The EV ownership experience is certainly an interesting one; there are plenty of positives, but too many stressful experiences. Now though, after covering 2,000 miles in my Taycan Turbo S, I want to dig a bit more into some of the costs and actual numbers compared to the GT4 and my previous GTC4Lusso. What do you think, are they a surprise?
What you’ve proven Tim is that if you haven’t got a home charger, then having an EV as your only vehicle is simply not a viable option. The frustrations of the public chargers are simply unacceptable for mass adoption. You travelled 40miles out and back to add about 160miles of range. Bonkers I’m afraid
Tim I’ve had my BMW i3s since December 4,700 miles. I can’t charge at home so until bp pulse hiked the price by 50% on June 10th I was paying 15p per kWh. Since then I’m using Tesco at 0p kwh. With the savings I’ve bought a private number plate ending I3S
The UK just needs to improve the charging network. Here in NL I have no problem using a 100 km range Zoe living in an apartment. Six 22kW destination chargers within 100 meters of my home, fast chargers everywhere along the motorways.
Thing is, all these hassles are just transitional issues that we know will go away at some point - but you need the queues now to incentivise the charging network growth.
This was my comment under this video The CAR as we know it is so successful as it offers endless, hassle less possibilities as soon as people start to encounter the problems associated with EV’s it’s just something that gets in your way. May as well use public transport
@@markrichards9934 Nonsense. At 3 cents a mile carrying 3 passengers it is far cheaper and quicker than public transport. My EV is always ready to go and I never need to do remote charging. In 2 years it has no problems and zero maintenance. NEVER had that with an ICE
I don't think so because if range keep increasing like it have we perhaps in 10 years see electric cars that can run 1000 miles before a charge is needed and then most people will not need to charge it in perhaps several days and you manage a long distant journey as well and perhaps we see future cars having electric sun panel for roof as well meaning that the battery is constantly charged meaning a car will be able to drive for very long distances without charging and if the sun is non existent it will drain the battery.
The charge points should require the user to input the amount of charge requested at the start, then the charge point should display for others how long that vehicle is going to be there
In belgium you no longer have night fare, and price of electricity is already sky high here and the infastructure is behind like the UK even worse i'd say, and YET they still push this EV stuff so hard.
@@DaveBoxBG Not any more. Some states and suburbs have excess solar power and the grid does not need it, so many households get no income from the energy companies as was promised when they installed solar panels. These are just some of the perversities when governments interfere with free markets and pick winners and losers. Let supply and demand do it's job without subsidies paid for by tax payers. Now energy prices are going through the roof.
Another really worthwhile episode Tim.... thanks for sharing. First, I think this series is extremely useful and can only hope viewers, politicians and industry influencers are paying attention to your experiences and observations. Second, I have to say I find your patience with the "average speed / time expended" penalty remarkable. The truth is, "TIME", however you reckon it, is precious and has a value. Should drivers / citizens / tax payers be expected to drive a car limited to 70% of the average speed / trip duration of virtually every other car on the road? - because that is the penalty the current generation of EV / charging station infrastructure extort from users. Moreover, given the "real-world" expectations for significant growth in that infrastructure, we are I'm afraid, all heading towards a real crisis as the number of vehicles in use is growing much more quickly than the available infrastructure - at which point charging times, availability and access will become even more coveted and problematic. Add the taxes and charges you mentioned, to say nothing of the need to manage increased demand on the electricity generating industry, and costs are certain to increase very quickly. In the end, trouble is brewing as the stampede towards an EV only future gathers momentum. Allowing politicians to determine the future of so large and vital a segment of our economy is madness and is certain to end in a host of unintended consequences that will almost certainly result in a dramatically more costly, inefficient and frustrating experience for everyone. When will we we ever learn...
Unintended consequences. Ermm. Bit like the diesel fiasco? As soon as governments press like mad in one direction, do the opposite. Guaranteed to come up trump's. Me, 2 NA V8's & a flat 6. & Not changing. Period.
Good video 😀 Tesla owner here, the EV life when away from home for a few days or more can be painful. Charging at home makes day-to-day use a none issue but still the infrastructure for time away is lacking. The good news though is that it is getting better very quickly. With Gridserve quickly sorting out motorway services and companies like ubitricity installing lots and lots of street charging in London etc. The end goal is that you don’t ever go somewhere to charge, you just charge when you are doing something else and your car is parked (which is most of the time). It will eventually be the case that wherever you park you can trickle charge, little and often, and you won’t have to think about it. The difficult thing coming from a petrol car is switching that mindset, especially as it’s not realistic right now if you can’t charge at home, but one day, the idea of going somewhere to charge OR fill up will be obsolete, and the car will just be ready for you when you need it.
2p to charge overnight at home until the government realise there’s an electric car registered at your address and allow electric companies to slap £500 a year extra on your bill to cover the losses from duty on petrol, independent of the mileage covered. They cannot afford to lose that income.
Tim trying to build a relationship with his Porsche dealer with the Taycan & GT4 probably to get an allocation for a GT4 RS. Cheeky. Plus gets to make content with both vehicles. Win-Win.
The difference in the AMGs is that he placed an order for each of them I believe. He bought the Taycan and GT4 from the dealer’s available inventory. This is usually a sign of a brand selling you their inventory in exchange for an exclusive model allocation.
Might make sense in the US here in Australia Tesla's are luxury cars most averaging $100k plus So are out of reach of most people I've only seen about 3 Tesla's in 2 or 3 years in Western Sydney
@@AAziem-xk6bm Gates is a well known Porsche fanboi and has a dislike of musk so don't image there was any chance he wouldn't. Anyone that has spent even a little time looking into EV knows you need to charge at home the stations are for long trips. South M having all chargers out would be a supplier issue not Tesla's
Being able to charge at home makes owning an EV an entirely different experience! Unfortunately, the charging infrastructure there in the UK, and here in the states, still needs A LOT of work. Being able to charge my Model Y at home and never having to think about re-charging (outside of long road trips) has been an awesome experience.
Model 3 Perf owner in Canada. I’ve used public Tesla chargers three times in total. Rest of the time, wake up, drive. Get home, leave it plugged in. Rinse and repeat. Had one bay (in Squamish) broken, neighbouring bay working fine.
Current price octopus energy 5p kw 00.30 to 04:30. I get 3 to 4 miles per kw. Less than 2p a mile.i only have 3.4kw charger setup that gives 14kw a night. About 40-50 miles per day.
Yea I suffer from depression and watching these each day actually help. Provided a little break and something to look forward to. Thanks for what you do.
Home charging even cheaper - 5p a kw overnight 00:30 - 04:30 ... 3phase charger will give you 11Kw/h - so 75kw fill up, 4hours at 11kw =44kw @ 5p + 30kw @13p kw = £2.20 + £3.90 = £6.10 to charge up overnight, so around 3.5p per mile
@@Neojhun yes true, they charge slower but what he is going through is pretty bad. Also the range in that car isn’t good at all. I drove to a concert last night in my 2021 Long range model 3, was 140 miles round trip, left at 88% and got back home at 49%.
@@raydoherty5419 Lol, no. Of course Tesla has their own network, but so does Porsche. The Taycan was made to use IONITY and Ecotricity in the UK. There are plenty of those in the UK. Use these chargers and you will get around as quickly as a Tesla, only you will be in a better car too. Win win.
I applaud your patience. As a Tesla owner for the past 8 years, watching your experiences with charging is startling. I’m frustrated for you. I wish you could experience what it’s like living with a Tesla Model S Performance instead. The driving experience is exhilarating. The real-world range is much closer to 300 miles than 200. The Tesla charging network is a blissful experience. Most Tesla charging locations have 10 to 20 stalls in my experience-and they just work (hilariously, you found a station that didn’t)-and when you arrive there is almost never a queue. When you pull up, the cables are all the right length, and you plug in and walk away-you don’t have to press any buttons, or use any credit cards-the station just talks to the car and bills you automatically. That’s pretty funny you found a supercharger station that is out-of-service-I’ve never heard of an entire station being out; however, I live in the U.S.. I hope the infrastructure improves quickly for you Shmee. Stick with it, and enjoy your road-trip. When you can charge the car in the Shmuseum, you’ll be quite stoked. What a pretty car. I think the Audi E-Tron GT might be almost prettier-Nah…I can’t make up my mind.
Then don't buy a Taycan Turbo. Porsche made a distinctive choice to knee cap the range for insane performance. Luckily attainable BEVs with over 250 miles are nothing like that. Most people can't afford a car like the Turbo.
@@Neojhun So insane that it's a turd compared to a Model S Plaid, with less range. So, how's that "insane performance" work? You gonna argue that it's for the handling? The Porsche is a nicer car with better handling, but the range and the acceleration is a joke. Telsa destroys them in both metrics, and the Plaid is so much faster that it's downright silly. 130 vs 150mph in the quarter mile is so hysterically different that it's like racing a Camry against Porsche 911
@@rustler08 dude it has been proven a lot of times that porsche underestimates their range while tesla always overestimates every single thing. The result of that is that the Taycan pretty much has the same range as the current model S. We will have to wait and see the real figures of the upcoming model s. You can not compare it before it exists. Its the same as people always commenting that a tesla roadster is faster than some other car. That has been done for years now, but the car still inst even out there... dont compare current cars to non existent future cars. Compare them side to side when they are both there.
Fueling/charging a Tesla is about 1/4 the cost of running an ICE vehicle in my experience in the US. My bmw used to cost around $300 a month for fuel and my Tesla costs $75 a month to keep charged based on same driving habits and same mileage each month. When it comes to other running costs like maintenance/ issues....well the Tesla is simply $0 in that regard while the BMW was very expensive to maintain and service. Just wanted to provide actual facts rather than your conclusions here saying EVs are not cheaper to run....they are by a lot!
21:23 If it took 42 mins to charge to 93% how long did it take in total including finding out the first charge station didn't work, queing for the one that did work (25mins?) and drive home? I can account for about an hour and 10 minutes, if the drive to and from was 20mins then about 1.5 hours to fill the car. You wouldn't want to be late for work.
Great PUBLIC SERVICE video Tim. There is certainly a lot of marketing and environmentalist hype regarding the transition to EV's, it so very refreshing to see an undisputed automobile expert pour some reality into the conversation.Everyone will not be in a situation to have a home-charging station, so your usage vignettes may actually reflect normalcy and not a corner use-case. Keep up the good work and your certainly welcome and encouraged to do another US visit.
Just got my first EV a week ago. We have a two car garage and charging at home is very easy, no issues. Love the instant torque and how quiet the drive is.
PITA in my view. Don’t want an electric lawnmower. Why would I replace my very reliable, paid up 3 Bmws & 1 Toyota for this headache? No reason. Producing electricity isn’t Evo friendly as it seems!
You NEED a hack for home charging. I’ve had an EV in our rented townhouse for 1.5years. I’ve only had to DC charge a couple times. 10A from light circuit would work. It’s a game changer as you don’t watch the gauge because every day starts with a full tank regardless. I converted to your units and I pay about 2p/mile. 🇦🇺
Should have counted how many people came and went from one petrol pump in the time it took you to charge your one car. Including the time spent in the queue.
Man England!. We just can’t get any kind of decent infrastructure going at all. We’ve had electricity for over a century, how hard is it to get a few plugs working? Ridiculous
@@jamier7073 Lols. But irrelevant. Africa is Africa, we all know that. My issue is the UK has had a developmental head start of about a century.. ahead of Africa. So why these problems still?
@@slyowusu99 because you are not part of Europe lol xD And compared to the rest of Europe, the UK does look like a third world country. Especially if you compare UK to countries like Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark etc.
You're absolutely correct on all fronts once again. You're not an early adopter, very early Porsche hybrids were likely a real nightmare/ineffectual and complex. I find it hard to fault your judgment in these matters; regular people can't view this as a simple car purchase that they would daily enjoy, it's more about a car connoisseur evaluating this Marque in comparison to others - and its place in the road to the potentially all-electric future. Nonetheless we're still waiting for you to take it on the Autobahn and floor it so we can hear the sound of an electric Porsche at full send. Of course if it were me I would insist on being filmed while shaving myself with an electric razor...just to get the full gestalt across to my viewers.
Tim’s concerns about charging are really more of a UK issue. They really need to step up the game in 150kW chargers in London. Also the 175mi range he quotes appears to be the 75% SoC usage, which no other EV ever states, converting to 100% and its 233mi which is not high but within reason with the 21” wheels. I just did a 550mile journey in a Taycan with 20” wheels and for the first leg with little wind and mostly motorway speeds I went from 100% to 13% and traveled 245mi with 38mi still remaining so 283mi range in 92F weather using AC at 72F and ventilated seats. In California there was no issue finding ElectrifyAmerica chargers and all my sessions worked.
Very honest experience. I can sympathise in a lot of ways after 3 years being electric. BUT, it is the worst example of an honest experience. I just don’t do what you do. Ever. I charge it when I don’t use it on a destination slower charger. They are far more reliable and the charge time is the time it takes to plug in, then I’m doing something else.
Man - sorry to hear it.. in the US I never have any issues with charging whether it be with Tesla Superchargers or Chargepoint. Also, it lets you know on both of those services if there is someone using the charger at the station. Sounds like you guys have a lot fo work to do over there!
Hi Tim, one thing that have I have seen on someone else’s channel is to put skinner tires on the car to improve range. I know some people wouldn’t want to do that to their taycan turbo S, but if you want range the wide tires that come on the turbo S impact range pretty severely.
The Hammersmith charger experience is just a simple "no f***ing way". Queueing, then the inevitable broken charger. Unbelievable. Imagine the added fun of someone else having just pulled into the free machine while you found yours was broken. That would be an enjoyable conversation about who has priority. Good luck with that in London.
As usual an excellent report. I am still not convinced about EVs! I think oil companies are going to put a spanner in the works with some sort of synthetic fuel. I also think your point of the road tax and all the other charges increasing is spot on.
Yes Ev's are the highly unfortunate future (maybe temporarily before other tech comes into play), but your experiences are proving that it is too early to take the plunge before you have to. Even then you have the alternative of not buying an EV....instead just continuing to run your ICE cars.....you have plenty to choose from Tim One thing missed from your cost calculations....if it is quicker (and more reliable) to drive 20 miles out of London to charge-up, there is a 40 mile round-trip to add into the calculations (20% of your theoretical 200 mile range) and therefore this cost should be factored in too. I admire your impartiality in this Tim..... good and fair reporting. Bravo
That's what I appreciate about you Shmee, you don't dress it up, you say it as it is, if it's good, you say so, if it's crap, you say so, keep it going mate, honesty goes a long way......🤗🤗🤗
1. When old streetlight sodium lamps are replaced with LED lamp heads, there's a network of urban kerbside posts with spare capacity that can be re-purposed to provide overnight slow EV charging capacity everywhere. Requiring providers to offer plug-in slow charging at every space in any off street parking structure by a certain date would also be a reasonable accommodation.
I’m glad u r doing this. As an engineer I can honestly say the problem is not the cars themselves, they are as good as they can possibly be made. The issue is the infrastructure and also, what no one mentions, is the change to everyone’s life to make them work. Example, u stop off to fill up on the way to work in a petrol car takes 5 mins, electric car takes an hour. Will ur boss accept that as an excuse for lateness?!
I found a parking garage near Washington DC the other week that had a Porsche specific charging station on the bottom, 15 Tesla stations on the roof, and a few more generic chargers on the floor below that. Very cool
Your point about the throughput capacity of a traditional gas station vs a charging station is very valid. 5 minutes at a gas station vs 45 minutes at fast charger.... so you would need 9 times as many charging stations as gas stations... I know that the idea is to charge off hours at home, so the reality is unknown, but as EV cars become more common, charging station backups will have people swapping back to gas!
Here in amsterdam i have 2 (slow) public charging stations on my street (2 spots each) and at least 5 more within a 5-10 minuite walk from my front door. fast charging is cool and all, but you cant beat just leaving the car plugged in overnight around the corner.
The frustration. The thought about taking a car for a ride drive by 20 gas stations and have to worry if you can fill it up and get home. Home charger helps 80 percent, then the only chargers you need to worry about is the ones 150 miles away. I’m sure ev owners is under 10 percent of drivers could you imagine if it jumped to 15 to 20 with the current infrastructure .
With home charging most people never go to a public charger. I have two EV's and haven't been to one in over a year. I have done long road trips and yes you use them then but my experiences have been mostly positive.
Love that you spend time also on EVs, Tim. I have petrol cars (BMW, Porsche, McLaren) and I have a Tesla 3 Performance. I recommend you try a Tesla along with the Taycan, and of course now a Plaid would be a good choice. The most important reason; the Supercharger network. I have had my Tesla 2 years. Have home charger. Mostly still charge on the road. Elon built the charger network first for a reason. Making it EASY for the consumer. Over the last two years, never a whole charging station down, have had a few times when I had to wait. Mostly though a very good experience. Making the EV life work! Plus the autopilot is a game changer on long trips. You step out of the car after 15 hours reasonable fresh compared to gutted.
Once you have a charger at your house/museum it is much easier. Here in the US the hard part about EV’s is long trips become a nightmare. For short trips around town they are great however, once you are traveling farther or if you live in a rural area forgot finding a charger or if you can find one you are going to be waiting hours to be fully charged.
LOL Wake up indeed. This is a $150,000 Super GT. It has massively compromised performance over usability. Porsche just screwed up with TURBO variant of Taycan. Luckily it's the crazy expensive top trim. Which very few people can afford thus very few people will have that problem.
@@saqz11 Everything you know is from your TV. If you actually did some research, it's hard btw 100s of hours your opinion would change. come back to me with "Facts" when you do some research. Stop watching your television and read some books.
Porsche screwed up with the Tycan Turbo. It has little relevance to the 250 mile Plus & 30 Minute DC Fast Charging BEVs. They sacrificed traction and performance over range too the point it's barely useable. Luckily very few people can even afford to buy one thus has very little relevance to BEVs.
@@karlvanginderdeuren4009 Yep it's fine for people who never need to do more than 180 miles. For people who can afford a $100,000 most likely means they own other cars.
Hi Tim, I have just got into the new Honda CR-V E:HEV and its a great SUV to run I'm getting around 51 - 54Mpg and the is just over 200 miles on the clock and that's around town and its a great car but it has no transmission it just has one gear it has the new ECVT with no belts infact if you check it out it's clever and one of a kind plus Honda have sold 9 million CR-V world wide since its launch back in 1995. The CR-V will use full EV as much as it can on every journey and engine comes in just to charge up the battery but the switch between the full EV & engine is very hard to pick up on the only way I can tell is to look at the dash. It's main rival is the Toyota RAV 4 they run very close but the CR-V runs silent as you drive down the road and the build quality its bang on on plus Honda's as a rule dont break down and last a life time. I should point out Hybrids don't work for motorway driving full stop and the engine is used to power the front wheels but still switches between EV & Engine in about a 45 second cycles also I think for time being Hybrids are best way to go as charging points are few and far between and some are broken. Cheers Alan B P.S Its only cost me £16.00 to cover 200 miles in a big heavy SUV. I spent months doing my homework prior and they claim the Toyota is ever so slightly better on MPG but Honda is a much nicer car by a country mile in my sole opinon.
Really good and honest account of where we are at now. Thank you. I think the infrastructure will improve and soon we will be living in a world where you can pretty much pull into any 'gas' station and 'fill' up! Hang in there! My bigger concerns are the carbon footprint / environmental impact of buying an electric car (all that power comes from a power station over an inefficient grid) and the longevity of the batteries (will the range drop once the batteries are old / in winter / if you keep doing mini charges).
Thats a great review Tim.As you point out a lack of chargers is the most problems for owning an EV. Defnitly not destined for Africa. As here in South Africa we are having frequent blackouts for the last couple of years. So i will stick to my Focus ST250 for now. Bedt regards
Also, on the topic of depreciation (how do i spell that lol) keep in mind the innovations in the EV space. If the next porsche has a 500mile range (or something) then this one is f*cked
Personally, I don’t think (in the future anyway) people won’t be buying EV, they will lease them. For many reason, mainly due to purchase price and also maintenance outside of warranty (can’t imagine replacing those motors or batteries is cheap). So I think people will lease them for 3 years, give them back and get a new one. I might be wrong mind.
@@kieranblacker any legitimate concerns for the cost of ownership long term, or for depreciation, will be reflected in the cost of a lease too. One of the reasons why EV leases are priced fairly low at the moment (compared to the purchase price) is because depreciation is really low on EVs. High demand keeps the prices high!
If you download the ZapMap app, it tells you in realtime wether or not charging stations are available or being used. It also reports if chargers are not working. A little planning can save charging frustration.
Spot the 24 year old BMW (Update..Nissan Primera that looked a lot like a BMW 316 Coupe!) still giving good service in front of you…will the Taycan lasts as well and how many new batteries will it have needed.?? That Nissan is probably still on it original drivetrain which is far more genuinely eco friendly than any current EV.🙁🙁
That you can say to any new Car out there. I don't know if a new BMW with a combustion Engine will last 20 Years or even more. The Cars from the mid 80s through the mid 90s are superior. My Audi is nearly 28 Years old, about 600k km and still first Engine, but second transmission.
@@jonnyhuk2 Yes you are right but from the brief glimpse when I watched the film, a BMW 316 Coupe does look almost identical in a quick glance. So yes..it is a 1996 Primera on at least 111,000 miles (note the change in readings when it was fitted with a new speedometer or was “clocked”). The point remains…24 years of presumably good service but with current technology a 24 year old EV will have had a lot of very expensive work to keep it on the road…we need vastly improved charging abilities and a giant leap in battery design which may well come but for the moment, EV ‘s are not the correct answer….they are a temporary distraction whilst we bury our heads in the desert sands hoping not to realise the true cause of World pollution…and it is not your car that is the problem…..😐
Just subscribed. I like your perspective. It seems the quicker the charge the higher the cost. Very surprising to hear there are not dedicated fleet charging stations for the Taxis.
This has nothing to do with government mandates. That is just ideology you have been programmed to think. Governments did not mandate Porsche to build an overkill fast Super GT that compromises Range for Insane Performance. This has no relevance to attainable BEVs with well over 250 miles range. Which massively changes usability.
Good video Tim. I like the fact you briefly touched on the batteries. A friend of mine has a Taycan turbo s which, for some reason, experienced a fatal battery fault. It was covered under the warranty of course, but he managed to sneak a look at the worksheet at Porsche. MOTHER. OF. GOD. I'm not going to tell you the figure. All I will say is that, once the batteries die after 3 or so years, there are going to be a LOT of these cars on the market at discount prices! Personally I won't be adopting EV until I'm forced to do so. It just isn't anywhere near right yet. And if, like me, you live in the countryside far away from anything even remotely resembling a decent speed charging station, it just isn't viable. The wasted time is also a huge thing too. If like you say you could be looking at an hour and a half of waiting and charging time, for me that is several hundreds of pounds of wasted time per charge.
@@hellmekun heheh. I was typing basically the same comment as ShizAudi right when Shmee showed us the buggered Tesla station. Hilarious. I’ve never experienced anything worse than one bad stall out of 16-20 myself; but, I guess it can’t all be perfect.
As a Tesla driver since March 2020 I think I am contractually obliged to report my own experiences: Super Charging sessions : ~35 to 40 Broken Chargers : Zero Failed Sessions : Zero Total Time Queueing : None Number of times getting the coffee took longer than the charging : about 50-75% ? Also have to madd - cost ranges from 20p (Heathrow) to 32p (Warwick) per KWh. Average about 28p ish Flame below
I love the maths behind this etc! But most every day people have a diesel car, now I have a 1.9tdi seat Leon and worked out roughly it costs me 11p a mile now that’s assuming my range is around 650 but in truth on a long drive I’ve hit 700-750 so it’s probably less than 11p per mile! All I’m saying is there not really that cheap/ affordable! And buying one is just so expensive!
No electric car is worth it really haha unless you can lease it for like £200 or something at the same price point as the ICE equivalent. Only the e-golf has been similar from what I’ve seen with the Golf ICE variant and with Audis, it’s just insanity wherein the E-trons cost over 50% more
I’ve had my Leon a few years and love it, I’d really find it hard to justify this cost as well as depreciation on these new EVs. I feel like they will date very quickly as they progress so quickly. Perhaps if the batteries last, I could justify buying one that’s a few years old but for now I’m not convinced either!
Great video, we run a i3 but it's a range extender and everything you describe is 100% correct. We are lucky charge at home use solar in summer no cost and night units on Octopus at night just 5p Kwh. Buy the way very little battery degradation on a car that's 7 year's old but very little fast changing. Now we're looking to replace the i3 but because it will be all electronic only, son lives 120 miles from us therefore need real world range 260 miles.
Excellent video Tim; thank you. The reality of these comparable fuel costs and the lack of charging infrastructure highlighted in your previous charging video mean I won't buy into electric for some years to come.
The fuel companies will in time roll out hydrogen filling stations. Toyota are developing hydrogen fuelled engines. The US is going down the hydrogen route and even Porsche are looking at synthetic fuel at present. I predict the short term popularity of EV but hydrogen will win and be the over all winner by the 2030s. It’s not the end for combustion engines.
@Kevin Turner well the UK is almost at 85% of adults having had a vaccine, so according to your statement it looks like the number of people who want hydrogen sits at maybe 15%? Not that many then huh! Probably not going to be a thing for road transport, otherwise I'm sure we would be seeing a lot more happening with it.
Its great the honesty and genuine detail you put into the experience. We are definitley not ready for an electric car world.... It honestly looks teribble and you are right it will put people off. I can honestly say I do not want to wait more than 5 to 10 mins at any fill up of any car so this looks... Its like hours out your day at times.
Well, it was never going to be cheaper than fossil fuels. Just wait until the tax incentives are removed and the lost revenue takings start to take effect.
Shhhhhh, none of this even slightly realistic until the government(s) dig their tax claws into electricity. I’ll actually bet on a HUGE annual tax when you renew license plates all based on the miles driven
LOL soo wrong. This was outdated when it launched. Porsche somehow screwed up chose insane performance over usable range. When their competitors were getting close to 300 Miles for slightly less performance BEVs. Range EFFICIENCY is key as that also equates to Charging Time PER Distance. Taycan Turbo & E-Tron SUV are just the worst and have no relevance to most attainable BEVs.
@@davidg8628 What's "pretty fast" ... quantify it. Progress is a relative thing and relative to when the push for EVs etc began things like the progress of power storage in batteries has slowed. Lithium and rare earth required for battery and EV technology is mined, so no different to clean coal mines. The rate of progress has slowed compared to the early days (last 10 years). Ditto for solar. Photovoltaic solar is close to reaching its limits technologically, so the rate of growth to produce energy from sun has also slowed due to the limitations of photovoltaic cells.
Many of the charging stations in the US are government subsidized. So you have to account for that when calculating costs. The subsidies skew the costs, just like they skew the costs of the car itself.
It's very simple: don't buy an EV unless you can charge at home. Tim is talking about the experience of owning a (1) relatively short range (2) non-Tesla, (3) in London city center, and (4) he can't charge at home. Tim's situation is effectively a worst case scenario in current conditions and can't be extrapolated to (for example) a suburban American with a home charger. Once the Shmuseum open, I expect this will be a non-issue.
Exactly - these vidoes kind of seem to miss the point of EV ownership - guy drives around looking for a charge like an addict loooking for a fix when he should be just be charging overnight in his 2 bedroom British mansion.
I currently own a diesel car (which I intend to upgrade soon) and pay around 1.30 per litre, which gives me 10 miles of range. A Tesla or an EV similar to the car I currently drive would give around 3-5 miles per kilowatt on average, so paying 25p-70p a kWh at a public charger would cost 50p to over 2.00 for the same range. I'm in Norwich (left London in 2002) and I couldn't have a home charger as I live in a terrace. Gridserve are coming to Norwich later this year, but the costs are something I do like to compare.
In the US, Porsche includes 3 years of charging within their network if you have access to their Electrify America network. The closest place is 40 miles away. So that makes me pay for charging at home or out of network. In this case, early adopters are forced to suffer. Only Tesla has a larger network, but they have done EVs longer than all others.
The EV ownership experience is certainly an interesting one; there are plenty of positives, but too many stressful experiences. Now though, after covering 2,000 miles in my Taycan Turbo S, I want to dig a bit more into some of the costs and actual numbers compared to the GT4 and my previous GTC4Lusso. What do you think, are they a surprise?
No. Not really...
What you’ve proven Tim is that if you haven’t got a home charger, then having an EV as your only vehicle is simply not a viable option.
The frustrations of the public chargers are simply unacceptable for mass adoption.
You travelled 40miles out and back to add about 160miles of range. Bonkers I’m afraid
Shmee can you buy a portable charger like a Battery charger for emergencies? You ever thought of buying a generator to charge it up? Would that work?
Once the shmuseum opens and you’ve installed the home charger, it would be great to update the costs again
Tim I’ve had my BMW i3s since December 4,700 miles. I can’t charge at home so until bp pulse hiked the price by 50% on June 10th I was paying 15p per kWh. Since then I’m using Tesco at 0p kwh. With the savings I’ve bought a private number plate ending I3S
I wouldn’t be able to put up with this sort of hassle.
Hats off to you.
You definitely must have a home charger to make it viable
The UK just needs to improve the charging network. Here in NL I have no problem using a 100 km range Zoe living in an apartment. Six 22kW destination chargers within 100 meters of my home, fast chargers everywhere along the motorways.
Thing is, all these hassles are just transitional issues that we know will go away at some point - but you need the queues now to incentivise the charging network growth.
This was my comment under this video
The CAR as we know it is so successful as it offers endless, hassle less possibilities as soon as people start to encounter the problems associated with EV’s it’s just something that gets in your way. May as well use public transport
@@markrichards9934 Nonsense. At 3 cents a mile carrying 3 passengers it is far cheaper and quicker than public transport. My EV is always ready to go and I never need to do remote charging. In 2 years it has no problems and zero maintenance. NEVER had that with an ICE
Charging rage will be a thing in the future.
Most certainly, but hopefully they will design these so there's no way to cheat, and cut in line, etc.
I don't think so because if range keep increasing like it have we perhaps in 10 years see electric cars that can run 1000 miles before a charge is needed and then most people will not need to charge it in perhaps several days and you manage a long distant journey as well and perhaps we see future cars having electric sun panel for roof as well meaning that the battery is constantly charged meaning a car will be able to drive for very long distances without charging and if the sun is non existent it will drain the battery.
Hopefully solid state batteries and other advancements will make charging much faster, as well.
Will need massive parking areas next to busy highways.....Like Heathrow for example...imagine the chaos finding a vacant charging point.
looks like it's already a thing lol.
As Jay Leno stated, it was an act of genius by Tesla to sort out the infrastructure and ensure it was dedicated first.
This.
Porsche should get off heir butts and start making it happen.
Hats off to the VW/Tesco/Pod Point partnership for free for everyone charging at their super and extra stores.
But the downside was that the cars are over priced and contain too much plastic / not great build quality
Exactly this and Tesla owners like me have a very different ownership experience to this. We don’t have any of these problems at all
@@phillipcollins1103 Build quality sure, but in terms of material they are often better than their German counterparts.
The charge points should require the user to input the amount of charge requested at the start, then the charge point should display for others how long that vehicle is going to be there
That would make sense. It's a shame no one has any.
Different cars have different max charge rates and total kWh. It would be much easier for the car or phone app for your car to tell you
Love the transparency and details you’re sharing.
I'm seeing Tim more than I have seen my friends over lockdown excited for the shmuseum
Not long to wait now! Less than a week
@Ernie H yeah were in the between stage where we have some freedom but there are still restrictions in place on some things
@@Shmee150 #Shhype
Also the night fare for charging will go up as more people charge at night.
In belgium you no longer have night fare, and price of electricity is already sky high here and the infastructure is behind like the UK even worse i'd say, and YET they still push this EV stuff so hard.
@@Shockz_BE renewable energy, solar panels everywhere. Make it happen.
[citation required]
Or will become free if you have your own solar panels.
@@DaveBoxBG Not any more. Some states and suburbs have excess solar power and the grid does not need it, so many households get no income from the energy companies as was promised when they installed solar panels.
These are just some of the perversities when governments interfere with free markets and pick winners and losers. Let supply and demand do it's job without subsidies paid for by tax payers. Now energy prices are going through the roof.
I love the NASA Swatch you’re wearing! It’s a little different than the your Daytona
Very different!
What is it exactly? I love it but can't find it
@@mattweller I believe it is this one: www.swatch.com/en-us/space-race-suoz339/SUOZ339.html
I noticed the same thing! So cool
@@nathaneggleston1190 thank you so much!
Another really worthwhile episode Tim.... thanks for sharing. First, I think this series is extremely useful and can only hope viewers, politicians and industry influencers are paying attention to your experiences and observations. Second, I have to say I find your patience with the "average speed / time expended" penalty remarkable. The truth is, "TIME", however you reckon it, is precious and has a value. Should drivers / citizens / tax payers be expected to drive a car limited to 70% of the average speed / trip duration of virtually every other car on the road? - because that is the penalty the current generation of EV / charging station infrastructure extort from users. Moreover, given the "real-world" expectations for significant growth in that infrastructure, we are I'm afraid, all heading towards a real crisis as the number of vehicles in use is growing much more quickly than the available infrastructure - at which point charging times, availability and access will become even more coveted and problematic. Add the taxes and charges you mentioned, to say nothing of the need to manage increased demand on the electricity generating industry, and costs are certain to increase very quickly. In the end, trouble is brewing as the stampede towards an EV only future gathers momentum. Allowing politicians to determine the future of so large and vital a segment of our economy is madness and is certain to end in a host of unintended consequences that will almost certainly result in a dramatically more costly, inefficient and frustrating experience for everyone. When will we we ever learn...
A Revolution is a must
Unintended consequences. Ermm.
Bit like the diesel fiasco?
As soon as governments press like mad in one direction, do the opposite.
Guaranteed to come up trump's.
Me, 2 NA V8's & a flat 6.
& Not changing.
Period.
I like the E46 lurking in the background!
Good video 😀
Tesla owner here, the EV life when away from home for a few days or more can be painful. Charging at home makes day-to-day use a none issue but still the infrastructure for time away is lacking.
The good news though is that it is getting better very quickly. With Gridserve quickly sorting out motorway services and companies like ubitricity installing lots and lots of street charging in London etc.
The end goal is that you don’t ever go somewhere to charge, you just charge when you are doing something else and your car is parked (which is most of the time). It will eventually be the case that wherever you park you can trickle charge, little and often, and you won’t have to think about it. The difficult thing coming from a petrol car is switching that mindset, especially as it’s not realistic right now if you can’t charge at home, but one day, the idea of going somewhere to charge OR fill up will be obsolete, and the car will just be ready for you when you need it.
2p to charge overnight at home until the government realise there’s an electric car registered at your address and allow electric companies to slap £500 a year extra on your bill to cover the losses from duty on petrol, independent of the mileage covered. They cannot afford to lose that income.
Tim trying to build a relationship with his Porsche dealer with the Taycan & GT4 probably to get an allocation for a GT4 RS. Cheeky. Plus gets to make content with both vehicles. Win-Win.
same with the AMG GTR, GTR Pro, GTR Pro Roadster
@@orlandopenahernandez7631 all of these Mercedes just for the amg one
The difference in the AMGs is that he placed an order for each of them I believe. He bought the Taycan and GT4 from the dealer’s available inventory. This is usually a sign of a brand selling you their inventory in exchange for an exclusive model allocation.
@@simpsonsfreak6042 no, for the black series.
@@orlandopenahernandez7631 We can talk about all the Fords just for the GT too
We need to get you back with Sam & Tony ASAP ;) . Keep It up fella great work!
Tesla is honestly the only sensible option in the states rn. They are at least 5 years ahead of the competition in therms of infrastructure.
B. Gates also chose Taycan over Tesla
Might make sense in the US here in Australia Tesla's are luxury cars most averaging $100k plus
So are out of reach of most people I've only seen about 3 Tesla's in 2 or 3 years in Western Sydney
Tesla is amazing all around
@@AAziem-xk6bm Gates is a well known Porsche fanboi and has a dislike of musk so don't image there was any chance he wouldn't.
Anyone that has spent even a little time looking into EV knows you need to charge at home the stations are for long trips.
South M having all chargers out would be a supplier issue not Tesla's
Being able to charge at home makes owning an EV an entirely different experience! Unfortunately, the charging infrastructure there in the UK, and here in the states, still needs A LOT of work. Being able to charge my Model Y at home and never having to think about re-charging (outside of long road trips) has been an awesome experience.
Model 3 Perf owner in Canada. I’ve used public Tesla chargers three times in total. Rest of the time, wake up, drive. Get home, leave it plugged in. Rinse and repeat.
Had one bay (in Squamish) broken, neighbouring bay working fine.
Current price octopus energy 5p kw 00.30 to 04:30. I get 3 to 4 miles per kw. Less than 2p a mile.i only have 3.4kw charger setup that gives 14kw a night. About 40-50 miles per day.
Yea I suffer from depression and watching these each day actually help. Provided a little break and something to look forward to. Thanks for what you do.
Stay strong my friend, take care, kindest regards, Richard U.K
Home charging even cheaper - 5p a kw overnight 00:30 - 04:30 ... 3phase charger will give you 11Kw/h - so 75kw fill up, 4hours at 11kw =44kw @ 5p + 30kw @13p kw = £2.20 + £3.90 = £6.10 to charge up overnight, so around 3.5p per mile
Cheers for covering all this. How is this the future, when half the chargers don’t even work. Wait time seems crazy even without Range anxiety.
There is a crack in your Taycan’s windscreen as well!
I was wondering the exact same thing
@@cerebrious1410 Probably... i saw too...
Well that seems like an absolute nightmare.
Indeed, maybe he should not of bought the Taycan Turbo.
Which is why the car to buy is a Tesla. None of these hassles at all.
@@raydoherty5419 Even the cheaper Hyundai Kia Group 64kwh cars have none of these problems.
@@Neojhun yes true, they charge slower but what he is going through is pretty bad. Also the range in that car isn’t good at all. I drove to a concert last night in my 2021 Long range model 3, was 140 miles round trip, left at 88% and got back home at 49%.
@@raydoherty5419 Lol, no. Of course Tesla has their own network, but so does Porsche. The Taycan was made to use IONITY and Ecotricity in the UK. There are plenty of those in the UK. Use these chargers and you will get around as quickly as a Tesla, only you will be in a better car too. Win win.
I applaud your patience. As a Tesla owner for the past 8 years, watching your experiences with charging is startling. I’m frustrated for you. I wish you could experience what it’s like living with a Tesla Model S Performance instead. The driving experience is exhilarating. The real-world range is much closer to 300 miles than 200. The Tesla charging network is a blissful experience. Most Tesla charging locations have 10 to 20 stalls in my experience-and they just work (hilariously, you found a station that didn’t)-and when you arrive there is almost never a queue. When you pull up, the cables are all the right length, and you plug in and walk away-you don’t have to press any buttons, or use any credit cards-the station just talks to the car and bills you automatically. That’s pretty funny you found a supercharger station that is out-of-service-I’ve never heard of an entire station being out; however, I live in the U.S.. I hope the infrastructure improves quickly for you Shmee. Stick with it, and enjoy your road-trip. When you can charge the car in the Shmuseum, you’ll be quite stoked. What a pretty car. I think the Audi E-Tron GT might be almost prettier-Nah…I can’t make up my mind.
Time is money, it's not worth having to charge and wait..
Then don't buy a Taycan Turbo. Porsche made a distinctive choice to knee cap the range for insane performance. Luckily attainable BEVs with over 250 miles are nothing like that. Most people can't afford a car like the Turbo.
And this is why Tesla dominates the market.
@@Neojhun So insane that it's a turd compared to a Model S Plaid, with less range. So, how's that "insane performance" work? You gonna argue that it's for the handling?
The Porsche is a nicer car with better handling, but the range and the acceleration is a joke. Telsa destroys them in both metrics, and the Plaid is so much faster that it's downright silly. 130 vs 150mph in the quarter mile is so hysterically different that it's like racing a Camry against Porsche 911
@@rustler08 Dude read my other comments. I ain't a fan of the Taycan.
@@rustler08 dude it has been proven a lot of times that porsche underestimates their range while tesla always overestimates every single thing. The result of that is that the Taycan pretty much has the same range as the current model S.
We will have to wait and see the real figures of the upcoming model s. You can not compare it before it exists. Its the same as people always commenting that a tesla roadster is faster than some other car. That has been done for years now, but the car still inst even out there... dont compare current cars to non existent future cars. Compare them side to side when they are both there.
Tim has finally got a new watch! Love a new timepiece
Fueling/charging a Tesla is about 1/4 the cost of running an ICE vehicle in my experience in the US. My bmw used to cost around $300 a month for fuel and my Tesla costs $75 a month to keep charged based on same driving habits and same mileage each month. When it comes to other running costs like maintenance/ issues....well the Tesla is simply $0 in that regard while the BMW was very expensive to maintain and service. Just wanted to provide actual facts rather than your conclusions here saying EVs are not cheaper to run....they are by a lot!
Thank you for being honest about your real experience.
21:23 If it took 42 mins to charge to 93% how long did it take in total including finding out the first charge station didn't work, queing for the one that did work (25mins?) and drive home?
I can account for about an hour and 10 minutes, if the drive to and from was 20mins then about 1.5 hours to fill the car. You wouldn't want to be late for work.
Great PUBLIC SERVICE video Tim. There is certainly a lot of marketing and environmentalist hype regarding the transition to EV's, it so very refreshing to see an undisputed automobile expert pour some reality into the conversation.Everyone will not be in a situation to have a home-charging station, so your usage vignettes may actually reflect normalcy and not a corner use-case. Keep up the good work and your certainly welcome and encouraged to do another US visit.
I think you need to get a Tesla to compare the two experiences properly. Even if it's only temporary. Maybe rent one for a few weeks?
Just got my first EV a week ago. We have a two car garage and charging at home is very easy, no issues. Love the instant torque and how quiet the drive is.
PITA in my view. Don’t want an electric lawnmower. Why would I replace my very reliable, paid up 3 Bmws & 1 Toyota for this headache? No reason. Producing electricity isn’t Evo friendly as it seems!
Can't wait to get my flying car.
You NEED a hack for home charging. I’ve had an EV in our rented townhouse for 1.5years. I’ve only had to DC charge a couple times. 10A from light circuit would work. It’s a game changer as you don’t watch the gauge because every day starts with a full tank regardless. I converted to your units and I pay about 2p/mile. 🇦🇺
I have been driving my Tesla Model S for almost 3 years… Supercharging cost = $0, Maintenance & Repair cost = $0, Issues = zero
Thanks for the real world lesson. We are all heading in this direction and need to know. Good job, Tim.
Should have counted how many people came and went from one petrol pump in the time it took you to charge your one car. Including the time spent in the queue.
Brilliant ongoing review, Shmee. Look forward to the next one.
Man England!. We just can’t get any kind of decent infrastructure going at all. We’ve had electricity for over a century, how hard is it to get a few plugs working? Ridiculous
And put them under a roof of some sort.
Come to South Africa where your power can be switched off for up to 7 hours a day and you still get a 19-25% increase in price annually
@@jamier7073 Lols. But irrelevant. Africa is Africa, we all know that. My issue is the UK has had a developmental head start of about a century.. ahead of Africa. So why these problems still?
@@slyowusu99 because you are not part of Europe lol xD
And compared to the rest of Europe, the UK does look like a third world country. Especially if you compare UK to countries like Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark etc.
You're absolutely correct on all fronts once again. You're not an early adopter, very early Porsche hybrids were likely a real nightmare/ineffectual and complex. I find it hard to fault your judgment in these matters; regular people can't view this as a simple car purchase that they would daily enjoy, it's more about a car connoisseur evaluating this Marque in comparison to others - and its place in the road to the potentially all-electric future. Nonetheless we're still waiting for you to take it on the Autobahn and floor it so we can hear the sound of an electric Porsche at full send. Of course if it were me I would insist on being filmed while shaving myself with an electric razor...just to get the full gestalt across to my viewers.
Tim’s concerns about charging are really more of a UK issue. They really need to step up the game in 150kW chargers in London.
Also the 175mi range he quotes appears to be the 75% SoC usage, which no other EV ever states, converting to 100% and its 233mi which is not high but within reason with the 21” wheels.
I just did a 550mile journey in a Taycan with 20” wheels and for the first leg with little wind and mostly motorway speeds I went from 100% to 13% and traveled 245mi with 38mi still remaining so 283mi range in 92F weather using AC at 72F and ventilated seats.
In California there was no issue finding ElectrifyAmerica chargers and all my sessions worked.
Very honest experience. I can sympathise in a lot of ways after 3 years being electric. BUT, it is the worst example of an honest experience. I just don’t do what you do. Ever. I charge it when I don’t use it on a destination slower charger. They are far more reliable and the charge time is the time it takes to plug in, then I’m doing something else.
Man - sorry to hear it.. in the US I never have any issues with charging whether it be with Tesla Superchargers or Chargepoint. Also, it lets you know on both of those services if there is someone using the charger at the station. Sounds like you guys have a lot fo work to do over there!
Hi Tim, one thing that have I have seen on someone else’s channel is to put skinner tires on the car to improve range. I know some people wouldn’t want to do that to their taycan turbo S, but if you want range the wide tires that come on the turbo S impact range pretty severely.
Moral of the story: If you are going to buy an EV, charge at home.
And therefore give up any idea of travelling in your EV.
No buy a Tesla and also charge at home
Or just buy a Tesla, having owned a number of different EV's the experience is night and day, the Tesla experience is how it should be.
@@whlphil looking forward to the new "cheaper" Tesla model.
@@cgln8760 indeed, very nearly bought an ID3 but the interior is just nasty, a small Tesla will definitely be on my list
Thank you Shmee for this review. It is very useful and informative. Thanks for your clarity!
The Hammersmith charger experience is just a simple "no f***ing way". Queueing, then the inevitable broken charger. Unbelievable. Imagine the added fun of someone else having just pulled into the free machine while you found yours was broken. That would be an enjoyable conversation about who has priority. Good luck with that in London.
As usual an excellent report. I am still not convinced about EVs! I think oil companies are going to put a
spanner in the works with some sort of synthetic fuel. I also think your point of the road tax and all the
other charges increasing is spot on.
I hope so!
A very informative overview of your EV experience.
Yes Ev's are the highly unfortunate future (maybe temporarily before other tech comes into play), but your experiences are proving that it is too early to take the plunge before you have to. Even then you have the alternative of not buying an EV....instead just continuing to run your ICE cars.....you have plenty to choose from Tim
One thing missed from your cost calculations....if it is quicker (and more reliable) to drive 20 miles out of London to charge-up, there is a 40 mile round-trip to add into the calculations (20% of your theoretical 200 mile range) and therefore this cost should be factored in too.
I admire your impartiality in this Tim..... good and fair reporting. Bravo
Is the windscreen on the Taycan cracked aswell?!
Was thinking the exact same thing...!?😳
Yes
That's what I appreciate about you Shmee, you don't dress it up, you say it as it is, if it's good, you say so, if it's crap, you say so, keep it going mate, honesty goes a long way......🤗🤗🤗
1. When old streetlight sodium lamps are replaced with LED lamp heads, there's a network of urban kerbside posts with spare capacity that can be re-purposed to provide overnight slow EV charging capacity everywhere. Requiring providers to offer plug-in slow charging at every space in any off street parking structure by a certain date would also be a reasonable accommodation.
Thanks for working so hard to make videos for us, Mr. Burton! We appreciate it a lot!
How much cheaper would it be on a car that doesn’t take premium fuel
I’m glad u r doing this. As an engineer I can honestly say the problem is not the cars themselves, they are as good as they can possibly be made. The issue is the infrastructure and also, what no one mentions, is the change to everyone’s life to make them work. Example, u stop off to fill up on the way to work in a petrol car takes 5 mins, electric car takes an hour. Will ur boss accept that as an excuse for lateness?!
Plan B: Stick with petrol /diesel for now?, unless you live in a house with its own driveway or carport
I found a parking garage near Washington DC the other week that had a Porsche specific charging station on the bottom, 15 Tesla stations on the roof, and a few more generic chargers on the floor below that. Very cool
Shmee maxed out his cards buying cars 🤣
Your point about the throughput capacity of a traditional gas station vs a charging station is very valid. 5 minutes at a gas station vs 45 minutes at fast charger.... so you would need 9 times as many charging stations as gas stations... I know that the idea is to charge off hours at home, so the reality is unknown, but as EV cars become more common, charging station backups will have people swapping back to gas!
Here in amsterdam i have 2 (slow) public charging stations on my street (2 spots each) and at least 5 more within a 5-10 minuite walk from my front door. fast charging is cool and all, but you cant beat just leaving the car plugged in overnight around the corner.
This is what governments need to focus on, L2 charging. DC fast chargers for trips are not the issue.
It makes smart business sense that car storage facilities such as the one Shmee has used for years to install ev fast chargers as more people buy ev's
The frustration. The thought about taking a car for a ride drive by 20 gas stations and have to worry if you can fill it up and get home. Home charger helps 80 percent, then the only chargers you need to worry about is the ones 150 miles away. I’m sure ev owners is under 10 percent of drivers could you imagine if it jumped to 15 to 20 with the current infrastructure .
It will not "jump". It will increase gradually, just like any other change/evolution.
With home charging most people never go to a public charger. I have two EV's and haven't been to one in over a year. I have done long road trips and yes you use them then but my experiences have been mostly positive.
Love that you spend time also on EVs, Tim. I have petrol cars (BMW, Porsche, McLaren) and I have a Tesla 3 Performance. I recommend you try a Tesla along with the Taycan, and of course now a Plaid would be a good choice. The most important reason; the Supercharger network. I have had my Tesla 2 years. Have home charger. Mostly still charge on the road. Elon built the charger network first for a reason. Making it EASY for the consumer. Over the last two years, never a whole charging station down, have had a few times when I had to wait. Mostly though a very good experience. Making the EV life work! Plus the autopilot is a game changer on long trips. You step out of the car after 15 hours reasonable fresh compared to gutted.
You also left out the yearly cost of your time, with an average of 90 minutes to charge every time you charge on a good day :)
Once you have a charger at your house/museum it is much easier. Here in the US the hard part about EV’s is long trips become a nightmare. For short trips around town they are great however, once you are traveling farther or if you live in a rural area forgot finding a charger or if you can find one you are going to be waiting hours to be fully charged.
This is the problem. "Unfortunately this is the way things are going". We're just sheep and deserve it unless people wake up!
Why does it matter? Petrol is killing the world and thats a fact, we have to do something about it we cant just keep going along with it
LOL Wake up indeed. This is a $150,000 Super GT. It has massively compromised performance over usability. Porsche just screwed up with TURBO variant of Taycan. Luckily it's the crazy expensive top trim. Which very few people can afford thus very few people will have that problem.
@@saqz11 Everything you know is from your TV. If you actually did some research, it's hard btw 100s of hours your opinion would change. come back to me with "Facts" when you do some research. Stop watching your television and read some books.
So Shell installs charge stations and they're out of order! Well no kidding that's a brilliant strategy.
Porsche screwed up with the Tycan Turbo. It has little relevance to the 250 mile Plus & 30 Minute DC Fast Charging BEVs. They sacrificed traction and performance over range too the point it's barely useable. Luckily very few people can even afford to buy one thus has very little relevance to BEVs.
@@karlvanginderdeuren4009 Yep it's fine for people who never need to do more than 180 miles. For people who can afford a $100,000 most likely means they own other cars.
Hi Tim, I have just got into the new Honda CR-V E:HEV and its a great SUV to run I'm getting around 51 - 54Mpg and the is just over 200 miles on the clock and that's around town and its a great car but it has no transmission it just has one gear it has the new ECVT with no belts infact if you check it out it's clever and one of a kind plus Honda have sold 9 million CR-V world wide since its launch back in 1995. The CR-V will use full EV as much as it can on every journey and engine comes in just to charge up the battery but the switch between the full EV & engine is very hard to pick up on the only way I can tell is to look at the dash. It's main rival is the Toyota RAV 4 they run very close but the CR-V runs silent as you drive down the road and the build quality its bang on on plus Honda's as a rule dont break down and last a life time. I should point out Hybrids don't work for motorway driving full stop and the engine is used to power the front wheels but still switches between EV & Engine in about a 45 second cycles also I think for time being Hybrids are best way to go as charging points are few and far between and some are broken. Cheers Alan B P.S Its only cost me £16.00 to cover 200 miles in a big heavy SUV. I spent months doing my homework prior and they claim the Toyota is ever so slightly better on MPG but Honda is a much nicer car by a country mile in my sole opinon.
Finally a realistic portrayal of EV life.
Really good and honest account of where we are at now. Thank you. I think the infrastructure will improve and soon we will be living in a world where you can pretty much pull into any 'gas' station and 'fill' up! Hang in there! My bigger concerns are the carbon footprint / environmental impact of buying an electric car (all that power comes from a power station over an inefficient grid) and the longevity of the batteries (will the range drop once the batteries are old / in winter / if you keep doing mini charges).
Love the vids Shmee
Thank you
Thats a great review Tim.As you point out a lack of chargers is the most problems for owning an EV. Defnitly not destined for Africa. As here in South Africa we are having frequent blackouts for the last couple of years. So i will stick to my Focus ST250 for now. Bedt regards
Also, on the topic of depreciation (how do i spell that lol) keep in mind the innovations in the EV space. If the next porsche has a 500mile range (or something) then this one is f*cked
Personally, I don’t think (in the future anyway) people won’t be buying EV, they will lease them. For many reason, mainly due to purchase price and also maintenance outside of warranty (can’t imagine replacing those motors or batteries is cheap). So I think people will lease them for 3 years, give them back and get a new one.
I might be wrong mind.
@@kieranblacker any legitimate concerns for the cost of ownership long term, or for depreciation, will be reflected in the cost of a lease too. One of the reasons why EV leases are priced fairly low at the moment (compared to the purchase price) is because depreciation is really low on EVs. High demand keeps the prices high!
If you download the ZapMap app, it tells you in realtime wether or not charging stations are available or being used. It also reports if chargers are not working. A little planning can save charging frustration.
Until it is as easy as filling up at a bowser then ev's just won't be ready.
If you have a home charger they are easier than an ice car for 99% of the time.
@@Telcontarnz no
@@headcandyentertainment4001 because?
@@Telcontarnz yes
@@headcandyentertainment4001 helpful
Great job breaking down the cost per mile and comparisons between fuel and charging.
The NASA watch is pretty cool too 😎
Spot the 24 year old BMW (Update..Nissan Primera that looked a lot like a BMW 316 Coupe!) still giving good service in front of you…will the Taycan lasts as well and how many new batteries will it have needed.?? That Nissan is probably still on it original drivetrain which is far more genuinely eco friendly than any current EV.🙁🙁
Citation required.
That you can say to any new Car out there. I don't know if a new BMW with a combustion Engine will last 20 Years or even more. The Cars from the mid 80s through the mid 90s are superior. My Audi is nearly 28 Years old, about 600k km and still first Engine, but second transmission.
Where's the BMW? At 7:37 in the video he's behind a 1997 (24 years old) "P" plate Nissan Primera.
@@jonnyhuk2 Yes you are right but from the brief glimpse when I watched the film, a BMW 316 Coupe does look almost identical in a quick glance. So yes..it is a 1996 Primera on at least 111,000 miles (note the change in readings when it was fitted with a new speedometer or was “clocked”). The point remains…24 years of presumably good service but with current technology a 24 year old EV will have had a lot of very expensive work to keep it on the road…we need vastly improved charging abilities and a giant leap in battery design which may well come but for the moment, EV ‘s are not the correct answer….they are a temporary distraction whilst we bury our heads in the desert sands hoping not to realise the true cause of World pollution…and it is not your car that is the problem…..😐
Just subscribed. I like your perspective. It seems the quicker the charge the higher the cost.
Very surprising to hear there are not dedicated fleet charging stations for the Taxis.
Always a nightmare when the government mandates as opposed to the market dictating.
This has nothing to do with government mandates. That is just ideology you have been programmed to think. Governments did not mandate Porsche to build an overkill fast Super GT that compromises Range for Insane Performance. This has no relevance to attainable BEVs with well over 250 miles range. Which massively changes usability.
@@Neojhun ok sweetie
@@john-vy1ml LOL pointless reply when you have no viable argument.
@@Neojhun Well said.
Good honest review 👍
Tim, how much real time did it take from leaving your home and getting the tank to 93%?
Something he should have mentioned.
Good video Tim. I like the fact you briefly touched on the batteries.
A friend of mine has a Taycan turbo s which, for some reason, experienced a fatal battery fault.
It was covered under the warranty of course, but he managed to sneak a look at the worksheet at Porsche.
MOTHER. OF. GOD. I'm not going to tell you the figure. All I will say is that, once the batteries die after 3 or so years, there are going to be a LOT of these cars on the market at discount prices!
Personally I won't be adopting EV until I'm forced to do so.
It just isn't anywhere near right yet. And if, like me, you live in the countryside far away from anything even remotely resembling a decent speed charging station, it just isn't viable.
The wasted time is also a huge thing too. If like you say you could be looking at an hour and a half of waiting and charging time, for me that is several hundreds of pounds of wasted time per charge.
What percentage of charging stations cause issues for you, approximately?
None with a Tesla
@@ShizAudi Thanks....
@@ShizAudi i'm guessing you didn't watch the video?
@@hellmekun heheh. I was typing basically the same comment as ShizAudi right when Shmee showed us the buggered Tesla station. Hilarious. I’ve never experienced anything worse than one bad stall out of 16-20 myself; but, I guess it can’t all be perfect.
As a Tesla driver since March 2020 I think I am contractually obliged to report my own experiences:
Super Charging sessions : ~35 to 40
Broken Chargers : Zero
Failed Sessions : Zero
Total Time Queueing : None
Number of times getting the coffee took longer than the charging : about 50-75% ?
Also have to madd - cost ranges from 20p (Heathrow) to 32p (Warwick) per KWh. Average about 28p ish
Flame below
I love the maths behind this etc! But most every day people have a diesel car, now I have a 1.9tdi seat Leon and worked out roughly it costs me 11p a mile now that’s assuming my range is around 650 but in truth on a long drive I’ve hit 700-750 so it’s probably less than 11p per mile! All I’m saying is there not really that cheap/ affordable! And buying one is just so expensive!
No electric car is worth it really haha unless you can lease it for like £200 or something at the same price point as the ICE equivalent. Only the e-golf has been similar from what I’ve seen with the Golf ICE variant and with Audis, it’s just insanity wherein the E-trons cost over 50% more
I’ve had my Leon a few years and love it, I’d really find it hard to justify this cost as well as depreciation on these new EVs. I feel like they will date very quickly as they progress so quickly. Perhaps if the batteries last, I could justify buying one that’s a few years old but for now I’m not convinced either!
Great video, we run a i3 but it's a range extender and everything you describe is 100% correct. We are lucky charge at home use solar in summer no cost and night units on Octopus at night just 5p Kwh. Buy the way very little battery degradation on a car that's 7 year's old but very little fast changing. Now we're looking to replace the i3 but because it will be all electronic only, son lives 120 miles from us therefore need real world range 260 miles.
E Fuels are the future! I love Porsche for investing in new new fuels!
Excellent video Tim; thank you. The reality of these comparable fuel costs and the lack of charging infrastructure highlighted in your previous charging video mean I won't buy into electric for some years to come.
The fuel companies will in time roll out hydrogen filling stations. Toyota are developing hydrogen fuelled engines. The US is going down the hydrogen route and even Porsche are looking at synthetic fuel at present. I predict the short term popularity of EV but hydrogen will win and be the over all winner by the 2030s. It’s not the end for combustion engines.
Hydrogen is yesterday's answer to tomorrows problem.
@Kevin Turner well the UK is almost at 85% of adults having had a vaccine, so according to your statement it looks like the number of people who want hydrogen sits at maybe 15%? Not that many then huh!
Probably not going to be a thing for road transport, otherwise I'm sure we would be seeing a lot more happening with it.
Its great the honesty and genuine detail you put into the experience. We are definitley not ready for an electric car world.... It honestly looks teribble and you are right it will put people off. I can honestly say I do not want to wait more than 5 to 10 mins at any fill up of any car so this looks... Its like hours out your day at times.
Well, it was never going to be cheaper than fossil fuels. Just wait until the tax incentives are removed and the lost revenue takings start to take effect.
Shhhhhh, none of this even slightly realistic until the government(s) dig their tax claws into electricity. I’ll actually bet on a HUGE annual tax when you renew license plates all based on the miles driven
For charging an ev regulary it's easier and cheaper to use a slow charger than searching for a HPC station
Btw, the technology is not improving quickly. It did in the early stages coming off a low base, but that rate of improvement has now slowed.
What?? Technology is improving pretty fast!
LOL soo wrong. This was outdated when it launched. Porsche somehow screwed up chose insane performance over usable range. When their competitors were getting close to 300 Miles for slightly less performance BEVs. Range EFFICIENCY is key as that also equates to Charging Time PER Distance. Taycan Turbo & E-Tron SUV are just the worst and have no relevance to most attainable BEVs.
@@davidg8628 What's "pretty fast" ... quantify it. Progress is a relative thing and relative to when the push for EVs etc began things like the progress of power storage in batteries has slowed. Lithium and rare earth required for battery and EV technology is mined, so no different to clean coal mines.
The rate of progress has slowed compared to the early days (last 10 years). Ditto for solar. Photovoltaic solar is close to reaching its limits technologically, so the rate of growth to produce energy from sun has also slowed due to the limitations of photovoltaic cells.
Many of the charging stations in the US are government subsidized. So you have to account for that when calculating costs. The subsidies skew the costs, just like they skew the costs of the car itself.
Crazy to think how much it will go up when those are done
It's very simple: don't buy an EV unless you can charge at home. Tim is talking about the experience of owning a (1) relatively short range (2) non-Tesla, (3) in London city center, and (4) he can't charge at home. Tim's situation is effectively a worst case scenario in current conditions and can't be extrapolated to (for example) a suburban American with a home charger. Once the Shmuseum open, I expect this will be a non-issue.
Exactly - these vidoes kind of seem to miss the point of EV ownership - guy drives around looking for a charge like an addict loooking for a fix when he should be just be charging overnight in his 2 bedroom British mansion.
Pretty much summed it up. It is an honest experience but the worst possible honest experience.
I currently own a diesel car (which I intend to upgrade soon) and pay around 1.30 per litre, which gives me 10 miles of range. A Tesla or an EV similar to the car I currently drive would give around 3-5 miles per kilowatt on average, so paying 25p-70p a kWh at a public charger would cost 50p to over 2.00 for the same range. I'm in Norwich (left London in 2002) and I couldn't have a home charger as I live in a terrace. Gridserve are coming to Norwich later this year, but the costs are something I do like to compare.
Buy a portable petrol generator, and keep it in the boot 😂😂😂😂
Trying to make a Chevy Volt?
Hahaha good one 😂👍
In the US, Porsche includes 3 years of charging within their network if you have access to their Electrify America network. The closest place is 40 miles away. So that makes me pay for charging at home or out of network. In this case, early adopters are forced to suffer. Only Tesla has a larger network, but they have done EVs longer than all others.