After Andrew Robinson's review I bought Klipsch RP8000 a few years ago. After trying them with different great amplifiers I was going to get rid of these speakers because they really disappointed me. But, luckily, I discovered GR Research upgrade kit and decided to try. As a result I got excellent sounding speakers which I am going to keep forever. It was a lot of fun to work on this project, and I added some my own little improvements while working. So, folks, if you skillful enough, don't hesitate, have fun upgrading your speakers with Danny's kits (if needed, of course). It will reward you with satisfaction and pride.
I bought them too and gave them away to kid working on the house 2 weeks later they sucked big time 😮 I now have bucharts..audiovectors and jbl l82.... and mofi 10 s all with subs....I only have one free room left..😮
@@askara.3671 I've found that Robinson tends to over hype stuff too. Not that his recommendations are bad, but he tends to lead people to think products are much higher-end than they actually are. He let's the price dictate too much instead of straight up performance. Just tell me how a compares to b and let me decide if the price is worth it or not.
Andrew Robinson is moron for TH-cam money with his talking in background old wife or girlfriend. They talk about expensive and cheap crap nicely. Without TH-cam, they were nothing.
I've done the cabinet bracing on mine already and lined with no res, I also covered the back of the horns with Dynamat, and put dynamat on the stamp steel frames. The pair I got had Crites in them already which had some really nice parts, I put in some miflex bypass caps, I will say that doing the cabinets and upgrading the parts quality made a huge difference I am really eager to try this redesigned crossover!
People have no idea how much it would cost to pay consulting services at that level for 3 days! And you not only give it away, but give the IP behind it on these vids! You provide an invaluable service to the audio community. Thanks!
No, I don’t think Danny is actually “giving away” his intellectual property here. I think he’s just like you, and just like me. He has knowledge, he has skills. And he uses them to leverage himself into a higher tax bracket. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Actually, the Forte II has better specs/frequency response than the Forte IV… goes lower in bass and handles more power… so THAT Forte II would be a good one to do next!😂👍 I think Danny has now done an original Forte (here) and a Forte III for his buddy that was in the video and they rocked out to them for hours!🤘😎🍿🇺🇸 I’ll volunteer one of my 3 sets of Forte II’s (Black oak, walnut, and light oak) for the good of audiophile-kind!!😂 What would be really cool for Danny to do is have his cabinet maker buddies (somewhere local to him) build an entirely new set of cabinets for them out of 1” thick MDF, have them internally braced throughout, modify the 15” passive radiator with the recommended small weight on the dust cover (enhances/deepens bass), change the tweeters and midranges horn lengths so their magnets will be perfectly even with each other AND with the 12” woofers as well. There’s a guy online who makes Altec Lansing (Model 32?) horns… by 3-D printing, I think?? He designs them to be low resonance and smooth sounding. Maybe Danny could do a joint video with him?? This would probably attract more subscribers for both he and Danny, plus it would make both of them a little extra money… and Danny could use higher-end cone materials in the drivers of the horns, like aluminum, titanium or even beryllium instead of the factory, cheap phenolic diaphragm. This would also mean that it would raise its frequency response to well over 20,000 hertz! And finally, Danny would do his “magic” and totally redesign the crossover, maybe even outside of the box?? This way, he could use whatever size caps/air core inductors/ resistors/that would sound the best. I have a sneaky suspicion that this upgrade would sell like hotcakes, bacon, and eggs!
@@tigerstripeeyes9871forte II is Nowhere NEAR the forte IV. The IV has actual modern horn technology and walks all over it. Not even in the same league. Anyone who likes old klipsch needs to do themselves a favor and listen to the forte IVs or Cornwall IVs and reset their idea of a good horn speaker.
I’m a klipsch guy among a few other brands. There is always room for upgrades and improvements. Go spend 10grand on speakers and I’m almost positive that in most brands there is room for improvements.
These were the first really good speaker I owned back in the 80’s. No they didn’t image. But they had the cleanest deep bass of any speaker Ive ever owned and I loved them.
Time Alignment and phase coherency. Very important and most people have no idea what you’re talking about. Very difficult to do. One of the reasons earphones sound so good.
He's wrong on this. You don't go see a jazz quartet and have all the musicians lined up on same plane. It's sound more natural as designed, and who is Danny to say otherwise. That's why Magnepans sound so ridiculously killer, because we don't hear music in that manner, and it really gets our attention. Danny's an opportunist, that's all. Klipsch are fine as designed.
@@davewin1792 Jazz quartet isn't made up of 4 speakers, and they are for sure isn't playing out of a single signal source. This is why time alignment is important. Klipsch is cheaply designed and cheaply made, I know, because I have a pair wasting space in my home. My bodge-repaired McIntosh SL-6 just crushed it like nothing. My Totem One bookshelf speakers have more bass than a gigantic Klipsch Tangent 500.
@@davewin1792Most instruments are covered by more than one driver. It's not like just a midrange plays a clarinet. That means you have different frequencies arriving at different times from the same instrument. This is not natural in a live acoustical setting. It causes phase shifts, cancelations or accentuations of some frequencies. Someone might find the sound pleasing but it certainly isn't accurate nor true to the original performance.
@@davewin1792 irrespective of Danny's role here, Klipsch speakers are very polarizing...either you love them or you hate them; they have a unique sound that I personally don't prefer, but just as many people hate them as there are people that love them..does that make them good or bad? certainly not, just another speaker choice. That said, GR modifications are also based on preferences.
pretty impressive video and work performed to try to do something with these speakers. I never cared for these when I had heard them but did not know why. Now I do.
Andrew Robinson by no mean is an Audiophile but rather a critic and evaluator of hifi products. I do watch some his reviews though but GR research is doing a good service to audio enthusiasts and I really appreciate the work that Danny does and share the information that matters. Go Danny Lots of appreciation. And love from Paris.
If you set the woofer back in a shallow, short bass horn (like an Altec VOT), you could align the mid and woofer better, but then you are modding the cabs: but...as long as no interference from the passive device in the back, I'd just start from scratch with a new build, braced like heck, no-rez on outside of horn, and upgraded crossover parts. I think you could do one and do A/B comparison, and let Danny do a vid on that. May be waaay funnn!!!
I'm going to be in the market for new speakers but I'm not going to make a move until Danny unveils the third in line with the Brute and Bully. I think he was thinking of calling them "The Beast". I love the look and design of the other two in the series.
I bought Forte 2s a few years ago to see what upgrades would sound like. I used your no rez (obvious improvement if you have pretty good ears), the commonly used Titanium tweeter (another obvious improvement), and Bob Crites replacement crossovers (same design, just new parts). Overall, it sounded just ok, but each of these 3 items made an audible improvement and it was a fun project. I wish I could hear your upgrade and I suspect it will be significantly better. The Klipsch "sound" is fun with a warm front end.
I have seen damping material put on the outside of the horn as that will resonate. And that mid horn is big so it will color the music. I owned the chorus II and everything he said is so true.
Could you explain why you want to align the voice coils rather than the face of the driver where the it meets the air? Logically it makes sense that sound starts propagating through the air from the face of the driver.
. Don't know but the voice coil is the spot where waves begin & it's in free air. I think cones & horns shape the air-wave after the "voice" coil initiated it. What is prior to the face is not in a vacuum. It's just conjecture though. Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
@@TriAmpMyFi Even if the waves start at the coil they will travel through the cone material at a much faster speed than in air because it's a somewhat rigid solid rather than a gas.
The way to do the time arrival difference is to use different acoustic roll offs in high vs. Lowpass. So 2:nd order roll off leads 4:th order roll off by about 180 deg. Depending on the frequency that is a delay of half the wavelength 1/(4pi*f) and multiply with the speed of sound to get it in meters.
The impulse response plot clearly shows that the time delay between drivers is within a 1 ms window, no 2 to 3 ms. Which, of course, corresponds to the speed of sound in air at 20°C, in which sound travels a distance of 34.3 cm in 1 ms. The depth of the Klipsch Forte 1 is 30.5 cm.
One of my friends is patiently waiting for you to upgrade the Forte IV. We live in FL and sending one to you would be the same as buying a used Wilson Sasha
I notice that new 2-way Klipsch speaker coming out with the exposed horn tweeter on top I think has adjustable Horn positioning. I think its on a rail or something so you can advance it forward for better time alignment. I wonder if that is the answer to their problems.
Oh boy.....I can't wait to see this shared on the Klipsch FB groups. The wailing and fury will be impressive. For many in those groups you may as well denigrate their mothers than point out everything is built to a price point. It truly is a religion for a lot of them and PWK never made a mistake or compromise and neither do the engineers working there now. Oh well.
@@dabbidaa1547 I own 12 pairs of speakers including Cornwalls and RP51s. I like my Klipsch speakers but I don't labor under the delusion they weren't built to a price point and compromises were required. Acting like my Cornwalls are built like "price no object" D'Angostino amps or such would just make me a delusional fool. There are far too many of those already in the various brand groups.
Ehh, there's religious nuts in every hobby. It' a BS argument. it's a matter of what your tastes and priorities are. It's like car people arguing if a Ferrari or a Rolls is a better car. Depends, what do you want from it? For me, dynamics are a higher priority than imaging and 3d. If a comfortable, smooth ride is important.. get a non horn speaker with soft dome tweeter and enjoy your caviar and Grey Pupon. If you want acceleration and cornering, get the sports car but the potholes are gonna hit harder and you might spill your wine.
Have a pair of Forte IIs and they have upgraded crossovers and tweeters. Connected to my Marantz 2285b they sound amazing with an AR XA turntable spinning the tunes. These Fortes replaced a pair of Wharfdales and there is no comparison in the sound quality. Won’t be changing from the Fortes🎵🎶
@@tracyleavitt-ur1if I’m curious how the A/B test comes out. The Forte IIs are so efficient that the sound quality was so much better. Pick an album/track that you are very familiar with and compare. Let us know how it turns out 👍👍
I have a question about amplifier output at very high ohm loads. If a solid state amp puts out 200 wpc rms into 4 ohms and 150 wpc into 8 ohms, what will happen to its output at 100+ ohms?
I have an idea to use my Oris 150 horns with four of Danny's open baffle subs, two drivers above and two drivers below each Oris horn. That way I can slide the horns back until they are time aligned with the woofers. I just don't know if the servo amps will be able to match the 6 db / octave roll off below 150Hz that the Oris horns have. I'd wire four 16 ohm woofer drivers in parallel per side to the servo amps.
I think the Crites upgrades are a parts only upgrade. So a value for value swap. If that is the case then clarity and detail levels are improved, but all else is still the same.
Klipsch was and is all about low distortion (all forms of distortion, not just THD), which you would know if you'd have the attention span and interest to actually read something. Frequency response, phase etc. were all considered secondary by PWK, and for a good reason, which you would also know if you'd actually read any of his research.
You can make the life of the amplifier much easier if you put a 22 ohm resistor in series with an 8 uF capacitor directly across the terminals. It will dampen impedance fluctuations in the treble area strongly. And it doesn't even have to be expensive components!
Thanks Danny for explaining the horn problem that speakers face with time arrival. Very well done. QUESTION: What are the speakers you are pointing to in the background that you said has three dimensional sound at 14:14 in the video
I bought a pairs of these a few years ago with one cabinet mostly destoyed. I built new boxes out of double wall 3/4 MDF with radius corners, braced and lined with No Rez an upgraded the parts in the crossover as best I could. Some of forums say to line the back of the horns with Dynamat. Anxious to give your crossover a try. Yes, heads will explode in the Klipsch Forum
I think the same way I would love to be there to see the difference it makes I guess I've never heard super high-end speakers to really understand the difference I understand what he's talking about then improvements on parts.
Wow Danny, looks like you can't wait to get up and go as clip ends ... almost as if you want to put distance between yourself and the Klipsch asap! :-)
Danny…What if the speakers were lying horizontally & the horns were mounted above the woofer, on top of the cabinet with the voice coils aligned…I love the dynamics and looks of horns especially outside the cabinet & without grills…FYI Bought my forte 1’s in 85 new…
The length of the horn lens is wrong if you did that..its complex. Horns were necessary when amps were only 50 watts..now power is no problem.. horns have their place in far field use. (Big arenas) .. not in small -medium rooms..
Hi Danny. Different topic but i would love to see a video on your thoughts of the Bowers and Wilkins crossovers that they have for all of the speakers on their website. You can clearly see all of the components that they use so you could easily spot the good the bad and the cheesy.
In horn systems don’t the acoustic centers shift, depending on the frequency being reproduced higher frequencies being more sensitive due to the compression of the horn as I understand it, the acoustic Center can lie somewhere along the path of the horn rather than at the voice coil and when testing phase alignment you really can only have perfect alignmentat a predetermined point or several predetermined points typically the crossover frequency
Room correction isn't relevant to the speakers response. It is also a variable. It is basically just EQ and EQ will not fix the issue that we see with these speakers.
Would you like some bagels with that schmear? There's no way to make the mid and treble horns phase coherent without moving the tweeter nearly a foot backward.
I’ve been conversing with the owner of Shin Jitsu audio, who makes a small cabinet with a full range driver crossing over to a horn stuck on top of the cabinet to handle the high frequencies. He claims that the opening of the horn should be aligned with the front baffle, even though the horn is probably four or 5 inches deep, which goes against what you just said, what’s the deal Danny love that video I’ve learned so much from you
I'm curious if that huge Klipsch Jubilee speaker with it's two-way design and active crossover measures better in the time domain with a somewhat coherent blending of drivers. That seems to be the "undiscovered country" for Klipsch designs.
I'm starting to worry if there's a Santa Claus. Sometimes ignorance IS bliss. I suspect my beloved stereo speakers from France have cheesy parts, ferrous materials, and were built to a price point, even though they sold at a premium one. Can I get a No Rez squeeze ball?
This was almost as good as it got back in the day. Pretty impressive if you ask me considering they probably did not use digital equipment to measure with (no digital means no memory, means no pretty printout to analyze). Wrapping the horns in rope putty helps horns a lot. One of my beefs with Klipsch has always been the aluminum horns. Plastic horns sound much better imo.
I mean , okay Danny, I’m sure your analysis and data are close if not right on. These were gen 1 Forte’s manufactured in what, 1986? 1987? The present day Forte IV and crossover network is WAY more complex, and it is now 33 years later. If you mean to try and compare a Forte IV to, lets just say, the Bully, with modern components, moderm knowledge and design, then I think you should do that. The price points are similar. The size and look are similar. I would challenge you to take my Forte IV, optimize the existing network if necessary, and put them head to head both in terms of analysis AND in terms of how they sound in real life. I like your videos. I like your approach. Sometimes it just kind of feels like you’re bashing yesterday’s knowledge with present-day understanding and tools, which have improved over time.
I don’t think this is the case. He has talked about and upgraded many new speakers as well as old. He even said this speaker measures better than some of the newer ones.
I've designed an upgrade for the Forte 3 and the Forte 4 as well. There has been little to no improvement in them over the years. They still suffer from the same issues. The Bully is in a completely difference class and league. That isn't even a comparisons in any way.
So all the reviewers who say the IV was an improvement over the III were just imagining it? ("There has been little to no improvement in them over the years"). I don't think any reviewer's word should be taken for gospel but I don't think Ken Micallef's Stereophile review saying "[vs. the III] Forte IV is more coherent, sweeter, smoother, and more refined, with a better-defined top end, a warmer midrange, and the same trademark dynamics and low-end weight as the previous Forte version. " is complete BS, either.
Electronic frequency filtering has been around for over 100 years and the physics has been fully understood and formalised for more than 70, about 30 years before the manufacture of the first Fortes. It hasn't improved because the audio buying public seem perfectly content to tolerate mediocre sound and continue spending stupid money on badly designed and equipped product.
@@sudd3660 In-cabinet budget DSP & power solutions do that. Usually met in active home studio monitors. You get circa 120dB SNR spec in modern external processors and Hypex Class-D power modules.
@@sudd3660 True for the internal electronics of enough active studio monitors. Especially when in the affordable category. On the other hand, higher grade external processor units and Hypex Class-D power modules are very silent.
than you probably heard the bad ones ? I use DSP based Monitors from Neumann and theyre crystal clear without any hiss. And theyre pinpoint acourate. Even with external / internal DSP Correction (miniDSP) no hiss at all, same with Genelec's or Actives with Hypex Modules.... Never had any (hearble) Hiss Problems with Actives, and i listen over 10 yrs now only with Active Systems
I buy the explanation, unfortunately I own two pair of Forte II and unless I get lucky in the lottery they're staying. One point I'd offer is that my listening space is small and crowded with stuff perhaps that matters. So I'll look for a GR vid on the Forte II, see if it's been done.
My experience is quite the opposite. In reality there is no way a Klipsch speaker can reach the layers of transparency and imaging that I am accustom to.
Accurately measuring lower than that requires moving the mic further away. Moving the mic further away makes it hard to get a clear measurement without room reflections. I can do a nearfield of the lows and splice it in like Stereophile does, but that is not very accurate either and is also easily manipulated.
The mixture of design compromises Paul Klipsch chose for this design was good enough for it to be produced for forty years with only incremental upgrades. 14:09 Ask yourself honestly if you want a layered 3D soundstage or something fun to listen to
I have recently got a pair of Klipsch Tangent 500 with a woofer damaged. (Heresy II with bigger box + passive radiator... as if the bigger box isn't a gigantic passive radiator as well)... The crossover looked identical to what you have on your desk there, the box wall are so so thin, absolutely no bracing, the 4 walls of the box are passive radiators. Oh yeah, they did throw in (Yes just randomly tossed in) two sheets of open cell foam for packing computer hard drives in there. This thing... funny enough, is the biggest speaker by sheer volume in my home... By my seat of the pants feel, it have as much bass as some bookshelf speakers, maybe less. There's no depth in the bass, but the mid and high plays plenty loud. Yeah, I'm getting rid of this pair of speakers. Since these old fashioned Klipsch still commands a good resale price in the second hand market for some reason. It is just a much better deal to get rid of them and get something better. Maybe I'll use the money to get that HPM-100 upgrade kit that I've always wanted to get. (I was jumping up and down happy when I saw Danny decided to tackle HPM-100...)
I've owned 2 pairs of Forte's and a pair of Heresy's. They are just okay. And I've tried them with different amplifiers. Tubes of different sorts and solid state, class A, Class AB and class D. To me they are kinda like DJ speakers in a woodgrain box. They use inexpensive pro type drivers. For their size they are bass shy. There is a trade-off for that super high sensitivity. Particularly in a woofer. High sensitivity woofers are generally lightweight cones with a higher free air resonance making them unsuitable for deep bass extension. There is no free lunch.Yes they have bass but given the size of the woofer and cabinet it really isn't that impressive. Unless you are throwing a house party, one could get better sound by using a less efficient speaker with a better frequency response, better bass extension, better parts, and better crossover and driver integration.
Klipsch overprices their speakers like crazy. Building them out of plywood and 2x4’s, with stamped steel woofer baskets and paper woofers is not high end to me.
@@MrBonger88 I do too! I was skeptical at first since I've always owned Klipsch and like to play my music loud but WOW what an upgrade. I'm hoping to get the 3A's someday🤞
@@mrsmokalotapotamus6530 realistically, the 3’s are probably what I’ll end up buying as they are within my budget but one can’t help dreaming about the Kento’s (former 5) and even the 7’s
I agree, I’m just getting into audio. So I went to my friend who talked me into the GREAT Klipsch. haha I bought the 504C center channel, RP8000F towers, and the RP600Ms then I found Danny and decided to try an upgrade on one, the 504C, and WOW what a difference. So now I am upgrading all of them. I will never buy or recommend a klipsch to anyone, I could have spent the money and bought Danny’s speakers and been done Thank you Danny I appreciate all your hard work and love your video’s. I learn something every time you put one out and kick myself for not seeing you sooner.
@@troymcnett3019 I was introduced to Klipsch as a child by my fathers friend across our street. He brought home a pair of Chorus 2's and blew my mind. Spent time at the local hifi shop once I could drive and bought myself a set of CF 4's for my first apartment. Family all owned Klipsch and I always thought they were great speakers. Life happened and I got away from having a system but my little brother went on to sell audio at the very same hifi shop I would frequent. He also had a big set of Klipsch....at first. He soon realized just how bad Klipsch sound. I always figured he was being a snob since he now had B&W speakers and nice gear. Recently I had a set of KG 3.2s with Crites tweeters and crossovers and was very happy. My brother text me saying his friend had a set of Vandersteen b1s for sale and I should by them as they are better than any Klipsch. I had my doubts and figured they wouldn't make me happy since I like to play it loud. My brother was right and it isn't close at all. I also recently found Dannys videos and while I could tell my CF4s were made cheap I am surprised that every Klipsch speaker is made cheap as possible. I too will never again recommend Klipsch to anyone. My eyes have been opened ...
That is a little like asking what I charge to fix a car that I haven't seen and I don't know what is wrong with it. You know, we measure, test and evaluate them for free. Then we can give you some ideas....
@@dannyrichie9743 interesting. I don’t understand, but that’s ok. Maybe you’re asking for more information. I have a pair of Realistic Mach Ones. You’ve never done a pair before, and they’re a very popular speaker. I thought perhaps you’d take them to use to create a kit, and there would be a flat fee or something like that. So, now that I’ve given you a little more info, is there a range of prices that it might end up costing? Something someone else said somewhere implied to me that you do these upgrades at low to no cost so that you have new products. I probably misunderstood.
@@cpe1704tks If we design an upgrade for a commonly mass produced speaker then I don't charge a fee for the design work. I make up my time on it by selling the same upgrade to many others.
@brittania100 - Oh it pains my heart to read your comment using the past tense of love, as in no longer have 😭 The first version (before the wave aperture horns) were my introduction to Speakerlab, and have collected all but the wave aperture mid-range horns to accompany my WA tweeters, then probably off to Danny for X-O expertise, God bless him! 👊🤠👍
@@JAFO. I don’t recall exactly why I sold the super 7’s & my Dynaco PAT 5 & 120 so many decades ago but I do recall they spent a few years in a bar in Granada Hills, “The Sugar Sweet” & later ended up at a local College probably Pierce College..the dynamics were the reason I’ve stuck with horns with the exception of Dahlquist dq10’s.. Currently have a JBL SA600 & a pair of dynakit mark 111”s all brought up to factory specs by none other than Bob Hovland…
Whoa boy here we go. Lol. Full disclosure. I like Klipsch. I own RF7IIIs, RP 600s, and some 90s models for surrounds/heights. Let it fly Danny. I can take it😊
I have had a horn speaker , wasza thivanlabs eros 9 anniversary , Was not for the shouting treble it had be the perfect speaker , it was even easy to ear that the tweeter had potential , The only " crossover" was a cheap capacitor between woofer and tweeter, suprising enough the rest of the response was nit on perfect ...apart from.the shouting tweeter , At the time i tought even to change the capacitor for an amp-ohm one ( they are known to sound a bit on the warm side ) but at the end i was afraid of a costly mistake ( those capacitors are expensive) Now, years on , i regret not having keep them and send them to gr research
That speaker had a sismic bass capacity , control to it , life , and was dynamic and very , very very fast in transient response .....but that shouting ........uuuufff
Every speaker ever made pretty much sucks and sound terrible.......but that's OK, lucky for you I'm here and I make and sell kits to fix ALL of them. What a richard.
After Andrew Robinson's review I bought Klipsch RP8000 a few years ago. After trying them with different great amplifiers I was going to get rid of these speakers because they really disappointed me. But, luckily, I discovered GR Research upgrade kit and decided to try. As a result I got excellent sounding speakers which I am going to keep forever. It was a lot of fun to work on this project, and I added some my own little improvements while working. So, folks, if you skillful enough, don't hesitate, have fun upgrading your speakers with Danny's kits (if needed, of course). It will reward you with satisfaction and pride.
I bought them too and gave them away to kid working on the house 2 weeks later they sucked big time 😮 I now have bucharts..audiovectors and jbl l82.... and mofi 10 s all with subs....I only have one free room left..😮
This is what it’s all about!
I had to put a DNR order on Robininson's channel. 😅
@@askara.3671 I've found that Robinson tends to over hype stuff too. Not that his recommendations are bad, but he tends to lead people to think products are much higher-end than they actually are. He let's the price dictate too much instead of straight up performance. Just tell me how a compares to b and let me decide if the price is worth it or not.
Andrew Robinson is moron for TH-cam money with his talking in background old wife or girlfriend. They talk about expensive and cheap crap nicely. Without TH-cam, they were nothing.
I've done the cabinet bracing on mine already and lined with no res, I also covered the back of the horns with Dynamat, and put dynamat on the stamp steel frames. The pair I got had Crites in them already which had some really nice parts, I put in some miflex bypass caps, I will say that doing the cabinets and upgrading the parts quality made a huge difference I am really eager to try this redesigned crossover!
People have no idea how much it would cost to pay consulting services at that level for 3 days! And you not only give it away, but give the IP behind it on these vids! You provide an invaluable service to the audio community. Thanks!
No, I don’t think Danny is actually “giving away” his intellectual property here. I think he’s just like you, and just like me. He has knowledge, he has skills. And he uses them to leverage himself into a higher tax bracket. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
@@peterdonovan4669he could easily charge for his service, but he does not. I think that’s pretty generous
It would be great to see how much potential the Forte IV has. Still very interesting to watch!
Actually, the Forte II has better specs/frequency response than the Forte IV… goes lower in bass and handles more power… so THAT Forte II would be a good one to do next!😂👍
I think Danny has now done an original Forte (here) and a Forte III for his buddy that was in the video and they rocked out to them for hours!🤘😎🍿🇺🇸
I’ll volunteer one of my 3 sets of Forte II’s (Black oak, walnut, and light oak) for the good of audiophile-kind!!😂
What would be really cool for Danny to do is have his cabinet maker buddies (somewhere local to him) build an entirely new set of cabinets for them out of 1” thick MDF, have them internally braced throughout, modify the 15” passive radiator with the recommended small weight on the dust cover (enhances/deepens bass), change the tweeters and midranges horn lengths so their magnets will be perfectly even with each other AND with the 12” woofers as well. There’s a guy online who makes Altec Lansing (Model 32?) horns… by 3-D printing, I think?? He designs them to be low resonance and smooth sounding. Maybe Danny could do a joint video with him?? This would probably attract more subscribers for both he and Danny, plus it would make both of them a little extra money… and Danny could use higher-end cone materials in the drivers of the horns, like aluminum, titanium or even beryllium instead of the factory, cheap phenolic diaphragm. This would also mean that it would raise its frequency response to well over 20,000 hertz!
And finally, Danny would do his “magic” and totally redesign the crossover, maybe even outside of the box?? This way, he could use whatever size caps/air core inductors/ resistors/that would sound the best.
I have a sneaky suspicion that this upgrade would sell like hotcakes, bacon, and eggs!
@@tigerstripeeyes9871forte II is Nowhere NEAR the forte IV. The IV has actual modern horn technology and walks all over it. Not even in the same league. Anyone who likes old klipsch needs to do themselves a favor and listen to the forte IVs or Cornwall IVs and reset their idea of a good horn speaker.
I’m a klipsch guy among a few other brands. There is always room for upgrades and improvements. Go spend 10grand on speakers and I’m almost positive that in most brands there is room for improvements.
These were the first really good speaker I owned back in the 80’s.
No they didn’t image. But they had the cleanest deep bass of any speaker Ive ever owned and I loved them.
I got them to image pretty well.
JBL studio series has the woofers set deeper in the baffle aligning the voice coils and that's why I think they sound so good!
I had a pair of Forte 2 that I loved back in the day. They could rock!
Big Adcom 555 amp handled them well
Time Alignment and phase coherency. Very important and most people have no idea what you’re talking about. Very difficult to do. One of the reasons earphones sound so good.
He's wrong on this. You don't go see a jazz quartet and have all the musicians lined up on same plane. It's sound more natural as designed, and who is Danny to say otherwise. That's why Magnepans sound so ridiculously killer, because we don't hear music in that manner, and it really gets our attention. Danny's an opportunist, that's all. Klipsch are fine as designed.
@@davewin1792 Jazz quartet isn't made up of 4 speakers, and they are for sure isn't playing out of a single signal source. This is why time alignment is important.
Klipsch is cheaply designed and cheaply made, I know, because I have a pair wasting space in my home. My bodge-repaired McIntosh SL-6 just crushed it like nothing. My Totem One bookshelf speakers have more bass than a gigantic Klipsch Tangent 500.
@@maniacaudiophile Tannoy dual concentric is not physically time aligned.
@@davewin1792Most instruments are covered by more than one driver. It's not like just a midrange plays a clarinet. That means you have different frequencies arriving at different times from the same instrument. This is not natural in a live acoustical setting. It causes phase shifts, cancelations or accentuations of some frequencies. Someone might find the sound pleasing but it certainly isn't accurate nor true to the original performance.
@@davewin1792 irrespective of Danny's role here, Klipsch speakers are very polarizing...either you love them or you hate them; they have a unique sound that I personally don't prefer, but just as many people hate them as there are people that love them..does that make them good or bad? certainly not, just another speaker choice. That said, GR modifications are also based on preferences.
pretty impressive video and work performed to try to do something with these speakers. I never cared for these when I had heard them but did not know why. Now I do.
Andrew Robinson by no mean is an Audiophile but rather a critic and evaluator of hifi products. I do watch some his reviews though but GR research is doing a good service to audio enthusiasts and I really appreciate the work that Danny does and share the information that matters. Go Danny
Lots of appreciation. And love from Paris.
Robinson is a shill.
I’ve always wanted to make a design with the horn sitting on top and pushed forward so it’s cantilevered out over the woofer, aligning them.
Me Too!! -With the speaker lying horizontally so the horns would be closer to the woofer…
If you set the woofer back in a shallow, short bass horn (like an Altec VOT), you could align the mid and woofer better, but then you are modding the cabs: but...as long as no interference from the passive device in the back, I'd just start from scratch with a new build, braced like heck, no-rez on outside of horn, and upgraded crossover parts. I think you could do one and do A/B comparison, and let Danny do a vid on that. May be waaay funnn!!!
I'm going to be in the market for new speakers but I'm not going to make a move until Danny unveils the third in line with the Brute and Bully. I think he was thinking of calling them "The Beast". I love the look and design of the other two in the series.
16:15 one of the few horn loaded speakers that was time alined was the Altec Lansing A7 voice of the theater, I had a pair once
Oh man I have been waiting for this one, take my money just take it right now!!
I've got an old pair of Quarters, very similar to this. It has no refinement but for rock they're a lot of fun.
Quartet's are basically a Heresy in a taller cabinet... yes, fun !
I bought Forte 2s a few years ago to see what upgrades would sound like. I used your no rez (obvious improvement if you have pretty good ears), the commonly used Titanium tweeter (another obvious improvement), and Bob Crites replacement crossovers (same design, just new parts). Overall, it sounded just ok, but each of these 3 items made an audible improvement and it was a fun project. I wish I could hear your upgrade and I suspect it will be significantly better. The Klipsch "sound" is fun with a warm front end.
Of the Klipsch speakers I have heard, the Forte 1 was one of the better sounding. A roommate had a pair that I listened to for a year.
Can you put clay on the back side of the horn for the ringing?
I have seen damping material put on the outside of the horn as that will resonate. And that mid horn is big so it will color the music. I owned the chorus II and everything he said is so true.
Could you explain why you want to align the voice coils rather than the face of the driver where the it meets the air? Logically it makes sense that sound starts propagating through the air from the face of the driver.
. Don't know but the voice coil is the spot where waves begin & it's in free air. I think cones & horns shape the air-wave after the "voice" coil initiated it. What is prior to the face is not in a vacuum. It's just conjecture though.
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
@@TriAmpMyFi Even if the waves start at the coil they will travel through the cone material at a much faster speed than in air because it's a somewhat rigid solid rather than a gas.
The way to do the time arrival difference is to use different acoustic roll offs in high vs. Lowpass. So 2:nd order roll off leads 4:th order roll off by about 180 deg. Depending on the frequency that is a delay of half the wavelength 1/(4pi*f) and multiply with the speed of sound to get it in meters.
The impulse response plot clearly shows that the time delay between drivers is within a 1 ms window, no 2 to 3 ms.
Which, of course, corresponds to the speed of sound in air at 20°C, in which sound travels a distance of 34.3 cm in 1 ms.
The depth of the Klipsch Forte 1 is 30.5 cm.
OK, nice math, but what amount of time delay is audible? Should I care about 1ms. delay between drivers?
It would be nice to get a sound demo of the finished speakers
Man, you cleaned that thing up quite a bit Danny, the owner is going to be much happier, especially if they brace those big ole resonating cabinets.
Can you touch on the pros and cons on using transformers in the crossover, I think they are called autoformers in Klipsch
One of my friends is patiently waiting for you to upgrade the Forte IV. We live in FL and sending one to you would be the same as buying a used Wilson Sasha
We actually already designed an upgrade for the Forte 4. I guy brought in a Forte 3 that he upgraded the drivers to the drivers of the model 4.
@@dannyrichie9743Danny are you selling it/or when will it be available? I only see the I and IV on your site. Thanks.
@@dtcampbe Just give us a call to order it. We just have not put it on the site yet.
I have 2 pair of Fotré II's, stacked D'Appolito style... I'm happy !!!
Wow cool! I have a pair of old ProAc studio 1 from like 1980 that could use some love
Cruel, but fair
Nailed my head to the floor - he did!
To me the Forte’s sound the most balanced speaker in the Heritage line, at least with the older Heritage speakers
Definitely. A good fun speaker period.
Agreed. They are great speakers. Fun is the right term.
I notice that new 2-way Klipsch speaker coming out with the exposed horn tweeter on top I think has adjustable Horn positioning. I think its on a rail or something so you can advance it forward for better time alignment. I wonder if that is the answer to their problems.
a friend owns a pair of these and I have to say they sound wonderful! Nice amplifier and turntable.
But how do they measure? Lol
Oh boy.....I can't wait to see this shared on the Klipsch FB groups. The wailing and fury will be impressive. For many in those groups you may as well denigrate their mothers than point out everything is built to a price point. It truly is a religion for a lot of them and PWK never made a mistake or compromise and neither do the engineers working there now. Oh well.
Reddit is really bad with the Klipsch cult weirdos also.
How do you like your priest here?
@@dabbidaa1547 I like him a lot. Are you a butthurt about your Klipsch?
@@dabbidaa1547 I own 12 pairs of speakers including Cornwalls and RP51s. I like my Klipsch speakers but I don't labor under the delusion they weren't built to a price point and compromises were required. Acting like my Cornwalls are built like "price no object" D'Angostino amps or such would just make me a delusional fool. There are far too many of those already in the various brand groups.
Ehh, there's religious nuts in every hobby. It' a BS argument. it's a matter of what your tastes and priorities are. It's like car people arguing if a Ferrari or a Rolls is a better car. Depends, what do you want from it? For me, dynamics are a higher priority than imaging and 3d. If a comfortable, smooth ride is important.. get a non horn speaker with soft dome tweeter and enjoy your caviar and Grey Pupon. If you want acceleration and cornering, get the sports car but the potholes are gonna hit harder and you might spill your wine.
Have a pair of Forte IIs and they have upgraded crossovers and tweeters.
Connected to my Marantz 2285b they sound amazing with an AR XA turntable spinning the tunes.
These Fortes replaced a pair of Wharfdales and there is no comparison in the sound quality. Won’t be changing from the Fortes🎵🎶
That’s good to know. I’m trying to get my neighbor to bring over his littons to compare with my forte’s.
@@tracyleavitt-ur1if I’m curious how the A/B test comes out. The Forte IIs are so efficient that the sound quality was so much better. Pick an album/track that you are very familiar with and compare. Let us know how it turns out 👍👍
I have a question about amplifier output at very high ohm loads. If a solid state amp puts out 200 wpc rms into 4 ohms and 150 wpc into 8 ohms, what will happen to its output at 100+ ohms?
I have an idea to use my Oris 150 horns with four of Danny's open baffle subs, two drivers above and two drivers below each Oris horn. That way I can slide the horns back until they are time aligned with the woofers. I just don't know if the servo amps will be able to match the 6 db / octave roll off below 150Hz that the Oris horns have. I'd wire four 16 ohm woofer drivers in parallel per side to the servo amps.
Can you data analyze the various Crites upgrade parts?
I think the Crites upgrades are a parts only upgrade. So a value for value swap. If that is the case then clarity and detail levels are improved, but all else is still the same.
Would like to see you upgrade a klipsch KG4.
Well, Klipsch wasn't focused on being too precise, but, being loud.
LOUD.
'DISTURBING THE PEACE' LOUD.
But a bit of upgrading couldn't hurt 😅
Klipsch was and is all about low distortion (all forms of distortion, not just THD), which you would know if you'd have the attention span and interest to actually read something. Frequency response, phase etc. were all considered secondary by PWK, and for a good reason, which you would also know if you'd actually read any of his research.
From what I’ve read, venue/performance sales were the basis for some designs.
I have a set of hearsey 1's. I consider them a outdoor/party speaker. Super fun but certainly not for critical listening.
Any consideration of reversing the polarity of the midrange horn so it will be possibly in phase 1.5 wavelengths? I know that's sacrilege....
What's the speaker he points at that creates a holographic sound 🔊
You can make the life of the amplifier much easier if you put a 22 ohm resistor in series with an 8 uF capacitor directly across the terminals.
It will dampen impedance fluctuations in the treble area strongly.
And it doesn't even have to be expensive components!
14:00 a master in this matter was the Dahlquist DQ10 as it was voice coil time alined
Stereo Reviews original review of the Forte, the reviewer said it was his favorite speaker.
I don't remember Julian Hirsch giving a 'bad' review to anything lol...
@@steven8417 And all amplifiers sound the same.
How does the Volti speakers compare to the Klipsch Danny? Being they are basically an improvement over Klipsch supposedly….
Thanks Danny for explaining the horn problem that speakers face with time arrival. Very well done. QUESTION: What are the speakers you are pointing to in the background that you said has three dimensional sound at 14:14 in the video
Those things are super special. I will shoot a video on them soon.
As much as these cost, all that bracing and dampening should have been done. Definitely paying for the name.
I bought a pairs of these a few years ago with one cabinet mostly destoyed. I built new boxes out of double wall 3/4 MDF with radius corners, braced and lined with No Rez an upgraded the parts in the crossover as best I could. Some of forums say to line the back of the horns with Dynamat. Anxious to give your crossover a try. Yes, heads will explode in the Klipsch Forum
Would love to hear the before and after
I think the same way I would love to be there to see the difference it makes I guess I've never heard super high-end speakers to really understand the difference I understand what he's talking about then improvements on parts.
Danny, you are a good gentleman.
Wow Danny, looks like you can't wait to get up and go as clip ends ... almost as if you want to put distance between yourself and the Klipsch asap! :-)
Danny…What if the speakers were lying horizontally & the horns were mounted above the woofer, on top of the cabinet with the voice coils aligned…I love the dynamics and looks of horns especially outside the cabinet & without grills…FYI Bought my forte 1’s in 85 new…
The length of the horn lens is wrong if you did that..its complex. Horns were necessary when amps were only 50 watts..now power is no problem.. horns have their place in far field use. (Big arenas) .. not in small -medium rooms..
@@davidstevens7809 Thanks..
Would it have been better not to use a ‘Midrange’ speaker? Did you try to design a better crossover with out the mid? Thanks for all your work.
Hi Danny. Different topic but i would love to see a video on your thoughts of the Bowers and Wilkins crossovers that they have for all of the speakers on their website. You can clearly see all of the components that they use so you could easily spot the good the bad and the cheesy.
Hi, do you have suggestions to upgrade KEF Q150? Do you have the nomunations of parts? Thanks.
Here you go: gr-research.com/product/kef-q150-upgrade/
In horn systems don’t the acoustic centers shift, depending on the frequency being reproduced higher frequencies being more sensitive due to the compression of the horn as I understand it, the acoustic Center can lie somewhere along the path of the horn rather than at the voice coil and when testing phase alignment you really can only have perfect alignmentat a predetermined point or several predetermined points typically the crossover frequency
The acoustic centers are fixed, but the phase can shift with wavelength.
I TOTALLY AGREE. and the sweetspot is so small.. theyre ok in big rooms..maybe..
Why a transformer on the tweeter? How does that work?
why cant you show us the speaker after room correction. will that make a difference?
Room correction isn't relevant to the speakers response. It is also a variable. It is basically just EQ and EQ will not fix the issue that we see with these speakers.
Would you like some bagels with that schmear? There's no way to make the mid and treble horns phase coherent without moving the tweeter nearly a foot backward.
I’ve been conversing with the owner of Shin Jitsu audio, who makes a small cabinet with a full range driver crossing over to a horn stuck on top of the cabinet to handle the high frequencies. He claims that the opening of the horn should be aligned with the front baffle, even though the horn is probably four or 5 inches deep, which goes against what you just said, what’s the deal Danny love that video I’ve learned so much from you
I'm curious if that huge Klipsch Jubilee speaker with it's two-way design and active crossover measures better in the time domain with a somewhat coherent blending of drivers. That seems to be the "undiscovered country" for Klipsch designs.
Way back when the DQ10’s had aligned voice coils….
Jak zwykle świetna robota 👌
I'm starting to worry if there's a Santa Claus. Sometimes ignorance IS bliss. I suspect my beloved stereo speakers from France have cheesy parts, ferrous materials, and were built to a price point, even though they sold at a premium one. Can I get a No Rez squeeze ball?
This was almost as good as it got back in the day.
Pretty impressive if you ask me considering they probably did not use digital equipment to measure with (no digital means no memory, means no pretty printout to analyze).
Wrapping the horns in rope putty helps horns a lot. One of my beefs with Klipsch has always been the aluminum horns. Plastic horns sound much better imo.
I mean , okay Danny, I’m sure your analysis and data are close if not right on. These were gen 1 Forte’s manufactured in what, 1986? 1987? The present day Forte IV and crossover network is WAY more complex, and it is now 33 years later. If you mean to try and compare a Forte IV to, lets just say, the Bully, with modern components, moderm knowledge and design, then I think you should do that. The price points are similar. The size and look are similar. I would challenge you to take my Forte IV, optimize the existing network if necessary, and put them head to head both in terms of analysis AND in terms of how they sound in real life. I like your videos. I like your approach. Sometimes it just kind of feels like you’re bashing yesterday’s knowledge with present-day understanding and tools, which have improved over time.
I don’t think this is the case. He has talked about and upgraded many new speakers as well as old. He even said this speaker measures better than some of the newer ones.
I've designed an upgrade for the Forte 3 and the Forte 4 as well. There has been little to no improvement in them over the years. They still suffer from the same issues.
The Bully is in a completely difference class and league. That isn't even a comparisons in any way.
You can send in your Forte IV speakers if you’d like and have him give them a look. Danny would probably find your challenge interesting.
So all the reviewers who say the IV was an improvement over the III were just imagining it? ("There has been little to no improvement in them over the years"). I don't think any reviewer's word should be taken for gospel but I don't think Ken Micallef's Stereophile review saying "[vs. the III] Forte IV is more coherent, sweeter, smoother, and more refined, with a better-defined top end, a warmer midrange, and the same trademark dynamics and low-end weight as the previous Forte version. " is complete BS, either.
Electronic frequency filtering has been around for over 100 years and the physics has been fully understood and formalised for more than 70, about 30 years before the manufacture of the first Fortes. It hasn't improved because the audio buying public seem perfectly content to tolerate mediocre sound and continue spending stupid money on badly designed and equipped product.
Horn speakers lend nicely to active drive with DSP
yes, but you really need some silent amplification. all the digital crossover i heard had hiss noise, and that was not horns.
@@sudd3660 In-cabinet budget DSP & power solutions do that. Usually met in active home studio monitors. You get circa 120dB SNR spec in modern external processors and Hypex Class-D power modules.
@@sudd3660 True for the internal electronics of enough active studio monitors. Especially when in the affordable category. On the other hand, higher grade external processor units and Hypex Class-D power modules are very silent.
than you probably heard the bad ones ? I use DSP based Monitors from Neumann and theyre crystal clear without any hiss. And theyre pinpoint acourate. Even with external / internal DSP Correction (miniDSP) no hiss at all, same with Genelec's or Actives with Hypex Modules.... Never had any (hearble) Hiss Problems with Actives, and i listen over 10 yrs now only with Active Systems
Let me guess, they suck but if the owner buys your improvements they won’t suck anymore
pretty much the whole point of the video. Are you deaf?
Correct. Though, it defends on how one defines "sucks". Some people prefer awful sounding speakers.
I buy the explanation, unfortunately I own two pair of Forte II and unless I get lucky in the lottery they're staying. One point I'd offer is that my listening space is small and crowded with stuff perhaps that matters. So I'll look for a GR vid on the Forte II, see if it's been done.
I've had forte1 and Cornwall 1 both completely disappeared and layers the orchestra very well. Small monitors sound nothing like music
My experience is quite the opposite. In reality there is no way a Klipsch speaker can reach the layers of transparency and imaging that I am accustom to.
why is your chart the only chart ive seen that stops at 200? thats quite odd
Accurately measuring lower than that requires moving the mic further away. Moving the mic further away makes it hard to get a clear measurement without room reflections. I can do a nearfield of the lows and splice it in like Stereophile does, but that is not very accurate either and is also easily manipulated.
Wonder how the Crites modded ones measure
They recreate the exact factory crossover but with much better parts. So the measurement would be the same as factory.
The mixture of design compromises Paul Klipsch chose for this design was good enough for it to be produced for forty years with only incremental upgrades. 14:09 Ask yourself honestly if you want a layered 3D soundstage or something fun to listen to
Quite the hilarious false dichotomy.
Thanks Danny. Q: All of that random bracing you propose, isn't there a risk that it'll just move the resonances up to the critical midrange?
The no rez is there to knock out the higher frequency vibrations
Hi Danny,
A basic question: if I add bracing to a vented cabinet will it change the resonant frequency and interfere with the port tuning?
The braces can take up some space and raise the tuning a few hertz. However, adding more stuffing will give that air space back.
I have recently got a pair of Klipsch Tangent 500 with a woofer damaged. (Heresy II with bigger box + passive radiator... as if the bigger box isn't a gigantic passive radiator as well)...
The crossover looked identical to what you have on your desk there, the box wall are so so thin, absolutely no bracing, the 4 walls of the box are passive radiators. Oh yeah, they did throw in (Yes just randomly tossed in) two sheets of open cell foam for packing computer hard drives in there.
This thing... funny enough, is the biggest speaker by sheer volume in my home... By my seat of the pants feel, it have as much bass as some bookshelf speakers, maybe less. There's no depth in the bass, but the mid and high plays plenty loud. Yeah, I'm getting rid of this pair of speakers. Since these old fashioned Klipsch still commands a good resale price in the second hand market for some reason. It is just a much better deal to get rid of them and get something better. Maybe I'll use the money to get that HPM-100 upgrade kit that I've always wanted to get. (I was jumping up and down happy when I saw Danny decided to tackle HPM-100...)
I wish someone would send in their Forte IV’s for an upgrade kit.
We've done one.
@@dannyrichie9743 is the kit on your website? Have you done a video for it? I must of missed it then.
@@dannyrichie9743 is a kit going on your website? Will you post video about it?
Will you be releasing a kit or video about it?
Do you have a package for Cornwall IVs too Danny? Id buy 2 for sure
I've owned 2 pairs of Forte's and a pair of Heresy's. They are just okay. And I've tried them with different amplifiers. Tubes of different sorts and solid state, class A, Class AB and class D. To me they are kinda like DJ speakers in a woodgrain box. They use inexpensive pro type drivers. For their size they are bass shy. There is a trade-off for that super high sensitivity. Particularly in a woofer. High sensitivity woofers are generally lightweight cones with a higher free air resonance making them unsuitable for deep bass extension. There is no free lunch.Yes they have bass but given the size of the woofer and cabinet it really isn't that impressive. Unless you are throwing a house party, one could get better sound by using a less efficient speaker with a better frequency response, better bass extension, better parts, and better crossover and driver integration.
Very few speakers seem to have time aligned drivers. Even B&W 801 D4s, at $42,000/pair, don't have time aligned drivers. What am I missing here?
Layered three dimensional sound that goes above and beyond.
@@dannyrichie9743 Even your own designs don't have time aligned drivers. So is it important, or not?
@@huskypup3489 Some of our designs do. See our NX Series models.
Klipsch overprices their speakers like crazy. Building them out of plywood and 2x4’s, with stamped steel woofer baskets and paper woofers is not high end to me.
Too late for me, I’ve already changed the crossovers with ALK Crossovers and tt Tweeter and braced the cabinets. I could add some no rez. 😊
No rez really cleans these speakers up a lot well worth the effort!
After buying a set of Vandersteen 1B's and watching your videos I will never buy Klipsch again.
I love the sound of Vandees. I had a pair of 2c’s many years ago. I’d love to own a pair of 5’s someday but it’ll be a while before I can afford them
@@MrBonger88 I do too! I was skeptical at first since I've always owned Klipsch and like to play my music loud but WOW what an upgrade. I'm hoping to get the 3A's someday🤞
@@mrsmokalotapotamus6530 realistically, the 3’s are probably what I’ll end up buying as they are within my budget but one can’t help dreaming about the Kento’s (former 5) and even the 7’s
I agree, I’m just getting into audio. So I went to my friend who talked me into the GREAT Klipsch. haha I bought the 504C center channel, RP8000F towers, and the RP600Ms then I found Danny and decided to try an upgrade on one, the 504C, and WOW what a difference. So now I am upgrading all of them. I will never buy or recommend a klipsch to anyone, I could have spent the money and bought Danny’s speakers and been done Thank you Danny I appreciate all your hard work and love your video’s. I learn something every time you put one out and kick myself for not seeing you sooner.
@@troymcnett3019 I was introduced to Klipsch as a child by my fathers friend across our street. He brought home a pair of Chorus 2's and blew my mind. Spent time at the local hifi shop once I could drive and bought myself a set of CF 4's for my first apartment. Family all owned Klipsch and I always thought they were great speakers. Life happened and I got away from having a system but my little brother went on to sell audio at the very same hifi shop I would frequent. He also had a big set of Klipsch....at first. He soon realized just how bad Klipsch sound. I always figured he was being a snob since he now had B&W speakers and nice gear. Recently I had a set of KG 3.2s with Crites tweeters and crossovers and was very happy. My brother text me saying his friend had a set of Vandersteen b1s for sale and I should by them as they are better than any Klipsch. I had my doubts and figured they wouldn't make me happy since I like to play it loud. My brother was right and it isn't close at all. I also recently found Dannys videos and while I could tell my CF4s were made cheap I am surprised that every Klipsch speaker is made cheap as possible. I too will never again recommend Klipsch to anyone. My eyes have been opened ...
I know I’ve asked this before, but what do you charge to do a set of speakers you’ve never done before?
That is a little like asking what I charge to fix a car that I haven't seen and I don't know what is wrong with it.
You know, we measure, test and evaluate them for free. Then we can give you some ideas....
@@dannyrichie9743 interesting. I don’t understand, but that’s ok. Maybe you’re asking for more information. I have a pair of Realistic Mach Ones. You’ve never done a pair before, and they’re a very popular speaker. I thought perhaps you’d take them to use to create a kit, and there would be a flat fee or something like that. So, now that I’ve given you a little more info, is there a range of prices that it might end up costing? Something someone else said somewhere implied to me that you do these upgrades at low to no cost so that you have new products. I probably misunderstood.
@@cpe1704tks If we design an upgrade for a commonly mass produced speaker then I don't charge a fee for the design work. I make up my time on it by selling the same upgrade to many others.
Thank you 😊
If the horns were mounted on top of the cabinet rather than inside it, the imaging would be much better.
That 12" looks just like a Speakerlab W1208R.
Loved my Super 7’s…
@brittania100 - Oh it pains my heart to read your comment using the past tense of love, as in no longer have 😭
The first version (before the wave aperture horns) were my introduction to Speakerlab, and have collected all but the wave aperture mid-range horns to accompany my WA tweeters, then probably off to Danny for X-O expertise, God bless him!
👊🤠👍
@@JAFO. I don’t recall exactly why I sold the super 7’s & my Dynaco PAT 5 & 120 so many decades ago but I do recall they spent a few years in a bar in Granada Hills, “The Sugar Sweet” & later ended up at a local College probably Pierce College..the dynamics were the reason I’ve stuck with horns with the exception of Dahlquist dq10’s..
Currently have a JBL SA600 & a pair of dynakit mark 111”s all brought up to factory specs by none other than Bob Hovland…
Is the Forte 1 not PW Klipsches personal work?
Keep up the ethos.better quality better sound. 😊
Whoa boy here we go. Lol. Full disclosure. I like Klipsch. I own RF7IIIs, RP 600s, and some 90s models for surrounds/heights. Let it fly Danny. I can take it😊
I have had a horn speaker , wasza thivanlabs eros 9 anniversary ,
Was not for the shouting treble it had be the perfect speaker , it was even easy to ear that the tweeter had potential ,
The only " crossover" was a cheap capacitor between woofer and tweeter, suprising enough the rest of the response was nit on perfect ...apart from.the shouting tweeter ,
At the time i tought even to change the capacitor for an amp-ohm one ( they are known to sound a bit on the warm side ) but at the end i was afraid of a costly mistake ( those capacitors are expensive)
Now, years on , i regret not having keep them and send them to gr research
That speaker had a sismic bass capacity , control to it , life , and was dynamic and very , very very fast in transient response .....but that shouting ........uuuufff
Danny where you been ??
😅😅😅i don't see a big midhorn. A joke like the crossover parts. Hands up for DIY.
So, when Danny tackled the Forte, did it end up scoring anyway?!😂
Every speaker ever made pretty much sucks and sound terrible.......but that's OK, lucky for you I'm here and I make and sell kits to fix ALL of them. What a richard.
Looks like you could make a better speaker with that tweeter and a 10" or two 8's.
Summary of Danny's upgrade videos: Cheesy x-over components, tube connectors, built to a price point, cabinet resonance - dyna mats, add some bracing.
Yes, manufacturers tend to cheap out on the things you can't see.
Let's not forget completely redesigning the crossover!
"Sounds 10x better..."
I enjoy my Klipsch worry free because I am not looking for any of the refinements offered. If I wanted to constipate myself, I would not own Klipsch.
I guess you enjoy that harsh Klipsch sound?