Let's see, Mr freeze, poison ivy, clay face, bane, the ventriloquist and killer croc. Those villains can't be done in a highly realistic world, that's only somw of the villains that wouldn't work or be neutered by setting it in a grounded world. Needless to say I agree.
@@jacobwest7how tf can ventriloquist not work and I disagree with all of those especially freeze croc and bane Reeves said he would push to the edge of fantastical but not full fantastical
@@josephdent6825 I say have one where Batman and his gadgets are grounded but he exists in a universe that has some fantasy elements. His enemies range from pickpockets and purse snatchers to costumed pranksters to supernatural threats. Don't be afraid to be get serious but also don't be afraid to be silly either.
3:08 Poison Ivy should be a Wonder Woman villain but not for that reason. Ivy fits in more with Wonder Woman mythos and themes. She is a female villain who uses her femininity for her own goals, this could tie into women hood and women’s relationships with men and their sexuality. Ivy’s goal is also to save the environment against people, this could tie into how different “man’s world” is when compared Themyscira from Diana’s perspective. I could see a story where Diana sympathizes with Ivy but later learns that Ivy goes too far and has to “betray” her.
The problem is the best and most popular version of Poison Ivy is Batman the animated series where she is an ordinary women (her superpower is 'immunity to toxins'). Ivy doesn't scale. Human Ivy does ecoterrorism plots. Superpowered Ivy tries to wipe out humanity, but we have Raj Al Ghul already doing that niche better. If you want her with powers, you'd have to change her personality- The Batman pulls it off by having her be a teenager (so non-psychotic), but classic Ivy doesn't work as more than a one note villain if she moves into the world threatening tier.
@@samuelskinner7704 Didn’t the DCAU introduce the concept of a metahuman plant/human hybrid that had florokinetic powers with inhuman (pure white and later green) skin? I recalled that from the 60’s to the mid 90’s in the canon comics she looked like a regular human woman who used all these genetically modified plants like gadgets. And she had some poison lipstick. Or maybe poison lips that she couldn’t control. I think Neil Gaiman’s Black Orchid comics connected her origin to Swamp Thing, The Floronic Man, Black Orchid, and the Green. So she probably had powers already. But I don’t remember her having white or green skin until the revival of Batman: The Animated Series colored her like that. And soon the post-crisis comics followed that choice. (Did No Man’s Land first use Ivy like that?)
@@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive Yes (apologies for skipping alot); I'm focusing on the most popular animation. Ivy is a normal human in Btas (1992-1995); she is changed (white skin) for The New Batman Adventures (1997-1999; maybe inspired by the live action movie), bit roles in Static Shock and Justice League (green skin) and it ends with her being a planet scale threat in Batman and Harley Quinn (2017). The majority of her content is in Btas; she has 3 episodes for The New Batman Adventures; Holiday Knights, Girls Night Out and Chemistry; in all of those she is a generic villain. Ivy works as a ground level villain. Her goals means she has little ties to anyone or anything else- if she wasn't paired with Harley Quinn she'd be the unabomber. If she is saner or more social she rapidly loses the drive to be a supervillain.
@@samuelskinner7704 Both the TNBA and Schumacher's B&R were released in 1997. I am not sure which one started pre-production first and which had a metahuman Ivy first. One of the things I credit Schumacher for is getting _Sub_ -Zero_ made which WB execs wanted as direct to video release that would ride the new live action movie hype. But thankfully it was handled to Boyd Kirkland and Randy Rogel, who worked on BTAS and actually cared about the characteristics and treated them with care. And the cartoon arrived late (Was B+R that bad that WB didn't want these Batman franchises associated with one another?)
Honestly the main problem is that in a Cynical post dark knight world we live in, a lot of creators fans and Warner Bros just see Batman as crime drama and mental health deconstruction over being a superhero. This is likely why Warner Bros rejected the Batman Beyond movie that was pitched by the guys who made Spiderverse, since the Fantastical Cyberpunk vibe of Batman beyond doesn’t fit that Narrow viewpoint. What’s hilarious is one of my favorite alternate takes on Batman is insanely far from grounded and that’s Dark Claw from the short lived Amalgam Comics imprint that’s Jointly Owned by Marvel and DC. Basically there was a massive inter company crossover and around half way through, give or take, the DC and Marvel universes combine into one creating a fascinating roster of heroes and villains who are combinations of characters from the 2 companies. Logan Wayne aka Dark Claw is Batman crossed with Wolverine and along with fighting crime alongside his sidekick Sparrow (Robin and Jubilee) he also seeks to stop and kill his old war buddy turned monsterous psychopath with a Healing Factor Creed Quinn aka Hyena who is SABERTOOTH CROSSED WITH THE JOKER!!! Functionally he’s Batman with Wolverine’s claws and Healing factor, but in combining the 2 characters he’s A very unique take on both, like with Dark Claw being more open to killing than Batman and being an Artist instead of just a trust fund billionaire.
My theory is that by the end of the series Oz Cob will become Oswald Cobblepot. As Oz fully becomes and embraces “the penguin” persona, he’ll portray himself as if he’s come from this generational wealth to start his own empire and better fit in with the other legacy Gotham crime families like the maronis and falcones. Feeling like he needs to change his name to Oswald Cobblepot to better suit this new era, distancing himself from the struggling driver and lapdog he used to be.
Even though the show's ended and that hasn't happened, I still wouldn't put it past him. Oz has shown to be a grifter through and through, he'll say and do whatever he can to get in the good graces of whoever he's about to use for his benefit next.
Something similar happened in the Godzilla community, but ironically it was the opposite case, there was a group of people who said that "all Godzilla movies should be like G Minus One" and that any other interpretation of the character other than one where he is a villain or super serious was already bad by default, and this sparked a very large and long debate about this topic, and many interesting conversations have come out of this, One of those was that if all the movies were like Godzilla 1954, where Godzilla is a metaphor and the moral is "war is bad" (I know it's more complex but I'll simplify it here for the purposes of expressing this point) you would be making the character stagnate, repeating himself over and over again, there is a video where they used King Kong as an example, where most of his movies were repeating the original story, denying it having its own mythology or evolving, Personally, for me, saying that a character can only have one interpretation is very limiting, impoverishing it instead of enriching it. I feel that this is especially necessary with these characters that have been around for almost 100 years since they were created. They need this variation, and I think that people should perhaps appreciate things for the intention that their creators are looking for instead of getting angry for not being something that they were intended to be. Personally, I don't like this attempt to make things overly realistic, but I feel that something can be realistic but interesting, and in The Batman I feel that it falls into this category of "being so realistic that it's boring" but I simply decide that it doesn't matter I'd rather go look for something if it fits what I'm looking for or interests me, instead of trying to make everything fit my tastes and desires.
Honestly, I’d be down for a Godzilla movie that shrinks him and his fellow kaiju down even further but have a joke moral that says that Godzilla would still kick ass even if he was the size of an elephant.
My idea for The Batman 2 should have The Court of Owls as the antagonist. They’re both grounded and zany. Batman basically fighting the rich Illuminati who has a ninjas army dressed like owls.
Court is more fitting for third part as it requires both Batman and Bruce Wayne having a strong precense. Second Batman will most likely be about Bruce learning to balance his civil life and Batman life.
That's honestly what makes Batman badass. A walking hulk of clay, a man who has a freezing ray, and a woman who controls plants are still ko match for an ordinary (yet, exceptional) human being.
@@daustin8888 Agree. Super powers are cool tho. Maybe a power that isn't about power. Something that has a place in that world and/or the story that it would appear in without taking away from it. Even something really small would be awesome! Maybe something psychic like talking to ghosts or whatever. Maybe even a curse which is debilitating but benificial in one trait cuz thats balancing, edgy and interesting. Like in Re:Zero!
Seems a bit unfair that "Oswald Cobblepot" gets called a silly name when in our own world we have people whose legal names include "Peter Bonerz" and "Moon Unit Zappa." But then, I'm familiar with the old proverb of "FIction has to make sense, and reality doesn't."
I love both sides of Batman but for the past 30 years we've been dealing exclusively in grounded Batman. I think it's past time the pendulum swung the other way.
The realistic Batman is so annoying because like.. if you want to make a realistic crime drama of a character there’s so many other DC characters you can use like the Question is probably the most realistic DC character I can think of.. just a smart detective with a no face mask and a blue suit and fedora but I don’t even think he’s been adapted once other than the DCAU.
@@ZQPPSMan, i have been begging for a question show. I loved Jeffrey Coomb's version of Question in JLU. But question does get some powers later. It depends, there are like 3 questions
I will always like grounded versions of Batman. But when this one with Reeves & Pattinson has run its course it'd be nice to see Batman in a more fantastical and super-powered world a la Justice League, like what we were promised but never got with Ben Affleck.
I dont agree with that. For the average person the black and grey suit has become his definitive look excluding keaton and bale. They tried to change it in the flash and people thought the blue was ugly. Gunn needs to find a suit that pleases both casual and hardcore fans. Seeing how well the rebirth suit is received my bet is it'll be heavily based on that.
They should definitely give Batman the blue and gray suit with the trunks and white eyes. Would really help it stand out from the other past live action Batmen.
I rather if they go with using the normal Black suit and use Blue Light to make it reflect off of his Suit. Black & Gray suit is as old as Superman's Blue & Red, if not, older. Black & Gray with Blue Light to reflect the highlight is better to me.
@@baligong3592 Ooh, I like that idea 😁. It'd kinda be like a live-action adaptation of the suit he wore in Justice League: The Animated Series and Unlimited.
I’m sure comic fans are ready for rogues and heroes like Grundy, Azazel, Blockbuster, and Zatanna etc. but I doubt the common audience is. Advertisers and producers have their hand in this as well, and the writing would have to serve so many interests for this to kick off. Mentioning 1919, 1889, etc as a drawing board for the Reeves films is a great point and could definitely work.
@@abiodunsulaiman2297 Fair enough, but I’m just a nerd on TH-cam lmao. I wouldn’t be here yapping on this channel if I was getting paid the bucks to be a writer. I can’t put anyone in those films.
I guess people are just getting tired with everyone trying to subvert the genre. Hell, we're getting the 5th season of "Superheroes are Hollywood rapists - The Show" now. I'm not a fan of this push for everything to be gritty and representative of the worst aspects of the modern world.
I’d be fine with The Batman series being all grounded if that means that the Batman in the DCU goes more in with the fantastical & superhero elements of Batman. Even in his beginning stories mostly dealt with vampires and monsters, with that soon progressing to more whacky supervillains I’d love for a Batman movie series to finally take more inspiration from the 2000s Batman, Morrison Batman, Snyder’s, etc
One time I wrote a fan concept of a very, very fantastical Batman, set in the fantasy genre. Batman is a literal dark knight, the Joker is a goblin, the Penguin is an anthro penguin person, the Riddler is a sphynx, Poison Ivy is a fairy, Mr Freeze is an ice elemental wizard, the Mad Hatter is the literal Mad Hatter from Wonderland, just as a few examples.
That scene in Batman Animated series (from the 90s) where it shows Clay Face's origin terrified me as a kid. It's the part where the silhouette shows the gangsters pouring clay on him.
I feel like dc needs to take some notes from the mcu. They have a universe where wacky shit such as magic and monsters exist, but its also grounded enough to be believable. Dc themselves has done a mix of grounded and mystical properly in comics such as batman dammed. DC could do the same thing, if not better, if WB actually let people try to break the mold when making movies.
@@ScrinwaipwrTo be fair for Spider-Man "grounded" would just means "street level", so less Avengers/Spider-Verse level threats & more guys like Kingpin or Tombstone
I understand the people who want to see the more fantastical Batman stuff but some who complain about grounded Batman seem to want to go back to the outdated Adam West days where Batman was a comedy act and the villains were harmless pranksters instead of actual threats. That show was only how it was because of how censored the 60's comics were. It's like how any filmmaker who makes a comic book film that isn't an MCU carbon copy is accused of being embarrassed to be making comic book films.
i dont mind grounded batman, i just want there to be campy projects running at the same time. the penguin coming out around the same time as caped crusader, for example
I think after the second movie if they plan on making more after the second they should add mrs freeze because he isn’t too unrealistic and after him they could add characters like killer croc or poison ivy because seeing this version of Batman going against villains will superpowers would be cool to see
The rooftop jump scene is pretty inexcusable. You have a batman who is startled by heights, and then uses a squirrel glider. It just begs the question as to why this interation of the character even chose the imagery of a bat in the first place.
Same thing with his "power level", Batman can tank multiple fully automatic guns at point blank range but a shotgun from at least 15 feet away completely messes him up. Absolutely nothing in The Batman is consistent.
Shouldn’t even be a hot take but Robin himself is more important to the Batman mythos than Batman himself we wouldn’t even have the Batman of today without Robin
Grounded Batman without any real supervillains has always been stale. It's an atrocious way to approach the character. So much of what makes Batman so interesting is the insane stuff he goes against. Yes he's just a man who starts off fighting the mob but he fights immortal ninjas, superpowered guys in a lucador mask, a killer clown, plant people, a dude dressed as a scarecrow using crazy drugs. What makes him so fun is that Batman exists in the DC universe. The attempts to strip Batman of anything strange or supernatural strips Batman of him being a normal man who has spent his life to be the best detective and fighter he can be going up against impossible odds. I don't like any version of Batman that doesn't embrace the full scale of Batman's world.
I find so funny how Reeves’ Batman is all “grounded” with gliding suit and all but then he has magic undetectable contact lenses with HD camera and sound capturing and it just exists, no in-movie explanation and no questioning at all.
Actually, camera contacts do exist, but they're prototypes. But that's not even the most unrealistic thing about this Batman. He literally crashed into a bridge at 100 mph and sustained zero damage. That was some comic book level physics. Irl his body would've been severed in two.
@@controlman7490 They're prototypes we know about. If there's a prototype we know about, DARPA probably had it fully functional and in the field 10 years ago.
I think if you are doing an origin to batman or even just a look at the early years of batman, especially before he gets Robin then it should be grounded so that you can setup the more fantastical elements and villains later. I always liked the idea that as soon as bruce gets a Robin then he stops being the lone vengeance of the night that hunts down the criminal element of Gotham, and instead becomes the caped crusader that is willing to work closer with people and the public at large to deal with the crimes that the normal grounded police cant handle. Id love it if when they end the matt Reeves batman, it with him wearing a more modern version of a adum west style suit and robin by his side on there way to stop a golden age based villain like killer moth or something.
If its an earlier Batman, then I don't mind a more grounded approach. But if its a seasoned batman? Yeah, its super stale because we deserve a Batman who's in his prime that has fought most of his villains and has the bat family
Well, Matt Reeves has two iterations of the character under his belt: The Batman, whose sequel is coming out in 2026 with an adult-only crime spin-off keeping fans of that iteration occupied, and Batman: Caped Crusader, an adult (but thankfully not edgy, shock-focused and/or tumblriffic) animated show which he serves as an executive producer on. What seems to be going on is "The Batman is realistic and grounded, Caped Crusader is fantastical and pulpy", so I think people of both the "real" and "out there" camps of Batman are being catered to. Of course, the problem is when everyone does the same take, things become rather mushy. Indeed, one of the reasons why comedic takes like the 1966 show or The Brave and the Bold prove so popular is that their respective takes on Batman is one whose fully aware of the tragedy that lead him down this path, but doesn't let that drag him down, keeps moving on and prioritises being a hero. And that's what Batman's strength is when it comes to adaptation: _Versatility._
The thing about adapting a franchise like Batman is that there's so much, any adaptation is bount to just focus on a few aspects of it. Reeves is focusing on the crime and detective aspect of Batman, and he's good at it. That universe has a certain identity that doesn't accomodate for SOME things, and that's okay. I think people are going to stop complaining about Reeves' universe not being wacky and magical when Gunn's Batman comes out and does exactly that. Ideally both takes should complement each other.
It’s going to be joker, two face, scarecrow, or penguin. All media deals with them. It would be nice to get someone new. Like Arkham Shadow just rehashed Dents story
1:29 Mannn I have a last name that originates from a royal bloodline of a rich and powerful family descending from Guatemala. But here living in a low income neighborhood. So Cobblepott is not something out of the ordinary and I think the last name “Cobb” is a name I bet no one has.
As a pretty casual Batman fan, I'm just sick of generic crime families/mobsters and the Joker.. as long as the next movie has someone new then I'll probably be happy. Good video as always!
I think that had Reeves made his films part of the DCU. He could’ve done a deconstruction of grounded Batman by showing how a grounded Gotham would react towards a Batman who just got done fighting much more out there foes.
I can't lie when I say that grounded Batman is a bit of a fresh air after the comics went balls deep with him being able to take down foes he shouldn't, but adaptations? Yeah, his own rogues gallery should be embraced more since there's always an 80% chance the Joker is introduced and as of now we've only gotten Riddler, The Penguin and Bane (though it's not the same without his goofy muscles). Batman lives in the DC Universe, which by default is already fantastical, so it's natural that his rogues gallery would have people as fantastical, Poison Ivy can control plants and people with pheromones, Clayface can shapeshift into anything, Solomon Grundy is immortal, Bane is extremely strong (and almost kills Batman), Killer Croc is... well, half crocodile, while I'm mentioning ones that I remember, there's a reason they're part of Batman's gallery instead of another superhero's, because it's not something he can easily solve by punching, his wits are put to the test too, he's not someone who can overpower into anything so he instead figures out a different solution.
A very underrated adaptation is the Gotham tv show. It had a great balance of grounded crimes on top of fantastical elements that saw the character adapting to the new normal. It never felt like it jumped the shark because the fantastical elements came from a grounded nature and were presented seriously without becoming the butt of the joke
You’ll begin to realize there’s two distinct eras of Batman, split completely down the middle. There’s the Detective Era and the Hero Era. The Detective Era consists of Batman’s early years as a mysterious vigilante. Where he solves crimes, and puts fear into criminals and the public sees him as a urban legend. His only sidekicks were Dick Grayson Robin, and Barbara Gordon Batgirl. His supervillains started popping up and has a shaky relationship with the Police with the exception of Jim Gordon. The Hero Era consists of Batman joining The Justice League, getting involved big scale, end of the world, cosmic adventures. Gaining an entire pantheon of sidekicks, and becoming the prep time having, keeping secret files on his friends because paranoid mentality, always one step ahead, OP Batgod himself.
Dick Grayson is the most important member of Batman’s supporting cast, because when Bruce met Dick for the first time, he saw a young boy whose parents were murdered right in front of him, so Bruce did what he could to bring the murderer of his parents to justice in order to prevent Dick from becoming as emotionally damaged and scarred as him.
Honestly, rewatching the Batman is pretty boring. Not even too hyped for part two, might not even watch it in theaters. Yall say this is what yall want, but yall buying the tickets..
Im glad that the DCU will be diving into the more fantastical side of Batman as he is such a multi-faceted character that can work in both a grounded/realistic tone but also as a campy, fantastical character that can fight aliens or monsters and both directions can work as weve seen in The Batman (2022), The Dark Knight Trilogy, The Batman Animated Series, Batman: The Brave and the Bold animated series etc... I adored The Batman (2022) and how well it truly understands the character, and Im fine with whatever direction Matt Reeves wants to take with the character though I do hope he's at least willing to do something new with the Batman mythos, at least something that doesn't look as similar as the grounded Dark Knight trilogy and give it its own identity.
In the same vein as people being sick of dark Superman, I think people are getting sick of realistic gritty Batman. I want to see a Batcave with a giant dinosaur. I want to see a Batman wear a blue and grey suit. I want to see Mr. Freeze, and Poison Ivy, and a Penguin that looks like a penguin. I want to see Robin again. A Batmobile that looks like a bat shaped car. The batwing. On and on and on. I like the Dark Knight and The Batman. But why are we throwing out 85 percent of Batman iconography for the sake of realism?
I like a fantastical Batman too! I just hate Robin because there's no moral reason for Batman to induct a kid into fighting crime. Personally, i don't think Bruce is mentally insane or psychotic or trauma or etc. That's post modernism garbage. There's been people and stories for centuries about men who use their skills for the good of the people. I think Batman is a good dude. The one criticism of his character that i agree with is the indoctrination of children into crime fighting. He shouldn't really do that. I think his relationship with Catwoman should be spent giving him a companion and also perhaps...marriage. The quote of Batman needing Robin to keep him good just further proves the mentally ill thing that people give Batman shit for. Plus the "putting kids in harms way argument". However i do love fantastical Batman hence why Batfleck is my favourite portrayal. Pattinson and Bale are just not my cup of tea. Also the black suit is superior in style and beauty to the blue suit.
@@Rengokuo4o6 I can't get behind the child soilder take on Robin because if you apply it to him, then you have to apply it to every other child protagonist ever
@@elimiller958 no not really. Do you have any examples? See the thing is most child protagonists don't have adult supervision like Spiderman and most have superpowers like Spiderman, kid flash, superboy etc. Robin is just a kid. Batman is an adult. He shouldn't be taking a kid with no powers or experience to fighting crime. That's my issue with the Robin thing, there's no moral justification for it except that BATMAN IS INSANE. Ofcourse the argument is that it is a fictional world but that argument doesn't even suffice because the consequences of his actions have also been gone into. Like Dick getting gravely injured, Jason Todd died, Stephanie Brown also died, Damian died, like all these things and you'll still have Batman pick up another kid for Robin. Only someone who is mentally ill would do that and i don't think Batman is.
@@Rengokuo4o6 Robin is a kid who exists in a universe where real world physics don't apply. In his world a 13 year old with combat training can take out 30 men by himself. That is why Batman can use his help during fights because in his world a kid is strong enough to take down adults. Obviously, irl this wouldn't be possible, but we're not talking about the real world, are we?
@@controlman7490 Read my comment again and you'll understand. I have no problems with the fantastical side of things, what i have an issue with is the morality behind taking a child and indictrinating him into crime fighting at a young age. How can we portray Batman as a superhero to be looked up to when he's throwing kids into the line of gunfire. Also the consequences of Batman working with children are present even in his fictional stories like Jason Todd's death, Tim Drakes parents death, Damian's death, Dick Grayson's injury etc. Also i like the Batman character personally and would really like to see him work ALONE.
I like the grounded approach of The Batman and I think it works better than the one Nolan had. But I see your point and I like Clayface as much as the next guy. So I think there should be a place for supernatural live action Batman villains but this place shouldn't be the Reevesverse.
Es curioso ya que en los comics esta ocurriendo exactamente lo contrario tienen esta visión de Batman como este Dios que tiene un plan para todo y que es imposible de vencer
That's not the real Batman. Real Batman is a man of great pain helping everyone he can, refering to villains with their actual names to make them feel like they have a chance for redemtion or hugging a kid and who lost it all and saying everything will be okay. You can have this Batman fighting woman controlling plans or desperate husband who tries to get funds by icly holding people ranson.
I often hear people talking about how they want a "Fantasy" Batman, with him going on some "Saturday Morning Cartoon" adventures. But this video does a good job explaning that it doesn't have to be the Random Occasion 1-up comics tries to be, but just embrace aspects of what is introduced and used in comics. To me, the Best Version of Batman isn't just a Batman fighting off crime and hunting criminals in a Mystery Story, but also a Batman fighting crime while aspects of Supernatural is thrown in to give it Horror to give the Mystery aspect more Flavour.
I'm tired of the overly ''realistic'' Batman. Leaning into reality does work for Batman as he's a bit more grounded than super powered heroes but he's still a comic book character. It's those elements that make it what it is. I miss Penguin having a gun umbrella, Selina being actually called Catwoman etc. It's almost like it's trying to hard to be kewl and edgy like a teenagers attempt to write the characters.
People, mark my words: sooner than later, we will see a Batman movie that DOESN'T take place in Gotham, that DOESN'T feature ANY DC character except for Bruce Wayne, and that DOESN'T show Bruce Wayne do any detective or vigilante work. THIS Bruce Wayne will not only never put on a costume, but he will NOT be associated with bats, or the darkness, or ANYTHING linked to the mythos, in any way, shape or form; instead, the movie will show him brooding for three hours about how sad it is to be an orphan, in barely-lit scenes with desaturated photography. And the guys who made it will say "Oh, but it TOTALLY counts as a Batman movie, because it has a character named Bruce Wayne who is a rich orphan. Plus, it DOESN'T LOOK AT ALL like one of those silly, childish comic book, it's serious, therefore it's better!" And people will believe them.
To me, the groundedness is part of Batman’s charm. He’s one of the only heroes who feel like he could almost exist in real life unlike basically every other superhero
But he can't, no billionaire would actually use their money to help people, let alone fund some crime fighting empire to fight some dude made put of clay
DC Comics already grounded Batman in the 1980s with Frank Miller's Batman: Year One and the acclaimed series Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight. No further grounding by Hollywood was necessary.
I always thought it was pretty dumb to follow up on the famously more grounded Dark Knight trilogy with... another grounded take in the Matt Reeves Batman 🤨🤨🤨
specter i will touch you /pos
As soon as Matt Reeves is done with his Batman franchise, I think it's about time we put the realistic Batman to bed.
So true. Batman shouldn’t be grounded anymore
Stolen comment....
Let's see, Mr freeze, poison ivy, clay face, bane, the ventriloquist and killer croc. Those villains can't be done in a highly realistic world, that's only somw of the villains that wouldn't work or be neutered by setting it in a grounded world. Needless to say I agree.
@@jacobwest7nolan did bane though
@@jacobwest7how tf can ventriloquist not work and I disagree with all of those especially freeze croc and bane
Reeves said he would push to the edge of fantastical but not full fantastical
I think having a grounded take on a character is fine but the issue begins when everyone does the same take instead of something new.
Or you can have him deal with Grounded things while still being Fantastical
@@josephdent6825Exactly. It’s not that hard.
@@josephdent6825 I say have one where Batman and his gadgets are grounded but he exists in a universe that has some fantasy elements. His enemies range from pickpockets and purse snatchers to costumed pranksters to supernatural threats. Don't be afraid to be get serious but also don't be afraid to be silly either.
Gentle man ghost in the thumbnail. I can already tell that this is going to be good.
7.8 out of 10. Not enough gentleman ghost.
I LOVE GENTLEMAN GHOST 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️ GOD I WISH BRITISH PEOPLE WERE REAL
I LOVE GENTLEMAN GHOST
Ah, my old necktie... some things never go out of fashion.
Gotham is literally flooded, killer croc would thrive. Maybe a mob boss type of killer croc
Give him a skin condition and sharp teeth and overgrown nails with yellow eyes that glow in the dark.
3:08 Poison Ivy should be a Wonder Woman villain but not for that reason. Ivy fits in more with Wonder Woman mythos and themes. She is a female villain who uses her femininity for her own goals, this could tie into women hood and women’s relationships with men and their sexuality. Ivy’s goal is also to save the environment against people, this could tie into how different “man’s world” is when compared Themyscira from Diana’s perspective. I could see a story where Diana sympathizes with Ivy but later learns that Ivy goes too far and has to “betray” her.
Or a Swamp Thing villain considering they share an origin, motives, and their power comes from The Green.
The problem is the best and most popular version of Poison Ivy is Batman the animated series where she is an ordinary women (her superpower is 'immunity to toxins'). Ivy doesn't scale. Human Ivy does ecoterrorism plots. Superpowered Ivy tries to wipe out humanity, but we have Raj Al Ghul already doing that niche better.
If you want her with powers, you'd have to change her personality- The Batman pulls it off by having her be a teenager (so non-psychotic), but classic Ivy doesn't work as more than a one note villain if she moves into the world threatening tier.
@@samuelskinner7704 Didn’t the DCAU introduce the concept of a metahuman plant/human hybrid that had florokinetic powers with inhuman (pure white and later green) skin?
I recalled that from the 60’s to the mid 90’s in the canon comics she looked like a regular human woman who used all these genetically modified plants like gadgets. And she had some poison lipstick. Or maybe poison lips that she couldn’t control. I think Neil Gaiman’s Black Orchid comics connected her origin to Swamp Thing, The Floronic Man, Black Orchid, and the Green. So she probably had powers already.
But I don’t remember her having white or green skin until the revival of Batman: The Animated Series colored her like that. And soon the post-crisis comics followed that choice. (Did No Man’s Land first use Ivy like that?)
@@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive
Yes (apologies for skipping alot); I'm focusing on the most popular animation. Ivy is a normal human in Btas (1992-1995); she is changed (white skin) for The New Batman Adventures (1997-1999; maybe inspired by the live action movie), bit roles in Static Shock and Justice League (green skin) and it ends with her being a planet scale threat in Batman and Harley Quinn (2017).
The majority of her content is in Btas; she has 3 episodes for The New Batman Adventures; Holiday Knights, Girls Night Out and Chemistry; in all of those she is a generic villain.
Ivy works as a ground level villain. Her goals means she has little ties to anyone or anything else- if she wasn't paired with Harley Quinn she'd be the unabomber. If she is saner or more social she rapidly loses the drive to be a supervillain.
@@samuelskinner7704 Both the TNBA and Schumacher's B&R were released in 1997. I am not sure which one started pre-production first and which had a metahuman Ivy first.
One of the things I credit Schumacher for is getting _Sub_
-Zero_ made which WB execs wanted as direct to video release that would ride the new live action movie hype. But thankfully it was handled to Boyd Kirkland and Randy Rogel, who worked on BTAS and actually cared about the characteristics and treated them with care. And the cartoon arrived late (Was B+R that bad that WB didn't want these Batman franchises associated with one another?)
I feel like the Arkham games and the Burton films went fantastical and grounded at the same time however I could just be dumb and my opinion is stupid
Gotham does a great job as well. It's a serious drama show but it doesn't shy away from the campyness of Batman.
I've seen only the first 6 episodes of the show but if this is true I have to continue
@Hallowpool193 The first season is mostly serialized cop drama, but season 2 gets wacky, in a fun way.
Not stupid at all. You’re onto something.
As far as Arkham is concerned, you are definitely right. Same with movies like Under The Red Hood.
Gotham 1919 mentioned officially peak video
Honestly the main problem is that in a Cynical post dark knight world we live in, a lot of creators fans and Warner Bros just see Batman as crime drama and mental health deconstruction over being a superhero. This is likely why Warner Bros rejected the Batman Beyond movie that was pitched by the guys who made Spiderverse, since the Fantastical Cyberpunk vibe of Batman beyond doesn’t fit that Narrow viewpoint. What’s hilarious is one of my favorite alternate takes on Batman is insanely far from grounded and that’s Dark Claw from the short lived Amalgam Comics imprint that’s Jointly Owned by Marvel and DC. Basically there was a massive inter company crossover and around half way through, give or take, the DC and Marvel universes combine into one creating a fascinating roster of heroes and villains who are combinations of characters from the 2 companies. Logan Wayne aka Dark Claw is Batman crossed with Wolverine and along with fighting crime alongside his sidekick Sparrow (Robin and Jubilee) he also seeks to stop and kill his old war buddy turned monsterous psychopath with a Healing Factor Creed Quinn aka Hyena who is SABERTOOTH CROSSED WITH THE JOKER!!!
Functionally he’s Batman with Wolverine’s claws and Healing factor, but in combining the 2 characters he’s A very unique take on both, like with Dark Claw being more open to killing than Batman and being an Artist instead of just a trust fund billionaire.
I love Dark Claw and Sparrow !
Warner is also run by mouthbreathers these days, they wouldn't know a good idea if it hit them with a hammer
My theory is that by the end of the series Oz Cob will become Oswald Cobblepot. As Oz fully becomes and embraces “the penguin” persona, he’ll portray himself as if he’s come from this generational wealth to start his own empire and better fit in with the other legacy Gotham crime families like the maronis and falcones. Feeling like he needs to change his name to Oswald Cobblepot to better suit this new era, distancing himself from the struggling driver and lapdog he used to be.
Even though the show's ended and that hasn't happened, I still wouldn't put it past him. Oz has shown to be a grifter through and through, he'll say and do whatever he can to get in the good graces of whoever he's about to use for his benefit next.
Nah my man gentleman ghost is getting shafted
Something similar happened in the Godzilla community, but ironically it was the opposite case, there was a group of people who said that "all Godzilla movies should be like G Minus One" and that any other interpretation of the character other than one where he is a villain or super serious was already bad by default, and this sparked a very large and long debate about this topic, and many interesting conversations have come out of this,
One of those was that if all the movies were like Godzilla 1954, where Godzilla is a metaphor and the moral is "war is bad" (I know it's more complex but I'll simplify it here for the purposes of expressing this point) you would be making the character stagnate, repeating himself over and over again, there is a video where they used King Kong as an example, where most of his movies were repeating the original story, denying it having its own mythology or evolving,
Personally, for me, saying that a character can only have one interpretation is very limiting, impoverishing it instead of enriching it. I feel that this is especially necessary with these characters that have been around for almost 100 years since they were created. They need this variation, and I think that people should perhaps appreciate things for the intention that their creators are looking for instead of getting angry for not being something that they were intended to be.
Personally, I don't like this attempt to make things overly realistic, but I feel that something can be realistic but interesting, and in The Batman I feel that it falls into this category of "being so realistic that it's boring" but I simply decide that it doesn't matter I'd rather go look for something if it fits what I'm looking for or interests me, instead of trying to make everything fit my tastes and desires.
"What did you see, old man?"
@@theonlybilge "gojira , gojira, gojira"
Honestly, I’d be down for a Godzilla movie that shrinks him and his fellow kaiju down even further but have a joke moral that says that Godzilla would still kick ass even if he was the size of an elephant.
My idea for The Batman 2 should have The Court of Owls as the antagonist. They’re both grounded and zany. Batman basically fighting the rich Illuminati who has a ninjas army dressed like owls.
Court is more fitting for third part as it requires both Batman and Bruce Wayne having a strong precense. Second Batman will most likely be about Bruce learning to balance his civil life and Batman life.
Not at all they literally are super soldiers
@@ENOURMOUSSCALE Batman fighting superhumans isn't out of the picture
@@impissing then why is a comic accurate clay face out of the pic or mr freeze whyy
@@ENOURMOUSSCALE Too magical, Batman fighting superhumans isn't though cuz he's Batman
Can we get a batman that fights villains with super powers for once?
That's honestly what makes Batman badass.
A walking hulk of clay, a man who has a freezing ray, and a woman who controls plants are still ko match for an ordinary (yet, exceptional) human being.
@@daustin8888 Agree. Super powers are cool tho. Maybe a power that isn't about power. Something that has a place in that world and/or the story that it would appear in without taking away from it. Even something really small would be awesome! Maybe something psychic like talking to ghosts or whatever. Maybe even a curse which is debilitating but benificial in one trait cuz thats balancing, edgy and interesting. Like in Re:Zero!
Nah
Yes
no, he may only fight terrorists with mental issues
Alfred PennyWorth;"i keep house for a Man, who Dresses Like a Bat, and works in a Cave! At this point in my life, there's little that phases me".
Oficiales de policía de Gotham teniendo que detener la pelea de un tipo con un disfraz de halloween y un grupo de pingüinos con ametralladoras: 😑
not anymore since he died several years ago
@@ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΑ-ε1ω. Excuse moi?
@@erikbihari3625 DC killed Alfred Pennyworth several years ago
probably for good
Seems a bit unfair that "Oswald Cobblepot" gets called a silly name when in our own world we have people whose legal names include "Peter Bonerz" and "Moon Unit Zappa." But then, I'm familiar with the old proverb of "FIction has to make sense, and reality doesn't."
I love both sides of Batman but for the past 30 years we've been dealing exclusively in grounded Batman. I think it's past time the pendulum swung the other way.
19 years
the tetralogy is hardly grounded
The realistic Batman is so annoying because like.. if you want to make a realistic crime drama of a character there’s so many other DC characters you can use like the Question is probably the most realistic DC character I can think of.. just a smart detective with a no face mask and a blue suit and fedora but I don’t even think he’s been adapted once other than the DCAU.
Batman Brave and the Bold did a good question
@@Cooom oh yeah I haven’t watched that show but now that you say it I do think I saw the episode he was in
@@ZQPPSMan, i have been begging for a question show. I loved Jeffrey Coomb's version of Question in JLU. But question does get some powers later. It depends, there are like 3 questions
With how intrigued Gunn is with characters in the lower tier of popularity, I'd have hope.
I will always like grounded versions of Batman. But when this one with Reeves & Pattinson has run its course it'd be nice to see Batman in a more fantastical and super-powered world a la Justice League, like what we were promised but never got with Ben Affleck.
The DCU Batman 100% needs a blue suit, and to fully embrace the comic book weirdness.
I dont agree with that. For the average person the black and grey suit has become his definitive look excluding keaton and bale. They tried to change it in the flash and people thought the blue was ugly. Gunn needs to find a suit that pleases both casual and hardcore fans. Seeing how well the rebirth suit is received my bet is it'll be heavily based on that.
@Carrion-0409 The reason the suit looked bad in Flash was cause he was in daylight for one. And other being the awful hexagon pattern on his chest.
They should definitely give Batman the blue and gray suit with the trunks and white eyes. Would really help it stand out from the other past live action Batmen.
I rather if they go with using the normal Black suit and use Blue Light to make it reflect off of his Suit. Black & Gray suit is as old as Superman's Blue & Red, if not, older.
Black & Gray with Blue Light to reflect the highlight is better to me.
@@baligong3592 Ooh, I like that idea 😁. It'd kinda be like a live-action adaptation of the suit he wore in Justice League: The Animated Series and Unlimited.
I’m sure comic fans are ready for rogues and heroes like Grundy, Azazel, Blockbuster, and Zatanna etc. but I doubt the common audience is. Advertisers and producers have their hand in this as well, and the writing would have to serve so many interests for this to kick off.
Mentioning 1919, 1889, etc as a drawing board for the Reeves films is a great point and could definitely work.
Maybe if you actually put them in the damn movies they'd be interested
@@abiodunsulaiman2297 Fair enough, but I’m just a nerd on TH-cam lmao. I wouldn’t be here yapping on this channel if I was getting paid the bucks to be a writer. I can’t put anyone in those films.
I guess people are just getting tired with everyone trying to subvert the genre. Hell, we're getting the 5th season of "Superheroes are Hollywood rapists - The Show" now. I'm not a fan of this push for everything to be gritty and representative of the worst aspects of the modern world.
I’d be fine with The Batman series being all grounded if that means that the Batman in the DCU goes more in with the fantastical & superhero elements of Batman. Even in his beginning stories mostly dealt with vampires and monsters, with that soon progressing to more whacky supervillains
I’d love for a Batman movie series to finally take more inspiration from the 2000s Batman, Morrison Batman, Snyder’s, etc
I dont see how changing penguins name and origin made him better in context. Italians aren't the only ones who were gangsters
One time I wrote a fan concept of a very, very fantastical Batman, set in the fantasy genre. Batman is a literal dark knight, the Joker is a goblin, the Penguin is an anthro penguin person, the Riddler is a sphynx, Poison Ivy is a fairy, Mr Freeze is an ice elemental wizard, the Mad Hatter is the literal Mad Hatter from Wonderland, just as a few examples.
That scene in Batman Animated series (from the 90s) where it shows Clay Face's origin terrified me as a kid. It's the part where the silhouette shows the gangsters pouring clay on him.
Sometimes I need a Batman 89, Forever or And Robin. Batman running out of the fire in Forever is one of my favorite Batman moments of all time.
Grounded Batman was never fresh in the first place.
I feel like dc needs to take some notes from the mcu. They have a universe where wacky shit such as magic and monsters exist, but its also grounded enough to be believable. Dc themselves has done a mix of grounded and mystical properly in comics such as batman dammed. DC could do the same thing, if not better, if WB actually let people try to break the mold when making movies.
I fr need some Schumacher-esque Batman movies back really bad
I want to see what grounded Spider-Man would be. Let’s get a break from grounded Batman and fantastical Spider-Man and let them swap
That would just be making Peter's life even more depressing.
There's only so grounded you can make a character with nonsense super-powers.
@@ScrinwaipwrTo be fair for Spider-Man "grounded" would just means "street level", so less Avengers/Spider-Verse level threats & more guys like Kingpin or Tombstone
@@VolWrightXSony: eso es aburrido estás aburriendo a todos pongan a knull
@@VolWrightXthe amazing spider-man upto the city lizard bomb
I understand the people who want to see the more fantastical Batman stuff but some who complain about grounded Batman seem to want to go back to the outdated Adam West days where Batman was a comedy act and the villains were harmless pranksters instead of actual threats. That show was only how it was because of how censored the 60's comics were. It's like how any filmmaker who makes a comic book film that isn't an MCU carbon copy is accused of being embarrassed to be making comic book films.
Adam west Batman era is the only one were taking a literal child with you to fight criminals, sort of makes sense.
Every night I pray for James Gunn to save Sasha Calle from DCEU Hell. Leave EVERYONE else behind except for her and Xolo PLEASE
Who would you like her to play in the DCU, considering that Milly Alcock will be the new DCU Supergirl?
AMEN MY BROTHER
i dont mind grounded batman, i just want there to be campy projects running at the same time. the penguin coming out around the same time as caped crusader, for example
I think after the second movie if they plan on making more after the second they should add mrs freeze because he isn’t too unrealistic and after him they could add characters like killer croc or poison ivy because seeing this version of Batman going against villains will superpowers would be cool to see
The rooftop jump scene is pretty inexcusable. You have a batman who is startled by heights, and then uses a squirrel glider. It just begs the question as to why this interation of the character even chose the imagery of a bat in the first place.
it does NOT beg the question
Same thing with his "power level", Batman can tank multiple fully automatic guns at point blank range but a shotgun from at least 15 feet away completely messes him up. Absolutely nothing in The Batman is consistent.
Shouldn’t even be a hot take but Robin himself is more important to the Batman mythos than Batman himself we wouldn’t even have the Batman of today without Robin
Grounded Batman without any real supervillains has always been stale. It's an atrocious way to approach the character. So much of what makes Batman so interesting is the insane stuff he goes against. Yes he's just a man who starts off fighting the mob but he fights immortal ninjas, superpowered guys in a lucador mask, a killer clown, plant people, a dude dressed as a scarecrow using crazy drugs. What makes him so fun is that Batman exists in the DC universe. The attempts to strip Batman of anything strange or supernatural strips Batman of him being a normal man who has spent his life to be the best detective and fighter he can be going up against impossible odds. I don't like any version of Batman that doesn't embrace the full scale of Batman's world.
Grounded isn’t getting stale, but the perceived hype around it is waning
Nah, your playing semantics games. Its stale
Nah, grounded is stale asf.
That's a long way of saying it's getting stale
I find so funny how Reeves’ Batman is all “grounded” with gliding suit and all but then he has magic undetectable contact lenses with HD camera and sound capturing and it just exists, no in-movie explanation and no questioning at all.
Actually, camera contacts do exist, but they're prototypes. But that's not even the most unrealistic thing about this Batman. He literally crashed into a bridge at 100 mph and sustained zero damage. That was some comic book level physics. Irl his body would've been severed in two.
@@controlman7490 They're prototypes we know about. If there's a prototype we know about, DARPA probably had it fully functional and in the field 10 years ago.
I think if you are doing an origin to batman or even just a look at the early years of batman, especially before he gets Robin then it should be grounded so that you can setup the more fantastical elements and villains later. I always liked the idea that as soon as bruce gets a Robin then he stops being the lone vengeance of the night that hunts down the criminal element of Gotham, and instead becomes the caped crusader that is willing to work closer with people and the public at large to deal with the crimes that the normal grounded police cant handle. Id love it if when they end the matt Reeves batman, it with him wearing a more modern version of a adum west style suit and robin by his side on there way to stop a golden age based villain like killer moth or something.
4:05 How you gonna tell us to check out another video and not leave a link in the description or comments?
people forget that batman year one is in the same continuity as final crisis/ the morrison run on batman.
If its an earlier Batman, then I don't mind a more grounded approach. But if its a seasoned batman? Yeah, its super stale because we deserve a Batman who's in his prime that has fought most of his villains and has the bat family
Well, Matt Reeves has two iterations of the character under his belt: The Batman, whose sequel is coming out in 2026 with an adult-only crime spin-off keeping fans of that iteration occupied, and Batman: Caped Crusader, an adult (but thankfully not edgy, shock-focused and/or tumblriffic) animated show which he serves as an executive producer on. What seems to be going on is "The Batman is realistic and grounded, Caped Crusader is fantastical and pulpy", so I think people of both the "real" and "out there" camps of Batman are being catered to.
Of course, the problem is when everyone does the same take, things become rather mushy. Indeed, one of the reasons why comedic takes like the 1966 show or The Brave and the Bold prove so popular is that their respective takes on Batman is one whose fully aware of the tragedy that lead him down this path, but doesn't let that drag him down, keeps moving on and prioritises being a hero. And that's what Batman's strength is when it comes to adaptation: _Versatility._
I personally want an over the top acrobatic ninja batman having over the top fights against villians like Clayface.
You should do a video on Gotham 1919-1939. That would be cool
The thing about adapting a franchise like Batman is that there's so much, any adaptation is bount to just focus on a few aspects of it. Reeves is focusing on the crime and detective aspect of Batman, and he's good at it. That universe has a certain identity that doesn't accomodate for SOME things, and that's okay.
I think people are going to stop complaining about Reeves' universe not being wacky and magical when Gunn's Batman comes out and does exactly that. Ideally both takes should complement each other.
Opening joke hit so hard, you have no idea
I feel like the spores in penguin episode 3 bliss could lead us down a path to seeing a certain spookem
It’s going to be joker, two face, scarecrow, or penguin. All media deals with them. It would be nice to get someone new. Like Arkham Shadow just rehashed Dents story
1:29 Mannn I have a last name that originates from a royal bloodline of a rich and powerful family descending from Guatemala. But here living in a low income neighborhood. So Cobblepott is not something out of the ordinary and I think the last name “Cobb” is a name I bet no one has.
Man, I can't wait for my favourite Bat-tuber to release another video
trust the process
As a pretty casual Batman fan, I'm just sick of generic crime families/mobsters and the Joker.. as long as the next movie has someone new then I'll probably be happy. Good video as always!
I think that had Reeves made his films part of the DCU. He could’ve done a deconstruction of grounded Batman by showing how a grounded Gotham would react towards a Batman who just got done fighting much more out there foes.
3:18 - 3:28 This pretty much sums up exactly what I've been thinking when it comes to this topic.
I can't lie when I say that grounded Batman is a bit of a fresh air after the comics went balls deep with him being able to take down foes he shouldn't, but adaptations? Yeah, his own rogues gallery should be embraced more since there's always an 80% chance the Joker is introduced and as of now we've only gotten Riddler, The Penguin and Bane (though it's not the same without his goofy muscles). Batman lives in the DC Universe, which by default is already fantastical, so it's natural that his rogues gallery would have people as fantastical, Poison Ivy can control plants and people with pheromones, Clayface can shapeshift into anything, Solomon Grundy is immortal, Bane is extremely strong (and almost kills Batman), Killer Croc is... well, half crocodile, while I'm mentioning ones that I remember, there's a reason they're part of Batman's gallery instead of another superhero's, because it's not something he can easily solve by punching, his wits are put to the test too, he's not someone who can overpower into anything so he instead figures out a different solution.
A very underrated adaptation is the Gotham tv show. It had a great balance of grounded crimes on top of fantastical elements that saw the character adapting to the new normal. It never felt like it jumped the shark because the fantastical elements came from a grounded nature and were presented seriously without becoming the butt of the joke
You’ll begin to realize there’s two distinct eras of Batman, split completely down the middle. There’s the Detective Era and the Hero Era.
The Detective Era consists of Batman’s early years as a mysterious vigilante. Where he solves crimes, and puts fear into criminals and the public sees him as a urban legend. His only sidekicks were Dick Grayson Robin, and Barbara Gordon Batgirl. His supervillains started popping up and has a shaky relationship with the Police with the exception of Jim Gordon.
The Hero Era consists of Batman joining The Justice League, getting involved big scale, end of the world, cosmic adventures. Gaining an entire pantheon of sidekicks, and becoming the prep time having, keeping secret files on his friends because paranoid mentality, always one step ahead, OP Batgod himself.
Batman joined the justice league 7 years before barbara Gordon existed
People treat grounded Batman like it’s an epidemic that has been going on nonstop for decades but can only name the exact same 2 examples.
Nolan had 3 Batman movies, and Matt has one Batman movie with a spin-off series.
5:29 that’s a mood
I feel like a gritty "Darkman" reboot would be a good substitute for "grounded Batman". Or just a Darkman reboot in general.
Dick Grayson is the most important member of Batman’s supporting cast, because when Bruce met Dick for the first time, he saw a young boy whose parents were murdered right in front of him, so Bruce did what he could to bring the murderer of his parents to justice in order to prevent Dick from becoming as emotionally damaged and scarred as him.
Then he gave Dick Grayson up for adoption to a better family and didn't take him on dangerous missions right?
5:08 PREACH all my homies hate the flash movie (2023)
I’m a simple man, I see Gentleman Ghost, I click
I always thought the grounded Nolan version was perfect. When I saw Matt Reeves Batman I immediately felt that it was superfluous
Love seeing Gotham 1919-1939 getting some love. Great video.
Honestly, rewatching the Batman is pretty boring. Not even too hyped for part two, might not even watch it in theaters. Yall say this is what yall want, but yall buying the tickets..
Reeves is grounded, and Gunns is fantasy. We've just had Batfleck with the Justice Leagues. I have no problem with ONE universe that's grounded.
Yeah idk what this guys talking about lol we literally just had Batman fight aliens.
Yea Gunn’s version of Batman is definitely going to have fantastical elements.
Im glad that the DCU will be diving into the more fantastical side of Batman as he is such a multi-faceted character that can work in both a grounded/realistic tone but also as a campy, fantastical character that can fight aliens or monsters and both directions can work as weve seen in The Batman (2022), The Dark Knight Trilogy, The Batman Animated Series, Batman: The Brave and the Bold animated series etc...
I adored The Batman (2022) and how well it truly understands the character, and Im fine with whatever direction Matt Reeves wants to take with the character though I do hope he's at least willing to do something new with the Batman mythos, at least something that doesn't look as similar as the grounded Dark Knight trilogy and give it its own identity.
Changing Penguins name to Cobb could be a twist that he's related to the Talon family of the same name
Don't know though I haven't seen the show
It was stale when Batman Begins came out already
the tetralogy wasn't realistic
I like grounded Batman, but like Ironman I want the world to become fantastical
we need fantastical batman more than ever now although i love reeves batman but i still want that MCU fame for DC..
I love manbat! And i really want him to be a main villain in a bat flick.
3:22 HE'S JUST A WHAT??????????
Yes. I do love grounded takes on Batman but I think the audience is ready for surreal Batman stories
It's never not been stale
In the same vein as people being sick of dark Superman, I think people are getting sick of realistic gritty Batman. I want to see a Batcave with a giant dinosaur. I want to see a Batman wear a blue and grey suit. I want to see Mr. Freeze, and Poison Ivy, and a Penguin that looks like a penguin. I want to see Robin again. A Batmobile that looks like a bat shaped car. The batwing. On and on and on. I like the Dark Knight and The Batman. But why are we throwing out 85 percent of Batman iconography for the sake of realism?
I like a fantastical Batman too! I just hate Robin because there's no moral reason for Batman to induct a kid into fighting crime.
Personally, i don't think Bruce is mentally insane or psychotic or trauma or etc. That's post modernism garbage. There's been people and stories for centuries about men who use their skills for the good of the people. I think Batman is a good dude. The one criticism of his character that i agree with is the indoctrination of children into crime fighting. He shouldn't really do that. I think his relationship with Catwoman should be spent giving him a companion and also perhaps...marriage.
The quote of Batman needing Robin to keep him good just further proves the mentally ill thing that people give Batman shit for.
Plus the "putting kids in harms way argument". However i do love fantastical Batman hence why Batfleck is my favourite portrayal. Pattinson and Bale are just not my cup of tea.
Also the black suit is superior in style and beauty to the blue suit.
@@Rengokuo4o6 I can't get behind the child soilder take on Robin because if you apply it to him, then you have to apply it to every other child protagonist ever
@@elimiller958 no not really. Do you have any examples?
See the thing is most child protagonists don't have adult supervision like Spiderman and most have superpowers like Spiderman, kid flash, superboy etc. Robin is just a kid. Batman is an adult. He shouldn't be taking a kid with no powers or experience to fighting crime. That's my issue with the Robin thing, there's no moral justification for it except that BATMAN IS INSANE. Ofcourse the argument is that it is a fictional world but that argument doesn't even suffice because the consequences of his actions have also been gone into. Like Dick getting gravely injured, Jason Todd died, Stephanie Brown also died, Damian died, like all these things and you'll still have Batman pick up another kid for Robin. Only someone who is mentally ill would do that and i don't think Batman is.
@@Rengokuo4o6 Robin is a kid who exists in a universe where real world physics don't apply. In his world a 13 year old with combat training can take out 30 men by himself. That is why Batman can use his help during fights because in his world a kid is strong enough to take down adults. Obviously, irl this wouldn't be possible, but we're not talking about the real world, are we?
@@controlman7490 Read my comment again and you'll understand. I have no problems with the fantastical side of things, what i have an issue with is the morality behind taking a child and indictrinating him into crime fighting at a young age. How can we portray Batman as a superhero to be looked up to when he's throwing kids into the line of gunfire.
Also the consequences of Batman working with children are present even in his fictional stories like Jason Todd's death, Tim Drakes parents death, Damian's death, Dick Grayson's injury etc.
Also i like the Batman character personally and would really like to see him work ALONE.
I like the grounded approach of The Batman and I think it works better than the one Nolan had. But I see your point and I like Clayface as much as the next guy. So I think there should be a place for supernatural live action Batman villains but this place shouldn't be the Reevesverse.
Though it probably wouldn't happen I would love to see a movie based on serious house on serious earth
Es curioso ya que en los comics esta ocurriendo exactamente lo contrario tienen esta visión de Batman como este Dios que tiene un plan para todo y que es imposible de vencer
No realmente si lo han vencido
That's not the real Batman.
Real Batman is a man of great pain helping everyone he can, refering to villains with their actual names to make them feel like they have a chance for redemtion or hugging a kid and who lost it all and saying everything will be okay.
You can have this Batman fighting woman controlling plans or desperate husband who tries to get funds by icly holding people ranson.
I love Pattinsons batman, but i would like to see a fantastical Bman in the Gunn dcu
Exactly let’s keep the two separate
I often hear people talking about how they want a "Fantasy" Batman, with him going on some "Saturday Morning Cartoon" adventures.
But this video does a good job explaning that it doesn't have to be the Random Occasion 1-up comics tries to be, but just embrace aspects of what is introduced and used in comics.
To me, the Best Version of Batman isn't just a Batman fighting off crime and hunting criminals in a Mystery Story, but also a Batman fighting crime while aspects of Supernatural is thrown in to give it Horror to give the Mystery aspect more Flavour.
I'm tired of the overly ''realistic'' Batman. Leaning into reality does work for Batman as he's a bit more grounded than super powered heroes but he's still a comic book character. It's those elements that make it what it is. I miss Penguin having a gun umbrella, Selina being actually called Catwoman etc. It's almost like it's trying to hard to be kewl and edgy like a teenagers attempt to write the characters.
Dang, you could've used The Batman 2004 cartoon for some clips of Clayface
2:48 Who’s the artist behind this page ? The designs are pretty rad
A realistic Clayface would probably be closer to his Golden age version: a deranged theatre actor that wears horror make up.
People, mark my words: sooner than later, we will see a Batman movie that DOESN'T take place in Gotham, that DOESN'T feature ANY DC character except for Bruce Wayne, and that DOESN'T show Bruce Wayne do any detective or vigilante work.
THIS Bruce Wayne will not only never put on a costume, but he will NOT be associated with bats, or the darkness, or ANYTHING linked to the mythos, in any way, shape or form; instead, the movie will show him brooding for three hours about how sad it is to be an orphan, in barely-lit scenes with desaturated photography.
And the guys who made it will say "Oh, but it TOTALLY counts as a Batman movie, because it has a character named Bruce Wayne who is a rich orphan. Plus, it DOESN'T LOOK AT ALL like one of those silly, childish comic book, it's serious, therefore it's better!"
And people will believe them.
A supernatural twist could work with Solomon Grundy
Nobody will ever sell me on Os Cobb xD
To me, the groundedness is part of Batman’s charm. He’s one of the only heroes who feel like he could almost exist in real life unlike basically every other superhero
not really no
@@ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΑ-ε1ω yep
But he can't, no billionaire would actually use their money to help people, let alone fund some crime fighting empire to fight some dude made put of clay
@@abiodunsulaiman2297 as in IN comparison to most superheroes, he is. But i personally never liked grounded Batman and i never will.
@@Rengokuo4o6 no, not even in comparison. Batman just can not exist IRL, period.
We need that Mark Wiad hybrid in Worlds Finest
you mean THE SUPERMAN /BATMAN fusion
At least we got Batman Yakuza coming
I didn't watch the first minute and got the wrong idea.
reeves batman not being the dcu is criminal
DC Comics already grounded Batman in the 1980s with Frank Miller's Batman: Year One and the acclaimed series Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight. No further grounding by Hollywood was necessary.
I always thought it was pretty dumb to follow up on the famously more grounded Dark Knight trilogy with... another grounded take in the Matt Reeves Batman 🤨🤨🤨
Keep up the work I'm really digging your videos
Batman really started hitting it at the end