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@@Bazerker same i’ve landed on my face on 75ft jump without neck brace / chest protector and im still alive haha. i think the way i fell i wouldve broken back with brace on but instead i just broke collarbone and internally bled 👍
My unscientific position, based on my cousin dying due to a bike neck injury, is that I will wear one all the time. Fast or slow, it just takes the 1 wrong crash. Yeah I can feel it when I when I need to look up, but that's my reminder that its there ready to do its job...and a small price to pay for that extra protection.
Sorry to hear about your cousin. Losing people to dirtbikes is sickening, but rare thankfully. Such an interesting comment in context with all the other comments. It seems that if people know people who have had catastrophic neck injuries they are much more open to wearing one. Did you see our first vid about this topic? We mention a similar story (injury, not death).
My Leatt neck brace saved my life. I ended up with a collarbone fracture instead of paralysis. Maybe obtain professional help to find the right brace and fit it correctly then ride for a few hours and acclimatise. I know its worth it.
Thank you for sharing. I'll take a collarbone fracture EVERY SINGLE TIME. I'm not sure guys realize the reality of how devastating spinal injuries can be - for you, but also your family and friends. We have a fitting with Leatt this spring (pending COVID) so our gang here are excited to see what can be done.
It depends on your body size/type. If you are shorter or have a disproportionally short neck, it will most likely restrict you. I'm 195cm with a proportionally long neck. It never restricts me on steep uphills or downhills and I don't really feel that I'm wearing one. I'm using GPX 5.5 and GPX 4.5 with a 6D ATR2 helmet. I have some shorter friends who stopped wearing one, since the back of the brace was restricting them too much.
Totally makes sense. We have a Leatt fitting with the rep this spring (barring COVID) and we are all very interested to see how it goes. We all have very different sized necks, shoulders, height/weight, etc.
I've been wearing one for two seasons. I can't remember running into your example problem. I might have and just not remembered. Yes, they can restrict airflow which is kinda bad in hot weather. I can't look down at the wheels, such as when I stall on a climb and need to see if there is a rock in front of my tire. I also have not seen any solid science justifying them. But so far, I wear it.
I think that NBs make some sense for the segments of offroad where the speeds are elevated and the terrain is not so much. MX, SX, Desert, and GNCC. For more traditional enduro and hard enduro I see it has a less needed piece of gear. The inflatables that we have available now in road racing are a good solution but I fear that offroad riders fall off too often for them to be practical. If they could be programmed to only go off in certain types of falls that would be swell but what type of fall is that??? For now I will risk it and go commando
Going commando is certainly an option but how is that going to protect your neck? It seems like that would be prone to chafing? Don't you worry about monkey butt? Crotch rot?
I have more range of motion now with my Alpinestars brace & chest protector, so it’s a non issue for me. If it’s a choice of being inconvenienced or crippled, I’m wearing the neck brace!
Great point to your comment. There used to be a public service announcement in Canada in the 80s when they were edumacating the public about seat belt use. The lady complained that the seat belt wrinkled her blouse. In the next scene she was in a wheelchair and her personal attendant was fastening the seat belt in her wheelchair, obviously after a motor vehicle accident put her in the chair. The attendant said something like, "We don't want this wrinkling your blouse no do we".
While desert racing last month, I noticed that while in the "attack" position my Leatt neck brace did make it to where I couldn't lift my head as high as I wanted to. I do like having the extra peace of mind I suppose, but have found the brace to limit my ability to look around as much as I'd like to.
Yep, like everything it is a compromise. There are a lot of thoughtful comments that argue and illustrate what guys are doing and how they came to that conclusion. Fun to read and food for thought. Thanks for sharing!
I have one. I don’t wear it, but I go back and forth about if I should. One reason I don’t is I always had this feeling that it could be forced back right on my larynx and crush it.
I feel ya. I used to stare at my brace at the bottom of my bag and decide if I needed to ride it that day. A moral and ethic battle in my head as everyone was getting ready. I'd either say F it or put it on. Not like I have one iota of control over the ACCIDENT.
Damn, never even thought about damaging the larynx. Ever heard of it happening? I just googled around and only found two cases where guys said it pushed into their throat during a crash. The rest are just comments saying it could happen....
@@crosstrainingenduro I’ve haven’t heard of one happening, but just wearing it, even with the body straps, or seated in a compatible armor vest, I always kind of felt it could. If I push back on.the front it slides pretty easily right up against my throat. I decided to give it a pass. I might just be paranoid about something that would be a freak occurrence though.
Riding tight trials. Done a lot of tumbling down steep hills. For sure, neck my brace has saved me from injuries. I have a Leatt, and don't feel it while riding. I now feel "naked" without it.
For MX riding, I wear my atlas... It still contacts my helmet. But, the speeds and the chance for a big impact is high. It is way too intrusive off-road, we use more body language on the trails it seems. So, I don't wear it so I can actually move and control the bike, which in itself reduces the chance of a crash.
That's my thought process. Whatever gear I wear needs to be as comfortable and unubtrusive as possible so I always wear it and doesn't add to me crashing. Looking at armor shirts and such. Helmet and g12 boots though due to how often and dangerous the crash is to those areas.
Another problem with them is if you have to duck under a branch, the brace will make you either hit the branch or end up looking straight down. I shelved mine, after two short rides.
I h ave never used a neck brace and i didn't wear a helmet until i was 17 ,i first started to ride when i was about 13 years old.Back when we were young we didn't think about getting injured ,we just ride all day on the weekends even when it was raining
I don't understand why they just don't design the neck brace so it will stop your neck from going past it's natural range of motion instead of limiting it? Has anyone thought of this?
My self and most guys I ride with wear the Atlas brace. I have never had the problems that you describe and I pretty much live in the hills of Wentworth on a dirt bike during ride season. I do know guys that have broken their neck (one ended up in a halo for months) and I really want to avoid that! I think helmet choice becomes more important when wearing a brace as some are very pronounced fore and aft just for the brace but they likely do limit fore and aft movement more so than other brands/models.
Maybe I have an unfortunately long neck, but I hardly even notice that I'm wearing my EVS, even in the tall position, with my Leatt helmet. I ride purely offroad and trails and have never experienced the 'Help, I can't look up' feeling. I have, however, had two incidents now where I have distinctly felt the brace engage while tumbling. Based on the trajectory of flight, I knew it was going to hurt, but then I felt the brace engage and at least my neck came out ok.
Yep, we have a fitting with Leatt this season so I am excited to see what can be done for our motley crew of misfits. Short necks, long necks and hairy necks.
For sure. I'd never run one due to restriction. As a top regional racer I would never allow the potential for something slowing me down even a tiny bit. Speed is the only thing I'm looking for. I wouldn't even run a fanny pack, much less a back pack. Neck injuries are rare considering all the miles ridden.
Great point. Do you know any off-road guy on the race circut who wear one? We NEVER get to talk with racers so thanks for commenting and offering your background!
I bought an EVS, but it’s way too restrictive with my Alpinestars armour and Airoh helmet. It’s great without the armour but no good with it. What’s more important? I think the Leatt neck braces fit better with their Leatt armour so I’ll try that combo on next time I’m in the shop. You can’t mix and match different brands very well. It all has to integrate properly. It would be good if the neck braces were more adjustable.
We have a Leatt fitting with the rep this spring (barring COVID) and we are all very interested to see how it goes. We all have very different sized necks, shoulders, height/weight, etc.
I'll never ride without again. Riding slow single overgrown tracks in Wales I ducked my head to pass under some leaves. Suddenly I was flung with great force over the back of the bike and I landed on my back not knowing what happened. Turned out that behind those innocent looking leaves was a branch hidden the size of my upper leg. It just glanced the top of my helmet flinging me off. My neck muscles were all 'hot' from the impact. If they were 'hot' without over extension I dread to think what would have happened without the neckbrace. Though anecdotal I'm convinced the neck brace prevented me from serious injury. I did notice that the neckbraces in this video are mostly worn the wrong way with body armor. I see Leatt braces stuffed underneath the Alpine Bionic back protector. I have both but they do not mix and are uncomfortable. Either wear an Alpine brace with an Alpine Bionic with the removable upper back padded panel for BNS compatibility removed so that the neck proctector sits on top or Leatt NB with Leatt body protection I use the Leatt Neck Brace with the Leatt Airfit body armor and here also there's some padding in the body protector you need to remove. The neckbrace sits on top of the armor, not underneath. It's the way Leatt says it should be worn, it allows for some movement and makes it relatively comfortable. The Alpine Bionic body protector I use for trials without a neckbrace.
Thanks for the great comment. We have a fitting with Leatt coming up and are excited to explore better fitment. Everyone seems to say the same thing - match your brace with your armor and helmet. Makes sense!
Seen people get hurt because of the neck braces (collar bones snapped) on relatively light crashes, and heard of them snapping necks in side hits. Never would run one.
The problem with all of this (both sides - for and against) is that everyone seems to have a story that slants one way or the other. If you check out the comments, lots of guys have been "saved", lots of guys have stories like yours. I guess we'll never have definitive evidence... mind you, I'll take a collar bone 110% of the time over C-SPINE. Not even the same category of injury.
@@TractioneRag Yep, so much of the anecdotal evidence really needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I've heard so many guys say 'My neck brace saved my life!' Maybe it actually did. But guys have been walking away from horrific crashes for years without neck braces and everyone thought they'd have to break their neck with the impact. We need more actual research and possibly less anecdotes!
I think the biggest problem with neck braces or at least for me it is the "almost" one size fits all. My neck is so short that when i have the brace on i can barley move my head around with out hitting the brace. On top of that i have a rather wide chest and broad shoulders that the brace never sits properly.
Last time I was wearing my NB was on Erzberg prolog. Fastest speed was some 140km/h. So there the NB made absolute sense to me. In Hard Enduro situations it bugs me when I want to look at my Back wheel searching for traction. So I only use it in really fast stuff.
@@TractioneRag Only Prolog ;-) You have to be fast to come under the 500 best for racing the hare scramble. But I wanted at least one time to be there on the start :-)
@@TractioneRag No, I was about 1min too slow. But I was the fastest in my Gang :-) You know, as everywere, if you have good luck (or good connections..) you get a low starting no. I was starting as #1325, and by then the track was already looking like Verdun 1916. But, if i ever start there again, I am sure to be faster, since the track is mostly quite similar. Anyway, with my weary EXC 530 (MY08) and my also little weary 53 Years I still left 700 guys behind me :-))
WOOOOOOHOOOOOOO. I feel like I was there with you. Gave me chills. Especially thinking about that 530 opened up and your Verdun reference was magnificent. The competition portion of would have my adrenaline hitting the rev limiter. Great story, thank you for sharing!
I have a Leatt brace and have no issues looking uphill. I barely notice that I'm wearing it for the most part. And yes, it's set up correctly. I can't describe why it works for me other than maybe different body or bike ergonomics?
Crushed a helmet and my T4 wearing a brace. Probably saved my neck.. But... I feel they really lock you into a fixed position and it makes it difficult to do a forward roll. Try and do a forward roll in the grass with your helmet and gear on, not easy but possible. Now try it wearing a neck brace...it it almost impossible. So I wonder if for low speed they can actually hinder your motion to roll out, I accept at high speed you have no time or awareness and that is a different situation. My crash was a OTB at relative slow speed at a Downhill Mountain bike race. Pole drived into the ground and wasn't able to tuck and roll, something that I've practiced in martial arts. So I think it saved my neck from the forces applied, but would those same forces even have happened without the brace? I still wear one downhill mtb riding. Tried on the moto and for bush riding, hated it. So I'm really undecided on their value. I'm usually a don't skimp on safety guy, but I just don't know, and I've lived through a serious injury wearing one.
This is such an interesting comment. Thank you for sharing. No need to mention this as I'm sure you've had lots of time to think it over but I'll say it anyway. If it didn't save your neck you may be in a very different situation as you typed out that comment? That is what stand out to me. Please smack me down if I have overstepped or got it wrong.
@@TractioneRag definitely thankful for the brace, after that accident, despite it looking in good condition I went and bought a brand new brace. Like I said I still wear it but downhill mtb doesn't have the same elevation and orientation changes that dirtbiking does so for the same reasons you mention in the video I couldn't come to grips with it on my motorcycle.
Had one found as described can not see the top of next hill climb so discarded it. However did wear one for my tip of australia ride. Hi speed sand and congregations .
I would say DS and ADV riders should wear one all the time. Add speed and not a lot of gnarly terrain and dramatic elevation changes and braces make sense!
I tried one years ago and had a pretty nasty get off, it acted as a lever and fucked my neck up! I have since not used a neck brace And have had many crashes in offroad racing and no issues thankfully. My thought are if you land so you are torqueing your neck in the perfect direction during a crash it will result with or without a brace I preferr my neck flex more vs. Snapping as the brace acts like a corner to break your knock on. Put your elbow on a 90° corner and have a friend pull lightly......get my point????🙄
what if it was more of a suspension type deal where hitting it hard has less give but gently looking up allows it to move easier for situations like this?
I've never had a problem looking up at even the steepest of hills. I wear an Atlas brace all the time.....my best friend wears a Leatt as does my kid....they've never mentioned it either. And we always wear our neck braces when we ride. Must be the Neanderthal short/squat necks of the ERaggers that is causing the problem. Oh....and you should be looking ahead further.....like don't wait till you're in the gulley before you start scanning the impending hill climb. LOL
I’ve tried most of the brands with a few different helmets and have that exact issue. Fine on the track, but not off road. I have a short neck and need an adjustable neck brace. Because of my short neck my helmet hitting my chest protector actually somewhat does the job of a neck brace.
I'd say check out Ryan Hughes' videos addressing neck braces. I agree with his POV as they force bad posture and fundamentals which put the rider in a compromised position from the start. A good setup and solid technique will let you avoid 90% of bad situations. That other 10% I'd say is split between riding beyond your skill level and just plain old bad luck. Would never tell someone to take it off but personally I see it as more of a liability.
I mean he didn't wear one and got paralyzed 3 times now. An individual can talk their opinions but a more accurate picture of whether to wear one would be looking at studies. Obviously they dont make you invincible, and maybe in certain impacts they may possibly result in more injuries than not having worn one, just like there have have been cases of people not wearing seatbelts surviving a car crash because they were ejected.
I think the atlas is the only one worth wearing. All other neck braces are garbage and limit your movement. The atlas separates the spine instead of sitting right on it, I’ve never had restriction from it and I’m not a super skinny guy either, it moves with the crash, and it has suspension like movement when I sits on your chest in case of a tuck and roll. I’m highly against any other brace just as much as ryno but the atlas I feel is a huge exception. I’ve had pictures taken at the local track of me in just about every position and my head was never restricted besides going thru whoops but we don’t really have any at local tracks so I’m not worried about that nor was I put in a bad riding position. I run a shoei and tld se4
My Alpinestar neck brace prevents forward motion (looking down) more than looking up. It also limits side to side tilt. I found this took some getting time to make adjustments to my routines....but, now I do not really notice it at all. Living in Ontario we only experience small changes in elevation but this has not been a problem. I hate leaving safety equipment in my truck or in the gear bag. The odds breaking my short thick neck are very small but, the cost is very high.
I also used to wear a neck brace and have since tossed it. somewhere?? I found in order to gain some of my line of sight back, I had to bend more at the knees instead of the hips. This put me in a bad position on the bike and set up some other dangerous situations for me. So money wasted in my opinion.
...and, everyone has to make their own choices of what they are comfortable with, what risks they are willing to assume and accepting the consequences of their choices, whatever the outcome. (I'm not trying to make that seem dire, really).
Have owned in the past. Lack of up hill vision is why I don’t own one now. The pin it to win it philosophy work’s right up until the talent runs out and it usually ends in a blaze of hilariously timed explicit words 🤬🤣
I will NOT WEAR IT.... lots of top pro mx riders are breaking their collarbone or breaking their backs. Seem it happen to a 14 year old on a 85cc at our local mx track. So in my 41 years of riding dirtbikes and years of Downhill mountain bike riding and free riding no serious neck injuries or broken collarbones. Don't use it.
We need the “hold my beer neck brace” That is conveniently brought out for those moments of impulse and stupidity that require a pre-assessment of one’s genitalia. Are my gonads big enough and do I reach in my pack to put this thing on?
Your chest protection is bulky, you have one of the largest helmets on the market, you have an older model of the neck brace, you seem to be a shorter fellow with a short neck... So many different elements going on here. Neck brace is not for everyone, but you can get it quite comfortable with different combinations. Steward Baylor and for example Josep Garcia seem to be allright with the neck brace in offroad lol.
I'm honestly on and off with mine. I see the argument from both sides. I have an Atlas and it seems like they are the least instrusive of the bunch. Is it annoying for some situations?...Yes. At old man singletrack speeds, is the potential for a neck injury reduced?.....Sure. Can it break collarbones?..... Absolutely, I pretty sure that's the intent by design, it transfers the impact force away from your neck to the lower contact points of the brace. Better a broken collarbone than a broken neck I guess. I use to wear mine pretty religiously but lately I've found myself leaving in the gear bag more often then not. My reasoning for this? As I've gotten a little better at riding (I'm still atrocious) I find myself falling less and when I do fall it's usually at pretty low speed trying to some technical terrain. Could this reasoning come back to bite me?.....oh yeah!
I'm poor so I haven't tried a NB but if one of you wealthy reprobates will mail me yours instead of throwing 'em away, I'll give you the ultimate review. You could also send me one of them purty dirt bikes with the knobbly tyres you rich folks ride so I can get up enough speed to face plant a pine tree and give it a real test.
I wear the leatt 5.5 brace and leatt's 6.5 helmet. I don't really even notice any issues with looking up like everyone mentions. The helmet is designed to wear a brace with so maybe the notch in the back bottom of the helmet gives enough clearance to allow me to look upwards.
I was wearing one during this nasty, downhill high-side, and was very glad for it - it's a Leatt 5.5. th-cam.com/video/umSCb6WTh5w/w-d-xo.html I found that the adjusters on the front and back of the brace were more than enough to allow me movement and protection, side to side forward and back, without much trouble.
This whole conversation is stupid. Do football shoulder pads prevent all injuries? What about helmets? No they don’t. But they protect from certain/specific injuries. Same with Leary style neck braces. They protect from specific types of injuries. Namely the ones where you head snaps one direction and can crank on your neck. That’s it. People need to be smarter.
Unscientific analysis by a ex pro rider th-cam.com/video/z83D5fcEXVA/w-d-xo.html The pry-bar effect is an unnerving prospect. Also, doesn't Meggs still wear one? I think she just got a new Leatt.
I think pro riders know as much about spines as a average neurologist/orthopods/kinesiologist knows about riding dirtbikes. Nothing personal with that guy but I've read so many opinions on neck braces by so many people in the last two months I realize that it is just another opinon. IMO, there is no evidence in either direction, but man oh man, lots of strong opinions. Megs got one and it's the wrong size so I have it here - I think it is a XL maybe? I'm going to see if it fits, you are welcome to as well. We're having a Leatt fitting at some point!
@@TractioneRag he was just offering his observation on actual injuries he's seen when neck braces started being used in the sport. The problem with doctors is they only see sick/injured people, they don't know what people are actually doing outside their little world's. Also I believe he was referring to what surgeons told him.
If the data doesn't come from a controlled study that adheres to scientific method it's just an opinion or hypothesis. That goes for the doctors as well. They carry just as much bias as every other human. I don't think we'll every get definitive answers about braces as it is impossible to control for crash variables. I've never been in a crash that was just like another one.
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Neck brace saved my life. Landed straight down on my head after going over the bars. Neck crunched until the brace bottomed out. 100% saved me.
That's great feedback! I was wondering if anyone had a "save me" experience. AND I KNOW THEM! Heh heh.
I've done the same without a brace????
What saved me???
@@Bazerker Perhaps luck.
@@Bazerker same i’ve landed on my face on 75ft jump without neck brace / chest protector and im still alive haha. i think the way i fell i wouldve broken back with brace on but instead i just broke collarbone and internally bled 👍
Doesn’t leatt say directly landing on your head they won’t do anything?
My unscientific position, based on my cousin dying due to a bike neck injury, is that I will wear one all the time. Fast or slow, it just takes the 1 wrong crash. Yeah I can feel it when I when I need to look up, but that's my reminder that its there ready to do its job...and a small price to pay for that extra protection.
Sorry to hear about your cousin. Losing people to dirtbikes is sickening, but rare thankfully. Such an interesting comment in context with all the other comments. It seems that if people know people who have had catastrophic neck injuries they are much more open to wearing one. Did you see our first vid about this topic? We mention a similar story (injury, not death).
My Leatt neck brace saved my life. I ended up with a collarbone fracture instead of paralysis. Maybe obtain professional help to find the right brace and fit it correctly then ride for a few hours and acclimatise. I know its worth it.
Thank you for sharing. I'll take a collarbone fracture EVERY SINGLE TIME. I'm not sure guys realize the reality of how devastating spinal injuries can be - for you, but also your family and friends. We have a fitting with Leatt this spring (pending COVID) so our gang here are excited to see what can be done.
It depends on your body size/type. If you are shorter or have a disproportionally short neck, it will most likely restrict you. I'm 195cm with a proportionally long neck. It never restricts me on steep uphills or downhills and I don't really feel that I'm wearing one. I'm using GPX 5.5 and GPX 4.5 with a 6D ATR2 helmet. I have some shorter friends who stopped wearing one, since the back of the brace was restricting them too much.
Totally makes sense. We have a Leatt fitting with the rep this spring (barring COVID) and we are all very interested to see how it goes. We all have very different sized necks, shoulders, height/weight, etc.
I've been wearing one for two seasons. I can't remember running into your example problem. I might have and just not remembered. Yes, they can restrict airflow which is kinda bad in hot weather. I can't look down at the wheels, such as when I stall on a climb and need to see if there is a rock in front of my tire. I also have not seen any solid science justifying them. But so far, I wear it.
Love it. Thanks for sharing!
That’s probably that smartest decision, even if you don’t like it, wear it anyway
I’ve never had these issues with my atlas neck brace. Fitment is obviously everything. Some braces restrict more motion that others.
It appears that having matching brands seems to work best. We haven't been that intelligent up to this point.
I think that NBs make some sense for the segments of offroad where the speeds are elevated and the terrain is not so much. MX, SX, Desert, and GNCC. For more traditional enduro and hard enduro I see it has a less needed piece of gear. The inflatables that we have available now in road racing are a good solution but I fear that offroad riders fall off too often for them to be practical. If they could be programmed to only go off in certain types of falls that would be swell but what type of fall is that??? For now I will risk it and go commando
Going commando is certainly an option but how is that going to protect your neck? It seems like that would be prone to chafing? Don't you worry about monkey butt? Crotch rot?
@@TractioneRag the video of rally men crashing at low speed show that even low speed is harmfull
I have more range of motion now with my Alpinestars brace & chest protector, so it’s a non issue for me. If it’s a choice of being inconvenienced or crippled, I’m wearing the neck brace!
Great point to your comment. There used to be a public service announcement in Canada in the 80s when they were edumacating the public about seat belt use. The lady complained that the seat belt wrinkled her blouse. In the next scene she was in a wheelchair and her personal attendant was fastening the seat belt in her wheelchair, obviously after a motor vehicle accident put her in the chair. The attendant said something like, "We don't want this wrinkling your blouse no do we".
While desert racing last month, I noticed that while in the "attack" position my Leatt neck brace did make it to where I couldn't lift my head as high as I wanted to. I do like having the extra peace of mind I suppose, but have found the brace to limit my ability to look around as much as I'd like to.
Yep, like everything it is a compromise. There are a lot of thoughtful comments that argue and illustrate what guys are doing and how they came to that conclusion. Fun to read and food for thought. Thanks for sharing!
I have one. I don’t wear it, but I go back and forth about if I should. One reason I don’t is I always had this feeling that it could be forced back right on my larynx and crush it.
I feel ya. I used to stare at my brace at the bottom of my bag and decide if I needed to ride it that day. A moral and ethic battle in my head as everyone was getting ready. I'd either say F it or put it on. Not like I have one iota of control over the ACCIDENT.
Damn, never even thought about damaging the larynx. Ever heard of it happening? I just googled around and only found two cases where guys said it pushed into their throat during a crash. The rest are just comments saying it could happen....
@@crosstrainingenduro I’ve haven’t heard of one happening, but just wearing it, even with the body straps, or seated in a compatible armor vest, I always kind of felt it could. If I push back on.the front it slides pretty easily right up against my throat. I decided to give it a pass. I might just be paranoid about something that would be a freak occurrence though.
Never owned one, something to look into in the future maybe
It is worth reading through the comments - there are lots of great thoughts/considerations.
Riding tight trials. Done a lot of tumbling down steep hills. For sure, neck my brace has saved me from injuries. I have a Leatt, and don't feel it while riding. I now feel "naked" without it.
Totally get the naked thing. I can't ride without my knee braces. It makes me feel so vulnerable.
For MX riding, I wear my atlas... It still contacts my helmet. But, the speeds and the chance for a big impact is high.
It is way too intrusive off-road, we use more body language on the trails it seems. So, I don't wear it so I can actually move and control the bike, which in itself reduces the chance of a crash.
Yep, plus, speeds are down on the trails (for most of us) so it seems less likely (but still possible!).
That's my thought process. Whatever gear I wear needs to be as comfortable and unubtrusive as possible so I always wear it and doesn't add to me crashing.
Looking at armor shirts and such. Helmet and g12 boots though due to how often and dangerous the crash is to those areas.
Boots and helmet are key! Most of us are running Leatt armor now.
Another problem with them is if you have to duck under a branch, the brace will make you either hit the branch or end up looking straight down. I shelved mine, after two short rides.
It is a tough thing to get used to. We're trying!
Saved me many times, as recent as last week. Rolled down a hill with my helmet hitting the deck several times😬
Great to hear! Hoping to have a brace working in 2021!
"Dirt, sky, dirt, sky, dirt, sky, dirt, ow!"?
HAHAHA. Funny how all dirtbikes know that routine!
I h ave never used a neck brace and i didn't wear a helmet until i was 17 ,i first started to ride when i was about 13 years old.Back when we were young we didn't think about getting injured ,we just ride all day on the weekends even when it was raining
Same. My parents didn't put a helmet on me until I was 15. Workboots, jeans, a t-shirt and one glove (throttle hand). The freedoms we used to have!
Here’s my issue. i had a really bad crash and had a neck brace on. i broke a lot of things but the doctor said my neck would’ve been broken.
I don't understand why they just don't design the neck brace so it will stop your neck from going past it's natural range of motion instead of limiting it? Has anyone thought of this?
My self and most guys I ride with wear the Atlas brace. I have never had the problems that you describe and I pretty much live in the hills of Wentworth on a dirt bike during ride season. I do know guys that have broken their neck (one ended up in a halo for months) and I really want to avoid that! I think helmet choice becomes more important when wearing a brace as some are very pronounced fore and aft just for the brace but they likely do limit fore and aft movement more so than other brands/models.
We have a sizing day with Leatt in the spring so we are excited to see if that makes a difference!
Maybe I have an unfortunately long neck, but I hardly even notice that I'm wearing my EVS, even in the tall position, with my Leatt helmet. I ride purely offroad and trails and have never experienced the 'Help, I can't look up' feeling. I have, however, had two incidents now where I have distinctly felt the brace engage while tumbling. Based on the trajectory of flight, I knew it was going to hurt, but then I felt the brace engage and at least my neck came out ok.
Yep, we have a fitting with Leatt this season so I am excited to see what can be done for our motley crew of misfits. Short necks, long necks and hairy necks.
The right combination of helmet and brace pretty much makes that issue go away.
We are hoping that is the case - we have a sizing with Leatt in the spring! Excited.
For sure. I'd never run one due to restriction. As a top regional racer I would never allow the potential for something slowing me down even a tiny bit. Speed is the only thing I'm looking for. I wouldn't even run a fanny pack, much less a back pack. Neck injuries are rare considering all the miles ridden.
Great point. Do you know any off-road guy on the race circut who wear one? We NEVER get to talk with racers so thanks for commenting and offering your background!
After three collar bone brakes I threw my brace and feel so much better without, and I now see Marvin Musquin has stopped wearing his.
I bought an EVS, but it’s way too restrictive with my Alpinestars armour and Airoh helmet. It’s great without the armour but no good with it. What’s more important? I think the Leatt neck braces fit better with their Leatt armour so I’ll try that combo on next time I’m in the shop. You can’t mix and match different brands very well. It all has to integrate properly. It would be good if the neck braces were more adjustable.
We have a Leatt fitting with the rep this spring (barring COVID) and we are all very interested to see how it goes. We all have very different sized necks, shoulders, height/weight, etc.
One size dont fit all very specific for neck braces
I'll never ride without again. Riding slow single overgrown tracks in Wales I ducked my head to pass under some leaves. Suddenly I was flung with great force over the back of the bike and I landed on my back not knowing what happened.
Turned out that behind those innocent looking leaves was a branch hidden the size of my upper leg. It just glanced the top of my helmet flinging me off.
My neck muscles were all 'hot' from the impact. If they were 'hot' without over extension I dread to think what would have happened without the neckbrace. Though anecdotal I'm convinced the neck brace prevented me from serious injury.
I did notice that the neckbraces in this video are mostly worn the wrong way with body armor.
I see Leatt braces stuffed underneath the Alpine Bionic back protector. I have both but they do not mix and are uncomfortable.
Either wear an Alpine brace with an Alpine Bionic with the removable upper back padded panel for BNS compatibility removed so that the neck proctector sits on top or Leatt NB with Leatt body protection
I use the Leatt Neck Brace with the Leatt Airfit body armor and here also there's some padding in the body protector you need to remove. The neckbrace sits on top of the armor, not underneath. It's the way Leatt says it should be worn, it allows for some movement and makes it relatively comfortable.
The Alpine Bionic body protector I use for trials without a neckbrace.
Thanks for the great comment. We have a fitting with Leatt coming up and are excited to explore better fitment. Everyone seems to say the same thing - match your brace with your armor and helmet. Makes sense!
Seen people get hurt because of the neck braces (collar bones snapped) on relatively light crashes, and heard of them snapping necks in side hits. Never would run one.
The problem with all of this (both sides - for and against) is that everyone seems to have a story that slants one way or the other. If you check out the comments, lots of guys have been "saved", lots of guys have stories like yours. I guess we'll never have definitive evidence... mind you, I'll take a collar bone 110% of the time over C-SPINE. Not even the same category of injury.
@@TractioneRag Yep, so much of the anecdotal evidence really needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I've heard so many guys say 'My neck brace saved my life!' Maybe it actually did. But guys have been walking away from horrific crashes for years without neck braces and everyone thought they'd have to break their neck with the impact. We need more actual research and possibly less anecdotes!
I think the biggest problem with neck braces or at least for me it is the "almost" one size fits all. My neck is so short that when i have the brace on i can barley move my head around with out hitting the brace. On top of that i have a rather wide chest and broad shoulders that the brace never sits properly.
We're having a fitting with Leatt coming up and CAN NOT WAIT to see what happens. We have many of the same complaints.
@@TractioneRag looking forward for that video!
Last time I was wearing my NB was on Erzberg prolog. Fastest speed was some 140km/h. So there the NB made absolute sense to me. In Hard Enduro situations it bugs me when I want to look at my Back wheel searching for traction. So I only use it in really fast stuff.
WHOA - EB prolog! Very cool... : )
@@TractioneRag Only Prolog ;-) You have to be fast to come under the 500 best for racing the hare scramble. But I wanted at least one time to be there on the start :-)
Were you on the start line? Did you qualify?
@@TractioneRag No, I was about 1min too slow. But I was the fastest in my Gang :-) You know, as everywere, if you have good luck (or good connections..) you get a low starting no. I was starting as #1325, and by then the track was already looking like Verdun 1916. But, if i ever start there again, I am sure to be faster, since the track is mostly quite similar. Anyway, with my weary EXC 530 (MY08) and my also little weary 53 Years I still left 700 guys behind me :-))
WOOOOOOHOOOOOOO. I feel like I was there with you. Gave me chills. Especially thinking about that 530 opened up and your Verdun reference was magnificent. The competition portion of would have my adrenaline hitting the rev limiter. Great story, thank you for sharing!
I have a Leatt brace and have no issues looking uphill. I barely notice that I'm wearing it for the most part. And yes, it's set up correctly.
I can't describe why it works for me other than maybe different body or bike ergonomics?
Great comment. It may be body type, gear brands, etc. We have a fitting with Leatt coming up and can't wait for a solution!
Crushed a helmet and my T4 wearing a brace. Probably saved my neck..
But...
I feel they really lock you into a fixed position and it makes it difficult to do a forward roll. Try and do a forward roll in the grass with your helmet and gear on, not easy but possible. Now try it wearing a neck brace...it it almost impossible.
So I wonder if for low speed they can actually hinder your motion to roll out, I accept at high speed you have no time or awareness and that is a different situation.
My crash was a OTB at relative slow speed at a Downhill Mountain bike race. Pole drived into the ground and wasn't able to tuck and roll, something that I've practiced in martial arts.
So I think it saved my neck from the forces applied, but would those same forces even have happened without the brace?
I still wear one downhill mtb riding.
Tried on the moto and for bush riding, hated it.
So I'm really undecided on their value. I'm usually a don't skimp on safety guy, but I just don't know, and I've lived through a serious injury wearing one.
This is such an interesting comment. Thank you for sharing. No need to mention this as I'm sure you've had lots of time to think it over but I'll say it anyway. If it didn't save your neck you may be in a very different situation as you typed out that comment? That is what stand out to me. Please smack me down if I have overstepped or got it wrong.
@@TractioneRag definitely thankful for the brace, after that accident, despite it looking in good condition I went and bought a brand new brace. Like I said I still wear it but downhill mtb doesn't have the same elevation and orientation changes that dirtbiking does so for the same reasons you mention in the video I couldn't come to grips with it on my motorcycle.
Makes perfect sense. We have one more vid in this series coming....
Had one found as described can not see the top of next hill climb so discarded it.
However did wear one for my tip of australia ride.
Hi speed sand and congregations .
I would say DS and ADV riders should wear one all the time. Add speed and not a lot of gnarly terrain and dramatic elevation changes and braces make sense!
@@TractioneRag agree 100% i never wear one when riding hard enduro.
I tried one years ago and had a pretty nasty get off, it acted as a lever and fucked my neck up! I have since not used a neck brace
And have had many crashes in offroad racing and no issues thankfully.
My thought are if you land so you are torqueing your neck in the perfect direction during a crash it will result with or without a brace I preferr my neck flex more vs. Snapping as the brace acts like a corner to break your knock on.
Put your elbow on a 90° corner and have a friend pull lightly......get my point????🙄
Interesting how different the reactions have been to braces - it seems they either saved people or hurt people or saved friends or hurt friends.
@@TractioneRag it truly is....I was just thinking I wonder if Tobey Price had one on when he Broke his neck years ago
Good argument, and point 💯… I say the same.. as so does everyone I know. It needs to be a better design
Thanks Jonathan!
I did have a proper crash last nov. Where i cricked my neck pretty good but i dont need any more junk on me weighing me down and making me sweat.
You're in hot country me son. No need to make it hotter.
@@TractioneRag winters just ended here cos everythings overheating again...
what if it was more of a suspension type deal where hitting it hard has less give but gently looking up allows it to move easier for situations like this?
Smart comment! The body shields in Dune or the 3DO armor model.
I've never had a problem looking up at even the steepest of hills. I wear an Atlas brace all the time.....my best friend wears a Leatt as does my kid....they've never mentioned it either. And we always wear our neck braces when we ride. Must be the Neanderthal short/squat necks of the ERaggers that is causing the problem.
Oh....and you should be looking ahead further.....like don't wait till you're in the gulley before you start scanning the impending hill climb.
LOL
After spending 10 years riding Ontario, I think the problem may be that you haven't seen a hill yet. Heh heh.
I’ve tried most of the brands with a few different helmets and have that exact issue. Fine on the track, but not off road. I have a short neck and need an adjustable neck brace. Because of my short neck my helmet hitting my chest protector actually somewhat does the job of a neck brace.
@@TractioneRag Or that you have a "Neanderthal Neck"! ;-)
@@andrzejtaramina2709 then it's extra strong and he doesn't need one 😂😂 that's what I tell myself anyway
We have a fitting with Leatt this season and can't wait to see what happens. We've got all shapes and sizes of human in our gang of Reprobates.
I'd say check out Ryan Hughes' videos addressing neck braces. I agree with his POV as they force bad posture and fundamentals which put the rider in a compromised position from the start. A good setup and solid technique will let you avoid 90% of bad situations. That other 10% I'd say is split between riding beyond your skill level and just plain old bad luck. Would never tell someone to take it off but personally I see it as more of a liability.
Interesting comment.
I mean he didn't wear one and got paralyzed 3 times now. An individual can talk their opinions but a more accurate picture of whether to wear one would be looking at studies. Obviously they dont make you invincible, and maybe in certain impacts they may possibly result in more injuries than not having worn one, just like there have have been cases of people not wearing seatbelts surviving a car crash because they were ejected.
I think the atlas is the only one worth wearing. All other neck braces are garbage and limit your movement. The atlas separates the spine instead of sitting right on it, I’ve never had restriction from it and I’m not a super skinny guy either, it moves with the crash, and it has suspension like movement when I sits on your chest in case of a tuck and roll. I’m highly against any other brace just as much as ryno but the atlas I feel is a huge exception. I’ve had pictures taken at the local track of me in just about every position and my head was never restricted besides going thru whoops but we don’t really have any at local tracks so I’m not worried about that nor was I put in a bad riding position. I run a shoei and tld se4
My Alpinestar neck brace prevents forward motion (looking down) more than looking up. It also limits side to side tilt. I found this took some getting time to make adjustments to my routines....but, now I do not really notice it at all. Living in Ontario we only experience small changes in elevation but this has not been a problem. I hate leaving safety equipment in my truck or in the gear bag. The odds breaking my short thick neck are very small but, the cost is very high.
Wow. Such great comments. Thank you for sharing. Love your philosophy and commitment to working through the awkward first 5-6 rides.
I also used to wear a neck brace and have since tossed it. somewhere?? I found in order to gain some of my line of sight back, I had to bend more at the knees instead of the hips. This put me in a bad position on the bike and set up some other dangerous situations for me. So money wasted in my opinion.
Interesting comment!
I think it's fair to say, everything has it place and not every place is for everything.
...and, everyone has to make their own choices of what they are comfortable with, what risks they are willing to assume and accepting the consequences of their choices, whatever the outcome. (I'm not trying to make that seem dire, really).
Have owned in the past. Lack of up hill vision is why I don’t own one now.
The pin it to win it philosophy work’s right up until the talent runs out and it usually ends in a blaze of hilariously timed explicit words 🤬🤣
We are both singing the same song!
I will NOT WEAR IT.... lots of top pro mx riders are breaking their collarbone or breaking their backs.
Seem it happen to a 14 year old on a 85cc at our local mx track. So in my 41 years of riding dirtbikes and years of Downhill mountain bike riding and free riding no serious neck injuries or broken collarbones.
Don't use it.
Loving the strong opinion!
We need the “hold my beer neck brace” That is conveniently brought out for those moments of impulse and stupidity that require a pre-assessment of one’s genitalia. Are my gonads big enough and do I reach in my pack to put this thing on?
That would make a fantastic skit!
Your chest protection is bulky, you have one of the largest helmets on the market, you have an older model of the neck brace, you seem to be a shorter fellow with a short neck... So many different elements going on here. Neck brace is not for everyone, but you can get it quite comfortable with different combinations. Steward Baylor and for example Josep Garcia seem to be allright with the neck brace in offroad lol.
We're having a fitting with Leatt to try and sort everything out!
I'm honestly on and off with mine. I see the argument from both sides. I have an Atlas and it seems like they are the least instrusive of the bunch.
Is it annoying for some situations?...Yes.
At old man singletrack speeds, is the potential for a neck injury reduced?.....Sure.
Can it break collarbones?..... Absolutely, I pretty sure that's the intent by design, it transfers the impact force away from your neck to the lower contact points of the brace. Better a broken collarbone than a broken neck I guess.
I use to wear mine pretty religiously but lately I've found myself leaving in the gear bag more often then not. My reasoning for this? As I've gotten a little better at riding (I'm still atrocious) I find myself falling less and when I do fall it's usually at pretty low speed trying to some technical terrain.
Could this reasoning come back to bite me?.....oh yeah!
I just commented on these ideas as I answered the comment below! I'm either in your head or you are in mind.
I'm poor so I haven't tried a NB but if one of you wealthy reprobates will mail me yours instead of throwing 'em away, I'll give you the ultimate review. You could also send me one of them purty dirt bikes with the knobbly tyres you rich folks ride so I can get up enough speed to face plant a pine tree and give it a real test.
HA. Obviously you don't know us. We certainly ain't rich folk. The used market has plenty of cheap braces. : )
I wear the leatt 5.5 brace and leatt's 6.5 helmet. I don't really even notice any issues with looking up like everyone mentions. The helmet is designed to wear a brace with so maybe the notch in the back bottom of the helmet gives enough clearance to allow me to look upwards.
With everyone's comments we're thinking the key to this is to match the brand of the helmet, upper body armor and neck brace.
Been wearing one for years don't have any of those problems that you have mention
That's great news! We have a fitting with Leatt and we're hoping it goes well!
I was wearing one during this nasty, downhill high-side, and was very glad for it - it's a Leatt 5.5.
th-cam.com/video/umSCb6WTh5w/w-d-xo.html
I found that the adjusters on the front and back of the brace were more than enough to allow me movement and protection, side to side forward and back, without much trouble.
We've got a sizing with Leatt in the spring so we're excited to see what is possible.
@@TractioneRag I think there's a very good chance they will get you sized correctly... at least I hope so!
We're hoping the same. We (at least I do) want to wear them but the fitment issue is causing grief.
Look down go down. reason why I’m not a fan of neck braces.
Don't be lazy take it off to get up there then put it back on what one click
This whole conversation is stupid. Do football shoulder pads prevent all injuries? What about helmets? No they don’t. But they protect from certain/specific injuries. Same with Leary style neck braces. They protect from specific types of injuries. Namely the ones where you head snaps one direction and can crank on your neck. That’s it. People need to be smarter.
Sounds like you are aware on how polarizing (and illogical) neck brace conversations get!
Unscientific analysis by a ex pro rider th-cam.com/video/z83D5fcEXVA/w-d-xo.html
The pry-bar effect is an unnerving prospect.
Also, doesn't Meggs still wear one? I think she just got a new Leatt.
I think pro riders know as much about spines as a average neurologist/orthopods/kinesiologist knows about riding dirtbikes. Nothing personal with that guy but I've read so many opinions on neck braces by so many people in the last two months I realize that it is just another opinon. IMO, there is no evidence in either direction, but man oh man, lots of strong opinions.
Megs got one and it's the wrong size so I have it here - I think it is a XL maybe? I'm going to see if it fits, you are welcome to as well. We're having a Leatt fitting at some point!
@@TractioneRag he was just offering his observation on actual injuries he's seen when neck braces started being used in the sport. The problem with doctors is they only see sick/injured people, they don't know what people are actually doing outside their little world's. Also I believe he was referring to what surgeons told him.
If the data doesn't come from a controlled study that adheres to scientific method it's just an opinion or hypothesis. That goes for the doctors as well. They carry just as much bias as every other human. I don't think we'll every get definitive answers about braces as it is impossible to control for crash variables. I've never been in a crash that was just like another one.
Neckbrace on road and offroad
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