This twitch chat was absolutely wild, and showed me no one will kill OW more than OW players being as miserable as possible trying to spread it onto others
Because what's the point of him doing the 6v6 test if he doesn't care? It's fun watching him have fun, not being pouty about doing something he doesn't have to and then "clap back" at chat as if he's being forced to play it Edit: the assumption I forced myself to watch him instead of leaving is high for no reason. Also people can watch someone and complain if they want and if you think that's dumb better talk to everyone who has ever played a game, complained a lot, and kept playing (overwatch for the last 2 years!)
The weird thing is that Flats said it was 6v6 people when I think its just twitch trolls doing what they do. They just show up to ruin anything going on regardless of what it is.
I think hearing the phrases "this feels more like overwatch than current patch," and "tank is so much less stressful" might single handedly bring me back to try this game again
If this is what happens literally the first day of the 6v6 patch going live, imagine people actually fully adjusting to the change after 3-4 months of playtime and how much potential exists in it. For someone like Flats who wasn't even super excited but just wanted to give it a fair shot on day-1, to already feel the improvement in gameplay is a sign of just how much benefit there is to 6v6. I played it for some hours yesterday and most of it actually queued as dps/support to get the wholistic experience of changes, and man fights were just so much more consistent compared to 5v5. Momentum swings are more methodical, you can plan further ahead, and you can rely more on your team actually playing together more often than not due to how incentivized it is now to play around the frontline presence rather than just instantly diverting to 5 independent 1v1s any time there's a chance for it. Feels so good tbh
@@Real_MisterSir this is so real like first of all if tank dies this doesn't mean u listen the team fight and secondly tanks can be killed they don't need to be shot by the whole enemy team to be killed
I have been more stressed in 6v6 playtest than I ever have in comp. Probably a balance issue but to me the team fights feel long, drawn out, and tedious. TTK is too high.
That’s the first thing I said to my friends after playing it. I don’t like the 6v6 mode because of the way they balanced the tanks, but I LOVE having another tank. Man it’s so refreshing.
@@malekgroot yess especially that part. Tanks can be killed if they overstep their space, so while they can contest more space overall as a duo frontline, they are also more exposed if they misplay their individual cards. Makes fights much more dynamic and interesting because so many options are legit viable now both for attacking and defending positions.
Omg there is so much noise lmao Flats explaining the scoreboard, Emmong trying to say something, the dono thing talking and the game sounds with the chaos in the background 😂
Definitely. They just need to balance it out more properly. Like the roadhog and rein changes were kind of bogus - I wish the OW team would understand we want 6v6 for the current state of the game, not necessarily reverting back to OW1
Shout out to Flats' editor! It doesn't look like a ton of work to do some of these edits, but it takes sooo long to get them right and to feel good. Thanks for the work you do taking great content and elevating it even more! Also, thanks to Flats for making awesome content!
"During Development we tested 5v5 and even 7v7 in all variations, they felt to imbalanced or chaotic respectively. 6v6 is the sweet spot that lets players have agency and feel their impact on the match, without one player dictating the entire pace of the match" -Jeff Kaplin (might be paraphrasing the end slightly hard to remember the exact quote from like a decade ago) theres a reason the game was 6v6 and the new devs are gonna learn that.
There's also a reason they went to 5v5. I'm convinced it's damned if you do and damned if you don't and frankly at a minimum the 6v6 balance is shit right now. It's all over the place. With time they can probably improve it, but Idk how much. I'm feeling like if they go back to 6v6 and it's the only thing I'm stuck with I'm just gonna drop the game again like I did OW1 back in like 2018
@Rohndogg1 i agree however the team even said they would see how things go and balance from there, im cautiously optimistic about 6v6 but OW as a product not so much so..... And that wont change.
I couldn't agree more. I stopped queueing tank 6 months ago and last night I had more fun on tank than I've had in a really long time. Not only that, I enjoyed the other roles as well. Maybe it was the lobbies that I was in, but it really felt more team oriented. I popped off on my last game and I didn't want to log off to go to bed...
Tyrannosaurus Rex and Velociraptor appeared and lived around the same time, the late cretaceous. Both lived around 90 million to 66 million years ago, the estimates do vary of course
Yeah I don't like 6v6 and if it IS coming back I don't trust how they planned on "testing" it. Because blizzard is so bad at balancing and finding good feedback. Like I literally told my friends a few months ago. "They're just going to half ass the test, forget about the dps passive, and waste everyone's time". And they somehow did it so much worse 😂.
Fellow rein main, I agree with the power steering but actually prefer one fire strike, especially if it does more damage. To me it feels like more of an impactful decision of when to use it instead of just kind of throwing it and spreading out damage
I have only ever been an Overwatch 2 player so I’m still new to 6v6. I did try Overwatch Classic, so I got a small taste then. I will say, my first impressions of 6v6 are mostly positive as of the first night. Playing tank feels less stressful, which I think is the main reason why I enjoy it so far. I will say that sometimes I get into a game and my team either steamrolls or gets steamrolled, playing Clash on 6v6 doesn’t always feel very good because it’s really hard to break through chokes before the capture starts (the game mode was clearly designed with 5v5 in mind), but push seems to work pretty well in the 6v6 format. So far it feels like 6v6 is much more natural.
i found it miserable in tank, It's way too frustrating, you feel like you have an insurmountable wall unless you have the ultimates of your entire team At the beginning I had a doubt, because the diversity of 6v6 is interesting, but at the end I don't see myself playing this all the time, far too frustrating, you just can't make play without ultimate
All stream chats dumb tbf. Thousands pf people who havent watched the entire stream, so you miss parts. All their questions is the collective ignorance of thousands of people at any given time lol. Chat will always be dumb cauae youre seeing peoples dumb side
I'm still trying to remember to do that on brig. It goes against instinct to look away from the threat. At least with dva bomb you have to shield by looking directly at the mech vs hazard ult where you have to look away from haz
@jopvasquez6056 Definitely this. I've been playing Brig recently, and it is hard to block with such a tiny barrier. How has the inspire duration nerf affected you?
Those Twitch players are the very reason I don't find OW fun anymore; Everyone is so quick to project their own issues onto others at the very first sign of a problem. They no longer function like adults and try to solve the problem. They just scream like confused, angry toddlers. It's simply an immediate and extreme tantrum because things didn't go precisely the way they wanted. Flat's Twitch chat experience is a perfect example of that, really. Player X is angry he wasn't glazing the game non-stop, Player Y called him a shill the moment he gave it any praise. There was no winning for him because the community showed up ready to fight over anything.
@@gamerbeast3616I don't think is that easy to ignore when your entire job is about being online interacting with people... If he just ignores the chat and doesn't talk what's the point on making streams instead of just uploading commentary gameplay or edits??
Sad part is you just cant tell a streamer to be more selective with what they read or pay attention to in the chat, its something they have to learn (or not) for themselves over time. Flats regularly giving the trolls precisely what they came for
@@Ital890 some big streamers hardly ever look at chat. But just for a sec lets assume that you're right and streamers do all look at chat and respond to people, for every negative troll comment there's twice as many (at least) positive or neutral comments. So it's not like they have trouble finding something positive to read out from their chat. There's tons of streamers that do this very well: respond to the positive chatters and let the mods deal with the idiots... Look I'm not Flats' dad I'm in no position to tell him how to run his stream, it just hurts me a little to see people getting stressed because of people that absolutely do not deserve the attention
@@Pyrobull16128 premium flats glazer here sad you cant see how rude this guy is he chould easily ignore the chat but he needs to be rude because his ego cant handle it
Yeah keeping it in the edit too is odd. I keep thinking his mediocre rants to chat will end after 10 seconds but its a full blown 2 minute interlude of him saying "wahh I don't want to be here chat is mean and overwatch is poop"
Honestly more that balance/passives, I think Bigger issue is 3 weeks won't be long enough for learning curve. You mentioned multiple times about your playstyle making more sense here, but a lot of people like myself never played OW1. The few games I've played so far felt so wrong, just because the pace was so different. Having a 2nd tank free to peel and/or dive makes me play so different. It seems fun but honestly feels like learning a completely different game
Your positioning is a lot more important in 6v6, I think that's the main thing, when you learn the pace of play and habits of different tank combinations you'll be good bro. Good luck and try not to let this goofy game drive you crazy
@D_Jilla lol it's more from a support pov trying to manage my resources. Example as Moira I'm used to gauging how much dmg they will take to know how to alternate dmg/heal but kept running out from tanks playing a lot more aggressive than usual.
As a Support player, I absolutely love it and exclusively have been queueing Support. It's been a skill check for a lot of players and I've noticed especially with Support mains, they've been caught lacking with their positioning and not reading the ebb and flow of fights. For me it felt natural and I loved how much more dynamic it was. Despite it being poorly balanced and them keeping passives, I enjoyed it so much moee than all of my 5v5 experience
When you are so used to order, chaos can be just the break you need. Spread out damage means people don’t need as much healing allowing more chances to get your own licks in, however it also means that you have to keep your eyes on multiple people because there is a whole other target to be healed and, as a second tank, it means you have two big walls to worry about keeping up
@beywheelzhater8930 I mean it's not chaos to me, I played plenty of OW1 and didn't want 5v5 in the first place lol. I main Baptiste so I'm already used to weaving in damage and keeping my eyes on multiple people haha
Soooo many supports are just incapable of understanding 2 tanks. With 5v5, supports don't really need to think much about where they're going and where they're looking. I've had many fights where one tank goes to secure point totally uncontested and full health. The other tank goes to hold the choke. Both supports mindlessly follow the first tank they saw onto point and sit there doing nothing. Tanks are having a hard time understanding that they're not superheroes anymore and you can't "Take space" just by running into the middle of their team without a plan. It's been a lot of fun; it changes how the game plays and feels a lot more than I thought it would.
@ Honestly tanks couldn’t do that before either, they just ran into a full enemy team without a plan anyway Rein players in particular still do this, but they are rein players. Not pressing charge would insult their lineage
To comment on Emongg’s dinosaur knowledge, Tyrannosaurus Rex and Velociraptor both lived during the same time period (Late Cretaceous period) they were just on different continents, T-Rex is from North America and Velociraptor is from Mongolia in Asia. A more accurate comparison of age to dinosaurs would be T-Rex for flats and something like stegosaurus for Emongg.
Further fun fact: there's a 2x bigger time gap between Stegosaurus and T-Rex, than there is between T-Rex and humans. The concept of time is wild when put into context like that. So to call Emongg a Stegosaurus is akin to calling him a great great great grandpa lol
in 5v5 you notice the massive heal issues. In 6v6 you really have to position well so your healers have time to bounce between all the players needing heals
@@danielkassie5650 the problem is theres 1 less tank to take cover, if 1 tank defends the team then the supports have to heal them and the other tank defends, but with 5v5, its just a sweep against the tank until they die, and then the teamwipe comes.
Agreed on the scoreboard! You can see your own damage/heal/stats during the game in rivals and everyone else’s at the end I think that’s a good change ow could adapt.
I think you very well know what he meant by "just give it a chance." From the first moment playing you had an attitude of 'I don't wanna be here, I'm not even gonna try to have fun and act like this is a giant chore.'
Can you blame him after rivals man. That game is so much fun and such a blast vs ow a game blizzard just destroyed with the release of ow2. Rivals gives me 2016 overwatch vibes
Also it's cause overwatch is still in a bad state and a lot of the changes (especially to tank) during this 6v6 were very bad like rein for the fast movement that ow2 has turned in to
I think the 6v6 tank combos are great; it's fun to just DO stuff as a tank without every single button being used on you when you step out of cover. Rivals is going to have a really tough time trying to figure out how to get more tank players. After the honeymoon and people realize that tanks/supports are a NECESSITY, not an ACCESSORY to the main game loop, they are going to have a very tough time figuring out what is the right path. Currently, the only reason I'm playing OW2 is that I feel like the Rivals tanks are a bit bland and don't have as much fluidity as the OW2 tanks. Spilo has a pretty good video on the topic and it's fun to play 6v6, with real synergy and combos instead of raid-bosses.
As one of the people who championed 6v6, flats has gotten to the streamer point of swinging at ghosts. This current state of overwatch content creators is all just people who dont know how to react under any level of community pressure. Treating "Chat" as one person is the fastest way to build viewer resentment.
I mostly disagree with you tbh. Chat is a single organism that makes up a collective. Saying chat doesn’t group everyone together. What I do agree with is how he has child-like mannerisms. Example is when 5v5ers are pissing him off in chat, he lashes out at 6v6ers and vice versa. I could never personally understand the concept of venting my frustration at someone who didn’t cause me the frustration
I really enjoyed this test, personally for me ques were only about a minute or two so I didn't have to wait insanely long, and having a second tank by my side just felt normal yk, felt relieved of pressure and could actually have fun as a tank
Having 1 tank just breaks the game. If there’s a tank diff u automatically lose. 5v5 also means that 1 bad player will have a greater impact on the game, and it’s usually enough to lose. I remember 6v6 u could have bad teammates and still win. It also gives u more leverage to try new characters without being punished with losses
@@tumultoustortelliniTbf her pocket metas weren’t as prevalent in 6v6 since the other support has to heal two tanks on their own. Moth meta on the other hand… jfc why did they put us through that lol
@@tumultoustortellini to be fair, sojourn meta was made bc sojourn was good, mercy never received any buff that made sojourn broken, sojourn received a nerf that allowed mercy to almost revert that nerf (its true moth meta was entirely Mercy's fault tho)
Yeah idk what he means by that “i played Rein against a counter comp on a bad map for rein to prove that the changes shouldve been made” like that doesnt prove anythingn excpet rein is bad when getting countered
The point is that you're supposed to be able to play make even in a bad comp matchup, but they removed quality of life from a few heroes that completely made them "unplayable" rather than just "bad" or "disadvantageous." If you pick a Junkrat into a Pharah or Echo, you can still do stuff if you can't directly affect the Pharah most of the match. The removal of the QoL on Reinhardt made him too matchup dependent which is the whole reason we went to 6v6 was to get rid of the hyper tank counter swapping. It also proves that swinging the character designs too much for a patch gives you unusable or skewed data for the 6v6 test. He was expressing that he had way too much downtime with Reinhardt for it to be useful or even really that fun. Even if it was against a bad comp matchup.
@@maskedsausage9431 honestly bro. You shouldn't have to explain this. And you probably don't need to because they probably didnt even want to read anything besides "6v6 is good"
Honestly with JQ and Doom in the tank roster I might be way more willing to play tank these days in 6v6, biggest issue in OW1 is that I just didnt like the tanks a ton
I'm a 6v6er and people are insufferable about it. I'm happy with marvel rivals and the 6v6 test is the most fun I've had on overwatch. If 6v6 doesn't come back permanently I have marvel rivals. If it does I can play both. It's win win
Its so much less stressful. THIS RIGHT HERE! As a tank player its less stressful And also for a dps player, taking a good position and actually being able to hold that position against a tank is just so much nicer than watching their 1700000 hp tank jump across the map to remove you from high ground. Its just so nice to be positioned well and see their winston jump over to you and be able to get them low before they touch down so then you actually get to have a bit of a bubble dance fight where both players can win if they play right. I think it was the kingmaker gamemode where i was on a flank on soldier (as the king) and a mauger ran over to me, came in a room with me out of line of sight ofhis supports, insta used his healing, i hid, and when i came out he had no cooldowns and i could just have a straight aim duel with him and i killed him, whereas in 5v5 my only option there would be to run away, even if he made all those mistakes i would have to run.
as a tank main, 5v5 hurts me, I have to do the job of both taking space, and making sure my team isnt being jumped, while also having to take most damage being the ONLY big person in sight succks. This 6v6 although feels much more relaxed, while still maintaining the comp feel of the game, it feels like I can focus on my job, and my job alone, I have someone else splitting the "big person" damage with me, which also splits up the supports some so nobody is being heal botted and just PUMPED with HP 24/7 one tank can help our supports from being dived/diving their team while the other watches front line. or you know all the other play styles. I miss it, this feels good, and tbh if they only make this into a future arcade mode, I am down to wait 24 min in order to play it
6v6 has been so fun so far idc so much about the balance right now nothing has felt too bad in terms of balance it’s been so fun to play 6v6 again I think they need to keep QOL changes for heroes like Rein and Zarya that just made the hero feel better and not revert them just cause it’s 6v6. Thanks to the devs for bringing this back I hope they keep it.
6v6 has brought me so much joy again playing Overwatch 2, joy I haven't felt since Overwatch 1, other than Reinhart with his nerfs he didn't really need, every character I've tried feels so much fun to play, tank, dps, support, all of them just feel better, even while loosing I'm having fun, it feels balanced There are so many toxic people who also wanted 6v6 and they would drown out actual talking points by just repeating a simplified version and not being able to elaborate, but I feel like now that it's actually being shown off people who are 5v5 will now be able to see for themselves the talking points that 6v6ers without much of a voice wanted to tell them about.
As a gold player who started at the beginning of Ow2 and being hardstuck bronze 5 for longer than I'd like to admit. 6v6 has been the most fun I've had in the 2 years I've played. Probably not the best for yall who have played since day 1 but it is genuinely more exiting than 5v5
Personally if 6v6 gets approved for qp and comp, I can see it as an alternate format for players to enjoy alongside 5v5, akin to Pokemon's Singles and Doubles formats having unique gameplay differences.
Yeah, but I worry about the effect on q times with 5v5, 6v6 AND open q. Not to mention 3 different games to balance.. I already think they don't do enough fast enough. This season 14 patch sucked and that's probably bc they put all their effort into the 6v6 patch
@@bennettnez4711it really isn't that hard, specially since they pretty much only care for stats. Besides, most people will most likely abandon 5v5 after a few months of 6v6
@IgorJCorrea you say that like you have years of game development experience and you didn't see the season 14 patch. Playing the game since 2016 proves that they have a hard time with balance.
@@bennettnez4711 we all know the current 6v6 tests already is easier to balance than 5v5, because that requires reworks so people don't have a miserable time, they just revealed orisa gog and mauga have the worst win rates while being the most hated tanks and used for counter picking, put that together and you have a big problem, but they are interesting heroes for 6v6 in a tank duo, which makes them not require as much from the devs and makes them more fun to play against. If they just slowly improve 6v6 I believe 5v5 will start to be irrelevant anyway, but the players will have to choose and trust me most will rather have unbalanced 6v6 than keep playing 5v5 how it is atm
@IgorJCorrea you got lost in nonsense there, I never said that wasn't going to happen. I said I don't think they can balance 3 games at once. Sure, a mode might change or die, that doesn't change what I said.
I hope this game-mode sticks around in some form and can be ironed out. The 6v6 format alone is enough to get me playing tank again despite my gripes with the balance choices made for it.
I just don't understand nerfing the fun out of the tanks for 6v6. The additions to old tanks being removed, like Roadhog trap and health breather being a resource. Just make the trap do no dmg, keep the slow and nerf the heal a bit. Removing a firestrike from Rein? Why is having something more fun than just holding a shield getting removed? Ball being able to give shield was niche but a nice addition to the gameplay. Btw I prefer 6v6. I just don't like removing things for it, the tanks that evolved with OW2 was great. I mean just look at the new Tank and how many things he can do compared to the old ones. Marvel Rivals just gets it. It becomes so obvious now when we have a decent game to compare things to.
Hard agree. Plus, as an experiment, it fails to reduce the number of changed variables to the experience. Whatever data they get from it will be scuffed by the inordinate number of changes they did. Was the presence of a second tank the reason it failed/succeeded, or was it the combination of changes they did? They can never know at this point.
It's worth trying for sure, trying to imagine why they reverted I think its because they're 2 years removed from OW1 balancing so instead of tuning the buffs and changes for rien and roadhog they decided it wasn't necessary since those changes were made for 5v5. In reality I think they're gonna look at statistics and say both are fine based on winrate but having modern rien in 6v6 would feel so good.
The hog secondary fire is way more interesting than the trap, nothing is lost. They removed it cause they added it for 5v5, and right now it's an experiment. Ball is literally 600% better in 6v6 why would you care about the shield stuff. Marvel Rivals does not have very good tank design, only a few of them are interesting to play (Hulk, Thor and Doctor strange) while the other are pretty boring like Venom (braindead gameplay loop and shield mechanic), Magneto ( has a hard time killing anything, you just stand there and block damage) or Captain America (you just run around and do barely any damage) Even characters like Thor are pretty dumb since you're punished for using your abilities since you have to save your charges to use the Awakening Rune. This is maybe not obvious right now since people are still figuring out the optimal way to play characters but in a few month it will become obvious
i dont understand why they made ANY changes going into this experiment, to be frank. I know that, especially in the case of tanks, all of the heroes have been tuned up for 5v5 and it wouldn't be sustainable to keep them that way in 6v6, but I think it'd give a better idea as to what players would actually enjoy in an OW2 6v6. they took all these fun new abilities away and for what? even the tank health buff should've been kept, if only to see how that plays out in 6v6. it feels like the devs are too scared of things being a little unbalanced in a mode advertised as an experiment. this was their chance to make something interesting and new using an old format, and they just decided to play it way too safe.
Also agree with this. Playing tank in 5v5 feels horrible because every cooldown is aimed at you due to being a big target. You also can’t really do much in terms of playmaking because you’re just not as much as a threat. Which is nuts considering there’s only 2 on the field. The 6v6 question is being asked primarily for the benefit of having another tank to also help take some cooldowns off your back. The test people wanted was to see if tank felt better with someone else in the front line with you. Nerfing the absolute crap out of tanks for the 6v6 test makes tank feel even worse because not only do you still take majority of cooldowns/agro you also now can’t do anything about it. You don’t do enough consistent dmg to get solo kills, a lot of defensive abilities are less effective and have longer cooldowns, and overall less hp. I understand tanks couldn’t be dropped in the 6v6 as they were but this is overkill and doesn’t follow the overall goal of this play test. Especially since no changes to majority of the dps were made. Their job is to deal dmg so of course their dmg rates should be higher but bastion reviving no slight adjustments, cass being at 275 hp with dmg reduction on his roll, then getting a dmg buff to fan the hammer? A tank buster ability? When tanks have reduced hp? Also lifeweaver has 275 hp a self heal every what 5 seconds? So overall dps essentially stayed the same or got slight buffs to do more dmg, supports got buffed to heal more, and no cooldowns were nerfed like lamp or suzu, and tanks basically got nerfed across the board. So frontline tanks like rein can’t do anything and dice tanks like doom also can’t do anything. The goal was to see if 6v6 would be better for tanks because majority of players don’t enjoy playing tanks.
6v6 is actually straight up better. They only need better balance, like i don't get a few of these changes. But it feels so good knowing the pressure isn't on just one tank
2:48 i think they could give rein's second firestrike and steering in 6v6 and it would be just fine honestly. If that turns out to be too unbalanced, I would rather them nerf his stats and let him make more of these high skill plays, it makes the character much more fun and engaging. Stats are not engaging, fun or strategic, but intuitive depth to abilities are.
Twitch chat is kinda crazy bro. Like if this how the Overwatch community is acting, I wouldn’t blame any of the cc’s if they just full swapped to rivals 💀. Yall gotta relax man. Yall make the community feel like shit to be apart of
@@anarchistmaverick9507 so if every overwatch cc left for rivals, u don’t think that’s an issue? If EVERY one stopped covering overwatch, don’t u think that’s hurts the community? It might not affect you, but a good amount of actual overwatch fans, still watch content creators.
16:57 i agree on the stress part, i only started playing this game 2 months ago but im always afraid to queue for tank bc of how much the game depends on just a singular tank, lemme rephrase, the team does, whenever a team loses a team fight they put the blame on the tank, although i really do enjoy playing tanks i love making space but its hard for me to queue it while knowing ill get blamed for every small thing i do, i really hope they put the 6v6 in comp asap im so excited to see the tank combos
I am enjoying 6v6 there are pain points, but the game feels better. I played mostly Rein and it was painful bliss, I saw a lot of Ram and Sigma. I want the Tank evolutions back, Doom I fundamentally hate how his fist works, so I wish that he went back in the time machine.
I think doing an experimental hero ban patch would be great. Then you could see what characters people despise playing against then they can take that information and see if there’s things that can be done Instead of looking at win rate
The 6v6 Test has been the most fun I've had in Overwatch in a long time, especially as a Flex Player who used to do all 3 roles, but stopped when we only had the 1 Tank Role. With 2 Tanks, I feel a lot less pressure and feel a lot more able to experiment or have fun as a Tank.
Who at Blizzard could’ve ever predicted that fans would enjoy a 6v6 version of Overwatch 2? Maybe they can create a prequel, maybe just call it Overwatch! Maybe it won’t be shit either! 😂
Ty flats for coming back and playing and giving your feedback. At least you aren't miserable, that about sums up tanking right now. Though playing flex queue myself, I'm jealous because we keep getting rolled back into spawn by pharah and super aggressive tanks with heavy pockets. It's truly just how I remember.
This is LITERALLY THE LESS STRESSED I’ve ever seen Flats playing Overwatch… like he’s just PLAYING… That’s a good FEELING BECAUSE THAT’S HOW I felt… but didn’t feel ANY PRESSURE!!!!
6v6 is great. Wayyyy better than OW1 which was powercreep SHIELDwatch, and better than OW2 5v5 Maugawatch where I'd rather be pull teeth than solo queue Tank. The game somehow feels slower and more managable despite there being more people. I don't get it, but it just feels right. The balance at this stage already feels pretty clean. Honestly, if Tanks killing queue times is really such an issue, maybe all they need to do is make more compelling tanks. Hell, maybe we're already there. Worst case, I'm with Flats on this one. 7v7 all the way!
RN the problem with Rein especially, is that a lot of the OW2 maps are made with much wider space and more angles, so as Rein you kinda just stand there and watch the enemy team run circles around you due to how much open space and how many lanes are available to them. NQ Street is probably the worst offender here, but most push maps suffer from it to some extend. There aren't really any hard points Rein can hold down, no real space that offers a big enough competitive advantage for the enemy to want to fight for it, so they can basically just ignore yo ass and do as they want to the rest of your team. I think 6v6 further highlights some of the glaring map issues at play in the recent map additions. 5v5 is already scrappy as it is and you're expected to be less dependent on your team, so here it's not really as meaningful to have well designed maps that play properly -but in 6v6 you really need to have that map inherent game balance where there are pros and cons for all heroes. Like Hollywood, sure street phase is more catered to vertical mobility heroes but you can still play the rooftop advantage as Rein cus that rooftop matters enough for the enemy to want to contest it regardless of what hero they go up against. On a map like NQ Street you don't really have any such space where the enemy are so inclined to contest it that they'll willingly face off against a Rein who already is controlling said space -and likewise they won't hold down the space themselves if they have it and an enemy Rein pushes to contest them. They'll just fuck off and do something on other parts of the map cus the map is so insignificant that all you need is mobility and you automatically have a 100% advantage at all times.
it's not just the maps, new heroes too. Winston in classic 6v6 felt great. in this 6v6 is much worse. you do lower damage, you have longer cooldowns and now almost every hero have mobility.
@@alessiofe yea definitely there's a lot of that too, and with some of the newer tank additions being more in the Sigma direction of "can do 3 different things with no glaring weaknesses for them to play around". The kinda do-it-all tanks are exacerbating the issue to some extend, especially when high mobility and low cooldown cycles are thrown in the mix (like Hazard for example or Doom, tho I'd rather keep Doom as a tank than a DPS). And every hero having either mobility or escape/immo options is still a major issue regardless of format. Suzu and lamp need to be looked at and I don't care how many times it has to be stated. They have never been good for the game.
@@D_Jillastarting to think queue times will always be an issue mainly because OW is just not as popular anymore. 5v5 was implemented because Blizzard knew the game was losing players and plays count was low. But by doing that they basically pushed away a lot of players who just don’t like 5v5 and that’s why they are bringing back 6v6 for testing. I think it’s more so to try and bring back that playerbase that they lost with the transition to 5v5. But honestly, I don’t think anything will make this game regain popularity and player counts will either stagnate or slowly drop for years to come. Queue times aren’t going to change.
@@D_Jilla that’s a fair opinion. I just have a hard time believing that a system like that won’t get abused by DPS players who pick tank as a preferred role to get shorter queue times, only to then pick DPS. I’d rather have a system of no role queue but there has to be at least 1 tank, 1 DPS, and 1 Healer picked per team. In my opinion this is the only way you fix queue times.
I like this style of editing. Idk if this is a new editor or something, but great job with this vid! very comprehensive, flowed smoothly, and prioritising commentary over gameplay is awesome to see!
let's be honest, the real reason we want 6v6 back is for flats and emongg tank duo. these guys make my day when they're together and something about them holding that frontline is just so wholesome
Flats, Imma be honest. I lost interest in OW over a year and a half ago. Your Rivals content has been a breath of fresh air and has brought me back to your channel. Looking forward to more Rivals stuff soon!
Me and friends had so much fun playing 6v6 we actually got to include everyone which was great. The game felt good for the roles. Alot of the rivals players just want to see Overwatch fail, not actually improve.
Could you imagine where they make a game mode where someone on 1 team will choose a character for a role, then depending on the choice, certain characters will be removed from being selected as to try and bypass hard countering.
This twitch chat was absolutely wild, and showed me no one will kill OW more than OW players being as miserable as possible trying to spread it onto others
Because what's the point of him doing the 6v6 test if he doesn't care? It's fun watching him have fun, not being pouty about doing something he doesn't have to and then "clap back" at chat as if he's being forced to play it
Edit: the assumption I forced myself to watch him instead of leaving is high for no reason. Also people can watch someone and complain if they want and if you think that's dumb better talk to everyone who has ever played a game, complained a lot, and kept playing (overwatch for the last 2 years!)
ow2 wont die lol
The weird thing is that Flats said it was 6v6 people when I think its just twitch trolls doing what they do. They just show up to ruin anything going on regardless of what it is.
@@gamerbeast3616you’re in an abusive relationship with a video game LMAO
@@slowCPUlmao
Watching Flats and Emongg duo tank again feels like being home for Christmas with your loved ones.
There really isnt anything more you can ask for, for the holiday season, truly one of the best parts of OW's history is this legendary Tank Duo
This is such a wholesome AF take, I absolutely love it (and 100% agree).
This was the main thing I was looking forward to when I heard the 6v6 tests were coming.
I would LOVE to see them play tanks together in a 6v6 comp game where they take sh*t seriously .. that would be a joy to watch
I think hearing the phrases "this feels more like overwatch than current patch," and "tank is so much less stressful" might single handedly bring me back to try this game again
If this is what happens literally the first day of the 6v6 patch going live, imagine people actually fully adjusting to the change after 3-4 months of playtime and how much potential exists in it.
For someone like Flats who wasn't even super excited but just wanted to give it a fair shot on day-1, to already feel the improvement in gameplay is a sign of just how much benefit there is to 6v6.
I played it for some hours yesterday and most of it actually queued as dps/support to get the wholistic experience of changes, and man fights were just so much more consistent compared to 5v5. Momentum swings are more methodical, you can plan further ahead, and you can rely more on your team actually playing together more often than not due to how incentivized it is now to play around the frontline presence rather than just instantly diverting to 5 independent 1v1s any time there's a chance for it. Feels so good tbh
@@Real_MisterSir this is so real like first of all if tank dies this doesn't mean u listen the team fight and secondly tanks can be killed they don't need to be shot by the whole enemy team to be killed
I have been more stressed in 6v6 playtest than I ever have in comp. Probably a balance issue but to me the team fights feel long, drawn out, and tedious. TTK is too high.
That’s the first thing I said to my friends after playing it. I don’t like the 6v6 mode because of the way they balanced the tanks, but I LOVE having another tank. Man it’s so refreshing.
@@malekgroot yess especially that part. Tanks can be killed if they overstep their space, so while they can contest more space overall as a duo frontline, they are also more exposed if they misplay their individual cards. Makes fights much more dynamic and interesting because so many options are legit viable now both for attacking and defending positions.
Omg there is so much noise lmao
Flats explaining the scoreboard, Emmong trying to say something, the dono thing talking and the game sounds with the chaos in the background 😂
Emong is such a yapper with his rugrats ass voice
12:58
6v6 feels so natural it’s almost like they should’ve made the game 6v6 from the start???
Definitely. They just need to balance it out more properly. Like the roadhog and rein changes were kind of bogus - I wish the OW team would understand we want 6v6 for the current state of the game, not necessarily reverting back to OW1
6v6 with the balancing we have now would be so good.
Almost like OW2 never needed to happen 😂
6v6 felt great
wait til you hear about OW before it became OW2
Shout out to Flats' editor! It doesn't look like a ton of work to do some of these edits, but it takes sooo long to get them right and to feel good. Thanks for the work you do taking great content and elevating it even more!
Also, thanks to Flats for making awesome content!
"During Development we tested 5v5 and even 7v7 in all variations, they felt to imbalanced or chaotic respectively. 6v6 is the sweet spot that lets players have agency and feel their impact on the match, without one player dictating the entire pace of the match" -Jeff Kaplin (might be paraphrasing the end slightly hard to remember the exact quote from like a decade ago)
theres a reason the game was 6v6 and the new devs are gonna learn that.
There's also a reason they went to 5v5. I'm convinced it's damned if you do and damned if you don't and frankly at a minimum the 6v6 balance is shit right now. It's all over the place. With time they can probably improve it, but Idk how much. I'm feeling like if they go back to 6v6 and it's the only thing I'm stuck with I'm just gonna drop the game again like I did OW1 back in like 2018
@Rohndogg1 i agree however the team even said they would see how things go and balance from there, im cautiously optimistic about 6v6 but OW as a product not so much so..... And that wont change.
@@Rohndogg1 There was no point to OW2 after they scrapped the PvE so they needed a reason to make a new game IMO
@@Rohndogg1 6v6 is more fun, 5v5 is a thousand times easier to watch. they wanted owl to be profitable very badly
dont quote somebody unless its the real quote.
Biggest dub from this mode is getting to see Flats and Emongg tanking together.
I couldn't agree more. I stopped queueing tank 6 months ago and last night I had more fun on tank than I've had in a really long time. Not only that, I enjoyed the other roles as well. Maybe it was the lobbies that I was in, but it really felt more team oriented. I popped off on my last game and I didn't want to log off to go to bed...
Tyrannosaurus Rex and Velociraptor appeared and lived around the same time, the late cretaceous. Both lived around 90 million to 66 million years ago, the estimates do vary of course
Thank you.
Very different locations though.
@thejensonater4492 of course, just that the question was whether one was older than the other
@@dangergamer8256 Oh yeah sorry I wasn't trying to "Umm, Actually" You.
Reading this comment before (I'm assuming) getting to the part of the video that this is in reference to is amazing lol
I really just want rein to get his power steering in 6v6. Two fire strikes would be nice. But he just feels so clunky without the steering these days
Yeah I don't like 6v6 and if it IS coming back I don't trust how they planned on "testing" it. Because blizzard is so bad at balancing and finding good feedback.
Like I literally told my friends a few months ago. "They're just going to half ass the test, forget about the dps passive, and waste everyone's time".
And they somehow did it so much worse 😂.
Fellow rein main, I agree with the power steering but actually prefer one fire strike, especially if it does more damage. To me it feels like more of an impactful decision of when to use it instead of just kind of throwing it and spreading out damage
@ aye. honestly. Two fire strikes is nice but isn’t that big a deal to me. But power steering is almost a must
I have only ever been an Overwatch 2 player so I’m still new to 6v6. I did try Overwatch Classic, so I got a small taste then. I will say, my first impressions of 6v6 are mostly positive as of the first night. Playing tank feels less stressful, which I think is the main reason why I enjoy it so far. I will say that sometimes I get into a game and my team either steamrolls or gets steamrolled, playing Clash on 6v6 doesn’t always feel very good because it’s really hard to break through chokes before the capture starts (the game mode was clearly designed with 5v5 in mind), but push seems to work pretty well in the 6v6 format. So far it feels like 6v6 is much more natural.
This is exactly how I feel--"natural" absolutely nails it. I've had so much fun playing tank duos with my friend it's unreal
i found it miserable in tank, It's way too frustrating, you feel like you have an insurmountable wall unless you have the ultimates of your entire team
At the beginning I had a doubt, because the diversity of 6v6 is interesting, but at the end I don't see myself playing this all the time, far too frustrating, you just can't make play without ultimate
The fact I can play tank without wanting to toaster bath is a big sign about 5v5
Flats' chat always manages to stun me with how unhinged and just actually dumb they can be.
Yo fr💀
all he has to do is ignore chat instead he gets pissed at them. hes like raging at toddlers its so embarrassing
Common Overwatch player. You have to be dumb to keep playing consistently. Hell, imagine PAYING for anything. How stupid do you have to be for that?
@@kit5850 Ya, I feel like a lot of these twitch chatters are bating him to get him angry.
All stream chats dumb tbf. Thousands pf people who havent watched the entire stream, so you miss parts.
All their questions is the collective ignorance of thousands of people at any given time lol. Chat will always be dumb cauae youre seeing peoples dumb side
Enemy: "Tear it Down!"
Me: "Look the fuck up and SHEILD! Plz!"🥺
It's so hard to react in time.
Tbf he's mostly just been playing Rivals, so he hasn't played against Hazard much at all and wouldn't know how to play against him entirely.
I'm still trying to remember to do that on brig. It goes against instinct to look away from the threat. At least with dva bomb you have to shield by looking directly at the mech vs hazard ult where you have to look away from haz
Can you even block itvas brig? Just bash out @@jopvasquez6056
@jopvasquez6056 Definitely this. I've been playing Brig recently, and it is hard to block with such a tiny barrier. How has the inspire duration nerf affected you?
Those Twitch players are the very reason I don't find OW fun anymore; Everyone is so quick to project their own issues onto others at the very first sign of a problem. They no longer function like adults and try to solve the problem. They just scream like confused, angry toddlers. It's simply an immediate and extreme tantrum because things didn't go precisely the way they wanted.
Flat's Twitch chat experience is a perfect example of that, really. Player X is angry he wasn't glazing the game non-stop, Player Y called him a shill the moment he gave it any praise. There was no winning for him because the community showed up ready to fight over anything.
flats is an angry toddler its so easy to ingore but he cant
@@gamerbeast3616I don't think is that easy to ignore when your entire job is about being online interacting with people... If he just ignores the chat and doesn't talk what's the point on making streams instead of just uploading commentary gameplay or edits??
@@gamerbeast3616 His job is LITERALLY interacting with people on his live, thats the entire point....
@@gamerbeast3616 lil bro rolled in and just proved OP'S point instantly
@@gamerbeast3616You somehow both proved the point and completely missed it simultaneously. This is a new level.
Flats and emongg arguing about overwatch 1 feels like 2 elders in a retirement home talking about the good old days
Flats falls for the chat bait so often it hurts
Sad part is you just cant tell a streamer to be more selective with what they read or pay attention to in the chat, its something they have to learn (or not) for themselves over time. Flats regularly giving the trolls precisely what they came for
It’s a streamer’s job to interact with chat though???
Most of the ow trolls gravitate to him because they don't get the same rise out of say Emongg or KarQ. So he gets a lot of extra crap as a result.
Flats need to learn that everyone in chat is dumb and are all trolling.
@@Ital890
some big streamers hardly ever look at chat. But just for a sec lets assume that you're right and streamers do all look at chat and respond to people, for every negative troll comment there's twice as many (at least) positive or neutral comments. So it's not like they have trouble finding something positive to read out from their chat. There's tons of streamers that do this very well: respond to the positive chatters and let the mods deal with the idiots... Look I'm not Flats' dad I'm in no position to tell him how to run his stream, it just hurts me a little to see people getting stressed because of people that absolutely do not deserve the attention
watching the differens with flats playing overwatch and marvel rivals is like night and day.
he is a cry baby and when pepole tell him what to do he gets angry and insults pepole i will never get why this guy has a following
@@gamerbeast3616 the hell you here then? Weirdo
@gamerbeast3616 LMAO premium flats hater right here.
@@Pyrobull16128 premium flats glazer here sad you cant see how rude this guy is he chould easily ignore the chat but he needs to be rude because his ego cant handle it
@@gamerbeast3616Every streamer gets mad at backseaters. Seems to me like you're just hating ngl.
I’ve come to accept that Flats gets trolled by his chat way too much and comes off looking really bad.
yeah that is true but i mean twitch chat also can be kind of annoying
Yeah keeping it in the edit too is odd. I keep thinking his mediocre rants to chat will end after 10 seconds but its a full blown 2 minute interlude of him saying "wahh I don't want to be here chat is mean and overwatch is poop"
@@Lfcme homie needs to stop with ow, it's imploding him lol
lesson 1 of being a streamer is learning to not get trolled by chat in ways that arent entertaining
Yeah like 15% of every video he puts out at this point is him getting mad at chat. Not sure why it's not edited out
Played 5 games of 6v6 yesterday. 4 wins, 2 POTGs. had a great time. Constant smile.
Yikes playing OW over rivals
@@AOETAUNT Yikes, giving a damn what other people play
@@niclinker619 YIKERS bro
@@niclinker619 Yikes, you both need Jesus.
@@AOETAUNT Now I know this might sound crazy, but people are allowed to play both and like them equally, crazy concept right?
Honestly more that balance/passives, I think Bigger issue is 3 weeks won't be long enough for learning curve. You mentioned multiple times about your playstyle making more sense here, but a lot of people like myself never played OW1. The few games I've played so far felt so wrong, just because the pace was so different. Having a 2nd tank free to peel and/or dive makes me play so different. It seems fun but honestly feels like learning a completely different game
Just work with and help your other tank. Simple.
You're basically going through what every single ow1 player did with ow2. It's natural. Hope you enjoy it
Your positioning is a lot more important in 6v6, I think that's the main thing, when you learn the pace of play and habits of different tank combinations you'll be good bro. Good luck and try not to let this goofy game drive you crazy
@D_Jilla lol it's more from a support pov trying to manage my resources. Example as Moira I'm used to gauging how much dmg they will take to know how to alternate dmg/heal but kept running out from tanks playing a lot more aggressive than usual.
@@Reynos06 i see, also idk if you lvls this, but tanks HP pools were decreased so you tanks will be more squishy
As a Support player, I absolutely love it and exclusively have been queueing Support. It's been a skill check for a lot of players and I've noticed especially with Support mains, they've been caught lacking with their positioning and not reading the ebb and flow of fights. For me it felt natural and I loved how much more dynamic it was. Despite it being poorly balanced and them keeping passives, I enjoyed it so much moee than all of my 5v5 experience
When you are so used to order, chaos can be just the break you need. Spread out damage means people don’t need as much healing allowing more chances to get your own licks in, however it also means that you have to keep your eyes on multiple people because there is a whole other target to be healed and, as a second tank, it means you have two big walls to worry about keeping up
@beywheelzhater8930 I mean it's not chaos to me, I played plenty of OW1 and didn't want 5v5 in the first place lol. I main Baptiste so I'm already used to weaving in damage and keeping my eyes on multiple people haha
Soooo many supports are just incapable of understanding 2 tanks. With 5v5, supports don't really need to think much about where they're going and where they're looking. I've had many fights where one tank goes to secure point totally uncontested and full health. The other tank goes to hold the choke. Both supports mindlessly follow the first tank they saw onto point and sit there doing nothing.
Tanks are having a hard time understanding that they're not superheroes anymore and you can't "Take space" just by running into the middle of their team without a plan. It's been a lot of fun; it changes how the game plays and feels a lot more than I thought it would.
@ Honestly tanks couldn’t do that before either, they just ran into a full enemy team without a plan anyway
Rein players in particular still do this, but they are rein players. Not pressing charge would insult their lineage
To comment on Emongg’s dinosaur knowledge, Tyrannosaurus Rex and Velociraptor both lived during the same time period (Late Cretaceous period) they were just on different continents, T-Rex is from North America and Velociraptor is from Mongolia in Asia. A more accurate comparison of age to dinosaurs would be T-Rex for flats and something like stegosaurus for Emongg.
Hay random Dinosaur facts ❤️
It took all my strength not to point this out. Glad someone else did LOLL
Further fun fact: there's a 2x bigger time gap between Stegosaurus and T-Rex, than there is between T-Rex and humans. The concept of time is wild when put into context like that. So to call Emongg a Stegosaurus is akin to calling him a great great great grandpa lol
cool
17:03 this. Tank is my favorite role but only when there's two of us because I don't enjoy the stress of solo tank even when I'm winning
i tried 6v6 for the first time as an overwatch 2 only player today and i never went back it feels so much better and overall more enjoyable
I am sprite ramattra
Not the real sprite ramattra
Wow..
Nice icon
Holy hell
NO WAY
in 5v5 you notice the massive heal issues. In 6v6 you really have to position well so your healers have time to bounce between all the players needing heals
Well if there is 1 less person to heal (like in 5v5) don’t you think it’s easier?
@@danielkassie5650 the problem is theres 1 less tank to take cover, if 1 tank defends the team then the supports have to heal them and the other tank defends, but with 5v5, its just a sweep against the tank until they die, and then the teamwipe comes.
4:18 Look at how happy he is!
Agreed on the scoreboard! You can see your own damage/heal/stats during the game in rivals and everyone else’s at the end I think that’s a good change ow could adapt.
I think you very well know what he meant by "just give it a chance." From the first moment playing you had an attitude of 'I don't wanna be here, I'm not even gonna try to have fun and act like this is a giant chore.'
Flats is so mad he has to play overwatch again 🤣
Can you blame him after rivals man. That game is so much fun and such a blast vs ow a game blizzard just destroyed with the release of ow2. Rivals gives me 2016 overwatch vibes
@@imnezu8940plus it’s a new game so it makes sense
Also it's cause overwatch is still in a bad state and a lot of the changes (especially to tank) during this 6v6 were very bad like rein for the fast movement that ow2 has turned in to
I think the 6v6 tank combos are great; it's fun to just DO stuff as a tank without every single button being used on you when you step out of cover.
Rivals is going to have a really tough time trying to figure out how to get more tank players. After the honeymoon and people realize that tanks/supports are a NECESSITY, not an ACCESSORY to the main game loop, they are going to have a very tough time figuring out what is the right path.
Currently, the only reason I'm playing OW2 is that I feel like the Rivals tanks are a bit bland and don't have as much fluidity as the OW2 tanks. Spilo has a pretty good video on the topic and it's fun to play 6v6, with real synergy and combos instead of raid-bosses.
As one of those 7 tank players I agree with Flats. It is sooooo less stressful. I almost enjoy tanking when I have a buddy there to help.
As one of the people who championed 6v6, flats has gotten to the streamer point of swinging at ghosts.
This current state of overwatch content creators is all just people who dont know how to react under any level of community pressure. Treating "Chat" as one person is the fastest way to build viewer resentment.
I mostly disagree with you tbh. Chat is a single organism that makes up a collective. Saying chat doesn’t group everyone together.
What I do agree with is how he has child-like mannerisms. Example is when 5v5ers are pissing him off in chat, he lashes out at 6v6ers and vice versa. I could never personally understand the concept of venting my frustration at someone who didn’t cause me the frustration
10v10 for me honestly 0:51
Battle Royale fuck it
Why stop there I say we make a whole Battlefield lobby we should 30v30
42vs42 so every char from the roster can play at once, it's the next logical step.
I really enjoyed this test, personally for me ques were only about a minute or two so I didn't have to wait insanely long, and having a second tank by my side just felt normal yk, felt relieved of pressure and could actually have fun as a tank
Having 1 tank just breaks the game. If there’s a tank diff u automatically lose. 5v5 also means that 1 bad player will have a greater impact on the game, and it’s usually enough to lose. I remember 6v6 u could have bad teammates and still win. It also gives u more leverage to try new characters without being punished with losses
6 v 6 is dope
THE EDITOR'S NOTE AT 0:41 I'M DYING
I think the issue is characters like Rein and Mercy have just been power scaled out of having any reason to exist anymore.
This
Solution? Give Rein 3 firestrikes that two-tap, and let mercy be bad, bc her being good is hell for everyone else (moth meta, sojourn meta)
Mercy being bad is good for the game. Whenever Mercy has been meta the games are just cancer. The character shouldn’t exist
@@tumultoustortelliniTbf her pocket metas weren’t as prevalent in 6v6 since the other support has to heal two tanks on their own. Moth meta on the other hand… jfc why did they put us through that lol
@@tumultoustortellini to be fair, sojourn meta was made bc sojourn was good, mercy never received any buff that made sojourn broken, sojourn received a nerf that allowed mercy to almost revert that nerf (its true moth meta was entirely Mercy's fault tho)
4:47 Purposely not playing the right team comp somehow proves a point about balance? What are you trying to say here?
Yeah idk what he means by that “i played Rein against a counter comp on a bad map for rein to prove that the changes shouldve been made” like that doesnt prove anythingn excpet rein is bad when getting countered
The point is that you're supposed to be able to play make even in a bad comp matchup, but they removed quality of life from a few heroes that completely made them "unplayable" rather than just "bad" or "disadvantageous."
If you pick a Junkrat into a Pharah or Echo, you can still do stuff if you can't directly affect the Pharah most of the match. The removal of the QoL on Reinhardt made him too matchup dependent which is the whole reason we went to 6v6 was to get rid of the hyper tank counter swapping.
It also proves that swinging the character designs too much for a patch gives you unusable or skewed data for the 6v6 test. He was expressing that he had way too much downtime with Reinhardt for it to be useful or even really that fun. Even if it was against a bad comp matchup.
@@maskedsausage9431 honestly bro. You shouldn't have to explain this. And you probably don't need to because they probably didnt even want to read anything besides "6v6 is good"
Honestly with JQ and Doom in the tank roster I might be way more willing to play tank these days in 6v6, biggest issue in OW1 is that I just didnt like the tanks a ton
yup!
True. I only liked Sigma and Hog when playing tank.
Rein was the only tank-like tank that I enjoyed
Yep, I love Queen
And it's qp I'm only playing her
15:25 “just because I’m at t-rex and your a velociraptor doesn’t mean we’re that different” I AM DYING
I had fun because im not actually tanking on ball anymore
I'm a 6v6er and people are insufferable about it. I'm happy with marvel rivals and the 6v6 test is the most fun I've had on overwatch.
If 6v6 doesn't come back permanently I have marvel rivals.
If it does I can play both.
It's win win
laughing my eyes out at 5:08 LOOOL
I think Marvel has tilted Flats towards anything OW ..
Even as a support main it feels so good being able to split up with your other support to play with your off tank
Its so much less stressful. THIS RIGHT HERE!
As a tank player its less stressful
And also for a dps player, taking a good position and actually being able to hold that position against a tank is just so much nicer than watching their 1700000 hp tank jump across the map to remove you from high ground.
Its just so nice to be positioned well and see their winston jump over to you and be able to get them low before they touch down so then you actually get to have a bit of a bubble dance fight where both players can win if they play right.
I think it was the kingmaker gamemode where i was on a flank on soldier (as the king) and a mauger ran over to me, came in a room with me out of line of sight ofhis supports, insta used his healing, i hid, and when i came out he had no cooldowns and i could just have a straight aim duel with him and i killed him, whereas in 5v5 my only option there would be to run away, even if he made all those mistakes i would have to run.
as a tank main, 5v5 hurts me, I have to do the job of both taking space, and making sure my team isnt being jumped, while also having to take most damage being the ONLY big person in sight succks. This 6v6 although feels much more relaxed, while still maintaining the comp feel of the game, it feels like I can focus on my job, and my job alone, I have someone else splitting the "big person" damage with me, which also splits up the supports some so nobody is being heal botted and just PUMPED with HP 24/7 one tank can help our supports from being dived/diving their team while the other watches front line. or you know all the other play styles.
I miss it, this feels good, and tbh if they only make this into a future arcade mode, I am down to wait 24 min in order to play it
FLATS PLEASE, I NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE PANEL AT 0:44 IS PLEASE ANSWER IVE BEEN LOOKING FOR SO LOOOONG.
Oshi no ko chapter 152. The image is edited btw
@@auua43 godsend brother.
Why tho
Dude I love this editor, the fact they were so confused about the 7v7 was hilarious
6v6 has been so fun so far idc so much about the balance right now nothing has felt too bad in terms of balance it’s been so fun to play 6v6 again I think they need to keep QOL changes for heroes like Rein and Zarya that just made the hero feel better and not revert them just cause it’s 6v6. Thanks to the devs for bringing this back I hope they keep it.
6v6 has brought me so much joy again playing Overwatch 2, joy I haven't felt since Overwatch 1, other than Reinhart with his nerfs he didn't really need, every character I've tried feels so much fun to play, tank, dps, support, all of them just feel better, even while loosing I'm having fun, it feels balanced
There are so many toxic people who also wanted 6v6 and they would drown out actual talking points by just repeating a simplified version and not being able to elaborate, but I feel like now that it's actually being shown off people who are 5v5 will now be able to see for themselves the talking points that 6v6ers without much of a voice wanted to tell them about.
I love that Twitch chat is unironicallt acting like Twitch Chat.
man you and Emongg back together again is so good
2:34 Tf is that Cassidy's movement
The second boop in the air was a ball slam
As a gold player who started at the beginning of Ow2 and being hardstuck bronze 5 for longer than I'd like to admit. 6v6 has been the most fun I've had in the 2 years I've played. Probably not the best for yall who have played since day 1 but it is genuinely more exiting than 5v5
Try marvel rivals
@jasonmaurella2 I did it's kinda ass
Personally if 6v6 gets approved for qp and comp, I can see it as an alternate format for players to enjoy alongside 5v5, akin to Pokemon's Singles and Doubles formats having unique gameplay differences.
Yeah, but I worry about the effect on q times with 5v5, 6v6 AND open q. Not to mention 3 different games to balance.. I already think they don't do enough fast enough. This season 14 patch sucked and that's probably bc they put all their effort into the 6v6 patch
@@bennettnez4711it really isn't that hard, specially since they pretty much only care for stats. Besides, most people will most likely abandon 5v5 after a few months of 6v6
@IgorJCorrea you say that like you have years of game development experience and you didn't see the season 14 patch. Playing the game since 2016 proves that they have a hard time with balance.
@@bennettnez4711 we all know the current 6v6 tests already is easier to balance than 5v5, because that requires reworks so people don't have a miserable time, they just revealed orisa gog and mauga have the worst win rates while being the most hated tanks and used for counter picking, put that together and you have a big problem, but they are interesting heroes for 6v6 in a tank duo, which makes them not require as much from the devs and makes them more fun to play against. If they just slowly improve 6v6 I believe 5v5 will start to be irrelevant anyway, but the players will have to choose and trust me most will rather have unbalanced 6v6 than keep playing 5v5 how it is atm
@IgorJCorrea you got lost in nonsense there, I never said that wasn't going to happen. I said I don't think they can balance 3 games at once. Sure, a mode might change or die, that doesn't change what I said.
I hope this game-mode sticks around in some form and can be ironed out. The 6v6 format alone is enough to get me playing tank again despite my gripes with the balance choices made for it.
I just don't understand nerfing the fun out of the tanks for 6v6. The additions to old tanks being removed, like Roadhog trap and health breather being a resource. Just make the trap do no dmg, keep the slow and nerf the heal a bit. Removing a firestrike from Rein? Why is having something more fun than just holding a shield getting removed? Ball being able to give shield was niche but a nice addition to the gameplay.
Btw I prefer 6v6. I just don't like removing things for it, the tanks that evolved with OW2 was great. I mean just look at the new Tank and how many things he can do compared to the old ones.
Marvel Rivals just gets it. It becomes so obvious now when we have a decent game to compare things to.
Hard agree. Plus, as an experiment, it fails to reduce the number of changed variables to the experience. Whatever data they get from it will be scuffed by the inordinate number of changes they did. Was the presence of a second tank the reason it failed/succeeded, or was it the combination of changes they did? They can never know at this point.
It's worth trying for sure, trying to imagine why they reverted I think its because they're 2 years removed from OW1 balancing so instead of tuning the buffs and changes for rien and roadhog they decided it wasn't necessary since those changes were made for 5v5. In reality I think they're gonna look at statistics and say both are fine based on winrate but having modern rien in 6v6 would feel so good.
The hog secondary fire is way more interesting than the trap, nothing is lost.
They removed it cause they added it for 5v5, and right now it's an experiment.
Ball is literally 600% better in 6v6 why would you care about the shield stuff.
Marvel Rivals does not have very good tank design, only a few of them are interesting to play (Hulk, Thor and Doctor strange) while the other are pretty boring like Venom (braindead gameplay loop and shield mechanic), Magneto ( has a hard time killing anything, you just stand there and block damage) or Captain America (you just run around and do barely any damage)
Even characters like Thor are pretty dumb since you're punished for using your abilities since you have to save your charges to use the Awakening Rune.
This is maybe not obvious right now since people are still figuring out the optimal way to play characters but in a few month it will become obvious
i dont understand why they made ANY changes going into this experiment, to be frank. I know that, especially in the case of tanks, all of the heroes have been tuned up for 5v5 and it wouldn't be sustainable to keep them that way in 6v6, but I think it'd give a better idea as to what players would actually enjoy in an OW2 6v6. they took all these fun new abilities away and for what? even the tank health buff should've been kept, if only to see how that plays out in 6v6. it feels like the devs are too scared of things being a little unbalanced in a mode advertised as an experiment. this was their chance to make something interesting and new using an old format, and they just decided to play it way too safe.
Also agree with this. Playing tank in 5v5 feels horrible because every cooldown is aimed at you due to being a big target. You also can’t really do much in terms of playmaking because you’re just not as much as a threat. Which is nuts considering there’s only 2 on the field. The 6v6 question is being asked primarily for the benefit of having another tank to also help take some cooldowns off your back. The test people wanted was to see if tank felt better with someone else in the front line with you. Nerfing the absolute crap out of tanks for the 6v6 test makes tank feel even worse because not only do you still take majority of cooldowns/agro you also now can’t do anything about it. You don’t do enough consistent dmg to get solo kills, a lot of defensive abilities are less effective and have longer cooldowns, and overall less hp. I understand tanks couldn’t be dropped in the 6v6 as they were but this is overkill and doesn’t follow the overall goal of this play test. Especially since no changes to majority of the dps were made. Their job is to deal dmg so of course their dmg rates should be higher but bastion reviving no slight adjustments, cass being at 275 hp with dmg reduction on his roll, then getting a dmg buff to fan the hammer? A tank buster ability? When tanks have reduced hp? Also lifeweaver has 275 hp a self heal every what 5 seconds? So overall dps essentially stayed the same or got slight buffs to do more dmg, supports got buffed to heal more, and no cooldowns were nerfed like lamp or suzu, and tanks basically got nerfed across the board. So frontline tanks like rein can’t do anything and dice tanks like doom also can’t do anything. The goal was to see if 6v6 would be better for tanks because majority of players don’t enjoy playing tanks.
as a dinosaur enthusiest, velociraptor is not older than t. rex
NOT THE OSHI NO KO MEME 😭
I literally played this and thought “ I can’t wait for a flats video on this “
6v6 is actually straight up better. They only need better balance, like i don't get a few of these changes. But it feels so good knowing the pressure isn't on just one tank
2:48 i think they could give rein's second firestrike and steering in 6v6 and it would be just fine honestly. If that turns out to be too unbalanced, I would rather them nerf his stats and let him make more of these high skill plays, it makes the character much more fun and engaging. Stats are not engaging, fun or strategic, but intuitive depth to abilities are.
Twitch chat is kinda crazy bro. Like if this how the Overwatch community is acting, I wouldn’t blame any of the cc’s if they just full swapped to rivals 💀. Yall gotta relax man. Yall make the community feel like shit to be apart of
Who cares? It's better for the community if all these leech streamers moved on to another game they can ruin.
@@anarchistmaverick9507 thank you for proving my point dumbass 💀. You just outed yourself and it’s genuinely hilarious.
@@anarchistmaverick9507 thanks for proving my point lol
@@Rinkha_MRyou have no point, acting like these streamers are something that the community needs lol 😂
Streamers aren’t your daddy
@@anarchistmaverick9507 so if every overwatch cc left for rivals, u don’t think that’s an issue? If EVERY one stopped covering overwatch, don’t u think that’s hurts the community? It might not affect you, but a good amount of actual overwatch fans, still watch content creators.
Seing emongg and flats tank duo again heals my heart, but flats on rein feels even better
16:57 i agree on the stress part, i only started playing this game 2 months ago but im always afraid to queue for tank bc of how much the game depends on just a singular tank, lemme rephrase, the team does, whenever a team loses a team fight they put the blame on the tank, although i really do enjoy playing tanks i love making space but its hard for me to queue it while knowing ill get blamed for every small thing i do, i really hope they put the 6v6 in comp asap im so excited to see the tank combos
crazy how as soon as rivals came out overwatch went to 6v6, they think they are slick lmaoo
I am enjoying 6v6 there are pain points, but the game feels better. I played mostly Rein and it was painful bliss, I saw a lot of Ram and Sigma. I want the Tank evolutions back, Doom I fundamentally hate how his fist works, so I wish that he went back in the time machine.
“I’ll do meticulous tasks for a long period of time!” Flats has to read twitch chat
Flats can you say I love marvel rivals in your next video with no context and just stare at the camera.
odd request
i second this
Lmao editor silently having a shadowrealm fight against the 7v7 stance is so based XD hail editor
I think doing an experimental hero ban patch would be great. Then you could see what characters people despise playing against then they can take that information and see if there’s things that can be done
Instead of looking at win rate
Velociraptor is actually older than T-rex.
I've never seen a community genuinely want their game to die as badly as OW's. Just one big doomer circlejerk for some reason
The 6v6 Test has been the most fun I've had in Overwatch in a long time, especially as a Flex Player who used to do all 3 roles, but stopped when we only had the 1 Tank Role. With 2 Tanks, I feel a lot less pressure and feel a lot more able to experiment or have fun as a Tank.
Who at Blizzard could’ve ever predicted that fans would enjoy a 6v6 version of Overwatch 2? Maybe they can create a prequel, maybe just call it Overwatch! Maybe it won’t be shit either! 😂
maybe they could hire a balance team that actually plays their game instead of finger painting, picking their nose and DRINKING THE DAMN PAINT
They've said that if they were to make an official kingmaker they would make the buffs individual
Ty flats for coming back and playing and giving your feedback. At least you aren't miserable, that about sums up tanking right now. Though playing flex queue myself, I'm jealous because we keep getting rolled back into spawn by pharah and super aggressive tanks with heavy pockets. It's truly just how I remember.
Im not sure today's 6v6 is comparable to the past. I've played both and I would leave things as is. Love the channel. Trying to get like this.
Passives shouldn't be in 6v6 save for a small few like Rein taking less pushback.
Role passives ≠ Individual passives.
the best part about these playtests, is now i can play brig and boop the enemy mauga into the stratosphere
Since Marvel Rivals launched... Flats has beeing so salty in OW
Doesn't help when the whole chat is spamming go play rivals or why no rivals or something like that.
@@Rohndogg1yet all the overwatch fans get slated. It was just “ew OW”, “play rivals”. Was really annoying tbf
This is LITERALLY THE LESS STRESSED I’ve ever seen Flats playing Overwatch… like he’s just PLAYING…
That’s a good FEELING BECAUSE THAT’S HOW I felt… but didn’t feel ANY PRESSURE!!!!
6v6 is great. Wayyyy better than OW1 which was powercreep SHIELDwatch, and better than OW2 5v5 Maugawatch where I'd rather be pull teeth than solo queue Tank. The game somehow feels slower and more managable despite there being more people. I don't get it, but it just feels right. The balance at this stage already feels pretty clean. Honestly, if Tanks killing queue times is really such an issue, maybe all they need to do is make more compelling tanks. Hell, maybe we're already there.
Worst case, I'm with Flats on this one. 7v7 all the way!
This whole video felt like true Overwatch, crazy...I don't know how to explain it, it's just natural
RN the problem with Rein especially, is that a lot of the OW2 maps are made with much wider space and more angles, so as Rein you kinda just stand there and watch the enemy team run circles around you due to how much open space and how many lanes are available to them. NQ Street is probably the worst offender here, but most push maps suffer from it to some extend. There aren't really any hard points Rein can hold down, no real space that offers a big enough competitive advantage for the enemy to want to fight for it, so they can basically just ignore yo ass and do as they want to the rest of your team.
I think 6v6 further highlights some of the glaring map issues at play in the recent map additions. 5v5 is already scrappy as it is and you're expected to be less dependent on your team, so here it's not really as meaningful to have well designed maps that play properly -but in 6v6 you really need to have that map inherent game balance where there are pros and cons for all heroes. Like Hollywood, sure street phase is more catered to vertical mobility heroes but you can still play the rooftop advantage as Rein cus that rooftop matters enough for the enemy to want to contest it regardless of what hero they go up against. On a map like NQ Street you don't really have any such space where the enemy are so inclined to contest it that they'll willingly face off against a Rein who already is controlling said space -and likewise they won't hold down the space themselves if they have it and an enemy Rein pushes to contest them. They'll just fuck off and do something on other parts of the map cus the map is so insignificant that all you need is mobility and you automatically have a 100% advantage at all times.
it's not just the maps, new heroes too. Winston in classic 6v6 felt great. in this 6v6 is much worse. you do lower damage, you have longer cooldowns and now almost every hero have mobility.
@@alessiofe yea definitely there's a lot of that too, and with some of the newer tank additions being more in the Sigma direction of "can do 3 different things with no glaring weaknesses for them to play around". The kinda do-it-all tanks are exacerbating the issue to some extend, especially when high mobility and low cooldown cycles are thrown in the mix (like Hazard for example or Doom, tho I'd rather keep Doom as a tank than a DPS).
And every hero having either mobility or escape/immo options is still a major issue regardless of format. Suzu and lamp need to be looked at and I don't care how many times it has to be stated. They have never been good for the game.
Flats and Emongg doing duos again is the best part of the video.
nothing about 5v5 is better than 6v6 lol
Queue timss.....😢
@@D_Jillastarting to think queue times will always be an issue mainly because OW is just not as popular anymore. 5v5 was implemented because Blizzard knew the game was losing players and plays count was low. But by doing that they basically pushed away a lot of players who just don’t like 5v5 and that’s why they are bringing back 6v6 for testing. I think it’s more so to try and bring back that playerbase that they lost with the transition to 5v5. But honestly, I don’t think anything will make this game regain popularity and player counts will either stagnate or slowly drop for years to come. Queue times aren’t going to change.
@@LuckyMatt i think if they implement preffered role Q, allowing you to play all roles, insted if hard role lock, it would solve Q times.
@@D_Jilla that’s a fair opinion. I just have a hard time believing that a system like that won’t get abused by DPS players who pick tank as a preferred role to get shorter queue times, only to then pick DPS. I’d rather have a system of no role queue but there has to be at least 1 tank, 1 DPS, and 1 Healer picked per team. In my opinion this is the only way you fix queue times.
I like this style of editing. Idk if this is a new editor or something, but great job with this vid! very comprehensive, flowed smoothly, and prioritising commentary over gameplay is awesome to see!
let's be honest, the real reason we want 6v6 back is for flats and emongg tank duo. these guys make my day when they're together and something about them holding that frontline is just so wholesome
Flats getting angry is peak 🤌🏻
Love 6v6
I would’ve switched to rivals after chat acted like that lol
Flats, Imma be honest. I lost interest in OW over a year and a half ago. Your Rivals content has been a breath of fresh air and has brought me back to your channel. Looking forward to more Rivals stuff soon!
Don't you have interest in testing 6v6 now that it's back?
I like how much the mood changed once flats got to play with emongg
Me and friends had so much fun playing 6v6 we actually got to include everyone which was great. The game felt good for the roles. Alot of the rivals players just want to see Overwatch fail, not actually improve.
The game can't improve anymore, they have tried for years. People have given up on OW and found hope in Rivals.
They've had years and years of chances. They deserve to fail
Overwatch deserves to fail and I hope it does
Could you imagine where they make a game mode where someone on 1 team will choose a character for a role, then depending on the choice, certain characters will be removed from being selected as to try and bypass hard countering.