There was something sublime in how at the same time the highest levels of Imperial intelligence were hyper-focused on finding Cassian Andor, the Empire’s own massive bureaucracy blinded them to the fact that they actually already had him in an Imperial prison the whole time.
Yeah given how they were falsifying crimes to acquire slave labour, they evidently didn't want anyone looking at those books. Combine that with Cassian using a fake name and the empire is rendered incapable of finding someone who is literally in their custody. Any of those other prisoners could have used a fake name as they were arrested and therefore might not even have a criminal record in empire controlled systems upon escaping.
To be fair to the Empire, he was admitted under his fake name Keef Gergo. There was no "Cassian Andor" in an Imperial prison record at the time he was in Narkina 5. But I do like the idea and it's one generally explored in the rest of the show.
I think it’s amazing how they took this one off character from Rogue One and turned him into one of the compelling, tragic and incredible heroes and characters from the Star Wars universe. The arc Cassian goes through from indifferent criminal to the rebel that gives his life to break the Death Star is truly heartbreaking but also shows what it means to be a rebel. It means you sacrifice everything you are and everything you have for a sunrise you’re never see as Luthen puts it.
I still think Andor is a bland character and the original character they cut into like 7 pieces for Rogue One, Kyle Katarn, is way better. Luthen was great on the other hand.
Couldn't disagree more. Andor is not a hero in his own series, he's degenerate rat that is forced into position of no return against his will again and again untill he snaps and go full rebel. The very prison arc exists because Andor was dumb enough to attrct attention despite escaping law for years at that point.. Well, if by escaping you can call him throwing constant amount of his collegause under the bus to save his skin like a worthless pile of shit he is... What does he do to Kino when such says at the end part of their escape that he cannot swim? Abandon such cause he's of no use at that point.
@@dimas3829 Some of your word choices feel kind of loaded, like "degenerate rat", "piece of sh*t" and your insinuation that he was essentially looking for trouble by walking along a beach on Niamos, but I'm not going to go there... I can respect that you hold an opinion while completely disagreeing with it. Also, Cassian got knocked off the edge of the platform right after Kino revealed that he couldn't swim... it was involuntary. You really seem dead set on making him out to be a man of absolutely no worth and no character. I mean, he shot and killed Skeen because he thought the man was morally bankrupt. Cassian ensured the remainder of his colleagues would get their fair portion of the heist money. He befriended Melshi in prison and worked with him again in Rogue One. He rescued his lifelong friend Bix from ISB custody. There are more examples of his evolving character arc, but I'm guessing you couldn't care less.
Thats coz Andor did not try to be Star Wars, or it might end up like post-OT Stars Wars (apart from Rogue One & TLJ).... and yes that includes the unWatchable PT LMFAO
@@chasx7062 you mean because it didn't try to the be Disney Star Wars, Andor, (and Rogue One) was perfectly in line with the feel of A New Hope And Empire Strikes Back.
Absolutely. Ahsoka is bad on its own, but when compared to Andor, it's barely even worth mentioning. The difference between the two shows is night and day.
Andor had to be some happy accident because Ahsoka and Mando Season 3 follow the status quo of forcing characters into situations due to the sheer stupidity in the preamble set up, that was seen from TLJ. Every choice the characters make in Andor logically lead to the next section of the story without issue.
It learned only one lesson - put Mon Mothma in it (as played by Genevieve) She's made Mon Mothma her own - I'm thrilled for her, after ALL of her scenes were cut from Revenge of the Sith Now - thanks to Andor - we got to see how amazing a character she is; and so she's done voice-overs for some of the animated series and shows up in Ashoka (which is apparently a load of rubbish - except for including the best Mon Mothma ever!)
A big reveal of Kino Loy's (Andy Serkis) motivations come with the "I can't swim" line. They all saw the water on the way in, escape was always impossible for Kino. His actions at the end were for everyone else, not himself.
The prison arc was definitely my favorite out or Andor. I had a big smile on my face over the fact that they were clearly taking visual as well as narrative cues from THX 1138. In a world of memberberries it was refreshing to see a show take inspiration from something George Lucas made with a sense of purpose rather than to exploit nostalgia.
I truly believe Andor is the piece of media that pays more respect and elevates the work of Lucas and the people involved in the OT. Andor is just amazing by it self but goes even further to give even more weight to origins of the franchise.
Luthen is a best character in Andor for me. He is an epitome of a “rebel scum”. Revolution is not a dinner party or a beautiful heroic scenery of good vs evil. Most of the time it’s a lesser vs a greater of two evils (and sometimes the revolutionary government ended up being the greater evil themselves) and Luthen had to make difficult and sometimes unethical decisions in order to achieve victory (for example, sending a guy to spy in the empire government even though that guy didn’t want to or sacrificing his own team to fool the empire into thinking that he’s not steps ahead of them). And in order to achieve the victory, he had to be 100% committed to the cause that he had to sacrifice his personal life or a chance to have a meaningful relationship with anyone. Every interaction he had was superficial and he had to be on guard all the time because he will never know when he will be betrayed or when he’s gonna betray someone. Luke, Leia and Han being the “heroes” of the rebels seem like an afterthought if we look in a grand scheme of things. And let’s face it, the rebels were lucky that Luke somehow had the force to control the laser that destroyed the death star. Luthen and Saw and Cassian and The Rogue One group did most of the hard work. These antiheroes walked so that the original trilogy heroes could run.
This is one of the things I love the most(among so many) of Andor, it elevates the OT even higher, Andor could have been content to just be a good series on its own, but it just go extremely far ahead and boost the OT over the stars. Now I cant see the OT the same way, now every pilot on a X Wing that die in that trench covering Luke has a tremendous weight
The contrast between Andor and the OT is part of the point. Luthen works in the grime and shadows doing what realistically needs to be done for revolution. For real change. Provoking the empire to commit atrocities for his own goals. Using and manipulating his own people. Betraying the morals of the side he fights for to give them a chance. And the only way to take advantage of that chance is to always have hope. You have to believe there's a light at the end and keep pushing for it or you may never reach it. All of Luthen's work building up the rebellion means nothing without Luke to fire the torpedoes and turn Vader. And Luke never gets the chance without Luthen's effort and sacrifice. Realists, idealists, heroes, antiheroes. Rebellions need all of it.
"A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another." - Mao Zedong
Luthen isn't even really an anti-hero. He's almost more of an anti-villain. He is well aware that much of what he is doing is objectively evil, but he's doing it so that eventually the greater evil-the Empire-might be brought down. He knows that in situations like this, someone needs to do the dirty work, so he's going to do that to keep others from having to.
Proton Torpedos are not 'lasers'. They are actual physical torpedoes with an actual physical casing. Not every weapon in Star Wars is an energy weapon. Rockets and missiles are still used. I will agree with the rest of the sentiment that not every Rebel has to be a 'good guy' just as not every Stormtrooper was a 'bad guy'. Andor did a proper job with that. I will disagree that the Heroes of the Rebellion 'did nothing'. Remember that one of the key tenets of the OT was that 'Evil wins only if Good stands by and does nothing.' And yes, remember the OT was written during an era where Black/White morality was more widespread to drive that point home.
Love Andor that it shows how messy and complex a revolution/ war really is. It makes the plot more realistic than those of good guys vs bad guys kind of war like mainstream action movies (and that includes the original trilogy as well).
I still can't get over just how horrifying the prison arc in Andor was. The best way I can describe the feeling I got is to say it was like a movie about a person being kidnapped and held in someone's basement, but on a larger scale. Everyone knows how wrong it is and why the Empire's doing it, but they're too terrified to do anything about it and go along with it. This show in general, but specifically this arc, is probably the only time I ever felt and understood just how legitimately evil the Empire is and why it was important they were stopped.
Oh, for a moment I thought by “horrifying” you meant to say “how shitty that arc was and was such a dumpster fire” but as I read on I realized you were praising this hunk of garbage. Sorry if I actually thought you had good taste.
To be completely honest Andor was definitely my favorite TV show of 2022, practically everything about it is so compelling and well crafted that it gave us a story that left my jaw on the floor on many occasions. 10/10 season imo and I hope they can nail S2 as well.
Andor is an even smarter show than you realise. The continuity is stellar. Before Andor shoots the traitor, you can see him put a hand behind his back when he starts to suspect him, which is where he keeps his blaster. In the first episode when hes being held up, he only attacks when he has vidually confirmed how many people there are AND how many guns they have between them, and he acts on the information THAT HE HAS SEEN WITH HIS OWN EYES (he goes for the guy he DOESNT KNOW if they have a gun or not because he couldnt be sure if he was armed) Also, the few times the Imperials get held up, they seem GENUINELY shocked, because this is before the rise of the rebels, they are NOT PREPARED for even the notion that anyone would try to oppose them.
Its not even about logical consistency per-say but maintaining the verisimilitude well enough to suspend the audience's disbelief. Characters can say or do things that are illogical but if them doing so has in keeping with that character's behavior as established in the story to that point. That's why what they did with Luke in TLJ didn't work for so many people because we saw him try to redeem his literally genocidal abusive father even after torture and threat of death, he does crack and lash out at Vader but only after being literally assaulted and mentally deconstructed and manipulated by Vader and the Emperor for hours, him pulling out and igniting his lightsaber in contemplation of killing his troubled nephew (who we never get any insight into why he was troubled 🙄 ) is just not in Luke's character and it very obvious Rian Johnson wrote Luke like that for the sake the theme he was trying to convey but he didn't earn that character moment. He took the quick and easy path of a lazy writing and doing so only served to highlight how much better the very same theme about learning from failure was better realized and conveyed between TESB and ROTJ.
The best part about Andor was seeing how all the arcs ended up being connected. The way its all tied together was so brilliant. Some of it was in your face, some of it was subtle, but everything gets sown together where at the end you start putting the pieces together. How Aldhani led to the PORD, and how the tightened grip led to the riot on Ferrix. There is so much attention to detail. So much care and love out into it. So much effort. You can tell that it wasn't a first draft. You can tell that in the writers room, there was a discussion on how to tell these, at the time, seemingly separate stories, and wind them together into somthing truly special. Andor significantly raised the bar for what we should expect from Star Wars. We need more complex and mature stories that are more than just "bad guy bad, good guy good"
I swear when I first watched andor, I was literally stunned. The way he stealthed around all those guards at first had me on the edge of my seat. Prison arc was great and I wish it was longer purely cause I loved it so much and I NEED THE NEXT SEASON! ANDOR PLS 🤣
I agree that there is a certain objectivity to critisizing art, but there is also a difference between liking bad art and DEFENDING bad art. I don't mind if someone likes bad art despite it's flaws and acknowledge the flaws, but insisting something bad is actually good is what really grinds my gears.
@@joycongod4831 That depends on what you define as art. Anything can be "art" in someones eyes even if it isn't intended to be art. Like a tree or a car. So from that perspective you're right. But from the perspective that art is something someone makes put of love, care and passion then there is bad art. Like the star wars suquels who were made only with intent to make money. They weren't made with love, care and passion, they were made with laziness, greed and deception. Therefore it is bad art. Again, you can argue that bad art is great art on a different level because it represents humam flaw and greed and yada yada yada, but that's not the argument here.
@joycongod4831 Art is both subjective and objective. Between two pieces of similar quality, the judges individual taste and interpretation will decide which is preferred. However in cases where there is a great disparity in quality, one can find universal opinions. If you are offered two meals by chefs, and one meal is undercooked and gives you food poisoning, then it is objectively inferior to the other meal regardless of one’s own personal taste.
Andor is rich with plot and especially character. I remember watching the first fight with the two guards and the use of non verbal communication and each character acting according to their own goals as the second guard realizes andor will kill him to cover up the death of the first guard and then turned to my family and said " they are actually telling a story this time." Then proceeded to binge the show and after I was done just feeling content and satiated a feeling I hadn't gotten from many shows in 5 years especially star wars. That sense that everything had a proper set up and pay off that the emotional scenes were justified, the characters developed properly and behaved consistently and the plot was coherent. Unlike the junk food that is Mandalorian and the sheer trash that was Obi Wan I felt like my entertainment pallet was pleased I was eating right again. House of The Dragon had a similar effect.
@@thefuriousfatty2297maybe he is talking of Mando S3 wich was horrible bad. Mando S1 was very good, it has not the complexity of the Andor wirting but it was consistent and logic, hell Mando S1 and Andor are the very proof you can have both type of shows, one for more older audiences and one for more young ones, but each of them with consistency and care.
The problems with the TLJ plot are more than just one thing. The entire premise of the thing is basically plot holes from beginning to end. And it isn't to make it more interesting, it is to make it a boring, tedious slow-motion chase. Let us see, just to start: 1. Why do they think the First Order have a new device to track them through space instead of just a tracking device planted on one of the ships? 2. Why don't they just split up? If it is one tracking device it can't track them all at once. 3. Why don't they jump to a world with reinforcements? 4. How can they suddenly only have fuel for one more jump, with all the ships at once? It is an unbelievable coincidence. 5. How can all the ships have the same maximum speed? 6. The First Order wouldn't just pull back their fighters. And why would the fighters have a different maximum speed to everything else?
@insane_troll It screams of a first draft and Rian Johnson having a case of Dunning Krueger. Lucas did the same thing with the Phantom Menance. Any writer worth their salt knows the first draft is there as a base. It’s never perfect and revisions and redrafts matter during the process to get the idea as close as possible. Ignoring how the sequels has no plan, what Rian did was horrendously irresponsible in not watching TFA and having complete control. Contrast this movie to something like Puss N Boots the Last Wish or even Arcane. The scripts for those pieces took time. Arcane they spent three years( six in total. Half for the animation; the other for the writing) and it shows. Quality comes from diligence, drive and a willingness to question everything and make what you do count. Rian didn’t do that. He was too much in his bubble and worse wanted folks to be divided. Woefully irresponsible for a tentpole franchise.
@@Avarn388 the difference between a good writer and a bad writer is confidence. the bad writer has too much of it, the good writer not enough. Which is why the good writers redraft constantly and obsess over the details, and Rian Johnson is giddy about how he just ran with his first draft....
7. If the speed of the Resistance fleet is limited, why didn't the First Order just surround them with all the Star Destroyers they have and turn them into Swiss space Cheese?
Why don't the rebels just take one of those frigates that dies doing nothing and have it hyperdrive ram that mega Star Destroyer thing. Why don't the Empi.. I mean the First Order do the same with some smaller ships. Why don't they build missiles that have hyperdrives? Why?
@@peterkrochmalni673well, it is a good episode. Well directed and wrote. I think there are a lot of prejudices about Andor for (maybe) being a spin-off from a spin-off, or just ‘cause it’s an Star Wars show. And the true is, Andor it is very outstanding in a lot of aspects.
What a relief! I just watched episode three of Ahsoka, and...well... what the fuck did I just watch?!? I'm seeing people praising it and giving it a 9 or 10. Wha?!?? Remember, those are the people who didn't care for Andor and claimed that it was "boring" or "didn't feel like Star Wars." Ugh.... The brilliance of Andor deserves recognition. Thanks for the video, I loved it!
Is really infuriating, this "so called fans" are the ones that call the masterpiece of Tony Gilroy and his team boring and garbage. Andor was slow burn precisely beacause all the worldbuilding and character build up that make. You cant just see Andor with the brain off or half on, you have to see with all turned at maximum, paying attention to every piece of the beautiful dialogue. Just the dialogue alone and the iterations of the characters made the plot move, in Ahsoka nothing advances, is just very basic almost not functional dialogue where all the characters are this weird stoic personality
I enjoy both shows. Obviously, believe that Andor is far superior to anything else Disney has put out, but I can still find enjoyment in their different shows.
Don't stress it these 'fans' are the same ones who were noisy about how good TLJ was, and then years pass and they have to admit they were wrong when public sentiment and the echo chamber that is thier social media runs out. Not many people are arguing TLJ to the end nowadays, most people just say 'yeah it sucked but I enjoyed it'. Longevity matters. These shows are fleeting.
Andor is nearly perfect television. The new heights it brings to Star Wars only makes the recent crap look even more absurdly bad because we know how good Star Wars can still be.
250 millions on budget put to good use and on top of all that money insane levels of passion, creativity and care. Tony and his team get the most out of every coin. I can only hope that the initial low viewrship dosent stop S2 to reach the same level of S1 or fly even higher
Themes mean nothing if they are not put on top solid plot as the foundation. "Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love" means nothing when put right next to a scene of the First Order blowing up the gate of the base on Crait. Anti-animal abuse as a theme rings hollow next to child slavery that our "hero" characters neglected. Shades of gray in morality means nothing right after you are presented with the most unambiguously evil faction in Star Wars - rich war profiteers. Resistance to the authority of tyranny means nothing when our hero character is compelled to submit to and follow orders of a different authority figure. "Failure is the greatest teacher" means nothing when Luke Skywalker later fails to learn from his mistake to initiate violence against his nephew (which drove Ben Solo to the dark side to begin with) and continues to provoke and antagonize Kylo in the last moments of his (Luke's) life.
This is probably the best breakdown I’ve seen of what was wrong with The Last Jedi. Personally I have always defended the movie and Rian Johnson, despite some very obvious problems that can’t be ignored I respected the direction he tried to push Star Wars in. It was a poorly constructed shoddy prototype for what Andor has succeeded at. Maybe we wouldn’t have gotten Andor without that movie existing. Regardless Andor is the best Star Wars media I’ve ever seen, I really hope they can recognize that more like this would be very welcome to fans
The last bit is the worst. Why doesn't Luke say "there's good in you, Kylo" at the end? He just seems to want to troll him then disappear. Not Luke at all. Horrible characterization
The best thing about Andor (and the first season of the Mandalorian) is that no homework is necessary to understand what you are watching. Even if you have never seen ANY Star Wars content before watching the series made sense. Not so with Ahsoka, the Book of Boba Fett, Kenobi or the third season of Mando.
What homework would Book of Boba need? He's completely different from all prior Boba Fett appearances... It's like studying from math, and getting literature exam. Neither Kenobi requires any homeworks from you, I don't understand what you're talking about??? Maybe Mando Season 3 does somewhat
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о What!? Is this a freaking joke!? You HAVE to know who the hell obi wan kenobi is in the first place! You also need to know that Anakin Skywalker is Darth Vader and he attacked the Jedi Temple. You need to know that Leia is Anakin and Padme's daughter. You also have to know that Anakin and Obi-Wan have fought against each other in the past before Obi-wan has a Rematch with Anakin(vader) in episode 6. There's so much freaking homework that needs to be done for someone who did NOT watch star wars. Also you kidding me? No homework for Boba Fett? The Mandalorian literally appaears mid-season and they make references to season 1 of the mandalorian! If you don't know that, you'll be lost! You're a fool
@@nonbinarygenderqueerhomosa8820 watching previous movies and shows is not homework... That's just basic Star Wars??? Mando and Ahsoka are the shows that need homework because you have to watch multiple seasons of animated shows... Wtf is the fandom today if they don't know who Vader is? He's a cultural icon, even people who didn't watch Star Wars know who Vader is. Are you joking?
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о You contradict your own statements. "watching previous movies and shows is not homework" "the shows that need homework because you have to watch multiple seasons of animated shows" Pick one. It doesn't matter if someone is a cultural Icon. People who have not seen the prequels will be confused and will not properly understand the meaning of the fight.
Can we just give Toby Haynes and Tony Gilroy a Star Wars movie already? Let them come up with their own premise in some distant point in time in the galaxy. Please let good writers write Star Wars again.
@@aquapendulumHe didn’t have much of a choice. He tried at first to continue but the British joined the strike and then forced him to join it or face the consequences.
@@lembitmoislane. I think he made some declarations that before the Strike he had finished the Andor S2 sricpt and production was almost complete, is this correct? In any case am dying to see the S2 of Andor, I just cant wait.
@@danyknight9107 Yes he said that but the filming wasn't done and it's possible that while filming they wanted to improve some things in the writing. So now everything in that show has been halted.
I don't think that's the solution. I think there are a lot of good writers who don't want to work with Lucasfilm since it's just not a fun place to work anymore. They can't write Star Wars forever, they already said they don't want to. Proper change needs to happen for Star Wars to have a future.
That arc in Andor is legit one of the best things Star Wars has ever produced, and one of the most effective depictions of the Empire and why people even care about rebelling in the first place. So wild to me that so many longtime Star Wars fans apparently haven’t watched it or did watch and didn’t like it, because no lightsabers I guess 🤷🏼♂️. I’ve even seen ppl say they didn’t like it because what they like about Star Wars is the poorly written, cheesy stuff.
I was reluctant at first to watching andor, since I thought "how good can it be. It's just going to be the same star wars show like the others". I'm so glad that I gave it a chance. I never would've guessed that star wars, especially in their state now could produce something as masterful as Andor. I love it when shows or movies focus more on the characters rather than the plot. I mean we all know what will happen to andor or the galaxy, yet we are still on the edge of our seat while watching this show. Every character is so interesting, even though how small their role is. My favourite is kino, and I hope I'll get to see him in the next season.
God no, please, I don't ever want to see Kino again. I love the ambiguity of whether he survived and made it out or not. That last scene with him and Cassian was perfect and I feel like exploring his fate in any way after that would completely ruin it.
while I don't hate TLJ, and I do like what it tries to do. I MUCH MUCH prefer Andor's level of writing, Themes, cinematography. Thats its hard for me to look at any star wars project the same again. Conclusion: Andor is GOOD.
Now that I'm thinking about it, it's a really cool choice to have the prison cells be open, instead of having a locked door. Physically the inmate can exit the cell, but fear of punishment via the floor prevents them. The floor is physically there of course, but the open cells really display the theme that the inmates are more trapped by their own fear and their own hopelessness than just a physical obstacle.
Whats also brilliant about the prison sequence is that you see the prison guards disorganization from the very beginning when they bring Cassian in. He sees it as well. And that he does not say anything and the director just shows you him looking back and forth, and then later encouraging a revolt and escape, is part of the brilliance of the show. The acting, the plot, the directing, and particularly the writing, are exemplary here. I could tear apart all other Star Wars franchises and characters and stories, but I'll keep it short by saying, this is the best thing Star Wars has ever produced. The antagonists are just as intricate as the protagonists, and you are kept wondering at times, who is who. It just does not get better than Andor.
Andor's quality is such a bizarre anomaly in the Star Wars Disney+ Sphere. Not a single series on the site before or after has come even close to the quality of the show. I'm convinced that the script was recycled from some darker and grounded new sci-fi IP that never got picked up by a studio and got wrenched into being a Star Wars story by accident.
Maybe but I choose to believe that Tony and his team really take all the intention in this, remeber, Tony and Diego already where in Rogue One, Andor dosent seem like just a script abandon and pick up later, though, maybe some inspiration may have come from other sources, often writers take from every place and mold to make new thnigs, nothingcomes from the void. Eithe way am extremely happy that Andor got made with all tha quality
I have my own conspiracy theory. I believe the "Mon Mothma" shown in the show is an avatar for Kathleen Kennedy First - she needed to gain their trust. By churning out rubbish Star Wars year after year, she certainly achieved that! ("I'm seen as an irritation") But ... "when you see the rock in my hand, you miss the knife at your throat" She stole $250 million dollars from right under their noses - because they thought she was one of them, as we all did. We were all fooled. "you just walk in there and look like you belong". She used "Asohka" as cover for her crime of making the best Star Wars in history ... "perhaps you find my version of Star Wars too strong for your taste? ... Smile :))" I hope this is close to the truth - because otherwise - JUST HOW??? This was a massive project - and I believe word of mouth will make it a massive success for future generations. Nobody watched Bladerunner when it was first released - now an all-time classic
@@jazzx251 if KK is that way, why couldn't she make every show a banger Star Wars show? Why keep degrading George's characters when she promised to protect them?
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о Because it's her cover ... in order to steal $250 million dollars from the evil Disney Empire, she had to infiltrate them with weak-ass Star Wars shows to gain their confidence. It worked - she was able to walk up to them and say "I need $250 million" "What for?" "Star Wars" "Ok - there you go ..." She spat in their food on the way out ... Please let it be true! - you couldn't make up a better tragic redemption arc if you tried (except in Andor - lol) - I think Kathleen actually wrote Luthen's speech in episode 10: She knew that she was deliberately ruining Star Wars, in order for Andor to exist - and save Star Wars. The ends justified the means. "I have made my mind a sunless space I use the tools of my enemy to defeat them I sacrifice love, kinship, respect I'm damned for what I do, And will never see the light of gratitude I have sacrificed EVERYTHING - for Star Wars."
Andor was the first Star Wars in a long time that felt like it had real people in it. So yeah, a plot that flows as if real people are making substantive choices matters.
Andor is a prime example of an anti-fascist masterpiece. It perfectly illustrates the deadly efficiency of an evil bureaucracy in a totalitarian state and the horror ordinary citizens without the benefit of being godlike spaze-wizards have to suffer. The empire was never depicted this menacing in all of Star Wars and even a soldier-slaughtering Darth Vader in a spooky hallway (btw one of the best Star Wars scenes ever and by the same creators as Andor) can't beat the horror of living in a giant arbitrarily meat grinder where you get put into endless working camps just out of bad luck. The urge to fight such a system and the understanding for the still to be formed rebel alliance has never been this clear. If Disney really wants to push some political messages, it should be exactly these ones.
I still remember when I watched Andor and I saw the sheer amount of thought put into the prison, it’s systemic oppression and overall design. I thought to myself that this is a badass way to show what an awful regime the Empire truly was. The prison was like a metaphor for how the Empire wanted the entire galaxy to run, make it so everyone is obedient, fearful and obliged to do whatever they could to support the Empire to protect their place under its thumb and have the whole thing be nearly self sustained. It makes even more sense if you have read the Tarkin novel. The Emperor wanted control so he’d be free to explore the dark side so he and Vader could gain the power to manipulate reality through the Force, but to do that he’d need unrestricted access to all available knowledge, locations and artifacts regarding the Dark side in the galaxy and the time to explore them. The Jedi, the Republic and various governments and people of the galaxy stood in the way of that, thus he believed he needed absolute control. The Empire, the Death Star was all secondary to his true goals. Like Vader said, “The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.”
I absolutely do not enjoy sharing a species with adult-age people for whom it is deadass necessary to be explained _that a story's plot _*_actually DOES matter._* ESPECIALLY in regards to themes and conveying them in any decent way.
When I watch a show or movie that I didn't like, I can't always coherently say what it is I didn't like about it, or really make the case for what it is that didn't work. Breakdowns like this often help me work through it, which is something I really appreciate.
Andor was made 50 years too late. The whole series is built like those dystopian scifi films from the 70s and 80s, like Planet of the Apes, Soylent Green, Logan's Run, and of course THX 1138 that somehow is related to Star Wars.
Aka: the "future" our world is heading too right now at lightspeed, this series came at the most perfect time, look around you and let it inspire you when the time comes.
23:00 Mauler called those "neatpicks" and i really like that term. And my opinion when talking about nitpicks vs neatpicks is that it is just as valid to be impressed and pleased with a films attention to the finer details as it is to be disappointed in a films disregard of them.
It's easier to have a cohesive plot in a world that George already world-built a ton. It's hard to do that when all you got is TFA and a bunch of mystery boxes.
Another problem of the LAst Jedi is: if Finn can reach the Star Destroyer from Canto, it means they can reach the rebel fleet, and if they can, the First Order also should be able to. Not to talk about sending a few ships in advance via hyperspace and got them from rear and front. That chase always seemed to me the lamest plot device.
Do you know when you mentioned the guy that was a Storm Trooper in the flagship that had the hyperspace tracker, but never thought of saying that, never saw battle, etc? The new trilogy is full of these plot holes Now let's compare it to Andor. In episode 2 if i an not mistaken, right after we are introduced to Dedra Meero, her supervisor casually mentions he is pleased with the number of detentions in a sector under her charge. This phrase not even noticed at first viewing of the show, tells us that the ISB is promoting competition to see who gets more detentions. It's not detentions of rebels or empire haters. It's just detentions they want. Meaning that to look good, imperial ISB officers are probably content in doing several innocents arrests. Which just ties so well with what happens to Andor later... Arrested for no reason. Which is also ironic considering not only he got under the radar of the empire who were searching for him (in order to reach Luthen) and at the same time turned someone who just disliked the empire but didn't believe in organized rebellion, in a future rebel captain that helped get the plans for the first death star
It's not a heat floor in the night, it's just a lethal amount of electricity. Calling something with voltage running through it "hot" is common. anyway Andor is amazing
As much as I'm inclined to agree with the premise of this video, your point about what I think is Poe's arc in TLJ being undercut by the absurdity of Holdo's plan is too unfocused with one too many tangents to really convey your point at all especially when compared to the Andor arc you chose.
I don't know why, but every time I see Kino Loy's speech, I just imagine Polnareff's theme song from JoJo part 5 playing, and the scene gets 10x better.
I never understand why negative is looked at as a bad thing, especially in the SW fandom at the moment. Whenever I critique something in the Star Wars franchise I’m doing out of the love I have for it and the fact that I want it to do better and I know it absolutely can. God forbid I want something I love to be good and improve on mistakes rather than make the same mistakes over and over again and be stuck in this terrible mess
Excellent video, this is my first time watching your work. Great arguments, very well succinctly laid out, editing is on point with visuals that back up your point. Pointing out the inconsistency of weak-willed critics was very well done. And, to top it all off, you don’t speak in the stereotypical “video essay” voice. You have character and depth of emotion, making it feel like your words are natural and not acted out. I will definitely be checking out more of your videos.
Just a point regarding Poe's arc in TLJ that I rarely see brought up; hindsight proves Poe's actions completely correct but the movie is oblivious to that fact. Had he not disobeyed orders and pulled back instead of destroying the Dreadnaught than the "fleet killer" Dreadnaught and it's long range canons would have been part of the fleet that tracked the Resistance threw Hyperspace and they all would have died. The only thing that Poe did wrong was insobordination.
Yeah, but then the rebels would have had the bomber fleet, and unless you knew about hyperspace tracking tech (WHICH YOU DID NOT), you could jump away all the time
@@chasx7062 Not sure what your point about the bomber fleet is, yeah the bomber fleet would have survived to be completely useless for a little longer before getting wiped out anyway. You think those slow moving and completely unprotected ships would have survived having to make an even LONGER trip to there target? Doesn't matter if he didn't know about hyperspace tracking. His entire point is that the ship is a fleet killer and that taking it out would save countless lives. He turned out to be correct much sooner than he thought.
@@williamcronshaw5262 Clueless Poe did not take out the Dreadnought BTW, his "useless" bombers and crew who risked their lives to take out ONE dreadnought, which the Empire could have replaced, rebuilt, or just mount the BFG on another ship !!! Fleet killer it was NOT, we never saw the Dreadnought do anything but two big blasts that didnt even kill the rebels on planet, since they "ran away to fight another day" which is the tactics of hit and run of a hyperspace jump? Duh !!! Star Wars fans are the Dumbest Mofos LOL
@@williamcronshaw5262no he wasn't, more people died in Poes Bombing run than in Cruiser chase. Literally everybody was evacuated into the capital ship except for each ships Captian and they all made it down to crait, where the majority were killed by The battle. Had Poe not used the Bombers they couldn't used them on the surface to fend off the First order Forces approaching on land while the fighters and the falcon lead the ties away. Even the dreadnaught wasn't going to keep up, last Jedi showed us that physics in space don't matter and larger ships are slower meaning that Dreadnaught wouldn't be travelling any faster than the Supremacy was
@@Captianmex1C0 The only reason more people didn't die in the cruiser chase is because they were "just out of range." The Juggernaut ship that Poe destroyed, according to TLJ, is both a fleet killer and is equipped with "long range cannons" that can wipe out an entire base from orbit. For reference; assuming the resistance planet is about the same size as Earth, the distance between the surface and space is approximately 62 miles. That's extremely long range and the Juggernaut is quite a distance away from the planet's atmosphere so it would be even more than that. Considering how badly the resistance fared in the battle without the Juggernaut being present, had it been there they would have been completely annihilated. This is, of course, ignoring all of the other stupidity in these scenes like the fact that projectiles have unlimited range in space because there's no gravity or wind resistance to slow them down or the fact that the First Order could either have some of their fleet light speed ahead to cut off the Resistance or just call in reinforcements to cut them off. Or the fact that the Resistance ship is faster than the First Order ships because it's "smaller and lighter" even though, once again, no gravity in space means everything is weightless so mass actually has no bearing on speed.
Thank you so much for voicing EXACTLY my similar reactions to both entries! I get scolded a lot as well for nit-picking media, so I appreciate you sharing my thoughts exactly! Keep up the good work, and know you’re not alone!
"Themes" without a coherent and internally consistent plot is just a sermon. It's the director/writer lecturing you and using the skinsuit of whatever property they're working with to get you in the audience. A story without themes and/or a moral is a weak story. A story without a plot is just a fortune cookie
Andor practically grabbed a defibrillation kit, turned the output to full power, and charged us almost to a third degree burn. We finally woke up and our eyes were opened, SW will never be the same and that's a very good thing.
An additional part that makes the Imperial prison arc of Andor great is what the prison itself represents and how it ties back into the thematic throughline. The idea of it was inspired by the Panopticon, which was a real-life blueprint for making prisons much more efficient and in need of less officers, and it was first proposed in the 18th century by an English philosopher named Jeremy Bentham. The main idea is to allow all prisoners of an institution to be observed by a single officer/group of officers, without the inmates knowing whether or not they are being watched. And by implanting the idea that they are being watched at all times when they first come in, they essentially self-regulate and contribute to keeping the group regulated. It ties back into the themes of the show, like you were saying, but also from a philosophical angle when Cassian's realization, and subsequently rallying cry, for getting the prisoners to work together is the line "Nobody's watching". It says that not only is the Empire being repressive toward its subjects but in a sense, the people are also repressing themselves and other people through social enforcement, and it's also echoed fairly well in Mon Mothma's arc when her daughter is enthusiastically doing the marriage ritual with her friends when it's heavily implied that it will mean the end of her freedom, for example. My point is, thematic resonance adds a lot more to stories than I think a lot of people realize. It makes the story come full circle and gives another layer through which to explore theming through how it affects multiple people and settings.
“Electrocuted” actually means ‘killed via electrical shock’, though it’s often incorrectly used colloquially to mean “shocked”. They don’t actually get electrocuted for least productivity, they get shocked. Otherwise, great video.
So it's a contraction of _electro-_ and _execution?_ That'd make sense. What about _electrified_ as a compromise; to be clear he doesn't mean _shocked:_ the emotion.
I feel like zapped implies a visible bolt of electricity arcing through the air and hitting someone. It doesn't seem right to me to call what the prisoners experience as being zapped. @@charlesruteal9062
I love how TLJ tries to paint Finn as a coward trying to abandon ship when all he's trying to do is warn Rey of the situation. I bet if he actually was allowed to leave and warn her, Luke would have actually been willing to help the Resistance knowing the full situation and they could have turned the tide here.
Exactly. If he wasn’t talking to the galaxy’s most stubborn, know it all, Uber feminist, he’d have been able to communicate that all he was doing was leaving to warn their most effective warrior that they were in trouble, the rest of their convoluted plot to make Holdo a hero would not have been able to unfold because Luke and Ray would’ve come to their rescue while Poe would likely have pivoted to a plan that was dependent on someone focused on saving their friends instead of an idiot who gets caught up in rescuing a bunch of horses (still blown away that Holdo was considered a hero by the rebellion, instead of a deserter who was 99.999% likely to escape to light speed with her very own warship without being tracked because the empire was sidetracked with murdering all her friends escaping to the planets surface… Admiral Holdo- unluckiest deserter in the history of galactic warfare)
If that happened, Rey wouldn't be manipulated by Kylo. Maybe Finn could discover he had the Force faster too. If Rose let him leave, the only one who would be worse off would be Kylo Ren and nobody else.
While I haven't watched anything star wars since the kenobi show, it's good to hear that for the briefest of moments some had the for thought to at the very least include a story that not only was cohesive, but looks somewhat like what you'd expect to be Star Wars. That's unfortunately not something you see very often 😕
If you have not watched Andor, you should. It is hands down great television...not just the best written and acted Star Wars. It stands in the same universe as The Expance, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones and The Wire.
The fact that modern Star Wars can do both these extremes, as well as everything in the middle shows that Lucasfilm does still have it, but they really need to figure out the word: consistency. Consistency is what makes good production companies, and they just don't have it.
Something that buggs me with the prison arc. Please explain it. So the "clerical error" was that somebody who was supposed to be "released" ended up on the other floor and back at "work". Lets deconstruct the Imperial plan here. If the goal is to keep prisoners indefinitely you cant keep it a secret from the prisoners. The very 1st time this shuffle occurs the prisoner tells everybody "Hey I did my time in the other block." So the secret becomes real obvious real fast. Am I missing something?
It’s possible they have an entire prison for recycling prisoners into that’s stricter or worse than this one, in the opening shot of the prison it’s shown there’s multiple of them in one ocean. It may also be possible it was a genuine mistake showing their incompetence and that this is the first time it’s happened and to avoid further unrest they just killed all of floor two! Or at least that’s what I’ve theorised lol
I 100% agree with the points you made on negative criticism having merit. Sometimes something is so backwards or unacceptable that it can be therapeutic to scrutinize it and change people's minds, as long as you don't start a flame war. Standards are a valuable thing. Making intelligent discussion, even with strong dissension, is important if we want to keep evolving/improving a series or art form. Years ago, I found a top ten list video about a game series I like, and the video counted down the top ten worst stages across the series. I knew something was up when the creator randomly insulted any "unintelligent" viewers who might complain about his choices, and then unfurled a list of arbitrary rules that existed primarily to exclude stages he enjoys or came from his favorite game. It felt like he had a vendetta against certain stages and wrote his criteria so that they were the only ones that he could dishonor, regardless of how poor other stages were. (He mentioned an infamous map but then pardoned it because the villain has a big moustache, for example.) He then started contradicting his own rules more and more as the countdown continued, and by the end of this top ten video, he had condemned 50 stages--the #1 worst stage was an _entire game and a half_ , defeating the whole point of the list. It ticked me off, so I went to the comments to do something about it. Looking at the comment section, I saw that his audience lapped up everything he said without question. The vast majority thought it was a well-reasoned, professional video. So I wrote a few paragraphs coolly explaining how invalid or ludicrous many of his claims were. While I was met with a couple insults, I was surprised at how many of the fans opened their eyes and became more critical of the TH-camr's attitude/arguments. Some even contributed points to my case. It was incredibly cathartic to see the difference one voice could make in a sea of blindly supportive watchers. Some would say I did a terrible thing by spreading negativity around a happy crowd, but it remains a positive memory for me--far more than if I'd let it go and closed the video without a word.
Hearing you say that having criticisms of kenobi and writing a video about it was cathartic is really interesting to me because now I want to make my own video about the Halo tv show
Theory: There are two types of people that watch movies, the objective viewers and the subjective viewers. Two audiences with opinions. When creating a story for the subjective audience a writer always risks losing the objective audience. But if I writer writes for the objective audience then they are really writing for everyone. Although, the second is much harder and means having pride in one’s work. I hope it’s something we all can remember. Good video mate.
I appreciate the TLJ criticism you present here, particularly in comparison to Andor. I'm a TLJ fan in that it tries to do *something* new in the last trilogy, even if the plotholes are so incomprehensibly common they make The Spot look solid. But that one aspect does not negate the fact that it's got big problems. It's beyond unfortunate when fans cannot conceive of or accept criticism of their fandom subjects - it often correlates with a lack of critical thinking in the meaningful aspects of life.
The issue with that is, don’t try to do something new to an existing 9 part series. You’ve basically just said F everything, fans, stories, etc. make your statement about something new.
@@stazeII I am old enough to remember that this was criticism leveled at The Empire Strikes Back too, lol! Some people just wanted more of the familiar story. How much came before almost doesn't matter.
@@douglasbaker9663 that's fair. But Empire didn't shit all over everything established in ANH. Rian decided to shut throw out everything from TFA and before it and say "to hell with the fanbase"... and then left whomever directed/wrote episode 9 to do something with it. Honestly, I mostly blame leadership at Disney/LucasArts for not actually having enforcing some overarching plot for the final trilogy. That's on Kathleen Kennedy or whomever.
@@stazeII What exactly did TLJ "throw out" from TFA? Just because he didn't made your theories from TFA come alive in the way you hoped to, doesn't mean he didn't acknowledge it? I'd argue he respected everything in TFA and approached in the best way a second movie in a trilogy can do - by focusing on the characters. - Rian writing Luke as a hermit, is literally him trying to come up with an explanation to why JJ placed Luke on a remote island and hiding from the war. - Rey's parents revealed to be nobodies, isn't a middle finger to JJ and the fans that hoped her to be someone special. It's the complete the opposite. The fact that Rey (and the fans) were hoping that she would be related to somebody we already knew, is what makes the reveal that they're nobodies so much more powerful and meaningful for the character of Rey It's Rian saying that Rey has to stand on her own two feet and create her own story to be special and not depended on her heritage. - Rian didn't throw away Finn's character. He literally gave him a complete side story that wasn't depended on Rey. In TFA, Finn was obseesed with saving Rey and fleeing the first order. Rian he didn't saw him as a rebel at the end of TFA, which is why he made him go through a journey of choosing what side he wants to fight for and for what ideels. - Neither is the fact that Snoke was killed in TLJ an example of where Rian "threw away" the setups from TFA. It was an awesome choice for the further development of Kylo Ren's character. If there's anyone who didn't acknowledge the movie that came before it, that would be JJ in the rise of skywalker.
So glad you made a video on this, any opportunity to highlight the brilliance of Andor is time well spent, it just makes we want to go back and re-watch that whole series. I do appreciate some ideas and themes The Last Jedi addresses, but for all its flaws that people bring up regarding how it ruined Star Wars for them, the biggest thing for me was I simply wasn't engaged, I was left feeling bored and wasn't invested throughout a lot of it, and it felt like barely anything happened to push the universe or the wider narrative of the trilogy forward. I remember not seeing the flaws of the Poe plot the first time, but I do remember wondering why was a third of the film dedicated to one of the main heroes learning an out of nowhere lesson and pretty much doing nothing else beyond that, it didn't seem to build upon the prior film or add anything new or interesting. I always felt a disconnect between the ideas that film brought up and the execution/conclusions they came to, and you nailed what it was, a poorly written plot is what undermined them. Also 19:38 through to the end, really well illustrated.
Thank you, I've had a similar thought process. The plot points and themes of TLJ could have worked if they were logically consistent with the movies that came before and the plot gave the characters an opportunity to present their perspective naturally. The plot was so contrarian it becomes predictable and the characters just say what their thinking, no nuance or intrigue. I've never seen such an unengaging film garner so much controversy.
@@diemes5463 I'll never forget walking out after first seeing it and thinking 'something feels off, did I actually like that movie or not?' and then it hit me that I simply didn't care about anything that happened in it. The whole film is just very grey and dark which I don't think helps, but then the actual story was paper thin, on top of being badly executed. I was so hoping it would take us to new interesting worlds, build out it's own lore and really break the mold, instead it just stalled upon arrival.
I appreciate your criticism more greatly than most Star Wars centered TH-camrs because your criticisms actually appeal to me as a writer and are often tangible. People who aren’t familiar with writing and story crafting often give statements about symptoms of the problem rather than piercing the issue or core of the problems. Of course you are the opposite.
Can we also address that it makes no sense that the resistance ship even survived 10 seconds after they were caught because the first order ships had ample fuel and would have been able to hyperspace in front of them and blow them up instead of a 2 hour long slow speed chase
I wish they were compared more often. Because TLJ and Andor have one interesting thing in common, I mean that the plot often uses deconstruction. In Andor, this usually makes sense within the narrative and makes the story more complex and interesting. TLJ... has a problem with that.
TLJ doesn't have a problem with deconstruction. People expected things, and hated that Rain didn't make that things (Rey being nobody, Luke being a human being with flaws and not a demigod always perfect, the idea of burning the old things). A TLJ as the fans would wanted was the worst idea of all
One of the reasons TLJ's messy plot bugs me so much is...well, I'm a writer. And it's because I'm a writer that I'm naturally drawn to stories that are well-written, well-structured, and well thought out. I do realize that there's no such thing as a fictional story free from imperfection, but the thing about TLJ is that its plot is so nonsensical and all over the place that it legitimately feels like an insult to the audience's intelligence. So yes, pardon me if I don't like it when a movie thinks I'm too brain-dead to enjoy something that actually has thought put into it
I’ve been a TLJ fan since I saw it as a teen because I loved the character arcs, so I never gave too much thought to the plot. I think you made some really good points about its plot in this video, and it made me realize that maybe I never think about TLJ’s plot because it’s just a sandbox for the characters to run around in, and doesn’t really affect anything? Regardless, I love both Andor and TLJ (and plot - please put plot in stories lmao) for different reasons, and I enjoyed this vid! Thanks for sharing!
I REALLY liked Andor (minus some nitpicks). I had semi-jokingly told friends before I'd love something like a noir detective story on Coruscant or something, but honestly Andor is that show.
Calling you a nitpicker would be wrong since you address entire story flaws and contradictions with themes. Nitpicking can be petty but you are right. Every part of a whole must be working to make something good.
why? It's a streaming service designed for you to watch whenever you like It's not like the old days where advertising revenue from "prime time" shows would determine whether they lived or died. It's about demographics adding "value" to the service "Only" 1.4 million watched Andor in its first week - roughly in line with the disastrous Ashoka But those 1.4 million are going to tell their friends about a great show they watched That adds value to Disney's brand - hence why they think upping their prices massively was justified And it's not like "the Star Wars demographic" either ..... it may be true that people like me, and perhaps yourself, never watched Mandalorian or Boba Fett, but heard good things about this show that we never had any intention of watching If that's true - then we ADD to Disney's viewers, on top of the casual Star Wars fans that just want to see some light sabres; - and with a prestigious show like this, add value to the brand. So - they have existing Star Wars candy-coated rubbish for the kids (so they think) - and Andor for the grown-ups (so they think - my 7-year-old self would have loved Andor WAY more than any other Star Wars, and my schoolfriends as well)
_Andor_ is really great, and is likely the best Disney-era _Star Wars,_ if you can get over the lack of light sabers and swashbuckling… my only criticisms: - the packaging of the arcs into episodes makes the pacing weird… particularly in the middle episodes. - a few events that were referenced or teased were left out, like Mon Mothma hosting a dinner with the Emperor’s alien girlfriend. that would’ve been cool to see. - the thing that set off the plot was Cassian’s search for his sister, but after the first arc he basically forgets about her. - Karn’s arc didn’t really go anywhere… I would’ve liked him to have to brutally kill a Ferrixian (?) to save Meero, or something like that. - I wanted a bit more from Bix and the rest of the Ferrixians. - in the first episode, when Cassian goes to set up an alibi with Brasso, we see a wall covered with tons of gloves… the whistle blows and the workers all come out of a big door at once, as if they’re changing shifts at a mine or a factory… but why are their gloves hanging up while they’re at work? don’t they need the gloves for working, and not the other way around?
For your last criticism, since the scene ends with the workers grabbing their gloves and all getting on a transport, I think the whistle blowing was a signal for their shift to *begin* instead of *end.* They could leave their gloves outside to dry while waiting indoors, and the whistle would tell them all that the transport has arrived to take them to their worksite. That's my interpretation at least. But I agree with or at least understand your other criticisms. Even great shows are rarely perfect.
@@darienwest4748 - it’s mostly the pacing one and that they let go of the search for his sister plot that bug me the most… but it’s still great 👌 and about the gloves… it would make sense they grab their gloves to start a shift, but they all come out of the door at once and scatter. one guy on the little speeder lift does say “come on, let’s go!” to Brasso, but it seemed like that was just a shuttle home 🤷🏻♂️ the gloves are meant to be like the tags that miners put up on the board before entering the mine, so if there’s an accident, they’ll know the ones whose tags are still on the board must still be in the mine… it’s a cool reference, I still just think they got it backwards, or chose a silly item to replace tags.
I assume Tony is going somewhere with the whole sister thing in season 2, because I feel like it could be so easily removed from the story, so there must be some more importance to it. for Karn, I really liked his arc, but this is a subjective thing, so I can maybe understand people not liking his arc as nothing of note really happens. For me I really like Karn because we see what kind of person he is in the first 3 episodes, and then we see why he is that type of person. He then further spirals and becomes obsessed with the empire. Obviously, his arc isn't complete and it's quite obvious that his arc in season 1 is completely just set up for whatever he will do in season 2, so I am very excited for whenever that comes out.
The sister part was addressed by the show? She was there originally as a way to start off the whole conflict by giving andor a reason to be at that bar thus attack and kill the guards and ultimately have to flee the planet so that's why she ever existed explained. As for what happened to his sister then mother figure says to him when he is leaving after the heist and pre prison arc to forget about his sister she never made it out alive, andor was the only survivor and the idea of his sister was always just to make his home being wiped out less painful. Before being told this news about his sister he was busy preparing and then doing the heist, after being told this well he had no reason to look for her since shes yknow, dead, so he settled down on the beach planet before being caught for a crime he didn't commit and from there prison arc etc
@@declangilmour8184 - Maarva (?) told Cassian to give up the hope of finding his sister and accept the fact that she was almost certainly dead… but that was _after_ the Aldhani heist, and it wasn’t a fact, just a likely reality… and Cassian doesn ever really take that advice to heart, at least not where the audience can see. I’m not expecting his sister to show up finally, alive, in the present… I just wanted him to acknowledge that she’s likely dead, and then maybe use that as motivation for actively fighting the Empire, rather than looking out for himself. one more flashback would’ve been nice (but the flashbacks to Cassian’s childhood didn’t have subtitles, so whatever 🤷🏻♂️), or even just a conversation about her with Bix or something would’ve been fine.
I think what makes The Last Jedi so frustrating to watch is that despite its seemingly important themes about failure blah blah blah it doesn't really have a story to tell. It's 'plot' was just a remix of the old Empire Strikes Back and Return of The Jedi plotline with a slightly different outcome. There are an infinite number of potential stories that they could have gone with but they chose this path in particular because the movie was deliberately made not as a vehicle to tell a profound story but rather as just a set of performances to elicit certain reactions from the audience. By treading familiar ground it manipulates your expectations just so it can flip it around. Unsurprisingly it worked for some people who expected very little from their Star Wars movies and annoys the hell out of the others who felt cheated. Andor in contrast do have a story, and it doesn't really care even if it takes several episodes before it gets to the main plot. Furthermore it adds more layers to the universe instead of just adding more things that will need to be explained later in supplemental materials.
I totally agree with you that there's nothing inherently bad with "negative" critique, it's only people that deem it such that it will appear adverse. I discuss a lot of board games, and my critiques are usually removed because they are "against the spirit of the hobby". My main issue with this, is that social media and to an extent, the corporations that run them and their clients (read: advertisers) that pay for their services, want to stiffle any notion of objectivity because it can impact sales and earnings. People don't want to hear "negative" things because they are told that this is not acceptable, and they never see it so they'll believe is malevolent if someone dissent with "popular" opinion. This censorship and filtering of opinions only serve those that want people to consume blindly and obendiently accept what they are fed and told. It's not a conspiracy theory, but it's clear that this actually make it harder for people to understand and accept nuances in the world as they equate only positive opinions as valid and objective opinions. Real objectivity is to have a multifaceted view backed up with evidence, just like you present here. The art we interact with in the real world isn't reviewed by a dicotomy of love/hate, but on a spectrum of appreciation. It's just sad that it's so hard for most believe to understand this as they sit in their little, happy echo chamber.
The writing and overall direction of Andor is leagues ahead of anything the live action SW shows has given us so far & accepting the standards of Ahsoka just isnt going to cut it. Well written scripts go above fan-service any day of the week.
Watching this show week to week as the episodes released was truly a pleasure. Possibly my favorite Star Wars ever simply because of the raw truth it portrays
Andor is more then good - it's fantastic. You have to be a OF "Original Fan" to totally appreciate the 70's sci-fi look and feel. I wish there was a bit of comedy, it's very dark, all the time. The prison is a direct reference to Lucas "THX 1138". Frankly Disney nailed it hard. This time, it's really for the old fans who saw the original trilogy in theater. Thx
There are very few Star Wars moments post Episode III where I get teary eyed - hell any show - but this one got me bawling like a baby during the one way out scene - the music, the sadness in Kino’s character, the inspiration from the prisoners - holy f@ck Andor is sooooooooooooo good
Poe Dameron's arc in the last jedi is as follows: at the start of the movie, poe dameron disobeys orders, and leia frowns. that's bad. at the end of the movie, poe dameron disobeys orders, and leia smiles. that's good! 'do the thing that makes leia happy' is the central theme of the last jedi, and it fuckin' blows.
The people who say "plot doesn't matter as long as the theme is good" has no idea what they're talking about. If that's the case then may I pitch a script? *Two men sitting at a diner* Man 1: "Murder is bad." Man 2: "Yes murder is not good." The End Wow that was a really boring story, but the theme was good.
![⭐️( ลอยกระทง 2024 ) Ver. แดนซ์ Remix BY [ ดีเจกิต รีมิกซ์ ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rMWOLhgXUHc/mqdefault.jpg)
There was something sublime in how at the same time the highest levels of Imperial intelligence were hyper-focused on finding Cassian Andor, the Empire’s own massive bureaucracy blinded them to the fact that they actually already had him in an Imperial prison the whole time.
Yeah given how they were falsifying crimes to acquire slave labour, they evidently didn't want anyone looking at those books. Combine that with Cassian using a fake name and the empire is rendered incapable of finding someone who is literally in their custody. Any of those other prisoners could have used a fake name as they were arrested and therefore might not even have a criminal record in empire controlled systems upon escaping.
To be fair to the Empire, he was admitted under his fake name Keef Gergo. There was no "Cassian Andor" in an Imperial prison record at the time he was in Narkina 5. But I do like the idea and it's one generally explored in the rest of the show.
Yeah man it’s ALMOST like it was well written by an intelligent and competent filmmaking talent huh? Weird…
@@CitizenScott If it was, it would not have to use a plot device in almost every scene.
@@kofola9145 There is literally no plot ever written that does not use a plot device. Plot devices are not a bad thing.
I think it’s amazing how they took this one off character from Rogue One and turned him into one of the compelling, tragic and incredible heroes and characters from the Star Wars universe. The arc Cassian goes through from indifferent criminal to the rebel that gives his life to break the Death Star is truly heartbreaking but also shows what it means to be a rebel. It means you sacrifice everything you are and everything you have for a sunrise you’re never see as Luthen puts it.
Similarly, Kino Loy helped the prisoners escape while knowing all along that he couldn't swim. Such good writing!
I still think Andor is a bland character and the original character they cut into like 7 pieces for Rogue One, Kyle Katarn, is way better. Luthen was great on the other hand.
@@GrivehnAgreed. I enjoyed the show and liked Cassian in Rogue One. But damn was he bland in this show.
Couldn't disagree more. Andor is not a hero in his own series, he's degenerate rat that is forced into position of no return against his will again and again untill he snaps and go full rebel. The very prison arc exists because Andor was dumb enough to attrct attention despite escaping law for years at that point.. Well, if by escaping you can call him throwing constant amount of his collegause under the bus to save his skin like a worthless pile of shit he is... What does he do to Kino when such says at the end part of their escape that he cannot swim? Abandon such cause he's of no use at that point.
@@dimas3829 Some of your word choices feel kind of loaded, like "degenerate rat", "piece of sh*t" and your insinuation that he was essentially looking for trouble by walking along a beach on Niamos, but I'm not going to go there... I can respect that you hold an opinion while completely disagreeing with it.
Also, Cassian got knocked off the edge of the platform right after Kino revealed that he couldn't swim... it was involuntary. You really seem dead set on making him out to be a man of absolutely no worth and no character. I mean, he shot and killed Skeen because he thought the man was morally bankrupt. Cassian ensured the remainder of his colleagues would get their fair portion of the heist money. He befriended Melshi in prison and worked with him again in Rogue One. He rescued his lifelong friend Bix from ISB custody. There are more examples of his evolving character arc, but I'm guessing you couldn't care less.
Andor wasn't just a good Star Wars show, it was a good show, period.
Thats coz Andor did not try to be Star Wars, or it might end up like post-OT Stars Wars (apart from Rogue One & TLJ).... and yes that includes the unWatchable PT LMFAO
@@chasx7062 you mean because it didn't try to the be Disney Star Wars, Andor, (and Rogue One) was perfectly in line with the feel of A New Hope And Empire Strikes Back.
It was shit
Andor sucked.
Drawn out scenes then pew-pew action - rinse and repeat
@@darrengordon-hillit sucked for you, it didn't suck for others. People are the ones who decide.
even Ahsoka didn't learn the proper lessons from Andor.
Andor is honestly the new standard, and nothing should fall below it
Absolutely. Ahsoka is bad on its own, but when compared to Andor, it's barely even worth mentioning. The difference between the two shows is night and day.
Andor had to be some happy accident because Ahsoka and Mando Season 3 follow the status quo of forcing characters into situations due to the sheer stupidity in the preamble set up, that was seen from TLJ. Every choice the characters make in Andor logically lead to the next section of the story without issue.
I'm very sure that the Ahsoka show was already written before Andor aired.
It learned only one lesson - put Mon Mothma in it (as played by Genevieve)
She's made Mon Mothma her own - I'm thrilled for her, after ALL of her scenes were cut from Revenge of the Sith
Now - thanks to Andor - we got to see how amazing a character she is; and so she's done voice-overs for some of the animated series and shows up in Ashoka (which is apparently a load of rubbish - except for including the best Mon Mothma ever!)
@@Hat_With_A_Hat_On shit happens - it just adds to the believability ... because real life is not a sequence of logical events or "plot points"
A big reveal of Kino Loy's (Andy Serkis) motivations come with the "I can't swim" line.
They all saw the water on the way in, escape was always impossible for Kino. His actions at the end were for everyone else, not himself.
The prison arc was definitely my favorite out or Andor. I had a big smile on my face over the fact that they were clearly taking visual as well as narrative cues from THX 1138. In a world of memberberries it was refreshing to see a show take inspiration from something George Lucas made with a sense of purpose rather than to exploit nostalgia.
I truly believe Andor is the piece of media that pays more respect and elevates the work of Lucas and the people involved in the OT. Andor is just amazing by it self but goes even further to give even more weight to origins of the franchise.
Andor felt like a Legends novel. That’s the best way to describe how I feel about that show. It was great.
Luthen is a best character in Andor for me.
He is an epitome of a “rebel scum”. Revolution is not a dinner party or a beautiful heroic scenery of good vs evil. Most of the time it’s a lesser vs a greater of two evils (and sometimes the revolutionary government ended up being the greater evil themselves) and Luthen had to make difficult and sometimes unethical decisions in order to achieve victory (for example, sending a guy to spy in the empire government even though that guy didn’t want to or sacrificing his own team to fool the empire into thinking that he’s not steps ahead of them). And in order to achieve the victory, he had to be 100% committed to the cause that he had to sacrifice his personal life or a chance to have a meaningful relationship with anyone. Every interaction he had was superficial and he had to be on guard all the time because he will never know when he will be betrayed or when he’s gonna betray someone.
Luke, Leia and Han being the “heroes” of the rebels seem like an afterthought if we look in a grand scheme of things. And let’s face it, the rebels were lucky that Luke somehow had the force to control the laser that destroyed the death star. Luthen and Saw and Cassian and The Rogue One group did most of the hard work. These antiheroes walked so that the original trilogy heroes could run.
This is one of the things I love the most(among so many) of Andor, it elevates the OT even higher, Andor could have been content to just be a good series on its own, but it just go extremely far ahead and boost the OT over the stars. Now I cant see the OT the same way, now every pilot on a X Wing that die in that trench covering Luke has a tremendous weight
The contrast between Andor and the OT is part of the point. Luthen works in the grime and shadows doing what realistically needs to be done for revolution. For real change. Provoking the empire to commit atrocities for his own goals. Using and manipulating his own people. Betraying the morals of the side he fights for to give them a chance.
And the only way to take advantage of that chance is to always have hope. You have to believe there's a light at the end and keep pushing for it or you may never reach it. All of Luthen's work building up the rebellion means nothing without Luke to fire the torpedoes and turn Vader. And Luke never gets the chance without Luthen's effort and sacrifice.
Realists, idealists, heroes, antiheroes. Rebellions need all of it.
"A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another." - Mao Zedong
Luthen isn't even really an anti-hero. He's almost more of an anti-villain. He is well aware that much of what he is doing is objectively evil, but he's doing it so that eventually the greater evil-the Empire-might be brought down. He knows that in situations like this, someone needs to do the dirty work, so he's going to do that to keep others from having to.
Proton Torpedos are not 'lasers'.
They are actual physical torpedoes with an actual physical casing. Not every weapon in Star Wars is an energy weapon. Rockets and missiles are still used.
I will agree with the rest of the sentiment that not every Rebel has to be a 'good guy' just as not every Stormtrooper was a 'bad guy'. Andor did a proper job with that.
I will disagree that the Heroes of the Rebellion 'did nothing'. Remember that one of the key tenets of the OT was that 'Evil wins only if Good stands by and does nothing.' And yes, remember the OT was written during an era where Black/White morality was more widespread to drive that point home.
Love Andor that it shows how messy and complex a revolution/ war really is. It makes the plot more realistic than those of good guys vs bad guys kind of war like mainstream action movies (and that includes the original trilogy as well).
I still can't get over just how horrifying the prison arc in Andor was. The best way I can describe the feeling I got is to say it was like a movie about a person being kidnapped and held in someone's basement, but on a larger scale. Everyone knows how wrong it is and why the Empire's doing it, but they're too terrified to do anything about it and go along with it. This show in general, but specifically this arc, is probably the only time I ever felt and understood just how legitimately evil the Empire is and why it was important they were stopped.
Oh, for a moment I thought by “horrifying” you meant to say “how shitty that arc was and was such a dumpster fire” but as I read on I realized you were praising this hunk of garbage.
Sorry if I actually thought you had good taste.
@@Hat_With_A_Hat_On 😆
Oh, wait, you’re serious. Let me laugh even harder.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Don’t let r/EmpireDidNothingWrong see this
@@Hat_With_A_Hat_On I'm sure this guy will then go on to praise Revenge of the Sith as an "underrated masterpiece"
@@nagger8216 I’ll let your comment alone speak highly of your ignorance.
To be completely honest Andor was definitely my favorite TV show of 2022, practically everything about it is so compelling and well crafted that it gave us a story that left my jaw on the floor on many occasions. 10/10 season imo and I hope they can nail S2 as well.
Honestly, I liked even more than House of Dragon, Andor is now my favorite series of Star Wars along in that line with the OT
Wow, you have very low standards.
@@danyknight9107 Same, Andor is definitely up there with the OT (more specifically ANH and ESB) in terms of how much I like it.
I would say that, but I didn't discover Arcane (Don't ask me why) until September of 2022.
Andor is an even smarter show than you realise. The continuity is stellar. Before Andor shoots the traitor, you can see him put a hand behind his back when he starts to suspect him, which is where he keeps his blaster.
In the first episode when hes being held up, he only attacks when he has vidually confirmed how many people there are AND how many guns they have between them, and he acts on the information THAT HE HAS SEEN WITH HIS OWN EYES (he goes for the guy he DOESNT KNOW if they have a gun or not because he couldnt be sure if he was armed)
Also, the few times the Imperials get held up, they seem GENUINELY shocked, because this is before the rise of the rebels, they are NOT PREPARED for even the notion that anyone would try to oppose them.
Logical consistency is what keeps the story together if it there is no logical consistency your story breaks
Its not even about logical consistency per-say but maintaining the verisimilitude well enough to suspend the audience's disbelief. Characters can say or do things that are illogical but if them doing so has in keeping with that character's behavior as established in the story to that point.
That's why what they did with Luke in TLJ didn't work for so many people because we saw him try to redeem his literally genocidal abusive father even after torture and threat of death, he does crack and lash out at Vader but only after being literally assaulted and mentally deconstructed and manipulated by Vader and the Emperor for hours, him pulling out and igniting his lightsaber in contemplation of killing his troubled nephew (who we never get any insight into why he was troubled 🙄 ) is just not in Luke's character and it very obvious Rian Johnson wrote Luke like that for the sake the theme he was trying to convey but he didn't earn that character moment. He took the quick and easy path of a lazy writing and doing so only served to highlight how much better the very same theme about learning from failure was better realized and conveyed between TESB and ROTJ.
@@Terminalsanity logical consistency can also mean about the in character actions
The best part about Andor was seeing how all the arcs ended up being connected. The way its all tied together was so brilliant. Some of it was in your face, some of it was subtle, but everything gets sown together where at the end you start putting the pieces together. How Aldhani led to the PORD, and how the tightened grip led to the riot on Ferrix. There is so much attention to detail. So much care and love out into it. So much effort. You can tell that it wasn't a first draft. You can tell that in the writers room, there was a discussion on how to tell these, at the time, seemingly separate stories, and wind them together into somthing truly special. Andor significantly raised the bar for what we should expect from Star Wars. We need more complex and mature stories that are more than just "bad guy bad, good guy good"
I swear when I first watched andor, I was literally stunned. The way he stealthed around all those guards at first had me on the edge of my seat. Prison arc was great and I wish it was longer purely cause I loved it so much and I NEED THE NEXT SEASON! ANDOR PLS 🤣
I agree that there is a certain objectivity to critisizing art, but there is also a difference between liking bad art and DEFENDING bad art.
I don't mind if someone likes bad art despite it's flaws and acknowledge the flaws, but insisting something bad is actually good is what really grinds my gears.
@@joycongod4831 That depends on what you define as art. Anything can be "art" in someones eyes even if it isn't intended to be art. Like a tree or a car. So from that perspective you're right. But from the perspective that art is something someone makes put of love, care and passion then there is bad art. Like the star wars suquels who were made only with intent to make money. They weren't made with love, care and passion, they were made with laziness, greed and deception. Therefore it is bad art. Again, you can argue that bad art is great art on a different level because it represents humam flaw and greed and yada yada yada, but that's not the argument here.
@joycongod4831 Art is both subjective and objective. Between two pieces of similar quality, the judges individual taste and interpretation will decide which is preferred. However in cases where there is a great disparity in quality, one can find universal opinions. If you are offered two meals by chefs, and one meal is undercooked and gives you food poisoning, then it is objectively inferior to the other meal regardless of one’s own personal taste.
@@waylander9265 exactly!
Everyone in this thread is varying degrees of wrong
@@rudolfambrozenvtuber Including you?
Andor is rich with plot and especially character. I remember watching the first fight with the two guards and the use of non verbal communication and each character acting according to their own goals as the second guard realizes andor will kill him to cover up the death of the first guard and then turned to my family and said " they are actually telling a story this time." Then proceeded to binge the show and after I was done just feeling content and satiated a feeling I hadn't gotten from many shows in 5 years especially star wars. That sense that everything had a proper set up and pay off that the emotional scenes were justified, the characters developed properly and behaved consistently and the plot was coherent. Unlike the junk food that is Mandalorian and the sheer trash that was Obi Wan I felt like my entertainment pallet was pleased I was eating right again. House of The Dragon had a similar effect.
Andor infuriates me because THEY. CAN. MAKE. GOOD. STAR. WARS. and yet they pick writers and directors who refuse to.
Andor is to Kenobi what House of the Dragon is to Rings of Power.
whats your pfp?
Did u js call the mandalorian junk food? Season 1 is one of the best pieces of sw media out there
@@thefuriousfatty2297maybe he is talking of Mando S3 wich was horrible bad. Mando S1 was very good, it has not the complexity of the Andor wirting but it was consistent and logic, hell Mando S1 and Andor are the very proof you can have both type of shows, one for more older audiences and one for more young ones, but each of them with consistency and care.
The problems with the TLJ plot are more than just one thing. The entire premise of the thing is basically plot holes from beginning to end. And it isn't to make it more interesting, it is to make it a boring, tedious slow-motion chase. Let us see, just to start:
1. Why do they think the First Order have a new device to track them through space instead of just a tracking device planted on one of the ships?
2. Why don't they just split up? If it is one tracking device it can't track them all at once.
3. Why don't they jump to a world with reinforcements?
4. How can they suddenly only have fuel for one more jump, with all the ships at once? It is an unbelievable coincidence.
5. How can all the ships have the same maximum speed?
6. The First Order wouldn't just pull back their fighters. And why would the fighters have a different maximum speed to everything else?
@insane_troll It screams of a first draft and Rian Johnson having a case of Dunning Krueger. Lucas did the same thing with the Phantom Menance. Any writer worth their salt knows the first draft is there as a base. It’s never perfect and revisions and redrafts matter during the process to get the idea as close as possible. Ignoring how the sequels has no plan, what Rian did was horrendously irresponsible in not watching TFA and having complete control. Contrast this movie to something like Puss N Boots the Last Wish or even Arcane. The scripts for those pieces took time. Arcane they spent three years( six in total. Half for the animation; the other for the writing) and it shows. Quality comes from diligence, drive and a willingness to question everything and make what you do count. Rian didn’t do that. He was too much in his bubble and worse wanted folks to be divided. Woefully irresponsible for a tentpole franchise.
@@Avarn388 the difference between a good writer and a bad writer is confidence. the bad writer has too much of it, the good writer not enough.
Which is why the good writers redraft constantly and obsess over the details, and Rian Johnson is giddy about how he just ran with his first draft....
7. If the speed of the Resistance fleet is limited, why didn't the First Order just surround them with all the Star Destroyers they have and turn them into Swiss space Cheese?
Why don't the rebels just take one of those frigates that dies doing nothing and have it hyperdrive ram that mega Star Destroyer thing. Why don't the Empi.. I mean the First Order do the same with some smaller ships. Why don't they build missiles that have hyperdrives? Why?
Why didn't the definitely not the empire have a few star destroyers tactically drop in ahead of the definitely not the rebelbfleet and sandwich them?
The prison break episode was honestly one of the most satisfying things I've ever watched in tv/film.
Then you must not have watch much TV/Film.
@@peterkrochmalni673Believe me, I've watched plenty, I just happen to find this episode more satisfying than most other things I've watched.
@@peterkrochmalni673hey look a pretentious cockroach who thinks he knows it all
Had me in tears during the escape 😭😭😭 - not many shows do this
@@peterkrochmalni673well, it is a good episode. Well directed and wrote. I think there are a lot of prejudices about Andor for (maybe) being a spin-off from a spin-off, or just ‘cause it’s an Star Wars show. And the true is, Andor it is very outstanding in a lot of aspects.
What a relief! I just watched episode three of Ahsoka, and...well... what the fuck did I just watch?!? I'm seeing people praising it and giving it a 9 or 10. Wha?!?? Remember, those are the people who didn't care for Andor and claimed that it was "boring" or "didn't feel like Star Wars." Ugh....
The brilliance of Andor deserves recognition. Thanks for the video, I loved it!
Is really infuriating, this "so called fans" are the ones that call the masterpiece of Tony Gilroy and his team boring and garbage. Andor was slow burn precisely beacause all the worldbuilding and character build up that make. You cant just see Andor with the brain off or half on, you have to see with all turned at maximum, paying attention to every piece of the beautiful dialogue. Just the dialogue alone and the iterations of the characters made the plot move, in Ahsoka nothing advances, is just very basic almost not functional dialogue where all the characters are this weird stoic personality
I enjoy both shows. Obviously, believe that Andor is far superior to anything else Disney has put out, but I can still find enjoyment in their different shows.
@@sirboomsalot4902 Yeah, there are definitely enjoyable aspects of Ahsoka, and I don't completely hate it, but as a whole it feels amateurish.
To be honest episode 3 has been my favorite but still I think andor is miles away I would give it a 6-7
Don't stress it these 'fans' are the same ones who were noisy about how good TLJ was, and then years pass and they have to admit they were wrong when public sentiment and the echo chamber that is thier social media runs out.
Not many people are arguing TLJ to the end nowadays, most people just say 'yeah it sucked but I enjoyed it'.
Longevity matters. These shows are fleeting.
Andor is nearly perfect television. The new heights it brings to Star Wars only makes the recent crap look even more absurdly bad because we know how good Star Wars can still be.
250 millions on budget put to good use and on top of all that money insane levels of passion, creativity and care. Tony and his team get the most out of every coin. I can only hope that the initial low viewrship dosent stop S2 to reach the same level of S1 or fly even higher
just listen to yourself, "nearly perfect" ... just say what you feel!
It's "PERFECT!"
I want that word ringing in your ears!
@@jazzx251 you’re right, Andor is PERFECT!
Themes mean nothing if they are not put on top solid plot as the foundation. "Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love" means nothing when put right next to a scene of the First Order blowing up the gate of the base on Crait. Anti-animal abuse as a theme rings hollow next to child slavery that our "hero" characters neglected. Shades of gray in morality means nothing right after you are presented with the most unambiguously evil faction in Star Wars - rich war profiteers. Resistance to the authority of tyranny means nothing when our hero character is compelled to submit to and follow orders of a different authority figure. "Failure is the greatest teacher" means nothing when Luke Skywalker later fails to learn from his mistake to initiate violence against his nephew (which drove Ben Solo to the dark side to begin with) and continues to provoke and antagonize Kylo in the last moments of his (Luke's) life.
Well said, especially the last point
I'm pretty sure that blowing up multiple planets at once *is* the vilest thing that happened in movie sw
This is probably the best breakdown I’ve seen of what was wrong with The Last Jedi. Personally I have always defended the movie and Rian Johnson, despite some very obvious problems that can’t be ignored I respected the direction he tried to push Star Wars in. It was a poorly constructed shoddy prototype for what Andor has succeeded at. Maybe we wouldn’t have gotten Andor without that movie existing. Regardless Andor is the best Star Wars media I’ve ever seen, I really hope they can recognize that more like this would be very welcome to fans
The last bit is the worst. Why doesn't Luke say "there's good in you, Kylo" at the end? He just seems to want to troll him then disappear. Not Luke at all. Horrible characterization
The best thing about Andor (and the first season of the Mandalorian) is that no homework is necessary to understand what you are watching. Even if you have never seen ANY Star Wars content before watching the series made sense. Not so with Ahsoka, the Book of Boba Fett, Kenobi or the third season of Mando.
What homework would Book of Boba need? He's completely different from all prior Boba Fett appearances... It's like studying from math, and getting literature exam.
Neither Kenobi requires any homeworks from you, I don't understand what you're talking about??? Maybe Mando Season 3 does somewhat
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о What!? Is this a freaking joke!? You HAVE to know who the hell obi wan kenobi is in the first place! You also need to know that Anakin Skywalker is Darth Vader and he attacked the Jedi Temple. You need to know that Leia is Anakin and Padme's daughter. You also have to know that Anakin and Obi-Wan have fought against each other in the past before Obi-wan has a Rematch with Anakin(vader) in episode 6. There's so much freaking homework that needs to be done for someone who did NOT watch star wars.
Also you kidding me? No homework for Boba Fett? The Mandalorian literally appaears mid-season and they make references to season 1 of the mandalorian! If you don't know that, you'll be lost! You're a fool
@@nonbinarygenderqueerhomosa8820 watching previous movies and shows is not homework... That's just basic Star Wars??? Mando and Ahsoka are the shows that need homework because you have to watch multiple seasons of animated shows... Wtf is the fandom today if they don't know who Vader is? He's a cultural icon, even people who didn't watch Star Wars know who Vader is. Are you joking?
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о You contradict your own statements.
"watching previous movies and shows is not homework"
"the shows that need homework because you have to watch multiple seasons of animated shows"
Pick one.
It doesn't matter if someone is a cultural Icon. People who have not seen the prequels will be confused and will not properly understand the meaning of the fight.
@@nonbinarygenderqueerhomosa8820 I didn't contradict myself, George's movies are Star Wars basics, not some extra homework
Can we just give Toby Haynes and Tony Gilroy a Star Wars movie already? Let them come up with their own premise in some distant point in time in the galaxy. Please let good writers write Star Wars again.
Too bad Gilroy is on the street striking with the WGA. We're strapped in for Hollywood production limbo for a long time.
@@aquapendulumHe didn’t have much of a choice. He tried at first to continue but the British joined the strike and then forced him to join it or face the consequences.
@@lembitmoislane. I think he made some declarations that before the Strike he had finished the Andor S2 sricpt and production was almost complete, is this correct? In any case am dying to see the S2 of Andor, I just cant wait.
@@danyknight9107 Yes he said that but the filming wasn't done and it's possible that while filming they wanted to improve some things in the writing. So now everything in that show has been halted.
I don't think that's the solution. I think there are a lot of good writers who don't want to work with Lucasfilm since it's just not a fun place to work anymore. They can't write Star Wars forever, they already said they don't want to. Proper change needs to happen for Star Wars to have a future.
That arc in Andor is legit one of the best things Star Wars has ever produced, and one of the most effective depictions of the Empire and why people even care about rebelling in the first place. So wild to me that so many longtime Star Wars fans apparently haven’t watched it or did watch and didn’t like it, because no lightsabers I guess 🤷🏼♂️. I’ve even seen ppl say they didn’t like it because what they like about Star Wars is the poorly written, cheesy stuff.
I was reluctant at first to watching andor, since I thought "how good can it be. It's just going to be the same star wars show like the others". I'm so glad that I gave it a chance. I never would've guessed that star wars, especially in their state now could produce something as masterful as Andor. I love it when shows or movies focus more on the characters rather than the plot. I mean we all know what will happen to andor or the galaxy, yet we are still on the edge of our seat while watching this show. Every character is so interesting, even though how small their role is. My favourite is kino, and I hope I'll get to see him in the next season.
God no, please, I don't ever want to see Kino again. I love the ambiguity of whether he survived and made it out or not. That last scene with him and Cassian was perfect and I feel like exploring his fate in any way after that would completely ruin it.
>Starting immediately by telling ppl to watch Andor..
Yeah I feel like I'm gonna like this video.
while I don't hate TLJ, and I do like what it tries to do. I MUCH MUCH prefer Andor's level of writing, Themes, cinematography. Thats its hard for me to look at any star wars project the same again.
Conclusion: Andor is GOOD.
Now that I'm thinking about it, it's a really cool choice to have the prison cells be open, instead of having a locked door. Physically the inmate can exit the cell, but fear of punishment via the floor prevents them. The floor is physically there of course, but the open cells really display the theme that the inmates are more trapped by their own fear and their own hopelessness than just a physical obstacle.
Sleep is for the wEaK
What’s sleep?
I never sleep. Just run.
I love sleep. And being weak. It's fantastic.
Whats also brilliant about the prison sequence is that you see the prison guards disorganization from the very beginning when they bring Cassian in. He sees it as well. And that he does not say anything and the director just shows you him looking back and forth, and then later encouraging a revolt and escape, is part of the brilliance of the show. The acting, the plot, the directing, and particularly the writing, are exemplary here. I could tear apart all other Star Wars franchises and characters and stories, but I'll keep it short by saying, this is the best thing Star Wars has ever produced. The antagonists are just as intricate as the protagonists, and you are kept wondering at times, who is who. It just does not get better than Andor.
Andor's quality is such a bizarre anomaly in the Star Wars Disney+ Sphere. Not a single series on the site before or after has come even close to the quality of the show. I'm convinced that the script was recycled from some darker and grounded new sci-fi IP that never got picked up by a studio and got wrenched into being a Star Wars story by accident.
Possibly not even by accident- might have been a script they got when they bought out Fox, for instance.
Maybe but I choose to believe that Tony and his team really take all the intention in this, remeber, Tony and Diego already where in Rogue One, Andor dosent seem like just a script abandon and pick up later, though, maybe some inspiration may have come from other sources, often writers take from every place and mold to make new thnigs, nothingcomes from the void. Eithe way am extremely happy that Andor got made with all tha quality
I have my own conspiracy theory.
I believe the "Mon Mothma" shown in the show is an avatar for Kathleen Kennedy
First - she needed to gain their trust.
By churning out rubbish Star Wars year after year, she certainly achieved that!
("I'm seen as an irritation")
But ... "when you see the rock in my hand, you miss the knife at your throat"
She stole $250 million dollars from right under their noses - because they thought she was one of them, as we all did. We were all fooled.
"you just walk in there and look like you belong".
She used "Asohka" as cover for her crime of making the best Star Wars in history ... "perhaps you find my version of Star Wars too strong for your taste? ... Smile :))"
I hope this is close to the truth - because otherwise - JUST HOW???
This was a massive project - and I believe word of mouth will make it a massive success for future generations.
Nobody watched Bladerunner when it was first released - now an all-time classic
@@jazzx251 if KK is that way, why couldn't she make every show a banger Star Wars show? Why keep degrading George's characters when she promised to protect them?
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о Because it's her cover ... in order to steal $250 million dollars from the evil Disney Empire, she had to infiltrate them with weak-ass Star Wars shows to gain their confidence.
It worked - she was able to walk up to them and say "I need $250 million"
"What for?"
"Star Wars"
"Ok - there you go ..."
She spat in their food on the way out ...
Please let it be true! - you couldn't make up a better tragic redemption arc if you tried (except in Andor - lol) - I think Kathleen actually wrote Luthen's speech in episode 10:
She knew that she was deliberately ruining Star Wars, in order for Andor to exist - and save Star Wars. The ends justified the means.
"I have made my mind a sunless space
I use the tools of my enemy to defeat them
I sacrifice love, kinship, respect
I'm damned for what I do,
And will never see the light of gratitude
I have sacrificed EVERYTHING - for Star Wars."
Andor was the first Star Wars in a long time that felt like it had real people in it. So yeah, a plot that flows as if real people are making substantive choices matters.
Andor is a prime example of an anti-fascist masterpiece. It perfectly illustrates the deadly efficiency of an evil bureaucracy in a totalitarian state and the horror ordinary citizens without the benefit of being godlike spaze-wizards have to suffer. The empire was never depicted this menacing in all of Star Wars and even a soldier-slaughtering Darth Vader in a spooky hallway (btw one of the best Star Wars scenes ever and by the same creators as Andor) can't beat the horror of living in a giant arbitrarily meat grinder where you get put into endless working camps just out of bad luck. The urge to fight such a system and the understanding for the still to be formed rebel alliance has never been this clear. If Disney really wants to push some political messages, it should be exactly these ones.
I still remember when I watched Andor and I saw the sheer amount of thought put into the prison, it’s systemic oppression and overall design. I thought to myself that this is a badass way to show what an awful regime the Empire truly was. The prison was like a metaphor for how the Empire wanted the entire galaxy to run, make it so everyone is obedient, fearful and obliged to do whatever they could to support the Empire to protect their place under its thumb and have the whole thing be nearly self sustained. It makes even more sense if you have read the Tarkin novel.
The Emperor wanted control so he’d be free to explore the dark side so he and Vader could gain the power to manipulate reality through the Force, but to do that he’d need unrestricted access to all available knowledge, locations and artifacts regarding the Dark side in the galaxy and the time to explore them. The Jedi, the Republic and various governments and people of the galaxy stood in the way of that, thus he believed he needed absolute control. The Empire, the Death Star was all secondary to his true goals.
Like Vader said, “The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.”
Big brain play.
I absolutely do not enjoy sharing a species with adult-age people for whom it is deadass necessary to be explained _that a story's plot _*_actually DOES matter._* ESPECIALLY in regards to themes and conveying them in any decent way.
When I watch a show or movie that I didn't like, I can't always coherently say what it is I didn't like about it, or really make the case for what it is that didn't work. Breakdowns like this often help me work through it, which is something I really appreciate.
Andor was made 50 years too late. The whole series is built like those dystopian scifi films from the 70s and 80s, like Planet of the Apes, Soylent Green, Logan's Run, and of course THX 1138 that somehow is related to Star Wars.
Aka: the "future" our world is heading too right now at lightspeed, this series came at the most perfect time, look around you and let it inspire you when the time comes.
23:00 Mauler called those "neatpicks" and i really like that term. And my opinion when talking about nitpicks vs neatpicks is that it is just as valid to be impressed and pleased with a films attention to the finer details as it is to be disappointed in a films disregard of them.
It's easier to have a cohesive plot in a world that George already world-built a ton. It's hard to do that when all you got is TFA and a bunch of mystery boxes.
Not really, you have the entire EU to rip off but then nobody even tried
Another problem of the LAst Jedi is: if Finn can reach the Star Destroyer from Canto, it means they can reach the rebel fleet, and if they can, the First Order also should be able to. Not to talk about sending a few ships in advance via hyperspace and got them from rear and front. That chase always seemed to me the lamest plot device.
Do you know when you mentioned the guy that was a Storm Trooper in the flagship that had the hyperspace tracker, but never thought of saying that, never saw battle, etc?
The new trilogy is full of these plot holes
Now let's compare it to Andor.
In episode 2 if i an not mistaken, right after we are introduced to Dedra Meero, her supervisor casually mentions he is pleased with the number of detentions in a sector under her charge.
This phrase not even noticed at first viewing of the show, tells us that the ISB is promoting competition to see who gets more detentions.
It's not detentions of rebels or empire haters. It's just detentions they want. Meaning that to look good, imperial ISB officers are probably content in doing several innocents arrests.
Which just ties so well with what happens to Andor later... Arrested for no reason.
Which is also ironic considering not only he got under the radar of the empire who were searching for him (in order to reach Luthen) and at the same time turned someone who just disliked the empire but didn't believe in organized rebellion, in a future rebel captain that helped get the plans for the first death star
Your clip choices and editing are S tier! I hope people realize how much time it takes do that. Well done!
Comparing the writing of andor with the last jedi is like comparing the writing of a classic novel with a wattpad fanfic
It's not a heat floor in the night, it's just a lethal amount of electricity. Calling something with voltage running through it "hot" is common.
anyway Andor is amazing
As much as I'm inclined to agree with the premise of this video, your point about what I think is Poe's arc in TLJ being undercut by the absurdity of Holdo's plan is too unfocused with one too many tangents to really convey your point at all especially when compared to the Andor arc you chose.
I don't know why, but every time I see Kino Loy's speech, I just imagine Polnareff's theme song from JoJo part 5 playing, and the scene gets 10x better.
I love the way you explain what nitpicking actually means. How can anyone think that's a bad thing?
Ppl tend not to like nitpicking bc so many of the ppl who nitpick r doing it in bad faith
The dumbest thing about the Last Jedi is that nearly all of its themes were better explored in the Prequels.
PT is unwatchable, thanks :P
@@chasx7062 thats subjective
@@CRYSTAL_CUSTOMS objectively NO one in their right minds think the PT is any good!!!
I never understand why negative is looked at as a bad thing, especially in the SW fandom at the moment. Whenever I critique something in the Star Wars franchise I’m doing out of the love I have for it and the fact that I want it to do better and I know it absolutely can. God forbid I want something I love to be good and improve on mistakes rather than make the same mistakes over and over again and be stuck in this terrible mess
Excellent video, this is my first time watching your work. Great arguments, very well succinctly laid out, editing is on point with visuals that back up your point. Pointing out the inconsistency of weak-willed critics was very well done. And, to top it all off, you don’t speak in the stereotypical “video essay” voice. You have character and depth of emotion, making it feel like your words are natural and not acted out. I will definitely be checking out more of your videos.
Just a point regarding Poe's arc in TLJ that I rarely see brought up; hindsight proves Poe's actions completely correct but the movie is oblivious to that fact. Had he not disobeyed orders and pulled back instead of destroying the Dreadnaught than the "fleet killer" Dreadnaught and it's long range canons would have been part of the fleet that tracked the Resistance threw Hyperspace and they all would have died. The only thing that Poe did wrong was insobordination.
Yeah, but then the rebels would have had the bomber fleet, and unless you knew about hyperspace tracking tech (WHICH YOU DID NOT), you could jump away all the time
@@chasx7062 Not sure what your point about the bomber fleet is, yeah the bomber fleet would have survived to be completely useless for a little longer before getting wiped out anyway. You think those slow moving and completely unprotected ships would have survived having to make an even LONGER trip to there target?
Doesn't matter if he didn't know about hyperspace tracking. His entire point is that the ship is a fleet killer and that taking it out would save countless lives. He turned out to be correct much sooner than he thought.
@@williamcronshaw5262 Clueless Poe did not take out the Dreadnought BTW, his "useless" bombers and crew who risked their lives to take out ONE dreadnought, which the Empire could have replaced, rebuilt, or just mount the BFG on another ship !!!
Fleet killer it was NOT, we never saw the Dreadnought do anything but two big blasts that didnt even kill the rebels on planet, since they "ran away to fight another day" which is the tactics of hit and run of a hyperspace jump? Duh !!! Star Wars fans are the Dumbest Mofos LOL
@@williamcronshaw5262no he wasn't, more people died in Poes Bombing run than in Cruiser chase. Literally everybody was evacuated into the capital ship except for each ships Captian and they all made it down to crait, where the majority were killed by The battle. Had Poe not used the Bombers they couldn't used them on the surface to fend off the First order Forces approaching on land while the fighters and the falcon lead the ties away. Even the dreadnaught wasn't going to keep up, last Jedi showed us that physics in space don't matter and larger ships are slower meaning that Dreadnaught wouldn't be travelling any faster than the Supremacy was
@@Captianmex1C0 The only reason more people didn't die in the cruiser chase is because they were "just out of range." The Juggernaut ship that Poe destroyed, according to TLJ, is both a fleet killer and is equipped with "long range cannons" that can wipe out an entire base from orbit. For reference; assuming the resistance planet is about the same size as Earth, the distance between the surface and space is approximately 62 miles. That's extremely long range and the Juggernaut is quite a distance away from the planet's atmosphere so it would be even more than that. Considering how badly the resistance fared in the battle without the Juggernaut being present, had it been there they would have been completely annihilated.
This is, of course, ignoring all of the other stupidity in these scenes like the fact that projectiles have unlimited range in space because there's no gravity or wind resistance to slow them down or the fact that the First Order could either have some of their fleet light speed ahead to cut off the Resistance or just call in reinforcements to cut them off. Or the fact that the Resistance ship is faster than the First Order ships because it's "smaller and lighter" even though, once again, no gravity in space means everything is weightless so mass actually has no bearing on speed.
Thank you so much for voicing EXACTLY my similar reactions to both entries!
I get scolded a lot as well for nit-picking media, so I appreciate you sharing my thoughts exactly! Keep up the good work, and know you’re not alone!
"Themes" without a coherent and internally consistent plot is just a sermon. It's the director/writer lecturing you and using the skinsuit of whatever property they're working with to get you in the audience.
A story without themes and/or a moral is a weak story. A story without a plot is just a fortune cookie
Just the fact that we have to make 25-minute video essays about why having a story which actually works is good
Sticking by the general way you title videos "Andor rushed to the hospital to donate me its heart after the Last Jedi stole it in my sleep".
Andor practically grabbed a defibrillation kit, turned the output to full power, and charged us almost to a third degree burn. We finally woke up and our eyes were opened, SW will never be the same and that's a very good thing.
An additional part that makes the Imperial prison arc of Andor great is what the prison itself represents and how it ties back into the thematic throughline. The idea of it was inspired by the Panopticon, which was a real-life blueprint for making prisons much more efficient and in need of less officers, and it was first proposed in the 18th century by an English philosopher named Jeremy Bentham. The main idea is to allow all prisoners of an institution to be observed by a single officer/group of officers, without the inmates knowing whether or not they are being watched. And by implanting the idea that they are being watched at all times when they first come in, they essentially self-regulate and contribute to keeping the group regulated.
It ties back into the themes of the show, like you were saying, but also from a philosophical angle when Cassian's realization, and subsequently rallying cry, for getting the prisoners to work together is the line "Nobody's watching". It says that not only is the Empire being repressive toward its subjects but in a sense, the people are also repressing themselves and other people through social enforcement, and it's also echoed fairly well in Mon Mothma's arc when her daughter is enthusiastically doing the marriage ritual with her friends when it's heavily implied that it will mean the end of her freedom, for example.
My point is, thematic resonance adds a lot more to stories than I think a lot of people realize. It makes the story come full circle and gives another layer through which to explore theming through how it affects multiple people and settings.
“Electrocuted” actually means ‘killed via electrical shock’, though it’s often incorrectly used colloquially to mean “shocked”. They don’t actually get electrocuted for least productivity, they get shocked. Otherwise, great video.
So it's a contraction of _electro-_ and _execution?_ That'd make sense.
What about _electrified_ as a compromise; to be clear he doesn't mean _shocked:_ the emotion.
@@samwallaceart288Or "zapped" if you're low on syllables.
I feel like zapped implies a visible bolt of electricity arcing through the air and hitting someone. It doesn't seem right to me to call what the prisoners experience as being zapped. @@charlesruteal9062
TLJ had that stupid slow motion capital ship chase that just aggravated me. It made zero sense in universe and TOTALLY lacked tension.
I love how TLJ tries to paint Finn as a coward trying to abandon ship when all he's trying to do is warn Rey of the situation. I bet if he actually was allowed to leave and warn her, Luke would have actually been willing to help the Resistance knowing the full situation and they could have turned the tide here.
Which is why he couldn't be allowed to leave- when it comes to plot, Andor uses "therefore" and "but," TLJ uses "AND THEN...!"
Exactly. If he wasn’t talking to the galaxy’s most stubborn, know it all, Uber feminist, he’d have been able to communicate that all he was doing was leaving to warn their most effective warrior that they were in trouble, the rest of their convoluted plot to make Holdo a hero would not have been able to unfold because Luke and Ray would’ve come to their rescue while Poe would likely have pivoted to a plan that was dependent on someone focused on saving their friends instead of an idiot who gets caught up in rescuing a bunch of horses (still blown away that Holdo was considered a hero by the rebellion, instead of a deserter who was 99.999% likely to escape to light speed with her very own warship without being tracked because the empire was sidetracked with murdering all her friends escaping to the planets surface… Admiral Holdo- unluckiest deserter in the history of galactic warfare)
If that happened, Rey wouldn't be manipulated by Kylo. Maybe Finn could discover he had the Force faster too.
If Rose let him leave, the only one who would be worse off would be Kylo Ren and nobody else.
The last 3 mins of this video are beautiful. SUBSCRIBED.
While I haven't watched anything star wars since the kenobi show, it's good to hear that for the briefest of moments some had the for thought to at the very least include a story that not only was cohesive, but looks somewhat like what you'd expect to be Star Wars. That's unfortunately not something you see very often 😕
If you have not watched Andor, you should. It is hands down great television...not just the best written and acted Star Wars. It stands in the same universe as The Expance, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones and The Wire.
Andor, and so far Ashoka, are very good TV shows
This show is the best thing ever happened in Star Wars. One of the best scene for me is "No one is getting out" - it always gives chills
The fact that modern Star Wars can do both these extremes, as well as everything in the middle shows that Lucasfilm does still have it, but they really need to figure out the word: consistency.
Consistency is what makes good production companies, and they just don't have it.
Entirely underrated show with some of the greatest writing to have appeared in Star Wars history, TV or otherwise. Pity so few have seen it
Something that buggs me with the prison arc. Please explain it. So the "clerical error" was that somebody who was supposed to be "released" ended up on the other floor and back at "work". Lets deconstruct the Imperial plan here. If the goal is to keep prisoners indefinitely you cant keep it a secret from the prisoners. The very 1st time this shuffle occurs the prisoner tells everybody "Hey I did my time in the other block." So the secret becomes real obvious real fast. Am I missing something?
It’s possible they have an entire prison for recycling prisoners into that’s stricter or worse than this one, in the opening shot of the prison it’s shown there’s multiple of them in one ocean. It may also be possible it was a genuine mistake showing their incompetence and that this is the first time it’s happened and to avoid further unrest they just killed all of floor two! Or at least that’s what I’ve theorised lol
I loved your analogy about missing the forest for the trees. Very well stated. 22:26
I 100% agree with the points you made on negative criticism having merit. Sometimes something is so backwards or unacceptable that it can be therapeutic to scrutinize it and change people's minds, as long as you don't start a flame war. Standards are a valuable thing. Making intelligent discussion, even with strong dissension, is important if we want to keep evolving/improving a series or art form.
Years ago, I found a top ten list video about a game series I like, and the video counted down the top ten worst stages across the series. I knew something was up when the creator randomly insulted any "unintelligent" viewers who might complain about his choices, and then unfurled a list of arbitrary rules that existed primarily to exclude stages he enjoys or came from his favorite game. It felt like he had a vendetta against certain stages and wrote his criteria so that they were the only ones that he could dishonor, regardless of how poor other stages were. (He mentioned an infamous map but then pardoned it because the villain has a big moustache, for example.) He then started contradicting his own rules more and more as the countdown continued, and by the end of this top ten video, he had condemned 50 stages--the #1 worst stage was an _entire game and a half_ , defeating the whole point of the list. It ticked me off, so I went to the comments to do something about it.
Looking at the comment section, I saw that his audience lapped up everything he said without question. The vast majority thought it was a well-reasoned, professional video. So I wrote a few paragraphs coolly explaining how invalid or ludicrous many of his claims were. While I was met with a couple insults, I was surprised at how many of the fans opened their eyes and became more critical of the TH-camr's attitude/arguments. Some even contributed points to my case. It was incredibly cathartic to see the difference one voice could make in a sea of blindly supportive watchers. Some would say I did a terrible thing by spreading negativity around a happy crowd, but it remains a positive memory for me--far more than if I'd let it go and closed the video without a word.
Hearing you say that having criticisms of kenobi and writing a video about it was cathartic is really interesting to me because now I want to make my own video about the Halo tv show
Honestly, go for it. It can really help you reconcile your issues with the show!
Theory: There are two types of people that watch movies, the objective viewers and the subjective viewers. Two audiences with opinions. When creating a story for the subjective audience a writer always risks losing the objective audience. But if I writer writes for the objective audience then they are really writing for everyone.
Although, the second is much harder and means having pride in one’s work. I hope it’s something we all can remember.
Good video mate.
Andor is a masterpiece. I doubt we will see any SW show this good any soon!
I appreciate the TLJ criticism you present here, particularly in comparison to Andor. I'm a TLJ fan in that it tries to do *something* new in the last trilogy, even if the plotholes are so incomprehensibly common they make The Spot look solid. But that one aspect does not negate the fact that it's got big problems. It's beyond unfortunate when fans cannot conceive of or accept criticism of their fandom subjects - it often correlates with a lack of critical thinking in the meaningful aspects of life.
The issue with that is, don’t try to do something new to an existing 9 part series. You’ve basically just said F everything, fans, stories, etc. make your statement about something new.
@@stazeII I am old enough to remember that this was criticism leveled at The Empire Strikes Back too, lol! Some people just wanted more of the familiar story. How much came before almost doesn't matter.
@@douglasbaker9663 that's fair. But Empire didn't shit all over everything established in ANH. Rian decided to shut throw out everything from TFA and before it and say "to hell with the fanbase"... and then left whomever directed/wrote episode 9 to do something with it. Honestly, I mostly blame leadership at Disney/LucasArts for not actually having enforcing some overarching plot for the final trilogy. That's on Kathleen Kennedy or whomever.
It is a little more original than TFA, although it's largely a copy of ESB. But everything it does is done with the subtlety of a meteor
@@stazeII What exactly did TLJ "throw out" from TFA? Just because he didn't made your theories from TFA come alive in the way you hoped to, doesn't mean he didn't acknowledge it? I'd argue he respected everything in TFA and approached in the best way a second movie in a trilogy can do - by focusing on the characters.
- Rian writing Luke as a hermit, is literally him trying to come up with an explanation to why JJ placed Luke on a remote island and hiding from the war.
- Rey's parents revealed to be nobodies, isn't a middle finger to JJ and the fans that hoped her to be someone special. It's the complete the opposite. The fact that Rey (and the fans) were hoping that she would be related to somebody we already knew, is what makes the reveal that they're nobodies so much more powerful and meaningful for the character of Rey It's Rian saying that Rey has to stand on her own two feet and create her own story to be special and not depended on her heritage.
- Rian didn't throw away Finn's character. He literally gave him a complete side story that wasn't depended on Rey. In TFA, Finn was obseesed with saving Rey and fleeing the first order. Rian he didn't saw him as a rebel at the end of TFA, which is why he made him go through a journey of choosing what side he wants to fight for and for what ideels.
- Neither is the fact that Snoke was killed in TLJ an example of where Rian "threw away" the setups from TFA. It was an awesome choice for the further development of Kylo Ren's character.
If there's anyone who didn't acknowledge the movie that came before it, that would be JJ in the rise of skywalker.
I honestly can't wait for the Clone Wars video🤩
So glad you made a video on this, any opportunity to highlight the brilliance of Andor is time well spent, it just makes we want to go back and re-watch that whole series. I do appreciate some ideas and themes The Last Jedi addresses, but for all its flaws that people bring up regarding how it ruined Star Wars for them, the biggest thing for me was I simply wasn't engaged, I was left feeling bored and wasn't invested throughout a lot of it, and it felt like barely anything happened to push the universe or the wider narrative of the trilogy forward. I remember not seeing the flaws of the Poe plot the first time, but I do remember wondering why was a third of the film dedicated to one of the main heroes learning an out of nowhere lesson and pretty much doing nothing else beyond that, it didn't seem to build upon the prior film or add anything new or interesting. I always felt a disconnect between the ideas that film brought up and the execution/conclusions they came to, and you nailed what it was, a poorly written plot is what undermined them.
Also 19:38 through to the end, really well illustrated.
Thank you, I've had a similar thought process. The plot points and themes of TLJ could have worked if they were logically consistent with the movies that came before and the plot gave the characters an opportunity to present their perspective naturally. The plot was so contrarian it becomes predictable and the characters just say what their thinking, no nuance or intrigue. I've never seen such an unengaging film garner so much controversy.
@@diemes5463 I'll never forget walking out after first seeing it and thinking 'something feels off, did I actually like that movie or not?' and then it hit me that I simply didn't care about anything that happened in it. The whole film is just very grey and dark which I don't think helps, but then the actual story was paper thin, on top of being badly executed. I was so hoping it would take us to new interesting worlds, build out it's own lore and really break the mold, instead it just stalled upon arrival.
Love your first line: 'Grow and change'. Andor quite brilliant.
I appreciate your criticism more greatly than most Star Wars centered TH-camrs because your criticisms actually appeal to me as a writer and are often tangible. People who aren’t familiar with writing and story crafting often give statements about symptoms of the problem rather than piercing the issue or core of the problems. Of course you are the opposite.
Can we also address that it makes no sense that the resistance ship even survived 10 seconds after they were caught because the first order ships had ample fuel and would have been able to hyperspace in front of them and blow them up instead of a 2 hour long slow speed chase
I wish they were compared more often. Because TLJ and Andor have one interesting thing in common, I mean that the plot often uses deconstruction. In Andor, this usually makes sense within the narrative and makes the story more complex and interesting. TLJ... has a problem with that.
This. Deconstruction done right vs bad
TLJ doesn't have a problem with deconstruction. People expected things, and hated that Rain didn't make that things (Rey being nobody, Luke being a human being with flaws and not a demigod always perfect, the idea of burning the old things). A TLJ as the fans would wanted was the worst idea of all
Thank you for saying that Andor is good grown arse entertainment and not some fangirl cameo stuff like a lot of Disney is now.
One of the reasons TLJ's messy plot bugs me so much is...well, I'm a writer. And it's because I'm a writer that I'm naturally drawn to stories that are well-written, well-structured, and well thought out. I do realize that there's no such thing as a fictional story free from imperfection, but the thing about TLJ is that its plot is so nonsensical and all over the place that it legitimately feels like an insult to the audience's intelligence. So yes, pardon me if I don't like it when a movie thinks I'm too brain-dead to enjoy something that actually has thought put into it
I’ve been a TLJ fan since I saw it as a teen because I loved the character arcs, so I never gave too much thought to the plot. I think you made some really good points about its plot in this video, and it made me realize that maybe I never think about TLJ’s plot because it’s just a sandbox for the characters to run around in, and doesn’t really affect anything? Regardless, I love both Andor and TLJ (and plot - please put plot in stories lmao) for different reasons, and I enjoyed this vid! Thanks for sharing!
I REALLY liked Andor (minus some nitpicks).
I had semi-jokingly told friends before I'd love something like a noir detective story on Coruscant or something, but honestly Andor is that show.
Calling you a nitpicker would be wrong since you address entire story flaws and contradictions with themes.
Nitpicking can be petty but you are right. Every part of a whole must be working to make something good.
My biggest regret is not watching Andor as it came out.
You’re better off. That show is boring.
why?
It's a streaming service designed for you to watch whenever you like
It's not like the old days where advertising revenue from "prime time" shows would determine whether they lived or died.
It's about demographics adding "value" to the service
"Only" 1.4 million watched Andor in its first week - roughly in line with the disastrous Ashoka
But those 1.4 million are going to tell their friends about a great show they watched
That adds value to Disney's brand - hence why they think upping their prices massively was justified
And it's not like "the Star Wars demographic" either ..... it may be true that people like me, and perhaps yourself, never watched Mandalorian or Boba Fett, but heard good things about this show that we never had any intention of watching
If that's true - then we ADD to Disney's viewers, on top of the casual Star Wars fans that just want to see some light sabres; - and with a prestigious show like this, add value to the brand.
So - they have existing Star Wars candy-coated rubbish for the kids (so they think) - and Andor for the grown-ups (so they think - my 7-year-old self would have loved Andor WAY more than any other Star Wars, and my schoolfriends as well)
No I’ve seen the show now and it’s really good. Something being “boring” is not a qualifier of the show and only speaks to your attention span.
I’m just saying I wish I watched it so I could talk about the show with everyone else while it came out instead of after the fact.
@@ActuallyAndrewYT if you had watched the first episode alone, would you have still wanted to wait for the next week to watch the second episode?
Nice to see you again man
_Andor_ is really great, and is likely the best Disney-era _Star Wars,_ if you can get over the lack of light sabers and swashbuckling…
my only criticisms:
- the packaging of the arcs into episodes makes the pacing weird… particularly in the middle episodes.
- a few events that were referenced or teased were left out, like Mon Mothma hosting a dinner with the Emperor’s alien girlfriend. that would’ve been cool to see.
- the thing that set off the plot was Cassian’s search for his sister, but after the first arc he basically forgets about her.
- Karn’s arc didn’t really go anywhere… I would’ve liked him to have to brutally kill a Ferrixian (?) to save Meero, or something like that.
- I wanted a bit more from Bix and the rest of the Ferrixians.
- in the first episode, when Cassian goes to set up an alibi with Brasso, we see a wall covered with tons of gloves… the whistle blows and the workers all come out of a big door at once, as if they’re changing shifts at a mine or a factory… but why are their gloves hanging up while they’re at work? don’t they need the gloves for working, and not the other way around?
For your last criticism, since the scene ends with the workers grabbing their gloves and all getting on a transport, I think the whistle blowing was a signal for their shift to *begin* instead of *end.* They could leave their gloves outside to dry while waiting indoors, and the whistle would tell them all that the transport has arrived to take them to their worksite. That's my interpretation at least. But I agree with or at least understand your other criticisms. Even great shows are rarely perfect.
@@darienwest4748 - it’s mostly the pacing one and that they let go of the search for his sister plot that bug me the most… but it’s still great 👌
and about the gloves… it would make sense they grab their gloves to start a shift, but they all come out of the door at once and scatter. one guy on the little speeder lift does say “come on, let’s go!” to Brasso, but it seemed like that was just a shuttle home 🤷🏻♂️ the gloves are meant to be like the tags that miners put up on the board before entering the mine, so if there’s an accident, they’ll know the ones whose tags are still on the board must still be in the mine… it’s a cool reference, I still just think they got it backwards, or chose a silly item to replace tags.
I assume Tony is going somewhere with the whole sister thing in season 2, because I feel like it could be so easily removed from the story, so there must be some more importance to it. for Karn, I really liked his arc, but this is a subjective thing, so I can maybe understand people not liking his arc as nothing of note really happens. For me I really like Karn because we see what kind of person he is in the first 3 episodes, and then we see why he is that type of person. He then further spirals and becomes obsessed with the empire. Obviously, his arc isn't complete and it's quite obvious that his arc in season 1 is completely just set up for whatever he will do in season 2, so I am very excited for whenever that comes out.
The sister part was addressed by the show? She was there originally as a way to start off the whole conflict by giving andor a reason to be at that bar thus attack and kill the guards and ultimately have to flee the planet so that's why she ever existed explained.
As for what happened to his sister then mother figure says to him when he is leaving after the heist and pre prison arc to forget about his sister she never made it out alive, andor was the only survivor and the idea of his sister was always just to make his home being wiped out less painful. Before being told this news about his sister he was busy preparing and then doing the heist, after being told this well he had no reason to look for her since shes yknow, dead, so he settled down on the beach planet before being caught for a crime he didn't commit and from there prison arc etc
@@declangilmour8184 - Maarva (?) told Cassian to give up the hope of finding his sister and accept the fact that she was almost certainly dead… but that was _after_ the Aldhani heist, and it wasn’t a fact, just a likely reality… and Cassian doesn ever really take that advice to heart, at least not where the audience can see.
I’m not expecting his sister to show up finally, alive, in the present… I just wanted him to acknowledge that she’s likely dead, and then maybe use that as motivation for actively fighting the Empire, rather than looking out for himself. one more flashback would’ve been nice (but the flashbacks to Cassian’s childhood didn’t have subtitles, so whatever 🤷🏻♂️), or even just a conversation about her with Bix or something would’ve been fine.
I think what makes The Last Jedi so frustrating to watch is that despite its seemingly important themes about failure blah blah blah it doesn't really have a story to tell. It's 'plot' was just a remix of the old Empire Strikes Back and Return of The Jedi plotline with a slightly different outcome. There are an infinite number of potential stories that they could have gone with but they chose this path in particular because the movie was deliberately made not as a vehicle to tell a profound story but rather as just a set of performances to elicit certain reactions from the audience. By treading familiar ground it manipulates your expectations just so it can flip it around. Unsurprisingly it worked for some people who expected very little from their Star Wars movies and annoys the hell out of the others who felt cheated. Andor in contrast do have a story, and it doesn't really care even if it takes several episodes before it gets to the main plot. Furthermore it adds more layers to the universe instead of just adding more things that will need to be explained later in supplemental materials.
after sleeping on Ahsoka series, I rewatched Andor and confirmed for myself how poorly Ahsoka is written
At least in Andor, people stay dead, and those deaths have consequences.
Depends on the film. Some films or other forms of media are more about the characters then the plot.
I totally agree with you that there's nothing inherently bad with "negative" critique, it's only people that deem it such that it will appear adverse. I discuss a lot of board games, and my critiques are usually removed because they are "against the spirit of the hobby". My main issue with this, is that social media and to an extent, the corporations that run them and their clients (read: advertisers) that pay for their services, want to stiffle any notion of objectivity because it can impact sales and earnings. People don't want to hear "negative" things because they are told that this is not acceptable, and they never see it so they'll believe is malevolent if someone dissent with "popular" opinion. This censorship and filtering of opinions only serve those that want people to consume blindly and obendiently accept what they are fed and told. It's not a conspiracy theory, but it's clear that this actually make it harder for people to understand and accept nuances in the world as they equate only positive opinions as valid and objective opinions. Real objectivity is to have a multifaceted view backed up with evidence, just like you present here. The art we interact with in the real world isn't reviewed by a dicotomy of love/hate, but on a spectrum of appreciation. It's just sad that it's so hard for most believe to understand this as they sit in their little, happy echo chamber.
The writing and overall direction of Andor is leagues ahead of anything the live action SW shows has given us so far & accepting the standards of Ahsoka just isnt going to cut it. Well written scripts go above fan-service any day of the week.
Thanks for calling out all the toxic positivity that’s prevalent in fandoms. This notion that we should just accept mediocrity is frankly absurd.
Watching this show week to week as the episodes released was truly a pleasure. Possibly my favorite Star Wars ever simply because of the raw truth it portrays
The prison arc is best part of Andor
Nah the heist was
Just found your video because algorithms. Genuinely funny video. Didn't expect to laugh as much as I did. Some excellent points sir.
Andor is more then good - it's fantastic. You have to be a OF "Original Fan" to totally appreciate the 70's sci-fi look and feel. I wish there was a bit of comedy, it's very dark, all the time. The prison is a direct reference to Lucas "THX 1138". Frankly Disney nailed it hard. This time, it's really for the old fans who saw the original trilogy in theater. Thx
There are very few Star Wars moments post Episode III where I get teary eyed - hell any show - but this one got me bawling like a baby during the one way out scene - the music, the sadness in Kino’s character, the inspiration from the prisoners - holy f@ck Andor is sooooooooooooo good
Poe Dameron's arc in the last jedi is as follows:
at the start of the movie, poe dameron disobeys orders, and leia frowns. that's bad.
at the end of the movie, poe dameron disobeys orders, and leia smiles. that's good!
'do the thing that makes leia happy' is the central theme of the last jedi, and it fuckin' blows.
You don’t know forest fires
The people who say "plot doesn't matter as long as the theme is good" has no idea what they're talking about.
If that's the case then may I pitch a script?
*Two men sitting at a diner*
Man 1: "Murder is bad."
Man 2: "Yes murder is not good."
The End
Wow that was a really boring story, but the theme was good.
Funny, I thought “plot doesn’t matter as long as the theme is good” describes andor perfectly.
'Member when it wasn't snow, it was salt? My expectations were sooo subverted.