Paper Mario's Fandom Explained With a Broken Family Analogy [Redux]
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ค. 2024
- Paper Mario fans have been seriously divided for a long time now. While Super Paper Mario made waves by switching up the formula, Sticker Star marked a complete separation from the games that came before it as a new direction for the series, which now has a trilogy of its own with Color Splash & The Origami King.
Starting with Sticker Star, the more recent three focused far less on unique characters & battles in favor of paper-related gimmicks. Because of this, I suggest we unofficially split the fandom into two separate branches: the first set of games can be called the "Mario Storybook" trilogy, and the second set the "Mario Pop-Up Book" or the "Literal Paper Mario" trilogy.
This video remakes my original analogy explaining what it feels like to be a fan of Paper Mario today, and then elaborates on why Super Paper Mario has more in common with the first two games than the modern ones. This is all in the hope that we can all unite again through different communities.
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Music used (in order):
♫ Main Title - Paper Mario
♫ A Party at Peach's Castle
♫ March Ahead
♫ Story Music Box - Yoshi's Island
♫ Rawk Hawk Battle - The Thousand Year Door
♫ Hooktail Castle
♫ The Golden Coliseum - Color Splash
♫ Glitzville
♫ Today's Story - Super Paper Mario
♫ King of the Koopas - PM
♫ Battle Fanfare
♫ Mushroom Plains - New Super Mario Bros.
♫ Hello! Time Travelers - Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time
♫ Bobby's Memories - The Origami King
♫ Paper Mario Medley - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
♫ Don Pianta's Theme - TTYD
♫ Soul Rumblings - CS
♫ Cheer Up, Olivia! - TOK
♫ Pool Party (Jump in!)
♫ Shy Guys Finish Last
♫ Super Paper Mario
♫ Our Story Begins - TTYD
♫ Main Title - PM
Sources & further reading
Sprites:
⍟ Paper Mario items ripped by Dazz. Enemies & NPCs - Retriever II
www.spriters-resource.com/nin...
⍟ TTYD recipes - MartinMayonnaise. Characters - SuperTVGRFan18496, fawfulthegreat64, Stooben, Androu1
www.spriters-resource.com/gam...
⍟ Super Paper Mario recipes - redblueyellow
www.spriters-resource.com/wii...
⍟ SPM Pixls - Fiery Spyro
www.mariowiki.com/Gallery:Sup...
⍟ Sticker Star battle stickers - aldelaro5. Enemies by Ploaj
www.spriters-resource.com/3ds...
⍟ The Origami King item icons - fawfulthegreat64
www.spriters-resource.com/nin...
⍟ Super Mario Bros. goomba - Superjustinbros
www.spriters-resource.com/nes...
⍟ Yoshi's Island boo - Barack Obama, Murphmario
www.spriters-resource.com/sne...
Images:
⍟ Paper Mario official art - Mariomario64, Jorge, YoshiGo99, Gromp, SWFlash, and Shokora
www.mariowiki.com/Gallery:Pap...
⍟ TTYD official art - Turboo, Mario, WarioLoaf, Shokora, SWFlash, Fawfulthegreat64, and Doomdorm64
www.mariowiki.com/Gallery:Pap...
⍟ Super Paper Mario official art - Robotortoise, Fawfulthegreat64, RAP, Super Candy, Shokora, Bowser the Second
www.mariowiki.com/Gallery:Sup...
⍟ Sticker Star official art - Xavier, Shokora
www.mariowiki.com/Gallery:Pap...
⍟ Color Splash official art - Trig Jegman, Wildgoosespeeder, Blhte
www.mariowiki.com/Gallery:Pap...
⍟ The Origami King official art - Raymondsze and Luigi1234
www.mariowiki.com/Gallery:Pap...
⍟ Spike (Super Mario Bros. 3) official art - Blhte
www.mariowiki.com/File:SMB3_F...
Super Mario 64 DS print ad - jirokissawa
/ super_mario_64_ds_prin...
⍟ Paper Mario restriction graphic
/ i_figured_out_the_true...
Articles referenced:
⍟ Sticker Star Iwata Asks interview
iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/papermario
⍟ TOK interview
videogameschronicle.com/features/interviews/paper-mario-origami-king
Sound effects:
⍟ TTYD SFX - LeonidJeweller
www.sounds-resource.com/gamec...
⍟ Paper rip 2 - zachfbstudios
⍟ Color Splash jingles - Gaming Musik
• Fanfares and Jingles -...
⍟ Super Paper Mario SFX - fawfulthegreat64
www.sounds-resource.com/wii/s...
⍟ Dedf1sh song - Squidtent
splatoonwiki.org/wiki/Categor...
⍟ Super Mario 64 Chain Chomp
themushroomkingdom.net/media/...
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► Twitter - / thanegaming
► Instagram - / thanegaming
0:00 - Introduction
0:28 - Broken family analogy
5:06 - Super Paper Mario belongs w/ the originals
13:32 - Future of the series
14:22 - Patrons
14:29 - End card
#papermario #ttyd #thethousandyeardoor - เกม
Thank you for the point about SPM. That game IS a true sequel to TTYD. The connections between them go even deeper than you mentioned. For example:
- TTYD and SPM have the same UI in most places (same menu backgrounds, "glove" text selector, same selection sounds)
- TTYD (and the first game for that matter) have all of their partners reappear as photos in Mario's house and as Catch Cards in SPM, and the game files indicate they were planned to make physical appearances as well but were scrapped for unknown reasons
-TTYD's action commands reappear as the mechanism behind items in SPM. The same design is used for them and everything. I feel like people really overlook this one
-TTYD and SPM use the same environments for recurring areas (Mario's house, Bowser's Castle, etc.) They use the same models, backgrounds, and everything. They are quite literally the same places
-TTYD and SPM use the same engine and maps from one game can be loaded in the other via hacks
-TTYD and SPM are the only two games in the series with the Pit Of 100 Trials. SPM built on the idea (like a sequel does) by including two Pits with better rewards
-There are shared motifs and patterns everywhere, like with both games having a dragon as the first boss (Hooktail and Fracktail) who later has an upgraded version appear in the Pit (Bonetail and Wracktail)
-Both games use the same soundfont for their soundtracks, and leitmotifs from TTYD appear in SPM's soundtrack. (For example, Grodus' theme can be heard in the SPM track "In The Darkness")
-While this could possibly be included in the "shared patterns" bullet point, I'll make it a separate one because I feel it's notable. Both games' final chapters have the same layout: You fight through a castle of darkness to reach the main villain, and the battle turns out to be a fake final boss fight. The true main villain is then revealed as one of Mario's friend's is possessed to become the true demonic final boss. The end of the world commences. This true final boss is invincible until a supernatural power from the artifacts intercedes and Mario is emboldened. This parallel is so pronounced it's tough to ignore
-TTYD and SPM are the only Paper Mario games to be linked forward. Put another way, TTYD is the only game that intentionally foreshadowed its successor. The Toad in Petalburg in TTYD says that "if you like Luigi, you'll love the next [Paper Mario] game."
And on and on. I could keep going.
The only reason SPM changed the combat from TTYD is because SPM was originally expected to be a Gamecube game. The devs worried that another Paper Mario game on the same system with the same gameplay would be too repetitive, so they changed the combat. However, artistically speaking, they were made with the exact same sensibilities and intentions.
TTYD and SPM are like brothers with different hair colors. They're different in a single way, but they have the same DNA. Their similarities go right to the bone. Just because SPM doesn't have the same combat does not mean that it is not a true sequel.
spm technically has 3 pits
Super Paper Mario is like that one kid whose siblings will occasionally ask their parents if he's adopted when he isn't. A bit different, but still ultimately cut from the same cloth.
That's my thoughts exactly
The annoying thing about color splash is that it was so close to being a great game. It doesn’t have a super complex story or anything, but it’s not trying to so that doesn’t bother me. It’s easily the funniest Mario game ever made and the game is gorgeous and all the areas are super fun to explore and have something unique about them. The music is also fantastic. The only thing that drags it down is the battle system. The game has some other problems like those chase sequences were if you die it takes you all the way back to the title screen and the toads not having unique designs but those are all annoyances more than anything. I wouldn’t call them massive problems. If color splash was remade and it just ditched the battle system all together and it was just overworld combat like in super and it gave all of the toads unique designs, it would be glorious. I honestly like color splash way more than origami king. There are so many things in origami king that annoy me way more than anything in color splash
Yeah, I really like Color Splash, even more than most who played it, but the battle system does drag it down. I found the fights to be OK, perhaps a little better than Sticker Star, but to me it is leagues above that game overall because I found value in everything else (like you described). Sure, SS had great music and a couple of funny lines, but the stellar writing and exploration/locales of CS won me over. I agree that its issues unrelated to the combat are annoyances rather than major problems.
I found sticker star’s system better than Color splash’s because the Color splash one IS SO LONG. There’s so many inputs and it still has all the cards and stuff. At least sticker stat just lets you get straight to the attack. But stickers still suck.
@@bigdealbro3439but in CS, the fights actually *mean* something. Winning a fight gives you hammer points, which makes your first strikes stronger, allowing you to skip fights later down the line, and it also improves the amount of paint your hammer holds, so you don’t have to refill it as much. That definitely is enough for me to push CS way above both SS and OK due to the fact that there’s a resource that’s exclusive to battling again.
@@bracken8782 Ok maybe its better than Sticker Star, but not Origami King. The most efficient way to win coins is through battling and bosses, and coins are CRUCIAL in that game. The most efficient way to fill up your confetti bag is also battling, which is also CRUCIAL. If you dont need any of those you could argue its useless, especially in the last few areas where theres no shops and very little holes. But the best thing about the battle system is that the weapons arent consumerable, besides the more powerful ones and items which you get in shops, so you always have boots and hammer, plus some extras that wear off a bit with each use, not straight away. You dont have to look for a specific weapon because theres no cards or stickers. Definitely the best system of the three games.
@@bigdealbro3439 and yet the actual process of fighting is an absolute chore. Sorry, but i’d happily take the card system of color splash over the stupid board system from Origami King. It only ever worked on bosses, and even then it didn’t work well.
Pm 64 was the start
Ttyd said: ima see how i can improve what you did
SPM said: yall did some cool stuff, but ima try my own thing.
64 is the original recipe. Important, but can be improved upon. TTYD added stuff to improve the recipe without changing the dish too much. SPM chose to make their own dish using what was learned from the first two but kept some of the similar parts so it felt familiar.
Sticker star lost the original recipe and made it's own, but it was foul and bitter. Color splash attempted to improve it by making it look nicer but the core ingredient was rotten and unfixable, Origami King threw out that rotten ingredient and substituted it for something new to make the dish it's own so it didn't fall into the same trap as the two before it.
TTYD remake is someone finding the lost recipe and making the dish anew for a new generation to enjoy after many thought it would be lost forever.
More like “y’all objectively made two of the greatest pieces of media to ever exist, but instead of following up in that, ima settle for being a slightly above-average linear 2D platformer with a couple 3D young-child-targeted gimmicks mixed in”
Still 100000x better than Sticker star, Color Splash, and Origami King combined tho
@@fakename5308 hop off SPM and TOK lil bro
@@fakename5308 💩er Star, Color Trash, Bore-igami Thing.
After Mario Odyssey showed us half a dozen kingdoms each with their unique NPC races I really wish we could have those in a new Paper Mario aswell.
gonna be honest. it could be horifyingly detailed closeups or funny cut outs of real people photos for what I'm imagining new donker's in a paper mario style would look like now.
“Aswell” 😭
After Mario wonder too let's be real !! Just imagine some baboom, pikcord and all these mobs as paper NPC ! Even talking flowers and poplin it would be so cool !! poplins
That interview about not being able to make new variants has always been iffy to me. Sticker Star had Poison Bloopers, which are just as much of a variant as Clubbas or Putrid Piranhas. There's also Mural Koopas and Mural Goombas, which are extremely stylized.
Also, I think the Superstar Saga changes were due to budget constraints, since the Bowser's Inside Story remake had new species as the Best Fitness Friends
Yeah the whole thing is super weird, I'm just happy the restrictions seem to be loosening. We've already got faithful (and what looks to be faithful) remakes of Super Mario RPG + The Thousand Year Door, so we'll see what types of character designs we'll get in a brand new release. Sticker Star & Color Splash did have Poison Bloopers, while the Mural Koopas/Goombas appear in The Origami King, though they seem to be the only real expections that break the vaguely defined rule. I could make a huge list of all the variants of the original Paper Mario games.
Fair enough, I can see the Superstar Saga/BiS changes being due to budget constraints via reusing assets. I can also see why the interview has been iffy to you--it's very odd for this all to have effected the Paper Mario series only
I personally put little stock in the interview, as the only official directive Miyamoto was ever documented to have given the team was “stick to established characters in the Super Mario franchise“. And even then, it was intended more to be well intentioned advice because he didn’t think Sticker Star was headed in a direction that was going to work.
The bigger issue nobody talks about is the shift in executive producers at IS and how no one there really knew what they were doing when it came to Paper Mario; which resulted in them taking a shot in the dark and crossing their fingers.
@@Nintendotron64If Mario and Luigi Paper Jam is anything, to go by, those restrictions could actually be true since it still includes the Paper Mario and the game wasn't as creative as previous M&L games.
I’ve also always imagined the SPM child in this analogy to be like, super neurodivergent, kinda being off in their own world and obsessively fantasize scenarios with some of their favorite fictional characters. Not just because I think that’s fitting, but as a fellow haver of autism, having a hyper fixation with this game at some point in your life is just required lol
i honestly loved SPM chapter 7 as a story, and i wish a game centered around Luvbi, Grambi, Jaydes, and Bonechill existed, as a game taking place after SPM. i just hate how they put in such an amazing concept, only to never use it again
SPM's chapter 7 is my favorite as well, the concept is just so cool. I love that it's all heavily inspired by real world myth, and "Game Overs" are incorporated in-universe as the equivalent to death. If whatever Paper Mario follows the TTYD remake decides to revisit previous ideas, I would scream if they found a way to work in those characters
That would be amazing tbh chapter 7 was definitely a highlight of the game's story
@@cosmiccentaur ikr?!
I've been a Paper Mario fan ever since I was 6 and as much as I adore this series, I've grown tired of arguing about it. I was really excited when TOK was announced and it was disheartening to see so much debate sparked over it just like Color Splash. I'm not saying we can't have critical discussions about the direction the series went in, as you said, but it's frustrating seeing both sides constantly at each other's throats. TTYD is one of my favorite games of all time, and it hurts to see fans of that game bash the new games and their fans, especially when it causes many to hate TTYD out of spite. I hope the remake finally breaks this cycle and this is a game many on both sides can enjoy, or at least respect the different opinions about.
Thanks for this video, I really like the analogy you put together and will keep it in mind when discussing this series and the discourse surrounding it with friends.
What makes the whole character restriction thing even more confusing is that if it really was established during Sticker Star's development, then why didn't it effect Drem Team in any way? That game came out a year later and still kept the same originality and charm of the previous Mario & Luigi games without any limitations. Even the changes made in the remakes are relatively minor, just some enemy designs having a more uniform look. It's not like they say straight up replaced Popple with Nabbit or something. The only M&L to abide the same limitations as Paper Mario happens to be the crossover with that series. It just feels like there's a strange double standard with those rules in regard to Paper Mario specifically.
They (Miyamoto especially) forgot it started as Mario Story and focused in on the paper aesthetic.
I grew up with original trilogy, and I'm more than excited for the TTYD remake, but I also grew up with a more open mind on Color Splash and The Origami King.
Color Splash, while suffering with a lackluster combat system, has really hilarious dialogue and interesting settings and themes. The Origami King, the game I personally enjoy the most out of the modern trilogy, has a fantastic soundtrack that I still listen to this day, and the areas you visit are fun to explore. The combat system, while not perfect, doesn't bother me as much as the ones from the last two games.
Like you, I actually like at least 5 out of the 6 games, and they all have their pros and cons. The original trilogy just has higher pros and fewer cons. Screw the tedious backtracking in the TTYD, though. I hope they fix that in the remake. And the less said about Sticker Star, the better.
The whole interview that said they can’t make any new characters/different designs never really made sense to me since that’s exactly what other mario games don’t do. Take Odyssey for example, it introduced so many new characters/races to the series
I think Nintendo just holds their second-party studios to stricter standards than their in-house/first-party studios. Super's crazyness on their all-new mass-market console freaked them out, so they made Intelligent cool it down for the fiture games until now, but the in-house team is trusted and more curated, so they can do as they please.
I like that the mom is the MMA fighter.
I now imagine the paper marios at a thanksgiving table as a bunch of various jumping, hammering, voice, and paper sounds come from it
i imagine the Annoying Partner Trio for the literal paper marios doing translation for the nonliteral paper marios and back the other way
The fandoms like a taco, games like super paper Mario to Origami king are the little meat pieces that fall out that you save for a later taco, and the first two games are like the tortilla, irreplaceable.
That's beautiful 🌮
That's... actually a very solid analogy, now that I think about it. While likely impossible to happen, I really do hope the Paper Mario fandom becomes kinder towards one another. Great video!
this is an amazing analogy to how to treat the series, I've seen others talk about them divided before which is very much apparent in the fandom but using the idea of them being a family is a really good idea!
Thank you! It's definitely a bit of an odd analogy but I do think it's appropriate for the unique situation the fans of this franchise are in. I'm glad you liked the idea!
I am guessing Super Mario RPG is the grandpa and Mario & Luigi Paper Jam is that cousin that early visits is what is talked about.
what I hate from paper mario 4,5 and 6 is how they make it like Paper mario 1,2, and 3 never happened
Yeah, it's like a reboot of the series even though it wasn't advertised as such and there's *very occasional* references to the originals. It's unfortunate that Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam released when it did because while mechanically it's a very fun game to play, the Paper Mario representation was very weak because it couldn't embrace its own history and used only assets from Sticker Star
Do you know that Sticker Star REFERENCES Goombella? Saying that she was gonna research on Chomp Ruins?
@@cutorly Ye I talk about it at 11:48
@@ThaneGaming Ah I see.
I absolutely love Color Splash and Oragami King, but I do also love the idea of the first three. I'm gonna play the TTYD remake when it releases, because it seems like something I'd genuinely love too.
I have never been one to stoke flames in any kind of Fandom...because, what's the point? People deserve to enjoy what they enjoy, even if we may not all the time. Be it Star Wars, Paper Mario...or anything, it's okay to be critical, but to mercilessly tear down people's work and fans is just not for me.
Yes, thank you! It's sad to see any community based around something you love acting toxic because of fans not accepting eachother. I love when discourse get heated, but there's a difference between respectful debates and berating another for disagreeing with your opinions.
Yeah. It's important that people be respectful, even if they don't agree.
If they don't, it more just makes me uncomfortable being in those fandoms, to the point that it's prevented me from playing or watching media I actually wound up really liking.
@@michaelkaduck1915 for sure, I actually avoided Undertale when it first came out and didn't wind up playing until years later even though I knew I'd love it, because I remember EarthBound/UT fans really having it out for eachother back then as the two were compared so much. It sadly created a lot of tension on both sides!
I loved undertale a lot, and i heard that the fanbase was toxic but never knew exactly why, but that didn't stop me from playing nor enjoying the game. And im sad to see that the PM community is literally split in half. My first and so far only pm game was ttyd. I was a little upset to find out the newer games were very different but am excited to see what new things they bring in.
Paper is extremely flammable so that's insane.
I HATE that ppl are hating on Origami Kimg now, awesome characters, story, music i love it i cried at the end and at the Bobby part
i cried at the same parts 😅 origami king is so fun and the stationery bosses are silly in a good way!! its a shame you cant go like anywhere online abt it without seeing arguments at least once
14:18 Instead of "on occasion" shoulda said "on Thanksgiving" as a small callback to 4:22
I agree, then I could've added a lovely turkey gobble sound to close out the video
Again, an excellent and timely remake, Thane…however, I am afraid you have STILL neglected to mention that the Super Paper Mario child is a goth.
Excited for the remake. Very anxious about whatll follow this
1:39 I can guarantee that the one excluded is the one with the (actual) worst backtracking, along with the least amount of dialogue from Peach and Bowser of all the Paper Mario games…
You are correct! Bowser actually has no dialogue in the game at all💀
TO add onto this, Mario RPG is the grandfather that created the idea of a mario RPG and the mario and luigi series is the brother of the paper mario series that passed away too early and brought back their grandpa and eventually got the father and the ex back on speaking terms
dad was never the same after his wife Miyamoto came into the family.
With the announcement of TTYD Remake I'm glad this video received an addendum. It fits very now as its own standalone video!
I'd say SPM is its own thing, not part of either side of the design. It is the 'transition' game, if you will.
I can respect that. I will never not see it as a sequel to the first two games because of all the lore continued between them, but it's fine to think of it as a "spinoff" of the first two. I did try and allude to that in the analogy, envisioning the child as not being as close to his two brothers & sleeping in a separate room but still having the same parents
Btw, I should mention it, but while the newer Paper Mario doesn´t seems to have the same continuity, it has some clear references to older Paper Mario Universe. One of the most obvious, is the Princess Portraits on TOK Ship section, but on a more direct note, there are references to Goombella and ParraKarry on the level 5-1 garbage zone. And a last one, is that Princess Peach Castle has blue flags resembling PM64 Peach Castle, and knowing that on beta leftover they are red Mario64 flags, this seems like a deliberate change.
I talk about all of those references except for that last one at 11:48! I decided that while there is a clear through-line connecting all six games with light callbacks like this, the threads that hold them together are much stronger with the separate trilogies. Thanks for your comment, it is important to mention!
Apologies!
@@JoseViktor4099 you're totally fine! I didn't mention the flags on Peach's Castle--I forgot they did that so I'm happy you brought it up
The analogy you used to explain this was really interesting, it’s somewhat funny how the last three got categorized considering how those games get dark, especially he origami king
I normally reserve my negativity for the Pokemon fanbase, but honestly, I don't see this one getting any better. We've been seeing this for years now. A new game is released, and older fans complain and lash out at newer fans, claiming it's their fault the newer games continue their trend. And because of this, said newer fans retaliate. I agree that both sides should get along, but yeah, I'm just not seeing it happening anytime soon.
Honestly, if the Paper Mario fanbase does get along together, it will be because either the Paper Mario series is dead or because either of the trilogies is dead because they are kicked out with the seventh Paper Mario game. That is, either the Sticker Star-likes is THE direction and the Paper Mario fans kick themselves out, or the next few adventure is like either the first two or Super Paper Mario and the Sticker Star-likes are acknowledged as a 2010s mistake and nothing more. The original trilogy and the Sticker Star-likes are so irreconcilable that unlike most fandoms, it really will be the original game or the Sticker Star-likes.
Ah... i remember the days when super was looked down upon and now it's mostly accepted... good times
I pretty sure that the only thing bad about sticker star, besides the art direction, is that it's confusing on where it wants you to go. I'm absolutely sure that if a remake were to help the game gesture you in the correct direction it'd make the game 10 times better. Not full out point, but loosen the requirements to beat the bosses. Color Splash also was this to a lesser extent, but make the game less specific and cryptic and easy 9/10.
The sad fact is that technically there are no restrictions on bosses. You can easily beat the Megasparkle Goomba without the fan. The rest require farming workarounds but no specified Thing Sticker is required. The funniest thing about this is that since everybody is in agreement Kersti hinders and belittles you, angering her should be a badge of pride. You mucked through the tedium to show Kersti up, and to even interact with her in that way is more than she deserves.
Yes, I also agree SPM is the third in the storybook trilogy. They just wanted to be different, especially since it was originally developed for the GameCube; they didn't want to cannibalize the sales of TTYD. But it clearly has more similarities to the first 2 games over Sticker Star... I'd prefer a new SPM style game over another style from the popup trilogy
I think that the series in the future will likely follow The Origami King. It is the third best selling Mario RPG ever and was mostly well received. It is also my favorite game in the series so I am very hopeful for that outcome. I think that the remakes of Super Mario RPG and The Thousand Year Door are safety remasters to decide the future of this franchise. However it is my belief that paper Mario 7 is well into development by now and will be an early Switch 2 release sometime around 2025.
I love TOK, so I don't personally mind a follow-up to it, although I do think it's time they try and make that new game with classic battle mechanics. They've been trying to reinvent the wheel with each entry--I thought the ring system was clever (especially the bosses, those were fun), but I know it was divisive and it's been long enough that another attempt at the original formula would be welcomed. I'm happy to see someone spreading TOK love, it needs more of it. I do think that it's the third best selling Mario RPG because the Switch install base is massive, though. TTYD's sales were impressive for example because the numbers were very high for the far fewer amount of people who owned GameCubes than Switch, so it had a great attach rate
I'm going to be honest about something, I didn't grow up with ttyd, I played most of the other games before playing that one, still, once I got to play it, I understanded the love and I can say it's definitely one of the best, if not the best of the series.
But the toxicity of the community towards the other games made me really starting have a lack of enjoyment when it comes to ttyd, be the game or just things like content on youtube, I start to actually get annoyed at people when they say thousand year door is the best one, even though I AGREE with they.
In the end, I have nothing against the game, it's really just against the community itself, but it become something hard to enjoy when I can't even bring up the good things of other games without someone "correcting" me.
I think I just found a new favorite series :D
God, I'd LOVE a Super remaster!
Super Paper Mario was not part of the original trilogy, because Super Mario RPG was really the original first game
Paper Mario was inarguably inspired by Super Mario RPG with the timed hits/tattles, syrup replenishing FP, and the focus on stars & wishes. It was even envisioned as a direct sequel!
However, I feel that the final product ultimately deviated too much, and it became a new thing with its own worldbuilding. A "reimagining" much like Sticker Star, CS, & TOK having their own continuity. It wasn't made by Square Enix, and there are no callbacks besides what I mentioned above. It is an interesting idea, but because SPM furthers the lore unique to the previous two, I can't see casting it aside in favor of SMRPG. Maybe they can all be considered a "quartet" of games lol
1:42 I wonder, which one could you possibly not like? *glances at...it which shall not be named*
I've replayed all of them at least twice, except for *that one*...which I finished once and haven't touched since. I do actually want to play it again so I can take notes of all the things I can find to like about it, but it will forever be the game that dissapointed me the most on release.
@@ThaneGaming The funny thing is it was actually my first paper mario game and I enjoied it when I was joung. But looking back, it doesn't hold up much
@@justcallmeleonardo Have you played all the games since? I'm curious to know the order you went through them. I think if I hadn't played a Paper Mario game before it, I would've liked it a fair amount too
@@ThaneGamingit was my first. I went back recently. Wanted to peel my skin off.
@@ThaneGaming Sadly I've only played Origami King. I've wanted to play the others for so long and I remember watching sooo many SPM let's plays a while back, but I own only a 3ds and a Switch and I'm not much into emulation so yeah. For this reason I'm very excited for the thousand year door remake!
Nice logo!
PMOK should be on it’s own, may not be a TTYD but not a sticker star by any means
I played all paper Mario games and personally, even when it has its fans, and is a decision I respect, I dont despise Sticker Star as a Paper Mario entry, i despise Sticker Star as a game on general. It goes so much against what I consider a good designed game for some fundamental decisions I wasnt able to see any attractive. I felt that it you removed one of three genre SS wanted to focus (puzzles, NSMB like Platforming, RPG system) it would be better. The only good thing I can say about the game apart music and visuals, is that TTYD RE came 2 months after the SS completion, giving me so much hype for contrast that it was awesome.
I respect your take! I personally felt disappointment with the game more than anything because it was a new entry in one of my favorite series that betrayed what I had loved about it, but I can understand simply not enjoying SS as a game as I do agree that the structure is flawed. I like your thought of removing one of its genre focuses to polish up the others--the Enigmansion is a fine example of how the game could work as that level leans more into having good atmosphere & puzzle design. I am very excited for the TTYD remake, and I'm curious to see which direction Intelligent Systems takes Paper Mario next!
As someone who likes both the classic quadrilogy and 2/3rds of the "newer" games (Sticker Star is the only one I genuinely disliked), all the flame wars caused by the reveal of Remake!TTYD just makes me sad. We should be celebrating that we got it, not using it as a metaphorical cudgel to attack the newer games and people who *dare* to like them.
I think it also helps that the streamers i follow (some big like Vinesauce and a couple smaller ones) were generally a bit more willing to engage the later two games of the Pop-Up Book trilogy on their own merits rather than just being sore about Sticker Star (and letting that taint their attitude towards the later games) unlike certain other big personalities/fans in the space.
What I'm saying here is that I get being critical of the newer games, but the announcement of the TTYD remake ended up tilting a lot of that criticism/negativity into outright toxicity. That shits never fun to deal with if ones a fan of both collections.
Nice video
Thank you, and for caring enough to let me know you liked it!
1:51
Grow as a phantom?
Fandom, though I can hear phantom haha
I like the idea that we fans are one collective phantom
I like PM64, Color Splash, and Origami King
That’s it that’s the whole comment
I'm just happy to see more Color Splash love, it gets a bad rap
I've never had a problem with people enjoying the modern games, I tend to critique the games themselves. I even like them to an extent, just dislike some aspects- Mostly the lack of unique character design and worldbuilding while matching with an equally unique narrative. Like stated in your analysis, games like Oragami King tries to remedy some of these issues but was held back by limitations.
I've never had a problem with the papercraft artstyle- Quite the opposite, really. I love it- It's just when there are a couple hundred different characters just named 'Toad' or 'Bob-Omb' is when I kinda take issue. That said, I do think the latter 3 games have their merits and I enjoy them to an extent, even if I just can't appreciate them as much as the original 3.
So… how does paper jam bros fit into this analogy?
I did resent the super papery style that sticker star started. Now I think that was just association with the change in direction I didn’t like. Now with the more papery visuals of the TTYD I do actually love it. As long as the story doesn’t actually acknowledge the paperyness much.
For sure! Sticker Star felt like a reboot stripping away everything the series had built up to that point by removing things like Bowser's character and giving us a less interesting plot than 64. I associated the papery style with negativity at first too, but now I just use the change in visuals to more easily distinguish the games. I quite like the look of Color Splash & TOK in particular, and SS's art style is nice besides the "New Super Mario Bros.-ification" of it all with *mostly* bland level design. TTYD remake looks to be a great blend of the two styles!
I miss recipes!! And Merlin and partners and so much. But what I miss the most is unique characters and species/races. Leave the generic Mario characters to the mainline games. Let the RPGs be their own thing! I also miss deeper stories, although those have been getting better. Part of the reason CS is so much better than SS is because the latter has the most bland locales and absolutely no story.
Agreed! I did actually enjoy the plot of The Origami King very much, and while Color Splash's story was still fairly light, you're right--it was leagues above what Sticker Star did. SS disappointed me so much following Super PM, as it stripped away everything the series had built up to that point (especially Bowser's character), and gave us a less interesting plot than 64. It really did feel like the New Super Mario Bros. of Paper Mario, but Color Splash & TOK managed to be much more interesting in terms of writing and exploration
I'm in the same boat as a fan of all the games minus Sticker Star, I mean if someone told me that they didn't like the classic trilogy and much more loved the modern one, than I wouldn't flame them, they have their preferences and I won't judge them. Tbh, the series can have the best of both worlds, TTYD had the paper aesthetic and were aware of being paper while still being an RPG with various unique elements, Mario folding up into a paper plane, boat, and tube are things you would expect out of the modern half of the series but TTYD pulled that card first. It was just heavily reinforced and became the over-arching theme from Sticker Star being stickers, Color Splash paint, and Origami King origami.
I will say in terms of the unique characters, even under their philosophy of not altering characters, there were several missed opportunities to include pre-established friendly NPCs besides Toads that have appeared in the mainline games(like beach and ocean areas could've had Piantas, and grasslands could've had rabbits to chase). I doubt the creative liberties were that tight, they were just playing it too safe by sticking within the bounds of NSMB in terms of characters. I do appreciate though the couple times in the modern series where they pulled enemies we rarely ever see in any game, some being way older than others: SS had Frostii, CS brought back Dino Rhinos, featured Draggadon, and gave the Shy Guys more attention than even Goombas, and then TOK brought back really unexpected ones, Jumping Piranha Plant, Snow Spike, Sumo Bro, Sidestepper, even the Shoe Goomba in 1 sub-area, if only I could see what they look like unfolded. (Btw did you know the Amazing Flying Hammer Bro was a scrapped idea for TOK? It's in the concept art in the museum.) Unique NPC designs are a wonderful trait especially for general Mario characters, but I think SPM went a little overboard with the insane number of characters that looked totally alien from the Mario Universe, it was like 80% races we haven't seen before and the 20% were familiar looking residents of the Mushroom Kingdom, even if the story of SPM took place outside the Mushroom Kingdom, idk if that's just me. TTYD had the perfect balance of new races and familiar races with their own lives: with Doogans, craws, Punis and Twilighters, that's adding only a few new NPC races and the familiar populace of races, and even a few vague pre-established ones becoming prevalent like Little Mousers and Piantas.
I feel like I'm the only one that enjoyed TOK's battle system, sure it took a little more brain power than just picking a card and painting it, but it felt so satisfying destroying rows of enemies with 1 selected attack instead of just bouncing on 1 enemy 5 times, though that system should stay exclusive to this game. The bosses really felt like Bosses with them positioned in the middle of the ring and we guide Mario to the center. Color Splash's system didn't feel as bad as Sticker Star because, we didn't have to buy access to more moves during battles and the cards we got were more plentiful and even at times packed into x2, x3 & x5 of a worn-out hammer or jump, so even if we kill the enemies before we use all our cards, at least if they are all worn out or weak cards I have no problem, Fire and Ice Flowers were far better too(this game also had an incentive to fight enemies unlike SS, we can upgrade our paint meter and collect enemy cards).
After saying all on my mind, I am very excited for the remake of TTYD, I do hope that whether by the influence of the surveys or the selling units when the game releases, that the direction of the franchise will curve for the better.
I still don't understand why people think origami king is a mid or bad game because it can be very fun I just don't understand why people will say I like sticker star and color splash even though I don't like those 2 games
(P.S. I have played the original and super and I wanna play TTYD SO badly)
Hopefully with the TYD remake, Nintendo will realize that sometimes the simplicity works the best, at least with the battle system. I'm more of a story person than a gameplay, if that makes sense. If the gameplay (in this case, battle system) is too complicated, I'm going to drop it and never touch it again. I'm there to enjoy the story, not to hurt my brain with puzzle logics (origami king, i'm looking at you).
But okay Nintendo. Look at Pokemon for goodness' sake, their battle systems stayed the same (despite certain gimmicks differing with each generation) yet still is a wildly popular franchise to this day. sighs.
That said, I DO hope that Nintendo will go back to being more creative with their npc designs though, to this day I still don't understand why they started sertilizing character designs and stayed adamant about that decision since. In my opinion, memorable characters adds so much to a story and even better if it's already a good story.
Anyway, good video and thanks for the CC!
As someone whos first PM game was Sticker Star i really enjoy it. Its definitely older fans shitting on it too much because even as a super fan the only thing i can agree with is sometimes you need something too specific thats not really explained at all.
I get that part of hate but ill never understand anything else to hate about the game. It has character.
Ive also played Super Paper and Origami king so ive grown up on the more split PM games overall. I really do enjoy them all and come back to them. If OG and TTYD fans could just look at the few good things of the newer games maybe the fandoms wouldnt ver so divided. I think me growing up on the split games is why i dont hate Color Splash, i just find it a little lost potential, even if i have never played it personally
I was fine with Origiami King, in fact, I feel like it's better than TTYD (I've had some issues with the game that I do hope the remake resolves)
But I was more frustrated that we got a remake instead of Paper Mario 7. But I feel like if Nintendo wanted to give Paper Mario Fans what they wanted, they'd not only remake their best game yet, but they would have done a special collection to celebrate the first 3 paper mario games all in 1 game. OR, they rebuild Sticker Star and Color Splash since those 2 are easily the games that helped create the whole remaster ttyd trend, and transform them from being the worst games of the Paper Mario franchise into a great one. Taking some of their ideas they had but evolving them in such a way to where it would fit with those who love TTYD.
Also... TTYD would not be as popular and as beloved if SPM had continued the TTYD gameplay style.
I loved super paper Mario when it came out, and because I don’t really like traditional RPG’s it was my favorite. It seems that public opinion has shifted from it being the beginning of the bad paper Mario games to being the last good paper Mario game.
My personal favourite paper mario is super, and i would love a sequel.
But i think every opinion has to have his room and should have the right to expand. Seeing that Nintendo cares about theese games and they are able to hear opinions makes more probable that we will get a 3rd in the style of the 1st 2 games. But i would love to see the possibility of a super paper mario 2 on the future and even the stickers games have a chance.
Either way, this route looks healthy for the series, will play the remake.
I have only played TTYD.
I never had an N64, and only ever got to try the original at my buddy’s house because his parents were the type to get him whatever he wanted.
I did have a Wii (who didn’t), but I also lived in Germany at the time when Super came out, and getting English versions of games was a pain in the ass. Especially for a middle schooler.
By the time Sticker Star came out, and I saw it was only for 3DS, I didn’t really care about Nintendo. Especially because of how different it was from TTYD.
Then Color Splash is only available on WiiU, yet another console I didn’t have. And let’s not forget how nonchalant and uncaring Nintendo was when they announced it.
I do own a switch, but after seeing the fan backlash for Sticker Star and Color Splash, and that DAMN interview, my hope and interest in the series was gone. I still had my GameCube and my copy of TTYD, and the memories I had of playing through it with my brother. He DID get Origami King, and as soon as he finished it, asked if he could borrow the GameCube and TTYD to “cleanse his pallet”
I will say that I’m genuinely upset I never got to play Super, and would ABSOLUTELY LOVE for it to get the TTYD on Switch treatment. And I harbor no ill will towards the literal paper trilogy or its fans. It’s like being mad at Teen Titans Go. It’s not for me
I am super hyped for the TTYD remake tho
super paper mario is a good game, i wish they made another rpg platformer game like it
It's great that this video is made by someone by who loves all paper mario game with the exception of sticker stars, this "classic sonic vs modern sonic" fanbase really needs to get along and stop belittling each other
Also do you know the main reason why I don't like sticker stars personally? Because it ruined the fans' expectations on what fans wants paper mario as series to be like it should stick to the TTYD formula and nothing else
That's a great point, as far as why you don't like Sticker Star! If SS made some key changes such as giving the battle system more time in the oven--and being less like the New Super Mario Bros. of Paper Mario--I'm sure the newer games would be at least a bit more warmly recieved overall. SS did irreparable damage releasing in its final state as the new standard for the series, so of course doubling down (despite greatly improving with Color Splash & TOK imo), created this dissonance within the fandom. I almost didn't buy CS when it first released, but I'm glad I gave it a chance back then because I do think that (while not totally fixing SS's problems), it does a lot right & I wound up loving it for what it is
2:19 best girl of each game, yes
I wouldn’t mind the new paper mario if they just made their own type of platform but you still have that gimmick where you touch an enemy and fight them(like an RPG) without exp for the modern ones which irritates me. Hell I found Super fun and I give intelligent systems credit for trying something new. Also the interviews made me so mad especially when they literally told their fans if you want Mario RPG go play Mario and Luigi which didn’t age well after we heard the tragedy of what happened. Now that the Remake is happening hope it sells well and Nintendo understands why we love the old Paper Mario
now y'all know how sonic fans feel.
I am more confused
this will only work if the next paper mario game is closer to the first 2, cause if its anything like the last 2, people will immediately be up in arms fighting again sadly. the thing about all the hostility that comes from the seperation of the fanbase is that it all stems from the previous style of paper mario's fanbase. i have never seen any fans of the new trilogy go out of there way to talk bad about the games (which truthfully would be funny cause theres very little to point out bad about the original trilogy) but you can go to every corner of youtube and see fans of the old heavily bashing the new.
the analogy is for the broken family is good but all the conflict is almost always brought from one side of the family's fanbase sadly
Lore of Paper Mario's Fandom Explained With a Broken Family Analogy [Redux] momentum 100
Ayo. I am making a paper mario
It should probably be as simple as “these 3 games are good” and “these 3 newer games aren’t so good”.
Can you do another one like this but for Star Fox? StarFox fans and Paper Mario fans have a lot in common. The only difference is StarFox suffers from their father wanting them to have an un necessarily Gimmick that sabotages the game itself.
That's a great idea, I think it could really work and I like that idea of the father putting gimmicks and pressure on his children to succeed/live up to 64...which actually holds them back. I'd have to play more Star Fox games as I don't have a deep understanding of them, but I'm familiar with the franchise on a surface level at least. I've played the original, 64, a bit of the GameCube ones, and Command
@@ThaneGaming definitely play through GC ones again, StarFox Assault is my personal favorite. The original snes one and sf2 are both available on NSO and you could probably find a copy of StarFox Zero for $5 at best
I only like the first two Paper Mario's but whatever
Men like old wine and not the new. You don't put new wine in old bottles less the bottles breaks. You put new wine in new bottles.
I just think the “LOL PAPER LMAO” trilogy is obnoxiously boring.
I'd argue that rather than fragmented into 2 camps or families, the Paper Mario series is fragmented into 4 groups: The First two, Super, The Sticker Star series and Origami King.
I can say this because I love the first two, I like Origami King, I don't like but respect Super and greatly despise the Sticker Star series. I don't think your analogy is wrong however, as Super has more in common with the first two than anyone else, and Origami King inherited most of the issues from the SS series, I just think it can divided even further.
Super is a game I do not enjoy because it has mediocre level design, mediocre combat, terrible design choices (it mocks stupidly long passwords but then it gives you stupidly long passwords twice) and the art style and design for the characters is weak. To be considered Paper Mario 3, in my eyes, it would have to stand alongside 64 and TTYD in the gameplay and arstyle department and it just doesn't. Only outstanding thing in Super imo is the story, everything else is mediocre. But hey, at least it's not Sticker Star nor Color Splash.
Lastly, snow bunnies and Wacka can both be seen in Mario Party 6's snow map. It's a great little cameo/reference if you ask me.
I was one of the haters of Super Paper when it came out. I found it boring and hated the lack of turn based combat. Looking back now, I feel I and possibly many others just hated it because of TTYD. Super is what the natural progression should be, leaning more into the Mario name than the paper gimmick as hard.
I didn't hate Super when it first came out because I loved how weird the world & story was, and the fact that it did bring back a lot of elements from the first two games. I remember being disappointed with the combat, but I always thought "this is a one-off thing. The next game will be a return to form for sure". Couldn't be further from the truth haha
I dont consider Super to be as a progresion, instead as a fun experiment, I personally wasn´t convinced for the gameplay, but the story was enough to make that my favorite. Never seen a game do that before.
@@JoseViktor4099 I only say that in the sense of I would rather enjoy that style over giant paper gimmick bosses. I think the Paper Mario series works best when it's a good balance of Mario and paper.
@@JoseViktor4099 Yes I feel similarly, though I did eventually warm up to the action-platforming gameplay. I never thought the next game would switch things up again, and then double down w/ subsequent entries...it made me appreciate the elements that were retained from the original & TTYD. Super is the wildest story a Mario game has ever told, I love revisting it and giving others who don't know anything about it a synopsis of the plot. They're always very surprised!
@@bobseesall Me too. Im not really against Paper on a visual standpoint, but im indeed against the take they made on the last three games regarding it.
I miss the recipes from the first three! And Merlin. And badges and partners. But the biggest thing I miss are unique races and species. Leave the generic Mario characters to the mainline games. Let the RPGs have their own personalities. Part of the reason SS is so much worse than CS is because the environments were the most bland they could make them and there was no story whatsoever.
You should defo mention how modern fans bully classic fan's too, alot actually, especially origami king fans
All the more reason to treat the games as separate trilogies! It's sad to see the bullying from either side. I can understand where both are coming from, but too often things are taken to the extreme
With nintendo releasing yet another survey to rig the feedback like they did post Super, again now I don't think ita going to get any better anytime soon
I took that survey twice, making sure I checked the "character design is cute and appealing", "battle mechanics", and "story plot" as reasons I'm interested in TTYD's remake. I'm hopeful that enough fans this time have given the proper feedback, especially because this survey isn't tied to Club Nintendo points so there's no reward for just clicking through to be done with it. I know what you're saying though, I don't want the fate of a franchise to be left up to unreliable survey results...
@ThaneGaming I also wouldn't be surprised if the TTYD remake was just a response to "Look how much money we lost to Bug Fables existing."
But I might also be pretty jaded by this point things like story doesn't belong in video games and we aren't allowed to be creative, I have little hope left. Here's hoping those who aren't so jaded, like you, are the ones proven roght.
i acually like sticker star, and i will hold that statement forever
Nothing wrong with that! I do want to replay the game to try and pick out all the things I can find to like about it. Sticker Star was disappointing to me personally, but I know it has great music, some funny moments, and the feeling of peeling up stickers was admittedly very satisfying. What do you like about SS?
@@ThaneGaming well a lot of things, the puzzle solving was satisying trying to figure out what i had to do (ex: the king goomba tower and those giant fans), the visuals were goregeus, like the whole world was handmade by the devs,, each area being like a little diorama (and personally, i wanna give it a try myself remaking those areas irl) the music was all amazing (especally glooper bloopers boss theme) i liked the writing and humor and all the clever paper stuff, and even the combat system, with every attack being one time use, i had to conserve attacks and take out enemys as efficently as i can (kinda like resident evil), and the journey that me and mario went on was good, going to vast places like the yoshi spynx, the haunted house, the minecart and tram ride, the giant desert tower with the baseball stadium at the top hinting twords the boss's weakness, the poison forest with the winding river, the suprise quiz show, the spiders nest, i could go on for another half hour. it felt like a journey to all the corners of the mushroom kingdom. i quite liked a lot of SS for what it was, rather than what it wasnt. what helps was that i never played any other paper mario game beforehand unless you count M&L Paper Jam (Bros.) as a half paper mario game (that one was also my first M&L game) so i dont really have a bias twords the series greats. since then ive played the incredible origami king, and a bit of 64, i want to play color splash but dont have a wiiu, and i have a wii and N64 so i could play the original trilogy, and im looking foreward to getting TTYD one day. (maybe when i get a OLED switch by selling my other two switches), but overall, i really liked sticker star. and all of that is why.
Is this really a complicated concept that needs explanation?
Not really, but it's fun and there are plenty of people who don't think Super belongs with the originals so it requires explaining
I want to preface my comment by saying I really enjoy and love your video, and I think you make some excellent points.
As a member of the "really enjoy storybook, hate the pop-up" group, I will say the reason we are always so upset at the other trilogy and sparking conflict with those whose first games were the pop-up and enjoyed them is because they are two separate things. The fact that Nintendo and Intelligent Systems let the franchise become this much of a contrast is a huge detriment to not only the series, but its fans.
And that's what the real core issue and problem is. The franchise has essentially become two separate entities, as you explained in this video. But I think a lot of the hate and backlash from Storybook fans stems from that core issue. It isn't necessarily an issue with the games, it's an issue with the pop up games being given the title of Paper Mario in the first place. If they wanted to make something completely different, they should have made it completely different, with a different name for a different franchise within Mario.
But now that we do have 2 trilogies, the way companies and franchises work is that a franchise should only have one identity. And if you want to change that identity, then fine, the identity changes with it. And us Storybook fans had a problem with that change, as we loved the Storybook format. So we complain every time a new one comes out. Not saying that's right. To be honest, with me, I've just given up on Storybook Paper Mario ever coming back. Even with TTYD remake coming out, I'm still not so sure.
And if the Storybook format does come back, then the franchise will STILL be divided, because once Nintendo makes that decision to go back, they most likely will stop making pop up book Paper Mario games entirely. Which, that reality I think is why the fanbase is so split and why the hatred for the pop up games exists so prevalently. You could have both, but that would require Nintendo and Intelligent Systems to decide to make both, further creating a split franchise, which would cause confusion for new fans, etc.
It's also why I'm skeptical this new remake is going to change anything for us Storybook fans. I'm going to buy it and love the heck out of this remake, and I know that, but I don't know nor do I think it will create a decent change in the way they make their Paper Mario games. And, if it did create that change, why I'm also not so sure I'd actually enjoy the fact that they made the change, knowing it's going to do the same thing to pop up fans that the pop up games initially did to us Storybook fans.
It is a whole freaking mess, and it's all because they decided to make Sticker Star and games like it for the Paper Mario series in the first place. It didn't have to be Paper Mario. It could have been titled anything else. But they titled it Paper Mario, and the fanbase will be forever split and doomed to fight because of decisions Nintendo and Intelligent Systems have made.
When I played The Origami King I hated it for what it is and I swore to myself to NEVER buy any new modern Paper Mario games even after giving it 2 chances. Regardless of seeing The Thousands Year Door remake I just don't trust the trailer because I feel like they will change something within the game that I don't like.
It's good to be wary, so you don't set yourself up for disappointment again! From what we've seen so far, the remake does appear to be incredibly faithful to the original style, but we won't know until it's actually in our hands of course. I'm equally scared/excited to see what text they'll change for the English localization (we already know Bowser shouts "lunkhead" instead of "airhead", for example). I hope they don't tweak the mechanics too much, or we'll end up with something akin to Majora's Mask 3D. I'm hoping they mostly leave the gameplay alone and just add a few new things, similar to the Mario RPG remake
No.
My biggest complaint with the best Paper Mario game coming to switch is the price tag. Also you can say it’s not purely Miyamoto’s fault but Mario is his child or so he says so you’re not gonna convince me otherwise it isn’t his fault purely.
Its all Doug bowser's fault
@@thewanderingchelmet I mean other then being an overused joke, you’ll have to give more reasons but I’m ready to accept he could be to blame, I’d also blame NoA since it’s located in Washington in America which means trouble in a certain sense but I won’t get into it here.
The reasons fans fight is because Miyamoto and Tanabae pitted fans against each other, so maybe fans can unite by criticizing them?
In my opinion, Paper Mario is and always will be an RPG, no matter what anyone says. So removing experience or any sort of progression that means anything, much like the original trilogy, that defeats the purpose of getting stronger in an RPG.
413th like
I HATE GRINDING......+ point to the new games.
I’ve never seen a fandom, so spoiled, so unlikable and so whiny man why are mario fans like this
The severe drop in creativity killed the series for me. Super paper mario is just generic shapes. And the series became more about long winded jokes that engaging story telling
Tl;Dr
The only good games are the old ones and the newest ones suck majorly.
Noo take it back, I prefer the classic ones but Color Splash & The Origami King are genuinely solid
@ThaneGaming Sorry friend, but I strongly disagree. The new games feel empty with no identity of their own. Tanabe and Miyamoto ruined the series with their stubbornness.