I'd really love to see him explore ALL possibilities with Maegor the Bronze Dragon. What if he had married Alicent or Laena or Jeyne Arryn? or even a Stark or a Martell?
@@fourth-dimensionalbeing9737 I think him marry rhae made sense plus his conversation with Jeyne Arryn in part 2, his relationship with allicent and the dilema in the dance in that scenario is beautifully written while keeping true to the context of asoiaf and the origanility of the character
If the scene *had to* happen (which it didn't), it should have at least gone something like this. Rhaenyra: "A son for a son." Alicent: "My grandson wasn't enough?" Rhaenyra: "No. Daemon did that on his own." Alicent: "And Aemond did what he did to Luke on his own." Rhaenyra: "Aemond wasn't held responsible for that." Alicent: "Will you hold your husband responsible for what he did to my grandson?" Rhaenyra: "No. I need him." Alicent: "So how are any different, any better than me? Rhaenyra: "I have a bigger army and bigger dragons now." Alicent: "I am betraying my family right now." Rhaenyra: "Yes, you are. So you'd better make the only deal I'll give you. Have something or nothing?" But this would require a better writer for the episode. Don't care if it's a dig, it's a warranted one.
It would require that Rhaenyra be similar to the books, but honestly that "choose" did have an impact. The son for a son line didn't seem right, when in the show has Rhaenyra so bent for revenge instead of peace?
SPOILERS!!! If they are gonna replace Nettles with Rhaena then at least show us Rhaena actually claiming Sheepstealer instead of just seeing her run around in the Vale with *NO PROTECTION* or did the writers forget about the Mountain Clans? That scene of Alicent meeting Rhaenyra is unnecessary, at first the thing about them being similar in age and best friends was nice but it took over Season 02 too much for me, this felt like a filler episode for me personally. The scene with with Aegon-II & Larys Strong are great, Larys being manipulative, but also sincere with Aegon-II about his similar struggle with being a cripple, I’m enjoying them so far. Overall though it felt like only Team Green was interesting and I’m Team Black, Aegon-II has become my most favourite character in HOTD.
the writers: "there are... the Mountain Clans??" Jokes aside, they really should've just shown Rhaena claiming Sheepstealer this episode. What's the point of blue-balling us like that?.
I'd like it if they kept nettles and she tries to claim sheep stealer just for needles to stop her because he's already bonded to her they talk she has no dragon blood but she tells her she adjusted him over time giving rheane hope to have a dragon
Alicent and Rhaenyras pleas for peace are TOTALLY DIFFERENT in my eyes despite the intended symmetry Rhaenyra turned up with no plan, no proposal, no compromise, just a demand that Alicent alone somehow stop this war despite her having no control over her sons or council, and with Rhaenyra not actually willing to give any real ground! Later Alicent turns up with an actual plan and a willingness to sacrifice! They are NOT the same thing
feel like ulf is acting like a guy seeking family, like a man who discovers he has siblings and wants to get to know them and imagines himself as a part of a greater legacy ulf despite what people wants to believe acts like what any normal person would in that situation feeling himself having after having tamed a large dragon
eventually in the book and most likely in the tv show he will betray rhaenrya with hugh… because of a dispute with the land they were given.. and then Rhaenrya has all the dragonseed arrested and labelled as ‘traitors’…
Red flags 🚩🚩 started happening when Miguel Sapochnik left the team because HBO refused to give his wife producer credits. He’s still an executive producer but he no longer directs the episodes as he was the main showrunner prior to Ryan Condal taking over. Then HBO decided to cost cut and it was reported that S2 would only get 8 episodes. Then both a writers strike and actors guild strike happened last year. S2 was already doomed from the start. Now in terms of plot from the season, it started happening by Episode 3 The Burning Mill. This is the episode when Daemon started to get his visions and then finishes off with Rhaenyra needing to sneak into KL as a septa just to have a convo with her former bestie because Daemon left town. The season did start off solid from the first two episodes. Then a decline in Ep. 3 before a series peak with Ep. 4. Then another decline from 3 of the last 4 episodes as Ep. 5, 6, and 8 meandered and went nowhere. Rewatching The Queen Who Ever Was (a poor title, btw), it’s not that awful. But the fact it was going to be the season finale, it had tons of expectations to deliver and viewers wants spectacle and fireworks knowing we need to wait another 2 years for the next season. Not saying it was a great episode. It wasn’t. Daemon seeing the White Walkers or saying winter is coming in High Valyrian only annoyed viewers because it reminded us on how badly Game of Thrones ended. The worst scene was the Alicent selling out her two eldest boys. Um, why the change of heart after only 5 episodes later? Didn’t she accidentally start a war from misinterpreting what Viserys said? She’s a bad mother, a hypocrite, traitor, and she’s dead weight. This scene reached Game of Thrones S8 stupidity. Had it just been an Episode 8 of a 10-episode season, it wouldn’t be looked upon as that awful with the exception of that White Walkers callback and Alicent appearing at Rhaenyra’s doorstep I just mentioned. I think Ep. 8 is about par to Ep. 3, 5, and 6. Nothing really happened. It’s about a 6 or 7 out of 10 but since it’s a finale with higher expectations, people will grade it a 5 or lower. Season 2 was a step back from Season 1. While we did get some great episodes specifically 2x4 The Red Dragon and the Gold, great acting in 2x2 Rhaenyra the Cruel, and more dragon fun in 2x7 The Red Sowing, half of it sorta meandered and went nowhere. Character development didn’t improve with the exception of Aegon and giving Helaena more to do. Simon Strong ended up the most likable new character over Hugh, Ulf, Alys, and Jeyne, but it mostly comes from his reactions than anything he said. I wanted more out of the Velaryons and got nothing. We saw Corlys mostly stand next to a ship having a conversation with his wife, one of his bastard sons, or Rhaenyra. Similar to Daemon, he too was stuck being filmed in one location. I wanted more out of Baela and Rhaena and got nothing. And Jace is supposed to be the Robb Stark of this series but I still didn’t get anything out of him that would make me feel emotionally attached to him. He mostly comes off as a whiner. Why did we need 6 episodes of DaemonVision? Yes, he’s coping like Wanda did in WandaVision. Daemon did lose his only brother he truly loved. And yes, maybe there is a payoff to this after he dies next to Aemond. Don’t blame me because Helaena is spoiling everything. But why so many episodes only to come to the same conclusion? Daemon already bent the knee to Rhaenyra in 1x10 The Black Queen! We didn’t need to rethread this story again for an entire season! Now let’s get to Alicent…. 🤦🏻 First off, Olivia Cooke is a fantastic actress. One of the best in the cast. Matt Smith and Olivia are two of the top three in billing. All we got out from Daemon in S2 is tripping balls. Having a bad mushroom/acid trip in a haunted castle. All we got out of Alicent is her having sex, dissing Aegon again that led him to getting drunk and getting charcoaled by his brother. And if Alicent wasn’t having sex or being useless, she’s taking a bath or dipping in a pond or having awkward scenes with Rhaenyra. Matt Smith and Olivia Cooke could’ve been used sparingly this season perhaps appearing in only 4 or 5 episodes but the writers pushed them to do nonsensical things to pad the runtime of these hour-long episodes and to give Daemon and Alicent something to do. Turn Daemon into a loser “husbuncle” to Rhaenrya and deadbeat father because he’s still thirsting for the throne when he’s damn near 50 and have people like Alys Rivers and Oliver Tully dunk on him when he is supposed to be the most dangerous man in all of Westeros during this time. Aemond is supposed to fear his uncle. Daemon is not supposed to fear his nephew. Is Daemon becoming Jake Skywalker from The Last Jedi? Make Alicent into the shittiest character next to Criston Cole and make her a hypocrite, turncloak, and possible kinslayer? She’s now a worse mother than Cersei! She lost her grandson and she’s willing to sell out two of her sons? And she’s utterly USELESS at this time. As unlikable as Criston is, he can fight. While Alicent can’t even protect all her children from a war she “accidentally” started! It’s either sex or baths from her and that’s all she does if she isn’t berating Aegon or pushing him to a throne he never wanted! Whichever side you’re on whether Team Black or Team Green, or if you’re not on either side and think HOT D is mostly rich white people’s problems and you think they’re all bad (except Helaena and the dragons), we all got to admit the character development from both sides was lacking. I rewatched S1 prior to S2 airing and there’s a noticeable difference in quality. S1’s worst episode might be 1x6 The Princess and the Queen thanks to some rushed plot points and the time jump, but even that is better than half of Season 2. And 1x6 was written by Sara Hess but directed by Miguel Sapochnik. Sara Hess: White man bad! Make woman look good and heroic! Daemon is no Paul Rudd and is a terrible person! Down with the patriarchy! Down with toxic white man masculinity! And let’s add a lesbian kiss scene with Rhaenyra and Mysaria because I’m a lesbian! Nice, we got another Leslye-bian Headland from The Acolyte over here. An activist. Not a writer and is pretending she read the books. Losing Miguel Sapochnik was a big deal. He directed some of the best episodes from Game of Thrones. Ryan Condom and Sara Mess will ruin it with their fanfic nonsense. Again, if we didn’t get this ridiculous scene where Alicent is selling out her sons and Ep. 8 didn’t have the burden being the finale with higher expectations, it’s not that terrible. I even enjoyed the Abigail Thorn scenes when “they” joked about eating human flesh and asking Tyland to have children with “them”. Awkward pause from Tyland got me laughing 😂 as he looked obviously confused before Sharako mentioned about “their” wives. Do you remember from the early 90s the “It’s Pat” skits from SNL? People couldn’t figure out Pat’s gender. That’s what Tyland experienced when meeting Sharako. Oh well, let’s hope S3 is the “action” season. S2 is the “filler” season. S1 was the “setup” season. The Battle at Rook’s Rest was still great though even with some changes to it and that’s probably where most of the S2 budget went to. S3 should start with the Battle of the Gullet. The craziest naval fight we may ever see. As disappointing as S2 is, you know damn well you’re still tuning in for S3 in 2026 the moment you can see it. Let’s just look at S2 as a mulligan thanks to some cost cutting decisions and strikes. The Age of Ultron of the four Avengers movies. Not truly awful. A mixed bag with a few merits. Marvel, Star Wars, and ThroneVerse, the more they all want to expand their deep lore with so many different projects coming from different creators with varying visions to their lore, the more diluted the lore becomes. GRRM said they have 7 different projects in the works. It’s going to grow stale like what happened to MCU and SW. GRRM is already 75. His lore will get more diluted after he dies because it’s no longer coming from him but from several hack writers. Look at Disney Star Wars. It’s become a trash brand and George Lucas isn’t even dead yet. Tolkien will be rolling in his grave again when The Rings of Power S2 comes out. Be excited for House of the Dragon Season 3 and 4, but don’t get too excited knowing there’s going to be changes we all have to live with. Look at HOT D Season 2 this way: Still better than most MCU and Star Wars series on Disney+. Even at it’s worst, HOT D S2 remains better than The Mandalorian S3, Ahsoka, The Acolyte, Obi-Wan Kenobi, The Book of Boba Fett, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Secret Invasion, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Echo… Let’s wait 10 more months for A Knight of a Seven Knights. To some who only want to see dragons from these type of medieval fantasy shows, it may not be appealing to them. But the Dunk & Egg series with only 6 episodes should keep Burlington Bar busy with their awesome reactions in Chicago next year. A Song of Ice and Fire is truly headed to where MCU and Star Wars already are. Another IP trap filled with diluted quality. Star Wars no longer excites their fans. Just another visit to McDonald’s. Luster wore off years ago. May happen again to all these Game of Thrones spin-offs.
I interpreted them not putting their heads together as them trying to look regal. They aren’t going to openly show affection in front of their soldiers. That’s private.
I understand that the son of a son was out of place, but as you say Alicent could say that the blood debt was already there, and in the end both make the decision that Raenyra forgives Aegon but sending him to the night watch or as a hostage who lives the rest of his days in a golden cage. So there were other ways out that were more coherent with the Raenyra and Alicent of the series and that the writers simply did not want to put, perhaps to cause impact sacrificing the coherence of both characters that whether we like it or not, they are far from wanting to shed blood, and throughout the season they were reluctant to do so only to contradict themselves in this last episode.
What if Joffrey had Sansa executed instead of Ned or what if Joffrey kills Arya and for whatever reason Nymeria was not there to protect her? War with the north as per usual, with Ned possibly leading the charge in his daugher's name, Ned declares for Stannis, a pissed off septon/faith militant, a pissed off populace in King's Landing, alienating the other noble houses, including house Tyrell, the marriage pack between house Tyrell and Lannister never happens, so good for Margaery I guess. House Lannister is fucked since they will no longer have allies. Joffrey is declared as the second coming of Aerys, Aerys reborn or the Mad King 2.0. What if Cersei had been born a boy? No twincest, a worse and possibly bitter sibling relationship with Jaime and Tyrion. He'd be heir to Casterly Rock. No marriage to Robert Baratheon since the only man crush Bobby B ever had was Ned. Robert would marry someone else. Probably to one of Mace Tyrell's sisters. Since the Lannisters don't ascend, there is no war of the five kings over illegitimate heirs.There's also another possible darker turn this what if could take. Tywin only sacked the city and had the Gregor go after Elia and her children because he wanted to get on Robert's good side and get his blood on the Iron Throne through a marriage with his daughter, Cersei. Obviously, this can't happen since Cersei is a guy. Tywin might still side with Robert since it is a losing battle after the death of Rhaegar but if he chooses not to, Robert's the one who sacks the city. The wildfire plot still happens except Jaime wouldn't know about it and wouldn't be able to stop it since the only reason he found out about it was because if I remember correctly, Aerys told him about it while raving about how he wants him to kill his own father. What if Aemond had been born a girl? I imagine her storyline would be more or less stay the same with a couple of exceptions here and there. She still claims Vhagar, still gets her eye cut out and still trains to become a fierce warrior although this time she would have a few additional reasons to do so. Her male counterpart trained to be a warrior in order to be seen by his family and in case Aegon ever falls short and he's allowed to come into power. Fem Aemond would put all her time and energy into mastering the sword because it's harder for her to be married off now, since she lost her beauty and would no doubt disgust certain lords with her disfigurement. She'd still obviously look good as her male counterpart, but Westeros has some crazy beauty standards, just like modern day. Even though Lucerys is younger, he'd get a lot more slack for harming a girl and it would no doubt harm his already questionable reputation since he'd only be proving the realm right that bastards can never be trusted. What if Rhaenyra married Otto Hightower in order to get back at Alicent for marrying her father? She was pretty petty and impulsive as a teenager. So I could see her doing this to hurt Alicent. Although it would be pretty short-sighted on her end. Since Otto's a second son, he would have nothing to offer her. Marrying Otto could guarantee a Hightower take over. She'd be putting herself in danger since Otto might try to arrange for his wife to have a little "accident" after she gives him a son. Otto would no doubt use Viserys's favouritism of Rhaenyra against him and have his son be named heir over his grandson. Daemon would no doubt scream bloody murder and secretly arrange for Otto to be killed before he can even lay a hand on Rhaenyra, or Otto will kill him first but given that this is Daemon in his prime, his chances of coming out as the victor is much higher. This marriage pact would also piss off the Velaryons. What if Viserys and Daemon swapped wives? What I mean is what if Viserys married Laena, and Daemon married Alicent, albiet unwillingly? Viserys, like in the what if where he marries Laena, chooses to place his duty to the realm above his own personal comforts and marries Laena but since she is still too young to have children, he decides that the best course of action is to wait a few years until she gets older. This, however, would put the Targaryen bloodline in jeopardy since there are few of them left. Of course, he could marry Rhaenyra off so that she may produce more Targaryen children but this time around, he's not keen on the idea of forcing her to be a broodmare and such a young age even though she's legally an an adult by Westeros standards. He believes she still has some growing up to do and that there's no need to rush anything when it comes to her marriage. Instead, he looks toward his brother Daemon, a full-grown Targaryen prince who has yet to sire an heir. He's aware of Daemon's dislike for Rhea Royce and that they most likely never consumated their marriage. Perhaps Daemon would be happier if his marriage to Rhea was annulled and he were to be given a new wife, so Viserys does just that. He announces his marriage to Laena, the annulment of Daemon's marriage to Rhea and Daemon's new marriage to Alicent. He sees it as a way to mend old wounds between his best friend/hand of the king, Otto and his brother, Daemon while also dealing with the Targaryen population issue without pressure his daughter or new wife to sire children. Obviously under normal circumstances, Otto would refuse since he hates Daemon and the feeling is very much mutual but this is a marriage pact made by the king and to refuse might be seen as an insult. Marriage to a Targaryen is considered a great honour if only to a second son. While Otto hates the idea that Daemon is son-in-law now, there's not much he can do. Might as well take what he can get. Daemon's is livid about the whole thing and as per usual and goes to drown his sorrows in the brothel house. While he would enjoy nothing more than to see the look on Otto's face after he defiles his daughter, he can't even bring himself to do that since he is yet again forced into a marriage he does not want, to the daughter of a second son, and now has to sully his pure Targaryen bloodline with that of Andal blood. Rhaenyra is heart broken and believed Alicent planned this. Alicent is mortified knowing she is now married to one of the worst men in Westeros. Their marriage would undoubtedly be a loveless affair as there's no way Daemon would be a doting and faithful husband. They will however still produce children, since it's what's expected of them. Daemon will probably try to hold off on doing that for as long as he possibly can until Viserys puts his foot down and tells him to bed his wife since the whole point of this was to produce more Targaryen children. Once the kids are born, Daemon might soften up a bit if only for the sake of his children. Daemon and Alicent would, at the very least try to stay civil with each other for the sake of their children, even though they will never love each other. Maybe Aemond still exist in this timeline but as the first born son of Daemon instead of the second son of Viserys. Although, he will look a bit different since he has a different father. Maybe he won't end up claiming Vhagar since Daemon would want his firstborn to have a dragon as soon as possible so maybe he'll get sunfrye. As for the other names of the children, I'll leave that to you to decide. Aemond will probably be betrothed to one of Laena's children as a way to appease Daemon. Not sure who Rhaenyra would marry in this timeline. There'd be no need to marry Laenor since Viserys already made an alliance through his marriage to Laena. Daemon is already married but would no doubt still try to pursue Rhaenyra. Daemon and VIserys's children would be a bit too young for her but, I mean, it's possible. If doubt she'll wait years to finally get laid and would most likely take many lovers on the side, which would hurt her marriage prospects if anyone found out but at least she wouldn't be siring bastards. That would be be impossible to cover up since either Daemon or Viserys's children would not be of age yet. Now in terms of who gets to be heir to the Iron Throne there would be a contenders. Scenerio one, Viserys has a son and marries his son to Daemon's first born daughter. Scenario two, Viserys has a daughter and marries her to Daemon. Either Viserys names her queen and Aemond as her king consort or abdicate the thrown to Aemond. If his grandson were to sit on the iron throne, Otto would kinda be getting what he wanted, just not in the way that he expected since Aemond is the son of the man he hates the most. Scenerio three, Viserys still favours Rhaenyra and names her heir. If Viserys ever names one of his daughters on heir, the realm would still throw a hissy fit over it and perhaps there would still be war.
Thank you for saying Larys has Otto. Others have speculated Beesburys. But I think it’s Larys to spite Aemond and honor Aegon II ‘s wishes…also do you think Alicent will be caught by Aemond arriving back on the boat from Dragonstone? Hence she might be in Prison in 3 days time when Rhaenyra arrives in KL?
Ya this episode felt more like the episode right before the finale (season or series) or maybe the last episode of the first half of a season if that show does that mid season break. I am hoping then for 10 episodes next season with every 3rd being a big fight. The idea Larys keeping Otto away now releasing him to take the full hit of Rhaenyra's wrath. What if GoT: What if Myrcella lived? Still poisoned but they give her something to fight it, however still out of commissioned and next time we see her is on the Throne where we see Cersei at the end of Season 6. What if HotD: What if Otto suggested his son for a match to Rhaenyra?
26:32 i agree. Im team Rehanera but putting it like Alicent need to pay the price is ridiculous after they assassinated Jahearys. She act in the same annoying way Alicent acted when Rehanera proposed marriage between Jace and Helena. Like tere is no way out… ok they need to get rid of Amond because he is at this point loose canon but the best choice would be to take offer and make marriage pact. Jace is taken already but pact can be made between Helenas daughter and future son of Jace or any other current son of Rehenera. (sorry im probably butchering all the names xD)
What if Rhaenyra actually fostered relationships with Alicent and her half siblings and between her own children and their half Uncles and Aunt. It would be a much happier very different story 😂 in that story I’d imagine the White Walkers might actually get a proper role in being defeated instead of one slightly longer episode….
Damon: hey why don't our moms like each other? Luke: no idea, maybe Alicent wants a dragon? Damon: yeah dragons are cool let's go flying Flys off as friends/family 😂
The reason of why Raenyra asks for his head, it is because an old custom is being followed that continues to this day, it is not killing the man, it is killing the idea, that was the reason why the Tsars of Russia died, Marie Antoinette was beheaded with her husband, Isabel I and Maria I killed their cousins and King Pedro I of Castile was assassinated by his brothers. Whenever the leaders of the rebellion die, it dissolves, and having Jahera alive, she could easily say that for Aemond and Daeron to claim, they have to surpass their own niece, which by the same tradition of Westeros is something inappropriate since a daughter is before a brother since before the conquest. Obviously it is a cruel act and makes Raenyra dirty her hands, but as I just explained it is not a whim of Raenyra. And finally, the fact that Alicent didn't give her any alternative makes it a mistake that falls into the hands of both of them.
No I believe Aemond goes on an epic war crime spree, burning and beheading in the Riverlands in rage. But who knows with these writers, he might instead get counselling from Ser Simon and cuddles from Alys.
One last thing, I fully understand why you have more empathy for Alicent, in the end each person empathizes more with one character than with another based on their perspective as a TV viewer, but let's look at it from Raenyra's side, first Alicente married her father with a kind of manipulation/seduction, that makes Raenyra feel betrayed by Alicent and probably loses her trust, that's why she doesn't tell her the truth about Criston, then she is partly forced by circumstances to have to reproduce with another man, because her husband is sterile, and she sees how Alicent, far from seeking some understanding, uses that to belittle her and help her and her children begin to be repudiated in her own court. Even though Raenyra tries to make peace, not for a sentimental reason anymore but for a political one and for the good of both factions. Then, with the Aemond incident, although it is perfectly understandable from Alicent's perspective, do we really have to demand that Raenyra, who is so protective of her son, stand by while she watches her friend, who she perceives as a "traitor", stab her son in the eye? Obviously we can empathize with Alicent and Aemond, but the fact that Alicent ends up hurting her trying to hurt her little son is too much for anyone. Finally, Alicent for the first time in years shows a little kindness and before her father dies she promises to recognize her as his new queen, but as soon as her father dies she usurps her. The point is not to deify one of them, but both those who empathize more with Alice than with Raenyra and those who empathize more with Raenyra than with Alicent, have to understand that Raenyra doesn't really know what Alicent went through and vice versa, it's obvious that Alicent never enjoyed anything she did, and that without her Aegon would humiliate her anyway, but we know that, because we are his audience, not Raenyra, and the same with Alicent, we know that Raenyra also had a bad time, she lost her son and Raenys, she felt unprotected since her mother died and she feels responsible for those deaths and she is afraid of what is literally a nuclear war, but Alicent doesn't know that, either of them is the bad one from the other's point of view and both sought reconciliation too late.
I don't understand why Aegon can't legitimize one of his bastards that he fathered like the one that was seen at the Fighting Pits last season by Erryk/Arryk.
Now that it's over we need MAEGOR TARGARYEN THE BRONZE DRAGON PART 3
I'd really love to see him explore ALL possibilities with Maegor the Bronze Dragon.
What if he had married Alicent or Laena or Jeyne Arryn? or even a Stark or a Martell?
@@fourth-dimensionalbeing9737 I think him marry rhae made sense plus his conversation with Jeyne Arryn in part 2, his relationship with allicent and the dilema in the dance in that scenario is beautifully written while keeping true to the context of asoiaf and the origanility of the character
If Daemon's son married Otto's daughter he'd have an epic tantrum.
If the scene *had to* happen (which it didn't), it should have at least gone something like this.
Rhaenyra: "A son for a son."
Alicent: "My grandson wasn't enough?"
Rhaenyra: "No. Daemon did that on his own."
Alicent: "And Aemond did what he did to Luke on his own."
Rhaenyra: "Aemond wasn't held responsible for that."
Alicent: "Will you hold your husband responsible for what he did to my grandson?"
Rhaenyra: "No. I need him."
Alicent: "So how are any different, any better than me?
Rhaenyra: "I have a bigger army and bigger dragons now."
Alicent: "I am betraying my family right now."
Rhaenyra: "Yes, you are. So you'd better make the only deal I'll give you. Have something or nothing?"
But this would require a better writer for the episode. Don't care if it's a dig, it's a warranted one.
Que in that famous Ned Stark line: "The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword... or the woman, in your case"
It would require that Rhaenyra be similar to the books, but honestly that "choose" did have an impact. The son for a son line didn't seem right, when in the show has Rhaenyra so bent for revenge instead of peace?
You’re 100% right
YESSS 👏
The lion still has paws was super cute 🥰 excellent content!
SPOILERS!!!
If they are gonna replace Nettles with Rhaena then at least show us Rhaena actually claiming Sheepstealer instead of just seeing her run around in the Vale with *NO PROTECTION* or did the writers forget about the Mountain Clans?
That scene of Alicent meeting Rhaenyra is unnecessary, at first the thing about them being similar in age and best friends was nice but it took over Season 02 too much for me, this felt like a filler episode for me personally.
The scene with with Aegon-II & Larys Strong are great, Larys being manipulative, but also sincere with Aegon-II about his similar struggle with being a cripple, I’m enjoying them so far.
Overall though it felt like only Team Green was interesting and I’m Team Black, Aegon-II has become my most favourite character in HOTD.
the writers: "there are... the Mountain Clans??"
Jokes aside, they really should've just shown Rhaena claiming Sheepstealer this episode. What's the point of blue-balling us like that?.
I'd like it if they kept nettles and she tries to claim sheep stealer just for needles to stop her because he's already bonded to her they talk she has no dragon blood but she tells her she adjusted him over time giving rheane hope to have a dragon
Maybe the mountain clans have the common sense to give the giant flying fire breathing lizard a wide berth?
I liked it, not as a finale, but as an episode in general.
Alicent and Rhaenyras pleas for peace are TOTALLY DIFFERENT in my eyes despite the intended symmetry
Rhaenyra turned up with no plan, no proposal, no compromise, just a demand that Alicent alone somehow stop this war despite her having no control over her sons or council, and with Rhaenyra not actually willing to give any real ground!
Later Alicent turns up with an actual plan and a willingness to sacrifice!
They are NOT the same thing
This wasn’t supposed to BE the finale. Thank HBO for that.
feel like ulf is acting like a guy seeking family, like a man who discovers he has siblings and wants to get to know them and imagines himself as a part of a greater legacy ulf despite what people wants to believe acts like what any normal person would in that situation feeling himself having after having tamed a large dragon
eventually in the book and most likely in the tv show he will betray rhaenrya with hugh… because of a dispute with the land they were given.. and then Rhaenrya has all the dragonseed arrested and labelled as ‘traitors’…
Red flags 🚩🚩 started happening when Miguel Sapochnik left the team because HBO refused to give his wife producer credits. He’s still an executive producer but he no longer directs the episodes as he was the main showrunner prior to Ryan Condal taking over. Then HBO decided to cost cut and it was reported that S2 would only get 8 episodes. Then both a writers strike and actors guild strike happened last year. S2 was already doomed from the start.
Now in terms of plot from the season, it started happening by Episode 3 The Burning Mill. This is the episode when Daemon started to get his visions and then finishes off with Rhaenyra needing to sneak into KL as a septa just to have a convo with her former bestie because Daemon left town. The season did start off solid from the first two episodes. Then a decline in Ep. 3 before a series peak with Ep. 4. Then another decline from 3 of the last 4 episodes as Ep. 5, 6, and 8 meandered and went nowhere.
Rewatching The Queen Who Ever Was (a poor title, btw), it’s not that awful. But the fact it was going to be the season finale, it had tons of expectations to deliver and viewers wants spectacle and fireworks knowing we need to wait another 2 years for the next season. Not saying it was a great episode. It wasn’t. Daemon seeing the White Walkers or saying winter is coming in High Valyrian only annoyed viewers because it reminded us on how badly Game of Thrones ended.
The worst scene was the Alicent selling out her two eldest boys. Um, why the change of heart after only 5 episodes later? Didn’t she accidentally start a war from misinterpreting what Viserys said? She’s a bad mother, a hypocrite, traitor, and she’s dead weight. This scene reached Game of Thrones S8 stupidity.
Had it just been an Episode 8 of a 10-episode season, it wouldn’t be looked upon as that awful with the exception of that White Walkers callback and Alicent appearing at Rhaenyra’s doorstep I just mentioned. I think Ep. 8 is about par to Ep. 3, 5, and 6. Nothing really happened. It’s about a 6 or 7 out of 10 but since it’s a finale with higher expectations, people will grade it a 5 or lower.
Season 2 was a step back from Season 1. While we did get some great episodes specifically 2x4 The Red Dragon and the Gold, great acting in 2x2 Rhaenyra the Cruel, and more dragon fun in 2x7 The Red Sowing, half of it sorta meandered and went nowhere. Character development didn’t improve with the exception of Aegon and giving Helaena more to do. Simon Strong ended up the most likable new character over Hugh, Ulf, Alys, and Jeyne, but it mostly comes from his reactions than anything he said.
I wanted more out of the Velaryons and got nothing. We saw Corlys mostly stand next to a ship having a conversation with his wife, one of his bastard sons, or Rhaenyra. Similar to Daemon, he too was stuck being filmed in one location. I wanted more out of Baela and Rhaena and got nothing. And Jace is supposed to be the Robb Stark of this series but I still didn’t get anything out of him that would make me feel emotionally attached to him. He mostly comes off as a whiner.
Why did we need 6 episodes of DaemonVision? Yes, he’s coping like Wanda did in WandaVision. Daemon did lose his only brother he truly loved. And yes, maybe there is a payoff to this after he dies next to Aemond. Don’t blame me because Helaena is spoiling everything. But why so many episodes only to come to the same conclusion? Daemon already bent the knee to Rhaenyra in 1x10 The Black Queen! We didn’t need to rethread this story again for an entire season!
Now let’s get to Alicent…. 🤦🏻 First off, Olivia Cooke is a fantastic actress. One of the best in the cast. Matt Smith and Olivia are two of the top three in billing. All we got out from Daemon in S2 is tripping balls. Having a bad mushroom/acid trip in a haunted castle. All we got out of Alicent is her having sex, dissing Aegon again that led him to getting drunk and getting charcoaled by his brother. And if Alicent wasn’t having sex or being useless, she’s taking a bath or dipping in a pond or having awkward scenes with Rhaenyra.
Matt Smith and Olivia Cooke could’ve been used sparingly this season perhaps appearing in only 4 or 5 episodes but the writers pushed them to do nonsensical things to pad the runtime of these hour-long episodes and to give Daemon and Alicent something to do. Turn Daemon into a loser “husbuncle” to Rhaenrya and deadbeat father because he’s still thirsting for the throne when he’s damn near 50 and have people like Alys Rivers and Oliver Tully dunk on him when he is supposed to be the most dangerous man in all of Westeros during this time.
Aemond is supposed to fear his uncle. Daemon is not supposed to fear his nephew. Is Daemon becoming Jake Skywalker from The Last Jedi? Make Alicent into the shittiest character next to Criston Cole and make her a hypocrite, turncloak, and possible kinslayer? She’s now a worse mother than Cersei! She lost her grandson and she’s willing to sell out two of her sons? And she’s utterly USELESS at this time. As unlikable as Criston is, he can fight. While Alicent can’t even protect all her children from a war she “accidentally” started! It’s either sex or baths from her and that’s all she does if she isn’t berating Aegon or pushing him to a throne he never wanted!
Whichever side you’re on whether Team Black or Team Green, or if you’re not on either side and think HOT D is mostly rich white people’s problems and you think they’re all bad (except Helaena and the dragons), we all got to admit the character development from both sides was lacking. I rewatched S1 prior to S2 airing and there’s a noticeable difference in quality. S1’s worst episode might be 1x6 The Princess and the Queen thanks to some rushed plot points and the time jump, but even that is better than half of Season 2. And 1x6 was written by Sara Hess but directed by Miguel Sapochnik.
Sara Hess: White man bad! Make woman look good and heroic! Daemon is no Paul Rudd and is a terrible person! Down with the patriarchy! Down with toxic white man masculinity! And let’s add a lesbian kiss scene with Rhaenyra and Mysaria because I’m a lesbian!
Nice, we got another Leslye-bian Headland from The Acolyte over here. An activist. Not a writer and is pretending she read the books. Losing Miguel Sapochnik was a big deal. He directed some of the best episodes from Game of Thrones. Ryan Condom and Sara Mess will ruin it with their fanfic nonsense.
Again, if we didn’t get this ridiculous scene where Alicent is selling out her sons and Ep. 8 didn’t have the burden being the finale with higher expectations, it’s not that terrible. I even enjoyed the Abigail Thorn scenes when “they” joked about eating human flesh and asking Tyland to have children with “them”. Awkward pause from Tyland got me laughing 😂 as he looked obviously confused before Sharako mentioned about “their” wives. Do you remember from the early 90s the “It’s Pat” skits from SNL? People couldn’t figure out Pat’s gender. That’s what Tyland experienced when meeting Sharako.
Oh well, let’s hope S3 is the “action” season. S2 is the “filler” season. S1 was the “setup” season. The Battle at Rook’s Rest was still great though even with some changes to it and that’s probably where most of the S2 budget went to. S3 should start with the Battle of the Gullet. The craziest naval fight we may ever see. As disappointing as S2 is, you know damn well you’re still tuning in for S3 in 2026 the moment you can see it. Let’s just look at S2 as a mulligan thanks to some cost cutting decisions and strikes. The Age of Ultron of the four Avengers movies. Not truly awful. A mixed bag with a few merits.
Marvel, Star Wars, and ThroneVerse, the more they all want to expand their deep lore with so many different projects coming from different creators with varying visions to their lore, the more diluted the lore becomes. GRRM said they have 7 different projects in the works. It’s going to grow stale like what happened to MCU and SW. GRRM is already 75. His lore will get more diluted after he dies because it’s no longer coming from him but from several hack writers. Look at Disney Star Wars. It’s become a trash brand and George Lucas isn’t even dead yet. Tolkien will be rolling in his grave again when The Rings of Power S2 comes out.
Be excited for House of the Dragon Season 3 and 4, but don’t get too excited knowing there’s going to be changes we all have to live with. Look at HOT D Season 2 this way: Still better than most MCU and Star Wars series on Disney+. Even at it’s worst, HOT D S2 remains better than The Mandalorian S3, Ahsoka, The Acolyte, Obi-Wan Kenobi, The Book of Boba Fett, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Secret Invasion, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Echo…
Let’s wait 10 more months for A Knight of a Seven Knights. To some who only want to see dragons from these type of medieval fantasy shows, it may not be appealing to them. But the Dunk & Egg series with only 6 episodes should keep Burlington Bar busy with their awesome reactions in Chicago next year. A Song of Ice and Fire is truly headed to where MCU and Star Wars already are. Another IP trap filled with diluted quality. Star Wars no longer excites their fans. Just another visit to McDonald’s. Luster wore off years ago. May happen again to all these Game of Thrones spin-offs.
Well Daemon is a terrible person. And apparently, Sapochnik signed off on that stupid scene in the Dragon Pit in season one.
I can't wait and see how Maegor handle this.
😀
Random but you have such a nice cadence while speaking. It’s like such a satisfying pattern lol
I interpreted them not putting their heads together as them trying to look regal. They aren’t going to openly show affection in front of their soldiers. That’s private.
It’s also tabu for them, they are not Targaryens
I understand that the son of a son was out of place, but as you say Alicent could say that the blood debt was already there, and in the end both make the decision that Raenyra forgives Aegon but sending him to the night watch or as a hostage who lives the rest of his days in a golden cage. So there were other ways out that were more coherent with the Raenyra and Alicent of the series and that the writers simply did not want to put, perhaps to cause impact sacrificing the coherence of both characters that whether we like it or not, they are far from wanting to shed blood, and throughout the season they were reluctant to do so only to contradict themselves in this last episode.
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What if Joffrey had Sansa executed instead of Ned or what if Joffrey kills Arya and for whatever reason Nymeria was not there to protect her?
War with the north as per usual, with Ned possibly leading the charge in his daugher's name, Ned declares for Stannis, a pissed off septon/faith militant, a pissed off populace in King's Landing, alienating the other noble houses, including house Tyrell, the marriage pack between house Tyrell and Lannister never happens, so good for Margaery I guess. House Lannister is fucked since they will no longer have allies. Joffrey is declared as the second coming of Aerys, Aerys reborn or the Mad King 2.0.
What if Cersei had been born a boy?
No twincest, a worse and possibly bitter sibling relationship with Jaime and Tyrion. He'd be heir to Casterly Rock. No marriage to Robert Baratheon since the only man crush Bobby B ever had was Ned. Robert would marry someone else. Probably to one of Mace Tyrell's sisters. Since the Lannisters don't ascend, there is no war of the five kings over illegitimate heirs.There's also another possible darker turn this what if could take. Tywin only sacked the city and had the Gregor go after Elia and her children because he wanted to get on Robert's good side and get his blood on the Iron Throne through a marriage with his daughter, Cersei. Obviously, this can't happen since Cersei is a guy. Tywin might still side with Robert since it is a losing battle after the death of Rhaegar but if he chooses not to, Robert's the one who sacks the city. The wildfire plot still happens except Jaime wouldn't know about it and wouldn't be able to stop it since the only reason he found out about it was because if I remember correctly, Aerys told him about it while raving about how he wants him to kill his own father.
What if Aemond had been born a girl?
I imagine her storyline would be more or less stay the same with a couple of exceptions here and there. She still claims Vhagar, still gets her eye cut out and still trains to become a fierce warrior although this time she would have a few additional reasons to do so. Her male counterpart trained to be a warrior in order to be seen by his family and in case Aegon ever falls short and he's allowed to come into power. Fem Aemond would put all her time and energy into mastering the sword because it's harder for her to be married off now, since she lost her beauty and would no doubt disgust certain lords with her disfigurement. She'd still obviously look good as her male counterpart, but Westeros has some crazy beauty standards, just like modern day. Even though Lucerys is younger, he'd get a lot more slack for harming a girl and it would no doubt harm his already questionable reputation since he'd only be proving the realm right that bastards can never be trusted.
What if Rhaenyra married Otto Hightower in order to get back at Alicent for marrying her father?
She was pretty petty and impulsive as a teenager. So I could see her doing this to hurt Alicent. Although it would be pretty short-sighted on her end. Since Otto's a second son, he would have nothing to offer her. Marrying Otto could guarantee a Hightower take over. She'd be putting herself in danger since Otto might try to arrange for his wife to have a little "accident" after she gives him a son. Otto would no doubt use Viserys's favouritism of Rhaenyra against him and have his son be named heir over his grandson. Daemon would no doubt scream bloody murder and secretly arrange for Otto to be killed before he can even lay a hand on Rhaenyra, or Otto will kill him first but given that this is Daemon in his prime, his chances of coming out as the victor is much higher. This marriage pact would also piss off the Velaryons.
What if Viserys and Daemon swapped wives?
What I mean is what if Viserys married Laena, and Daemon married Alicent, albiet unwillingly? Viserys, like in the what if where he marries Laena, chooses to place his duty to the realm above his own personal comforts and marries Laena but since she is still too young to have children, he decides that the best course of action is to wait a few years until she gets older. This, however, would put the Targaryen bloodline in jeopardy since there are few of them left. Of course, he could marry Rhaenyra off so that she may produce more Targaryen children but this time around, he's not keen on the idea of forcing her to be a broodmare and such a young age even though she's legally an an adult by Westeros standards. He believes she still has some growing up to do and that there's no need to rush anything when it comes to her marriage.
Instead, he looks toward his brother Daemon, a full-grown Targaryen prince who has yet to sire an heir. He's aware of Daemon's dislike for Rhea Royce and that they most likely never consumated their marriage. Perhaps Daemon would be happier if his marriage to Rhea was annulled and he were to be given a new wife, so Viserys does just that. He announces his marriage to Laena, the annulment of Daemon's marriage to Rhea and Daemon's new marriage to Alicent. He sees it as a way to mend old wounds between his best friend/hand of the king, Otto and his brother, Daemon while also dealing with the Targaryen population issue without pressure his daughter or new wife to sire children. Obviously under normal circumstances, Otto would refuse since he hates Daemon and the feeling is very much mutual but this is a marriage pact made by the king and to refuse might be seen as an insult. Marriage to a Targaryen is considered a great honour if only to a second son.
While Otto hates the idea that Daemon is son-in-law now, there's not much he can do. Might as well take what he can get. Daemon's is livid about the whole thing and as per usual and goes to drown his sorrows in the brothel house. While he would enjoy nothing more than to see the look on Otto's face after he defiles his daughter, he can't even bring himself to do that since he is yet again forced into a marriage he does not want, to the daughter of a second son, and now has to sully his pure Targaryen bloodline with that of Andal blood. Rhaenyra is heart broken and believed Alicent planned this. Alicent is mortified knowing she is now married to one of the worst men in Westeros. Their marriage would undoubtedly be a loveless affair as there's no way Daemon would be a doting and faithful husband. They will however still produce children, since it's what's expected of them. Daemon will probably try to hold off on doing that for as long as he possibly can until Viserys puts his foot down and tells him to bed his wife since the whole point of this was to produce more Targaryen children. Once the kids are born, Daemon might soften up a bit if only for the sake of his children. Daemon and Alicent would, at the very least try to stay civil with each other for the sake of their children, even though they will never love each other. Maybe Aemond still exist in this timeline but as the first born son of Daemon instead of the second son of Viserys. Although, he will look a bit different since he has a different father. Maybe he won't end up claiming Vhagar since Daemon would want his firstborn to have a dragon as soon as possible so maybe he'll get sunfrye. As for the other names of the children, I'll leave that to you to decide. Aemond will probably be betrothed to one of Laena's children as a way to appease Daemon. Not sure who Rhaenyra would marry in this timeline. There'd be no need to marry Laenor since Viserys already made an alliance through his marriage to Laena. Daemon is already married but would no doubt still try to pursue Rhaenyra. Daemon and VIserys's children would be a bit too young for her but, I mean, it's possible. If doubt she'll wait years to finally get laid and would most likely take many lovers on the side, which would hurt her marriage prospects if anyone found out but at least she wouldn't be siring bastards. That would be be impossible to cover up since either Daemon or Viserys's children would not be of age yet. Now in terms of who gets to be heir to the Iron Throne there would be a contenders. Scenerio one, Viserys has a son and marries his son to Daemon's first born daughter. Scenario two, Viserys has a daughter and marries her to Daemon. Either Viserys names her queen and Aemond as her king consort or abdicate the thrown to Aemond. If his grandson were to sit on the iron throne, Otto would kinda be getting what he wanted, just not in the way that he expected since Aemond is the son of the man he hates the most. Scenerio three, Viserys still favours Rhaenyra and names her heir. If Viserys ever names one of his daughters on heir, the realm would still throw a hissy fit over it and perhaps there would still be war.
Thank you for saying Larys has Otto. Others have speculated Beesburys. But I think it’s Larys to spite Aemond and honor Aegon II ‘s wishes…also do you think Alicent will be caught by Aemond arriving back on the boat from Dragonstone? Hence she might be in Prison in 3 days time when Rhaenyra arrives in KL?
Ya this episode felt more like the episode right before the finale (season or series) or maybe the last episode of the first half of a season if that show does that mid season break. I am hoping then for 10 episodes next season with every 3rd being a big fight. The idea Larys keeping Otto away now releasing him to take the full hit of Rhaenyra's wrath.
What if GoT: What if Myrcella lived? Still poisoned but they give her something to fight it, however still out of commissioned and next time we see her is on the Throne where we see Cersei at the end of Season 6.
What if HotD: What if Otto suggested his son for a match to Rhaenyra?
The episode was called ‘The queen who EVER was.’
26:32 i agree. Im team Rehanera but putting it like Alicent need to pay the price is ridiculous after they assassinated Jahearys. She act in the same annoying way Alicent acted when Rehanera proposed marriage between Jace and Helena. Like tere is no way out… ok they need to get rid of Amond because he is at this point loose canon but the best choice would be to take offer and make marriage pact. Jace is taken already but pact can be made between Helenas daughter and future son of Jace or any other current son of Rehenera. (sorry im probably butchering all the names xD)
Hey Empyrean I have a neat What-If you could do.
What If Stannis Baratheon had a son (either before or after his marriage to Selyse)
what if aegon aemond lucerys and jacaerys got along as kids
What if Rhaenyra actually fostered relationships with Alicent and her half siblings and between her own children and their half Uncles and Aunt. It would be a much happier very different story 😂 in that story I’d imagine the White Walkers might actually get a proper role in being defeated instead of one slightly longer episode….
Damon: hey why don't our moms like each other?
Luke: no idea, maybe Alicent wants a dragon?
Damon: yeah dragons are cool let's go flying
Flys off as friends/family 😂
@@courtneycherry5582 do you mean Aemond?
@@Gigipretty64 yes I swear I can't remember anyone name in that show 😂
Could you do a what if, on the greens winning the iron throne
The reason of why Raenyra asks for his head, it is because an old custom is being followed that continues to this day, it is not killing the man, it is killing the idea, that was the reason why the Tsars of Russia died, Marie Antoinette was beheaded with her husband, Isabel I and Maria I killed their cousins and King Pedro I of Castile was assassinated by his brothers. Whenever the leaders of the rebellion die, it dissolves, and having Jahera alive, she could easily say that for Aemond and Daeron to claim, they have to surpass their own niece, which by the same tradition of Westeros is something inappropriate since a daughter is before a brother since before the conquest. Obviously it is a cruel act and makes Raenyra dirty her hands, but as I just explained it is not a whim of Raenyra. And finally, the fact that Alicent didn't give her any alternative makes it a mistake that falls into the hands of both of them.
Suggestion What if Viserys danys brother lived
If Aemond goes to Harrenhall will we watch hım doing side quests instead of committing war crimes like Daemon
No I believe Aemond goes on an epic war crime spree, burning and beheading in the Riverlands in rage. But who knows with these writers, he might instead get counselling from Ser Simon and cuddles from Alys.
@@Gigipretty64 I could watch ser Simon coddling him.
@@arzupekdemir63 same. Ser Simon is the best. 😂
I think Otto is in the Beesburys dungeons
One last thing, I fully understand why you have more empathy for Alicent, in the end each person empathizes more with one character than with another based on their perspective as a TV viewer, but let's look at it from Raenyra's side, first Alicente married her father with a kind of manipulation/seduction, that makes Raenyra feel betrayed by Alicent and probably loses her trust, that's why she doesn't tell her the truth about Criston, then she is partly forced by circumstances to have to reproduce with another man, because her husband is sterile, and she sees how Alicent, far from seeking some understanding, uses that to belittle her and help her and her children begin to be repudiated in her own court. Even though Raenyra tries to make peace, not for a sentimental reason anymore but for a political one and for the good of both factions. Then, with the Aemond incident, although it is perfectly understandable from Alicent's perspective, do we really have to demand that Raenyra, who is so protective of her son, stand by while she watches her friend, who she perceives as a "traitor", stab her son in the eye? Obviously we can empathize with Alicent and Aemond, but the fact that Alicent ends up hurting her trying to hurt her little son is too much for anyone. Finally, Alicent for the first time in years shows a little kindness and before her father dies she promises to recognize her as his new queen, but as soon as her father dies she usurps her. The point is not to deify one of them, but both those who empathize more with Alice than with Raenyra and those who empathize more with Raenyra than with Alicent, have to understand that Raenyra doesn't really know what Alicent went through and vice versa, it's obvious that Alicent never enjoyed anything she did, and that without her Aegon would humiliate her anyway, but we know that, because we are his audience, not Raenyra, and the same with Alicent, we know that Raenyra also had a bad time, she lost her son and Raenys, she felt unprotected since her mother died and she feels responsible for those deaths and she is afraid of what is literally a nuclear war, but Alicent doesn't know that, either of them is the bad one from the other's point of view and both sought reconciliation too late.
I don't understand why Aegon can't legitimize one of his bastards that he fathered like the one that was seen at the Fighting Pits last season by Erryk/Arryk.
Do you think he even knows they are there?
Fully agree with you really didn't like the renyra higher morale ground, she is so entitled
This finale was so underwhelming! And to think it was all cause HBO got thrifty
how bout "what if rhaenyra claimed vermithor"
What if the tragedy at Summerhall did not happen
YES GOOD POINT ITS SONS FOR A SON OMG
What if Jon Snow had silver hair and purple eyes
what if rhaena claimed vhagar
What if Balerion the black dread never died
What if Ygritte Lived
Maegor part 3
What if Viserys danys brother married Arianne Martell
What if viserys danys brother was good
Bad writing, bad production.