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Imam Tom discusses Restating Orientalism by Prof Wael Hallaq (part 3)
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Imam Tom discusses Restating Orientalism by Prof Wael Hallaq (part 2) • Imam Tom discusses Res...
As a Roman Catholic, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the work you’re doing on this channel, Paul! Imam Tom’s is a voice that no one who believes in God should ignore in these dark days. May God bless you both for all you do in His service!
The secular project has failed all of us. It’s high time people of faith unite on common ground and help modernity recover from the impact of the iceberg before the ship sinks completely.
May Allah guide you to Islam my brother! Amen! You seem sincere Masha Allah!
We'll need an Imam Tom playlist 😅
There's already one
You see Imam Tom and Paul, you Like you Learn you Share ❤
Clicked as soon as I saw it. The best revert muslim duo on the Internet! Mashaa Allah
As god is my witness the moment I saw the notification, I was jumping and running, just as a kid waiting to play in playground, may allah bless you both, can’t wait to enjoy this one
Br. Paul, why don't we have Prof Hallaq himself on the show? Would be amazing to see him talk about it.
I have seen on him on other podcasts. So it's doable inShaaAllah
I’m hooked on your channel to the point I’m getting told of by my parents for being on TH-cam all the time but what can I do I just love the conversations you are having brother it’s on another level Alhamdulilah. May Allah (swt) bless you with good health, wealth and happiness.
Alhamdulillah
Imam Tom is always refreshing to listen to, mash'Allah.
wow, got my mind blown with this deep talk about how the world is thought of
I know debate and combative dawah have their own place, but more energy should be diverted to this sort of knowledge production. JazakAllah khairan for both of you.
In some ways, a lot of us "born" muslims should be alerted by brothers like Tom and Paul, for we don't want to be ones who are replaced by. They have contributed to Islamic causes more than most so called born muslims in a relatively short time I know. Let's not be complacent.
Imam Tom is a gem MashaAllah. May Allah always protect our beloved Imam Thomas 🤲🤲
May Allah Bless and Reward Both of you in this Life and in the Hereafter.
This channel is the best thing ever 💛 my brain is doubling in size
Wow I rode 20 plus miles on my bike ( 2am) listening to this whole discussion... thanks informative and fascinating
This is probably the only thing I look forward other than waking up to life each day.
Thank you much Sidi Paul and Imam Tom Fachhine alhamdulillah for them!
Two great assets for the Ummah right there.. May Allah accept your humble efforts. Ameen
AWWWWWW poooop this is gonna be a banger i can already tell. Listening to Wael Hallaq give a lecture with Dr. Ovamir as interlocutor is very challenging (but still good). I need Imam Tom to explain it to me like im lay person and not a galaxy brained intellectual. alhamdulilah
100% it’s the references, choice of words and cadence. It make Imam Tom so easy to listen to mashAllah.
As usual, Brother Paul has great guests who share valuable knowledge. May Allah rewards and bless all your effort
May Allah bless br. Paul and Imam Tom. Amazing work guys.
Alhamdulillah. Bravo Brother Paul and Imam Tom.
I'm a simple man. I see Imam Tom, I click.
Jazakallah kheir brother paul nd tom my Allah protect you.
Thank you Thank you Thank you both of you ❤
Salam from Penang. Another great conversation, Paul..SubhanaAllah ... thank you!
wa alaikum assalam
Imam Tom is a gem of our time. A great personality to listen to.
May Allah enrich you both with good deeds and infinite ilkhlas🙏, if you only Kew how much we appreciate this particular playlist on BT.
My brother Paul, we want an Arabic translation of all discussions.
Among the most important critics of Orientalism in the Arab world are Dr. Mazen Mutababani (د.مازن مطبقاني )and Dr. Dr. Idris Al-Azouzi(حسن بن إدريس عزوزي ), Dr. Ali Al-Namlah (د.علي النملة )on Christianization issues.
Thank you ❤
Waiting for next chapters
Dear brother Paul,
It's highly appreciable how you invite scholars to actually "listen" to them and not for a typical "back and forth argumentative conversation". JazakAllah khair for all your efforts.
Regarding this conversation, I just want to say that we shouldn't criticize Edward Said so harshly because it's on his work that we have been able to build on. Hope you do not mind my comment.
God bless you. Ameen
I wish to support Palestinians as primarily a citizen of our world, as a human being. Genocide affects all humans, it is the worst crime against humanity.
Wael Hallaq is Imam's favorite personality. Happy to see him again.
Excellent discussion and we need more of this to educate and discuss so we can turn the ideas into action
Thank you to both of you. We need more ❤❤
Yessss finally
May Allah bless Paul and Imam Tom.
Brother Paul, it would be great if you could have Dr. Sherman Jackson to discuss his recent book "The Islamic Secular" where in a key chapter, he pushes against the impossible notion from Hallaq's "The Impossible State" (though Dr. Jackson doesn't defend the nation-state and recognizes its deficiency and not being the optimal form for Islam). A very well thought out intellectual book.
The British medical journal, The Lancet, issued a harrowing warning that the true death toll of the Gaza conflict could be over 186,000, accounting for 8% of Gaza's population. The current official death toll stands at nearly 38,200, according to Gazan government sources.
At last!
Great podcast but.... without acknowledging and adressing the role of Western Esoteric Tradition as the underpining of secularism you can't make a dent in its wunderkinds like Enlightment or liberalism.
For example that Hegel was an oracle of Lurianic Kabbalah for the Western audience or clear Lockean inspiriation from it for his tabula rasa theory.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Life. What a story.
1:23:00 reminds me of a bit by Sebastian Maniscalco where his dad yells at him for calling himself Italian and not Sicilian.
Epistemicide - my new favourite word!
1:52:40 Alhamdulilah
1:52:38 🤔 🤔🤔 He will make public the good news that is private when the time is right iA
1:24:00 On separatist movement, it is also a tool of colonization.
Xinjiang and Taiwan are increasingly sensitive issues for China as it is also increasingly opposed to the Western unipolar hegemony.
❤
Have you considered the parallels also with Hannah Arendt’s ‘The Human Condition’ where she, more subtly and a lot less comprehensively critiques modernist / progress theory? I do feel that Professor has expanded and developed her line of critique, and I can only wonder how similarly caustic she would have been in denouncing the modern project had she lived to this day and age. Importantly, and rather expectedly, she does not seem to have developed an awareness let alone appreciation for the Muslim or more broadly Eastern epistemological, sociopolitical and moral traditions and speaks from a point of a progressive departure from the innate and ever more radical modification and redefining of nature in man’s eyes. I think she would really have appreciated Professor Hallaq’s extraordinarily groundbreaking work- both ahead of their times, like the Quranobiblical doomsday prophets warning of our cataclysmic likely now inevitable earthly demise. I often think that the East has actually lived through its modernity long long before the Europeans did, in the times of Babylon, Assyria, ancient Persia, Phoenician/Canaan and ancient Egypt and what came to be of what survived that modernity’s corruption is our modern day proto Christianity which later further evolved into Islam, as the penultimate moral framework humanity had developed (along with arguably Buddhist and ‘Hindu’ist’ equivalents). White Europeans are just very very civilizationally young and unfortunately, I worry that like the Moghuls and Vikings (who are their possibly only parallels, and likely ancestral cultures) it will take a lot of civilisational destruction and human suffering before they discover morality and develop a moral equivalent of Islam for example.
Can someone gift Imam Tom a proper mic
I am positive that Said argued that Orientalism is an incorporation to subjugate other cultures. So, saying he did not would be an incorrect critique of Said. Also, while I agree that Said did not provide clear solutions to Orientalism, Hallaq also fails to offer solutions in clear terms. They're both adept at identifying issues, but both are equally inadequate in offering solutions to the problems they discuss. I blame this on our current academic setting. After all, we get funds only when we can convince people how pressing the issue is, and not so much for a comprehensive solution. A solution to any modern issue requires collaboration by many, so I would be surprised if any one academic alone can offer solutions to a problem they discuss.
Facchine, get rid of the laptop mic and use your actual mic 😅
Guys, I have a question.
The work of Mr Hallaq is soo articulated on Western critic and colonialism.
But I'm wondering why, to be fully consistent, he as not joined muslims yet ? What prevents him to do so ?
Allah's Will
You can't criticize Newton for stopping at the classic gravity equations and not going all the way to the more correct general relativity.
28:22 what I find bothering about this championing of Hallaq is that he's not Muslim - he's anti colonialist sure, but he's still kufr
Can you please PLEASE fix the problem with the audio on the 2 previous episodes??
1:52:39 wink wink, nod
@104:51 sounds like Sauron
I am a '91Gulf War veteran who attended a "diversity university" in the Midwest where gay American students still live in fear--Mankato State University--a university where Muslim heterosexual foreign students are more welcome on campus than the local gay students. When I was there, a US Army Afghan war veteran committed suicide in the basement of the school library while a Muslim Afghan Pashtun Engineering student was posing for photos in front of the library with Koran in hand in his traditional clothes. So, yes, there is a problem with Edward Said. If you are going to talk about "Orientalism" why dont you talk about the city I am writing from, Bangkok? it is a hell of a lot more oriental and tolerant than either the Middle East or the USA.
@ZachSnider-ts3ui I heard him say the word "queers." Why is he using that word? Is it because he is a good Muslim?.
have you seen Middle nation's videos on hallaq's the impossible state.
Sister round about to say Allah and ummah won't help
Islam of the pre fossil fuels age cannot remain the same post the fossil fuels era.
Islam's message should now also align with the non-negotiable principles of energy in nature, thereby extending its original teaching in physics to cover for finite Energy resources, too: "أَفَلَا يَنظُرُونَ إِلَى الْإِبِلِ كَيْفَ خُلِقَتْ"
“In any system of energy, Control is what consumes energy the most.
No energy store holds enough energy to extract an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores.
No system of energy can deliver sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it.
This universal truth applies to all systems.
Energy, like time, flows from past to future” (2017).
Berikut Isi Piagam Jakarta 22 Juni 1945:
“Bahwa sesungguhnya kemerdekaan itu ialah hak segala bangsa, dan oleh sebab itu maka penjajahan di atas dunia harus dihapuskan, karena tidak sesuai dengan peri kemanusiaan dan peri keadilan.
isi piagam jakarta
Dan perjuangan pergerakan kemerdekaan Indonesia telah sampailah kepada saat yang berbahagia, dengan selamat sentosa mengantarkan rakyat Indonesia ke depan pintu gerbang negara Indonesia, yang merdeka, bersatu, berdaulat, adil dan makmur.
Alas berkat rahmat Allah Yang Maha Kuasa, dan dengan didorongkan oleh keinginan luhur, supaya berkehidupan kebangsaan yang bebas, maka rakyat Indonesia menyatakan dengan ini kemerdekaannya.
Kemudian daripada itu untuk membentuk suatu pemerintah negara Indonesia Merdeka yang melindungi segenap bangsa Indonesia dan seluruh tumpah darah Indonesia, dan untuk memajukan kesejahteraan umum, mencerdaskan kehidupan bangsa, dan ikut melaksanakan ketertiban dunia yang berdasarkan kemerdekaan, perdamaian abadi dan keadilan sosial, maka disusunlah kemerdekaan kebangsaan Indonesia itu dalam suatu susunan negara Republik Indonesia, yang berkedaulatan rakyat, dengan berdasarkan kepada: Ketuhanan, dengan kewajiban menjalankan syari’at Islam bagi pemeluk-pemeluknya, menurut dasar kemanusiaan yang adil dan beradab, persatuan Indonesia, dan kerakyatan yang dipimpin oleh hikmat kebijaksanaan dalam permusyawaratan-perwakilan serta dengan mewujudkan suatu keadilan sosial bagi seluruh rakyat Indonesia.”
There are Bibles (books) but there is only
one book of the law
one book of the covenant
one book of Yehovah
one book of the law, the prophets and writings of God Yehovah of the testimony of Yehovah the true God which Yehovah gave by his spirit through his prophets for his holy anointed (mashiach, christ )
Any Christianity or gospel that is antilaw and anticovenant
is
Rebellious, blasphemous and contrary to the law of God Yehovah
Rebellious, blasphemous and contrary to the covenant of God Yehovah
Rebellious, blasphemous and contrary to the spirit of God Yehovah by which Yehovah gave the law
Rebellious, blasphemous and contrary to the prophets of God Yehovah through who Yehovah gave the law
Persecutory, blasphemous and contrary to the anointed (mashiach, christ) people of God Yehovah that are keeping the law and the covenant and ways of God Yehovah
Rebellious, blasphemous and contrary to Yehovah the true God the Lawgiver and Covenantgiver
Ungoly
it is of serpent the tempter the inventor of the antilaw anticovenant gospel that made Adam to sin.against God Yehovah his father and God by not keeping the law and the covenant of the most high Lord God Husband King Lawgiver Covenantgiver Judge Creator Begetter Father Saviour Yehovah the true God
Genesis 1:26-27 ASV
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. [27] And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 2:7,15-17 ASV
And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. [15] And Jehovah God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. [16] And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: [17] but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Genesis 3:1-6 ASV
Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which Jehovah God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of any tree of the garden? [2] And the woman said unto the serpent, Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat: [3] but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. [4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: [5] for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil. [6] And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat; and she gave also unto her husband with her, and he did eat.
Hosea 6:7 ASV
But they like Adam have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.
Isaiah 43:27 ASV
Thy first father sinned, and thy teachers have transgressed against me.
Malachi 2:8 ASV
But ye are turned aside out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble in the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith Jehovah of hosts.
Deuteronomy 29:9,29 ASV
Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do. [29] The secret things belong unto Jehovah our God; but the things that are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Deuteronomy 30:11-14 ASV
For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not too hard for thee, neither is it far off. [12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it? [13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it? [14] But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
Deuteronomy 6:4,18,25 ASV
Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah: [18] And thou shalt do that which is right and good in the sight of Jehovah; that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest go in and possess the good land which Jehovah sware unto thy fathers, [25] And it shall be righteousness unto us, if we observe to do all this commandment before Jehovah our God, as he hath commanded us.
Deuteronomy 4:2 ASV
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of Jehovah your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy 12:32 ASV
What thing soever I command you, that shall ye observe to do: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Deuteronomy 5:32 ASV
Ye shall observe to do therefore as Jehovah your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.
Deuteronomy 13:4 ASV
Ye shall walk after Jehovah your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Malachi 3:6 ASV
For I, Jehovah, change not; therefore ye, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
UNDANG-UNDANG DASAR NEGARA REPUBLIK INDONESIA TAHUN 1945
PEMBUKAAN
(Mukadimah)
Bahwa sesungguhnya Kemerdekaan itu ialah hak segala bangsa dan oleh sebab itu, maka penjajahan di atas dunia harus dihapuskan, karena tidak sesuai dengan perikemanusiaan dan perikeadilan.
Dan perjuangan pergerakan kemerdekaan Indonesia telah sampailah kepada saat yang berbahagia dengan selamat sentausa mengantarkan rakyat Indonesia ke depan pintu gerbang kemerdekaan Negara Indonesia, yang merdeka, bersatu, berdaulat, adil dan makmur.
Atas berkat rakhmat Allah Yang Maha Kuasa dan dengan didorongkan oleh keinginan luhur, supaya berkehidupan kebangsaan yang bebas, maka rakyat Indonesia menyatakan dengan ini kemerdekaannya.
Kemudian daripada itu untuk membentuk suatu Pemerintah Negara Indonesia yang melindungi segenap bangsa Indonesia dan seluruh tumpah darah Indonesia dan untuk memajukan kesejahteraan umum, mencerdaskan kehidupan bangsa, dan ikut melaksanakan ketertiban dunia yang berdasarkan kemerdekaan, perdamaian abadi dan keadilan sosial, maka disusunlah Kemerdekaan Kebangsaan Indonesia itu dalam suatu Undang-Undang Dasar Negara Indonesia, yang terbentuk dalam suatu susunan Negara Republik Indonesia yang berkedaulatan rakyat dengan berdasar kepada Ketuhanan Yang Maha Esa, Kemanusiaan yang adil dan beradab, Persatuan Indonesia dan Kerakyatan yang dipimpin oleh hikmat kebijaksanaan dalam Permusyawaratan/Perwakilan, serta dengan mewujudkan suatu Keadilan sosial bagi seluruh rakyat Indonesia.
Also I don’t agree with Hallaq that the subjgative, nature and native exterminating, acculturating and replacing with settlement formation - colonial project, that this started in modern Europe. I think 1) it’s a direct continuation of Roman, Hun, Viking and Gothic tradition and 2) the closest recent parallel was the Moghul onslaughts of Asia/Europe - until they took on Islam or Buddhism and matured morally. I think western Christianity and its mirror secular religions are particularly interesting in promoting a different moral values system than other local religious traditions. 3) If we look at the Europeans and Turkic/Mughal/Viking/Macedonian cultures as all sharing a common ancestral origin of a nomadic warrior natured, non-urban culture from around Central and Northern Asia, I think this explains a lot more why Europeans had radically different moral values and landscapes than their neighbouring societies in Greece, Egypt, the Levant, Iraq, Persia and India.
plz take SAHIL ADEEM from PAKISTAN on your podcast ,,,,
How could you mention sahil adeem in such an intellectual, thorough, meaningful discussion. He cannot put two facts right in one statement, citing pseudo science and bizarre analogies. Can we not differentiate pseudo scholars from the real gems like Imam Tom and Paul?
Imam Tom?🤨
Problem?
@@kungfufreak360 yes. That he should understand the VALUE and MEANING that Islam gives names and western names like Bill Henry Darin Bob…Tom have little if any significant meaning and even if they did their names could never equal or even come close to the importance of MUSLIM NAMES. But if he knows all that then it’s his choice to wear it like it’s my choice to comment on it.
@dangrille5846
You're incorrect. If a name doesn't have a bad meaning, there is no need to change it, whether it's an Arabic, Cantonese, or English name.
Why was median life expectancy age of women especially was early twenties 1500 years ago in Arabic peninsula? Most of the. Women were passing away at young age of twenties. Eg Ummugulsum daughter of the prophet pbuh.
Other women lived to a longer age. But I do agree, the life spans should be quantified, and perhaps can be done from the available data.
Why does he have one of these Arabian beanies on? Looks ridiculous.
You're ridiculous by making such a ridiculous comment.
The gist of the conversation probably escaped Komrij, so was left only with a personal attack. Ever wonder why graduating students wear those caps with a tassel, whythe Pope wears that headwear, or the queen of England wears her crown? Imam Tom’s headwear is a badge of honor for his accomplishments, if you only knew the significance.
Imam Tom studied at the Faculty of Shariah. So he's an extremist who looooves Shariah law. There is no other reason why someone would study that.
You’re quite ignorant
بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمٰنِ الرَّحِيْمِ
This is in cambodia. They practised the strangest religion which they call Islam. But clearly it is not. أعوذُ بِٱللَّهِ
This docu was done in Indonesian language.
What do u think?
th-cam.com/video/rjmTGdyCuLc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=_bgrQc3BSJmjJdx9