Thanks. I enjoy your thin client videos. This one was also interesting, and size makes it attractive for retro gamers as not everyone wants to keep a bulky computer around, and a small power-saving model could very easily be attractive. Although the expansion options on this model are surprisingly good, there are smaller thin clients (with less expandability though) that are still x86 compatible, and It'll be interesting to see how these tiny ones fare up to retro gaming with their integrated GPU's. This also reminds me, I once bought a used flat screen monitor and took it to home, and only then did I discover that a very small thin client was screwed to the monitor's VESA mount behind it :D I think the BIOS on it reported a 500 MHz AMD CPU, but I couldn't find any drivers or documentation for it. It looked pretty generic. I may dig it out again to play around with it.
Try a Wyse S90. Those had XP Embedded. 512 meg max RAM, booted off an Apacer IDE Disk On Module. A hard drive can be adapted. I'd like to see someone turn one into a retro MS-DOS game box. If the AC97 audio is fully standard compliant there *may* be DOS drivers that'll work. MS-DOS and Dr. DOS can be booted and install from a USB floppy drive. FreeDOS... is a different story. While it appears to see the IDE drive during bootup (from floppy or USB stick) the installer flat out refuses to acknowledge the unit has a hard drive. To boot from a USB stick it must be 1GB or smaller. www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/wyse/s10/index.shtml
Pretty neat little setup. Would have been nice if they gave that PCI-E slot more lanes. I realize it's because the mini PCI-E slot uses some of the available lanes but giving the custoner the option to disable the WAN and free those lanes up, would have made this an ample modern gaming system when it was new.
Ten Minute Tokyo 2 I’m hoping this isn’t the case with all distros, just about to stick in an ssd & try with Manjaro. It cost me nothing, so nothing to lose at least..
NFSU was a surprisingly CPU-heavy game. Even with an Athlon XP 2800+ that game would often drop to around 40 fps in some parts of the track. My Athlon 64 3700+ was my first machine that could run that game without ever dipping below v-sync (60 fps).
Was there much of a diffrence to the CPU Load with the GT730 compared to the HD6310 iGPU. As that may contribute slightly to what happened at lwoer resolutions. Very tempted to grab one of these because of that iGPU though.
I only captured with Afterburner overlay once I installed the GT 730. But because it's an integrated graphics and shares memory bandwidth, I think it's fair to say that the CPU takes a bit of a hit?
Thanks for uploading this video Phil. Managed to pick one up on UK Ebay for £28 posted will probably use this for XP and the Terra mini client PC for Dos and Windows 98 :)
Thanks for these informative videos. I didn't know these clients could come with a PCI-E slot that can take a GPU. Makes them a bit more flexible for e.g. emulation when you connect to CRTs for 240/288p, the new integrated Intel ones are a bit restricted in this regard.
Thanks Phil, looks like a nice little unit. Not doing much lately, Major flooding in my area over 20 days of rain in the last month. so much for our summer
Looks so cool and cute when stood up on the side with the panel off, seeing the tiny CPU and 730 fans spinning, idk what it is, I just like how that looks
PhilsComputerLab i work on a new project too :D i want to rebuild my lovely core2quad build (9550, 4gb ram, asus P5QL Pro and a R7 260x) i want this build under water with aliexpress components (2x 80mm radiators) 😎
Nice System. Thanks for the vid :) I'm running a SFF Fujitsu E5925 with Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450, 8 GB DDR2-RAM, 120GB SDD, Nvidia GT 1030 2GB as media center, its pretty powerful and cheap, can recommend it.
Damn you Phil and your good content! Now I bought one of these too, my pay check doesn't last much like this! :D I will just have to try the PCI-E slot so I can be sure what TDP it can handle, since the Quadro k600 I have around here is rated at 41 watts.
Yes, totally! I'm actually currently contemplating myself on getting T610plus as a WinXP gaming platform. I already have a Quadro K620 GPU at hand and it would be just perfect match for a fast XP machine.
@@Clemppu Yep - under both XP and even Windows 7. If you go to AMD and download the latest XP driver for a GTX 745, as best I recall the k620 driver is included in that package. Simply run the installer, let it install everything, reboot, and then go into the device manager and update the driver manually, saying you'll choose which driver to install. Uncheck the box that says show only compatible hardware, then find the GTX 745 driver and force install it. Works great. Different procedure for Windows 7 - you have to manually edit the hardware ID in about 5 different config files in the GTX 745 package and then just run the installer.
i did end up buying this about 5 months ago and so far it has been: a FreeBSD router (with 2 port NIC in pci-e slot), windows XP gaming machine (integrated AMD gpu)/ windows 7 old gaming machine (nvidia quaddro 1gb ddr3) and am currently installing windows 7 embedded on the 16gb solid state it came with. 2 things to note, there is enough room to have an ssd (if u remove the case of the ssd) 120gb AND a 2.5" laptop hdd in this case, and second i use a nvidia 710 (1gb ddr3) as the gpu and you can force the integrated GPU as well as the pci-e gpu, so i had a triple monitor setup run (however slowly) on this thing too (i have 2x 4gb ddr3 ram installed too, even tho it only runs single channel, its defo improved the integrated gpu) further looking into using an eGPU (exp beast dock v8.4via the wifi card port, running the cable out the the pci-e bay) so i can use a full size gtx 750 ti (2gb) card with this, just mainly for the lolz as ive no dobt the 1.86ghz 2 core cpu wud be a huge bottleneck. i was even thinking of adding a third drive use the IDE connector as i have a msata to ide adaptor. was thinking it cud run as a basic home media server or NAS. essentially im saying; thanks so much for the inspiration to buy this device, it has provided endless fun for a reclusive nerd like myself :) :) :) ps: snappy driver installer has become a mainstay of every retro pc build i do now, so thanks for that too!
I personally never build systems with too modern hardware for running older operating systems. I'd rather build something a bit more period correct, even though that means I can't run those older games with "modern" features such as extra AA and AF etc. But that's just me of course. I'm sure some people find the "overpowered" approach to be an excellent way of doing it.
It's too modern. And it is hard to compare pure performance of different eras of hardware. Newer hardware for example, takes less performance hit for using things like AA/AF compared to older hardware. And even 8800GT strikes me as too modern for XP. I have dual 8800M GTX in my laptop which came with Vista. As I said though, this is a matter of personal preference.
Sold ;) easy to find deals for this thin client this side of the Atlantic Ocean as well. Looking forward to test this as a win xp retro gaming machine and possibly a fourth client for my family’s Minecraft LAN parties 🎉
Just grabbed 4 of these for free. Have some extra DDR3 sodimms laying around, and mine came with Radeon FirePro graphics cards installed. Gotta figure out what to do with them :D I guess at least one will be set up for some XP gaming!
I just ordered a full size single slot HD 7750 for mine, and I hope to be able to run Radeon Dual Graphics using that. The GT1030 would lack XP drivers though.
@@garchamp9844 It's more so when it comes to 3d rendering such as gaming. You'll notice that the CPU will bottleneck the GPU's performance to more than half. :)
@@ZeoWorks Yeah, the CPU is not very powerful, but I remain confident that a more powerful GPU will let me run the games with higher FPS when all of the neat features is turned on. Time will tell. At any rate I’ll get to tinker, and that is the real prize with a project like this. Did you get Radeon Dual GPU to work with your system? And if so, which version of Catalyst were you using?
I've purchased a Wyse R90LE for 8 euro's. It also comes with a PCI-E slot (PCIE 1.1 x4) It was a steal for that price. Had a 40GB IDE 2'5 disk lying around and installed Windows XP on it. The onboard graphics and PCI-E graphic cards I had lying around, don't have windows 98 drivers though. I've a big pile of older PCI card, but they don't fit of course. I've seen some PCI-E to PCI adapters on Aliexpress and ebay. Do you think they work? I'd really like to use a small form factor retro pc with PCI-E/PCI expandability. P.S. the way you pronounce "Return to castle Wolfenstein" always makes me chuckle (in a good way).
No Far Cry?! Nani?! Jokes aside, Phil, loved when you started to test NFSu, 1nsane, Wolfenstein and some more. Would love to see you testing other games in the course of time, too!! ;)
Something good but also games that folks aren't always aware of. Firestarter, for instance, is an fps game that I used to benchmark my radeon cards a whole lot and it's also pretty customizable, has lots of features. But you gotta showcase some games you're at least good at. Star Wars Racer? Crime Cities? Homeworld Emergence? The Suffering? Pretty good games / nice graphics. Cheers and once again proudly subbed.
Good question. I had a look at similar processors and this machine already has pretty much the highest clocked CPU. Also I believe the CPU is soldered onto the motherboard.
I believe that is the case with this model of AMD CPU. There are some thin clients, however, that are supplied with a single-core AMD Sempron, that can be upgraded to a faster dual-core Turion. I don't know how that compares to the CPU in the featured model, though. This seems as good a place as any to mention this website, where a dedicated fellow buys and tries all manner of thin clients, and repurposes them. He gives hardware details, possible upgrade and mod options too. parkytowers.me.uk/thin/index.shtml Click the 'H'WARE' tab on the left to see a list of all the devices he's tried. The HPT610 is featured, and a 'Plus' tab details the extra features of the Plus model.
Hi! Nice video! Please, could you state, which version of GT730 you have used in this case: 128 bit (GF108) or 64 bit (GK208) one? Do you have any idea, what is the maximum load T610 can handle on PCI express side?
Just got around to trying XP on my recently purchased T610. I was using Snappy Driver Installer Origin, a fork of the earlier program, and it couldn't find two device drivers, both audio. I downloaded the audio driver from the ASRock link you gave, and that works fine. I don't know if SDI and SDIO use the same driver packs or not. I shall give this thin client a test with a few games and see how it does.
I like how you introduce all these small machines to us. Great idea! Btw. I had a problem with this exact Palit GT 730 model. I tried to install it to a HP motherboard IPIBL-LB and the plastic pin at the end of the PCIE socket did not allow me to fully insert the card. So I opted for a GIGABYTE model with shorter heatsink and that is perfectly fine. Did you have a problem with it on this HP?
I wish in addition to PC Retro-Gaming, you'd do some thin client reviews for emulation like booting Recalbox and seeing how they game on the tougher emulators like PPSSPP and Dolphin. These thin clients that can support a discrete GPU seem perfect for that, and since Recalbox includes Kodi (and Plex using a Kodi plugin), they'd probably work well as a media streaming device in the living room as well. Their low power usage, near silent operation, and upgrade options almost make them a perfect fit as a Gaming Console-esque device for the living room space.
I just got one of these. It doesn't seem to recognise non-UEFI USB drives at boot. I tried Easy2Boot, Rufus, Wumi and WinSetupFromUSB. They all had the same issue, they will only appear as UEFI and if force to be legacy drives, they dont show up at all. This meant I could only install XP from CD. Strange. It came with BIOS version 1.16. I updated it to 1.20 but the problem exists on both.
Serious question. When was the last time anyone here used a serial port. I think the last time I used mine was in 2003. I bought a used digital camera on ebay and they didn't include the USB adapter to download the photos from it. But they did include the serial port cable. lol
For me its either 1) On my really old systems that use the AT keyboard interface so need to use the serial for mouse 2) When I need to plug into networking equipment like switches, routers and other headless type equipment - that would include a CP/M system I'm looking at that only has a serial port just to try it out as never used CP/M.
Many professional devices are serial ports based :/ (not anymore, but if you have it, you still want to use it) such as barcode scanners, sound meters, specific industry related equipments... My sound meter only works on XP and 7 and the serial to USB adapter I bought in order to try on w10 seems to do some conflict (irq?) But it's clearly an oooooold relic. Edit : just remembered that my calculator (Ti89) had a serial connection, although I know that you can now buy USB adaptors that work well. But they came very late (like so late I never had to buy one ...)
Wow i just refurbished similiar spec MANLI T2 minipc that i got from flea market for 5€. But it vas without power supply(classic asus laptop one)and ram. :D
No optical drive could be an issue. Many games from this era have copy protection on the optical drive. How did you solve this and install the various games?
I recently bought a Dell/Wyse with the same CPU/onboard GPU, hoping to put it to work as a Lakka/Recalbox system, but I think the Linux driver support is not all it could be. I intend to see if installing a Linux distro, and then the separately available emulators will yield better performance for the more taxing systems (32-bit and above).
I just bought a T610 and upgraded it with a pair of old 2GB SO-DIMMs I had sitting around. I also ordered a Radeon HD 7570 with 1GB GDDR5 which should boost the graphics quite nicely, so I am looking forward to play some old games. But what M.2 WLAN card can I use?
I had a bunch of trouble getting Catalyst control center working with the HD 7570, but now it finally runs like a dream! If you are taking video suggestions, I would like to see you try to crossfire the integrated HD 6310 and the HD 7570 and see if the two GPUs combined can take on the GT 730. I’ll be taking notes 😃
The 630 is now as cheap and has a 2 ghz quadcore GX processor. How much single thread IPC gain you get from 1.65ghz to 2ghz is probably marginal to be honest, but 4 cores is certainly beneficial.
I am curious to see if running dual channel memory makes a difference in this system. I wish I knew these were so retro friendly. I had an opportunity to pick some up from a previous employer for nearly nothing, I wish I did now. Awesome video Phil! Any plans for other thin clients? 😀
Phil, check out the HP T620 plus model, it has a GX-420CA Quad-Core APU at 2.0 GHz with AMD Radeon HD 8400E also has PCI-E support. Seems to be the newer model to the T610.
Abyss Tech, I don't think it's good enough anymore, even with TH-cam and Netflix using vp9 and x265 being more and more commun. I have a T9400 with an ati 3650 mobility and I'm always at 50% min CPU usage when YouTubing 1080p 60fps or 720p 60fps. And x265 is almost out of the question. I don't think the 6230 has good hardware acceleration capabilities, you'd be better buying an Android stick for almost the same price (and use a USB HDD or a Nas)
T610 model is just runing as HTPC and small data server :) now i need to setup T610+ the same way :) btw. i got my to work with 2 2.5" HDD, hehehh you will just need to make some SATA cabels. (made my from old PATA 40 cable)
Phil mentioned the GT 1030 already, but there are some other low profile (and lower cost) cards you can try out. The HD 7570 (1GB DDR5), HD 8490 (1GB DDR3), HD 8570 (2GB DDR5), and R7 450 (4GB DDR3) are good alternatives. These cards work fine with Windows XP, 7, and 10. The 1030 can play a lot of newer games with low to medium settings and older games with highest settings. The 4 AMD cards mentioned above work great, too, but are not as good as the 1030 for new game titles. Please note that you will need a single slot graphics cards for use in the T610 thin client and in most USFF and SFF PCs with exception of some units such as the HP Elite 8300 where you can use a dual slot, low profile GPU like the GTX 1050 TI.
What a surprise... got this unit today and just wanted to know if anyone has already put in a dedicated graphics card... For now, i installed an extra 4gb ram and a fresh new 120gb ssd and my pc is creating a windows installation usb drive.
I just ordered one of these thinclients off eBay, I plan to put a 120gb SSD in and for now 4 gig of ram, I plan to use it as a media center, at the moment I am using a Dell optiplex but I think it is UGLY under my TV. I will let you know how it works out.
Hey Phil, I bought one of these from the same seller. I bought a Grade B EVGA 730 Low Profile GPU, I tested it first in one of my rigs works fine np. Place it inside of this and fan spins but no video out. Was trying to figure out if there is a BIOS setting that might be causing this I restored BIOS to defaults and disabled the same ports you did and still no picture?
Hi there, I actually have 2x of these which I use as a htpc for my parents. Do you have any idea what type of screws are used for the mini PCIe card? It doesn’t seem to be the standard laptop screws so it’s extremely difficult to keep the wifi card down
It turns out the screw size is m1.6 which isn’t the standard laptop screw size of m2 The T620 thin client also uses m1.6 size screws to hold down the msata and mini PCI-e cards too
Hey Phil, decided to buy one of these thin clients for a cheap compact XP build, I managed to find the same graphics card you used also, also picked up a 60gb SSD (I know small, but still enough for my use) ... Now I'm having trouble with installing XP, I've tried the USB method with no luck, I've tried an external USB CDROM and no luck ..now I'm wondering if it's possible to install XP on another machine and just move the SSD and then install drivers etc
The issue is with loading the SATA AHCI driver during the installation. When you use Easy2Boot method, you need to install the Easy2Boot version with the SATA AHCI driver!
Hey Phil, I want to use T610 as an arcade mashine to output 15khz, is this integrated Radeon HD 6320 has an analog VGA output? I mean when i connect simple DVI-->VGA adapter it will be working?
Gutted as these would have been handy as a remote desktop pc to connect to my editing and render box. £300 in uk Always hated branded name oem but some of these hp builds have been amazing finds at amazing prices
@@philscomputerlab set up a google alert if any come up for sale. As it would compliment my z220 set ups and 8300 elite. Not a hp fan boy just loving the performance to price of some of their stuff. Fingers crossed i can find one then max it out as a remote pc for rdp editing.
Does this machine support Windows 98? I recall in your previous videos Windows 98 outperforms XP. If drivers etc are available under Windows 98 I wonder if this little machine would perform better in comparison.
@@philscomputerlab Even Windows 2000 is too modern for this thin client, which was first released in 2012, approximately two years after Windows 2000 has reached the end of its lifecycle.
@@philscomputerlab Maybe not, but at least Windows XP is backward compatible with most Win9x games, although some games, such as "Full Tilt! Pinball," can only be installed in Compatibility Mode.
Hello, is it possible to install win 98 SE on this pc? I added 120gb sdd drive for win xp only and it works fine. Then I removed this ssd and keep only original 16 gb flash memory, then installed win 98 SE via usb (according to your manual how to create bootable win 98 usb). Installation was ok, 100% and request to reboot. but after reboot it stuck on windows 98 booting screen, looks like it is booting but nothing is happening. Could you help me please?
It's sad the chip is soldered in on this thing. :/ I got my sister's old eMachines laptop with a single core 2ghz CPU, and it had a legit AM2 socket in it, and I upgraded it with a 2.6ghz dual core E series CPU and it ran stable on a crappy laptop fan, this fan looks bigger than the one in my laptop.
snappy driver isntaller?? clean and safe i use this installer for 3-4 years and no problem any issue is the recycle of olfer drivers to reach max 15,5gb od size :/
I want to get one and put my radeon pro wx5100 in one but I think the cpu is going to bottle neck the heck out of it, do you know of any other computers similar to this being able to fit a gpu vertically but just more powerful?
What version of the BIOS upgrade tool did you download from HP? And how did you run it? I get '*file* is not a valid Win32 application' error no matter which version I try to run on my T610.
@@philscomputerlab Hard to say, they don’t exactly have a WinXP version available, and I have no experience with Win7 embedded or Server 2009. I’ll try to run it like a DOS application though, thanks.
The gt 730 seems to be heavily bottlenecked, utilization is around 20% and thats at high resolution and settings? Maybe its better to use the integrated radeon and use the slot for a sound card?
Phil did you have any issues installing Windows XP on this machine? My friend purchased one and im trying to install XP for him im using easy2boot and tried several isos and the machine gets stuck at the screen before the formatting option all I get is a blue screen saying setup is starting windows and nothing happens, ive also tried different hard drives but no joy I expect some option needs disabling in the bios.
@@philscomputerlab yes no problem with Windows 10 im using an sata ssd ive even tried a normal sata drive no joy very strange never had this problem on other machines with xp.
Thanks for replying Phil no joy with my original XP cd but managed to get an XP media center iso to work not sure why that should and my original cd wouldnt very weird?!
@@keithbeesting If your original Windows XP CD doesn't include Service Pack 2, I'd recommend installing nLite on your main computer and slipstreaming Service Pack 3 into your original Windows XP CD.
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Its amazing how good these old PC games still look.
Thanks. I enjoy your thin client videos. This one was also interesting, and size makes it attractive for retro gamers as not everyone wants to keep a bulky computer around, and a small power-saving model could very easily be attractive. Although the expansion options on this model are surprisingly good, there are smaller thin clients (with less expandability though) that are still x86 compatible, and It'll be interesting to see how these tiny ones fare up to retro gaming with their integrated GPU's. This also reminds me, I once bought a used flat screen monitor and took it to home, and only then did I discover that a very small thin client was screwed to the monitor's VESA mount behind it :D I think the BIOS on it reported a 500 MHz AMD CPU, but I couldn't find any drivers or documentation for it. It looked pretty generic. I may dig it out again to play around with it.
Thanks man! There is more to come, and I'm getting the hang of these machines.
Try a Wyse S90. Those had XP Embedded. 512 meg max RAM, booted off an Apacer IDE Disk On Module. A hard drive can be adapted. I'd like to see someone turn one into a retro MS-DOS game box. If the AC97 audio is fully standard compliant there *may* be DOS drivers that'll work. MS-DOS and Dr. DOS can be booted and install from a USB floppy drive. FreeDOS... is a different story. While it appears to see the IDE drive during bootup (from floppy or USB stick) the installer flat out refuses to acknowledge the unit has a hard drive. To boot from a USB stick it must be 1GB or smaller. www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/wyse/s10/index.shtml
Thanks, Phil Snappy Drivers is great. Really like your videos, I get gems like this from you a lot.
Pretty neat little setup. Would have been nice if they gave that PCI-E slot more lanes. I realize it's because the mini PCI-E slot uses some of the available lanes but giving the custoner the option to disable the WAN and free those lanes up, would have made this an ample modern gaming system when it was new.
9:57 Because the T610 Plus is from HP, it's extremely well documented, you can download the latest GNU/Linux.
Yea good point, I'm only starting to muck around with Linux :) At the moment playing around with Lubuntu.
Most Linux distros will not install onto these machines. Both Ubuntu Server and Zorin hang.
Ten Minute Tokyo 2 I’m hoping this isn’t the case with all distros, just about to stick in an ssd & try with Manjaro. It cost me nothing, so nothing to lose at least..
NFSU was a surprisingly CPU-heavy game. Even with an Athlon XP 2800+ that game would often drop to around 40 fps in some parts of the track. My Athlon 64 3700+ was my first machine that could run that game without ever dipping below v-sync (60 fps).
Steve F and it's only using 1 core :(
Was there much of a diffrence to the CPU Load with the GT730 compared to the HD6310 iGPU. As that may contribute slightly to what happened at lwoer resolutions. Very tempted to grab one of these because of that iGPU though.
I only captured with Afterburner overlay once I installed the GT 730. But because it's an integrated graphics and shares memory bandwidth, I think it's fair to say that the CPU takes a bit of a hit?
PhilsComputerLab: Definitely a point, could just be something to do with driver overhead, and how each of the cards deals with older APIs.
And AMD Fine Wine in Quake III :D
PLEASE BUDGET BUILDS DO THIS (can it run crisis
Why have I never heard of Snappy Drivers until now!?
ond more good tool DLC BOOT its same same as Hiren boot cd
Snappy driver is not a good source for drivers most of these drivers are bullshit and never work right. You are taking a risk by using that software
Using Snappy Driver Installer Origin is the best way of installing drivers
Thanks for uploading this video Phil. Managed to pick one up on UK Ebay for £28 posted will probably use this for XP and the Terra mini client PC for Dos and Windows 98 :)
Thanks for these informative videos. I didn't know these clients could come with a PCI-E slot that can take a GPU. Makes them a bit more flexible for e.g. emulation when you connect to CRTs for 240/288p, the new integrated Intel ones are a bit restricted in this regard.
Thanks Phil, looks like a nice little unit. Not doing much lately, Major flooding in my area over 20 days of rain in the last month. so much for our summer
Looks so cool and cute when stood up on the side with the panel off, seeing the tiny CPU and 730 fans spinning, idk what it is, I just like how that looks
Thank you phil, i downloaded the whole library of snappy driver 🥰 thank you so much
Nice! I use it all the time, in fact just now as I work on a new Windows XP Retro PC Gaming project :D
PhilsComputerLab i work on a new project too :D i want to rebuild my lovely core2quad build (9550, 4gb ram, asus P5QL Pro and a R7 260x) i want this build under water with aliexpress components (2x 80mm radiators) 😎
one of the other reasons why it's being held back is that the CPU is single-channel only for memory access.
I'm still loving the way you kill enemies in return to castle wolfenstein haha
This time, the evil professor turned around before he got stabbed, I noticed, and got a shot or two off!
Same, I usually go slow.
Nice setup! I always thought thin clients were cool, but adding a dedicated graphics card makes it even cooler!
Nice System. Thanks for the vid :)
I'm running a SFF Fujitsu E5925 with Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450, 8 GB DDR2-RAM, 120GB SDD, Nvidia GT 1030 2GB as media center, its pretty powerful and cheap, can recommend it.
XGreenThumb which OS?
This channel is turning into thin client central. Just joking, thanks for great content
I bought the same little thinclient. I want to test a Quadro P600 i a few weeks. We will see, how it performs :))) thx für the driver 😁
Damn you Phil and your good content! Now I bought one of these too, my pay check doesn't last much like this! :D
I will just have to try the PCI-E slot so I can be sure what TDP it can handle, since the Quadro k600 I have around here is rated at 41 watts.
I'd love to see a revisit of this pc and how it does in 2020/21.
Yes, totally! I'm actually currently contemplating myself on getting T610plus as a WinXP gaming platform. I already have a Quadro K620 GPU at hand and it would be just perfect match for a fast XP machine.
@@Clemppu The k620 is a fantastic card - you can actually install it as a GeForce GTX 745.
@@bmwolgas Really? That's interesting!
@@Clemppu Yep - under both XP and even Windows 7. If you go to AMD and download the latest XP driver for a GTX 745, as best I recall the k620 driver is included in that package. Simply run the installer, let it install everything, reboot, and then go into the device manager and update the driver manually, saying you'll choose which driver to install. Uncheck the box that says show only compatible hardware, then find the GTX 745 driver and force install it. Works great. Different procedure for Windows 7 - you have to manually edit the hardware ID in about 5 different config files in the GTX 745 package and then just run the installer.
@@bmwolgas thanks!
Found a listing on UK eBay, someone is selling them with the same specs with PSU for £38. An absolute bargain, tempted to get one myself!
Great video man, helped me get my t610 loaded up with xp, having some trouble finding drivers though, that ASrock link is dead.
i did end up buying this about 5 months ago and so far it has been:
a FreeBSD router (with 2 port NIC in pci-e slot),
windows XP gaming machine (integrated AMD gpu)/
windows 7 old gaming machine (nvidia quaddro 1gb ddr3)
and am currently installing windows 7 embedded on the 16gb solid state it came with.
2 things to note, there is enough room to have an ssd (if u remove the case of the ssd) 120gb AND a 2.5" laptop hdd in this case, and second i use a nvidia 710 (1gb ddr3) as the gpu and you can force the integrated GPU as well as the pci-e gpu,
so i had a triple monitor setup run (however slowly) on this thing too (i have 2x 4gb ddr3 ram installed too, even tho it only runs single channel, its defo improved the integrated gpu)
further looking into using an eGPU (exp beast dock v8.4via the wifi card port, running the cable out the the pci-e bay) so i can use a full size gtx 750 ti (2gb) card with this, just mainly for the lolz as ive no dobt the 1.86ghz 2 core cpu wud be a huge bottleneck. i was even thinking of adding a third drive use the IDE connector as i have a msata to ide adaptor.
was thinking it cud run as a basic home media server or NAS.
essentially im saying; thanks so much for the inspiration to buy this device, it has provided endless fun for a reclusive nerd like myself :) :) :)
ps: snappy driver installer has become a mainstay of every retro pc build i do now, so thanks for that too!
Snappy driver installer FTW.
Certainly an interesting machines that’s more capable than your average thin client.
I personally never build systems with too modern hardware for running older operating systems. I'd rather build something a bit more period correct, even though that means I can't run those older games with "modern" features such as extra AA and AF etc. But that's just me of course. I'm sure some people find the "overpowered" approach to be an excellent way of doing it.
Wasn't the 730 the rough equivalent of an 8800 GT?
It's too modern. And it is hard to compare pure performance of different eras of hardware. Newer hardware for example, takes less performance hit for using things like AA/AF compared to older hardware. And even 8800GT strikes me as too modern for XP. I have dual 8800M GTX in my laptop which came with Vista. As I said though, this is a matter of personal preference.
But wouldn't he have issues running an 8800GT in a thin client due to the power consumption being too high?
Amazing performance for the price. I supose it could support a AMD R7 240 LFF too. A very recomendable Retro Gaming PC
This will be perfect for when I go off to college for my dorm!
Sold ;) easy to find deals for this thin client this side of the Atlantic Ocean as well. Looking forward to test this as a win xp retro gaming machine and possibly a fourth client for my family’s Minecraft LAN parties 🎉
Definitely a cute little device it definitely looks like a beast for being so small though
not bad of a small pc, would be great for ppl that dont have room and want to have a dedicated xp machine
Just grabbed 4 of these for free. Have some extra DDR3 sodimms laying around, and mine came with Radeon FirePro graphics cards installed. Gotta figure out what to do with them :D I guess at least one will be set up for some XP gaming!
I'm surprise of how close is to a modern full pc. I wonder how well would it be with batocera Linux for emulation.
Just a small nitpick, but the audio is slightly echoing. Other than that the video is great! nice work.
Surely a HD7750 or a GT1030 would also work in this machine with that lovely 90watt PSU? :)
I just ordered a full size single slot HD 7750 for mine, and I hope to be able to run Radeon Dual Graphics using that. The GT1030 would lack XP drivers though.
@@garchamp9844 Hi, Yeah I also tried this. :)
However I noticed that both the GT 1030 and the HD7750 hit heavy bottlenecks due to the cpu.
@@ZeoWorks At what resolution? I run a 1680x1050 monitor, and my old GPU (Radeon HD 7570) would be the bottleneck most of the time.
@@garchamp9844 It's more so when it comes to 3d rendering such as gaming. You'll notice that the CPU will bottleneck the GPU's performance to more than half. :)
@@ZeoWorks Yeah, the CPU is not very powerful, but I remain confident that a more powerful GPU will let me run the games with higher FPS when all of the neat features is turned on. Time will tell. At any rate I’ll get to tinker, and that is the real prize with a project like this. Did you get Radeon Dual GPU to work with your system? And if so, which version of Catalyst were you using?
It's got all the connections you could want for a nice little xp gaming machine.
I've purchased a Wyse R90LE for 8 euro's. It also comes with a PCI-E slot (PCIE 1.1 x4) It was a steal for that price. Had a 40GB IDE 2'5 disk lying around and installed Windows XP on it. The onboard graphics and PCI-E graphic cards I had lying around, don't have windows 98 drivers though. I've a big pile of older PCI card, but they don't fit of course. I've seen some PCI-E to PCI adapters on Aliexpress and ebay. Do you think they work? I'd really like to use a small form factor retro pc with PCI-E/PCI expandability.
P.S. the way you pronounce "Return to castle Wolfenstein" always makes me chuckle (in a good way).
Enjoyed the video. Nice build at all...!
Hello Phil, I love your video's. just great. Can I also install WIN 98 or are there driver problems? greetings from Switzerland
No, this machine is PCIe based and far too modern for Windows 98...
No Far Cry?! Nani?!
Jokes aside, Phil, loved when you started to test NFSu, 1nsane, Wolfenstein and some more. Would love to see you testing other games in the course of time, too!! ;)
Anything suitable from GOG shouldn't be a problem. What do you recommend?
Something good but also games that folks aren't always aware of. Firestarter, for instance, is an fps game that I used to benchmark my radeon cards a whole lot and it's also pretty customizable, has lots of features. But you gotta showcase some games you're at least good at. Star Wars Racer? Crime Cities? Homeworld Emergence? The Suffering? Pretty good games / nice graphics. Cheers and once again proudly subbed.
Nice little machine, I'm tempted to get one. Can you upgrade the CPU?
Good question. I had a look at similar processors and this machine already has pretty much the highest clocked CPU. Also I believe the CPU is soldered onto the motherboard.
I believe that is the case with this model of AMD CPU. There are some thin clients, however, that are supplied with a single-core AMD Sempron, that can be upgraded to a faster dual-core Turion. I don't know how that compares to the CPU in the featured model, though.
This seems as good a place as any to mention this website, where a dedicated fellow buys and tries all manner of thin clients, and repurposes them. He gives hardware details, possible upgrade and mod options too.
parkytowers.me.uk/thin/index.shtml Click the 'H'WARE' tab on the left to see a list of all the devices he's tried. The HPT610 is featured, and a 'Plus' tab details the extra features of the Plus model.
Hi!
Nice video!
Please, could you state, which version of GT730 you have used in this case: 128 bit (GF108) or 64 bit (GK208) one?
Do you have any idea, what is the maximum load T610 can handle on PCI express side?
Hmm I'm not sure!
I rebuilt that machine with a GT730 GF108 4GB DDR3: Get only 15.5k in 2003 and 12.5k in2001SE, so Phil is most likely using a GT730 GK208 with GDDR5
I think that this thing could be overheating...
But its stock performance surprised me! It isnt so bad as I thought it would be.
Just got around to trying XP on my recently purchased T610. I was using Snappy Driver Installer Origin, a fork of the earlier program, and it couldn't find two device drivers, both audio. I downloaded the audio driver from the ASRock link you gave, and that works fine. I don't know if SDI and SDIO use the same driver packs or not. I shall give this thin client a test with a few games and see how it does.
I like how you introduce all these small machines to us. Great idea! Btw. I had a problem with this exact Palit GT 730 model. I tried to install it to a HP motherboard IPIBL-LB and the plastic pin at the end of the PCIE socket did not allow me to fully insert the card. So I opted for a GIGABYTE model with shorter heatsink and that is perfectly fine. Did you have a problem with it on this HP?
Hmm I don't remember having any issues. I used this HP SFF machine for the Low Profile graphics card roundup.
I wish in addition to PC Retro-Gaming, you'd do some thin client reviews for emulation like booting Recalbox and seeing how they game on the tougher emulators like PPSSPP and Dolphin. These thin clients that can support a discrete GPU seem perfect for that, and since Recalbox includes Kodi (and Plex using a Kodi plugin), they'd probably work well as a media streaming device in the living room as well. Their low power usage, near silent operation, and upgrade options almost make them a perfect fit as a Gaming Console-esque device for the living room space.
Doesn't interest me whatsoever, and I'm sure there a lot of channels that do emulators, and know a lot more about the topic.
I just got one of these. It doesn't seem to recognise non-UEFI USB drives at boot. I tried Easy2Boot, Rufus, Wumi and WinSetupFromUSB. They all had the same issue, they will only appear as UEFI and if force to be legacy drives, they dont show up at all.
This meant I could only install XP from CD. Strange. It came with BIOS version 1.16. I updated it to 1.20 but the problem exists on both.
Nice, Do you think work well with the radeon r5 240?
Serious question. When was the last time anyone here used a serial port. I think the last time I used mine was in 2003. I bought a used digital camera on ebay and they didn't include the USB adapter to download the photos from it. But they did include the serial port cable. lol
For me its either 1) On my really old systems that use the AT keyboard interface so need to use the serial for mouse 2) When I need to plug into networking equipment like switches, routers and other headless type equipment - that would include a CP/M system I'm looking at that only has a serial port just to try it out as never used CP/M.
Many professional devices are serial ports based :/ (not anymore, but if you have it, you still want to use it) such as barcode scanners, sound meters, specific industry related equipments... My sound meter only works on XP and 7 and the serial to USB adapter I bought in order to try on w10 seems to do some conflict (irq?) But it's clearly an oooooold relic.
Edit : just remembered that my calculator (Ti89) had a serial connection, although I know that you can now buy USB adaptors that work well. But they came very late (like so late I never had to buy one ...)
Wow i just refurbished similiar spec MANLI T2 minipc that i got from flea market for 5€. But it vas without power supply(classic asus laptop one)and ram. :D
Random question, if installing a PCI video card, like the GT730, can you (and how is this possible) regain the ram the onboard radeon uses?
Yea that should be the case!
What motherboard from ASRock did you get the drivers from? Was it the A55, A55 Pro3, or another one?
mesterak Link in description.
No optical drive could be an issue. Many games from this era have copy protection on the optical drive. How did you solve this and install the various games?
Most games I feature in my videos are from GOG, easy to install from a USB Hard Drive.
I recently bought a Dell/Wyse with the same CPU/onboard GPU, hoping to put it to work as a Lakka/Recalbox system, but I think the Linux driver support is not all it could be. I intend to see if installing a Linux distro, and then the separately available emulators will yield better performance for the more taxing systems (32-bit and above).
I just bought a T610 and upgraded it with a pair of old 2GB SO-DIMMs I had sitting around. I also ordered a Radeon HD 7570 with 1GB GDDR5 which should boost the graphics quite nicely, so I am looking forward to play some old games. But what M.2 WLAN card can I use?
Why not use a USB wireless dongle? They are cheap and easy to use :) Also eager to see how you go with that Radeon?
I had a bunch of trouble getting Catalyst control center working with the HD 7570, but now it finally runs like a dream! If you are taking video suggestions, I would like to see you try to crossfire the integrated HD 6310 and the HD 7570 and see if the two GPUs combined can take on the GT 730. I’ll be taking notes 😃
Do you think if is possible sound card support on MSDOS on this machine?
The 630 is now as cheap and has a 2 ghz quadcore GX processor. How much single thread IPC gain you get from 1.65ghz to 2ghz is probably marginal to be honest, but 4 cores is certainly beneficial.
I am curious to see if running dual channel memory makes a difference in this system. I wish I knew these were so retro friendly. I had an opportunity to pick some up from a previous employer for nearly nothing, I wish I did now. Awesome video Phil! Any plans for other thin clients? 😀
Yea there will be others, but I don't want to over-do it. Do let me know if anything seems interesting, I can take a look.
Phil, check out the HP T620 plus model, it has a GX-420CA Quad-Core APU at 2.0 GHz with AMD Radeon HD 8400E also has PCI-E support. Seems to be the newer model to the T610.
Are there any Windows XP drivers for Kabini based SoCs?
Something like that would make for a great HTPC.
Abyss Tech, I don't think it's good enough anymore, even with TH-cam and Netflix using vp9 and x265 being more and more commun. I have a T9400 with an ati 3650 mobility and I'm always at 50% min CPU usage when YouTubing 1080p 60fps or 720p 60fps. And x265 is almost out of the question. I don't think the 6230 has good hardware acceleration capabilities, you'd be better buying an Android stick for almost the same price (and use a USB HDD or a Nas)
I was lucky to get mine for $10 NZD with a power adapter and installed a Dell HD 8570 1GB for a Windows XP gaming PC.
T610 model is just runing as HTPC and small data server :)
now i need to setup T610+ the same way :)
btw. i got my to work with 2 2.5" HDD, hehehh you will just need to make some SATA cabels. (made my from old PATA 40 cable)
I'm getting one to turn into a pfsense router, I'm getting a t620+ to make into a general purpose linux box
Great video as always Phil, the 730 is a bit of a downer but you don't have an alternative rn for winxp
Yea, look if there is an interest to check out Windows 10 / GT 1030 performance, I can do that for future Thin Client projects...
Phil mentioned the GT 1030 already, but there are some other low profile (and lower cost) cards you can try out. The HD 7570 (1GB DDR5), HD 8490 (1GB DDR3), HD 8570 (2GB DDR5), and R7 450 (4GB DDR3) are good alternatives. These cards work fine with Windows XP, 7, and 10. The 1030 can play a lot of newer games with low to medium settings and older games with highest settings. The 4 AMD cards mentioned above work great, too, but are not as good as the 1030 for new game titles. Please note that you will need a single slot graphics cards for use in the T610 thin client and in most USFF and SFF PCs with exception of some units such as the HP Elite 8300 where you can use a dual slot, low profile GPU like the GTX 1050 TI.
Any chance that we can use a 1030 in Windows XP? I can't find anything online
TheTarasque nope I think the minimum direct x version is the problem
I have not seen drivers for XP for the 1030. Nvidia web site should identify the requirements
What a surprise... got this unit today and just wanted to know if anyone has already put in a dedicated graphics card...
For now, i installed an extra 4gb ram and a fresh new 120gb ssd and my pc is creating a windows installation usb drive.
Would you recommend your setup for emulation? PSP ,dreamcast, ps2, etc? And can you upgrade the processor?
cpu is not upgradeable
Tried to install win xp, from several different sources. Installation allways hangs at Windows Setup screen
I laughed when the solider asked if everything is alright then bam, bam, bam, bam!
what about gt 740 ? or gt 1030 ? will it get more fps or is the cpu bottleneck for these gpus ?
I just ordered one of these thinclients off eBay, I plan to put a 120gb SSD in and for now 4 gig of ram, I plan to use it as a media center, at the moment I am using a Dell optiplex but I think it is UGLY under my TV. I will let you know how it works out.
I will also run it on windows 10
nice and informative video keep it up. please tell me where we can download a ethernet driver
Hello, can you tell me can procesor be upgraded?
Hey Phil, I bought one of these from the same seller. I bought a Grade B EVGA 730 Low Profile GPU, I tested it first in one of my rigs works fine np. Place it inside of this and fan spins but no video out. Was trying to figure out if there is a BIOS setting that might be causing this I restored BIOS to defaults and disabled the same ports you did and still no picture?
Hi there, I actually have 2x of these which I use as a htpc for my parents. Do you have any idea what type of screws are used for the mini PCIe card? It doesn’t seem to be the standard laptop screws so it’s extremely difficult to keep the wifi card down
No idea. The cards usually come with one?
It turns out the screw size is m1.6 which isn’t the standard laptop screw size of m2
The T620 thin client also uses m1.6 size screws to hold down the msata and mini PCI-e cards too
Hey Phil, decided to buy one of these thin clients for a cheap compact XP build, I managed to find the same graphics card you used also, also picked up a 60gb SSD (I know small, but still enough for my use) ...
Now I'm having trouble with installing XP, I've tried the USB method with no luck, I've tried an external USB CDROM and no luck ..now I'm wondering if it's possible to install XP on another machine and just move the SSD and then install drivers etc
The issue is with loading the SATA AHCI driver during the installation. When you use Easy2Boot method, you need to install the Easy2Boot version with the SATA AHCI driver!
@@philscomputerlab perfect, thankyou :)
I want to make a windows 7/8 budget machine,is dat possible or thin clients are only capable of retro gaming
Can you please make a League of Legends benchmark for this pc? Thanks!
Hey Phil, I want to use T610 as an arcade mashine to output 15khz, is this integrated Radeon HD 6320 has an analog VGA output? I mean when i connect simple DVI-->VGA adapter it will be working?
Yes, you can use a DVI to VGA Adapter with the stock iGPU DVI port.
Gutted as these would have been handy as a remote desktop pc to connect to my editing and render box. £300 in uk Always hated branded name oem but some of these hp builds have been amazing finds at amazing prices
300 Quid? LOL yea that's just stupid.
@@philscomputerlab set up a google alert if any come up for sale. As it would compliment my z220 set ups and 8300 elite. Not a hp fan boy just loving the performance to price of some of their stuff. Fingers crossed i can find one then max it out as a remote pc for rdp editing.
@@philscomputerlab found one got it for £45 at last. Seams good with linux bodhi for rdp video editing.
@@salaciouscreations4323 Nice.
Does this machine support Windows 98? I recall in your previous videos Windows 98 outperforms XP. If drivers etc are available under Windows 98 I wonder if this little machine would perform better in comparison.
It does not, it's way to modern with PCIe and unsupported chipset.
Ahhhh thought as much, thank you for letting me know.
Unless it's one of those rare LGA 775 mobos that supports it, just rule out any PCIe mobos for 98.
@@philscomputerlab Even Windows 2000 is too modern for this thin client, which was first released in 2012, approximately two years after Windows 2000 has reached the end of its lifecycle.
@@philscomputerlab Maybe not, but at least Windows XP is backward compatible with most Win9x games, although some games, such as "Full Tilt! Pinball," can only be installed in Compatibility Mode.
How many RAM we can Share for the GPU. It would be nice if we can allocated more than 1GB of ram for the GPU?!
i have a quadro k2200 which is a gtx 750ti with 4 gigs of ram but the cooler extends past the card...I dont think it will work in this
Kyle S you could always use an extension ribbon cable and mount the card outside of the case
@@mesterak sure i could use a pci-e extension but it would look ghetto as fuck and i would never be able to close the case correctly
Hi Phil, the video link is broken where an I find the video drivers?
Hello, is it possible to install win 98 SE on this pc? I added 120gb sdd drive for win xp only and it works fine. Then I removed this ssd and keep only original 16 gb flash memory, then installed win 98 SE via usb (according to your manual how to create bootable win 98 usb). Installation was ok, 100% and request to reboot. but after reboot it stuck on windows 98 booting screen, looks like it is booting but nothing is happening. Could you help me please?
Phil if possible upgrade the cpu and with gpu a gt 1030.
Phil how did you remove the VGA connecter on the GT730 did it just unscrew (im only asking as ive got the same card on its we to me). Many thanks.
Yea just unscrew :)
It's sad the chip is soldered in on this thing. :/ I got my sister's old eMachines laptop with a single core 2ghz CPU, and it had a legit AM2 socket in it, and I upgraded it with a 2.6ghz dual core E series CPU and it ran stable on a crappy laptop fan, this fan looks bigger than the one in my laptop.
Can this boot win 98 and dos while still having drivers for the video card?
is snappy driver a safe program? you know adware trojan stuff?
snappy driver isntaller?? clean and safe i use this installer for 3-4 years and no problem any issue is the recycle of olfer drivers to reach max 15,5gb od size :/
Where can safely download Bios updates for discontinued HP products? My HP SFF s3300f bios updates is no longer available for download at HP website.
I got the BIOS from the HP website!
Chris Bautista try the HP website with the Wayback Machine if you can't find it on the modern website
SSC3034 ^ that's right
My PC is HP z200, got the v2 BIOS from HP website.
Either a NAS or a PC for Kodi/Plex, not retro XP gaming. Those numbers on Doom 3 are quite odd. Driver version issue perhaps?
I want to get one and put my radeon pro wx5100 in one but I think the cpu is going to bottle neck the heck out of it, do you know of any other computers similar to this being able to fit a gpu vertically but just more powerful?
What version of the BIOS upgrade tool did you download from HP? And how did you run it? I get '*file* is not a valid Win32 application' error no matter which version I try to run on my T610.
I don't remember the details, but it was fairly straight forward. Maybe it was to be run from DOS or something like that?
@@philscomputerlab Hard to say, they don’t exactly have a WinXP version available, and I have no experience with Win7 embedded or Server 2009. I’ll try to run it like a DOS application though, thanks.
the power brick input we call it the Micky Mouse plug
The gt 730 seems to be heavily bottlenecked, utilization is around 20% and thats at high resolution and settings? Maybe its better to use the integrated radeon and use the slot for a sound card?
Can you do one on how to make a bootable DOS installer USB thumb drive?
Phil did you have any issues installing Windows XP on this machine? My friend purchased one and im trying to install XP for him im using easy2boot and tried several isos and the machine gets stuck at the screen before the formatting option all I get is a blue screen saying setup is starting windows and nothing happens, ive also tried different hard drives but no joy I expect some option needs disabling in the bios.
XP can be tricky if you don't SATA drivers. Can you install Windows 10?
@@philscomputerlab yes no problem with Windows 10 im using an sata ssd ive even tried a normal sata drive no joy very strange never had this problem on other machines with xp.
Thanks for replying Phil no joy with my original XP cd but managed to get an XP media center iso to work not sure why that should and my original cd wouldnt very weird?!
@@keithbeesting If your original Windows XP CD doesn't include Service Pack 2, I'd recommend installing nLite on your main computer and slipstreaming Service Pack 3 into your original Windows XP CD.
Not bad for this tiny machine. :)