Korg: Finally it’s updated Thor: Cool what’s the new mode Korg: uhm I’ll be right back I need to grab more beer you are almost empty Thor: lemme look Thor: *surpised pikachu crying face*
On the topic of seemingly abandoned arcs: what about Drax. He didn't even get to see Thanos eye-to-eye in that final battle, despite HIS MAIN MOTIVATION BEING TO GET REVENGE ON THANOS!
FootlessMoon Badger nor wasn’t rocket yet he still gets more screen time then the rest of the guardians who all (besides groot and mantis) probably had a grudge or hate for thanos
Yeah he should’ve gotten scarlet witch’s moment as unlike Wanda he actually lost everything because of Thanos. All Wanda lost thanks to Thanos was Vision and despite having lost her parents and brother apparently vision was “everything” to her. Drax on the other hand lost his home, half his race, his wife, AND daughter
@@ljg18 yeah but rocket didn't die in Infinity war dude. I do agree though but after the first Guardians movie they kind of made Drax more comical which wouldn't make for a good set up like fans would have wanted. Unlike Thor who had a great setup in Infinity war which he didn't have in Endgame
@@HeilRay he wasn't in the same reality as our own MCU until he came back to the present so what he does isn't important to anyone but him and Peggy so we won't get much
I don't disagree with you that Thor's moments weren't super redemptive, but he did learn that he was still worthy when summoning Mjolnir and he offered to do the first snap. His arc isn't about becoming the hero he "should" be, but who he IS-- which is still depressed, but determined. He's got a future in the MCU, so I believe he will have more development, unlike the other 2 mains Cap and Tony.
Yeah, it feels like that MCU wasn't over yet. We may see Tony ended his arc with his death when he snaps. We may see Roger ended his arc by going back in time and return to the timeline where he belongs and see an old man similar to him (whether it was actually him or it's just an alternate version of him) retiring. But Thor didn't end here. He had a lot to learn to do and live on his arc until he ended it in the future. -And someday, he may beat NoobMaster69.-
Riddle me this: What does it actually mean for Thor to be worthy? If Thor is still considered worthy when he is at his most pathetic and useless, then what is the point of that word?
This is because Thor's arc isn't finished yet. I didn't really like how he was made for comic relief, but I understand why he became slob, because the amount of grief he has is incomparable. I think he'll have a side part in Guardians of the Galaxy 3 that will build up to Thor 4 or Agardians of the Galaxy that wraps up his story.
TraceguyRune especially with how each time he was pretty much about to get to sit on the throne, something bad happens. Then when he finally did, half his people died. The universe does not think he is worthy for the throne, but at least he's worthy of mjolnir still
Well, the reason why he acted so hilarious because he still trying to get rid of the pain and trauma he experienced. Comedy is the best medicine for everyone, especially for Big Lebowski himself. He uses his quips to overcome his loss in order to patch up his wounded feels and fight back against his conflict. His arc isn't about trying to be a hero, because he's already a hero. It's not about he should be, but who he IS... he still got his worthiness to magnetize his hammer and an axe. And after taking a break for 5 years of retirement, he gets a chance to fight back.
The talk with his mother meant less than being worthy for him. That's what really sparks his change and motivation for becoming what he was if not better
It was. And I still think Thor should've destroyed the dreadnought as a part of his arch instead of Captain Karen whose presence had little impact and even less significance... and enjoyability. (That's nothing against the actress, just the character😊😊).
I actually like how they took the realistic route and turned Thor the way they did. And honestly, I think they really redeemed Thor at the end with him volunteering to be the one to snap and fighting against Thanos and his army. While I do think it's a flawed arc, and it's not very well represented in Endgame, I don't think it's over yet
I also think it's good for his arc that he's constantly bragging in an annoying way so he could reassure himself that he's a strong guy but in reality he's a broken wretch
Wait what? Stan Lee was going to be old cap? creating a precedent that all the other Stan lee cameos were Captain America? Captain America came up with "Tony Stank"? you are blowing my mind Sir
I think the reason why Fortnite is still popular in 2023, is because the snap also wiped out all the good video game developers, so people had to resort to go back to Fortnite
Makes sense. I never played Fornite, so can't say for sure, but I think the survival of the game relies on servers, which costs money to maintain and operate. Unless Epic Games was making good on the game, I'd see it being canned.
Maybe all the remaining developers tried making good games, but then failed after the loss of people, and some games had to be scrapped completely because of the lack of staff.
Well, at least Minecraft survived the snap next to Fortnite. So I think they are the two survivors of the gaming community. (I'm not even a fan of gaming)
Out of the three Peter B Parker (In Spider-Verse), Thor (In Endgame) and Luke (In Last Jedi) Peter B Parker’s role as a disenfranchised hero works the best in my opinion.
Thor's arc is still not ended tho, to just revert back and do something epic in the span of only one movie..... wouldn't that make the build up to his fall pointless? samurai jack deals with his failure in the span of 4 episodes (not sure) which equals to weeks (he spends a lot of time in the cave with the wolf, in the belly of the leviathan and showing Ashi Aku's world) It's like you wanted Thanos' snap to be reverted in the post credit scenes of Infinity war, give Marvel time to plan a proper arc of redemption and changing for Thor, this wasn't his movie at all
Apart from the fact that Thor's ark isn't complete yet (so he'll probably have his dramatic 'endgame' completion later on), Thor's arc in Endgame is him coming to terms with the fact that he isn't the super unstoppable God of Thunder that he thought he was, an arc which started with Ragnarok. Thor has always been a character who's had everything in life. Endless power, heir to a kingdom, while always being able to handle things and save the day with his own talents. Even though he's with the avengers, he tends to only be with them when their interests directly align, otherwise he goes off on his own journey (even in Avengers Age of Ultron and Infinity War). Endgame was Thor coming to terms with the fact that he finally failed, and failed more than any other hero arguably. He comes to terms with the fact that he isn't the King of Asgard that he was brought up to be. The other avengers all take the limelight, and someone who is in essence a god among them learns to be a team player and accept his own limitations, something he's never really had to do before. In his current state he's too weak to wield the infinity gauntlet, too weak to fight Thanos alone, unable to save the day. He's lost his hubris and his facade of being the ultimate hero, the strongest avenger. Thor has been a hero for over a thousand years, coming to terms with his first real failure. His path has been lit up in front of him his entire life. Thor's arc was realising that its not who his real path, and now by giving up his kingdom, his endgame will be finding out exactly what type of hero and person he really is.
I feel like most of the stuff you talk about here is developed far more, and alot better in ragnarok and infinity war. And while he is still looking for his own path, the as shown by him giving up the throne to valkyrie, the character development for thor was slim to none in endgame. Ik his contract is renewed but that still doesn't make up for the fact that they did my boy thor dirty in endgame.
I appreciate Schaff's opinion but I also appreciate this opinion. Thor has plenty of room still to grow. This movie wasn't about sending him off. Also I want more Professor Hulk bc he didn't get enough limelight in this movie either
I feel like Thor didn’t get a definitive hero moment because they’re still planning to give him one. After Endgame, he’s the only core avenger that still has movies left, so I can see them focusing more on the aftermath with Thor’s character in later movies.
TBF Thor could still wield Mjolnir, it wasn't a big moment but he was, despite all his failures, his actions, what he had become he was still worthy. That was a nice moment for me
The weight from Thor's depression and internal conflicts come from there being no quick-fix. He goes with the Guardians Of The Galaxy to heal his internal wounds. That is the big pay-off, the fact that Thor heals like a human and that his depression doesn't make him any less worthy off anything. He isn't redeemed because he IS still afraid of failure. He fails and he deals with it like a real person. I like how he is treated like a human. And many don't. You can hate what they did to Thor, but at least hate it for the right reasons.
He also wanted to be the one to use the gauntlet when Bruce told him no. His sacrifice was that he A. Couldn't end his life and B. Be the one who solves everything for the first time
Yes, I wanna add that maybe they intentionally left out his heroic moment in endgame so that it could be fixed in Guardians 3. I still hate fat Thor tho, not because what he looks like, but because he played Fortnite. That's just too far man.
@@bababoosky656 Yeah. The 'what's up cool kids' moment made me cringe in the cinema. I still appreciate the fact that people are annoyed over the decision. Not because it's bad that they are annoyed, but because of how much of a bold move the directors chose to put it in. Not many films with superheroes would risk that kind of thing, but for me it payed off.
@@deponensvogel7261 I think Thor being there will be good for Starlord's development. Besides James Gunn already had knowledge on infinity war and endgame.
Gunn had no input in him being there in the first place and he's said 3 was going to be a Rocket Centric film. Killing of Gamora and adding somebody like Thor seems like it might shake some stuff up.
Personally I think Frigga's conversion with Thor is so important because she was his first loss. Ever since then its been downhill for Thor. Think about it. After that he finds out he's not the only one worthy of Mjolnir, loses his father, loses Mjolnir and Asgard, then loses half his people AND his brother, and finally Thanos was the final nail in the coffin. It all started with Frigga, losing her was so big that it genuinely brought Thor and Loki together. I feel like having that resolved and Thor understanding that losing is okay as long as you keep going is perfect for him because Thor takes the L a whole lot but we don't notice because he plays it off as a win. He's yet to accept failure
I mean, Loki was actually his first emotional loss in Thor 1, but then Loki just happened to not have *actually* died, so Thor got to be mad at him in Avengers over it probably less than a year later when he showed up and started terrorizing Earth. Frigga was just the first loss that never got retracted later with a “ha, sike”. He did actually have to mourn his brother in between 1 and Avengers, same as Thor mourning him after Dark World. Those two ‘deaths’ just didn’t actually influence anything cause in Thor 1, the person he was mourning *was* the villain, and in Thor 2, he was able to just win and defeat the big bad and get his ‘revenge’. The big difference with Endgame was just that he lost, and we’re supposed to believe that Loki’s death is real this time, which is probably the biggest lie he’s ever tried to pull, cause no one who knows the guy actually believes he’s dead for good, *if* he even died to begin with and didn’t just pull off the ultimate trick and say, make Thanos think he was dead with some vague magic to save his own butt while also motivating his brother/hinting a possible solution to Thor.
the fact that you can praise the last jedi and criticize endgame makes you like. dramatically more trustworth y to me, because it means you don't box things as "good" or "bad" but that there are critera and spectra of good and bad and i'm really glad you uploaded this.
I think the point was, in every other movie, Thors got his 'defined as a hero' dramatic win end after the loss. But in this one, he had to stop being that Hero, he's not the Hero, he's not the King, he's just a good man trying his best, and he does that, and then has to find out what's next. His mother even says that to him.
I think this comparison doesn't really work, because...endgame doesn't try to redeem thor... really. Coming into endgame thor is not the only broken Hero. Endgame redeems Tony and Steve. Clint and Natasha to a lesser degree. And it does that very well. It doesn't redeem Thor, because Thor is...way too broken to be redeemed in this movie and it would even be a bit of a waste to just redeem him here when you have more thor movies coming up where you could do the character more justice. (not really sure if 'redeemed' is the right word, but I'm just gonna use it ^^). The movie even SAYS this outright. when he literally begs Tony to do the snap and Tony tells him no. This is actually one of my favorite moments because it shows how broken Thor still is, but it also shows obviously that in the situation they are in now (and thus in the movie^^) there's not really the time to redeem Thor yet, just to start the healing process. By the end of the movie Thor shirks his responsibilities as king to leave for a new adventure further solidifying that he is not back on track yet. Edit: oh wow so many likes!
In that regard the "I'm still worthy" scene meant a lot. It's very telling how broken he is when he didn't even expect to be worthy of wielding mjolnir anymore.
I wouldn't say Thor letting go of his title as king is indicative that he is not back on track yet, instead I think it shows character growth of Thor. The only reason Thor was chosen as king is because he was the son of odin, as opposed to Valkyrie who has stepped up as leader of Asgard when Thor went into his depressive drunken state.
I don't see it as "shirking". Thor probably still doesn't see himself as fit to rule Asgard. Not like he really got the chance to assess his capability as a ruler, thanks to Hela.
Stephanie Barnes this, and the original comment, do you guys understand why this has ultimately made movies pointless? It’s just long television now. Why should I have to keep up with the politics outside of the movie in order to properly analyze what was or wasn’t satisfying in a 3 HOUR MOVIE with a massive budget. “You can’t criticize that plot point because Chris Hemsworth renewed his contract. They still managed to write a good story for half of the characters.”
You know what's bothering me? He stole the past Thor's hammer and just got away with it. Past/Alternative reality Thor has no hammer now, what's he going to do? He's still a God of Hammers.
Noobmaster is fallen legend27. He also had a downfall like Thor because everyone who played Game of War is now dead and he has to start over in another game
I disagree that he didn't have a redemption moment. When he was back on Asgard he lifts Mjölnir. This is a big moment because he has been broken for five years and has been basking in failure since the snap, he is so deep in depression that he doubts he is worthy of anything let alone Mjölnir. So when he lifts the hammer, it shows him (and everyone else in the audience) that depression does not make you unworthy. I just think that this is such a powerful moment for anyone who is suffering like Thor was, thinking they've failed. I also think that his arc will be continued in Guardians 3 and Thor 4. Also when he says he's just coming for the beer that's probably not true but he just wants to hide to the others and himself that he cares. He wants to be done and to not do anything about it in case he fails even further. So acting like he doesn't care is a crutch he can fall back on if they fail again "I just came along for the ride, we lost but that's not my fault because I just came for the beer". In truth he did care he just didn't want to show it in case they failed again.
Bingo! Thor was also desperate for another chance to redeem himself for his past failures by making the sacrifice to undo "The Snap" after they gathered all the stones. The Hulk was the best candidate though. Thor also showed growth beyond his original egotism by patiently waiting for Cap and Iron Man to join him before confronting Thanos. The old Thor would've just rushed in and fought alone. I also like how Thor stayed overweight and didn't just magically return to his original muscular form when he powered up. I wonder why people expected Thor to just magically overcome his depression? Depression isn't necessarily something the average person can "just get over" that easily. The film did a great job at showing how far Thor had fallen and how the circumstances of being called back into action and gathering the stones began to help him recover. By the final confrontation with Thanos, he was nowhere near recovered but he was in a much better place mentally. I guess people were just too emotionally invested in assuming Thor was only being played for laughs and didn't pay enough attention to Thor's actual behavior and how it subtly improved during the movie.
@@navy0287 I mean, I get why they didn't just have him magically turned to normal, but, I think what should have happened was that he should have been last to convince, and Tony, of all people, should have been the one to convince him to join the fight. After Rocket and Hulk fail to convince him, Tony goes and convinces him, as a man who has failed, yet moved on, to stand up and fight, despite his depression. Thor should say that he isn't worthy of the hammer, and that he isn't the strong, buff guy he used to be, but Tony recognizes, after all the failure he has gone through, that Thor is still Thor, regardless of his depression. It's similar to how Tony felt in the third iron Man film, but instead, Thor feels that way. Have Rocket come back with Hulk, and tell the team they couldn't convince him, and he's drunk, which motivates Tony to go to him, and convince him.
Oof, Marvel's "subtle" marketing at telling people to stop wallowing in their problems and just to go out and face your problems head-on is a bit vague if you weren't looking for Thor as a surrogate but that's awfully nice in thought. At close this off, for anyone struggling with depression, "You are still worthy."
@@dominickeijzer5844sorry for suddenly appearing after a year but, 🤓☝️ In ESB, Luke wasn't on Dagobah _nearly_ as long as he was on Ahch To. On Dagobah, the ship was underwater for at most a week (though Luke was there for at least a month). Not only that, but X-Wings are airtight and durable, being able to withstand high and freezing temperatures. Luke and his X-Wing were on Ahch To for six years. In that time, the X-Wing was completely submerged under rough water, completely untouched by him. You can see the X-Wing covered in seaweed and rust, which naturally happens when water is in contact with iron or steel for an extended period of time. Rusting is a very slow process. Even if it's hard to tell the little details from what we see in TLJ, you can still definitely tell the X-Wing is not in good condition. Which could also be a factor of the ship being worn down by the rough waters. I also saw a theory somewhere that Luke's door that Chewie busts down is part of the X-Wing, but take that with a massive grain of salt. So yea thx for reading my nerd essay
yeah, but his point is that he had such a conflict with Thanos that it felt odd for him to face him without adressing his problems in a dramatic/well structured arc. Way too much comedy for such a destroyed character that didn't allow many dramatic scenes coming from him.
I mean, why would they end his arc in Endgame..? It’s NOT the end of his story. He’s not the focus. Thor will be back. More stories will have him involved.
Harrison Riggs I think you’re very right, but I think the problem is the fact that he must avenge the death of the people he loves as well as make up for letting himself down by confronting Thanos.
Thor is the only main avenger who is actually still out there in the world doing stuff. I think they’re saving his final big hero moment for another film.
I believe there's even a deleted scene in TLJ where Luke tries to turn on the ship again, but it spend so much time underwater it was completely broken. Then the new movie came out and...
2011: This guy is fine 2012: Meh 2013: Guy kinda sucks 2015: sure he's fine 2017: WE FREAKING LOVE YOU THOR!!! 2018: He's so awesome 2019: You need to go to the gym
@@paulmcpherson4918 Thanos wasn't the cause. He has suffered multiple tragedy that he hasn't dealt with. Lost the woman he loves, and hasn't come to terms with that. Failed to protect his home, and then lost to Thanos.
@@feelmypuddle4963 Yet Thanos was the biggest reason, he killed Heimdall, Loki and half of the Asgardians left, then snapped half the population from the face of the earth cause Thor failed to stop him (literally what is made clear to be the reason he fucked off in the movie)
Real life is hardly as simple as just "getting over one obstacle", there's a lot more involved, it's a long process. He did get *some* redemption in Endgame, but his recovery process is still not over.
@@GladDori At the start of the film Thor kills Thanos. But it didn't solve anything because that loss was still there. I prefer that they chose to play his growth over multiple movies because End Game was already packed and we didn't have time for a good conclusion
Yeah you would think losing half of your friends and your brother and your dad in a short span of time as well as losing to a villain that you could have beaten would be reason for depression
Really disagree. He isn’t supposed to be redeemed here. If he was redeemed at the end of endgame, it would be incredibly insulting in a way. I absolutely love how, by the end, he’s still broken, still depressed. If he were to end “fixed”, that would be stupid and insulting to anyone who actually has depression. He is not “back to his old self” after talking to his mum. He’s just realised there is hope, there is a way he can recover. That is far away from actually being recovered. I doubt Thor was actually convinced just by the beer. He wanted to play it like he didn’t really care. Which is certainly another realistic part of his depression. The “fat jokes” are also realistic. Comedy has ALWAYS been Thor’s coping mechanism. As for the others joking at his expense, this is painfully realistic too, people do not know how to handle someone who is broken. You also see this when Rocket slaps Thor IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANIC ATTACK. Not helpful. You speak about how Luke’s arc feels complete and Thor’s doesn’t. That’s because it isn’t. This isn’t the end of Thor’s arc, he’ll get his amazing sendoff another time. The only way Thor really could’ve been redeemed and had his arc end here would be to die. If he lives on he can’t end the movie happy. Depression really doesn’t work like that, honestly it’s incredible to still see him fighting at the end after what he’s been through. I love the lack of a training montage and that the depression doesn’t just magically disappear at any point. It’s gonna take time to fully get Thor back to his best, and once he’s there, once he’s finally overcome his demons (endgame Thor is just the extension of what Thor has been since Ragnarok) that’ll be the best point at which to end his arc. Let him be happy before ending it. Also, Thor did get a “hero” moment. Getting the hammer back in the time heist. That “I’m still worthy!” moment was awesome, and absolutely perfect as a motivator for Thor, who no doubt has some pretty low self esteem at this point. It makes me wish there was some way to show everyone who has depression that they aren’t lesser. It’s utterly brilliant and I love it. It’s not as instrumental to the plot as the moments the other main heroes got, but that’s okay. Unlike the others we are getting more Thor. So his huge hero moment will come, at the end of his arc.
Musical Brit i never saw it that way, but I really do appreciate that. It adds new perspective and plus as someone who deals with depression it adds more relatableness
*Schaffrilas in the past:* I will never make a video talking about anything good in TLJ *Schaffrilas in the present:* Amazing. Every word you just said was wrong.
@@jakespacepiratee3740 Correction: He's talking directly to a past version of himself, so even though he might be talking to himself, he's still talking to a separate being; you is the correct pronoun.
I thought you said in your "How To "Subvert Expectations" Correctly (Last Jedi/Infinity War Analysis)" you'd never want to think about The Last Jedi ever again.
Tony and Cap had completed arcs because those were their last movies, yet Thor's arc is meant to be completed in Guardians 3. Though I agree his arc could have had more emotional weight in Endgame, I also am excited to see a broken Thor find himself with the group of misfits in Guardians 3. His arc is yet to be completed.
I didn't think about this before, but I do agree that there is a lack of Thor getting a big defining moment in this film. I think the biggest reason for that is because they know that Thor isn't done yet. Hemsworth has all the intention in the world t stick with this role for a good while longer, so they spent time with the other Avengers who were having their final moment to shine here. I will say that I disagree with your assessment about his scene with his Mom though. That was an incredibly powerful scene and one that I'd never expect to see in a movie like this. Seeing a superhero just sitting down and talking with his Mom about being depressed. It's amazing and shows that depression isn't something that he's going to magically have solved, it's going to take some time of him accepting who he is. I honestly think it's a little silly to expect the same level of final character fulfilling moment as Cap and Ironman for Thor because he just isn't done yet. I fully expect to see the follow up to Thor being depressed and seeing if that will change now that Thanos is actually defeated in GotG 3. Good video though, hopefully, the comment section will allow for such a wild thing as disagreement and discussion. Anyway, fuck The Last Jedi.
I disagree with you and I think Schaffrillas would too. The mother scene was great in my opinion, but he still didn’t get any final confrontation with Thanos (Same with the Hulk and Drax). These characters probably have the biggest personal beef that don’t interact with Thanos and coincidentally they’re treated like jokes instead of actual dramatic characters. Before I rant too long I’ll just explain Thor like Sch did, he faced his first big major defeat, he ended up failing due to his personal vengeance and got half the universe wiped out because of his flaw. Then they just magically make his guilt mostly go away in one scene and it has no major payoff with Thanos (Hell they should’ve just replaced Captain Marvel with Thor in the final battle and it would’ve been pretty decent with some minor differences).
I agree, that scene with his mom was really good. I wasn't expecting that and it was indeed a powerful moment. I'm waiting to see what's going to happen with Thor in the future.
densandwitch How the fuck does his guilt “mostly magically go away with one scene”? Are we talking about the same movie? Listen to him in the hulk snap scene, that is not a man who’s guilt has magically disappeared. You can’t fix someone that broken in one movie, that’s why they don’t. He will get his moment. Just not here. Also, I like the lack of a Drax scene. I think it’s gonna lead to some interesting dialogue in GOTG3. His entire character was based around revenge and killing Thanos, and now Thanos is dead, with no chance to kill him himself.
6:04 this is a conversation with his dead mother, The woman he misses more than Jane. After she speaks with him becomes worthy, Then he gains his delf confidence back.
I personally loved Thor in Endgame and I personally found him very relatable, especially because of how my life has been for about the last two years or so. He kinda helped me be able to cope with certain things and he feels very real to me. I look forward to seeing what they do with him in the future now that he has all of his Asgardians back and knowing they're safe can leave to pursue more things in life I've always loved Luke Skywalker my entire life and was almost even named after him because of what he mean to my family and how they hoped I would be, so watching him go out the way he did in TLJ honestly really made me cry because one of my childhood heroes is gone.
I'm glad it helped you. He actually has about 2% of the asgardians left so I wouldn't use "all" personally. :) I don't consider Disney Canon to be star wars. Kelvin Startrek is clearly a different product with different characters who have different traits and personalities. Disney Star Wars is similarly- a different product that disavowed tons of canon material to make it's own new version of star wars. As such, it's no more canon to the real star wars than Kelvin Star trek is canon to thereal star trek. And now it's known that "Prime" star trek isn't the original star trek either-- in fact, contractually, it has to be 25% different than the original star trek. They tried to sell STD as a TOS product but it's not. It's a new space drama portraying completely different themes with star trek IP pasted over it. I made a decision that I won't buy these alternate dystopic modern versions of products which throw existing canon out the window.
Mac Mcleod I disagree with the Star Trek comparison. Star Trek completely rebooted itself while Star Wars kind of just reworked itself. It’s fine if you prefer the Legends canon to the new one, but I don’t think the comparison really works. That’s like saying the prequels aren’t the same Star Wars since they got rid of some comics people made prior to that.
I'm with you, yo boi crust! I felt it'd oddly comforting to see a hero struggle in a very VERY relatable way. Healing takes time, and he hasn't had his epic moment yet.
@@MisterGuy25 art is open to different people's interpretation and whether you're merely quibbling over a point or if you actually liked the new series then you have a right to your opinion. I won't spend my money on Star Wars, Star Trek, or The Terminator franchises because all have betrayed the original underlying theme and become noticeably less hopeful and more dystopic. Terminator has the ability to disavowal Canon under the cover of time manipulation but it has still changed the basic message at the series. Star Wars essentially throughout tons of Canon and as of now I don't consider it Star Wars anymore. I won't spend any money on it because it's not the latest version of the same product but is instead a completely new product. The fact they slapped the old name on it doesn't work for me. But if it works for you, that's cool.
Mac Mcleod That’s still not what I’m saying all I’m saying is that the comparison doesn’t work. It’s fine if you think the new movies don’t embody the core of Star Wars, I was just saying it’s a different situation to Star Trek
“I fundamentally disagree with everything you wrote about my character”. This is a quote from Mark Hamill himself and I have to agree with him and most of the fanbase. Its not that he was a terrible character in this movie, but it wasn’t believable a Luke Skywalker. This is the same person who wouldn’t give up on trying to redeem his father, Darth Fucking Vader, despite being told to by everyone it was impossible. That was his whole arc at the end of ROTJ. He gave into the darkside for a brief moment out of anger after hearing Vader threatening to do something Leia. He then ruthlessly goes after him in a sheer moment of rage and disarms him by literally cutting off his hand. Then he pauses after hearing Sidious laugh, telling him to kill his own father and seeing that his arm, like his own, was robotic. This perfectly reflects with the ESB moment where he he decapitates Vader in a vision only to see his own face under the mask. He sees himself on Vader and saw how easy it was to go down the path of the darkside. He himself had just stuck his toe in it for a few seconds and looking down at the beaten Darth Vader, he comes back to his senses and realizes he just reaffirmed his values through that fight. “I am a Jedi like my father before me” he says while showing mercy on Darth Vader because he still knows that there is good in him, to Sidious’ displeasure. His character would never have gone down that road in reality, as no matter what, he wouldn’t have tried to kill Kylo in the first place and even if he did, he wouldn’t have given up and stopped. He wouldn’t have just hidden away at the mere sight of his dead pupils. He would’ve done nothing but tried to stop him from going further down the darkside and make him try to come back. This is why TLJ Luke is not our Luke because “storys are like poems, they rhyme”, and this Luke doesn’t remind us of our optimistic farm boy from Tatooine
Couldn't have said it better. Not to mention that the way Jake is set up in TLJ completely negates the ENTIRE macguffin plot of TFA. If he had gone to Ach Too to die, why would he leave a map to the place literally no one knows about so he could be found? What's the point?
R Thomas Thats actually something I didn’t realize but knew at the same time? Like I got that subconsciously but before you pointed that out that didn’t cross my mind. Plus why is it that he was “searching for the first Jedi Temple” but when we get there its seen as just an island? Its sad because you know we aren’t going to get an explanation as to what anything was there or how special it is. Why are we supposed to be ok with that?
@@zachtemoro2116 It's stuff like that that make me wonder how anyone could think TLJ was overall a good Star Wars film. It would've been a great film, and is a fine film, standing on its own. However, in the context of the greater Star Wars mythology, it just has so many blatant flaws and issues. Now we get to ask ourselves questions like "if Force ghosts can manifest powers on the mortal plane like calling down a friggin lightning strike, how come Yoda and Obi-Wan help Luke fight Vader and/or the Emperor" and "how come they don't just ram a starfighter into the enemy flagship at hyperspace and win [insert space battle name here]?" There is no longer consistency within the lore of the universe itself, and that's what really grinds my gears. Sure, Legends had inconsistencies and things later had to be retconned, but those were in books and games, and nowhere near the same scale as the inconsistencies presented IN A SAGA FILM. And to add insult to injury, the job of the Lucasfilm Story Group is to make sure these kinds of inconsistencies don't happen across their new canon, based on the lessons learned from Legends. They canned a wonderful, still-thriving Expanded Universe in Legends for this train wreck that really by all accounts should have been (and had the potential to be) even better. But no. Instead, we get called misogynists and bigots and racists (and I'm African-American, mind you) for not liking the new canon characters. However, I am safe in the knowledge that I just dislike poorly written characters, because every time I bring up, for example, that most of my favorite Star Wars characters are in fact women, I can easily prove such people wrong.
R Thomas I agree with you on everything except fir the starfighter scene. Even though 2/3s of the movie had already gone by and I was already at the point where I was mad and upset, I distinctly remember seeing that scene and being like “HOLY FUCK THAT JUST HAPPENED AND IT WAS AWESOME”! Now looking back to that I still like it and I still think it was valid, however theres NO way it should’ve done that damage. It basically took out the entire fleet of the Empire in one hit which wouldn’t have happened in actuality. You have to remember that that star destroyer was a Dreadnaught and those things are HUGE. It was atleast 50 times bigger than the Resistance star destroyer, so when she went into hyperspeed, I am 100% on board with the Dreadnaught being taken out the way it was (not completely destroyed but damaged beyond compare with fire and the ship falling apart), but it should not have touched any other ship. The only other problem I had with that scene was that it was Holdo who did it. Nobody cared about her character and nobody liked her. She was there and she was actually annoying. The whole mutiny scene was valid because she was being dumb and didn’t tell people what the plan was, not even Poe. I remember hearing someone rant about this and complain there could’ve been a scene along the lines where she brings him aside and says “I can’t risk the First Order knowing of our actual plan. Right now we can only assume they were some how able to create something to track us through lightspeed, but I can not take put everyone endanger on an assumption. For all we know we could have a spy on our ship sending information on our location, so for the security and safety of our cause, I cannot say what we are doing, but please understand that I have a plan”. That would’ve been SO MUCH BETTER THAN what we got, but because they didn’t do that or come up with a more interesting plot for her, we had an uninteresting charcoal with no attachment to the audience do the coolest thing in the movie. Imagine if it was Poe who did it, someone we actually sort of cared about and the whole movie we got to be with him and have him grow as a character. For me, thats the only scene in the movie that works despite the whole fleet being destroyed and Holdo was the one who did it
I dunno, he got his hammer which said he was still worthy. As for an actual action he does which shows him to be the hero, I think that's his journey with the guardians. See, it's interesting because he still wants to do right, but he's still wanting that ego, hence his argument with 'who the captain is' with Peter and wanting to be the one who did the snap. This vid feels a lil unearned.
I Do Monologues so its just like steve but worse? I guess thats why it was overshadowed by other characters? Also, i dont think being worthy = redemption, it was never said like that in the movie (i may be wrong though?)
I'd say the most redemptive thing Thor did was stand up to Thanos. You don't need him to talk to Thanos. To be completely honest, I don't think Thor even needs to be redeemed. Sure, he chilled out and played Fortnite for a few years while there was nothing going on post-snap, but right when they called on him, he agreed to do it.
"Luke, his arc is complete" "Thor isn't the focus" That's exactly it. This is not Thor's movie. Thor wasn't meant to be redeemed in Endgame and they slap you in the face with it when Tony doesn't let him use the Gauntlet.
@@jrd33 I look at that as his middle stage while the first was being fat and playing fortnite. The third should've been a final payoff and blow at Thanos to complete his arc
@@techno639 That's fine if this was a Thor movie but it's an Avengers movie. I think it would have been a mistake to try and give another character a nice, tidy ending - Iron Man and Captain America are the main characters in this film, as they are leaving the franchise. Thor's arc is not yet finished, he will be in future movies.
@@jrd33 But I feel like this should've been an end to the arc he started in Ragnarok. He's one of the core main avengers and is part of the Marvel trinity he's VERY important to the story. Infinity war gave thor a beginning (losing everyone) a middle (making stormbreaker) and an end (the attempt and failure to kill thanos) In endgame, Thor only has a beginning middle and no end. The closest we got was him summoning his armor and weapons and saying "Let's kill him properly this time" which was a good moment but I feel like it wasn't enough there should've been a more emotional and impactful moment with him fighting thanos like the "bring me thanos" moment in Infinity War. I get that he's appearing in more movies like in Guardians 3 but that just further proves my point that Thor in Endgame is kinda incomplete and slightly less developed than the other characters in Endgame. I still love the movie but this was my biggest issue with it.
Thors redemption came at the end when he was willing to face his fear of Thanos. After his failure, he couldn't even think about Thanos. When they brought him up he quivered in fear. Even though his body wasn't the same as before he was still willing to go out there and fight for it all with everyone else. Even his physical condition wasn't enough to stop him from fighting. In infinity war he put stopping then it was solely on his shoulders. Throughout the entire movie he knew it was his responsibility to finish Thanos to get even for losing his best friend and brother. But in Endgame he realize that is going to take a team effort and he was man enough to let Cap use his hammer I'll be at his s"mall hammer"
His actual redemption came when he picked up mjolnir at Asgard. He stopped believing in himself after he failed to kill Thanos by not lopping off his head at the end of Infinity war and mjolnir showed that he was in fact still worthy despite his failure.
Thor did want to be the one to snap the guantlet, but everyone else was against it because he still doesn't seem super mentally stable. The moment with his mother and having the hammer only acts as a band aid. It's not ideal or satisfying, but it still makes sense in the context of Thor's setup
Yeah, maybe his comedic act is actually the way he hides his pain. So he's using a lot of jokes and stuff to cure the pain and forget the trauma he experienced.
@@Anna-tk7ui No. He actually hides his pain when it comes to losing everything. His family, his home, his brother, his girlfriend, and he even gets killed almost by a purple grape.
Thor's redemption moments: 1) Lifting Mjolnir in 2013 Asgard. 2) Offering to snap his fingers. 3) Helping the team in the big battle. 4) I'm sure Guardians 3 and Thor 4 will have more.
I know,we seem to think that one film can be good because of other good films in the franchise when there not but if that’s the case with avengers why not star wars
@@dyland1842 true,people should share there opinions but there are toxic people who do t make good points and think one film is good because the franchise had other good films
but if that happened all the fanboys would freak out about how the x-wing shouldn't work anymore kind of like how they freak out about everything else that happens
No, the sequels are already way to similar to the original trilogy, the whole thing is a soft reboot with fancier cgi and less interesting characters. The last thing the sequels need is even more fan service.
I feel like Thor's redemption is in him picking up his own hammer. I think as audience members, we are meant to be against Thor - he failed at literally everything he was going to do. He isn't our worthy hero anymore, and he has just lost the plot and reason to be THAT hero. Russo's could have 100% done something different with his redemption but he's got more movies, so they couldn't send him off with a powerful redemption like Cap or Iron Man.
While I agree with all the points you made about Thor in Endgame, I think there's a good chance that he'll get a more complete and satisfying end to his arch within the final two films of his contract. While initially I felt his arch is incredibly cheap and unsatisfactory, I trust the Russo brothers and James Gunn with his character
I have similar sentiments in regard to Star Lord. After losing Gamora and then being responsible for not getting the gauntlet off Thanos, I was hoping he would at least have a small scene of redemption. But then in the two scenes where he's a main focus he winds up just being pointed and laughed at. Here's hoping he gets a redemption in Guardians 3
Wow it's almost like both Thor and Peter both have a more exclusive film coming out where they can both explore their similar grief and failure and finally gain common ground, remember how we had to wait for Ironman 3 to see how disturbed Tony was and then had to wait again to see how it truly played out in Avengers 2, I mean it's almost as if they set up story lines to be resolved in other movies.
I feel the reason Thor doesn’t have the moment of true redemption is because his character isn’t done yet. I’m guessing whatever he does as a part of the AsGuardians of the galaxy will feature more character growth until his eventual send off probably in a feature avengers movie which will likely have him be the one who saves the day.
Why would he discuss it? It was a lazy and forced scene. The point he’s making is that he had no real endgame so any redemption that the movie put on him didn’t seem rewarding or refreshing. The scene left more questions than answers: what exactly did thor do to deserve the worthiness?
@@bimboification its not exactly what thor did but its more of the fact that despite thor's depression and low self esteem, he is still a noble good man capable of doing good things.
communist mothra exactly. I would much rather have a scene where he finds -miljor- -mjoleer- hammer and looks at it in fear, before picking it up with hesitation, then having the worthy sentence. It would at least be a little more satisfying than "oh I remember that I had a hammer let me call it yoink, yay I'm worthy I'm out fuckerz".
@@bimboification The entire "worthy of Mjollnir" plot device is bullshit anyway. Unless Asgard has some really fucked up morals, Cap should have been the worthy one if any one of the Avengers. Or Vision perhaps. Not Thor, who, while fairly noble and virtuous, was far from morally perfect, as evidenced by his behavior in his first movie. And yes, both Vision and Cap do at some point get the worthy status, and Thor does lose it in the first movie, but it is still bullshit since it should be the other way around if morals, integrity, virtue, courage etc. etc. are the issue here.
he didnt dissapear he commited suicide he wasnt killed by kylo luke didnt become a hero he became a coward willing to let all he cares about die so he could have "peace" this so called revelation that luke was more mature is utter hogwash. TLJ is an insult to movies period even The Room was better written.
Here's the thing though. If Rian would just completely cut out the "milking scene" and the "lightsaber toss" scene, rewrite some of his dialogue, rewrite Luke's "fall" in the flashbacks in a lengthier and more convincing manner, keep his "rise back to greatness," and make it more convincing that what he did on Crait would kill him instead of randomly shoving it in the scene, he would be a great character. From my point of view, that's not a whole lot to change.
@@joeblazer3429 Not doing anything cool? HE PROJECTED HIMSELF ACROSS THE ENTIRE FUCKING GALAXY AND BLUFFED THE FIRST ORDER LONG ENOUGH FOR THE REMNANTS OF THE RESISTANCE TO ESCAPE. He pulled a Tassadar vs Kerrigan move on Kylo. That's pretty fucking rad if you ask me.
All right what I really liked about Luke's death scene was him imagining the two suns with binary sunset playing. It's an almost perfect comparison to him being dropped off with the Lars' from revenge of the sith, from the lighting, to the camera angle to the score. It's so good
Triple D idk, I just feel like when talking about the two main plot threads in infinity war they are thanos’ story and Thor’s story because there’s more personal tension there. Thanos and tony didn’t have any interaction before the fight on titan, thanos killing half of Asgard put a more dramatic hero-villain relationship then thanos had with tony. I mean tony’s story is a close third though.
I think Thor’s moment of redemption was when he was still worthy of Mjolnir, that might’ve been the moment he realized he is still the mighty thor he once was .
Niem Numble pie Seriously, he’s obviously a shill for Disney and not a trustworthy film critic and is definitely not a Real Star Wars Fan (TM). In all seriousness, as someone who enjoyed The Last Jedi and enjoyed all the Star Wars films for a decade before that movie, it’s nice to see someone make a video that says even one positive thing about it instead of acting like the movie is a cancer on our society.
This video fails because: It assumes that Endgame is the end for Thor's character. When he has Guardians and Thor 4 to finish his character arc and redeem himself.
The problem lies not in Endgame not being the end for Thor's character, it's in the pale payoff for Thor's journey in Endgame. Thor's journey in Endgame started at the end of Infinity war, where Thor had a big part in not being able to stop Thanos. Then we see him desperately try to redeem himself by killing Thanos but failing due to the destruction of the stones. After that we see a muddled and destroyed Thor, in which he loses his body, hides from his responsibility and shrieks at the mention of his failure. In infinity war we can see Thor still carries the burdens from his previous journeys, the lost of his father, his mother and his homeland, but infinity war brings a conclusion for Thor's arc in that movie. We saw him fail and we felt that. And his failure was his conclusion in infinity war. In Endgame, he doesn't get a satisfying conclusion. He doesn't get a moment where he gets a payoff in yelling against Thanos, he doesn't get a moment to properly display his anger at his failure by defeating that failure. Thor is pushed so far back in Endgame but we don't feel his bounceback, we don't feel him fighting against his failure in a movie where everyone of the original Avengers had to display their last ditch effort in fixing their failure. Endgame has a lot of faults and a lot of problems. I think the dissatisfying conclusion for Thor is one of them. You don't need to finish his character arc to give a satisfying conclusion, you just need to finish his journey in this movie.
Thor both proves he's still worthy with Mjolnir (not just talking to his mom), and facing Thanos at all is a mighty achievement. When it's so set up that he's terrified of him, simply taking the field at all is monumental. "Let's kill him properly this time" both admits he failed alone and that he needs to accept the help of others. It is, in my opinion, a masterful study of both how depression and PTSD works and how others react to depression to the point that I'm convinced that a depressed person wrote it. I cannot count the amount of people who have made fat jokes or commented on my weight when I put on that same stomach Thor has from stress eating and trying to drink his issues away. He wasn't there for everyone to understand, because when he was on screen I felt like I was watching myself in a movie and that really smacked me in the head. Even the "helping for beer" thing. He needed in his own mind a reason beyond being helpful, cause he doesn't do that anymore. And his friends provided a flimsy, shitty reason that he could grab and say to himself "Yes well I'm just in it for the beer, when that's gone I am too". However, then he sees Thanos. That fucking scene. When he "becomes" Thor again and all of his gear gets put back on, he stays fat. He can't magically fix depression despite his power. He can't suddenly undo everything he did to himself, and he has to live with it. And then he goes to war with perhaps the one person in the universe he truly fears, because he knows he has to. Many would break or balk at the idea of doing such a thing, but it shows how he has grown from someone who can't even hear the name without breaking down, to being ready to face Thanos. Thanos is more of an allegory for his own mental struggle than a for for the first part of that fight. When Thor is alone, Thanos is slowly but surely beating him. When Thor's friends join, they turn the tide. In my opinion it illustrates how defeating depression while isolated is nigh impossible, and can only be done with the help of the people around you.
EXACTLY! And I feel like his actual redemption of sorts will be in his new movie with the Guardians. He's faced his biggest fear and helped kill it. Now that Thanos is gone, and the mistake Thor made is fixed, I feel like he can finally heal. And his arc is really fitting with the Guardians. 1. Because the Guardians focus o more realistic struggles like abandonment issues, abuse (poor Gamora also R.I.P. Gamora), hate, vengeance, realistic relationships, depression and anger issues. Thor had like 3 or 4 of those at one point but he has depression. And 2. Thor just has good chemistry with the guardians and is more laid back like them. Movie wise (Especially Ragnorock or however you spell it), and character wise. I think the part that Sch- I cannot spell that. The part that the dude in the video misunderstood, is that he thought that Endgame was Thor's full redemption. Which it's clearly not. But he also didn't fully understand (I think) that Thor's depression and PTSD was that bad. I end my case. For now.
Thor: *is relaxing and playing Fortnite with korg*
Epic Games: *releases thanos game mode*
Thor: ...
*Insert nam flashback cat image
Gg
Korg: Finally it’s updated
Thor: Cool what’s the new mode
Korg: uhm I’ll be right back I need to grab more beer you are almost empty
Thor: lemme look
Thor: *surpised pikachu crying face*
Thor: Let's kill him properly this time
That's why he was playing Fortnite. He just wanted vengeance against thanos in a way where he could drink his favorite beer at the same time!
On the topic of seemingly abandoned arcs: what about Drax. He didn't even get to see Thanos eye-to-eye in that final battle, despite HIS MAIN MOTIVATION BEING TO GET REVENGE ON THANOS!
bUt DrAx IsN't tHe MaIn ChArAcTeR
FootlessMoon Badger nor wasn’t rocket yet he still gets more screen time then the rest of the guardians who all (besides groot and mantis) probably had a grudge or hate for thanos
Yeah he should’ve gotten scarlet witch’s moment as unlike Wanda he actually lost everything because of Thanos.
All Wanda lost thanks to Thanos was Vision and despite having lost her parents and brother apparently vision was “everything” to her. Drax on the other hand lost his home, half his race, his wife, AND daughter
A Person With a Name I know right he didn’t seemed as angered when they fought him on titan or extremely mad in endgame
@@ljg18
yeah but rocket didn't die in Infinity war dude. I do agree though but after the first Guardians movie they kind of made Drax more comical which wouldn't make for a good set up like fans would have wanted. Unlike Thor who had a great setup in Infinity war which he didn't have in Endgame
Schaf: Stop complaining about Cap being old
Them: No, I don’t think I will
I’m actually hyped.
If anything happens to him tampering with the past, he’ll be at fault and realize this
@@HeilRay he wasn't in the same reality as our own MCU until he came back to the present so what he does isn't important to anyone but him and Peggy so we won't get much
@Darewin Ocampo But if he used the particles to get back, wouldn't he have appeared on the platform instead of on the bench?
@SolarChroniclesXII Just curious, why is that?
@SolarChroniclesXII I mean, I think Bucky would have fit the mantle better, but to each their own I guess.
“He can’t fly to Crait because his ship is underwater”
Well this video aged like milk
lol
Maybe...
*GREEN MILK!?!?*
He kept his word he came there to die and were did he die
He kept his word he came there to die and were did he die hmmm
I'm assuming becoming Force Ghosts did make someone more powerful than we can possibly imagine
It’s a good send off for tony stark and Steve Rodgers
Black widow: am I a joke to you
Black Widow : am I a joke to you ..
Me : chill you still have a prequel solo movie
Because it wasn't a good send off for her
Wait how can a prequel satisfyingly end a character if the characters already dead
what about poor vision
Carsonbee 123 yes
I don't disagree with you that Thor's moments weren't super redemptive, but he did learn that he was still worthy when summoning Mjolnir and he offered to do the first snap. His arc isn't about becoming the hero he "should" be, but who he IS-- which is still depressed, but determined. He's got a future in the MCU, so I believe he will have more development, unlike the other 2 mains Cap and Tony.
completely agree
*3 Mains
Yeah, it feels like that MCU wasn't over yet. We may see Tony ended his arc with his death when he snaps. We may see Roger ended his arc by going back in time and return to the timeline where he belongs and see an old man similar to him (whether it was actually him or it's just an alternate version of him) retiring. But Thor didn't end here. He had a lot to learn to do and live on his arc until he ended it in the future.
-And someday, he may beat NoobMaster69.-
Riddle me this: What does it actually mean for Thor to be worthy? If Thor is still considered worthy when he is at his most pathetic and useless, then what is the point of that word?
Hey Omni, did you get to see King of the Monsters yet?
This is because Thor's arc isn't finished yet. I didn't really like how he was made for comic relief, but I understand why he became slob, because the amount of grief he has is incomparable. I think he'll have a side part in Guardians of the Galaxy 3 that will build up to Thor 4 or Agardians of the Galaxy that wraps up his story.
El Mantishrimp exactly what I was thinking, Thor didn’t get an ending cause his story isn’t over, just beginning a new chapter
@@lordgenesect4897 Thor officially gave up the Throne to Asgard, which has been a dilemma since the first movie. I think that was the whole point
TraceguyRune especially with how each time he was pretty much about to get to sit on the throne, something bad happens. Then when he finally did, half his people died. The universe does not think he is worthy for the throne, but at least he's worthy of mjolnir still
I hope a major plot point in gotg3 is him and drax mad that they didnt get to finish him.
Well, the reason why he acted so hilarious because he still trying to get rid of the pain and trauma he experienced. Comedy is the best medicine for everyone, especially for Big Lebowski himself. He uses his quips to overcome his loss in order to patch up his wounded feels and fight back against his conflict.
His arc isn't about trying to be a hero, because he's already a hero. It's not about he should be, but who he IS... he still got his worthiness to magnetize his hammer and an axe. And after taking a break for 5 years of retirement, he gets a chance to fight back.
*Next Up:* NoobMaster69 will be the perfect villain for MCU Phase 4.
I hope Deadpool 3 opens up with Deadpool playing Fortnite, and getting a victory royale under the name "NoobMaster69"
@@shootingstarwarrior YES
@@shootingstarwarrior So it's not a kid? I'm going to jot it down on the list.
It would be hilarious if it was Loki
Theory: Noobmaster69 is Kid Loki
Years ago I wish to have a body like Thor
Now I have it
Lmao that’s great
That's my favorite comment.
You win the internet.
Yeah haven't seen this one like 14 million times before
lile?
What Daredevil and Scarlet Witch have in common,
1. They both wear red
2. They both lost their vision
Thank you for this fun fact Eddie Benavides
your contribution will be thanked
F.
I MADE THIS JOKE ALL THE TIME!
Lol
I don't know. I think the scene where Thor realized that he was "still worthy" was a pretty good moment.
The talk with his mother meant less than being worthy for him. That's what really sparks his change and motivation for becoming what he was if not better
Honestly I think his talk with his mother is the reason he even thought of the idea in the first place.
i think that the redemption of thor will be in "thor: love and thunder"
@@zapatillasiniestra i agree
It was. And I still think Thor should've destroyed the dreadnought as a part of his arch instead of Captain Karen whose presence had little impact and even less significance... and enjoyability.
(That's nothing against the actress, just the character😊😊).
I actually like how they took the realistic route and turned Thor the way they did. And honestly, I think they really redeemed Thor at the end with him volunteering to be the one to snap and fighting against Thanos and his army. While I do think it's a flawed arc, and it's not very well represented in Endgame, I don't think it's over yet
I'm confused has Justin Y changed his profile picture.
@@bunceman4613 nope it's a fake
I also think it's good for his arc that he's constantly bragging in an annoying way so he could reassure himself that he's a strong guy but in reality he's a broken wretch
7:54
Fun fact:
Old Cap was originally going to be the Stan Lee cameo, but the directors scrapped it because it'd "cause too much confusion".
Mega Man M Well, the 70s Stan Lee cameo was pretty neat
@@pequenoperezoso3743 Yeah, it was. I was just saying an interesting sipbit from an interview from the Russo's. That's all. c:
Mega Man M they done my boi Stan dirty
Wait what? Stan Lee was going to be old cap? creating a precedent that all the other Stan lee cameos were Captain America?
Captain America came up with "Tony Stank"?
you are blowing my mind Sir
that actually would have been amazing. would mean all stan cameos are just him checkin in on the avengers.
I think the reason why Fortnite is still popular in 2023, is because the snap also wiped out all the good video game developers, so people had to resort to go back to Fortnite
Makes sense. I never played Fornite, so can't say for sure, but I think the survival of the game relies on servers, which costs money to maintain and operate. Unless Epic Games was making good on the game, I'd see it being canned.
Maybe all the remaining developers tried making good games, but then failed after the loss of people, and some games had to be scrapped completely because of the lack of staff.
TraceguyRune They had Paragon but trashed it for fortnite
Well, at least Minecraft survived the snap next to Fortnite. So I think they are the two survivors of the gaming community. (I'm not even a fan of gaming)
FARTNITE BAD. MAINCRAFT GOOD. PRAISE GERALDO.
its why he's the only avenger to have more than 3 movies. his arc just isnt finished
your profile pic really looks like mine lol
@@martim2810 shit it does
Holy shit it does
Holy fucking shit it does
@@jacobrubin2591 holy fucking fucking shit it does
Out of the three Peter B Parker (In Spider-Verse), Thor (In Endgame) and Luke (In Last Jedi) Peter B Parker’s role as a disenfranchised hero works the best in my opinion.
Another great example would be Samurai Jack and his arc of being broken.
Oh my gosh! Thanks for liking my nerdy comment
@@michaeldorsey9231 and Logan
Thor's arc is still not ended tho, to just revert back and do something epic in the span of only one movie..... wouldn't that make the build up to his fall pointless? samurai jack deals with his failure in the span of 4 episodes (not sure) which equals to weeks (he spends a lot of time in the cave with the wolf, in the belly of the leviathan and showing Ashi Aku's world) It's like you wanted Thanos' snap to be reverted in the post credit scenes of Infinity war, give Marvel time to plan a proper arc of redemption and changing for Thor, this wasn't his movie at all
@@alessandroconti380 Jack dealt with the frustration and anger for 50 years in between seasons too
Apart from the fact that Thor's ark isn't complete yet (so he'll probably have his dramatic 'endgame' completion later on), Thor's arc in Endgame is him coming to terms with the fact that he isn't the super unstoppable God of Thunder that he thought he was, an arc which started with Ragnarok.
Thor has always been a character who's had everything in life. Endless power, heir to a kingdom, while always being able to handle things and save the day with his own talents. Even though he's with the avengers, he tends to only be with them when their interests directly align, otherwise he goes off on his own journey (even in Avengers Age of Ultron and Infinity War).
Endgame was Thor coming to terms with the fact that he finally failed, and failed more than any other hero arguably. He comes to terms with the fact that he isn't the King of Asgard that he was brought up to be. The other avengers all take the limelight, and someone who is in essence a god among them learns to be a team player and accept his own limitations, something he's never really had to do before. In his current state he's too weak to wield the infinity gauntlet, too weak to fight Thanos alone, unable to save the day. He's lost his hubris and his facade of being the ultimate hero, the strongest avenger.
Thor has been a hero for over a thousand years, coming to terms with his first real failure. His path has been lit up in front of him his entire life. Thor's arc was realising that its not who his real path, and now by giving up his kingdom, his endgame will be finding out exactly what type of hero and person he really is.
👏👏👏👏 Great analysis
I feel like most of the stuff you talk about here is developed far more, and alot better in ragnarok and infinity war. And while he is still looking for his own path, the as shown by him giving up the throne to valkyrie, the character development for thor was slim to none in endgame. Ik his contract is renewed but that still doesn't make up for the fact that they did my boy thor dirty in endgame.
Also, he will definitely redeem himself in GOTG Volume 3.
I appreciate Schaff's opinion but I also appreciate this opinion. Thor has plenty of room still to grow. This movie wasn't about sending him off.
Also I want more Professor Hulk bc he didn't get enough limelight in this movie either
I like this opinion.
Okay, I know I said this before, but this, THIS right here is epic.
But you wanna know what would be more epic?
Reviewing Sherlock Gnomes.
A Guy SECOND!
@Bill Cipher Why not both?
I feel like Thor didn’t get a definitive hero moment because they’re still planning to give him one. After Endgame, he’s the only core avenger that still has movies left, so I can see them focusing more on the aftermath with Thor’s character in later movies.
I think you mean “alive movies” ahem, Black Widow, ahem
YES THANK YOU
I mean he’s with the Guardians now.
true thought the same
Doesn't the Hulk still have a couple movies? Like 1 or 2
“Last Jedi isn’t meme-able enough”
Ben Swolo would like to know your location
Its a dated meme but it checks out
I mean that wasn't at all the point he was making
As are the many porg videos
There’s no such thing as not being able to meme Star Wars
Memes are never dated.
Schaffrillas: Why didn't Thor get a moment like that?
Wong: What, like you wanted more?
Guardians III
TBF Thor could still wield Mjolnir, it wasn't a big moment but he was, despite all his failures, his actions, what he had become he was still worthy.
That was a nice moment for me
Not more just better
It's sad to see someone as powerful as Thor get panic attacks from Thanos's name mention. Poor Thor. I mean that.
JMJ077 because he’s a triggered libcuck millennial snowflake
@@antisora13 you joking?
@@antisora13 Well for starters, Thor isn't a millennial... He's hundreds of years old.
Gray Taylor Who hurt you?
Hes obviously joking...
The weight from Thor's depression and internal conflicts come from there being no quick-fix. He goes with the Guardians Of The Galaxy to heal his internal wounds. That is the big pay-off, the fact that Thor heals like a human and that his depression doesn't make him any less worthy off anything. He isn't redeemed because he IS still afraid of failure. He fails and he deals with it like a real person. I like how he is treated like a human. And many don't. You can hate what they did to Thor, but at least hate it for the right reasons.
Eurmandund agreed. I love Thor’s Ragnarok through Endgame arc.
He also wanted to be the one to use the gauntlet when Bruce told him no. His sacrifice was that he A. Couldn't end his life and B. Be the one who solves everything for the first time
Yes, I wanna add that maybe they intentionally left out his heroic moment in endgame so that it could be fixed in Guardians 3. I still hate fat Thor tho, not because what he looks like, but because he played Fortnite. That's just too far man.
GreenComet34 that’s exactly why he was playing it. To show what a shell he’s become
@@bababoosky656 Yeah. The 'what's up cool kids' moment made me cringe in the cinema. I still appreciate the fact that people are annoyed over the decision. Not because it's bad that they are annoyed, but because of how much of a bold move the directors chose to put it in. Not many films with superheroes would risk that kind of thing, but for me it payed off.
Thor is gonna carry Gaurdians 3 so hard he'll lose all the Lebowski weight
The Avengers movies put James Gunn in a really unthankful place. They killed off Gamora's character growth and put Thor into the mix.
@@deponensvogel7261 I think Thor being there will be good for Starlord's development. Besides James Gunn already had knowledge on infinity war and endgame.
@@cake6851 That might be the case, but he's maybe also gonna outshine the established GotG characters with his presence.
@Leath-bit Pretty sure he's in it
Gunn had no input in him being there in the first place and he's said 3 was going to be a Rocket Centric film. Killing of Gamora and adding somebody like Thor seems like it might shake some stuff up.
Personally I think Frigga's conversion with Thor is so important because she was his first loss. Ever since then its been downhill for Thor. Think about it. After that he finds out he's not the only one worthy of Mjolnir, loses his father, loses Mjolnir and Asgard, then loses half his people AND his brother, and finally Thanos was the final nail in the coffin. It all started with Frigga, losing her was so big that it genuinely brought Thor and Loki together. I feel like having that resolved and Thor understanding that losing is okay as long as you keep going is perfect for him because Thor takes the L a whole lot but we don't notice because he plays it off as a win. He's yet to accept failure
NV Comics that was beautiful
I mean, Loki was actually his first emotional loss in Thor 1, but then Loki just happened to not have *actually* died, so Thor got to be mad at him in Avengers over it probably less than a year later when he showed up and started terrorizing Earth. Frigga was just the first loss that never got retracted later with a “ha, sike”.
He did actually have to mourn his brother in between 1 and Avengers, same as Thor mourning him after Dark World. Those two ‘deaths’ just didn’t actually influence anything cause in Thor 1, the person he was mourning *was* the villain, and in Thor 2, he was able to just win and defeat the big bad and get his ‘revenge’.
The big difference with Endgame was just that he lost, and we’re supposed to believe that Loki’s death is real this time, which is probably the biggest lie he’s ever tried to pull, cause no one who knows the guy actually believes he’s dead for good, *if* he even died to begin with and didn’t just pull off the ultimate trick and say, make Thanos think he was dead with some vague magic to save his own butt while also motivating his brother/hinting a possible solution to Thor.
the fact that you can praise the last jedi and criticize endgame makes you like. dramatically more trustworth y to me, because it means you don't box things as "good" or "bad" but that there are critera and spectra of good and bad and i'm really glad you uploaded this.
bones couldn’t agree with you more
Really depends though. Although yeah Thor doesn’t have a payoff here, doesn’t mean he won’t have it later.
Yah, that's one of my favourite things about Schaf. He's always got this handle on nuance that just makes his reviews work well.
really? lol
Guess who genuinely likes the last Jedi? Meeeeee!
I think the point was, in every other movie, Thors got his 'defined as a hero' dramatic win end after the loss.
But in this one, he had to stop being that Hero, he's not the Hero, he's not the King, he's just a good man trying his best, and he does that, and then has to find out what's next.
His mother even says that to him.
Yeah I think the scene with his mother was great
“He’s not a king” that’s actually backed by how he tells Valkyrie to lead the people
I was gonna say the say the same thing
I think this comparison doesn't really work, because...endgame doesn't try to redeem thor... really.
Coming into endgame thor is not the only broken Hero. Endgame redeems Tony and Steve. Clint and Natasha to a lesser degree. And it does that very well. It doesn't redeem Thor, because Thor is...way too broken to be redeemed in this movie and it would even be a bit of a waste to just redeem him here when you have more thor movies coming up where you could do the character more justice. (not really sure if 'redeemed' is the right word, but I'm just gonna use it ^^).
The movie even SAYS this outright. when he literally begs Tony to do the snap and Tony tells him no. This is actually one of my favorite moments because it shows how broken Thor still is, but it also shows obviously that in the situation they are in now (and thus in the movie^^) there's not really the time to redeem Thor yet, just to start the healing process. By the end of the movie Thor shirks his responsibilities as king to leave for a new adventure further solidifying that he is not back on track yet.
Edit: oh wow so many likes!
In that regard the "I'm still worthy" scene meant a lot. It's very telling how broken he is when he didn't even expect to be worthy of wielding mjolnir anymore.
Yeah, Chris Hemsworth's contract is renewed, Thor's arc isn't done
I wouldn't say Thor letting go of his title as king is indicative that he is not back on track yet, instead I think it shows character growth of Thor. The only reason Thor was chosen as king is because he was the son of odin, as opposed to Valkyrie who has stepped up as leader of Asgard when Thor went into his depressive drunken state.
I don't see it as "shirking". Thor probably still doesn't see himself as fit to rule Asgard. Not like he really got the chance to assess his capability as a ruler, thanks to Hela.
Stephanie Barnes this, and the original comment, do you guys understand why this has ultimately made movies pointless? It’s just long television now.
Why should I have to keep up with the politics outside of the movie in order to properly analyze what was or wasn’t satisfying in a 3 HOUR MOVIE with a massive budget.
“You can’t criticize that plot point because Chris Hemsworth renewed his contract. They still managed to write a good story for half of the characters.”
I feel he was redeemed upon finding he could still lift his hammer in Endgame. "I'm still worthy".
Agreed. Its subtle, but if you ask shaff... 7:49
You know what's bothering me?
He stole the past Thor's hammer and just got away with it.
Past/Alternative reality Thor has no hammer now, what's he going to do? He's still a God of Hammers.
@@viscera_atrocity Cap put it back at the end.
@@viscera_atrocity I always just assumed that either Cap brought it back.
It wasnt impactful enough. His redemption was done in a matter of seconds
You're right, Thor never did get the chance to confront his biggest foe and complete his arc...
Noobmaster69 awaits
Actually Noobmaster69 could be Tacmaster. Or is his name Taskmaster? I’m not completely sure.
Noobmaster is fallen legend27. He also had a downfall like Thor because everyone who played Game of War is now dead and he has to start over in another game
SneakySneaky Snake I support this theory a lot more than my own.
@@kommandantkillcode it's just a theory we still need to see his redemption arc to make sure. Marvel make it happen
@@sneakysnake7695 Thaaats why Fortnite is dying
I disagree that he didn't have a redemption moment. When he was back on Asgard he lifts Mjölnir. This is a big moment because he has been broken for five years and has been basking in failure since the snap, he is so deep in depression that he doubts he is worthy of anything let alone Mjölnir. So when he lifts the hammer, it shows him (and everyone else in the audience) that depression does not make you unworthy. I just think that this is such a powerful moment for anyone who is suffering like Thor was, thinking they've failed. I also think that his arc will be continued in Guardians 3 and Thor 4. Also when he says he's just coming for the beer that's probably not true but he just wants to hide to the others and himself that he cares. He wants to be done and to not do anything about it in case he fails even further. So acting like he doesn't care is a crutch he can fall back on if they fail again "I just came along for the ride, we lost but that's not my fault because I just came for the beer". In truth he did care he just didn't want to show it in case they failed again.
Bingo! Thor was also desperate for another chance to redeem himself for his past failures by making the sacrifice to undo "The Snap" after they gathered all the stones. The Hulk was the best candidate though. Thor also showed growth beyond his original egotism by patiently waiting for Cap and Iron Man to join him before confronting Thanos. The old Thor would've just rushed in and fought alone.
I also like how Thor stayed overweight and didn't just magically return to his original muscular form when he powered up. I wonder why people expected Thor to just magically overcome his depression? Depression isn't necessarily something the average person can "just get over" that easily. The film did a great job at showing how far Thor had fallen and how the circumstances of being called back into action and gathering the stones began to help him recover.
By the final confrontation with Thanos, he was nowhere near recovered but he was in a much better place mentally. I guess people were just too emotionally invested in assuming Thor was only being played for laughs and didn't pay enough attention to Thor's actual behavior and how it subtly improved during the movie.
@@navy0287 I mean, I get why they didn't just have him magically turned to normal, but, I think what should have happened was that he should have been last to convince, and Tony, of all people, should have been the one to convince him to join the fight. After Rocket and Hulk fail to convince him, Tony goes and convinces him, as a man who has failed, yet moved on, to stand up and fight, despite his depression. Thor should say that he isn't worthy of the hammer, and that he isn't the strong, buff guy he used to be, but Tony recognizes, after all the failure he has gone through, that Thor is still Thor, regardless of his depression. It's similar to how Tony felt in the third iron Man film, but instead, Thor feels that way. Have Rocket come back with Hulk, and tell the team they couldn't convince him, and he's drunk, which motivates Tony to go to him, and convince him.
Thor did have a redemption moment. But I don't think it was as big as they could've made it.
Thanos: I am Inevitable.
Luke: I am not the last Jedi.
Thor: I am fat
and sad.
I am groot
I am Steve Rogers
I'm batman
And...I.....am..... Iron man
*and I'm Kanye West*
very cool, kanye.
I'm blue
Padme: “I’m also sad.” *Dies*
The fact that we can see ourselves becoming Thor in Endgame is why people hate what he becomes in Endgame.
Wow that's pretty accurate
Oof, Marvel's "subtle" marketing at telling people to stop wallowing in their problems and just to go out and face your problems head-on is a bit vague if you weren't looking for Thor as a surrogate but that's awfully nice in thought.
At close this off, for anyone struggling with depression, "You are still worthy."
Nah. People hate it because we didn't get to see overpowered Thor overpowering Thanos.
Wow that's a really good point...bravo
Relatable, have a nice day.
Listen, I get your point but...
After the Snap, I don't think people biggest priority would be game development.
Glad to your priorities in order lol
People still have the same jobs though, and all the same companies still exist... So why not
Half of the game developers died:(
@@teachugger8552 this sounds like the backstory yo Fallout76
@@solidkuroko2926 we shall not say that name around here
“First of all, his WHOLE SHIP IS UNDER WATER!”
Boy do I have some news for you
To get it out of the water and to get it working is 2 totally different things
@@LuucT25 it wasn't fully submerged tho. In all seriousness, the waves would be super destructive over how long he was there, so it kinda makes sense.
Insert picture of Yoda lifting Luke's X-Wing out of a SWAMP that he CRASHED into.
@@dominickeijzer5844sorry for suddenly appearing after a year but,
🤓☝️
In ESB, Luke wasn't on Dagobah _nearly_ as long as he was on Ahch To. On Dagobah, the ship was underwater for at most a week (though Luke was there for at least a month). Not only that, but X-Wings are airtight and durable, being able to withstand high and freezing temperatures.
Luke and his X-Wing were on Ahch To for six years. In that time, the X-Wing was completely submerged under rough water, completely untouched by him. You can see the X-Wing covered in seaweed and rust, which naturally happens when water is in contact with iron or steel for an extended period of time. Rusting is a very slow process. Even if it's hard to tell the little details from what we see in TLJ, you can still definitely tell the X-Wing is not in good condition. Which could also be a factor of the ship being worn down by the rough waters. I also saw a theory somewhere that Luke's door that Chewie busts down is part of the X-Wing, but take that with a massive grain of salt.
So yea thx for reading my nerd essay
Yoda: "Unbelievable."
I do appreciate anybody who can dislike a movie but recognize what it does well.
Simple: iron Man and captain America contracts were expiring, Thor's wasn't.
Or because his character arc was incomplete
Not so simple rdj wanted to renew his contract initially but finally accepted that it was fitting for his character to make the sacrafice play
Wait they're paid actors? I never knew! I always thought they were totally real
“Thor is the most device character in the movie”
Hulk: “Doubt”
Moses Hauselman shut
@@holygramatha4978 how about you shut
James Chambers how about you shut
@@tamaraross8331 how about you shut
@@safwawitwit6418 no u
“His whole ship is underwater”
JJ: *laughs in plot contrivance*
Thor wasn't supposed to be redeemed in this movie, he'll fulfill his character arc in guardian 3.
Exactly
We hope
no name yes but it should have happened in an AVENGERS movie.
@@ihbupontyne
Why
yeah, but his point is that he had such a conflict with Thanos that it felt odd for him to face him without adressing his problems in a dramatic/well structured arc. Way too much comedy for such a destroyed character that didn't allow many dramatic scenes coming from him.
3:07 Like that scene in "Homecoming"... "Thor's magic belt"
I mean, why would they end his arc in Endgame..?
It’s NOT the end of his story. He’s not the focus. Thor will be back. More stories will have him involved.
Harrison Riggs he just needed closure with Thanos, not necessarily the closure of his story like Tony and Steve.
Harrison Riggs I think you’re very right, but I think the problem is the fact that he must avenge the death of the people he loves as well as make up for letting himself down by confronting Thanos.
@salty sailor not even close to the end, marvel has dozens of plotlines that they can take from decades of comics
Because a film should complete itself.
Thor shouldn’t be done, but he should’ve had a conclusion between him and thanos but now it can’t happen
Thor is the only main avenger who is actually still out there in the world doing stuff. I think they’re saving his final big hero moment for another film.
Comics: *YES*
Hawkeye and Hulk, from the distance: ʰᵉʸ ʷʰᵃᵗ ᵃᵇᵒᵘᵗ ᵘˢ
Considering how embarrassing Love and Thunder was, I think Thor's hero moment is dead
Thor never had a heroic moment he deserved"
Drax: am I a joke to you?
Yes
Well, it’s hard to be heroic when you’re invisible for half the movie...
@@fortherepublic1263 lol
Outside of maybe gamora the guardians weren't really all that relevant
@@pandinus1377 wow hi grievous
“Of course Luke didn’t actually come because his ship is underwater”
Rise of Skywalker: I’m about to end this mans whole career
Better way to do this
Of course like couldn’t come because his ship is under water
Luke: ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?
Yoda: Stop me, that never has
Another reason why The Rise of Skywalker is the worst Star Wars film.
I believe there's even a deleted scene in TLJ where Luke tries to turn on the ship again, but it spend so much time underwater it was completely broken.
Then the new movie came out and...
Luke wasn’t redeemed he was assassinated and teabagged on
2011: This guy is fine
2012: Meh
2013: Guy kinda sucks
2015: sure he's fine
2017: WE FREAKING LOVE YOU THOR!!!
2018: He's so awesome
2019: You need to go to the gym
If you don’t like Thor because of his weight, you aren’t a true Thor fan
@@AmaDesperado but he really needs to though.
@@sean.a.s7234 he was quite tough for his shape in Endgame, considering he might not have thought for 5 years.
Amateur Desperado They didn’t say that but ok
He needs to eat a salad
I don’t think Thors character arc is done they set him up for guardians 3 I love your channel but gonna have to disagree on this one
Yeah, but thanos is the cause of his downfall, so his completion of arc would be way more powerful if it involved thanos
@@paulmcpherson4918 Thanos wasn't the cause. He has suffered multiple tragedy that he hasn't dealt with.
Lost the woman he loves, and hasn't come to terms with that.
Failed to protect his home, and then lost to Thanos.
@@feelmypuddle4963 Yet Thanos was the biggest reason, he killed Heimdall, Loki and half of the Asgardians left, then snapped half the population from the face of the earth cause Thor failed to stop him (literally what is made clear to be the reason he fucked off in the movie)
Real life is hardly as simple as just "getting over one obstacle", there's a lot more involved, it's a long process. He did get *some* redemption in Endgame, but his recovery process is still not over.
@@GladDori At the start of the film Thor kills Thanos.
But it didn't solve anything because that loss was still there.
I prefer that they chose to play his growth over multiple movies because End Game was already packed and we didn't have time for a good conclusion
eveyone: * doesnt speak about thor not even mentioning loki in endgame outside of the god forsaken loki fandom*
me: oh.... ok then
;--;
Yeah you would think losing half of your friends and your brother and your dad in a short span of time as well as losing to a villain that you could have beaten would be reason for depression
Thor is better because he probably watched anime at some point in those 5 years
For 5 years, he still can't beat NoobMaster69 with the N-Word in Fortnite.
*worse
*worse
worsen't*
Hentai joke
It's simple:
Thor has a future in the mcu and the others don't.
Hulk?
Yeah, that's pretty much this.
While that's true, Endgame was meant to signify the end of a chapter for him and it sure as hell didn't feel that way.
Josh R what about the hulk then
My opinion: Endgame wasn’t a conclusion. It’s a cheap and lazy cash grab and disguises itself as a conclusion
Really disagree. He isn’t supposed to be redeemed here. If he was redeemed at the end of endgame, it would be incredibly insulting in a way. I absolutely love how, by the end, he’s still broken, still depressed. If he were to end “fixed”, that would be stupid and insulting to anyone who actually has depression. He is not “back to his old self” after talking to his mum. He’s just realised there is hope, there is a way he can recover. That is far away from actually being recovered. I doubt Thor was actually convinced just by the beer. He wanted to play it like he didn’t really care. Which is certainly another realistic part of his depression. The “fat jokes” are also realistic. Comedy has ALWAYS been Thor’s coping mechanism. As for the others joking at his expense, this is painfully realistic too, people do not know how to handle someone who is broken. You also see this when Rocket slaps Thor IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANIC ATTACK. Not helpful.
You speak about how Luke’s arc feels complete and Thor’s doesn’t. That’s because it isn’t. This isn’t the end of Thor’s arc, he’ll get his amazing sendoff another time. The only way Thor really could’ve been redeemed and had his arc end here would be to die. If he lives on he can’t end the movie happy. Depression really doesn’t work like that, honestly it’s incredible to still see him fighting at the end after what he’s been through. I love the lack of a training montage and that the depression doesn’t just magically disappear at any point. It’s gonna take time to fully get Thor back to his best, and once he’s there, once he’s finally overcome his demons (endgame Thor is just the extension of what Thor has been since Ragnarok) that’ll be the best point at which to end his arc. Let him be happy before ending it.
Also, Thor did get a “hero” moment. Getting the hammer back in the time heist. That “I’m still worthy!” moment was awesome, and absolutely perfect as a motivator for Thor, who no doubt has some pretty low self esteem at this point. It makes me wish there was some way to show everyone who has depression that they aren’t lesser. It’s utterly brilliant and I love it. It’s not as instrumental to the plot as the moments the other main heroes got, but that’s okay. Unlike the others we are getting more Thor. So his huge hero moment will come, at the end of his arc.
Musical Brit i never saw it that way, but I really do appreciate that. It adds new perspective and plus as someone who deals with depression it adds more relatableness
Thank you thought the same thing didn’t wanna explain it though cause it’s 2 in the morning
Chris Hemsworth also thought this because he fought the directors to not have Thor be “fixed”, which is what they wanted to do
Thank you
I like this. Thor has always been my favorite and the way he was handled is very understandable
4:54 No, he joins the mission to fix what he feels is his mistake. He pretends not to care to avoid having to confront his emotions.
Yes! Exactly!
7:50 ironic
*Schaffrilas in the past:* I will never make a video talking about anything good in TLJ
*Schaffrilas in the present:* Amazing. Every word you just said was wrong.
Correction: Every word I just said was wrong.
@@jakespacepiratee3740 That ain't the quote.
@@jakespacepiratee3740 Correction: He's talking directly to a past version of himself, so even though he might be talking to himself, he's still talking to a separate being; you is the correct pronoun.
I thought you said in your "How To "Subvert Expectations" Correctly (Last Jedi/Infinity War Analysis)" you'd never want to think about The Last Jedi ever again.
Ace Coordinator Mary Well, he just subverted your expectations.
@@toyland_f .....you got me there.
He realized Last Jedi gives him all the views, so he had to make up an excuse
@@boshwa20 and so the vicious cycle of TLJ continues
@@boshwa20 Here I thought his amazing Shrek thinkpieces are how he gets all the views.
Tony and Cap had completed arcs because those were their last movies, yet Thor's arc is meant to be completed in Guardians 3. Though I agree his arc could have had more emotional weight in Endgame, I also am excited to see a broken Thor find himself with the group of misfits in Guardians 3. His arc is yet to be completed.
Yeah, but Thanos is the cause of his downfall, so his completion of arc would be way more powerful if it involved Thanos.
“A great sendoff to Tony and Cap”
*sad Black Widow noises*
I didn't think about this before, but I do agree that there is a lack of Thor getting a big defining moment in this film. I think the biggest reason for that is because they know that Thor isn't done yet. Hemsworth has all the intention in the world t stick with this role for a good while longer, so they spent time with the other Avengers who were having their final moment to shine here.
I will say that I disagree with your assessment about his scene with his Mom though. That was an incredibly powerful scene and one that I'd never expect to see in a movie like this. Seeing a superhero just sitting down and talking with his Mom about being depressed. It's amazing and shows that depression isn't something that he's going to magically have solved, it's going to take some time of him accepting who he is.
I honestly think it's a little silly to expect the same level of final character fulfilling moment as Cap and Ironman for Thor because he just isn't done yet. I fully expect to see the follow up to Thor being depressed and seeing if that will change now that Thanos is actually defeated in GotG 3.
Good video though, hopefully, the comment section will allow for such a wild thing as disagreement and discussion.
Anyway, fuck The Last Jedi.
I disagree with you and I think Schaffrillas would too. The mother scene was great in my opinion, but he still didn’t get any final confrontation with Thanos (Same with the Hulk and Drax). These characters probably have the biggest personal beef that don’t interact with Thanos and coincidentally they’re treated like jokes instead of actual dramatic characters. Before I rant too long I’ll just explain Thor like Sch did, he faced his first big major defeat, he ended up failing due to his personal vengeance and got half the universe wiped out because of his flaw. Then they just magically make his guilt mostly go away in one scene and it has no major payoff with Thanos (Hell they should’ve just replaced Captain Marvel with Thor in the final battle and it would’ve been pretty decent with some minor differences).
I agree, that scene with his mom was really good. I wasn't expecting that and it was indeed a powerful moment. I'm waiting to see what's going to happen with Thor in the future.
densandwitch How the fuck does his guilt “mostly magically go away with one scene”? Are we talking about the same movie? Listen to him in the hulk snap scene, that is not a man who’s guilt has magically disappeared. You can’t fix someone that broken in one movie, that’s why they don’t. He will get his moment. Just not here.
Also, I like the lack of a Drax scene. I think it’s gonna lead to some interesting dialogue in GOTG3. His entire character was based around revenge and killing Thanos, and now Thanos is dead, with no chance to kill him himself.
6:04 this is a conversation with his dead mother, The woman he misses more than Jane. After she speaks with him becomes worthy, Then he gains his delf confidence back.
Delf
Exactly. It's much more meaningful than a conversation with his mum.
@@megashark1013 yeah, i know
@@viktorstrand6855 yeah, typo
I personally loved Thor in Endgame and I personally found him very relatable, especially because of how my life has been for about the last two years or so. He kinda helped me be able to cope with certain things and he feels very real to me. I look forward to seeing what they do with him in the future now that he has all of his Asgardians back and knowing they're safe can leave to pursue more things in life
I've always loved Luke Skywalker my entire life and was almost even named after him because of what he mean to my family and how they hoped I would be, so watching him go out the way he did in TLJ honestly really made me cry because one of my childhood heroes is gone.
I'm glad it helped you. He actually has about 2% of the asgardians left so I wouldn't use "all" personally. :)
I don't consider Disney Canon to be star wars. Kelvin Startrek is clearly a different product with different characters who have different traits and personalities. Disney Star Wars is similarly- a different product that disavowed tons of canon material to make it's own new version of star wars. As such, it's no more canon to the real star wars than Kelvin Star trek is canon to thereal star trek.
And now it's known that "Prime" star trek isn't the original star trek either-- in fact, contractually, it has to be 25% different than the original star trek. They tried to sell STD as a TOS product but it's not. It's a new space drama portraying completely different themes with star trek IP pasted over it.
I made a decision that I won't buy these alternate dystopic modern versions of products which throw existing canon out the window.
Mac Mcleod I disagree with the Star Trek comparison. Star Trek completely rebooted itself while Star Wars kind of just reworked itself. It’s fine if you prefer the Legends canon to the new one, but I don’t think the comparison really works. That’s like saying the prequels aren’t the same Star Wars since they got rid of some comics people made prior to that.
I'm with you, yo boi crust! I felt it'd oddly comforting to see a hero struggle in a very VERY relatable way. Healing takes time, and he hasn't had his epic moment yet.
@@MisterGuy25 art is open to different people's interpretation and whether you're merely quibbling over a point or if you actually liked the new series then you have a right to your opinion.
I won't spend my money on Star Wars, Star Trek, or The Terminator franchises because all have betrayed the original underlying theme and become noticeably less hopeful and more dystopic. Terminator has the ability to disavowal Canon under the cover of time manipulation but it has still changed the basic message at the series.
Star Wars essentially throughout tons of Canon and as of now I don't consider it Star Wars anymore. I won't spend any money on it because it's not the latest version of the same product but is instead a completely new product. The fact they slapped the old name on it doesn't work for me. But if it works for you, that's cool.
Mac Mcleod That’s still not what I’m saying all I’m saying is that the comparison doesn’t work. It’s fine if you think the new movies don’t embody the core of Star Wars, I was just saying it’s a different situation to Star Trek
“I fundamentally disagree with everything you wrote about my character”. This is a quote from Mark Hamill himself and I have to agree with him and most of the fanbase. Its not that he was a terrible character in this movie, but it wasn’t believable a Luke Skywalker. This is the same person who wouldn’t give up on trying to redeem his father, Darth Fucking Vader, despite being told to by everyone it was impossible. That was his whole arc at the end of ROTJ. He gave into the darkside for a brief moment out of anger after hearing Vader threatening to do something Leia. He then ruthlessly goes after him in a sheer moment of rage and disarms him by literally cutting off his hand. Then he pauses after hearing Sidious laugh, telling him to kill his own father and seeing that his arm, like his own, was robotic. This perfectly reflects with the ESB moment where he he decapitates Vader in a vision only to see his own face under the mask. He sees himself on Vader and saw how easy it was to go down the path of the darkside. He himself had just stuck his toe in it for a few seconds and looking down at the beaten Darth Vader, he comes back to his senses and realizes he just reaffirmed his values through that fight. “I am a Jedi like my father before me” he says while showing mercy on Darth Vader because he still knows that there is good in him, to Sidious’ displeasure. His character would never have gone down that road in reality, as no matter what, he wouldn’t have tried to kill Kylo in the first place and even if he did, he wouldn’t have given up and stopped. He wouldn’t have just hidden away at the mere sight of his dead pupils. He would’ve done nothing but tried to stop him from going further down the darkside and make him try to come back. This is why TLJ Luke is not our Luke because “storys are like poems, they rhyme”, and this Luke doesn’t remind us of our optimistic farm boy from Tatooine
Couldn't have said it better.
Not to mention that the way Jake is set up in TLJ completely negates the ENTIRE macguffin plot of TFA. If he had gone to Ach Too to die, why would he leave a map to the place literally no one knows about so he could be found? What's the point?
R Thomas Thats actually something I didn’t realize but knew at the same time? Like I got that subconsciously but before you pointed that out that didn’t cross my mind. Plus why is it that he was “searching for the first Jedi Temple” but when we get there its seen as just an island? Its sad because you know we aren’t going to get an explanation as to what anything was there or how special it is. Why are we supposed to be ok with that?
@@zachtemoro2116 It's stuff like that that make me wonder how anyone could think TLJ was overall a good Star Wars film. It would've been a great film, and is a fine film, standing on its own. However, in the context of the greater Star Wars mythology, it just has so many blatant flaws and issues.
Now we get to ask ourselves questions like "if Force ghosts can manifest powers on the mortal plane like calling down a friggin lightning strike, how come Yoda and Obi-Wan help Luke fight Vader and/or the Emperor" and "how come they don't just ram a starfighter into the enemy flagship at hyperspace and win [insert space battle name here]?"
There is no longer consistency within the lore of the universe itself, and that's what really grinds my gears. Sure, Legends had inconsistencies and things later had to be retconned, but those were in books and games, and nowhere near the same scale as the inconsistencies presented IN A SAGA FILM. And to add insult to injury, the job of the Lucasfilm Story Group is to make sure these kinds of inconsistencies don't happen across their new canon, based on the lessons learned from Legends.
They canned a wonderful, still-thriving Expanded Universe in Legends for this train wreck that really by all accounts should have been (and had the potential to be) even better. But no. Instead, we get called misogynists and bigots and racists (and I'm African-American, mind you) for not liking the new canon characters. However, I am safe in the knowledge that I just dislike poorly written characters, because every time I bring up, for example, that most of my favorite Star Wars characters are in fact women, I can easily prove such people wrong.
R Thomas I agree with you on everything except fir the starfighter scene. Even though 2/3s of the movie had already gone by and I was already at the point where I was mad and upset, I distinctly remember seeing that scene and being like “HOLY FUCK THAT JUST HAPPENED AND IT WAS AWESOME”! Now looking back to that I still like it and I still think it was valid, however theres NO way it should’ve done that damage. It basically took out the entire fleet of the Empire in one hit which wouldn’t have happened in actuality. You have to remember that that star destroyer was a Dreadnaught and those things are HUGE. It was atleast 50 times bigger than the Resistance star destroyer, so when she went into hyperspeed, I am 100% on board with the Dreadnaught being taken out the way it was (not completely destroyed but damaged beyond compare with fire and the ship falling apart), but it should not have touched any other ship. The only other problem I had with that scene was that it was Holdo who did it. Nobody cared about her character and nobody liked her. She was there and she was actually annoying. The whole mutiny scene was valid because she was being dumb and didn’t tell people what the plan was, not even Poe. I remember hearing someone rant about this and complain there could’ve been a scene along the lines where she brings him aside and says “I can’t risk the First Order knowing of our actual plan. Right now we can only assume they were some how able to create something to track us through lightspeed, but I can not take put everyone endanger on an assumption. For all we know we could have a spy on our ship sending information on our location, so for the security and safety of our cause, I cannot say what we are doing, but please understand that I have a plan”. That would’ve been SO MUCH BETTER THAN what we got, but because they didn’t do that or come up with a more interesting plot for her, we had an uninteresting charcoal with no attachment to the audience do the coolest thing in the movie. Imagine if it was Poe who did it, someone we actually sort of cared about and the whole movie we got to be with him and have him grow as a character. For me, thats the only scene in the movie that works despite the whole fleet being destroyed and Holdo was the one who did it
@@zachtemoro2116 The first Jedi temple should be on Tython where the Order was created, but that is only going by Legends.
I dunno, he got his hammer which said he was still worthy. As for an actual action he does which shows him to be the hero, I think that's his journey with the guardians. See, it's interesting because he still wants to do right, but he's still wanting that ego, hence his argument with 'who the captain is' with Peter and wanting to be the one who did the snap. This vid feels a lil unearned.
I Do Monologues so its just like steve but worse? I guess thats why it was overshadowed by other characters? Also, i dont think being worthy = redemption, it was never said like that in the movie (i may be wrong though?)
I'd say the most redemptive thing Thor did was stand up to Thanos. You don't need him to talk to Thanos. To be completely honest, I don't think Thor even needs to be redeemed. Sure, he chilled out and played Fortnite for a few years while there was nothing going on post-snap, but right when they called on him, he agreed to do it.
Yeah, but Thanos is the cause of his downfall, so his completion of arc would be way more powerful if it involved Thanos.
They should've replaced captain marvel with Thor, and had him blow up the ship.
CornDawg I’ve always been confused why he didn’t destroy the ship, because he did that very thing in Infinity War.
@@brighambentley no... he didn't that is not a thing that happened
@@brighambentley Thor never destroyed Thanos's flagship in Infinity War. He did destroy a few dropships though.
Snehil Shrey
....
@Snehil Shrey you ok there pal?
"Luke, his arc is complete"
"Thor isn't the focus"
That's exactly it. This is not Thor's movie. Thor wasn't meant to be redeemed in Endgame and they slap you in the face with it when Tony doesn't let him use the Gauntlet.
But there should've at least been a pay off moment like Luke and Scarlet witch did. Also I'm pretty sure Endgame is mostly about the original avengers
@@techno639 "I AM still worthy!"
@@jrd33 I look at that as his middle stage while the first was being fat and playing fortnite. The third should've been a final payoff and blow at Thanos to complete his arc
@@techno639 That's fine if this was a Thor movie but it's an Avengers movie. I think it would have been a mistake to try and give another character a nice, tidy ending - Iron Man and Captain America are the main characters in this film, as they are leaving the franchise. Thor's arc is not yet finished, he will be in future movies.
@@jrd33 But I feel like this should've been an end to the arc he started in Ragnarok. He's one of the core main avengers and is part of the Marvel trinity he's VERY important to the story. Infinity war gave thor a beginning (losing everyone) a middle (making stormbreaker) and an end (the attempt and failure to kill thanos) In endgame, Thor only has a beginning middle and no end. The closest we got was him summoning his armor and weapons and saying "Let's kill him properly this time" which was a good moment but I feel like it wasn't enough there should've been a more emotional and impactful moment with him fighting thanos like the "bring me thanos" moment in Infinity War. I get that he's appearing in more movies like in Guardians 3 but that just further proves my point that Thor in Endgame is kinda incomplete and slightly less developed than the other characters in Endgame. I still love the movie but this was my biggest issue with it.
Thors redemption came at the end when he was willing to face his fear of Thanos. After his failure, he couldn't even think about Thanos. When they brought him up he quivered in fear. Even though his body wasn't the same as before he was still willing to go out there and fight for it all with everyone else. Even his physical condition wasn't enough to stop him from fighting. In infinity war he put stopping then it was solely on his shoulders. Throughout the entire movie he knew it was his responsibility to finish Thanos to get even for losing his best friend and brother. But in Endgame he realize that is going to take a team effort and he was man enough to let Cap use his hammer I'll be at his s"mall hammer"
Uh that wasn't fear it was pure rage.
His actual redemption came when he picked up mjolnir at Asgard. He stopped believing in himself after he failed to kill Thanos by not lopping off his head at the end of Infinity war and mjolnir showed that he was in fact still worthy despite his failure.
Next up: " How to properly develop a character into the dark side (Game of Thrones / Breaking Bad analysis)"?
Goddamn, if Schaff could analyze Breaking Bad, it would be a dream come true
Error 404
Schfrillas talking good about The Last Jedi
@Bongo Kongo no, it didn't kill innocent people, it was just badly directed.
@@imperialspecialforce5769
This might be a reach but... this could have possibly been a strange thing called a "joke"
@@MishKoz whammo blamo I think you got hit with a double joke, aka a joke built on top of another joke
Bongo Kongo It wasn’t as bad as any of those, but it was pretty bad.
@Bongo Kongo It didn't kill people but it killed people's souls.
Thor did want to be the one to snap the guantlet, but everyone else was against it because he still doesn't seem super mentally stable. The moment with his mother and having the hammer only acts as a band aid. It's not ideal or satisfying, but it still makes sense in the context of Thor's setup
Yeah, maybe his comedic act is actually the way he hides his pain. So he's using a lot of jokes and stuff to cure the pain and forget the trauma he experienced.
@@poweroffriendship2.0 Hide the Pain Thorie.
@@Anna-tk7ui No. He actually hides his pain when it comes to losing everything. His family, his home, his brother, his girlfriend, and he even gets killed almost by a purple grape.
Why does your comment say 4 days ago this video was just uploaded
ShoKWaiV87 patreon lol
The fact that Endgame actually predicted that…
A) OG Fortnite would come back
B) That Fortnite would still somehow be popular
Thor's redemption moments:
1) Lifting Mjolnir in 2013 Asgard.
2) Offering to snap his fingers.
3) Helping the team in the big battle.
4) I'm sure Guardians 3 and Thor 4 will have more.
yea, he kinda just skimmed over that
Ermis Grivas also giving away his kingdom
@@thedimondtimbs7297 Specifically skipping over widely known portions of movies to make your point seem more solid? I smell cinimasins in here..
2)It was made as a joke
3) Everybody helped
But why did he take his hammer
6:46 Farquad: _Uggh, it's disgusting!_
Yoda: *No U.*
Farquad: *_AAAAGH!_*
Jesus A. Adorno I fucking love it too
I love that!!
It should be " you, no"
@@codycarney2311 nah, sadly talk like that, yoda does not. Inconsistent his speech is however.
But jimbo
He gets to dance to awesome mix vol 3
10/10
hes gonna default dance on vol 3
Nobody:
Everybody: Avenger bad? No, Avenger good. Star War bad. Not Avenger.
I know,we seem to think that one film can be good because of other good films in the franchise when there not but if that’s the case with avengers why not star wars
@@Mirrorcomics24 or maybe, just maybe, they are actually making good points defending a movie they really love.
BUt nO AvEnGees BaD Cus ItS PoPULaR
@@dyland1842 true,people should share there opinions but there are toxic people who do t make good points and think one film is good because the franchise had other good films
I actually liked the Star Wars sequels tbh
I see what you did there.
Luke lifting his X-Wing from the water would've been a beautiful callback to an iconic scene from Empire Strikes Back.
Even though I like the last Jedi I gotta agree that would've been a nice moment.
but if that happened all the fanboys would freak out about how the x-wing shouldn't work anymore kind of like how they freak out about everything else that happens
@@dylanmcnab2980 yea you're probably right
No, the sequels are already way to similar to the original trilogy, the whole thing is a soft reboot with fancier cgi and less interesting characters. The last thing the sequels need is even more fan service.
I thought that this would have happened
I feel like Thor's redemption is in him picking up his own hammer. I think as audience members, we are meant to be against Thor - he failed at literally everything he was going to do. He isn't our worthy hero anymore, and he has just lost the plot and reason to be THAT hero.
Russo's could have 100% done something different with his redemption but he's got more movies, so they couldn't send him off with a powerful redemption like Cap or Iron Man.
It can be said that disney's path of character redemption was..
*A soul for a soul.*
FEGELEIN GET UR ASS IN TH BUNKER
When Thor summoned Mjolnir and said “I’m still worthy!” That gave me goosebumps and made me tear up a little
Yeah...
Thors arc is not finished. We'll definitely see him again in Gotg 3.
Yeah, but Thanos is the cause of his downfall, so his completion of arc would be way more powerful if it involved Thanos. That is in Guardians 3.
@@misterjr193 Yes and no, Thors issue is getting over the fact that he can lose
Let me say this:
Drax didn’t get his revenge ;(
I kinda wish Drax or Nebula both got there revenge of Thanos instead of him being dusted, I would have preferred that much more
@@GasolineProductions Exactly
Perhaps revenge would neither solve Drax's problems nor get him closure...
Side note, same goes for Thor, imo...
While I agree with all the points you made about Thor in Endgame, I think there's a good chance that he'll get a more complete and satisfying end to his arch within the final two films of his contract. While initially I felt his arch is incredibly cheap and unsatisfactory, I trust the Russo brothers and James Gunn with his character
and now taika! he'll be directing thor 4 :D
@@andrugarrote He made Ragnarok, right? Oh, this is going to be good!
Or maybe, the Endgame wasnt Thor's endgame. He isn't finished.
Jumped off a “family friendly” site for this
Club Penguin?
What did it cost?
@@_GuiltyGhost why would you bring up such a painful memory?
@@keicorsac great memories with a sad ending
@@chai_lack1397 My groceries.
I have similar sentiments in regard to Star Lord. After losing Gamora and then being responsible for not getting the gauntlet off Thanos, I was hoping he would at least have a small scene of redemption. But then in the two scenes where he's a main focus he winds up just being pointed and laughed at. Here's hoping he gets a redemption in Guardians 3
well he's an idiot tho.... and he had no idea that wasn't the real Gamora at first so he was just happy
Wow it's almost like both Thor and Peter both have a more exclusive film coming out where they can both explore their similar grief and failure and finally gain common ground, remember how we had to wait for Ironman 3 to see how disturbed Tony was and then had to wait again to see how it truly played out in Avengers 2, I mean it's almost as if they set up story lines to be resolved in other movies.
@@alessandroconti380 She is the real Gamora just not the one he knew
I feel the reason Thor doesn’t have the moment of true redemption is because his character isn’t done yet. I’m guessing whatever he does as a part of the AsGuardians of the galaxy will feature more character growth until his eventual send off probably in a feature avengers movie which will likely have him be the one who saves the day.
Yeah, but Thanos is the cause of his downfall, so his completion of arc would be way more powerful if it involved Thanos. That is in Guardians 3.
Schaff: puts the x in front of marvel instead of last jedi
Me: *surprised Pikachu expression*
Good video schaff
Thanos didn’t break Thor, Fortnite did... like all of us for it still being relevant.
You're forgetting one thing though Schaffrillas.
"No ones ever really gone..."
you kinda just skimmed over how Thor was doughtfull about himself when he tried to get the mjoler and the pure joy of him saying "i'm still worthy"
Why would he discuss it? It was a lazy and forced scene. The point he’s making is that he had no real endgame so any redemption that the movie put on him didn’t seem rewarding or refreshing. The scene left more questions than answers: what exactly did thor do to deserve the worthiness?
@@bimboification its not exactly what thor did but its more of the fact that despite thor's depression and low self esteem, he is still a noble good man capable of doing good things.
Mjolnir
communist mothra exactly. I would much rather have a scene where he finds -miljor- -mjoleer- hammer and looks at it in fear, before picking it up with hesitation, then having the worthy sentence. It would at least be a little more satisfying than "oh I remember that I had a hammer let me call it yoink, yay I'm worthy I'm out fuckerz".
@@bimboification The entire "worthy of Mjollnir" plot device is bullshit anyway. Unless Asgard has some really fucked up morals, Cap should have been the worthy one if any one of the Avengers. Or Vision perhaps. Not Thor, who, while fairly noble and virtuous, was far from morally perfect, as evidenced by his behavior in his first movie. And yes, both Vision and Cap do at some point get the worthy status, and Thor does lose it in the first movie, but it is still bullshit since it should be the other way around if morals, integrity, virtue, courage etc. etc. are the issue here.
1:41
Oh boy, I have interesting news from the future
I know most people hated Luke in TLJ. But he was probably my favorite thing in the movie.
Him randomly disappearing after not doing anything cool at the end of the movie is what made me realise I hated it
he didnt dissapear he commited suicide he wasnt killed by kylo luke didnt become a hero he became a coward willing to let all he cares about die so he could have "peace" this so called revelation that luke was more mature is utter hogwash. TLJ is an insult to movies period even The Room was better written.
Please elaborate, because the vast majority of us saw Luke's character get taken out back and assassinated live on screen.
Here's the thing though. If Rian would just completely cut out the "milking scene" and the "lightsaber toss" scene, rewrite some of his dialogue, rewrite Luke's "fall" in the flashbacks in a lengthier and more convincing manner, keep his "rise back to greatness," and make it more convincing that what he did on Crait would kill him instead of randomly shoving it in the scene, he would be a great character. From my point of view, that's not a whole lot to change.
@@joeblazer3429 Not doing anything cool? HE PROJECTED HIMSELF ACROSS THE ENTIRE FUCKING GALAXY AND BLUFFED THE FIRST ORDER LONG ENOUGH FOR THE REMNANTS OF THE RESISTANCE TO ESCAPE. He pulled a Tassadar vs Kerrigan move on Kylo. That's pretty fucking rad if you ask me.
All right what I really liked about Luke's death scene was him imagining the two suns with binary sunset playing. It's an almost perfect comparison to him being dropped off with the Lars' from revenge of the sith, from the lighting, to the camera angle to the score. It's so good
Especially the part where he ragdolls and then disappears.
Nice themes :)
when i looked at the thumbnail i automatically saw the tick and cross the other way around and was really confused about the video
"His whole ship is underwater!"
Rise of Skywalker: imma pretend I didn't see that
Looking forward to that Lilo & Stitch analysis next week
not bad (although i think the peter b in spiderverse was the best example of both of these examples)
Beter barker
Mean I think like the movie like this
Infinity war: Thor and Tony movies
Endgame: Steve and Tony movies
Infinity War was more of a Thanos movie in my opinion
@@Bohtar yeah infinity war was but if it had to resemble the heroes, it was a foremost Tony movie just like endgame and a thor movie
Infinity war: Thor and Thanos
Endgame : Steve and Tony
@@egghidmytrix infinity war was Tony too
Triple D idk, I just feel like when talking about the two main plot threads in infinity war they are thanos’ story and Thor’s story because there’s more personal tension there. Thanos and tony didn’t have any interaction before the fight on titan, thanos killing half of Asgard put a more dramatic hero-villain relationship then thanos had with tony. I mean tony’s story is a close third though.
I got this recommended and was very confused when he mentioned 2023. It took me a moment lol.
I think Thor’s moment of redemption was when he was still worthy of Mjolnir, that might’ve been the moment he realized he is still the mighty thor he once was .
Wait a video you made that is positive towards the last Jedi what is this sorcery
it's refreshing especially since we had so many negative videos about Last Jedi like wtf
This is heresy!
RafaelDB because the last Jedi is a shit film that doesn’t deserve to be called Star Wars?
Niem Numble pie Seriously, he’s obviously a shill for Disney and not a trustworthy film critic and is definitely not a Real Star Wars Fan (TM).
In all seriousness, as someone who enjoyed The Last Jedi and enjoyed all the Star Wars films for a decade before that movie, it’s nice to see someone make a video that says even one positive thing about it instead of acting like the movie is a cancer on our society.
Volume 99 schaffrillis is rian Johnson now that’s a subversive expectation
This video fails because: It assumes that Endgame is the end for Thor's character. When he has Guardians and Thor 4 to finish his character arc and redeem himself.
The problem lies not in Endgame not being the end for Thor's character, it's in the pale payoff for Thor's journey in Endgame. Thor's journey in Endgame started at the end of Infinity war, where Thor had a big part in not being able to stop Thanos. Then we see him desperately try to redeem himself by killing Thanos but failing due to the destruction of the stones. After that we see a muddled and destroyed Thor, in which he loses his body, hides from his responsibility and shrieks at the mention of his failure. In infinity war we can see Thor still carries the burdens from his previous journeys, the lost of his father, his mother and his homeland, but infinity war brings a conclusion for Thor's arc in that movie. We saw him fail and we felt that. And his failure was his conclusion in infinity war. In Endgame, he doesn't get a satisfying conclusion. He doesn't get a moment where he gets a payoff in yelling against Thanos, he doesn't get a moment to properly display his anger at his failure by defeating that failure. Thor is pushed so far back in Endgame but we don't feel his bounceback, we don't feel him fighting against his failure in a movie where everyone of the original Avengers had to display their last ditch effort in fixing their failure. Endgame has a lot of faults and a lot of problems. I think the dissatisfying conclusion for Thor is one of them. You don't need to finish his character arc to give a satisfying conclusion, you just need to finish his journey in this movie.
@@tommydoez Endgame is still better than The Last Jedi, though.
@@michaelbourret339 well duh. Even if one good thing a bad movie does defeats a bad thing a good movie does doesn't mean the bad movie isn't bad
@@tommydoez It's a flaw, to be correct.
Many movies, especially good ones, have flaws. How about the MCU's rife issue with mediocre villains?
Thor both proves he's still worthy with Mjolnir (not just talking to his mom), and facing Thanos at all is a mighty achievement. When it's so set up that he's terrified of him, simply taking the field at all is monumental. "Let's kill him properly this time" both admits he failed alone and that he needs to accept the help of others. It is, in my opinion, a masterful study of both how depression and PTSD works and how others react to depression to the point that I'm convinced that a depressed person wrote it. I cannot count the amount of people who have made fat jokes or commented on my weight when I put on that same stomach Thor has from stress eating and trying to drink his issues away. He wasn't there for everyone to understand, because when he was on screen I felt like I was watching myself in a movie and that really smacked me in the head.
Even the "helping for beer" thing. He needed in his own mind a reason beyond being helpful, cause he doesn't do that anymore. And his friends provided a flimsy, shitty reason that he could grab and say to himself "Yes well I'm just in it for the beer, when that's gone I am too". However, then he sees Thanos. That fucking scene. When he "becomes" Thor again and all of his gear gets put back on, he stays fat. He can't magically fix depression despite his power. He can't suddenly undo everything he did to himself, and he has to live with it. And then he goes to war with perhaps the one person in the universe he truly fears, because he knows he has to. Many would break or balk at the idea of doing such a thing, but it shows how he has grown from someone who can't even hear the name without breaking down, to being ready to face Thanos. Thanos is more of an allegory for his own mental struggle than a for for the first part of that fight. When Thor is alone, Thanos is slowly but surely beating him. When Thor's friends join, they turn the tide. In my opinion it illustrates how defeating depression while isolated is nigh impossible, and can only be done with the help of the people around you.
EXACTLY! And I feel like his actual redemption of sorts will be in his new movie with the Guardians. He's faced his biggest fear and helped kill it. Now that Thanos is gone, and the mistake Thor made is fixed, I feel like he can finally heal. And his arc is really fitting with the Guardians. 1. Because the Guardians focus o more realistic struggles like abandonment issues, abuse (poor Gamora also R.I.P. Gamora), hate, vengeance, realistic relationships, depression and anger issues. Thor had like 3 or 4 of those at one point but he has depression. And 2. Thor just has good chemistry with the guardians and is more laid back like them. Movie wise (Especially Ragnorock or however you spell it), and character wise. I think the part that Sch- I cannot spell that. The part that the dude in the video misunderstood, is that he thought that Endgame was Thor's full redemption. Which it's clearly not. But he also didn't fully understand (I think) that Thor's depression and PTSD was that bad. I end my case. For now.