I'm a veteran and we dont claim this guy, he is incredibly rude and lacks debating skills. Nice work Cliffe, your points came through more clearly than his.
He sounds like he had problems as a child, and probably problems now. Crying and begging God doesn't get prayer answered. We need to come to God in faith. Trusting Him to answer our prayers.
I think this veteran had a rough past and he clearly needs Jesus. I pray for the Holy Spirit to touch this man just like how Jesus touched Saul who became St Paul..
If God is all loving teaches not to kill steal or destroy then that means slavery shouldn’t of been the way it was ppl let the devil take control it’s the same today ppl with money power demands respect and will destroy to get whatever their desires is
@@cmdrplays5403 If the handshake is suitable when using it, just like Cliffe doing so after the man said that he's a veteran. Cliffe wanted to thank him by serving the country, it makes sense.
Marine here, that served when 9/11 happened and deployed for many years after. As a Veteran, I know others agree, we don't want him associated with us! He seems like the kind of guy that's mad he didn't see action. USMC 1999-2007
so u went to another country attacked it and didnt have proof of weapons of mass destruction but dick channey was able to install his company "halliburton" in there and make more millions for the elites.. the top 1% thank you for your sacrifices
The only thing this guy served was criminal politicians and billionaire oil tycoons Wonder if he was assigned to protect the poppy fields to flood countries including the U.S. with heroin What a good guy!! Lol
This is common from mockers. Just bullet spray bunch of a question not really wanting to know the answers but searching for a gotcha moment and at the same time interrupt those who are gathered to listen.
Guy calls Cliff a liar about what he says about Muhamad in the Qoran and yet gets basic stuff wrong and even says he needs to understand it more. Continues to call him a liar when he doesn’t even understand the Bible. Very disingenuous of him. Also using the out of place “i’m a veteran” excuse was low especially for other veterans.
As a vet, I don’t know where he learned to communicate. All he did was try and talk over you and twist your points around. He clearly is confused and angry about something and for whatever reason wants to blame God instead of run to him.
@@user-zr6pl6nb6zso now you agree? Yet someone mentions God and aren't rude about it? Like the rest of the comments you replied to being rude when they talked about God?
@keilanarellano3621yeah dude obviously you can disagree with the guy and be nice no one has issues with that But if you're gonna be an asshole and act like he's not a real vet because he disagrees with you then you deserve to be called out That's how it works
If a man can’t shake hands with someone that’s a big red flag in general. I know it’s not necessarily Biblical but it’s honestly a joke how he couldn’t shake his hand
The Bible does not promote slavery.. it promotes glorifying God in whatever situation you are in.. whether free or slave or even persecuted till death you must behave in the manner that Glorifys God.
@Mazin-91-i8o well let me ask you this. Would you rather grow up in a country that makes you a slave when you’re old enough too and you don’t have a free will and you work grueling hours or would you rather die at a young age and be in heaven where you don’t have to deal with any of that
@Mazin-91-i8o they brought that on themself by not obying Gods commands and warnings, remember, it was 9 plauges before when every firstborn were unalived. Their parents refused to obey Almighty God. they made a choice which every human being also have to make in todays time, either follow Jesus Christ or serve satan. Jesus= Heaven, satan=hell.
@Mazin-91-i8o The answer is very simple. All who were obedient to God and put lambs blood on the door frame, lived. Those who did not, the first born died. Pharaoh, who had a hard heart, refused to let the Israelites go, and God sent ever increasing plagues to convince pharaoh to let the Israelites go. The more he refused, the more severe the plague, until ultimately he was brought to the point of the 1st born potentially dying including his. Moses pleaded with pharaoh to let the Israelites go, and when he refused a plague occurred to weaken Pharaoh’s grip. It’s very simple. God asks for our obedience in all things. If we our obedient to Him we will go to heaven.
@Mazin-91-i8othose children are in heaven now. I don’t know God’s ways but if you think about it, a lot of these kids back in those times would have been killed either way by the opposing armies fighting. When God takes away a life is that murder on his account?
@Mazin-91-i8o Thats the same as if your dad gambles all your money away and the whole family is going to be affected. Due to the Egyptians not obeying what was said, that was the punishment.
This man has alot of misplaced anger in his life, which most likely stems from pain. Until he is able to confront that pain and ask Jesus for help with it, he will always be stuck in this hatred towards God. I will pray that God helps him
@@dondrejames1679the numbers can be mutilated as long as technology exists, data on a screen or on a piece of paper doesn't explain what everything going on in the world for what we don't see.
@@MG-ot2yr please, study first, don't be ignorant, Roman historians like Tacitus wrote about him, Jewish historians like Flavius did. Many more that lived in his lifetime or very close to it did wrote about him.
@@MG-ot2yr There are (If my count is correct) something like 212 texts outside the Bible that mention Jesus and parts of his life. What do you need to "prove" a historical fact? I never saw George Washington, but historical records indicate he was an actual person.
@user-zr6pl6nb6z or people can just be respectful and let the other answer. You don't see Cliffe doing the same. A vigorous debate isn't talking over someone.
@@brianborstein8456well said. Decorum costs nothing. Decorum is not talking over another, not refusing to shake hands, not using veiled insults like lying, labels etc and not rushing to the topic without finishing the last topic.
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z bro are you filled with hatred or something? Literally interrupting In a conversation is the most disrespectful thing that everyone knows? Why hating to much?
@@brianborstein8456yes because he doesn't cut out any kind debates he has just to get clicks on videos that would be craz....oh wait he does do that because no one would want to watch a kind and respectful debate
Then stop procreating human beings and multiplying if that’s the reality. Enough people have lived through that kind of reality and became more reasons Jesus had to die on the cross. Haven’t there been enough reasons already?
Then don’t procreate anymore people. Enough people have lived through that kind of reality. There’s been enough reasons Jesus had to die on the cross already.
Idk about this guy, but it eats us alive from within when we think about the past and then realise what we believe and deep inside us know is the future. Pray for this young man, some of us are way past our bestby date or use by date.
Outstanding Job Cliffe on handling yourself on this guy/veteran's issue. 😊 He needs help understanding who Jesus truly is & maybe by you saying just enough, the seed was planted so God can work His miracle on him.💯
"Somebody else have questions?" Perfect ending Clift. Let him think through his disrespectful attitude, what a shame. Lord Jesus, please encounter him in his dream/vision🙏
This young man is a prime example of arrogance. It is my prayer for him to see this video in a few years and to be absolutely embarrassed. I pray for him to know our Lord Jesus Christ and to realise His love. And I pray he stops lying to himself and others. PS: he hasn’t read the Bible and certainly hasn’t, ‘studied’ any of it. Great witness again Cliff. Well done brother. MARANATHA 🙏
What does that even mean Christians say this but it makes no sense atheists don't worship themselves we don't worship anything that's the whole damn point
This guy is a military bully. Calling a guy spreading gospel a liar. This guy bullied people in Iraq or Afghanistan, possibly murdering some. All for oil and poppy fields to flood countries with heroin. I know people overseas who taunted kids eith water pouring it our in front of them as they drove by in tanks... not bullies at all. Right? Lol
@@cmdrplays5403 lol nope but usually when someone demands respect because they are a veteran they are typically the war story hero type and it’s something the veteran community hates.
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z "Neither does holding up a book and quoting it" Good thing literally no one else thinks that, either. You're fabricating an argument with yourself.
A lot of anger in this vet. I know a few like him. I was there once. He needed this conversation. Hopefully he’s found his answer. Cliff didn’t get through to him.
2:50 overall I disagree with the veteran but here I think he actually has a point. I’ve watched a ton of Cliffe’s clips and it seems that in an effort to gain a rhetorical advantage he always brings up race at least once, oftentimes to try and make his opponent out to be bigoted in some way. This is a form of Ad Hominem attack known as “Poisoning the Well” and I am not a fan of his using that tactic. That being said, it is only a small part of what Cliffe does and I think overall he does great work.
I get your point, but you might have misunderstood why cliffe brought that up. The veteran was saying: 'what if good wins' and then backing that up with the statement that there is less crime than ever. Cliffe responded by basically saying that evil already won in the past. The victims of slavery are already dead. So in light of that I think Cliffe's response was not with the goal in my mind of making his 'opponent' out be be bigoted. He could maybe have phrased how he explained it differently, but nowhere does he explicitly state that the veteran was a bigot for saying what he said. It was just to show to him what the logical outworking is of his statement and that therefore he might be wrong. He is not at all assuming or saying that the veteran is a bigot. But I agree that to some it might look that way, but that is extremely likely not Cliffe's intention.
Cliffe is incredibly patient and handles this guy well. This guy seems to be incredibly angry inside. I have great respect for what veterans have done for this country, but that guy does not deserve respect for this interaction. He seems incredibly pissed off at God and anyone preaching the truth about God. Hopefully he is not on the edge of turning violent.
my revolation from God. On the evening of Nov 1st 2023 just under a month after Israel was attacked, I was laying in bed with my wife Emily waiting for dinner to be done cooking. I then walked downstairs to check on the pizza and the pizza had a few minutes left. Listening to music and thinking of God and the oppressed people my soul was suddenly overwhelmed and i began thinking of my oppressors and yelling upwardly to God asking how much longer will they oppress me and the other saints. I then took the pizza out of the oven and set it on the counter, and paced the kitchen. The angel of the Lord then came upon me. My arms stretched apart, then together in prayer. I then fell to my knees, and the glory of the Lord shone round about me: Immediately I was in the spirit. Clouds and a mist invited me up, while the winds carried me up tonthe throne of God and after revealed beasts with a lot of eyes everywhere and within. There eyes color was like unto the day sky. Like the beast and seraphim of Ezekiel which were round about the Throne. Before the Throne was a sea of glass like unto crystal, which divided the cheribum and the ophinum from the throne and seraphim above the firmament. He that sat upon the Throne was a great light like unto the sun but vastly brighter, and a rainbow shown round about the Throne. That great light is God. I began to plea, please take me Lord, please take me. I then saw Emily walking away from me going behind the blanket into the livingroom, and In that same moments my vision ended I then approached her and embraced her and told her what I had just witnessed. Emily's point of view. Michael went downstairs to the kitchen to pull out the pizza from the oven and to cut it with a knife. Soon after I heard him yelling about the people who have oppressed him and done him wrongfully and how he no longer wants to live in this world. Then a loud thump occurred and I heard him crying please take me, please take me and that he no longer wants to be here and crying in general. I thought this was just him having an emotional break down but it persisted. I got out of bed and while going downstairs I called out are you ok a few times and hearing no response I quickened my pace. I also heard him speaking in a language i couldn't understand or known to man. I peaked through the blanket that covered the doorway to the kitchen that revealed Michael on his knees face down with his hands under his face and his feet crossed speaking in tounges. (For he that speaketh in a unknown tounge speaketh not to men but unto God). I asked again are you OK and still no answer so moved the blanket and walked up to him and touched his back and asked again are you ok. Michael then turned and looked at me with a crying face and yelled don't touch me and to get away from me very emotionally. I then left the room and came in Michael behind me and he embraced me saying "I just saw the Throne of God"
It's sad when someone just wants to argue and not listen, Cliffe went a lot longer with this man than I would, he had more patience with him, but finally you realize no matter what you say, some will never hear but by God. Matthew 10:14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.
12:13 the guy missed the whole point that WE AS HUMANS made a choice to disassociate with God. And God respected that decision. It's us as a people that God gave a choice to. Make the right one.
This guy was just angry. He didn’t want to debate he wanted to argue. He wanted to fight. He’s sour inside and he needs the lord. He doesn’t understand the basics and refuses to learn about the Bible, he’s very hurt and lost it looks like.
I hope this man comes to a better understanding of God and Christianity. Also to not twist, cherry pick, or manipulate sources/scriptures to support a false conclusion. Around 4:40 ish the veteran misquoted Christ. Yes, he did come to uphold the law during his time on earth, but Christ came to fulfill the law not to abolish it, not just uphold it. This means that to completely fill the need for the 600+ laws and reconcile humanity back to God. He seems to be coming from a negative sceptical form of cherry picking to support his worldview of Epicureanism.
Jesus alledgedly said about the mosaic laws that _"he who breaks even the smallest of these laws will be considered least in heaven"_ what did he mean by that dear ?
According to the messianic prophecy from jeremiah about what happens when the Messiah comes 👇 17 _"For this is what the LORD says: 'David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of Israel, 18 nor will the Levitical priests ever fail to have a man to stand before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to present sacrifices"_ How does the above conform with your narratives dear ? 🙄
@@Fuglicia-is7oz Lol unlike you I don't think there is any "context" in which it's moral for one group of people to own another as "property" and keep them forever dear. But hey if you think there is then go for it, present the "context" dear
@@Fuglicia-is7oz Oh really, well my morality tells me that *"Buy your slaves from the heathen nations that surround you"* Is not nor ever was a "moral" instruction and certainly not a moral reference standard that anyone should adhere or aspire to. Why dont you provide the "context" you think makes it moral ?? 🤔
This guy was just angry. He didn’t want to debate he wanted to argue. He wanted to fight. He’s sour inside and he needs the lord. He doesn’t understand the basics and refuses to learn about the Bible, he’s very hurt and lost it looks like. He’s really not listening.
lol he thinks a Christian is going to stand out there and lie lol 😂…. He is like so entitled in his ignorance 😅. Cliffe is so patient and beautifully intelligent normative in his answers while this guy tries to talk over him In ignorance. I really look up to Cliffes intelligence I have a problem with letting narcissists like this confuse me in debates or conversations Becuase they have zero integrity to stay honest on the issue and his only goal Is winning and confusing at all costs. I’m happy he exposed himself in this video that went national
I'm an atheist and im more than happy to partake in an honest two way discourse in which both parties answer and ask questions in turn if you are up for it. All I ask is that you first give me your word as a Christian that you will answer my specific questions honestly, fully and with no evasion or missdirection. Are you willing to do this *YES or NO* ?? 🤔
@@Jimsac8 My non-response to what? You only asked me now, genius. Yes, I did. But wait! You're going to say I didn't, so why don't you just have a chat with yourself?
BELIEF is NOT *"CHOICE"* or a mere act of volition. Sure someone can pretend to believe anything but the things one actually believe are not something you choose they are an involuntary response to one's level of information and understanding of their environment. You are either convinced or you are unconvinced and its EVIDENCE that convinces. I could not just make myself believe in pixies no matter how much I closed my eyes and stamped my feet. Anymore than you could right now "choose" to be convinced that God is not real or that the laws of gravity don't apply to you if you step off that cliff. Tell me could you genuinely "choose" to believe the internet does not exist and we are not having this discourse now ?? I'm talking about being CONVINCED of it bud not just pretending!! Give me an honest answer , could you right now "Choose" to believe in Thor or Zeus ??? 🤔 No of course not, for exactly the same reason I can't choose to believe in Yahweh. Now if I recieved some irrefutable knowledge or evidence then I would have to deny my own reasoning and senses. That what changes beliefs, not "choice"
What is the third option? "I do what I want." Only a child thinks they can do whatever they want and there be no consequences. This guy clearly has a lot of growing up to do and a lot to learn about responsibility.
What does "justice" actually mean to you my friend ? You see for me justice is all about fairness, responsibility, equality, accountability, and "consequences" all of which can be negated under Christian soteriology by one's acceptance or rejection of extraordinary supernatural claims and a willingness to pass the buck. One's eternal salvation or damnation is determined not by their actions in life but membership of the "belief" club *John 5 24* _“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and _*_"BELIEVES"_*_ in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and _*_SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT,_*_ but has passed from death into life"_
Moral properties such as responsibility are supervenient on actions and attributes of moral agents, and cannot be transferred between them. As such vicarious redemption or punishment ( *scapegoating* ) could never and should never be regarded as either logical or moral. The idea of sin, or morality however you define it, being a tradeable commodity is at odds with how I define morality. Particularly when it involves the suffering of an innocent. I am responsible for my good and bad actions. My bad deeds can't be "taken" any more than my good nor should they be.
Many people who disbelieve in jesus often lead devout pious lives and follow very strict and demanding religious practices with regards to worship, diet, clothing and relationships. Yet these people according to Christian narratives disbelieve in jesus because they *"want to sin"* 🤔🤫 Some live lives of isolation and quiet contemplation taking vows of celibacy and silence but the loving jesus still deems these people unworthy of anything other than eternal torment. Conversely however a murderer so long as he truly repents and accepts Jesus on his death bed he can spend an eternity in paradise with those he murdered. Unless of course those people also found the "evidence" for your God unconvincing, in which case the murderer would be looking down from paradise on the people he killed as they too suffered for eternity with atheists like me. Yet you dare talk to me about one's actions having "consequences" 🙄
Saying that people choose hell is stupid and dishonest. Because somebody doesn’t know God does not mean they WANT to go to hell. You know that’s stupid.
He's doing more than not knowing God, He's rejecting God. And all who do reject God get exactly that. A place separated from God (HELL) which also includes everything that's opposite of who God is.
Presumably you agree that "freewill" if it exists by definition cannot be the thing that determines the choices we make. If you an I both have "freewill" and are presented with options *"A"* or *"B"* we can make different choices, so clearly "freewill" was not the determining factor that resulted in said "choice" So the question then arises, what was the determing factor ?? Are there no determining factors influencing "choice" ? is it simply random outcomes, a matter of luck or a "coin toss" 🤔 if so then how could God possibly hold us responsible ?? If there are indeed factors that influence the outcome of our "choices" then what are they ?? Is it down to our "nature" desires, greed genetics, along with other internal and external influence from our environment?? Which of these factors involved in Adams "choice" was God *NOT* responsible for ?? His genetics his nature, his knowledge and understanding, every single atom of every single internal and external influence from his environment was aledgedly created by God with foreknowledge was it not ?? If you think I'm wrong then NAME the factors God did *NOT* create with foreknowledge ?? 🙄🤔 If you are unable to do this then tell me why Adam was responsible for his "choice" not God??
@@trumpbellend6717 Did you even watch the vid? Christian dude didnt accuse anyone of lying, and also never claimed he's telling the truth , he said go read the bible for yourself. 🤦♂️
@@trumpbellend6717 did you even watch? Christian dude didnt accuse anyone of lying and never claimed he's telling the truth , he said go read the gospel for yourself.
The Bible recognizes that slavery is real. Slavery didn't end in 1865, and isn't defined by chattel slavery, or defined by race or creed. It still exists to this day, and it will always exist, and it exists in ways that we don't consider to be slavery today.
How much more clear can it get? There is no commandment that says “Thou shalt not own another human being as property”. Owning a slave is not a sin. Exodus 21 tells you where to buy slaves, how long you can keep them for, how you can treat them, etc. Anybody who tries to twist the meaning of this knows it is immoral to own slaves and wants to falsely defend the Bible. For example, there is absolutely no mention of the words “indentured servitude” in the Bible, but apologist will swear that is what it means. In any case, that is STILL owning another human being as property. It doesn’t matter if they were treated nice or were let go after some years…slavery is slavery no matter how much you try to sugarcoat it.
@Bugsy0333 So in your opinion, if Christianity never existed, there would be no slavery? Also Exodus isn't Christianity. God reveals himself, as time goes on, because we are not capable of understanding God all at once. But slavery still exists my friend. Those who claim to praise Christ, will still own slaves. The commandments utter "Thou shall not murder" yet, there's still murder. I bet you are a slave to someone or something, even if you don't realize it. Use your brain to think.
@Bugsy0333 there is a commandment that says "thou shalt not murder" yet murder still happens. Don't you get that, it is on us, not God? There is no commandment that says, "Thou shalt not force an employee to work 14 hours a day, but only pay him for 8" but it still happens to this day. I'm not sure if you are saying that Christianity is the cause of slavery, or if it didn't do enough to end it? But slavery still exists to this day, whether you recognize it or not. Exodus pre-exists Christianity, btw. God reveals himself in time, because we are not capable of understanding God at once. There are evil men on this world, and evil men own slaves. The opposition to slavery usually ends in death. To whom? The slaves. Use your brain to think.
Oh gee, a veteran…my grandpa was a WW2 army veteran, my dad a USAF veteran, me and my wife are navy vets, my son a current army officer. What does veterans status matter?
Just because you are veteran you dont know everything. This veteran needs to study the bible. If you dont believe something dont call people liers you dont know them. 😊
One of the reasons I'm an atheist is BECAUSE I study the bible. I think it was Mark Twain that said.... _"It ain’t the parts of the Bible that I can’t understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand"_
If my wife decides to get a divorce can, I force her to say with me. Of course not. We will not be living together in the future. It's the same with God. If I choose to divorce myself from God, He will not force me to stay with him. It's not hard to grasp when it's put in human terms.
Put it in human terms for us how it's right for God to create us in a state of sin (since I had nothing to do with what went on in the Garden of Eden) and then punish us?
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z Because God is good, He promises that in The End, EVIL will ultimately lose. And because you have Sinned against a Holy God, you do deserve Punishment, which is what Hell is... But because God does love you so much He sent His Son Jesus Christ to come down here to Earth to die on a Cross to pay the penalty that every Human Being deserves from all of us doing Evil, which is death! *NOW IF GOD OFFERS U A PARDON,* *BUT THEN U REJECT HIS PARDON.* You're essentially sending yourself to Hell! And so because you are an Eternal Soul, you will have to exist somewhere for all Eternity! It will either be with God or it'll be totally separated from God & that is Hell! NOW AS A CHRISTIAN MYSELF, WOULD YOU LIKE TO EXACTLY KNOW WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS FOR U TO RECEIVE GOD'S FREE GIFT OF FORGIVENESS AND OF EVERLASTING LIFE IN HEAVEN?
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z So as a fellow thinking Human Being & a searcher after truth... Are you willing to find what is the truth about Reality, & about actually knowing Jesus Christ? Cause I talk to alot of Atheists and if GOD exists, they totally don't want to find Him or they don't truly want to know Him... Like it's all just a smokescreen!
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z Would you Personally receiving God's Holy Spirit instantly today be enough Evidence that Jesus Christ is real meanin God is too? *JUST SAY YES OR NO, FRIEND!* Because on JANUARY 1st, 2021 I myself received The Holy Spirit! It has been 4 Years now that I've become BORN AGAIN and I still do have The Holy Spirit dwelling inside of me....... Even right now!
@@user-zr6pl6nb6zI see what you’re trying to do there. A little sanctimonious of you if you ask me. Yes, if you are a passionate follower of Jesus Christ and you love him enough to follow his teachings, which includes loving one another as Jesus loves you, then yes, you would care what someone like him has to say when asked why he is angry at God and his personal issues. If you are not a passionate follower, then it’s not guaranteed that you will care to listen to someone’s personal problems.
So sad to see such a bitter man. Or perhaps a self indulgent child. My dad was in the army in WW11 but that didn’t keep him from being someone who still had a lot to learn. This guy even more so.
I don't think its "rational" to believe our moral status is the result of a talking snake convincing a rib woman and mud figurine man to eat a magic fruit against the wishes of an invisible God called Yahweh dear 🤭
@@glennatnatglen964 Lol is this piffle what passes as a rational argument in you perspective when the absurdity of your beliefs have been revealed? 🤭😅🤣
The vet is honestly trying to run and hide from his own sinfulness and doesn’t want to be accountable to God. Vet God is the creator so yeah he can do whatever pleases him… you were made from dirt so be grateful. Praying for him…
@@mechanicalturk5202 People don't want more. They want any proof. I've heard liar Cliffe and many other liars, and never once have they given proof. Wake up and smell some rationality to understand a liar when you hear one. The proof and the truth of a liar shall set you free to critical thinking.
I might have a different take to some on this. While the vet guy was pretty rude and angry, I think he had a genuine issue with what was being said. We get a choice, a relationship with God or not. The problem here is that nothing exists without God. He created and sustains all things. To reject God is to reject life itself, that is what hell is, the destruction of the wicked. This earth is on borrowed time, God has been kind enough to let us live out our days even if we are wicked people, and He does not show favouritism between the righteous and unrighteous. God cannot help you unless you ask though, and he will help anyone who asks as long as it’s actually in their best interest, like a good father would do. A good father doesn’t just give his child everything the child asks for.
I’m a veteran but I never disrespect people to prove my point. I wait to scale the entire situation and choose a path to pursue. This guy has a chip on his shoulder and tunnel vision. Truth is a big pill for him to swallow. 😂
Truth is demonstrated dear not asserted, its that which best conforms with the FACTS and EVIDENCE and has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone's "faith" in a specific subjective "God"
Being a veteran is commendable, and I have great respect for veterans. However, the veteran who argued with Cliff faced the morality of God and His divine will with a childlike outlook of 'I want, I want, I want.' When you're fighting in a war, it may seem that God isn't present because you're in the midst of such intense and chaotic situations. But there are countless veterans who are believers in God. My grandfather, Private Dale, served with the Wiltshire Regiment in Devizes. His weapon was a Bren gun, and apart from accidentally falling from a vehicle and having to run, he didn't see much action. He talks respectfully about his experiences and believes in God and Jesus. His biggest pet peeve as a Christian is when someone who doesn't know him calls him a sinner, despite living a full life. I respect him deeply. Here are some facts: Jews and Gentiles are different but equally loved by God. God allows us to choose, and who turns down a good thing? God is our Father, and He acts as our Father. Jesus is the flesh of God, sent to prove to the Hebrews that He extends His hand out of punishment and to teach key ways to be with Him. The Holy Spirit is the holy aspect of God that lives inside 8 billion people. If you reject God, you will feel His absence until you are ready for Him. Whether you share mercy, forgiveness, understanding, acceptance, hope, or compassion, whether it is the morality of Christ or ethics in science, you are still putting good into the world. Have faith in Jesus, not because you are told you should have faith in Him despite the evidence for or against it, but because you freely choose to. Praying works when you believe in Him without an attached agenda. Prayers come in forms of comfort, strength, and opportunities. It doesn't always happen instantly; most of the time, it happens in its own time, usually when you need it, not when you want it. If you're hurting and you pray for God to stop the pain, He will give you the opportunity to seek out help, face the challenges, and come out stronger than you were before. He was with you when it happened. He helped me gain a girlfriend, but I had to put in the work to learn. I quit smoking, but I prayed to God for strength, and I received it. After going cold turkey in a house of smokers, I have been without smoking or the feeling of wanting a cigarette, even in intense emotional times, for 151 days. So I am close to Jesus and God, and I know I have a few things to work through. I am still aware of other shortcomings.
Knowledge of FACTS, also called "propositional knowledge", is defined as true belief that is distinct from opinion or guesswork by virtue of justification. A "FACT" is a point of data that is objectively verifiable ( demonstrable ) Absent "Facts" one has only the opinion or guesswork and no justification to claim such knowledge. Science has all the FACTS yet claims nothing as "absolute" truth. Christianity conversely claims absolute truth in everything yet has no FACTS 😜 To assert as FACT that for which there is insufficient evidence is intellectually dishonesty and essentially no different than a *"LIE"*
// "jews and gentiles are equally loved by God" // Lol I think you will find that the bible days the former can own the latter as "property" and can keep them forever. However the former group were forbidden from owning each other as they were the superior "chosen people" 🙄
My "morality" tells me that *"Buy your slaves from the heathen nations that surround you"* Is not nor ever was a "moral" instruction and certainly not a moral reference standard that anyone should adhere or aspire to. Do you agree *YES or NO* ?? 🤔
@@trumpbellend6717 Thank you for your thoughtful response. Propositional Knowledge and Facts: Propositional knowledge relies on verifiable facts, while Christianity, grounded in faith, also offers historical evidence regarding Jesus. Records from Roman and Jewish historians, and the rapid spread of Christianity, provide context and support for His life and impact. Historical Evidence for Jesus: External records and eyewitness accounts mention Jesus and the early Christian movement, supporting the historical existence and significance of Jesus. Christian Claims and Intellectual Honesty: Faith-based beliefs in Christianity are deeply rooted in centuries of tradition, personal experiences, and spiritual insights. While they differ from empirical evidence in science, they offer meaningful insights into the human experience. Faith and Spiritual Experiences: Many individuals have personal spiritual experiences and transformations attributed to their faith in Jesus. While subjective, these experiences are meaningful for those who have them. Morality and Scriptural Interpretation: Regarding the Bible and morality, it’s important to interpret ancient texts within their historical and cultural contexts. The verse about buying slaves reflects norms of ancient societies, not modern ethical standards. Christians today focus on broader teachings of love, justice, and compassion that Jesus emphasized. Meaning Behind Leviticus 25:44-46: The passage about buying slaves from surrounding nations reflects the historical and cultural context of ancient Israel. It was part of the societal norms at the time and not intended as a moral standard for all times. Modern Christians interpret such passages within their historical context and focus on the broader ethical teachings of the Bible. Jesus’ Teachings on Love and Equality: Jesus did not directly address Old Testament laws on slavery, but His teachings on love, compassion, and equality challenge such practices. For example, He emphasized treating others as one would like to be treated (Matthew 7:12), servanthood and humility (John 13:12-17), and loving one's neighbor as oneself (Matthew 22:37-39). The Apostle Paul, in Galatians 3:28, further emphasized spiritual equality, and in Philemon, he urged a Christian slave owner to treat his slave as a brother in Christ. Complementary Roles of Faith and Science: Faith and science operate in different realms, both providing valuable insights and understanding. They can coexist, offering complementary perspectives on truth and meaning. As a Christian, I am not blind to faith that I forget historical or scientific knowledge. I believe that everything on Earth, including medicine, physics, chemistry, and biology, is part of God's creation. Science allows us to explore and maintain the world God made. My faith provides comfort, hope, and moral guidance, helping me hold compassion, acceptance, mercy, forgiveness, understanding, and creativity. Whether Jesus is the Son of God may be irrelevant to you, but I believe He holds a moral place and I trust the eyewitness accounts more than opinions from myself, you, or others. Regarding your specific question: "My 'morality' tells me that 'Buy your slaves from the heathen nations that surround you' is not nor ever was a 'moral' instruction and certainly not a moral reference standard that anyone should adhere or aspire to. Do you agree YES or NO?" My answer is NO.
@@trumpbellend6717 Thank you for your thoughtful response. Propositional Knowledge and Facts: Propositional knowledge relies on verifiable facts, while Christianity, grounded in faith, also offers historical evidence regarding Jesus. Records from Roman and Jewish historians, and the rapid spread of Christianity, provide context and support for His life and impact. Historical Evidence for Jesus: External records and eyewitness accounts mention Jesus and the early Christian movement, supporting the historical existence and significance of Jesus. Christian Claims and Intellectual Honesty: Faith-based beliefs in Christianity are deeply rooted in centuries of tradition, personal experiences, and spiritual insights. While they differ from empirical evidence in science, they offer meaningful insights into the human experience. Faith and Spiritual Experiences: Many individuals have personal spiritual experiences and transformations attributed to their faith in Jesus. While subjective, these experiences are meaningful for those who have them. Morality and Scriptural Interpretation: Regarding the Bible and morality, it’s important to interpret ancient texts within their historical and cultural contexts. The verse about buying slaves reflects norms of ancient societies, not modern ethical standards. Christians today focus on broader teachings of love, justice, and compassion that Jesus emphasized. Meaning Behind Leviticus 25:44-46: The passage about buying slaves from surrounding nations reflects the historical and cultural context of ancient Israel. It was part of the societal norms at the time and not intended as a moral standard for all times. Modern Christians interpret such passages within their historical context and focus on the broader ethical teachings of the Bible. Jesus’ Teachings on Love and Equality: Jesus did not directly address Old Testament laws on slavery, but His teachings on love, compassion, and equality challenge such practices. For example, He emphasized treating others as one would like to be treated (Matthew 7:12), servanthood and humility (John 13:12-17), and loving one's neighbor as oneself (Matthew 22:37-39). The Apostle Paul, in Galatians 3:28, further emphasized spiritual equality, and in Philemon, he urged a Christian slave owner to treat his slave as a brother in Christ. Complementary Roles of Faith and Science: Faith and science operate in different realms, both providing valuable insights and understanding. They can coexist, offering complementary perspectives on truth and meaning.
Just because you believe in a specific subjective "God" doesn't mean you get to impose the perceived whims of your particular subjective "God" upon others dear 🙄
I may not be a veteran, and I don't claim to understand the struggles of someone who has walked that path. But I believe with all my heart that Jesus still loves and accepts everyone, including the argumentative and those wrestling with anger. His arms are open wide, ready to offer peace, healing, and grace. I understand how anger and stubbornness can feel overwhelming, but Jesus has a way of softening even the hardest hearts. He doesn’t force Himself on anyone; instead, He gently calls us to lay down our burdens and let Him bring us peace. I pray that the veteran who is struggling can experience this transformative love. It’s not about being perfect or having all the answers-just a willingness to let Jesus work in our hearts and guide us toward humility and freedom from anger. I say this with love and hope, trusting in the power of His grace. I am currently playing for this sheep :)
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z so instead of addressing my initial comment/question you completely deflect and insult in return? Just like the guy in the video? Intriguing 🧐
Putting ones trust in someone unseen - rather - revealed through words and nature is not easy. The initial step has to be the hardest because we all do what we think is right for ourselves. The Christian understand: Yahusha is within - so the "self" is replaced by the Will of the Father in Heaven. Thus ... Christians seek to put the wellbeing of others before themselves - and learn to trust in their brethren to reciprocate (love). Those who cling to the serving of self have trust issues - because they fear being controlled. This is sad - because they are controlled by fear.
I'm a veteran and we dont claim this guy, he is incredibly rude and lacks debating skills. Nice work Cliffe, your points came through more clearly than his.
I'm a veteran and I do claim this guy. Quit being like that.
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z Most veterans dont worship themselves. This guy? Not so much....
@@mitral5333 How did he "worship" himself? Because he dared to disagree with Knechtle?
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z We worship ourselves when we think we can do things ourselves without God in our lives.
He sounds like he had problems as a child, and probably problems now. Crying and begging God doesn't get prayer answered. We need to come to God in faith. Trusting Him to answer our prayers.
I think this veteran had a rough past and he clearly needs Jesus. I pray for the Holy Spirit to touch this man just like how Jesus touched Saul who became St Paul..
Amen
The truth is that Cliffe's God condones chattel slavery.
@@cygnusustusnope, the Bible talks about slavery but God stops it
nah bro was probably just supply attached to a knuckle-dragger unit
If God is all loving teaches not to kill steal or destroy then that means slavery shouldn’t of been the way it was ppl let the devil take control it’s the same today ppl with money power demands respect and will destroy to get whatever their desires is
Just because he is a veteran doesn't mean he is in the right. He needs a chill pill and guidance.
Being veteran is never an excuse for maturity, for being one can potentially harden ur heart
I’m a veteran and I would not refuse someone’s hand shake thanking me. That’s disrespectful as a human being.
Well that's you
I find it gross to offer a handshake in the first place and that's me it's just personal preference
Why is it gross? @@cmdrplays5403
A video game nerd is offended. Go figure
Ocd ahh comment@@cmdrplays5403
@@cmdrplays5403 If the handshake is suitable when using it, just like Cliffe doing so after the man said that he's a veteran. Cliffe wanted to thank him by serving the country, it makes sense.
Marine here, that served when 9/11 happened and deployed for many years after. As a Veteran, I know others agree, we don't want him associated with us! He seems like the kind of guy that's mad he didn't see action.
USMC 1999-2007
Army 05-15 we respectfully decline this “veteran”.
so u went to another country attacked it and didnt have proof of weapons of mass destruction but dick channey was able to install his company "halliburton" in there and make more millions for the elites.. the top 1% thank you for your sacrifices
Woah u guys are cool :o
Sorry dear how is a mans rejection of your particular subjective God and absurd theology indicative of him not serving his country ? 🤔🙄
The only thing this guy served was criminal politicians and billionaire oil tycoons
Wonder if he was assigned to protect the poppy fields to flood countries including the U.S. with heroin
What a good guy!! Lol
As a veteran... I'm questioning this guy what kind of veteran he is
This is common from mockers. Just bullet spray bunch of a question not really wanting to know the answers but searching for a gotcha moment and at the same time interrupt those who are gathered to listen.
I didn't see a bullet spray of questions.
@@user-zr6pl6nb6zwow you have been replying to every single comment
@@josht6370 Lay aside the hyperbole. I have not replied to every single comment.
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z you replied to many and also if you watch the video, he did bullet spray a lot of of questions.
@@CarnageUndone Define "bullet spray", since I have a feeling your definition of that is asking too many questions that you cannot answer logically.
Guy calls Cliff a liar about what he says about Muhamad in the Qoran and yet gets basic stuff wrong and even says he needs to understand it more. Continues to call him a liar when he doesn’t even understand the Bible. Very disingenuous of him. Also using the out of place “i’m a veteran” excuse was low especially for other veterans.
I'm a veteran and it doesn't bother me.
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z It should.
@@mitral5333 By whose standard? Yours?
@@user-zr6pl6nb6zim a veteran and dont like it.
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z im a veteran to and it bothers me
As a vet, I don’t know where he learned to communicate. All he did was try and talk over you and twist your points around.
He clearly is confused and angry about something and for whatever reason wants to blame God instead of run to him.
Lol I'm an atheist and I don't "blame" your specific subjective God for the same reason I don't "blame" Santa Claus dear 🤭😅
@@trumpbellend6717I’m not even religious and that wasn’t even a funny joke bruh
Like do better next time
@@trumpbellend6717 "dear" cringe
God bless Cliff and his patience
As as veteran, this dude was rude and completely out of line.
Judge much? Where's that Christian compassion?
It's not judging to acknowledge a rude person is rude
That's like saying don't call a killer, a killer
This guy fought and killed for oil lol
I have no reason to believe he's a veteran. There's a lot of people who pretend they are in this country.
I do feel for this guy. His hurt breaks through the rudeness and I hope he finds God.
Agreed the bible says not to rejoice or be pleased in another's fall or stumbling but to do everything in love.
Finally, a compassionate reply!
@@user-zr6pl6nb6zso now you agree? Yet someone mentions God and aren't rude about it? Like the rest of the comments you replied to being rude when they talked about God?
@keilanarellano3621yeah dude obviously you can disagree with the guy and be nice no one has issues with that
But if you're gonna be an asshole and act like he's not a real vet because he disagrees with you then you deserve to be called out
That's how it works
Veteran or not, he's rude and not debating in good faith.
He definitely has no good faith.
You just don't like what he has to say.
If a man can’t shake hands with someone that’s a big red flag in general. I know it’s not necessarily Biblical but it’s honestly a joke how he couldn’t shake his hand
@@user-zr6pl6nb6zwe just want people to know the love of Christ. We aren’t gonna accept what others say because we already know Christ is the truth.
@@SolidPain6624 You can't logically defend against tough questions.
The Bible does not promote slavery.. it promotes glorifying God in whatever situation you are in.. whether free or slave or even persecuted till death you must behave in the manner that Glorifys God.
@Mazin-91-i8o well let me ask you this. Would you rather grow up in a country that makes you a slave when you’re old enough too and you don’t have a free will and you work grueling hours or would you rather die at a young age and be in heaven where you don’t have to deal with any of that
@Mazin-91-i8o they brought that on themself by not obying Gods commands and warnings, remember, it was 9 plauges before when every firstborn were unalived. Their parents refused to obey Almighty God. they made a choice which every human being also have to make in todays time, either follow Jesus Christ or serve satan. Jesus= Heaven, satan=hell.
@Mazin-91-i8o The answer is very simple. All who were obedient to God and put lambs blood on the door frame, lived. Those who did not, the first born died. Pharaoh, who had a hard heart, refused to let the Israelites go, and God sent ever increasing plagues to convince pharaoh to let the Israelites go. The more he refused, the more severe the plague, until ultimately he was brought to the point of the 1st born potentially dying including his. Moses pleaded with pharaoh to let the Israelites go, and when he refused a plague occurred to weaken Pharaoh’s grip. It’s very simple. God asks for our obedience in all things. If we our obedient to Him we will go to heaven.
@Mazin-91-i8othose children are in heaven now. I don’t know God’s ways but if you think about it, a lot of these kids back in those times would have been killed either way by the opposing armies fighting. When God takes away a life is that murder on his account?
@Mazin-91-i8o Thats the same as if your dad gambles all your money away and the whole family is going to be affected. Due to the Egyptians not obeying what was said, that was the punishment.
This man has alot of misplaced anger in his life, which most likely stems from pain. Until he is able to confront that pain and ask Jesus for help with it, he will always be stuck in this hatred towards God. I will pray that God helps him
Violent Crime actually had increased massively, we just have advanced in health care to the point people don’t die.
That isn't what the data says though.
@@dondrejames1679the numbers can be mutilated as long as technology exists, data on a screen or on a piece of paper doesn't explain what everything going on in the world for what we don't see.
There are more slaves today than at any point in time in history. Especially women and children sex traffic slave trade
Jesus is a proven historical fact.
That's the only part of Knechtle's argument I agree with.
It is not a proven historical fact.
@@MG-ot2yr please, study first, don't be ignorant, Roman historians like Tacitus wrote about him, Jewish historians like Flavius did. Many more that lived in his lifetime or very close to it did wrote about him.
@@MG-ot2yrwrong answer , thank you for playing. I guess the Roman and Jewish historical records are wrong huh?
@@MG-ot2yr There are (If my count is correct) something like 212 texts outside the Bible that mention Jesus and parts of his life. What do you need to "prove" a historical fact? I never saw George Washington, but historical records indicate he was an actual person.
Every time I see Cliffe debating people, they are almost always disrespectful. They constantly interrupt after asking him to answer questions.
If you can't handle a vigorous debate, maybe you ought to not watch the videos.
@user-zr6pl6nb6z or people can just be respectful and let the other answer. You don't see Cliffe doing the same. A vigorous debate isn't talking over someone.
@@brianborstein8456well said. Decorum costs nothing. Decorum is not talking over another, not refusing to shake hands, not using veiled insults like lying, labels etc and not rushing to the topic without finishing the last topic.
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z bro are you filled with hatred or something? Literally interrupting In a conversation is the most disrespectful thing that everyone knows? Why hating to much?
@@brianborstein8456yes because he doesn't cut out any kind debates he has just to get clicks on videos that would be craz....oh wait he does do that because no one would want to watch a kind and respectful debate
This guy is hurt 🤕
He's not the only one. Me too.
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z😅What are you so hurt about?
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z Lay all your pain & burdens down at the feet of Jesus & He will uplift you & show you His great LOVE that He has for you.
9:02 bro thought he was in an edit😭
Let us not mock a man for his ignorance and pride. Instead, as Christians we should pray for this lost soul.
@@slowmoiosYes, I agree. But that was ridiculous. By the way Elijah mocked the "prophets" of baal.
Nah cuz it’s crazier cuz they hearted it
@SQ1SHY that was hilarious ash
God makes the rules..we have free will to chose to live for him.or separate from him..choose him
He brings us into a world in a state of sin. Who asked for that? Then he punishes us by default because of that born state.
Then stop procreating human beings and multiplying if that’s the reality. Enough people have lived through that kind of reality and became more reasons Jesus had to die on the cross. Haven’t there been enough reasons already?
Then don’t procreate anymore people. Enough people have lived through that kind of reality. There’s been enough reasons Jesus had to die on the cross already.
Idk about this guy, but it eats us alive from within when we think about the past and then realise what we believe and deep inside us know is the future.
Pray for this young man, some of us are way past our bestby date or use by date.
Glory to God. GoD bless pastor Cliffe knech😃🥰👍💯💪 Amen...😃👍
Outstanding Job Cliffe on handling yourself on this guy/veteran's issue. 😊 He needs help understanding who Jesus truly is & maybe by you saying just enough, the seed was planted so God can work His miracle on him.💯
I am a veteran, I do not claim him nor do I believe he is a veteran 😊
Vet must have some issue on reading the Bible and the Constitution. Must be hard for him on the field too.
What are you on about?
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z The vet. having issue..watch the vid.
@@naphtaligarde1646 I watched it. Where does he question the Constitution? Seems you didn't watch it.
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z are you a yankee? if not there must be a basis on the american constitution right?
@@naphtaligarde1646 Do I play for the New York Yankees? No, I do not.
I would say considering the fact that this was a spontaneous, informal debate without a moderator, it was civil and thought provoking.
Cliff you have the patients of Job bless you brother. 🙏🙏🙏
Hopefully Cliffe unlike Job doesn't get tormented and have his wife and family killed by God in order to prove a point
"Somebody else have questions?" Perfect ending Clift. Let him think through his disrespectful attitude, what a shame. Lord Jesus, please encounter him in his dream/vision🙏
This young man is a prime example of arrogance. It is my prayer for him to see this video in a few years and to be absolutely embarrassed. I pray for him to know our Lord Jesus Christ and to realise His love. And I pray he stops lying to himself and others. PS: he hasn’t read the Bible and certainly hasn’t, ‘studied’ any of it. Great witness again Cliff. Well done brother. MARANATHA 🙏
So your prayer is for him to be humiliated. That's mighty Christian of ya.
This young man has put himself in the place of God.
What does that even mean
Christians say this but it makes no sense atheists don't worship themselves we don't worship anything that's the whole damn point
this man has got some rough childhood memories that makes him feel angry towards God, pray for him that he may find peace for himself
"I served everyone here☝🤓" Supply Specialist ah reply 🤣🤣🤣
Hahahah you posted it before I could
So you're gonna make fun of him? Are you a high-school bully?
This guy is a military bully. Calling a guy spreading gospel a liar.
This guy bullied people in Iraq or Afghanistan, possibly murdering some. All for oil and poppy fields to flood countries with heroin. I know people overseas who taunted kids eith water pouring it our in front of them as they drove by in tanks... not bullies at all. Right? Lol
@@cmdrplays5403 lol nope but usually when someone demands respect because they are a veteran they are typically the war story hero type and it’s something the veteran community hates.
Saying out loud "I served our country" doesn't make you right. Face facts
Neither does holding up a book and quoting from it.
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z It does when that Book is the WORD OF GOD who can NOT LIE!
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z "Neither does holding up a book and quoting it"
Good thing literally no one else thinks that, either. You're fabricating an argument with yourself.
jesus is great have a great day 😊
I think brother Cliff should have a debate session with Dr Zakhir, the veteran is no way near the cross, he needs to find his own way...
Veterans also include Tim McVeigh, Lee Harvey Oswald, and Christopher Dorner.
A lot of anger in this vet. I know a few like him. I was there once. He needed this conversation. Hopefully he’s found his answer. Cliff didn’t get through to him.
2:50 overall I disagree with the veteran but here I think he actually has a point. I’ve watched a ton of Cliffe’s clips and it seems that in an effort to gain a rhetorical advantage he always brings up race at least once, oftentimes to try and make his opponent out to be bigoted in some way. This is a form of Ad Hominem attack known as “Poisoning the Well” and I am not a fan of his using that tactic. That being said, it is only a small part of what Cliffe does and I think overall he does great work.
I get your point, but you might have misunderstood why cliffe brought that up. The veteran was saying: 'what if good wins' and then backing that up with the statement that there is less crime than ever.
Cliffe responded by basically saying that evil already won in the past.
The victims of slavery are already dead.
So in light of that I think Cliffe's response was not with the goal in my mind of making his 'opponent' out be be bigoted.
He could maybe have phrased how he explained it differently, but nowhere does he explicitly state that the veteran was a bigot for saying what he said. It was just to show to him what the logical outworking is of his statement and that therefore he might be wrong.
He is not at all assuming or saying that the veteran is a bigot.
But I agree that to some it might look that way, but that is extremely likely not Cliffe's intention.
The man is a believer, he's just angry at God.
Yep.
I know how he feels.
Cliffe is incredibly patient and handles this guy well. This guy seems to be incredibly angry inside. I have great respect for what veterans have done for this country, but that guy does not deserve respect for this interaction. He seems incredibly pissed off at God and anyone preaching the truth about God. Hopefully he is not on the edge of turning violent.
That ought to help him. Belittle him. That's the Christian way.
that's interesting. where in the new testament its stated that the laws of the old testament don't apply and why don't they apply.
THIS KID NEEDS A REAL WAKE UP CALL AND RELLY NEEDS TO STUDY SCRIPTURE AND EXCEPT JESUS AMEN
This guy definitely believes in the Lord, he's just sooooooo angry with Him.
I know how it feels.
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z Tell God how you feel.
If our government is incorrect, imagine the horrors the veteran is responsible for thinking, being convinced, he is serving other in good faith.
my revolation from God. On the evening of Nov 1st 2023 just under a month after Israel was attacked, I was laying in bed with my wife Emily waiting for dinner to be done cooking. I then walked downstairs to check on the pizza and the pizza had a few minutes left. Listening to music and thinking of God and the oppressed people my soul was suddenly overwhelmed and i began thinking of my oppressors and yelling upwardly to God asking how much longer will they oppress me and the other saints. I then took the pizza out of the oven and set it on the counter, and paced the kitchen. The angel of the Lord then came upon me. My arms stretched apart, then together in prayer. I then fell to my knees, and the glory of the Lord shone round about me: Immediately I was in the spirit. Clouds and a mist invited me up, while the winds carried me up tonthe throne of God and after revealed beasts with a lot of eyes everywhere and within. There eyes color was like unto the day sky. Like the beast and seraphim of Ezekiel which were round about the Throne. Before the Throne was a sea of glass like unto crystal, which divided the cheribum and the ophinum from the throne and seraphim above the firmament. He that sat upon the Throne was a great light like unto the sun but vastly brighter, and a rainbow shown round about the Throne. That great light is God. I began to plea, please take me Lord, please take me. I then saw Emily walking away from me going behind the blanket into the livingroom, and In that same moments my vision ended I then approached her and embraced her and told her what I had just witnessed.
Emily's point of view.
Michael went downstairs to the kitchen to pull out the pizza from the oven and to cut it with a knife. Soon after I heard him yelling about the people who have oppressed him and done him wrongfully and how he no longer wants to live in this world. Then a loud thump occurred and I heard him crying please take me, please take me and that he no longer wants to be here and crying in general. I thought this was just him having an emotional break down but it persisted. I got out of bed and while going downstairs I called out are you ok a few times and hearing no response I quickened my pace. I also heard him speaking in a language i couldn't understand or known to man. I peaked through the blanket that covered the doorway to the kitchen that revealed Michael on his knees face down with his hands under his face and his feet crossed speaking in tounges. (For he that speaketh in a unknown tounge speaketh not to men but unto God). I asked again are you OK and still no answer so moved the blanket and walked up to him and touched his back and asked again are you ok. Michael then turned and looked at me with a crying face and yelled don't touch me and to get away from me very emotionally. I then left the room and came in Michael behind me and he embraced me saying "I just saw the Throne of God"
Seek psychological help dear 🤭😅🤣
Habe das Gefuehl, dass dieser Veteran traumatisiert und verbittert ist. ER kann glauben was er will, okay, aber er sollte nicht andere verunsichern.
It's sad when someone just wants to argue and not listen, Cliffe went a lot longer with this man than I would, he had more patience with him, but finally you realize no matter what you say, some will never hear but by God. Matthew 10:14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.
12:13 the guy missed the whole point that WE AS HUMANS made a choice to disassociate with God. And God respected that decision. It's us as a people that God gave a choice to. Make the right one.
This guy was just angry. He didn’t want to debate he wanted to argue. He wanted to fight. He’s sour inside and he needs the lord. He doesn’t understand the basics and refuses to learn about the Bible, he’s very hurt and lost it looks like.
to the gentleman: many babies become king, there was only one King that became a baby to be the sacrifice so we can be freed from eternal struggle!
I hope this man comes to a better understanding of God and Christianity. Also to not twist, cherry pick, or manipulate sources/scriptures to support a false conclusion.
Around 4:40 ish the veteran misquoted Christ. Yes, he did come to uphold the law during his time on earth, but Christ came to fulfill the law not to abolish it, not just uphold it. This means that to completely fill the need for the 600+ laws and reconcile humanity back to God.
He seems to be coming from a negative sceptical form of cherry picking to support his worldview of Epicureanism.
Jesus alledgedly said about the mosaic laws that _"he who breaks even the smallest of these laws will be considered least in heaven"_ what did he mean by that dear ?
If the bible were indeed the words of a perfect loving God there would be no "bad" verses to "cherry pick" dear 🙄
According to the messianic prophecy from jeremiah about what happens when the Messiah comes 👇
17 _"For this is what the LORD says: 'David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of Israel, 18 nor will the Levitical priests ever fail to have a man to stand before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to present sacrifices"_
How does the above conform with your narratives dear ? 🙄
@@Fuglicia-is7oz
Lol unlike you I don't think there is any "context" in which it's moral for one group of people to own another as "property" and keep them forever dear. But hey if you think there is then go for it, present the "context" dear
@@Fuglicia-is7oz
Oh really, well my morality tells me that *"Buy your slaves from the heathen nations that surround you"* Is not nor ever was a "moral" instruction and certainly not a moral reference standard that anyone should adhere or aspire to. Why dont you provide the "context" you think makes it moral ?? 🤔
He's a liar because jesus has been proven to be real
This guy was just angry. He didn’t want to debate he wanted to argue. He wanted to fight. He’s sour inside and he needs the lord. He doesn’t understand the basics and refuses to learn about the Bible, he’s very hurt and lost it looks like. He’s really not listening.
Yep that describes Cliffe perfectly
He needs help, lets pray for this man that he may find himself under the graces of God 🙏🏼
Dude thinks Cliffe is a regular run-of-the-mill preacher, went in guns blazing and made a fool of himself.
lol he thinks a Christian is going to stand out there and lie lol 😂…. He is like so entitled in his ignorance 😅. Cliffe is so patient and beautifully intelligent normative in his answers while this guy tries to talk over him
In ignorance. I really look up to Cliffes intelligence I have a problem with letting narcissists like this confuse me in debates or conversations Becuase they have zero integrity to stay honest on the issue and his only goal
Is winning and confusing at all costs. I’m happy he exposed himself in this video that went national
I'm an atheist and im more than happy to partake in an honest two way discourse in which both parties answer and ask questions in turn if you are up for it. All I ask is that you first give me your word as a Christian that you will answer my specific questions honestly, fully and with no evasion or missdirection. Are you willing to do this *YES or NO* ?? 🤔
Once upon a time a veteran was someone who fought in a war. What war did this guy fight in at the ripe old age of 20?
I bet he was real popular with his unit 😁
What would his unit have to do with this?
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z bro is spamming shii without making a point 💀
I'm a veteran and this man in the red shirt who claims to be a veteran Is doing more talking and no listening.
Claims to be, eh? You're right, Columbo. He's only saying he is...
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z No one is talking to you
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z No one is talking to you and watch the personal attacks please thank you.
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z Did you serve? Your non-response says that you did not serve.
@@Jimsac8 My non-response to what? You only asked me now, genius. Yes, I did. But wait! You're going to say I didn't, so why don't you just have a chat with yourself?
Why is this guy so mad about God giving us a choice on salvation?
BELIEF is NOT *"CHOICE"* or a mere act of volition. Sure someone can pretend to believe anything but the things one actually believe are not something you choose they are an involuntary response to one's level of information and understanding of their environment. You are either convinced or you are unconvinced and its EVIDENCE that convinces.
I could not just make myself believe in pixies no matter how much I closed my eyes and stamped my feet. Anymore than you could right now "choose" to be convinced that God is not real or that the laws of gravity don't apply to you if you step off that cliff.
Tell me could you genuinely "choose" to believe the internet does not exist and we are not having this discourse now ?? I'm talking about being CONVINCED of it bud not just pretending!! Give me an honest answer , could you right now "Choose" to believe in Thor or Zeus ??? 🤔 No of course not, for exactly the same reason I can't choose to believe in Yahweh.
Now if I recieved some irrefutable knowledge or evidence then I would have to deny my own reasoning and senses. That what changes beliefs, not "choice"
How many people Agree Or disagree comment below 👇⬇️
I hope this man can change his mind
What is the third option? "I do what I want." Only a child thinks they can do whatever they want and there be no consequences. This guy clearly has a lot of growing up to do and a lot to learn about responsibility.
What does "justice" actually mean to you my friend ? You see for me justice is all about fairness, responsibility, equality, accountability, and "consequences" all of which can be negated under Christian soteriology by one's acceptance or rejection of extraordinary supernatural claims and a willingness to pass the buck. One's eternal salvation or damnation is determined not by their actions in life but membership of the "belief" club
*John 5 24*
_“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and _*_"BELIEVES"_*_ in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and _*_SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT,_*_ but has passed from death into life"_
Moral properties such as responsibility are supervenient on actions and attributes of moral agents, and cannot be transferred between them. As such vicarious redemption or punishment ( *scapegoating* ) could never and should never be regarded as either logical or moral.
The idea of sin, or morality however you define it, being a tradeable commodity is at odds with how I define morality. Particularly when it involves the suffering of an innocent. I am responsible for my good and bad actions. My bad deeds can't be "taken" any more than my good nor should they be.
Many people who disbelieve in jesus often lead devout pious lives and follow very strict and demanding religious practices with regards to worship, diet, clothing and relationships. Yet these people according to Christian narratives disbelieve in jesus because they *"want to sin"* 🤔🤫 Some live lives of isolation and quiet contemplation taking vows of celibacy and silence but the loving jesus still deems these people unworthy of anything other than eternal torment.
Conversely however a murderer so long as he truly repents and accepts Jesus on his death bed he can spend an eternity in paradise with those he murdered. Unless of course those people also found the "evidence" for your God unconvincing, in which case the murderer would be looking down from paradise on the people he killed as they too suffered for eternity with atheists like me. Yet you dare talk to me about one's actions having "consequences" 🙄
Cliff is so patient dealing with arrogant idiots... sheesh...
Saying that people choose hell is stupid and dishonest.
Because somebody doesn’t know God does not mean they WANT to go to hell. You know that’s stupid.
He's doing more than not knowing God, He's rejecting God. And all who do reject God get exactly that. A place separated from God (HELL) which also includes everything that's opposite of who God is.
@ what does reject mean to you?
Explained very well sir
I hope he will believe in Jesus soon
Free will is truly special. God did not create moist robots. I hope this veteran and others like him wake up before it's too late.
Presumably you agree that "freewill" if it exists by definition cannot be the thing that determines the choices we make. If you an I both have "freewill" and are presented with options *"A"* or *"B"* we can make different choices, so clearly "freewill" was not the determining factor that resulted in said "choice"
So the question then arises, what was the determing factor ?? Are there no determining factors influencing "choice" ? is it simply random outcomes, a matter of luck or a "coin toss" 🤔 if so then how could God possibly hold us responsible ??
If there are indeed factors that influence the outcome of our "choices" then what are they ?? Is it down to our "nature" desires, greed genetics, along with other internal and external influence from our environment?? Which of these factors involved in Adams "choice" was God *NOT* responsible for ?? His genetics his nature, his knowledge and understanding, every single atom of every single internal and external influence from his environment was aledgedly created by God with foreknowledge was it not ??
If you think I'm wrong then NAME the factors God did *NOT* create with foreknowledge ?? 🙄🤔 If you are unable to do this then tell me why Adam was responsible for his "choice" not God??
I'm a veteran and i served everybody in this country therefore im telling the truth😂
I'm a Christian and it says stuff in my bible therefore it's the truth 🤭😅
@@trumpbellend6717 Did you even watch the vid? Christian dude didnt accuse anyone of lying, and also never claimed he's telling the truth , he said go read the bible for yourself. 🤦♂️
@@trumpbellend6717 did you even watch? Christian dude didnt accuse anyone of lying and never claimed he's telling the truth , he said go read the gospel for yourself.
The Bible recognizes that slavery is real. Slavery didn't end in 1865, and isn't defined by chattel slavery, or defined by race or creed. It still exists to this day, and it will always exist, and it exists in ways that we don't consider to be slavery today.
How much more clear can it get? There is no commandment that says “Thou shalt not own another human being as property”. Owning a slave is not a sin. Exodus 21 tells you where to buy slaves, how long you can keep them for, how you can treat them, etc. Anybody who tries to twist the meaning of this knows it is immoral to own slaves and wants to falsely defend the Bible. For example, there is absolutely no mention of the words “indentured servitude” in the Bible, but apologist will swear that is what it means. In any case, that is STILL owning another human being as property. It doesn’t matter if they were treated nice or were let go after some years…slavery is slavery no matter how much you try to sugarcoat it.
@Bugsy0333 So in your opinion, if Christianity never existed, there would be no slavery? Also Exodus isn't Christianity. God reveals himself, as time goes on, because we are not capable of understanding God all at once. But slavery still exists my friend. Those who claim to praise Christ, will still own slaves. The commandments utter "Thou shall not murder" yet, there's still murder. I bet you are a slave to someone or something, even if you don't realize it. Use your brain to think.
@Bugsy0333 there is a commandment that says "thou shalt not murder" yet murder still happens. Don't you get that, it is on us, not God? There is no commandment that says, "Thou shalt not force an employee to work 14 hours a day, but only pay him for 8" but it still happens to this day. I'm not sure if you are saying that Christianity is the cause of slavery, or if it didn't do enough to end it? But slavery still exists to this day, whether you recognize it or not. Exodus pre-exists Christianity, btw. God reveals himself in time, because we are not capable of understanding God at once. There are evil men on this world, and evil men own slaves. The opposition to slavery usually ends in death. To whom? The slaves. Use your brain to think.
They really shut down indipenend thinking in the military.
Oh gee, a veteran…my grandpa was a WW2 army veteran, my dad a USAF veteran, me and my wife are navy vets, my son a current army officer. What does veterans status matter?
Just because you are veteran you dont know everything. This veteran needs to study the bible. If you dont believe something dont call people liers you dont know them. 😊
One of the reasons I'm an atheist is BECAUSE I study the bible. I think it was Mark Twain that said....
_"It ain’t the parts of the Bible that I can’t understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand"_
He doesn't view things the way he should at all..
Guess everyone would think a shoe is dirty and useless if they only looked at it from the bottom!
Generally people who worship themselves do have trouble excepting God.
If my wife decides to get a divorce can, I force her to say with me. Of course not. We will not be living together in the future. It's the same with God. If I choose to divorce myself from God, He will not force me to stay with him. It's not hard to grasp when it's put in human terms.
Put it in human terms for us how it's right for God to create us in a state of sin (since I had nothing to do with what went on in the Garden of Eden) and then punish us?
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z
Because God is good, He promises
that in The End, EVIL will ultimately
lose. And because you have Sinned
against a Holy God, you do deserve
Punishment, which is what Hell is...
But because God does love you so
much He sent His Son Jesus Christ
to come down here to Earth to die
on a Cross to pay the penalty that
every Human Being deserves from
all of us doing Evil, which is death!
*NOW IF GOD OFFERS U A PARDON,*
*BUT THEN U REJECT HIS PARDON.*
You're essentially sending yourself
to Hell! And so because you are an
Eternal Soul, you will have to exist
somewhere for all Eternity! It will
either be with God or it'll be totally
separated from God & that is Hell!
NOW AS A CHRISTIAN MYSELF,
WOULD YOU LIKE TO EXACTLY
KNOW WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS
FOR U TO RECEIVE GOD'S FREE
GIFT OF FORGIVENESS AND OF
EVERLASTING LIFE IN HEAVEN?
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z
So as a fellow thinking Human
Being & a searcher after truth...
Are you willing to find what is
the truth about Reality, & about
actually knowing Jesus Christ?
Cause I talk to alot of Atheists
and if GOD exists, they totally
don't want to find Him or they
don't truly want to know Him...
Like it's all just a smokescreen!
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z
Would you Personally receiving
God's Holy Spirit instantly today
be enough Evidence that Jesus
Christ is real meanin God is too?
*JUST SAY YES OR NO, FRIEND!*
Because on JANUARY 1st, 2021
I myself received The Holy Spirit!
It has been 4 Years now that I've
become BORN AGAIN and I still
do have The Holy Spirit dwelling
inside of me....... Even right now!
@@D-1-V-A You're not answering my question logically. God created me in a state of sin. I never asked for it.
This the type guy who got a dishonorable discharge. No Honor what so ever. I hope Jesus convicts his heart of stone.
The guy comes accusing others and plays the victim because of a verifiable fact. He was not interested in truth, he just wanted to vent.
Cliff should have asked this man what his personal issues are with god why is he so angry
Let me ask you this. If you asked him that, would you actually care what his answer was?
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z , I would care, as a fellow veteran and Christian I would want to know what is troubling him.
@@RAaronCraft I'm a vet and a Christian who has had enough. Do you care about me?
@@user-zr6pl6nb6zI see what you’re trying to do there. A little sanctimonious of you if you ask me. Yes, if you are a passionate follower of Jesus Christ and you love him enough to follow his teachings, which includes loving one another as Jesus loves you, then yes, you would care what someone like him has to say when asked why he is angry at God and his personal issues. If you are not a passionate follower, then it’s not guaranteed that you will care to listen to someone’s personal problems.
@@arcticangel1628 Oh, you're right onto me, are ya Columbo?
Great job, Cliffe!
So sad to see such a bitter man. Or perhaps a self indulgent child. My dad was in the army in WW11 but that didn’t keep him from being someone who still had a lot to learn. This guy even more so.
Yep Cliffe has much to learn
How about those that pray to a god so as not to suffer and starve to death, but suffer to death any way?
That veteran is absolutely angry with God. Only God can change him.
Lol I'm an atheist and I'm not "angry" with your God for the same reason I am not "angry" at Santa Claus dear 🤭
He is not a veteran of rational thinking
I don't think its "rational" to believe our moral status is the result of a talking snake convincing a rib woman and mud figurine man to eat a magic fruit against the wishes of an invisible God called Yahweh dear 🤭
@trumpbellend6717 Phillipians 2:11
@@glennatnatglen964
Lol is this piffle what passes as a rational argument in you perspective when the absurdity of your beliefs have been revealed? 🤭😅🤣
The vet is honestly trying to run and hide from his own sinfulness and doesn’t want to be accountable to God. Vet God is the creator so yeah he can do whatever pleases him… you were made from dirt so be grateful. Praying for him…
Where in the Holy bible does it say the GOD step away so Man can have free will?
"Love me or burn forever" some choice 🤭😅🤣
Making a claim of truth without proof is close enough to being a liar.
You didn't get to hear what proof he has. .. and some who do hear, always want more.
@@mechanicalturk5202 People don't want more. They want any proof. I've heard liar Cliffe and many other liars, and never once have they given proof. Wake up and smell some rationality to understand a liar when you hear one. The proof and the truth of a liar shall set you free to critical thinking.
He's hurt, I pray to Jesus to help him and guide him to eternal life and find pease, and by the looks of things he's been schooled by a child of God.
I might have a different take to some on this. While the vet guy was pretty rude and angry, I think he had a genuine issue with what was being said.
We get a choice, a relationship with God or not. The problem here is that nothing exists without God. He created and sustains all things. To reject God is to reject life itself, that is what hell is, the destruction of the wicked.
This earth is on borrowed time, God has been kind enough to let us live out our days even if we are wicked people, and He does not show favouritism between the righteous and unrighteous.
God cannot help you unless you ask though, and he will help anyone who asks as long as it’s actually in their best interest, like a good father would do. A good father doesn’t just give his child everything the child asks for.
Jesus Christ is the King of Kings ❤ Amen 🙏
I don’t believe a word that “veteran” said.
That's all right. Who are you again?
I’m a veteran but I never disrespect people to prove my point. I wait to scale the entire situation and choose a path to pursue. This guy has a chip on his shoulder and tunnel vision. Truth is a big pill for him to swallow.
😂
Truth is demonstrated dear not asserted, its that which best conforms with the FACTS and EVIDENCE and has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone's "faith" in a specific subjective "God"
Being a veteran is commendable, and I have great respect for veterans. However, the veteran who argued with Cliff faced the morality of God and His divine will with a childlike outlook of 'I want, I want, I want.' When you're fighting in a war, it may seem that God isn't present because you're in the midst of such intense and chaotic situations. But there are countless veterans who are believers in God. My grandfather, Private Dale, served with the Wiltshire Regiment in Devizes. His weapon was a Bren gun, and apart from accidentally falling from a vehicle and having to run, he didn't see much action. He talks respectfully about his experiences and believes in God and Jesus. His biggest pet peeve as a Christian is when someone who doesn't know him calls him a sinner, despite living a full life. I respect him deeply.
Here are some facts: Jews and Gentiles are different but equally loved by God. God allows us to choose, and who turns down a good thing? God is our Father, and He acts as our Father. Jesus is the flesh of God, sent to prove to the Hebrews that He extends His hand out of punishment and to teach key ways to be with Him. The Holy Spirit is the holy aspect of God that lives inside 8 billion people. If you reject God, you will feel His absence until you are ready for Him. Whether you share mercy, forgiveness, understanding, acceptance, hope, or compassion, whether it is the morality of Christ or ethics in science, you are still putting good into the world. Have faith in Jesus, not because you are told you should have faith in Him despite the evidence for or against it, but because you freely choose to.
Praying works when you believe in Him without an attached agenda. Prayers come in forms of comfort, strength, and opportunities. It doesn't always happen instantly; most of the time, it happens in its own time, usually when you need it, not when you want it. If you're hurting and you pray for God to stop the pain, He will give you the opportunity to seek out help, face the challenges, and come out stronger than you were before. He was with you when it happened. He helped me gain a girlfriend, but I had to put in the work to learn. I quit smoking, but I prayed to God for strength, and I received it. After going cold turkey in a house of smokers, I have been without smoking or the feeling of wanting a cigarette, even in intense emotional times, for 151 days. So I am close to Jesus and God, and I know I have a few things to work through. I am still aware of other shortcomings.
Knowledge of FACTS, also called "propositional knowledge", is defined as true belief that is distinct from opinion or guesswork by virtue of justification. A "FACT" is a point of data that is objectively verifiable ( demonstrable ) Absent "Facts" one has only the opinion or guesswork and no justification to claim such knowledge.
Science has all the FACTS yet claims nothing as "absolute" truth. Christianity conversely claims absolute truth in everything yet has no FACTS 😜 To assert as FACT that for which there is insufficient evidence is intellectually dishonesty and essentially no different than a *"LIE"*
// "jews and gentiles are equally loved by God" //
Lol I think you will find that the bible days the former can own the latter as "property" and can keep them forever. However the former group were forbidden from owning each other as they were the superior "chosen people" 🙄
My "morality" tells me that *"Buy your slaves from the heathen nations that surround you"* Is not nor ever was a "moral" instruction and certainly not a moral reference standard that anyone should adhere or aspire to. Do you agree *YES or NO* ?? 🤔
@@trumpbellend6717 Thank you for your thoughtful response.
Propositional Knowledge and Facts: Propositional knowledge relies on verifiable facts, while Christianity, grounded in faith, also offers historical evidence regarding Jesus. Records from Roman and Jewish historians, and the rapid spread of Christianity, provide context and support for His life and impact.
Historical Evidence for Jesus: External records and eyewitness accounts mention Jesus and the early Christian movement, supporting the historical existence and significance of Jesus.
Christian Claims and Intellectual Honesty: Faith-based beliefs in Christianity are deeply rooted in centuries of tradition, personal experiences, and spiritual insights. While they differ from empirical evidence in science, they offer meaningful insights into the human experience.
Faith and Spiritual Experiences: Many individuals have personal spiritual experiences and transformations attributed to their faith in Jesus. While subjective, these experiences are meaningful for those who have them.
Morality and Scriptural Interpretation: Regarding the Bible and morality, it’s important to interpret ancient texts within their historical and cultural contexts. The verse about buying slaves reflects norms of ancient societies, not modern ethical standards. Christians today focus on broader teachings of love, justice, and compassion that Jesus emphasized.
Meaning Behind Leviticus 25:44-46: The passage about buying slaves from surrounding nations reflects the historical and cultural context of ancient Israel. It was part of the societal norms at the time and not intended as a moral standard for all times. Modern Christians interpret such passages within their historical context and focus on the broader ethical teachings of the Bible.
Jesus’ Teachings on Love and Equality: Jesus did not directly address Old Testament laws on slavery, but His teachings on love, compassion, and equality challenge such practices. For example, He emphasized treating others as one would like to be treated (Matthew 7:12), servanthood and humility (John 13:12-17), and loving one's neighbor as oneself (Matthew 22:37-39). The Apostle Paul, in Galatians 3:28, further emphasized spiritual equality, and in Philemon, he urged a Christian slave owner to treat his slave as a brother in Christ.
Complementary Roles of Faith and Science: Faith and science operate in different realms, both providing valuable insights and understanding. They can coexist, offering complementary perspectives on truth and meaning.
As a Christian, I am not blind to faith that I forget historical or scientific knowledge. I believe that everything on Earth, including medicine, physics, chemistry, and biology, is part of God's creation. Science allows us to explore and maintain the world God made. My faith provides comfort, hope, and moral guidance, helping me hold compassion, acceptance, mercy, forgiveness, understanding, and creativity. Whether Jesus is the Son of God may be irrelevant to you, but I believe He holds a moral place and I trust the eyewitness accounts more than opinions from myself, you, or others.
Regarding your specific question: "My 'morality' tells me that 'Buy your slaves from the heathen nations that surround you' is not nor ever was a 'moral' instruction and certainly not a moral reference standard that anyone should adhere or aspire to. Do you agree YES or NO?" My answer is NO.
@@trumpbellend6717 Thank you for your thoughtful response.
Propositional Knowledge and Facts: Propositional knowledge relies on verifiable facts, while Christianity, grounded in faith, also offers historical evidence regarding Jesus. Records from Roman and Jewish historians, and the rapid spread of Christianity, provide context and support for His life and impact.
Historical Evidence for Jesus: External records and eyewitness accounts mention Jesus and the early Christian movement, supporting the historical existence and significance of Jesus.
Christian Claims and Intellectual Honesty: Faith-based beliefs in Christianity are deeply rooted in centuries of tradition, personal experiences, and spiritual insights. While they differ from empirical evidence in science, they offer meaningful insights into the human experience.
Faith and Spiritual Experiences: Many individuals have personal spiritual experiences and transformations attributed to their faith in Jesus. While subjective, these experiences are meaningful for those who have them.
Morality and Scriptural Interpretation: Regarding the Bible and morality, it’s important to interpret ancient texts within their historical and cultural contexts. The verse about buying slaves reflects norms of ancient societies, not modern ethical standards. Christians today focus on broader teachings of love, justice, and compassion that Jesus emphasized.
Meaning Behind Leviticus 25:44-46: The passage about buying slaves from surrounding nations reflects the historical and cultural context of ancient Israel. It was part of the societal norms at the time and not intended as a moral standard for all times. Modern Christians interpret such passages within their historical context and focus on the broader ethical teachings of the Bible.
Jesus’ Teachings on Love and Equality: Jesus did not directly address Old Testament laws on slavery, but His teachings on love, compassion, and equality challenge such practices. For example, He emphasized treating others as one would like to be treated (Matthew 7:12), servanthood and humility (John 13:12-17), and loving one's neighbor as oneself (Matthew 22:37-39). The Apostle Paul, in Galatians 3:28, further emphasized spiritual equality, and in Philemon, he urged a Christian slave owner to treat his slave as a brother in Christ.
Complementary Roles of Faith and Science: Faith and science operate in different realms, both providing valuable insights and understanding. They can coexist, offering complementary perspectives on truth and meaning.
This man no Veteran what’s his name imma search this right now
Just because you wear a uniform doesn't give you a free pass in life..
Just because you believe in a specific subjective "God" doesn't mean you get to impose the perceived whims of your particular subjective "God" upon others dear 🙄
This guy needs prayers. He's angry at God for something.
No, you can't be angry as something that doesn't exist. He was frustrated by Cliffe spewing the nonsense.
@@MG-ot2yrAgain, you’ve done nothing to prove that God doesn’t exist. Explain your claims. Until you prove he doesn’t exist, we won’t believe you.
@@MG-ot2yr Adorable. Him and others like him do know God exists, but they suppress the truth in their unrighteousness.
I may not be a veteran, and I don't claim to understand the struggles of someone who has walked that path. But I believe with all my heart that Jesus still loves and accepts everyone, including the argumentative and those wrestling with anger. His arms are open wide, ready to offer peace, healing, and grace.
I understand how anger and stubbornness can feel overwhelming, but Jesus has a way of softening even the hardest hearts. He doesn’t force Himself on anyone; instead, He gently calls us to lay down our burdens and let Him bring us peace.
I pray that the veteran who is struggling can experience this transformative love. It’s not about being perfect or having all the answers-just a willingness to let Jesus work in our hearts and guide us toward humility and freedom from anger. I say this with love and hope, trusting in the power of His grace.
I am currently playing for this sheep :)
Why can’t nonbelievers ever stick to one subject?
They are searching for a weakness or a flaw in the opponent. When one question is answered then another must be asked.
Why can't believers ever answer a question with logic?
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z you tried it. But W bot comment…I guess 🤷🏾♂️
@@marcedmonson W bot comment? Been hitting the sauce?
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z so instead of addressing my initial comment/question you completely deflect and insult in return? Just like the guy in the video? Intriguing 🧐
Putting ones trust in someone unseen - rather - revealed through words and nature is not easy.
The initial step has to be the hardest because we all do what we think is right for ourselves.
The Christian understand: Yahusha is within - so the "self" is replaced by the Will of the Father in Heaven.
Thus ... Christians seek to put the wellbeing of others before themselves - and learn to trust in their brethren to reciprocate (love).
Those who cling to the serving of self have trust issues - because they fear being controlled.
This is sad - because they are controlled by fear.