Well, the purpose of the comment was to point out that people are more likely to be biased towards the view they believe rather than looking at the arguments objectively. I personally am a Christian, but I think that both Craig and Hitchens had some good arguments. I also think that Hitchens could have answered some of those questions more directly and I think that Craig could have listened more to what Hitchens was saying to respond better. It seemed like they were both focused on making there own case instead of responding adequately to the other person.
I've had the pleasure in my life to have attended debates that featured Christopher Hitchens. As a theist I found him to be abrasive and often angering, but that speaks more to his brilliance because he forced me to think about other positions on theology as a whole. We don't have to agree on anything to be kind to one another. If you are making disgusting comments about him, it is my contention that it speaks more about you than about the late Mr Hitchens.
Derric Hovekamp of all the people whom I have heard make statements and comments about life after death, heaven and such things, and say without apologizing that they were wrong, I'm curious what they have to say now that they are in the axact place they swore didn't exist. what do they have to brag about now.
I'm sorry, but that is such an extraordinary claim that I implore you to provide extraordinary evidence to back up said claim. “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens
Derric Hovecamp - You was forced to think.... that means you are not a theist anymore, right? This should be the logical outcome of thinking, I mean, rationaly of course. Everybody think. Some rationaly. Many irrationaly.
@@LGpi314 The rule is that you must separate words that aren’t part of the sentence but instead comment on the meaning of the sentence. Put another way, introductory words that appear at the beginning of a sentence are set off from what follows by commas. If you omit these words, the sentence still means the same thing. Common introductory words include yes, no, well, oh, okay and in this case "man". As in geez or sheesh. 🤣🤦♂️
I find it ironic that you're telling Mr hitchens to "rest in peace". Mr hitchens, according to his own words is only to become dust and thus someday he will be completely forgotten. Or, he will soon meet his maker and have to account for denying His existence. Sadly, either way, he will at best, be experiencing nothingness or intense regret.
Dr. Craig just won't let go of the argument that "Christopher has not presented any arguments that atheism is true." Hitchens addressed this directly multiple times....... In one ear and out the other..... and rather quickly
@@CedanyTheAlaskan I don't think Hitchens did so to anywhere near the same degree or against similarly valid criticism. Craig started with basically that exact same line at the beginning of each of his arguments, Hitchens at least attempted to deconstruct his arguments thoughtfully and with adaptability. I don't think the same can be said for Craig.
I was born into a very fervent Southern Baptist family in the most northeastern corner of Arkansas in a very small rural town where every single person were all members of the one Southern Baptist little church in our tiny little town. When I was older, I went into theology and became an ordained minister. Throughout the years of doing “God’s work”, I would preach the consequences of not surrendering one’s self to my God, and I was absolutely convinced that my interpretation of my version of my denomination of my religion was the only true interpretation of the only true version of the only true denomination of the only true religion. Then I stumbled upon Christopher Hitchens. My first impression was that he was just another God hating atheist. But the points that he brilliantly presented kept coming back into my mind. Eventually, if I were to be intellectually honest with myself, I had to stop preventing myself from doing my own research. After years of studying and doing my own research, I realized that I had been wrong about my religious convictions and was finally brave enough to admit it to myself and let it go.
@shawnsimmons1308 To not be deceived anymore, sort the comments and read as many of my posts (both answers and threads) as you can because *I have proved* not only God's existence and God's perfection, but also all the errors of the atheists and generally of all the unbelievers of the truth, who posts on such videos (they never had valid counter arguments but only lies, insults, ... ad hominem attacks instead).
It does take a lot to break through indoctrination, peer pressure and just a belief system one has grown up surrounded by. And it takes time and honesty to genuinely evaluate one's worldview. Filmeseverin has not managed it it and most likely never will be capable of such a feat. So well done in breaking through and accepting reality above ancient stories and mythology.
@@El_Bruno7510 You are a deceiver because you kow already that I have been an atheist. Anyway, after hearing the truth about/from God/Jesus, only those who want to use freedom for evil are opposing to Divinity, feeling their freedom restricted, the really good humans being happy to receive the confirmation for their love of / striving for goodness, wisdom, justice... for perfection, as Jesus Christ has said: *_"Be perfect therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect"_* Matthew 5, 48 Unfortunately, too many people have refused over history, and too many still refuse nowadays, to follow this. Without *true belief* in God/Jesus, the following evil facts have happened, are happening and will happen, unfortunately: - so many millions of people killed in wars and not only (following the killing of billions in the Third World War); - so many trillions of dollars, euros, etc. wasted on nuclear, chemical, biological and conventional weapons, on armies, etc. only for killing and destruction... not used for: free better education for ALL, suitable jobs for ALL (without exploitation / slavery), healthier food for ALL, renewable energy, science, eradication of all diseases, better housing (resistant to earthquakes...), financing of useful inventions, recycling, reforestation etc. - sadism, violence, dishonesty, vices, envy ... stupidity in general.
Those 12 word sums up atheism perfectly! Here's another thing i tend to say when people ask why i call myself an atheist: Religious people believe 1 god and reject 999 gods, as an atheist I simply reject all 1000 gods.
Respect to Biola for actually platforming the opposition and providing a debate that students can derive their own conclusions from. Amazing how only about 6 years after this, the new norm is anything but hearing both sides
@@filmeseverin really? some historian said that some people said Jesus was not in his grave and that makes you believe he is God? could you be any more gullible?
I didn’t come for the two very well educated men that engaged in a debate. I came for the REAL educated experts in this comment section. Edit: Y’allwent crazy on my comment LOL. I can spot the “educated experts” that have no idea what they’re talking about (Looking at you Atheist)! Though some of you atheists bring up good points consistent with other educated atheist, a lot of you are kinda failing lol. Keep going y’all, it’s fun to watch and get a fricking email every time someone comments :/
2 well educated men in the debate? I hope you do not mean that, since "Dr." Craig has still not understood what atheism is and is perfectly happy to openly show how ignorant he is on basic biology and evolution
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." ---Bertrand Russell That says a lot about religious people like filmeseverin and freshapologetics.
In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.
I do too. I found it quite refreshing to see the evangelical host of the event appeared genuinely welcoming to Hitchens and the atheist/agnostic community in attendance, plus he had a good sense of humor. Bravo.
@@Relaxpresenterwithout God there would be no internet, without God there would be nothing. God is, God was, God is eternal, God is sovereign. He is the beginning the end. I feel sorry for people that don't believe. Whats the point of life. Please don't say evolution, biggest crock ever plus there is no God? Yes there is a God! I can't make someone believe in God. Believing in God takes faith. No one ever made believe, my heart told me , its a feeling of knowing. This is just my opinion.
Appealing to emotion and playing to the audience is far more visually entertaining than reasoned discussion. If politicians had to build a convincing argument and cite facts as a basis, the population would realise they make it up as they go along.
Because they rid themselves of the intelligentsia because they thought it would be wise Now public opinion is formed by directly involving the people in discussions instead of letting them be arbiters between intellectuals, the only thing the people are somewhat good at Bought and paid for 'intellectuals' telling the people what to think, the rise of the term 'intellectual honesty' while it was supposed to be integral The 'dangers' of having capable intellectuals, debaters, ruining establishment narratives A new order based on fear and control brought by certified intellectuals and technocrats
Mr. Craig is putting real effort into not listening, to the guy he is debating ... I think no matter what Hitchens had said, the answers would have been the same from Mr. Craig.
There are two kinds of atheists: those only temporarily deceived, being too superficial regarding the Creator of this reality (as I used to be due to the atheistic education under the communist regime) and those who do not want God to exist, who deny everything that proves their errors, such as all my simple, clear and undeniable demonstrations (found quite easily after sorting the comments).
@@filmeseverin if "god" exists, which one is it then, there are hundreds of religions. And if your "god" exists, why not just bring him out. Something that only exists in someones mind is a fantasy, nothing else. There is though only one kind of religious extremist, those who believe in, something that should be physical, but only exist in their heads ...
@@Socialistenif you think all religions are fake that’s fine, but if you think each of them all are equally worth consideration then you are even worse than all
Atheists are stupid. They aren't that skeptical when it comes to day to day life and somehow become very skeptical when it comes to God. They can't define the criterion for proof or disproof, just try very hard to stick with their lunacy with stupid arguments.
How often, these days, would a college crowd allow to speak guests who differ from them? And how often, these days, would speakers who differ from each other treat each other with respect and courtesy? How horribly things have changed over the past decade.
This was done because the crowd, venue and speaker thought they could handle Mr. Hitchens in a variety of ways. They'll never understand he has more conviction than they do. He wasn't given his opinion he formed his own and he knows it. The world won't be the same without you Christopher. Cheers mate!
@@Datharass Correct. Hitchens is non-emotional, fact-based, and simply factual. WLC, per usual, seems like he is working on a sermon. Hitch is prepared for a conversation, WLC is prepared for a paper with footnotes.
rn they would be jumping up infront of the speakers screaming and chanting all while the gutless faculty does nothing until eventually someone pulls a fire alarm
I have to say, listening to Dr Craig is really painful. He is simply not listening to Christopher at all and to be quiet frank, he sounds like a religious fanatic or lunatic and just like any fanatic, no matter how good an argument is, if it goes against anything they have been taught, they just won't accept it.
@geno81 Atheists cannot answer seriously to the *Are you and this world the result of no intelligence?* question, otherwise, they would have to admit the existence of God, because *from no intelligence involved no intelligence comes.* That is why, for example, George Enescu has said: "In my humble opinion, you have to be really naive to seriously declare that God does not exist." By the way, those who sort the comments and read enough from my posts (both answers and threads) can see that *I have proved* that this reality has been created by an eternal perfect Intelligence (called God / the Creator) whose nature will never be really comprehended by humans (because of our proved limitations) except through Jesus Christ, the human form of God.
@@filmeseverin More bullcrap and still no evidence of your god or any other gods. Reposted as S P A M 1. *"From no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes":* This is a blatant case of circular reasoning. You assume intelligence must be the source of all intelligence and then present this assumption as proof. That’s not logic; that’s intellectual laziness. Evolutionary biology and neuroscience explain how intelligence emerges from simpler processes. You’d know this if you bothered to read a science textbook instead of clinging to simplistic platitudes. 2. *"The perfection of mathematics proves God's perfection":* This is a category error. Mathematics is a human-created system to describe patterns and relationships-it doesn't "prove" anything about supernatural beings. Claiming math is "perfect" only highlights your shallow understanding of both math and reality. Math reflects the consistency of the universe, not some divine perfection. 3. *"Photons and atoms have intelligence":* This is sheer nonsense and demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of physics and chemistry. Photons and atoms don’t have "intelligence"; they follow natural laws. Saying they’re "intelligent" because they behave predictably is like saying a rock is intelligent for staying on the ground when you drop it. 4. *"God is eternal and not bound by time":* This is just a baseless assertion. You’re asking us to accept your claim without evidence while also dismissing the need for evidence because "God is beyond comprehension." That’s not an argument-it’s an evasion. If God is so incomprehensible, how can you claim to know anything about Him, let alone His motives or attributes? 5. *"God hides direct evidence to test us":* This is classic special pleading. You excuse the absence of evidence by claiming it’s intentional. If God’s existence is so obvious, why would He need to hide? And why would an all-loving deity care more about blind faith than genuine understanding? That’s not love; that’s manipulation. 6. *"The works of Satan":* Blaming carnivores, parasites, and diseases on Satan is laughably archaic and ignores the mountain of evidence for natural processes like evolution. It’s easier for you to cling to medieval myths than to face the uncomfortable reality that nature is indifferent and complex, not divinely choreographed. 7. *"Freedom to choose goodness":* This argument falls apart under scrutiny. If God really wants us to choose goodness freely, why create a system where ignorance, suffering, and confusion are rampant? A truly good God would equip everyone with the same clear understanding, not rig the game with hidden evidence and arbitrary punishments. 8. *Biblical quotes as "evidence":* Quoting scripture to prove your point is circular reasoning. You’re essentially saying, "God exists because my holy book says so," which is meaningless to anyone who doesn’t already share your faith. Try using actual evidence instead of ancient texts riddled with contradictions and moral atrocities. *Your entire argument is built on fallacies: circular reasoning, special pleading, appeals to ignorance, and emotional manipulation.* You’ve proven nothing except your inability to engage with science or logic in good faith. If this is the best you have, maybe it’s time to reconsider the strength of your beliefs instead of parroting tired apologetics that crumble under scrutiny.
@@filmeseverin To claim that "you have to be really naive to seriously declare that God does not exist" is not only intellectually lazy, but outright dismissive of centuries of rigorous philosophical inquiry and scientific investigation. This type of arrogant, condescending thinking ignores the core issues raised by **David Hume** , **Bertrand Russell** , and **Richard Dawkins** , who have all argued with far more sophistication and logic than your blanket dismissal of atheism. Hume's **"Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion"** critiques the idea that the world must be designed by a perfect being, showing that humans project their own understanding of order and purpose onto the cosmos, which could just as easily be random or governed by indifferent forces. **Russell** in **"Why I Am Not a Christian"** critiqued the moral arguments for God's existence, pointing out that a benevolent, omnipotent God would not allow the suffering and evil we observe in the world. **Dawkins** , meanwhile, in **"The God Delusion"** , dismantles the traditional theistic arguments-cosmological, teleological, moral-while offering a compelling case for naturalism, showing how evolution and natural processes can explain complexity without resorting to a divine designer. The claim that God’s nature cannot be comprehended by humans, except through a very particular theological lens, is also an intellectually cowardly stance. **Immanuel Kant** argued that human cognition is limited, not that there is an impenetrable divine mystery we must simply accept. This claim weakens any genuine understanding of religion. Instead of engaging with the profound problems of theism-such as the problem of evil, contradictions within religious texts, or the historical fallibility of religious institutions-those who invoke this argument prefer to retreat into unprovable faith and comfort themselves with untestable dogma. By relying on faith in a divine explanation while dismissing centuries of critical thought, this type of argument isn't offering wisdom; it’s evading reality. The **"argument from ignorance"** -that just because we don’t have all the answers, God must fill the gap-is both intellectually dishonest and historically discredited. The **"God of the gaps"** argument has been used to justify everything from flat-earth cosmology to outdated medical practices and must be discarded in any serious intellectual conversation. In reality, dismissing atheism as "naive" isn't a robust defense of theism; it's an admission of the inability to address its challenges head-on, and it reveals nothing more than intellectual arrogance devoid of understanding. **Sam Harris** describes this as the **"faith-based delusion"** -a blind adherence to ideas because they offer comfort or tradition, rather than rational, evidence-based belief. If you claim that these intellectual giants are all wrong simply because they don’t agree with your conclusions, it says more about your inability to engage in critical thought than about the validity of your beliefs.
@Thomas Jefferson You got evidence for the disciple's , bit of conformation bias along with large does ignorant happening here.The bible is the claim ,you cant use the bible as evidence ,its not.
Regardless of the content of this video, I think we should all salute the quality of the debate !! It was so highly civilized, respectful and organized that I "a third language English speaker" could fully understand and keep up with the argumentation and the logic followed by each of the debaters. I'm from Tunisia, an Arabic country in north Africa, where this kind of debates might never take place, and if it ever does, there won't be that many of an audience to attend it, as the population doesn't really seek to prove or to disprove their belief, and they are just ok with keeping their faith as it is without shaking it with doubt even if that would actually strengthen their religious view. I felt so badly urged to comment on this video, for its value and importance for the freedom of speech, of questioning, criticizing and arguing what is sacred or taboo to others. Thank you BiolaUniversity for publishing this online, so could I and many others around the world benefit of this high quality debate, that we can't host in our countries depriving its people of their right to discuss the matters that society forbids.
Since you say you are Tunisian and that English is your "third language", let me make a bet on what is you "second language": Bienvenue dans le monde de la pensée critique Akram :)
If it would be the only good thing the Arab world could learn from the "West", than it´s vital for a society to be openly discuss all relevant things humans are "touched" by. I know there are several attempts in societies like yours to do it like here and I hope people go this way everywhere, because it prevents us from totalitarianism in every form. Stay safe and curious, maybe you yourself become the "savior" of your broken society. My thoughts are with you!
Akram, your English is very good for a 3rd language. And I really appreciate your post. But I wonder, who do you agree with, Hitchens or Craig. I can assure you 100% that Craig has the truth. There is the one true God in heaven who loves us and sent His Son, Jesus Christ to die on the cross, to pay the price for our sins. And Christ is coming back again someday to take His children home. May God bless you richly.
@@davewalt1781 Thanks :) without taking any position, and just considering the fact that both of them are struggling or trying hard to convince, only means that the existence of God isn't really that obvious or undeniable ! It is still under debating and argumentation, and we are not certain. My personal opinion, is that "I don't know" but I won't take religion as a final answer. Religion won't stop my curiosity to know the truth, I will keep looking and I will simply admit my current ignorance based on lack of proof. That's why I appreciate this kind of conversations, because I learn !
The church's wealth is used to build and maintain hospitals, charities and for other humanitarian purposes. I'm sure not all is for good though, but majority of it is for good. In the early Church of St. Peter, the people gave their wealth to him so that everyone shared wealth and had what they need. No one was without. The same thing is done by the Church now but on a much grander scale. Some of the Church's wealth is used to renovate old churches to attract more church goers and for other humanitarian reasons.
They do give their wealth to the poor. You may say, "Then why is the Vatican so grand and beautiful?" Well, that took many years to build and art is art. It's treated as a holy place also for the congregation of Catholics and Christians so it serves a good purpose. The Vatican now only spends in maintainence and not too much on making new things without reason.
Rae Estomata then they should use the money they aren’t spending on patronage to further alleviate the poor, perhaps even enough to make a significant difference to the worldwide poverty scene.
@@amonks891 to be fair, poverty is a reoccuring problem that really depends on the government and other high-profile companies. I don't know how much money you think the Church has but you have to consider the amount to pay for tax on property and all the other small things that run a building/organization. You can ask the same thing of big companies like Microsoft who donate much to charity because they are required to. And yet, poverty still exists in the world. The Church alone selling all they have or just giving everything away will not help the poor forever, but it will cause current charities, hospitals, and churches they have to collapse. Poverty is solved by multiple people (govt, individuals, large companies) and cannot be shouldered by the Church alone.
@@amonks891 to add to that, the Church in itself is a sanctuary for criminals or people in need. There's that law that dictates if someone asks for sanctuary in a church or seminary, the government can't touch them. It's not a one-all-be-all effort the Church does to help the poor. It's a continuous process that exists to help them because giving away everyting at one moment will only last for a short while. They already do have programs for the poor but it depends on what country you are in.
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
1:58:30 Check out the audience in the background. A lot of kids....people in their late teens and early 20s. And just watch them...all of them. Look how _interested_ and curious they all just seem. It seems pretty blatantly obvious to me. I honestly think Hitchens did a _huge_ service in showing up for this debate...at a Christian college. And it's just fascinating to watch this entire debate, and then almost 2 hours in, see the faces of just a tiny portion of the young audience there. I think his form of thinking absolutely had a lasting impact on many of them. Hell, this was 11 years ago...some of these people are now in their 30s. My brother used to be 100% on the young evangelical track....now, it's been many years since he's left that behind. Happened to me too. I'm 37....but from about 1997 to 2003 I was absolutely in the same camp...and convinced the rapture was just around the corner. I've moved far _far_ beyond that. And I'd venture a guess that many of the kids in this audience have as well...
avedic Totally agree Hitchens was brilliant it’s a shame he was so wrong about Iraq and mainly only dealt with the low hanging fruit in theistic belief during his debates. I don’t agree with his approach to the philosophy of religion but I still really like him to be honest and find many of his observations hilarious. However, many eminent atheist philosophers such as Mary Midgeley, Massimo Piggliussi, Michael Ruse, Thomas Nagel and scientists such as Roger Penrose prefer to distance themselves from “New atheism” recognising it as a militant form of atheism that does more harm than good.?Hitchens early history including family and school life certainly shaped many of his ideas as he was clearly a man of many contradictions.. He actually formed a close friendship with the theist Larry Taunton whilst they were on a road trip together in America. Hitchens was fighting cancer at the time and was actually being treated by a cancer expert who was a Christian minister. Interestingly, when skimming through a copy of the Bible on the way to a debate Hitchens asked Larry why did Jesus weep at the death of his friend Lazarus? There was no doubt he knew Jesus was an historical character and whilst he railed against theists and the Bible on stage, he maintained meaningful though largely hidden from public view friendships with Christians who were prominent scientists such as Francis Collins and the author Larry Alex Taunton. He also showed a lot of respect and humility towards the Oxford professor John Lennox after admitting to losing to him in one particular debate. It’s clear that, whilst Hitchens showed little reverence for “faith” and “superstition” on the stage, he had a likeable and lovable personality behind the scenes. It seems that what Larry and Hitchens shared on the two long road trips they had together was a (faith) in friendship which is possibly why Hitchens was curious about Jesus reaction to Lazarus death. However, there is no powerful evidence of Hitchens having a death bed conversion as some dishonest “theists” may claim. Equally, Larry Taunton did not claim Hitchens had a deathbed conversion as some staunch and dishonest atheists who haven’t even read Larrys book insist he did. Maybe Larry should have called his book the “Friendship of Hitchens” rather than the “Faith of Hitchens” so as not to offend the “faith” of staunch atheists. But why would Larry do such a disingenuous thing when he believed that the concept of human friendship had clearly evolved into more than just some herd or survival instinct. “Friendship is unnecessary, like philosophy, like art.... It has no survival value; rather it is one of those things which give value to survival” (C.S. Lewis). Lewis was an atheist nearly half his life and carried around shrapnel in his body from WW2. Interestingly, Lewis was a genius and converted to Christianity due to the (friendship) and influence of friends such as J.R. Tolkien and also the literature of G.K. Chesterton and George McDonald. Similarly, this quote from Hitchens speaks volumes about Hitchens character, honesty and approach to friendship when he was not in his stage persona... “If everyone in the United States had the same qualities of loyalty and care and concern for others that Larry Taunton had, we'd be living in a much better society than we do” (Christopher Hitchens)
Every time I see a theist accusing atheists of attacking them, I think of this quote: “Religious apologists complain bitterly that Atheists and Secularists are aggressive and hostile in their criticism of them. I always say: look, when you guys were in charge, you didn’t argue with us, you just burnt us at the stake. Now what we’re doing is, we’re presenting you with some arguments and some challenging questions, and you complain.” - A.C. Grayling
@@luciennoxisou9502 are you that out of touch? or just too young to notice the shift? they run this very platform my guy 😂 we can barely have real discussion or debate on serious topics now due to people who think the solution to "bad ideas" isn't better ideas.. rather its just to ban the "bad ideas"
@@americannacho lol, huh - I’m probably older than you, but what context or platforms are you talking about wherein all this debate is not occurring ? Mainstream media ? Academia ? On the street ? Social media ?
Hats off to the audience, organizers and participants of debate! They differ in their opinions wildly but they were so nice in presenting their differences... hope that could be the case for the rest of the world one day!
In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 You are yapping nonsense. You have no evidence besides a self-contradictory, ancient, moronic book to back up your assertions. You are not intellectual, you are ideological.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Stop going to every Hitch video and commenting the same peculiar message. I’m sick of seeing it all over. If you keep it at home, we wouldn’t be having all these debates to begin with.
@@mjabdelrazzaq If I knew you were in the way of incoming traffic id pull you out of the way. Likewise, if you were in a burning building, I’d pull you out as well. What you don’t realise is your soul is on fire hence the preaching. The word of God is offensive to you right now but once you become a Christian you will realise the awesomeness of God and what love really is. Is it annoying if a doctor says you have cancer and shows you the cure?
@Charles George That seems like a very basic view, seeing that many atheists come from theistic backgrounds and claim to have felt the presence of god before
@Charles George what do you mean by both contain truth? and what experience did you have? No matter what it is, what do you think about all the people who had experiences of other religions? or stuff like aliens? how can your experience confirm there is a god when perception is flawed and the human mind is incredibly vulnerable to delusions?
@Charles George you said it brother! You can only understand through your own experience, and you existing is an experience whether you accept it or not and one that doesn’t lack intelligent design. No chicken before the egg 🖖🏼
@@NewtonVieira wrong. Faith is belief in something with no evidence to support it. Science doesn't claim anything to be absolute, simply the best case scenario. Religion is the one who makes absolute claims, with nothing to back it up. Not to mention the fact that the claims science makes are demonstrable and verifiable. Can't say the same about religion!😜
Hayden Hollingsworth I used to think the same also. I disagree with WLC views, however, in the realm of philosophy he is quite knowledgeable in particular with metaphysics/ ontology (the respect deserved is in the credentials). It’s nice to see how people actually think when they take on this kind of position to broaden our perspective, and of course the perspective of Hitchens also.
There is a difference between civility and respect. I doubt very much that Hitch respected that windbag of Craig. That guy is a moron, to put it mildly...
No cosmological would say the universe comes from "nothing" because nobody knows what was there "before " the big bang. All we know is that approx 13.7 billion years ago the universe was super hot and super dense and this was followed by a rapid expansion which we refer to as the big bang. Theists love the whole "something from nothing" card, but the philosopher's "nothing " is not the same as the cosmological nothing.
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
Indeed. "You think the universe came from nothing!" No, we don't. But you think someone spoke it into existance. From nothing. Projection. "You think you evolved from a rock!" No, we don't. Organic molecules are organic, not mineral. You on the other hand think we were made out of mud like a golem, then a rib.. Like a necromantic spell. Projection. "You stole the golden rule!" No, we didn't. That 'rule' has existed in cultures far detached and considerably older than Christianity. Projection. The list goes on and on. And then we have the opposite. "Science is bad!" "Science now proves god!" No, it isn't. And no, it doesn't. "War on Christmas!" The X in X-mas is the first letter of Jesus in.. Damnit, I can't remember the language right now. But that means Jesus. Besides, we all know Christmas is the result of a number of holy days of other cultures being apropriated because they couldn't be stamped out. "Halloween is Satan!" All Hallows Eve was the creation of the church. "The Big Bang is dumb!" Well, the name is, sure. Made up by a Catholic priest in an attempt to discredit the idea. And so on. I'm not going to claim there is no higher power, but I'm pretty confident it's not the one most often claimed. And no matter what this higher power might be, (if any), it really needs better arguments in it's favour. "Because I said so" doesn't cut it. And neither does "Might makes right", which is basically what they all boil down to right now.
@@sLazar5520 Jesus Christ has been seen resurrected by many hundreds of people (Josh McDowell wrote “Evidence That Demands A Verdict.” Lee Strobel wrote “The Case For Christ.” Both books help to settle the issue that Christ is alive). The early Christians would not have given their lives, suffering torture to death, without knowing that Jesus Christ had certainly risen. History confirms this through more documents, for example Tacitus: "Therefore, to squelch the rumor, Nero created scapegoats and subjected to the most refined tortures those whom the common people called “Christians.” [...]. Their names come from Christ, who, during the reign of Tiberius, had been executed by the procurator Pontius Pilate.” (Annals, pg. 89 of Meier’s English Translation)
Only Jesus Christ (the human form of Divinity) has said: *_"I am the way, the truth and the life."_* He also said: *_"The sky and the earth won't last forever, but my words will."_* Matthew 24, 35 _"Paul, an apostle-sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead [...] I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that _*_the gospel I preached is not of human origin._*_ I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."_
@@2633babe God did not have sex with Mary. She was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. And I'd be careful blaspheming the one true God in heaven. God is love but there is also the wrath of God.
Knowing now that Hitchens was diagnosed with cancer in 2010 and this was occurring in 09 I can't help but notice moments where he seems a bit out of it in body language and yet he still gives a well articulated and thought out debate. You will be greatly missed.
With all due respect I didn’t hear any compelling argument. He used to joke a lot to take the focus away from his poor arguments which is by itself a silent admission of a defeat
Hitchens explained to him like 10 times in different ways, why he doesn’t have to prove a non-existence, that the burden of proof is on the person who’s making the claim. Then every single time he went and repeated the same thing “We haven’t heard any good arguments of why Atheism is real!” It’s like what this person wrote in his book “Whenever you are presented with the contradictory evidence you should always choose your faith over that” is actually true. No matter what anyone says or what evidence you are presented with, all you gotta do is repeat the same nonsense as you always have...
Atheism is real whether they like it or not. "Atheism" is the rejection of any god of any kind. It's a belief and it exists, so therefore it is obviously real. He could replace the word "atheist" here with any other religion and make the same shitty argument lol, except that would equate to his religion as well so he can't he has to use Atheism because "atheists evil".
@@TmanT321 What do you mean by “atheism exists”? And how does that imply a burden of proof in any way? Seriously, it doesn’t logically follow. Look, atheism simply doesn’t mean “positive belief that no gods exist.” There is a smaller subset of atheism that does make that claim, but it’s just a subset. Craig knows this, and he even admits it when he accidentally slips up and says the phrase “also known as *positive* atheism”. He’s just playing word games to force Hitchens to accept a burden of proof that doesn’t really belong to him. And that whole idea is ridiculous in other ways. If we all start out as blank slates, without any real knowledge of the universe, then we don’t know about any gods, the entire concept of god is foreign to us. We start off just investigating the world and forming mental models to explain it. If we don’t start with knowledge of “deity” as a concept or category, then we simply don’t have any claims at all about deities. It’s only when a religious person *introduces a claim* about their god that we even begin to consider such a claim. And even then, we are not obligated to form a belief in one direction or the other. We can just accept “I don’t know” as a final answer on the matter. The challenge for theists is that they can’t say “I don’t know.” They can say something like “I can’t prove it,” which is a different thing, but the foundation of their worldview is that they DO know. They are asserting a truth claim about a deity that they have to go out of their way to describe and define, which further demonstrates that they are the ones introducing a claim to an otherwise claim-free context. If you really want to talk about other religions, then let’s go there. Does a Buddhist child raised in a remote Buddhist village have any idea what you mean by “god” when you ask her? Probably not. She hasn’t been introduced to the concept of “god”, and is content with a religious worldview that doesn’t require any notion of “god”. So she doesn’t have a claim for or against the existence of a god. If you explained what a “god” is to her, and told her you think your god exists, she might just shrug her shoulders and say, “Sure, I guess that is possible, but it really doesn’t affect my worldview in any way.” Or she might say, “That idea sounds silly, but you are welcome to demonstrate the truth of your claim. I don’t have a reason to believe it until you provide a lot more evidence.” The only reason it would ever make sense for atheists to bear the burden of proof is if we *assume a priori* that God exists, and that the evidence for God is shown to everyone everywhere, for all time. If that were the case, then sure, it would make sense for everyone to be expected to have some kind of opinion about it (although it’s still fair to say “I don’t know”). This is the presuppositionalist argument, and it’s inherently circular, since it presupposes God’s existence as a premise in an argument for God’s existence. And Craig is certainly not a presuppositionalist.
@@dupersuper1000 Yes, the entire thing. Please go back to your cult meetings and leave the smart people to move the world forward. The burden of proof lies with you, because you claim something exists. If you accuse someone of a crime, the burden of proof falls on you to give evidence for that crime. The person being accused does not have to prove something that did not happen. That's why we have the fifth amendment. The same logic follows with god. You claim the bible it true, therefore you must provide outside evidence, but you cannot. You are a sentient lugnut.
In brief, the Creator of this world (God/Divinity) exists because this reality, with us into it, is not the result of nothing, or the result of no intelligence, because *from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes.* That is why atheists renounce to elementary logic and to simple rationality intentionally when they believe that this reality has always existed without any intelligence involved. *God is not bounded by what He has created,* but atheists, in their superficiality, do not want to recognize their limitations. For example, science will never be able to really know, at least, what a photon is (the magnification process being infinite). Regarding the Creator of this reality (the nature of God etc.), our power of comprehension will always be like how much the cups can think to understand the man who made them (comparison mentioned in the Bible), but *we have Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity, to be able to see God and what He expects from us.* Therefore, those wise enough understand that *God is not bounded by time (not being bounded by what He has created), respectively He is eternal, always existed, which means that He was not created,* but atheists ignore, also, the other fact already mentioned by me about the nature of God that *our power of comprehension will always be like how much the cups can think to understand the man who made them". Anyway, they have no excuse because we have Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity, to be able to understand.*
All animals in Gen 1:20-26 took their evolutionary descent form a single "kind"- Darwin got evolution form his Greek Bible - Genom meaning kind . This video explains it objectively - th-cam.com/video/dDN-4faodpY/w-d-xo.html
@@TheWisdomRoom kind, is a nebulous, illdefined, meaningless unscientific term. hovind uses. kent hovind ...? you know ? unqualified renowned creationist moron. kind, as a means to differentiate species is useless. ask some bona fide evolutionary biologists why its bogus. then you will learn something. so you are a biblical evolutionist. lol do we assume you believe noah ? lol an imaginary friend and an imaginary flood?. lol
@@TheWisdomRoom Youre tripping we all know that no gods exist, living or dead. Anyone that says that they live by the bible is a complete and total liar.
An atheist can have charisma but since they are not selling snake oil, it is not a requirement. I still miss Mr Hitchens he was a great writer and thinker
The only argument God believers have when they're told God is fake: " BuT HoW CaN SoMeThiNG CoMe OuT Of NoThiNg" Like bro your brain is too small just because we don't know how universe was made doesn't mean a sky daddy made it
@@justsomeguy4260 There's the issue right there, you just said it. "Sky Daddy". What? What is that? I don't believe in that, I never have. I believe in God. What is a sky daddy? You're making an argument with a false dichotomy.
@@onlyme2579 he's just paraphrasing though, you can replace sky daddy with whatever God or deity and it'll be the same. There is no single good reason to believe that there is any sort of God, until proven otherwise. Which hasn't happened so far.
@@stztstz1018 The same goes for the Theist listening to the arguments of an atheist. There's no evidence for me to believe your position. I will also point out, paraphrasing an incorrect perception, is still incorrect.
In Craig’s opening remarks, he starts out saying that the debate is about the existence of god, not about the social impact of religion. Then he goes on to talk about the impact of religion on the morality for society. Not a great start when you begin by contradicting your own argument…
It is entirely in keeping with Craig's general obliviousness in cognition that he cannot ascertain his own argument, which he plainly doesn't deem necessary. Craig is only interested in chewing the cud of his cowlike complacent assumption that he has already won, and that Hitchens is merely blabbing about inconsequential nonsense. WLC is almost sociopath level of cognitive inability.
I don't see how Craig contradicted himself there. All he said was that religion's impact on society was not the *topic* of the debate; he never stated that it was *irrelevant* to the topic of the debate.
@@ob4161 There is no point upon which Craig is NOT irrelevant. He addresses NONE of the actual arguments presented by Hitchens. Namely, that Hitchens emphasizes that Craig has no evidence to support any of his supernatural claims, no person has. Craig speaks from the point of view that he Pre-Supposes the Existence of "God", this is both irrelevant and non evidentiary and has no value. It is an unfalsifiable claim, therefore irrelevant to the business of providing what Craig claims is "properly basic".
Where does he do that aside from the Q&A? He was discussing objective moral values as a proof of God existence which is completely different. Get your facts straight
The strategy Craig is using here is to speak a group of non sequitur logic in such a rapid succession that you cannot stop to think. As a result, you get his original presupposition, then lots of rapid word salad and then you're expected to believe that his conclusion follows from logical thinking. If you pause after every step in his thought process, you'll soon find that there's no logic but a lot of non sequitur skips instead. I detest using such strategy in this age-old debate form because there's no time to dismantle the gaps in his logic given the short amount of time and rigid form of the debate.
Yeah Craig is dismissing all arguments to contrary and has the hands down dumbest arguments I have every heard and I have a degree in religious studies. Just a mind numblinly stupid performance.
@@MikkoRantalainen In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Did you notice that you are just referring to text in man-made book called the Bible? Do you have any *real evidence* that the supernatural stories in that book have any relation to reality? (And before you say that it has *some parts* that match with reality, I'll say that e.g. Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code also has about 90% of the whole book describing things that perfectly match the reality but that doesn't make the whole book true story.)
Left Alone Talking Except for the fact that Hitchens completely dodges the question of whether he is an atheist or not. Throughout the entire debate he argues in a completely agnostic way as opposed to addressing Craig’s arguments. It’s easy to pick out catchy quotes like that one, but Hitchens was outclassed here.
@@Gustavo-so7zk Hitchens does not dodge the question of whether he's an atheist. He's tackles it head on and, most importantly, explains what he means by atheist. Craig, on the other hand, is just playing games.
Appolo Hitchens thinks atheism is agnosticism, and it seems like you do too. The way these debates are structured the burden of proof is also on the atheist to prove the natural universe is better explained without a God, or to disprove God.
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Sins are sins exclusively because God says they are and sins, and the Bible totally changes what sins are between the old/new testament. God is so perfect he can't even talk to his sinner creations, so he is going send his son to kill himself for us instead.🤣🤣🤣 Explain why god can't reveal his existence. The Bible says you can't know God, yet your punished eternally for not fearing and loving God. Again, explain why God wants humans to blindly believe.
What he meant was that since infinity of time mark the beggining is impossible hence there is an God who power is infinite created and started everything marked the beggining of time.
It's because Hitchens didn't actually address any of the arguments for God nor addressed any of the problems atheists have with saying there is no God. So he just stated that fact repeatedly. Hitchens just went directly to scare-crowing Christians and Christianity and kept going that way. Just because people have a British accent doesn't make them smart.
@@standard-user-name "Just because people have a British accent doesn't make them smart." LMAO. DINESH D'SOUZA is that you? LMAO Low-bar Bill could not show nay evidence of god. Can you? LMAO
Gerry Rice People are allowed to argue about existence of covid. There just aren’t many who do because there is overwhelming evidence indicating the pandemic is occurring.
The Executive Committee’s Board of Trustees asked Falwell to go on indefinite leave of absence on August 7, to which he agreed. Since that time, additional matters came to light that made it clear that it would not be in the best interest of the University for him to return from leave and serve as President. The Executive Committee met this morning and a conference call gathering of the full Board was planned for tomorrow. Falwell responded by agreeing to resign immediately as President of Liberty University today but then instructed his attorneys to not tender the letter for immediate resignation. The Executive Committee will go forward with its meeting in the morning followed by the full Board. Acting President Jerry Prevo said, “I call upon the University community and supporters to be in prayer for the University and for all its leadership, past, present and future, as we walk with the Lord through this stormy time of transition.”
@@Honestandtruth007 That really is the question isn't it? Sociologically speaking, good is that which benefits the community as a whole. In Dungeons and Dragons, good is what provides the mot benefit to the party. In Religion, good is whatever some man says some old book says will make his god happy. In Politics, good is whatever gets you reelected. In most cases, BAD is what benefits the individual at the expense of the community. (in narcissistic schema like politics and religion, bad is that which benefits SOMEONE ELSE)
Everyone believes their own behavior to be “good.” Even Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Bin Laden, etc believed that they were doing good. Since they all chose what they believed to be “good” behavior, would you say their actions were moral?
@@EvanBartholomew To them, obviously. However, they would be wrong because Morals are determined by society. They are culturally constructed. You are using the word "good" in a perfectly meaningless way.
It’s a shame their speaking professor is such a charlatan. This debate was nonsensical. Just like all Christian talking points. Religion really needs to understand the works are metaphorical. Clearly evolution takes place. Clearly there is no God that interacts with us. There is no proof for it at all.
People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.
Only the evil=stupid people can think that, I quote: “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” because *each sin is causing harm (useless suffering) to others and/or to ourselves,* departing us from Divinity, from perfection. That is why we always have to strive to *_"Be perfect therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect"_* Matthew 5, 48 as Jesus Christ has said. Unfortunately, too many people have refused over history, and too many still refuse nowadays, to follow this.
@@filmeseverinbut also we shouldn’t have the hubris to judge others on their morality because “For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God's glorious standard.” -Romans 3:23. You think you know god. I think I have a moral personal code. I see many Christians cheer on Israel’s attacks on Gaza; attacks that kill more women and children than combatants. I thought killing children was a moral atrocity that we could all agree is wrong. I don’t judge all Christians based on the ones who overlook today’s atrocities but I think Christians should think twice before judging atheists morals.
*All evil has been done because of stupidity and the main/worst stupidity has always been to not listen by God/Jesus.* In particular, for mankind, if ALL people (over history and nowadays) would have followed the main commandment from Jesus Christ, *besides to love / respect our Heavenly Father, to love / respect (care for) the other humans as we love / respect (care for) ourselves,* all the crimes and the tremendous useless suffering would have never happen. Without *true belief* in God/Jesus, the following evil facts have happened, are happening and will happen, unfortunately: - so many millions of people killed in wars and not only (following the killing of billions in the Third World War); - so many trillions of dollars, euros, etc. wasted on nuclear, chemical, biological and conventional weapons, on armies, etc. only for killing and destruction... not used for: free better education for ALL, suitable jobs for ALL (without exploitation / slavery), healthier food for ALL, renewable energy, science, eradication of all diseases, better housing (resistant to earthquakes...), financing of useful inventions, recycling, reforestation etc. - sadism, violence, dishonesty, vices, envy ... stupidity in general. We should never fight against each other but only against our lack of useful knowledge / wisdom (for decreasing our ignorance), while loving / respecting each other as we love / respect ourselves, these being the main requests of God/Jesus. Therefore, both science and proper education are very important to understand God's creation and what is better, regarding the human behavior, so that ALL of us can be not only happier in our ephemera life into this world (while we are still alive here) but also deserving, or at least allowable, for perpetual life in Heaven (after leaving this world).
Things in this video, not possible to see in 2023: 1 - Everyone respect eachothers ideas without need to bully one another 2 - Get straight answers like yes or no 3 - putting some jokes on serious conversations actual releaf tension 4 - The audience are in fact listning two diferents ideas and reflecting on them, no matter wish side they are from 5 - The audience also respect silence 6 - conversations with more then 20 words and without "like", hum"or "so" put after every 2 or 3 words
@KWH616 I don't think that is a fair assessment. *He does concede on certain points. He is arguing for a personal God as manifested in the image of Christ. He is very clear on that. He does put it on Hitchens on the objectivity of morality, something that Hitchens is unable to address with his worldview. This was a good debate but there's better.
Also the Gentlemen who did not believe there is a God I under stand his point,and he had a Good one, the christian/believers never proven that there is a God If there is a God why the world is such a terrsble place, and he is 100% right The problem we never start of wright,and no one question our direction,becsuse your Bible says be afraid and Never question God Thats our down foll
@@ivanferguson1574 yes, I was honestly surprised Hitchens never mentions the burden of proof being on a person who claims a thing to be true. In this case, the claim is that God exists, the claim is not made that God does not exist. Also Craig never provides any proof despite claiming to do so. His reasoning is entirely circular, ultimately always coming back to the necessity of faith and was also built around making an equal comparison of belief and non belief. I mean if I told you a dragon was circling Venus, you should ask me to prove it. And if I instead told you to prove me wrong, that would be an absurd request. Such is the request of Craig given to Hitchens. To not believe in a dragon circling Venus is not the same as saying "I know for certain that there is not a dragon circling Venus". And this was the distinction Hitchens made many times about Atheism being non-belief, and not a mindset of certainty God is not real. It is a mindset of thinking God is almost certainly not real, just like many other things are almost certainly unreal, like Unicorns, Dragons, Fairies, ghosts, ext.
Freedom (respectively what we are doing with it; to not do evil, to not cause useless suffering...) is the most important thing for the Creator, because He is not a dictator, but the opposite. He has given us 100% freedom to choose: or to follow just our instincts (altered through the DNA changes done by the fallen angels), being stupid=evil because of the bad addictions etc. (as Satan wants to gain our immortal spirits in Hell), or to strive always to do good in any situation, to not cause useless suffering, to keep us as holly as we can by following His wisdom, received through the true prophets and mainly through Jesus Christ (the human form of Divinity), then perpetuated over generations through proper education from thousands of years ago. Humans did not create this reality (this planet, this Universe...), we are just guests here. Our short lives here are mainly a kind of school for our immortal spirit. We have to do our best to sin no more, to never cause useless suffering to others and to ourselves, in order to "pass the final exam", to deserve Heaven. *_"Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."_*
@“Jianni Rivas“ Try to read entirely and carefully ALL my messages posted on this video, if you are really interested about the truth. Here, in this earthly life, God has offered us 100% freedom but He has told us to not use it as a cover-up for evil. Unfortunately, as the fallen angels did/do, many stupid=evil humans don't do God's will. However, all will be judged 100% correctly to receive what we deserve according with how much good and how much evil we have done while living in the body, after God/Jesus will forgive what can be forgiven.
@@filmeseverin Freedom to make someone else's choice, on pain of never-ending torture. Religion takes away reason, logic and humanity and you're a great example.
@@stuartmiller7419 The Creator of this reality has told us: _"Woe to those who call good evil and evil good"_ Jesus Christ (the human form of Divinity) has advised humans to love (respect / care for) each other, as they love (respect / care for) themselves. Therefore, without true belief in God/Jesus, the following evil facts have happened, are happening and will happen: - so many millions of people killed in wars and not only (following the killing of billions in the Third World War); - the billions of poor people at the limit of subsistence versus the wealthiest (multi-billionaires in dollars, euros, etc. with the vices of money / fortune) and those millions too rich people (also with the vice of money / wealth), owning together so many trillions of dollars, euro ... undeserved money, of course, wasted on unnecessary luxury and / or just kept through banks, instead of being used for: free better education for ALL, suitable jobs for ALL (without exploitation / slavery), healthier food for ALL, renewable energy, science, eradication of all diseases, financing of useful inventions, recycling, etc. - so many trillions of dollars, euros, etc. wasted on nuclear, chemical, biological and conventional weapons, on armies, etc. only for killing and destruction; - sadism, violence, dishonesty, vices, envy ... stupidity in general.
@@jerodfarmer165 Hey man i'm really trying but it just doesn't make sense. BTW does god command you to insult and try to belittle people on the internet? Seems like a terrible way to spread the good word. Or maybe it's just more proof he doesn't exist. Also it's you're*
So when the Christian guy talks about how highly improbable everything is to evolve this way and uses a bunch of massive numbers of improbability he's still saying there is that one chance and when you compare how big space is in every direction to at least what we can comprehend with our mind then we are that one and all those other failed ones. So basically saying it's extremely improbable is just saying that it is probable. Based on the vastness of space saying that is basically saying it's 100% probable out of just a huge huge huge amount of choices. Kind of how winning the Powerball is super improbable but someone does because that many people are trying. Just like that except on a grand scale. Hence the fact that all those other situations are just. It's just that in our little amount of time to evolve and to get smart we feel as if that is a long time based on our perception of time. Really if the first did evolve for billions of years and we evolved for Millions that would still be a short amount of time compared to greater things kind of how a piece of sand is huge to ants but tiny to a mountain time is just relative. We are way too smart for this amount of time we've developed thinking it's been a long time and that we are so important. There could be other intelligent creatures that have come and gone not only here but elsewhere and will continue to do so. Us not understanding things leads us to mystical ideas kind of how lightning and thunder probably used to seem like more than just atmosphere weather that we Now understand I think people just don't like to look at it this way because it makes our life seem meaningless but if you can get over that and learn to just enjoy it while treating others good and maybe having kids and teaching them the same and that's okay. Seems like Wars aren't fought over not believing a mystical belief. So yeah once again Christian apologetics saying it would be one out of one with however many thousands of zeros following it for this to happen natural just remember there is one with that many thousands of zeros out there of planets and stars here we are the one
@ronaldrrootiii6040 I'd disagree over the evolutionary time scales you imply. We evolved over approximately 4 billion years rather than millions of years because we are the product of all life that existed from day 1. Contrary to this evolution has no end product so when our star reaches its ability to fry this planet it most certainly won't ve human eyes that witness it it.
I’m proud to be an ex-Muslim although nobody around me knows and I’ve hidden it as to not get punished of course, I’m glad I could watch this debate, there have been others like Christoper hitches that have helped me realize what it means to think freely without the thought of receiving divine punishment for thinking this way, my mind and thoughts have become more well receiving of new ideas and logical thinking, it really does feel weird in a good way and I’m truly thankful. 😊😊
Anyway, people should know that not the labels that people put one another are important for the Creator of this reality (such as: Atheist, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu...) but *our deeds* instead, how we use the freedom He has offered, our free will, to strive always to do only good, to never cause useless suffering (any damage) to others and to ourselves. *_"For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorance of foolish men. Live in freedom, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God."_* 1 Peter 2,15 - 16 That is why we have to be servants/lovers of perfection (100% goodness, wisdom, justice...). As Jesus Christ has said: "Be perfect therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect" Matthew 5, 48 *_"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"_* Matthew 7, 21-23
After a finite number of years we all will leave this world and will receive what we deserve. According to the following two testimonies (and many hundreds more available online; even I had a true NDE) all evil we do, which cannot be forgiven by Divinity, is sending us to hell, instead of Heaven: "Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life - Pt 1"; "Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life - Pt 2"; "Man Sees Unthinkable Horrors in Hell - Christians Being Tortured! (Mario Martinez)". Therefore, the believing of the truth revealed by God/Jesus will help / convince / determine... us to always strive to do only good for the rest of our earthly life (and to always regret deeply our bad deeds, to sin no more), to be easier for us at the Judgment, to go into Heaven before many others, to never taste hell, to be more loved by Divinity, but *ALL humans will be judged for their deeds* (as seen into those videos mentioned). *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 I wish only well to everyone and as much wisdom as possible for everyone! To be saved!
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@snonegoodbutgodjohn363 God is perfect in everything and you should understand that many people have never done many of the sins you use to mention into your messages. God knows exactly each human's sins and what can be forgiven for each of us, indeed, through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. In order to understand one of the most important aspects of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ (the human form of Divinity), anyone can read the following parable: A very straight emperor has lost a battle because of a traitor. That traitor was proved to be even his mother, who was the being he loved the most. Known for his honesty and fairness, the king had to judge and punish his mother in the same way as on any other person, and the punishment for high treason consisted of 100 lashes. When soldiers went to his mother to take her to apply the punishment, the king came down from the throne and placed himself in his mother's place, suffering all the 100 lashes. Thus, in the sacrifice of Jesus, God is that righteous king, He, descended from the throne to bear the punishment, is Jesus, the traitor who had to be punished being us, humans. Sacrifice is the only way for perfection to turn the ignorant ones from their using of freedom for evil intentionally, because only dictators use force, but Divinity is the opposite of a dictator. After a finite number of years we all will leave this world and will receive what we deserve. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 According to the following two testimonies (and many hundreds more available online; even I had a true NDE) all evil we do, which cannot be forgiven by Divinity, is sending us to hell, instead of Heaven: "Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life - Pt 1"; "Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life - Pt 2"; "Man Sees Unthinkable Horrors in Hell - Christians Being Tortured! (Mario Martinez)". Therefore, the believing of the truth revealed by God/Jesus will help / convince / determine... us to always strive to do only good for the rest of our earthly life (and to always regret deeply our bad deeds, to sin no more), to be easier for us at the Judgment, to go into Heaven before many others, to never taste hell, to be more loved by Divinity, but *ALL humans will be judged for their deeds* (as seen into those videos mentioned). I wish only well to everyone and as much wisdom as possible for everyone! To be saved!
55:28 Geez, I'm watching this on a mobile in vertical mode, and just realized that the podium nicely lines up with the time slider and makes it look like there's a thousand of ads on the video
Regarding the superficial ones, the unbelievers of the truth about/from God/Jesus, the most important truth, only those too deceived will not sort the comments to read *entirely and carefully* all my demonstrations (which prove their errors) just to keep their deceiving. Furthermore, only those who renounce intentionally to elementary logic cannot understand my simple, clear and undeniable demonstrations.
@@filmeseverin Christianity is fake. It stole pretty much everything from other earlier religions and the same way Islam did with small modifications. The is no evidence of a global flood, there is no evidence that jesus as the son of god or Moses ever existed, and the resurrection was stolen from Julius Caesar's resurrection. No resurrection. Snakes and donkeys do not talk. Genesis is full of contradictions. Earth is not 6000 years old. ALL THOSE ARE LIES. People now know and leaving the religion for what it is CULT.
We are lucky to live in this age where debates et al can be recorded for us to view & re view at our leisure .All though I had never met C.Hitchens in life ,I do how ever miss him being on Earth in person, RIP
Leonardo's Truth ah, a judgemental Christian. Pretty typical really, Jesus orders don’t apply to you do they? Prepare to spend an eternity gnashing your teeth.
@Leonardo's Truth I think belief in Hell proves Christians are maroons. On the one hand, they are condemning the atrocities of dictators, on the other, they are calling a being -good God, who tortures sentient beings for all eternity.
@@BigVK19 one thing. Not interjecting my opinion, but hell is simply a place without God, therefore without good. However, even saying that God tortured humans is still not good not only because of the power of Him but also the lack of an objective independent standard.
If you agree with Hitchens' worldview then he's not resting anywhere, he just "isn't" (period, full stop) anymore. So why do you hope he rests in any fashion, which assumes he still has consciousness in some way?
Calling God of the gaps on metaphysics makes no sense. WLC made a perfectly logical argument that you should go with the best supported hypothesis until another better one takes its place, so unless you deny science on the grounds that we might find even better answers later, then you don’t have a point. Also, Craig legit said absence of ev isn’t ev of absence, so I’m sure he’s well aware
@@whatsinaname691 the problem with that supported hypothesis is that, in essence, it doesn't differ from any other religion in the world, I mean, anyone can say for instance say "here is the book of Michael, Michael says the world was created by him, Michael exists, thus it is the best explanation and we should go with it". Having an "argument" or as you said "hypothesis" is simply not enough, specially when such arguments makes such presumptions claims with so little evidence, Hitchens said something along the lines in the beginning. Also, there's really no pressure at all to choose a religion when in fact we don't know the facts, that's actually rushed acting
“We’re a Christian establishment and wanted to debate whether it’s reasonable to believe in god.” If nothing else, I respect you for inviting the equivalent of an atheist howitzer against your standard issue rifle apologist. Shows some real balls
@@sak415 Craig didn't make any arguments, he made unsubstantiated claims. Hitchens can't refute an un-refutable claim. If I told you I had an invisible $2 bill in my pocket and told you to refute it, you'd never be able to. I could just say that $2 bills exist, while true, does nothing to substantiate the claim that a piece of money can be invisible.
@@less2worryabout the cosmological argument for instance. To refute it you need to show that one of the premises is wrong. Or that the conclusion does not logically follow from the premises. An emotional response wont do.
Atheists should have realized at least that the perfection of mathematics, which is the "language" used to "write" this reality (every shape in this 3D space/world having a corresponding equation that generates it) is one of the main proofs of the perfect Intelligence who has created everything, called God/Divinity. Generally, those from such videos, exposed to my clear and undeniable demonstrations but who still want to remain atheists, are ignoring intentionally the simple fact that *from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes,* hoping that this reality is the result of no intelligence, in other words that God does not exist, only to escape the responsibility for their deeds, to not be Judged by God/Jesus after the leaving of this world, but they are in error. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 My simple and undeniable demonstrations can be found quite easily after sorting the comments, for example (at least), my thread posted few minutes ago, starting with "In brief...".
@@filmeseverin Atheists realised you have no brain left in your head. There is no evidence of global flood, there is no evidence of any resurrections, no zombies either. Earth is not 6000 years old. Earth does not have a dome above it. Bible is full of magical things.
Only those too deceived will not sort the comments to read *entirely and carefully* all my demonstrations (which prove their errors) just to keep their deceiving. Furthermore, only those who renounce intentionally to elementary logic cannot understand my simple, clear and undeniable demonstrations.
If only our presidential debates could be like this. Super organized, well planned, mutual respect to both sides and both sides bringing excellent points to the audience for them to make their own decisions. Very well done.
@@CosmoPhiloPharmaco Not so fast Doctor Schrodinger, Hitchens brought the only indisputable fact to the debate - 99% of all species have gone extinct. A contradiction of Genesis and therefore a contradiction of omnipotent and omniscient creation. Genesis isn't just pre-scientific ignorance it's legitimate reality to a fundamentalist, which btw Craig is not. Craig is trying to circumvent biblical dogma and suggest (with misquotes and misuse of scientific data) that a good god is consistent with imperfection. Craig's view on the problem of evil is borderline morally corrupt.
As there are billions of cells required for us to be able to live this earthly life, in the same way there are required billions of galaxies for the intelligent life to be created intentionally to have 100% freedom, like humans on Earth (think how wonderful the Creator is, the opposite of a dictator, to create this reality in this way, with 100% freedom). He has told us to live in freedom but to not use freedom as a cover-up for evil. Unfortunately, Satan, the fallen angels, respectively their tools in this reality - the evil=stupid humans - have used (are using) the freedom offered by God to do evil. Most atheists do not know *the Parable of the weeds,* which implies that the fallen angels, ruled by Satan, have altered this world, the DNA... (even the Bible),... making the carnivores, the parasites, the viruses, bad bacteria etc.... all the havoc... all the killings, so that those who do not want to follow God's perfection into their life, to be able to make excuses to not believe the truth. Initially, all insects, animals etc. were feeding only with plants (plants products, such as fruits, nectar, seeds etc.).
@@filmeseverin Exactly as I said in my previous message, the "filmeseverin" user is repeatedly doing the same thing: He is spreading lies about me and trolling the same debunked cut and pastes of lies. Regardless of the continuous lying and false accusations, from such deniers who have no argument to support their denial, the truth is only one: filmeseverin is a lying troll. To the readers you will notice how his broken English comes and goes. You will also notice he pretends to be from a European communist country yet posts on an east coast of America schedule. You will also notice that he responds to his own comment and even edits his cut and pastes and changes nothing. He does this so no notification shows up to who he is responding to. You will also notice that this Liar will post multiple posts to get the comment count to end in a 5 or 0 like lying trolls do. This Liar also likes his own comments like a troll. Every thing about this Liar is fake. There is no need to post any more arguments against his lies because it has been done over and over and he just ignores them and posts one of these cut and pastes. The only thing left to do is ask why. So here it is for the more than the hundredth time. Why do you keep posting these lies?
It was over before it started Hitchens . Said in the first few minutes God there every where. He is a believer I noticed he brought his Ray Comfort bananas for Dessert.
Craig's "moral argument" is hoplessly circular. It's his least serious argument (with the exception of his "Holy Spirit" argument which, he concedes, isn't an argument at all``). According to Craig, we can know that God exists because objective morals exist. Seriously? And how do we know obejctive morality exists? More precisely, what makes morality objective? Well....because it comes from God. And around we go!
Not fully true. My college just had one of these not too long ago on creationism vs evolution. Saying these debates don’t happen is just simply not true.
We need more discourse like this. Two perfect gentlemen, diametrically opposed to one another in perspective, having an emotionless, rational discussion. Where do we see this anymore in modern American culture?
Do you think that civility happened here. It is certaiunly true that few fucks were uttered, but I am contunually astounded by WLC's dishonest debate tactics.
@@itsjustameme I think they are only dishonest in that he well knows they are tactics and not valid points. So, yes,. Unfortunately, they are as you say, he used tactics. What was really interesting to me was observing by his varied applause lines, how indoctrinated that portion of the audience already is. I've almost given up wasting my time on debates in this field and just go straight to the words of the master speaker, Mr. Hitchens directly. It is much more illuminating as I cannot debate WLC myself.
@@govindagovindaji4662 I have watched enough debates with him to think I could wipe the floor with him given that he usually follows more or less the same script every time. With a bit of preperation I believe I could make some ore written statements and responses that would seriously throw him off his script. BTW - if you think he is bad here you should see how he treats people on the internet when he choose to engage them. When he know that most of his followers are only going to be reading his side of the exchange he goes completely overboard with misrepressenting his opponents. TH-camr TheoreticalBullshit had an epic exchange with him where he was repeatedly beaten but went out of his way to pretend this was not so.
It was an honor and a privilege to see Hitchens debate when he was alive. Now, thank that heavenly teapot that Bertrand Russell invented that I have these videos to watch over and over. Also, thank you Mr. Richard Dawkins for keeping me sane surrounded by all these theists. It's a madhouse out here!!!
You just need to sort the comments and read for real as many of my messages as you can (at least the recent ones, posted over the last few days), to not be in error anymore.
@@filmeseverin "You just need to sort the comments and read for real > We know, Freshy., you are as dumbdumb as a rock. Why did your god commit many genocides? Why did your god command Moses and David to commit genocides? Will you kill your own child when your god asks? Why do you worship this moral monster?
@@filmeseverin Nobody cares about your delusional message. Why does your religion hate everyone who does not subscribe to your ideology? Will you kill your own child when your god asks?
@@filmeseverin In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY
_1:18:58__ "We now enter the period of cross examination, which ... allows the questioner to pose, and the answerer only to answer and not repeat the question or to dodge."_ If only all TV interviews would adhere to this basic format.
In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.
I just looked up Christopher Hitchens as I’ve never heard of him prior to watching this debate and see that he passed away not too long after this. RIP, a great intellectual gone from this world
@Andrew. Yes, it's sad that he's gone but he was not an intellectual at all, throughout his life he's been living subjectively to his own opinions and theories rather than living objectively to crucial facts. He will use his own beliefs to deceive other people from the Truth of God and at the end of his deathbed, he still didn't repent for the sins that he has committed. Yes, it's sad that he passed away but it's even more sad now that he's facing the Judgment of God with unrepented sin. All we can do now is Pray for his family that they may change their immoral ways and submit themselves to the Lord.
@@donthesitatebegin9283 No. But The Holy Father does punish those who commits crime and doesn't do anything to change their ways. Especially those who knows that they are in the wrong but continues to do wicked actions everyday becuase of the ludicrous belief that we literally came out of magical dust from nowhere and therefore we should have no consequences for our wrongdoings becuase it's in our nature.
Why am I capable of listening to Hitchens argument better than Craig? Honestly, it's as if he isn't listening at all and just keeps repeating the same statements over and over.
Craig is trained in classical debate, and is following the rules and strictures of formal debate. He makes points, and when they are not refuted, he remakes them. Hitchins is remarkably intelligent and makes something interesting points. However, he is not following the normal rules/order of debate. In "scoring" this as a debate, Dr. Craig wins. However, Hitchins makes some very interesting points.
@Breakin-Bad I do have an opinion on the matter. Which you can call bias if you will. But I was really trying to speak objectively in terms of debate. I've scored a bunch of them as a judge, and I participated in some as well. In fact, I participated in the Illinois State Debate Tournament, just like Dr. Craig (he won, but I did get a top 10). And those debate tournaments were all cross-x, where you had to switch sides every single round (for and against). So I do think I am capable of a somewhat objective analysis of a debate regardless of personal predilection. Mr. Hitchins is incredibly clever. I don't think he was trying to "win a debate", as much as trying to convince people that it was reasonably rationale and OK to embrace his position. Mission accomplished. Dr. Craig was trying to convince as well, but he functioned much more within the constructs of formal debate rules. And that is why I thought he "won", not because I may agree with his position. The only reason I even commented was because several folks criticized Dr. Craig for re-iterating points previously made. That is what you do in a debate. He would be awarded for that with an impartial debate judge, not criticized.
Guilty as charged. My apologies to the late Mr. Hitchens and his family. I work with a Mr. Hitchings every day, and made a typo. Nothing else I can add in light of the thoroughly reasoned arguments presented by yourself and Mr. Bad. Have a good evening (or morning).
If someone doesn't refute your argument, and you expected to be answering refutations, might as well repeat them in case the idiot forgot them and thats why he didn't respond to them the last time.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"- Epicurus
Here is not Heaven. This short earthly life is a school and exam for our immortal souls (us), for those who did not listen by the Creator to understand the value of "light" without experiencing the "darkness". This reality has been created intentionally so that freedom to be 100% offered, God rewarding accordingly the free choices/deeds *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 The problem is with those who have used (are using) their freedom for doing evil on purpose. That is why it is not easy to fight continuously with what Satan has done to this world (carnivores, parasites, viruses, bad bacteria... the so called _"weeds"_ in Matthew 13:24-43) and to ourselves ... because *until our physical death we fight with the works of the fallen angels and of their tools, the evil=stupid people, the consequences of evilness = stupidity.*
@@Tarphir Epicurus's statement is extremely strong, reasonable, realistic, and (overall) straight forward. I mean... Only if you're a fool, who enjoys listening and believing in things that are unreasonable, unrealistic, and (overall) that doesn't make no sense. No thanks! I'll listen and believe in wise people like Epicurus and other philosophers. Than to be a fool for the rest of my life. For example, here's another strong, reasonable, realistic, and wise quote: "God is all-powerful. God is perfectly good. Evil exists. If God exists, there would be no evil. Therefore God does not exist."- Epicurus So true! Yet... A fool would still disagree. CLEARLY! There are strong facts (every where---billions and billions of years worth) of: war, slavery, greed, death, crime, terrorism, destruction, pollution, poverty, hunger, misery, rape, sicknesses, and sacrifices, etc. Yup! I ain't no fool! I see clearly! And still yet... People still be saying "god's all loving", "god's all good", "god's all perfect", "god's all-powerful", etc. First of all, a loving, good, perfect, and all-powerful "god", wouldn't have made EVIL in the first place. That's why I strongly agree with, Epicurus. However, I forgot... Only a fool would disagree. No thanks! I stand with philosophers, who are reasonable, realistic, wise, and (overall) make sense. Oh yeah... We can't forget. And even after this loving, good, perfect, and all-powerful "god" messes up and makes "sin". Its only (DISGUSTING) solution is to send down a person down from the sky. Have that person be born. And then, later on in life, be sacrificed? Just to "save" the souls of humanity on earth. So that humanity can be given a chance, after they've die, to enter a heavenly place. That's just WEIRD!! In conclusion, I will continue to believe in my own belief that involves the Universe, Earth, Nature, Humanity, and Myself. No superstitions. Only stuff that can be proven. And just having good morals, learning from good people and everything that's around me, working hard with good intentions, giving a helping hand when it's needed, and (overall) doing my absolute BEST! And not doing it because of some bible or some fake superstition(s).
*All evil has been done because of stupidity and the main/worst stupidity has always been to not listen by God/Jesus.* In particular, for mankind, if ALL people (over history and nowadays) would have followed the main commandment from Jesus Christ, *besides to love / respect our Heavenly Father, to love / respect (care for) the other humans as we love / respect (care for) ourselves,* all the crimes and the tremendous useless suffering would have never happen. Without *true belief* in God/Jesus, the following evil facts have happened, are happening and will happen, unfortunately: - so many millions of people killed in wars and not only (following the killing of billions in the Third World War); - so many trillions of dollars, euros, etc. wasted on nuclear, chemical, biological and conventional weapons, on armies, etc. only for killing and destruction... not used for: free better education for ALL, suitable jobs for ALL (without exploitation / slavery), healthier food for ALL, renewable energy, science, eradication of all diseases, better housing (resistant to earthquakes...), financing of useful inventions, recycling, reforestation etc. - sadism, violence, dishonesty, vices, envy ... stupidity in general. We should never fight against each other but only against our lack of useful knowledge / wisdom (for decreasing our ignorance), while loving / respecting each other as we love / respect ourselves, these being the main requests of God/Jesus. Therefore, both true/useful science and proper education are very important to understand God's creation and what is better, regarding the human behavior, so that ALL of us can be not only happier in our ephemera life into this world (while we are still alive here) but also deserving, or at least allowable, for perpetual life in Heaven (after leaving this world).
@@sumatra_7174 Jesus loves Christopher more than he loves us and he is not being tormented anywhere if you claim to be person of God your consciousness wont go out of its way to constantley conceptualize misery but it will instead create and propose mercy for all things. or maybe you are a catholic which basically is satanism in that case go on keep professing your santeria voodo cult.
Near the end Craig argues that God's moral reason for creating a world where people suffer terribly at random is because this may be the kind of world needed for their salvation. Earlier he was arguing that life itself is a journey to earn your salvation. Not only does the idea that people are intentionally born by God to suffer horrendously and then die of malnutrition or warfare in some countries seem like repulsive insanity to me, but how is God allowing someone who dies 5 minutes after childbirth to "earn their salvation"? These arguments are complete nonsense.
Then what of the Canaanite children and Mennonite children who were torn from their mothers’ stomachs and literally dashed on the rocks? Where does their salvation lie? Or was that the drive-thru version of achieving salvation? Or as Hitchens mentioned, the at least 98,000 years of children who never knew of The Word, including their parents and families. Where lies their salvation? The issues arises in the fact that if god exists, he has the ability have every single person be aware of his existence and message yet, as human history has shown us, only a select few have had that privilege it seems. Any subsequent punishment for the charge of apostasy then is inherently and ridiculously immoral and unbecoming of any being that deserves respect.
Plus, depending on who you believe, Jesus wasn’t god. You would have to reconcile that verse with Yahweh’s decision to kill every firstborn son in Egypt. Did Yahweh just get it wrong the first go-around?
@@surplusrevenge2013 Interesting assessment! Personally I think he got annihilated. He shouts very loudly but ultimately every one of his logical arguments is incredibly flawed IMO - and he makes many self-contradictory arguments too. If Hitchens had any weaknesses in the debate it was that he didn't engage him directly on these enormous flaws.
He has been in error regarding the truth about/from God/Jesus, the most important truth. The true believers know that it is not right to benefit by this world like taken for granted, with no Creator who owns it and who will judge our deeds into / with His creation (by the way, I have proved God's existence by using only elementary logic). The others, who don't want to accept the truth, are like those who live in "a house" (this world) but do not want both to follow the rules of the Builder / Owner (they denying Him) and to pay "the rent" (which means, in brief, to strive always only for good, for perfection, to never do evil, especially to not do evil intentionally) so that in the end, when they will face the Builder/Owner of the house (at the Judgment), they will regret their incorrect and undeserved using of the house (their earthly life). Atheists should have realized by now at least that the perfection of mathematics, which is the "language" used to "write" this reality (every shape in this 3D space/world having a corresponding equation that generates it) is one of the main proofs of God's perfection. Generally, those from such videos, exposed to my clear and undeniable demonstrations but who still want to remain atheists, are ignoring intentionally the simple fact that *from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes,* hoping that this reality is the result of no intelligence, in other words that God does not exist, only to escape the responsibility for their deeds, to not be Judged by God/Jesus after the leaving of this world, but they are in error. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10 My simple and undeniable demonstrations can be found quite easily after sorting the comments.
@@filmeseverin Your argument is a pathetic blend of delusion and self-righteous ignorance. The fact that you think elementary logic somehow "proves" God's existence is laughable-by that logic, you could "prove" anything you want. Mathematics describes patterns, it doesn’t support your petty deity. Claiming atheists reject belief only to avoid judgment is an insult to intelligence; people live moral lives because they *choose* to, not out of fear of some imaginary judge. You’re using ancient superstition and poor reasoning to justify your narrow, outdated worldview while dismissing any evidence that doesn’t fit your little bubble. Your "proof" is nothing more than the noise of an uneducated mind clinging to comfort in ignorance.
@@socratesbandeira The false believers are the "wolves in sheepskin". Only those too deceived will not sort the comments to read *entirely and carefully* all my demonstrations (which prove their errors) just to keep their deceiving. Furthermore, only those who renounce intentionally to elementary logic cannot understand my simple, clear and undeniable demonstrations.
@@filmeseverin In case you don't know, the "stopped reading" thing is a social media thing... I've actually read your disrespectful comment on someone's RiP post, but your "undeniable logic" is so "simple" I couldn't even see it!!
I agree, I think it’s partly because long form texting is not actual conversation. Also many folks just enjoy trying to win arguments. Most are not skeptics motivated to sincerely seek truth or compassionate believers motivated to show love in my opinion.
@@vincer7824 so are you assuming, everyone who has seek god, and has not found him/her/it, is just "not sincere enough?" Is that your broad generalization?
The honest case for Christian theism is this: "It may not be rational, but I believe it anyway because it gives me hope and makes my life better". If a Christian apologist made THAT case, I could at least respect the honesty -- as opposed to Craig's sophistry and sleazy salesmanship.
Agree. In order for religious apologists to appeal to rationally minded atheists and skeptics they have to try and talk the language of science, but they're just not cut out for it.
@@seantaylor4095 The serious and honest atheists have already the correct answers to all their matters to not be in error anymore. For the beginning, a good start is to read *entirely and carefully* my simple and undeniable demonstrations from my thread posted about 20 hours ago.
@@filmeseverin Believers in Jesus belong to a church. What Christian denomination do you belong to? Imposter! Deceiver! Every honest reader definitely knows to ignore you and your lies. Why do Romanians lie so much? There is no intelligence in you for sure. Every honest reader sees it. Stop lying.
Yeah, even at the end of the debate Craig started giving a sermon because he knew it was time to go for those embedded, indoctrinated feelings of the religious college students.
@@seantaylor4095 In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.
It kinda felt like he was double checking. Because why would you be concerned about such a thing, right? I mean if any of them said it was ok, then what are you going to do with that answer?
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🎵 Welcome to Biola University, hosting a debate on God's existence. 01:15 👋 Distinguished guests, students initiated the debate with acclaimed leaders William Lane Craig and Christopher Hitchens. 03:34 🎓 Biola's Master of Arts in Christian Apologetics is highlighted as a degree program. 06:04 📚 Featured books by Hitchens and Craig are available for signing; DVDs and CDs of debates and lectures are also promoted. 08:35 🏀 Theists and atheists gather for a debate moderated by Hugh Hewitt. 13:19 🎙️ William Lane Craig begins with arguments for theism, starting with the cosmological argument. 19:05 🌌 Craig presents the teleological argument, highlighting the fine-tuning of the universe. 25:24 🧐 Craig introduces the moral argument, asserting the connection between God's existence and objective moral values. 26:20 🤨 Objective morality debate: Craig argues that atheistic view lacks objective moral values; Hitchens contends moral values are innate and evolved. 27:48 🙌 Resurrection of Jesus: Craig presents historical case for Jesus' resurrection; Hitchens challenges need for divine explanation. 31:08 🤔 Immediate experience of God: Craig argues for direct experience of God as a basis for belief; Hitchens emphasizes skepticism and doubt. 35:48 🧐 Presuppositionalism vs. evidentialism: Hitchens critiques the distinction between presuppositionalists and evidentialists; questions the evidentiary basis of religious claims. 46:13 😇 Faith over evidence: Craig asserts primacy of faith over evidence based on the Holy Spirit's witness; Hitchens challenges this prioritization. 50:19 🌌 Physicists are uncertain about the origins of the universe, viewing it from an unimaginable distance in both space and time. 51:16 🌀 Challenges to the assumption of a designing god include the question of pre-existing material, infinite regress, and the existence of destruction and nothingness in the universe. 54:32 🤝 The existence of atheism isn't strongly disputed; Hitchens emphasizes the lack of need for special terms for disbelief in other mythical beings. 57:54 🕊️ The naturalist's adherence to evolution might be dogmatic due to the absence of intelligent design in their worldview. 01:00:15 🪄 Theism and deism are distinct; Dr. Craig's arguments build a cumulative case for Christian theism based on deductive reasoning. 01:04:56 🌍 Atheism's central assertion is that no evidence supports a supernatural realm; Hitchens criticizes the inconsistency of creation timing and widespread suffering. 01:06:25 🧬 The debate revolves around the question of whether belief in God is warranted based on evidence, immediate experience, or psychological grounds. 01:13:42 🧐 Christopher Hitchens challenges believers to name an ethical action/statement they could make that he couldn't. He points out that no advantage arises from divine sanction in morality. 01:14:41 😬 Hitchens highlights the negative aspects of religion, referencing genital mutilation, suicide bombings, genocidal injunctions in the Old Testament, and asserts that morality can't be derived from the supernatural. 01:15:08 🤝 Hitchens discusses the Golden Rule's limitations due to subjective interpretation, and emphasizes that morality arises from shared human empathy and societal evolution rather than religious origins. 01:16:36 💭 Hitchens debates free will and its connection to religion, discussing different perspectives, including Calvinism and Islam, and asserts that the wish for unfreedom is inherent in religion. 01:19:16 🤔 Craig questions Hitchens about his atheistic beliefs, distinguishing different forms of non-theism and asking whether he affirms God's non-existence or simply withholds belief. 01:20:44 🧐 Hitchens clarifies his view on atheism and discusses his preference for non-belief, expressing agnosticism as evasive and stating that he finds arguments for God unconvincing. 01:24:11 🤯 Craig discusses the concept of miracles and exorcisms attributed to Jesus, illustrating divine authority and pointing out the radical nature of Jesus' claims. 01:27:42 😇 Hitchens questions Craig about the legitimacy of miracles and resurrection, and the evidence required for claims of extraordinary events in religious narratives. 01:30:38 🙌 Craig acknowledges the possibility of false religious preaching, Hitchens highlights the potential for wickedness associated with preaching false religions, and the debate shifts towards denominational differences within Christianity. 01:32:55 🕊️ Craig concludes that there have been no compelling reasons presented to affirm atheism and asserts that positive atheism lacks evidence. 01:33:26 😇 William Lane Craig discusses how God prepared humanity for the advent of Christ, and how those who lived before Christ were covered by his atoning sacrifice, judged based on their response to general revelation. 01:35:20 🌌 Craig presents the cosmological and teleological arguments for God's existence, emphasizing that these arguments provide grounds to believe in a personal creator and intelligent designer of the universe. 01:35:48 🧩 The moral argument is discussed, with Craig asserting that atheism lacks a foundation for objective moral values, while theism provides a transcendent basis for such values. 01:38:41 🙏 Craig explains N.T. Wright's argument about the resurrection of Jesus, highlighting that the origin of the disciples' belief in a risen Messiah demands explanation, and the empty tomb and post-mortem appearances of Jesus provide a compelling case for the resurrection. 01:40:11 🤔 Christopher Hitchens counters by suggesting that religious beliefs are man-made and contradictory, referencing instances where religion supported harmful ideologies, and emphasizing the need for secular ethics and critical thinking. 01:43:17 🕊️ Hitchens challenges the assertion that unbelief leads to wickedness and that moral values come solely from religion, arguing that moral values can be understood without religious doctrine. 01:48:49 💡 Craig concludes by summarizing his arguments, asserting that atheism is a worldview that lacks evidential support, while theism offers explanations for cosmology, morality, and the resurrection of Jesus, inviting Hitchens and the audience to consider Christianity. 01:56:30 😄 Dr. Craig discusses the positive impact of religious guidelines on sexual expression, stating that religious people have more satisfying sexual lives. 01:56:59 🤔 Hitchens challenges religious beliefs about homosexuality and questions the contradiction between claiming homosexuality is against God's law while some are born homosexual. 01:58:00 ⚖️ A student questions Hitchens about blaming religion for violence when the creation of nuclear bombs by physicists caused massive destruction, leading to a discussion on the difference between physics and ideology. 01:59:11 😈 Hitchens argues that specific religious injunctions, like circumcision, are harmful, while Dr. Craig suggests that such practices might not accurately reflect the essence of faith. 02:00:41 🌍 A debate on whether atheists or religious individuals, like Marxists or Christians, have caused more harm in history, with Dr. Craig emphasizing the focus on the truth of worldviews rather than their societal impact. 02:02:08 🧐 Hitchens challenges the legitimacy of biblical commandments and actions, criticizing harmful religious behaviors that stem from perceived divine instructions. 02:03:35 🌟 A student raises the question of life's purpose for atheists and theists, leading to discussions about meaningful living, humanism, and the role of religious beliefs. 02:06:36 🔑 Dr. Craig asserts that without God, life lacks objective meaning, while Hitchens argues that humanism can provide meaningful purpose and positive motives. 02:08:06 💔 A debate about the existence of God's intervention in suffering and the problem of evil, where Dr. Craig defends the compatibility of God's existence with suffering. 02:18:03 😢 Dr. Craig acknowledges that the emotional problem of evil often stems from an aversion to a God who permits suffering. 02:18:32 🙏 The suffering of Jesus Christ on the cross provides a perspective on human suffering and evil, offering courage and strength to endure it. 02:19:25 🤔 Christian theism can provide understanding of suffering and evil in the world, giving purpose and hope through Christ's sacrifice. 02:20:23 ❓ Addressing theodicy, the challenge of suffering, Hitchens questions the validity of believing in a deity amidst intense human suffering. 02:21:56 🌍 Debates like this arise due to the rise of theocratic challenges and the need to counter the spread of harmful religious ideologies. 02:22:57 💡 The emergence of debates reflects a challenge to the modernity's secular worldview, questioning its consequences and seeking a renaissance of Christian thinking. 02:25:38 ✅ Good societies allow debates; confident faith welcomes them; accomplished scholars make them engaging and productive. 02:26:18 📚 Christopher Hitchens recommends N.T. Wright's books; book signing follows the event. 02:27:26 👋 The event concludes with acknowledgments and thanks to the participants and the university.
@@Mark-wk5dc WLC philosophy is just too far ahead of Hitchens, i think he leant towards more his well practiced weaker arguments, appeal to people's emotions and humour.
@@JonathanMafi "Far ahead"! Do you know how old his philosophical arguments are! Hitchens rebutted everything Craig said apart from granting him a creator from the kalam. His rebuttals seem to just fly over the heads of theists! Cognitive dissonance at its finest!
Those who sort the comments and read enough from my posts (both answers and threads) can see that *I have proved* that this reality has been created by an Intelligence (called God / the Creator) whose nature will never be really comprehended by humans (because of our proved limitations) except through Jesus Christ, the human form of God. *All evil has been done because of stupidity and the main/worst stupidity has always been to not listen by God/Jesus.* In particular, for mankind, if ALL people (over history and nowadays) would have followed the main commandment from Jesus Christ, *besides to love / respect our Heavenly Father, to love / respect (care for) the other humans as we love / respect (care for) ourselves,* all the crimes and the tremendous useless suffering would have never happen. Without *true belief* in God/Jesus, the following evil facts have happened, are happening and will happen, unfortunately: - so many millions of people killed in wars and not only (following the killing of billions in the Third World War); - so many trillions of dollars, euros, etc. wasted on nuclear, chemical, biological and conventional weapons, on armies, etc. only for killing and destruction... not used for: free better education for ALL, suitable jobs for ALL (without exploitation / slavery), healthier food for ALL, renewable energy, science, eradication of all diseases, better housing (resistant to earthquakes...), financing of useful inventions, recycling, reforestation etc. - sadism, violence, dishonesty, vices, envy ... stupidity in general. We should never fight against each other but only against our lack of useful knowledge / wisdom (for decreasing our ignorance), while loving / respecting each other as we love / respect ourselves, these being the main requests of God/Jesus. Therefore, both science and proper education are very important to understand God's creation and what is better, regarding the human behavior, so that ALL of us can be not only happier in our ephemera life into this world (while we are still alive here) but also deserving, or at least allowable, for perpetual life in Heaven (after leaving this world).
People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Bla bla bla Delusional stay delusional. Is it ok for one human to own another? Will you kill your own child if god asks? Are those bad things?
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 There is one religious person who says that murder is wrong because god told him and another religious person comes and says that murder is good because god told him. In your presupposition's world, who is right? Is it ok for one human to own another? Will you kill your own child if your god asks? Why do you worship an immoral god?
It is historical fact that Csar, Pharaoh, and Nebuchadnezzar were ancient leaders in nonreligious writings. Tell me more about your lack of research that found nothing more than hating Christianity and the Bible.
IF ONLY ... I can't remember how many times I've listened to this. Before this video, I listened to the sequel, with Dr. Craig and Sam Harris. Sam was trying to be funny, but nothing nor no one can compare to Christopher Hitchens. I miss him so much, but I'm so thankful for all his debates, interviews, discussions, speeches, &c. that preserve his wit, humor, brilliance, and scintillating personality online. I only regret that he wasn't also a chef so that I could have hundreds of hours more of him, this time in fine kitchens everywhere. "Hitchens in Kitchens" it might've been called. And a series of fascinating cookbooks could have been born 🥃☕️🥂🥩🫒🍋🍺🥢🍾🍷🍸🍹 And have y'all noticed that when it comes to Islam, he's our 21st century Nostradamus? No matter that he died almost 13 years ago, he remains right on every observation he ever made about the "religion of peace," except for Iraq. But Iraq was a political observation, not a religious one. He has always been spot-on about Islam and islamism. Back then, before Hitch died and when Sam used to debate religion, his dry humor was perfect for the subject matter. Since October 7, 2023, he seems to have picked up where he left off. However, he no longer uses humor, again because of the subject matter. Jerry Seinfeld broke down during an interview. Even Jesus wept. These are grim days for us (we?) secular Jews. If only Hitch were still with us. If only ...
WHAT IS HE MEANING OF LIFE? To have a relationship with God on earth so you can spend eternity together in Heaven. So, what pushes me away from God? Sin (lying, unforgiveness, sexual sins from lust, dishonouring parents, steeling, taking the Lord’s Name in vain etc) which leads to hell. But Jesus died on the Cross and rose from the dead to give you the ability to repent and Believe in Him as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.
I personally don't think Hitchens was right about more or less everything. But he was right about a lot, without doubt. I think your comment is super lovely :). May he rest in peace, even if he isn't in heaven or hell.
@@jonelervorths4110 All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
People like Hitchens are the contributing reason why half the country burns. Take God out if the equation and no has to respond to anyone. Survival of the fittest, Darwinism.
@@MrStamperh Your statement shows an absence of understanding of Darwinism. Also, in your statements, you make two claims without any elaboration as to what they mean, let alone without any supporting claims, evidence or arguing on a base of logic.
Gabriel Jordan ••• Yeah, Hitch was great. Christopher Hitchens was the best atheist apologists of his generation. They will miss him. I can remember when he was one of the propagandists that sold us on the idea of invading Iraq over 9/11 and nonexistent weapons of mass destruction. He even suckered me with that one. Have you ever wondered why they teach our kids big bang and evolution theory in school,and yet those same State controlled public schools haven't taught the science of classical logic for more than a century?(The Underground History of American Education by John Gatto) I guarantee you that if our government thought that making us believe in Zeus would make us twice as productive and easier to control , they would be teaching Zeus in our public schools right now. Our government has turned its back on Christianity because atheism makes better drones . They can't have hundreds of millions of heavily armed ignorant peasants running around thinking they have a soul and there's a God. That could get ugly. That's the stuff revolutions are made of. P.S. There is overwhelming reliable evidence to prove the existence of God, regardless what government stooges say. "The public is a ferocious beast; one must either chain it or flee from it." -Voltaire "Their central dogma is the immortality and transmigration of the soul. A doctrine which they regard as the finest incentive to courage, since it inspires contempt of death." -Julius Caesar, "The Commentaries", regarding the spiritual beliefs of the ancient Druids, 51 B.C.
Except the James Webb telescope and recent astronomical observations throwing a wrench in Craig’s entire argument about the exact start of the universe, the Big Bang, etc.. science is a bitch.
NASA MAN For a two hour live audience debate it’s not that long an introduction - for youtube viewers including me I thank the fellow above who posted the debate as starting at 13:00 or so.
As a Roman Catholic born and breed agnostic I never tried to prove my view on anyone else ever and it’s actually religious people who go door to door preaching to the masses
![William Lane Craig vs. Christopher Hitchens | "Does God Exist?" | Biola University | [HD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/P0XRQd9YOUM/mqdefault.jpg)
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
These guys clearly don’t know how to argue their points so I have come to the comment section to hear from the experts.
Right, the experts on God...
Google scientist I guess?
@Ψ perhaps the interpretation was too good haha
@Ψ and Im not saying they cant comment about it -_-
@Ψ Anyone claiming to be an expert in God, whatever that means, is an expert in nothing.
Man, the guy that I like DESTROYED the guy that I don't like
lol. precisely what 99% of people watching this think. thanks for posting this comment.
@Brendan Moriarty brendan moriarty, asking the real questions
Well, the purpose of the comment was to point out that people are more likely to be biased towards the view they believe rather than looking at the arguments objectively. I personally am a Christian, but I think that both Craig and Hitchens had some good arguments. I also think that Hitchens could have answered some of those questions more directly and I think that Craig could have listened more to what Hitchens was saying to respond better. It seemed like they were both focused on making there own case instead of responding adequately to the other person.
All I've picked up so far (20 minutes in), is that craig doesn't understand the big bang theory
@@tristanbenware3972 neither do any scientists.
I've had the pleasure in my life to have attended debates that featured Christopher Hitchens. As a theist I found him to be abrasive and often angering, but that speaks more to his brilliance because he forced me to think about other positions on theology as a whole. We don't have to agree on anything to be kind to one another. If you are making disgusting comments about him, it is my contention that it speaks more about you than about the late Mr Hitchens.
This^^ that's called reaching across the aisle...
Derric Hovekamp of all the people whom I have heard make statements and comments about life after death, heaven and such things, and say without apologizing that they were wrong, I'm curious what they have to say now that they are in the axact place they swore didn't exist. what do they have to brag about now.
I'm sorry, but that is such an extraordinary claim that I implore you to provide extraordinary evidence to back up said claim.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens
Derric Hovecamp - You was forced to think.... that means you are not a theist anymore, right? This should be the logical outcome of thinking, I mean, rationaly of course. Everybody think. Some rationaly. Many irrationaly.
Derric Hovenkamp,
Well said.
Man, i have never missed a man never knew so much. Rest in peace Hitchens.
Let's eat grandma or let's eat, grandma.
@@LGpi314 The rule is that you must separate words that aren’t part of the sentence but instead comment on the meaning of the sentence. Put another way, introductory words that appear at the beginning of a sentence are set off from what follows by commas. If you omit these words, the sentence still means the same thing. Common introductory words include yes, no, well, oh, okay and in this case "man". As in geez or sheesh. 🤣🤦♂️
@kidsyx if the word are not part of it, then why do you need to put them there to begin with. It makes no sense.
I find it ironic that you're telling Mr hitchens to "rest in peace". Mr hitchens, according to his own words is only to become dust and thus someday he will be completely forgotten.
Or, he will soon meet his maker and have to account for denying His existence.
Sadly, either way, he will at best, be experiencing nothingness or intense regret.
@@1texasminer Hitchens donated his body to medical science research. I also highly doubt he met his maker.
IDK if someone already said this and it got buried, but the debate starts 13:00
Do you mean WLC low-bar Bill got buried, period? LMAO
Bless you
@@ogbonnasam9997 Why!?
Although every second of the 13 minutes was enjoyable
No it doesn't mate
It's almost impossible to win an argument with a genius. It's even harder to win an arguement with an idiot.
Man, that is very Funny, then Who is it ??? 😅
Storm Blacklock You must be an idiot then
You couldn't be more correct.
Mike Biagio How
@@testacer5101 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Dr. Craig just won't let go of the argument that "Christopher has not presented any arguments that atheism is true." Hitchens addressed this directly multiple times....... In one ear and out the other..... and rather quickly
Because it's his job
Hm, similar can be said about Hitchens.
Craig is a psychotic lunatic
Yeah it was pretty frustrating when he would return to that tactic.
@@CedanyTheAlaskan I don't think Hitchens did so to anywhere near the same degree or against similarly valid criticism. Craig started with basically that exact same line at the beginning of each of his arguments, Hitchens at least attempted to deconstruct his arguments thoughtfully and with adaptability. I don't think the same can be said for Craig.
I was born into a very fervent Southern Baptist family in the most northeastern corner of Arkansas in a very small rural town where every single person were all members of the one Southern Baptist little church in our tiny little town. When I was older, I went into theology and became an ordained minister. Throughout the years of doing “God’s work”, I would preach the consequences of not surrendering one’s self to my God, and I was absolutely convinced that my interpretation of my version of my denomination of my religion was the only true interpretation of the only true version of the only true denomination of the only true religion.
Then I stumbled upon Christopher Hitchens. My first impression was that he was just another God hating atheist. But the points that he brilliantly presented kept coming back into my mind. Eventually, if I were to be intellectually honest with myself, I had to stop preventing myself from doing my own research. After years of studying and doing my own research, I realized that I had been wrong about my religious convictions and was finally brave enough to admit it to myself and let it go.
Welcome to reality. You are not alone. There are millions like you and that number is only growing.
@shawnsimmons1308 To not be deceived anymore, sort the comments and read as many of my posts (both answers and threads) as you can because *I have proved* not only God's existence and God's perfection, but also all the errors of the atheists and generally of all the unbelievers of the truth, who posts on such videos (they never had valid counter arguments but only lies, insults, ... ad hominem attacks instead).
@@filmeseverinbla bla bla. You are deceived. Satan told the truth and your god lied.
Deal with it.
It does take a lot to break through indoctrination, peer pressure and just a belief system one has grown up surrounded by. And it takes time and honesty to genuinely evaluate one's worldview. Filmeseverin has not managed it it and most likely never will be capable of such a feat.
So well done in breaking through and accepting reality above ancient stories and mythology.
@@El_Bruno7510 You are a deceiver because you kow already that I have been an atheist. Anyway, after hearing the truth about/from God/Jesus, only those who want to use freedom for evil are opposing to Divinity, feeling their freedom restricted, the really good humans being happy to receive the confirmation for their love of / striving for goodness, wisdom, justice... for perfection, as Jesus Christ has said: *_"Be perfect therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect"_* Matthew 5, 48
Unfortunately, too many people have refused over history, and too many still refuse nowadays, to follow this.
Without *true belief* in God/Jesus, the following evil facts have happened, are happening and will happen, unfortunately:
- so many millions of people killed in wars and not only (following the killing of billions in the Third World War);
- so many trillions of dollars, euros, etc. wasted on nuclear, chemical, biological and conventional weapons, on armies, etc. only for killing and destruction... not used for: free better education for ALL, suitable jobs for ALL (without exploitation / slavery), healthier food for ALL, renewable energy, science, eradication of all diseases, better housing (resistant to earthquakes...), financing of useful inventions, recycling, reforestation etc.
- sadism, violence, dishonesty, vices, envy ... stupidity in general.
the actual debate doesn't start until 0:13:45
Thanks
God bless your imaginary soul
TY so much!!!
Thank you
Thank you.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Those 12 word sums up atheism perfectly!
Here's another thing i tend to say when people ask why i call myself an atheist:
Religious people believe 1 god and reject 999 gods, as an atheist I simply reject all 1000 gods.
@@Car_Mo Well...I mean you aren't actually saying that all religions are equally plausible?
@RUSSIAN ROBOT experiences aren't evidence they are anecdotes
I agree. Atheism can simply be dismissed. It is a mentally bankrupt belief.
@RUSSIAN ROBOT what evidence do you have for the magic man's existence? Your backwards superstitious nonsense has none
Respect to Biola for actually platforming the opposition and providing a debate that students can derive their own conclusions from. Amazing how only about 6 years after this, the new norm is anything but hearing both sides
To many universities are nowno longer about learning, but indoctrination, sadly.
This video was posted in 2014. The actual debate was in 2009 and Hitchens died in 2011
I wonder what Mr Hitchens would have made of Trump.
timothy clancy If you don’t see the connection between religiosity and the current interloper, I can’t help you.
timothy clancy didn’t ask for your help. I was just musing.
Who’s still here in 2024??
I'm. Hitchens's slaps are the best. They go over religious dumsters' heads.
"I never tire of debating religious people, because you never know what they´re gonna say next"
-Christopher Hitchens
Posted 25 mins ago... you're the chosen one
@@adharmi3458 lol
Christopher Hitchens was in error regarding the truth from/about God/Jesus.
I have been, also, an atheist until the vision received.
@@filmeseverin really?
some historian said that some people said Jesus was not in his grave and that makes you believe he is God?
could you be any more gullible?
@Subutai I´m an atheist,
and fuck you if that guys a murtad in your eyes.
Ahhh yess... The perfect recommendation at 2 am
Finally I'll be able to fall asleep questioning my logic and beliefs
Don't forget your identity.
Staring at the ceiling, late at night, questioning your identity, is not to be forgotten.
:P
@@FabledNarrative Check your watch every 30 seconds and remember who you are and where you came from :D
Same!!!! 😊
I’ll pray for you today because I’ve struggled similarly. I’ve come to Christ (or Him to me) and I pray you get there too
Night night
I didn’t come for the two very well educated men that engaged in a debate. I came for the REAL educated experts in this comment section.
Edit: Y’allwent crazy on my comment LOL. I can spot the “educated experts” that have no idea what they’re talking about (Looking at you Atheist)! Though some of you atheists bring up good points consistent with other educated atheist, a lot of you are kinda failing lol. Keep going y’all, it’s fun to watch and get a fricking email every time someone comments :/
I hope you are not disappointed....?
Ahahahagha same
Being a cubs fan, it's understandable
2 well educated men in the debate? I hope you do not mean that, since "Dr." Craig has still not understood what atheism is and is perfectly happy to openly show how ignorant he is on basic biology and evolution
Oh that's me then 😄
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." ---Bertrand Russell
That says a lot about religious people like filmeseverin and freshapologetics.
In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.
Big thumbs up to BiolaUniversity for being welcoming to opposing views, hosting the debate AND allowing comments. Appreciate it.
is this a scientific based debate or philosophy based debate or even more or thelogical
I do too. I found it quite refreshing to see the evangelical host of the event appeared genuinely welcoming to Hitchens and the atheist/agnostic community in attendance, plus he had a good sense of humor. Bravo.
@@Relaxpresenterwithout God there would be no internet, without God there would be nothing. God is, God was, God is eternal, God is sovereign. He is the beginning the end. I feel sorry for people that don't believe. Whats the point of life. Please don't say evolution, biggest crock ever plus there is no God? Yes there is a God! I can't make someone believe in God. Believing in God takes faith. No one ever made believe, my heart told me , its a feeling of knowing. This is just my opinion.
@@j.c.follower6538 How Christianity is scientific?
@@j.c.follower6538 lol
Hitchens calling the Putin regime a dictatorship in 2009....Who is watching this in 2024?
I mean, he got 88% of the vote, so clearly he is the preferred candidate… 😂😅🧐🥸🫡😵
Hitchens was a war monger
@@millbrook7384 Not as preferred as the human God Kim Jung Il 😂😅🧐🥸🫡😵
@@millbrook7384 imagine believing that
@@Funça_do_ancapistãosarcasm
Why don’t our political debates happen this respectful, calm and rationally.
Appealing to emotion and playing to the audience is far more visually entertaining than reasoned discussion. If politicians had to build a convincing argument and cite facts as a basis, the population would realise they make it up as they go along.
i know right man i hope i woud be like that
Because they give a person just so much power
Because they rid themselves of the intelligentsia because they thought it would be wise
Now public opinion is formed by directly involving the people in discussions instead of letting them be arbiters between intellectuals, the only thing the people are somewhat good at
Bought and paid for 'intellectuals' telling the people what to think, the rise of the term 'intellectual honesty' while it was supposed to be integral
The 'dangers' of having capable intellectuals, debaters, ruining establishment narratives
A new order based on fear and control brought by certified intellectuals and technocrats
Although, of course, for much of religious history, theologians were often very much like how Jaap Aap describes, too...
Mr. Craig is putting real effort into not listening, to the guy he is debating ... I think no matter what Hitchens had said, the answers would have been the same from Mr. Craig.
There are two kinds of atheists: those only temporarily deceived, being too superficial regarding the Creator of this reality (as I used to be due to the atheistic education under the communist regime) and those who do not want God to exist, who deny everything that proves their errors, such as all my simple, clear and undeniable demonstrations (found quite easily after sorting the comments).
@@filmeseverin if "god" exists, which one is it then, there are hundreds of religions.
And if your "god" exists, why not just bring him out.
Something that only exists in someones mind is a fantasy, nothing else.
There is though only one kind of religious extremist, those who believe in, something that should be physical, but only exist in their heads ...
@@Socialistenif you think all religions are fake that’s fine, but if you think each of them all are equally worth consideration then you are even worse than all
@@filmeseverin for all of your professed 'demonstrations'. You have never produced anything but opinion. Worse still, that opinion was one of a moron
Ingen skräll att "Socialisten" är helt hjärndöd
"Threatening an atheist with hell is like threatening to punch them in the aura." that's hilarious
Hahahaha 😂😂😂 needed a laugh!!!
@@markusbaker1161 You are always welcome.
Atheists are stupid. They aren't that skeptical when it comes to day to day life and somehow become very skeptical when it comes to God. They can't define the criterion for proof or disproof, just try very hard to stick with their lunacy with stupid arguments.
Warning an atheist about Hell is like warning 18th century peasant digging up clumps of peat for fuel about climate change
@@malcolmmitchell4709 "Warning an atheist about Hell" You sure can try. I as an atheist don't believe in hell so I'm good.
How often, these days, would a college crowd allow to speak guests who differ from them? And how often, these days, would speakers who differ from each other treat each other with respect and courtesy?
How horribly things have changed over the past decade.
@Late to the Game Mine, either. But then, I was in college about 50 years ago. Different era (thankfully).
This was done because the crowd, venue and speaker thought they could handle Mr. Hitchens in a variety of ways. They'll never understand he has more conviction than they do. He wasn't given his opinion he formed his own and he knows it.
The world won't be the same without you Christopher. Cheers mate!
@@Datharass Correct. Hitchens is non-emotional, fact-based, and simply factual. WLC, per usual, seems like he is working on a sermon. Hitch is prepared for a conversation, WLC is prepared for a paper with footnotes.
rn they would be jumping up infront of the speakers screaming and chanting all while the gutless faculty does nothing until eventually someone pulls a fire alarm
Frequently
That's the good thing about science, it's true whether you believe in it or not.
Thank God for Science.
Joe L god has nothing to do with science because he doesn't exist
Fish became Humans, and that is science folks.
Humans came from a Fish. is this scientific or appealing to emotions?
so where did Humans come from?
I have to say, listening to Dr Craig is really painful. He is simply not listening to Christopher at all and to be quiet frank, he sounds like a religious fanatic or lunatic and just like any fanatic, no matter how good an argument is, if it goes against anything they have been taught, they just won't accept it.
low-bar Bill. That is all I'm going to say.
@geno81 Atheists cannot answer seriously to the *Are you and this world the result of no intelligence?* question, otherwise, they would have to admit the existence of God, because *from no intelligence involved no intelligence comes.* That is why, for example, George Enescu has said: "In my humble opinion, you have to be really naive to seriously declare that God does not exist."
By the way, those who sort the comments and read enough from my posts (both answers and threads) can see that *I have proved* that this reality has been created by an eternal perfect Intelligence (called God / the Creator) whose nature will never be really comprehended by humans (because of our proved limitations) except through Jesus Christ, the human form of God.
@@filmeseverin More bullcrap and still no evidence of your god or any other gods. Reposted as S P A M
1. *"From no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes":* This is a blatant case of circular reasoning. You assume intelligence must be the source of all intelligence and then present this assumption as proof. That’s not logic; that’s intellectual laziness. Evolutionary biology and neuroscience explain how intelligence emerges from simpler processes. You’d know this if you bothered to read a science textbook instead of clinging to simplistic platitudes.
2. *"The perfection of mathematics proves God's perfection":* This is a category error. Mathematics is a human-created system to describe patterns and relationships-it doesn't "prove" anything about supernatural beings. Claiming math is "perfect" only highlights your shallow understanding of both math and reality. Math reflects the consistency of the universe, not some divine perfection.
3. *"Photons and atoms have intelligence":* This is sheer nonsense and demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of physics and chemistry. Photons and atoms don’t have "intelligence"; they follow natural laws. Saying they’re "intelligent" because they behave predictably is like saying a rock is intelligent for staying on the ground when you drop it.
4. *"God is eternal and not bound by time":* This is just a baseless assertion. You’re asking us to accept your claim without evidence while also dismissing the need for evidence because "God is beyond comprehension." That’s not an argument-it’s an evasion. If God is so incomprehensible, how can you claim to know anything about Him, let alone His motives or attributes?
5. *"God hides direct evidence to test us":* This is classic special pleading. You excuse the absence of evidence by claiming it’s intentional. If God’s existence is so obvious, why would He need to hide? And why would an all-loving deity care more about blind faith than genuine understanding? That’s not love; that’s manipulation.
6. *"The works of Satan":* Blaming carnivores, parasites, and diseases on Satan is laughably archaic and ignores the mountain of evidence for natural processes like evolution. It’s easier for you to cling to medieval myths than to face the uncomfortable reality that nature is indifferent and complex, not divinely choreographed.
7. *"Freedom to choose goodness":* This argument falls apart under scrutiny. If God really wants us to choose goodness freely, why create a system where ignorance, suffering, and confusion are rampant? A truly good God would equip everyone with the same clear understanding, not rig the game with hidden evidence and arbitrary punishments.
8. *Biblical quotes as "evidence":* Quoting scripture to prove your point is circular reasoning. You’re essentially saying, "God exists because my holy book says so," which is meaningless to anyone who doesn’t already share your faith. Try using actual evidence instead of ancient texts riddled with contradictions and moral atrocities.
*Your entire argument is built on fallacies: circular reasoning, special pleading, appeals to ignorance, and emotional manipulation.* You’ve proven nothing except your inability to engage with science or logic in good faith. If this is the best you have, maybe it’s time to reconsider the strength of your beliefs instead of parroting tired apologetics that crumble under scrutiny.
@@filmeseverin To claim that "you have to be really naive to seriously declare that God does not exist" is not only intellectually lazy, but outright dismissive of centuries of rigorous philosophical inquiry and scientific investigation. This type of arrogant, condescending thinking ignores the core issues raised by **David Hume** , **Bertrand Russell** , and **Richard Dawkins** , who have all argued with far more sophistication and logic than your blanket dismissal of atheism.
Hume's **"Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion"** critiques the idea that the world must be designed by a perfect being, showing that humans project their own understanding of order and purpose onto the cosmos, which could just as easily be random or governed by indifferent forces. **Russell** in **"Why I Am Not a Christian"** critiqued the moral arguments for God's existence, pointing out that a benevolent, omnipotent God would not allow the suffering and evil we observe in the world. **Dawkins** , meanwhile, in **"The God Delusion"** , dismantles the traditional theistic arguments-cosmological, teleological, moral-while offering a compelling case for naturalism, showing how evolution and natural processes can explain complexity without resorting to a divine designer.
The claim that God’s nature cannot be comprehended by humans, except through a very particular theological lens, is also an intellectually cowardly stance. **Immanuel Kant** argued that human cognition is limited, not that there is an impenetrable divine mystery we must simply accept. This claim weakens any genuine understanding of religion. Instead of engaging with the profound problems of theism-such as the problem of evil, contradictions within religious texts, or the historical fallibility of religious institutions-those who invoke this argument prefer to retreat into unprovable faith and comfort themselves with untestable dogma.
By relying on faith in a divine explanation while dismissing centuries of critical thought, this type of argument isn't offering wisdom; it’s evading reality. The **"argument from ignorance"** -that just because we don’t have all the answers, God must fill the gap-is both intellectually dishonest and historically discredited. The **"God of the gaps"** argument has been used to justify everything from flat-earth cosmology to outdated medical practices and must be discarded in any serious intellectual conversation.
In reality, dismissing atheism as "naive" isn't a robust defense of theism; it's an admission of the inability to address its challenges head-on, and it reveals nothing more than intellectual arrogance devoid of understanding. **Sam Harris** describes this as the **"faith-based delusion"** -a blind adherence to ideas because they offer comfort or tradition, rather than rational, evidence-based belief.
If you claim that these intellectual giants are all wrong simply because they don’t agree with your conclusions, it says more about your inability to engage in critical thought than about the validity of your beliefs.
Pft, amateurs! I came to hear from the real expert theologians and scientists and unprecedented philosophy prodigies in the comment section.
Same here
I paused at 0:01 and scrolled down immediately lol.
But I've probably already seen this debate anyways.
@Thomas Jefferson You got evidence for the disciple's , bit of conformation bias along with large does ignorant happening here.The bible is the claim ,you cant use the bible as evidence ,its not.
@@ossiedunstan4419 if you don’t mind clarifying for me, why can’t the Bible be used as evidence?
@@ohmahfoot3995 I’ll clarify that for you. Because it’s a load of bollocks. I think that cuts to the chase.
Regardless of the content of this video, I think we should all salute the quality of the debate !! It was so highly civilized, respectful and organized that I "a third language English speaker" could fully understand and keep up with the argumentation and the logic followed by each of the debaters.
I'm from Tunisia, an Arabic country in north Africa, where this kind of debates might never take place, and if it ever does, there won't be that many of an audience to attend it, as the population doesn't really seek to prove or to disprove their belief, and they are just ok with keeping their faith as it is without shaking it with doubt even if that would actually strengthen their religious view.
I felt so badly urged to comment on this video, for its value and importance for the freedom of speech, of questioning, criticizing and arguing what is sacred or taboo to others.
Thank you BiolaUniversity for publishing this online, so could I and many others around the world benefit of this high quality debate, that we can't host in our countries depriving its people of their right to discuss the matters that society forbids.
Since you say you are Tunisian and that English is your "third language", let me make a bet on what is you "second language": Bienvenue dans le monde de la pensée critique Akram :)
@@lbourrou Merci haha :)
If it would be the only good thing the Arab world could learn from the "West", than it´s vital for a society to be openly discuss all relevant things humans are "touched" by. I know there are several attempts in societies like yours to do it like here and I hope people go this way everywhere, because it prevents us from totalitarianism in every form. Stay safe and curious, maybe you yourself become the "savior" of your broken society. My thoughts are with you!
Akram, your English is very good for a 3rd language. And I really appreciate your post. But I wonder, who do you agree with, Hitchens or Craig. I can assure you 100% that Craig has the truth. There is the one true God in heaven who loves us and sent His Son, Jesus Christ to die on the cross, to pay the price for our sins. And Christ is coming back again someday to take His children home. May God bless you richly.
@@davewalt1781 Thanks :)
without taking any position, and just considering the fact that both of them are struggling or trying hard to convince, only means that the existence of God isn't really that obvious or undeniable ! It is still under debating and argumentation, and we are not certain.
My personal opinion, is that "I don't know" but I won't take religion as a final answer. Religion won't stop my curiosity to know the truth, I will keep looking and I will simply admit my current ignorance based on lack of proof.
That's why I appreciate this kind of conversations, because I learn !
A rich man asked Jesus. How can I get into heaven to which Jesus said give all your worldly wealth to the poor. Why doesn’t the church do that .
The church's wealth is used to build and maintain hospitals, charities and for other humanitarian purposes. I'm sure not all is for good though, but majority of it is for good. In the early Church of St. Peter, the people gave their wealth to him so that everyone shared wealth and had what they need. No one was without.
The same thing is done by the Church now but on a much grander scale. Some of the Church's wealth is used to renovate old churches to attract more church goers and for other humanitarian reasons.
They do give their wealth to the poor. You may say, "Then why is the Vatican so grand and beautiful?" Well, that took many years to build and art is art. It's treated as a holy place also for the congregation of Catholics and Christians so it serves a good purpose. The Vatican now only spends in maintainence and not too much on making new things without reason.
Rae Estomata then they should use the money they aren’t spending on patronage to further alleviate the poor, perhaps even enough to make a significant difference to the worldwide poverty scene.
@@amonks891 to be fair, poverty is a reoccuring problem that really depends on the government and other high-profile companies. I don't know how much money you think the Church has but you have to consider the amount to pay for tax on property and all the other small things that run a building/organization.
You can ask the same thing of big companies like Microsoft who donate much to charity because they are required to. And yet, poverty still exists in the world. The Church alone selling all they have or just giving everything away will not help the poor forever, but it will cause current charities, hospitals, and churches they have to collapse. Poverty is solved by multiple people (govt, individuals, large companies) and cannot be shouldered by the Church alone.
@@amonks891 to add to that, the Church in itself is a sanctuary for criminals or people in need. There's that law that dictates if someone asks for sanctuary in a church or seminary, the government can't touch them. It's not a one-all-be-all effort the Church does to help the poor. It's a continuous process that exists to help them because giving away everyting at one moment will only last for a short while. They already do have programs for the poor but it depends on what country you are in.
What would Hitch think about our world today. I wish he was still here.
I think he would say either "I told you so" or "Thank you for confirming I was right all along".
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
Me too! Kept wishing I could listen to his opinion on the nightmare democracy faces.
@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 nonsense, absolute nonsense, that hurts people just as Hichen's historical research shows.
@@rjs8044 99% sure that guy is a bot lol. If not he needs something to do with his time.
Why even watch the debate when the random people in the comment section are far more intelligent
If not as intelligent at least as funny as least as funny as fck (sometimes)
1:58:30 Check out the audience in the background. A lot of kids....people in their late teens and early 20s. And just watch them...all of them. Look how _interested_ and curious they all just seem. It seems pretty blatantly obvious to me. I honestly think Hitchens did a _huge_ service in showing up for this debate...at a Christian college. And it's just fascinating to watch this entire debate, and then almost 2 hours in, see the faces of just a tiny portion of the young audience there. I think his form of thinking absolutely had a lasting impact on many of them. Hell, this was 11 years ago...some of these people are now in their 30s. My brother used to be 100% on the young evangelical track....now, it's been many years since he's left that behind. Happened to me too. I'm 37....but from about 1997 to 2003 I was absolutely in the same camp...and convinced the rapture was just around the corner. I've moved far _far_ beyond that. And I'd venture a guess that many of the kids in this audience have as well...
avedic
Totally agree Hitchens was brilliant it’s a shame he was so wrong about Iraq and mainly only dealt with the low hanging fruit in theistic belief during his debates. I don’t agree with his approach to the philosophy of religion but I still really like him to be honest and find many of his observations hilarious. However, many eminent atheist philosophers such as Mary Midgeley, Massimo Piggliussi, Michael Ruse, Thomas Nagel and scientists such as Roger Penrose prefer to distance themselves from “New atheism” recognising it as a militant form of atheism that does more harm than good.?Hitchens early history including family and school life certainly shaped many of his ideas as he was clearly a man of many contradictions..
He actually formed a close friendship with the theist Larry Taunton whilst they were on a road trip together in America. Hitchens was fighting cancer at the time and was actually being treated by a cancer expert who was a Christian minister. Interestingly, when skimming through a copy of the Bible on the way to a debate Hitchens asked Larry why did Jesus weep at the death of his friend Lazarus?
There was no doubt he knew Jesus was an historical character and whilst he railed against theists and the Bible on stage, he maintained meaningful though largely hidden from public view friendships with Christians who were prominent scientists such as Francis Collins and the author Larry Alex Taunton. He also showed a lot of respect and humility towards the Oxford professor John Lennox after admitting to losing to him in one particular debate. It’s clear that, whilst Hitchens showed little reverence for “faith” and “superstition” on the stage, he had a likeable and lovable personality behind the scenes. It seems that what Larry and Hitchens shared on the two long road trips they had together was a (faith) in friendship which is possibly why Hitchens was curious about Jesus reaction to Lazarus death. However, there is no powerful evidence of Hitchens having a death bed conversion as some dishonest “theists” may claim. Equally, Larry Taunton did not claim Hitchens had a deathbed conversion as some staunch and dishonest atheists who haven’t even read Larrys book insist he did. Maybe Larry should have called his book the “Friendship of Hitchens” rather than the “Faith of Hitchens” so as not to offend the “faith” of staunch atheists. But why would Larry do such a disingenuous thing when he believed that the concept of human friendship had clearly evolved into more than just some herd or survival instinct.
“Friendship is unnecessary, like philosophy, like art.... It has no survival value; rather it is one of those things which give value to survival” (C.S. Lewis). Lewis was an atheist nearly half his life and carried around shrapnel in his body from WW2. Interestingly, Lewis was a genius and converted to Christianity due to the (friendship) and influence of friends such as J.R. Tolkien and also the literature of G.K. Chesterton and George McDonald.
Similarly, this quote from Hitchens speaks volumes about Hitchens character, honesty and approach to friendship when he was not in his stage persona...
“If everyone in the United States had the same qualities of loyalty and care and concern for others that Larry Taunton had, we'd be living in a much better society than we do”
(Christopher Hitchens)
I hope so for their sake
Like you?
back when people weren't terrified of opposing views
Every time I see a theist accusing atheists of attacking them, I think of this quote:
“Religious apologists complain bitterly that Atheists and Secularists are aggressive and hostile in their criticism of them. I always say: look, when you guys were in charge, you didn’t argue with us, you just burnt us at the stake. Now what we’re doing is, we’re presenting you with some arguments and some challenging questions, and you complain.” - A.C. Grayling
@@LGpi314son resentidos porque la religión se les impuso y se les dominó.
where are people terrified of opposing views?
@@luciennoxisou9502 are you that out of touch? or just too young to notice the shift? they run this very platform my guy 😂 we can barely have real discussion or debate on serious topics now due to people who think the solution to "bad ideas" isn't better ideas.. rather its just to ban the "bad ideas"
@@americannacho lol, huh - I’m probably older than you, but what context or platforms are you talking about wherein all this debate is not occurring ? Mainstream media ? Academia ? On the street ? Social media ?
Hats off to the audience, organizers and participants of debate! They differ in their opinions wildly but they were so nice in presenting their differences... hope that could be the case for the rest of the world one day!
Yes, we can only hope that in the future we will become as One World.
R u Muslim?
@David Mutchler stfu simp
@David Mutchler
You thirsty as f bruh
@@enaremco well said
It's nice to hear William Craig talk in 2024. It takes me back to my childhood days when records would often get stuck in a loop
Nowadays WLC supports genocide as long as his god does. LMAO
In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 You are yapping nonsense. You have no evidence besides a self-contradictory, ancient, moronic book to back up your assertions. You are not intellectual, you are ideological.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363
Stop going to every Hitch video and commenting the same peculiar message. I’m sick of seeing it all over. If you keep it at home, we wouldn’t be having all these debates to begin with.
@@mjabdelrazzaq If I knew you were in the way of incoming traffic id pull you out of the way. Likewise, if you were in a burning building, I’d pull you out as well. What you don’t realise is your soul is on fire hence the preaching. The word of God is offensive to you right now but once you become a Christian you will realise the awesomeness of God and what love really is.
Is it annoying if a doctor says you have cancer and shows you the cure?
religious debates:
organised by christians, super popular with atheists :p
lol christian love debate
@Charles George How is debating foolish? Maybe if you think there's no way someone can be convinced.
@Charles George That seems like a very basic view, seeing that many atheists come from theistic backgrounds and claim to have felt the presence of god before
@Charles George what do you mean by both contain truth? and what experience did you have? No matter what it is, what do you think about all the people who had experiences of other religions? or stuff like aliens? how can your experience confirm there is a god when perception is flawed and the human mind is incredibly vulnerable to delusions?
@Charles George you said it brother! You can only understand through your own experience, and you existing is an experience whether you accept it or not and one that doesn’t lack intelligent design. No chicken before the egg 🖖🏼
Theism: "God exists."
Atheism: "I don't believe you."
Very simple concept.
Where does personal experience fall into this? Have an unreal story about my firm belief in Jesus after some incredible circumstances!
@TJordan14 You don't know or have enough info to make an intelligent decision about this.
God created this universe
A big blast occurred out of nowhere.
Both require extraordinary faith 😂
@@NewtonVieira wrong. Faith is belief in something with no evidence to support it. Science doesn't claim anything to be absolute, simply the best case scenario. Religion is the one who makes absolute claims, with nothing to back it up. Not to mention the fact that the claims science makes are demonstrable and verifiable. Can't say the same about religion!😜
@@jtg1972 execept there is no evidence pointing to a big bang but its widely accepted by scientists 🤷♂️
I think these two men genuinely respected each other; something many people commenting, might consider.
Mr Incognito they both deserve much respect
@@Godlimate Lane Crage really doesnt deserve any respect least of all from Hitchens.
Hayden Hollingsworth I used to think the same also. I disagree with WLC views, however, in the realm of philosophy he is quite knowledgeable in particular with metaphysics/ ontology (the respect deserved is in the credentials). It’s nice to see how people actually think when they take on this kind of position to broaden our perspective, and of course the perspective of Hitchens also.
There is a difference between civility and respect.
I doubt very much that Hitch respected that windbag of Craig. That guy is a moron, to put it mildly...
Hayden Hollingsworth and he was definitely not respected by Hitchens.
No cosmological would say the universe comes from "nothing" because nobody knows what was there "before " the big bang. All we know is that approx 13.7 billion years ago the universe was super hot and super dense and this was followed by a rapid expansion which we refer to as the big bang.
Theists love the whole "something from nothing" card, but the philosopher's "nothing " is not the same as the cosmological nothing.
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 what if I put my faith in Osiris or Shiva instead?
Indeed.
"You think the universe came from nothing!" No, we don't. But you think someone spoke it into existance. From nothing. Projection.
"You think you evolved from a rock!" No, we don't. Organic molecules are organic, not mineral. You on the other hand think we were made out of mud like a golem, then a rib.. Like a necromantic spell. Projection.
"You stole the golden rule!" No, we didn't. That 'rule' has existed in cultures far detached and considerably older than Christianity. Projection.
The list goes on and on. And then we have the opposite.
"Science is bad!" "Science now proves god!" No, it isn't. And no, it doesn't.
"War on Christmas!" The X in X-mas is the first letter of Jesus in.. Damnit, I can't remember the language right now. But that means Jesus. Besides, we all know Christmas is the result of a number of holy days of other cultures being apropriated because they couldn't be stamped out.
"Halloween is Satan!" All Hallows Eve was the creation of the church.
"The Big Bang is dumb!" Well, the name is, sure. Made up by a Catholic priest in an attempt to discredit the idea. And so on.
I'm not going to claim there is no higher power, but I'm pretty confident it's not the one most often claimed. And no matter what this higher power might be, (if any), it really needs better arguments in it's favour. "Because I said so" doesn't cut it. And neither does "Might makes right", which is basically what they all boil down to right now.
@@sLazar5520 Jesus Christ has been seen resurrected by many hundreds of people (Josh McDowell wrote “Evidence That Demands A Verdict.” Lee Strobel wrote “The Case For Christ.” Both books help to settle the issue that Christ is alive). The early Christians would not have given their lives, suffering torture to death, without knowing that Jesus Christ had certainly risen. History confirms this through more documents, for example Tacitus: "Therefore, to squelch the rumor, Nero created scapegoats and subjected to the most refined tortures those whom the common people called “Christians.” [...]. Their names come from Christ, who, during the reign of Tiberius, had been executed by the procurator Pontius Pilate.” (Annals, pg. 89 of Meier’s English Translation)
Only Jesus Christ (the human form of Divinity) has said: *_"I am the way, the truth and the life."_* He also said: *_"The sky and the earth won't last forever, but my words will."_* Matthew 24, 35
_"Paul, an apostle-sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead [...] I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that _*_the gospel I preached is not of human origin._*_ I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."_
I can’t quantify how much I miss Christopher these days. :)
I miss him too, just like the bubonic plague.
I can
God committed adultery by impregnating Mary bear Jesus Christ.?
@@2633babe God did not have sex with Mary. She was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. And I'd be careful blaspheming the one true God in heaven. God is love but there is also the wrath of God.
dave Walt lol
Knowing now that Hitchens was diagnosed with cancer in 2010 and this was occurring in 09 I can't help but notice moments where he seems a bit out of it in body language and yet he still gives a well articulated and thought out debate. You will be greatly missed.
I miss the Hitch enormously, as a fellow atheist
As a Christian he will be missed. May he rest in peace
he was probably just drunk as usual
@@StraightToBlack still intelligent and eloquent even when drunk, I envy him his brain
With all due respect I didn’t hear any compelling argument. He used to joke a lot to take the focus away from his poor arguments which is by itself a silent admission of a defeat
Hitchens explained to him like 10 times in different ways, why he doesn’t have to prove a non-existence, that the burden of proof is on the person who’s making the claim. Then every single time he went and repeated the same thing “We haven’t heard any good arguments of why Atheism is real!”
It’s like what this person wrote in his book “Whenever you are presented with the contradictory evidence you should always choose your faith over that” is actually true. No matter what anyone says or what evidence you are presented with, all you gotta do is repeat the same nonsense as you always have...
th-cam.com/video/t6dzEyFMLFI/w-d-xo.html
Atheism is real whether they like it or not. "Atheism" is the rejection of any god of any kind. It's a belief and it exists, so therefore it is obviously real. He could replace the word "atheist" here with any other religion and make the same shitty argument lol, except that would equate to his religion as well so he can't he has to use Atheism because "atheists evil".
@@TmanT321 What do you mean by “atheism exists”? And how does that imply a burden of proof in any way? Seriously, it doesn’t logically follow.
Look, atheism simply doesn’t mean “positive belief that no gods exist.” There is a smaller subset of atheism that does make that claim, but it’s just a subset. Craig knows this, and he even admits it when he accidentally slips up and says the phrase “also known as *positive* atheism”. He’s just playing word games to force Hitchens to accept a burden of proof that doesn’t really belong to him.
And that whole idea is ridiculous in other ways. If we all start out as blank slates, without any real knowledge of the universe, then we don’t know about any gods, the entire concept of god is foreign to us. We start off just investigating the world and forming mental models to explain it.
If we don’t start with knowledge of “deity” as a concept or category, then we simply don’t have any claims at all about deities. It’s only when a religious person *introduces a claim* about their god that we even begin to consider such a claim. And even then, we are not obligated to form a belief in one direction or the other. We can just accept “I don’t know” as a final answer on the matter.
The challenge for theists is that they can’t say “I don’t know.” They can say something like “I can’t prove it,” which is a different thing, but the foundation of their worldview is that they DO know. They are asserting a truth claim about a deity that they have to go out of their way to describe and define, which further demonstrates that they are the ones introducing a claim to an otherwise claim-free context.
If you really want to talk about other religions, then let’s go there. Does a Buddhist child raised in a remote Buddhist village have any idea what you mean by “god” when you ask her? Probably not. She hasn’t been introduced to the concept of “god”, and is content with a religious worldview that doesn’t require any notion of “god”. So she doesn’t have a claim for or against the existence of a god. If you explained what a “god” is to her, and told her you think your god exists, she might just shrug her shoulders and say, “Sure, I guess that is possible, but it really doesn’t affect my worldview in any way.” Or she might say, “That idea sounds silly, but you are welcome to demonstrate the truth of your claim. I don’t have a reason to believe it until you provide a lot more evidence.”
The only reason it would ever make sense for atheists to bear the burden of proof is if we *assume a priori* that God exists, and that the evidence for God is shown to everyone everywhere, for all time. If that were the case, then sure, it would make sense for everyone to be expected to have some kind of opinion about it (although it’s still fair to say “I don’t know”). This is the presuppositionalist argument, and it’s inherently circular, since it presupposes God’s existence as a premise in an argument for God’s existence. And Craig is certainly not a presuppositionalist.
@Frank Silvers I think I explained it pretty well in my above comment. Is there anything in there that doesn’t make sense to you?
@@dupersuper1000 Yes, the entire thing. Please go back to your cult meetings and leave the smart people to move the world forward. The burden of proof lies with you, because you claim something exists. If you accuse someone of a crime, the burden of proof falls on you to give evidence for that crime. The person being accused does not have to prove something that did not happen. That's why we have the fifth amendment. The same logic follows with god. You claim the bible it true, therefore you must provide outside evidence, but you cannot. You are a sentient lugnut.
Atheism doesn't fall into true or false. It just says that there's no proof for god
In brief, the Creator of this world (God/Divinity) exists because this reality, with us into it, is not the result of nothing, or the result of no intelligence, because *from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes.*
That is why atheists renounce to elementary logic and to simple rationality intentionally when they believe that this reality has always existed without any intelligence involved.
*God is not bounded by what He has created,* but atheists, in their superficiality, do not want to recognize their limitations. For example, science will never be able to really know, at least, what a photon is (the magnification process being infinite). Regarding the Creator of this reality (the nature of God etc.), our power of comprehension will always be like how much the cups can think to understand the man who made them (comparison mentioned in the Bible), but *we have Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity, to be able to see God and what He expects from us.*
Therefore, those wise enough understand that *God is not bounded by time (not being bounded by what He has created), respectively He is eternal, always existed, which means that He was not created,* but atheists ignore, also, the other fact already mentioned by me about the nature of God that *our power of comprehension will always be like how much the cups can think to understand the man who made them". Anyway, they have no excuse because we have Jesus Christ, the human form of Divinity, to be able to understand.*
The rest can be read into my thread posted 22 hours ago, found easily after sorting the comments.
Yes, it is not a belief system like a religion.
GOOD observation!
No, atheism is the positive statement, that God does not exist. A-theism.
Otherwise it can not be distinguished from agnosticism.
“If we can’t go with a real theory, we go for a conspiracy theory.”
All animals in Gen 1:20-26 took their evolutionary descent form a single "kind"- Darwin got evolution form his Greek Bible - Genom meaning kind . This video explains it objectively - th-cam.com/video/dDN-4faodpY/w-d-xo.html
That depends on how you define the word "real"
@@TheWisdomRoom
kind,
is a nebulous, illdefined, meaningless unscientific term. hovind uses. kent hovind ...? you know ? unqualified renowned creationist moron.
kind, as a means to differentiate species is useless. ask some bona fide evolutionary biologists why its bogus. then you will learn something.
so you are a biblical evolutionist. lol do we assume you believe noah ?
lol an imaginary friend and an imaginary flood?. lol
@@TheWisdomRoom Youre tripping we all know that no gods exist, living or dead.
Anyone that says that they live by the bible is a complete and total liar.
@@TheWisdomRoom Lmmfao. . . You do know that the Greek bible was written in. . . Wait for it. . . GREEK.
An atheist can have charisma but since they are not selling snake oil, it is not a requirement. I still miss Mr Hitchens he was a great writer and thinker
And a great debater.
The only argument God believers have when they're told God is fake: " BuT HoW CaN SoMeThiNG CoMe OuT Of NoThiNg" Like bro your brain is too small just because we don't know how universe was made doesn't mean a sky daddy made it
@@justsomeguy4260 There's the issue right there, you just said it. "Sky Daddy". What? What is that? I don't believe in that, I never have. I believe in God. What is a sky daddy? You're making an argument with a false dichotomy.
@@onlyme2579 he's just paraphrasing though, you can replace sky daddy with whatever God or deity and it'll be the same. There is no single good reason to believe that there is any sort of God, until proven otherwise. Which hasn't happened so far.
@@stztstz1018 The same goes for the Theist listening to the arguments of an atheist. There's no evidence for me to believe your position. I will also point out, paraphrasing an incorrect perception, is still incorrect.
In Craig’s opening remarks, he starts out saying that the debate is about the existence of god, not about the social impact of religion. Then he goes on to talk about the impact of religion on the morality for society. Not a great start when you begin by contradicting your own argument…
It is entirely in keeping with Craig's general obliviousness in cognition that he cannot ascertain his own argument, which he plainly doesn't deem necessary. Craig is only interested in chewing the cud of his cowlike complacent assumption that he has already won, and that Hitchens is merely blabbing about inconsequential nonsense. WLC is almost sociopath level of cognitive inability.
Yeah not a strong point to make either using the rape argument when rape occurs more within the confines of religious organizations than anywhere else
I don't see how Craig contradicted himself there. All he said was that religion's impact on society was not the *topic* of the debate; he never stated that it was *irrelevant* to the topic of the debate.
@@ob4161 There is no point upon which Craig is NOT irrelevant. He addresses NONE of the actual arguments presented by Hitchens. Namely, that Hitchens emphasizes that Craig has no evidence to support any of his supernatural claims, no person has. Craig speaks from the point of view that he Pre-Supposes the Existence of "God", this is both irrelevant and non evidentiary and has no value. It is an unfalsifiable claim, therefore irrelevant to the business of providing what Craig claims is "properly basic".
Where does he do that aside from the Q&A? He was discussing objective moral values as a proof of God existence which is completely different. Get your facts straight
These are the only Hitchens debates where I just CANNOT get through the word salad of the person arguing against him
you're just too dumb to understand
The strategy Craig is using here is to speak a group of non sequitur logic in such a rapid succession that you cannot stop to think. As a result, you get his original presupposition, then lots of rapid word salad and then you're expected to believe that his conclusion follows from logical thinking.
If you pause after every step in his thought process, you'll soon find that there's no logic but a lot of non sequitur skips instead.
I detest using such strategy in this age-old debate form because there's no time to dismantle the gaps in his logic given the short amount of time and rigid form of the debate.
Yeah Craig is dismissing all arguments to contrary and has the hands down dumbest arguments I have every heard and I have a degree in religious studies. Just a mind numblinly stupid performance.
@@MikkoRantalainen In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Did you notice that you are just referring to text in man-made book called the Bible?
Do you have any *real evidence* that the supernatural stories in that book have any relation to reality?
(And before you say that it has *some parts* that match with reality, I'll say that e.g. Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code also has about 90% of the whole book describing things that perfectly match the reality but that doesn't make the whole book true story.)
"It seam to me you redefine Atheism to mean a sort of A-theism" Hitchens - "That's what it means"
1:19:30 btw
Left Alone Talking Except for the fact that Hitchens completely dodges the question of whether he is an atheist or not. Throughout the entire debate he argues in a completely agnostic way as opposed to addressing Craig’s arguments. It’s easy to pick out catchy quotes like that one, but Hitchens was outclassed here.
@@Gustavo-so7zk Craig doesn't even know the correct definition of atheism but somehow he "outclassed" Hitchens. Ok.
@@Gustavo-so7zk Hitchens does not dodge the question of whether he's an atheist. He's tackles it head on and, most importantly, explains what he means by atheist. Craig, on the other hand, is just playing games.
Appolo Hitchens thinks atheism is agnosticism, and it seems like you do too. The way these debates are structured the burden of proof is also on the atheist to prove the natural universe is better explained without a God, or to disprove God.
Remember when universities actually held (at the time) controversial debates without entitled children shouting down a speaker?
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
cool story, but I can be a good person and do all that without believing in god@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363no all praise be to Allah and the great profit Mohamed.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Sins are sins exclusively because God says they are and sins, and the Bible totally changes what sins are between the old/new testament. God is so perfect he can't even talk to his sinner creations, so he is going send his son to kill himself for us instead.🤣🤣🤣 Explain why god can't reveal his existence. The Bible says you can't know God, yet your punished eternally for not fearing and loving God. Again, explain why God wants humans to blindly believe.
😂@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363
"infinity isn't possible so therefore there is an infinite God!"
*WHAT?!*
It makes sense if you don't think about it :)
@@pidayrocks2235 NO it doesn't
What he meant was that since infinity of time mark the beggining is impossible hence there is an God who power is infinite created and started everything marked the beggining of time.
The Creator is not limited to the laws of His Creation.
Jaqua Shabazz
That’s because there is no creator and therefore no creation.
Did Dr Craig just sit doodling waiting for his turn to speak?
His words indicate he listened to absolutely nothing.
WLC always has been scripted out with total nonsense.
That and he has heard all the arguments multiple times before yet still either fails to, or decides to, misunderstand them!
It's because Hitchens didn't actually address any of the arguments for God nor addressed any of the problems atheists have with saying there is no God. So he just stated that fact repeatedly.
Hitchens just went directly to scare-crowing Christians and Christianity and kept going that way.
Just because people have a British accent doesn't make them smart.
@@standard-user-name It is not Hitchens's fault that theists can't comprehend things.
@@standard-user-name "Just because people have a British accent doesn't make them smart." LMAO. DINESH D'SOUZA is that you? LMAO
Low-bar Bill could not show nay evidence of god. Can you? LMAO
It feels almost surreal watching this in 2020; seeing a massive crowd like this where nobody is wearing a face mask.
Covid does'nt exist, debate that. Big pharma would not allow it
Gerry Rice People are allowed to argue about existence of covid. There just aren’t many who do because there is overwhelming evidence indicating the pandemic is occurring.
Beeeeeeta
jesus
yoUr IgNOrAncE iS oN anOThEr LevEl 🐓 🧽
The Executive Committee’s Board of Trustees asked Falwell to go on indefinite leave of absence on August 7, to which he agreed. Since that time, additional matters came to light that made it clear that it would not be in the best interest of the University for him to return from leave and serve as President. The Executive Committee met this morning and a conference call gathering of the full Board was planned for tomorrow.
Falwell responded by agreeing to resign immediately as President of Liberty University today but then instructed his attorneys to not tender the letter for immediate resignation. The Executive Committee will go forward with its meeting in the morning followed by the full Board.
Acting President Jerry Prevo said, “I call upon the University community and supporters to be in prayer for the University and for all its leadership, past, present and future, as we walk with the Lord through this stormy time of transition.”
Obedience is not morality.
Choosing "good" behavior is morality.
Ha? :)))
That sounds dangerous!!!
What is good and what is Baddddd...??
@@Honestandtruth007
That really is the question isn't it?
Sociologically speaking, good is that which benefits the community as a whole.
In Dungeons and Dragons, good is what provides the mot benefit to the party.
In Religion, good is whatever some man says some old book says will make his god happy.
In Politics, good is whatever gets you reelected.
In most cases, BAD is what benefits the individual at the expense of the community.
(in narcissistic schema like politics and religion, bad is that which benefits SOMEONE ELSE)
Everyone believes their own behavior to be “good.” Even Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Bin Laden, etc believed that they were doing good. Since they all chose what they believed to be “good” behavior, would you say their actions were moral?
@@EvanBartholomew
To them, obviously.
However, they would be wrong because Morals are determined by society. They are culturally constructed.
You are using the word "good" in a perfectly meaningless way.
Lots of respect to Biola University for hosting this debate. Thanks.
FilterYT 1v1 on rust?
cesar leon ass hole
It’s a shame their speaking professor is such a charlatan. This debate was nonsensical. Just like all Christian talking points. Religion really needs to understand the works are metaphorical. Clearly evolution takes place. Clearly there is no God that interacts with us. There is no proof for it at all.
@@NA-vz9ko but kudos for having a neutral moderator for once...
Nate McMillin
After watching it I only saw evidence provided by Craig and not hitchens
I have seen no proof tonight that Santa Claus doesn’t exist.
People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.
Only the evil=stupid people can think that, I quote: “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” because *each sin is causing harm (useless suffering) to others and/or to ourselves,* departing us from Divinity, from perfection. That is why we always have to strive to *_"Be perfect therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect"_* Matthew 5, 48 as Jesus Christ has said. Unfortunately, too many people have refused over history, and too many still refuse nowadays, to follow this.
@@filmeseverinbut also we shouldn’t have the hubris to judge others on their morality because “For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God's glorious standard.” -Romans 3:23. You think you know god. I think I have a moral personal code. I see many Christians cheer on Israel’s attacks on Gaza; attacks that kill more women and children than combatants. I thought killing children was a moral atrocity that we could all agree is wrong. I don’t judge all Christians based on the ones who overlook today’s atrocities but I think Christians should think twice before judging atheists morals.
*All evil has been done because of stupidity and the main/worst stupidity has always been to not listen by God/Jesus.*
In particular, for mankind, if ALL people (over history and nowadays) would have followed the main commandment from Jesus Christ, *besides to love / respect our Heavenly Father, to love / respect (care for) the other humans as we love / respect (care for) ourselves,* all the crimes and the tremendous useless suffering would have never happen.
Without *true belief* in God/Jesus, the following evil facts have happened, are happening and will happen, unfortunately:
- so many millions of people killed in wars and not only (following the killing of billions in the Third World War);
- so many trillions of dollars, euros, etc. wasted on nuclear, chemical, biological and conventional weapons, on armies, etc. only for killing and destruction... not used for: free better education for ALL, suitable jobs for ALL (without exploitation / slavery), healthier food for ALL, renewable energy, science, eradication of all diseases, better housing (resistant to earthquakes...), financing of useful inventions, recycling, reforestation etc.
- sadism, violence, dishonesty, vices, envy ... stupidity in general.
We should never fight against each other but only against our lack of useful knowledge / wisdom (for decreasing our ignorance), while loving / respecting each other as we love / respect ourselves, these being the main requests of God/Jesus.
Therefore, both science and proper education are very important to understand God's creation and what is better, regarding the human behavior, so that ALL of us can be not only happier in our ephemera life into this world (while we are still alive here) but also deserving, or at least allowable, for perpetual life in Heaven (after leaving this world).
@@filmeseverin You said it we need smart peoplelike you to preach, read the Bible and Pray
Things in this video, not possible to see in 2023:
1 - Everyone respect eachothers ideas without need to bully one another
2 - Get straight answers like yes or no
3 - putting some jokes on serious conversations actual releaf tension
4 - The audience are in fact listning two diferents ideas and reflecting on them, no matter wish side they are from
5 - The audience also respect silence
6 - conversations with more then 20 words and without "like", hum"or "so" put after every 2 or 3 words
debate bros have ruined debates, WLC however is a slippery little worm i this debate.
@KWH616 I don't think that is a fair assessment. *He does concede on certain points. He is arguing for a personal God as manifested in the image of Christ. He is very clear on that. He does put it on Hitchens on the objectivity of morality, something that Hitchens is unable to address with his worldview.
This was a good debate but there's better.
Regardless of is wright or wrong,there is a God,and can be proven by me
Also the Gentlemen who did not believe there is a God
I under stand his point,and he had a Good one, the christian/believers never proven that there is a God
If there is a God why the world is such a terrsble place, and he is 100% right
The problem we never start of wright,and no one question our direction,becsuse your Bible says be afraid and
Never question God
Thats our down foll
@@ivanferguson1574 yes, I was honestly surprised Hitchens never mentions the burden of proof being on a person who claims a thing to be true. In this case, the claim is that God exists, the claim is not made that God does not exist. Also Craig never provides any proof despite claiming to do so. His reasoning is entirely circular, ultimately always coming back to the necessity of faith and was also built around making an equal comparison of belief and non belief. I mean if I told you a dragon was circling Venus, you should ask me to prove it. And if I instead told you to prove me wrong, that would be an absurd request. Such is the request of Craig given to Hitchens. To not believe in a dragon circling Venus is not the same as saying "I know for certain that there is not a dragon circling Venus". And this was the distinction Hitchens made many times about Atheism being non-belief, and not a mindset of certainty God is not real. It is a mindset of thinking God is almost certainly not real, just like many other things are almost certainly unreal, like Unicorns, Dragons, Fairies, ghosts, ext.
"Of course you have free will, the boss insists upon it!" Hilarious
Freedom (respectively what we are doing with it; to not do evil, to not cause useless suffering...) is the most important thing for the Creator, because He is not a dictator, but the opposite. He has given us 100% freedom to choose: or to follow just our instincts (altered through the DNA changes done by the fallen angels), being stupid=evil because of the bad addictions etc. (as Satan wants to gain our immortal spirits in Hell), or to strive always to do good in any situation, to not cause useless suffering, to keep us as holly as we can by following His wisdom, received through the true prophets and mainly through Jesus Christ (the human form of Divinity), then perpetuated over generations through proper education from thousands of years ago.
Humans did not create this reality (this planet, this Universe...), we are just guests here. Our short lives here are mainly a kind of school for our immortal spirit. We have to do our best to sin no more, to never cause useless suffering to others and to ourselves, in order to "pass the final exam", to deserve Heaven.
*_"Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."_*
@@filmeseverin Is Gods will always carried out?
@“Jianni Rivas“ Try to read entirely and carefully ALL my messages posted on this video, if you are really interested about the truth. Here, in this earthly life, God has offered us 100% freedom but He has told us to not use it as a cover-up for evil. Unfortunately, as the fallen angels did/do, many stupid=evil humans don't do God's will. However, all will be judged 100% correctly to receive what we deserve according with how much good and how much evil we have done while living in the body, after God/Jesus will forgive what can be forgiven.
@@filmeseverin Freedom to make someone else's choice, on pain of never-ending torture. Religion takes away reason, logic and humanity and you're a great example.
@@stuartmiller7419 The Creator of this reality has told us: _"Woe to those who call good evil and evil good"_
Jesus Christ (the human form of Divinity) has advised humans to love (respect / care for) each other, as they love (respect / care for) themselves. Therefore, without true belief in God/Jesus, the following evil facts have happened, are happening and will happen:
- so many millions of people killed in wars and not only (following the killing of billions in the Third World War);
- the billions of poor people at the limit of subsistence versus the wealthiest (multi-billionaires in dollars, euros, etc. with the vices of money / fortune) and those millions too rich people (also with the vice of money / wealth), owning together so many trillions of dollars, euro ... undeserved money, of course, wasted on unnecessary luxury and / or just kept through banks, instead of being used for: free better education for ALL, suitable jobs for ALL (without exploitation / slavery), healthier food for ALL, renewable energy, science, eradication of all diseases, financing of useful inventions, recycling, etc.
- so many trillions of dollars, euros, etc. wasted on nuclear, chemical, biological and conventional weapons, on armies, etc. only for killing and destruction;
- sadism, violence, dishonesty, vices, envy ... stupidity in general.
Craig: "If humans can't prove it, it is more likely to be God than anything else." This logic simply does not compute.
the classical god of the gaps argument
thank you Mr Spock
That’s because your not smart enough to understand, it’s okay the world is full of people like you
@@jerodfarmer165 Hey man i'm really trying but it just doesn't make sense. BTW does god command you to insult and try to belittle people on the internet? Seems like a terrible way to spread the good word. Or maybe it's just more proof he doesn't exist. Also it's you're*
@@godofthegaps6741 the God of the apes is Darwin. Worship him.
Thanks goes out to everybody who showed up !!! Unfortunately the star of the show is a no show and therefore this event is being canceled 😅😅😅
I'm a Christian but absolutely love both these men. Hitechens may have been an athiest, but in a healthy society asking questions is important. Rip
So when the Christian guy talks about how highly improbable everything is to evolve this way and uses a bunch of massive numbers of improbability he's still saying there is that one chance and when you compare how big space is in every direction to at least what we can comprehend with our mind then we are that one and all those other failed ones. So basically saying it's extremely improbable is just saying that it is probable. Based on the vastness of space saying that is basically saying it's 100% probable out of just a huge huge huge amount of choices. Kind of how winning the Powerball is super improbable but someone does because that many people are trying. Just like that except on a grand scale. Hence the fact that all those other situations are just. It's just that in our little amount of time to evolve and to get smart we feel as if that is a long time based on our perception of time. Really if the first did evolve for billions of years and we evolved for Millions that would still be a short amount of time compared to greater things kind of how a piece of sand is huge to ants but tiny to a mountain time is just relative. We are way too smart for this amount of time we've developed thinking it's been a long time and that we are so important. There could be other intelligent creatures that have come and gone not only here but elsewhere and will continue to do so. Us not understanding things leads us to mystical ideas kind of how lightning and thunder probably used to seem like more than just atmosphere weather that we Now understand I think people just don't like to look at it this way because it makes our life seem meaningless but if you can get over that and learn to just enjoy it while treating others good and maybe having kids and teaching them the same and that's okay. Seems like Wars aren't fought over not believing a mystical belief. So yeah once again Christian apologetics saying it would be one out of one with however many thousands of zeros following it for this to happen natural just remember there is one with that many thousands of zeros out there of planets and stars here we are the one
Look up Bishop Robert Barrons talk about Hitchens. Very interesting. The Bishop loved Christopher and truly appreciated him and his work
Good to hear this and I respect your balance
@ronaldrrootiii6040
I'd disagree over the evolutionary time scales you imply. We evolved over approximately 4 billion years rather than millions of years because we are the product of all life that existed from day 1. Contrary to this evolution has no end product so when our star reaches its ability to fry this planet it most certainly won't ve human eyes that witness it it.
@@andyhanks7105 Jesus is coming
I’m proud to be an ex-Muslim although nobody around me knows and I’ve hidden it as to not get punished of course, I’m glad I could watch this debate, there have been others like Christoper hitches that have helped me realize what it means to think freely without the thought of receiving divine punishment for thinking this way, my mind and thoughts have become more well receiving of new ideas and logical thinking, it really does feel weird in a good way and I’m truly thankful. 😊😊
Anyway, people should know that not the labels that people put one another are important for the Creator of this reality (such as: Atheist, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu...) but *our deeds* instead, how we use the freedom He has offered, our free will, to strive always to do only good, to never cause useless suffering (any damage) to others and to ourselves.
*_"For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorance of foolish men. Live in freedom, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God."_* 1 Peter 2,15 - 16 That is why we have to be servants/lovers of perfection (100% goodness, wisdom, justice...).
As Jesus Christ has said: "Be perfect therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect" Matthew 5, 48
*_"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"_* Matthew
7, 21-23
After a finite number of years we all will leave this world and will receive what we deserve. According to the following two testimonies (and many hundreds more available online; even I had a true NDE) all evil we do, which cannot be forgiven by Divinity, is sending us to hell, instead of Heaven:
"Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life - Pt 1";
"Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life - Pt 2";
"Man Sees Unthinkable Horrors in Hell - Christians Being Tortured! (Mario Martinez)".
Therefore, the believing of the truth revealed by God/Jesus will help / convince / determine... us to always strive to do only good for the rest of our earthly life (and to always regret deeply our bad deeds, to sin no more), to be easier for us at the Judgment, to go into Heaven before many others, to never taste hell, to be more loved by Divinity, but *ALL humans will be judged for their deeds* (as seen into those videos mentioned).
*_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10
I wish only well to everyone and as much wisdom as possible for everyone! To be saved!
Well done, it must be tough when surrounded by religious bigots. Keeping asking questions when it is safe to do so!
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@snonegoodbutgodjohn363 God is perfect in everything and you should understand that many people have never done many of the sins you use to mention into your messages. God knows exactly each human's sins and what can be forgiven for each of us, indeed, through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
In order to understand one of the most important aspects of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ (the human form of Divinity), anyone can read the following parable:
A very straight emperor has lost a battle because of a traitor. That traitor was proved to be even his mother, who was the being he loved the most. Known for his honesty and fairness, the king had to judge and punish his mother in the same way as on any other person, and the punishment for high treason consisted of 100 lashes. When soldiers went to his mother to take her to apply the punishment, the king came down from the throne and placed himself in his mother's place, suffering all the 100 lashes.
Thus, in the sacrifice of Jesus, God is that righteous king, He, descended from the throne to bear the punishment, is Jesus, the traitor who had to be punished being us, humans.
Sacrifice is the only way for perfection to turn the ignorant ones from their using of freedom for evil intentionally, because only dictators use force, but Divinity is the opposite of a dictator.
After a finite number of years we all will leave this world and will receive what we deserve. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10
According to the following two testimonies (and many hundreds more available online; even I had a true NDE) all evil we do, which cannot be forgiven by Divinity, is sending us to hell, instead of Heaven:
"Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life - Pt 1";
"Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life - Pt 2";
"Man Sees Unthinkable Horrors in Hell - Christians Being Tortured! (Mario Martinez)".
Therefore, the believing of the truth revealed by God/Jesus will help / convince / determine... us to always strive to do only good for the rest of our earthly life (and to always regret deeply our bad deeds, to sin no more), to be easier for us at the Judgment, to go into Heaven before many others, to never taste hell, to be more loved by Divinity, but *ALL humans will be judged for their deeds* (as seen into those videos mentioned).
I wish only well to everyone and as much wisdom as possible for everyone! To be saved!
55:28 Geez, I'm watching this on a mobile in vertical mode, and just realized that the podium nicely lines up with the time slider and makes it look like there's a thousand of ads on the video
😂😂😂😂
Thank god for intelligence
@@ziodav7490 What?
Rationalist how did we become intelligent beings?
To the Theist.”You are saying nothing and you are saying it too loudly”
Regarding the superficial ones, the unbelievers of the truth about/from God/Jesus, the most important truth, only those too deceived will not sort the comments to read *entirely and carefully* all my demonstrations (which prove their errors) just to keep their deceiving. Furthermore, only those who renounce intentionally to elementary logic cannot understand my simple, clear and undeniable demonstrations.
@@filmeseverin Christianity is fake. It stole pretty much everything from other earlier religions and the same way Islam did with small modifications.
The is no evidence of a global flood, there is no evidence that jesus as the son of god or Moses ever existed, and the resurrection was stolen from Julius Caesar's resurrection. No resurrection. Snakes and donkeys do not talk. Genesis is full of contradictions. Earth is not 6000 years old.
ALL THOSE ARE LIES. People now know and leaving the religion for what it is CULT.
We are lucky to live in this age where debates et al can be recorded for us to view & re view at our leisure .All though I had never met C.Hitchens in life ,I do how ever miss him being on Earth in person, RIP
Leonardo's Truth I was going to say the very same thing!!!
Leonardo's Truth ah, a judgemental Christian.
Pretty typical really, Jesus orders don’t apply to you do they?
Prepare to spend an eternity gnashing your teeth.
@Leonardo's Truth I think belief in Hell proves Christians are maroons. On the one hand, they are condemning the atrocities of dictators, on the other, they are calling a being -good God, who tortures sentient beings for all eternity.
@@BigVK19 one thing. Not interjecting my opinion, but hell is simply a place without God, therefore without good. However, even saying that God tortured humans is still not good not only because of the power of Him but also the lack of an objective independent standard.
If you agree with Hitchens' worldview then he's not resting anywhere, he just "isn't" (period, full stop) anymore. So why do you hope he rests in any fashion, which assumes he still has consciousness in some way?
I don't think Craig understands the fact that just because we don't have an explanation right now, doesn't mean there isn't one
Calling God of the gaps on metaphysics makes no sense. WLC made a perfectly logical argument that you should go with the best supported hypothesis until another better one takes its place, so unless you deny science on the grounds that we might find even better answers later, then you don’t have a point.
Also, Craig legit said absence of ev isn’t ev of absence, so I’m sure he’s well aware
@@whatsinaname691 the problem with that supported hypothesis is that, in essence, it doesn't differ from any other religion in the world, I mean, anyone can say for instance say "here is the book of Michael, Michael says the world was created by him, Michael exists, thus it is the best explanation and we should go with it".
Having an "argument" or as you said "hypothesis" is simply not enough, specially when such arguments makes such presumptions claims with so little evidence, Hitchens said something along the lines in the beginning.
Also, there's really no pressure at all to choose a religion when in fact we don't know the facts, that's actually rushed acting
@@whatsinaname691 Every God/Goddess has been disproven by other religious people.
That's basically the perfect summary of what Atheistic Faith is... You can't say that the irony of your words is non-existent.
@@MattanzaMafiaFedora Your faith has already been disproven by more devout religious folks.
“We’re a Christian establishment and wanted to debate whether it’s reasonable to believe in god.”
If nothing else, I respect you for inviting the equivalent of an atheist howitzer against your standard issue rifle apologist.
Shows some real balls
Curious.
I hear argument on argument from Craig, but they are never refuted nor is there given an argument for the antithesis.
@@sak415 Craig didn't make any arguments, he made unsubstantiated claims. Hitchens can't refute an un-refutable claim. If I told you I had an invisible $2 bill in my pocket and told you to refute it, you'd never be able to. I could just say that $2 bills exist, while true, does nothing to substantiate the claim that a piece of money can be invisible.
Ignorant with balls
@@sak415 what "argument" did you hear from Craig?
@@less2worryabout the cosmological argument for instance.
To refute it you need to show that one of the premises is wrong.
Or that the conclusion does not logically follow from the premises.
An emotional response wont do.
William Craig keeps moving the goalpost around so fast I’m gonna get whiplash.
Atheists should have realized at least that the perfection of mathematics, which is the "language" used to "write" this reality (every shape in this 3D space/world having a corresponding equation that generates it) is one of the main proofs of the perfect Intelligence who has created everything, called God/Divinity.
Generally, those from such videos, exposed to my clear and undeniable demonstrations but who still want to remain atheists, are ignoring intentionally the simple fact that *from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes,* hoping that this reality is the result of no intelligence, in other words that God does not exist, only to escape the responsibility for their deeds, to not be Judged by God/Jesus after the leaving of this world, but they are in error. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10
My simple and undeniable demonstrations can be found quite easily after sorting the comments, for example (at least), my thread posted few minutes ago, starting with "In brief...".
@@filmeseverin Atheists realised you have no brain left in your head. There is no evidence of global flood, there is no evidence of any resurrections, no zombies either. Earth is not 6000 years old. Earth does not have a dome above it. Bible is full of magical things.
@@filmeseverin Hogwash
Only those too deceived will not sort the comments to read *entirely and carefully* all my demonstrations (which prove their errors) just to keep their deceiving. Furthermore, only those who renounce intentionally to elementary logic cannot understand my simple, clear and undeniable demonstrations.
@@filmeseverin If they’re so simple, clear, and undeniable, why make them search through the comments? Lay it out.
If only our presidential debates could be like this. Super organized, well planned, mutual respect to both sides and both sides bringing excellent points to the audience for them to make their own decisions. Very well done.
@@CosmoPhiloPharmaco Not so fast Doctor Schrodinger, Hitchens brought the only indisputable fact to the debate - 99% of all species have gone extinct.
A contradiction of Genesis and therefore a contradiction of omnipotent and omniscient creation. Genesis isn't just pre-scientific ignorance it's legitimate reality to a fundamentalist, which btw Craig is not.
Craig is trying to circumvent biblical dogma and suggest (with misquotes and misuse of scientific data) that a good god is consistent with imperfection. Craig's view on the problem of evil is borderline morally corrupt.
My messages are deleted (right after I post them), as/like a censorship against the truth is happening from time to time.
As there are billions of cells required for us to be able to live this earthly life, in the same way there are required billions of galaxies for the intelligent life to be created intentionally to have 100% freedom, like humans on Earth (think how wonderful the Creator is, the opposite of a dictator, to create this reality in this way, with 100% freedom). He has told us to live in freedom but to not use freedom as a cover-up for evil. Unfortunately, Satan, the fallen angels, respectively their tools in this reality - the evil=stupid humans - have used (are using) the freedom offered by God to do evil.
Most atheists do not know *the Parable of the weeds,* which implies that the fallen angels, ruled by Satan, have altered this world, the DNA... (even the Bible),... making the carnivores, the parasites, the viruses, bad bacteria etc.... all the havoc... all the killings, so that those who do not want to follow God's perfection into their life, to be able to make excuses to not believe the truth.
Initially, all insects, animals etc. were feeding only with plants (plants products, such as fruits, nectar, seeds etc.).
@@filmeseverin Exactly as I said in my previous message, the "filmeseverin" user is repeatedly doing the same thing: He is spreading lies about me and trolling the same debunked cut and pastes of lies.
Regardless of the continuous lying and false accusations, from such deniers who have no argument to support their denial, the truth is only one:
filmeseverin is a lying troll.
To the readers you will notice how his broken English comes and goes. You will also notice he pretends to be from a European communist country yet posts on an east coast of America schedule. You will also notice that he responds to his own comment and even edits his cut and pastes and changes nothing. He does this so no notification shows up to who he is responding to. You will also notice that this Liar will post multiple posts to get the comment count to end in a 5 or 0 like lying trolls do. This Liar also likes his own comments like a troll. Every thing about this Liar is fake.
There is no need to post any more arguments against his lies because it has been done over and over and he just ignores them and posts one of these cut and pastes. The only thing left to do is ask why.
So here it is for the more than the hundredth time. Why do you keep posting these lies?
@@filmeseverin You forgot to like one of your own comments, lying troll.
More people should learn to share their views like this. Really enjoyed the respect and dignity these men showed each other.
It was over before it started Hitchens . Said in the first few minutes
God there every where.
He is a believer I noticed he brought his Ray Comfort bananas for Dessert.
No ad hominem insults, although Dr. Craig posited views that atheists don't have, and then embroidered them.
I must agree even though i cannot stand craig and his dishonest ass lol.
@@scottblack7182 ikr. I cant stand the sound of his high pitched, sqeaky voice.
@Rapid Dragon335 Everyone has cancer - it's just some people it multiplies out of control.
God is omnipotent. But he really needs me to give him $20.
I donated $ 5,000 to the Vatican so I can have guaranteed a magical eternal happy place after death
@@godofthegaps6741 :/
wow he asked me for about tree fiddy
@Helena Baxter yep, cant afford my house rent anymore.
Still worth it tho
What A Clueless/ Pathetic Comment.....
..... Such no brainner comment
Craig's "moral argument" is hoplessly circular. It's his least serious argument (with the exception of his "Holy Spirit" argument which, he concedes, isn't an argument at all``). According to Craig, we can know that God exists because objective morals exist. Seriously?
And how do we know obejctive morality exists? More precisely, what makes morality objective? Well....because it comes from God. And around we go!
i went to sleep with my auto play on and woke up to this
😀
lol me too
Debate like this in university now is so rare.
Actually it's not. That's just a silly narrative pushed by online click-bait merchants.
You sound senile.
Actually it is. They are arguing over genitals now.
@@sandieovajness8056😂😂 true
Not fully true. My college just had one of these not too long ago on creationism vs evolution.
Saying these debates don’t happen is just simply not true.
We need more discourse like this.
Two perfect gentlemen, diametrically opposed to one another in perspective, having an emotionless, rational discussion. Where do we see this anymore in modern American culture?
Very true, very very true.😞
Do you think that civility happened here. It is certaiunly true that few fucks were uttered, but I am contunually astounded by WLC's dishonest debate tactics.
@@itsjustameme I think they are only dishonest in that he well knows they are tactics and not valid points. So, yes,. Unfortunately, they are as you say, he used tactics. What was really interesting to me was observing by his varied applause lines, how indoctrinated that portion of the audience already is. I've almost given up wasting my time on debates in this field and just go straight to the words of the master speaker, Mr. Hitchens directly. It is much more illuminating as I cannot debate WLC myself.
@@govindagovindaji4662 I have watched enough debates with him to think I could wipe the floor with him given that he usually follows more or less the same script every time. With a bit of preperation I believe I could make some ore written statements and responses that would seriously throw him off his script.
BTW - if you think he is bad here you should see how he treats people on the internet when he choose to engage them. When he know that most of his followers are only going to be reading his side of the exchange he goes completely overboard with misrepressenting his opponents. TH-camr TheoreticalBullshit had an epic exchange with him where he was repeatedly beaten but went out of his way to pretend this was not so.
@@itsjustameme Thanks! I'll see if it's still here & cringe-watch, lol. I like that fitting name "Theoretical BS"
It was an honor and a privilege to see Hitchens debate when he was alive. Now, thank that heavenly teapot that Bertrand Russell invented that I have these videos to watch over and over. Also, thank you Mr. Richard Dawkins for keeping me sane surrounded by all these theists. It's a madhouse out here!!!
You just need to sort the comments and read for real as many of my messages as you can (at least the recent ones, posted over the last few days), to not be in error anymore.
@@filmeseverin "You just need to sort the comments and read for real > We know, Freshy., you are as dumbdumb as a rock.
Why did your god commit many genocides?
Why did your god command Moses and David to commit genocides?
Will you kill your own child when your god asks?
Why do you worship this moral monster?
@@filmeseverin Nobody cares about your delusional message.
Why does your religion hate everyone who does not subscribe to your ideology?
Will you kill your own child when your god asks?
@@filmeseverin In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY
Are you that scared to debate a theist?
_1:18:58__ "We now enter the period of cross examination, which ... allows the questioner to pose, and the answerer only to answer and not repeat the question or to dodge."_
If only all TV interviews would adhere to this basic format.
In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.
I just looked up Christopher Hitchens as I’ve never heard of him prior to watching this debate and see that he passed away not too long after this. RIP, a great intellectual gone from this world
A treasure trove of Hitchens on content awaits you on TH-cam. Enjoy!
@Andrew. Yes, it's sad that he's gone but he was not an intellectual at all, throughout his life he's been living subjectively to his own opinions and theories rather than living objectively to crucial facts. He will use his own beliefs to deceive other people from the Truth of God and at the end of his deathbed, he still didn't repent for the sins that he has committed. Yes, it's sad that he passed away but it's even more sad now that he's facing the Judgment of God with unrepented sin. All we can do now is Pray for his family that they may change their immoral ways and submit themselves to the Lord.
@@ladshawn4534 Did the Magical Sky-Daddy punish the naughty dead man for daring to disagree with you!?
@@donthesitatebegin9283 No. But The Holy Father does punish those who commits crime and doesn't do anything to change their ways. Especially those who knows that they are in the wrong but continues to do wicked actions everyday becuase of the ludicrous belief that we literally came out of magical dust from nowhere and therefore we should have no consequences for our wrongdoings becuase it's in our nature.
@@ladshawn4534 "Daddy-issues, wishful-thinking and an overwhelming fear of death" - Freud's diagnosis of the source of your Holy Father.
Why am I capable of listening to Hitchens argument better than Craig? Honestly, it's as if he isn't listening at all and just keeps repeating the same statements over and over.
Craig is trained in classical debate, and is following the rules and strictures of formal debate. He makes points, and when they are not refuted, he remakes them. Hitchins is remarkably intelligent and makes something interesting points. However, he is not following the normal rules/order of debate. In "scoring" this as a debate, Dr. Craig wins. However, Hitchins makes some very interesting points.
@Breakin-Bad I do have an opinion on the matter. Which you can call bias if you will.
But I was really trying to speak objectively in terms of debate. I've scored a bunch of them as a judge, and I participated in some as well. In fact, I participated in the Illinois State Debate Tournament, just like Dr. Craig (he won, but I did get a top 10). And those debate tournaments were all cross-x, where you had to switch sides every single round (for and against). So I do think I am capable of a somewhat objective analysis of a debate regardless of personal predilection.
Mr. Hitchins is incredibly clever. I don't think he was trying to "win a debate", as much as trying to convince people that it was reasonably rationale and OK to embrace his position. Mission accomplished. Dr. Craig was trying to convince as well, but he functioned much more within the constructs of formal debate rules. And that is why I thought he "won", not because I may agree with his position.
The only reason I even commented was because several folks criticized Dr. Craig for re-iterating points previously made. That is what you do in a debate. He would be awarded for that with an impartial debate judge, not criticized.
@@kevinrees698 Try objectively analyzing Christopher's last name.
Guilty as charged. My apologies to the late Mr. Hitchens and his family.
I work with a Mr. Hitchings every day, and made a typo.
Nothing else I can add in light of the thoroughly reasoned arguments presented by yourself and Mr. Bad.
Have a good evening (or morning).
If someone doesn't refute your argument, and you expected to be answering refutations, might as well repeat them in case the idiot forgot them and thats why he didn't respond to them the last time.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"- Epicurus
If his argument was that strong, there wouldn't be so many theísts...
Here is not Heaven. This short earthly life is a school and exam for our immortal souls (us), for those who did not listen by the Creator to understand the value of "light" without experiencing the "darkness".
This reality has been created intentionally so that freedom to be 100% offered, God rewarding accordingly the free choices/deeds *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10
The problem is with those who have used (are using) their freedom for doing evil on purpose. That is why it is not easy to fight continuously with what Satan has done to this world (carnivores, parasites, viruses, bad bacteria... the so called _"weeds"_ in Matthew 13:24-43) and to ourselves ... because *until our physical death we fight with the works of the fallen angels and of their tools, the evil=stupid people, the consequences of evilness = stupidity.*
@@Tarphir Ohh... Theists, who enjoy to be brainwashed, unreasonable, and unrealistic. No thanks!
@@Tarphir Epicurus's statement is extremely strong, reasonable, realistic, and (overall) straight forward. I mean... Only if you're a fool, who enjoys listening and believing in things that are unreasonable, unrealistic, and (overall) that doesn't make no sense. No thanks! I'll listen and believe in wise people like Epicurus and other philosophers. Than to be a fool for the rest of my life.
For example, here's another strong, reasonable, realistic, and wise quote:
"God is all-powerful. God is perfectly good. Evil exists. If God exists, there would be no evil. Therefore God does not exist."- Epicurus
So true! Yet... A fool would still disagree.
CLEARLY! There are strong facts (every where---billions and billions of years worth) of: war, slavery, greed, death, crime, terrorism, destruction, pollution, poverty, hunger, misery, rape, sicknesses, and sacrifices, etc. Yup! I ain't no fool! I see clearly!
And still yet... People still be saying "god's all loving", "god's all good", "god's all perfect", "god's all-powerful", etc. First of all, a loving, good, perfect, and all-powerful "god", wouldn't have made EVIL in the first place. That's why I strongly agree with, Epicurus. However, I forgot... Only a fool would disagree. No thanks! I stand with philosophers, who are reasonable, realistic, wise, and (overall) make sense.
Oh yeah... We can't forget. And even after this loving, good, perfect, and all-powerful "god" messes up and makes "sin". Its only (DISGUSTING) solution is to send down a person down from the sky. Have that person be born. And then, later on in life, be sacrificed? Just to "save" the souls of humanity on earth. So that humanity can be given a chance, after they've die, to enter a heavenly place. That's just WEIRD!!
In conclusion, I will continue to believe in my own belief that involves the Universe, Earth, Nature, Humanity, and Myself. No superstitions. Only stuff that can be proven. And just having good morals, learning from good people and everything that's around me, working hard with good intentions, giving a helping hand when it's needed, and (overall) doing my absolute BEST! And not doing it because of some bible or some fake superstition(s).
*All evil has been done because of stupidity and the main/worst stupidity has always been to not listen by God/Jesus.*
In particular, for mankind, if ALL people (over history and nowadays) would have followed the main commandment from Jesus Christ, *besides to love / respect our Heavenly Father, to love / respect (care for) the other humans as we love / respect (care for) ourselves,* all the crimes and the tremendous useless suffering would have never happen.
Without *true belief* in God/Jesus, the following evil facts have happened, are happening and will happen, unfortunately:
- so many millions of people killed in wars and not only (following the killing of billions in the Third World War);
- so many trillions of dollars, euros, etc. wasted on nuclear, chemical, biological and conventional weapons, on armies, etc. only for killing and destruction... not used for: free better education for ALL, suitable jobs for ALL (without exploitation / slavery), healthier food for ALL, renewable energy, science, eradication of all diseases, better housing (resistant to earthquakes...), financing of useful inventions, recycling, reforestation etc.
- sadism, violence, dishonesty, vices, envy ... stupidity in general.
We should never fight against each other but only against our lack of useful knowledge / wisdom (for decreasing our ignorance), while loving / respecting each other as we love / respect ourselves, these being the main requests of God/Jesus.
Therefore, both true/useful science and proper education are very important to understand God's creation and what is better, regarding the human behavior, so that ALL of us can be not only happier in our ephemera life into this world (while we are still alive here) but also deserving, or at least allowable, for perpetual life in Heaven (after leaving this world).
1:19:30
WLC: “you seem to be redefining atheism as though to mean a-theism...”
Hitchens: “that’s what it means...”
😂
It's a soft a
yeah that was pretty funny
TheCosmicWarrior
Well, to quote the dummy (albeit in a different context):
I’m still waiting to hear your argument.
TheCosmicWarrior
And yet the “drunk “still ran rings round all of his opponents. It doesn’t say much for them does it ?
@@undrkvr99 Its a negating a coming from Greek.
Thoroughly enjoyed watching and listening to this discourse. Rest in Peace Mr Christopher Hitchens.
I doubt he is resting in peace. He probably desperately wishes to come back to earth for a different biography, but it's too late now
@@sumatra_7174nope not happening
@@sumatra_7174 Jesus loves Christopher more than he loves us and he is not being tormented anywhere if you claim to be person of God your consciousness wont go out of its way to constantley conceptualize misery but it will instead create and propose mercy for all things. or maybe you are a catholic which basically is satanism in that case go on keep professing your santeria voodo cult.
@@sumatra_7174 Probably ? Life and death is a mystery , we do not know whereor what he is now . We all go back to molecules ...
@@sumatra_7174How very loving of you
Near the end Craig argues that God's moral reason for creating a world where people suffer terribly at random is because this may be the kind of world needed for their salvation.
Earlier he was arguing that life itself is a journey to earn your salvation.
Not only does the idea that people are intentionally born by God to suffer horrendously and then die of malnutrition or warfare in some countries seem like repulsive insanity to me, but how is God allowing someone who dies 5 minutes after childbirth to "earn their salvation"?
These arguments are complete nonsense.
Then what of the Canaanite children and Mennonite children who were torn from their mothers’ stomachs and literally dashed on the rocks? Where does their salvation lie? Or was that the drive-thru version of achieving salvation? Or as Hitchens mentioned, the at least 98,000 years of children who never knew of The Word, including their parents and families. Where lies their salvation? The issues arises in the fact that if god exists, he has the ability have every single person be aware of his existence and message yet, as human history has shown us, only a select few have had that privilege it seems. Any subsequent punishment for the charge of apostasy then is inherently and ridiculously immoral and unbecoming of any being that deserves respect.
Plus, depending on who you believe, Jesus wasn’t god. You would have to reconcile that verse with Yahweh’s decision to kill every firstborn son in Egypt. Did Yahweh just get it wrong the first go-around?
SerMattzio Btw I say the above despite me thinking that Craig, while having the opposite view to mine, pretty decisively won this debate.
@@surplusrevenge2013 Interesting assessment! Personally I think he got annihilated. He shouts very loudly but ultimately every one of his logical arguments is incredibly flawed IMO - and he makes many self-contradictory arguments too. If Hitchens had any weaknesses in the debate it was that he didn't engage him directly on these enormous flaws.
@@surplusrevenge2013 He simply repackaged the same old arguments in new fallacies
RIP Christopher. We miss you.
He has been in error regarding the truth about/from God/Jesus, the most important truth. The true believers know that it is not right to benefit by this world like taken for granted, with no Creator who owns it and who will judge our deeds into / with His creation (by the way, I have proved God's existence by using only elementary logic).
The others, who don't want to accept the truth, are like those who live in "a house" (this world) but do not want both to follow the rules of the Builder / Owner (they denying Him) and to pay "the rent" (which means, in brief, to strive always only for good, for perfection, to never do evil, especially to not do evil intentionally) so that in the end, when they will face the Builder/Owner of the house (at the Judgment), they will regret their incorrect and undeserved using of the house (their earthly life).
Atheists should have realized by now at least that the perfection of mathematics, which is the "language" used to "write" this reality (every shape in this 3D space/world having a corresponding equation that generates it) is one of the main proofs of God's perfection.
Generally, those from such videos, exposed to my clear and undeniable demonstrations but who still want to remain atheists, are ignoring intentionally the simple fact that *from no intelligence involved, no intelligence comes,* hoping that this reality is the result of no intelligence, in other words that God does not exist, only to escape the responsibility for their deeds, to not be Judged by God/Jesus after the leaving of this world, but they are in error. *_"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad."_* 2 Corinthians 5, 10
My simple and undeniable demonstrations can be found quite easily after sorting the comments.
@@filmeseverin Your argument is a pathetic blend of delusion and self-righteous ignorance. The fact that you think elementary logic somehow "proves" God's existence is laughable-by that logic, you could "prove" anything you want. Mathematics describes patterns, it doesn’t support your petty deity. Claiming atheists reject belief only to avoid judgment is an insult to intelligence; people live moral lives because they *choose* to, not out of fear of some imaginary judge. You’re using ancient superstition and poor reasoning to justify your narrow, outdated worldview while dismissing any evidence that doesn’t fit your little bubble. Your "proof" is nothing more than the noise of an uneducated mind clinging to comfort in ignorance.
@@filmeseverin I stopped reading when you said "true believers"... 🙄
@@socratesbandeira The false believers are the "wolves in sheepskin".
Only those too deceived will not sort the comments to read *entirely and carefully* all my demonstrations (which prove their errors) just to keep their deceiving. Furthermore, only those who renounce intentionally to elementary logic cannot understand my simple, clear and undeniable demonstrations.
@@filmeseverin In case you don't know, the "stopped reading" thing is a social media thing... I've actually read your disrespectful comment on someone's RiP post, but your "undeniable logic" is so "simple" I couldn't even see it!!
The worst thing that comes out of these debates is the comment section. smh
😆😂 nooooo they're fun...
I agree, I think it’s partly because long form texting is not actual conversation. Also many folks just enjoy trying to win arguments. Most are not skeptics motivated to sincerely seek truth or compassionate believers motivated to show love in my opinion.
@@vincer7824 most are just trolls
Ultimate Dude
yeah maybe you’re right hahaha
@@vincer7824 so are you assuming, everyone who has seek god, and has not found him/her/it, is just "not sincere enough?" Is that your broad generalization?
"You redefine 'atheism' to mean a sort of 'a-theism.'" Best quote of the evening.
Every time he sai “ah-theism” I wanted to scream. I mean, I DID scream.
@@billmelaterplease Same. Or any time he said something along the lines of "atheism isn't true."
A-theism has a literal meaning tho lol
@Nicholas Kayban I wasn't aware that it has a separate meaning, no. I can't find proof that it's even a word. What's the meaning?
@@nikelover76 If you redefined gravity in a scientific debate to "electro-magnetic force" you are just wasting everyones time
I love how respectful they were to each other. I really enjoyed every minute of this debate
That, for real, was the most valuable thing present on this debate, all along.
th-cam.com/video/_dsTkXFXQbU/w-d-xo.html
It's a crap debate. They generalise and just go on and on.
@@johnkuipers7829 . Well that’s not the point
@Rapid Dragon335 I hope you understand that being smart has nothing to do with getting cancer. From a christian myself
The honest case for Christian theism is this: "It may not be rational, but I believe it anyway because it gives me hope and makes my life better".
If a Christian apologist made THAT case, I could at least respect the honesty -- as opposed to Craig's sophistry and sleazy salesmanship.
Agree. In order for religious apologists to appeal to rationally minded atheists and skeptics they have to try and talk the language of science, but they're just not cut out for it.
@@seantaylor4095 The serious and honest atheists have already the correct answers to all their matters to not be in error anymore. For the beginning, a good start is to read *entirely and carefully* my simple and undeniable demonstrations from my thread posted about 20 hours ago.
@@filmeseverin Believers in Jesus belong to a church. What Christian denomination do you belong to? Imposter! Deceiver!
Every honest reader definitely knows to ignore you and your lies. Why do Romanians lie so much?
There is no intelligence in you for sure. Every honest reader sees it. Stop lying.
Yeah, even at the end of the debate Craig started giving a sermon because he knew it was time to go for those embedded, indoctrinated feelings of the religious college students.
@@seantaylor4095 In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.
I think the guy in the audience who asked the first question just REALLY wanted someone to say it was ok for him to blow his cat.
It kinda felt like he was double checking. Because why would you be concerned about such a thing, right? I mean if any of them said it was ok, then what are you going to do with that answer?
No he was exposing that there is an objective moral truth for believers
Indeed
"to say it was ok for him to blow his cat."
Well, I do that with my dogs, but only when they are wet after a bath.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 🎵 Welcome to Biola University, hosting a debate on God's existence.
01:15 👋 Distinguished guests, students initiated the debate with acclaimed leaders William Lane Craig and Christopher Hitchens.
03:34 🎓 Biola's Master of Arts in Christian Apologetics is highlighted as a degree program.
06:04 📚 Featured books by Hitchens and Craig are available for signing; DVDs and CDs of debates and lectures are also promoted.
08:35 🏀 Theists and atheists gather for a debate moderated by Hugh Hewitt.
13:19 🎙️ William Lane Craig begins with arguments for theism, starting with the cosmological argument.
19:05 🌌 Craig presents the teleological argument, highlighting the fine-tuning of the universe.
25:24 🧐 Craig introduces the moral argument, asserting the connection between God's existence and objective moral values.
26:20 🤨 Objective morality debate: Craig argues that atheistic view lacks objective moral values; Hitchens contends moral values are innate and evolved.
27:48 🙌 Resurrection of Jesus: Craig presents historical case for Jesus' resurrection; Hitchens challenges need for divine explanation.
31:08 🤔 Immediate experience of God: Craig argues for direct experience of God as a basis for belief; Hitchens emphasizes skepticism and doubt.
35:48 🧐 Presuppositionalism vs. evidentialism: Hitchens critiques the distinction between presuppositionalists and evidentialists; questions the evidentiary basis of religious claims.
46:13 😇 Faith over evidence: Craig asserts primacy of faith over evidence based on the Holy Spirit's witness; Hitchens challenges this prioritization.
50:19 🌌 Physicists are uncertain about the origins of the universe, viewing it from an unimaginable distance in both space and time.
51:16 🌀 Challenges to the assumption of a designing god include the question of pre-existing material, infinite regress, and the existence of destruction and nothingness in the universe.
54:32 🤝 The existence of atheism isn't strongly disputed; Hitchens emphasizes the lack of need for special terms for disbelief in other mythical beings.
57:54 🕊️ The naturalist's adherence to evolution might be dogmatic due to the absence of intelligent design in their worldview.
01:00:15 🪄 Theism and deism are distinct; Dr. Craig's arguments build a cumulative case for Christian theism based on deductive reasoning.
01:04:56 🌍 Atheism's central assertion is that no evidence supports a supernatural realm; Hitchens criticizes the inconsistency of creation timing and widespread suffering.
01:06:25 🧬 The debate revolves around the question of whether belief in God is warranted based on evidence, immediate experience, or psychological grounds.
01:13:42 🧐 Christopher Hitchens challenges believers to name an ethical action/statement they could make that he couldn't. He points out that no advantage arises from divine sanction in morality.
01:14:41 😬 Hitchens highlights the negative aspects of religion, referencing genital mutilation, suicide bombings, genocidal injunctions in the Old Testament, and asserts that morality can't be derived from the supernatural.
01:15:08 🤝 Hitchens discusses the Golden Rule's limitations due to subjective interpretation, and emphasizes that morality arises from shared human empathy and societal evolution rather than religious origins.
01:16:36 💭 Hitchens debates free will and its connection to religion, discussing different perspectives, including Calvinism and Islam, and asserts that the wish for unfreedom is inherent in religion.
01:19:16 🤔 Craig questions Hitchens about his atheistic beliefs, distinguishing different forms of non-theism and asking whether he affirms God's non-existence or simply withholds belief.
01:20:44 🧐 Hitchens clarifies his view on atheism and discusses his preference for non-belief, expressing agnosticism as evasive and stating that he finds arguments for God unconvincing.
01:24:11 🤯 Craig discusses the concept of miracles and exorcisms attributed to Jesus, illustrating divine authority and pointing out the radical nature of Jesus' claims.
01:27:42 😇 Hitchens questions Craig about the legitimacy of miracles and resurrection, and the evidence required for claims of extraordinary events in religious narratives.
01:30:38 🙌 Craig acknowledges the possibility of false religious preaching, Hitchens highlights the potential for wickedness associated with preaching false religions, and the debate shifts towards denominational differences within Christianity.
01:32:55 🕊️ Craig concludes that there have been no compelling reasons presented to affirm atheism and asserts that positive atheism lacks evidence.
01:33:26 😇 William Lane Craig discusses how God prepared humanity for the advent of Christ, and how those who lived before Christ were covered by his atoning sacrifice, judged based on their response to general revelation.
01:35:20 🌌 Craig presents the cosmological and teleological arguments for God's existence, emphasizing that these arguments provide grounds to believe in a personal creator and intelligent designer of the universe.
01:35:48 🧩 The moral argument is discussed, with Craig asserting that atheism lacks a foundation for objective moral values, while theism provides a transcendent basis for such values.
01:38:41 🙏 Craig explains N.T. Wright's argument about the resurrection of Jesus, highlighting that the origin of the disciples' belief in a risen Messiah demands explanation, and the empty tomb and post-mortem appearances of Jesus provide a compelling case for the resurrection.
01:40:11 🤔 Christopher Hitchens counters by suggesting that religious beliefs are man-made and contradictory, referencing instances where religion supported harmful ideologies, and emphasizing the need for secular ethics and critical thinking.
01:43:17 🕊️ Hitchens challenges the assertion that unbelief leads to wickedness and that moral values come solely from religion, arguing that moral values can be understood without religious doctrine.
01:48:49 💡 Craig concludes by summarizing his arguments, asserting that atheism is a worldview that lacks evidential support, while theism offers explanations for cosmology, morality, and the resurrection of Jesus, inviting Hitchens and the audience to consider Christianity.
01:56:30 😄 Dr. Craig discusses the positive impact of religious guidelines on sexual expression, stating that religious people have more satisfying sexual lives.
01:56:59 🤔 Hitchens challenges religious beliefs about homosexuality and questions the contradiction between claiming homosexuality is against God's law while some are born homosexual.
01:58:00 ⚖️ A student questions Hitchens about blaming religion for violence when the creation of nuclear bombs by physicists caused massive destruction, leading to a discussion on the difference between physics and ideology.
01:59:11 😈 Hitchens argues that specific religious injunctions, like circumcision, are harmful, while Dr. Craig suggests that such practices might not accurately reflect the essence of faith.
02:00:41 🌍 A debate on whether atheists or religious individuals, like Marxists or Christians, have caused more harm in history, with Dr. Craig emphasizing the focus on the truth of worldviews rather than their societal impact.
02:02:08 🧐 Hitchens challenges the legitimacy of biblical commandments and actions, criticizing harmful religious behaviors that stem from perceived divine instructions.
02:03:35 🌟 A student raises the question of life's purpose for atheists and theists, leading to discussions about meaningful living, humanism, and the role of religious beliefs.
02:06:36 🔑 Dr. Craig asserts that without God, life lacks objective meaning, while Hitchens argues that humanism can provide meaningful purpose and positive motives.
02:08:06 💔 A debate about the existence of God's intervention in suffering and the problem of evil, where Dr. Craig defends the compatibility of God's existence with suffering.
02:18:03 😢 Dr. Craig acknowledges that the emotional problem of evil often stems from an aversion to a God who permits suffering.
02:18:32 🙏 The suffering of Jesus Christ on the cross provides a perspective on human suffering and evil, offering courage and strength to endure it.
02:19:25 🤔 Christian theism can provide understanding of suffering and evil in the world, giving purpose and hope through Christ's sacrifice.
02:20:23 ❓ Addressing theodicy, the challenge of suffering, Hitchens questions the validity of believing in a deity amidst intense human suffering.
02:21:56 🌍 Debates like this arise due to the rise of theocratic challenges and the need to counter the spread of harmful religious ideologies.
02:22:57 💡 The emergence of debates reflects a challenge to the modernity's secular worldview, questioning its consequences and seeking a renaissance of Christian thinking.
02:25:38 ✅ Good societies allow debates; confident faith welcomes them; accomplished scholars make them engaging and productive.
02:26:18 📚 Christopher Hitchens recommends N.T. Wright's books; book signing follows the event.
02:27:26 👋 The event concludes with acknowledgments and thanks to the participants and the university.
thanks
Thank you!
Is that chatGPT generated?
@@LGpi314 nah bro.
Best comment here (I love you for this)
Craig completely fumbled the suffering in Africa question. My goodness...
@joeturner9219quite a few of them. He didn't address even once the philosophical arguments
@@Mark-wk5dc WLC philosophy is just too far ahead of Hitchens, i think he leant towards more his well practiced weaker arguments, appeal to people's emotions and humour.
@@JonathanMafi "Far ahead"! Do you know how old his philosophical arguments are! Hitchens rebutted everything Craig said apart from granting him a creator from the kalam. His rebuttals seem to just fly over the heads of theists! Cognitive dissonance at its finest!
Where @joeturner9219
Probably because philosophy doesn't prove anything@@Mark-wk5dc
I've been depressed all my life until I started watching Hitchens. He had a realistic point of view to me. Same with George Carlin
Those who sort the comments and read enough from my posts (both answers and threads) can see that *I have proved* that this reality has been created by an Intelligence (called God / the Creator) whose nature will never be really comprehended by humans (because of our proved limitations) except through Jesus Christ, the human form of God.
*All evil has been done because of stupidity and the main/worst stupidity has always been to not listen by God/Jesus.*
In particular, for mankind, if ALL people (over history and nowadays) would have followed the main commandment from Jesus Christ, *besides to love / respect our Heavenly Father, to love / respect (care for) the other humans as we love / respect (care for) ourselves,* all the crimes and the tremendous useless suffering would have never happen.
Without *true belief* in God/Jesus, the following evil facts have happened, are happening and will happen, unfortunately:
- so many millions of people killed in wars and not only (following the killing of billions in the Third World War);
- so many trillions of dollars, euros, etc. wasted on nuclear, chemical, biological and conventional weapons, on armies, etc. only for killing and destruction... not used for: free better education for ALL, suitable jobs for ALL (without exploitation / slavery), healthier food for ALL, renewable energy, science, eradication of all diseases, better housing (resistant to earthquakes...), financing of useful inventions, recycling, reforestation etc.
- sadism, violence, dishonesty, vices, envy ... stupidity in general.
We should never fight against each other but only against our lack of useful knowledge / wisdom (for decreasing our ignorance), while loving / respecting each other as we love / respect ourselves, these being the main requests of God/Jesus.
Therefore, both science and proper education are very important to understand God's creation and what is better, regarding the human behavior, so that ALL of us can be not only happier in our ephemera life into this world (while we are still alive here) but also deserving, or at least allowable, for perpetual life in Heaven (after leaving this world).
@@filmeseverin Bla bla bla.
Your god is the evil. If your god exists then it is a genocidal narcissistic psychopathic maniac. Bible says so.
People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Bla bla bla
Delusional stay delusional.
Is it ok for one human to own another? Will you kill your own child if god asks? Are those bad things?
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 There is one religious person who says that murder is wrong because god told him and another religious person comes and says that murder is good because god told him. In your presupposition's world, who is right?
Is it ok for one human to own another? Will you kill your own child if your god asks? Why do you worship an immoral god?
Everything that he's saying that's out of the Bible doesn't mean anything when the Bible cannot be proven to be true.
troy lenz The bible has been proven to be historically accurate though...
Josiah No it has not. Please cite your sources for that claim.
...well he's not just making claims from the Bible is he? He's using arguments...
It is historical fact that Csar, Pharaoh, and Nebuchadnezzar were ancient leaders in nonreligious writings. Tell me more about your lack of research that found nothing more than hating Christianity and the Bible.
The bible mentions some historical figures. Doesn't make any of the stories true though.
Let me just clear things up for everyone:
It’s turtles. All the way down.
Robert Anton Wilson -- Prometheus Rising (?)
Robin Allison, I’m a new man.
When in doubt... Jest!
😃😆😆😆😆
@@Lamster66 who cares do we get to wear special hats?
IF ONLY ...
I can't remember how many times I've listened to this. Before this video, I listened to the sequel, with Dr. Craig and Sam Harris. Sam was trying to be funny, but nothing nor no one can compare to Christopher Hitchens. I miss him so much, but I'm so thankful for all his debates, interviews, discussions, speeches, &c. that preserve his wit, humor, brilliance, and scintillating personality online. I only regret that he wasn't also a chef so that I could have hundreds of hours more of him, this time in fine kitchens everywhere. "Hitchens in Kitchens" it might've been called. And a series of fascinating cookbooks could have been born 🥃☕️🥂🥩🫒🍋🍺🥢🍾🍷🍸🍹
And have y'all noticed that when it comes to Islam, he's our 21st century Nostradamus? No matter that he died almost 13 years ago, he remains right on every observation he ever made about the "religion of peace," except for Iraq. But Iraq was a political observation, not a religious one. He has always been spot-on about Islam and islamism.
Back then, before Hitch died and when Sam used to debate religion, his dry humor was perfect for the subject matter. Since October 7, 2023, he seems to have picked up where he left off. However, he no longer uses humor, again because of the subject matter. Jerry Seinfeld broke down during an interview. Even Jesus wept. These are grim days for us (we?) secular Jews. If only Hitch were still with us.
If only ...
WHAT IS HE MEANING OF LIFE?
To have a relationship with God on earth so you can spend eternity together in Heaven. So, what pushes me away from God? Sin (lying, unforgiveness, sexual sins from lust, dishonouring parents, steeling, taking the Lord’s Name in vain etc) which leads to hell. But Jesus died on the Cross and rose from the dead to give you the ability to repent and Believe in Him as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.
I personally don't think Hitchens was right about more or less everything. But he was right about a lot, without doubt.
I think your comment is super lovely :). May he rest in peace, even if he isn't in heaven or hell.
@@jonelervorths4110 All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
Watching old debates while half the country continues to burn - I just realized how much I miss Christopher Hitchens.
People like Hitchens are the contributing reason why half the country burns. Take God out if the equation and no has to respond to anyone. Survival of the fittest, Darwinism.
@@MrStamperh Your statement shows an absence of understanding of Darwinism. Also, in your statements, you make two claims without any elaboration as to what they mean, let alone without any supporting claims, evidence or arguing on a base of logic.
Rik did you use your mind to make that remark?
Gabriel Jordan •••
Yeah, Hitch was great. Christopher Hitchens was the best atheist apologists of his generation. They will miss him. I can remember when he was one of the propagandists that sold us on the idea of invading Iraq over 9/11 and nonexistent weapons of mass destruction. He even suckered me with that one.
Have you ever wondered why they teach our kids big bang and evolution theory in school,and yet those same State controlled public schools haven't taught the science of classical logic for more than a century?(The Underground History of American Education by John Gatto)
I guarantee you that if our government thought that making us believe in Zeus would make us twice as productive and easier to control , they would be teaching Zeus in our public schools right now.
Our government has turned its back on Christianity because atheism makes better drones . They can't have hundreds of millions of heavily armed ignorant peasants running around thinking they have a soul and there's a God. That could get ugly. That's the stuff revolutions are made of.
P.S.
There is overwhelming reliable evidence to prove the existence of God, regardless what government stooges say.
"The public is a ferocious beast; one must either chain it or flee from it." -Voltaire
"Their central dogma is the immortality and transmigration of the soul. A doctrine which they regard as the finest incentive to courage, since it inspires contempt of death."
-Julius Caesar, "The Commentaries", regarding the spiritual beliefs of the ancient Druids, 51 B.C.
Stewart
It’s okay, your god will save you. Or flood the planet and wipe you out.
Silly girl.
Nine years after… and still great to watch!
Right?
Except the James Webb telescope and recent astronomical observations throwing a wrench in Craig’s entire argument about the exact start of the universe, the Big Bang, etc.. science is a bitch.
Dr William Lane Craig threw so many word salads that it started to get annoying.
@@Jealod24stay away from science
You can start it by not using anything around you
Everyone in the comment section is all of a sudden a genius!
😂😂
Not all of a sudden. Took us a lifetime to get there 😎
Only me 😂🤣
Noo, recognized as always having been :D
I have proof that I'm a genius. Watch this: ---->> earth is flat. Bam. *done
For Hitchens, the hardest part was not having any whiskey
COCAINE is better
@@thewiseman5948 two drugs that don’t do the same thing at all. Is Advil better than Benadryl?
yeh he can't operate without it, or with it??
@@rep3e4 He operated pretty damn well, but maybe you have alternative facts or some other nonsense to back up your claim.
Over ten minutes to introduce someone. Who is now going to introduce the speakers Wow.
NASA MAN For a two hour live audience debate it’s not that long an introduction - for youtube viewers including me I thank the fellow above who posted the debate as starting at 13:00 or so.
Strontium Stargazer I don't have all that time to waste.
Jesus is Awesome.
Loved the introduction. Set such a lovely, kind and respectful atmosphere 👏🏻👏🏻
yeah this reminds me of a presidential debate.... only exactly the opposite.
Enjoy your gross glutinous slime
Nothing beats the self-aware Christian.
@@fresh1765 Except Christopher Hitchens*
Cairyn Jay Atmosphere aside I just don´t see how anybody can believe in god.
As a Roman Catholic born and breed agnostic I never tried to prove my view on anyone else ever and it’s actually religious people who go door to door preaching to the masses
Did you not live through TRUST THE SCIENCE?
There was and is no man like Hitchens.
Agreed
Plz he like a institutionalized Drunk uncle full of myths and logic with no foundation.
@@travisstrickland7270myths and logic!!?? Hitchens!!!???🤣🤣🤣😭
Oh... Very... Dear...🤤🤤
He was an unparalleled wit, raconteur, author and genius. Link me your incisive ramblings.
Alan Watts was phenomenal too
I like these debates because there’s no commercial breaks!
Bruh you still ain't got netflix yet?