Just a visualization of how Fire and Stomp attacks are handled in Dark Souls 1-3 and Elden Ring Forward Fire Breath 0:00 Downward Fire Breath 2:50 Stomp Shockwave 3:54
They really can't decide if they prefer "swarm of moving hitboxes" or "a few expanding big hitboxes", huh. It doesn't even seem to be a game-dependent thing
And they also can't agree if they should expand in discrete steps (Kalameet and then Storm King) or continuously (Ancient Dragon). And now that I've watched it again I noticed that the Storm King Downward Fire Breath at 3:33 is the only one that wasn't recorded at 0.25 speed. Picked the wrong clip for that.
I think that just depends on what each particular fire effect is for. Like for example if it's evenly spreading against the ground an expanding hitbox works just fine. Versus a narrow jet of flame where it has to be more precise. Multiple hitboxes also mean you'll be damaged faster for standing in the flames.
I'd imagine the "swarm" style is better for the more moving around/stays around for a while. Kalameet I think best exemplifies that, the fire stays around for a while after he's done breathing in that zone making the danger zone kinda stick around in a more natural way. While in ds2 Ancient dragon just kinda spews a big stick of no go zone, cause he just kinda covers a thin angle of the arena, so the hit boxes don't have to be as precise. Like, you aren't going to kinda follow through the flames to attack ancient dragon's head, while you might want sort of follow kalameet's head to attack him.
I think it depends on how they want the player to deal with the attack If it's swarming hitboxes like elden ring dragons they want the player to run around the fire / run away If it's one big hitboxes they expect the player to be able I frame through it which isn't the case with elden ring Personally I like big hitboxes more because it's more consistent and encourages a more aggressive play style and not always disengage the second fire appear, also because elden ring fire hitboxes are bull*hit and random
What I think is insane about this channel is that even in videos where you show COMPARISONS, no opinions or bias, people will STILL come out of the woodworks just to insult one game or the other it's insane. You're doing good work all around tho this shit is really interesting.
Note that not all of those hitboxes do damage. Like at 4:30 there's a huge one around Ancient Dragon that merely staggers (or actually plays the weak knee animation and slows you down). Same at 5:03
@@minecraftgravityguy Gravetender Wolf and Ancient Wyvern were kinda bad, but I agree it wasn’t nearly as prevalent as it is in ER. Nearly impossible to fight a dragon without it happening at least once in that game
Sinh Forward Fire Breath is same as Ancient Dragon. His Stomp Shockwave also expands with the dust animation like it does for Ancient Dragon. His poison cloud hitbox expands slowly with the poison fog.
Sinh is infinitely worse than Kalameet, constantly flying around making you chase him, leaving his annoying ass area denial fart gas like some kinda MOBA character and making you lose extra durability on every hit. Hes not even hard hes just tedious AF. Easily the most overrated dragon fight. Kalameet atleast has the decency to stay within melee range for the majority of the fight.
@@sasaki999pro 1. That decency is solely because of Gough. 2. All Kalameet's finesse gets thrown out the window once you try cutting his tail and you see him glide-rotate after you
@@ecchi4196 RE: 1. I fail to see how an external narrative element has any bearing on the boss fight on a mechanical level. there are just as many gimmicks in DS2 that are borderline mandatory just to make the boss fights even remotely reasonable, like gathering the Loyce Knights for the Ivory King, Shutting off the ashen Idols to Fume Knight, draining the poison from Mythas boss arena. RE: 2. Going for Sinhs tail is just as asinine if not more. Still doesn't invalidate any of the grievances I listed.
i feel like some of these attacks really should of used lines / tracers instead. especially for the fast sweeping attacks. like instead of throwing a bunch of invisible balls, all of which do massive damage if you accidentally walk into it. shower a bunch of tracers, and how many tracers you accumulate determines the damage (and applies burn). plus, easier to calculate the time / distance that way too for damage falloff. and, it'd could allow the shield to be useful to absorb the tracers, resulting in the classic 'shield blocking dragon fire' imagery. but i like the multi-staging or growing hitbox best for the big huge telegraphed attacks atleast, as shown in ds2 ancient dragon.
Mohgs Bloodflame is the perfect example. Souls games should really move away from the philosophy of the player needing to dodge every single attack, as opposed to mitigating as much as possible. At least with ER its starting to happen.
@@shinyhydreigon7257 Yeah, that's a great example. Quick ranged attacks really should primarily do status effect absorption in general. Really, the souls formula needs an overhaul to make damage Mitigation be common place, rather than damage Avoidance. Making status ailments be more indepth, having different effects depending on how much you have. And having more physical states depending on certain factors. But ofc, I have Immersive Sim bias. And it's why I always respect DS2 for attempting to inject in more of those aspects (poison liquid accumulation being a physical attribute, so if you dont roll you'll have slower poison rate)... and it's always sad they didn't build off it more.
I can confidently say I hate trying to figure out where the safe zone is for dragons fire breath in any of them lol Everytime "please do a melee attack" 😅😅😅
i know is not a dragon but i wish i could see the hitbox of the ulcerated tree spirits flamethrower attack, i feel like i have been hit by it way too manny times in unexplicable spots, like im right practically hugging it and from no where i get hit by plain air.
I hate the bridge Drake in DS1, because the straight downward fire one shots you unless you have like 30 vigor and good fire gear despite it being an early area and the other fire breaths doing like less than half as much damage.
In Demon Souls ps3, I know the dudes chucking rocks down at you on the start of Stonefang Tunnel...the dust from the rocks impact is still a hit box XD I tried running past after the rocks impact/hitbox itself and died
Ancient Dragon downward fire breath is one of the most unfair hitboxes in a game. He flies up, you often can’t tell where the epicentre of the attack will land so you know what to run away from, and it lingers so long it can stunlock you if you’re unlucky. What a joke.
DS1 and DS3: "We shall create the illusion of moving flames with a swarm of small spherical hitboxes moving in a believable way!" DS2: *"B I G C Y L I N D E R"*
@@glorytoukraine5524 To be fair, I posted it immediately after seeing the DS2 Ancient Dragon's hitboxes, then immediately saw King of the Storm's cylinders like 30 seconds later lol
The issue was that I had temporal anti aliasing enabled. The hitboxes look a bit better in the third Mauler response video where I filmed Kalameet again
After only having known Dragons from games like Skyrim where they are just glorified damage sponges something like Kalameet or Sinh were mind-blowing as they fought like I would have imagined Dragons to fight.
Absolutely disagree. I love fighting dragons in these games so much. They are the most well done dragons I've seen in any game. Ds3's ancient wyvern was pretty disappointing tho. Er dragons and Midir are great
The hitbox extending with the fire and the stomp shockwave hitbox extending with the dust is pretty well done compared to DS3 where it's just maximum size from the start.
Man played 5 minutes of Elden Ring and thinks he's got 10K hours experience in everything enough to call DS2 bad. Like literally everyone else with a concave skull does.
@@irpanfauzi1160 Reminds me of people who call Elden Ring unfair and unfun because they couldn't be bothered to learn enemy moves and when they can punish them. I haven't played ds2 but it's probably still very good
@@minecraftgravityguy can you name some specific bad hitboxes in DS2? Don't forget that I can visualize hitboxes in FromSoft games and already have produced plenty of videos debunking most that are commonly falsely accused of being broken, and showed lots of actually broken hitboxes in DS1 and DS3 that the community just ignores in favor of falsely accusing DS2 of having the worst hitboxes. In reality DS2 haters simply don't understand what hitboxes even are or that the legs are part of the character model, as almost every video that tries to show how broken the hitboxes in DS2 are clearly shows them getting hit straight through their legs towards the end of a low agility roll.
They really can't decide if they prefer "swarm of moving hitboxes" or "a few expanding big hitboxes", huh. It doesn't even seem to be a game-dependent thing
And they also can't agree if they should expand in discrete steps (Kalameet and then Storm King) or continuously (Ancient Dragon).
And now that I've watched it again I noticed that the Storm King Downward Fire Breath at 3:33 is the only one that wasn't recorded at 0.25 speed. Picked the wrong clip for that.
I think that just depends on what each particular fire effect is for. Like for example if it's evenly spreading against the ground an expanding hitbox works just fine. Versus a narrow jet of flame where it has to be more precise.
Multiple hitboxes also mean you'll be damaged faster for standing in the flames.
I'd imagine the "swarm" style is better for the more moving around/stays around for a while. Kalameet I think best exemplifies that, the fire stays around for a while after he's done breathing in that zone making the danger zone kinda stick around in a more natural way. While in ds2 Ancient dragon just kinda spews a big stick of no go zone, cause he just kinda covers a thin angle of the arena, so the hit boxes don't have to be as precise. Like, you aren't going to kinda follow through the flames to attack ancient dragon's head, while you might want sort of follow kalameet's head to attack him.
I think it depends on how they want the player to deal with the attack
If it's swarming hitboxes like elden ring dragons they want the player to run around the fire / run away
If it's one big hitboxes they expect the player to be able I frame through it which isn't the case with elden ring
Personally I like big hitboxes more because it's more consistent and encourages a more aggressive play style and not always disengage the second fire appear, also because elden ring fire hitboxes are bull*hit and random
What I think is insane about this channel is that even in videos where you show COMPARISONS, no opinions or bias, people will STILL come out of the woodworks just to insult one game or the other it's insane.
You're doing good work all around tho this shit is really interesting.
Note that not all of those hitboxes do damage. Like at 4:30 there's a huge one around Ancient Dragon that merely staggers (or actually plays the weak knee animation and slows you down). Same at 5:03
Doesnt matter watch the ds2 haters picking the clip and sharing it all are damaging hitboxes
so thats why kalameet is so janky... they put the ENTIRE DEV TEAM ON HIS FLAME HITBOXES....
Fire bouncing in DS3 and ER was just about the worst decision they could have made
DS3 was annoying but very rare and mostly fair. Elden Ring Fire bouncing is just a complete joke.
@@minecraftgravityguy Gravetender Wolf and Ancient Wyvern were kinda bad, but I agree it wasn’t nearly as prevalent as it is in ER. Nearly impossible to fight a dragon without it happening at least once in that game
Maybe to realistically spread fire
@@Maximus20778 I’m pretty sure fire doesnt ricochet off of tree stumps when it runs into it.
Kalameet with the cleanest fire hitboxes. Such a shame the boss is programmed like a dingus otherwise. Also where Sinh?
Sinh Forward Fire Breath is same as Ancient Dragon. His Stomp Shockwave also expands with the dust animation like it does for Ancient Dragon. His poison cloud hitbox expands slowly with the poison fog.
Sinh is infinitely worse than Kalameet, constantly flying around making you chase him, leaving his annoying ass area denial fart gas like some kinda MOBA character and making you lose extra durability on every hit.
Hes not even hard hes just tedious AF. Easily the most overrated dragon fight. Kalameet atleast has the decency to stay within melee range for the majority of the fight.
@@sasaki999pro
Sinh has a tendency to stay airborne more often in you cut off his tail.
I personally prefer Sinh's fight over Kalameet.
@@sasaki999pro 1. That decency is solely because of Gough.
2. All Kalameet's finesse gets thrown out the window once you try cutting his tail and you see him glide-rotate after you
@@ecchi4196
RE: 1. I fail to see how an external narrative element has any bearing on the boss fight on a mechanical level. there are just as many gimmicks in DS2 that are borderline mandatory just to make the boss fights even remotely reasonable, like gathering the Loyce Knights for the Ivory King, Shutting off the ashen Idols to Fume Knight, draining the poison from Mythas boss arena.
RE: 2. Going for Sinhs tail is just as asinine if not more.
Still doesn't invalidate any of the grievances I listed.
kalameet's hitbox is probably the coolest hitbox i've seen in any game
"These spheres and tubes are so much cooler than the other spheres and tubes"
@@glorytoukraine5524🫵 what not seeing cool spheres does to a mf
@@hombojimbo how do you manage to dick ride a sphere 😭
@@glorytoukraine5524 0:54
i feel like some of these attacks really should of used lines / tracers instead. especially for the fast sweeping attacks.
like instead of throwing a bunch of invisible balls, all of which do massive damage if you accidentally walk into it. shower a bunch of tracers, and how many tracers you accumulate determines the damage (and applies burn). plus, easier to calculate the time / distance that way too for damage falloff. and, it'd could allow the shield to be useful to absorb the tracers, resulting in the classic 'shield blocking dragon fire' imagery.
but i like the multi-staging or growing hitbox best for the big huge telegraphed attacks atleast, as shown in ds2 ancient dragon.
Mohgs Bloodflame is the perfect example.
Souls games should really move away from the philosophy of the player needing to dodge every single attack, as opposed to mitigating as much as possible. At least with ER its starting to happen.
what are even line/tracer hitboxes? what do they look like?
@@yoman5029 basically, just hitscan tracers. think of the dragon shooting a machine gun essentially.
@@shinyhydreigon7257 Yeah, that's a great example. Quick ranged attacks really should primarily do status effect absorption in general.
Really, the souls formula needs an overhaul to make damage Mitigation be common place, rather than damage Avoidance. Making status ailments be more indepth, having different effects depending on how much you have. And having more physical states depending on certain factors.
But ofc, I have Immersive Sim bias. And it's why I always respect DS2 for attempting to inject in more of those aspects (poison liquid accumulation being a physical attribute, so if you dont roll you'll have slower poison rate)... and it's always sad they didn't build off it more.
no midir? really wanted to see his hitboxes
Amir. has a video showing all of Midir hitboxes
His hitboxes can go eat some pestilent mist 😅
I can confidently say I hate trying to figure out where the safe zone is for dragons fire breath in any of them lol
Everytime "please do a melee attack" 😅😅😅
Very cool
thank you
i know is not a dragon but i wish i could see the hitbox of the ulcerated tree spirits flamethrower attack, i feel like i have been hit by it way too manny times in unexplicable spots, like im right practically hugging it and from no where i get hit by plain air.
How do you enable hitboxes in the debug menu for DSR, i cant find it
Damage Management
@@Domo3000 ty 🙏
I hate the bridge Drake in DS1, because the straight downward fire one shots you unless you have like 30 vigor and good fire gear despite it being an early area and the other fire breaths doing like less than half as much damage.
Turn off Temporal Anti-Aliasing on Dark Souls Remastered.
Thanks! I'll try that for the next videos
In Demon Souls ps3, I know the dudes chucking rocks down at you on the start of Stonefang Tunnel...the dust from the rocks impact is still a hit box XD
I tried running past after the rocks impact/hitbox itself and died
whrer is Midir?
There is already a good Midir Hitbox video on TH-cam made by Amir.
Ancient Dragon downward fire breath is one of the most unfair hitboxes in a game. He flies up, you often can’t tell where the epicentre of the attack will land so you know what to run away from, and it lingers so long it can stunlock you if you’re unlucky. What a joke.
DS1 and DS3:
"We shall create the illusion of moving flames with a swarm of small spherical hitboxes moving in a believable way!"
DS2:
*"B I G C Y L I N D E R"*
Ds3 has big cylinders too, what are you talking about
@@glorytoukraine5524
To be fair, I posted it immediately after seeing the DS2 Ancient Dragon's hitboxes, then immediately saw King of the Storm's cylinders like 30 seconds later lol
Dude is playing prepare to doe edition. You must not like your pc 😂
DSR hitbox shader looks like shit wtf
The issue was that I had temporal anti aliasing enabled. The hitboxes look a bit better in the third Mauler response video where I filmed Kalameet again
All dragon boss fights suck change my mind.
After only having known Dragons from games like Skyrim where they are just glorified damage sponges something like Kalameet or Sinh were mind-blowing as they fought like I would have imagined Dragons to fight.
@@Domo3000 true, Skyrim dragons suck lol
What makes them suck to you?
Completely disagree, they're fucking awesome
Absolutely disagree. I love fighting dragons in these games so much. They are the most well done dragons I've seen in any game. Ds3's ancient wyvern was pretty disappointing tho. Er dragons and Midir are great
thanks for showing how bad ds2 hitboxes are
Thanks for showing that DS2 haters will accuse hitboxes in DS2 of being bad even when they aren't
Dark Souls 2 is not even trying
The hitbox extending with the fire and the stomp shockwave hitbox extending with the dust is pretty well done compared to DS3 where it's just maximum size from the start.
Are we watching the same video?????
@@chizu.iscold it's out of sync and out of scale. The straight fire breath is downright funny.
To be fair, the fanning breath in Elden Ring is also bad, cause despite spawning hitboxes with projectiles, they don't match visually by the end.
@@StainlessPotthat’s definitely the main issue I don’t know why fromsoft refuses to make the particle effects match the hit boxes
DS2 defender, yikes
Defend an actually good game instead of that slob
Go troll somewhere else. No one cares about the opinion of people that unironically think that DS2 is a bad game.
Man played 5 minutes of Elden Ring and thinks he's got 10K hours experience in everything enough to call DS2 bad.
Like literally everyone else with a concave skull does.
Ah yes The Guy Explain Why DS2 is Not Bad Game with Research and Data
and How mr Vergil Explain DS2 its a Slob? "Trust Me Bro"
@@irpanfauzi1160 Reminds me of people who call Elden Ring unfair and unfun because they couldn't be bothered to learn enemy moves and when they can punish them. I haven't played ds2 but it's probably still very good
@@minecraftgravityguy can you name some specific bad hitboxes in DS2?
Don't forget that I can visualize hitboxes in FromSoft games and already have produced plenty of videos debunking most that are commonly falsely accused of being broken, and showed lots of actually broken hitboxes in DS1 and DS3 that the community just ignores in favor of falsely accusing DS2 of having the worst hitboxes.
In reality DS2 haters simply don't understand what hitboxes even are or that the legs are part of the character model, as almost every video that tries to show how broken the hitboxes in DS2 are clearly shows them getting hit straight through their legs towards the end of a low agility roll.
I think we can all agree that elden ring fire breath is consistently bs