Yep! Another super cool project! My pop used to toy around with the idea of trying to rifle a .410 bore shotgun, and shoot cast bullets loaded in the shot shells. He never got around to it and his really nice old H&R single barrel .410 is hanging on the rack and it’s still a great shooting small bore shotgun. That shotgun is a pristine example of old H&R craftsmanship. I’m kinda glad it’s still in that condition.
Yet another amazing display of creativity, knowledge, and skill. Your channel is criminally under viewed. Can’t wait for updates at 100 yards for this one!
Very nice project. I passed on an old Savage 219 in .22 Hornet at my LGS. Went back the next day and it was gone. Bad impulse control timing on my part. I'm now keeping an eye out for an old small-frame H&R .410 to convert to .32 H&R Magnum.
I read a account of some Rhodesian Grey Scouts, the Equestrian unit. Some of them liked a .22 hornet rifle ,as it could be shot one handed and gave no recoil or snap wrist movement,and effect on targets on those short ranges was good, Also Finn Aagaard had one also,and his rifle went on some quite different ways than many other Over here in Europe its popular as insertion barrels in drillings and been quite a good one for that.
A 22 rimfire barrel bore is .223 . A 22 Hornet uses .224 bullets. You may have some pressure problems. The breech looks stout enough, but you may find the primer pockets getting loose after a few reloads. Just a thought.
Not a bad thought either. I was actually planning to check into using the smaller diameter bullets for reloading; if they crimp OK that's what I'll do.
@@mikecarroll3132 There's a lot I don't know. I try things and sometimes it works. This seems to work; there is always variations between manufacturers even in the same caliber. The proof I suppose will be when I see how it performs at longer ranges. I do plan to buy some .221-.222 bullets and use them in reloads, then compare the results with the larger bullets. It will be interesting to find out what if any difference it makes.
When you're making the forestock for this gun, you could make a series of cuts on a table saw, varying in depth, from deep in the center to shallower in the outer edges, and then clean it up with the chisel work. Dan S. from Michigan & Texas
.22 K - hornet is a nice step up if you love reloading and tinkering with load development and testing for velocity and accuracy! Still a great cartridge for its intended purpose! Love the content and quality of the video ! Blessings and best regards to you!
I apploud your honesty and inginuity . Laughed but you are my hero. Heard of people using shot gun actions for rifle conversions with little sucess. Well done , I am subcribed
I like your style of builds. Way cooler than a cookie cutter AR with a 16 in barrel, carbine length gas system, magpul furniture, a lvpo & a light although those certainly have their place too. Linda sounds awesome ordering you reloading equipment
First glad ur safe not hurt . I hate when parts doesn't want to play well with the other parts. Hey parts can we all get along. Geez. 😂. Problem solved , pause then good ole " WAYLON JENNINGS" steps in WRONG. MR. TINKER SIR, i love the channel it always has great content clear and crisp sound. One can tell very quickly ur passionate of ur hobby, or profession. Thank you for taking ur knowledge , time, coins, an effort in making these great videos to share with us. I wish I could do more on my part and send you some coins. At this time I'm pretty much doing paycheck to paycheck type living . But hey we're all still here in pretty good health so yeah I'm not complaining. We're not starving so yes Sir I call it a success to. Nice looking and functioning piece. So stay safe from ur ole hillbilly buddy.
Nice project that gives a new life to an otherwise junk action. Basically, you have created a H&R Handi rifle copy and , since those are not being made anymore, more people should follow your lead!
Try drilling down lengthwise int a 2×4with a paddle bit near the end of the2×4 again kengthwise. Then just saw it along the whole length about halfway center of your hole. It will leave a channel for the barrel down the whole length of the 2x4. This is how i thought about fixing an old air gun
That's actually a great idea, thanks! I've done basically that in metal on smaller projects but it didn't occur to me to scale it up to wood but it makes perfect sense.
Yup, stubbing a single shot shotgun to a rifle is a common way to build a low cost single shot rifle. Ive done several over the years and will probably do a .22 hornet. Oversized and poorly fitted firing pins are the number one problem and can be difficult to correct. I like to use late model H&R shotguns for this reason. I have done .30 carbine, .32 S&W short, .30 Badger and I have a 6.5x55 in the works always a cool little project. Thanks for sharing!
@@tinkertalksguns7289 you should find some good information on it on the cast boollits forum. About 15 years ago when it was impossible to find 22 rimfire, a guy by the name of Ed developed it as a cheap blinker. 38 Special case run into a 30 tokara have dye. Uses very little powder and works well with cast lead bullets. It can be really cheap to shoot if you can find small pistol primers at a reasonable price.
When introduced about 1930 by Winchester, the .22 Hornet had a .223" diameter barrel. This was standard up to the 1970s or 1980s, when the newer rifles began sporting .224" bores. Since you used a fairly recent Ruger barrel, the bore diameter will be .224 inch. The .22 Hornet was used by U.S. military aircrews from World War II to the 1970s. It was first offered in a takedown, bolt action rifle with 5 round magazine and 14" barrel that unscrewed from the action. I believe this was the Model 4. The stock was wire, possibly from the M3 machine gun, that collapsed along the length of the action. The goal was for action with collapsible stock, and detached barrel, to fit in the crew's survival kit. When first used in World War II, the issued ammunition contained 40 gr. softpoint bullets. Though legal for harvesting game for surviving, such ammunition was a violation of the Hague and Geneva Conventions, under the rules of warfare. Aircrews were warned that using softpoint ammunition against enemy combatants would be in violation, and they could lose all protection the conventions gave them, if taken prisoner. At some poiint, probably during World War II, .22 Hornet ammunition with full metal jacket bullets was also issued. Aircrews were sternly warned, during survival training, to use only FMJ bullets against the enemy, and save the softnosed bulleted ammunition for taking down game. In the early 1950s, to increase the versatility of a survival arm, the U.S. military replaced the bolt action, magazine-fed .22 Hornet with a single shot, break open combination gun with one barrel for .22 Hornet and another for .410 shotgun. I had a very good friend who was an Air Force survival instructor from the early 1950s to his retirement in 1973. He taught desert survival around El Paso, Texas; alpine and forest survival in Labrador and Newfoundland, Canada and arctic survival in Greenland. He said the bolt action .22 Hornet was wonderfully accurate, as it came with a very nice Lyman fully adjustable, aperture rear sight. The front sight was from the M1 Carbine, a post with guardian wings on each side. They shot coyotes at up to 200 yards with that sight arrangement and bolt action rifle made by Harrington & Richardson. They also killed many deer and the occasional caribou with a well-placed bullet from the .22 Hornet, which kills way out of proportion to its size. The natives on Greenland were very fond of the .22 Hornet and bought many bolt-actions and single-shots in this caliber. It was used effectively close-up against deer, seals, and even walrus, moose and polar bear. A bullet placed into the eye, head or neck usually did the trick, he said. The small bullet at relatively high velocity pierced the brain or spinal cord. But this combination .22 Hornet/.410 shotgun long gun was woefully inaccurate when it came to the .22 Hornet. It produced groups of 4 or 5 inches at 50 yards, my friend noted. He and other survival instructors were sorry to see the older bolt action .22 Hornet replaced by the single shot, though the 3" .410 aluminum cartridges loaded with No. 6 shot were good on grouse, ptarmigan, rabbits and squirrels. I'd love to see the old, magazine-fed, bolt action survival rifle reintroduced with a longer barrel to make it legal for civilians to own. It would be an effective survival rifle. In stainless steel, it would be even better. The fully adjustable rear peep sight should be retained; adding optics would make it much clumsier to store and carry.
I have a question. Would a breach block on a Win. High Wall need to be case hardened before it is test fired ? It's an original action , remarried by Badger Barrel. I would like to test fire it before the stock is polished. ( proper finish) I want to use smokeless powder. With a approximate 300 grain bullet.
@tinkertalksguns7289 Excuse my lack of clarity. The High Wall I speak of is a 45-70 . The question is should the breach block be case hardened before test firing? As far as I know it is original. ie. Would it be safe for modern cartridges?
Pretty kewl project . I've been thinking very hard on doing a similar barrel stub project utilizing one of the H&R small frame folding shotguns and a .25 cal barrel for a .25-20 wcf. I like the .22 hornet idea. Great video thanks for sharing.
That’s a cool build. Years ago I ran into a gut at the range who had made a similar conversion using a Martini action. This was back in the late 80s when surplus Martinis were easier to find and he had built up three; one in 22 Hornet, one in 30 Carbine, and a third in 44 Mag. I think part of your firing pin auto-eject issue may be related to the size of that firing pin hole. With not enough breech to support the primer it was/is applying more than expected force to the pin. Have you considered Tig welding that up and re-drilling to make it smaller?
Sounds like you need to consider adding a smaller firing pin bushing of steel to surround the firing pin and eliminate the primer back flow. It would do as a nice truck gun. You could even epoxy a nut in the fore end to switch out the wood screw. Nice project.
Yep- going to sleeve the firing pin. I suppose I don't 'need' to, but it niggles at me because it's isn't as good as it ought to be. The fore-end isn't secured by a wood-screw, BTW, it's a 1/4-20 machine screw with a pointy end. It doesn't really need a nut buy in the interest of permanence/durability I've decided I will put in a metal surface inset into the wood for it to bear against. It may fall as much into the category of 'craftsmanship' as much as function but that's not a bad thing.
About your firing pin problem, high-pressure double rifles have firing pins that taper. This is so that when they're pressed flush with the breechface, they also seal behind them, minimizing primer flow/ leakage
I had no idea the 22 Hornet was going defunct. It was fairly popular not too long ago, and every thing I read about it noted that it was quite accurate in darn near every gun that used it. But folks, as usual, were going to the newer faster varmint cartridges to get longer range with less bullet drop. It's also noted as being quieter than those newer sizzlers, which has advantages if you're shooting near homes who might not like big noises. The 22Mag kind of took it's place I guess. For what it is the gun looks good and for sure will be a hoot to shoot. Of course the firing pin hole should be bushed, but if it suits you then that can be skipped, although there might be little slivers of primer cup getting shaved off causing issues with enough use. I wonder about pressures too as most 22 LR runs .222 diameter with centerfires being close to .224, and the twist rate is usually faster with the RF's as well. But if it works then go for it! Crazy as it sounds I've always wondered what the 32 S&W long would do in a rifle. Should be good for larger small game at close ranges and recoil would be nil. Maybe you can conjure up something to try that- it would be as one-of-a-kind as you could get in every way.
I built 3 stubbed single-shot shotguns in small cartridges. .32 S&W short, .30 carbine, and a wildcat called .30 Badger. Eventually, the 32 S&W short will probably become a .32 H&R mag, but it's a hoot to shoot!
Not sure how that would hold up. I've already bored out the firing pin hole and inserted a threaded steel insert which seems to have solved the problem. That's in the follow-up video.
It needs a hand stop of some sort. With that short barrel, easy to let your hand get forward of the muzzle. If you reload, with that enlarged firing pin hole, I would watch the pressures since you are not going to sleeve it.
With what appears to be a tack driver it sounds like it would be worth tightening up the firing pin issue. That is a sweet little carbine and would live between my bed and night stand. Was collecting parts for something like it in 9mm but that is yummy 👍
@@tinkertalksguns7289 .22 Hornet has 43K CUP pressure. Shotguns are proofed to 18K cup. F bolt=P max x A internal. Approx 3.76 tons max pressure on breech. Compared to a 12 ga 3.34 tons. Maybe find some smaller flash holed brass. I'm doing the same with a insert for 45 Colt on Excel/Iver Johnson 1933 single shot soon.
i got an old H&R topper in 22 hornet. When I try factory amo I get primer bulge. Early on in the 22 hornet they went from .223 diameter to .224. Its hard to find but if you find the .223 bullets to reload. That fixed my problem.
try it with a 310 martini conversion very popular in AU ,also into 218b, 222 rimmed ,a 219 zipper based on a 30/30 cartridge ll based on the 310martini action,you need to bush the hole usual practice
Great video and a really neat project. I had always thought the bore and groove diameter was slightly different for a 22LR vs 223/224 center fire cartridges. But I'm probably wrong. But that could possibly explain why you were getting primers blowing out. But I could be wrong
22 LR bullets are 0.223”. 22 Mag, 223 Remington, 22 Hornet are 0.224”. The difference is inconsequential. The radius difference is 0.0005”. I doubt the bullet manufactures can hold that tolerance on mass production lines.
Glad you to hear it was a minor (yet still frightening) injury and youre OK. Staying with a cartridge with a pressure of under 45K in this rather unknown brand of single shot is far better than something of a more modern cartridge producing pressures 50-60K. You can make a good scraper to finish the inside of the barrel cannel with a flat piece of steel (anything 1/16'' to 1/8'' works and you probably have some already) cut into a lollypop shape, Make the rounded area about 1/2'' - 5/8'' in diameter and make the handle length a comfortable length for you to grip. Use a bench grinder to form a slight angle to the face of the rounded area and leave a good burr on it. This will allow you to create a better more smooth finish to the barrel channel.
My .22 Hornet ammo has .224" bullets I'm sure a .22 lr has a smaller bore I do understand shotgun firing pins are larger than rifle firing pins but I believe you may also have too much chamber pressure causing primer flow.
Nice video. Now I know my next project. I have old single shot 12 with a pitted barrel. Just finished converting three old rimfire rifles. To centerfire. Got those shooting. I was looking for a good project . Having hornet brass and a reamer for 25 hornet. I might just do the .25 hornet .
Cool project. Side note. I saw in a magazine recently that I think it was Ruger ?? Don't quite remember. That they were making a 22 hornet revolver now. Maybe that will help with supplies.
If you were ever looking for something to do and make a video on you could get a hold of a chamber adapter for 22 mag or 22 lr and play around with it.
That is a problem, when the firing pin diameter is increased it has a larger area for the pressure to act against. A pierced primer would be a real danger.
How would you fix the firing pin thing exactly? By making the fire pin hole smaller? Also did the gun do that with the 410 ammo before or is is just because the new ammo‘s primer is just a lot smaller than the then it should be for the 410 gun?
Not sure why but shotguns always seem to have large-diameter firing-pins, and it was too big for the small rifle primer. I took the gun apart, bored out the firing-pin hole, threaded it and made an insert for a smaller-diameter firing-pin and locctited it in place and filed if flush, then turned down the firing-pin I had already made to fit the new hole. Works a treat.
You must, for your own safety, Bush the firing pin hole and make the firing pin smaller. I have several Martini and all have to bush the firing pin hole including my K-hornet. I got lucky on the first Martini, that I did not bush the firing pin hole, because I had my safety glasses on.
I don’t understand why there is so many cartridges being developed? The number of cartridges out there is bewildering to say the least. If they stuck to production of existing ammo maybe there would be fewer shortages out there. I can’t envision any new cartridges that don’t have ballistic advantages over existing cartridges.
I have 22 hornet brass, reloading dies and bullet mold. Also a few hundred 45 gr jacket Projectiles. Also use spent .22 for bullet jackets. Have swedging dies for making 22 bullet.
Ok now you have me looking out for similar shotguns to convert to similar single shot rifles. I guess I’ll have to get better at lathe work in the near future.
1:49 if I can figure out how to send you some pics of my 35 Erma that I got for $19.00 I've had to build 4 or 5 parts for it but thats the fun part and the old girl works great
No not exactly to make a 22 Hornet, but I used a 30 ought 6 Springfield barrel to make my 32 Smith & Wesson and various30 caliber barrels to build my 30 carbine and wildcat 30 Badger.
I have a 1903 12ga falling block Hopkins & Allen that i set an rifled adaptor to in 45acp and shoots beautifully. I have an h&r folding .410 to which i will add a .22 hornet adaptor. I am machining out an aluminum block to mount picitinny rail and super glue to the barrel. Thats right. I dont want to drill the barrel and the glue bonds remarkably well. A hundred shots and it still holds. If it falls off just glue it back and sight it in. Yer good to go for another 100+ shots.
You are more than likely causing excess pressure using a rim fire barrel for a center-fire bullet if you measure them there is a difference in the diameter the rim fire is smaller diameter and the hornet is smaller than .223 all I am saying is check your primers and look for pressure signs then get your reloading books out and check the measurements it can't hurt anything and might even save you an eye or someone else
Good thoughts; there is a difference of up to .003" in theory. Since so many people have brought this up I slugged the Ruger barrel and got dead-on .223 so I expect that isn't an issue; sleeving the firing-pin hole eliminated the problem with primer flow. There is a follow-up to this video where I show the sleeve etc.
I have a Stevens SxS 16 gauge that I think would be awesome. If I could somehow do this with It. It would be a less refined mini version of a double rifle. Kinda like what the big game hunter’s used in Africa 1930’s 40’s 50’s.
Tinker, years ago I got the notion to have a 45/70 double and ran across someone who converted 12GA doubles to rifles. Seems I remember one of the step he did was tap an insert to reduce the firing pin diameter for so the primer wouldn’t do what yours is doing. And of course you knew that and stated it by the time the keyboard warrior finished typing🤔🙄… sorry. Like 22 Hornet. Ruger apparently has just introduced a RedHawk in it so maybe just maybe someone will start producing it again! Thanks for sharing!
Tinker, I just looked up the operating pressures of those two cartridges. The .410 (2-1/2”) runs at 12,500 psi, and the .22 Hornet at 49,000. So maybe not too surprising that the firing pin was not restrained when the pressure quadrupled? Glad you are OK, and I admire the ingenuity of cobbling that collection of parts together.
I heard of firing pin holes on old break action shotgun recievers being bushed, then firing pins with smaller diameter business ends being fabricated for them. This route is more complicated as it requires a precision threaded bushing to be inserted, which might be equipped with strategically placed blind holes to allow removal at some point in the future. All of this would require considerable machine set up and holding your tongue while doing the machining. More modern break action shotguns might not suffer from this but that is not the point is it? You want to make something useful out of something old and odd. Good work!
@@tinkertalksguns7289The weak point is the necked down portion of the firing pin. Maybe use manganese steel rod to fashion it? They say you don't need to harden and temper it, which is a plus for a firing pin.
I have a very expensive 22k hornet i built before covid. Im running low on brass and still cant find any. This is not at all good. Im about to start calling all the brass makers to see when they are going to put some out. Im down to 200 rounds and im really getting pissed off.
I wish. My business pays the electric bills; Patreon mostly buys ammo and the occasional inexpensive firearm. At this point most of the financial support for the channel comes out of pocket, but many individuals make contributions to the channel in the form of allowing me to present their firearms, donations of ammo and even firearms. For example people keep giving me sing-shot shotguns to do interesting stuff with. I am blessed with a lot of great people in my life and supporting the channel, but it is more a labor of love (mine and others) than a source of income. I'm OK with that; as long as I can keep doing this it's all good.
OK, my bad. I somehow misread your post. I absolutely did not think you were BSing. For some reason I cannot explain I thought you'd asked if you'd sent me pictures. Why I thought that? Confused with another post, responded to wrong post, I just don't know, but I do NOT doubt what you said. My apologies for that..
@@tinkertalksguns7289 I thank you and appreciate that I didn't mean to come off that way but if I feel that someone is impugning upon my honor and or integrity I don't react well to that I'm 55 years old army 85-93 and am slightly arrogant and most definitely conceited and I do believe that my bent for sarcasm is worse than yours once again I apoligse for the overreaction but I am a man who will not tolerate those kinds of liberties with my name or reputation I would have liked to have been your friend but its hard to get anywhere after a start like that Ken Ross
Yep! Another super cool project!
My pop used to toy around with the idea of trying to rifle a .410 bore shotgun, and shoot cast bullets loaded in the shot shells. He never got around to it and his really nice old H&R single barrel .410 is hanging on the rack and it’s still a great shooting small bore shotgun.
That shotgun is a pristine example of old H&R craftsmanship. I’m kinda glad it’s still in that condition.
They sold at auction what they billed as a Steven’s 410 single shot but I recognized it as a 22 hornet. Got it for $110 , laughed all the way to range
Noice!
Yet another amazing display of creativity, knowledge, and skill. Your channel is criminally under viewed. Can’t wait for updates at 100 yards for this one!
Very nice project. I passed on an old Savage 219 in .22 Hornet at my LGS. Went back the next day and it was gone. Bad impulse control timing on my part.
I'm now keeping an eye out for an old small-frame H&R .410 to convert to .32 H&R Magnum.
We had a mauser bolt action converted into a 12 gauge. I loved that gun, but man it would punch the primers right out of the shell.
How Cool! Just an excellent something to do with an old single barrel shotgun and the hornet is a great varmint gun! Great video!
I read a account of some Rhodesian Grey Scouts, the Equestrian unit. Some of them liked a .22 hornet rifle ,as it could be shot one handed and gave no recoil or snap wrist movement,and effect on targets on those short ranges was good,
Also Finn Aagaard had one also,and his rifle went on some quite different ways than many other
Over here in Europe its popular as insertion barrels in drillings and been quite a good one for that.
This is very a very cool project gun.
A 22 rimfire barrel bore is .223 . A 22 Hornet uses .224 bullets. You may have some pressure problems. The breech looks stout enough, but you may find the primer pockets getting loose after a few reloads. Just a thought.
Not a bad thought either. I was actually planning to check into using the smaller diameter bullets for reloading; if they crimp OK that's what I'll do.
@@tinkertalksguns7289you shouldn't have to crimp a single shot - unless you just want to.
What I'm finding is there is .005" difference in land diameter between the two, with the Hornet having .217" vs. .212" in the Long Rifle!
@@mikecarroll3132 There's a lot I don't know. I try things and sometimes it works. This seems to work; there is always variations between manufacturers even in the same caliber. The proof I suppose will be when I see how it performs at longer ranges. I do plan to buy some .221-.222 bullets and use them in reloads, then compare the results with the larger bullets. It will be interesting to find out what if any difference it makes.
When you're making the forestock for this gun, you could make a series of cuts on a table saw, varying in depth, from deep in the center to shallower in the outer edges, and then clean it up with the chisel work. Dan S. from Michigan & Texas
.22 K - hornet is a nice step up if you love reloading and tinkering with load development and testing for velocity and accuracy! Still a great cartridge for its intended purpose! Love the content and quality of the video ! Blessings and best regards to you!
I apploud your honesty and inginuity . Laughed but you are my hero. Heard of people using shot gun actions for rifle conversions with little sucess. Well done , I am subcribed
I like your style of builds. Way cooler than a cookie cutter AR with a 16 in barrel, carbine length gas system, magpul furniture, a lvpo & a light although those certainly have their place too. Linda sounds awesome ordering you reloading equipment
She really is awesome.
First glad ur safe not hurt .
I hate when parts doesn't want to play well with the other parts.
Hey parts can we all get along. Geez.
😂.
Problem solved , pause then good ole " WAYLON JENNINGS" steps in WRONG.
MR. TINKER SIR, i love the channel it always has great content clear and crisp sound. One can tell very quickly ur passionate of ur hobby, or profession. Thank you for taking ur knowledge , time, coins, an effort in making these great videos to share with us. I wish I could do more on my part and send you some coins. At this time I'm pretty much doing paycheck to paycheck type living . But hey we're all still here in pretty good health so yeah I'm not complaining. We're not starving so yes Sir I call it a success to. Nice looking and functioning piece. So stay safe from ur ole hillbilly buddy.
Nice project that gives a new life to an otherwise junk action.
Basically, you have created a H&R Handi rifle copy and , since those are not being made anymore, more people should follow your lead!
Very cool project. I have a Savage 24 chambered in 22 hornet/12ga. Very accurate and fun.
That Savage is a pretty cool gun!
Try drilling down lengthwise int a 2×4with a paddle bit near the end of the2×4 again kengthwise. Then just saw it along the whole length about halfway center of your hole. It will leave a channel for the barrel down the whole length of the 2x4. This is how i thought about fixing an old air gun
That's actually a great idea, thanks! I've done basically that in metal on smaller projects but it didn't occur to me to scale it up to wood but it makes perfect sense.
Love the 22 Hornt. Had a few H & R;s . Nice job looks good.
This is absolutely awesome
Yup, stubbing a single shot shotgun to a rifle is a common way to build a low cost single shot rifle. Ive done several over the years and will probably do a .22 hornet. Oversized and poorly fitted firing pins are the number one problem and can be difficult to correct. I like to use late model H&R shotguns for this reason. I have done .30 carbine, .32 S&W short, .30 Badger and I have a 6.5x55 in the works always a cool little project. Thanks for sharing!
.30 Badger- hadn't heard of that one. Have to Google it!
@@tinkertalksguns7289 you should find some good information on it on the cast boollits forum. About 15 years ago when it was impossible to find 22 rimfire, a guy by the name of Ed developed it as a cheap blinker. 38 Special case run into a 30 tokara have dye. Uses very little powder and works well with cast lead bullets. It can be really cheap to shoot if you can find small pistol primers at a reasonable price.
Very interesting project. Thank you for sharing. Best Wishes.
Absolutely beautiful!👍🏽😀❤️🇺🇸
When introduced about 1930 by Winchester, the .22 Hornet had a .223" diameter barrel. This was standard up to the 1970s or 1980s, when the newer rifles began sporting .224" bores.
Since you used a fairly recent Ruger barrel, the bore diameter will be .224 inch.
The .22 Hornet was used by U.S. military aircrews from World War II to the 1970s. It was first offered in a takedown, bolt action rifle with 5 round magazine and 14" barrel that unscrewed from the action. I believe this was the Model 4.
The stock was wire, possibly from the M3 machine gun, that collapsed along the length of the action. The goal was for action with collapsible stock, and detached barrel, to fit in the crew's survival kit.
When first used in World War II, the issued ammunition contained 40 gr. softpoint bullets. Though legal for harvesting game for surviving, such ammunition was a violation of the Hague and Geneva Conventions, under the rules of warfare. Aircrews were warned that using softpoint ammunition against enemy combatants would be in violation, and they could lose all protection the conventions gave them, if taken prisoner. At some poiint, probably during World War II, .22 Hornet ammunition with full metal jacket bullets was also issued.
Aircrews were sternly warned, during survival training, to use only FMJ bullets against the enemy, and save the softnosed bulleted ammunition for taking down game.
In the early 1950s, to increase the versatility of a survival arm, the U.S. military replaced the bolt action, magazine-fed .22 Hornet with a single shot, break open combination gun with one barrel for .22 Hornet and another for .410 shotgun.
I had a very good friend who was an Air Force survival instructor from the early 1950s to his retirement in 1973. He taught desert survival around El Paso, Texas; alpine and forest survival in Labrador and Newfoundland, Canada and arctic survival in Greenland. He said the bolt action .22 Hornet was wonderfully accurate, as it came with a very nice Lyman fully adjustable, aperture rear sight. The front sight was from the M1 Carbine, a post with guardian wings on each side. They shot coyotes at up to 200 yards with that sight arrangement and bolt action rifle made by Harrington & Richardson. They also killed many deer and the occasional caribou with a well-placed bullet from the .22 Hornet, which kills way out of proportion to its size.
The natives on Greenland were very fond of the .22 Hornet and bought many bolt-actions and single-shots in this caliber. It was used effectively close-up against deer, seals, and even walrus, moose and polar bear. A bullet placed into the eye, head or neck usually did the trick, he said. The small bullet at relatively high velocity pierced the brain or spinal cord.
But this combination .22 Hornet/.410 shotgun long gun was woefully inaccurate when it came to the .22 Hornet. It produced groups of 4 or 5 inches at 50 yards, my friend noted. He and other survival instructors were sorry to see the older bolt action .22 Hornet replaced by the single shot, though the 3" .410 aluminum cartridges loaded with No. 6 shot were good on grouse, ptarmigan, rabbits and squirrels.
I'd love to see the old, magazine-fed, bolt action survival rifle reintroduced with a longer barrel to make it legal for civilians to own. It would be an effective survival rifle. In stainless steel, it would be even better. The fully adjustable rear peep sight should be retained; adding optics would make it much clumsier to store and carry.
Very cool- thanks for all of the information!
Wow , great information.
I have a question.
Would a breach block on a Win. High Wall need to be case hardened before it is test fired ?
It's an original action , remarried by Badger Barrel.
I would like to test fire it before the stock is polished. ( proper finish)
I want to use smokeless powder. With a approximate 300 grain bullet.
@@thomasharms7452 Wait, a .300gr bullet in a .22 Hornet? Do you mean a .30gr. Bullet?
@tinkertalksguns7289 Excuse my lack of clarity.
The High Wall I speak of is a 45-70 . The question is should the breach block be case hardened before test firing?
As far as I know it is original.
ie. Would it be safe for modern cartridges?
Pretty kewl project . I've been thinking very hard on doing a similar barrel stub project utilizing one of the H&R small frame folding shotguns and a .25 cal barrel for a .25-20 wcf. I like the .22 hornet idea. Great video thanks for sharing.
That’s a cool build. Years ago I ran into a gut at the range who had made a similar conversion using a Martini action. This was back in the late 80s when surplus Martinis were easier to find and he had built up three; one in 22 Hornet, one in 30 Carbine, and a third in 44 Mag.
I think part of your firing pin auto-eject issue may be related to the size of that firing pin hole. With not enough breech to support the primer it was/is applying more than expected force to the pin. Have you considered Tig welding that up and re-drilling to make it smaller?
Yep, that's exactly the problem. Eventually I plan to bore it our and insert a threaded plug with a smaller hole.
Thats what i was goimg to suggest. Drill it out and sleeve it.@tinkertalksguns7289
Sounds like you need to consider adding a smaller firing pin bushing of steel to surround the firing pin and eliminate the primer back flow. It would do as a nice truck gun. You could even epoxy a nut in the fore end to switch out the wood screw. Nice project.
Yep- going to sleeve the firing pin. I suppose I don't 'need' to, but it niggles at me because it's isn't as good as it ought to be. The fore-end isn't secured by a wood-screw, BTW, it's a 1/4-20 machine screw with a pointy end. It doesn't really need a nut buy in the interest of permanence/durability I've decided I will put in a metal surface inset into the wood for it to bear against. It may fall as much into the category of 'craftsmanship' as much as function but that's not a bad thing.
About your firing pin problem, high-pressure double rifles have firing pins that taper. This is so that when they're pressed flush with the breechface, they also seal behind them, minimizing primer flow/ leakage
I had no idea the 22 Hornet was going defunct. It was fairly popular not too long ago, and every thing I read about it noted that it was quite accurate in darn near every gun that used it. But folks, as usual, were going to the newer faster varmint cartridges to get longer range with less bullet drop. It's also noted as being quieter than those newer sizzlers, which has advantages if you're shooting near homes who might not like big noises. The 22Mag kind of took it's place I guess.
For what it is the gun looks good and for sure will be a hoot to shoot. Of course the firing pin hole should be bushed, but if it suits you then that can be skipped, although there might be little slivers of primer cup getting shaved off causing issues with enough use. I wonder about pressures too as most 22 LR runs .222 diameter with centerfires being close to .224, and the twist rate is usually faster with the RF's as well. But if it works then go for it!
Crazy as it sounds I've always wondered what the 32 S&W long would do in a rifle. Should be good for larger small game at close ranges and recoil would be nil. Maybe you can conjure up something to try that- it would be as one-of-a-kind as you could get in every way.
Currently a lot loadings are hard to find.
Excellent points - I believe a bushing of the firing pin and the correct bore diameter would correct the pressure and extruded primers.
@@kerryddepew674 I think Tinker knows that and was trying to get by without doing so. That is literally gunsmithing 101.
I built 3 stubbed single-shot shotguns in small cartridges. .32 S&W short, .30 carbine, and a wildcat called .30 Badger. Eventually, the 32 S&W short will probably become a .32 H&R mag, but it's a hoot to shoot!
Can't you use silver solder to partially obscure that firing pin hole, then "file-to-fit"?
Not sure how that would hold up. I've already bored out the firing pin hole and inserted a threaded steel insert which seems to have solved the problem. That's in the follow-up video.
Very nice
It needs a hand stop of some sort. With that short barrel, easy to let your hand get forward of the muzzle. If you reload, with that enlarged firing pin hole, I would watch the pressures since you are not going to sleeve it.
With what appears to be a tack driver it sounds like it would be worth tightening up the firing pin issue. That is a sweet little carbine and would live between my bed and night stand. Was collecting parts for something like it in 9mm but that is yummy 👍
Bushing the firing pin and reducing it's dia. should fix the primer issues.
It did, thanks!
@@tinkertalksguns7289 .22 Hornet has 43K CUP pressure. Shotguns are proofed to 18K cup. F bolt=P max x A internal. Approx 3.76 tons max pressure on breech. Compared to a 12 ga 3.34 tons. Maybe find some smaller flash holed brass. I'm doing the same with a insert for 45 Colt on Excel/Iver Johnson 1933 single shot soon.
A very cool project gun .
You can buy sleeves for shotguns for different calibers
Are you going to bush the firing pin hole?
Already did. :)
i got an old H&R topper in 22 hornet. When I try factory amo I get primer bulge. Early on in the 22 hornet they went from .223 diameter to .224. Its hard to find but if you find the .223 bullets to reload. That fixed my problem.
try it with a 310 martini conversion very popular in AU ,also into 218b, 222 rimmed ,a 219 zipper based on a 30/30 cartridge ll based on the 310martini action,you need to bush the hole usual practice
Martinis are a bit hard to come by in the US but it sounds cool!
Love the video that would make a great trappers gun.
Try some 556 primers they have a harder cup than standard cci 400
I was considering that very thing! Thanks.
Great video and a really neat project. I had always thought the bore and groove diameter was slightly different for a 22LR vs 223/224 center fire cartridges. But I'm probably wrong. But that could possibly explain why you were getting primers blowing out. But I could be wrong
22 LR bullets are 0.223”. 22 Mag, 223 Remington, 22 Hornet are 0.224”. The difference is inconsequential. The radius difference is 0.0005”. I doubt the bullet manufactures can hold that tolerance on mass production lines.
Glad you to hear it was a minor (yet still frightening) injury and youre OK. Staying with a cartridge with a pressure of under 45K in this rather unknown brand of single shot is far better than something of a more modern cartridge producing pressures 50-60K.
You can make a good scraper to finish the inside of the barrel cannel with a flat piece of steel (anything 1/16'' to 1/8'' works and you probably have some already) cut into a lollypop shape, Make the rounded area about 1/2'' - 5/8'' in diameter and make the handle length a comfortable length for you to grip. Use a bench grinder to form a slight angle to the face of the rounded area and leave a good burr on it. This will allow you to create a better more smooth finish to the barrel channel.
My .22 Hornet ammo has .224" bullets
I'm sure a .22 lr has a smaller bore
I do understand shotgun firing pins are larger than rifle firing pins but I believe you may also have too much chamber pressure causing primer flow.
Nice video. Now I know my next project. I have old single shot 12 with a pitted barrel. Just finished converting three old rimfire rifles. To centerfire. Got those shooting. I was looking for a good project . Having hornet brass and a reamer for 25 hornet. I might just do the .25 hornet .
Looks like a great little project! Have to get back later, thanks for sharing! Blsgs, gg
Thanks- there's a follow-up video too!
Just out of curiosity, if you fire it again, will the pin push the primer back in?
Didn't try it. Have to do that next time.
Cool project. Side note. I saw in a magazine recently that I think it was Ruger ?? Don't quite remember. That they were making a 22 hornet revolver now. Maybe that will help with supplies.
Hey Mike , totally unrelated but have you ever gone down the Katana/Samurai sword making rabbit hole with all the layering and folding and such?
Closest I have come is doing some European-style pattern-welded steel and I haven't done much of that.
@@tinkertalksguns7289 I could see myself getting lost in sword making had I pursued it earlier in life.
If you were ever looking for something to do and make a video on you could get a hold of a chamber adapter for 22 mag or 22 lr and play around with it.
That is a problem, when the firing pin diameter is increased it has a larger area for the pressure to act against. A pierced primer would be a real danger.
Yep. I wound up sleeving the firing-pin hole and making a smaller-diameter firing pin.
Have you considered filling and then redrilling the firing pin hole to better fit the firing pin?
Yes. I am actually going to drill it out and make a threaded insert with a smaller hole.
How would you fix the firing pin thing exactly? By making the fire pin hole smaller? Also did the gun do that with the 410 ammo before or is is just because the new ammo‘s primer is just a lot smaller than the then it should be for the 410 gun?
Not sure why but shotguns always seem to have large-diameter firing-pins, and it was too big for the small rifle primer. I took the gun apart, bored out the firing-pin hole, threaded it and made an insert for a smaller-diameter firing-pin and locctited it in place and filed if flush, then turned down the firing-pin I had already made to fit the new hole. Works a treat.
You must, for your own safety, Bush the firing pin hole and make the firing pin smaller. I have several Martini and all have to bush the firing pin hole including my K-hornet.
I got lucky on the first Martini, that I did not bush the firing pin hole, because I had my safety glasses on.
Yep, I did exactly that. It's covered in the follow-up video.
Irony of ironies: you have to get eastern European ammo for a classic American cartridge. Thanks, US ammo companies. Any new cartridges this week?
That’s capitalism , they do what they think will make the most profit.
And now with the recent sale of Vista Outdoors the majority of the ammo being made is now owned by companies overseas. Remington, Federal, CCI
I don’t understand why there is so many cartridges being developed? The number of cartridges out there is bewildering to say the least. If they stuck to production of existing ammo maybe there would be fewer shortages out there. I can’t envision any new cartridges that don’t have ballistic advantages over existing cartridges.
@@rex8958 Oh really? Sounds like Americans selling out America…nothing more American than that.
1st saw your work on SINGLActions.
Not always my cup of tea but interesting!
I have 22 hornet brass, reloading dies and bullet mold. Also a few hundred 45 gr jacket Projectiles. Also use spent .22 for bullet jackets. Have swedging dies for making 22 bullet.
Cool!
Ok now you have me looking out for similar shotguns to convert to similar single shot rifles. I guess I’ll have to get better at lathe work in the near future.
Starline may have brass for it
You keep talking about table top. I think you rolled a 1 with the first firing pin. :D
Definitely failed the Proficiency roll.
>:D@@tinkertalksguns7289
Is that legal? Unless you cut off but stock? Neat pistol
It's legal as a rifle currently- the barrel is rifled and over 16". I don't know the legality if I had made it into a pistol.
1:49 if I can figure out how to send you some pics of my 35 Erma that I got for $19.00 I've had to build 4 or 5 parts for it but thats the fun part and the old girl works great
I don't believe that you did, but it sounds interesting.
I misread your post- for some weird reason I thought you asked if you had sent me pictures, and I was saying, 'I don't think you did.'
Could this be done with a 30.06 barrel from a remington 770
No not exactly to make a 22 Hornet, but I used a 30 ought 6 Springfield barrel to make my 32 Smith & Wesson and various30 caliber barrels to build my 30 carbine and wildcat 30 Badger.
From stock it's a savage stevens gun..stamped for a diffrent supplier..common to find lots a old singles are..I know as I'm a gun smith.from 1978..
The receiver is kind of a giveaway too.
I have a 1903 12ga falling block Hopkins & Allen that i set an rifled adaptor to in 45acp and shoots beautifully. I have an h&r folding .410 to which i will add a .22 hornet adaptor. I am machining out an aluminum block to mount picitinny rail and super glue to the barrel. Thats right. I dont want to drill the barrel and the glue bonds remarkably well. A hundred shots and it still holds. If it falls off just glue it back and sight it in. Yer good to go for another 100+ shots.
Drill out the firing pin hole and rebush it drill smaller hole and make pin with a smaller diameter that will end your primer problems.
Already done- there's an update video. 🙂
That is very cool! 🍻
You are more than likely causing excess pressure using a rim fire barrel for a center-fire bullet if you measure them there is a difference in the diameter the rim fire is smaller diameter and the hornet is smaller than .223 all I am saying is check your primers and look for pressure signs then get your reloading books out and check the measurements it can't hurt anything and might even save you an eye or someone else
Good thoughts; there is a difference of up to .003" in theory. Since so many people have brought this up I slugged the Ruger barrel and got dead-on .223 so I expect that isn't an issue; sleeving the firing-pin hole eliminated the problem with primer flow. There is a follow-up to this video where I show the sleeve etc.
Any idea what kind of eye relief you'll be needing with this one?
Nope.
I have a Stevens SxS 16 gauge that I think would be awesome. If I could somehow do this with It. It would be a less refined mini version of a double rifle. Kinda like what the big game hunter’s used in Africa 1930’s 40’s 50’s.
Star line brass for cases in 22 H
Tinker, years ago I got the notion to have a 45/70 double and ran across someone who converted 12GA doubles to rifles. Seems I remember one of the step he did was tap an insert to reduce the firing pin diameter for so the primer wouldn’t do what yours is doing. And of course you knew that and stated it by the time the keyboard warrior finished typing🤔🙄… sorry. Like 22 Hornet. Ruger apparently has just introduced a RedHawk in it so maybe just maybe someone will start producing it again! Thanks for sharing!
Yep. I will sleeve the firing pin hole in exactly that fashion at some point.
And that little rifle rocks and I would love to have it if you want to get rid of it lmk
Tinker, I just looked up the operating pressures of those two cartridges. The .410 (2-1/2”) runs at 12,500 psi, and the .22 Hornet at 49,000. So maybe not too surprising that the firing pin was not restrained when the pressure quadrupled?
Glad you are OK, and I admire the ingenuity of cobbling that collection of parts together.
I heard of firing pin holes on old break action shotgun recievers being bushed, then firing pins with smaller diameter business ends being fabricated for them. This route is more complicated as it requires a precision threaded bushing to be inserted, which might be equipped with strategically placed blind holes to allow removal at some point in the future. All of this would require considerable machine set up and holding your tongue while doing the machining. More modern break action shotguns might not suffer from this but that is not the point is it? You want to make something useful out of something old and odd. Good work!
That's pretty much the plan, but I'm not going to worry about potential removal later.
@@tinkertalksguns7289The weak point is the necked down portion of the firing pin. Maybe use manganese steel rod to fashion it? They say you don't need to harden and temper it, which is a plus for a firing pin.
@@martkbanjoboy8853 I suspect I'll stick with the current firing pin, and I think it actually is a manganese steel.
First 5 minutes are "we'll talk about that later"
Sorry, first 6:30
@@mwilliamshs Yeah, it kinda' is, isn't it? Need to work on that.
Yes Sir 👍🏻 well do this double. 👍🏻
Yes a double. Lol
Just think 🤔 if it was double barrel😮.
Bet it got caught between the cab and bed of a pickup truck. Lol
I have a very expensive 22k hornet i built before covid. Im running low on brass and still cant find any. This is not at all good. Im about to start calling all the brass makers to see when they are going to put some out. Im down to 200 rounds and im really getting pissed off.
I've got about 100 pieces of brass and count myself lucky to have those!
Yeah patreon pays your electric bill
I wish. My business pays the electric bills; Patreon mostly buys ammo and the occasional inexpensive firearm. At this point most of the financial support for the channel comes out of pocket, but many individuals make contributions to the channel in the form of allowing me to present their firearms, donations of ammo and even firearms. For example people keep giving me sing-shot shotguns to do interesting stuff with. I am blessed with a lot of great people in my life and supporting the channel, but it is more a labor of love (mine and others) than a source of income. I'm OK with that; as long as I can keep doing this it's all good.
Here's a few feed the machine it's ALG dinner comments
fanstastic video,
45 gr bullet 2650 fps, ppu ammo
Thanks!
You know it sucks when someone who knows nothing about you automatically assumes that you are engaging in bullshit without even bothering to check
OK, my bad. I somehow misread your post. I absolutely did not think you were BSing. For some reason I cannot explain I thought you'd asked if you'd sent me pictures. Why I thought that? Confused with another post, responded to wrong post, I just don't know, but I do NOT doubt what you said. My apologies for that..
@@tinkertalksguns7289 I thank you and appreciate that I didn't mean to come off that way but if I feel that someone is impugning upon my honor and or integrity I don't react well to that I'm 55 years old army 85-93 and am slightly arrogant and most definitely conceited and I do believe that my bent for sarcasm is worse than yours once again I apoligse for the overreaction but I am a man who will not tolerate those kinds of liberties with my name or reputation I would have liked to have been your friend but its hard to get anywhere after a start like that
Ken Ross
@@kenross-ne3dk Totally understand. I have much the same reaction to such slights.
22lr is .221 hornet .223.......
You need to oil your gun and keep it smooth alway, keep it wet like your mouth for sometime and it'll work perfectly..
Wtf? Military grade sabot slugs.
I'm on telegram too
Now i got it, the sound when you open your mouth to speak after each world's. At the moment you separate your lips, that sound very uncivilized..😢😢
Do do that, I mean don't make that sound after each world's. Sound Something like kissing on cheek, its very weird and kind of irritating. 😢😢😢
It's not something I can help or I wouldn't do it. Now that I am aware of it I am trying to minimize it, but it's involuntary.