Multiplayer | Movement Shooter Devlog
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2024
- Multiplayer and grindrails!
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Since so many people are mentioning other similar games I should play: I have already played Ultrakill, Turbo Overkill, Tribes, Dusk, GTTOD, Trepang, Cyber Hook, Apex, Titanfall 1/2, Neon White, Quake, Shadow Warrior, CS Surf, Devil Daggers, Halo, Tiny Wings, Exo One, and yes, the AOT fan game. Those are all the ones I can think of that are similar in some way.
[edit] *I also want to clarify my reasoning for moving on from multiplayer*
The video mostly focused on multiplayer mechanics and design, but I don't think I properly communicated the primary reasons for moving on. To be clear, while the design challenges were the focus of the video, they are *not* the reason I'm moving on. The main reason is just because multiplayer requires so much *beyond* making the game. Even if I stuck with it and made an amazing multiplayer game that got super popular, I would then have to handle community management, support, server costs, security, expectation of continued updates etc.
Multiplayer entails so much more than what I want to commit myself to for my first game, so the reality is - it does not matter if multiplayer would be the most fun, epic, amazing thing in the world. Multiplayer adds an insane amount of risk, complexity, development time, and cost. It's completely out of my wheelhouse and I want to play to my strengths. I know it's hard to let go of something that already looks fun (it's hard for me too!), but trust me on this one 🙏
For the grapple mechanics play titanfall 2 again imo the grapple in that game is probably the best thing to aim for
(Also the rest of the movement is the best in all of gaming....so far.....)
Lol, thats a amazing list
check out warfork!
That makes complete sense. And don't forget that if this game takes off insanely well on single player, nothing prevents you from creating a sequel with multi-player!
Sick, looking forward to it. Is there a public demo build yet?
Some other great or popular movement games I can think of are...
Refunct (and the prototype Refunktion) (smooth wall jumping),
Verlet Swing (grappling only),
Warsow/Warfork,
Celaria (parkour),
Karlson (iirc),
Valley (story + fast running/momentum),
Quake DeFrag,
Lightstrafe (by NGMI "ngmigames itch io lightstrafe" (not sure about linking URLs)) which is probably the most similar game to yours I can think of.
Holding crouch and seeing the metal sparks fly like a chainsaw unleashing as you zoom downhill would be amazing
Turbo Overkill did it
yeah turbo overkill did that already
Something like two bandsaws as legs since crouch slamming would be the main movement. Since chainsaw leg is what turbo overkill is known for
But no multiplayer :/ @@ikitclaw8969
turbo and ultrakill did that (mainly turbo that's kinda why I know what it is but that thing is also in ultrakill)
super underrated, hope your game turns out well!
big boy
thank you 🙏
that technique to blend the tiling at 4:08 worked insanely well. game looks awesome man
thanks!
Poor Karlson, DaniDev vanished one day and you filled in his shoes. Well done sir!
I really like the subtle change in brightness or whatever you'd call it when you start a slam.
Crazy thing that might be fun: have each player be controlled by 2 people… that’s unique and would fix the issue of one person only being able to do one at a time by literally having the players do one at a time lol.
fun idea!
Could be like Mario kart double dash: the players swap roles occasionally to use each players abilities and items + an option for a single player control scheme ofc
Got blue balled hard on this one, so many movement shooters have come out that don't have multiplayer, which is all I really want, so I was stoked to click this. Seems like in the end this is gonna be more like a Sonic game with a first-person camera, which I guess goes along with the "blue ball" theme, lol.
The movement looks good though, maybe fork the project to make a more "grounded" multiplayer game in the future?
As a suggestion for the current project, having some leaning to the sides when going through curves on the rails would be super nice.
Yea I hear ya, unfortunately I'm just not experienced enough with netcode to make the multiplayer game you are likely envisioning. Any experienced developer will (or should) agree that competitive/fast-paced multiplayer is a tall order for a first game.
I don't really like Sonic games so I can at least promise it won't be like that ha!
@@KeenanWoodall I feel like this could be really good with some tweaks and I have some ideas.
1. Adding auto tracking weapons like Titan Fall so that people could focus more on the movement. Maybe with closer ranged weapons requiring either less time to lock on if you want to do it that way or they have a bigger autolockon box.
2. Moving away from dashing and more towards b hopping would make keeping momentum easier on flat land and punish inaccurate timing allowing opportunities to be shot.
3. CTF would work really well with both of the above ideas. It would incentivize movement throughout and then create dynamic chases based on moving around objects in a way that both conserves momentum and blocks shots. Though the levels would preferably be more linear at least in part.
if you want a movement shooter with mulitplayer why not play one? you have a HL2DM pfp, quake exists, dbt etc
Great progress, well done. The 3D Speedrunners idea sounds cool for a multiplayer game/mode, some Rider's Republic inspiration mixed in might be cool, mostly downhill and would pair well with the crouch slam speed boost.
Did I hear that right? multiplayer movement shooter?!?! Game of the YEAR!!!
Fr though awesome looking game definitely keeping an eye on this one :3
This project looks so insane, i cant wait to see more from it!
If you reconsider multiplayer, check out clips of tribes ascend. It's a team based movement shooter which manages to blend both pretty nicely
100% this, also they remade it recently Tribes 3: Rivals!
Having good decision making for implemented mechanics is good, you've done a great job at communicating what you like and don't like about what you add
This looks like it would be super fun as a co-op PvE experience! maybe even with different classes that focus on rails, jumps, swings, damage, range, healing, etc..
Nice upload man - I usually search up movement shooters on here and it's cool to see you have a follow-up to your first video about this.
Awesome video. Would love a tutorial on some of the movement mechanics, they look like so much fun and theres so many game ideas that could be made using them. Keep it up, really excited to see where these devlogs go.
Honestly, looks really cool and would love to see a tag mode
this editing is sooooo good!
Very very cool. Like you mentioned, one either has to commit to movement or shooting. The speed and unpredictability of where your opponent will be is the issue causing this. Tracking seems far to difficult. So perhaps if you forgo FPS shooting and adopt an Armored Core like combat system. Where your aim is far less important and instead positioning/movement and resource management are the combat skills being tested. You can keep your high speed , unpredictable movement system and pvp combat!
None the less i wish you good luck with your project man. From one indie dev to another
thanks!
This is the most insane movement I’ve ever seen in a shooter, keep it up!
I'm telling you right now, if you publish a multiplayer game with this movement mechanics I'm buying copies for my friends too.
That's a sub. This looks awesome!
6:38 3d speedrunners sounds AMAZING, I used to play speedrunners so much
I honestly really love the way this game is turning out! A suggestion that would be really cool is to make the game a kind of multiplayer movement rogue-lite! I know that it would be pretty hard and tedious to make, but it sounds so awesome!
Maybe this would break the game, but to fix the problem of having to “switch” between movement and shooting (moving fast then stopping to shoot then moving again), you could have a weapon like Titanfall’s smart pistol, with a large reticule and seeking bullets. That way the combat becomes more about high-speed pursuits and maintaining line of sight at speed, rather than having to slow down for pinpoint accuracy. Maybe to balance it enemies/other players have regenerating health, so you have to maintain that line of sight or risk them recovering if they get away from you.
A melee weapon would be cool too, maybe where damage is determined by speed/momentum. So you build up speed to absolutely obliterate a tough enemy with one hit of your laser sword (or whatever).
Game looks awesome man, great work!
Great video! I absolutely loved it! I was wondering if you have any plans to create a "tutorial" video about the movement. I really admire the movement mechanics in your video! Keep up the excellent work!
I second this!
Thanks! I'd like to make a tutorial, but am unsure the best way to go about it. IMO it's much more art than science. There are helpful guidelines but it really boils down to practice, iteration and finding your own style. I'd rather make a tutorial about iteration/process than showing how to make a carbon copy of the player controls in my game, but I imagine most people want the latter :P
@@KeenanWoodall I see what you mean and that would be a pretty good idea! But i also think showing off /explaining how you did the sliding movement would be really cool and i dont necessarily mean a tutorial but just explaining how you can do these sorts of things would be really cool but ultimately it just boils down to what you want to do the most :)
Thanks for the video! I have always dreamed of a PVP shooter game that involved very high paced movement, but this devlog made me realize why it's probably not a thing yet. The fact that indeed you either commit to movement or to shooting is very true, people would probably not move as much in a real game because it's much easier to stand in one place and shoot the other players. With that being said I am still hopeful someone will find a decent fix/balance that will allow both.
this looks like so much fun to play already
You got something great in the early stages of development, keep it going and this might turn out to be a banger
Maybe since aiming at small enemies that move super quick is impossible and forces players to either only shoot or only move, the gamemode could intentionally use this? Like having to move quickly to capture a control point and then having a gunfight to secure it four yourself? That way both movement and shooting is important, just not at the same time.
kind of like the HECU grunts in half life 1! that games moto was “run, think, shoot, live”. so it’s clearly a concept that can work well!
It is not impossible just a skill check ever played titanfall 2? Most fights are short because there has to be really low ttk and the other guy probably can’t hit you either when he goes a super sonic speed
great job
That Movement Feels Amazing just from watching
That crouch slam reminds me so much of Tribes:Ascend (RIP 🙏)
Looking forward to seeing more of your ideas ♥
Seems a lot like Tribes. Even if you do make a very good PvP movement shooter, I still think it's a pretty niche audience who would play. You're making the right call moving to singleplayer.
I need to play this yesterday, this game looks so fun to play, and reminds me of a Roblox game called Parkour that had a similar movement system
Looks awesome. I look forward to seeing more of this project :)
Crazy progress bro 🔥🔥🔥
looks extremely fun! cant wait to try it
Something to keep in mind with the combat vs movement issue: the easiest way to solve that is weapons that directly feed the movement or feed off of it. Missiles are a decent option, but something else that might work is a melee weapon along the lines of either the Halo energy sword or the Ultrakill impact hammer; a simple weapon that either imparts momentum in a lunge, or calculates its damage based on existing momentum. It also generally feels like the main thing that combat takes away from the movement mechanics is that it forces aiming in a different direction than movement, and something melee would incentivize moving toward what you're aiming at and keep the two vectors in line.
I would love to play this game with friends! I think multiplayer combat could be made more fun just by balancing the duration you can grapple and limiting the number of times you can dash in a span of time. This gives me major Titanfall vibes. The youth yearn for titanfall movement and this could be a provider.
Brings back memories of legion: overdrive
Duuuuuude barely two days ago, I came back to your previous video for the umpteenth time, waiting for the next one and thinking that we'd probably never get a sequel. So glad you're back ! 😁🔥
Thanks! Me too :)
EXTREMELY UNDERRATED
PHMYHOD
I think keeping the scope small and keeping it focused is definitely a good idea dude. Loved the vid. Wishing you the best!
i love how this game looks like quake but really cool
I feel the Movement lends itself to a time trial racing game. Maybe hiding boosts, and shortcuts around. And other collectables. Maybe coins that you can spend on cosmetics to customize your avatar.
This is really neat. Part of me wonders if camera tracking on an enemy player, and a Warthunder style leading marker for aiming would help the fighting feel more dynamic/fluid
multiplayer could also include co-op, would be fun i think!
Instead of scrapping shooting because of how hard it can be, you could add AoE attacks, explosives and abilities that condition opponents to move in a certain direction, similar to a game called hyperscape (man I miss that game). That could lower the skill floor while also offering a sense progression towards more precise and rewarding gunplay. This is a really cool concept bro keep it up :)
Randomly got recommended to me. You have something very interesting here. Reminds me of Tribes.
super cool! i thing you can add sniper rifle and experiment with it, quick scoping should be awesome in this game! also i think you should try make rail like in bioshock infinite, so that the player hangs below the rail
there is a game called parkour, it has a pretty interesting competitive mode where there is a chaser and runner. the objective is that the runner tries to get away from the chaser, while the chaser chases. if the chaser is within 20 meters of the runner, the runner loses points, but if they are farther, then the runner gains points. if the runner dies, they lose a huge chunk of their points, but if the chases dies, their distance becomes greater which will add more points for the runner
I would replace the hitmarkers with blood that gushes out and makes the enemy stand out as hurt (similar to cs2 blood physics)
This looks like combat surf, super fun and cool
you should have a look at that if you haven''t already
Tribes was amazing and there's nothing quite like it these days
Tribes III is in early access! There are enough players matches are quick to join.
@@joelkorpela2706 oh damn it is. thanks for letting me know
Focusing more on the missiles could make the combat more fun. A Panzer Dragoon-style lock-on system could bridge the gap between requiring tight and accurate aim, and complex movement.
Also, consider the movement mechanics for Lucio in Overwatch as a contrast/case-study. Lucio's projectiles require aim and movement prediction, and that works alright in overwatch because once you're airborne there isn't that much control you have over your arc, and because lucio's primary movement tech is wall-riding which locks movement regardless of where the camera is pointed (like a grind rail), and leaps off walls, which similarly have a consistent arc regardless of camera direction.
All this to say, free-form multiplayer movement sets a very high skill floor for aiming, so gunplay in that environment requires assistance.
Some assistance ideas for your movement mechanics:
- A predictive reticle like in space sims based on the target's current movement vector
- Missile locking, as mentioned above
- Auto-pistol, which aims for the user as long as you're pointed vaguely in the right direction but fires semi-auto
- Hammer of Dawn style damage-pillar gun
- Mini-gun with fast projectiles and nearly-endless bullets, so the player has to just track their target
- Lasting laser/rail gun which leaves a dangerous beam of damage to clothesline opponents
- Halo-style Plasma-sword which homes in on targets within a certain range. Players could use this and swap it out to get a boost towards their target and try and match the target's vector
- Grapple to moving targets?
- wide-Net-gun which puts the target into ragdoll if it hits
Lots of ideas, many of which are probably bad, but considering Tribes, Overwatch, and Titanfall found successful formulas with similar movement mechanics, I believe there's big potential here.
Resources and cooldowns might help with the game feel. Like an incentive system for interacting with the environment. Maybe ammo spawns in hard to reach places, and these could be zones where players congregate and big fights happen. Scrambling for resources also makes it easier to predict where the opponent is headed. Just off the top of my head. Looks fun already tho
This looks so gas. I'd pay to play this.
Very nice idea.Ill subscribe for more!
You can still make movement the main skill in the game if you keep all gunplay to medium range and add some melee combat options, like a western with swords type of deal
You should add a multiplayer HORSE mode. HORSE is a basketball game where players first say what shot they are going to take, then they do it, then their opponent tries as well, if one succedes and the other fails, you get a letter, when you get all of them you win. Might be hard to come up with a way to impliment that, but it means your multiplayer could litterally just be people hanging out and challenging eachother
for the rails, you could use something similar to portal, as in it kind of nudges them in the right direction vs snapping them right into it.
that way if they wanna land on the rails they will but otherwise they will go the direction they want to
The children yearn for titanfall.
Jokes aside, this is a neat project, hope you have fun with it!
You need to make the rails more enticing because at the moment the rails are less convenient compared to skiing and zip lining everywhere
I think a great way to implement multiplayer in your game would be (as you already said) racing modes, and maybe a mode where you play with your friends against AI ennemies ? But with the current gameplay, i don't know if pvp is a good idea. and if you still want to add pvp, definitly add a long range weapon (sniper ? or (don't remember what it's called) but the sniper with no scope ? Good luck in the devlopment of your game !
I really dig the racing aspect of this movement system. I feel something like a Cart Combat type game would be sick, you have special weapon pickups around the track, and you are just trying to take out whoever is ahead of you, wile dodging attacks from behind. Everyone is roughly headed the same direction, so players would have to be good at playing Defensively, and Offensively.
And maybe adding a side dash ability or being able to wall jump. So you can quickly change direction and dodge, at the cost of a little speed maybe?
wtf this game looks juicy as hell, lemme know when I can wishlist on steam
nice
i think this might get more views if the title more clearly indicates this is an indie devlog rather than some sort of video essay (which i thought it would be)
good callout I didn't think about how it might be interpreted that way. *fixed*
idea: you can encourage movement in a multiplayer context by adding a damage multiplier that increases with your speed. this could be paired with a speed counter like your friend suggested.
i like the idea of earning rockets its a positive feedback and is really fun, maybe wen you start working on concept art make so that the main character is a robot or mech cuz i love big man made things
this is honestly a genius fuckin idea. NEEDS combos and style points though holy SHIT
Looks amazing so far! Instead of shooting you could just make it into a game of tag :)
This is totally the type of game I would love to play but seems like is difficult to get mainstream traction. I hope it works out well for you. Best of luck!
Maybe a way to balance the movement would be to have temporary incremental max speed limit increases per kill, so all players would start slower and gradually build speed to a max but then as they chain kills together their max speed can increase. If you then add a fall and collision damage based on speed, it would then create a way to increase the difficulty of play when on a high kill streak. I think you have something really cool here btw
you might not see this but I have a few suggestions:
- when sliding add sparks like a chainsaw that increase the faster you go
- singleplayer pve (like ultrakill) and / or multiplayer PvE
- slowmo or something like that to make pve easier or smthn
tbh I just want another ultrakill-like
this game looks fire fr
Hell yes, family.
an idea you could add is the camera only clamping when you are on the floor(similar to dusk) so that you can do back and frontflips(also parry)
Cool update fam!
I think a good way to solve the "unforgiving" rails could be to make them grappable or grapplable. you could tweak the grapple range and/or speed
This reminds me of the old AoT tribute game. If you haven't played it, you used the scroll wheel to reel in and out of your grapple. It felt really good, and allowed you to swing when you wanted and zip straight to your grapple point if you cranked it hard enough. It's also really hard to fit everything on comfortable binds without a many-buttoned mouse, but maybe you can think of something more intuitive that requires less buttons.
Yea I remember playing the AoT game in high-school, it was cool. Variable reel-in speed is something I've thought about but wasn't sure of a good way to map it to keyboard and controller (that wouldn't steal buttons used for other stuff) But now that you mention it, I might be able to map forward movement (W or Left Stick) to reel-in speed when grappling since I don't *think* you really need to press forward while swinging 🤔
The dev legit just said: You want movement? Here have all the movement lol
From my years and years of playing FPS of all types, I've concluded that there is a good reason Quake died. There is a certain point when a FPS becomes too fast, making it far less enjoyable. You just have to find the right balance of movement speed and mechanics. Also the guns must match it appropriately to allow for maximum skill expression while not being impossible for casuals.
Simple, game, and I think devil daggers.
id say keep going on the multiplayer :)
Very interesting game. I do think the movement and combat are very much at odds with each other sadly. As someone who's been playing quake competitively for a while I tend to find in movement oriented games less it more, and more skillful movement is better. The movement in this game focuses on being unique and satisfying and I personally think it will lend much better to a single player experience. Best of luck to you on your work!
instant sub 5 seconds in. Excited to see how this turns out!
never seen an indie movement shooter with wall running before, well done
The children yearn for movement shooters
Try not to burn yourself out doing this
And an idea for a minigame that would be cool to see is a timed mode where you accumulate style points where you can get bonus multipliers from killing enemies or collecting some random objectives on the map, and you'll lose the bonus if you are on the ground for too long, kind of akin to the Tony Hawk style system less of UltraKill.
Also! A discord would be great idea. I'm not sure if you have that in mind. It would be amazing to see how the game progresses over-time, and you'll be able to get more feedback and or help for your game if you ever needed it.
Haha thanks! All good ideas :)
I have faith in you, just because your double barrel looks right
You could add cones above the rails that funnel players into it from above? just throwing an idea out!
I think if you want to do fast movement and multiplayer, you probably need to drop the "shooter" part and make it melee-focused so movement and positioning is a more significant part of the combat.
an idea for combat could be speed based damage that could promote direct and faster combat, you could possibly make it so you deal more damage the faster you are and moving in a certain direction. Ex going fast towards someone would deal more damage while moving away will deal less damage
also your animations have sauce what are you smoking]
A way to fix the missile transform Sync is to give ownership to the client the missile is following. So the client being targeted calculate themself the mouvement of the missile and it will be a better experience for them
Ahhh you’re right, thanks for pointing it out. Sounds obvious in hindsight haha 🫣
you should try mimicking the air strafing seen in source engine games. it would be like the cherry on top
sounds like you need a smart pistol
Feedback said there was a dilemma of the player having to choose either good movement or good shooting. This is cause, as speed increases, it becomes harder to land shots, technically punishing players for going fast. One idea I think is good to fight this is to make an aim assist system that increases in accuracy as velocity increases.
Works as a counterbalance to make speed both fun and optimal.
hear me out, you take this movement, and make a collectathon.
BIG, but not TOO big open levels designed for sliding and flinging yourself around.
but instead of collecting stars or some other generic macguffin.
you could be collecting the heads of demons or aliens or something like that
each "collectable" could be this fun little fight you had shmove to find.
For solo player enemies, i winder how it would feel if all of the enmires were massive enemies. Something like youre swinging around titans, destroying their cores which exist in various locations depending on the enemy type. This means that enemies are easy to hit so you dont have to worry about slowing the game down, whike also providing a dynamic arena to navigate as your enemies are large enough to grapple off of.
love it!