That is honestly the biggest problem with having a Batman who kills writing wise. You can’t write the story with any of his regular villains unless he just started killing, and you can’t keep them for long because they were all designed to survive solely based on the fact that Batman chooses not to. To write a good Batman killing story you’d either need to A. Have him kill the Joker immediately, then every other villain realizes he means business now and starts getting serious. Upping their security, never working alone, or retiring. B. Have the old rogue’s gallery get replaced with a significantly more malicious and serious bunch, showing how important a symbol of hope really is.
That's always been an issue with the DCEU. Where Superman was suppose the big bang of the DC Universe but every movie kept going nevermind this has been before the alien invasion. Making it all the weirder that everyone sat out the kryptonians. Especially Justice Society. They already got a fully running X-men flavored Justice League.
For me, Ben Affleck is a great choice to play an older, more experienced Batman. He has the proportions of Batman, looks like Bruce Wayne, only issue I kinda have is the voice relying too much on tech. I think the set-up for his story is cool, but Snyder just had to screw it up.
Ngl the “Martha” bit works if he didn’t kill anyone. If Batman was making an exception because he didn’t see Superman as human because of metropolis, that would make sense. Then when the Martha bit occurs, Batman realizes that Superman has a mother, an earth mother, a human mother. Batman would realize that Superman is just as human as he is, and killing him would deprive a mother of a son. Realizing that in this moment, Superman is in fact more human than Batman, which leads to a change of heart. BUT NO!
I’d also replace MARTHA with MOTHER I don’t think the name sharing should matter he should already empathize with wanting to save a mother or not orphaning someone
The redemption arc doesn’t really start until the funeral. He’s still himself after the BVS fight and in the Warehouse scene, he’s just back on the side of good
@@Jonathan-A.C.if the redemption arc doesn’t start till after Superman is dead then Batman’s epiphany in the Martha scene makes even less sense. Why have this huge moment where Batman comes to his senses only to still have him go and kill random thugs lmao. It’s little things like that which just prove Zack had no idea what he was doing. He wanted to adapt storylines without knowing the context behind them. He wanted dark knight returns Batman without realizing Batman kills no one in that story, he wanted death of Superman without realizing that story only works cause in the comics it was after decades of stories where people got to know the man of steel, he wanted to kill off dick Grayson instead of Jason to be original without realizing that ruins the potential of future robin storylines with Tim drake and ruins the idea of a red hood story down the line cause there is no Jason Todd. Zack Snyder doesn’t understand dc or Batman like he thinks he does.
@@Rawdog89 I mean I won’t say he doesn’t change things, but I’m saying it doesn’t actual start until then is because he doesn’t make his speech and “men are still good” until then, and he certainly is still on the moment and in the mode of battle after the Martha scene. The Martha scene is the paradigm shift he needs, not truly the beginning of change. It shows him immediately that what he was doing is wrong, and he needs to change, but I don’t think he really starts “redeeming” that until after, where he actually goes out and starts the Justice League. You’re just giving reasons for why this is a different universe. I agree that things were rushed, but that doesn’t equate to making no sense of him having no understand. I mean that’s just cap, or being hyperbolic. It’s clear he had a vision, whether or not you agree with it. The actual events of the movie are fact whether or not my take on things is accurate. He still has the entire scene which radically changes his perspective and forced him to see the dark road he’s been going down, and he seeks to be good and to help himself be better by saving Martha and doing what he knows is right by Superman. That’s what he proceeds to do, and then after Supes dies, he changes his ways. Those elements remain true
I feel like if you make Batman kill, you do it early in his career, like how he killed people at the beginning on his run. That could be an interesting arc.
That’s an amazing idea, and have him slowly become the more compassionate protector of Gotham with care for all life. Kind of a more extreme version of the arc in Matt Reeves’ Batman.
I agree with you Ben Affleck could've been a great Batman but thanks to Warner Brothers, and Zack Snyder obsession with turning him into the Punisher with a silly hat and not to mention Affleck's personal issues during the making of these movies its no wonder why his Batman and the DCEU as a hole stunk.
"Zach Snyder obsession with turning him into the Punisher with a silly hat" - oh no look, it's a Hive-Minded Drone that's trying to escape being a full on Hive-Minded Drone but realises that he'll always be a Hive-Minded Drone.
And its a shame to cus I was really really looking forward to how this Batman would be portrayed as but yeah WB just had to give Zack the biggest green card in Hollywood and now batfleck is looked at as a joke… I do hope he comes back into the DCU though
The choice behind Dick Grayson die is to show how isolated Batman is here. He doesn’t even have Nightwing, even working apart from him, he only has Alfred.
Huge problem is that the character of Dick Grayson has been backstabbed and tarnished for so damn long, with him going from Diet-Jason Todd in the Schumacher films to a sociopath in Young Justice to getting mutilated in the New 52 Animated films, that it wouldn't've hurt to have a version of the character in this big budget A-list franchise that reaches a lot of people.
I feel Snyder should've made it so Joker killed Jason, and Bruce has become more violent with the branding, but crippling and paralyzing goons instead of killing.
Yeah, I agree he should’ve stuck with pretty much what you said instead of killing, but I think you could integrate killing into it, just on a smaller scale. It was too much in the movie, although it did look cool, I’ll give it that
Yep it could have had the same effect minus losing respect for the character. It woulda still triggered that “oh, that guys rough and doesn’t really care” thought in your mind without also triggering the “this is not mine or anyone’s favorite Batman” kinda feeling
I feel like something thats not brought up enough when it comes to Batfleck is that he was HEAVILY inspired by Teh Dark Knight Returns, and while i dont think Snyder quite GETS the point of the comic, it's apparent that he wanted to do a movie based on that from the get-go (and will apparently only return for an adaptation of it) so i feel a good amount of Batflecks problems could've been solved by simply having a TDKR movie BEFORE jumping to BvS, but he wasn't allowed to, so he just Frankensteined as much of it as he could, leading to... mixed results.
Snyder never got what DC heroes were about in the first place. He was the wrong guy to helm this. I mean he said about Batman Beginns, if he had writen that story, he would have Bruce been SA in the prison. Just Yikes.
I like Matt Reeves Batman from what I've seen, but I really hope the DCU does what this did but better. I crave for a Batman with fantastical elements and a good mix of tones.
The only thing Reeves dropped the ball on was sticking to a realistic universe and keeping his Batman out of Gunn’s DCU. With some slow build up, his Batman could’ve easily worked in a cinematic universe especially since Corenswet’s Superman is also relatively new to being Superman so the two could’ve grown together and met when they were at their peak and become the best friends they are in the comics
@@eddiediaz5518. First of all, the d.c.e.u. was dead on arrival, secondly, I really can't see Patissom's batman interacting with bat-mite. Batman is equal parts silly and serious!
If main timeline Batfleck didn’t kill, that “ill fulfill my promise to Harley to fucking kill you” bit from Knightmare Batman would actually mean anything
How could Superman not choke Zod out and imprison him in the Kryptonian ship set to Krypton atmospherics? If he really wanted to avoid killing him so bad this would have been an option to consider since he already had him in a chokehold. Then there’s the fact that the family could have easily escaped, Superman was responsible for plenty of casualties himself since he brought down a ship in the middle of the city that was obviously going to crash into buildings on the way down, he dodged out of the way of a fuel truck allowing it to crash into a parking garage, and I could go on.
@@StopCallingMeShirley1180 I’m sorry, he didn’t take his time to think about those situations it was a race against Time. I can see and try to atone for what he’s done.
I like Ben Affleck as Batman and he is my favorite Batman if he didn’t kill , have good writing ✍️ and have a solo movie he would’ve been the greatest (live action) actor to play Batman
The entire DCEU in general was just wasted potential brought about by DC and Warner Bros trying desperately to catch up with Marvel leading to no one having a clue about what direction they should go in. It's pretty telling of how much trouble the DCEU was in when they decided to give James Gunn full control after he gave us one really good movie and a spin-off show.
I get what you mean with the Andrew Garfield comparison, but I feel like Batfleck's story was left in a worst position than Andrew's. The problem with Andrew was that his character arc after Gwen's death was rushed and that was easily fixed in his appearance in NWH, where he says he "stopped pulling his punches" and saves MJ to get closure. In Batfleck's case...what exactly can you do with the character moving forward? You can't really bring back the gritty version of him from BvS because that would feel like character regression, and if you keep having him show up as a friendly somewhat edgy dude, like in The Flash, then it just serves as a reminder of how rushed his arc was. As much as I love Matt Reeves' The Batman, it would've been neet to get a Batfleck solo film set BEFORE the events of BvS, that actually explained how he got to that point. It wouldn't fix everything (like you said if the Joker killed Robin then why didn't he kill him before killing random criminals) BUT it could help explain some things at least.
From what I’ve seen, the movie is an abomination. From what I know of the comics, they’re good. From the game itself, especially the first one, it’s great
They could have established that he didn't used to kill, but does after Robins death, and his arc is that he returns to his old ways. I would have been fine with even that
I think the main issue with batffleck is the amount of time, all his emotion is based on words not facts we could see, if snyder would make new batman movies with death in family and for example the killing joek adaptation before the dawn of justice all batman character would have been better and the viewer could realate more on why he is like this
The fact that Warner Bros made The Lego batman movie and The Batman and never gave Ben Affleck a sole batman movie really shows how much Warner Bros held DC back.
Here’s what’s funny: a lot of DC fans who hate Zack Snyder’s DC films and Ben Affleck’s Batman always go to him killing, yet Tom Burton, Joel Schumacher, and Christopher Nolan all had their Batman’s (Michael Keaton, Val Kilmer, and Christian Bale) kill
@@CursedShinobiClown most people complaining about BVS in 2016 were 20-40, they were old enough to watch Batman and Batman returns when they came out. And literally every Batman/DC/comic fan has seen the Burton films. I also mentioned the Nolan films which finished 4 years before BVS started. I win, L + ratio Gunn head
@@bamaboyz8978 Again you’d be suprised how many younger millennials and gen z’s had never actually seen returns or forever and only played the games or watched BTAS and dark knight at least from personal experience. Returns was criticized to hell and back when it released. Now sure it was mainly cause it was too dark but Tim went on record admitting it has no accuracy at all he made a Tim burton movie not a Batman movie. I actually like returns but i in no way real see it as a good Batman movie. There’s a reason people didn’t complain and that’s cause the perception of Batman was different back then and most people saw it when they were young and forgot hell why else did everyone forgot. In the 00s people had more accurate depictions of the character in media like the Arkham games and the shows changing the perception of the character so of course the reaction is gonna be different it’s a different world a different time a different context. Hell as dumb as the Ra’s death in begins was people are more willing to defend that then him shooting people because context matters now as for TDK… yeah I actually agree with you I dunno why people defend that
Yup which is why on Paper Batman going from that to the Comics "I don't kill" is an interesting direction IMO its just that studio medling and poor execution doomed it to be devicice
People aren't very good at expressing their points or may latch on to a good sounding viewpoint. Batman is explicitly stated to kill in Batman v Superman, and Zach Synder keeps saying so as well. Batman killing was a plot point in the movie and was in the meta discussion of he movie making it front and center in any discussion involving the movie. For the other cinematic Batman's him killing was either the assumed outcome or treated within the medium as Batman not killing. My point is people will answer "No" to Batman killing on a test, but if you muddy it up or don't directly say he killed, they may forget about it. So their issue is Batman killed, but most people only noticed because it was so explicit in dialog.
Batfleck is supposed to be the Batman from Dark Knight Returns but that Batman had a no gun rule. Keaton didn’t use guns except the guns on his Batmobile. The Batman in the comic said Guns are the weapons of cowards. He broke a gun in the comic.
I really wish they went with a solo movie for Batfleck after Man of Steel which leads up to a Batman/Superman team-up movie instead of just jumping into Batman v. Superman.
Man, something that hurts me about Zack's Batman is how he missed the opportunity of having him be the voice of reason from the very start. Like, you have heroes that are working under their own ideals like Wonder Woman and Aquaman who are indifferent about killing those they deem desserving. Then you would have Batman, who doesn't kill, talk and convince them to also not kill. That should've been Batman's entire ark in the JL. He should've been the force that unites and gives direction to the heroes. After all, he's literally the most experienced of them (in being a hero that is). Also, Doomsday should've been Bizarro instead. It would make more sense, especially since Lex was using Zod's body. He should've straight up just reanimated Zod. Zod would be in a kind of zombified state from being dead so long and his brain would be fucked up, but his memories and hatred of Superman would be stronger than ever. Lex would only have to talk to him and tell him what happened and how he brought him back because Superman is a menace and is their common enemy and because of his zombified state, Bizarro Zod would've been easy to influence. Also, Brainiac should've been the first big bad, not Darkseid. And Lex would've sided with Brainiac like he did in the Justice League animated series. But instead, they gave us a half baked pie with every ingredient in existence and naturally it ended up tasting like shit. I admit tho, Man of Steel is literally one of the best DC movies ever made and they captured extremelly well how a Superman fight should go down. I only regret that they killed off Zod instead of sending him to the phantom zone. Also, the phantom zone should've been what Jor-El showed Superman to help him stop Zod more than just giving him an admitably amazing speech.
I honestly think Batfleck not killing would work just as is with a bit of copium and olympic levels of mental gymnastics. The car that Batman shot with his Batling Gun? We've seen cars being flipped over in terminal velocity in Arkham Knight and they're fine, so they're fine. The cars that Batman shot with his Batwing? They're fine, you know, cars flipped over and stuff. Guy that blew up from his own grenade? That's not Batman's fault, he's just being stupid, and Batman was tragically unable to save him. Guy that got struck in the head with a wooden box? He's just asleep, he's fine. Flamethrower guy blowing up? That's not Batman's fault, it's the guy's fault for bringing a flamethrower in the first place. And the list could go on.
Since Batfleck killing is generally the main “you either love him or you hate him” (which is unfortunate, as he’s a lot more complex than that), I want to give my thoughts. First, somewhat of a correction, but an overall agreement. Suicide Squad takes place AFTER Batman V Superman, and it begins Bruce’s redemption arc. It explains why he acts the way he does. But before BVS, and especially throughout the time between Robin’s death and BVS, the fact he didn’t kill Joker is just fucking ludicrous. The movie and the entire saga would’ve been so much better if he did, or at least he “thought” he did, but Joker survived or got resurrected, or something. Joker not dying is just straight up a bad plot hole. Secondly, I think that not having him kill anywhere near as much, and saving it for when it ramped up at the end with the warehouse scene and even one or two soon before the BVS fight, would’ve worked much better for the flow. It was great that used branding, because it showed how stripped his compassion was, and it was a reasonable amount of change in regards to where his No kill rule line is. Ofc a prequel movie would’ve been great and I think even would’ve helped for sure, but if he just didn’t kill anywhere near as much, it would’ve flowed better IMO, and it would not seem so constraining to the other Batmen
Batfleck never killed before superman’s arrival, this was shown in suicide squad where his Batmobile has no guns attached and it still has two seats. His “killing” arc only lasted a couple of weeks if that, Alfred calls him out on his BS, the common folk call him out on his new aggression (“there’s a new kind of mean in him”) the film does not glorify his killing and calls it out multiple times.
Imagine if they just went with Jason Todd. Imagine if (let's just say if Batfleck had a trilogy and had no kill rule at the start of the universe) that Batfleck comes face to face with his greatest failure, trying not to cross the line and decides the fate of Joker (that isn't Jared Leto). That would be more interesting than just having him kill people all the time.
Batfleck, I hate not because of the no kill rule but because he has no regard for rule of law and branding criminals like cows. Keaton kills but he has respect for rule of law. He has a moral code.
My real only problem with bataffleck is not killing the joker, but his character arc is interesting, someone who lost everthing and loses his own humanity, its not about bruce wearing the batman mask, its about batman wearing bruce mask, he entered so much into darkness, that he even cant see his owns flaws
Snyder has confirmed that the end goal was that Bruce and Louise had an affair and she got pregnant with Bruce’s kid. Superman doesn’t k ow but learns and then Bruce sacrifices himself and Superman raised Bruce’s kid and he becomes Batman. It’s terrible.
13:54 Where did they get that it's horrible and looks like a cosplay? I guess they think that classic superhero costumes look ridiculous and are not realistic or they like Batman Beyond's costume in Arkham Knight
What I hated about Batfleck is that he will kill you for jaywalking But the Joker is still perfectly fine To me that was insulting, in Flashpoint at least they had a reason why Thomas Batman wasn't able to kill Joker
Thats actually half and half, Snyder depicts him basically Killing and Brutalizing Criminals which is out of character for him but when asked in interviews he actively avoids it and says batman instead just destructively incapacitates them, I guess the Studio was forcing his mouth to say Bats doesn't kill in his movie, but its blatantly obvious that Batman's Arc is him finding his humanity and not killing anymore.
Okay so I believe a batfleck to movie could have worked set before suicida squad and justice league But as a adaption as mask of phantasm The whole movie would be just him trying to move on and change from his violent ways and try to be a better Batman and a better protector for Gotham phantasm would represent what Batman once was and Bruce would have to both confront his past and see how far he fell when he started to take lives and show more development of how this Bruce would come back to the light The movie would end with Bruce starting to look for the league with Diana Thats my idea Cause I feel like a having him fight deathstorke/Slade works better as a sequel story with some more Arkham villians and set up the jonker for last movie before what would be the final justice league Snyder wanted to do
Not that I like it I am kinda of neutral about the dead robin being dick however I think the point might have been about if it was Jason you’ll just be waiting for red hood to appear you’ll just expect him to appear instead of feeling anything about him being dead ,however since it’s dick you’ll be just confused whether he comes back as something or he’s just dead dead ,whether they delivered the point well or not it’s up to you Edit :finished the video ,great video ,great points ,agreed with everything 👏
they weren't nightmares this really was flash that came back in time from ZSJLS epilogue snyder batman is connected to every single alternate reality that happened after lois died
I think if I had to change one thing. I would’ve made Batman the antagonist not Lex Luthor. And made Superman more the protagonist. I think what hurts this movie is there is no clear hero or “baby face” to use a wrestling term.
A question for the commentors, does Batman perform ANY lethal blows in the latest live action film? A friend of mine had seen it but said that "who cares? I think that anyone could kill if pushed far enough, so its totally fine" which told me all I needed to know, and that I should just skip the movie. The moment may not have been explicitly stating that he kills someone but that he stabs someone in the face, emphasizing the writing team's supreme disinterest in the thing I love most about his character. It has been awhile so I am looking for some input on this.
8:00 is kinda pointless because that movie is literally after bvs when Batman finds it in himself to stop killing. Can't believe the no kill rule bothers batman fans so much, I don't batflecks killing ether but I'm not going to let it ruin an entire film for me 🤣🤣
I didn't think Ben Affleck's Batman was that bad. The story, sure it was bad, but the Batman look, acting, and fight scenes is where he shines. It's like a live action Arkham Batman if you ignore the story. Given a better script and storytelling, it would have been a good movie.
'I'm done'
Proceeds to talk for 8 mins 52 secs more
7:40 that actually pisses me off. If he broke his number one rule, why wasn’t his priority to FIND THE JOKER AND SNAP HIS STUPID NECK!!?
That is honestly the biggest problem with having a Batman who kills writing wise. You can’t write the story with any of his regular villains unless he just started killing, and you can’t keep them for long because they were all designed to survive solely based on the fact that Batman chooses not to.
To write a good Batman killing story you’d either need to
A. Have him kill the Joker immediately, then every other villain realizes he means business now and starts getting serious. Upping their security, never working alone, or retiring.
B. Have the old rogue’s gallery get replaced with a significantly more malicious and serious bunch, showing how important a symbol of hope really is.
That's always been an issue with the DCEU. Where Superman was suppose the big bang of the DC Universe but every movie kept going nevermind this has been before the alien invasion. Making it all the weirder that everyone sat out the kryptonians. Especially Justice Society. They already got a fully running X-men flavored Justice League.
Batman not Killing is explained so much in the comics and animated movies over the years. Hush and Under the Red Hood comes to mind.
Society if people shit on Ezra’s Flash half as much as they shit on Batfleck
BC Flash isn't as popular of a character as Batman so people care less. We need an animated Flash TV show that's as good as BTAS
Plus Ezra Miller is a criminal in some of the worse ways
You mean ezflash
For me, Ben Affleck is a great choice to play an older, more experienced Batman. He has the proportions of Batman, looks like Bruce Wayne, only issue I kinda have is the voice relying too much on tech.
I think the set-up for his story is cool, but Snyder just had to screw it up.
Ngl the “Martha” bit works if he didn’t kill anyone. If Batman was making an exception because he didn’t see Superman as human because of metropolis, that would make sense. Then when the Martha bit occurs, Batman realizes that Superman has a mother, an earth mother, a human mother. Batman would realize that Superman is just as human as he is, and killing him would deprive a mother of a son. Realizing that in this moment, Superman is in fact more human than Batman, which leads to a change of heart. BUT NO!
I’d also replace MARTHA with MOTHER I don’t think the name sharing should matter he should already empathize with wanting to save a mother or not orphaning someone
The redemption arc doesn’t really start until the funeral.
He’s still himself after the BVS fight and in the Warehouse scene, he’s just back on the side of good
Hire this man to do a rewrite of the movie
@@Jonathan-A.C.if the redemption arc doesn’t start till after Superman is dead then Batman’s epiphany in the Martha scene makes even less sense. Why have this huge moment where Batman comes to his senses only to still have him go and kill random thugs lmao. It’s little things like that which just prove Zack had no idea what he was doing. He wanted to adapt storylines without knowing the context behind them. He wanted dark knight returns Batman without realizing Batman kills no one in that story, he wanted death of Superman without realizing that story only works cause in the comics it was after decades of stories where people got to know the man of steel, he wanted to kill off dick Grayson instead of Jason to be original without realizing that ruins the potential of future robin storylines with Tim drake and ruins the idea of a red hood story down the line cause there is no Jason Todd. Zack Snyder doesn’t understand dc or Batman like he thinks he does.
@@Rawdog89
I mean I won’t say he doesn’t change things, but I’m saying it doesn’t actual start until then is because he doesn’t make his speech and “men are still good” until then, and he certainly is still on the moment and in the mode of battle after the Martha scene. The Martha scene is the paradigm shift he needs, not truly the beginning of change. It shows him immediately that what he was doing is wrong, and he needs to change, but I don’t think he really starts “redeeming” that until after, where he actually goes out and starts the Justice League.
You’re just giving reasons for why this is a different universe. I agree that things were rushed, but that doesn’t equate to making no sense of him having no understand. I mean that’s just cap, or being hyperbolic. It’s clear he had a vision, whether or not you agree with it.
The actual events of the movie are fact whether or not my take on things is accurate. He still has the entire scene which radically changes his perspective and forced him to see the dark road he’s been going down, and he seeks to be good and to help himself be better by saving Martha and doing what he knows is right by Superman. That’s what he proceeds to do, and then after Supes dies, he changes his ways. Those elements remain true
Lov your rantsona
Music choice is superb as always
that's what there called. Cool
I feel like if you make Batman kill, you do it early in his career, like how he killed people at the beginning on his run. That could be an interesting arc.
That’s an amazing idea, and have him slowly become the more compassionate protector of Gotham with care for all life. Kind of a more extreme version of the arc in Matt Reeves’ Batman.
I agree with you Ben Affleck could've been a great Batman but thanks to Warner Brothers, and Zack Snyder obsession with turning him into the Punisher with a silly hat and not to mention Affleck's personal issues during the making of these movies its no wonder why his Batman and the DCEU as a hole stunk.
Less the Punisher, more Travis Bickle.
Godzilla mendoza called him azrael.
"Zach Snyder obsession with turning him into the Punisher with a silly hat" - oh no look, it's a Hive-Minded Drone that's trying to escape being a full on Hive-Minded Drone but realises that he'll always be a Hive-Minded Drone.
OK, let's just say we all have are own interpretations of what Ben Affleck's Batman is like
And its a shame to cus I was really really looking forward to how this Batman would be portrayed as but yeah WB just had to give Zack the biggest green card in Hollywood and now batfleck is looked at as a joke…
I do hope he comes back into the DCU though
The choice behind Dick Grayson die is to show how isolated Batman is here. He doesn’t even have Nightwing, even working apart from him, he only has Alfred.
Huge problem is that the character of Dick Grayson has been backstabbed and tarnished for so damn long, with him going from Diet-Jason Todd in the Schumacher films to a sociopath in Young Justice to getting mutilated in the New 52 Animated films, that it wouldn't've hurt to have a version of the character in this big budget A-list franchise that reaches a lot of people.
I feel Snyder should've made it so Joker killed Jason, and Bruce has become more violent with the branding, but crippling and paralyzing goons instead of killing.
Yeah, I agree he should’ve stuck with pretty much what you said instead of killing, but I think you could integrate killing into it, just on a smaller scale. It was too much in the movie, although it did look cool, I’ll give it that
Yep it could have had the same effect minus losing respect for the character.
It woulda still triggered that “oh, that guys rough and doesn’t really care” thought in your mind without also triggering the “this is not mine or anyone’s favorite Batman” kinda feeling
@@TheTyroofToriyama The point of this Batman is killing enemies. So that they don't escape from prison and continue to kill.
I feel like something thats not brought up enough when it comes to Batfleck is that he was HEAVILY inspired by Teh Dark Knight Returns, and while i dont think Snyder quite GETS the point of the comic, it's apparent that he wanted to do a movie based on that from the get-go (and will apparently only return for an adaptation of it) so i feel a good amount of Batflecks problems could've been solved by simply having a TDKR movie BEFORE jumping to BvS, but he wasn't allowed to, so he just Frankensteined as much of it as he could, leading to... mixed results.
Snyder never got what DC heroes were about in the first place. He was the wrong guy to helm this. I mean he said about Batman Beginns, if he had writen that story, he would have Bruce been SA in the prison. Just Yikes.
I like Matt Reeves Batman from what I've seen, but I really hope the DCU does what this did but better. I crave for a Batman with fantastical elements and a good mix of tones.
The only thing Reeves dropped the ball on was sticking to a realistic universe and keeping his Batman out of Gunn’s DCU. With some slow build up, his Batman could’ve easily worked in a cinematic universe especially since Corenswet’s Superman is also relatively new to being Superman so the two could’ve grown together and met when they were at their peak and become the best friends they are in the comics
@@eddiediaz5518. First of all, the d.c.e.u. was dead on arrival, secondly, I really can't see Patissom's batman interacting with bat-mite. Batman is equal parts silly and serious!
Hearing Batman say fuck is one of the most unexpectedly funny things I've ever heard.
If main timeline Batfleck didn’t kill, that “ill fulfill my promise to Harley to fucking kill you” bit from Knightmare Batman would actually mean anything
11:05 we deserve a proper animated adaptation of nightfall
2:49 superman regretted killing zod, he try’s not to.
How could Superman not choke Zod out and imprison him in the Kryptonian ship set to Krypton atmospherics? If he really wanted to avoid killing him so bad this would have been an option to consider since he already had him in a chokehold. Then there’s the fact that the family could have easily escaped, Superman was responsible for plenty of casualties himself since he brought down a ship in the middle of the city that was obviously going to crash into buildings on the way down, he dodged out of the way of a fuel truck allowing it to crash into a parking garage, and I could go on.
@@StopCallingMeShirley1180 I’m sorry, he didn’t take his time to think about those situations it was a race against Time. I can see and try to atone for what he’s done.
Remember injustice is the thing that popularized evil superman which wasn't new even then
I just realized this batman is just the live action version of the Thomas Wayne batman from flashpoint
I like Ben Affleck as Batman and he is my favorite Batman if he didn’t kill , have good writing ✍️ and have a solo movie he would’ve been the greatest (live action) actor to play Batman
4:23 I love this part
The entire DCEU in general was just wasted potential brought about by DC and Warner Bros trying desperately to catch up with Marvel leading to no one having a clue about what direction they should go in. It's pretty telling of how much trouble the DCEU was in when they decided to give James Gunn full control after he gave us one really good movie and a spin-off show.
Who's here after Zack Snyder's Joe Rogan Interview?
3:35 AH, ERZA MILLER!! (me running away)
Just by the thumbnail text, I agree. A Batman that lost his way is an interesting concept. His warehouse fight scene is incredible though.
Man is flexing how he got the mafex 2.0 batfleck early
Nice Video S.A, and your TH-cam channel mascot is perfection (I'm personally jealous)
Love the ace attorney and more importantly shovel knight music, wish more people would use it as background music. Great vid too as always.
I get what you mean with the Andrew Garfield comparison, but I feel like Batfleck's story was left in a worst position than Andrew's.
The problem with Andrew was that his character arc after Gwen's death was rushed and that was easily fixed in his appearance in NWH, where he says he "stopped pulling his punches" and saves MJ to get closure.
In Batfleck's case...what exactly can you do with the character moving forward? You can't really bring back the gritty version of him from BvS because that would feel like character regression, and if you keep having him show up as a friendly somewhat edgy dude, like in The Flash, then it just serves as a reminder of how rushed his arc was.
As much as I love Matt Reeves' The Batman, it would've been neet to get a Batfleck solo film set BEFORE the events of BvS, that actually explained how he got to that point. It wouldn't fix everything (like you said if the Joker killed Robin then why didn't he kill him before killing random criminals) BUT it could help explain some things at least.
Your pfp goes hard btw
Bro I need a video about why you hate the Injustice series.
I personally really like it!
i'd rather die
Character assassination
From what I’ve seen, the movie is an abomination. From what I know of the comics, they’re good. From the game itself, especially the first one, it’s great
They could have established that he didn't used to kill, but does after Robins death, and his arc is that he returns to his old ways. I would have been fine with even that
I think the main issue with batffleck is the amount of time, all his emotion is based on words not facts we could see, if snyder would make new batman movies with death in family and for example the killing joek adaptation before the dawn of justice all batman character would have been better and the viewer could realate more on why he is like this
The fact that Warner Bros made The Lego batman movie and The Batman and never gave Ben Affleck a sole batman movie really shows how much Warner Bros held DC back.
Here’s what’s funny: a lot of DC fans who hate Zack Snyder’s DC films and Ben Affleck’s Batman always go to him killing, yet Tom Burton, Joel Schumacher, and Christopher Nolan all had their Batman’s (Michael Keaton, Val Kilmer, and Christian Bale) kill
Because most younger people had never seen the Keaton movies hell returns was just as controversial as BvS back in the day
@@CursedShinobiClown most people complaining about BVS in 2016 were 20-40, they were old enough to watch Batman and Batman returns when they came out. And literally every Batman/DC/comic fan has seen the Burton films. I also mentioned the Nolan films which finished 4 years before BVS started. I win, L + ratio Gunn head
@@bamaboyz8978 Again you’d be suprised how many younger millennials and gen z’s had never actually seen returns or forever and only played the games or watched BTAS and dark knight at least from personal experience. Returns was criticized to hell and back when it released. Now sure it was mainly cause it was too dark but Tim went on record admitting it has no accuracy at all he made a Tim burton movie not a Batman movie. I actually like returns but i in no way real see it as a good Batman movie. There’s a reason people didn’t complain and that’s cause the perception of Batman was different back then and most people saw it when they were young and forgot hell why else did everyone forgot. In the 00s people had more accurate depictions of the character in media like the Arkham games and the shows changing the perception of the character so of course the reaction is gonna be different it’s a different world a different time a different context. Hell as dumb as the Ra’s death in begins was people are more willing to defend that then him shooting people because context matters now as for TDK… yeah I actually agree with you I dunno why people defend that
Yup which is why on Paper Batman going from that to the Comics "I don't kill" is an interesting direction IMO its just that studio medling and poor execution doomed it to be devicice
People aren't very good at expressing their points or may latch on to a good sounding viewpoint.
Batman is explicitly stated to kill in Batman v Superman, and Zach Synder keeps saying so as well. Batman killing was a plot point in the movie and was in the meta discussion of he movie making it front and center in any discussion involving the movie.
For the other cinematic Batman's him killing was either the assumed outcome or treated within the medium as Batman not killing.
My point is people will answer "No" to Batman killing on a test, but if you muddy it up or don't directly say he killed, they may forget about it. So their issue is Batman killed, but most people only noticed because it was so explicit in dialog.
Batfleck is supposed to be the Batman from Dark Knight Returns but that Batman had a no gun rule. Keaton didn’t use guns except the guns on his Batmobile. The Batman in the comic said Guns are the weapons of cowards. He broke a gun in the comic.
10:11 I’d like him to adapt one of the comic storyline, or even adapt son of Batman
I really wish they went with a solo movie for Batfleck after Man of Steel which leads up to a Batman/Superman team-up movie instead of just jumping into Batman v. Superman.
9:07 You eraned a sub.
Amen to that!
3:16 OH PLEASE TALK ABOUT INNUSTICE IT WAS MY BROW INTRODUCTION TO DC AND NOW HES SCARED 😢😢
"How many good guys are left? How many stayed that way" has the same vibe "I let you stay here for free and I don't even charge you rent"
It is ironic Bruce tells Alfred this even though Alfred still a good guy lol The writers have no self awareness
I especially hate the quote “The world only makes sense when you force it to.” That’s not Batman. That’s a Bat Punisher wannabe.
7:31 Me with a shit neighbor: option B is looking real nice rn
Man, something that hurts me about Zack's Batman is how he missed the opportunity of having him be the voice of reason from the very start. Like, you have heroes that are working under their own ideals like Wonder Woman and Aquaman who are indifferent about killing those they deem desserving. Then you would have Batman, who doesn't kill, talk and convince them to also not kill. That should've been Batman's entire ark in the JL. He should've been the force that unites and gives direction to the heroes. After all, he's literally the most experienced of them (in being a hero that is). Also, Doomsday should've been Bizarro instead. It would make more sense, especially since Lex was using Zod's body. He should've straight up just reanimated Zod. Zod would be in a kind of zombified state from being dead so long and his brain would be fucked up, but his memories and hatred of Superman would be stronger than ever. Lex would only have to talk to him and tell him what happened and how he brought him back because Superman is a menace and is their common enemy and because of his zombified state, Bizarro Zod would've been easy to influence. Also, Brainiac should've been the first big bad, not Darkseid. And Lex would've sided with Brainiac like he did in the Justice League animated series. But instead, they gave us a half baked pie with every ingredient in existence and naturally it ended up tasting like shit. I admit tho, Man of Steel is literally one of the best DC movies ever made and they captured extremelly well how a Superman fight should go down. I only regret that they killed off Zod instead of sending him to the phantom zone. Also, the phantom zone should've been what Jor-El showed Superman to help him stop Zod more than just giving him an admitably amazing speech.
I honestly think Batfleck not killing would work just as is with a bit of copium and olympic levels of mental gymnastics.
The car that Batman shot with his Batling Gun? We've seen cars being flipped over in terminal velocity in Arkham Knight and they're fine, so they're fine.
The cars that Batman shot with his Batwing? They're fine, you know, cars flipped over and stuff.
Guy that blew up from his own grenade? That's not Batman's fault, he's just being stupid, and Batman was tragically unable to save him.
Guy that got struck in the head with a wooden box? He's just asleep, he's fine.
Flamethrower guy blowing up? That's not Batman's fault, it's the guy's fault for bringing a flamethrower in the first place.
And the list could go on.
Since Batfleck killing is generally the main “you either love him or you hate him” (which is unfortunate, as he’s a lot more complex than that), I want to give my thoughts.
First, somewhat of a correction, but an overall agreement. Suicide Squad takes place AFTER Batman V Superman, and it begins Bruce’s redemption arc. It explains why he acts the way he does. But before BVS, and especially throughout the time between Robin’s death and BVS, the fact he didn’t kill Joker is just fucking ludicrous. The movie and the entire saga would’ve been so much better if he did, or at least he “thought” he did, but Joker survived or got resurrected, or something. Joker not dying is just straight up a bad plot hole.
Secondly, I think that not having him kill anywhere near as much, and saving it for when it ramped up at the end with the warehouse scene and even one or two soon before the BVS fight, would’ve worked much better for the flow. It was great that used branding, because it showed how stripped his compassion was, and it was a reasonable amount of change in regards to where his No kill rule line is. Ofc a prequel movie would’ve been great and I think even would’ve helped for sure, but if he just didn’t kill anywhere near as much, it would’ve flowed better IMO, and it would not seem so constraining to the other Batmen
Love u batspector keep up the great work
You always cook dude.
D) Batman brought her back to kill her again.
Welp… The comment section is certainly gonna be interesting.
fr
Im glad they didnt make deathstroke a batman villain on screen cause thats dumb as hell stealing judas contract and knight fall from bane
Batfleck never killed before superman’s arrival, this was shown in suicide squad where his Batmobile has no guns attached and it still has two seats. His “killing” arc only lasted a couple of weeks if that, Alfred calls him out on his BS, the common folk call him out on his new aggression (“there’s a new kind of mean in him”) the film does not glorify his killing and calls it out multiple times.
Yo we got the psm of batman
Imagine if they just went with Jason Todd. Imagine if (let's just say if Batfleck had a trilogy and had no kill rule at the start of the universe) that Batfleck comes face to face with his greatest failure, trying not to cross the line and decides the fate of Joker (that isn't Jared Leto). That would be more interesting than just having him kill people all the time.
I can buy this is owlman more than batman
I think that Ben Affleck’s Batman would have been far better if he had just killed the Joker in the past and maybe spared random henchmen’s lives.
REALLY I SAW IT BACK TO BACK WHEN IT WAS FIRST RELEASED
Batman V. Superman, the movie that caused an unintentional Domino Effect on this franchise’s fate for the next decade
Batfleck, I hate not because of the no kill rule but because he has no regard for rule of law and branding criminals like cows. Keaton kills but he has respect for rule of law. He has a moral code.
“Batman asks Superman about his menstruation cycles…”
HELP 💀
My real only problem with bataffleck is not killing the joker, but his character arc is interesting, someone who lost everthing and loses his own humanity, its not about bruce wearing the batman mask, its about batman wearing bruce mask, he entered so much into darkness, that he even cant see his owns flaws
Great vid pal, keep it up
12:50 no it’s George Clooney, and for superman it’s Nicolas Cage
9:04
… what the heck kind of bad joke was that?
For the record, your analysis is way better than cosmo'.
3:00 the injustice franchise is great besides batman trying to kill for damians death but not ANY OTHER ROBIN
Snyder has confirmed that the end goal was that Bruce and Louise had an affair and she got pregnant with Bruce’s kid. Superman doesn’t k ow but learns and then Bruce sacrifices himself and Superman raised Bruce’s kid and he becomes Batman.
It’s terrible.
13:54 Where did they get that it's horrible and looks like a cosplay? I guess they think that classic superhero costumes look ridiculous and are not realistic or they like Batman Beyond's costume in Arkham Knight
3:54 that was so disrespectful
Injustice would of been good if they didn't kill off Polka dot man
Ben Affleck could’ve made a great Batman… if Snyder actually understood what makes Batman… well, Batman
9:04 💀
Please James Gunn give us a non-Zionist Wonder Woman
What I hated about Batfleck is that he will kill you for jaywalking
But the Joker is still perfectly fine
To me that was insulting, in Flashpoint at least they had a reason why Thomas Batman wasn't able to kill Joker
The whole “Batman’s character arc is learning to become a hero again and stop killing” was made up by the fans
Thats actually half and half, Snyder depicts him basically Killing and Brutalizing Criminals which is out of character for him but when asked in interviews he actively avoids it and says batman instead just destructively incapacitates them,
I guess the Studio was forcing his mouth to say Bats doesn't kill in his movie, but its blatantly obvious that Batman's Arc is him finding his humanity and not killing anymore.
10:58 this is why Deathstroke as a Bruce villain sucks
Hear me out: Peter B Parker was this concept done right
Okay so
I believe a batfleck to movie could have worked set before suicida squad and justice league
But as a adaption as mask of phantasm
The whole movie would be just him trying to move on and change from his violent ways and try to be a better Batman and a better protector for Gotham
phantasm would represent what Batman once was and Bruce would have to both confront his past and see how far he fell when he started to take lives and show more development of how this Bruce would come back to the light
The movie would end with Bruce starting to look for the league with Diana
Thats my idea
Cause I feel like a having him fight deathstorke/Slade works better as a sequel story with some more Arkham villians and set up the jonker for last movie before what would be the final justice league Snyder wanted to do
The cape was CGI in Snyder's film!! That is just overdoing it.
Take away the warehouse fight scene and Afflecks Batman wouldnt even be half as popular as he is
I hated how Doomsday looked terrible. CW Superman had a better looking Doomsday.
Not that I like it I am kinda of neutral about the dead robin being dick however I think the point might have been about if it was Jason you’ll just be waiting for red hood to appear you’ll just expect him to appear instead of feeling anything about him being dead ,however since it’s dick you’ll be just confused whether he comes back as something or he’s just dead dead ,whether they delivered the point well or not it’s up to you
Edit :finished the video ,great video ,great points ,agreed with everything 👏
Does batspecter like mafex chat?
Affleck gives us the best comic book live action Batman imo and he's still my favorite overall
I’d disagree besides his looks he acts almost nothing like normal Batman he’s more like frank miller Batman which is fine if it was executed right
He's more like Moon Knight, really. No strict "no-kill" rule.
Comic batman isn’t a psychopath
they weren't nightmares this really was flash that came back in time from ZSJLS epilogue
snyder batman is connected to every single alternate reality that happened after lois died
I think if I had to change one thing. I would’ve made Batman the antagonist not Lex Luthor. And made Superman more the protagonist. I think what hurts this movie is there is no clear hero or “baby face” to use a wrestling term.
A question for the commentors, does Batman perform ANY lethal blows in the latest live action film? A friend of mine had seen it but said that "who cares? I think that anyone could kill if pushed far enough, so its totally fine" which told me all I needed to know, and that I should just skip the movie. The moment may not have been explicitly stating that he kills someone but that he stabs someone in the face, emphasizing the writing team's supreme disinterest in the thing I love most about his character. It has been awhile so I am looking for some input on this.
are you talking about battinson??? because if so then.. absolutely not, he doesn’t kill a single person. so it gets the batspecter seal of approval
the png is nice
why'd you sound so much like atreus (young..er) at 5:50 lol
Are you gonna do a video on Injustice someday or something?
I like Injustice, I don’t think it has a good story but I like it
Could you ever do a video on the Batman 2004 animated series?
8:00 is kinda pointless because that movie is literally after bvs when Batman finds it in himself to stop killing.
Can't believe the no kill rule bothers batman fans so much, I don't batflecks killing ether but I'm not going to let it ruin an entire film for me 🤣🤣
11:52 is wild
you should collab with implicitly pretentious
Just go watch the animated dark knight returns movie, it’s so much better.
I didn't think Ben Affleck's Batman was that bad. The story, sure it was bad, but the Batman look, acting, and fight scenes is where he shines. It's like a live action Arkham Batman if you ignore the story. Given a better script and storytelling, it would have been a good movie.
I feel exactly the same as you.
It’s not affleck himself it’s the writing
Batman does not kill the joker because he is Robin
Where the hell do you get this shit from?
@@dumi_chenu3730film theory made a theory about that a while ago
@@kennyobi9871 I know but that theory is just wrong(I miss matpat tho)
Is this your gameplay?
hey man i would like to ask how is your favorite flash and batgirl mine are Barry Allen and Barbara Gordon
4:59 The only thing funnier than that scene is Snyder fans thinking it's deep cinema.
all of the above except Margaret Thatcher