This is a really good take! Honestly the main reason I want 6v6 back is because I want tank combos again, just having the ability to mix and match and combo different ults and abilities opens so many doors for fun even if they're not good competitively. I want to Terrasurge in a Mauga ult, I want to double pull someone with Hog and JQ, image both Hazard and Doomfist diving together.
I also miss tank synergies! That's why I'm so looking forward to the 6v6 tests. Even though the idea of fighting Mauga and Orisa at the same time scares me 😂
This is great until you have the imagine playing against these characters together. What tf am I supposed to do when an Orisa and Mauga are W+M1 with a Brig and Juno keeping them up and buffed? I’f I EVER see that, it’s my time to quit Overwatch 😭 They are gonna have to seriously nerf the tanks to make this work, but I don’t know how good of idea it is to nerf your least popular role.
For real. There are several characters that I think most players would prefer to remain niche picks. Whether they be map specific, or even point specific. Cause they just aren't much fun to play. Hell, that could probably be its own video lol
The best take on OW I’ve seen. You said it best. There are no fixes, only trades. And people think emotionally. I don’t think 6v6 will balance the game, and it’ll probably create problems. But maybe it’s for the better because OW was a better game when it was a broken mess.
I honestly agree with a lot of this video and I’m personally not very happy with the direction of the game, that’s why I stopped playing. Nothing, not even going back to 6v6, will capture this era of OW. I stopped playing as soon as OW2 came out, doesn’t mean the game is bad, it’s just different and not what I payed for.
13:40 In what you said about people wanting the teamplay back, this could be a way for OW to legitinately dofferentiate itself from Rivals, which, (at least from what I can tell) goes really far in the direction of OW2 with solo carry potential, with crazy high damage (multiple two shot heros and flankers/dive have the burst to keep up), hyper mobility, and lack of shields letting players not really need to worry as much about dead weight on their team ad they would've in GOATS
A few things to talk about with your analysis here, speaking as someone who was mid masters during GOATs 1. Bash also dealt 50 damage with a wider angle (IE, MUCH more generous hitbox), AND IT HAD A FIVE SECOND COOLDOWN 2. Rally was also BUGGED so it blocked MORE damage than it should have, so every teammate with rally armor had that armor increase in effectiveness by basically 10-20% 3. Rally only gave Brig a speed boost, not the team 4. Even if you broke through that absurd 600 health shield, it was only on cooldown for THREE SECONDS. Oh yeah, and BASHING DOOM PUNCH AND REIN PIN WOULD STUN THE OTHER TARGET AND LEAVE YOU TOTALLY FINE! 5. I can't tell if it was intended to be mentioned cause I'm stupid, but rally armor was also INFINITE in duration, meaning it only went away when broken 6. Inspire also didn't have a healing penalty for Brig herself, so she was healing 100% of her passive healing for herself if it had to be harder to kill her 7. Bash also stunned for almost a FULL second and rally was CHEAPER 8. Shield health also regenerated faster btw there's just- there's so much
1. Yes, I remember 2. I did not know/remember that 3. I could've sworn it did, but I was dogshit at the time so I easily could've got that wrong lol 4. Forgot about that one! That was a bug too though, right? It got patched relatively quickly so you'd go to the ground with them, iirc 5. I did mention this, yes. 6 - 8. Yes, yes to all. What were they thinking lmao
great take. 5dps on OW was terrible. BUT one time, i got 5 randoms in my lobby and we picked goats. we won like 13 games in a row from mid diamond to masters. This day is the reason i still play overwatch. it feels sooo good when the teams clicks.
This guy has the best take I have probably ever heard. I really hate the notion that either format is going to fix everything, there is always trade offs. Great video, well done!
Great video. Was really entertaining to watch. I wish i was there for Overwatch 1. The Nostalgia is just unmatched but i only played OW 2 since launch and i would do everything to play peak 6v6 / OW. I believe this game can be great ❤
Fantastic take honestly, and such a well produced video! 😊❤ I'm a 6v6 skeptic myself, because I joined in 2018, and my experiences of 6v6 were generally not positive ones. Lots banging heads against a brick wall trying to get through a choke and such making it feel like whatever you do doesn't actually make much difference. For me, 5v5 was (and still is) a breath of fresh air. Seeing the arguments on both sides over the years though, I can certainly see why people loved 6v6 - when your team WAS coordinated, there is nothing that compares to it in 5v5. At least in pub games though, that was a pretty rare thing at least in my personaly experience, which is why 5v5 feels so much better day-to-day for me. With all that said, I have ZERO issue with them testing it out, and I think they SHOULD bring back 6v6 as a seperate (but equal) mode, so that people who prefer that can enjoy that. I wouldn't want to be forced to play 6v6 as someone who prefers to play 5v5. But by that same token, I don't think it's reasonable for us to expect people who prefer 6v6 to be forced to play 5v5 with us. Why have OR, when you can have AND? "But it will split the player base!"
Couldn't have said it better myself. And I think it's important to remember that players like you exist; people who actually like 5v5. And not just because they started playing after OW2, they've experienced both formats and prefer 5v5.
Ty truly for the thought out view on this subject. Instead of the normal scream and assume there is a silver bullet in 6vs6 as if it had no flaws. Secret hot take: I pick Echo mainly so every game I can combo with the tank as they push in with the enemy tank abilities. It feels amazing to copy Zarya and have a Rein on your team. It makes for one majorly OP situation. Shhhh..... don't let people know you can do it even in 5vs5.
this video slammed. I've been feeling a similar level of reactionism in the game i play, and this was very sobering and refreshing. excellent all around, definitely earned a sub. please keep making more of this style.
i actually just woke up and started watching the vid and yeah.. i feel you. i get almost same ow1 vibes sometimes and no role q also made me a support main, because nothing is more painful than 6 dps and 0 self healing features 😭😭😭😭😭
@@PostMeridianOW this is how i became mercy main at first point lol, never could actually touch ana since when she came out my duo friend was picking only her so i stayed mercy main untill very end of ow1. But yeah i am now Ana-Illari main as well. Heck mercy! hehe
Nice! I need to play more Illari. But I've also been trying to get Ana leveled up for the profile banners. I usually queue all roles to get my challenges done and end up tank half the time lol
[ edit: if you value your time just read the tldr/summary below. it’s 4am i rambled a lot] i love how you pointed out just how much GOATS showed you how to “look at” overwatch. i think that was a common thread for a lot of the playerbase. after GOATS, it was very noticeable just how much more “generally more coordinated” overwatch players were. When OW2 was coming out, a lot of creators were giving their long form retrospect on the game. A common thread there was how they would describe the T500 of OW1 Seasons 1-5 as something that was is more akin to Plat or low Diamond in the ending days of OW1. the playerbase learned a lot from the trickle down of knowledge. whether it was done the right way or not remained to be seen, but they were learning concepts 😂🤣 GOATS is my favorite time in the game for a lot of the same reasons. Back in 2020 it was a lot easier to play with a group of people because everyone was home and online. Playing coordinated matches was my peak enjoyment of the game. That said, I still like 5v5 more. My work schedule forces me to be a solo player, that plays long sessions during off-peak hours. Having individual agency is the most important thing to me because i play alone. I know why I like what I like, I know why the 6v6 crowd likes what they like. At the end of the day, it’s just trades. perfect summation. TLDR/Summary-- - Goats made playerbase more coordinated & influenced the playerbase into two groups. Group A: prefers big teamwork -6v6 Group B: prefer the ability to have greater individual impact within teamwork (5v5) - i liked big picture teamwork & enjoyed goats meta, irl job makes it hard to play in groups. i now prefer individual impact over teamwork. - conclusion: imo, 5v5 is the solo player’s dream. majority of players are solo queues. if you look at it like that, it makes sense that blizz has changed the game the way they have.
I have not played ow1 before, I don't know how the game felt back then. But when the king maker mode came out, the games I enjoyed the most had me with a tank duo. I just loved the synergy's between the tanks, like zar and rein or doom and ball. It felt way better than most of my ow2 games. But that's most likely because it was a new game mode. I'm very excited for the 6v6 play test as well as the moth meta ow classic event, I want to play dps doom so baaaaad. I loved watching ow1 zbra doom montages :) and awesome video!
I was busy during the kingmaker test and wasn't able to play it, unfortunately. But I really miss tank synergies! It's funny cause I had finally began to understand tank rotations within a teamfight or the poke phase, and then we got 5v5. That's the main thing I'm looking forward to with 6v6 tests lol
I think most people blame the balance team for most of the problems and the OW1 dev team for the switch to 5v5. I don't think this current dev team gets most of the blame.
I also believe that if this current balance team was in OW1 we wouldn't have changed format. And no, getting steamrolled in OW1 is not worse because you get steamrolled way harder OW2 because of hardcounters and they're more frequent. This wasn't as much of an issue in OW1, since everything was much easier to kill. Prime OW1 almost any ult combos practically wiped teams, while in OW2 the amount of sustain and survivability are much higher making ult combos like nanoblade and grav+anything basically useless. I like 6v6 better but 5v5 is savable in my opinion, the balance team needs some work, great speed, not very good with balance.
I think 6v6 with the overwatch 2 character design would help a lot, would alleviate how much team play is needed to play it. Like rein should be able to keep his pin cancel since it's qol but losing a fire strike is fine and zarya can keep her 2 bubbles. Keep the player choice, I think most people liked the tank combinations and just want those cause as you said in plat most people weren't pulling off goats, most didn't have the coordination for it
Reminiscing about release Brig gave me some serious vietnam flashbacks. In all seriousness, I've only recently been able to play OW2 after not being able to since its launch, and I must say that 6v6 was better. Tank is my preferred role (unfortunately), and it feels like I have way too much responsibility in the team- Zen especially fucks me up, because his discord orb feels way more impactful. I think 6v6 is overall healthier, and in order to prevent stuff like Double Shields, maybe they could introduce a negative passive- if there's 2 shield tanks, their shields' health is only 60-75% of their full health; that way the team can still have two shields, but they are no longer impenetrable walls.
Honestly as someone who plays alot of games that just never get patched and the meta is just what it is the hate for stale metas always baffle me. Something has to be the best so if what is the best is fun keep it that way let's not risk ruining it. In my mind if: A. The mechanics are balanced B. The king or queen of the game (top 1) encourages the game to be played in an postive way. Then the game is a viable competitive experience. This is for instance why folks hated Gotas far more than something like dive because the armour system was mechanically broken and the queen (brig) basically musculed DPS out of the game. Overwatch 2 as a whole very much suffers from the same problems as goats but way worse because of how mechanically broken gigatanks and counterswapping is and most of the top 1's or big meta drivers of the game either perpetuate riskless gameplay (Kiri, Bap, Orisa) or boil the game down into dynamics with very little or binary counterplay (Widow, Mauga). So the reason i perfer 6v6 is that at the very least it has produced multiple versions of the game that meet thoes 2 qualifers to me whilst OW2 simply has not depsite having better balalnce and understnading of what the game is. I guess I just like it more when overwatch was a more swingly polarised game because it led to interesting anti meta compositions and team vs team dynamics when the game was looser and less refined and I love when actual long term player discovery influences meta changes as opposed to artifcial balance patches, perhaps i'm just a contrarian idk. Kinda a rambly directionless mess of a post but that's sorta where my headspace is at.
I think I get what you're saying, and it's a fair take. And the main complaint I remember about goats, from the viewer perspective, was that it was boring to watch. Which makes perfect sense with what you said, you just got into the root cause; armor being a broken mechanic and the comp leaving no room for DPS. It was a show of mental skill by the players (when to go in, ability rotations) more than mechanical skill (flashy dps performances)
In the response from being team diff 6v6. you are getting rolled: "Great just 40 more seconds till the next game." You are the ones rolling:"I'M APPLYING FOR OWL RIGHT NOW"
I was one of the few who loved the goats meta. Yes it was stale but it felt like chess. You stared down you opponent, waiting for them to fuck up and make a mistake. That was the winning condition. Playing it was fun, raw and intense. Alas this wasn't meant to last. I loved brig. She was too overpowered though, but it was the one time us healers can scream back at the dps cunts. Healing has always sucked in ow, you feel helpless and it's thankless. But in goats, i had a blast.
@PostMeridianOW I'm confused with your comment but I suspect it was something to do with the screaming back bit. Might be worded poorly but I meant we could fight back against getting pummeled by dive comps, oftentimes with no peel. If I recall, the seasons coming up to goats grnji and tracers were such a pain and hard to contest
I don’t like how ppl talk abt the team play aspect of 6v6 like it was a fair skill dimension in a game we’ve been playing with randoms for almost a decade (duoing at max) it’s like they’re fetishizing a coin toss. In 2019 i was scrimming goats 2 hours a day and swapping back to ranked for more 2, under 6v6 ranked you’d literally lose because one of their offtank or main tank were just a little more agreeable to play with marginally better cohesion than ur no mic gamer randos, this dimension of the game in ranked was NEVER a “can you team play?” it was without a shadow of a doubt a “will you team play?” Like bruv, say what you will but what i see here it’s a personality test to see who can AGREE to access the teamplay FLOOR first. The fact i was out grinding to craft a good LFT on stinky competitive discords just to BEGGIN to access and work that part of the game with no bulls** consistently says A LOT guys. My prediction is that a lot of ppl just gonna throw combo-less ults like Lebron passing to the ball to Bronny james and quit the game to protect their hair line from the stress
"Will your team play?" Yeah, that's exactly it. And we kinda saw that happen in early Overwatch League too. Seoul Dynasty started off doing great because they were individually just that good. But as the season went on and the other teams started to jell and understand each other better, Seoul went from leading the pack to ending up kinda mid. Not the worst team, but just doing alright (if memory serves). The other teams started working together better than Seoul did, so they fell behind. And I definitely agree with your prediction. Having the importance of teamplay bumped back up to Overwatch 1 levels is going to be a rough adjustment for a lot of newer players lol
Unfortunately I don’t think there would be much to adjust to, just unavoidable frustration at all ranks and skill levels. Seol failing due to lack of team work was fair outcome because all teams played together consistently because it’s pro play obviously but this is absolutely not a fair skill assessment for the ranked environment historically, this is not a matter of “well team work can outwit mechanical skill deal with it” the ranked environment simply won’t give you the tools (people) that would wanna grow with you the same way they would in the overwatch league, Why balance the game like it’s this fairy tale ceremonial version of the game is beyond me
There are plenty of ways they could have ended goats, and the biggest way was insipre. Inspire is so ridiculously over powered that even adter role lock brig still was the best (or maybe second best to baptise) do you know the only time we had enough healing in overwatch to support 3 tanks was? Thats right! When anna nade healed like 100 hp on a 10 second cooldown. And all 3 tanks had ways to heal or take large amounts of damage while waiting for heals (vape, rein sheild, zaryas sheilds and bubbles) so yes goats woiluldve been counterable if big was actually nerfed properly, but all you know about are things that really didnt make her broken. (Rally, 600 hp sheild, health pack sheilds, etc)
8:50 ok here youre wrong "nothing could dethrown GOATs" um...... if they gave brig 10hp and zar 12hp and rein 14 hp and lucio 9 hp........do you think people would still be playing GOATs,,,,,,,how could one miss such a simple calculation,,,,looking forward to your reply. Thank you.
@@PostMeridianOW and what if brig had 10000hp, you gotta draw your own conclusions, do i have to spell it out for you? oh wait, i see youre the author of he video,,,,, nothing could dethrown goats,,,, that is incorrct they could just nerf goats,,,, how can you not understand that? it's very easy to see
@@PostMeridianOW all in all the video is pretty good and you seem really level headed, but a lot of ppl get this wrong, role queue fixed GOATs,,, and so would nerfing the GOATs heroes, how is something so obvious missed by so many, or am I missing something?
Well like I said in a reply to your other comment, they did try to nerf goats and it didn't work. Brig especially got nerf after nerf and, while it did make the the comp less effective overall, it was still the best comp most of the time for most situations. If they'd been more aggressive with the nerfs, maybe it would've worked eventually, but they don't want to be too heavy handed and make the heroes unusable. Which leads me to believe that it wasn't so much the numbers that made goats so strong, but the ability synergies. They would've had to nerf the heroes to the point of being borderline unusable outside of goats (which would've made for some wild pickrates/winrates for non-pro play), or rework their abilities starting with Brig and seeing who needs the next rework after players adapt. If Brig had been launched in her current, reworked, OW2 state, I don't think goats would've happened. But I could be wrong, I haven't paid close attention to the 6v6 workshop modes. For all I know, there's one running the current OW2 patch without role lock and there's a team terrorizing it with 3-3 lol
@@PostMeridianOW your first paragraph is so eggrigiouly wrong, no hate lol if brig had 1hp she'd be a throw pick in GOATs,, if she had 1 million HP she'd be a must pick,,,, so it stands to reason that somewhere in the middle would be a good amount of HP. am i missing something? doesn't this prove that any misbalance is done on purpose? (forget heavy handedness for second)
very good vid I started the game during the first anniversary event played it for years and years had pretty much every single skin on Genji including event legendries when I stopped i was missing only 1 legendary Genji skin from an event and I got them all without buying loot boxes I miss being able to earn everything then when echo came out and updates slowed down I took a break and then overwatch 2 happened and I was nothing but disappointed only interesting part of that game was the new default skins and the idea of PvE the rest was just a ruined game plus I didn't have a pc at the time and didn't remember my battle net account and realized they were charging basically the price of overwatch 1 for like 2 skins I used to own for free so I dropped that garbage excuse for a sequel but would always check in on the game through youtube to see how its doing now we have Marvel rivals an actual good hero shooter to take over I always wished we could get an overwatch like with marvel but gave up on the idea a long time ago but now its here and its great
Yeah, the whole "Overwatch 2 as a sequel with PvE" promise/launch was one of the greatest fumbles of all time. Highly disappointing. I've always been here for just the pvp. Something about the heroes just feels so good for me to play. I'm glad you're enjoying Rivals though! I'm definitely going to try it out at some point. It looks like a lot of fun
Tanks now are at least a little fun to play. It was aids to get screamed at to swap to a barrier tank to pair with the barrier tank that was already on the field. And the fact there was a second tank means tank ults couldn't have quite the impact they do now, or else staggering them back to back would be far too powerful.
I have feel differently, and a never quite found the same fun as a solo tank in ow2. It has its upsides, but as an offtank main back in the day, specifically an offtank Zarya lover, I found much less enjoyment in the tank role. I tried things and experimented, and it lead me to drop tank entirely and become a support main occasionally playing dps. But every open q game, or other opportunity to be an offtank fills me with a differen kind of joy. I am an offtank Zarya main at heart, despite everything that changed in the game, and nothing quite hits the same in ow2. The closest is open q and the recent Kingmaker mode. So i hope 6v6 will be added permanently, even if it is just for quick play, and maybe a rare non permanent ranked gamemode like deathmatch, mystery heroes, and others had.
What gets me is people will complainin about ult centric marco brawl metas and then glaze the goats era like, i guess both can be true but u are also completely dismisive of any new macro meta. I honestly blame this on the pro overwatch production jumping on the hate train instead of explaining why team A is better than team B. Drives me insane hearing people say something is no skill, when the best players and teams are still winning. Or the team thats historically good at a simular meta is good buut nooo its all luck and rng
Yeah, I remember hearing an analyst explaining why goats was so strong and saying something to the effect of "compared to other comps, you can make more mistakes and get away with it." Which I think fed into the "it takes no skill" idea. But if we look at it the other way, everyone is human; mistakes will happen. Maybe a slight miscommunication, or they'll think they see an opportunity to get a kill and end up being wrong. In another comp, they'd die for it. But goats could absorb that mistake and regroup quickly.
@PostMeridianOW I get that line of thinking, but it's true whenever a comp is "meta". Goats might have also been less punishing for minor positioning errors in the neutral, but in terms of ults, these brawl matchups are far more punishing. Simply beucase the closer together a team has to play, the more value ultimates get on avg. Dive vs. counter dive brawl, and the dive team wins in general through ultimates. Same w brawl v brawl. Wasting Juno ult or cage or grav or beat is insane deal because these metas develop around cycling ults not because brawl ults are better but simply beucase brawl teams are weaker to ults. Obviously, my opinion, but I think it's backed up by evidence cos I said it sorry it's 5am and I can't sleep gn. 😀
Hard disagree 14:30. In 5v5 nearly every game is a hard stomp, your so called "hard team diff". It feels so bad, even winning isn't fun. I tested it, played it. Out of my last 25 games 21 of them were hard stomps. I was even winning most of them and still had barely any fun. I played the 6v6 custom mode and even loosing was a blast. It was a fun experience regardless of winning or loosing. There was also no rank queue, we had people of all ranks and still had fair games. Those team diffs you were talking about could happen, but it rarely did. And even then you had a chance to fight back. In 5v5 you win or loose the moment you load into the game, because either you team plays the correct heroes and plays together, or not. Got a one trick Hog on Havana against Sigma? Tough luck, try again next time. There is no outplaying, only correct hero picks. Why would not getting the correct tank in 5v5 feel less frustrating than loosing because of skill in 6v6? I don't get it. 5v5 is not a skill gap most of the time, but a character choice gap.
Wow, that sucks. Sorry your matchmaking has been so shit. Mine's been wonky before, but usually not so consistent like that. It's interesting that you mention needing to have the correct characters to win in 5v5 because I've heard people say the same thing about 6v6. Just that there were more instances in 6v6 of "We picked slightly more meta heroes/synergies than the other team felt like playing, so we just win." In my experience with 5v5, counters still exist of course, but it hasn't felt like there have been as many patches of "you must pick these heroes or you'll lose." Granted, I'm not in gm and never have been so maybe that's the reason for that lol But like I said in the video, I'm not trying to say you're wrong. Just offering my experience so we can share viewpoints and talk about the game. I really appreciate the comment! You actually gave me an idea for something I could flesh out more in a future vid
@@PostMeridianOW It's not bad luck when the matchmaking is shit. It's the format that forces those unbalanced games. Blizzard even admitted to it that there are more one sided games in OW2 than in OW1. I did write a lot more, but it got deleted. If you're interested I could explain a lot more via Discord or something why the core problem is 5v5. Immortalities are also a problem that still needs fixing in 6v6.
Yeah, sure! The link to my Discord server is in the description. If you can't just dm me, send me a friend request and put something in one of the channels so I know who you are lol But yeah, dm me and we'll set something up
This may just be a skill issue, unironically. Your games are stomps because the matchmaking is like, super bad for certain elos. This is mostly because of they made it to where people at widely different elos can queue together. That probably should not have happened, but I know they did it to help boost player retention in comp.
Yeah, I understand the reasoning behind the wide group decision, but I don't think that was a good idea. Usually results in weird matches. That's why my friends and I will stack for quickplay, but usually do comp separate.
When they added role queue, a common sentiment in the community was "well if you'd just balance the game you wouldn't need to add role lock!" Which... maybe there's a discussion to be had about that nowadays, but back then we weren't getting patches nearly as frequently as we do now. And they weren't nearly as aggressive with the changes either. Not saying it would've been impossible, but they had been trying to put GOATs in the ground for months and it hadn't worked. Probably because they were being too gradual with it, trying not to make any heroes unplayable in the process. But eh, there's plenty of debate to be had about the philosophy at the time. Looks like you have quite a few videos about balance though. Which ones should I watch for your best takes? lol
Well if you'll notice, I didn't say OW1 had more steam rolls than OW2. Just that when they did happen, they felt a lot worse. At least from what I remember! I'm thinking of the unbridled fun of getting full held on Anubis, Volskaya, Hanamura, etc. Good stuff! Lol
@ I see, well if I misinterpreted what you said I apologize. But that’s more of a map design issue than a format issue. I think we can all agree that their map design is much better in OW2 than in OW1 because they learned from the maps you just mentioned. I don’t see how it’s fair to blame the format for map design issues tho
@@PostMeridianOW Same feeling i have. Double shield unbreakable choke point holds are my most memorable stomps in ow1, and those were boring and unfun. But now stomps are much more frustrating instead, or thats how i feel.
This is a really good take! Honestly the main reason I want 6v6 back is because I want tank combos again, just having the ability to mix and match and combo different ults and abilities opens so many doors for fun even if they're not good competitively. I want to Terrasurge in a Mauga ult, I want to double pull someone with Hog and JQ, image both Hazard and Doomfist diving together.
I also miss tank synergies! That's why I'm so looking forward to the 6v6 tests. Even though the idea of fighting Mauga and Orisa at the same time scares me 😂
This is great until you have the imagine playing against these characters together. What tf am I supposed to do when an Orisa and Mauga are W+M1 with a Brig and Juno keeping them up and buffed? I’f I EVER see that, it’s my time to quit Overwatch 😭
They are gonna have to seriously nerf the tanks to make this work, but I don’t know how good of idea it is to nerf your least popular role.
For real. There are several characters that I think most players would prefer to remain niche picks. Whether they be map specific, or even point specific. Cause they just aren't much fun to play. Hell, that could probably be its own video lol
The best take on OW I’ve seen. You said it best. There are no fixes, only trades. And people think emotionally. I don’t think 6v6 will balance the game, and it’ll probably create problems. But maybe it’s for the better because OW was a better game when it was a broken mess.
The devs absolutely deserve the ridicule and 6v6 absolutely is the answer
i'm stoned beyond belief and this was an incredible video that brought back a lot of great memories from when i watched the overwatch league
You've bestowed the highest honor on me, thank you
i feel like i got a systematic shock every time a meme from 2018 appeared
yeah, I try to get as many current memes in as I can but I'm basically a boomer at this point so my references are getting dated lmao
Honestly, a really fresh opinion with a lot of hope in the whole 6v6 debacle. Thanks for the video!
I honestly agree with a lot of this video and I’m personally not very happy with the direction of the game, that’s why I stopped playing. Nothing, not even going back to 6v6, will capture this era of OW. I stopped playing as soon as OW2 came out, doesn’t mean the game is bad, it’s just different and not what I payed for.
Hey, that's totally fair. If you're not having fun, you're not having fun. That's what it comes down to at the end of the day.
Really good to see new channels about ow, wish u sucess
13:40 In what you said about people wanting the teamplay back, this could be a way for OW to legitinately dofferentiate itself from Rivals, which, (at least from what I can tell) goes really far in the direction of OW2 with solo carry potential, with crazy high damage (multiple two shot heros and flankers/dive have the burst to keep up), hyper mobility, and lack of shields letting players not really need to worry as much about dead weight on their team ad they would've in GOATS
Great point!
Awesome video man! Super refreshing perspective
Thank you!
This was a great video man, solid takes and laughed my ass off at Brigs shield having 600 hp 😂. You deserve more subs 👏
I didn't get the hate when she got added, but now? Holyyy why 😂
A few things to talk about with your analysis here, speaking as someone who was mid masters during GOATs
1. Bash also dealt 50 damage with a wider angle (IE, MUCH more generous hitbox), AND IT HAD A FIVE SECOND COOLDOWN
2. Rally was also BUGGED so it blocked MORE damage than it should have, so every teammate with rally armor had that armor increase in effectiveness by basically 10-20%
3. Rally only gave Brig a speed boost, not the team
4. Even if you broke through that absurd 600 health shield, it was only on cooldown for THREE SECONDS. Oh yeah, and BASHING DOOM PUNCH AND REIN PIN WOULD STUN THE OTHER TARGET AND LEAVE YOU TOTALLY FINE!
5. I can't tell if it was intended to be mentioned cause I'm stupid, but rally armor was also INFINITE in duration, meaning it only went away when broken
6. Inspire also didn't have a healing penalty for Brig herself, so she was healing 100% of her passive healing for herself if it had to be harder to kill her
7. Bash also stunned for almost a FULL second and rally was CHEAPER
8. Shield health also regenerated faster btw there's just- there's so much
1. Yes, I remember
2. I did not know/remember that
3. I could've sworn it did, but I was dogshit at the time so I easily could've got that wrong lol
4. Forgot about that one! That was a bug too though, right? It got patched relatively quickly so you'd go to the ground with them, iirc
5. I did mention this, yes.
6 - 8. Yes, yes to all. What were they thinking lmao
@@PostMeridianOW idk if 4 was a bug but iirc it wasn't listed as a bug fix in the patch notes it was just an update.
great video!! really liked the jokes added by editing :)
great take. 5dps on OW was terrible. BUT one time, i got 5 randoms in my lobby and we picked goats. we won like 13 games in a row from mid diamond to masters. This day is the reason i still play overwatch. it feels sooo good when the teams clicks.
That's insane! Awesome man, and yeah; those team moments are exactly what I'm playing for.
This guy has the best take I have probably ever heard. I really hate the notion that either format is going to fix everything, there is always trade offs. Great video, well done!
Great video. Was really entertaining to watch. I wish i was there for Overwatch 1. The Nostalgia is just unmatched but i only played OW 2 since launch and i would do everything to play peak 6v6 / OW. I believe this game can be great ❤
Here's hoping the 6v6 tests go well and a permanent mode can make a come back!
@@PostMeridianOW ngl, if the 6v6 mode goes well, they will come back with it.
the propper joke got me x) great vid !
Fantastic take honestly, and such a well produced video! 😊❤ I'm a 6v6 skeptic myself, because I joined in 2018, and my experiences of 6v6 were generally not positive ones. Lots banging heads against a brick wall trying to get through a choke and such making it feel like whatever you do doesn't actually make much difference. For me, 5v5 was (and still is) a breath of fresh air. Seeing the arguments on both sides over the years though, I can certainly see why people loved 6v6 - when your team WAS coordinated, there is nothing that compares to it in 5v5. At least in pub games though, that was a pretty rare thing at least in my personaly experience, which is why 5v5 feels so much better day-to-day for me.
With all that said, I have ZERO issue with them testing it out, and I think they SHOULD bring back 6v6 as a seperate (but equal) mode, so that people who prefer that can enjoy that. I wouldn't want to be forced to play 6v6 as someone who prefers to play 5v5. But by that same token, I don't think it's reasonable for us to expect people who prefer 6v6 to be forced to play 5v5 with us. Why have OR, when you can have AND?
"But it will split the player base!"
Couldn't have said it better myself. And I think it's important to remember that players like you exist; people who actually like 5v5. And not just because they started playing after OW2, they've experienced both formats and prefer 5v5.
Ty truly for the thought out view on this subject. Instead of the normal scream and assume there is a silver bullet in 6vs6 as if it had no flaws.
Secret hot take: I pick Echo mainly so every game I can combo with the tank as they push in with the enemy tank abilities. It feels amazing to copy Zarya and have a Rein on your team. It makes for one majorly OP situation.
Shhhh..... don't let people know you can do it even in 5vs5.
this video slammed. I've been feeling a similar level of reactionism in the game i play, and this was very sobering and refreshing. excellent all around, definitely earned a sub. please keep making more of this style.
Thank you! I'll try 🫡 What's the game you're experiencing this in?
@PostMeridianOW it's a much smaller community, but it's a megaman themed team FPS game
i actually just woke up and started watching the vid and yeah.. i feel you. i get almost same ow1 vibes sometimes and no role q also made me a support main, because nothing is more painful than 6 dps and 0 self healing features 😭😭😭😭😭
You know my pain 😂 On the other hand, that's how I got into playing Ana so... eh 🫡
@@PostMeridianOW this is how i became mercy main at first point lol, never could actually touch ana since when she came out my duo friend was picking only her so i stayed mercy main untill very end of ow1. But yeah i am now Ana-Illari main as well. Heck mercy! hehe
Nice! I need to play more Illari. But I've also been trying to get Ana leveled up for the profile banners. I usually queue all roles to get my challenges done and end up tank half the time lol
[ edit: if you value your time just read the tldr/summary below. it’s 4am i rambled a lot]
i love how you pointed out just how much GOATS showed you how to “look at” overwatch. i think that was a common thread for a lot of the playerbase. after GOATS, it was very noticeable just how much more “generally more coordinated” overwatch players were.
When OW2 was coming out, a lot of creators were giving their long form retrospect on the game. A common thread there was how they would describe the T500 of OW1 Seasons 1-5 as something that was is more akin to Plat or low Diamond in the ending days of OW1.
the playerbase learned a lot from the trickle down of knowledge. whether it was done the right way or not remained to be seen, but they were learning concepts 😂🤣
GOATS is my favorite time in the game for a lot of the same reasons. Back in 2020 it was a lot easier to play with a group of people because everyone was home and online. Playing coordinated matches was my peak enjoyment of the game.
That said, I still like 5v5 more. My work schedule forces me to be a solo player, that plays long sessions during off-peak hours. Having individual agency is the most important thing to me because i play alone. I know why I like what I like, I know why the 6v6 crowd likes what they like. At the end of the day, it’s just trades.
perfect summation.
TLDR/Summary--
- Goats made playerbase more coordinated & influenced the playerbase into two groups.
Group A: prefers big teamwork -6v6
Group B: prefer the ability to have greater individual impact within teamwork (5v5)
- i liked big picture teamwork & enjoyed goats meta, irl job makes it hard to play in groups. i now prefer individual impact over teamwork.
- conclusion: imo, 5v5 is the solo player’s dream. majority of players are solo queues. if you look at it like that, it makes sense that blizz has changed the game the way they have.
I have not played ow1 before, I don't know how the game felt back then. But when the king maker mode came out, the games I enjoyed the most had me with a tank duo. I just loved the synergy's between the tanks, like zar and rein or doom and ball. It felt way better than most of my ow2 games. But that's most likely because it was a new game mode. I'm very excited for the 6v6 play test as well as the moth meta ow classic event, I want to play dps doom so baaaaad. I loved watching ow1 zbra doom montages :) and awesome video!
I was busy during the kingmaker test and wasn't able to play it, unfortunately. But I really miss tank synergies! It's funny cause I had finally began to understand tank rotations within a teamfight or the poke phase, and then we got 5v5. That's the main thing I'm looking forward to with 6v6 tests lol
Had no idea I was watching a small TH-camr. Good stuff.
I think most people blame the balance team for most of the problems and the OW1 dev team for the switch to 5v5. I don't think this current dev team gets most of the blame.
I also believe that if this current balance team was in OW1 we wouldn't have changed format. And no, getting steamrolled in OW1 is not worse because you get steamrolled way harder OW2 because of hardcounters and they're more frequent. This wasn't as much of an issue in OW1, since everything was much easier to kill. Prime OW1 almost any ult combos practically wiped teams, while in OW2 the amount of sustain and survivability are much higher making ult combos like nanoblade and grav+anything basically useless. I like 6v6 better but 5v5 is savable in my opinion, the balance team needs some work, great speed, not very good with balance.
I think 6v6 with the overwatch 2 character design would help a lot, would alleviate how much team play is needed to play it. Like rein should be able to keep his pin cancel since it's qol but losing a fire strike is fine and zarya can keep her 2 bubbles. Keep the player choice, I think most people liked the tank combinations and just want those cause as you said in plat most people weren't pulling off goats, most didn't have the coordination for it
Reminiscing about release Brig gave me some serious vietnam flashbacks.
In all seriousness, I've only recently been able to play OW2 after not being able to since its launch, and I must say that 6v6 was better. Tank is my preferred role (unfortunately), and it feels like I have way too much responsibility in the team- Zen especially fucks me up, because his discord orb feels way more impactful. I think 6v6 is overall healthier, and in order to prevent stuff like Double Shields, maybe they could introduce a negative passive- if there's 2 shield tanks, their shields' health is only 60-75% of their full health; that way the team can still have two shields, but they are no longer impenetrable walls.
Honestly as someone who plays alot of games that just never get patched and the meta is just what it is the hate for stale metas always baffle me. Something has to be the best so if what is the best is fun keep it that way let's not risk ruining it. In my mind if:
A. The mechanics are balanced
B. The king or queen of the game (top 1) encourages the game to be played in an postive way.
Then the game is a viable competitive experience.
This is for instance why folks hated Gotas far more than something like dive because the armour system was mechanically broken and the queen (brig) basically musculed DPS out of the game.
Overwatch 2 as a whole very much suffers from the same problems as goats but way worse because of how mechanically broken gigatanks and counterswapping is and most of the top 1's or big meta drivers of the game either perpetuate riskless gameplay (Kiri, Bap, Orisa) or boil the game down into dynamics with very little or binary counterplay (Widow, Mauga).
So the reason i perfer 6v6 is that at the very least it has produced multiple versions of the game that meet thoes 2 qualifers to me whilst OW2 simply has not depsite having better balalnce and understnading of what the game is.
I guess I just like it more when overwatch was a more swingly polarised game because it led to interesting anti meta compositions and team vs team dynamics when the game was looser and less refined and I love when actual long term player discovery influences meta changes as opposed to artifcial balance patches, perhaps i'm just a contrarian idk.
Kinda a rambly directionless mess of a post but that's sorta where my headspace is at.
I think I get what you're saying, and it's a fair take. And the main complaint I remember about goats, from the viewer perspective, was that it was boring to watch. Which makes perfect sense with what you said, you just got into the root cause; armor being a broken mechanic and the comp leaving no room for DPS. It was a show of mental skill by the players (when to go in, ability rotations) more than mechanical skill (flashy dps performances)
"Oh hey, didn't see you there!" 😂 Your narration is on point 👏🏻
The classic youtuber cringe intro with no face cam 😂
im like 90% sure 2 tanks was better than 3 and the whole playerbase had a massive skill issue
I love this. Ty for being sane, I’ll sub okay?
Thank you!
looks like i just stumbled upon the next big channel!!!
That means a lot, coming from a small business. Thank you!
Goats would have been a good meta if it didn’t work on every map and I will die on this hill.
You see me
In the response from being team diff 6v6. you are getting rolled: "Great just 40 more seconds till the next game." You are the ones rolling:"I'M APPLYING FOR OWL RIGHT NOW"
😂
I was one of the few who loved the goats meta. Yes it was stale but it felt like chess. You stared down you opponent, waiting for them to fuck up and make a mistake. That was the winning condition. Playing it was fun, raw and intense. Alas this wasn't meant to last. I loved brig. She was too overpowered though, but it was the one time us healers can scream back at the dps cunts.
Healing has always sucked in ow, you feel helpless and it's thankless. But in goats, i had a blast.
"What do you MEAN 'where's my healing?' I am playing the most broken support in the game and you STILL DIED! HOW?? HOW IS THAT ON ME???" lmao
@PostMeridianOW I'm confused with your comment but I suspect it was something to do with the screaming back bit. Might be worded poorly but I meant we could fight back against getting pummeled by dive comps, oftentimes with no peel. If I recall, the seasons coming up to goats grnji and tracers were such a pain and hard to contest
I don’t like how ppl talk abt the team play aspect of 6v6 like it was a fair skill dimension in a game we’ve been playing with randoms for almost a decade (duoing at max) it’s like they’re fetishizing a coin toss. In 2019 i was scrimming goats 2 hours a day and swapping back to ranked for more 2, under 6v6 ranked you’d literally lose because one of their offtank or main tank were just a little more agreeable to play with marginally better cohesion than ur no mic gamer randos, this dimension of the game in ranked was NEVER a “can you team play?” it was without a shadow of a doubt a “will you team play?” Like bruv, say what you will but what i see here it’s a personality test to see who can AGREE to access the teamplay FLOOR first. The fact i was out grinding to craft a good LFT on stinky competitive discords just to BEGGIN to access and work that part of the game with no bulls** consistently says A LOT guys. My prediction is that a lot of ppl just gonna throw combo-less ults like Lebron passing to the ball to Bronny james and quit the game to protect their hair line from the stress
"Will your team play?" Yeah, that's exactly it. And we kinda saw that happen in early Overwatch League too. Seoul Dynasty started off doing great because they were individually just that good. But as the season went on and the other teams started to jell and understand each other better, Seoul went from leading the pack to ending up kinda mid. Not the worst team, but just doing alright (if memory serves). The other teams started working together better than Seoul did, so they fell behind.
And I definitely agree with your prediction. Having the importance of teamplay bumped back up to Overwatch 1 levels is going to be a rough adjustment for a lot of newer players lol
Unfortunately I don’t think there would be much to adjust to, just unavoidable frustration at all ranks and skill levels. Seol failing due to lack of team work was fair outcome because all teams played together consistently because it’s pro play obviously but this is absolutely not a fair skill assessment for the ranked environment historically, this is not a matter of “well team work can outwit mechanical skill deal with it” the ranked environment simply won’t give you the tools (people) that would wanna grow with you the same way they would in the overwatch league, Why balance the game like it’s this fairy tale ceremonial version of the game is beyond me
There are plenty of ways they could have ended goats, and the biggest way was insipre. Inspire is so ridiculously over powered that even adter role lock brig still was the best (or maybe second best to baptise) do you know the only time we had enough healing in overwatch to support 3 tanks was? Thats right! When anna nade healed like 100 hp on a 10 second cooldown. And all 3 tanks had ways to heal or take large amounts of damage while waiting for heals (vape, rein sheild, zaryas sheilds and bubbles) so yes goats woiluldve been counterable if big was actually nerfed properly, but all you know about are things that really didnt make her broken. (Rally, 600 hp sheild, health pack sheilds, etc)
YES WHAT A GOOD OPINION
gmail in thumbnail? I click.
Gmail??
Nothing relevant to 6v6 role queue surely but I’ll walk with you
Your like a more concise Freedo.
history will prove that 6v6 was the better format, whether you like it or not
Oh I'll like it. I miss tank synergies lol
8:50 ok here youre wrong "nothing could dethrown GOATs" um...... if they gave brig 10hp and zar 12hp and rein 14 hp and lucio 9 hp........do you think people would still be playing GOATs,,,,,,,how could one miss such a simple calculation,,,,looking forward to your reply. Thank you.
Just rework Brig so she's made of glass and dies from one tick of Winton tesla damage, exactly
@@PostMeridianOW and what if brig had 10000hp, you gotta draw your own conclusions, do i have to spell it out for you?
oh wait, i see youre the author of he video,,,,, nothing could dethrown goats,,,, that is incorrct they could just nerf goats,,,, how can you not understand that? it's very easy to see
@@PostMeridianOW all in all the video is pretty good and you seem really level headed, but a lot of ppl get this wrong, role queue fixed GOATs,,, and so would nerfing the GOATs heroes, how is something so obvious missed by so many, or am I missing something?
Well like I said in a reply to your other comment, they did try to nerf goats and it didn't work. Brig especially got nerf after nerf and, while it did make the the comp less effective overall, it was still the best comp most of the time for most situations. If they'd been more aggressive with the nerfs, maybe it would've worked eventually, but they don't want to be too heavy handed and make the heroes unusable.
Which leads me to believe that it wasn't so much the numbers that made goats so strong, but the ability synergies. They would've had to nerf the heroes to the point of being borderline unusable outside of goats (which would've made for some wild pickrates/winrates for non-pro play), or rework their abilities starting with Brig and seeing who needs the next rework after players adapt.
If Brig had been launched in her current, reworked, OW2 state, I don't think goats would've happened. But I could be wrong, I haven't paid close attention to the 6v6 workshop modes. For all I know, there's one running the current OW2 patch without role lock and there's a team terrorizing it with 3-3 lol
@@PostMeridianOW your first paragraph is so eggrigiouly wrong, no hate lol
if brig had 1hp she'd be a throw pick in GOATs,, if she had 1 million HP she'd be a must pick,,,, so it stands to reason that somewhere in the middle would be a good amount of HP. am i missing something? doesn't this prove that any misbalance is done on purpose? (forget heavy handedness for second)
good stuff man owo
thank you! owo
Goated video.
very good vid I started the game during the first anniversary event played it for years and years had pretty much every single skin on Genji including event legendries when I stopped i was missing only 1 legendary Genji skin from an event and I got them all without buying loot boxes I miss being able to earn everything then when echo came out and updates slowed down I took a break and then overwatch 2 happened and I was nothing but disappointed only interesting part of that game was the new default skins and the idea of PvE the rest was just a ruined game plus I didn't have a pc at the time and didn't remember my battle net account and realized they were charging basically the price of overwatch 1 for like 2 skins I used to own for free so I dropped that garbage excuse for a sequel but would always check in on the game through youtube to see how its doing now we have Marvel rivals an actual good hero shooter to take over I always wished we could get an overwatch like with marvel but gave up on the idea a long time ago but now its here and its great
Yeah, the whole "Overwatch 2 as a sequel with PvE" promise/launch was one of the greatest fumbles of all time. Highly disappointing. I've always been here for just the pvp. Something about the heroes just feels so good for me to play.
I'm glad you're enjoying Rivals though! I'm definitely going to try it out at some point. It looks like a lot of fun
When are we gonna stop pretending that 6v6= OW1
Also 6v6 is better but 5v5 didn’t ruin Overwatch. Season 9 did.
Tanks now are at least a little fun to play. It was aids to get screamed at to swap to a barrier tank to pair with the barrier tank that was already on the field. And the fact there was a second tank means tank ults couldn't have quite the impact they do now, or else staggering them back to back would be far too powerful.
I have feel differently, and a never quite found the same fun as a solo tank in ow2. It has its upsides, but as an offtank main back in the day, specifically an offtank Zarya lover, I found much less enjoyment in the tank role. I tried things and experimented, and it lead me to drop tank entirely and become a support main occasionally playing dps. But every open q game, or other opportunity to be an offtank fills me with a differen kind of joy.
I am an offtank Zarya main at heart, despite everything that changed in the game, and nothing quite hits the same in ow2. The closest is open q and the recent Kingmaker mode. So i hope 6v6 will be added permanently, even if it is just for quick play, and maybe a rare non permanent ranked gamemode like deathmatch, mystery heroes, and others had.
What gets me is people will complainin about ult centric marco brawl metas and then glaze the goats era like, i guess both can be true but u are also completely dismisive of any new macro meta. I honestly blame this on the pro overwatch production jumping on the hate train instead of explaining why team A is better than team B. Drives me insane hearing people say something is no skill, when the best players and teams are still winning. Or the team thats historically good at a simular meta is good buut nooo its all luck and rng
Yeah, I remember hearing an analyst explaining why goats was so strong and saying something to the effect of "compared to other comps, you can make more mistakes and get away with it." Which I think fed into the "it takes no skill" idea. But if we look at it the other way, everyone is human; mistakes will happen. Maybe a slight miscommunication, or they'll think they see an opportunity to get a kill and end up being wrong. In another comp, they'd die for it. But goats could absorb that mistake and regroup quickly.
@PostMeridianOW I get that line of thinking, but it's true whenever a comp is "meta". Goats might have also been less punishing for minor positioning errors in the neutral, but in terms of ults, these brawl matchups are far more punishing. Simply beucase the closer together a team has to play, the more value ultimates get on avg. Dive vs. counter dive brawl, and the dive team wins in general through ultimates. Same w brawl v brawl. Wasting Juno ult or cage or grav or beat is insane deal because these metas develop around cycling ults not because brawl ults are better but simply beucase brawl teams are weaker to ults. Obviously, my opinion, but I think it's backed up by evidence cos I said it sorry it's 5am and I can't sleep gn. 😀
lmao nah, you're good. This is exactly what I wanted; discussion. I wanted to get other people's opinions
12:58 💀💀💀
I'm glad someone appreciated that LOL
Hard disagree 14:30. In 5v5 nearly every game is a hard stomp, your so called "hard team diff". It feels so bad, even winning isn't fun. I tested it, played it. Out of my last 25 games 21 of them were hard stomps. I was even winning most of them and still had barely any fun.
I played the 6v6 custom mode and even loosing was a blast. It was a fun experience regardless of winning or loosing. There was also no rank queue, we had people of all ranks and still had fair games. Those team diffs you were talking about could happen, but it rarely did. And even then you had a chance to fight back.
In 5v5 you win or loose the moment you load into the game, because either you team plays the correct heroes and plays together, or not. Got a one trick Hog on Havana against Sigma? Tough luck, try again next time. There is no outplaying, only correct hero picks.
Why would not getting the correct tank in 5v5 feel less frustrating than loosing because of skill in 6v6? I don't get it. 5v5 is not a skill gap most of the time, but a character choice gap.
Wow, that sucks. Sorry your matchmaking has been so shit. Mine's been wonky before, but usually not so consistent like that.
It's interesting that you mention needing to have the correct characters to win in 5v5 because I've heard people say the same thing about 6v6. Just that there were more instances in 6v6 of "We picked slightly more meta heroes/synergies than the other team felt like playing, so we just win." In my experience with 5v5, counters still exist of course, but it hasn't felt like there have been as many patches of "you must pick these heroes or you'll lose." Granted, I'm not in gm and never have been so maybe that's the reason for that lol
But like I said in the video, I'm not trying to say you're wrong. Just offering my experience so we can share viewpoints and talk about the game. I really appreciate the comment! You actually gave me an idea for something I could flesh out more in a future vid
@@PostMeridianOW It's not bad luck when the matchmaking is shit. It's the format that forces those unbalanced games. Blizzard even admitted to it that there are more one sided games in OW2 than in OW1.
I did write a lot more, but it got deleted. If you're interested I could explain a lot more via Discord or something why the core problem is 5v5. Immortalities are also a problem that still needs fixing in 6v6.
Yeah, sure! The link to my Discord server is in the description. If you can't just dm me, send me a friend request and put something in one of the channels so I know who you are lol
But yeah, dm me and we'll set something up
This may just be a skill issue, unironically. Your games are stomps because the matchmaking is like, super bad for certain elos.
This is mostly because of they made it to where people at widely different elos can queue together. That probably should not have happened, but I know they did it to help boost player retention in comp.
Yeah, I understand the reasoning behind the wide group decision, but I don't think that was a good idea. Usually results in weird matches. That's why my friends and I will stack for quickplay, but usually do comp separate.
ayo hit me up when u get ur veterans discount i want mine too
I got you
disagree heavily
Id rather go back to the goats patches than play with the passives and bullshit thats in right now
Goats patches with the aggressive patches we get now would probably be great
Why zero comments? Is bug or nobody want to leave one?
It's a feature
8:28 role q solves a problem in one of the worst games possilbe, i've done videoes on this
sorry but your devs take was dog5hit same with goats take
admitting defeat instead of balancing the game properly,,,, can you expound on this statement,,, i'm a little lost, thank you
When they added role queue, a common sentiment in the community was "well if you'd just balance the game you wouldn't need to add role lock!" Which... maybe there's a discussion to be had about that nowadays, but back then we weren't getting patches nearly as frequently as we do now. And they weren't nearly as aggressive with the changes either.
Not saying it would've been impossible, but they had been trying to put GOATs in the ground for months and it hadn't worked. Probably because they were being too gradual with it, trying not to make any heroes unplayable in the process. But eh, there's plenty of debate to be had about the philosophy at the time.
Looks like you have quite a few videos about balance though. Which ones should I watch for your best takes? lol
your last point is objectively wrong. OW2 has more steam rolls than OW1 ever did. Even the devs acknowledged that. Why are you blatantly lying?
Well if you'll notice, I didn't say OW1 had more steam rolls than OW2. Just that when they did happen, they felt a lot worse. At least from what I remember! I'm thinking of the unbridled fun of getting full held on Anubis, Volskaya, Hanamura, etc. Good stuff! Lol
@ I see, well if I misinterpreted what you said I apologize. But that’s more of a map design issue than a format issue. I think we can all agree that their map design is much better in OW2 than in OW1 because they learned from the maps you just mentioned. I don’t see how it’s fair to blame the format for map design issues tho
Yeah 2CP were just the particularly painful ones, but it's possible it was more on the overall map design. I see what you're saying
Two dummies
@@PostMeridianOW Same feeling i have. Double shield unbreakable choke point holds are my most memorable stomps in ow1, and those were boring and unfun. But now stomps are much more frustrating instead, or thats how i feel.
When are we gonna stop pretending that 6v6= OW1
Also 6v6 is better but 5v5 didn’t ruin Overwatch. Season 9 did.