Im on a CS Degree in my finial year and literally yesterday i had someone get confused about zips. They were trying to copy and paste out of a zip and im blaming windows 11 because they have made it less clear that the "folder" your in is a Zip.
I'm not old by any means. I was in high school in the 2010s, but I grew up with computers pretty much all my life from ones that my dad would build from random parts he got. Typing class was my least favorite class BY FAR, even though I loved computers, because I vividly remember getting yelled at by the teacher for not typing the "correct" way with the home row keys and whatnot. Granted I don't type with just my index fingers, I do type LIKE I would be using the home row, but because it wasn't the way the curriculum was taught, it was wrong. Didn't help that the lady teaching the class looked to be about as old as the first ever computer and she typed with the index finger method and she gave a demonstration on what a "good" wpm should be, and I handily beat the demonstration, but I digress.
Imagine being on your death bed and god comes down and says hey man, I'm feeling generous, I'll give you an extra two and a half minutes to make up for the time you wasted unzipping single executables inside zip files.
Computer Literacy classes are necessary, you take writing classes in school because no matter who you are writing will be a core skill you need as an adult, computers are already almost necessary for daily life as an adult and will only become MORE necessary as time goes on, even if you may not need to know everything taught in a class you will need to know some aspect of that class, education in k-12 is GENERAL education, covering skills broadly that people will need, most people outside stem fields don't use higher level math but we still teach it because a broad spectrum of people DO. Everyone will need some aspect of a computer literacy class, few will need ALL of it but everyone would benefit from some aspects of the class which makes it valuable.
I have a fairly technical job and haven’t interacted with a zip folder in years. That being said, I disagree with Luke, only because “teaching about zip files” is like a 10 minute syllabus item, so it’s a low cost high impact thing.
I'm with Luke on this one, my black belt level Google-Fu is exactly how I know a bunch of things and can often fix problems. The first step to fixing any issue is getting good at asking the right questions.
@@brendago4505 We are not expected to know everything. even "experts" are missing some stuff in their profession. what we should know is the right way to ask so we can obtain answers.
Also have to ask how many operating systems/ programs actually care about ZIP - for the most part OS and programs these days seem to transparently unzip on demand so the zip is treated just as folder anyway.
Proper typing technique doesn't really matter for speed. There are people who only use 1 finger on their right up to 170wpm. The only thing that matters for speed is how much you practice for speed specifically proper technique is just there to make sure your wrists stay intact when you're 50+, and as a bonus it gets you to 40-60wpm relatively quickly, which is more than enough for most tasks
I would actually blame parts about the youths inability to use computers on Google. It has become pretty much impossible to Google anything. Every search result is just blog posts designed to waste your time for ad revenue.
"How Google-able is that?" is a legit thing my partner who is a teacher considers when she's planning curriculum. How to look up info and how to spot trash info is way more useful.
Luke is right. People love bitching about the younger generation too much. Its always "this generation doesn't know what this is" woop dee doo. And its always stuff that dont really matter. "The younger generation doesn't know what a pager is 😱" Every generation has their ignorance.
My thing is that we're going to keep using compressed files indefinitely. Like it would be pretty cringe not to know what a transmission in a car is and that predates the pager.
It’s half true. Different areas of computer literacy are down as automation and optimization took manual steps out of the equation. It’s now to the point where the best racer doesn’t need to know one bit how the engine works, if that makes any sense.
The covid dumbness is so relatable. I remember, when I got it, I was having trouble figuring out how to pay rent, because the invoice was formatted in a non-standard way. After that, i was just generally a bit dim. Being in a technical profession, I would stare at my work, not knowing how to do it, and get exhausted trying. All the while, I knew the things weren't overly difficult. I was just a little dim. I'm glad I was able to take time off until I got better. It ended up taking months.
High school computer science teacher here -- Kids come from elementary school and know some "advanced" stuff like algorithms and a bit of computational thinking and maybe some block code in Scratch, etc. But they don't know the useful basics like the difference between when to use Word or PowerPoint, how to use punctuation symbols like brackets or underscores, when to single- or double-click. It's maddening how all these basic skills have been taken over by iPads in the classroom.
My brother is 16, the rest of this comment below the line will be typeset just as he typeset his schoolwork he did in word (I'm less than 2 years older than him). -------------------------------------- he has no idea how to typeset stuff , he just types . hoping it would get him a nice looking file , but it wont i personally use latex , i find it very easy actually , its sort of kind of easier to type in it than it is in word , of course , if you're doing stuff with many pictures - well , it ll be an issue , its quite complex to import each one . Most of my stuff is math or physics related so it makes stuff much easier (my graphs are programmed as well) . i encourage everyone to at least try , i learnt it in like 3 days . btw , he is very good with computers , he types faster than me , he plays games better than me , he even knows some elementary programming , yet his typesetting skills are that of a 5 year old . he can't build a computer though , like , at all , dude cant use a screwdriver . . .
i have to ask do they also not know the difference between google docs and google slides or is it just an unfamiliarity with microsoft office. it’s hard for me to imagine a middle schooler that can use scratch but not the google suite.
@@BarginsGalore Google too. They can type something up, but my point is that they don't know that Word/Docs would be better for typing a letter or report -- so I have high schoolers who type up assignments all landscape at 28 point font over multiple slides. Every time. It's mindboggling how it's their go-to if they have to put words onto the screen.
My typing class was my second least favorite class in junior high, after the gym class where I got bullied. I was not a very good or fast typer at all when I started that class. They had these plastic things that you put over the keyboard and your hands so you can't look at your hands, and I struggled so much with it. I can understand why people wouldn't want to learn how to type "correctly", but as a programmer, I'm definitely glad I did.
I was kinda a shit typed until I started programming, so for me it's the otherway around, I think if you need to type fast you will eventually learn to and if you don't you just don't
I work with machines that make bleeding edge tech(tho I'm a mere devops), and I'm a filthy peck typer. Nobody cares how fast you type. Most of the work you'll be doing in a workday is wait. Wait for build, wait for tests, wait for support.
All the best typists in elementary school were the ones who played RuneScape 😂. I remember our Touch Typing class in fifth grade had a massive gulf between students who had computer access at home typing at 40wpm or higher, and a lot of students who had to focus to type "ASDFJKL;"
I never learned to touch type properly, but spending a couple of days doing touch type practice after a few years of coding has massively improved my productivity. Especially when you're in the zone, it's just so satisfying to be able to bash out code quickly
wait... this isn't a natural thing for younger generations? I mean as a millenial, typing is just second nature as we used computers on the regular. would have figured this is how the genz and forwards way as well, that they would be even faster and more knowlegable about computer stuff... Seeing as computer stuff has a even greater impact in our society!?
I do think that people should be taught the idea of files and folders. A while ago a WAN show talked about how the younger generation (that grows up with dumbed down ipads and Chromebook) doesn't really know what a file or folder is. Then they start doing actual work, like real work on an actual computer and not a toy, and then they are worthless at it
Totally. Almost none of my employees understand basic file management. So when they have to download or organize files they’re lost. Trying to guide them to finding a file is painful. This should be computers 101
When Linus and Luke were talking about if someone had submitted their high school portfolio with their job application I was just sitting here thinking, "Is that not how Jake Tivy was hired?"
Running an executable from a zip file will _always_ require it to be uncompressed. When you run it without manually decompressing it your computer just decompresses it on the fly, so you're only saving a couple of seconds and you'll start _losing_ time if you keep running the same program that way over and over.
@@deadair32101 Where the uncompressed file is stored-on disk or in memory-might differ depending on the application, but the executable is always being uncompressed before being run.
I had to fight older generations (especially my parents) to be allowed to explore and play with computers and I'm 25. Don't judge people for not knowing things because you don't know why they don't know it.
Was there judgment? Personally I'm worried that there will come a point where it's impossible to become a kernel developer. I don't see how you would transition to that from touching colorful pictures on a fully locked down device. How would anyone ever get interested in how something works and persist long enough to figure it out if they can't tinker with it?
I type decently fast for not typing "properly" (I use more than two fingers but not all 10, and certainly not consistent the same fingers for the same letters) I am however basically never limited by typing speed, since I am either limited by not knowing what I want to type (basically all longer text), or I am programming and the IDE is auto completing most of it anyway (and I am again limited by how fast I can think) yes, in theory proper 10 finger typing would be faster when copying large amounts of text than my style of typing. ...in practice copy and paste beats even the fastest writers by a lot.
Born 2003, my programmer dad taught me to touch type (well, he impressed upon me how important it was and directed me to a touch typing website). I'm actually on a mechanical engineering course at the moment, and most of my classmates I would not trust to unzip a .zip, hell some of them even struggle with the concept of basic file management for our CAD projects.
Joined a course for CAD construction and I was surprised that people younger than me seem to struggle more with some basic stuff one would do on computer. I was sure that younger generation (gen z and forward,) would have a much better grasp of software usage and figure things out quickly. As well as typing, than someone like me who is an old millenial. Aren't kids using computers today, or playing around with softwares. New generation don't use keyboards? I'm hella confused!
@FlashySenap I think the big divide is in the paradigm shift from desktops and laptops to phones and tablets. My little sister has a laptop, but she only really uses it to play the sims, and does pretty much everything on her tablet. I've also noticed that, while my father knows infinitely more about software than me, he does struggle with his phone sometimes (he usually blames bad UI design), and the things he's struggling with seem blatantly obvious to me, as someone who's had a smartphone pretty consistently since I was 12 or 13.
I will say, basic file management has always been a problem. The number of programs which makes you drill down 15-20 folder to get to data is obscene. I worked on a piece of software 10+ years ago which had log files in four different locations and some were duplicate logs just wasting gigs of space. So no, it wasn't always better in the old days.
@@memoryfoam2285 "he usually blames bad UI design" That's such a programmer move lmao
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Nobody taught me to type. And I never learned touch-typing. Why would I need to, I'm plenty fast enough. Yes, non touch-typing doesn't mean hunt-and-peck. The world is *NOT* black and white.
I'm honestly the most tech savvy person I know and while logically everything Linus said about references makes sense, I never put two and two together on not needing to extract single compressed executables. It's just always been such an easy task to extract a file that I never questioned the 3.5 seconds I could be saving. 🤣
Depends on whether you need to run the executable more than once. When you run an executable from within a zip, it is extracted to a temp folder, so if you run it multiple times, you are extracting it multiple times and storing multiple copies in the temp folder.
One of my go to stories of saving someone wasted time was at an IT gig I just recently left, a user complained that the accounts payable software when she was voiding invoices would sometimes take a long time for some accounts and not others to load their invoices. The reason? It was looking for already voided invoices as part of the search so some clients who've had hundreds of invoices over the years would take forever due to compression (and this software annoyingly being only single threaded) and I showed her a button that ignored them. She went into the CFO's office and showed him the button and he said he uses that constantly. She then told him we've wasted 10s of thousands of dollars on this issue as she's been having this problem for 7 years. The invoices load instantaneously now.
As a high school student, one of my key problems with modern education is that they *can* teach what zip files are, but people DONT KNOW HOW TO GOOGLE! SO LITTLE PEOPLE IN MY SCHOOL ACTUALLY BOTHER TO GOOGLE HOW TO FIX THINGS. It's genuinely super annoying Along with this, I believe a key problem modern day students is so little have a "complex" machine accessible to them. Schools now use Chromebooks because they're easy to use, but now students dont get the opportunity to have first hand experience on how to debug and solve their problem.
What do you mean don't know how to google? You just google and find the answer? I was certain that younger generations would be a lot more tech savvy than us old millenials :S
@@FlashySenapYou'd be surprised. If you are a teenager or in your early twenties and you go to some sort of school or university, most of the students at those schools, at least in the US, are practically braindead when it comes to understanding basic software functionality. When I used the term "Windows" around one of my flatmates, she genuinely thought I was referring to the glass squares that you look through and had no idea that it was an operating system. I then told her that it was an "operating system" that most computers use, and she didn't understand what that meant either. As a member of Gen Z, I think Gen Z is just as dumb with tech as the previous generations... it's just for different reasons, and the next generation will likely also be incredibly stupid, just for a new reason.
This is what worries me. Deeply. How is anyone supposed to go from "there's an app for that" on their completely locked down device to kernel developer?
Learning how to learn is one of the most important things to teach but one of the hardest things to really internalize without taking the time to do it. The best you can do is help people learn when they come to you with issues in the future so they can build their skillset.
@@FlashySenap Yep. It doesn't help that a lot of kids have their own iPad or tablet and phone and a school Chromebook. So while they may be "savvy" on how to use to use them for media consumption, most of them don't really know how to use them past social media apps. There's a big difference between being a social media app power user vs understanding how the device works.
My only typing classes were in the first grade and I didn't have to use computers regularly until high school. I eventually had to type enough I learned the hard way to type correctly so hearing people at LMG doing it wrong isn't all shocking Edit: just to clarify I'm only 25 I just had a lot of anti computer teachers lol
That's nuts dude. My school, computer class started at 3rd grade, just familiarization courses really. Every year it would be a little more involved. 7th grade involved a program designed to increase your typing speed, and we started getting computer only assignments, meaning they had to be typed/completed on the computer.
I used computers in 5th grade, an apple IIe, I didn't have a typing class until 1986. I also learned cursive, home economics (check writing, balancing bills, cooking), woodshop, metalshop, electricity class, small gas engines, auto-mechanics, and hunter safety course as well. (meaning they taught you how to survive.)
@@jottenmiller I'm 53. My daughter is 25, and she learned those things like you did.....but the kids now don't. My younger brother has school age kids, they're not really taught anything much now, except they all want to go viral and be an influencer, which makes me laugh. Oh, and I know what a woman is.
(About the topic around the start) I'm a younger millennial who spent 5 years in Uni for my degree, and kept in contact with some of the post-grad students who stuck around and continued to teach even after I was gone. Apparently, many Gen Z don't even get the idea of "folders", because the way they've interacted with computers all their lives, that concept has been abstracted away by apps. Who needs to sort documents into the right folder within My Documents when the oldest version of Windows you can remember using is Win 7, which had a pretty good search box built in! Anyways, Word will just show you a list of the last documents you worked on, so who even knows _where_ they're stored? And those who used iPads as their primary OS... So many Gen Z actually just haven't been exposed to computing concepts even just us younger Millennials take as a given, simply because tech got too good at usability and abstracted away too many of the operational details
My theory is that there's a sweet spot for computer literacy for people who grew up in the 80s until the early 2000s. Around that time having a computer at home became affordable, but they were terrible and janky to use. You had to do a lot of problem solving and naturally picked up skills. Things probably peaked when internet access became widespread and people could suddenly easily self-educate. Post-smartphone this kind of widespread tinkering with tech just stopped and we're now seeing the results.
Windows nowadays makes very little distinction between folders and zip files. The fact that you can just open most compressed archives within Windows explorer means that most people would never really understand that they're not just opening a weird folder. You can also run files normally from within the compressed archive as far as the user is concerned, because windows just extracts a file if you need to use just that file. The little dialog box that asks if you want to extract all isn't really going to register in most people's heads
At this point, the world is running on computers. Computer literacy is essential, to have any understanding of the world we live in. But learning how to use a desktop computer is less relevant than ever.
My favorite part of this video is Linus realizing 2 minutes into his example that its niche and proves the opposite of his point so he scrambles to make it work for him.
YOU were hacked because one of your colleagues didn't know the risks of zip files. They definitely should be taught at schools. Teachers use them (I'm a teacher I know), IT, electronics, repairmen and office people too. Your perspective is a little narrow.
Regarding typing speed, I've always typed with two fingers and can honestly do so at a relatively fast rate. I might learn the proper way to do it at some point, but it honestly works for me right now.
Think about cars - same thing. Everyone drives them but only some people know how they work. To 90% of the people on the road, they might as well be powered by dark magic.
I do think knowing what zip file is, matters*. Its part of being computer literate that gives basis for using it and other features. A lot of emails have attached zip files. Same goes for many documents in a cloud. It being uni or work, it will come up sooner or later.
I entierly agree with Luke, creating a system to teach people how to propely look up information would be really good. As a CompSci student I'll see other students struggeling with stuff they can look up within 2 seconds if they knew what to look for and how.
I work at a state college and many of the incoming freshman lack basic computer literacy knowledge and skills. They also lack basic reading and listening comprehension. I don't know how these students even made it into college with how bad they are.
@@JonFroboy most people wont want to listen to a 1 hour vid on loop about cybersecurity and typing. The point of the class is that it makes sure people learn it. Thats why everyone wants taxes and finances to be taught in school even though they could just watch a 1 hour youtube vid on loop
I feel like the late 90s to early 00s kids really ended up with the best of both worlds. We were juuust before the big mobile tech boom (i.e. pre iPhone) yet just after the Internet explosion.
I still would bring the binder and add the 'online' 640x480 version to the full 8K colour-calibrated printouts that are not online anywhere. They get stolen anyways if you put good art online. (even if you watermark it)
I'd suggest you still would go massively faster if you don't have to hunt'n'peck - which is a very active mental process that also takes substantial time than if you just focused on the programs logic and can type on autopilot the way a touch typist does.
I drove my teacher insane when we had a computers course in middle school. they had us do typing exercises, and I held my hands in the WASD position instead of home row. they would constantly walk over and complain to me about it. I still don't type home row, it feels so unnatural. I really have never seen much of an issue with my typing speed. Sure maybe if I needed to go to 90 wpm+, but im happy with 70.
I don't hold a pen the normal way and teachers used to put these triangle things onto my pens to get me to hold it "correctly" but I didn't and just ended up with little bruises on my fingers. It's really weird why they try to teach a correct way to do something when it doesn't really matter. If it's comfortable for you and you can type/write what difference does it make to anybody else lol
@@FlashySenapit's the middle row of keyboard letters (ASDF and so forth). there's usually notches on F and J to show where your index fingers should be, when you touch type
4:20 Luke, the fact that you think that not knowing what a zip file is is not going to matter is a very valid point. However consider all of the other useless garbage you learned in public school gen ed courses. I don't think being well-rounded in your earlier schooling years is a bad thing, but really a lot of places mess it up with their gen eds instead of focusing on something that the student actually enjoys doing to have them be passionate about their career
As someone that just left middle school we had a class that everyone took unless you were a band kid where we typed for 5 minutes at the beginning and would take a speed test at the end. In first grade we would spend time learning to type on keyboards. I was very annoyed in elementary school when they would spend hours yapping about online security and how to find reliable information since I knew it, but they did spend time teaching us this stuff.
I think there is a misconception that the youngster grow up with computers and tech must have every knowledge about computers. We make things too easy for them that they don’t even know the underlying principles of how things work, they also lack the motive to know how things works
Yep. It doesn't help that a lot of students, at least in the US, use Chromebooks or iPads. I work in school IT support and am 26. I work with a wide range of staff from about my age to people in their 70s from time to time. Even a lot of the younger teachers struggle with technology past iPads and Macs.
Computer Keyboard Typing was a thing they taught us in public schools. Also Comp Ed & Software Apps courses was and still is offered as elective courses, rather than being required. There are a lot of tech-savvy Gen-Z people who don't know what or how some Technologies work, especially office equipment (ie: Fax Machines & Photocopiers), or they don't know how to use a computer, because they only used smartphones.
My careers planning class was the only class where I got a C on, because it had almost 0 direction or expectation so I basically had no idea what to do or what to look for
3:06 if watching my Dad is an accurate measurement, yes it bothers them exponentially depending on how much they need to type in the moment. But rather than taking this a motivation to learn how to do it faster and more efficiently they instead take it as "Computers bad" and double down that its technology's fault.
In the UK, and especially wales, a lot of colleges (students 16-18 years old typically) have started including a mandatory digital literacy certificate on some more technical qualifications. It covers how to use Google advanced search, how to evaluate a source for provenance, how to organise files, how to use email, Teams and other forms of digital communication, how to put together a presentation/website (depending on the level), and some basic knowledge of cybersecurity.
that certificate is painfully boring for anyone who already understands how to do it all. my college stupidly decided that a computing class would do it and we all hated it a lot, maybe it would go down better with people who don't know a whole lot about computers
@post_human_luden I completely agree, I got into engineering through my interest in computers and it was painful having to do the digital literacy qualification.
I work in IT at a K-12 school district in the US. I can tell you we definitely do still teach typing, especially at the elementary level because the kids have to type their responses for state testing. However, the vast majority of our students use voice to text or the onscreen touch keyboard. When it comes to something like a zip file, it's very unlikely any student in the US is using a PC or Mac. Most districts are exclusively using Chromebooks or iPads for students. Our district even gives teachers Chromebooks as their primary device. Considering most parents don't have a computer anymore at home because they get on the internet with their phones or tablets, these kids will probably never see a PC until they get into the work force.
in addition to bringing back teaching kids about how to type and do it well enough instead of pecking.. i think we should bring back cursive as well. they last taught it 23 years ago when i was 8.. for that one year.. and never again.. i cant write it anymore its been so long but i can still read it.
Graduated with my associates and brought my resume and portfolio to my first 3 job interviews in my field. (Was top of my class btw) 1st job didn't want to know about it cuz he said the last interview he had one and he didn't feel (based on theirs) any portfolio could be relevant. 2nd guy had 3 interviews of people from my same school, since the first guy bombed the interview he decided to just blow me off. 3rd guy looked at my stuff, liked it halfway through... Found out where I went to school and then proceeded to roast me and all my work. He had an interview the year prior of someone from my school who graduated bottom of their class. Point is I had zero inclination after that to bring anything but my resume and mention zero info about my history except skills, how long I've had them, and how I've used them in jobs prior
Holy snap that some strong bias and very unprofessional on them either way... Especially you if they turn away a good talent invididual/ candidate by accident down the line.
I would argue that people need to learn what a compressed folder is, not on its own, but as part of getting a basic understanding of how to distinguish file types. Both by extension and by the "file type" column in file explorer.
To be fair... the problem described at 5:20 only happens because Windows' File Explorer has such a silly workflow for compressed folders where uncompress is not the main action but behind a right click.
Is it a problem, though? For the vast majority of people, there will be documents or maybe images zipped. It is irrelevant for most that this is compressed; the folder workflow makes sense. (Even if I personally disable this behaviour)
Im doing a digital support and services T level and they are teaching how to find good sources of information and know to trust it so it does get taught but not in regular education
In the UK my entire education we was drilled on how to find reliable info every time was using computers always made sure we were checking at least 3 sources
I'm 25 and my school actually taught how to type fast around 12 years ago! The school wasn't even specialised in IT, but we even had intro to programming, photo editing and basics of working with databases (+ working with Microsoft Office apps, which is probably taught more commonly). I never realised it wasn't common 😅
On ZIP files, I’ve noted newer OS use a folder-type icon for the file…which I see as potentially confusing. I remember when the icon was essentially a c-clamp on files.
Basically storage is so much less of an issue than it used to be, along with internet bandwidth, download speeds etc etc that zip files are rarely needed anymore. That’s why people don’t know what they are.
I don't know why sometimes the mail client on Windows just doesn't want to send certain filetypes, so I usually just compress them in a zip folder and send that 😅
We had computer literacy classes back in late 90's, and that's where I learned about keyboard home keys and zip files. Later batches didn't have that course anymore. And i realized the same thing: younger generations type with just their index fingers.
We had these things called "Informed Citizens" that was a research project that we were assigned 3 times in high school. It had a focus on finding quality information and getting up to date on certain issues, it's a good idea in theory. However the time needed for the teacher to thoroughly look through 45 students projects while grading all the regular stuff, and still having a life wasn't possible. So in practice it just didn't work.
I think the reason they SHOULD make computer literacy things a mandatory course that they teach again in schools is because people old or young nowadays don't generally even have the common sense of Googling how to do something or learn what something is. That's why you have "Tech" content creators on Tik Tok blowing up, because people have no idea that things like shortcuts even exist on their computers, hell, people don't even know wtf type of connection port is ON THEIR PHONE CHARGERS THAT THEY USE EVERY DAY...
Considering the ridiculous requirements companies have for positions I'm pretty sure nearly everyone actually getting those positions lied about at least a third of their resume, and I absolutely do not fault them for it. At this point it's practically sensible job-seeking advice to embellish your skills and experience in your resume to a substantial degree because most of the time the company is not going to background-check anything as long as you show that you can actually do the job.
I believe that everybody should have a knowledge of the machines that run their lives (that they own and interact with on a daily basis) that goes below the surface level of basic utilization.
I think conversations of “x should be in school” is pointless unless you are going to discuss what gets cut out. Do you want your kids in school 24 hours a day? Probably not. What about 12? 10? Assuming you keep the hours the same, are you cutting band? Foreign languages? History? Math? I think that kids have too much to do anyways and now they have voices demanding they do extra classes on computer literacy and tax law….
My lecturers, who have earned a fu*kin PhD don't know what they are teaching. I am in a bachelor's degree majoring in cybersec and my lecturers don't even know basic networking or anything.
Love Linus some times tho I feel like he has this idea that everyone is out to be as efficient and effective as possible and that’s not the case a lot of the time. Or maybe they choose to take advantage of that from time to time
If you want to send anything cool you need to zip it, cab files, msi files, executables, binary files, loads of stuff gets blocked by email providers due to those kinds of attachments being considered "harmful".
I average 70 wpm, 90 when I try. everyone thinks I type fast, and I am amazed by how slow they type. if I lost 30 wpm from 70 I'd feel terrible.
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Touch-typing is overrated. Sorry, Linus is just so fucking wrong. I'm typing this with two fingers. Left index, right middle (don't ask why, it just happens). And I'm fast, fast enough anyway. Yes, if you have to hunt each letter, you're slow. But I don't, I don't even look at the keyboard. There's a world between touch-typing and hunt-and-peck.
wait, hold on, I know that if you download stuff like 3D files from the web they come bundled in a .zip file. Wouldn't that be relevant to a designer? but here's the thing, I didn't learn about compressed files in school, I googled it well over a decade ago when I was trying to pirate stuff :P so you can argue it's something you learn if you need it. But here's the other thing, every interaction you have with a computer where you learn something new gives you transferable skills that can aid you intuit future interactions with systems, makes you aware hos "this sort of thing works or may work" (in the case of compressed files you learn how files work) so is not just about .zip files. It's hard to know what what's relevant to know at the moment, but it never hurts to know, knowledge is power
5:10 I'm more or less with Linus on that one. It would be helpful if the average computer user knew what a Zip file is and how it's different from a regular folder (despite Windows presenting them more or less as the same thing). HOWEVER the issue you're describing - opening an .exe file which requires libraries which were packaged within the same zip file - this is user error, even if the user never knew what a zip file is. Whenever you open an executable from a zipped file in windows, it screams at you that other files in this zipped folder may be required, so you should probably extract the while archive and then open the file. This particular problem was not about computer literacy, but about reading with comprehension. Knowledge anybody should have by the time they are barely double-digit aged.
Now that you can "open" a zip file and look at the content, this is a lot more likely. I've accidentally done this not realizing I haven't unzipped something and was confused why some stuff weren't working quite right. Back in the day where you must unzip before using the content, knowing the need and the how to unzip is a lot more common.
I got taught typing in school, but simultaniousely i find the posture of having your hands like that extremely uncomfortable on 99% of desks because i have un-naturally long fingers, so i developed this very weird hybrid way of typing inbetween pick n point and traditional typing, it always throws people off and i love it
To who does it matter to know what a zip file is? Ehm, maybe all those who keep asking for help using a program which came zipped, those who claim they could not do task xyz because they could not use the files send to them, those students using wild and time consuming ways to share a folder. It is so easy to learn the important basics and sooooooooooooo much time is wasted by those who refuse learning them. In any other field you would get kicked out if you'D refuse to learn the most basic stuff. But even more important than zip files and typing are short cuts. Seeing so many students taking minutes to copy and paste stuff because they do not even know ctrl c kills me inside. Not because they are dumb, but because they waste their time.
2:01 I Disagree with this on a personal level. I can type relatively fast, but I am by no means a touch typist. I type with 2 fingers but do it speedily. I can't think any faster than I can type. If I typed any faster, I wouldn't be giving myself the time to think through what I'm actually writing. My output may be slower, but it will be of a higher quality.
I do think there should be a basic computer literacy class over one semester you must attend that teachers that basic fundamentals of using Windows and basic software. We had this in middle school and a class in highschool that took it a step further teaching us HTML. Yes this was 2016 and they were teaching from an HTML book from 1995, but, I still learned a lot that I'm happy to of learned at all. Speaking of extracting files, This is how I was exposed to 7zip in 6th grade. It's what all the computers had, and in our computer class it was one of the first things we were shown. I've used 7zip now all my life, and as a weirdo I love how it runs the exact same and can even run at all from Windows 95 all the way up to 11, with ancestors of 7zip also being available for DOS and Win 3.1. Sorry young GenZ with your winrars, 7zip is better. Better UI top to bottom as well
Hiring luke turns out to be the best decision ever. Luke has single handedly saved LTT several times
The hard R bit was the most recent one and I still cringe lol
@@JampackGaming707I still laugh about it
Yes, from Linus
@@JampackGaming707 It got a bit overblown don't you think?
@@JampackGaming707what is the hard R?
8:10 for the resume part
Im on a CS Degree in my finial year and literally yesterday i had someone get confused about zips. They were trying to copy and paste out of a zip and im blaming windows 11 because they have made it less clear that the "folder" your in is a Zip.
Not the best at spelling though
I'm not old by any means. I was in high school in the 2010s, but I grew up with computers pretty much all my life from ones that my dad would build from random parts he got. Typing class was my least favorite class BY FAR, even though I loved computers, because I vividly remember getting yelled at by the teacher for not typing the "correct" way with the home row keys and whatnot. Granted I don't type with just my index fingers, I do type LIKE I would be using the home row, but because it wasn't the way the curriculum was taught, it was wrong.
Didn't help that the lady teaching the class looked to be about as old as the first ever computer and she typed with the index finger method and she gave a demonstration on what a "good" wpm should be, and I handily beat the demonstration, but I digress.
Linus and Luke’s stance on the “zip file” conversation really is just an argument between “in a perfect world” and “in a real world”
Imagine being on your death bed and god comes down and says hey man, I'm feeling generous, I'll give you an extra two and a half minutes to make up for the time you wasted unzipping single executables inside zip files.
Computer Literacy classes are necessary, you take writing classes in school because no matter who you are writing will be a core skill you need as an adult, computers are already almost necessary for daily life as an adult and will only become MORE necessary as time goes on, even if you may not need to know everything taught in a class you will need to know some aspect of that class, education in k-12 is GENERAL education, covering skills broadly that people will need, most people outside stem fields don't use higher level math but we still teach it because a broad spectrum of people DO.
Everyone will need some aspect of a computer literacy class, few will need ALL of it but everyone would benefit from some aspects of the class which makes it valuable.
I have a fairly technical job and haven’t interacted with a zip folder in years. That being said, I disagree with Luke, only because “teaching about zip files” is like a 10 minute syllabus item, so it’s a low cost high impact thing.
I love Dan making sure Luke wasn't getting cornered when Linux started talking about reading his resume. Good looking out, lol
Honestly common sense class would probably be far better than any zip file class 😂
I'm with Luke on this one, my black belt level Google-Fu is exactly how I know a bunch of things and can often fix problems. The first step to fixing any issue is getting good at asking the right questions.
yeah, for the woke generation they need it 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@brendago4505
We are not expected to know everything. even "experts" are missing some stuff in their profession.
what we should know is the right way to ask so we can obtain answers.
Also have to ask how many operating systems/ programs actually care about ZIP - for the most part OS and programs these days seem to transparently unzip on demand so the zip is treated just as folder anyway.
There Is literally nothing common sense
I had a classmate who typed using only his 2 index fingers, without looking at the keyboard and was one of the fastest 3 typers of the class.
what was his WPM
@@AceTriggerz
I can't remember. I also have no idea what my current or previous "WPM" is since I'm not being graded on it anymore (;
I was doing that when I hurt my hand at work and my boss was like "T-REX typing!" and made fun of me for the rest of the day
Im 6 finger typist 2 years ago and my wpm is 120. They say 10 fingers is better so I changed it Im 55 wpm right now 😂
Proper typing technique doesn't really matter for speed. There are people who only use 1 finger on their right up to 170wpm. The only thing that matters for speed is how much you practice for speed specifically
proper technique is just there to make sure your wrists stay intact when you're 50+, and as a bonus it gets you to 40-60wpm relatively quickly, which is more than enough for most tasks
I would actually blame parts about the youths inability to use computers on Google. It has become pretty much impossible to Google anything. Every search result is just blog posts designed to waste your time for ad revenue.
"Why am I wearing a headset? What a loser." Said while wearing a headset.
"How Google-able is that?" is a legit thing my partner who is a teacher considers when she's planning curriculum. How to look up info and how to spot trash info is way more useful.
Luke is right. People love bitching about the younger generation too much. Its always "this generation doesn't know what this is" woop dee doo. And its always stuff that dont really matter. "The younger generation doesn't know what a pager is 😱"
Every generation has their ignorance.
Pagers are just funny to me
My thing is that we're going to keep using compressed files indefinitely. Like it would be pretty cringe not to know what a transmission in a car is and that predates the pager.
It’s half true. Different areas of computer literacy are down as automation and optimization took manual steps out of the equation. It’s now to the point where the best racer doesn’t need to know one bit how the engine works, if that makes any sense.
I have no ignorance.
@@shanemitchell477 I hope you're saying that as a joke, everyone is ignorant about something. Usually a lot more than just one thing.
The covid dumbness is so relatable. I remember, when I got it, I was having trouble figuring out how to pay rent, because the invoice was formatted in a non-standard way.
After that, i was just generally a bit dim. Being in a technical profession, I would stare at my work, not knowing how to do it, and get exhausted trying. All the while, I knew the things weren't overly difficult. I was just a little dim.
I'm glad I was able to take time off until I got better. It ended up taking months.
Had this also... So demoralising. Luckily my colleagues had experienced similar and were very understanding.
Oh boy! I think I caught the millennium plague again... I hope I don't get stupefied again. At least muscle weakness is back...
I haven't fully recovered from the covid mental fog, tbh
High school computer science teacher here -- Kids come from elementary school and know some "advanced" stuff like algorithms and a bit of computational thinking and maybe some block code in Scratch, etc. But they don't know the useful basics like the difference between when to use Word or PowerPoint, how to use punctuation symbols like brackets or underscores, when to single- or double-click. It's maddening how all these basic skills have been taken over by iPads in the classroom.
My brother is 16, the rest of this comment below the line will be typeset just as he typeset his schoolwork he did in word (I'm less than 2 years older than him).
--------------------------------------
he has no idea how to typeset stuff , he just types . hoping it would get him a nice looking file , but it wont
i personally use latex , i find it very easy actually , its sort of kind of easier to type in it than it is in word , of course , if you're doing stuff with many pictures - well , it ll be an issue , its quite complex to import each one . Most of my stuff is math or physics related so it makes stuff much easier (my graphs are programmed as well) . i encourage everyone to at least try , i learnt it in like 3 days .
btw , he is very good with computers , he types faster than me , he plays games better than me , he even knows some elementary programming , yet his typesetting skills are that of a 5 year old . he can't build a computer though , like , at all , dude cant use a screwdriver . . .
i have to ask do they also not know the difference between google docs and google slides or is it just an unfamiliarity with microsoft office. it’s hard for me to imagine a middle schooler that can use scratch but not the google suite.
@@BarginsGalore Google too. They can type something up, but my point is that they don't know that Word/Docs would be better for typing a letter or report -- so I have high schoolers who type up assignments all landscape at 28 point font over multiple slides. Every time. It's mindboggling how it's their go-to if they have to put words onto the screen.
My typing class was my second least favorite class in junior high, after the gym class where I got bullied. I was not a very good or fast typer at all when I started that class. They had these plastic things that you put over the keyboard and your hands so you can't look at your hands, and I struggled so much with it. I can understand why people wouldn't want to learn how to type "correctly", but as a programmer, I'm definitely glad I did.
I was kinda a shit typed until I started programming, so for me it's the otherway around, I think if you need to type fast you will eventually learn to and if you don't you just don't
I work with machines that make bleeding edge tech(tho I'm a mere devops), and I'm a filthy peck typer. Nobody cares how fast you type. Most of the work you'll be doing in a workday is wait. Wait for build, wait for tests, wait for support.
All the best typists in elementary school were the ones who played RuneScape 😂. I remember our Touch Typing class in fifth grade had a massive gulf between students who had computer access at home typing at 40wpm or higher, and a lot of students who had to focus to type "ASDFJKL;"
I never learned to touch type properly, but spending a couple of days doing touch type practice after a few years of coding has massively improved my productivity. Especially when you're in the zone, it's just so satisfying to be able to bash out code quickly
wait... this isn't a natural thing for younger generations?
I mean as a millenial, typing is just second nature as we used computers on the regular. would have figured this is how the genz and forwards way as well, that they would be even faster and more knowlegable about computer stuff... Seeing as computer stuff has a even greater impact in our society!?
I do think that people should be taught the idea of files and folders. A while ago a WAN show talked about how the younger generation (that grows up with dumbed down ipads and Chromebook) doesn't really know what a file or folder is. Then they start doing actual work, like real work on an actual computer and not a toy, and then they are worthless at it
Totally. Almost none of my employees understand basic file management. So when they have to download or organize files they’re lost. Trying to guide them to finding a file is painful. This should be computers 101
When Linus and Luke were talking about if someone had submitted their high school portfolio with their job application I was just sitting here thinking, "Is that not how Jake Tivy was hired?"
Running an executable from a zip file will _always_ require it to be uncompressed.
When you run it without manually decompressing it your computer just decompresses it on the fly, so you're only saving a couple of seconds and you'll start _losing_ time if you keep running the same program that way over and over.
Yeah and doesn't Windows keep piling up the same executable in the folder or something?
@@MitsyWuzHere I'm not a windows user so I'm not entirely sure how they handle it, but normally it's just extracted to a temp location.
@@jefftheworld depends on the program used to open the archive.
@@deadair32101 Where the uncompressed file is stored-on disk or in memory-might differ depending on the application, but the executable is always being uncompressed before being run.
...that's what he said in the video.
I had to fight older generations (especially my parents) to be allowed to explore and play with computers and I'm 25. Don't judge people for not knowing things because you don't know why they don't know it.
Was there judgment? Personally I'm worried that there will come a point where it's impossible to become a kernel developer. I don't see how you would transition to that from touching colorful pictures on a fully locked down device. How would anyone ever get interested in how something works and persist long enough to figure it out if they can't tinker with it?
@@jfolzless competition for that field now that's for sure 😂
I type decently fast for not typing "properly" (I use more than two fingers but not all 10, and certainly not consistent the same fingers for the same letters)
I am however basically never limited by typing speed, since I am either limited by not knowing what I want to type (basically all longer text),
or I am programming and the IDE is auto completing most of it anyway (and I am again limited by how fast I can think)
yes, in theory proper 10 finger typing would be faster when copying large amounts of text than my style of typing.
...in practice copy and paste beats even the fastest writers by a lot.
Born 2003, my programmer dad taught me to touch type (well, he impressed upon me how important it was and directed me to a touch typing website). I'm actually on a mechanical engineering course at the moment, and most of my classmates I would not trust to unzip a .zip, hell some of them even struggle with the concept of basic file management for our CAD projects.
Joined a course for CAD construction and I was surprised that people younger than me seem to struggle more with some basic stuff one would do on computer. I was sure that younger generation (gen z and forward,) would have a much better grasp of software usage and figure things out quickly. As well as typing, than someone like me who is an old millenial. Aren't kids using computers today, or playing around with softwares. New generation don't use keyboards? I'm hella confused!
@FlashySenap I think the big divide is in the paradigm shift from desktops and laptops to phones and tablets. My little sister has a laptop, but she only really uses it to play the sims, and does pretty much everything on her tablet. I've also noticed that, while my father knows infinitely more about software than me, he does struggle with his phone sometimes (he usually blames bad UI design), and the things he's struggling with seem blatantly obvious to me, as someone who's had a smartphone pretty consistently since I was 12 or 13.
I will say, basic file management has always been a problem. The number of programs which makes you drill down 15-20 folder to get to data is obscene. I worked on a piece of software 10+ years ago which had log files in four different locations and some were duplicate logs just wasting gigs of space.
So no, it wasn't always better in the old days.
@@memoryfoam2285 "he usually blames bad UI design"
That's such a programmer move lmao
Nobody taught me to type. And I never learned touch-typing. Why would I need to, I'm plenty fast enough. Yes, non touch-typing doesn't mean hunt-and-peck. The world is *NOT* black and white.
I'm honestly the most tech savvy person I know and while logically everything Linus said about references makes sense, I never put two and two together on not needing to extract single compressed executables. It's just always been such an easy task to extract a file that I never questioned the 3.5 seconds I could be saving. 🤣
Depends on whether you need to run the executable more than once. When you run an executable from within a zip, it is extracted to a temp folder, so if you run it multiple times, you are extracting it multiple times and storing multiple copies in the temp folder.
People run exe’s out of a zip file? What kind of animal does that. Extract the file(s) first. Ffs
I’ve learned as funny as it is to me, don’t include “atention to detai” on your resume
One of my go to stories of saving someone wasted time was at an IT gig I just recently left, a user complained that the accounts payable software when she was voiding invoices would sometimes take a long time for some accounts and not others to load their invoices. The reason? It was looking for already voided invoices as part of the search so some clients who've had hundreds of invoices over the years would take forever due to compression (and this software annoyingly being only single threaded) and I showed her a button that ignored them. She went into the CFO's office and showed him the button and he said he uses that constantly. She then told him we've wasted 10s of thousands of dollars on this issue as she's been having this problem for 7 years. The invoices load instantaneously now.
As a high school student, one of my key problems with modern education is that they *can* teach what zip files are, but people DONT KNOW HOW TO GOOGLE! SO LITTLE PEOPLE IN MY SCHOOL ACTUALLY BOTHER TO GOOGLE HOW TO FIX THINGS. It's genuinely super annoying
Along with this, I believe a key problem modern day students is so little have a "complex" machine accessible to them. Schools now use Chromebooks because they're easy to use, but now students dont get the opportunity to have first hand experience on how to debug and solve their problem.
What do you mean don't know how to google? You just google and find the answer?
I was certain that younger generations would be a lot more tech savvy than us old millenials :S
@@FlashySenapYou'd be surprised. If you are a teenager or in your early twenties and you go to some sort of school or university, most of the students at those schools, at least in the US, are practically braindead when it comes to understanding basic software functionality. When I used the term "Windows" around one of my flatmates, she genuinely thought I was referring to the glass squares that you look through and had no idea that it was an operating system. I then told her that it was an "operating system" that most computers use, and she didn't understand what that meant either. As a member of Gen Z, I think Gen Z is just as dumb with tech as the previous generations... it's just for different reasons, and the next generation will likely also be incredibly stupid, just for a new reason.
This is what worries me. Deeply. How is anyone supposed to go from "there's an app for that" on their completely locked down device to kernel developer?
Learning how to learn is one of the most important things to teach but one of the hardest things to really internalize without taking the time to do it. The best you can do is help people learn when they come to you with issues in the future so they can build their skillset.
@@FlashySenap Yep. It doesn't help that a lot of kids have their own iPad or tablet and phone and a school Chromebook. So while they may be "savvy" on how to use to use them for media consumption, most of them don't really know how to use them past social media apps. There's a big difference between being a social media app power user vs understanding how the device works.
My only typing classes were in the first grade and I didn't have to use computers regularly until high school. I eventually had to type enough I learned the hard way to type correctly so hearing people at LMG doing it wrong isn't all shocking
Edit: just to clarify I'm only 25 I just had a lot of anti computer teachers lol
That's nuts dude. My school, computer class started at 3rd grade, just familiarization courses really. Every year it would be a little more involved. 7th grade involved a program designed to increase your typing speed, and we started getting computer only assignments, meaning they had to be typed/completed on the computer.
I used computers in 5th grade, an apple IIe, I didn't have a typing class until 1986. I also learned cursive, home economics (check writing, balancing bills, cooking), woodshop, metalshop, electricity class, small gas engines, auto-mechanics, and hunter safety course as well. (meaning they taught you how to survive.)
@@shanemitchell477 I had home economics though it was more sewing and cooking and woodshop
@@jottenmiller I'm 53. My daughter is 25, and she learned those things like you did.....but the kids now don't. My younger brother has school age kids, they're not really taught anything much now, except they all want to go viral and be an influencer, which makes me laugh. Oh, and I know what a woman is.
@@GH0STST4RSCR34MAs a 23 year old, I had typing for a few years around 5th grade
(About the topic around the start) I'm a younger millennial who spent 5 years in Uni for my degree, and kept in contact with some of the post-grad students who stuck around and continued to teach even after I was gone. Apparently, many Gen Z don't even get the idea of "folders", because the way they've interacted with computers all their lives, that concept has been abstracted away by apps. Who needs to sort documents into the right folder within My Documents when the oldest version of Windows you can remember using is Win 7, which had a pretty good search box built in! Anyways, Word will just show you a list of the last documents you worked on, so who even knows _where_ they're stored? And those who used iPads as their primary OS...
So many Gen Z actually just haven't been exposed to computing concepts even just us younger Millennials take as a given, simply because tech got too good at usability and abstracted away too many of the operational details
My theory is that there's a sweet spot for computer literacy for people who grew up in the 80s until the early 2000s. Around that time having a computer at home became affordable, but they were terrible and janky to use. You had to do a lot of problem solving and naturally picked up skills. Things probably peaked when internet access became widespread and people could suddenly easily self-educate. Post-smartphone this kind of widespread tinkering with tech just stopped and we're now seeing the results.
Windows nowadays makes very little distinction between folders and zip files. The fact that you can just open most compressed archives within Windows explorer means that most people would never really understand that they're not just opening a weird folder. You can also run files normally from within the compressed archive as far as the user is concerned, because windows just extracts a file if you need to use just that file. The little dialog box that asks if you want to extract all isn't really going to register in most people's heads
This! Microsoft is to blame
COVID really pulls a 'Flowers for Algernon' moment for so many people who get it.
I know the reference but not quote what you mean.
13:53 - "Why am I wearing a headset?! What a f%*king loser..." - literally wearing a headset right now as well, but ok 😂
Wrong timestamp
hes listening to himself in the podcast and isnt using the headphones in the ncix video
7-zip unzips the entire archive to %temp% when executing an exe
Avoiding looking up trash information is very important. Agree with Luke on that. I certainly I have no idea how to do it!
At this point, the world is running on computers.
Computer literacy is essential, to have any understanding of the world we live in.
But learning how to use a desktop computer is less relevant than ever.
Linus: "All I do is write and do emails! If I was slow at this the company would shut down!"
*spend 4 minutes trying to open the correct attachment*
My favorite part of this video is Linus realizing 2 minutes into his example that its niche and proves the opposite of his point so he scrambles to make it work for him.
YOU were hacked because one of your colleagues didn't know the risks of zip files. They definitely should be taught at schools. Teachers use them (I'm a teacher I know), IT, electronics, repairmen and office people too. Your perspective is a little narrow.
Regarding typing speed, I've always typed with two fingers and can honestly do so at a relatively fast rate. I might learn the proper way to do it at some point, but it honestly works for me right now.
I used hunt and peck until I memorized the keyboard and not I’m at about 110 wpm
Think about cars - same thing. Everyone drives them but only some people know how they work. To 90% of the people on the road, they might as well be powered by dark magic.
You don't need to know how zip file works though. You need to know what buttons to press just just like with a car.
I do think knowing what zip file is, matters*. Its part of being computer literate that gives basis for using it and other features. A lot of emails have attached zip files. Same goes for many documents in a cloud. It being uni or work, it will come up sooner or later.
Dam Luke 😂actually called out Linus on (if it isn’t Linus way it wrong). Luke makes a good point, a simple google search will solve it right away
I entierly agree with Luke, creating a system to teach people how to propely look up information would be really good. As a CompSci student I'll see other students struggeling with stuff they can look up within 2 seconds if they knew what to look for and how.
I work at a state college and many of the incoming freshman lack basic computer literacy knowledge and skills. They also lack basic reading and listening comprehension. I don't know how these students even made it into college with how bad they are.
i mostly use 2 fingers and can get up to 110wpm on a good keyboard, get on my level. learned it on runescape
Wait, did computer literacy courses get removed from schools? Why?
because a 1 hour TH-cam video on loop can teach literacy better than any old school teacher can
@@JonFroboy most people wont want to listen to a 1 hour vid on loop about cybersecurity and typing. The point of the class is that it makes sure people learn it. Thats why everyone wants taxes and finances to be taught in school even though they could just watch a 1 hour youtube vid on loop
I feel like the late 90s to early 00s kids really ended up with the best of both worlds. We were juuust before the big mobile tech boom (i.e. pre iPhone) yet just after the Internet explosion.
In terms of understanding the technology sure, but with all the social problems it caused, my god
I still would bring the binder and add the 'online' 640x480 version to the full 8K colour-calibrated printouts that are not online anywhere. They get stolen anyways if you put good art online. (even if you watermark it)
2:52 especially if you are a programmer typing speed doesnt really matter much, how many words per minute do you actually code? and yes luke is right.
I'd suggest you still would go massively faster if you don't have to hunt'n'peck - which is a very active mental process that also takes substantial time than if you just focused on the programs logic and can type on autopilot the way a touch typist does.
"Trust me, Dan."
**Loses all trust**
In Italy to obtain a driver's license you have to know how a internal combustion engines work.
I drove my teacher insane when we had a computers course in middle school. they had us do typing exercises, and I held my hands in the WASD position instead of home row. they would constantly walk over and complain to me about it. I still don't type home row, it feels so unnatural. I really have never seen much of an issue with my typing speed. Sure maybe if I needed to go to 90 wpm+, but im happy with 70.
I don't hold a pen the normal way and teachers used to put these triangle things onto my pens to get me to hold it "correctly" but I didn't and just ended up with little bruises on my fingers. It's really weird why they try to teach a correct way to do something when it doesn't really matter. If it's comfortable for you and you can type/write what difference does it make to anybody else lol
what is home row?
I was never taught in school about that kind of stuff. We learned how to use HTML, Word and excel...
@@FlashySenapit's the middle row of keyboard letters (ASDF and so forth). there's usually notches on F and J to show where your index fingers should be, when you touch type
4:20 Luke, the fact that you think that not knowing what a zip file is is not going to matter is a very valid point. However consider all of the other useless garbage you learned in public school gen ed courses. I don't think being well-rounded in your earlier schooling years is a bad thing, but really a lot of places mess it up with their gen eds instead of focusing on something that the student actually enjoys doing to have them be passionate about their career
6:30 TIL about the zip execution thing, I work in tech and have never had to execute a file from a zip file
As someone that just left middle school we had a class that everyone took unless you were a band kid where we typed for 5 minutes at the beginning and would take a speed test at the end. In first grade we would spend time learning to type on keyboards.
I was very annoyed in elementary school when they would spend hours yapping about online security and how to find reliable information since I knew it, but they did spend time teaching us this stuff.
I think there is a misconception that the youngster grow up with computers and tech must have every knowledge about computers.
We make things too easy for them that they don’t even know the underlying principles of how things work, they also lack the motive to know how things works
Yep. It doesn't help that a lot of students, at least in the US, use Chromebooks or iPads. I work in school IT support and am 26. I work with a wide range of staff from about my age to people in their 70s from time to time. Even a lot of the younger teachers struggle with technology past iPads and Macs.
Computer Keyboard Typing was a thing they taught us in public schools.
Also Comp Ed & Software Apps courses was and still is offered as elective courses, rather than being required.
There are a lot of tech-savvy Gen-Z people who don't know what or how some Technologies work, especially office equipment (ie: Fax Machines & Photocopiers), or they don't know how to use a computer, because they only used smartphones.
As a software developer (which is someone that literally types for a living) I can assure you, typing is not the bottleneck.
6:10 who fucking cares this is the biggest non issue I have seen Linus talk so passionately about...
My careers planning class was the only class where I got a C on, because it had almost 0 direction or expectation so I basically had no idea what to do or what to look for
3:06 if watching my Dad is an accurate measurement, yes it bothers them exponentially depending on how much they need to type in the moment.
But rather than taking this a motivation to learn how to do it faster and more efficiently they instead take it as "Computers bad" and double down that its technology's fault.
6:25 the program is still decompressing the file, so whether they do or not, doesn't really matter. Its not actually running from within the zip file.
In the UK, and especially wales, a lot of colleges (students 16-18 years old typically) have started including a mandatory digital literacy certificate on some more technical qualifications. It covers how to use Google advanced search, how to evaluate a source for provenance, how to organise files, how to use email, Teams and other forms of digital communication, how to put together a presentation/website (depending on the level), and some basic knowledge of cybersecurity.
that certificate is painfully boring for anyone who already understands how to do it all. my college stupidly decided that a computing class would do it and we all hated it a lot, maybe it would go down better with people who don't know a whole lot about computers
@post_human_luden I completely agree, I got into engineering through my interest in computers and it was painful having to do the digital literacy qualification.
I work in IT at a K-12 school district in the US. I can tell you we definitely do still teach typing, especially at the elementary level because the kids have to type their responses for state testing. However, the vast majority of our students use voice to text or the onscreen touch keyboard. When it comes to something like a zip file, it's very unlikely any student in the US is using a PC or Mac. Most districts are exclusively using Chromebooks or iPads for students. Our district even gives teachers Chromebooks as their primary device. Considering most parents don't have a computer anymore at home because they get on the internet with their phones or tablets, these kids will probably never see a PC until they get into the work force.
in addition to bringing back teaching kids about how to type and do it well enough instead of pecking.. i think we should bring back cursive as well. they last taught it 23 years ago when i was 8.. for that one year.. and never again.. i cant write it anymore its been so long but i can still read it.
Graduated with my associates and brought my resume and portfolio to my first 3 job interviews in my field. (Was top of my class btw)
1st job didn't want to know about it cuz he said the last interview he had one and he didn't feel (based on theirs) any portfolio could be relevant. 2nd guy had 3 interviews of people from my same school, since the first guy bombed the interview he decided to just blow me off. 3rd guy looked at my stuff, liked it halfway through... Found out where I went to school and then proceeded to roast me and all my work. He had an interview the year prior of someone from my school who graduated bottom of their class.
Point is I had zero inclination after that to bring anything but my resume and mention zero info about my history except skills, how long I've had them, and how I've used them in jobs prior
Holy snap that some strong bias and very unprofessional on them either way... Especially you if they turn away a good talent invididual/ candidate by accident down the line.
Fast typing means low thinking
I would argue that people need to learn what a compressed folder is, not on its own, but as part of getting a basic understanding of how to distinguish file types. Both by extension and by the "file type" column in file explorer.
"This is a zip file, it shrinks file size. Ok now get the free trial for winrar and you are set for life. Ok class dismissed"
Inquiring minds want to know, was it your resumé, or your resume?
How to get job at LTT? Just lie - lesson learned :P
To be fair... the problem described at 5:20 only happens because Windows' File Explorer has such a silly workflow for compressed folders where uncompress is not the main action but behind a right click.
Is it a problem, though? For the vast majority of people, there will be documents or maybe images zipped. It is irrelevant for most that this is compressed; the folder workflow makes sense. (Even if I personally disable this behaviour)
Im doing a digital support and services T level and they are teaching how to find good sources of information and know to trust it so it does get taught but not in regular education
In the UK my entire education we was drilled on how to find reliable info every time was using computers always made sure we were checking at least 3 sources
I'm 25 and my school actually taught how to type fast around 12 years ago! The school wasn't even specialised in IT, but we even had intro to programming, photo editing and basics of working with databases (+ working with Microsoft Office apps, which is probably taught more commonly). I never realised it wasn't common 😅
its like teaching Access, its basically useless for most people, but if you do go on to need it, you have the skill
On ZIP files, I’ve noted newer OS use a folder-type icon for the file…which I see as potentially confusing. I remember when the icon was essentially a c-clamp on files.
Basically storage is so much less of an issue than it used to be, along with internet bandwidth, download speeds etc etc that zip files are rarely needed anymore. That’s why people don’t know what they are.
I don't know why sometimes the mail client on Windows just doesn't want to send certain filetypes, so I usually just compress them in a zip folder and send that 😅
We had computer literacy classes back in late 90's, and that's where I learned about keyboard home keys and zip files. Later batches didn't have that course anymore. And i realized the same thing: younger generations type with just their index fingers.
We had these things called "Informed Citizens" that was a research project that we were assigned 3 times in high school. It had a focus on finding quality information and getting up to date on certain issues, it's a good idea in theory. However the time needed for the teacher to thoroughly look through 45 students projects while grading all the regular stuff, and still having a life wasn't possible. So in practice it just didn't work.
I think the reason they SHOULD make computer literacy things a mandatory course that they teach again in schools is because people old or young nowadays don't generally even have the common sense of Googling how to do something or learn what something is. That's why you have "Tech" content creators on Tik Tok blowing up, because people have no idea that things like shortcuts even exist on their computers, hell, people don't even know wtf type of connection port is ON THEIR PHONE CHARGERS THAT THEY USE EVERY DAY...
Considering the ridiculous requirements companies have for positions I'm pretty sure nearly everyone actually getting those positions lied about at least a third of their resume, and I absolutely do not fault them for it. At this point it's practically sensible job-seeking advice to embellish your skills and experience in your resume to a substantial degree because most of the time the company is not going to background-check anything as long as you show that you can actually do the job.
the highlight of this video, is Future Linus roasting past Linus.
I believe that everybody should have a knowledge of the machines that run their lives (that they own and interact with on a daily basis) that goes below the surface level of basic utilization.
I think this at the very least applies to smartphones, (potentially) desktop operating systems, and cars
Luke has a Doctorate in Linus wrangling
I think conversations of “x should be in school” is pointless unless you are going to discuss what gets cut out.
Do you want your kids in school 24 hours a day? Probably not. What about 12? 10?
Assuming you keep the hours the same, are you cutting band? Foreign languages? History? Math?
I think that kids have too much to do anyways and now they have voices demanding they do extra classes on computer literacy and tax law….
My lecturers, who have earned a fu*kin PhD don't know what they are teaching. I am in a bachelor's degree majoring in cybersec and my lecturers don't even know basic networking or anything.
Love Linus some times tho I feel like he has this idea that everyone is out to be as efficient and effective as possible and that’s not the case a lot of the time. Or maybe they choose to take advantage of that from time to time
virus containing emails typically come with zip files.
If you want to send anything cool you need to zip it, cab files, msi files, executables, binary files, loads of stuff gets blocked by email providers due to those kinds of attachments being considered "harmful".
I average 70 wpm, 90 when I try. everyone thinks I type fast, and I am amazed by how slow they type. if I lost 30 wpm from 70 I'd feel terrible.
Touch-typing is overrated. Sorry, Linus is just so fucking wrong. I'm typing this with two fingers. Left index, right middle (don't ask why, it just happens). And I'm fast, fast enough anyway.
Yes, if you have to hunt each letter, you're slow. But I don't, I don't even look at the keyboard.
There's a world between touch-typing and hunt-and-peck.
wait, hold on, I know that if you download stuff like 3D files from the web they come bundled in a .zip file. Wouldn't that be relevant to a designer?
but here's the thing, I didn't learn about compressed files in school, I googled it well over a decade ago when I was trying to pirate stuff :P so you can argue it's something you learn if you need it. But here's the other thing, every interaction you have with a computer where you learn something new gives you transferable skills that can aid you intuit future interactions with systems, makes you aware hos "this sort of thing works or may work" (in the case of compressed files you learn how files work) so is not just about .zip files. It's hard to know what what's relevant to know at the moment, but it never hurts to know, knowledge is power
5:10 I'm more or less with Linus on that one. It would be helpful if the average computer user knew what a Zip file is and how it's different from a regular folder (despite Windows presenting them more or less as the same thing).
HOWEVER the issue you're describing - opening an .exe file which requires libraries which were packaged within the same zip file - this is user error, even if the user never knew what a zip file is. Whenever you open an executable from a zipped file in windows, it screams at you that other files in this zipped folder may be required, so you should probably extract the while archive and then open the file.
This particular problem was not about computer literacy, but about reading with comprehension. Knowledge anybody should have by the time they are barely double-digit aged.
Now that you can "open" a zip file and look at the content, this is a lot more likely. I've accidentally done this not realizing I haven't unzipped something and was confused why some stuff weren't working quite right.
Back in the day where you must unzip before using the content, knowing the need and the how to unzip is a lot more common.
I got taught typing in school, but simultaniousely i find the posture of having your hands like that extremely uncomfortable on 99% of desks because i have un-naturally long fingers, so i developed this very weird hybrid way of typing inbetween pick n point and traditional typing, it always throws people off and i love it
To who does it matter to know what a zip file is?
Ehm, maybe all those who keep asking for help using a program which came zipped, those who claim they could not do task xyz because they could not use the files send to them, those students using wild and time consuming ways to share a folder.
It is so easy to learn the important basics and sooooooooooooo much time is wasted by those who refuse learning them. In any other field you would get kicked out if you'D refuse to learn the most basic stuff.
But even more important than zip files and typing are short cuts. Seeing so many students taking minutes to copy and paste stuff because they do not even know ctrl c kills me inside. Not because they are dumb, but because they waste their time.
I type 120wpm with “improper” technique.
Edit: okay more like 110 lol. Havent been practicing
I am Probably the weirdest Person In this Chat, I Type Far faster on my Mobile then on my Laptop, I Sometine use my Phone As a Wireless Keyboard.
2:01 I Disagree with this on a personal level. I can type relatively fast, but I am by no means a touch typist. I type with 2 fingers but do it speedily. I can't think any faster than I can type. If I typed any faster, I wouldn't be giving myself the time to think through what I'm actually writing. My output may be slower, but it will be of a higher quality.
I do think there should be a basic computer literacy class over one semester you must attend that teachers that basic fundamentals of using Windows and basic software. We had this in middle school and a class in highschool that took it a step further teaching us HTML. Yes this was 2016 and they were teaching from an HTML book from 1995, but, I still learned a lot that I'm happy to of learned at all. Speaking of extracting files, This is how I was exposed to 7zip in 6th grade. It's what all the computers had, and in our computer class it was one of the first things we were shown. I've used 7zip now all my life, and as a weirdo I love how it runs the exact same and can even run at all from Windows 95 all the way up to 11, with ancestors of 7zip also being available for DOS and Win 3.1. Sorry young GenZ with your winrars, 7zip is better. Better UI top to bottom as well