preset and has to be followed, games let you branch out more, even if just a bit
Man, you guys are good! I'm with you 100%. We need to take the step to elevate our medium in the public eye, and make people understand that interactivity in art isn't something to be frowned upon.
A typical non-gamer already subconsciously associate the word 'game' and 'play' as being non-serious and kiddy. Games already have an uphill battle at the mere mention even without considering the recent history of games failing miserably trying to tackle such elements. Case in point, my mother cries over tragic scenes in war dramas and movies but just keeps going 'it's just a f-ing' game when I get totally absorbed in the MGS storyline and 'quit being such an addict, pause the game and drink your tea before it gets cold' Such bias
Wow, man. That's sad. I agree with what Extra Credits suggested at 7:00 "I've heard it argued that we need a re-branding, that we need to take on a new title for this medium." I'm so sick of people passing off great, interactive experiences because the medium bears the same title as the far simpler experiences they played 30 years ago: a "game."
In the comments here a lot of people have been debating about the gamer gate issue. I would just like to say that regardless of where you stand on that, extra credits' response to that does not make them hypocrites, and here's why. This was a controversial topic, and they decided where they stood on it and what they thought it might mean for the media, and they stuck by it. I read their declaration and it was very tactful, yet firm and resolute. This is exactly what they said people should do in this video. The topic here wasn't just supporting any controversial cause simply because it was controversial, it was standing firm to your beliefs and not backing down or claiming that the medium isn't important enough to stand up to controversy. They expressed their honest opinions about the issue and stuck by them, doing what they thought was right for gaming on the whole and what they personally felt was right. You don't have to agree with them, and it's okay to argue against their position, but to say that they're hypocrites because they didn't support a movement that they didn't agree with is just flat out untrue.
I didn't know about the whole Fallujah thing before, but damn I'm pissed about it now. This is why as artists we have to hide ugly truths behind fiction, which is hard, because most people can't see past the fiction, and usually they don't even want to because it's terrifying. Here's an example that anyone in America would know: In Home Alone, do you remember the part where Kate McCallister is so ignorant to her son that she forgets about him when leaving the country? Yeah, most people just remember the wacky antics where Kevin out witted the burglars, not that he was forgotten about by his own family. And yes, you may remember it, but it's not the first thing you think of most likely. 6 Days In Fallujah was supposed to be educational, and spread word about what happened there. It would help people like myself who are too young, or have no intention of going into the service understand what war is like, and the brutal nature of it. But when it's diluted with scores and other stats, it's easy for people to miss what things are really about. Hats off to the people who serve in the military, you've got a lot of courage to do what I don't think I ever could. But, as an artist, I'll gladly help you explain things to other people, and I think that's what Atomic Games was trying to do.
The reason people are so quick to pick on video games is BECAUSE they do not stand up for themselves. Like a school-yard bully you just got to tell them to piss off and they'll find someone else to harass!
A massage to those who hate EC's decision to stand against GamerGate : In this video, EC is talking about standing up for the good we do. Six Days in Fallujah is a great game, a respectable one, a game which tells with respect the tale of the soldiers who fought for their country. The controversy was unfounded. That is why we should stand up for that game, and all the other great but controversial games. Now, GamerGate is another topic. Game developer Zoe Quinn released a "bad" game which got"good" reviews (quotation marks because this is not my personal opinion, but that of others). People started harassing her because a rumor said that she had a relationship with a game journalist, Nathan Grayson, in order to have good reviews for her game. These people then formed the GamerGate, fighting against "unfair journalism", whereas the detractors fought against "misogyny and harassment". I think that pretty much sums up the situation. EC chose to stand against the movement for (I believe) two reasons : 1) *The rumor was confirmed false.* Nathan Grayson, the journalist, has not helped in the making of the review about Quinn's game, and the only time he has worked on one of her games was before their relationship began. The rumor was started by Quinn's former boyfriend, Eron Gjoni, most likely as an act of *jealousy*. Thus, the GamerGate movement fought against a non-existing issue, or at least fought against people who had nothing to do with that issue, if it even existed. 2) *GamerGate's methods are unacceptable.* Harassment, misogyny, death threats, those are exactly the kind of behavior we should get rid of. EC even says it in this same episode : "We have to clean up our community. Seriously, it's embarrassing." These ways of actions, even for what you believe to be a good cause, should *never* be used. Quinn had to move to another place, change her phone number, quit her job, because people literally wanted her death. If you want to stand against bad journalism, the stigma associated with gamers, the view the outside world has of us, the media and what they say about games, that's ok. You can, and should totally do that. But harassment and death threats, as well as mindless insults, are not going to help. *TL;DR* : GamerGate's cause was a good one : fighting against unfair journalism and for free speech. Unfortunately, they attacked the *wrong people* (innocents) with *wrong methods* (harassment, insults). That is why I, as well as EC, stood against GamerGate. *Because standing for GamerGate is not standing up for the medium, it's standing up for the misdirected hate and harassment we should get rid of.* It is not honorable, unlike Six Days in Fallujah, which is a honorable game.
MrYosh they already said in in their letter: they are against GamerGate because they don't believe in any movement based on hate, and they perceive GamerGate like a hate-bassed movement (I'm not fully agree with that last stand, but it's their perception)
Yes. They are DEFINITELY going to go out of their way to put YOUR son into the game and make a SPECIFIC scene of him being killed just to make you depressed and angry. Bravo.
Thank you guys so much for making this video. I'm in college for game development and design, and I am using this as a source for a persuasive essay about games as art. You guys are great!
Alright. me and my team are going to discuss about this video. i'll show it to my team. and we'll hopefully create a game with controversy and standing our GODDAMN GROUND
I am not an American but I honestly cannot ignore the magnanimity of the sacrifices that brave men and women like you have made, continue to make and will make for your country. You have my respect. Even though a great opportunity was missed to honor the memory of the brave soldiers at fallujah, I can assure you that their sacrifice was not in vain.
Thank you Extra Credit for showing people what I have believed what this industry can become. I see your day in the far future we're video games will be considered a art form. But in order for that day to come I also believe that you are correct and that we need to stand up as an industry and stand behind our games. I would love to see the day that video games are no longer blamed for every single bad thing that happens just because we play video games. Please continue to make videos so that people who do not know about video games can learn and grow with us as we go along this journey.
"too realistic?" That's a complaint not heard every day.
Ha. Right? No one complained that violent movies got too realistic when they invented color cameras.
DrBeefmaster no one got mad about saving private Ryan
That was realistic as heck and I don't think video games will ever get that realistic!
People said doom was too realistic.
In 20 years theyll be like yeah they thought that was realistic pshh.
I don't think anyone got mad, per-se, at Saving Private Ryan, but I know there were several war veterans who went to see it and couldn't bear to watch it all because it was so realistic.
That said, to say games will never get that realistic is rather short-sighted. Just look at the progress over the past 20 years, and imagine the progress in the NEXT 20 years. Games are a medium that can go so much further than they have so far, and can stand to be much more immersive than they are already.
Whilst not strictly home console sort of thing, I could totally see a future where you put on a nanofibre suit and play in a simulated arena... think holodeck from Star Trek - that's the future of gaming to me (though that's likely very far off, hah).
graphicly realistic maybe. realistic in terms of portraying a likely scenario, maybe not.
The most ironic thing about is is that the idea came from *actual soldiers themselves* yet somehow its disrespectful to them?
loggicc
Boomers have big brains
I agree but was that the opinion of most of the soldiers at the battle?
@@benjaminlong729 I'm not sure if they have been even asked
yeah I dont really get that
They should have said
"This game isn't, at its core, to honor those who have fallen, though it is to a degree.
It is to inform people of how it TRULY is to be at war. Like a reenactment, but far far closer to the truth."
That would have been good. You need to be a publicist, you could have saved this game.
Riley Vandewater thank you xD
Riley Vandewater Maybe, but you might be surprised how easy it is to come up with a better response in hindsight, or even just as a spectator. When you've got that camera on you and you're being broadcast live nationwide, that's a lot of pressure, and it's easy to fall short when the big questions come your way; even if you could tackle them easily under better circumstances.
sk8rdman Oh no, I completely empathize with that fact, but that's exactly what publicists get paid for; saying pretty works when under fire, not only surviving but thriving under pressure, feeding eloquence to the designated public face. Plus it's not like fielding that sort of crap from these people - FOX *and* the "protestors" - should have felt completely out of left field, all things being considered. A contingent reply should have been prepared in the event that that type of question came up.
And when the reporter asked that big question about people having lost their lives there, i would have said: So what? Same goes for World War 2, and there's plenty of games about World War 2.
"New video game shows full digital nudity and sex".
Paintings do that, movies do that, music expresses sexuality. All the other mediums do that. They also depict violence, drugs, abuse, and so many other negative stuff, just like video games. But they also show the creativity and beauty of the human mind.
Games have the added benefit of being an interactive medium, and even with the possibility of stirring up human emotions why is there such an outcry that video games have nudity present within them?
I'm guess these people are also disgusted to look in the mirror before taking a shower. ( If they even have the courage to rub the dirt off)
If grand theft auto makes me psychotic murderer then cooking mama must make me a chef.
No offense but your comment made me chuckle
Games like Sims is too unrealistic. You get a house, a family and a job-
Ace attourney means I can be a professional defence lawyer now?
Yes no bar test to pass!
@@MexiSword objection!!!
What kind of game did gravediggers play as kids???
Gotta love how objective and fair Fox News is.
"You lost your son in Fallujah. How do you feel about this game being made?"
"Well, it's complicated. I don't want my son to be in there, but also, I want my son to be in there."
"You heard it from us first! Atomic Games forces mothers to watch their sons die!!!"
"You lost your funding? Well, that was obvious, since there are people who don't want that to be made!"
"Well..."
"Oh, we're all out of time. Atomic Games: Heartless businessmen or just plain terrible people? You decide!"
Anyone else getting a Donny Vermillion feeling from that?
+Ralf Koneberg fuck the news in general.
+Don Korb That last part though
Reporter: Well You knew you were going to get backlash, since people DIED that day
Rep: Ehh-
Reporter: ANYWAY WERE OUTTA TIME GOTTA GO BYE!
Rep: (mumbles in shock of being cut off)
+Don Korb That last part though
Reporter: Well You knew you were going to get backlash, since people DIED that day
Rep: Ehh-
Reporter: ANYWAY WERE OUTTA TIME GOTTA GO BYE!
Rep: (mumbles in shock of being cut off)
Liam McKinsey Nah m8 it's just spewing BS
+Don Korb (Probably your sarcastic) Have you seen the fox news report on the Nintendo DS?
"Konami, you guys are great." I wonder how much they regretted that three years later
Ikr xD
i feel that what ExtraCredits really wanted to say was:
"Konami, You guys are great, BUT YOU FUCKED IT UP FOR THE MEDIUM HERE"
Konami is a great force in our medium, they just weren't smart and brave enough to make that game happen.
But i don't blame them that much... (For this)
Actually 4 years later, this episode was originally uploaded at extra credits' website in late 2010.
what happned ;-;
the company was discovered to use nearly abusive practices on their employees, along with several questionable other business decisions that have dragged their beloved franchise's names through the mud
Just wanted to come back to this video considering the enormous 180 extra credits just made
"Thanks EA, you set us back further." Isn't that EA's business model now?
Nope. "EA, it was in the game, but we cut out until you give us more money because we hate you."
"EA: challenge everything......... once you pay for all the DLC"
kualajimbo "And the DLC in the DLC. Also for independent online function. Also for breathing."
EA, fuck the consumer, the industry, people not in the industry, and everyone else
6:28
I think the reason why people have problems with videogames being about sensitive topics is the simple fact that they're interactive. When you watch a movie, you're learning about the experience itself - an outside view into a very controversial topic. When you play a game, you're experiencing it. You're a part of it. You're shaping the actions that took place in it.
Sex and drugs are fairly easy to talk about. Just look at modern sitcoms and reality shows. But when it shows up in a game. When it becomes a part in the game where your character is drinking, or smoking, or doing cocaine, or shooting cops, it's something else entirely. It's not observing it happen, it's making it happen. It's doing it. Actively participating.
Now, to be honest... I think people should just get over this fact and look as a game as something to really understand the horrors of war, rather than just observing it and seeing acted emotion. It's better to be playing a realistic game, where you're stuck in a trench when the mustard gas starts pouring in, and your best friend has a hole in his mask. Why is it better? Because then you understand that war *sucks*, and there's nothing glorious about it.
People are just afraid of what's real. They would rather deny that reality is around them, and they refuse to believe that their little world isn't the only one there is. Games don't need to grow up. People do.
I agree with your last paragraph, most of us ARE afraid. To experience something as raw as these topics go can be quite mentally jarring for most people. Especially the ones who have a social/work life in one form or other. For most, it's straining and terrifying to really think about these ideas, turning them around in one's head and forming opinions that contradict popular thought.
Although as a participant, it can be difficult to realize that a game is only a simulation of the event. Regardless of the act and the emotions from committing it
Without getting side-tracked, there's a good reason why ancient Athens told Socrates to go kill himself.
Another decent example in recent literature comes from Dmitry Glukhovsky's Metro 2033, where a population of survivors of nuclear holocaust lose their minds and attack a mutant race of humanoids called 'the dark ones' whenever they get near. Where in fact these dark ones were trying to communicate peace through telepathy with the survivors.
Because the thought of having a more credible understanding that puts in doubt previous held values which makes it terrifying.
Adam Lee Doesn't help that the dark ones method of communication was telepathy, which caused a humans brain to *melt*...
That news broadcast was so B I A S E D .
But it's Fox News! Everyone knows it's "Fair And Balanced!!"
Yep, that's FOX. Everything they do is biased.
Tracy looks like an older version of the reporter
All news media is manipulative garbage.
This kind of news is the kind of people trying to find a demonic meaning to Emojis
This video aged dangerously well.
Its suprising its not secretly deleted even after now
Sooo, to respect the assumed wishes of dead soldiers that can't be asked or speak for themselves any more, the explicitly articulated wishes of surviving soldiers are ignored? Is it just me or does that make no sense at all?
Yep. That's scandals and moral panics for you. They're basically a cheat code to turn off human critical thinking skills.
I like how the reported didn't let him reply when he tried to.
Wooow that blonde woman is forcing her opinion on these guys so much...
+FireHunter258 Welcome to FOX News. ._. I live in FL. CENTRAL FL. The hive of Republican old people who believe that Islam and black people are the root of all evil. The amount of white old people that support white power (and I am white btw) is astonishing. A majority of these elderly Republicans are also gay bashers and people of that nature. Florida is full of so much hate. I too, have hate. I am intolerant of their intolerance.
+Cameron B. Don't hate Florida, Florida is filled with Latinos, who are mostly liberal. I live in central Florida and I am a democrat
Paturo Ramirez I don't hate Florida, but there are many aspects I dislike, such as the state's policies on education. It upsets me that children such as myself are not receiving any Sex Ed classes. I want more options for my classes as well. I'm in eleventh grade and taking five college classes. I have an AP class on top of that (APUSH), AND what's called an academy class known as Health Science I. It's stressful, but if I had a block schedule life would be so much easier with the classes I take, but Florida law requires that my class schedule operates in a certain way because I am both a high school student and a college student. Grrr! Sorry for venting -.-
Cameron B. wait you too, I am also both a high and college student in central florida, lol what are the odds.
Paturo Ramirez How cool! Don't let the stress keep you down! ^w^
Interactive Media. Sounds formal.
+Avery Misterka I buy it!
+Avery Misterka So movies are cinema, books are literature, and video games are interactive media? I love it. It perfectly sums up what video games are as a media and as an art. I will now attempt to coin this phrase.
+asd2526 Me too!
Yes, I really like this term. It describes the medium even better than "video game" does, since not all interactive media _are_ "games" in the traditional sense. Many are more like films-some are hardly interactive at all. It really is like "graphic novel" in that sense, since "comic" originally just meant "funny".
All in all, I won't be surprised if this is what we end up calling video games a decade or so from now.
+Avery Elliot M. yes please
We can't allow a game like Six days to exist but Call of Duty is allowed because why? because it doesn't pinpoint a single war to focus on? because it doesn't teach anything about certain wars? Why doesn't call of duty get this outta headline? because it makes billions and this a small studio you can crush?
I think the big arguement is that even happend recently and was not in good taset to those who died and those they left behind.
I hate the game stereotype that "Playing 'Muder Simulator' video games encourages you to go on a killing spree." I know there are some exceptions and incidents, but to me, that's straight up bullshit. I've been playing games like Mortal Kombat, FPS's, Saints Row, Oblivion, The list goes on and on for as long as I can remember and not once have I ever felt the urge to kill because of them. In fact, I think those games eliminated the urge to kill in me. I know if I didn't have those games to fall back on whenever I was stressed, I may have killed someone.
***** Exactly. They're stress relievers.
K MT more than stress reliavers shows you whats the wrong in killing. i know after you kill the bad boy you feel like a winner, but some times you come to one part in witch you say "this man suffer because he's able to kill, he had kill, even for his life" what makes you reliaze killing it's only a way to ignore the pain one bears, but ultimately brough you to one deeper pain, of course all character send being badass, but tell me, who wants to be like Max payne? the poor man has lose everything. and he's able to kill anything altogheter.
The fact is, there are NO exceptions. In every case that people have claimed videogames as a "cause" for violent behavior, the prosecuted party has already shown very obvious signs of mental instability and violence that, if the parents or family of the accused party would've recognized and acted upon, would've shown a much different "cause" for their behavior.
Now I'm not trying to say you're wrong because I totally agree with you, but PLEASE don't say that there are exceptions to this anymore. There isn't and I don't want to give any of our opponents any more fake ammo.
Alright? Alright. High-five
DrBeefmaster Thanks for the heads up. I didn't see it that way.
*slaps hand*
I'm not a violent person, but I have Prototype to thank for the ultimate stress reliever.
This surely aged well.
Really did
I like how they included a grieving mother in the interview to help convince the audience this was bad thing, only to have that mother then agree that the game is a good way to honour her son.
These arguments reminded me of something I read in a book. Basically it says that a good soldier always follows orders, but that doing so isn't an excuse for terrible deeds.
EC isn't necessarily being hypocritical. These aren't simple problems they're talking about. You have to either make judgements on a case-by-case basis or rely on broad generalizations. Nothing is black and white.
GallantBlade475 Thank you. Some people fail to understand this point.Some people seem unable to recognize the fact that there really is no artistic merit to porn (Dead or Alive Extreme, Leisure Suit Larry, etc).There is a big difference between controversy against something for being too mature and controversy against something for being STUPID.
Noah Weisbrod Will you two be my best friends? I swear some people can't even name what they're trying to defend anymore, and when they do half the time it's stuff like this. Throw every situation under the same blanket and suddenly _everybody's_ a hypocrite for one reason or another. Obviously nobody's a complete saint, either, but at least EC tries pretty bloody hard :P
DragoniteSpam haha thanks.
I've heard that in the military, you can either do good, or you can do well. Sometimes you can do both. Others it's the lesser of two evils.
This is what I despise so much about the lame-stream media: They don't get that video games can be SO MUCH MORE than just toys. People LEARN MORE through most games than they could in a standard education system, and can exercise creativity as a result of playing and experiencing these adventures.
Yet they DEMONIZE WHAT THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND. It's no better than racism or sexism.
First off, that lap dog reporter needs to be FIRED. She did NOTHING except harp on death without UNDERSTANDING what the PURPOSE of this piece was. She harped on it being a "GAME", instead of what it is supposed to be: A LEARNING TOOL.
Second, that woman they brought in has NO PLACE to open her mouth. The ONLY purpose for having her there was to back the developer and the marine into a corner.
Society needs a reality check.
DARKGORZ Yes, that was definitely the plan with that soldiers mother, but I don't think she had no place to be there in the discussion. That game was meant to be partially about her son and she had a right to voice her opinion about it. The funny thing is, it kind of backfired on them. The woman was not "against the game" like they said at the beginning of the bit, she was clearly on the fence. And when they asked her what she thought about it, she didn't bash on the developer like the news company hoped she was going to.
Again, they were ignorant and didn't understand the situation.
I would also like to add that video games can also spark interests in topics that sometimes are not brought up in school.
Video games definitely made me go research a lot of different religions. The Smite controversy made me look up Hindu gods and goddesses, and I even asked my friend about it. :3 We BOTH learned something new.
blahhee Thing is, the school system would rather keep us complacent and stupid.
*chuckles* yea, or they are slaves to the parents. :( i remember seeing a list of banned books and some of those books are really great! They discuss morality and peer into the dark side of human beings!..... and parents petitioned to have them banned :/ Lucky for me my school didn't have any books banned. Or at least I think they didn't
This is the reason why I love extra credits at least back then
Honour the people the once were by unsubbing and adblocking the abomination they've become.
Its creepy how happy the old lady looks to be on that news show, talking bout her sons death.
It looked like she was happy that she was on tv, the death of her son was just sideshow
But in this clip she didnt attack the game, just expressed good points of doubt. Those that would easily be countered and explained how to solve, if given a chance.
7PlayingWithFire7 but that chance was never given
It’s great coming back to these old episodes like this and seeing how far video games have come. We still have a long way to go before we reach the ultimate goal of becoming an art but I know it would’ve meant the world to these guys seeing how much better the games industry is doing now.
That comment the woman made at 5:13 was extremely unprofessional. You can tell by the tone of her voice and the way she said it that she was "taking a jab" at the developers. Oh, Fox News. You never fail to act like idiots.
God damn it Fox. God damn it Konami. If the soldiers from Fallujah requested that this game be made, who are you to call it disrespectful?
This is the best video you guys have ever produced. I plan to go into the gaming industry, and, if by the time I start making games this topic isn't settled, that will be my arguement.
"Books and movies can talk about horrible times, times of murder, death, and betrayel. But when a game even goes near this topic, they are rejected. War is a tough subject, and when a movie about this is made, everyone is touched by it. But a videogame about it is hated, despised, and even cancelled because of how many people say it's not respecting the dead. People don't realise how much creativity, depth, and storyline even the most basic games can have. I will leave you with this to think about, Live long and prosper."
That's what I'll say.
Don't you think that games are fundamentally different from other art forms, because the player is put in the driver's seat? I don't think that means you shouldn't make games that take on these kinds of stories, but I think it's ridiculous to say that games are exactly the same as these other art forms, and should therefore be allowed to cover such grim subject matter.
Rob Mckennie I think being in the 'driver's seat' is what books and movies have been trying to achieve since the beggining of time, and failed. Think of 3D, think of surround audio systems, and then think of the Oculus Rift. If video games in fact allow you to experience the experience more 1st hand than other medium, that only makes it superior, and not something to be scared of.
Hmm.. On a second thought, writing that, I was mainly thinking about fantasy games. If it came to a game that is simulating reality... I still stick to my opinion, even though I do agree that it would offend those that are related to this real-life event. So what if they are? Did movies and books never offend anyone? Sometimes, it is necessarry, to talk about important subjects, even if we offend someone, and however wrong that sounds.
But whadoIknow ^^
metemer001 I think movies have been trying to immerse you, but they've never been even close to putting the gun in your hand. Again, I don't think any subject should be off limits, just food for thought
Deep, man...
Agreed 100% dude. What makes video games so different from movies and tv-shows and books other than the fact that One is interact-able?
I find it really bad that after Six Days being re-announced basically shows that all of this still needs to be said. After 9 years, we still haven't grown at all to accept that games should be accepted in telling real stories.
they sign a petition to ban the game. EC are a joke.
Coming back to this video in light of their most recent one, and I’m just so heartbroken that the team has become backtracking cowards. This entire video (one of their best) is a freaking lie now...
Which video are you referring to. I missed it.
@@suomynona4051they might be talking about the WW2 vid with the new host
God looking seeing this video after watching their newest one makes me think "Where did they go wrong?"
We spent so much time teaching our children to beware of camps that we forgot to tell them about Gulags.
How so? What changed (aside from art style)
@@IAmPancakeEC supposedly is against the game now because of Arabs being disrespected which is dumb, and that’s coming from me (an Arab)
6 days in Falujah is finally getting made. Support its release!
it's been a damn long time coming!
"Honor" keeps getting repeated. The game isn't a goddamn war memorial. It would have been a wake-up call. A real taste of how war can be. How even the 'winners' are not left unharmed. It is an ugly truth and it needs to be respected. And the woman saying "Actually see my son being killed." well of COURSE that sounds bad. But they're not putting his likeness in the game unless you request it. That's what people fail to understand - it's never going to be made that personal. Unless someone intentionally requests it.
What ever happened to journalistic neutrality. The didn't even give the poor guy a chance defend himself.
I mean Forrest Gump is a classic and it practically makes fun of the whole Vietnam war.
I had to laugh at the reporter that was like:
"Yeah, you fought there and saw your buddies die? Meh, whatever.
Oooh, that poor woman who wasnt there but lost her son it must be SOOOOOO horrible for you, much worse than actually being in a war"
talk about neutral.
"Konami, You guys are great"
This aged well.
Anyone else here because Six Days in Fallujah is actually releasing?
god damn you..........i wanted to make this comment XD
Fallujah deserves to exist tbh.
ditto
After watching this, I really want to play it
These guys recently signed a petition to ban the game
How quickly they turned around
For real?
I can't wait for the day when games are regarded as art by all people.
If that happens
We need a game like this to show both sides of the battle.
I want to play as the Americans and see how the war felt like, but i also want to play as the Iraq soldiers to see their side of the story. Remember, the Americans are not entirely the "good guys", they went to Iraq for the oil.
sadly all humans involved in every war are just pawns for people to maintain order and control to turn a profit.
That's why we need more people to know about the situation.
i agree totally, Spec Ops the Line is another one, its not so true to actual events but its still one that leaves you thinking about this world.
sketch2347 And even in Spec Ops the Line the game itself may have never happened. PTS induced tainted memories or experiences and even the possibility that the character is in some sort of Hell or Purgatory. Or it is simply used as a parable to teach the player more than to reveal a story. I have known few people to walk away from that game with the same idea of what really was going on, but all of them were moved by it. Well of those that could stick with it and finish the game.
Soldiers are send to wars for causes they don't understand and reason they don't beliave.
our sons will fight the war we brough upon them.
"good guy"
"bad guy"
joke the same Media created to level what we want to hear. poor creatures tought they did a good deed soight that. games change that, sometimes makes you feel like a bad guy. make you realizethe actions and consecuences you brought oiver others, make you more self-aware of each daily act, to even considere violence.
while kid's game only empower the "good guy" Vs "Bad guy" Charade.
More than a decade later, they're back. 6 days in fallujah is slated for release in 2021.
Funny how now as the game is about to be released you have people from Extra Credits calling for its ban because its disrespectful (to Iraqis)
Where are they saying this? I'm catching up
But guys, you don't understand. Fox News is fair and balanced because they *say* they're fair and balanced. What don't you guys get?
That makes no sense
If I said unicorns were real and then I said I was "fair and balanced" that wouldn't make it true
+Sam Benjamin I really hope you're not being serious...
+Juan Zubieta He is joking, don't worry
WoooooOosh 2 years later
Back when Extra Credits used to be good.
Good times.
Unless ur Rockstar. Rockstar loves controversy.
That makes them one of my favorite publishers... they aren't afraid to face it
Right.
The game IS AN honor for every suffering there, I would always support every art honoring all kinds of suffering without hesitating!
And now they're back! Six days in Fallujah released a trailer.
Update: looks like Haywire games picked up Six Days in Fallujah. It's slated for release at the end of this year.
Considering recent tweets of the current head director, this has aged like raw sewage. I hope you feel proud of yourselves and the current state you lot are.
New staff ruined everything really. Those were good times, now... I'd rather pretend EC is dead and buried.
How funny that this video is suddenly important once more.
Self awareness level: -10,000
Extra Credits I thank you for all the hours of joy your channel have brought upon me. I thank you for all the content you have provided over the years. You are a wonderful bunch. You have made me connect deeply with my hobby and understand it many aspects about it and for that I thank you.
*Painfully liked the video and unsubscribed*
"If I may address Konami, You guy's are great..."
Is prob one of the most poorly aged lines from any Extra Credits videos.
Old videos in this channel are gold, love rewatching them every now and then, thank you for your content Extra Credits
"...Konami, you guys are great..."
Ahh, the good old days when you could say that with a straight face.
Oh how I loved you EC, you stood up for our medium, I thought you were a force for good, and would stand up for gaming, however you didn't. You ran in the face of controversy and supported the majority, now offer you one final like as I unsubscribe
Thank you for being the ones that taught me to form my own opinion.
ah i freaking hate blatantly biased reporters like this
especially when they dont even try to hide it lol
Thats the entire media, its not that surprising anymore.
Fox News...Y U NO NEWS?
+T1GlistenerElf Their news is essentially (imagine what I am about to say in the most southern voice possible):
"And then our Lord's son, JESUUUS, rose from the grave!! Also: If it ain't white, it ain't right!"
Yeah, this is offensive, but that's because I want it to be.
Cameron B.
In all seriousness, there are actually studies showing that people who watch Fox News are less well-informed about current events than those who watch no news at all.
T1GlistenerElf Honestly, I'm not surprised. I was staying at with girlfriend's family in Kentucky and all her family had on was FOX News, and I was disgusted by the amount of bias, lack of research, and pure manipulation that was put into their station.
I do not watch the news, but I do research current event on different websites. I do not ever have the intention of returning to a single site as a source of news, because one source of news is silly. They tell you to cite multiple sources for your research papers in school for a reason.
Cameron B.
Fox, on the other hand, tells you the opposite; they tell you that they are the only trustworthy source of news, that the rest (i.e. the "mainstream") is immensely biased. They want you to not look to other sources, as that could undermine the narrative given.
What I hated about that news broadcast I s that the newsperson never addressed the fact that that man lost many of his soldiers, probably many of his friends
someone tell me how making a video game about war is any different than making a documentary about it? it's just telling the same story and exposing the same things in a different medium.
To be fair, some games have slightly unrealistic elements. I would think of it as more akin to a painting.
It's different than making a documentary because society is still under the belief that serial killers and school shootings only started appearing after video games became more widespread.
Why? Because society is stupid. The majority has no idea "what" games can be and the worst part is that they need to be convinced "wrong" before even considering that they might be actually wrong about it.
I think it's because too many people view video games as simply something like the original Mario of Megaman. Fun games, but certainly not what you'd call cerebral. That being said, much the same was considered about movies in the early days where people declared it was mindless escapism and nothing else, but these days you will find many people who can view many films (especially the ones shown above in the video) as works of art and not merely escapism. That said, I REALLY hate how those Fox News presenters would say "Game" like it was some kind of dirty word laced with spite and thinking that it was going to be something basic that would make a mockery of the soldiers who were there instead of starting an actual dialog and her cut off I'm certain was timed specifically to not give the developer not enough time to speak, much like when they attacked ME.
It's probably closer to a fictionalized account than a documentary but, theres so many WII movies nf books...
Who's here after they just announced "Six days in Fallujah" on IGN?
Funny how relevant this is again
possible re-naming to video games: virtual novel, interactive novel, or interactive video
+Gabriel schwab (BlazeTheStar) Except that we already have examples of that with stuff like Heavy Rain and the visual novel genre. Not that they don't have merit or can't be awesome, it's just that they're set apart from other video games because of various aspects.
+Gabriel schwab (BlazeTheStar) interactive story.
good one :) but not all games have a story. like pong
Gabriel schwab But that is the point, pong=video game, portal=interactive storytelling
is the difference between art and High art
+Gabriel schwab (BlazeTheStar) Pong and Tetris have more story than some AAA movies.
And now we have it in our hands finally!!! What a wonderful ending 11 years after this video despite Konami
You became the very thing you swore to destroy
Hardly lol
... I've never heard of Fallujah, ever. Do we want to *bury* our past!?
*coughcough*
"Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it."
Yes. Let's run, let's bury our past.
Let's repeat it.
People like that disgust me. People like that are why "War never changes," why World War II happened and even why we fear it happening again. I want to hear stories of our battles and have (non-physical) fights with people around me about their morals and their impacts, their causes, effects and affects. I'm tired of them being buried behind walls of political correctness and cries of "I don't want to remember my son's death! Oh woe is me!"
We're better than that.
It's about time to prove it.
Inspiring.
0.0
Whoa...put some epic music behind that speech.
"War. War never changes." I do not believe that's true. War does change. War changes massively. We fought with sticks once. The native americans fought "wars" out by playing wargames. They understood the concept of a test of strength and didn't go farther. That changed.
We fought with gas grenades, three edged foils, and nuclear bombs once. That changed.
We will fight with solid metal rods in the future. That changed.
War changes. It gets worse.
Pycasne Eesost
One thing doesn't change: The only thing humans have gotten consistently better at is finding new, improved, bigger, and better ways to kill each other :/
War... war has changed.
Who is watching this video after the "Stop normalizing Nazis" Video?
I do not watch Nazis on youtube.
And to be clear.
Extra Credits = Nazis.
Winter Nightmare official extra credits went woke
@@Roblox2025 weren't Extra credit already Woke before hand
ironically, youtube autoplay bring me back to here after the episode of "Stop Normalizing Nazi".
I don't get all the hate for this video. EC keep doing good work, I'll support you because I like your videos. I want more games like six days to come out, and I want them to immortalize the people that died in those wars and battles.
DubbX767 Some big pro-gamergate guy on youtube did a video response to this.
bboythekidstudios dont get why any pro gamergate guy would still have fans that aren't complete retards...
DubbX767 Oh that's simple. They don't have fans who aren't complete retards. It's gotten so bad I just go through the comments on these old videos looking for trolls and then I block their Google + accounts so I don't have to see the vitriol as much on any of EC's new videos.
CitanulsPumpkin woah buddy! what's with all those negatives? Just say "They have fans who are complete retards." Anyways, yes I agree it has gotten bad, but what I'm confused about is how did they get backlash from the video in question to begin with?
DubbX767 Oh the backlash is simple to understand. As far as the average troll is concerned any group that doesn't help them scream obscenities at feminists is willfully colluding with said feminists to destroy all of gaming.
These pricks don't see a difference between Jack Thompson and Anita Sarkeesian, or in some cases think that Jack Thompson is on their side just because he likes to badmouth feminists more than he likes to claim that all games turn children into murderers and rapists.
EC has never sided with factions of trolls who believe racist/homophobic Xbox live trash talk is a cornerstone of gaming culture. And because James said some harsh, yet honest, things about that ugly little hashtag on twitter the trolls combed through all the old videos looking for titles about the merits of the medium to claim that EC as a whole has betrayed gaming.
The content of the videos does not matter anymore to these animals. None of them give a damn about Six Days in Fallujah. They just want an excuse to claim that Hatred is the greatest example of high art to come out in years and that anyone talking about sexism or discrimination in the present tense is a "whiny SJW who should go back to tumblr."
The Fox interviewer looked very bias «Imagine it is your son who die in this battle...» C'mon...
+Vincent Pellemans If I died in a battle, I would love to be honored in a game.
+T Mack Me too
Meanwhile she just casually mentioned that the advisor for the game lost 13 men.
+Vincent Pellemans The way she said "video game" I knew then that she was bias.
I can honestly say you provide the medium for laughter and thought and I sir salute you.
Facing controversy is what you will be doing today, hypocrites
Well this aged well.
I think that one reason that games are frowned upon more than other forms of media is because they're new and not many people really know what's going on behind the scenes. For all they know gamemakers are like you said "Toy Makers"
James, your speech gave me chills. Very well thought out. Great episode overall, too :)
I was in the middle of watching the Academy Awards while eating dinner, and all I could think about was this. Guess what I did the second I was done eating? Turned off the Oscars and watched this, because I'm more of a fan of games than I am of movies. Don't get me wrong, films are great. But games as a whole just appeal more to me because of the vast potential, and the fact that we don't know how much remains untapped. I feel that video games, as an art, have nowhere to go but up. Like this comment if you agree.
what makes me enjoy video games more than movies, is the interactivity, especially if games are open and allow me to make my own decisions. even if the ending is the same no matter what i choose (the walking dead season 1 for example) It's still amazing to have your own way to it, unlike movies which have the beginning, way, and end all preset and has to be followed, games let you branch out more, even if just a bit
Man, you guys are good! I'm with you 100%. We need to take the step to elevate our medium in the public eye, and make people understand that interactivity in art isn't something to be frowned upon.
Dark times ahead of us....
That one positive statement about Konami is the only quaint thing about this video I noticed.
*MADE IN 2012*
A typical non-gamer already subconsciously associate the word 'game' and 'play' as being non-serious and kiddy. Games already have an uphill battle at the mere mention even without considering the recent history of games failing miserably trying to tackle such elements.
Case in point, my mother cries over tragic scenes in war dramas and movies but just keeps going 'it's just a f-ing' game when I get totally absorbed in the MGS storyline and 'quit being such an addict, pause the game and drink your tea before it gets cold'
Such bias
Wow, man. That's sad. I agree with what Extra Credits suggested at 7:00 "I've heard it argued that we need a re-branding, that we need to take on a new title for this medium." I'm so sick of people passing off great, interactive experiences because the medium bears the same title as the far simpler experiences they played 30 years ago: a "game."
this episode helped me write my first debate paper: Video Games as an Art
In the comments here a lot of people have been debating about the gamer gate issue. I would just like to say that regardless of where you stand on that, extra credits' response to that does not make them hypocrites, and here's why. This was a controversial topic, and they decided where they stood on it and what they thought it might mean for the media, and they stuck by it. I read their declaration and it was very tactful, yet firm and resolute. This is exactly what they said people should do in this video. The topic here wasn't just supporting any controversial cause simply because it was controversial, it was standing firm to your beliefs and not backing down or claiming that the medium isn't important enough to stand up to controversy. They expressed their honest opinions about the issue and stuck by them, doing what they thought was right for gaming on the whole and what they personally felt was right. You don't have to agree with them, and it's okay to argue against their position, but to say that they're hypocrites because they didn't support a movement that they didn't agree with is just flat out untrue.
I come back here when i want to get angry for no reason. Tham that interview really gets me every time
I didn't know about the whole Fallujah thing before, but damn I'm pissed about it now.
This is why as artists we have to hide ugly truths behind fiction, which is hard, because most people can't see past the fiction, and usually they don't even want to because it's terrifying.
Here's an example that anyone in America would know: In Home Alone, do you remember the part where Kate McCallister is so ignorant to her son that she forgets about him when leaving the country? Yeah, most people just remember the wacky antics where Kevin out witted the burglars, not that he was forgotten about by his own family. And yes, you may remember it, but it's not the first thing you think of most likely.
6 Days In Fallujah was supposed to be educational, and spread word about what happened there. It would help people like myself who are too young, or have no intention of going into the service understand what war is like, and the brutal nature of it. But when it's diluted with scores and other stats, it's easy for people to miss what things are really about.
Hats off to the people who serve in the military, you've got a lot of courage to do what I don't think I ever could. But, as an artist, I'll gladly help you explain things to other people, and I think that's what Atomic Games was trying to do.
The reason people are so quick to pick on video games is BECAUSE they do not stand up for themselves. Like a school-yard bully you just got to tell them to piss off and they'll find someone else to harass!
wow isn't this ironic considering their Nazi video
My my, how times have changed...
Almost 9 years later here, Six Days In Fallujah is actually coming back!
A massage to those who hate EC's decision to stand against GamerGate :
In this video, EC is talking about standing up for the good we do. Six Days in Fallujah is a great game, a respectable one, a game which tells with respect the tale of the soldiers who fought for their country. The controversy was unfounded. That is why we should stand up for that game, and all the other great but controversial games.
Now, GamerGate is another topic. Game developer Zoe Quinn released a "bad" game which got"good" reviews (quotation marks because this is not my personal opinion, but that of others). People started harassing her because a rumor said that she had a relationship with a game journalist, Nathan Grayson, in order to have good reviews for her game. These people then formed the GamerGate, fighting against "unfair journalism", whereas the detractors fought against "misogyny and harassment". I think that pretty much sums up the situation. EC chose to stand against the movement for (I believe) two reasons :
1) *The rumor was confirmed false.* Nathan Grayson, the journalist, has not helped in the making of the review about Quinn's game, and the only time he has worked on one of her games was before their relationship began. The rumor was started by Quinn's former boyfriend, Eron Gjoni, most likely as an act of *jealousy*. Thus, the GamerGate movement fought against a non-existing issue, or at least fought against people who had nothing to do with that issue, if it even existed.
2) *GamerGate's methods are unacceptable.* Harassment, misogyny, death threats, those are exactly the kind of behavior we should get rid of. EC even says it in this same episode : "We have to clean up our community. Seriously, it's embarrassing." These ways of actions, even for what you believe to be a good cause, should *never* be used. Quinn had to move to another place, change her phone number, quit her job, because people literally wanted her death.
If you want to stand against bad journalism, the stigma associated with gamers, the view the outside world has of us, the media and what they say about games, that's ok. You can, and should totally do that. But harassment and death threats, as well as mindless insults, are not going to help.
*TL;DR* : GamerGate's cause was a good one : fighting against unfair journalism and for free speech. Unfortunately, they attacked the *wrong people* (innocents) with *wrong methods* (harassment, insults). That is why I, as well as EC, stood against GamerGate. *Because standing for GamerGate is not standing up for the medium, it's standing up for the misdirected hate and harassment we should get rid of.* It is not honorable, unlike Six Days in Fallujah, which is a honorable game.
MrYosh they already said in in their letter: they are against GamerGate because they don't believe in any movement based on hate, and they perceive GamerGate like a hate-bassed movement (I'm not fully agree with that last stand, but it's their perception)
I won't lie- James' speech brought a tear to my eye
You really should have taken your own advice in this video. :/
The last 2-minutes gave me chills. Good work, guys
Practice what you preach
That still doesn't diminish the sacrifices people like you have made. Thank you all.
Saying we shouldn't do video games on war or battles, is like saying we shouldn't do history classes.
This is the most important video Extra Credits has ever made.
Yes. They are DEFINITELY going to go out of their way to put YOUR son into the game and make a SPECIFIC scene of him being killed just to make you depressed and angry. Bravo.
Thank you guys so much for making this video. I'm in college for game development and design, and I am using this as a source for a persuasive essay about games as art. You guys are great!
Alright. me and my team are going to discuss about this video. i'll show it to my team. and we'll hopefully create a game with controversy and standing our GODDAMN GROUND
:) they were scared...
Punk Blooky Make sure you focus on giving the topic the research and respect it deserves rather than shock value
i will
any ideas as to whether or not you guys will continue on, and that I week be able to play it one day?
at the moment... not exactly, but i'm making a game about racism
I am not an American but I honestly cannot ignore the magnanimity of the sacrifices that brave men and women like you have made, continue to make and will make for your country. You have my respect. Even though a great opportunity was missed to honor the memory of the brave soldiers at fallujah, I can assure you that their sacrifice was not in vain.
Our boy Verdante is dead now.
Soygontimus ate him and shat on his grave.
Thank you Extra Credit for showing people what I have believed what this industry can become. I see your day in the far future we're video games will be considered a art form. But in order for that day to come I also believe that you are correct and that we need to stand up as an industry and stand behind our games. I would love to see the day that video games are no longer blamed for every single bad thing that happens just because we play video games. Please continue to make videos so that people who do not know about video games can learn and grow with us as we go along this journey.