This would’ve made the war almost impossible because Cersei would’ve never risk her life but who knows maybe Joffrey is dumb enough to kill Ned anyways
@@lucone2937 who knows it would have to be someone powerful maybe the Hightower girl but she’s supposed to be a witch and I think she’s older so I don’t know
Off topic, but King Tommen would’ve gave up the crown to Dany to enlist her army to stop the White Walkers as long as he got to keep The Stormlands, or at least he’d be willing to if someone isn’t bending his arm to stay king
I think someone suggested this before, but what if magic just didn't exist? Let's say starting from the beginning of the series. Waymar Royce finds nothing beyond the Wall and returns to Castle Black, the direwolves are never found, Dany never wakes her dragons, Renly doesn't get assassinated by a shadow demon baby thing.
The iron throne would’t even exist because Aegon the conqueror doesn’t have dragons. So the status quo would continue it exist like it has for a long time at this point and the only borders that would be really changing would be in the riverlands That would be if it’s just didn’t exist. If it’s was at the beginning of the books like you said then I think Renly would stomp them all and win the throne relatively easy.
I think a better way of clarifying this might be: what if the magic of Plantetos actually died/faded away as had previously been speculated in canon? Dragons & White Walkers still existed in the past, just not anymore & can not be brought back.
If the dragons don't hatch that means Danny is going to get left with the left over dothraki that didn't leave after the kal died. Sooooo.... Danny dies....😮
I would ask why Robb wouldn't consider betrothing Theon to Sansa in exchange for his father's fleet? but keeping Theon at his side. Asha is a reaver, but she's also more forward-thinking. She might press her father on it. Maybe phrasing it like "We conquer the North in a different way while finishing what we started at Lannisport".
I think that Robb would be against a betrothal/marriage between Sansa and Theon for two reasons. One, Theon is essentially a prisoner of house Stark, even if Robb doesn't like to think of it that way. Theon's imprisonment/wardship would make a marriage between him and Sansa a bad idea. Theon's presence as a ward of house Stark is also what stops Balon from attacking the north in the mind of the Starks. As for the second reason, Balon doesn't really value Theon all too much. He sees him as a greenlander, and a betrayer of his ironborn roots. Due to his perception of mainlanders and his son, he wouldn't really care about a marriage between Theon and a non-Ironborn house, despite the potential political value it could have. (Mainly because Balon isn't very politcally savvy.)
It is interesting how a true Robert Baratheon heir born by Cersei and Sansa’s child would have grand parental links to the direct rulers of 4 individual kingdoms. That king would’ve been so well placed to unite much of the realm, especially if they then married a woman born of a Tyrell/Martell marriage. Would’ve been a brilliant plan if not for Cersei
Because twins usually skip generations. The Lannisters had twins in Tywin's father's generation (his father's two older brothers were twins, in fact), then none of Tywin's siblings were twins, and then he and his brother Kevan both sired twins. If Cersei's kids lived to parenting age, one or more of them might have had twins, but they're doomed, because Ned was the smart one and Cersei should have listened to him and taken the L.
Yeah, that was my thought as well. Especially since Twin gene tends to be stronger when the mother is a twin > the father being a twin (though that doesn't matter since their parents are twins). And Myrcella could be pregnant with twins herself.
@Gunleaver twins don't have to skip generations. Ain't uncommon for twins to occur for 2 or three generations in a row. Fraternal twins is genetic and the woman needs the trait to have them. So if a man could have a mother who is a twin, he himself has the twin gene but as a male ...he wont hyper ovulate haha. He can pass the trait onto a daughter who can have twins. Some men also seem to have multiple sets of twins with different women, but that could be a coincidence as the women could have the twin gene. Identical twins are supposed to be random ...but I know two families that each have multiple sets of identical twins, so maybe there is a genetic component to identical too that we just don't understand.
@jamiemohan2049 But the Lannisters are a family invented by GRRM, who decides how it's going to work. Not genetics. He's just running with the skip-a-generation thing.
*Absolutely Perfect!* 💯 I’ve love to see more stories about the hypothetical Robb X Myrcella marriage. Myrcella talking to Jaime about Bran’s accident, and her origin, how this effect Jaime Lannister character arc with his daughter being there, visiting him in his cell? And with the Hound rescuing Arya and delivering her to Robb Stark, it makes the Stark have a strong defence against the Lannister, wonder what’s Tywin’s strategy in dealing with Robb Stark in this scenario? Definitely love to see a *Part Two* of this what if, sees what this marriage effect future events? Like if the Tyrells still joined the Lannister, how would Robb continue his war effort? Either way, absolutely love this what if, Thanks for making this video! 🥰👍❤
✅ *What if Myrcella “Baratheon” married Robb Stark instead Joffrey & Sansa?* ✅ What if Varys kill The Mad King while Jamie was at the Tower Of Joy? What if Jamie & Tywin Lannister knows about Jon Snow? What if Ned won against Jamie at the Tower Of Joy? What if Gerold Hightower kill The Mad King while Jamie was at the Tower Of Joy? What if Rhaelle Baratheon, Robert, Stannis & Renly’s grandmother was still alive during Robert’s Rebellion? What if Robert Baratheon has a Trueborn daughter by Cersei Lannister? What if the Cordyceps from *The Last Of Us* was in Westeros?
Mozarella would defo throw a massive wrench in the way Cersei would treat Ned and the Starks in general. She wouldn't be so eager for any harm to come to her daughter, especially if her grandchild is to be the future lord of Winterfell.
So honestly, I think if the Purple Wedding still happens, and with the Lannisters losing Aryra during the Battle of the Blackwater, they're kind of forced to finally treat with the North since they now have no leverage. I don't think Robb continues his campaign to take the throne for himself, but he probably does solidify as the King of the North and the Riverlands. Its something that gets hammered in the books but Tywin is in such bad financial state and his own forces were repeatedly hammered by Robbs that he is completely financially dependent on the Tyrells. So I think even if he wanted too, he couldn't pursue further conflicts. So what I'm thinking is during the treaty, Robb gets Ice back, Ned gets a post-humous pardon now that Tommen is named King since Joffrey still gets assassinated, and the North splits off into its own realm ala Dorne. I think a lot of what occurs in Kings Landing does continue to play out though, Tyrion still gets accused of assassinating Joffrey and put on trial. Oberon still dies in the Trial by Combat. Tyrion still kills Tywin. But when Cersei becomes the Regent once more I think one of her first actions is to try and reignite the war against the North. Maybe Stannis in this timeline still flees to the North but and tries to get the Northern men to rally behind putting him on the Throne but in exchange is forced to take that L and acknowledge their independence.
Personally I almost don’t think Bran would have gotten pushed out the window- hear me out… after that marriage proposal happens I feel like Cersie would be so livid and heart broken that sex wouldn’t be on her mind. I feel like if anything Bran would see Jamie consoling her in the tower, giving her a hug as she either beat against his chest or wept at the prospect of “losing” her daughter. I think that’s what Bran would see, and he’d either slink away because… awkward… or he’d be caught. If he’s caught I don’t think “murder” would be the first thing to come to their minds, Cersie wasn’t completely unhinged yet like we see her in the end of the series and Jamie wouldn’t have any reason to push him. They’d let him go and the ripple effects of Bran never being paralyzed would be staggering. Just saying to me this is an argument to be made.
Valid. But it is also possible for the canon event to happen because as you said Cersei would be heartbroken and she would go to Jaime for sex for solace since it would give her at least a fleeting moment of pleasure and happiness in her despair and that's when Bran catches them and the canon event comes into place.
Honestly, the Stark/Lannister Pairing I think could, actually work is Tommen/Arya. I feel like Arya would take the lead, and be mentored by Tywin, and she'd follow in the footsteps of Olenna Tyrell.
What if Stannis won battle of ice. What if Stannis won battle of Blackwater. What if Robb joind Stannis. What if renly bend the knee to Stannis. What if. Robb married frey. What if Edmure tully killed the Mountain. What if vale joind Robb. What if balon invaded westerlands. What if Greens won Dance of dragons. What if Aemond killed Dameond. What if Tommen survied. What if joffrey survied
This is a fantastic what-if. Makes Myrcella a really compelling character and puts her in very difficult situations. In the show she was kind of just...there. This AU is even better because I know Robb and Myrcella would love each other fiercely but the world around them is so brutal and cruel their love has a slim chance of surviving making their story pretty compelling. Definitely need a part 2.
Ive had this idea for awhile, but what if Rhaenys went to Storms End instead of Lucerys. She's half Baratheon and a formidable diplomat. I never understood why Rhaenyra didn't sent her instead of luke, as Daemon and Caraxes could have easily taken Meleys place for a day while she was gone.
Did Renly undergo a personality transplant ? He's a raging narcissist. Narcissists, like sociopaths, aren't great with self-restraint and risktaking so he'll seize any opportunity to advance himself. He'd need to be an entirely different person for that to be possible.
@@sypherthe297th2 It's just a what if scenario considering Stannis offered to him the position of Hand as well as being his heir till he has a son despite Renly already pushing his claim even if he was far from the line of succession.
If Robert is afraid of Joffrey becoming king, maybe he would declare that the husband of Myrcella would become the heir, and in preparation, Ned could recommend Robb become Hand of the King instead of himself so that it's Robb going south instead of Ned, and Bran would be the new heir to Winterfell.
The problem is that a son always inherits before a daughter in Weateros outside of Dorne. She may not be queen but this scenario is addressed in the lead up to the Dance because it was one of the potential options at the Great Council of 101 A.C. that settled on male primogeniture. Its a part of the Dorne plot too as I recall.
Why would robert declare that? Even if Robert doesn't want joffrey as king, there's still tommen and there's no reason he'd want his own dynasty deposed from power.
@@mappingshaman5280 Choosing a second son over a first son often leads to infighting. And Joffrey would be able to convince Tommen to give up his throne. Selecting the firstborn over the first son is somewhat easier, but since she's a woman, it'd have to be her husband, and if it's a matrilineal marriage, you'd still have a Baratheon back on the throne after Robb. The Lannisters and Baratheons should both be fine with that, and without support from Cersei, Joffrey can't do anything about it.
@Voxdalian myrcella isn't a firstborn and I'm pretty sure there would still be infighting from putting myrcella instead of joffrey and probably a lot more than putting tommen instead of joffrey
Should do a video of what if Cersi and Robert actually have legitimate child but still have rest of the bastards. I always curious on event if Robert actually had legitimate first born son: Would Robert actually be a good father since he has someone remind him of his younger self? What’s the dynamic relationship with his siblings and his mother? Would he be like god-son to Ed? Would he be close friends with Jon and Rob? Would him and his grand-sire Tywin be close? Would he be a strong but wise being guided by notable figures around him? What event would happen or change? What’s his relationship with his uncles and cousins? Will him and Joffrey have some sort of one sided rivalry for the throne?
I don't think he would make a push for the Iron Throne, but the rest is 100% spot on. I guess Tommen would become the person Tyrion would use to weed out the mole in the Council/Get another Alliance. WHAT IF.... Myrcella survived being poisoned? Ramsey missed Rickon? Euron killd Balon before Theon's first return? Margaery escaped the Wild Fire?
The part 2 of this one needs to happen Also, as suggestion for the future: What If, after the incident with the pregnant cat, Robert sent Joffrey north/to dragonstone to be a ward?
Bran’s storyline would be different. The death of Lady was the necessary sacrifice for Cat’s prayers to be granted. Without that sacrifice, Bran would still be in a coma and possibly die.
Robb's Army suffered badly from attrition losing nearly half they men the went south with. That and winter was well on its way when they arrived at the twins. With fresh numbers, more resources, Robb taking himself and half his army back north, Tywin would immediately pounce on the Riverlands who are depleated. The Northerners, will have trouble rebuilding their army because of the geography and ongoing winter preparations. Robb cannot hold the Riverlands and even if he secured the North for a time, the Lannisters have all the time in the world to properly prepare an invasion force with everything they'd need to survive in the North. The North isn't uninvadable, just difficult.
Yes this is also something Robert hoped for in the future, he know he'd have to wait a few years after Sansa and Joffrey would get married (if they did) since Myrcella was very youbg, but yes Robert did want to strenghen it further like this it is true
Interesting, though the only thing I might think is a bit much is the prospect of two Frey marriages to the Starks. They already would get in with a royal family with just the one marriage not two, and I can even see Robb pointing this out like ‘You ask too much and barter with few.’ I can see Robb making the deal with at least one and if he had the choice he would have Sansa marry a Frey but if the Frey’s were given the choice of only one, they would definitely pick the child of Robb and Myrcella, that is if Myrcella is even pregnant by then. Then again, they always could make an agreement such as that on the occasion that Myrcella gets pregnant. I also don’t think Theon would kill Sansa because she would be more valuable as a salt wife than her torched and dead, and Theon make a show of him taking Sansa as his wife to keep with the Ironborn’s tradition of paying the iron price. I still think Sansa will flee successfully with Bran and Rickom but Theon would likely disguise Sansa’s friend, Jeyne, as the Stark Daughter just like Ramsey did in the books, only that he masqueraded Jeyne to be Arya instead of Sansa. Then when comes to the hostage situation, I think Robb could kill Jaime once Arya returns to him. They only kept Jaime alive because he would be a bartering tool to get Arya and Sansa back, but if Sansa is in the North and Arya is returned to Robb thanks to the Hound, then the Starks have no use for Jamie. They could send a message to the realm, especially to Tywin and Joffrey that if they don’t surrender within the fortnight, Jamie’s head will roll for the crimes of House Lannister against House Stark, those being the murder of Ned Stark and the attempted murder of Bran Stark, twice over. There could be some tension between Myrcella and Robb for this decision but I’d wager that after Jamie reveals the truth that he tried to kill Bran, Myrcella could say to Jamie ‘You’re not my father, you’re just a monster,’ and be okay with Jamie being executed. He could also make peace with the Umbers and Karstarks if Jamie is executed likewise for the deaths of the boys that Jamie killed, but that is assuming Jamie is willing to kill them in an attempt to escape if it could put Myrcella in danger.
Could you do what ifs for Rhaegar taking other noble women after Harrenhal? What if he took Cersei ? Ashara ? Catelyn? What if Theon was taken by Robert to foster/be a hostage instead? What if Joffrey was sent to Winterfell to foster early on ? What if Jaime and Cersei were normal twins ? She is still cruel and possessive but not sleeping with her twin. What if Ned Stark was sent to foster with Tywin Lannister at court ? Cunning Ned instead of "As high as honor" Ned would be fun. What if Joanna Lannister survived ? Tywin is ashamed of Tyrion but doesn't hate him. What if Davos never supplied Storm's End? It may free the Tyrell armies to join the royal armies. If they don't make it to the Trident they can protect King's Landing before Tywin gets there. Also no Stannis or Renly long term.
1: Tywin leaves only after rhaegar bangs lyanna, ashara isnt important enough, catelyn.. the riverlands probably fight for the targs, might switch sides tho. 2: he grows up even more of a little bitch due to king's landing have more brothels and pleasures. 3: Cersei malds over it, Joffrey either becomes a chadlite or even more of a psycho due to separation issues. 4: Lannister bastards are never born, Cersei does something bad if she ends up giving birth to Bobby's kids, bran never falls, whole story different. 5: i have no idea 6: Joanna won't hate tyrion, and since she loves him, Tywin starts warming up to tyrion, and doesnt go full denial when Tyrion becomes heir after jaime becomes kingsguard, a Tyrion heir to Casterly rock would be more respected, and Tywin would possibly groom him into being a chad 7: They probably join at the trident and the Royalty wins
@@alejandronunez5110 eh, if theyre cool with an 8 yr old Tommen marrying 16 yr old Margaery (they just dont consummate the marriage till Tommen become 15/16), then a young Lynna Stark could be wed to a 20 yr old Rhaegar. Rhaegar just has to wait for years
Great vid... Could u do a what if baelon survived house of the dragon and became king instead of viserys. What about a what if aurthur dayne excaped and took Jon to essos with daeny? And another one which is kinda boring but what if daeny figured out Jon was part targaryen.
What if Rhaenyra claimed Vermithor instead of Syrax? Context: For argument sakes, Syrax's egg doesn't hatch or Rhaenyra doesn't bond with Syrax. As such for her very early childhood she is dragonless. That changes after her Great-Grandfather Jaehaerys I passes away. Rhaenyra attends the old king's funeral with her family and members of the court. Vermithor lights Jaehaerys's pyre but doesn't leave for Dragonstone. Instead, the "Bronze Fury" walks over to Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra extends her hand out and despite the concern of her worried parents and the new monarchs Viserys and Aemma, she bonds with the dragon.
I can see her being a more active fighter in the Dance. For starters, she wouldve gone to Rook's Rest with Rhaenys as Vermithor has both size advantage and combat experience. Aegon and Sunfyre wouldve died as Meleys was already bullying Sunfyre by herself, so imagine if it was Meleys AND Vermithor. Tho, I can imagine Aemmond intervening sooner if Rhaenyra was there. Dragon bloodbath, Aegon and Rhaenys are going to be certified casualties, so its up to the two bronze dragons to settle things. If she exists, that would leave Syrax available, so it'd be Hugh who claims her. Its also likely that Syrax is less spoiled here as shes not bonded to anyone, however, shes not a skilled flier anymore as she never had a rider before Hugh. So, she still dies at Tumbleton, alongside Seasmoke and Tessarion. Silverwing still survives. If he survives Rook's Rest, I can also see Vermithor surviving the siege at the dragonpit. It'd be a repeat of the Red Sowing as seen at the show, cuz ye, dude is huge and a cranky old war vet who will not take kindly to humans attacking him. Also, at least a handful of dragons there are his and Silverwing's so I guess maybe paternal instincts plays a part too. Joffrey still dies, this time he gets burnt alongside everyone else as Vermithor wouldnt have seen him or cared. Maybe Rhaenyra gets to escape with Vermithor alongside her son Aegon. Not sure where it goes from there but yeah, 50-50 Vermithor survives.
16:32 Ned had a ship lined up that morning to shuttle Sansa & Arya back to Winterfell, who’s to say Syrio and Nymeria can’t clear some sort of path to get there quick enough? Just a thought though idk
Hey, I have an idea for another video; What if Joffrey was send to the north by Robert to try to make him a better man, or just making him more like his friend ned?
Wouldn't have any impact. He's damaged goods by that age. The only difference would be he'd likely get better at hiding his low grade psychopath as Ned isn't going to put up with that nonsense. But it'll still creep out and people will dread him being on the throne. He might be restrained enough not to have all 7 kingdoms rise up against him. Maybe just 4 or 5. 😅
I have suggestion: What if Jaime never killed Rickard Karstarks son? I feel like it’s pretty easy to find ways for this to happen. When Torrhen is in the cage checking Alton’s body he’s simply quick enough to dodge Jaime trying to choke him, or there’s a second guard with Torrhen so when Jaime tries to choke him he still fails.
I quite like this story it was very interesting In fact if someone made a book about this alternate universe or made a movie about this I would honestly watch it.
I think that Arya wouldn't go to King's Landing in this timeline, whatever Catelyn say, I think that the Sansa's betrothal was the reason for Arya also going to King's Landing, and even if she goes to King's Landing, then there is no way that Ned don't sent her back to Winterfell when the conflict at the court begins, without Sansa there is no reason to put off Arya's departure and also no warning on Cersei about the Stark departure, so there is no way that Arya would be in King's Landing when Ned was arrested. Although I think that if she were captured, then I think Cersei could return the play to Robert and Ned, you take my daughter from me, then I take yours from you, let's say that she would marry her to one of her sons, probably Tommen.
i doubt joffery kills ned because cersei is likely to be FAR more sorried with myrcella up north, and she will have a much tighter grip on joffery. Not just this, but a main reason joffery killed ned was cruelty; he wanted to make sansa suffer after she embarrassed him earlier. With her not present and arya captive (and the whole nymeria situation never happening) he likely hates the starkz far less than in the main timeline. Ned probably survives here and a hostage exchange occurs with the north swearing fealty (ned has to for aryas life)
of course half way he says something half-baked, but i get he's just trying his best so am gonna mute this tab and give him the full time in encouragement of learning
I have two thoughts about this what if. 1) would Joffrey actually have Ned executed without Sansa being there? I feel like the main part of why he chose it was to torture Sansa, he goes on a speech about his betrothed begging for her father’s mercy and he had such delight in dangling that possibility before snatching it away. Maybe without Sansa there, he defaults to keeping Ned a prisoner. 2) I think it would have been possible for Arya to stay hidden, for how long I’m not sure, but she did get into exploring the castle while she was a guest. While a direwolf is noticeable on the streets and castle grounds, there’s an entire keep for just dragon skulls that they could hide in. Maybe Arya and Nymeria could have stayed there, with Arya stealing food from the kitchens for them to survive. At the battle of the black waters, even though she doesn’t initially know what’s going on, she would still think it was her chance to escape with all the chaos going on. Just my thoughts.
- It'd be Johanna (f!Joffrey), Myrcella and Tinna (f!Tommen) - Johanna is heir until Cersei gives Robert a son, as Westerosi law states daughter before uncle - Projects harder on Johanna, who is def a mini Cersei, if not worse - Johanna gets engaged to Robb but since she's heir, Robb goes to court with her. Sansa and Arya still gets sent to court so both will get used to court life (also for Sansa to find a husband). Direwolves are fine cuz Johanna wouldnt be trying to pick a fight against Micah and Arya, she's just not trained for it. Tho, she does make a snide remark about Arya cuz shes essentially Regina George - Pray for the Starks, they need every blessing and protection from every known and unknown god in the asoiaf verse cuz yeah, Johanna is a nutcase. - Myrcella probs gets engaged to Loras and Tinna to a Martell Edit: Corrections
The idea that Robert would have any marriage qualms driven by Joffrey's behavior is a bigger rewrite than changing the birth order. Robert knows Joffrey is a piece o crap, but he is not going to do anything about it. Hell, in Robert's mind, marrying him to a Stark IS doing something about it. Robert has made Lyanna a symbol for everything he wishes was different. If Lyanna were his wife, his kids would be great, he wouldn't be so miserable, she wouldn't nag him all the time, and with the love of a good woman, he'd be a better man, he'd work harder at ruling, he wouldn't eat, drink or cheat so much and he'd be in better shape. This is also in his motivation for making Ned his Hand. Once he & Ned are back together, the good times will return. He'll be more invested in ruling and do a better job of it when Ned's there. Ned will make it fun, Ned won't nag him, or try to make him do the boring stuff, Ned will handle all that and make the rest of it fun and easy. Yes, Robert acknowledges the truth about Joffrey, but what does he do? On his death bed, he asks Ned to correct in four years, the problems that have built up over twelve. How? Don't know. Not his problem anymore, he's dying and he'll die content, certain that he has done his duty by leaving a good man in charge, because Ned will solve all the problems. He says the only thing that keep him from abdicating and running off to have fun is the idea of Joffrey on the Throne, with Cersei whispering in his ear. Okay, but if anyone can prevent that from coming to pass, if anyone can avert that prospect, it's Robert himself! Robert has absolute power in his family. He can make Joffrey and Cersei do whatever he wants! He can separate Cersei from the kids, lock her up in a convent, and set Joffrey to study and learn to be the best ruler possible, under the best teachers. He can send him to page and squire for Stannis or Ned at Dragonstone or Winterfell, to learn some discipline. He can set in motion the legal process to disinherit Joffrey, send him into exile or to the Wall or make him take septon or maester vows to remove him from the succession. Robert does none of this because it's too much effort and he does not care about making positive changes as much as he cares about the immediate pleasures in front of him. Since Robert's answer to every other problem in his life is to add a Stark, on some level, I think he believes that the marriage will work a miracle and make Joffrey behave and be a better man, or failing that, Ned's blood will win out in the next generation, and his grandson will be a scion Robert can be proud of. At the very least, if he can't be proud of Joffrey, he can be proud of Joffrey's in-laws. Given Robert's selfishness and self-delusions, I just don't see him giving up his dream for the welfare of a strange girl, even Ned's girl. Just as the answer he gives to his own question of how he could have produced a son like Joffrey is to transfer the responsibility to his mother, so too would he then do the same with Joffrey's wife. Not Robert's problem anymore, he's a grown-up, married man. In their culture, they see a woman's place is to tame the wildness of men, and Robert himself frames his abuse of his wife as something she did to him, that she made him into a wife-beater. Robert would not say "My son is a vicious and sadistic and likely to hurt his wife. I cannot let Ned's daughter be subject to that." Instead he would say "If anyone can calm him down, it's Ned's daughter." And then blame her when Joffrey abused her. The only way Robert would forestall or call off the betrothal for Sansa's sake would be if Ned made it very very clear to Robert that he was not willing to tolerate this, and that it was a hard-pass deal breaker and he would not allow Sansa to be endangered. This would piss Robert off a lot and probably overshadow their friendship going forward, but if he was made to believe that it was a choice between his friendship with Ned & the Joffrey-Sansa match, that's the only way I see him giving up. And it would take a lot, because Robert doesn't like to admit there are problems he doesn't want to see. Right up until Sansa suffered a serious injury at Joffrey's hands, he would be minimizing, dismissing or rationalizing away, any and all warning signs.
You don't need to change the ages of the kids, because Bobby B was really older than Lyanna Stark when they got betrothed. As cross marriages were a thing, they could marry Joffrey to Sansa (if ages aren't changed) or to Arya (if ages are changed). If ages are indeed changed & Arya is betrothed to Joffrey, they would have very similar hobbies: horse riding, fencing, etc. The same way Ghost threatened Tyrion for no reason, Nymeria could have threatened Joff for any reason. So Nymeria still is sent away & Arya is all alone in KL. In this mess, to gain the full support of the Vale or Dorne, Sansa could be betrothed to Sweetrobin or to Trystane, respectively.
14:33 bro this is out of character for renly. In the books, renly didn't actually think joffrey was a bastard and there's no indication he did in the show either. He claimed the throne because he wanted it, not because he thought he had the best claim.
in the books, Myrcella is wayyyyyyy smarter and wiser than all her counterparts. The Martels describe her as having Cerseis beauty, Jaimes dutiful wisdom and Tywin/Tyrions intellact and the most generous and kindest Lannister. I don't think she'll be light with Jaime, even if he is her uncle. Also in the books, Cersei doesn't love Myrcella and Tommen, she turns a blind sight to Joffreys torment against them and Cersei only loved and cherished Joffrey. SO I dont think Myrcella would do anything to oppose starts, instead I think she'll be on board witht he Starks.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the idea of Ned having no reason to deny a betrothal of his eldest son to Myrcella. I'd argue that Ned has every reason to not want to go through with this. This is going to take a second to explain, so bear with me. The North, for the most part, typically stayed out of Southron politics. So much to the fact that when Rickard Stark was making alliances with Houses Arryn, Baratheon and Tully, it was seen as odd by the citizens of the North. And this alliance would set into motion some of the most traumatic events in Ned's life. His father was burned alive by the mad king, his brother was strangled to death, and he watched as his sister died at the tower of joy. He was even denied to see the Mad King brought to Justice for the death of his father as Jaime Lannister stole that from him. (I can't prove that, but it makes sense. The Mad King pulled a dirty trick against Rickard Stark during his trial by combat.) After the Rebellion, all he wanted to do was go back north and live his life and it wouldn't surprise me that if Jon Arryn was still alive, then Ned would've stayed in Winterfell for the rest of his life. He doesn't like the South at all. Even when Robert was proposing a marriage pact for Jofffrey and Sansa, Ned tried to fight it by saying Sansa was too young. He didn't want her going to a dangerous land of treachery and death. It wasn't until Catelyn got Lysa's message that he was convinced to accept Robert's terms and go to King's Landing. That's just my take on Ned's character. Sorry to get caught up in that minutia. Good video, dude.
Can u make a part 2 of this? Cuz I would rlly like to finish this and see who would have won the iron thrown in the end (I read the books and I shipped Robb and myercella in the VERY beginning)(don't @ me cuz of the age gap)
I think Sansa would still go to court because she still needs to be married off and Cat specifically thinks that it’s time she learn the ways of a southern court because she will shine there.
I know it’s a long a long Shot but what if after Ned brought Jon and being raised in Winterfell at 13 or so Ned married him to Meera Reed since both Ned and her dad were truly aware of who he actually is and might see it as a way to protect him ?
The Starks actually DO care about political advantages. They love their children and prioritize their welfare over political advantages, but with that in mind, they are going to look at the pros and cons of any match. In OTL, it was the political benefits that made them agree to Robert's proposal. Ned was ready to refuse it all, but Catelyn pitched him on the political gains and he agreed on that basis, once they got the letter from Lysa claiming that the Lannisters had murdered their brother-in-law. It was precisely to rectify that power imbalance that made Ned decide to go along with it. We tend to idealize the Starks but Ned & Catelyn are very much products of their culture. They are better than most of the nobles of Westeros in some ways, but at no point does either of them ever entertain the notion of their children making romantic matches. Even after breaking Sansa's betrothal to Joffrey, Ned still intends that she marry someone of his choosing. Hell, she wanted to marry him for romantic reasons, and he was saying no, because he was the dad and knew best. Even after hiring Syrio Forel to give Arya sword lessons, Ned still tells her that she will marry a great lord. This is specifically in the context of discussing Bran's life prospects, since it has been determined that he will live but be paralyzed and unable to follow the normal lord-knight career track. Ned lays out different options, such as a career in the clergy or an administrative position or a naval commission, and Arya asks if she can do those things, and he tells her that she will marry a lord and her sons will do those things. And as for Robb, it's the same deal. He is expected to take a wife who will bring political advantages to House Stark. When he marries Jeyne Westerling, Catelyn's criticism is all about the lack of such advantages to the marriage, and at one point wishes that if he had to marry for the reasons he did (in the books, it was not love, but honor), it could have been to a woman with more troops and wealth in her family. Remember, Catelyn & Ned married to seal a political alliance, and the text strongly suggests that Catelyn was more interested in Brandon, whom she had been expecting to marry for several years, and had deliberately become invested in that relationship, while Ned was in love with Ashara Dayne. Catelyn had to ignore Brandon's death and marry his less attractive brother, and Ned had to put aside the woman he cared for, who may have been pregnant with his child, in order to marry Catelyn, specifically because with House Stark under attack by the crown, they needed the alliance. And it's the same scenario with accepting Robert's proposal - it looks like they are under attack again, and need all the political advantages they can get, to Ned agrees to Robert's offer.
I feel like the northern lords would say the marriage between Robb and myrcella is invalid because she's not a baratheon bc stannis sends letters to all the major lords that cersei birthed bastards
GOT Season 5 was a wasted opportunity if you asked me. Especially since Myrcella was going to marry into House Martell. In Dorne, women have equal inheritance and succession rights as men. So here's a what-if scenario. What if Prince Doran Martell convinced his new daughter in law, Myrcella to challenge Tommen's claim by pressing her rights to the Iron Throne? Imagine how this would rip apart House Lannister.
Being married to Myrcella doesn’t give Rob a claim to the throne. That’s like saying Cersei had a claim because she was married to Robert. The succession doesn’t work that way. Cersei ended up on the throne in the show because that’s what the writers needed to do to make their (fucked up) version of the story work. It definitely won’t go that way in TWOW.
![[Live] : ONE 169 วันนี้!! "อนาโตลี vs อูมาร์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IK3YZVWuFJg/mqdefault.jpg)
I like Myrcella. The show did her dirty. She's quite a nice girl in the books, she even talks back to Joffrey 😂
She was a victim of the Dorne plot line.
@@ultraviolet540 exactly
They coulda made her arc sooo interesting. Such a waste 😩
Congrats to the guy that kept suggesting this!
This would’ve made the war almost impossible because Cersei would’ve never risk her life but who knows maybe Joffrey is dumb enough to kill Ned anyways
Book Cersei would
Cersei didn't want Ned dead originally.
Who would be Joffrey's wife if not Sansa Stark? Margaery Tyrell was very smart woman and suitable for a Queen but Cersei wasn't her biggest fan.
@@lucone2937 who knows it would have to be someone powerful maybe the Hightower girl but she’s supposed to be a witch and I think she’s older so I don’t know
I absolutely love your "what if..." videos, they make me feel the same excitement as when I was waiting for new episodes of the series.
Same! Its like we get new asoiaf content
Myrcella is not a hostage, she’s the Lady of Winterfell and if the North proclaims Rob as king in the north, she would be their queen
Off topic, but King Tommen would’ve gave up the crown to Dany to enlist her army to stop the White Walkers as long as he got to keep The Stormlands, or at least he’d be willing to if someone isn’t bending his arm to stay king
Margery would have had NONE of that -or Cersi obviously
But you're right, he would want be willing
Never thought of that
I think someone suggested this before, but what if magic just didn't exist? Let's say starting from the beginning of the series. Waymar Royce finds nothing beyond the Wall and returns to Castle Black, the direwolves are never found, Dany never wakes her dragons, Renly doesn't get assassinated by a shadow demon baby thing.
War of the roses with different names
The iron throne would’t even exist because Aegon the conqueror doesn’t have dragons.
So the status quo would continue it exist like it has for a long time at this point and the only borders that would be really changing would be in the riverlands
That would be if it’s just didn’t exist. If it’s was at the beginning of the books like you said then I think Renly would stomp them all and win the throne relatively easy.
I think a better way of clarifying this might be: what if the magic of Plantetos actually died/faded away as had previously been speculated in canon? Dragons & White Walkers still existed in the past, just not anymore & can not be brought back.
@@jinxcrafter Yeah
If the dragons don't hatch that means Danny is going to get left with the left over dothraki that didn't leave after the kal died. Sooooo.... Danny dies....😮
I would ask why Robb wouldn't consider betrothing Theon to Sansa in exchange for his father's fleet? but keeping Theon at his side. Asha is a reaver, but she's also more forward-thinking. She might press her father on it. Maybe phrasing it like "We conquer the North in a different way while finishing what we started at Lannisport".
I think that Robb would be against a betrothal/marriage between Sansa and Theon for two reasons. One, Theon is essentially a prisoner of house Stark, even if Robb doesn't like to think of it that way. Theon's imprisonment/wardship would make a marriage between him and Sansa a bad idea. Theon's presence as a ward of house Stark is also what stops Balon from attacking the north in the mind of the Starks.
As for the second reason, Balon doesn't really value Theon all too much. He sees him as a greenlander, and a betrayer of his ironborn roots. Due to his perception of mainlanders and his son, he wouldn't really care about a marriage between Theon and a non-Ironborn house, despite the potential political value it could have. (Mainly because Balon isn't very politcally savvy.)
@@slormple"isn't very politically savvy" i think you mean he's a selfish stupid overconfident deluded reaving asshole x
It is interesting how a true Robert Baratheon heir born by Cersei and Sansa’s child would have grand parental links to the direct rulers of 4 individual kingdoms. That king would’ve been so well placed to unite much of the realm, especially if they then married a woman born of a Tyrell/Martell marriage. Would’ve been a brilliant plan if not for Cersei
Why not make Joffrey and Myrcella twins since they’re the children of twins?
Because twins usually skip generations. The Lannisters had twins in Tywin's father's generation (his father's two older brothers were twins, in fact), then none of Tywin's siblings were twins, and then he and his brother Kevan both sired twins. If Cersei's kids lived to parenting age, one or more of them might have had twins, but they're doomed, because Ned was the smart one and Cersei should have listened to him and taken the L.
Yeah, that was my thought as well. Especially since Twin gene tends to be stronger when the mother is a twin > the father being a twin (though that doesn't matter since their parents are twins). And Myrcella could be pregnant with twins herself.
@Gunleaver twins don't have to skip generations. Ain't uncommon for twins to occur for 2 or three generations in a row. Fraternal twins is genetic and the woman needs the trait to have them. So if a man could have a mother who is a twin, he himself has the twin gene but as a male ...he wont hyper ovulate haha. He can pass the trait onto a daughter who can have twins. Some men also seem to have multiple sets of twins with different women, but that could be a coincidence as the women could have the twin gene. Identical twins are supposed to be random ...but I know two families that each have multiple sets of identical twins, so maybe there is a genetic component to identical too that we just don't understand.
@jamiemohan2049 But the Lannisters are a family invented by GRRM, who decides how it's going to work. Not genetics. He's just running with the skip-a-generation thing.
This one definitely needs a part 2. So many different storylines can happen from this point.
*Absolutely Perfect!* 💯
I’ve love to see more stories about the hypothetical Robb X Myrcella marriage.
Myrcella talking to Jaime about Bran’s accident, and her origin, how this effect Jaime Lannister character arc with his daughter being there, visiting him in his cell?
And with the Hound rescuing Arya and delivering her to Robb Stark, it makes the Stark have a strong defence against the Lannister, wonder what’s Tywin’s strategy in dealing with Robb Stark in this scenario?
Definitely love to see a *Part Two* of this what if, sees what this marriage effect future events? Like if the Tyrells still joined the Lannister, how would Robb continue his war effort?
Either way, absolutely love this what if, Thanks for making this video! 🥰👍❤
Please, make a part 2 to that one. It always was my fav asoiaf althist scenario
✅ *What if Myrcella “Baratheon” married Robb Stark instead Joffrey & Sansa?* ✅
What if Varys kill The Mad King while Jamie was at the Tower Of Joy?
What if Jamie & Tywin Lannister knows about Jon Snow?
What if Ned won against Jamie at the Tower Of Joy?
What if Gerold Hightower kill The Mad King while Jamie was at the Tower Of Joy?
What if Rhaelle Baratheon, Robert, Stannis & Renly’s grandmother was still alive during Robert’s Rebellion?
What if Robert Baratheon has a Trueborn daughter by Cersei Lannister?
What if the Cordyceps from *The Last Of Us* was in Westeros?
Sothoryos has some crazy diseases, one of them could very well be similar to that for sure.
I love the "What if Jamie and Tywin Lannister know about Jon Snow" But id be cool with just Tywin knowing.
I’d still like to see the what if: Ned Stark married Ashara Dayne before Lyanna’s disappearance
Depending on how long they were married, and depending if she was in Dorne at the end of the war, he could convince her to pass Jon off as their son.
Mozarella would defo throw a massive wrench in the way Cersei would treat Ned and the Starks in general.
She wouldn't be so eager for any harm to come to her daughter, especially if her grandchild is to be the future lord of Winterfell.
I bet that one guy suggesting this what if is very happy
I think a part 2 to this one would have some decent potential, hope to see it!
So honestly, I think if the Purple Wedding still happens, and with the Lannisters losing Aryra during the Battle of the Blackwater, they're kind of forced to finally treat with the North since they now have no leverage. I don't think Robb continues his campaign to take the throne for himself, but he probably does solidify as the King of the North and the Riverlands.
Its something that gets hammered in the books but Tywin is in such bad financial state and his own forces were repeatedly hammered by Robbs that he is completely financially dependent on the Tyrells. So I think even if he wanted too, he couldn't pursue further conflicts.
So what I'm thinking is during the treaty, Robb gets Ice back, Ned gets a post-humous pardon now that Tommen is named King since Joffrey still gets assassinated, and the North splits off into its own realm ala Dorne. I think a lot of what occurs in Kings Landing does continue to play out though, Tyrion still gets accused of assassinating Joffrey and put on trial. Oberon still dies in the Trial by Combat. Tyrion still kills Tywin. But when Cersei becomes the Regent once more I think one of her first actions is to try and reignite the war against the North.
Maybe Stannis in this timeline still flees to the North but and tries to get the Northern men to rally behind putting him on the Throne but in exchange is forced to take that L and acknowledge their independence.
Personally I almost don’t think Bran would have gotten pushed out the window- hear me out… after that marriage proposal happens I feel like Cersie would be so livid and heart broken that sex wouldn’t be on her mind. I feel like if anything Bran would see Jamie consoling her in the tower, giving her a hug as she either beat against his chest or wept at the prospect of “losing” her daughter. I think that’s what Bran would see, and he’d either slink away because… awkward… or he’d be caught. If he’s caught I don’t think “murder” would be the first thing to come to their minds, Cersie wasn’t completely unhinged yet like we see her in the end of the series and Jamie wouldn’t have any reason to push him. They’d let him go and the ripple effects of Bran never being paralyzed would be staggering.
Just saying to me this is an argument to be made.
Valid. But it is also possible for the canon event to happen because as you said Cersei would be heartbroken and she would go to Jaime for sex for solace since it would give her at least a fleeting moment of pleasure and happiness in her despair and that's when Bran catches them and the canon event comes into place.
I could see these two loving each other fiercely. They would have been a great couple.
Honestly, the Stark/Lannister Pairing I think could, actually work is Tommen/Arya. I feel like Arya would take the lead, and be mentored by Tywin, and she'd follow in the footsteps of Olenna Tyrell.
What if Stannis won battle of ice. What if Stannis won battle of Blackwater. What if Robb joind Stannis. What if renly bend the knee to Stannis. What if. Robb married frey. What if Edmure tully killed the Mountain. What if vale joind Robb. What if balon invaded westerlands. What if Greens won Dance of dragons. What if Aemond killed Dameond. What if Tommen survied. What if joffrey survied
This is a fantastic what-if. Makes Myrcella a really compelling character and puts her in very difficult situations. In the show she was kind of just...there. This AU is even better because I know Robb and Myrcella would love each other fiercely but the world around them is so brutal and cruel their love has a slim chance of surviving making their story pretty compelling. Definitely need a part 2.
Ive had this idea for awhile, but what if Rhaenys went to Storms End instead of Lucerys. She's half Baratheon and a formidable diplomat. I never understood why Rhaenyra didn't sent her instead of luke, as Daemon and Caraxes could have easily taken Meleys place for a day while she was gone.
Next Up: What if Renly supported Stannis?
Did Renly undergo a personality transplant ? He's a raging narcissist. Narcissists, like sociopaths, aren't great with self-restraint and risktaking so he'll seize any opportunity to advance himself. He'd need to be an entirely different person for that to be possible.
@@sypherthe297th2 It's just a what if scenario considering Stannis offered to him the position of Hand as well as being his heir till he has a son despite Renly already pushing his claim even if he was far from the line of succession.
In the books they married Tommen to Margaery when he was 8 and she was 16. They just didn’t allow them to sleep together.
You should make a part 2!
If Robert is afraid of Joffrey becoming king, maybe he would declare that the husband of Myrcella would become the heir, and in preparation, Ned could recommend Robb become Hand of the King instead of himself so that it's Robb going south instead of Ned, and Bran would be the new heir to Winterfell.
The problem is that a son always inherits before a daughter in Weateros outside of Dorne. She may not be queen but this scenario is addressed in the lead up to the Dance because it was one of the potential options at the Great Council of 101 A.C. that settled on male primogeniture. Its a part of the Dorne plot too as I recall.
Why would robert declare that? Even if Robert doesn't want joffrey as king, there's still tommen and there's no reason he'd want his own dynasty deposed from power.
@@mappingshaman5280 Choosing a second son over a first son often leads to infighting. And Joffrey would be able to convince Tommen to give up his throne.
Selecting the firstborn over the first son is somewhat easier, but since she's a woman, it'd have to be her husband, and if it's a matrilineal marriage, you'd still have a Baratheon back on the throne after Robb.
The Lannisters and Baratheons should both be fine with that, and without support from Cersei, Joffrey can't do anything about it.
@Voxdalian myrcella isn't a firstborn and I'm pretty sure there would still be infighting from putting myrcella instead of joffrey and probably a lot more than putting tommen instead of joffrey
@mappingshaman5280 Did you watch the video?
The video creates the hypothetical that Myrcella WOULD BE the firstborn.
Should do a video of what if Cersi and Robert actually have legitimate child but still have rest of the bastards.
I always curious on event if Robert actually had legitimate first born son:
Would Robert actually be a good father since he has someone remind him of his younger self?
What’s the dynamic relationship with his siblings and his mother?
Would he be like god-son to Ed?
Would he be close friends with Jon and Rob?
Would him and his grand-sire Tywin be close?
Would he be a strong but wise being guided by notable figures around him?
What event would happen or change?
What’s his relationship with his uncles and cousins?
Will him and Joffrey have some sort of one sided rivalry for the throne?
What If Robert and Cersei Had A Son? (Game Of Thrones)
th-cam.com/video/RJ3VI0qK68c/w-d-xo.html
I don't think he would make a push for the Iron Throne, but the rest is 100% spot on. I guess Tommen would become the person Tyrion would use to weed out the mole in the Council/Get another Alliance.
WHAT IF....
Myrcella survived being poisoned?
Ramsey missed Rickon?
Euron killd Balon before Theon's first return?
Margaery escaped the Wild Fire?
The part 2 of this one needs to happen
Also, as suggestion for the future: What If, after the incident with the pregnant cat, Robert sent Joffrey north/to dragonstone to be a ward?
stannis chads him up
What if Robert made tommen heir.
Like you say he knows Joffrey has screws lose.
Cersei malds over it since she loves Joffrey more than the other kids
Bran’s storyline would be different. The death of Lady was the necessary sacrifice for Cat’s prayers to be granted. Without that sacrifice, Bran would still be in a coma and possibly die.
What if Dany married Jon Snow.
Like they expose Jon and Dany ate blood of the dragon to strengthen her claim to the throne.
Jon will still do something about her killing everyone
This would be cool
This needs a part 2
25:39 Hahahaha... Osha's like: In every timeline I'm fooked. I'm so done with all this lol
Just the question alone in the title got my brain tingling, a very interesting concept.
What if Hodor married Drogon?
Hey this is a cool vid!! I have a suggestion what if ser barristan went to Robb?
I enjoy whatever timeline that Lady lives.
of course in the genre of fanfiction Robb/'Cella is quite popular:)
Robb's Army suffered badly from attrition losing nearly half they men the went south with. That and winter was well on its way when they arrived at the twins. With fresh numbers, more resources, Robb taking himself and half his army back north, Tywin would immediately pounce on the Riverlands who are depleated. The Northerners, will have trouble rebuilding their army because of the geography and ongoing winter preparations. Robb cannot hold the Riverlands and even if he secured the North for a time, the Lannisters have all the time in the world to properly prepare an invasion force with everything they'd need to survive in the North. The North isn't uninvadable, just difficult.
Yes this is also something Robert hoped for in the future, he know he'd have to wait a few years after Sansa and Joffrey would get married (if they did) since Myrcella was very youbg, but yes Robert did want to strenghen it further like this it is true
Interesting, though the only thing I might think is a bit much is the prospect of two Frey marriages to the Starks. They already would get in with a royal family with just the one marriage not two, and I can even see Robb pointing this out like ‘You ask too much and barter with few.’ I can see Robb making the deal with at least one and if he had the choice he would have Sansa marry a Frey but if the Frey’s were given the choice of only one, they would definitely pick the child of Robb and Myrcella, that is if Myrcella is even pregnant by then. Then again, they always could make an agreement such as that on the occasion that Myrcella gets pregnant.
I also don’t think Theon would kill Sansa because she would be more valuable as a salt wife than her torched and dead, and Theon make a show of him taking Sansa as his wife to keep with the Ironborn’s tradition of paying the iron price. I still think Sansa will flee successfully with Bran and Rickom but Theon would likely disguise Sansa’s friend, Jeyne, as the Stark Daughter just like Ramsey did in the books, only that he masqueraded Jeyne to be Arya instead of Sansa.
Then when comes to the hostage situation, I think Robb could kill Jaime once Arya returns to him. They only kept Jaime alive because he would be a bartering tool to get Arya and Sansa back, but if Sansa is in the North and Arya is returned to Robb thanks to the Hound, then the Starks have no use for Jamie. They could send a message to the realm, especially to Tywin and Joffrey that if they don’t surrender within the fortnight, Jamie’s head will roll for the crimes of House Lannister against House Stark, those being the murder of Ned Stark and the attempted murder of Bran Stark, twice over. There could be some tension between Myrcella and Robb for this decision but I’d wager that after Jamie reveals the truth that he tried to kill Bran, Myrcella could say to Jamie ‘You’re not my father, you’re just a monster,’ and be okay with Jamie being executed. He could also make peace with the Umbers and Karstarks if Jamie is executed likewise for the deaths of the boys that Jamie killed, but that is assuming Jamie is willing to kill them in an attempt to escape if it could put Myrcella in danger.
Could you do what ifs for Rhaegar taking other noble women after Harrenhal? What if he took Cersei ? Ashara ? Catelyn?
What if Theon was taken by Robert to foster/be a hostage instead?
What if Joffrey was sent to Winterfell to foster early on ?
What if Jaime and Cersei were normal twins ? She is still cruel and possessive but not sleeping with her twin.
What if Ned Stark was sent to foster with Tywin Lannister at court ? Cunning Ned instead of "As high as honor" Ned would be fun.
What if Joanna Lannister survived ? Tywin is ashamed of Tyrion but doesn't hate him.
What if Davos never supplied Storm's End? It may free the Tyrell armies to join the royal armies. If they don't make it to the Trident they can protect King's Landing before Tywin gets there. Also no Stannis or Renly long term.
1: Tywin leaves only after rhaegar bangs lyanna, ashara isnt important enough, catelyn.. the riverlands probably fight for the targs, might switch sides tho.
2: he grows up even more of a little bitch due to king's landing have more brothels and pleasures.
3: Cersei malds over it, Joffrey either becomes a chadlite or even more of a psycho due to separation issues.
4: Lannister bastards are never born, Cersei does something bad if she ends up giving birth to Bobby's kids, bran never falls, whole story different.
5: i have no idea
6: Joanna won't hate tyrion, and since she loves him, Tywin starts warming up to tyrion, and doesnt go full denial when Tyrion becomes heir after jaime becomes kingsguard, a Tyrion heir to Casterly rock would be more respected, and Tywin would possibly groom him into being a chad
7: They probably join at the trident and the Royalty wins
Def need a part two
Def would wanna part 2 of this!
Love the video. the only thing i doubt is sansa unwillingness to go beyond the wall. I colud see the stopping in Castle Black and staying there
Love your content? What if Rhaegar married Lyanna instead of Elia?
She'd bee way too young, she'd have to be aged up considerably
@@alejandronunez5110 eh, if theyre cool with an 8 yr old Tommen marrying 16 yr old Margaery (they just dont consummate the marriage till Tommen become 15/16), then a young Lynna Stark could be wed to a 20 yr old Rhaegar. Rhaegar just has to wait for years
could you make this what if to be part 2
Great vid... Could u do a what if baelon survived house of the dragon and became king instead of viserys.
What about a what if aurthur dayne excaped and took Jon to essos with daeny?
And another one which is kinda boring but what if daeny figured out Jon was part targaryen.
What if Rhaenyra claimed Vermithor instead of Syrax?
Context: For argument sakes, Syrax's egg doesn't hatch or Rhaenyra doesn't bond with Syrax. As such for her very early childhood she is dragonless. That changes after her Great-Grandfather Jaehaerys I passes away. Rhaenyra attends the old king's funeral with her family and members of the court. Vermithor lights Jaehaerys's pyre but doesn't leave for Dragonstone. Instead, the "Bronze Fury" walks over to Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra extends her hand out and despite the concern of her worried parents and the new monarchs Viserys and Aemma, she bonds with the dragon.
I can see her being a more active fighter in the Dance. For starters, she wouldve gone to Rook's Rest with Rhaenys as Vermithor has both size advantage and combat experience. Aegon and Sunfyre wouldve died as Meleys was already bullying Sunfyre by herself, so imagine if it was Meleys AND Vermithor. Tho, I can imagine Aemmond intervening sooner if Rhaenyra was there. Dragon bloodbath, Aegon and Rhaenys are going to be certified casualties, so its up to the two bronze dragons to settle things.
If she exists, that would leave Syrax available, so it'd be Hugh who claims her. Its also likely that Syrax is less spoiled here as shes not bonded to anyone, however, shes not a skilled flier anymore as she never had a rider before Hugh. So, she still dies at Tumbleton, alongside Seasmoke and Tessarion. Silverwing still survives.
If he survives Rook's Rest, I can also see Vermithor surviving the siege at the dragonpit. It'd be a repeat of the Red Sowing as seen at the show, cuz ye, dude is huge and a cranky old war vet who will not take kindly to humans attacking him. Also, at least a handful of dragons there are his and Silverwing's so I guess maybe paternal instincts plays a part too. Joffrey still dies, this time he gets burnt alongside everyone else as Vermithor wouldnt have seen him or cared.
Maybe Rhaenyra gets to escape with Vermithor alongside her son Aegon. Not sure where it goes from there but yeah, 50-50 Vermithor survives.
I was scrolling and misread this as “what if Robert Married Myrcella Baratheon” did a double take and clicked the video.
16:32
Ned had a ship lined up that morning to shuttle Sansa & Arya back to Winterfell, who’s to say Syrio and Nymeria can’t clear some sort of path to get there quick enough? Just a thought though idk
Hey, I have an idea for another video; What if Joffrey was send to the north by Robert to try to make him a better man, or just making him more like his friend ned?
Wouldn't have any impact. He's damaged goods by that age. The only difference would be he'd likely get better at hiding his low grade psychopath as Ned isn't going to put up with that nonsense. But it'll still creep out and people will dread him being on the throne. He might be restrained enough not to have all 7 kingdoms rise up against him. Maybe just 4 or 5. 😅
@ well, at least would be intresting to see if he could change a little, but yes, probably he didn’t change
I have suggestion: What if Jaime never killed Rickard Karstarks son?
I feel like it’s pretty easy to find ways for this to happen. When Torrhen is in the cage checking Alton’s body he’s simply quick enough to dodge Jaime trying to choke him, or there’s a second guard with Torrhen so when Jaime tries to choke him he still fails.
I quite like this story it was very interesting
In fact if someone made a book about this alternate universe or made a movie about this I would honestly watch it.
I think that Arya wouldn't go to King's Landing in this timeline, whatever Catelyn say, I think that the Sansa's betrothal was the reason for Arya also going to King's Landing, and even if she goes to King's Landing, then there is no way that Ned don't sent her back to Winterfell when the conflict at the court begins, without Sansa there is no reason to put off Arya's departure and also no warning on Cersei about the Stark departure, so there is no way that Arya would be in King's Landing when Ned was arrested.
Although I think that if she were captured, then I think Cersei could return the play to Robert and Ned, you take my daughter from me, then I take yours from you, let's say that she would marry her to one of her sons, probably Tommen.
What if jon was sent to live with dany and viserys? (Along with a few household servants and funds)
i doubt joffery kills ned because cersei is likely to be FAR more sorried with myrcella up north, and she will have a much tighter grip on joffery. Not just this, but a main reason joffery killed ned was cruelty; he wanted to make sansa suffer after she embarrassed him earlier. With her not present and arya captive (and the whole nymeria situation never happening) he likely hates the starkz far less than in the main timeline. Ned probably survives here and a hostage exchange occurs with the north swearing fealty (ned has to for aryas life)
of course half way he says something half-baked, but i get he's just trying his best so am gonna mute this tab and give him the full time in encouragement of learning
I have two thoughts about this what if. 1) would Joffrey actually have Ned executed without Sansa being there? I feel like the main part of why he chose it was to torture Sansa, he goes on a speech about his betrothed begging for her father’s mercy and he had such delight in dangling that possibility before snatching it away. Maybe without Sansa there, he defaults to keeping Ned a prisoner.
2) I think it would have been possible for Arya to stay hidden, for how long I’m not sure, but she did get into exploring the castle while she was a guest. While a direwolf is noticeable on the streets and castle grounds, there’s an entire keep for just dragon skulls that they could hide in. Maybe Arya and Nymeria could have stayed there, with Arya stealing food from the kitchens for them to survive. At the battle of the black waters, even though she doesn’t initially know what’s going on, she would still think it was her chance to escape with all the chaos going on. Just my thoughts.
Excellent video ❤
What if Rhaenyra died while giving birth to Visenya?
What if Cersei had all daughters?
- It'd be Johanna (f!Joffrey), Myrcella and Tinna (f!Tommen)
- Johanna is heir until Cersei gives Robert a son, as Westerosi law states daughter before uncle
- Projects harder on Johanna, who is def a mini Cersei, if not worse
- Johanna gets engaged to Robb but since she's heir, Robb goes to court with her. Sansa and Arya still gets sent to court so both will get used to court life (also for Sansa to find a husband). Direwolves are fine cuz Johanna wouldnt be trying to pick a fight against Micah and Arya, she's just not trained for it. Tho, she does make a snide remark about Arya cuz shes essentially Regina George
- Pray for the Starks, they need every blessing and protection from every known and unknown god in the asoiaf verse cuz yeah, Johanna is a nutcase.
- Myrcella probs gets engaged to Loras and Tinna to a Martell
Edit: Corrections
The idea that Robert would have any marriage qualms driven by Joffrey's behavior is a bigger rewrite than changing the birth order. Robert knows Joffrey is a piece o crap, but he is not going to do anything about it. Hell, in Robert's mind, marrying him to a Stark IS doing something about it. Robert has made Lyanna a symbol for everything he wishes was different. If Lyanna were his wife, his kids would be great, he wouldn't be so miserable, she wouldn't nag him all the time, and with the love of a good woman, he'd be a better man, he'd work harder at ruling, he wouldn't eat, drink or cheat so much and he'd be in better shape. This is also in his motivation for making Ned his Hand. Once he & Ned are back together, the good times will return. He'll be more invested in ruling and do a better job of it when Ned's there. Ned will make it fun, Ned won't nag him, or try to make him do the boring stuff, Ned will handle all that and make the rest of it fun and easy.
Yes, Robert acknowledges the truth about Joffrey, but what does he do? On his death bed, he asks Ned to correct in four years, the problems that have built up over twelve. How? Don't know. Not his problem anymore, he's dying and he'll die content, certain that he has done his duty by leaving a good man in charge, because Ned will solve all the problems. He says the only thing that keep him from abdicating and running off to have fun is the idea of Joffrey on the Throne, with Cersei whispering in his ear. Okay, but if anyone can prevent that from coming to pass, if anyone can avert that prospect, it's Robert himself! Robert has absolute power in his family. He can make Joffrey and Cersei do whatever he wants! He can separate Cersei from the kids, lock her up in a convent, and set Joffrey to study and learn to be the best ruler possible, under the best teachers. He can send him to page and squire for Stannis or Ned at Dragonstone or Winterfell, to learn some discipline. He can set in motion the legal process to disinherit Joffrey, send him into exile or to the Wall or make him take septon or maester vows to remove him from the succession. Robert does none of this because it's too much effort and he does not care about making positive changes as much as he cares about the immediate pleasures in front of him.
Since Robert's answer to every other problem in his life is to add a Stark, on some level, I think he believes that the marriage will work a miracle and make Joffrey behave and be a better man, or failing that, Ned's blood will win out in the next generation, and his grandson will be a scion Robert can be proud of. At the very least, if he can't be proud of Joffrey, he can be proud of Joffrey's in-laws. Given Robert's selfishness and self-delusions, I just don't see him giving up his dream for the welfare of a strange girl, even Ned's girl. Just as the answer he gives to his own question of how he could have produced a son like Joffrey is to transfer the responsibility to his mother, so too would he then do the same with Joffrey's wife. Not Robert's problem anymore, he's a grown-up, married man.
In their culture, they see a woman's place is to tame the wildness of men, and Robert himself frames his abuse of his wife as something she did to him, that she made him into a wife-beater. Robert would not say "My son is a vicious and sadistic and likely to hurt his wife. I cannot let Ned's daughter be subject to that." Instead he would say "If anyone can calm him down, it's Ned's daughter." And then blame her when Joffrey abused her. The only way Robert would forestall or call off the betrothal for Sansa's sake would be if Ned made it very very clear to Robert that he was not willing to tolerate this, and that it was a hard-pass deal breaker and he would not allow Sansa to be endangered. This would piss Robert off a lot and probably overshadow their friendship going forward, but if he was made to believe that it was a choice between his friendship with Ned & the Joffrey-Sansa match, that's the only way I see him giving up. And it would take a lot, because Robert doesn't like to admit there are problems he doesn't want to see. Right up until Sansa suffered a serious injury at Joffrey's hands, he would be minimizing, dismissing or rationalizing away, any and all warning signs.
You don't need to change the ages of the kids, because Bobby B was really older than Lyanna Stark when they got betrothed. As cross marriages were a thing, they could marry Joffrey to Sansa (if ages aren't changed) or to Arya (if ages are changed).
If ages are indeed changed & Arya is betrothed to Joffrey, they would have very similar hobbies: horse riding, fencing, etc. The same way Ghost threatened Tyrion for no reason, Nymeria could have threatened Joff for any reason. So Nymeria still is sent away & Arya is all alone in KL.
In this mess, to gain the full support of the Vale or Dorne, Sansa could be betrothed to Sweetrobin or to Trystane, respectively.
I would like a part 2 plz.
What if Renly supported Stannis's claim to the Iron Throne
Myrcella Lannister becomes of that narsostic Lannister family
Cersie wont like that so in one story she tries to undermine the relationship sending Myrcellla warnings .It doesn't work but she tries.
14:33 bro this is out of character for renly. In the books, renly didn't actually think joffrey was a bastard and there's no indication he did in the show either. He claimed the throne because he wanted it, not because he thought he had the best claim.
in the books, Myrcella is wayyyyyyy smarter and wiser than all her counterparts. The Martels describe her as having Cerseis beauty, Jaimes dutiful wisdom and Tywin/Tyrions intellact and the most generous and kindest Lannister. I don't think she'll be light with Jaime, even if he is her uncle. Also in the books, Cersei doesn't love Myrcella and Tommen, she turns a blind sight to Joffreys torment against them and Cersei only loved and cherished Joffrey. SO I dont think Myrcella would do anything to oppose starts, instead I think she'll be on board witht he Starks.
the people are saying it we need a part two
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the idea of Ned having no reason to deny a betrothal of his eldest son to Myrcella. I'd argue that Ned has every reason to not want to go through with this. This is going to take a second to explain, so bear with me.
The North, for the most part, typically stayed out of Southron politics. So much to the fact that when Rickard Stark was making alliances with Houses Arryn, Baratheon and Tully, it was seen as odd by the citizens of the North. And this alliance would set into motion some of the most traumatic events in Ned's life. His father was burned alive by the mad king, his brother was strangled to death, and he watched as his sister died at the tower of joy.
He was even denied to see the Mad King brought to Justice for the death of his father as Jaime Lannister stole that from him. (I can't prove that, but it makes sense. The Mad King pulled a dirty trick against Rickard Stark during his trial by combat.)
After the Rebellion, all he wanted to do was go back north and live his life and it wouldn't surprise me that if Jon Arryn was still alive, then Ned would've stayed in Winterfell for the rest of his life. He doesn't like the South at all.
Even when Robert was proposing a marriage pact for Jofffrey and Sansa, Ned tried to fight it by saying Sansa was too young. He didn't want her going to a dangerous land of treachery and death. It wasn't until Catelyn got Lysa's message that he was convinced to accept Robert's terms and go to King's Landing.
That's just my take on Ned's character. Sorry to get caught up in that minutia. Good video, dude.
Can u make a part 2 of this? Cuz I would rlly like to finish this and see who would have won the iron thrown in the end (I read the books and I shipped Robb and myercella in the VERY beginning)(don't @ me cuz of the age gap)
I think Sansa would still go to court because she still needs to be married off and Cat specifically thinks that it’s time she learn the ways of a southern court because she will shine there.
what if jaime married Lyanna Stark
Could you do a What if Rhynera Mard Gwayne Hightower? Please.
What if The Mountain Gregor Clegane was a Honorable Knight? And saved both Elia and her children from the Lannisters?
What if the red wedding didn't go as planned Rob and his wife survived maybe his mother sacrifices her self to save them
I have a suggestion what if after the rebellion Ned chose to make the Nort a independent Kingdom
I know it’s a long a long Shot but what if after Ned brought Jon and being raised in Winterfell at 13 or so Ned married him to Meera Reed since both Ned and her dad were truly aware of who he actually is and might see it as a way to protect him ?
The Starks actually DO care about political advantages. They love their children and prioritize their welfare over political advantages, but with that in mind, they are going to look at the pros and cons of any match. In OTL, it was the political benefits that made them agree to Robert's proposal. Ned was ready to refuse it all, but Catelyn pitched him on the political gains and he agreed on that basis, once they got the letter from Lysa claiming that the Lannisters had murdered their brother-in-law. It was precisely to rectify that power imbalance that made Ned decide to go along with it.
We tend to idealize the Starks but Ned & Catelyn are very much products of their culture. They are better than most of the nobles of Westeros in some ways, but at no point does either of them ever entertain the notion of their children making romantic matches. Even after breaking Sansa's betrothal to Joffrey, Ned still intends that she marry someone of his choosing. Hell, she wanted to marry him for romantic reasons, and he was saying no, because he was the dad and knew best. Even after hiring Syrio Forel to give Arya sword lessons, Ned still tells her that she will marry a great lord. This is specifically in the context of discussing Bran's life prospects, since it has been determined that he will live but be paralyzed and unable to follow the normal lord-knight career track. Ned lays out different options, such as a career in the clergy or an administrative position or a naval commission, and Arya asks if she can do those things, and he tells her that she will marry a lord and her sons will do those things.
And as for Robb, it's the same deal. He is expected to take a wife who will bring political advantages to House Stark. When he marries Jeyne Westerling, Catelyn's criticism is all about the lack of such advantages to the marriage, and at one point wishes that if he had to marry for the reasons he did (in the books, it was not love, but honor), it could have been to a woman with more troops and wealth in her family.
Remember, Catelyn & Ned married to seal a political alliance, and the text strongly suggests that Catelyn was more interested in Brandon, whom she had been expecting to marry for several years, and had deliberately become invested in that relationship, while Ned was in love with Ashara Dayne. Catelyn had to ignore Brandon's death and marry his less attractive brother, and Ned had to put aside the woman he cared for, who may have been pregnant with his child, in order to marry Catelyn, specifically because with House Stark under attack by the crown, they needed the alliance. And it's the same scenario with accepting Robert's proposal - it looks like they are under attack again, and need all the political advantages they can get, to Ned agrees to Robert's offer.
What if Viserys survied. And invaded westeros with dohraki
What if jamie had his right hand
Make a part 2
What if ned stark married ashara dayne?
I feel like the northern lords would say the marriage between Robb and myrcella is invalid because she's not a baratheon bc stannis sends letters to all the major lords that cersei birthed bastards
What if mad king married Joanna Lannister
The wedding banner would be "SUCK IT, TYWIN LMAO 🖕🖕🖕"
I think this would only be possible if Tywin had married a different woman (Olenna Redwyne as his wife?)
What if Edmure Tully obeyed the command to hold riverrun and didnt interfere with the plan the Blackfish and Robb had?
WHAT IF :Robert found out about Jamie and Cersei
What if Rhaegar married Cersei like Tywin proposed instead of Elia?
Not that it changes anything, but I think Joffrey is meant to be 12 instead of 14/15 like you said
GOT Season 5 was a wasted opportunity if you asked me. Especially since Myrcella was going to marry into House Martell.
In Dorne, women have equal inheritance and succession rights as men. So here's a what-if scenario.
What if Prince Doran Martell convinced his new daughter in law, Myrcella to challenge Tommen's claim by pressing her rights to the Iron Throne?
Imagine how this would rip apart House Lannister.
What if stannis had fostered sweet robin like Jon Arryn was going to before he died
Being married to Myrcella doesn’t give Rob a claim to the throne. That’s like saying Cersei had a claim because she was married to Robert. The succession doesn’t work that way. Cersei ended up on the throne in the show because that’s what the writers needed to do to make their (fucked up) version of the story work. It definitely won’t go that way in TWOW.
What if daemon and caraxes lived
What if Viserys got Deamon married to Alicent Hightower