Addressing The Bonnie Problem: The Many Sides of Princess Bubblegum | Adventure Time Analysis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ต.ค. 2023
- There's been a lot of 'Princess Bubblegum bad' discourse on social media, so I had to throw my hat in the ring and rot my brain further because I actually think 'Princess Bubblegum... GOOD?!?' It's crazy but it's true. Let me know what you think below!
The Adventure Time spinoff / sequel series, Fionna and Cake was a masterpiece so I started gushing about it. Now I talk about the original show too.
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I feel like Bonny is meant to embody the best and worst in political leaders. She does prioritize the candy citizens above all else throughout most of the series, shes very responsible and always aware of consequences. Shes also overbearing and controlling, her sense of duty has brought her to some strange grey areas. I think to some extent if we got to know any other princess more intimately, things wouldn't be much different with them
This is a great comparison and I think you have a cool perspective with the political side being a huge influence.
@@Kev-D-OG thank you!
Not a problem at all! I appreciate you for commenting and continuing the conversation!@@hunterwillis3775
she also has slight "nazi scientist" - like tendencies
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People say they want morally grey characters but then can barely handle Princess Bubblegum
On a more serious note I feel a phrase that accurately summarises PB is "The road to hell is pathed with good intentions", PB's love for her people is what drives most of her greyest actions, spying on them and sabotaging other kingdoms to name a few
LITERALLY
My thoughts as well (though I suspect most of the people that say they want morally grey characters aren't the same people that hate how messed-up Pb is). Everyone has different things they like, some people are more into things like the earlier seasons of Adventure Time and some people are more into things like the later seasons.
And some people (like me) are into both, depending on mood. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"People say they want morally grey characters but then can barely handle Princess Bubblegum"
such a perfect summary of people who hate her lol
50% of PB haters are literally people who hate her because she rejected Finn, which isnt even a morally gray action of her.
She literally just didn't want to date a child and the fans think she's the bad guy... Okay...@@JoaoPedro-eq3hj
I hate it when people criticize her, not based on her nuanced actions, but on the fact that she allegedly "led Finn on" (like, dude, that would be pedophilia)💀
LITERALLY
To me she always treated Finn like she was playing with a little kid. She never treated him seriously and always said she was too old for him
Totally agree@@khaireese
Yeah PB always made it clear she wasn’t interested in that way for Finn. If anything I think her overall friendship with him stemmed from her wanting the brother she dint really get from Neddy.
I would also like to say most of her more drastic actions in the show could stem back to Gumbald. She doesn’t expect him to turn on her to that degree and when his actions raised suspicion, she was ready to find a way to solve it. She was essentially put in a difficult situation. Lose herself to the juice or pacify Gumbald. That level of trauma would explain a good bit of her suspicious and needing to be in constant control of everything.
"led finn on" is so crazy to say about a character who created a robot version of herself for a suitor who turned himself in a monster because she didnt love him basically
Considering how she grew up for centuries basically alone and without any sort of person to guide and nurture her, it makes sense that she turned out the way she did. Just look at Marceline without Simon in the vampire universe. PB could've turned out a LOT worse and it's a miracle she just falls more on the "unaware of the negative impacts of her actions" side, all in her misguided attempts at protecting her people.
And it actually took Flame Princess finally calling her out on her BS that gets her to reflect on the questionability of her actions, because no one ever did that for her growing up. And like you said, she does try to change for the better, even though it's still not a hundred percent.
She's one of the most complex and compelling characters in the show and it's a shame a lot of people don't have the media literacy to fully comprehend that as they like to reduce things to a basic "pErSoN bAaAaD because..."
Completely agree! Love the comparison with The Star Marceline being an example of what PB would've been, but I think a more apt comparison would be the Vampire King.
Generally, idk if PB can be blamed for turning Gumbald, cause he made the juice, used it on the other family members for no reason, and was about to use it on her and threatened her brother's life and she was a kid-
We also know she has no real way to reverse the effects, and we see that she continues to take care of Crunchy, Manfred, and Punchy even centuries later
Like she could've handled the situation better, but she was literally a kid who only knew what family guardians were via pictures from a dead world and she just wanted to maybe have that for herself, cause she literally had to raise herself and her brother since birth
Like be disgusted by what she does later all you want, but I do not agree that anything she did as a kid was "evil"
No one is born inherently evil. It is our surroundings and personal experiences that shape us as a person... and nothing is set in stone. People can change if they wish to change.
PB is no different. She is "human" in the sense that she has flaws. She's done bad things. She's changed. She acknowledges she did bad things. She's still growing as a person.
So all in all, I agree with this.
It's also very evident she outright can't undo the Dum Dum juice or else she'd have fixed Peppermint Butler instead of letting the new him grow up.
THANK YOU! I don't understand why everyone acts like she did it on purpose. She was defending herself from Gumbald and his own plot was turned against him.
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I completely agree! She had no idea about the ramifications of the juice and she had no knowledge of if she would ever come out of that situation. It was a very do or die moment and she not only protected herself, but also Neddy and everyone else from Gumbald.
PB is more or an overprotective mother than a dictator. Her desire to protect the kingdom manifested in paranoia, an obsession to keep watch everything inside and outside her kingdom, and to control the lives of the citizens.
Her only reference point was Needy, a being completely dependent on her. I think Cinamon Bun's situation showed PB that the candy people can be okay without her. And by the time of Obsidian she no longer seems to even live in the kingdom.
She's both. Honestly you see that with a lot of the god-king archetypes which she definitely fits into
Yes! She’s also been doing this for 800+ years so it makes sense why she is the way she is.
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Yeah! As time rolled on she realized that people can live their own lives and I think that shows immense growth. Love the idea of it all manifesting from paranoia as well btw, that's a great addition!
Super agree! CB becoming fully baked and living his own autonomous life was a catalyst for all candy folk.
I remember seeing a TikTok where someone mentions that everyone wants a complex and morally gray female character, but when they exists, they still complain that “oh she’s too bossy” “oh she’s too abrasive” “too rude” “too mean” “ a b*tch” and just a lot of other things. It’s why characters like PB, Korra, Mabel, and Katara, just to name a few, have so much hate behind them. It seems like female characters aren’t allowed to be written like human beings with complex emotions and personalities.
I think that sentiment is definitely a big thing. I personally can't imagine anyone hating Katara though because of the fandom behind Avatar constantly saying it's the greatest thing ever, but it just goes to prove your point further.
@@Kev-D-OGAt the time A:TLA was airing, I think there was this weird consensus on the internet that Katara was the worst member of the Gaang as a character. It was the heyday of Zutara shipping and a lot of people seemed so hung up on whether she'd end up with Zuko or Aang that the most interesting parts of her characterization and arc were often left on the wayside. Admittedly, it didn't help that a lot of her most compelling shades of gray didn't come into real fruition until Season 3 (there's a reason that the Ember Island Players version of Katara is portrayed the way she is). But either way, once the series was complete and people could trace her completed arc from "naive but hopeful wannabe waterbender" to one of the most powerful and driven, and thus potentially dangerous, characters in the world, without getting constantly waylaid into shipping wars, I think consensus shifted fairly quickly into the current recognition that Katara is one of the most complex and interesting characters in the show.
Add Rose Quartz/Pink Diamond to the list. People are really calling her worse than the other Diamonds when she did all she could to stop the colonization of Earth upon realizing the damage she was doing.
Agreed😮
@@animeotaku307 I think the way people feel about Pink Diamond and the other Diamonds is pretty much the same way people feel about Thanos and the High Evolutionary in Marvel movies, Thanos definitely caused much more harm and destruction but we hate the High Evolutionary much more because we have an insight of how badly his actions hurt the characters we know and love, people don´t hate the Diamonds that much because it feels like whenever they destroyed other life forms it was never personal, they were just doing what they thought they had to for the sake of their empire (besides we see them actually understanding how wrong they were, regretting it and making an effort to change and make up for that), but when Pink Diamond harmed the characters we were so fond of (Pearl, Bismuth, Spinel, Volleyball, Jasper, Steven in a way) it feels much more cruel because she knew what she was doing and she chose to do it, she could have fixed it but she didn´t because that wouldn´t be convenient for her
Bonnie is a fascinating character honestly. Learning about her is a roller coaster and by the end of it you're not entirely sure how you should feel about her. On one hand, she gets a lot better by the end, but on the other hand, YIKES was her past ROCKY. Her being effectively immortal also just gave her so much time to be awful before they start turning a new leaf, so I can see why some people refuse to forgive her.
I completely agree! I feel like seeing different people’s points of view on her is always interesting.
gonna be honest sure she gets better becuase of fins influence but she is still a dictator at the end
@@dindul3843 doesn't she end up retiring from princessdom to live lesbianly with Marceline come the distant lands series?
@@princequincy5421I doubt that, especially what happened to the candy citizens in the future. I mean yeah you can interpret she's trying to protect them from harm since the future is getting bleak but at the same time she robbed them from their freedom
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The Fionna & Cake series vicariously adds another layer to Bonnie’s character (more specifically in episode 6). We’re able to recontextualize PB’s motives through both Gary & the Candy Queen since they show her actions in a different perspective. The Candy Queen shows what it would be like if PB was the full on psychotic dictator that people claim she is since she’s portrayed as a mad scientist with her own candy mutant army, while Gary’s pastries characters recontextualizes PB’s relationship with the candy kingdom by showing it as a creative passion project
The way that people say the Candy Queen is better than PB simply baffles me.
@@JoaoPedro-eq3hjcandy queen literally conjoined 3 banana guards & attached mechanical parts to them to make a rudimentary plane-like machine, she was worse with the crown’s insanity in one episode than ice king ever was tbh
@JoaoPedro-eq3hj I like Candy Queen and PB both. I have the problem that CQ is just a variant and not an actual character, but Bonnie has becoming one of my favourites slowly.
Let's also not forget CQ was a result of Winter King essentially cursing PB with all that ice crown insanity. Which is just a new level of messed up.
To be conflicted about her is perfectly fine but to pretend that a character’s past actions should be held against them forever despite the growth the character’s had is straight up ignorant.
I completely agree!
+ Adventure Time is a show that covers more than 1000 of history with actually quite a few characters being alive through all of those years, with that being taken into consideration, I think she deserves forgiveness for the awful things she made because we, as humans who mostly live 80 years, do not know the scenario where a person has more than 1000 years to change and evolve and don’t know how much you could change, so yeah basically that’s probably why people have trouble giving PB a chance because they forget to put things in context.
it's all based on dependability. what kind of past actions the character did, the kind of growth they went through, and whether or not they're consistently sticking to that growth. in PB's case, while it's true she does care for her kingdom, her methods of protecting it can get VERY questionable, and even unnecessarily over-the-top.
Maybe the #1 Princess Bubblegum defender here, commenting to say: BEAUTIFULLY put. She’s had some incredibly low lows as a person, but at the end of the day, she’s literally an immortal piece of gum trying her best to grapple with the crushing weight of sapience. Personhood is a learned practice, and no one was there to nurture her at the beginning, so of course she’s going to have a warped code of ethics for a good long while. I especially love your perspective on her childhood with Neddy and how needing to have someone to be “responsible for” arose out of very early developmental conditioning. It’s like, since she had to fulfill a nurturing role for someone else since literally the day she was born, she was never able to learn the interpersonal skills necessary to have a healthy relationship with someone who wasn’t dependent on her. PB is such a fascinating character, and I’m so glad to know others feel the same!
I think i'm the only #1 PB Hater here
Thanks so much! It's nice to know that I got my point across to the #1 Princess Bubblegum defender.
@@Raddish-IS-Raddmost people hate PB so unlikely
I have never seen PB as if she was considering her subjects as "things", but has someone who was over-protective of what was in the end "her babies" and her real fault is not wanting to let them grow out of fear they would hurt themselves and being over-protective of any external threats. In that aspect you could almost draw a parallel with Finn's mom.
It's also worth noting that even in her past when she was more immature, her gaol was always to make a better place and she already had a sense of justice and what it is to abuse power, when she met Finn's previous incarnation.
LOVE LOVE LOVE the Minerva parallel. Like oh my goddddddddd that is so good. I also really like the connection you have with Shoko in here. Super sick!
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Yeah that's true
They painted Peebs as this "eternal babysitter" to her own kingdom in the earlier seasons of the show...
@@Justin-Hill-1987 now they don't anymore
I'm fine with people not liking her but my issue is how so often you'll hear people go, "I want to see complicated girl characters in shows!" Then when we get those complicated characters they ALWAYS go, "Man I hate [girl character] Why'd they do that that's so rude. No it doesn't matter that they're growing or that they help sometimes they did this bad thing!1!!!11" You're not ready for complicated girl characters friend.
Obviously not everyone who dislikes pb is that person and I never assume that someone who dislikes pb is that person. However when they go over to finn, or any other guy main character, and talk about how they love how he changed and grew as a person through the show it starts to rub me the wrong way. Finn's done some super fucked up shit as well, he's NO WHERE near the level of pb. . . . yet, but he manipulated his gf into beating the shit out of an elderly man who's in a constant state of mania just cuz he was getting off to it. I don't see people constantly talking about how he did this and how it makes him a bad person.
Also no I don't think finn's a bad person cuz of this just saying there's a hell of a lot less finn haters using the same logic as certain pb haters.
You’re absolutely spitting when it comes to people being hypocritical when it comes to PB. She’s done horrendous things, but when other characters have overlaps, they should be called out as well.
I think the point is that Finn almost immediately receives negative consequences from his actions, as opposed to PB. He deceived his girlfriend - as a result, she left him. He was inattentive to the Finn-sword - as a result he loses it and it becomes destroyed. At the same time, what does PB get for directly threatening the lives of all residents of the Flame Kingdom? It’s okay, at the end of the episode she achieves what she wanted by destroying their weapons. What does she pay for imprisoning the entire Treetrunks wedding? Absolutely nothing. That's why she pisses me off so much more than Finn - because the show doesn't punish her for being an asshole.
@oxyonyx I agree with you on the marriage, however she did lose something due to threatening the lives of the flame kingdom citizens. She cut off her surveillance system for all of ooo. Yeah she shouldn't of had it in the first place but she's still losing something that would help her continue to do wrong.
exactly complicated and not perfect female characters i alway seen get shit on relentlessly
@oxyonyx also sorry to come back to this but she also left one of the weapons up so she only partially got what she wanted.
The one thing that bothers me about people decrying Bonnie is that they believe she is mostly responsible for messing up Finn's emotional growth regarding romance.
While its a fact she did not properly establish boundaries or made her feelings about him clear because of her work distracting her or jist generally failing to read people emotionally, those are consistent flaws she has towards everyone, including her own ex/girlfriend.
Jake was actually the one who usually had a hand in, if not being the direct cause of Finn's relationship problems most of the time.
COMPLETELY agree. Jake tries to lead Finn in specific directions way more than PB when it comes to romance.
But when she turned 13, she seemed willing to date Finn, but when she reverted back to being 18 appearance wise, she kinda just dumped him and forgot about the relationship like it never happened.
Just came off as cold and almost sociopathic
@@animefan2454 I thought it was pretty obvious that the change is not just "appearance"
the parallel between the perception of bonnie and rose quartz is fascinating because it shows peoples ability to process and resolve between anothers actions
Completely agree. These two characters get DRAGGED constantly as well
Honestly I like them both, they feel real(despite being a gazillion year olds) they're not bad people at their core really, they both wanted to do good and tried to fix where they went wrong. You could argue that Pink being a brat and accidentally breaking her pearl makes her bad, but tell me, do you expect a kid that has been overlooked her entire life and treated more like a pet than an equal to be emotionally stable? I don't think so, she learned from watching the humans and decided to go against her entire race's culture, sure it ended in a war but that's what happens when you try to introduce a way of living that's extremely opposing to the dictatorship they're used to. Making mistakes doesn't make them bad people, and having been bad/selfish in the past doesn't make them bad, the fact they cared enough to recognize where they were wrong and tried to fix it shows they're good in my opinion
it's even worse with Rose Quartz, because people saw her character arc in REVERSE.
She was a horrible person at one point, but she eventually became better. Everyone saw her at her best first, including Steven. but as the series progresses we get shown/told her past and the consequences of said actions. People just fail to realize that we were not given her story in chronological order.
I think it's scary how such a large amount of people are completely illiterate when it comes to media and nuance.
@@Taevarth that logic they use doesn't even make sense, given that in SU Future they talk to her FIRST pearl, they even say one only saw her as someone who couldn't change and the other only saw her as someone practically perfect that for some reason wanted to change, they fused and got to see and experience eachother's memories and both understood her, two characters literally explained her to the audience and they still don't get it
I know it might be a little oversimplistic, but I think the fact that both PB and Rose are relatively tradtionally feminine presenting made people hold them to higher scrutiny. They're both "strong female characters" in the truest sense that they get to be flawed, make cataclysmic choices that literally affect the whole world, and learn and grow past their flaws.
I hate how much Rose gets dragged in particular. She made mistakes, but she did her best and liberated so many gems along the way. I'm sorry for crying misogyny, but I think male characters who follow similar arcs of rebellion and messy wartime leadership don't get nearly as much flack.
Idk if I’m wording this right but I never compared Bonnie’s moral compass to a regular human’s moral compass because she’s literally an elemental mutation that made everything she has. I really don’t see a being like that understanding human morals in the same way we do. Just like you said PB is essentially playing the sims and if you’ve ever seen anyone play sims you know they don’t exactly treat their sims the best.
PB also didn't grow up in a human society, she basically raised herself and her entirely dependent sibling in the middle of a hostile radioactive wasteland. Her only concept of what human society even looked like she got through old books and magazines. It's hard for me to really judge her on a human moral scale when she isn't human, never lived in or even near a human society, and her only references to humanity she has are the remnants of a world that burned to the ground before she was born. She did have Marceline for perspective, but she only had a few years of life before the war and didn't like to talk about her past. And based on flashbacks from Obsidian Bonnie probably had a more sound moral compass than Marcy did when they first knew each other. I feel like to judge her actions too harshly would be saying that we just expect her to have developed all of the same morals that we have in a vacuum, despite the vastly different environment she has existed in and the fact that she literally isn't a human being.
I completely understand where you’re coming from. With Bonnie growing up completely isolated pretty much, it adds a lot to her different morals.
this is the point i try to get across, that she’s literally an immortal gum-elemental & was born from a literal hive-mind, spent the first hundred years of her life in total survival-mode in post-apocalyptic ooo,
the first time she created other gum-people, they were as intelligent as her & immediately tried to usurp + lobotomize her after just one conflict of interest, so it makes total sense why she wouldn’t make intelligent gum-people ever again,
she’s also considerably more intelligent than even the smartest humans, rediscovering & applying every field of science literally by herself without the academic institutions that humans need to even do minor research,
her experiences don’t relate to any typical or atypical human experience and she’s honestly more benevolent & carefree than someone who dealt with all of that should be
I think cinnamon bun, leaving the candy kingdom and growing as a person illustrates that princess bubblegum coddles the candy people a bit too much instead of letting them grow into more emotionally mature people
I also think that Princess bubblegum putting a spy camera inside cinnamon buns, body to spy on the fire kingdom was messed up, and that having him as a honest diplomat would be better for peaceful relations
I definitely agree! That's why I personally enjoyed what the show did with his character a lot. It allowed different aspects of the world to evolve while showing character growth in many ways.
I growing up, i adored Princess Bubblegum. Growing up as a girl, it was very mind-blowing to see a princess be very so intelligent, self -reliant, and somehow be so goofy. Unfortunately, life happens and I couldn't watch every episode after season 7, did i missed until i had a chance to watch watch the show.
My favorite PB moment was when she let herself into the tre house to collect taxes from Finn and Jake. I just found that so funny. They dont even live in the Candy Kingdom. Why would they owe taxes? 😂
I’m glad you enjoyed her character so much! If you have the time, I’d definitely recommend you give the rest of the show a watch because she gets a ton of great moments as the show goes on.
They work for her so yeah... Taxes
@caesarm8539 does she pay them? I mean I suppose you could easily say she does I think. I mean the episode where they spend all their gold to me had a strong implication that we as the audience hardly ever see the financial side of everything, probably cause it would be boring.
@caesarm8539 Thinking about it more, I find the idea that PB pays Finn and Jake and then periodically steals a bit of it back as taxes really amusing.
“Taxation without representation is tyranny”
I don't really blame her for the war. Yes she created Gumbald, but it was Gumbald who invented the dumdum juice. Gumbald who decided to escalate things from their arguements to using the dumdum juice. Gumbald who used it on the Aunt and Cousin for absolutely no even remotely justifiable reason, and then PB was just defending herself when it hit Gumbald. You can argue that she shouldn't have left him that way for so long, but he got what he deserved imo.
Then towards the end of the show, he uses Finn's attempt to broker peace to try and trick him into hitting PB with the dumdum juice again. And then in the finale, he tries again and the Aunt has to trip him to foil his betrayal.
There was no making peace with Gumbald. He is the one that escalated things to using the dumdum juice and he refused at every opportunity to accept peace. PB is perfect. PB made mistakes, PB has done some very messed up things. But when it came to the war specifically, I see Gumbald as more at fault for it than her, because there was no way to actually make peace with him. I VERY MUCH DOUBT that if PB had cured him shortly after the initial incident that he would have had a change of heart and become a good person, because we see him being just, the worst, at ever opportunity throughout every portion of his life.
Also she has no way to reverse dum dum effects, otherwise she'd have helped Pepbut
Honestly, you cooked with this. Literally 100% amazing comment.
I don’t get why people blame her for creating Gumbald. She just wanted family and Needy is hardly a real family tbh. She was alone and probably grew up at a relatively chaotic era.
I completely agree! I think the reason people blame her is because she made him into a candy person after, but even then it was Gumbald who was gonna do the same thing to her.@@opatzo9165
She's like if the Diamonds family metaphor from SU had a LOT more room to be incredibly fleshed out. But still gets oversimplified online.
Absolutely amazing comparison.
13:11 It wasn't mentioned in video, but I've heard people take the scene just before finn sneaks in as an example of her heinous actions, when she has small little things with faces, thats she cuts the arms off and reattaches. Which is the most out of context of the show thing I've seen. Multiple times Jake and BMO have been seen making food that they actually eat, with faces, BMO has literally made a sentient sandwich with the intent of it being consumed. And what hurts candy people varies in the first place, like when the marshmallow kids burn their bodies and even offer the burnt skin to Finn for eating. The candy people even offer pieces of themselves to bring her back to her adult form. In universe this is not some "incredibly fucked up thing" it's a normality and is portrayed as such.
Great point! I do think it is still kinda wild that she did that in the first place, however you are correct with this being something that other characters have done as well. Focusing it on just her actions makes it seem hypocritical that other characters can get away with it.
And the thing is when she cuts their limbs, those little candy creatures keep smilling innocently, they clearly dont feel any pain.
I always find it odd that people will always bring that up but they never bring up the time when Finn manipulated miniature versions of himself and his friends, who have thoughts and feelings, by having them in a forced romance like Tiny Finn with PB, FP, and LR, or the time Jake, Lady Rainicorn, her family, and even Finn were eating humans.
If people are mad about that, why not the other characters that had the same?
Characters like her are fascinating to me. Every time we see them we learn something new. She wasn't just a fairy tale princess, she had layers beyond what most in her role would be given, and I love that 😊
Completely agree! She went WAY beyond the original princess stereotype we all think of for the better.
I always viewed Bonnie as an authortain figure but never a dictator wanting control but as a leader who thinks they are doing what is best. I think her extreme intelect and care paired with her inital views as of people as less compentent and more vulnerable lead to a very "I'm doing this for your own good vibe" and she has had to learn how to trust others' autonomy and not self-aggrandize into a savior all the time
You definitely are onto something with the "I'm doing this for your own good" angle. It makes it seem as though she is parenting them more than treating them as lesser.
Love her or hate her, she is one of the best characters in the series
Absolutely!
it's just so funny to see that the lot of people that instantly brand her as evil from the whole rattleballs bit are the same people who will panic over an AI gaining sentience and would be more decisively quick on destroying them the moment they see a robot getting too violent.
Not to mention the whole candy people being spied situation, cause in that one episode where she and Finn leave them alone for some time, they were in absolute chaos and clearly needs supervision. People can say that she intentionally made them stupid, while that is valid, it is also to be noted that there is only so much she could do and consider, since making certain Candy people smart enough had them turn evil with just some time after their existence.
Adding in how she made Goliad who can live forever but not make herself immortal brings you the question "why can't she do that?", it implies how there is so much of what she can actually do, which is either the life she made is like this (naive candy folk) or its like that (evil creatures that seeks to seize whatever), it tells you of how difficult and intricate the whole creation of life thing is and with how her history of needing to protect Neddy at her spawning and her loneliness in a post-apocalyptic world where she doesn't have much to really talk to tells you of how she is always trying to do things better and get better as she had no one to teach her any of that which led to the chain of events that resulted in her actions
People will always want complex characters until they are very subtle in the moral grayness of their character, and the lot of people that absolutely vilify her are obviously those who can't see through the many layers and just want to write/say about them in black and white, never ever even trying to consider the good they've done cause they just expect that from someone without understanding their background/history
I completely agree! I think a lot of people especially view her in a negative light because of her being introduced as someone so seemingly innocent, which then makes them overanalyze everything as completely evil.
@@Kev-D-OGyes this! I've seen ppl overanalyse every single word that comes out of her mouth
It’s always good to see someone who’s able to understand the nuance of a complicated character
Thanks so much! This was my first attempt to do a crazy deep dive in my opinion so they really means a ton to hear.
@@Kev-D-OG I'm really enjoying your thoughtful analyses of Adventure Time content. It's very nice to see your thoughts on the show's themes!
I'm glad! I got a lot more in the vault cause of how long I've thought of this show so the ball is gonna keep rolling for sure.
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@@Kev-D-OG I'm keeping my eye out!
She may be morally grey but I wouldn't go so far as to call her a monster like many others seem to do. I like that she's a flawed character, everyone in this show is. Even Finn and Jake aren't shining beacons of morality, they've made some pretty bad mistakes, too. We should all enjoy when a character actually has some depth and nuance to them
I completely agree!
I think her being a god, scientist and dictator vs her being motherly and a passion project I think is her reputation vs how she sees herself. Her subjects and others see her as a dictator but she sees herself as a motherly creator.
I like this angle of the different perspectives for sure. I feel like everyone has a different idea of who PB is and focuses on just one viewpoint.
I mean that really isn’t good justification I’m sure hitler saw himself as a good person too.
that works
She's not a god by any meaning of the word but sure she DOES thinks that she is one
@@CainDB even that banana guard
Thank you for this video!! I’ve always loved PB and I’m sick of hearing nothing but slander about her character. Even from the first few seasons of the show it was so interesting to see her emotional disconnect from the outward personality she displayed. It always felt that she was learning to understand true empathy throughout the series. She felt love for all of her citizens as she was their maker but she slowly starts to understand them and their individual struggles as the story progresses. I think this is largely due to her closeness to Finn and Marceline. Perhaps there is something about how they are both at least partially human and helped PB grow in her humanity. For me, her and Marceline eventually resuming their relationship was a key moment of growth for Bonnie and Marie’s characters. They broke up due to Pb’s emotional disconnect and Marcie’s unresolved trauma. Marcy mellowed out as she reconciled with her past and in that time PB started to realize that she needed to be more understanding of feelings. Emotions even if they seem irrational are valid. I love them both as characters and a couple lol, I have a lot of feelings about them. I’m just glad to see someone recognize what a compelling and dynamic character PB is since I hear so much “Marceline deserved better”
I’m glad you enjoyed it so much! I think PB is a character with a lot to dig into so I’m glad that people are approaching her with some more positivity.
Yes I've always loved her and I'm her defender. I know she did messed up stuff but I love her character and all. I hate how everybody hates her. The fact is if she was a guy no one would hate her. I love complex female characters
One thing I like, and this is my interpretation and not written in stone, is that in Distant Worlds when we see her she doesn't seem to have the crown, and when we last see the crown in Together Again, Peppermint Butler is wearing it. I kind of interpret that as her leaving the kingdom behind and moving on with her life and passing on the torch, rather than continuing to need control.
Distant lands, not worlds
sure but then in the 1000+ era we see the prizeball guardians. i doubt pep made those. she took back the throne at some point
This is actually great because in the 1000+ docs we see that she has a new crown! So this could definitely be the case!
@@pumpkin_pants3828 or she was called to assist
PB has the mother mentality of "I brought you into this world, and I will take you right back out of it"
Absolutely, but she changes as the show goes on for sure.
Nobody talks about the trama pb must have experienced creating a family and then those people who with all her knowledge of family’s were supposed be protectors but only wanted to hurt her. All her choices likely steam from that fear
I completely agree!
I see PB's character as she starting out seeing the entire world as a equation, everything in it including other living beings are mostly just numbers to her and anything the doesn't work needs to be discarded (since creating life she only sees them as the formulas she used, just cause and results, she clearly cares but mostly that's overruled by the logical) she wants community since she misses that from the mother gum but she only sees it the logical sense of create companionship, manage companionship, protect companionship community (like you said it stems from her relationship to Needy and what happened to Gumball) and as the show goes on we see how that keeps hurting her relationships (Breaking up with Marcy, getting thrown out of the Candy kingdom, etc) and here is where she starts to learn others are equals to her, deserve equal treatment and that she can't answer everything with what she thinks right.
I LOVE the way you phrased this. Her thinking of the world as a question she has to answer and eventually coming to realize that some things don't have definitive results is so true to her character.
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I like PB and understand if not a small amount. She is definitely flawed but has depth as a character which helps me feel empathy towards her like so many of the other characters from Adventure Time.
I agree! Her character has so much to explore so I love seeing people give their thoughts on her.
Bonnie is a complex character, she’s done bad things in her past, very messed up stuff, but in her present and future she learns and tries to be better, I think a good moment of her character comes in “lady and peebles” in which we see her care and her brutality, she listens to lady’s problems at the start of the episode and is constantly worried about her health as the episode continues on, the whole reason the episode even occurs is because Finn and Jake go missing so PB goes with lady to scope out the place and save the boys, she even drags them all back to the candy kingdom herself after defeating Ricardio, all of these things show the care she has for her friends, then there’s her fight with Ricardio where she beats the shit out of him like a boss, using his weaknesses against him, it shows a lot of combat prowess on PB’s end, she not only has brains but can hold her own one on one, the way she manages to take him down in seconds is impressive, it’s also scary how she just tears into this dude in a matter of moments (then again he did poison her friends and hurt her pregnant gal pal), but returning to her care for others, one of the more memorable moments I remember from this episode is that she took care of the ik and gave him a new heart, if bonnie was “candy h*tler” she would’ve left Simon to die in that place, hell just leaving him there probably would’ve put an end to her kidnapping problems, but instead she chooses to help him despite him wronging her on multiple occasions, I feel like people forget she literally saved this guys life despite the Shit he put her through, if bonnie was completely ruthless she would’ve let that man rot there
Lady and Peebles was such a great episode for her character! She was not only a daring adventurer, but someone who showed compassion to even villains.
@@Kev-D-OG legit lady and Peebles does so much for PB in her characterisation, I don’t understand why people don’t bring it up in favour for her, she’s such an interesting character to study and understand, we see her start off as a sweet princess, then we see the depths of her character and what she has been capable of in her past, then we see her in the present pulling back from being so strict, learning to let go and understand her citizens are there own people independent of her, they don’t need her constantly keeping surveillance on them
I adore Bonnie. She is not a very good person for most her life, but it feels so good seeing a character who is set up as a mother figure from birth handle it terribly. She does her best based on what she thinks is practical, and when she acts callously or selfishly it’s because she hasn’t ever felt that she has the option to give anyone else control or make decisions based on anything other that strategic practicality. She’s been keeping herself and others safe since she was a baby with no guidance and had to fight for her life the one time she tried to be taken care of, so when her friends, partners and subjects tell her she’s wrong, it feels like a horrible insult to her. She’s worked so hard to become a person, to survive, to form a family, to keep them safe, all by herself, her indignation blinds her. When you’re alone except for people who are younger, dumber, needier, or a threat, it’s got to be hard to listen to people and not see your opinion as being inherently above theirs. She seems stuck up because of her god complex, but it makes her deeply insecure and causes her to throw herself into her work, because she has such an incredibly high standard to meet. She’s lived for a thousand years without partnership, and she’s had to make the right decisions for so many people for so long that she’s become stunted and numb to the morality of her actions. She’s exhausted. So many people see her as this larger than life feminine ideal; the fair, loving princess, the wise older sister, the life-giving goddess. It makes it so satisfying to see the amount of terrible flaws that subvert every trope she’s placed in by other characters.
It's honestly refreshing to listen to this kind of video about PB, because most of the time people just usually read her off as bad guy right off. I stand in the side of PB not being a villain, she's more complex then people give her credit with all the things she experience in her past. I can see why she is what she is in the show before her character development.
Without Bonnie's tyranny, Ooo would've fallen long ago to either Gumbald, The Lich, The Bathboy Gang, The Mushroom War mutants, Flame King, or Ice King's shenanigans.
PB reminds me of the Pink Diamond debate. We see character development in both of these people (Pink Diamond in reverse) and ignore that growth is part of being a person. A lot of people want to cling to what character did that were bad, and ignore how that character knows. Both of these women acknowledge that what they did was awful, and they make changes to their actions, ways of thinking, and do their best to make up for it in other ways. They can't take back what they did, though. I think it's a shame a person can't seem to be forgiven for their bad actions. I struggle with forgiving myself for mistakes I made while I was growing up, and it helps to see these truly flawed characters on screen because like people, we're all flawed.
COMPLETELY agree. They get dragged online constantly, especially by people who have never even seen the shows.
I have this head canon about Bonnie and Lemongrab. When he becomes in charge due to her shrinking in age, and seemingly throws people in the dungeon for no reason is an exact reflection of what she did to him off camera when she made him.
In my head, she became frustrated with Lemongrab acting strange and would often resort to throwing him in the dungeon as a form of "time out". I imagine the duration is his solitary confinement only increased over time as she became more and more frustrated, locking him away for increasing amounts of time with each infraction.
Then when he becomes in charge, he's only acting that way because it's what she, as ruler, did to him and he's projecting that anger onto everyone else.
I could easily see Bonnie doing this to him given her tyrannical past behavior and, in my head, it's a clear explanation of why he's so messed up and why Lemongrab2 is so kind and caring, where he's cold and heartless as a result of her past abuse towards him.
This is really great! It’d be perfect for him to mirror her actions because he thinks so highly of her as well.
@@Kev-D-OG and us as the viewer not knowing their past are like "why is he so mean? Like, 1000 years dungeon?? That's ridiculous!" But seeing as she g*nocided the rattle balls, I could honestly see her throwing him in the dungeon for years at a time so she can focus on her other projects and come back to "studying" Lemongrab later.
Even as a child, she HAD to be in charge, and figure everything out for herself and a dependent brother. That left to no margin for error; anything that is a threat to the order she created for the things she loves she is responsible for stopping. At 800 years old and never having the luxury of being a slacker, it is hard for her to tolerate foolish, childish mistakes around her. PB is great, but far from perfect. Overprotective Mother, Creator/Protector Goddess, and Scientist all at once. That is a hard job. And how good is this series of 11 min cartoons that I am a grown ass man with this strong of opinion on this?
I love the multilayered approach you gave to her at the end to parallel the dictator, goddess, friend thing at the beginning. Super sick!
Reading (watching?) Comprehension an all time low, ppl don't understand the point of a character arc is character start at a very flawed low place and they work their way through to overcoming those flaws and becoming a better person, they can't just keep picking the first half of the show like that's her whole static character and that's all she is.
They also try to use comparing morality as "Well if I was her-" ignoring the fact she's not a normal human, she's a living pile of gum who created an entire species in a lab (deattaching her even more of living beings) and has to face attacks to her/her kingdom weekly.
I completely agree! Most of AT’s cast starts at a low and isolated point but as the show continues they grow closer to one another and grow together and individually.
i love bonnie bc it shows her at her best and at her worst. and it shows how people can change.
Totally agree!
The fact that flame princess still helped her....
Yes! It shows that even after all the terrible stuff she did to her, that she trusts her and considers her someone to side with.
Bonnie is my favorite character in adventure time! She's definitely a very interesting character. I think for a long time she viewed the candy people as extensions of herself & also dumb idiot babies she has to coddle. Actually, it reminds me of the tiny little people from that one episode, "All The Little People". She doesn’t exactly see them as real people at first.
Bonnie is definitely very interesting, one of the best characters in the series. I can understand why someone wouldn't like her, but personally I find her fascinating. I really like her because a lot of times I am conflicted on, because a lot of times I don’t know what I feel about her. There's a viseral discomfort I feel with her sometimes, and I LOVE that. I like it when I'm unsure of how I feel about a character, or I feel multiple contrary things at once with them. That, to me, makes a character really facinating.
Glad to know you enjoyed her character so much! I love the connection you made to the episode "All The Little People" cause I definitely think there's something there for sure. And that sense of feeling unsure is SOOO great.
I feel like there's some clear eras to PB that have very notible shifts in how she acts, lives, and thinks based on how she probably felt like she needed to adapt.
There's her childhood era.
Functionally an Orphan, surviving in a bandit and wasteland ridden mess while she builds a home for herself and her disabled brother.
The mostly unseen Warlord era, the Green Banana Guards were likely there since before the Candy Kingdom was just starting to be built. With the Rattleballs arrival and destruction seeming to mark the edge of that era's end.
The Bath Boy Gang appear to *potentially* be one of her last remaining external threats in the earlier portion of this era when she befriends Shoko.
Bubbly Damsel era, which is just partly concluded by the introduction of Goliad. Most known enemies are gone for whatever possible reasons, held back, or are now allies due to political treaties.
PB probably lived mostly exactly like we saw throughout seasons 1, 2 without any major drama.
But also had enough political cout or overall military threat that Flame King would begrudgenly take back Phoebe and not proceed make another attempt to harm her again when Peebs made him take his daughter back.
Then Overbearing Mom + Cold War + Big Brother Is Watching era. Which starts after nearly dying at the hands of the Lich. *None* of her survelience stuff even seemed to have been implied to have ever existed *before* they were introduced.
Which I think is most likely the fallout of her being traumatized.
I love the idea of splitting her character into eras! It's a great way of looking through her arc.
I feel like a lot of people think about Bonnie as thought she's a human living in our world ruling over human subjects and suppressing their freedoms. But she isn't human, she has never lived in a human society, and her subjects are also distinctly not human. That doesn't mean they don't deserve rights, but it does mean that they have different wants, needs, and ways of thinking than a human would have in the same situation. Comparing her to any real world leader/nation just feels incredible apples to oranges to me because real world leaders aren't nigh-immortal beings who grew up and lived their whole lives outside of human society who then went on to literally create their subjects and oversee the building of their nation over hundreds of years, with said subjects ranging from pretty close to human intelligence to a good bit below.
FINALLY, an unbiased video. I feel so satisfied. I hate how people constantly argue how "PB is evil" "no, PB just does cruel things for the greater good" "no she's actually moral gray" but people never listen to eachother in these arguments. Your video presented a more open prespective on the matter showing us why her complexity allows for far greater interpretation than you might expect at first glance, or even a few glances. Thank you so much!
I'm glad you enjoyed the video so much! I really wanted to show that there's more to her than just being bad or good, so I'm glad the point got across.
So
She's evil
@@draxxprime7608 the world is complicated, there isnt "just good or just bad". You totally missed the point ☠️
@@unluckypanda5448 So
She's evil
Cuz her actions speak for itself
Not my fault you can't comprehend that
@@draxxprime7608 it would be better to understand motivations of a person before drawing conclusions based on actions alone.
think of the trolley problem. you can get your hands dirty trying to mitigate damages or let something terrible happen so you can defend yourself with "i wasn't involved"
when someone else is late to work you would probably think "this person is the kind of person that's always late" but when YOU are late to work you will always find an excuse. "oh the traffic was busy today" or "i just couldn't find the keys!" the situation is the same but when it's you, you'll naturally try to defend yourself so you'll take intentions into account.
if a person broke into your home and you were scared for life, you could kill them in defense. does that make you a murderer? you murdered a person after all! but hold on, "it was in self defense"
not everything is immediately obvious or black and white. being close minded and getting stuck on "either good or evil" will get you nowhere, i believe it's not a very mature way of thinking. do you agree with me now? if not, why?
I definitely think that a big part of the hate Bubblegum gets comes down to misogyny. If a male character was portrayed with similar complex layers and grey areas, i feel that many people would be calling the character deep and interesting instead of evil and trash
COMPLETELY agree
Here we go 🙄
Everyone who calls Bubblegum the villain of the show are strange to me because… the Lich is right there guys, his whole goal is the extinction of all life.
Bubblegum is just a ruler, sure a harsh and sometimes questionable one but she’s willing to try and coexist with others.
I like having characters who have a bit more nuance and depth than just superficial on the surface, everyone has depth to their character. It’s all up to perception and perspective.
Tbh, the same people who hate on PB are the same people who hate on Steven Universe. And neither really give good reasons bc they only look at one part of the show rather than the ENTIRETY of both shows.
Um, could you elaborate please?
@DrawciaGleam02 long story short, pb haters and Steven universe haters are wrong bc they haven't seen the entirety of Steven universe nor adventure time
COOK. I actually brought that up in the script but cut it because I didn't think it was entirely related. Glad to see you thought the same!
@@Kev-D-OG Nice to see more SU fans though :)
Yeah! You might not be able to see it in the background, but I have the End of an Era artbook behind me all the time @@pinklemons7254 😅
Actually you CAN absolutely have both "passion project/job" or "the candy people are sentient beings", and that is very much the point, in m eyes. Her arc is about learning to let others have an identity outside of her, and for herself, having an identity outside taking care of others. She loves and cares for her candy people but she also has control issues, not made any better by the fact, in her own eyes, sometimes, the candy people don't have autonomy or full sentience, because she DID make them and views them so rationally. But as she learns time and time again they DO, she grows herself, and learns to let go of them a bit, and become her own person outside of them as well. Her duality is best captured by the two major important figures in her life in her early years; her brother, who she came into the world taking care of and had to protect, versus her uncle, who ended up turning on her and trying to kill her. She takes two lessons from these events; that she has no identity outside of taking care of others, and must take care of others. And two, that those she loves and care for can and will turn on her in an instant. This comes together in a sense for a need of control, and an ever-watchful eye, both to make sure her people are safe and that they won't turn on her like her uncle.
This is an amazing breakdown! I love the way you put her backstory into the present effortlessly here.
Thank you!@@Kev-D-OG
All sides of her are the real her. There is no one aspect of a person that's the "real" version of them. People are messy, complex, and contradictory. If someone feels this to be a "problem," all that tells me is that that person doesn't have a particularly developed sense of nuance.
I completely agree! Adventure Time is great because the characters feel so multilayered and real.
How DARE a woman character be a bad person!!!!! 😡😡/S
The /s has me dead 😭
It’s actually funny to me on how often I’ve encountered online and in the real world who just cannot fathom the idea of an individual woman being capable of malice. To them, it seems like woman are a hive minded collective incapable of wrong doing. Even mildly suggesting otherwise is perceived by those people as a “misogynistic attack” on women as a whole. Ironically, this is such as a sexist mindset, as it’s denying women their individuality
i'm glad this video exist, you dont have to like her, but saying she's the worst really devalues the story of Adventure Time as a whole. i wouldn't call her a complete hero, but she's not the enemy. i like where they went with Bonnie, she could have just been a sweet diabetic blob of innocence, but she cuts much deeper than that.
I completely agree! Making her have these layers makes her infinitely more interesting imo
Bonnie is so great, and it's so cool that even when has done villainous actions, the characters still look up to her and will reach for her when they need help, because they know she's protective and will prioritize the safety of her friends and kingdom without hesitation.
I also think some people are unable to fully gasp her situation and understand her perspective. She was on her own in a deserted place in the early stages of her life and taught herself how to live and what a civilization should look like, being a piece of gum not fully aware of human values. It had to be a lot of trial and error, and most of the flashbacks shown of these errors dramatize what actually happened, as its a common narrative tool in AT.
It did take her to hit rock bottom in order to realize her kingdom was functional and her citizens were actually individuals and not just Sims, but then she actively tried to be better and let go of her control over them.
Im a PB defender because of how complex her character is. Her and Marceline and Simon a trio full of complexity ajr hardship that aligns so well with one another.
You're absolutely spitting.
amazing video! i think Bonnie is a rich character and i live for this analysis. for me, PB slander lacks cognitive flexibility and media literacy lol.
I think another crucial aspect of Bonnie's character worth mentioning is The Scientist. To understand that, it's important to position Bonnie's existence within the universe of the show. What I mean is, starting from the moment she was born (or spawned), PB entered fresh into a world where most life on Earth was just wiped out in a doomsday apocalypse. From the few clips we've seen of PB's early moments, as well as what Ooo was like in those early years fresh out of the Mushroom War, we can surmise that PB (and Neddy) lived in conditions of scarcity and constant danger. Kind of like Marceline, PB is no stranger the calamitous world of Ooo. However, unlike Marceline who is a survivor and has seen the before and after, PB acts as a kind of observer. From early stages of curiosity and wonder, PB embarks on a personal journey to understand the world around her, devoting centuries to research, experimentation, analysis and empiricism. It was through knowledge that PB was able to find and build shelter for her and Neddy, securing their needs and allowing their lives to not just continue but to produce (the Candy Kingdomg). This is PB the Scientist- someone on a quest for comprehension, intelligence and, soon enough, control.
PB to me, is almost like a Frankenstein figure, morally and ethically crushed by the weight of her intellect. She has spent the equivalent of several human lifespans learning how to conquer life itself and organize it. And what's important to consider too, and why critiques of PB are kind of hollow, is that PB does not have a referrent for society, its laws, customs, ethics, and codes of morality. All PB knows is her own research and comprehension of the world through the ruins of human civilization and the various tribal-like kingdoms that pepper the land of Ooo. I mean, maybe we can assume that PB has done a lot of reading of human life and civilization, but is then her project to emulate the empires she sees in ruins? Is she then just a pink facsimile of a human ruler? Or is she really building her society according to her own dreams, goals and visions without referrent? We don't have a clear answer, but it's fascinating to consider.
I'll end here by saying that I think in order to really critique PB, one has to understand her and the material conditions she exists in. Not only what does PB mean for us as an audience, but what does she mean as a character to other characters (as you illustrate), and what she means in the scope of the universe of the show itself? How does she sit within the cosmology of AT? And what does she mean and represent from a storytelling perspective, too. I just think PB is such a rich interesting character. Sorry for the ramble, but your video triggered my hyperanalytic bone. thanks!
I'm so glad you enjoyed the video so much! And don't worry about feeling bad about rambling, we all ramble. Trust me 😅
Princess Bubblegum is an anti-villain: she has good intentions but ends up doing bad, often like a parent who believes that she knows what is better for those who she created, but does not really.
She tries to control other beings because she feels insecure about what they could do with their freedom, honestly, we all seem to do the same, they could end up hurting themselves or end up hurting her.
A lot of people shit on pb because of what happened to princess cookie, it was a misunderstanding that caused cookie to act as he did, he was a child when he met bubblegum and people act like she actively berated him for having a dream when all she did was giggle a little, also at the end she’s there watching over cookie in the mental hospital or wherever he is, just because she didn’t actively encourage the seemingly impossible dreams of an orphan child doesn’t make her a monster, cookie would have probably went the same route of hating her because she “lied” if she did anyways
Princess Cookie was a really great episode! I can definitely see why people didn't like her much in that episode, but I thought she handled it pretty well honestly.
My issue is why are people inserting normal "humans" morals on a inmortal being made of gum in a post apocalyptic world. Marceline it's on the same gray scale as bonnie yet no one hates her as much as they hate Bonnie and it's funny bc we all know why lmao
(in case you did not know them dudes hate her character bc she rejected Finn's imaginary relationship with her)
When I examine bubblegum I’ve found that she the representation of a mother and we are seeing her from a child point of view, especially once the kingdom is made. Bonnie, created the candy kingdom, and to her they are her children. Everything she does seems to be in the interest of her people safety, just as a mother with their children. We see her as a goddess the safe way children see there parents as gods. Wow by their constant ability to display ingenuity, something so alien to us in our first decade of life. She the dictator often the same way we can see our parent as dictator, telling who to and who not to interact with, the constant surveillance. Finally she the kids next door, the same way a parent (hopeful) becomes a friend in your life. When you hang with them and revel in each other presence just bc they’re your safe space
As the oldest kid in my fam I was "parentized" by my parents at a really young age to look after all my siblings and keep them safe ( I was the oldest of 4..) My parents were pretty neglectful and would get super mad and hold me responsible if anything happened to anyone. Even if it was the brother closet to me in age hurting me or the other younger two.. Or trying to get them to play really dangerous games. I've always found Bonnie's character relatable and comforting. Especially because I didn't know my experience wasn't normal or healthy and I was taught to not tell anyone about what was going on at home.
Probably my favorite character. I think she gets so much hate because people.. or "fans" in particular fixate a lot on any character development that changes the default, plain interpretation of a character. An awful villain has a sad backstory and reveals how the hero is partly to blame for their villanous ways? "Oh, it's just an innocent baby that did nothing wrong : ( He's bad, but I can fix him!"
A hero does a bad thing or has a negative trait that affects others? "Oh, it's a horrible person!, I think it's implied to be the real villain!"
Bonnie is plainly established as "one of the good guys". She is a kind, loving, wise ruler. Intelligent and hard working to a fault. The series also invites us to consider her flaws, and the tough decisions she has to carry on her shoulders in order to protect her people, and people just goes wild nitpicking that over everything else.
I completely agree with the presumed origin of the character leading into how people perceive them. It's the reason people love redemption arcs so much because it has an obvious bad -> good angle. PB fluctuates between good and bad in the audience's POV constantly as the show goes on and I think that's what makes her so compelling.
I kinda don't understand alot of the PB slander I've been seeing on YT lately. So your video is refreshing compared. Also I feel like alot of people misunderstand that one Bannana Gaurd's imagery when describing the past PB. Combined with the mural, depicting PB as a god, certain events in those "flashbacks" merely an overdramatization based on how the public eyes sees her. And that's made even more obvious by how Neddy was presented as this monster that PB abusively used to create the foundation of the Candy Kingdom.
Even the whole scene where Gumbald is shown locked up is a dramatization, because as far as the public eye in concerned he was just a supposed family member PB mentioned that is mysteriously absent. The Rattleballs thing holds alot of truth, mostly because they mysteriously disappeared, but it's another one of those things that the public eye doesn't know the full details on(thus why the imagery was vague).
I know it's supposed to be obvious the scene wasn't meant to be literal, but it's just interesting to me that there's folk that treat it like it actually is 100% factual.
I feel like Bonnie is an example of what a benevolent dictator can look like. It can't really exist IRL, but in this fictional world of Ooo, she exists as a leader who has noble intentions and impressive power, but because she makes many decisions without any outside input, especially in her past, it leads her to making horrible choices, even if her intentions were good! She's an interesting character BECAUSE she's so flawed, and the fact that she constantly tries to be better, makes her really endearing!
I told my boyfriend yesterday that I really kin/relate to her because of her flaws and because so many people dislike her and at some points I think she's misunderstood. I think shes a really great character, whether or not shes a bad person, and Im glad she exists in fiction so that I can be comforted by knowing her
I'm happy to see that the character means so much to you!
I think the main two reasons people take issue with her character is that:
1) While she see's the world around her and changes, no character that trully matters ever seems to call her out on all the trully terrible things she had done. The only ones that kinda did were Flame Princes and Tree Trunks (I dont count Marceline because the reasons they fell out were kinda unrelated) .Meanwhile most of the time characters that dont like her like Lemongrab, Princess Cookie and Gumball are portrayed as crazy, unstable or evil.
2) Sometimes the story seems to back track/justify her bad behaviour by making her out to be right at the end. For example:
a)When she committed breaking and entering at the King of Ooos zeppelin in order to to prove that he was a criminal and didnt have a wedding license, only for him to show that he did in fact have one. Then she arrested him (and everyone alse) when he called her out, only to later on find out that he trully was a criminal all along.
b)Another one is how she claims that what she does is for the safety of her Kingdom. We learn after the end of the series that she stepped down as Princess and P. Butler became the new ruler of the Kingdom. Only to show that in the future the Candy Kingdom ended up falling completely, so at the end she was kinda right. Without her rulling it, the damn thing was ment to collapse.
Either Way, PB is a very complicated and engaging character, and honestly it is a bit sad that alot of people seem to egnore alot of the changes she went through in all those 10 seasons. However, I do understand why alot of people simply cannot like her
I think PB is one of the most compelling characters in the show. Adventure time overall is focused on bringing reality to the high fantasy world of Ooo and she perfectly shows it. All of the characters in adventure time have some sort of growth (maybe not LSP tho) throughout the series and that’s why it has stayed such a popular show from its very start. All of the characters in the show are capable of doing good or bad things, but they aren’t stuck in the stereotype of: hero = good, therefore everything the hero does it good. Finn manipulates his gf into destroying a kingdom so he could get off, and neither the show or the audience thought that was ok, but he grows and actually realizes his mistakes and honestly apologizes for them. Also it’s good FP does not easily forgive Finn, because she shouldn’t. PB is someone who from the moment she was born has only known taking care of others but wanted people to interact with in a way Neddy couldn’t. When gumbald and co were turned by the dum-dum juice, she saw them as so happy to be ignorant and she had companionship. Also the way she treats her candy people is based on how she has to take care of Neddy, keep him locked up and safe. She had to learn how to person without anyone guiding her and the only people she was around would never question her bc she made them. Once other people start pointing out how messed up her behavior is, she starts to slowly make those changes to be better. Her entire life revolves around keeping the candy people safe and sometimes that means she makes terrible but well meaning decisions. We need more characters like PB, that make us evaluate their behavior and each draw our own conclusions about their actions. Also I’m so over people saying this slightly autistic coded piece of gum with serious difficulty when it comes to social stuff, led on a 12 year old boy. No she didn’t properly read the situation and set clear boundaries but she didn’t see that anything needed to be done about it. She probably just saw it as a silly little thing and not him constantly pining after her and that it was inappropriate. We even see once she goes back to being 18 instead of 13 she is no longer interested in this immature 13 year old kid
I'm so glad you enjoyed her so much and I agree! This show wouldn't be nearly as good without the drama she added.
It was a post war society where everyone in Ooo were members or leaders of warring tribe states. The whole reason why kingdoms and the like exist is because of PB. She had to be a general, a leader, and develop a continent from nothing.
The conversation around Bonnie reminds me a lot of the conversation around the Diamonds from Steven Universe
Do you mean Pink Diamond/Rose Quartz?
@@JLacay Nah, I meant all four Diamonds. Pink especially though, seeing as she’s much more morally grey than her counterparts.
SPITTING
(Fiona and Cake Spoiler) PB isn’t even my favorite character but recently I take her defense side cuz some people starting to justify Winter King’s actions by saying things like “she deserves it” or “she probably did something worse” just get on my nerves
No hate to Winter King’s fan tho I think he’s a good villain
NOW THAT'S WILD. Winter King is also a slimeball, but in a different way.
Her only reference point was Needy, a being completely dependent on her. I think Cinamon Bun's situation showed PB that the candy people can be okay without her. And by the time of Obsidian she no longer seems to even live in the kingdom.
Yeah! As time rolled on she realized that people can live their own lives and I think that shows immense growth. Love the idea of it all manifesting from paranoia as well btw, that's a great addition!
princess bubblegum is NOT morally grey she’s literally valid for everything she did
based
Yikes
A lot of people say that she is similar to rose quartz in the sense that she is supposed to be a good person but in reality she is corrupt and evil but I don't think that's true. Unlike rose, Bonnie's intentions seem to be purely just, she does everything to protect her land and citizens. The only problem is that she addresses the problems in a solely logic based mindset, which isn't bad but she overlooks how it might affect others, like the rattleballs incident. She noticed that the rattleballs were violent and unpredictable by nature so instead of doing the humane thing and recoding them, she destroyed them. This may seem illogical and evil on the surface but think about it, the rattleballs could have became a risk to the kingdom so an efficient way to handle the situation without the risk of anything backfiring is to destroy them and replace them with a more tame and compassionate guard. Bubblegum isn't the type to take risks, if she sees a garenteed way to handle issues with no chance of failure she will take it. That is why she has cameras everywhere, it is so she can keep tabs on everything and can know who or what is a possible threat (ie:flame princess). Throughout the show however she stops seeing people as a statistic and more as, well, people. This is why she let's the final rattleballs live, turns her cameras off, and stops her space colonization. She was never evil, she just didn't want anything bad to happen to anyone and in doing so, she herself hurt people, like marceline, finn, phoebe, tree trunks, an even lemongrab.
This is a really interesting comparison!
One thing I like is that if someone mentions PB being bad, most people agree in the AT fandom seem to agree.
But for a while when ANOTHER mysterious pink character was stated to be bad, defenders of that character came out of the woodwork.
...until a certain movie introducing a pink chaotic space noodle came out. Then everyone kinda got on the bandwagon of "mysterious pink character is bad".
There's definitely a connection between these two pink chaotic entities for sure...
In regards to how she views the Candy citizens, i think Fionna and Cake's depiction of Gary and how he builds his Candy Kingdom and tells their story is incredibly telling
Well she did build a whole society on her own post apocalypse that almost took out all of humanity. PB first wanted a family and after the drama/trauma with Uncle Gumball she never really wanted to let things get out oh hand. She didn't grow up in a loving family in a not f-ed up world and had to handle everything on her own which is partly why she grew this need of control. Gary seems more like he doesn't want to do the basic baking stuff, but do something more that has a impact on people. I think his idea really sweet, personally I would love to hear some interesting stories about candy people and it would make a mundane day more special
Very true!
Thank u cus they been arguing on twitter about this for like 2 weeks. Even if shes a bad person i still love her as a character, theres so many angles to examine her from
I like PB because she feels just like me a lost child who tries her best and wants to go home to her family (Mother Gum). She grew up in the same time as Marceline, but when Marcy had her mom, Simon, other humans-survivors and even her dad, Bonnie had only herself and Neddy. And once her own citizens, the people she created, didn't vote for her she changed for me. She accepted it, moved to the old house Gumbald built and tried to live. And broke down when she couldn't even protect her non-alive crops. "I lost my hat, I lost my crops, I lost my kingdom". I feel like if I was her I would do all the same mistakes she did, because when I watched her perform genocide of those red knights I felt like it was ok.
Wow, a character anylisis on pb that is not just "she did those terible things and she was the villian all along"? Finally, thank you alot
Not a problem! I wanted to try and actually discuss the grey area of her character unlike many other opinions I’ve seen.
Excellent, thank you for this. Much better understanding than what I generally see online.
Thanks so much! I'm glad you enjoyed the video
I find it insane how most people will slander PB for her past misdeeds and never the other characters like Betty, Magic Man/Normal Man/King Man, Flame Princess, Finn, and many more. Do they know that most of the cast had done some pretty horrific things other than PB?
I think its partially because for most of the show PB is never called out for her morally dubious actions, while Magic Man was treated as a villain while he acted like one
@@megabladechronicles962exactly, betty was literally punished by normal man idk get what the commenter is trying to prove
@@megabladechronicles962 She literally gets called out whenever multiple times. Tree Truncks called her a facist when he was infecting the aliens with candy, FP told her she was a terrible person when she was destroying the guardians, in a flashback, Marceline called her a dictator, and even her own people voted KOO as the new princess of the Candy Kingdom because they thought he would be a better leader than her. I don't understand how she was never called out when she had numerous times in the show.
@@Raddish-IS-Radd And then there's FP that burnt down the Goblin Kingdom and never gets called out on it.
this video will always be one of my favorite pb analysis because of how you not only see her bad side, but you understand why she was the way she was. you know her motives and that they do not 100% justify what she did, but offer a sense of explanation to her character. in my opinion, understand pb’s backstory is so important for dissecting her personality and truly understanding her as a whole. pb is not one thing, she is a person of many components that make her who she is, so when people immediately jump to “pb is a bad character; she’s terrible,” they obviously do not understand her. (im also a tad biased since she is my favorite).
Thanks so much! I definitely think there were some more things I could’ve brought up in retrospect, but I mainly wanted to get that gray area across. Showing the good and the bad, but talking about the context first and foremost.
I think instead of Makima, Bonnie is more like Rose Quartz from Steven Universe. When we started off with her we see her at the most idealized version of herself. Especially when we are seeing her through Finn's eyes. Just as we see Rose through Steven's eyes. But as time goes we find out more about them, see their flaws see their issues, see the parts of themselves that they may not have wanted people to see. And that's I think what makes them great characters. The only difference is we get to see more of Bonnie than Rose, She's still a growing and learning character. But Rose isn't, Rose is dead, so we don't get to see her beyond the black and white of the show. Bonnie gets to show her very grey side to us, where she's definitely that overprotective older sister figure, the scared child whose world is falling apart around her, and the monstrous dictator that she was in her early years.
Amazing analysis and I definitely think that she's similar to Rose. Them both being pink in color just adds to the craziness of the similarities.
I'm new to AT I'm admitting that straight-up, but the discussion around her reminds me a lot of Rose Quartz/Pink Diamond and given Rebecca Sugar's involvement in AT I do find that rather interesting. Like I'm never fully sure if people are overreacting or if they just weren't written well enough to get the point across or if there's just a certain point where people will reject the idea of a person "trying to get better" (which would make sense considering how very "justice/discipline >>>> rehabilitation" the western world is right now). PLUS it's also noteworthy that they're both women (or at least they present as such,) & every accepted/well-liked redemption arc I can think of is male. Y'all know who I'm talkin about.
So this got longer than I meant it to be & I'm gonna stop here bc like I said I can't speak too much on it yet (& again this comment focuses on the discussion I've seen, not the character herself) but pls know that I really enjoyed this analysis. I really love exploring grey characters too, man.
Completely agree with the comparison between Rose and PB, whole lot of drama around those two for sure. And I'm glad you enjoyed the video so much and its nice to see people new to the series!
I think what can sum up PB is that she tries to do good, but she is a flawed leader who tends to get tunnel vision and dismiss those that conflict with her biases.
I think of her like a mom who tends to go to far in the pursuit of protecting those she cares about.
If there's one thing this series is good at it's telling the stories of flawed characters, even Finn and Simon are flawed characters remember when Finn made FP fight ice king or the entire 9th episode where Simon realizes he never took any of Betsy's priorities into account.
Adventure Time is about taking flawed characters in learning to see the good in them as they learn and adapt.
If you haven't decided of a tattoo when you reach your goal, may I recommend getting a modified one of Finn's tattoo of Jake? Have it be modified to include BOTH Finn and Jake? Loving these Vids, man. Keep up the high quality work and you'll be there in no time.
Thanks so much for the kind words! I actually do have a tattoo in mind already (Been thinking some of these for a WHILE) but the idea is still super cool!
Know this got posted just 2hrs ago but still underated vid and also very underrated channel
Thanks so much! That means so much to hear 😭
Comparing Bonnie to Makima is just baffling. We never see Makima change for the better now did we? We also didn’t see Bonnie taking away treating Finn like a dog right?
I always felt like I was on a different wavelength when thinking about PB compared to the general online discourse. Because to me, PB was always being what she needed to be for her kingdom. Like, we see dictator PB standing ontop of a goop monster, because the early days of her kingdom were still under threat, the gumball guardians were clearly built in response to external threats, so she become the defensive, controlling, and combative dictator in order to keep her arguably inept people safe. Early banana guards were clearly bad at their jobs, so she had to be the protector and shepard to keep them safe. When outside threats of the goop eventually disappeared, she had a thriving city with rising crime, and when her people, and the incompetent banana guards, couldn't maintain the peace, Bonnie had to step in. This was initially met with force, and when the force was no longer needed and became a threat to the candy people, she took action. And her much less violent surveillance system took the place of the rattleballs. And at present when PB finally decides to take down the cameras, that is PB coming to the conclusion that she no longer needs to be the helicopter mother for her people, they've shown her that they can, in fact, start taking care of themselves. Honestly I feel like the relationship between PB and her people is more of that of a mother, being what she needs to be for the betterment and safety of her people, even if they don't like it, because it's clear the candy people need that guiding hand, and when PB finally takes down her cameras, she's realised her people are ready for the responsibility.
Obvs that doesn't mean she did everything right. Adventure time does a great job of making its characters human and fallible, even though they are trying to do what they think is right.
I want my first tattoo to be an adventure time one as well :) Love how complex PB is
Great to hear! Do you have a specific one in mind?
@@Kev-D-OG There's a local tattoo artist who did a flash sale a month or so ago, and one of the pieces advertised had Finn hugging Jake with his enlightenment robe still on after finally finding him during their distant lands episode, I cry pretty much Everytime I watch that episode! Haha Either that or a dope Marceline one :) Still saving up
I assumed PB told Flame King to keep Phoebe under control and it was his idea to lock her up forever, he did have complete power over her freedom because he lets her out as soon as she has an evil enough suitor. Maybe he thought that they'd be strong enough now that he wouldn't need to care about what PB could do in retaliation.
My impression of Bonnie has always been a sense of the drive to survive and nurture a species. They are living in a post apocalypse setting. Life is not easy. And as soon as she was made and had a full sense of herself she set about making other life. It always seemed more of a compulsion with her. And once the candy people were created she saw them as her's. Entirely. And she built to last. To survive. And if anything crossed that, be it an enemy or her own people, she would lay them out in a breath. And maybe rebuild them if it was one of her's.
Love this analysis! It blends her ambition into something primal as well as motherly.
The content is so good that it is impossible to miss a single video of you 😘🥰
Thanks so much! This is genuinely one of the nicest comments I've ever seen from anyone 😭
She's a complex character who started her life with good intentions but became a monster in the middle of her journey, but near the "end" she's shown trying to reverse course, especially after another "transformative" experience. She's absolutely conflicting and that isn't a bad thing. However i think the big reason why some people just cannot get themselves to like her anymore even after she's started to change, is due to the imbalance of bad to good, being way too lopsided, from what we've seen her do. For example, if someone made the lives of all our family members terrible constantly, but then when it was your turn, she decided to leave your family alone and treat you better, that wouldn't just erase all the pain previously caused, especially if some of your family members perished as a result of her. you may be able to move on, but "forgiveness" may not be on the table. A similar character, is actually Kratos of God Of War, who never sought forgiveness (mostly cuz he didn't think he deserved it) after his actions but made it his mission to simply be better than he was before. I think a reason why some people like kratos post-atrocities and not really bonnie, is due to the wishy washy nature of how the show portrays her and her motivations sometimes, like you said it doesn't always work both ways. I don't hate bonnie, but i'm also not a candy kingdom citizen lol so it's "easier" for me not to. I think people would have liked to have seen even more of her directly working to mend damage she's done.
"She's absolutely conflicting and that isn't a bad thing." Love this quote so much. Also, I definitely agree that people would've wanted to see her get called out more for what she's done and I think that would've made for some great moments.
Grated I will said the fandom is kinda too forgiving to kratos reallly probably because they see as cute
@@Kev-D-OG Yeah, and as another comment here said, the show kind of treats all of her horrible actions as a "personal problem", which rubs a lot of folks the wrong way.
I honestly love Bonnie, that’s all I wanna say, she truly is one of the amazing develop character 🌱🌱
Completely agree 👏😤
The Bonnie Problem:
-Bad Niece
-Bad Lake
-Bad Vibes
True
I feel like Bonnie is lonely and she wanted love.
She made herself a family because she didn't have one.
Her creations turned on her and their betrayal pacified her loved ones but she could not just kill her family even if they tried to kill her because she is alone, they are her family but she loves them.
Which gives her a very insecure attachement
She wants love but she fears that everything she trys to love will hurt her
but if shes smart she can make it okay, and she wont have to be alone
but in becoming obsessed with controlling the situation leaves her ultimitely alone no matter what she does
Shes not a bad person, shes a lonely person whos incredibly intelligent.
Shes not trying to hurt people, she just feels like everyone will hurt her if they have the means to.
This is a really great breakdown!
Your room is so clean, neat and organised 😁
I try 😅
My thing abt bonnie is that she does things that few people could do if in a position of power, specially those that reject her