I think the "devil's advocate" should be wearing devil horns or something so people can't clip things out of context. Maybe a banner to put on screen and a timer as Dan said. Definitely worth keeping the segment around.
Luke tried his best to legitimately argue it and did a better job. Meanwhile, Linus became the embodiment of Samsung with all of their awful arguments. It was scary
As someone into gamedesign, I actually found myself agreeing with Luke, because diversity of user options is not always good or desirable. Not saying it will absolutely make Twitter better, but having a designed and curated experience can be superior if executed properly.
Yeah Luke clearly won that one. Honestly first time Linus' smug "that's a cute argument" attitude got on my nerves. Does he have a hate boner for Musk or something?
Evidently needs some refinement so that everyone can get their points out, but I enjoyed this new segment. The banter between Luke and Linus is a big part of why I keep watching the WAN show, so I'm all for adding in some new fun bits interspersed between tech news and merch messages.
Love this segment! IMHO you should make the devil's advocate wear devil horns to make things more visually clear / dissuade people from taking clips out of context :)
Playing devil's advocate is super fun because your "defense" usually makes the company/argument look terrible. You should 100% keep this segment, it gives us a window into a universe where Luke and Linus are capitalist sociopaths. We had to argue for our opposing political ideology in a debate class so I ran with it and focused on "anchor babies" the entire time (it was the latest conservative insanity at the time). The conservative professor was _not_ amused, but I got an A lol
My favorite one from the other side of the isle is demanding EV’s when we don’t have enough supply of lithium in the US. So in the spirit of reducing environmental damage, they’re now having to argue in court to mine out a sacred Native American land in Thacker Pass.
@@TechnoGeek18023 Do you mind elaborating on this or pointing me in the direction I can find more about this? Ive come to believe its a unique mix of fear greed and self righteousness but would love actual details.
The _/10 ratings should be based off of how mad you make the other participants and how much you play into the evil characters. And you need a "Defend the Indefensible" sign that hangs during the segment or pops up digitally 😂
I like this a lot. I'm always playing devil's advocate because it's just part of critical thinking in general. 'What are the reason I could be wrong?' Nobody ever seems to want to do that or even listen to the other side
I believe one of Twitters argument, and a big one, was that of monetization and ad revenue. Those APIs can display twitter content but not the Ads and therefore Twitter was not making money. This is pulling all those third-party eyeballs back to Twitter so that they can monetize them. Not how I would have done it, but I think that's the biggest reason.
I think Casey hit what is likely the reason for this change, which is control mainly on user experience. I'd also argue from their point of view, having absolute control around how their API is consumed will allow them to make optimizations for cost and experience that would go against the standards for open APIs
Luke's defense of Twitter isn't as bad as Linus made it sound. He is right that Twitter is changing and so keeping 3rd party apps down isn't bad for now. Linus did end up misrepresenting Luke's argument a bit too.
I dont have the attention span to watch the full WAN show, but i do enjoy watching segments here on LMG Clips very much. And this one was very entertaining to watch, i really hope we will see this again.
It's wild listening to this *in* Wyoming and just hearing your state out of context in a soft Canadian accent. That said it would basically just boil down to "Oh no! I guess I have to buy my cars in Colorado now!" which to be fair is also how a good chunk of people do here anyways because we have sales tax.
Yeah that would be very bad, which is why some sign or devil horns as someone mentioned, on the advocate would be nice lol Seeing these 2 get genuinely kinda mad at each other over it is entertaining
Honestly, Luke's defense was solid. Like 9/10 solid. I also really don't get the problem. Twitter doesn't want third party apps... Isn't that just their choice? Like, anything really, can say that. "We don't want third party apps of our app/service."... That seems entirely reasonable to me. Especially if those third party apps are literally taking money away from you (By not displaying ads).
An actual devils advocate position for twitter: Twitter has operated at a loss its entire history and the goal of the new regime is to make it profitable. This includes advertising and prioritising posts, both of which third party apps circumvent, undercutting the profit from these changes. Im not saying they went about cutting it off in the best way, a smoother transition would have been vetter for everyone, but the business model has to change if twitter is to improve in the long term. Notably, this is also why YT also prevents third party apps, they can monetise advertising, paid ad-removal even features like background play (one of the most common in third-parties).
My real position: YT have gone far further with this and still can't turn a profit. Instead, i think twitter should do the opposite. Build out mastodon compatibility, becoming the biggest node overnight for a tonne of free advertising, as well as playing to the "free speech absolutist" position. However, whitelist incoming content by channel and node, providing a more curated experience that avoids the more unsavoury content. This makes twitter the "SFW" option for professionals such as brand identites and reporters, perhaps even younger users. Promoted content could still be used, but only to the twitter audience, perhaps opting out of fediverse distribution is an option for paid accounts. Promoted posts could have special "call to action" buttons a la FB pages.
I love "debate club" competitions as an intellectual exercise. It really helps you settle on good arguments. If you do this again, I'd like to suggest the addition of a "Devil's Advocate" hat so people don't misconstrue the clips out of context.
I like how they get fired up but they both are the type of people who seem to be able to keep their real friendship and understanding of each-other separate from the "fake" arguing lol
I don't know if you read these but I gotta say this segment is great and you should consider doing it more. It's a fun way to dissect events in a more thorough, and joyfully combative way.
luke is dangerously good at making an argument, I was believing him for the twitter stuff until 4-5 minutes in when linus started pokling holes in his argument
Twitter argument should be is making the api more strict to reduce bots and spams. Using their app will allow to go gather more user data for advertising. And twitter is working on features that companies like hootsuit offered so they can get those profit as well.
If companies find themselves in a situation in which the customer can not purchase 3rd party parts due to a patent violation, then the company should be obliged to provide said part at cost + 20%. So in the case of Samsung displays selling OLEDs to Samsung electronics for phones, then the customer should be able to purchase at that cost +20%. This ensures the patent isn't violated, that the customer can get an original part without profiteering, and indeed if anyone wanted to try and build their own phone entirely from parts, it would cost at least 20% more than simply buying the device. This will encourage proper use of the patent system, rather than abusing it to force even more money out of a customer who has already purchased that patented component in the first place.
If Linus was using floatplane & the lab to present product comparisons in a new way while also figuring out how to monetize it so that Linus can continue to provide this product comparison service far into the future - He also wouldn't want people ripping off his comparison videos & monetizing their own version of his work (along with not updating their third party app with the features that he is adding to the Lab) Luke would also clearly bring up the fact that "LINUS - WE NEED TO MAKE MoNEyEYY" If looked at closer - Linus is being hypocritical in this argument against twitter...
Well, the whole idea of Twitter, why it was adopted over other microblogging sites, was that it was a completely open website. The api’s were open, and people could do fun and interesting intergrations with data on Twitter. This open policy had costs to Twitter, but that was the cost they paid for relevance. After 2016 Cambridge Analytica, many websites began pulling back control of their API’s. Twitter’s approach was to not add certain features to their API, like polls or group DMs. Twitter, as it has gotten older, has tried to capture more of the ecosystem which it created, which relies on its servers yes, but which only grew because of their open policy towards the API. Nobody criticizes Facebook for having a closed down API, which is mostly because they got hit extremely hard by Cambridge Analytica. But the big difference is that Facebook posts are meant to be semi-private, but Twitter was meant to be an open platform which anyone could interact with. Twitter is within its rights to close their platform, but ultimately (along with many other things they have done) kills what made Twitter unique.
As someone who works at UbreakIfix, the authorized repair centers for almost all of the US, most non OEM Samsung parts are awful. There's plenty of places that make quality aftermarket parts for Apple products, but for some reason that just hasn't happened with Samsung yet, also the screen is essentially part of the frame on Samsung devices, and repairing them without the frame is less cost effective from the perspective of labor costs. All in all I'm very pro right to repair, and would love to see quality aftermarket Samsung parts and more 3rd party, and affordable repairs
Iirc (from Louis's piece about this), the issue is mainly aftermarket parts which don't violate any patents because they are still manufactured by Samsung. And from the issue of labeling all popular sources for aftermarket parts clearly label these parts as such.
Please don't hard pan the voices of each host to either end. I know it's what "professional podcasts" do but it's genuinely painful to listen to. I hate having to dig through my settings to turn mono audio on for just one video due to an awful mixing decision.
Linus is really bad at debating. Luke seemed to do a bit better. Linus was way to confident and assertive in statements he has no reason to be so confident and assertive in.
I had to upgrade my perfectly functional s10 because I could no longer buy a screen for it online. I have disliked every phone I've had since, more and more. I miss when the fingerprint sensor was on the back of the phone. I also miss the notification led old androids had.
If you told me luke and Pete Davidson were like cousins or something I’d believe it. Both obviously smart but can be the best chads when needed or going along with things. Love it
I really like this segment. Regarding the Samsung bit, specifically the argument of whether it's worth repairing a phone over buying a new one, i'll say i'm going to be keeping my Galaxy S9+ around for a while to come still. Opening apps and what not may not be as snappy as it would be on a brand new flagship Samsung, but it's definitely not slow, and additionally, this phone has Samsungs pressure sensitive home button on the screen, which i use quite a lot. It also has an actual headphone jack, which i'm happy about, because i prefer wired headphones and earbuds over wireless ones. It maybe could do with a new battery, but that wouldn't be a problem since it wouldn't be the first time i replaced the battery on one of these phones, Overall still a great phone, great enough for my use case that buying a new phone would be more of a hassle than anything aside from the fun that is trying out new tech.
right at the 26:00 mark, Linus says that theyre not going to break down completed assemblies into their individual componets... but isnt that basically what Framework is doing with its "diy" laptops? He showed in the LTT video that they fully assemle and test the laptop, and then break it down, just for the end user to reassemble all over again. lol
The best patent argument would be something like "if you think the patent is a bad one, you should take that up with the patent office. As long as we have the patent, we need to defend it."
Try to be less cynical in your advocacy. For instance, pointing out that Twitter was the only major social media platform to allow third party apps and they are within their rights to shut them out without notice is simply stating the facts and can be done without snark. Part of being a devil's advocate is you have to be willing to believe your own argument. It forces you to see their point of view.
13:45 if a company is fighting for their survival by making their service worse hurting their partners and their users maybe they should go out of business
I love this section of the show. Two people relatively unpreped to defend an argument they likely oppose. It sounds like a Twitter agument without devolving into insulting each other's moms.
On the RTR bit: Due to matters of logistics, storage, economy of scale in manufacturing and tooling, it is possible that base component will cost no less than the completed assembly, possibly even more by the time it reaches the repair shop/centers. Note that it is only fair for the additional cost of difference in manufacturing and tooling be assigned to this new class of products that we would not otherwise had to make. It is also lower in volume, which means this additional fixed cost will be distributed heavily, thus bringing up the cost significantly. As such, realistically they would provide at most what they already have in storage for their own repair processes--which are assemblies, nothing more granular. Given that, the cost of repair for independent repair shops cannot possibly be lower than manufacture offered repair if they were to use genuine parts. This incentivizes the repair shop to use knock-offs for either profit and/or price advantage. The availability of genuine parts will enable them to lie and claim that it is genuine parts, as that is now possible. In this case, there is absolutely no benefit, only harm to consumers, in providing the option to provide parts to repair shop. At best, it would not save consumers money. At worst, the consumers gets scammed. As such, we stand by our current practice: all repair shop are performing repairs without our authorization and are doing so with either knock off or salvaged parts. We won't go after them as long as they don't make false claims about the type of parts they are using, but know that is what you are getting, an inferior product. Note: to be clear, I am for right to repair. I don't actually think the assembly vs component cost part is true, which the entirety of the above depend on. However, good luck *proving* it false given that part of the statement *is* true, there are additional cost with producing, transiting and storing additional SKU of products (and the components will be essentially a different SKU of the assembly). I just don't think it necessarily reach the point where the component will always be more expensive. It might be in a few cases, but almost certainly not in all cases. But again, good luck proving it to be false in any particular case.
This was great. The arguments in favor of the companies are fair enough, it just doesn't feel like the right thing to do. It doesn't feel like the consumer's best interests are in mind. Linus nailed it when he said that Twitter's third-party clients do not display ads, so they are missing a chunk of revenue from that user base. A similar story regarding money with Samsung. They have the money, logistics, manpower, and everything needed to keep all parts in stock. Hell, I think they either have data on how many of these old devices are floating around or at the very least they can figure out a way to know and keep parts in stock based on that data. But it costs money, and everything is about maximizing profits.
Showcasing the strong defense of controversial topics help really show that you guys understand the complex topics that some may think yall are biased on. Everyone has opinions, but being able to speak to both sides is what will help us win these wars!!
I would say for refinement of this, A) Some kind of indicator as to who is the advocate, for clarity and clips out of context. B) have two equal timers, the advocate makes their point, then passes to the plaintiff to rebuttable. Maybe work on a chess based system of passing back and forth, but both sides get equal time, or maybe give the advocate 1.5x the plaintiff due to them making the case. C) If you're going to do scores out of 10, maybe have multiple people act as judges, like 2 or 3.
Also for Linus RPing as Samsung, personally I don't think it fits the game. You're the Devil's _Advocate_ , not the Devil. Defend them as you, what do you as one of the consumers think the company is right in doing, not what do you think the company would say as their PR dept.
I've always loved playing devil's advocate, it's a great way to further disprove an unpopular stance and out those that can't take a joke or have an adult conversation
I dont think i have ever laughed out loud so hard from the WAN show before. Luke trying to defend Twitter banning 3rd party apps. Luke was awesome at this segment. Please keep doing these in the future. Loved it!
Honestly, I'll tune in for any segment that you can find a way to highlight Dan's off the cuff reactions. Dude is seriously engaging. Besides the great comments about timer/speaking batons etc. def find a way to bring him into the argument stages. Ill bet he can out debate most anyone on staff.
I think the "devil's advocate" should be wearing devil horns or something so people can't clip things out of context. Maybe a banner to put on screen and a timer as Dan said. Definitely worth keeping the segment around.
That's a great point
I'm looking forward to seeing all the out of context clips going around in the future 🤣
Good Idea, I think having the wheel on the table like they have during the samsung argument is also good
This times a billion.
I was thinking the same the entire time! People will use it against them
That's one heck of a concept, ruining decades of friendship between Luke and LInus within half an hour.
@srijita_6_9 stop your spam pls (╯‵□′)╯︵┻━┻
@srijitia 🥺 you should turn it on and off again
I like it 😂
Luke is the only one who could possibly get away with doing that with Linus.
@@jeremykothe2847
Linus is the boss, but Luke could kill him by sitting on him, so I guess the power level is ultimately balanced.
Luke tried his best to legitimately argue it and did a better job. Meanwhile, Linus became the embodiment of Samsung with all of their awful arguments. It was scary
I had to remind myself he wasn't Samsung PR at some points 😂
As someone into gamedesign, I actually found myself agreeing with Luke, because diversity of user options is not always good or desirable.
Not saying it will absolutely make Twitter better, but having a designed and curated experience can be superior if executed properly.
I couldn't listen to it because it was too much like apple's policy
Yeah Luke clearly won that one. Honestly first time Linus' smug "that's a cute argument" attitude got on my nerves. Does he have a hate boner for Musk or something?
Evidently needs some refinement so that everyone can get their points out, but I enjoyed this new segment. The banter between Luke and Linus is a big part of why I keep watching the WAN show, so I'm all for adding in some new fun bits interspersed between tech news and merch messages.
Ya not letting each other make their arguments was not fun to watch. Great concept though.
They need a chess clock to prevent them bulldozing the other person and going on too long
Smart
This is a great idea. They would be fighting over the clock trying to create counter arguments around each other
When I was in speech and debate we did this thing called SPAR and it's like 30 sec prep 1 min opening 2 minutes each like 2-3 times then 1 min close
Good idea, hope Linus sees this
I'd take a whole show of just playing devil's advocate. That was some funny stuff!
Same, this is the best LTT content this year
I love evil corporate Linus, he really does sound like a company when he's playing devils advocate
Love this segment! IMHO you should make the devil's advocate wear devil horns to make things more visually clear / dissuade people from taking clips out of context :)
@srijitia 🥺 put water on it, usually works
That would be a great idea.
Playing devil's advocate is super fun because your "defense" usually makes the company/argument look terrible. You should 100% keep this segment, it gives us a window into a universe where Luke and Linus are capitalist sociopaths.
We had to argue for our opposing political ideology in a debate class so I ran with it and focused on "anchor babies" the entire time (it was the latest conservative insanity at the time). The conservative professor was _not_ amused, but I got an A lol
My favorite one from the other side of the isle is demanding EV’s when we don’t have enough supply of lithium in the US. So in the spirit of reducing environmental damage, they’re now having to argue in court to mine out a sacred Native American land in Thacker Pass.
@@TechnoGeek18023 Do you mind elaborating on this or pointing me in the direction I can find more about this? Ive come to believe its a unique mix of fear greed and self righteousness but would love actual details.
The _/10 ratings should be based off of how mad you make the other participants and how much you play into the evil characters. And you need a "Defend the Indefensible" sign that hangs during the segment or pops up digitally 😂
I like this a lot. I'm always playing devil's advocate because it's just part of critical thinking in general. 'What are the reason I could be wrong?' Nobody ever seems to want to do that or even listen to the other side
I believe one of Twitters argument, and a big one, was that of monetization and ad revenue. Those APIs can display twitter content but not the Ads and therefore Twitter was not making money. This is pulling all those third-party eyeballs back to Twitter so that they can monetize them. Not how I would have done it, but I think that's the biggest reason.
Don't they get money for using the API?
@@HentaiNat no
@@HentaiNat even so, advertisers won't be happy to know some users don't even receive the ads that they paid for
Another thing is "probably" thay want to include those 3rd party API feature directly into their tweeter blue subscription
I think Casey hit what is likely the reason for this change, which is control mainly on user experience.
I'd also argue from their point of view, having absolute control around how their API is consumed will allow them to make optimizations for cost and experience that would go against the standards for open APIs
23:57
-Would ypu let me finish?
-No
That exchange of words on that tone was the single most based thing i have ever seen. Long live Luke
the way Linus attacked Luke about twitter was as if Luke owned twitter and Linus was the only user of twitter and the changes would ruin his life
Luke's defense of Twitter isn't as bad as Linus made it sound. He is right that Twitter is changing and so keeping 3rd party apps down isn't bad for now. Linus did end up misrepresenting Luke's argument a bit too.
According to musk it’s also to combat bots and scammers. Don’t know how much truth to there is to that.
I dont have the attention span to watch the full WAN show, but i do enjoy watching segments here on LMG Clips very much. And this one was very entertaining to watch, i really hope we will see this again.
Gotta get that attention span up friend!
It's wild listening to this *in* Wyoming and just hearing your state out of context in a soft Canadian accent.
That said it would basically just boil down to "Oh no! I guess I have to buy my cars in Colorado now!" which to be fair is also how a good chunk of people do here anyways because we have sales tax.
This segment is great. No matter how black and white some of these items seem (or are), I think attempting to hit both sides of an issue is important.
Y'all gave Luke an impossible task and he fully committed. Kudos.
Please do more of this.
Not only is this VERY entertaining, but it might bring more discussions by arguing non-popular sides of an issue.
This was amazing! More devils advocate please! I hope people dont take this out of context though
Yeah that would be very bad, which is why some sign or devil horns as someone mentioned, on the advocate would be nice lol
Seeing these 2 get genuinely kinda mad at each other over it is entertaining
Honestly, Luke's defense was solid. Like 9/10 solid. I also really don't get the problem. Twitter doesn't want third party apps... Isn't that just their choice? Like, anything really, can say that. "We don't want third party apps of our app/service."... That seems entirely reasonable to me. Especially if those third party apps are literally taking money away from you (By not displaying ads).
Please make this a recurring thing. It's interesting to hear the arguments and also kind of amusing to watch The Strain on your friendship
More than 20 years ago, I used to play this game with my friends. It's a good way to break friendships, and make people mad.
An actual devils advocate position for twitter:
Twitter has operated at a loss its entire history and the goal of the new regime is to make it profitable. This includes advertising and prioritising posts, both of which third party apps circumvent, undercutting the profit from these changes.
Im not saying they went about cutting it off in the best way, a smoother transition would have been vetter for everyone, but the business model has to change if twitter is to improve in the long term.
Notably, this is also why YT also prevents third party apps, they can monetise advertising, paid ad-removal even features like background play (one of the most common in third-parties).
My real position:
YT have gone far further with this and still can't turn a profit. Instead, i think twitter should do the opposite. Build out mastodon compatibility, becoming the biggest node overnight for a tonne of free advertising, as well as playing to the "free speech absolutist" position.
However, whitelist incoming content by channel and node, providing a more curated experience that avoids the more unsavoury content. This makes twitter the "SFW" option for professionals such as brand identites and reporters, perhaps even younger users.
Promoted content could still be used, but only to the twitter audience, perhaps opting out of fediverse distribution is an option for paid accounts. Promoted posts could have special "call to action" buttons a la FB pages.
I love "debate club" competitions as an intellectual exercise. It really helps you settle on good arguments.
If you do this again, I'd like to suggest the addition of a "Devil's Advocate" hat so people don't misconstrue the clips out of context.
I like how they get fired up but they both are the type of people who seem to be able to keep their real friendship and understanding of each-other separate from the "fake" arguing lol
Guys, this is one the best segments you have ever done please keep it up!
This was a great edition to the show. Keep it going
I love how Linus isn't just defending Samsung, but is doing that in the tone that he is Samsung. A good move to try explain his point.
I don't know if you read these but I gotta say this segment is great and you should consider doing it more. It's a fun way to dissect events in a more thorough, and joyfully combative way.
More of this! One of the bigger issues in WAN was you two being so agreeing and on the same page lmao
Linus vs Luke debates would be a great addition to the WAN Show.
luke is dangerously good at making an argument, I was believing him for the twitter stuff until 4-5 minutes in when linus started pokling holes in his argument
him and his honeyed words..
I actually really like the segment! Do more of it please!
Luke really got given the worst possible one the first time around. lol
Twitter argument should be is making the api more strict to reduce bots and spams. Using their app will allow to go gather more user data for advertising. And twitter is working on features that companies like hootsuit offered so they can get those profit as well.
Thanks, I watched the whole show and thought this was a nice concept.
When Linus said "Are you gonna let me finish?" I could just FEEL the shut the F up Luke XD
Timed responses are baby-tier. The back and forth is what makes a conversation fun to listen to.
If companies find themselves in a situation in which the customer can not purchase 3rd party parts due to a patent violation, then the company should be obliged to provide said part at cost + 20%. So in the case of Samsung displays selling OLEDs to Samsung electronics for phones, then the customer should be able to purchase at that cost +20%.
This ensures the patent isn't violated, that the customer can get an original part without profiteering, and indeed if anyone wanted to try and build their own phone entirely from parts, it would cost at least 20% more than simply buying the device.
This will encourage proper use of the patent system, rather than abusing it to force even more money out of a customer who has already purchased that patented component in the first place.
Excellent. More of this please! It might be neat if you prepped for all the options before hand.
Amazing! Dan's anger at the end is just perfect!
This could be fun, but I feel like the topics should go beyond "Clearly anti-consumer move, made by greed, but legally within their rights".
If Linus was using floatplane & the lab to present product comparisons in a new way while also figuring out how to monetize it so that Linus can continue to provide this product comparison service far into the future -
He also wouldn't want people ripping off his comparison videos & monetizing their own version of his work (along with not updating their third party app with the features that he is adding to the Lab)
Luke would also clearly bring up the fact that
"LINUS - WE NEED TO MAKE MoNEyEYY"
If looked at closer - Linus is being hypocritical in this argument against twitter...
Well, the whole idea of Twitter, why it was adopted over other microblogging sites, was that it was a completely open website. The api’s were open, and people could do fun and interesting intergrations with data on Twitter. This open policy had costs to Twitter, but that was the cost they paid for relevance. After 2016 Cambridge Analytica, many websites began pulling back control of their API’s. Twitter’s approach was to not add certain features to their API, like polls or group DMs. Twitter, as it has gotten older, has tried to capture more of the ecosystem which it created, which relies on its servers yes, but which only grew because of their open policy towards the API. Nobody criticizes Facebook for having a closed down API, which is mostly because they got hit extremely hard by Cambridge Analytica. But the big difference is that Facebook posts are meant to be semi-private, but Twitter was meant to be an open platform which anyone could interact with. Twitter is within its rights to close their platform, but ultimately (along with many other things they have done) kills what made Twitter unique.
That was a great segment. I hope they do it again.
As someone who works at UbreakIfix, the authorized repair centers for almost all of the US, most non OEM Samsung parts are awful. There's plenty of places that make quality aftermarket parts for Apple products, but for some reason that just hasn't happened with Samsung yet, also the screen is essentially part of the frame on Samsung devices, and repairing them without the frame is less cost effective from the perspective of labor costs. All in all I'm very pro right to repair, and would love to see quality aftermarket Samsung parts and more 3rd party, and affordable repairs
Iirc (from Louis's piece about this), the issue is mainly aftermarket parts which don't violate any patents because they are still manufactured by Samsung. And from the issue of labeling all popular sources for aftermarket parts clearly label these parts as such.
Very good segment. All the thoughts of how to improve it are all great as well. Would love to see more of this
This new segment really shines on Luke and shows how essential he is as a differing opinion to Linus. I enjoyed the back and forth very much.
Seeing Luke's arguement evolve as he thought more about it was actually really cool, just from a pure arguement perspective.
Please don't hard pan the voices of each host to either end. I know it's what "professional podcasts" do but it's genuinely painful to listen to. I hate having to dig through my settings to turn mono audio on for just one video due to an awful mixing decision.
Linus is really bad at debating. Luke seemed to do a bit better. Linus was way to confident and assertive in statements he has no reason to be so confident and assertive in.
I had to upgrade my perfectly functional s10 because I could no longer buy a screen for it online. I have disliked every phone I've had since, more and more.
I miss when the fingerprint sensor was on the back of the phone. I also miss the notification led old androids had.
I really like this new segment. I think yall should keep doing it.
I like this kind of conversation between you two. Ironically old friends are at their best when debating.
Alt timeline where Luke had a child with Elon musk instead of grimes.
This reads like Luke got Elon pregnant
A decibel meter or heart rate monitor for the points sounds fun.
If you told me luke and Pete Davidson were like cousins or something I’d believe it. Both obviously smart but can be the best chads when needed or going along with things. Love it
The devils wheel could be a fun name for this segment
Compiling the biggest stinkers and playing devils advocate is such a good idea, really enjoying it so far
I really enjoyed this segment and hope you make it a regular segment.
I really like this segment. Regarding the Samsung bit, specifically the argument of whether it's worth repairing a phone over buying a new one, i'll say i'm going to be keeping my Galaxy S9+ around for a while to come still. Opening apps and what not may not be as snappy as it would be on a brand new flagship Samsung, but it's definitely not slow, and additionally, this phone has Samsungs pressure sensitive home button on the screen, which i use quite a lot. It also has an actual headphone jack, which i'm happy about, because i prefer wired headphones and earbuds over wireless ones. It maybe could do with a new battery, but that wouldn't be a problem since it wouldn't be the first time i replaced the battery on one of these phones, Overall still a great phone, great enough for my use case that buying a new phone would be more of a hassle than anything aside from the fun that is trying out new tech.
please keep this segment
right at the 26:00 mark, Linus says that theyre not going to break down completed assemblies into their individual componets... but isnt that basically what Framework is doing with its "diy" laptops? He showed in the LTT video that they fully assemle and test the laptop, and then break it down, just for the end user to reassemble all over again. lol
The best patent argument would be something like "if you think the patent is a bad one, you should take that up with the patent office. As long as we have the patent, we need to defend it."
Try to be less cynical in your advocacy. For instance, pointing out that Twitter was the only major social media platform to allow third party apps and they are within their rights to shut them out without notice is simply stating the facts and can be done without snark.
Part of being a devil's advocate is you have to be willing to believe your own argument. It forces you to see their point of view.
@@TechnoGeek18023 He said allow, not have.
TH-cam has never allowed them as far as I know and still there do exist some.
It's obvious they don't believe it all though. This has to be super hard cause you keep going against your own feelings.
13:45 if a company is fighting for their survival by making their service worse hurting their partners and their users maybe they should go out of business
Hot takes Linus has evolved into lava Linus
Cool segment, I hope they do more of this sometime
A chess clock would do wonders for this segment. Sets a time limit, one speaker at a time, with baton passing
i love this. i ask why questions all the time and i love getting into different perspectives.
this sounds like me and my brother arguing. I love it.
I give this segment a 10/10
Loved every second of it
Very entertaining
Please make this a dedicated playlist or even a podcast.
Need this again lol
Extra improvements for this segment I like. Give devil horns to the advocate. And call them devil Linus.
I feel like they should leave the wheel out during the segment so they don't get clipped out of context 😂
This segment is gold. We need more wheel of pain + defend the indefensible.
I love this section of the show. Two people relatively unpreped to defend an argument they likely oppose. It sounds like a Twitter agument without devolving into insulting each other's moms.
This is awesome. You should just do this as a separate show every week.
This is great, you can see the frustration it oozes of my screen.
"Ah. I'd like to have an argument, please."
This is why Dan drinks 🤣
You could make this a seasonal segment. Gives you guys time to rebuild your friendship during the off season ;)
On the RTR bit: Due to matters of logistics, storage, economy of scale in manufacturing and tooling, it is possible that base component will cost no less than the completed assembly, possibly even more by the time it reaches the repair shop/centers. Note that it is only fair for the additional cost of difference in manufacturing and tooling be assigned to this new class of products that we would not otherwise had to make. It is also lower in volume, which means this additional fixed cost will be distributed heavily, thus bringing up the cost significantly.
As such, realistically they would provide at most what they already have in storage for their own repair processes--which are assemblies, nothing more granular.
Given that, the cost of repair for independent repair shops cannot possibly be lower than manufacture offered repair if they were to use genuine parts. This incentivizes the repair shop to use knock-offs for either profit and/or price advantage. The availability of genuine parts will enable them to lie and claim that it is genuine parts, as that is now possible. In this case, there is absolutely no benefit, only harm to consumers, in providing the option to provide parts to repair shop. At best, it would not save consumers money. At worst, the consumers gets scammed.
As such, we stand by our current practice: all repair shop are performing repairs without our authorization and are doing so with either knock off or salvaged parts. We won't go after them as long as they don't make false claims about the type of parts they are using, but know that is what you are getting, an inferior product.
Note: to be clear, I am for right to repair. I don't actually think the assembly vs component cost part is true, which the entirety of the above depend on. However, good luck *proving* it false given that part of the statement *is* true, there are additional cost with producing, transiting and storing additional SKU of products (and the components will be essentially a different SKU of the assembly). I just don't think it necessarily reach the point where the component will always be more expensive. It might be in a few cases, but almost certainly not in all cases. But again, good luck proving it to be false in any particular case.
I loved it! Also you should totally put on capes, devil masks and the timer has to be on-screen all the time.
This was great. The arguments in favor of the companies are fair enough, it just doesn't feel like the right thing to do. It doesn't feel like the consumer's best interests are in mind. Linus nailed it when he said that Twitter's third-party clients do not display ads, so they are missing a chunk of revenue from that user base. A similar story regarding money with Samsung. They have the money, logistics, manpower, and everything needed to keep all parts in stock. Hell, I think they either have data on how many of these old devices are floating around or at the very least they can figure out a way to know and keep parts in stock based on that data. But it costs money, and everything is about maximizing profits.
This is a good seg as long you talk a little while about it after it ended to unreel the stress a bit. 6/9!
Showcasing the strong defense of controversial topics help really show that you guys understand the complex topics that some may think yall are biased on. Everyone has opinions, but being able to speak to both sides is what will help us win these wars!!
This should be its own channel. Just Luke and Linus trading turns being cooperate lobbyist.
I would say for refinement of this,
A) Some kind of indicator as to who is the advocate, for clarity and clips out of context.
B) have two equal timers, the advocate makes their point, then passes to the plaintiff to rebuttable. Maybe work on a chess based system of passing back and forth, but both sides get equal time, or maybe give the advocate 1.5x the plaintiff due to them making the case.
C) If you're going to do scores out of 10, maybe have multiple people act as judges, like 2 or 3.
Also for Linus RPing as Samsung, personally I don't think it fits the game. You're the Devil's _Advocate_ , not the Devil. Defend them as you, what do you as one of the consumers think the company is right in doing, not what do you think the company would say as their PR dept.
Great segment. Should be a staple of the wan show.
I've always loved playing devil's advocate, it's a great way to further disprove an unpopular stance and out those that can't take a joke or have an adult conversation
Samsung is just turning into apple
I dont think i have ever laughed out loud so hard from the WAN show before. Luke trying to defend Twitter banning 3rd party apps. Luke was awesome at this segment. Please keep doing these in the future. Loved it!
‘The average user is an idiot’
Linus insulted the audience 😂
The problem is - that screen factory is legally prevented from selling the product to anyone else.
Linus: "are you going to let me finish?"
Luke: "No"
🤣 😆 🤣 😂 😹
Honestly, I'll tune in for any segment that you can find a way to highlight Dan's off the cuff reactions. Dude is seriously engaging. Besides the great comments about timer/speaking batons etc. def find a way to bring him into the argument stages. Ill bet he can out debate most anyone on staff.