Paper Mario is a difficult thing to talk about
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ย. 2023
- Paper Mario has one of the biggest fanbases out of all Nintendo franchises, but it’s also one of the most opinionated. Why is that? #nintendo #nintendodirect #nintendoswitch #papermariothethousandyeardoor #papermario #papermariotheorigamiking #papermariostickerstar #papermariocolorsplash #superpapermario #mario
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I hope TTYD sells well. Its a game that really fits with the Switch handling of Mario's world.
Video Games are not meant to be taken waaay to seriously.
@@themissinglink2481 Never said they were.
There's a good chance. Super Mario RPG remake sold 3.1million copies!
"Whose idea was it to give Mario a hammer?"
Let's not forget, hammers are Mario's first ever power up. Way back in the arcade Donkey Kong, remember? Before he ever ate any mushrooms or threw any fireballs, he was swinging that hammer.
Sure, Super Mario RPG was the first time he used a hammer in an RPG, but technically he's always had that association.
The Hammer isn't something signature from Paper Mario. Mario has used it since his first appearance in Donkey Kong. Also Super Mario RPG and the Mario & Luigi games all have Mario using the hammer.
Paper Mario came before the M&L RPGs
Square considered giving Mario a sword but Miyamoto opted to go back to the hammer.
@@phictionofgrandeur2387 It doesn't matter. The point of the comment is that the hammer isn't exclusive to Paper Mario.
I would kill for Super Paper Mario to have been the start of a new spin-off subseries, that’s a great idea!
14:44 A little word about name Paper Mario. The Paper Mario 64 in Japan was named "Mario story" meaning that this game where't based on the paper concept as it is now. It was just an artistic choice.
But later they changed it to be "Paper Mario"
@@volvoman5262 what happened was more so that paper Mario 64 was more popular in the west. The title was changed to “paper Mario RPG” in Japan for the sequel because of how successful paper Mario was in the west. The game’s have consistently done better in the west compared to Japan.
Even so i don’t really mind the paper art style in the new games. What I (and i think many people who don’t like the new games) have a problem with is that the new paper Mario games take the whole “it’s made of paper!” Thing and really only focuses on that aspect. The amount of paper themed jokes and puns in modern paper Mario is ridiculous. It’s like Nintendo had a contest in which the staff were tasked with making the most unfunny cringe paper jokes on planet Earth. I like the art style of the modern paper Mario games more than 64 or TTYD, but 64, TTYD and even super, had more engaging and interesting plots and characters than any of the newer games. The fact that we are getting a full remake of TTYD in the style of modern paper Mario is at least in my opinion only a positive thing for the series as a whole.
I started with TTYD, with Super Paper Mario being my second game, and my takeaway there was that Paper Mario was a series defined by its art style and heavy story, with gameplay being different each time. Super Paper Mario became my favorite game of all time for its fantastic story, and then I found out people hated it because its gameplay was different from TTYD and PM64 (which I played later on Wii Virtual Console). But I was a firm SPM defender before Sticker Star was even a thought. When I saw the E3 2010 screenshots of Paper Mario for 3DS I was over the moon excited. It looked like another adventure in the vein of TTYD, and I knew PM games had only gotten crazier with their stories over time so I couldn't wait to play it. The only thing I disliked was the amount of people going "finally, an ACTUAL Paper Mario, not that SPM garbage"
But when Sticker Star came out and I started to realize how little it resembled those early screenshots, and had none of the character and story elements I fell in love with the series for, it became my most hated video game. When Color Splash was announced I participated in the fandom-wide hate circlejerk because I was so devastated Nintendo had chosen to double down instead of listen to the VERY loud and clear feedback that Sticker Star's changes were unacceptable. When Origami King was announced I was cautiously optimistic thanks to it having a new villain, and ended up enjoying the game for what it was, but that wasn't exactly my ideal Paper Mario game, just a neat Mario adventure. The restrictions held it back from being more than that (in my opinion, having restrictions is the antithesis of what Paper Mario should be, so as long as restrictions are there I will be physically incapable of considering a game on par with the first three)
The TTYD remake is exactly what I needed, and I think its visual style is the perfect balance between old and new. Though personally, I think the style of the original TTYD was perfect as is. It and Super easily have my favorite aesthetics in the franchise, as I saw PM64 as kind of an early prototype of that, and I was used to this look long before Sticker Star happened. I feel like as paper got more and more prominent, story and interesting characters waned hard. TTYD's story has nothing to do with paper, so I think the amount the original uses it is more than enough to justify the name. I grew up looking at fan concepts like "Countdown to Chaos" that leaned hard into TTYD's original style, so the crafted style kind of clashes with the aesthetic of the Paper Mario I fell in love with. As for SPM, I firmly consider it the final game in the original trilogy (yes that's what it is to me, a trilogy). Despite its different gameplay, it is the last one to keep 99% of the other elements that defined early PM. I see Sticker Star as a reboot and I continue to wait for Paper Mario 4, dusting off the original continuity at long last. Hopefully the TTYD remake sells like hotcakes and inspires Nintendo to do that.
I started with super and have played all the games but color splash (although I’ve watched a play through). I do prefer the original 3 games by a mile but I will admit the new games had a few decent ideas. The problem is that a lot of things in the newer games are just flat out poorly designed gameplay and story wise, and origami king to me felt like “oh you want partners and badges back? We’ll add them back but make them infinitely worse than they used to be” which just left me angry. In my opinion, CS and OK are good games in a vacuum, but at least for me, because I’ve played the older games, there’s no going back to the modern stuff
If chuggaaconroy can make a 30 minute long video for each chapter of sticker star about why the game is so poorly designed, you know it’s pretty bad
Its curious, because the community were pretty much one sided until TOK came out. You had a couple of persons here and there who admited that enjoyed the games, but not too many.
It was until TOK that "modern Paper Mario" fans really had relevance. So im not sure how the impact of TTYD Remake is gonna be, people said that Old Paper Mario is gonna return, despite that a remake of TTYD was considered years ago. After TTYD, I think that the best move may be to do a survey for fans of what they liked the most about all previous games, and make a combination to create something new, you know?
TTYD remake was the worst idea they could have ever done. They should have just taken TTYD's gameplay style and made a brand new original paper mario game. I'm honestly not getting TTYD-R because of a few reasons.
1) TTYD wasn't my favorite Paper Mario Game, half the chapters and even quite a few bosses I cannot stand.... Even major bosses at that.
2) I already have the game so why bother getting it a second time.
and 3) I would have been more likely to get this next Paper Mario game if they had given us a brand new game that focused on the TTYD gameplay elements.... Just not TTYD.
@@goldenyoshistar1 I don't know man... Those gripes seems to be more personal than anything.
But well, regarding a Remake, you say that a better idea might be a new Paper Mario game?
Well, for the situation we are currently in, a game that doesn't share the SS issues didn't seem posible, so forget they could made a sequel with TTYD.
But a remake to test what fans do want and don't want, seem to be a good way to get money, and can be pretty helpful in a developing standpoint to make a future game better.
Some companies did this, like the RE games case and the new games are very well received.
It surely can be pretty helpful to see what made those entries so good.
So for me was the best option, I prefer It over, Idk, Paper Mario Cardboard Rush with his puzzle combat sistem that very few people Will enjoy?
Considering how long it's been since the last classic paper mario game, a new game in that style may be seen as too "risky," since it may not be clear whether the demographic of people who wouldn't buy a modern paper mario game but would buy a new classic-style paper mario game is large enough for the latter to be profitable.
There's also the fact that TTYD is the least accessible paper mario game, being the only one that never received a digital release, and wasn't playable on any nintendo console released after 2010. Add that to the fact that it's the game most often pointed at as the gold standard for what a paper mario game "should be," and I think an argument can easily be made that a TTYD remake's success (or lack thereof) would be indicitive of the formula's viability as a whole. Simply put, if the TTYD remake isn't a "success" in Nintendo's eyes, then 64 and SPM wouldn't have been either.
I’m guessing that it took time for the folks who grew up with the more modern Paper Mario games to filter into the Internet conversation, which happened around the time of Origami King.
@@pokepress It could be. After all, if someone played SS on release when he was 5 years old, then will have around 16 in this year (time runs, huh), more than enough to talk about it on internet ,even having nostalgia for Sticker Star.
We are often used to protect the games which defined our childhood, good or bad.
You are so underrated. This video is so good, and you just earned a sub. 👏
TTYD's main point is the battle system.
Yea the story was good but SPM is undoubtedly the best one in the end not even featuring a happy ending but a rather sad one.
TTYD's battle system simply works and that is why it's good it entices you to engage with enemies for the most part except for chapter 4 maybe where it might turn into a tiny bit of a buttache but that's just cause the chapter wasn't designed perfectly (It's still my favorite though for the rest I mean story, music, atmosphere, boss and characters)
You have a gain from battles (EXP, money and items/badges) each encounter feels different and depending on your chosen badge layout and partner each battle will play out differently.
You can not pay coins to make the game easier for you. You either get good at the game or find a cheap strategy but never get help from the game. Sticker Star Color splash and Origami king all have battle scenes that look great on the surface but are mostly frustrating and don't feel rewarding at all and on several replays strategies on enemies barely change it gets increasingly more frustrating on bosses
I feel like if they do it, they should do it all seperate like you suggested nintendo once did something like that for zelda and mario they figured what works for one and what works for the other and split the 2 game series in 2 distinguishable projects
I may have started with TTYD and do think it's the best but I enjoyed 64 and SPM regardless of that I even did multiple replays of both. Sticker star lost me halfway in when I realized it wants me to rush through, use the thing sticker on literally every boss and just be done with it... and no that's not an imagination the stupid sticker crown tells you to beat up bosses faster if you dare take your time on them and try to have a fun boss fight. I also hated the world design it was bland as fuck... Grass desert water lava etc just your averade mario bros. levels with bland characters and a million toads...
Also call me out on this one... but the next paper mario title should somehow make mario the final boss I know it sounds weird but let me explain.
1. Pm64 featured bowser as the final boss which is expected from a 1st entry in a mario series they all go down that hole.
2. since the remake is on the horizon I won't say too much but the final boss certainly wasn't completely new to the series.
3. in super paper mario count bleck was backstabbed by dimentio who used the evil chaos heart to fuse luigi to himself and make luigi the final boss of the game.
4. Now should have been mario's turn but in sticker star they just went with bowser again... like they did in colorsplash... and in Origami king we got King olli but Mario is still not been turned into the bad guy except in sunshine (ironically TTYD did something in line with this...)
In other words... you want Nintendo to make Mario face _another_ faker as the final boss.
@@BlueDragonCody basically,yes. it would have been in line with the first 3 paper marios.
While ttyd is my favorite paper mario, paper mario 64 was the first one i played thanks to chuggaaconroy's lets play of it. I also heavily loved super paper mario and didnt have a problem at all with the lack of turn based combat. After that i got sticker star, and at first i loved it, but when i got to chapter 3 it put me off so much that i just dropped the game right there, chapter 3 was just so un-enjoyable. I never had a wii u so never played color splash. And for oragami king while i wasn't big on the ring mechanic i still loved the game it was so fun through and through.
He got a hammer because he’s a plumber
I’ve only played super paper Mario. The next three being about paper was uninteresting to me, but thousand year door? Man I’m excited for that!
Origami King's main theme has this weird ability to sound nostalgic, even when it first came out.
The Wii can play GameCube games too. But I guess a lot of people didn't know that.
My first paper mario game was sticker star and I loved it, but then I played 64 and TTYD and now TTYD is my favourite, followed closely by SPP and 64
I highly appreciate this good-faith analysis of why you believe people like what they like about the titles in this series. Putting yourself in the shoes of someone else to better understand their views is advice that is practiced so much less often than you'd think considering how often we all hear it.
As to my own credentials with this franchise, well, here's a dump if you're bored.
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I was *vaguely acquainted* with the first two entries when they came out. I played little snippets of each on rare occasions when I came across them. Visiting a distant relative's house. Paying for an hour of play time at a Holiday Inn using those old controllers built into the TV sets (remember those, anyone?). I even found a demo of TTYD at Best Buy and played a small segment of Hooktail's Castle. But I never actually owned a game to play by myself until I had a Wii. I bought Super Paper Mario as soon as I found out it was a thing, expecting to get an experience like those mystery games I only had fleeting moments with... and I got something different. Extremely different. I was kind of crushed at first. But as I played the game, I came to like it a lot as its own thing.
I later got my fill of the other two games not through playing them, but by watching Chugaaconroy play them in his original Let's Play series of each.
When Sticker Star came out, and I was old enough to buy games for myself and I saw from the trailers that it had a turn-based RPG battle system, I was stoked. Finally! a TTYD-like I could finally play! I bought it, and, well... no. It still was not the TTYD-like I dreamed of. 0/2 at this point. But, somehow, I found value in this game too. I did notice a lot of the fundamental game design flaws that people today lambast it for. In particular, the Thing sticker mechanic and the way each world boss is specifically weak to one of them, and how this is not intuitively telegraphed in any way was AGONIZING. I had to consult the Internet several times to just to progress. In retrospect, this is horseshit game design. But for some reason, I didn't complain. The rest of the game was so full of life. I loooooved the papercraft aesthetic, and still do. I genuinely don't understand why some people hate it. The BGM for Decalburg alone kicks the pants off of all three prior games' OSTs combined. And while the regression to stock Mario world characters was an objective negative, I still thought the characters we did get were written well.
By the time Color Splash was out, I had found emulated copies of the first two games and played them, finally scratching that itch I always had. And I had exposed myself to the total vitriol towards Sticker Star, and found myself admitting agreement with many of the criticisms. I still do think that, despite the praises I can give it, Sticker Star is an objectively bad game at its core. And when I saw the announcement of Color Splash, I could just tell that it was doubling down on Sticker Star. Double the positives (the graphics look gorgeous, the music sounds great, the character writing looked top notch) but double the flaws (the battle system looked like the worst one yet). I owned a Wii U, but never bothered to pick it up. Still haven't, actually. Haven't even seen a Let's Play. So I don't really know much about it. All I know is that, from reviews I've seen after the fact, I judged the game exactly correctly. I would still give it a fair shake, as I think the positives are worth experiencing, but the game is somehow still worth full price?!? Even today?? I remember walking into a brick and mortar store after the release of Origami King and Color Splash was literally the only Wii U game still on the shelf in the store, priced $10 more. For a controversial game that apparently no one wanted on a console no one bought, it's always been shockingly priced!
Origami King was a revelation when it dropped. The stealth drop in that Direct with the promise that it was only a month away was legendary. The game looked stunning. And while I could tell it was still clearly of the Sticker Star DNA lineage, it looked like it ironed out a lot of the problems and became what Sticker Star always wished it could be. I was hyped. And when I bought the game, I was not disappointed at all. The game is breathtaking and so richly crafted. The papercraft aesthetic was absolutely mastered. The soundtrack is my favorite soundtrack of any game I've ever played to date. And the entire game is positively brimming with joy, soul, and creativity. My experience playing it over the course of a week was pure bliss, in the sort of way that only a small handful of games have ever made me feel. It made me feel like a kid again. Which is incredible, because this game makes me feel nostalgic for absolutely nothing. It's just *good*! It's not TTYD and I don't even care, it's at minimum on TTYD's level being its own thing.
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So, I was never really much part of the Paper Mario old guard, per se. But I was, like, around. I was raised at that time and knew about it incidentally, and loved what I saw. And it was always a fabled missing piece of my childhood that I doted on from afar, until finally only being able to experience it for myself as an adult. So I feel like I have some ground to stand on when I say, I know where people are coming from when they defend these games as the franchise's pinnacle, and I understand why they are so disappointed at the state of where it has gone. But there are some gripes I hear from them that I just... cannot fathom how they completely ruin the experience, to the point where there is no positive for them in the modern material.
> "I hate the paper focus!! The first game was originally called 'Mario Story' in Japanese, and the paper look was just an aesthetic! This focus on paper is a tiresome gimmick that was never supposed to be!!"
Why does this matter? People like Arlo have tried to articulate this to me and I just don't get it. How does the world explicitly being paper suddenly take you out of it? Personally, it gets me even more invested. The world being explicitly craft material and the entire world knowing about it generates interesting dynamics in how characters interact with the world and each other. If Paper Mario always was supposed to be a pop-up story book, how is it not the most charming thing ever that characters in that pop-up story book actually have to worry about getting creased, or stuck to tape, or cut by scissors? Frankly the existence of the new games make the old games retroactively feel like underdeveloped potential in a lot of ways.
> "Where are the other races? I'm tired of seeing the same Mario enemies again and again!"
More creativity in character design is only a good thing, I agree. And the supposed limitation imposed by corporate Nintendo of what they were allowed to do with this franchise was bullshit, I agree there as well. I will never argue that these limitations strengthen these games in any way. But I'm also not convinced that the games we got were bad for them either. I really hate this reductive, "we were robbed" opportunity-cost way of judging things. I'm more interested in fairly judging the game I actually have, rather that one that could have hypothetically existed. And I want to know whether the game I'm playing is good on its own merits. Within the limitation that were, I think the characters we did get were excellent, and that's enough for me.
And then there's the whole, "It's not an RPG anymore" thing. And like, I get that. It sucks to have liked a series for doing something super well, and then they stopped doing that thing in favor of doing another thing you don't care for. And you can't even vote with your wallet to tell them you don't like it, because the new direction has courted a new gaggle of fans, so you just have to seethe at seeing the corpse of the thing you love be paraded around as a shadow of its former self, forever preventing it from returning to the thing you love. That stings. And since I'm a fan of both the old and the new, it would be biased of me to say that "it's fine because at least we got a good replacement". So I won't.
What I will say is that every single installment of this series gives off a strong aura of being a labor of love. Paper Mario games, even the ones that feel terrible to play, never feel "phoned in". They never felt pandering, or trend-chasing, or like they were soullessly retreading old ground to get sequels out in strategic windows. Whoever made these was definitely making exactly what they wanted to make. And I think there's a lot of value in that, even if the games aren't ones I want to play. This industry has too many depressing examples of the opposite for me to feel any other way about it.
Also, there's something I've noticed about Paper Mario series that I've never heard anyone mention before. Yes, the first two games were RPGs at their core, and they dropped that part since then. But I'd argue the RPG trait was secondary. The real thing that Paper Mario was, and always has been even to today, is a gag variety show. Every chapter and/or level of every game is a nearly self-contained bubble of some absurd premise that you can just tell the devs were having a ball toying with. That's what the devs are truly in the business of with making Paper Mario. Gameplay of these titles is never static, it's always bouncing around to the next zany thing. That's the core of what Mario as a whole franchise has always been about. Not only would I argue that this has not gone away in recent titles, I'd argue that recent titles are just a more pure form of this. The RPG was just the excuse to deliver it in the past, now it's so highly developed that it can stand by itself. Food for thought, I guess.
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Thank you for coming to my TedX talk.
i think it's highly ironic that, Yes i do remember those hotel rooms where you could go to the front desk and pay to play the games they had in the rooms it's how i first played paper Mario with the 64 game i honestly remembered bits and pieces of it. That is until i watched a lets play of 64 later in life and suddenly remembered that game i played in the hotel when i was a kid and have been a fan ever since and eventually played sticker star, and like most people i was excited to play it from the 2010 screenshots that made it look like it was the old paper mario that i knew and loved i forced myself to beat it, i boycotted color splash for paper jam because at least it still felt like paper mario and boycotted origomi king for bug fables for the same reasons. The series was Dead to me until paper jam, bug fables and now the ttyd remake were released as they still have everything that made me fall in love with paper mario even if paper jams a mario and luigi game im happy to say i think of it as a mario and luigi game And a paper mario game
Being a fan of every paper mario game, I do enjoy the standard battle system from 1 and ttyd the most-
I also enjoed SPM a LOT.
Sticker star was fine, and the complaints personally feel unfounded, while it's my least favorite paper mario I'd still reccommend it as a game, maybe not an RPG fans choice game but hey. 🤷♀️
Now Color Splash and Origami King are SPECTACULAR Paper Mario games for me; i just wish they had the original battle mechanics. 😂
Although I really liked everything they did with their unique battle mechanics!
The only change I have ever accepted naturally as another home run mechanic was Super Paper Marios platforming battles, that fit with that world and felt good.
My only negative take on newer paper mario is it seems they can't nail anoter addictive turn based combat style.
I hope they discover gold with these experiments in the rpg genre.
I applaud them for not just giving us the standard even though it's becoming a detriment to the series perception, and when it finally pays off Paper mario may find it's own uniquely perfect battle system, and ppssibly a newer and better battle system for other rpgs to tackle if it's good enough. 🎉
I'm one of the TTYD fans who never bought Origami King. The only way I would play the Origami King is if I was given it as a gift. I refuse to buy it. Origami King might be better than Sticker Star and Color Splash, but it's part of the problem to me. I will never be able to bring myself to support that. But the TTYD remake, that's something I will definitely buy to both play and to show my support for that style of Paper Mario. I truly miss it.
Bruh just buy it second hand if you feel that strongly about it.
@@pointillism252 Hmm... no. My comment was meant to share my thoughts on the matter, if you can't respect it, then please, don't say anything.
@@DarkFoxKit I respect that you don't want to support what you may deem a product of subpar quality. I'm just pointing out if you did want to experience it without supporting it, shopping second hand is a valid option.
@@pointillism252 Fair enough. I apologize if I seemed harsh, I just had to deal with a lot of troll-like comments before that really went out of their way to make me feel like crap just for sharing my thoughts about something.
@@DarkFoxKit Ain't that a paper Mario community staple.
ok so I've always had a unique history with paper mario, the first game i played was super paper mario and with that i thought it was fine but i didn't really understand what was going on during it, on that same wii i also had the original paper mario on virtual console but i wasn't able to play it until my dad ended up pulling out a box from the attic that randomly had a gamecube controller and with that i finally got to play it and genuinely fell in love with the game. when sticker star came out i was intrigued but when i finally got my hands on it the experience was nowhere near as fun as what i had on the wii and that was when i found out about all the praises of the thousand year door, admittedly i thought it was overhyped because it just looked like more of the same but when i finally figured out how to emulate gamecube games i tried it out and i can genuinely say i would much rather they stuck with the original gameplay for the first 2 games than go for the counterintuitive gameplay of the modern games, also with the origami king i think arlo summed it up pretty well, the story and characters are great and the paper machos are fun but the battle system is god awful and just feels like it was there for the sake of having a gimmick
Great video! Definitely the most nuanced video I've seen on the subject.
As someone who knows a lot about most of the series (except for quite a bit of Sticker Star and all of Color Splash, the latter of which I kinda want to give a shot) but who's only ever played Origami King, the TTYD remake announcement filled me with mixed feelings to a degree I have seldom felt. On one hand, I've always thought TTYD was super charming and I really wanted to give it a shot myself, even though I know RPG battle systems aren't something I like and as such I will struggle with getting through that aspect of the game. On the other hand, with Origami King being my favorite game in the series story-wise and meaning so much to me, I had a feeling that the online reactions were going to be pretty bad, but they turned out to be even worse than I had anticipated.
I've always felt the subject was unnecessarily heated and it's the series where I've seen the most genuine disrespect thrown at each other, with even people who are usually very neutral on things coming out to insult the fans of the newer games and trying to find ways to "prove them wrong", which are all obviously opinions but worded like they're facts. One interaction I remember vividly is someone insulting my intelligence before blocking me simply because I said Origami King was my favorite. I'm really glad to see someone take a look at the bigger picture, and I actually agree with almost all of what you said; I think every game at least has very interesting concepts that all work well, and comparing them is pointless because a lot of them simply are trying different things. Very well made.
Thank you very much.
You have poked a Jabbi’s nest, but I am glad you are at least laying the opinions bare.
Mario had hammers in SMRPG
Just to add on as a note since you said you never played Sticker Star: I just wanted to highlight that the gameplay between Sticker Star and Color Splash (which I assume you have played) is veeeeery similar, especially when it came to battles. Minus anything to do with paint-filling and paint-collecting, the two play very similarly, all the way up to using Thing Stickers / Thing Cards to solve puzzles and perform powerful attacks in battle (especially since certain bosses are weak to certain Things). Just wanted to add that point because if you really looked at just the battle gameplay alone, you can see why people call it a "Sticker Star 2", even though there's a number of things in Color Splash - even just the characters alone - that do really separate it from Sticker Star.
Anyway, for me personally, I started off with TTYD on the GameCube, and so I was of course extremely excited by the announcement of the TTYD remake. However, I gave every Paper Mario game a fair shake, and I feel there's things to genuinely enjoy about each one. I felt like TTYD, Super Paper Mario, and Color Splash did just about as much as they could with the set of mechanics they had, and I think if there was ever an Origami King 2 that iterated upon the ideas of Origami King (just like TTYD iterated upon PM64, and Color Splash iterated on Sticker Star), we could have something truly great there too. There really hasn't been a bad Paper Mario game - just games that go in different directions mechanically.
But you forgot about the ones who started diving into the series with the origami king
The hammer came from Miyamoto. In the original SMRPG Square we’re going to give Mario a sword and he gave the suggestion for them to give him a hammer instead and said that would suit him much more.
I think this series will never ever stop being great to me. The first game I played was Super Paper Mario, and I think while it could be better in terms of the gameplay (The game was generally too easy, the pit of 100 trials stuff was annoying padding), it's still one of my favorite games to ever be released.
Paper Mario is a series that started off as an RPG, became a platformer with SPM, and became a kind of RPG that feels like it's lacking a lot. But the games have one thing in common: They're all about stories. PM64 was a simple story about how Mario saves the princess again from Bowser. TTYD was about stopping the great evil the X-Nauts were trying to bring into the world (while also saving Peach), Sticker Star fell flat with its story, being just that of PM64 but the blandest of them all. Color Splash was, again, about saving the princess, but you have distinct worlds now. Origami King was about the tale of an origami creation which sought to destroy all the Toads in the world while Mario tries to stop him, being helped by another origami creation.
But above all, Super's story is about love. And how it can triumph no matter what. These games are about trying to tell a story, and that's why I think SPM is the best of them all. Even though Mario in this game kind of takes a back seat to the true protagonist (which is basically Tippi), it's one of the best stories Nintendo's ever told. Which is why I think the discourse about this series is why it's so sad to me. Why does it matter which trilogy of games you enjoy more? I've played all of these barring Color Splash, and I think each has their merit (I don't really like Sticker Star though, it's story and gameplay are lukewarm at best.) So many people put TTYD on a pedestal, and while I think that game has the best in the gameplay department, it still has its own flaws which most TTYD purists tend to ignore just to insult fans of the newer games about why they are stupid for not liking TTYD or liking a different game. The community is always in a never ending civil war between fans of the old trilogy and fans of the new and its gone too far in my eyes.
I just hope the new TTYD remake is good, so Nintendo would have a reason to remake Super Paper Mario and fix its flaws.
Super Paper Mario did NOT take the character designs too far. Although the graphical style is strange, I’d argue that any one of those characters in a world with the TTYD style would be such a cool and interesting contrast.
I actually think that a story about paper is very very compelling
I played Super Paper Mario first, but never finished it. I then played Color Splash, then went back and played Paper Mario 64. Afterwards, I finished Super Paper Mario, and went to TTYD, then I played Origami King. I’ve never played Sticker Star, but I’m trying to get a hold of it. I never actually finished TTYD because I actually got bored of it, even though Paper Mario 64 was my favorite. The backtracking was just too much for me.
Two questions:
Why do you think fans are so divided?
Do you enjoy this longer format? Or do you prefer my shorter videos?
I think it just comes down to mainly recency bias. Most of the people who played TOK probably never played a Paper Mario game before, much like how many people probably never played Luigi's mansion 1 or 2 before 3. When we're a fan of a series or franchise, we want certain elements to stay the same but also be expanded. When they change a lot(for better or worse) it makes it feel like we're being left behind as they try to appeal to newer fans or a broader audience.
I think fans are divided because unlike most games which have the same general gameplay, but slowly add,remove, and improve features over time, paper Mario nearly changed entirely. Super paper Mario is like a spin off of the originals. The game is entirely different (in terms of gameplay) same with sticker star. And origami king. The only two which feel like sequels at all is thousand year door to 64 and color splash to sticker star. All others are games that nearly have nothing to do with each other.
Zelda Tears of the kingdom and breath of the wild are completely different then a regular zelda game (well aside from how link plays for combat and movement and stuff…. Ok well maybe it is more similar than I think just open world.. hmm… but climbing is new.) but anyway zelda changed drastically but zelda fans never felt abandoned because it took so long for them to do something so different. If your a zelda fan and don’t like breath of the wild you have Plenty games to look through. The most any paper Mario fan can have if they specifically like the gameplay of one type of paper Mario is 2.
I feel like the old and new fans are arguing about different things. Old fans are complaining because the new games are so radically different from the old ones that they feel like a different series, but are also, simply by existing, ensuring that there won't be a return to form of the series. New players complain about the fact that the old fans are complaining for pretty much any reason instead of shutting up, pretending that these new games are equivalent to the old ones, and just accepting the general trend towards homogenization of the 2010's.
@@emmetstanevich2121 in hindsight while I think what I said is true, the truth is there is no one reason. Fans are divided because what we want is different, and getting more specific may break down with a significant number of the fans.
Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Mario use a hammer in the original Mario RPG?
Plus! the character that would eventually become Mario used a hammer in the original Donkey Kong arcade game.
And there is also the hammer bro suit from Mario brothers 3!
It is interesting though that the hammer became a sort of signature ability in both paper Mario and Mario and Luigi games. It makes sense both for a narrative and a gameplay perspective though so I won’t complain about it.
No. They definitely did not have the intention of making the world look crafted in the old games. Otherwise they would have done it. N64 games and especially GameCube games had the ability to make things look like cardboard.
Aside from remake ttyd, the paper mario series is almost deaf as the banjo kazooie serriies
Can I just enjoy the modern games without getting shittalked please?
I first played paper mario 64, and I love that game, it's probably my favorite in the entire series. That doesn't mean that I don't like ttyd, in fact I feel like ttyd is the best game in the series, it's just not my favorite. I honestly like the simple paper style in paper mario 64, it's not too much, it's not too little, it's just right. I think the reason I like it more than ttyd is because it doesn't have as much backtracking, and it has some of my favorite music. I feel like ttyd has the best combat, and story, it just has terrible backtracking (I literally used emulator speedup during some major backtracking sections, specifically the pig chapter). Yeah, I haven't beat ttyd yet, but I still think it's the best game in the series.
For a long time, I thought super paper mario was the worst game ever, all because it wasn't like paper mario 64 (this was before I played ttyd). As I've grown older, I think that super paper mario is a really great game, the story is amazing, the gameplay was experimental, but no turn based combat. The thing I don't like about it is that it doesn't really feel like paper mario, but it's still a really good game.
Sticker star is the worst game in the series, all because the combat is much easier. Making beating all the enemies in 1 turn is honestly really stupid, and makes the game too easy. I need some challenge, or at least a difficulty selector.
Color splash is better sticker star, but still not very good. Also, the white outline looks so bad, it just makes the characters feel like they were just stamped onto the world, not like they live in it.
Origami king is the best of the modern games, and as much as I've played, it's fun. The combat is so confusing, but that may be because I haven't gotten past the first world (I only played it once on christmas when I got it).
The ttyd remake is the best of both worlds, they got rid of the white outline, but made the characters popout cardboard with multiple layers, which looks pretty good. I have a feeling the graphics are going to be not as much paper aesthetic, but enough that it still looks like paper.
Oh, and the only games I've played are paper mario 64, ttyd, a little bit of super (although I watched my brother play it), and a tiny bit of origami king.
Ok, you NEED to finish Super. The last few chapters are insane
Great video, it’s interesting hearing the perspective of a new fan to the series and how they see things compared to my own experience. I played TTDY as a kid when it released and went back to Paper Mario 64. I greatly enjoyed both games, and thought that Super Paper Mario was a lot of fun too. For a couple of years I would replay all of them and enjoy the stories of each, but realize that Super Paper Mario had some fatiguing elements that the first two games didn’t have. The 2D levels were fun when I was younger and hated turn based battles, but now they’re kinda a slog to get through. I’m actually replaying the game right now, and there’s a 1 to 1 good to bad level ratio in each world except for World 2. Especially in world 4 and world 7 where you have to go through a lot of maze-like areas while backtracking. It’s not hard, just really annoying. The game still has the polish of the previous entries though, and the story is pretty compelling all things considered.
When Sticker Star got announced, I was really happy to see Paper Mario go back to form but it did not make me happy when I finally played it. It would be one thing if the game still held the quality of the previous games but tried something different like Super. However, it really just doesn’t hold up to the quality I’d expect of the previous games. Tons of cheap instant kill moments, a half baked battle system that doesn’t even let you block in battle, no experience points to motivate the player, either boring or insanely obscure puzzles, and the most boring characters and story out of any of the rpgs. It honestly felt like a completely different development team made the game, and it turns out that was true. The original team got gutted for different projects and they handed off the “Mario Story” franchise as it was called in Japanese to a brand new team of rookie developers and officially renamed the franchise to Paper Mario. (It was never called Paper Mario in Japanese until the hand-off of the series, which a lot of people like to point to the moment expectations of what the series was changed internally.) I could tolerate a lot, but that was not the way to handle a beloved series at the time and hopefully shows why so many fans feel burned about the state of the franchise now. After playing a decent bit of the game, I went back to GameStop and traded it in for another game.
As for Color Splash, I was dead set against buying it but my dad went and picked up a copy for me to play. Since I already had it, I tried it out and was pleasantly surprised that it had improved enough to be playable. A lot of the problems that Sticker Star suffered from are still there, but at least the world was more interesting to explore and the story was entertaining even if it didn’t have the same stakes as the old stuff. There’s still a lot of bad game design there though, like thing cards being the only way to kill bosses, not using things in the right order and having to reload because it completely wastes the card, more cheap instant deaths, sniff it or whiff it requiring a specific deck of cards to complete that are only purchasable after you die, not being able to block or pick how many cards you want to use per turn, some obscure solutions to puzzles, and backtracking through certain levels to get multiple level exits. It’s not enough to keep me from replaying the game, unlike sticker star, but it does make me mad when I have to go through it again. I feel like Origami King is where the new team has finally hit their stride and have put forward a product that can stand head and shoulders with some of the other RPGs. The combat isn’t amazing but it also isn’t an utter chore and the boss fights are actually fun, no doubt in my mind. The story is also a lot of fun even if the ending reveal of Olly’s motivations is a really stupid compared to Bowser, Grodious, or especially Count Bleck. (I get it’s supposed to be light hearted and fun but that kinda undercuts the rest of the game, and the sacrifices some of the characters had to make during g the journey.) I’d have to replay the game again, but I think I’d put Origami King above Super Paper Mario even though the story might be better in Super.
All that to say, it’s been a long journey to accept what Paper Mario is nowadays but not all of us think the games are all bad aside from the only good two. However, it’s not all clear cut “we only like the old stuff and the new stuff sucks!” because honestly the new games have some flaws that are really hard to ignore. Even if Sticker Star and Color Splash weren’t Paper Mario, I believe they would still come under criticism because they just have some flat out bad design choices in them on top of boring story and character designs. (Sticker Star more than Color Splash.) Even Super and Origami King have a lot of weird and annoying design choices that can put off a casual fan who don’t have the motivation to stick through the slow parts. However, as long as the next Paper Mario has the quality that was put into Origami King, I’ll be more than willing to give it a chance.
The first game i ever played was sticker star and then color splash afterwards. Then i played thousand year door and i could proudly say it is the best one out of the franchise
I have to say I disagree with the commenter who said “How long would it take for the games to go stale if they were just like Ttyd Year after year.” I can honestly say I don’t think they would have been stale at all. For the sole reason, and I can vouch for all OG Paper Mario fans, that we all continuously replay 64 and TTYD all the time, and they still aren’t stale
i agree with you i still play the 64 game to this day and when bug fables came out people were extatic, it wasn't stale then and it isn't now those games are still beloved by fans like myself and many others who still play the games in the series to this day, same with other series such as kirby and mario and luigi they weren't stale then and they're not stale now ( besides pokemon obviously as they don't even expand upon the formula like bug fables, kirby and mario and luigi do)
This is the best nuanced talk abput it I've heard. I've enjoyed each game I've played, just bevause I don't take their differences too seriously. I think each of them has strengths for different reasons.
Wait... "...and some parts of Super Paper Mario are impossible without a guide."
What parts are you referring to?
I played it as a kid and never got stuck.
Besides, there's a built-in hint system in the game if you do manage to get stuck.
I’m referring to a part in chapter five where you have to hit three blocks in a certain order. They are on the complete opposite side of the map from the NPC that tells you in what order to hit them. You must hit them twice.
The first time isn’t so bad it’s “Left, Right, Middle.” But the second time was “Middle, Right, Left, Left, Right, Middle, Right, left, Right, Right, Middle, Right, Right, Left, Middle, Middle, Left, Left, Left, Right, left, Left, left, Middle, Middle. I couldn’t remember that without writing it down or a guide.
I would be curious to know how you were supposed to solve this puzzle and how you did it as a kid? Thank you.
@@The_Renaissance. The first set of combination blocks is very close to the town, so when you get stuck, of course you'd try to look for a way elsewhere.
Then when you go through the door again, you see that a bunch of NPCs have come out of their houses. Before that they were hiding from the floro sapiens. So of course you'd try to talk to them. And then one of them gives you the combination.
And then when you get to the second set of blocks, you think "If he helped me the first time, maybe he'll help me a second time.", so you go back and get the combination.
Yeah, it's a little tedious to write it down, but it's not like it's hard to do.
Back then, game manuals even had note sections where you could write that sort of thing down, so you'd still know it on a repeat playthrough.
@@The_Renaissance.
Guy who tells you the code more or less says to write it down. It's stupid, but it doesn't require a guide. It just does if you don't want to do the stupid backtracking that only exists to pad out an otherwise short level.
@@ShyGuyXXLYea it's like what i did for the combination for the shroobs boss fight in the bowsers inside story remake. Basically i just looked up what the combination was instead of looking for the notes, it saved me a bunch of time too So Worth It.
Thousand Year Door was my first paper mario. So when I first played Pm64, I'm just going to be honest.. It felt weaker.. Like the partners weren't as interesting.. I feel like most of the setup ttyd did better. Like I enjoy the "Spooky ghost" voice in ttyd more than the first game, goombella more than goombario, koops more than kooper, peach interludes in ttyd more than pm64, etc.
However, maybe this is just because I played Thousand Year Door first, so when I went back to play the og, it felt weaker to me. Just like how I could see people who played pm64 first feel differently. Maybe they think ttyd is more of a rehash of pm64, just with better graphics? And I could see that.
This was only when I first played it. Now I could appreciate what pm64 did to the series because it set the foundation for it. So I enjoyed it more now. Especially the content that's unique to it.
I do think your favorite is mostly based on what you play first. Since I played TTYD first, I expect the series to keep that same writing and style. So when I played Super Paper Mario and Sticker Star, it felt weird seeing the differences in those games.
Super kept a lot of what I like about Thousand Year Door, but did make some changes that I thought were sluggish. Sticker Star I remember buying blindly and was surprised by how new super mario bros-fied it was. It felt like I was playing a nsmb game, but every time I run into an enemy, I had to do a battle in between. I wasn't having fun. Because of my feelings towards sticker star, it made me more skeptical of the newer games that came after.
I wonder how different my views would change if TTYD wasn't my first paper mario?
I played the original first and it's still my favorite. I think TTYD is incredible as well, so it's not that it felt "weaker" or anything. The story is definitely better, but some of the battle quirks and gimmicks are a bit unnecessary. The crowd is a cool concept, but a lot of the time it's just a pointless addition to the fighting process. When the crowd throws you a major item or you get a good and timely bingo, it can swing the fight massively. The stage background falling down and damaging everything is pointless, the mist is a terrible mechanic, and using crystal star abilities just has a lot more added tedium than the star spirits. Since your partners have their own hp in TTYD, you can just let them soak damage for Mario. I prefer the less forgiving style of the original where only Mario has hp. In addition, BP is so unquestionably the best level up choice in TTYD because you get good badges so often that it kind of invalidates the other two a bit. While BP is probably still the best in the original, the three are a bit more balanced. I also prefer the music in the original, and I think on the whole a little bit of the charm was lost in TTYD, albeit not a lot. Overall, TTYD is just a bit less balanced, and both the battle flow and chapter flow isn't quite as good by comparison. But it's still a fantastic game and one of my favorite games of all time, even though I prefer the original.
0:57 imo we don't _need_ Paper Mario to be exclusively gameplay focused, because that's already what the main Mario games are for! Story and RPG elements is the heart of the Paper Mario series and the entire purpose of its origins.
And my first Paper Mario game was Super Paper Mario, just to clarify.
As someone who has only played super paper, and TOK I’m excited for TTYD
I played sticker star, well not to the end but thats also most sticker star fans i feel. Some of the chapters hve such bs to even complete them that its really the example of bad game design. Chuggaconroy stated it already but you can go the entire game and beat any enemy by just running. Oh and if you thought backtracking in ttyd is bad, sticker star is like chapter 4 and general white but for half the levels
PEOPLE THINK STICKER STAR IS THE BEST PAPER MARIO GAME?!
I can see why that could be such. Sticker Star is so annoyingly nothing that it can said to be unique and non redundant. It lacks backtracking if you collect everything not necessarily locked behind a door and World 3-6’s secret Thing, which is a complaint about TTYD. It does not force you to use a specific Thing, unlike Color Splash; Sticker Star is also not annoyingly meta. Sticker Star’s gameplay is not as weird as The Origami King’s where the battles are only good if you are fighting bosses and even that’s statement is questionable. It is even simpler a story than PM64 if that is your speed. And if nothing else, it is uniquely like a diorama, and uniquely jazzy. When people say they like Sticker Star over literally any other thing, they like it because it is uniquely simple and nothing.
@@iantaakalla8180 Sticker Star literally has twice as much backtracking as TTYD though.
Where is that Mexican shy guy character from? I once had an idea for a poncho-wearing shy guy named Jorge, because Jorge sounds like the reverse version of the Japanese name for shy guy, Heiho
It’s from The Origami King. He’s part of the canned food party quest.
And SPM did NOT have badges. It had cards.
i think that was paper jam lol
@@Kurumithespiritnightmare both.
@@phictionofgrandeur2387 super had cards?? i don't remember those at all and i played most of the game
@@Kurumithespiritnightmare you pick them up and they double your attack against certain enemies.
@@phictionofgrandeur2387 isn't that just the level up system, or like one of the items that you use im literally drawing a blank on the whole card thing 😅
The thing is the first two things have both a good story and gameplay. The three most recent Paper Mario games make battles (the most important part for an RPG) tedious and unrewarding. The likes of Sticker Star and Color Splash also lack story, so they fail on both the gameplay and story departments.
I started from 64, and my favorite is ttyd. Super was a nice experience, however for me is the best story.
My real problem with sticker star and on, is that, as you said, you skipped most of the battles, because they're pretty pointless, you get no XP, only coins...
Also I still think Nintendo is getting lazy with that Toad part as before they all had different names, appearances, behaviors and even backstory sometimes, and party members, they all were unique and had also grown somehow... But from super on, they got kinda..... I don't know, they're "only there"....
Hey, I'll do you one better, I can tell you what it was like to play paper Mario 64 as an infant. At that age I struggled to understand the difference between things in books and things on a tv so when I saw paper mario I thought it was pure magic. The second I could control my hands I wanted to play. 64 in particular has a lot of elements that appealed to me too, shy guys toy box, flower fields, star haven, but the game was a magical world I couldn't get enough of. The sounds, the colors, the locations. The younger you are, the more elastic your brain is and the more potential you have to getting permanently attached to things like this. Despite all of that, and despite Paper Mario 64 still being my favorite, I recognize ttyd as the more enriching experience. I just don't have the personal / nostalgic love for it like I do for 64 so it's just another fantastic Nintendo game vs the very first thing I ever remember wanting.
If you want a ''Action Adventure'' why not play Odyssey, Galaxy or the 3D games. But the core essence of Paper Mario IS it's story, FUN battle mechanics, partners, characters and overall the charm. Why not have two different yet good game types, but make one more and more into the other. Well I guess that's just my opinion.
Started with TTYD and loved it, played all the games but 64
Imo, Sticker Star is the worst one and the only one i did need a guide to continue playing
Color Splash was so much fun tho, i really had a blast playing it
Origami king was, for me, alright, but i by the end i was annoyed of it's combat system
Super is just Super and a fun game thats so different and yet so enjoyable
if i had to do a tierlist, without coungting 64, i would say TTYD > Super = Color Splash > Origami King > Sticker Star
The reason that most people like the game they played first most is pretty simple, if you play a game and don't like it, you're not likely to try any other games in the series, but if you do like it then you're a lot more likely to dislike other games in the series due to how different they all are, personally TTYD being haled as the holy grail of Paper Mario bugs me just a little bit more each year, I like the game a lot certainly, but as someone who prefer Paper Mario 64 over TTYD I do find it a bit irksome when 64 is lumped in with TTYD as if it were just a strictly worse version of TTYD with no merits of its own over TTYD, and I get why this happens so much, 64 and TTYD are the 2 most similar games in the series so when talking in broad strokes it's easy to generalize by talking about TTYD as if it's the gold standard that all the older fans want to see a return to, but this inevitably pushes 64 more and more into irrelevancy in terms of general Paper Mario discourse, maybe if TTYD remaster/remake does mark a true return to form to the series and isn't just a 1off then there could be more breathing room for comparisons to be made within that style of Paper Mario, hopefully anyway.
I Agree with you, when people play the first game in the series and they realize the other games are majorly different than the ones they fell in love with it's tough for them to become interested in the other games. As a Huge newer atelier fan who's first game in the series was atelier ryza 2 i was Livid when they announced a return to form for the older rpg fans, as ryza 2 introduced Millions of new fans into the series including myself who fell in love with the atelier series because of the new jrpg mechanics from the ryza installments and as great as the return to forms story and characters looked i just Couldn't Bring Myself To Like It. At this point it doesn't matter how good the story or characters in sophe 2 were compared to ryza 2 it was a completely different genre and type of game entirely, eventually i just returned the game to game stop and bought ryza 3 instead about a year later as at least it still felt like atelier to me. So yeah i do agree with your argument on that my friend.
Fr, I feel like not enough people draw enough attention to how different the first 2 games really are. They follow the exact same formula but they're tonally and visually like night and day
It’s not hard to talk about. Bring back normal turn based battle system, party members, and u I que storylines and we’ll be happy.
12:30 If you owned a gamecube compatible Wii you could have played it !
Yes I own a GameCube compatible Wii, but getting ahold on the game was the hard part.
@@The_Renaissance. yep thats valid, hard as hell to get a hold of
I think this analysis is incomplete because it fails to mention how Paper Mario was conceived and what it tried to do in the jRPG genre. Paper Mario, or Mario Story was conceived to be the spiritual successor to Super Mario RPG on the SNES, and PM64 and TTYD follow a design philosophy inspired by Square's classic jRPGs, making it more dynamic compared to normal jRPGs of the time with the action/timed commands and a more whimsical atmosphere product of the Mario series.
You gotta understand that SMRPG and PM64 and TTYD stand on the much more casual and friendly end of jRPGs, and that's thanks to Nintendo applying the magic they know best. JRPGs by nature are a very niche genre that doesn't sell particularly well (and still doesn't...), and at the time were better known to be only for a specific and mostly hardcore audience (and still are in all honesty...), but Nintendo (and Square with SMRPG) made games that were very fun and accessible. Heck, modern Final Fantasy completely abandoned its roots, and that's another topic in and on itself, but getting back on track, there weren't really many or any games like SMRPG before it, it's one of those games that are lightning in a bottle that has stood tall as one of the greatest games of its kind. PM64 took most of the DNA of SMRPG and did something similar while still reinventing things where possible, resulting in a game that with its sequel once more proved unique. This context is why I think the discourse has even more heat.
I'm personally of the camp that Super Paper Mario was a messy attempt to try something new that should not have used the Paper subseries to keep sales up by making it even more casual, per the Wii era of pandering to that audience, and I consider it a mediocre game all around, that even with its interesting story doesn't do anything for me because it doesn't engage me like PM64 and TTYD, but anyway, that's another topic altogether. The point I want to get at is that the conception of the series and eventual turn per SPM was something ill-conceived, and there's already been enough discourse among the players of what the hell goes on behind the scenes with the developers (which is also its own can of worms, Intelligent Systems has been a crapshot for years now).
I'll forever be of the salty camp that losing the SMRPG DNA is what condemned the series. It first lost its gameplay DNA with Super, trying to keep a semblance of the writing, but then it lost all of it from Sticker Star onwards.
it's like they had no idea how to top the first 2 games so they just went "ah fuck it let's make the 2d Bowser sections from the Paper Mario 2 into a game"
Both Paper Mario eras don’t matter discussing which is better. Besides, if I wanted to play a great Paper Mario game, I’d honestly play Paper Mario 64, the new TTYD remake (I Wonder If Nintendo Will Nerf The Enemies And The Bosses), Super Paper Mario and The Origami King.
i'm a Fan of Mario games and such, my first Paper Mario was Super Paper Mario and i love it! and then i went to see the other games, i love both Paper Mario 64 and TTYD, i consider the first 3 as the best trilogy.
with Sticker Star i consider it not only the Worst Paper Mario, but a Bad Mario game in general, and i've played so much Mario Games and i consider Mario Party 9 as a good game dispite their issues. it's just so bland and generic, even for Mario standars at the time, same with Color Splash, but at least it has some funny gags and cool enviroment.
with Origami King however, i feel like a good game, not as good as the first 3, but not as terrible as the last 2, i even consider it at pair with PM64 with the beautiful visuals, good story, cool gameplay and some funny moments, but the lack of unique characters and EXP was still a downgrade, heck i only wanted HP EXP system so the battle doesn't feel pointless, but some of the system in battle i like it and if it has EXP it would have been great! such as Wave Battles in which multiple of the overworld enemies jumps off into you, joining the fight as a singular big battle, this would make EXP grinding so much faster and more fun!
also on side note with TOK, Olly is one of the best villains i've seen in Paper Mario, the things he did to get rid of the toad, take both kingdoms and doesn't have any issue with get rid of his sister, and the way he did it, it's wonderful! i even consider him part of the Dimentio and Count Bleck tier. but the Origin Story and the conclusion is just terrible, not even for a funny joke, this was so awful, is like this Horse meme in which the cover art is shit but the content is a gem. i thought he will be like if Olly only wanted to be accepted but the Toads were so racist towards him for being different (and c'mon, in this game we saw how Toads cares shit for the Trees and the Koopas while the Koopas only wanted some peace and even help each other) and all those years of being mistreated lead him to get rid of all the Toads and create his own crafted world where there's peace for the Origami People, and kill all those who get in the middle. and the conclusion could have been that after the Battle Olivia show him that not all Toads are bad and there's good people out there, such as his creator, the Craftsman.
For me when it comes to Paper Mario or RPG'S in general, I wanted something simple and easy to understand, but still felt challenging with solid gameplay & an solid story. I think Paper Mario 64 & The Thousand Year Door did both of them terrifically and why there my favorites in the series. It's an shame the rest afterwards sacrifices some aspect that works from previous 2 and got rid of them entirely. Super does have an fantastic story, but it's gameplay is the weakest part. Sticker Star was the trend that got rid of telling interesting stories & gets rid of alot of the RPG elements and makes them an NSMB of Paper Mario. Color Splash is the same as Sticker Star. Origami King is the best out of the modern Paper Mario games, but it still wasn't what we expect. To this day, no other games comes close to balanced of the story & gameplay as well as the first 2 PA Mario game has. There's an game called Bug Fable that's an spiritual successor to the first 2 Paper Mario titles and it's exactly what I wanted. I hope the remake of TTYD sells really well and brings the formula back on it's roots so we can have something like Paper Mario 64 & TTYD.
Cheese 🤔
I love every single Paper Mario game because I don’t compare them and I enjoy them for what they are
Exactly
Darn right!
Comparing things increases your critical thinking skills.
Unfortunately, sharing a title with other video games tends to invite comparisons to those other video games, and in every comparison, there's usually a less-good one.
12:26 "...a game that I couldn't play because I didn't own a Gamecube. So I did the next best thing and got Super Paper Mario."
The Wii is backwards compatible...
Yes, but getting a copy of the thousand year door is next to impossible.
@@The_Renaissance. True. I first played the game on Dolphin as well.
Paper Mario ttyd was the first one I played I played super paper Mario I didn't beat it the I played origami king I can't beat king Ollie
I’m an advocate for gameplay but my gosh I did not like the recent Paper Mario battle systems. The turn time limit in Origami King really irked me.
The funny thing is that this video acknowledges that Paper Mario talking points are about story and gameplay, and yet in both the first three win heavily. Ironically, Sticker Star is the best about gameplay in battle out of the Sticker Star-likes because it has nothing to its name so it has no further gimmicks. Even the whole “must use a weakness” thing is not necessarily true if you have strong Things.
Super Paper Mario's story is yes, its gameplay was alright. Thats why Ill just stick with the mario and luigi series
The best way I can describe the transition between Super Paper Mario and the modern PM trilogy, is that SPM was an actual Action-Adventure game with light RPG mechanics (the fact that enemies gave XP when defeated, which did level up and improve your characters. But there was no Turned Base Combat)
The modern trilogy's gameplay, is a Turn Based RPG masquerading as an Action Adventure Game. The mechanics of the Turn Based battles just don't work so well. They were interesting ideas, but let's not do them again, please...If you're doing Turn Based Combat, do an actual RPG System! If you want to do an Action Adventure Game, take SPM as inspiration, and stop the Turn Based Battle stuff but still find a way to allow the Player to do increasingly higher numbers of damage to enemies as they play
Thumbnail is very misleading, it implies modern PM has better gameplay than the first 3. Should be Story & Gameplay vs whatever modern PM is
Both gameplay and story are important let's just all agree sticker star does neither
Watched the whole thing, wonderful analysis!
0:11 super Mario rpg did…
Honestly, while I agree opinions will always be biased to where you began in a series, you still have to add in the personal tastes of every individual since I started with Super Paper Mario and enjoyed it, then I went and played TTYD and ended with N64 and let me tell you even when I started with Super I truly felt blown away by TTYD and it remains my favorite to date, I did enjoy Sticker Star as I thought, this is a 3DS game so it gets a pass but Color Splash was disappointing to me and then came Origami King which I only watched my younger brother play and thought it was ok but not good tbh. I still revisit TTYD to this day and still have such a blast playing it, I enjoy the story so much and the gameplay so to me I do agree it is the epitome of Paper Mario games and I am so glad it will finally be available to newer or first time players.
this whole paper mario fanbase dividing thing reminds me of the atelier fanbase as there's people who like the old rpg style and those who like the newer jrpg style. There was a switch release titled atelier ryza 2 that introduced Millions of new fans into the series including myself, then the next game atelier sophe 2 was a return to form of the old rpg style but Many new fans including myself expressed their hatred and disappointment towards the game as it betrayed the new atelier jrpg style and the game was a Massive Failure To The Series, it failed so badly that the original jrpg ryza game Sold Better And They Were Basically Forced To Give Us Newer Fans A Return To Form Instead That's Not A Good Sign At All it just goes to show that changing the genre within series like paper mario and atelier outright Divided The Fanbase Entirely and we only have the developers to blame
2 weeks late but i actually don't think TTYD improved upon 64 much at all. The badge stacking system with teh ability to get the most broken badges infinitely is trash. The additional QTE's kind of suck and the backtracking in teh story was drastically increased. TTYD is such a downgrade from 64. I pretty much exclusively like 64 the best because of its simplicity and wonderful pacing. TTYD is good but not what i want from paper mario. Needless to say i won't be buying the remake for TTYD likely as well.
Super Paper Mario with TTYD battles would be GOTY
Personally I hate sticker star and tok, color splash is great though, not as an action adventure or even as a game necessarily, but it was to be one of the funniest comedy's ever, the comedic writing is brilliant.
Anyway the classic games are great, and for me, I played them in the order of
64>super>sticker star (these three can very but I played them as a kid lol) > LONG GAP> ttyd> tok> cs
Ttyd is my fav game of all time
1:09-1:12 kinda why I think ppl don't like the new games
Parts of Super are impossible without a guide? Are you talking about paying off your debt to Mimi? You just gotta go around and talk to people to learn stuff. Nothing else immediately comes to mind as being obtuse
I’m referring to that part in chapter five where you have to hit 3 blocks in a certain order. I couldn’t remember the order because it was such a large list, so I used I guide, but I guess I could have written it down as well.
@@The_Renaissance. I guess that's fair. Most people wouldn't expect to need to write something down in a Mario game.
@@SpiritOfGotham Also sorry for the late response. My videos kinda blew up out of nowhere, and I’m still trying to catch up.
I love TH-cam videos about topics I like where the person making it hasn’t experienced the things they’re talking about and literally did zero research besides the reviews he’s seen of these games by people who’ve actually played the goddamn games. The hammer came from Super Mario RPG btw, I played that game for less than an hour to learn that.
He probably meant as an overworld item not just a battle item
Paper was never meant to be the focus
The Japanese name of Paper Mario was "Mario Story"
Nothing to do with paper
Instead, the paper cutout aesthetic was meant to evoke a storybook feeling rather than arts and crafts
New Paper Mario has completely lost sight of that
Anyone defending sticker star needs to be lined up for a public exicution by fire squad.
MY ranking for paper mario is ttyd, n64, origami, super paper mario color splash and then sticker star... But color splash and sucky star are = to the last 3 starwars movies we dont talk about them...
To the thought of story or paper gimic, Everything focused on the paper gimic sucks, hmm wonder why there isnt any story, ttyd balanced it with it, while the rest focus to much on it vs the plot.
To the comment of imagine if they didnt experiment with super, There is some truth to that, but when told hey we sorta miss the battle style they RUINED it each time after, and ignored the complaint of how it was little to no story then origami released and they braught back some mechanics from ttyd whcih fan actually liked, and they realized ooh ppl Actually want ttyd o lets give it to them see if they will put thier money where thier complaining mouths are.
I do hope you're joking about that first sentence
@@prosylan6368 2 months later on the comment but eeh i think its true, but fine if we can line them up atleast labotomize would be more humane.
@@DemonicGoddess it's just video games it's not that serious
@@prosylan6368 I mean neither is a pronoune but ppl frieak out of them and demand anyone who doesnt use them be fired in a line.
So to each thier own what deserves the void after.
honestly, sticker star is still the worst game imo, but it's not all that bad in every way.
it did some good things, but my god, the flaws ruined it... don't even get me started on those "special stickers."
retitle to "Why are so many people defending utter garbage"