Is ZZ GUNDAM Transgressive, Obscurely Genius or Just Plain BIZARRE?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มี.ค. 2021
- ZZ GUNDAM is a series that not a lot of people have seen because of its infamy as a very weird show. It's Zeta Gundam's sequel but the way it starts is super different from the way Zeta ended... and a lot of fans think that it doesn't live up to the expectations.
And in this video, Absa tells us why he thinks that ZZ Gundam is a weird series that in reality is not that bad... not if you have a different perspective about the events that happen in the first half of the series. And to be honest, the ending is not that bad and ties up very neatly all of the previous loose threads of Universal Century.
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When I describe ZZ to my friends I tell them to imagine they were watching the Pokemon anime then after twenty or so episodes team rocket is blown up and killed when Misty suicide bombs herself to save Ash and Brock and Ash and Brock do not notice or care.
Hahah you just answered the question "What if Tomino wrote and directed Pokemon?"
@@absa HAHAHAHHAAA!!
And then it's good for a handful of episodes and then completely shits the bed for the ending. ZZ is absolutely not worth watching, I wish I had just read a summary instead of watching it.
@@chstens on the contrary, I liked it a lot. I liked the change of pace from Zeta and light hearted first episodes and then it was just good Gundam after that. I preferred the character interaction in ZZ and i vibed more with Judeau than Kamille.
@@kdiamond12 Well, for me not a single joke landed, it was about as funny as a bag of rocks, and I couldn't stand any of the new characters. The fact that Judeau didn't have a speck of character development didn't help either. He is the exact same character from start to finish, no growth, no nothing. The only characters with "growth" I guess are his traitorous bastard friends who at one point decides to not sell out everyone to Zeon, but that's it.
I personally perceived the first half of the series as Judau and his friends still not truly understanding the weight of war but as soon as Judau’s sister was shot at, he realizes that the situation he and his friends put themselves in isn’t just a game anymore. The reality that their lives are at stake hits them hard. At least that’s what I think.
I think Judau is the only early UC character who appears in a late UC story, albeit in mangas. He's an old man in F91 and Victory manga. He still pilots his ZZ.
Personally, I took the beginning of ZZ as as reminder that there is still a world outside of the battle field. Take a wrong turn, forced or by accident, and you can find yourself getting tossed into a pile of nonsense, and more craziness.
The crippled Argama with their options few and far between just happened upon one of those crazy situations, before getting catapulted back into battles.
In a way I feel by design, Gundam does have to door open to such event happening. It won't always be a kid/teen getting sideswiped by a colony attack and stumbling onto the super experimental mobile suit, but sometimes stumbling onto it in a less than idea manner
The tragic thing about ZZ is that people only tend to remember it for the first half. I think its important to recognise that ZZ and Z tell a single complete story. Neo Zeon are introduced in Z but that show only resolves the Titans conflict. ZZ picks up from where Z ended with no time jump and resolves the threat of Neo Zeon. But after the 50 episodes of Z, which was had a serious and dark tone from episode 1-50, I can see why the decision was made to seriously lighten the tone for a time and give the audience a bit of respite, before going full on Zeta for the second half which is some of the darkest stuff gundam ever did. I think the original plan was that Char would be in the place of Glemy in the Neo Zeon civil war, which is where he would resolve his rivalry with Amuro, however this changed when CCA got the greenlight so they were moved to the movie and left out of ZZ entirely, which gives ZZ a bit more room to breath in terms of telling judau's story. And I think that light hearted first half, which matures into Z's original tone, was a great way of illustrating how war robs child soldiers of their innocence.
Yes. Dunno mostly i found people easily quick judge ZZ as a bad bcs only remembering the first half.
Until it reach the colony drop, it turns damn dark and tragic.
I'm too scared to watch this show. Hopefully they remake it fixing the first half, and not mention Camille's recovery.
@@KennyOmegasCavity its not bad
Like truly
It’s bizarre, the last couple of episodes took all of the build up away: the sister didn’t die, Camille rushes in for the save, no Char bridge between Zeta to Char’s Counterattack etc.
@@WorldsGreatestRingAnnouncer no bridge between this and CCA seems more of a CCA problem
PLE 2 was a great character because for some reason some of the conditioning or something must have failed and she was fully self aware or self-actualized. She knew exactly what she was, a dangerous secret weapon needed by Glemy and she was willing to use him and that role for her own reasons. She was never in his control and she knew that he was desperate to wake her up early so she had that leverage. All the other PLE series were fully conditioned and little more than slave soldiers. Even Marida, years later, never was properly able to escape her conditioning and still had triggers built in.
The world needs more gundam videos
people need to be reminded to not have their souls weighed down by gravity
I personally rank Judau highly on my favorite Gundam protagonists list, in a way he was more of an immature everyman character who ended up in a serious situation that forced him to slowly grow up and also he's one of the more optimistic Gundam protagonists in the UC era plus he ends up becoming a "badass granpa" in Mobile Suit Crossbone Gundam: Skull Heart and Mobile Suit Victory Gundam Outside Story.
Also while some hardcore fans tend to have a hateboner for the show, it was actually quite popular and popular enough that it beat iconic anime like Slayers and Tetsujin 28 in a end of the millennium Top 100 Anime poll conducted by TV channel Animax, the men's magazine Brutus and the video rental chain Tsutaya.
I hated ZZ at first, but by the end it was my favourite Gundam. I've nearly watched every Gundam since then and it's still up there.
I'd say the shift starts with the "Cry Baby Cecilia" arc, starting at that arc, this series isn't afraid to wrench your heart again.
It's silly the kids are throwing oranges, but that's because they're afraid to actually kill anyone. By the end they grow and are comfortable using firearms.
The series is actually becomes pretty good, and I now include most of the series when rewatch the UC series, but it's not for everyone.
True, ZZ is a series that starts out silly but gradually becomes darker and darker... too bad many people didn't stayed to the end.
I definitely agree with "The biggest weakness of ZZ is that it follows Zeta"; I definitely recommend giving yourself a break between the two so the tone shift won't give you whiplash, haha.
Gotta disagree hard about the first half, though; I think it's hilarious, but it also shows how even the most optimistic and goofy people are ground down by the war. In that orange fight, Yazan straight up murders a dude, but Judau and his friends don't really understand what just happened; it's a way of showing that crap is still happening but our new perspective characters aren't really engaging with it yet. Watching them slowly realize and accept the crap around them is a huge reason to watch the first half.
It also could really help to know that Mashymere and Chara are cyber-newtypes as well, which made all their goofy hijinks make so much more sense and hold much more dramatic weight.
Great video!
As I was researching for the vid I found out a lot of stuff of the overall Neo Zeon plot and even the Gundam Team, so even though my words seem kind of harsh, I do think that the first half is necessary. It may not be for everyone, but I believe that Tomino really did a good job with ZZ, it's just that Zeta was amazing... and sometimes, at least for me, the humor was very sappy.
I really hope that ZZ eventually gets a movie trilogy.
Mashmyrre's kinda tragic in that he sees himself as a noble knight but is utterly broken by Dublin
The thing about ZZ is that it is pretty much required watching to get the most out of Unicorn.
Unicorn borrows a ton of concepts machine design from ZZ. It’s most compelling character is from ZZ (Marida Cruz, who is a Ple clone), the return of numerous ZZ era mobile suits, Banagher himself having a lot of similarities to Judau, the Nahel Argama and how it is employed in combat.
ZZ isn’t my favorite show in the series. But I did really enjoy Haman (who is the standout character IMO) and Judau is a good protagonist. Plus the mobile suit designs tell a story in and of itself. It’s a war fought between prototypes on all sides, with very few “grunt” units.
What I mean by that is that every major mobile suit design in ZZ is technologically superior to the stuff that came afterwards for the most part with a few exceptions. It was the high water mark of UC design, where costs were no object.
Too bad it does a complete disservice to Haman by forcing her character into a pigeonhole of repeating the boring and predictable colony drop for evil’s sake, despite already winning the war, for no true good reason whatsoever. It’s a completely stupid waste of an interesting setting where Zeon had won Earth, and it treaded old ground that led us to a situation where we instantly remove the Earth conquest arc and rush to space to kill her so that they can set up CCA. Really dissatisfied with the waste of her character and the Guerrilla Earth fighting that could have happened, with a redemption for her. As far as I’m concerned, ZZ ain’t canon in the slightest
I actually think the time they get the ZZ is where ZZ gets so good. That's episode 11. People complain too much and exaggerate 20+ episodes being stupid.
But what is 'internet-hate' if not exaggeration persevering? Haha, but yeah, ZZ is not that terrible, it may really only have a few bad episodes but people only focus on those.
I would say the first good episode is episode 8 when they leave the colony and it’s pretty exciting. Then after that it’s inconsistent in quality, but I haven’t got to episode 26, so I don’t know
If you watch the first interactions between Haman and Judea in the first half of the series, you can see how Haman thought Judea was Char, probably this event cause some kind of attraction between both, the same happens when Haman shoot his sister, she felt overwhelming for his newtype abilities, she run away feeling sick about what happen in that moment.
Judea has this attraction ability different the others Newtypes, that make me think about Scirocco powers, like Elpeo Ple obsession with him, she just doesn't felt in love with him, she never wants to be far from him, like he was a messiah or something, all the cast of Argama always putting they hope in him, Chara reacting weird when he spoke ti her, and Haman probably felt this too.
I don´t know, is just my theory and how i saw it, Judea most of the times, success in the mission without killing anybody, haman took her life, Glemy shoot by Roux, Mashymre explodes... For me Judea just wants to stop war talking nor fighting, Kamille try it, but he succumbed by the AEUG ironfist, something that doesn´t happen with Judea, and all of that make him like a pure newtype.
ZZ is not stupid, we have a new cast of junkyard kids. Whatever we had in Zeta is not gonna be present with these kids. That's it. Moon Moon is not a silly arc. I enjoyed it.
Maybe my phrasing was not the best but, I never said that ZZ as a whole is stupid... what I meant was that the first couple of episodes seem stupid compared to what happened in Zeta.
As you say, once we embrace the fact that "whatever we had in Zeta is not gonna be present with these kids" ZZ becomes really enjoyable.
@@absa I think the difference here is that Kamille from the beginning was never depicted as particularly child like. He seems to adapt pretty quickly to an adult world, more even than Amuro. In the first episode he has no qualms trying to fight a titan for making fun of his name. He gets corrected once by Wong Lee for being late due to finding a "toy" (haro) but then he turns into an exemplary officer immediately - this isnt all that realistic but works for that show and its time. In ZZ, however, it's a whole group of kids who really do still act like kids and they take alot longer to adapt and understand the world they've been thrust into together, their childhood innocence is slowly erroded away with what they experience and the tone of the series shifts at that point when they've finally adapted to the true nature of their circumstances. I think ZZ was far, far more successful at shining a light on child soldiers and the tragedy of children having to experience war and the effects that has on the innocence of childhood
I personally love zz and i find it silly that people really think this new cast of characters should feel the pain of zeta and the i hate how people say the first half is trash its actually good and the new cast is good also judau is an amazing character who while is childish he make alot of good adult decisions and he cares alot about his friends
Please please PLEASE keep making these videos. Your videos & channel deserve so many more views given the fantastic quality and passion you put into them. I'm looking forward to your video for Char's Counter Attack (my personal favorite entry in the series) and all the others!
Thank you for your words!
Absolutely loving your commentaries! Can't wait for your take on Char's Counter Attack
Thank you very much for your kind words!
ZZ is definitely my favorite UC series. I'd love to see the remake movie trilogy with modern art and animation.
How can you say these words? Double ZZ is the worst I have seen form gundam.
@@eumeliovazquezjr1630 Idk man, I just like it. The comedic nature at the start is a great relief from the drama and stress that was Zeta, and the second half is just peak Gundam. Judau and his crew mature so much by the end, the final fight between Judau and Haman is legendary (Char vs Haman might be a bit better, still), and there's an all star line up of MS from the whole Gundam Team, Hamma-Hamma, Zaku III, Doven Wolf, Qubeley Mk.II, and the Bawoo. It's good shit.
@@Ryio5 if you like it that is fine but the fights were horrible until the last battle. The comedy did not exist anywhere, rose dude at the beginning has to be the worst pilot ever with a noticeable rank. Characters die sometimes and the show dose not even say they died like puru 1 and 2. I had to look up if they really died or not cause they don’t talk about it at all or show anything. Bright leaves a new ship to just the kids, which is just a retarded idea. And haman and judau fight was boring special. Moon moon could have just been skipped really. It’s a 3 out of 10 show.
@@eumeliovazquezjr1630 I'm sorry you feel that way
I love the comedy but the middle to final half is nonsensical, and mishandles so many good characters and storylines for no good reason. I love the ZZ cast so much, especially Haman, so seeing how she gets turned into Gihren 2.0 for no reason and then robbed of all her agency over a love quest just to kill herself for no reason is incredibly stupid, insulting to her great character in Zeta, and a waste of my time
You make my absolute favorite Gundam videos. Keep up the good work, brother!
Thanks a lot for your words!
I just finished my second watch of double Zeta and I gotta say I like it even more this time. I caught way more stuff this time and I think Judau is one of my favorite Gundam pilots now
This is probabbly one of the best videos i've seen.
THANK YOU TH-cam RECOMMENDATIONS
This is a great channel. You deserve way more subs
Cuando vi esa cara te reconocí de inmediato, Gracias por tus reseñas de 00, IBO y entre otras en español que me iniciaron a comenzar en este franquicia.❤
I love gundam zz so much. One of my favourites
Looooove your collection in the back!
ZZ is probably my favorite UC series un-ironically, idk why
Haha that's because it's really a good series, it just gets a bad rap because of the tonal shift from Zeta.
Same! Honestly love the comedy elements, in a weird way they make it feel more grounded and realistic :D
@@absa I wholeheartedly agree! The tonal shift was weird when I first watched this series BUT my second watch through it makes a lot more sense and I’m loving it. ZZ also ties into the manga Moon Gundam too.
The colony drop is one of the best arcs in all of Gundam for me
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I think Judau is manlier than Amuro or Kamille, because of how he make quick decisions despite the situation or his emotions throughout the entire story. And imagine how a 14 year old boy can make a strong-willed young woman fall for him without trying!
Tomino was super depressed by the time of ZZ and the fact that fans were depressed by the end of Zeta saddened him greatly to the point that he tried to make it happier only to have that back firer.
As for Haman's feeling towards Judau she clings to him the same way Char clings to Amuro. By the time of ZZ Haman is basically a nihilist. She has lost every thing she loved. She thinks she blew Char up and She has lost the real Minerva. All she has left is her desire to gain ultimate power using the fake Minerva. Judau reminds Haman of a mix of Char and herself. The fact that Judau is still trying to save her beings Haman some small comfort.
My biggest complaint with ZZ is that Char and Amuro are not in the show. They should have returned after the colony drop. Theres even the part where Bright is told that they are being sent two elite pilots only for them to end up being nobodies. Judau would have worked well as a foil to Char keeping him grounded and trying to understand the other side.
The final fight should have been Judau fighting Glemy with Amuro going full chad on the clones and Char fighting Haman. It could have ended with Char linking with Haman and talking her down only to have her killed by a random fedi while they were still linked. It would have worked well to remind Char of Lalah's death and gave Char more of a moral high ground to stand on while breaking the idealist part of him. He would have had his moment of hope in that maybe people can truly reach understanding only to have it taken from him. This would have worked well for his hatred of the federation viewing them as the true enemy of spacenoids creating a us against them narrative while also feeding in to his anger towards Amuro for not fixing every thing and even going as far as to protect the federation.
Sayla and Kamille could also have now been in CCA with out being able to talk Char down as now his reply to them would simply be I am doing this for you, It would have worked well to set Char up as a full tragic character going in to CCA.
ZZ Gundam: Everytime the Argama docks in a colony shit gets weird.
25 episodes…is not just “a couple of episodes” that’s like a whole season!
Of course Bright has PTSD remember when he was under so much stress in Gundam 79 that he couldn't get out of bed for a week?
UC series upto Hathaway's flash is Bright's 5 stages of grief.
Ehhh I get that the beginning is tonal whiplash but I think it’s a bit much to say it was essentially all in Bright’s head.
I’ve lightened up a lot on this series over the years I think the moment of brevity after Zeta is actually kind of welcome. It all reflects the new perspective of Judau and co and establishes that he’s a very different character than Kamille and even Amuro. He’s a troublemaker, but in many ways he’s a lot more better adjusted to his world than the previous two protagonists and the tone of the first part reflects that.
Even when the series darkens a lot as the characters become more accustomed to the weight of what’s going on, Judau’s Everyman nature, including his very warm connections to people and hus friends, contrasts more and more from characters like Haman which I’ve come to see as them showing us how separated from “ground level” humanity many of the Gundam characters are. I’d even argue that’s what Haman sees and maybe envies in Judau eventually.
Plus the series has Roux.
i thinking that it was Tomino do this for the first half of ZZ because of the pressure toy company that will be his answer. if anybody asks why the shift in the tone of the serise. i think it goes something like this: "ok we got the budget for half of the things i want along with the quality i want it. how do i get for another half? ok i will tell those toy company my new series with half-truth along with this supposedly first draft this series. i can not lie to them with the same tactic twice with Space Runaway Ideon again." that is what i would like to think to happen.
Amuro: Coward-ish genius kid
Kamille: Rebellious genius kid
Judau: Rebellious junkyard boi 😂🤣
the tone started to change on ep 18 more specifically ep 20 got dark. ZZ Gundam is my favorite UC Gundam it gave a hopeful message/ ending and a happy ending for the last season of Zeta Gundam. Zeta is a great Gundam show but I would love a hopeful message than a depressing one.
I love this show, even for all its faults. Great video showcasing the weirdness and good qualities of this show!
So the real reason why the tone switch for MSG: Zeta to ZZ because at the time Yoshiyuki Tomino was going through dark depression when he wrote and made Zeta so the atmosphere was dark and gritty. Later he wanted to change that for the better since he was much better and wanted to lighten up the mood on ZZ after the darkest season ever.
Haman Karn is bae asf
Haman best girl... and also, The OG Red-Haired Tsundere!
I think my favorite episode was one of the last episodes of ZZ: Tigerbaum Dream (episode #40). It is also, in my opinion, the most hilarious episode. This is the last stop before the Nahel Argama hits zeek central out at Side 3, so they stop at Tigerbaum Colony. This is when all the women of Nahel Argama get captured by the colony ruler, and the lads dress up like women to free them all. When they are discovered, the only mobile suits available are old Zeon marine uglies from the One Year War: old Z'goks, Goggs, and so on. And then, out of nowhere, there's this Acguy that just owns all! When the pilot gets revealed, you figure out why.
This is the kind of episode that could have only happened in ZZ. And I think it also captures the essence of what makes this series different.
All of Gundam, but UC Gundam in particular, tends to revolve around a single protagonist. Yes, Judau is "the guy." But it's the TEAM that is important--far more important than it was in MS Gundam or Zeta. Beecha, Roux, Leeno, Mondo, Elle, Lino, Ple--even Lena--aren't just window dressing. All of them are flawed characters, and Judau might be the most flawed out of them all. But when they work together, they can build on their strengths, and have their flaws put in check.
Compare this to Neo-Zeon. It had the best pilot, bar none, in Haman Khan. Her skills were second to none, but individual skills weren't going to cut it when the other side works as a team. And Neo-Zeon didn't work as a team. They sent one commander after another, and so the flaws of each commander became magnified. First there was Cello, a good MS pilot and commander, but with a romantic side that was his undoing. Then Chara Soon, who was very much opposite of Cello, a lush that took nothing seriously. Then there was Gottin, who was more interested in complicated schemes than results. Then there was Glemy, who was driven by lust for Roux, then Lena. Then there was Rakkan, driven by aggression. Same thing when they hit earth. You had a series of capable assets: Anu, Desert Rommel, Guidan, the Blue Unit...all of them capable, but none of them working together. When they hit space, this inability of Neo-Zeon to work together resulted in the factional split between Haman and Glemy.
So the lesson here? You don't need to be a powerful newtype, in a powerful prototype MS, to win. It helps, but what is more important is working together, and trusting one another to do their parts. Bright Noah had complete faith in these kids to get the job done without him when the final push to Side 3 came. And they picked up the slack. That doesn't come across so much in other Gundam stories from the UC. But it's a central theme in ZZ.
Bright Noah had a lot of impressive commands, and lots of talented crews...far more talented and serious than the crew he had in ZZ. But of all the tours of duty Bright did, only ONE of those crews came back with everyone alive at the end of it, and that was the crew he had in ZZ.
Something to think about.
I like your take on ZZ, it’s very insightful. I however wish that the respect for certain characters was maintained a bit more. I also wish characters like Mashymre had gotten more time to develop than moldy wet rags like Glemy.
Hold on ima come back to this vid after work
Can’t wait to see kemile in unicorn
Haha did you get to watch the vid?
First 21 episodes has a lot of goofy scenes. but I'm still entertained. Still recommended to watch.
I always remember ZZ as the gundam series in which Haman is HUNGRY for judua.
Where is that picture of the higher detail version of Haman's crown from?
At the end of Zeta.. It had become my favourite gundam series then jumped to ZZ and I immediately droped it ... lol
So, it was explained that during Zeta Gundam Tomino suffered from depression, so Zeta actually embodies all this darkness into it, for ZZ he did came back to himself and didn't want the show to be so dark.
But eventually things will come back to be grim, but a bit more optimistic this time.
I’m pretty sure that he was still depressed. If you look at his filmography it switches from dark to light with each show. It’s just how he makes his stories.
I just finished watching ZZ. I didn't mind the first 12 episodes, I think the comedy helps establish the new cast, after Moon Moon the show is back on track, I don't think you have to wait until episode 26. I didn't like the ending though, it felt like going back to the worst aspects of Zeta and Tomino's writting.
The first half of the series is refocusing the camera on the smaller parts of life in space, which is why there's so much attention paid to Shangri-La colony and Marshymere's antics. Even in space poverty is reproduced, which is why Judau & friends are so remarkably different from every other Gundam protagonist up to that point, who were both from upper middle class families and had top quality educations. The kids are brash and self-serving because that's the kind of culture that raised them. It's the same deal with how weird Marshymere is. Marshymere is weird because the NeoZeonics have been living in their own world on Axis for 7 years, and they're totally alienated from the social reality of the Inner Sphere. Marshymere represents a core of young officers who only know a life in exile where they've been raised up on all sorts of false notions about Zeonic nobility which they're attempting to live up to. Gottn is the only member of Marshymere's crew who even has a self-preservation instinct, because there's that scene where all the junior mobile suit pilots beg for their chance to die on one of Marshymere's hairbrained counter-insurgency schemes.
Great video! I hope you do all the series in UC. I watched all of original MSG and I want to absorb all of UC, but I just don't have the time to watch all the series. Which stories/series are absolutely necessary/important in UC? I figured I'd watch the important stuff and watch the movies/summaries of others. Thanks!
Thank you! And yes, I'll try to cover all of UC, first the main series and maybe then the spinoffs. As to how to absorb the main UC my recommendation is to watch the MSG compilation trilogy to refresh you memory, then all of Zeta (the compilation movie trilogy of Zeta doesn't get the job done), you can maybe omit ZZ or even check out the summary in a wiki and/or watch the final fight between Judau and Haman, CCA it's a must and then the Unicorn OVA's. And even though I did liked Narrative, the story is more like an afterword to Unicorn... it's not really that important. With that, I think you'll be prepared for the next movie trilogy: Hathaway's Flash.
Obe thing about ZZ does better than the previous series, that I think you left out, was that it was the first Gundam series to devote significant amount of time to world building, at least world building that didnt pertain to the over-arcing conflict: We see colonies like Shangri-La and Moon Moon that were existing outside of the war, in Moon Moon's case were cut off completely of the events and conflicts, and see how the people wen ton with their lives OUTSIDE of the main characters and the forces driving the drama. We wouldn't see this kind of world building until the likes of 0080: War in the Pocket, and 0083: Star Dust Memories.
Not going to lie. yes. from the serious, epic zeta with great side characters and major and minor villains. When I first watched double zeta I was like wtf is this Saturday cartoons. Granted I understand for any new series it has to be different from its predecessor.
I personally really love ZZ. Zeta for me was a bit tedious and uninteresting. It felt like a series of missed opportunities. But I really love the characters and themes of ZZ. Admittedly after Leinas "death" it does have ALOT of filler episodes but I still think it's great. But I think you're kinda overthinking the first half though. Tomino ended Zeta on a depressing note and wanted to make fans feel a little better about life and so made ZZ more light hearted. And it's not like the series wasn't at least a little bit dark before the Leinas Blood arc. The episodes before could get genuinely kinda depressing. They really humanized Neo Zeon in episodes like the blue team arc of that one female pilot of the red gelgoog
I am unsure where is exactly the tedious and uninteresting parts in Z Gundam, where do you think are exactly the plot part or chapters that are tedious?
@@danballe well what I mean is that it felt like every episode followed a formula (not saying that's a bad thing) but it was every episode started with Titans being up to no good, the AEUG finding out about it, the AEUG stopping them in some way. Plus I just think the dialogue was just so flat. It was to get invested when everyone said stuff that didn't really leave an impact. Also so many get good set ups for interesting arcs but then they just forget about them. Like Jerid wants revenge but then he doesn't. Apolly had a crush on Emma and then they just forgot about it, Char tried to convince the people of earth to stop the titans but nothing comes out of that either. I just found it hard to enjoy a liner show when it feels like there's no development. Plus the Titans barely got any characterisation besides "nyheh I'm evil!" Despite having an awesome premise for an antagonist faction, and it was so hard to take them seriously when they just loose every fight their in. After a while I started rooting for the titans just because I wanted something different to happen. That's not to say the show didn't have it's moment or likeable characters but it just didn't give me much of an emotional reaction.
I don't hate or even dislike Zeta but I think the reason why I feel the way I do about it is that I just don't get get why so many people say it's incredible. I thought it was just ok and didn't fully utilise it's awesome ideas and premises. Though I don't deny the influence and impact it had. Alot of the stuff I love about Gundam IBO (my favourite Gundam show) and Gundam Thunderbolt (my favourite UC show) were clearly inspired by Zeta
Wow you were very proud of the thumbnail were you?
My favorite part of double zeta is how char kinda just decided to peace out.
ZZ is like JoJo; it's tragic (the Ples' deaths hit me hard) but somehow there is humor, joy and hope in the middle of all the tragedy.
So yeah, definitely *bizarre*
Great show can't wait for the next show about chars counter attack as I have questions about that movie. Please can you go explain how this movie comes to be in the story of the uc, as I wished it has a bit more explanation of how it fits in after zeta and zz, ad we never find out how this new conflict starts and how char survived and took on the mantle as the head of zeon.
A small ova or movie between ZZ and Char's Counterattack would be perfect
I thought the manga Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack - Beltorchika's Children was that?
@@jpr7601 I'm not a big comic or manga reader so I like having things explained to me.
The novel and manga, Beltorchika’s Children does a better job of explaining that since that was the (IIRC) the original vision to the movie but it’s bogged by unnecessary changes but people were just happy to get a resolution to Char and Amuro’s arc. I really wish that they would have added Amuro’s child, Char’s motivations and relationships with everyone in the cast.
Hopefully in the future Sunrise decides to remake CCA as OVA's where we get to see all that transpired between the ending of ZZ and the start of Unicorn. They could even use it to show us different versions of the Nu Gundam/Hi Nu and the Sazabi/Nightingale and, obviously, sell new modelkits as a MGEX/PG or so.
Have you seen Space Runaway Ideon? It would be interesting to see you cover it in relation to the Universal Century Timeline
As a matter of fact I haven't but more and more people are telling me to do... So I should probably get started haha.
@@absa Yes. so should I.
Hey man, appreciate your videos
As you go though you might want to tighten the writing a little bit - especially going off topic to talk about CCA and stuff like that, while somewhat relevant, kind of bogs down the momentum of the video and makes it drag a bit.
Just something to think about, looking forward to your CCA and UC videos!
Thanks for you tip, I'll try to deviate less in future vids... it's just that I get exited and start rambling of other things that I like haha.
@@absa Thanks for the reply! And yeah especially with Gundam there's a lot of connections to other shows, it just kinda slowed down the pacing in this particular example so I wanted to mention it
Judau also appears in Crossbone Gundam and V Gundam. Without a doubt he's unique.
Gotta love the Gump
ZZ gets a real bad rap. I definitely get that the tonal shift from the dour, gritty, depressing and complicated plot of Zeta is hard for a lot of viewers to go from that to a more goofy and humorous tone isn’t easy. I completely didn’t mind this because I found Zeta poorly explains a lot of its elements, its characters mostly infuriating and confusing (except for Char and Kamille) and it’s far too dour with little carharsis given. Not that Zeta doesn’t have aspects I like, like the mecha designs and bringing a lot to the UC lore.
ZZ on the other hand while the Mashymre arc goes on far way longer than it should, it was nice to have a bit of comedic relief after how Zeta ended. Judau might be the coolest and most entertaining Gundam protagonist out there and Cecilia the Crybaby easily one of the single best stories in an anime ever.
I think at this point ZZ should have just been a spinoff and it would have been received better since it didn’t follow the tone of the last two series, doesn’t have as much impact to the timeline outside of a few elements brought up later in Unicorn.
Hope they put some Amuro scenes in ZZ. Judau did not even see Amuro.
I'd argue the tone shift happened before Lina getting shot. You see it when Torres' girlfriend blows herself up and a majority of the comedic characters die
I swear if just take out those mayan moon princess eps that make this series alot less strange.
I still don't know what hell they doing there.
I really tried liking ZZ, really made an effort to enjoy it the best I could. Tried my best to see all the best things in it and ignore the bad, even managed to soldier on through a few episodes just to see the battle scenes because you can't go wrong with giant robots shooting each other.
But boy oh boy, I just couldn't. It just didn't feel like it took place in the same universe as Zeta, especially since the show is supposed to take place less than a day after it. ZZ felt like I watching an abridged series. All the characters seemed like parodies when compared to Zeta.
By the time the show picked up, it was already tainted by the foolishness of the first half. I couldn't disconnect the two and ended up not enjoying it either. Not for me, I guess.
It's weird because I actually like comedy and gag anime. I love the likes of OPM, Dr. Slump, GTO and etc. But the wiplash from Zeta was so huge that I believe it ruined the show from me. And the Gundam ZZ is actually one my favorite suits.
Honestly, I regret watching it. In hindsight I feel like I should've just looked up a summary and moved on to Char's counterattack.
You know, I don't really regret watching it, since it has a couple of great moments... but I definitely believe that instead of Z, ZZ is in desperate need for a compilation trilogy that removes all of the dorky parts and concentrates on the important stuff.
You need more Gundams in your set, and I know you have them but off camera
Tie like a tie tin like the metal for titan, but zz was great. I just skip the moon moon arc lol
They also changed zz mid way to fit CCA since it started production before zz finished
Totally agree about Tomino being bad at writing women… Turn A and Reconguista are so bad about that imo
Origin, Char’s Counterattack, Stardust Memory and Unicorn please
Definitely... the next story to explore is CCA and then probably Unicorn. The spinoffs will get covered later though haha.
I feel like ZZ is very under-appreciated BUT at the same time I can't bring myself to call it a fantastic series. The Gundam franchise always feel they're disconnected with children fans (aged around 8-10 or the pokemon aged fans) so every once in awhile they would put kids into the series to try to attract this age group of fans (example: Gundam Victory, Gundam AGE and all the Build series). ZZ is prolly one of the 1st series where they just went full frontal with different ideas and experiments to try to attract different crowds. You gotta remember, Gundam Zeta was so good yet so sad in the end, they couldn't do another heavy series like that. Personally I love Haman Karn, Judo Ashta and Roux Louka! They're my go to pilot for SRW or G-Gen series!
I’m also surprised that Victory, F91, UC and NT don’t get the same flak considering that they also don’t stack up to Zeta’s contributions either and aren’t exactly stellar other than at the time people really wanted to see Char and Amuro back and weren’t happy they never got any screentime.
That was probably it.. people wanted to see the conclusion of Char and Amuro's conflict in ZZ and Tomino didn't delivered it so maybe that's why people disliked even more the story of ZZ.
you plan to review VOTOMS?
I haven't really seen the series, my only knowledge is that Okawara was the mecha designer. Maybe I'll get to it once I tell everything I have planned for Gundam.
Why is there an h in Abhsalonikas if your name is Absa?
If hamen survive she would start over with juadu Start a new path and help life.
The deserved ending
The theory of the first half being a representation of Bright trying to cope with the grimness at the end of Zeta is really interesting. I honestly liked the fun parts of ZZ as they are but seeing them from that angle changes everything
Interesting way looking at zz
Haha thanks, it was my way to retcon the first half of ZZ.
I have to agree with you with that that woman is the most 80s woman I have ever seen😂
you tube is forcing me to watch a double ad every 3 min or so. That's it YT piss off I'm getting ad block on my laptop too.
Dooo Eeet. Block all that garbage!
If Gundam was a Saturday morning cartoon show here in the states, this series ZZ (Double Zeta) Gundam, Victory Gundam, Mobile Fighter G Gundam, or the Build series (which came later) would be the perfect fit 4 any kid's TV lineup. ZZ is sometimes silly, Victory is childish (it's both dark & silly @ times), G Gundam is like shonen series taking place during a tournament w/ giant robots, & the Build series is a hobby meets virtual competition spinoff.
Do u know what's way more sillier & stupid than ZZ Gundam, Absa? It's Doozybotz. Believe or not, Doozybotz is part of the lowest spectrum of the Gundam franchise. It would've been the 1st Gundam show 2b pitch 2 American audiences more than a decade b4 Gundam Wing was seen stateside, but Doozybotz was canceled as soon as it was proposed (thank goodness) & only a pilot episode was made.
Judau is a much more likable hero than Kamille and his dynamic with Haman is very well done; even Haman's feelings makes sense. He reminds her of her own lost innocence, while Judau is enough of an idealist that he wants to help her despite what she's done.....and yet it's not enough.
Honestly, I am sick of ppl that can't see past levity; get a sense of humour, really. - Grab a cup of coffee. I got things to say! 😉
ZZ is probably the most important shift in the entire UC series. Zeta was a very anti-corporate, re-interpretation of the original Gundam; for its GenX, very anti-corporate, anti-Cold war culture.
Given that Zeta & ZZ were originally envisaged as one story; its not really surprising that ZZ, first act (of 3 acts), begins somewhat light hearted; considering how Zeta ended on sych heavy note. Thus, until Judau comes face to face with Haman on Tigerbaum. Then the second act begins.
Its not really essential to the UC narrative, that people understand what took place prior to the One Year War, or prior to the announcement of the "Earth reclamation project". Its enough that people comprehend that, that project is central to the entire UC narrative. Even up to Hathaway.
By the mid 1980's discourse was dominated by exposing massive corporate pollution of Earths, various biomes.
In the pre-history to the UC era of the Gundam continuity. This had evolved to a point where corporations, together with various minority ideologues would attempt to re-author Earths history, to effect a massive grab bag of equity (highway robbery, basically). - Minorities to rewrite a preferred history they would included themselves in for herecitary rights (basically a degenerates grift); the big corporations attempting to nullify existing global laws they have long since percieved as being in the way of their progress.
This erupted into a short period of massive genetic manipulation via the rise of the "new body corporate", interlocked directorships, revolving around PMCs. The whole super-soldier thing (very 80's) being the origin of the bio-chemically augmented, 'cyberization projects' that haphazardly became institutionalised. - The basic premise of which is, "evolution is too slow for our needs". - Thus would resurrect as the 'cyber Newtype' initiative later on.
Through which it was discovered that, its actually quite possible mankind will naturally develop a heightened sense of consciousness. That living in space could actually be the catalyst for spurious adaptation; and thus why genetic industries were abandoned beyond horticulture, by that point.
However before that point, humanity had, had enough! - Without any real need for orgaisation, they just unilaterally turned on the entire system all over the planet, in order to reinstitute hereditary society back on track. Unfortunately, several thermonuclear devices were set off during the very short conflict; which although didn't kill many people, did make even less room available for Earths growing population.
Sometime after the dust settles, humanity begins a discourse on what the actual merits are in colonising our space? Which proved very popular among humanity. - and once proven steps exampled the possibility, the 'Universal Co-prosperity' (Universal Century) was announced. Von Braun moon city was established on the moon; and from there we began dragging space rocks closer to Earthsphere (Earths magnetosphere) for mineral resources to build it all. Achieved by understanding how properly the moon is tethered to our Earth. - All in an effort to get off Earth and give the planet a chance to quickly regenerate. - this is the "Earth reclamation project". Now understand, 'we chose to do this'. Keep that in mind. Of course, the main proponents of moving mankind into outter space was religion (as if it would be anybody else 😃).
Political representatives from all over the planet, as well the the massive public service corporations, together with humanity; discovered very rapid progress once we got into space. Not just out of necessity. Every thing about who we are, and our whole history, counts.
Side 1 & 2 were created as transport hubs (with few colonies), but Side 3 colony bunch, was actually the first mass settlement, and the furthest away. The first thing people did, was go where they could be of the most use (naturally). - Due to the overall rapid progress, their distance, and the fact that settling in space was new to us. Side 3 experienced nearly a decade of hardship by the time Side 6 was established. Eventually a geopolitical analyst would write a treatise on the danger of believing corruption couldn't arise within the collective Federation of Earth colonies, and the existential consequences for mankind in space. Unfortunately, this subversion was already taking place; including among Side 3's officials, whom rapidly instituted the Arch Duchy of Zion, taking advantage of the circumstances. We all lnow what happens from that point on.
The main story element of Zeta, is the introduction of the Jupiter project. We already know that many of the isotopes we value most, exist abundantly in outter space; much more so than on Earth. Which regularly jettison excesses, of unwanted gasses, she doesn't need. Especially He-3 needed to fuel starship technology. So, Titans is yet another reinvention of the PMC, once again taking advantage of gov'ts that had been impoverished due to a war; and subsequently gone into administration mode. The Jupiter project would have rekindled everything. Of course, for that reason, Jamitoff hijacked it with the intention of achieving that milestone, and thus cementing Titans ideology (juvenile as that is, people respond). His real motive was to bring all human industry under Titan control.
Which is what inspired Anaheim electronics, a privately owned aero-space, publicly traded company, (that existed prior to the Earth reclamation initiative), to fund the AEUG. - Again, its a corporate conflict, and a lesson on why PMCs should have remained illegal. Up until 2005, we were well aware of the East India Trading company, which were just as deeply involved with the berbers, as they were necessary to the crowns colonial management.
Thus the only reason beyond Hamans death as to why Char re-incorporates Neo Zion, was simply because the Federation failed to act on this devastating corporate war. - Hamans death was the catalyser. The (over) idealistic Char had first met a very young Haman, she was the Hermoine Granger of her time. We see this again, through Gigi Andalusia in Hathaway, whom reminds Hathaway Noa of Quess, whom isn't a spacenoid.
In the end, ZZ 's first act is dedicated as a kind of thumbing the nose at these very self-important crew of the Aghama. Until Judau learns they suffered a pretty big hit; the kids view them as largely ignorant of the troubles of ordinary people like them, in not very good circumstances. Mostly as a result of these conflicts way above their heads, and the constant repurcussions on them. Roux explains, in a nutshell why she's involved. Which provides Judau with perspective - He doesn't begin to love her until the third act. A very organic relationship, and also a very 80's punk outlook. Whom we were all largely mindful of conservative values, looking for ways to innovate ideas. Not completely go over the edge to nowhere.
ZZ is literally the influence behind choosing to do 'War in the Pocket'. Which in terms of KSG's narrative, was an incredibly important peice, providing a lot of insight.
This is more of a not very comprehensive geo-political analysis, because ya can't thumb your nose at something that baffles you. 😉 Hope you weren't bored. 😃
How do right kamile off in the movies during this time period
I just finished double zeta and the worst thing is that for 80% of the show the fights are just horrible. It’s that until the end that the fights get good. And the attempt at comedy is just awful.
Gundam ZZ may actually be the closest thing to what Tomino had planned the "original" original Gundam series to be at its inception -- a bunch of kids on galactic adventure, travelling in spaceships and fighting aliens.
Haha nice way to put it, and yeah, ZZ Gundam could totally be ZZ Gunboy.
I watched zz and it gave me a few chuckles and kept my attention I don't know why it has a hated reputation the only reason I can think of is because gundam fans back then were to used to the dark stuff and got pissed off when they decided to make ZZ abit more lighthearted to make it more marketable
I watched the whole series a couple of years ago. Coming in from Zeta Gundam, the first couple of episodes were a welcome, light-hearted change. After that, it really started to get boring & irritating, the plot was going nowhere fast. I stuck it through until the second half and I'm glad I did; the story gets much better, Judeau becomes likeable, the action is great and there are lots of cool mecha designs. If you can stick it out, it's worth watching. The ZZ itself is super cool!
I always heard rhat ZZ gets better in the second half but i dont see it. It sounds like a show that was not properly planned out.
It wanted to eat its cake and have it too. Be lighthearted & fun but still continue the serious and violent story of Zeta but never the two shall meet
ZZ is a horrible mess that does Haman Karn dirty. Awfully planned show with a great first half that just bombs in the second.
The events of ZZ are all Char's fault
You're saying that because of how 'Quattro' handled Haman and Axis Zeon in Zeta?
@@absa try to read char's delete affair (CDA) manga series, you'll understand what he really mean.
Zeta gundam
ZZ's colony drop episode was actually surprising; I still think nearly the entire cast is unlikable
I just finished ZZ today for the first time , and while i do like the character progression of Judau and a few others , as you say , there are too many characters that are annoying on different levels or started out too obnoxious to be redeemed later in the series , like Beecha who only displays any sense of maturity very occasionally , despite assuming command of the Nahel Argama . I found it really unnerving that for the first half of the series , all of Judau's team was really just a bunch of brats putting the Argama in jeopardy on several occasions , constantly undermining Bright's authority , and safe for Iino , hardly any of them brought a little contrast to the team by being a little more level-headed and disciplined .
@@Tomcat_Coyote I was straight-up hoping Beecha, Mondo, and Elle would be killed off tbh
@@ph43draaa I wouldn't go that far maybe :P
Elle wasn't always great , but she wasn't as bad most of the time as even Ple . Mondo started calming down after their trip to MoonMoon and especially towards the end after Rasara dies . It's really Beecha who hardly ever changes despite having most responsibilities than others .
Real fans knows the true ship in ZZ is Judau/Haman.
She deserved better. The ending isn’t canon
Teetaans.
"... and we have to remember that Gundam is a show that is mostly aimed at kids as a mean to sell toys ..." 🤣🤣🤣 LOLOLOLOL! I keep forgetting that since the topics Gundam bring up to screen/have are pretty heavy to comprehend for under-age kids. Don't get me started, but I personally think that these stuffs here: political intrigue, power struggle, power-hungry, militarized version of an ideology, war crimes, revenge, manipulations, tracery, etc...etc..., should all belong to the Young Adult section. Not in the Kids one 🤣🤣🤣 hahaha... oh my! maybe in the future Live Adaptation of Gundam (if there is any) they should put this "VIEWERS DISCRETIONS ARE ADVISED" appear at the very beginning of the opening. LOL! those heavy topics tho...
Teeetans ☠
Personally, I don't have a problem with the comedy of the first episodes per se, I have a huge problem because that comedy has no place in Universe; the AEUG is victorious but has suffered heavy casualties, Char is missing, Kamille is in a coma, one of the handful of survivors gets killed...and I'm supposed to care about the sheninigans of a bunch of characters that are extremely unlikeable?
Beecha and Mondo are far from Kai. Kai may have been bitter and mean spirited, but was also tossed into a mobile suit and enrolled against his will. Beecha and Mondo are straight up traitors, that actively sabotaged their own companions and suffered no negative outcome.
No it's just a really good Anime.
Whatever it is, it's definitely not an anime.
Gundam was never aimed at kids... i hate the misconception... yes it was meant to sell models but certainly wasnt aimed at kids... also with your theory of char leading the rebellion instead of glemmy still wouldnt work... char made it quite clear he had no interest to returning to being casvel at all and would never invoke that claim but instead do it on his own meretts instead of relying on his late family
>>"Zeta Gundam is a show for kids"
Doubt
Anime this is not! Hold this to be true!
It doesn’t help that narratively and canonically the series is pointless. Zeon loses again, but it doesn’t matter because chars counterattack happens. The only thing that matters is the mecha that show up later in unicorn