Yo!! Just wanted to correct myself before I spread more misinformation. Ive been corrected and Frank and his Dog don’t have to die to get through that area. How previous puzzles were solved and others peoples play throughs made me think otherwise. Sorry about that!
Hey, I did notice something - I believe if you look in the cell phone in episode 1, Chloe reaches out to Max several times but gets delayed or no responses in return.
But, Chloe decided to use the money for selfish reasons just like the principal so she is just as guilty as him. It kinda makes her no better, as other people actually needed it.
@@Jacson_23 Eh, if the principal was stealing the funds for his own personal use, I don't see why it's not justified to steal it from him. Why should a criminal have any more claim to what he stole than I? If anything, it's MORE moral if I get to spend it, because then at least the criminal isn't getting rewarded for his crime. That said, Max should have wanted to take it and then, you know, donate it to a legit charity or something.
@@BWMagus dude what even? If you steal from a criminal that doesn't make you any less of a criminal. Especially if you're just gonna do the same thing the criminal was going to do, which is to use the money for your own benefit when it doesn't belong to u to begin with. "if anything, it's more moral if I get to use it" is such a diluted thought it's baffling
One thing you forgot to mention is how Chloe completely sells out Max if she fails to hide in the closet when David finds the joint. She says its Max's pot and she gets mad at you if you say it isn't.
Doesn't even discuss it beforehand, she just straight up 'oh it's Max's'. She gets mad that you don't want to risk your scholarship, AND her mum gets mad.
@Killah Frost18x Past trauma explains certain behaviors, but it doesn't justify them. I wish the right person would've come along and (figuratively) knocked some sense into Chloe.
Yeah I had a friend who seems rebellious on the surface but really she was just an asshole who hates her family (which I’ve seen to be flawed but loving and caring) and contorts her perception of any ex-friend or partner into someone who doesn’t deserve sympathy by finding fault in regular behavior or fabricating fault from regular behavior
I thought Chloe'd panic when Max blacks out and regret pushing her so hard and that it'd be a turning point for her character. But that would make too much sense I guess.
I think they wanted to write a girl who was a bit of a brat, but a lovable brat, who happens to be from a rough background and is going through some tough stuff and lashes out, but has a heart of gold under there. A sort of “She’s a jerk, but she’s my jerk” type of situation. Unfortunately they forgot to put more time into the “lovable” and “has a heart of gold under there” part. Edit: Holy balls I did not expect this to get so many likes.
weeby weeb i had a fucked up child/teenhood but you don’t see me stealing, doing drugs, abusing my bffs, and being a douche bad in general :] I never went to therapy to fix my broken mind, but I’m 20 (almost 21) and still doing alright. I had my moments but never once had i thought i should take it out on anyone. Don’t excuse her bratty actions. It’s cringe and hard to see
@@roccoon9892 Her actions are explained by a horrible upbringing and circumstances, however that hardly excuse any of her actions, anyone is responsible for their actions regardless of their background, but said background does explain the why of it but shouldn't affect the outcome of judgements.
Rowan P. Lol actually play the game instead of listening to this video which is very biased cause this guy completely ignored a lot of stuff in the game and acted asif all the worst outcomes were like the default for Chloe which isn’t true Chloe does apologise for freaking out on Max for calling Kate and was very sympathetic in that whole situation if you saved Kate Chloe would be the one to take Max to go see Kate and would ask if Kate is okay when Max leaves. It is actually so easy to convince Chloe at the party to not go in i have never failed to convince her and she doesn’t automatically kill Frank and his dog it’s when Frank gets pissed off and his dog runs to attack them im pretty sure Chloe doesn’t even like it when this outcome happens and heck max could literally kill the dog earlier on in the game. All the crime and sneaking in to school and stuff is literally what im pretty sure a lot of teens wish to do and probably some have lmao
@Summer Rose You ought to reread what I said. I say that it explains her actions but doesn't excuse them, the judgement shouldn't be affected by the why of it, a crime's a crime.
@@TheTiredhermit the messages on her phone show that she pretty much ghosted chloe and chloe had tried reaching out to her. If im remebering correctly even after living in chloe's home town for a decent time, she still doesnt reconnect until chloe is literally murdered in front of her. Max is canonically the kind of person who abandons her bestfriend while they are actively grieving their parent's death. Even if they were acquaintances actively ignoring a person reaching out in that situation is a dick move and they were according to the story close friends. Besides that through max's dialogue and commentary she show's herself to be incredibly self-absorbed, naive, and just the worst kind of twee pretentious artist. Her midterm is definitely gonna be 30 minutes of unedited footage of a plastic bag in the wind
“If it’s unhealthy, it’s realistic” Ya I hate how so many stories especially in games treat the protagonist as the only person who should be held responsible. It’s a really terrible and annoying trait
well thats the thing, chloe was not suppost to live, you decided to bring her back and its because of your action that a storm destroys the town, it is entierly your fault so yes, it is all your fault
It's a thing because she's a child... Why do people seem to pass over this obvious reason? Kids do stupid things, they say stupid things, they have stupid reasons for the things they believe in. They're kids. "Oh! but I never...." Yes you did. Yes you did. You were once young and stupid too. You once got upset over something unreasonable. You once let your emotions overpower your mind. You were once young.
I still don’t understand how people would sacrifice a whole ass town, that means families and people who didn’t deserve this bs in general, for a toxic friendship/romance.
@Ashlyn Nicole lol me too. i don't really give a shit about anybody there except chloe. i would have done the same in real life if my parents and sister were out of town
"Stupid gun!", Max declares, chastising Chloe's stolen gun for having the gall to function exactly in accordance with the manufacturer's specifications.
interestingly enough that actually works pretty well if you put yourself in the mindset of codependency instead of healthy friendship with the two, cant risk blaming chloe so you blame the closest thing that chloe would go along with, if its the guns fault for existing, it cant be chloes fault after all, and thats Safe
@ROYALTYZ Zzz exactly, lmao. i think max was annoyed that chloe was stupid, but more specifically; that chloe was stupid by bringing a gun, and the fact that a gun is generally a bad idea.
I lost any sympathy for her after the way she response to Max telling her to grow up and reminding her that Kate just almost killed herself. She's straight up like "Yeah yeah Kate almost killed herself, big sad. Doesn't make me feel any better," Like WTF Chloe? Why do you expect people to be sensitive to your situation if you can't be sensitive to anyone else's?
True. I never forgave her for trying to set me up with the weed when my character stepped out of the closet. I was like “wtf” so i didnt cover up for her and didnt steal money for handicapped funds; she has then the gall to get mad at my character for not siding with her. This bitch tried to make Max give up her future for her tantrums and self interests. The only time i felt sorry for her was the alternate timeline.
if Kate killed herself, she still says the same shit. Even after earlier she was like "don't answer some bitch who you met in the school every day, and i have a many people i can hung out too". GIRL, are you serious? I'm surprised she didn't whined about Max's decision to answer Kate, like when Max didn't take the blame about weed. "you can always blamed me, like you did it with the weed" . IT WAS YOUR FUCKING WEED!
If Kate had been in Chloe's place instead, it would have made an interesting story. Max could go through the story slowly helping Kate have more confidence while her and Chloe grow distant.
Kind of like a "that was then, this is now" type story/relationship, except it's all females? That would be somewhat interesting (more interesting than what we got).
Based on your choices, either Kate kills herself because you don't help her or Chloe overdoses because you don't help her. (Of course with a secret ending were both live.)
I was quite disappointed with how Kate's story ended I was more invested in Kate's story and Max's relationship with her than Chloe's. Near the end Victoria says she wants to go visit Kate with Max I would have liked to see scenes of that and also the impact it has on Kate and Max's relationship. I also really enjoyed the development of Max's relationship with Taylor and Courtney and in general would have liked to see an overall change in Blackwell due to the decisions I had made.
@Summer Rose As the episodes went on I felt like the character of Max was changing or at least when she was with Chloe. I feel like Max's normal characteristics is being level headed and a reasonable person who just wants good for other and tries to help others. But it really frustrated me when her morality would be impacted when Chloe was involved when her thought process no longer makes sense and always favours Chloe without considering the whole picture. I feel as if maybe her guilt of not reaching out to Chloe in the past 5 years may have impacted her judgement. But I can understand this characteristic exists as I have many relatives or friends who make excuses and favour cousin's or friends regardless of the situation even when they're in the wrong, when biases aren't involved they seem to make rational decisions. I also feel like only Chloe had input in their relationship and was completely controlled by her it didn't seem like Max had any control in that friendship. I have just started playing before the storm so I'm not too sure about what happens in the game. I initially didn't play it back when it was released when I found out it was a prequel as Chloe was never one of my favourite characters but after replaying LiS I just want to experience more of the world I really enjoyed the detail and relationships outside of the main focus.
To be fair, seeing Chloe and Max's toxic relationship made me realise I was in one myself and sort of motivated me to leave so that's something I guess EDIT: hens when did this get 12k likes????
Flauros666 Z holy shit bro its hard to recognize that youre in an unhealthy relationship. sometimes you need an outside source to realize youre being taken advantage of no neef to be condescending aboutbit
Chloe is the antagonist, she sets plot in motion, she’s an active obstacle in Max’s life and (spoiler alert) on one of the endings she’s the reason the city got destroyed.
I disagree with David being paranoid for no reason. A girl of Chloe's age is missing. He's probably afraid that Chloe or someone from the school would be next.
The reason I love these games is the characters are complex. David is not a bad person at all and he genuinely cares. But his entire belief system is antiquated and misogynistic which taints everything. The good news is he does eventually get his stuff straight.
Not to mention that a gun of his is missing, let's say chloe didn't end up having it (which if you go down a certain route chloe ends up losing it to a drug dealer pissed at her) that means a person has gone missing as well as one of his guns
@fallingxerophilous9870 he isn't really misogynist just a ex military dude who wants to protect his wife and new step kid who is rebellious and hates him
The moment the words "It's a shame this game couldn't have been about Kate Marsh." were spoken, I just had to pause the video and take a moment to gather my thoughts. That's... yeah. That's valid. Kate was a sweetheart and an amazing character.
Honestly, one of the only good characters. When I played (I already knew about the story and ending, but I still decided to play and get my own opinion... And yeah, I didn't like it :V) I only cared for Kate and I even cheated to know the good options to get her to survive. If she was the was one of the protag, instead of Chloe, it could honestly be better.
Honestly I spent maybe an hour laughing at Chloe shooting herself and didn’t even think twice about sacrificing Chloe for the town. That’s a bad protagonist, especially when you sympathize with the person she considers to be an abusive step parent.
@@MaskOfLimbo Kate's pain that led to her depression: A video is leaked of her kissing boys. Chloe's pain that led to real depression: Cat dies, Dad dies horrifically, bff moves, bff ghosts her because Chloe's mournful state makes Max uncomfortable, rich prejudiced school that Chloe experienced bullying from because she was a raggedy "scholarship kid" then expects Chloe to get over her father's death, mother moves on and dates an ex military type David. David snoop's through Chloe's room, makes sexist and ageist remarks, and even has no problem hitting her if you stay hidden in the closet, mom has no problem with that either. Chloe has one human connection Rachel, whom she worshipped and worked hard for, she saw Rachel get stabbed trying to defend her, and then Chloe trying to save Rachel's mother gets BEATEN unconscious by a big time game Criminal that made Mark Jefferson look like a privileged coward, after that dude is dead she has a small pleasant time with Rachel while no one else in her life is aware of what Chloe still has gone through. Then Rachel secretly dates Frank, after Chloe finds this out she finds the body of her beautiful beloved rotting in the same junk yard they spent so many memories in. Hmmmmmm yeah the struggles of Kate are soooo memorable.
@@Gamer_Mama_0611 to be fair, some, if not a majority of those events were caused, indirectly or not, by her, and honestly, it sometimes feels like the creators put her through so much shit, just so she can be a terrible person and have an "excuse." Yes, it explains her actions, but it shouldn't allow her to treat people like garbage and undermine others. In fact, since she's gone through so much, shouldn't that mean that she'd know better than to undermine others?
Chloe is a very realistic character. She isn’t a very good person, and is very reminiscent of people that I’ve met. It is also very realistic that the character she takes advantage of is a person like Max. The problem does not lie with her. A well written character can still be a bad person. The real issue is that the game will not let you acknowledge that she’s a bad person.
Exactly. I actually don't even have a problem with Max going along with her ideas, neither for thinking that she loves Chloe (in any way), rather, with the gamw saying that's ok. I was in a friendship where I was taken advantage of, and I love it being represented, but I really dislike the save Chloe ending because of its message.
@Zara Basantez It's like one of those shitty romance novels, lol. Naughty bad girl sweeps up an innocent chick and gives her life more meaning than she ever could've had before, now featuring: toxic relationships.
I know this comment is late, but I do feel LiS would be more interesting if there's no Chloe, rather Max's whole journey in high school, and she bonded more with Kate.
@@imaninamakhtar896 yeah I saw someone say that the game could’ve been more like choosing whether to stick with Chloe or Max going off and making better friends with other people like Kate and Warren. Then your solving different parts of the mystery depending on who you choose and that effects the ending. Like something like that would’ve been great imo.
If the creators said "This game symbolises the decision between getting rid of a toxic friend or keeping them, & the storm is literally just Max's good karma and she can go back in time to choose to save herself or a selfish prick" ... Then I would applaud.
Nah, I don't think so. They would never say it genuinely: the product talks for them. They force us to see Chloe as a good person, even though she clearly isn't. So, for them, Chloe is a good and/or lovable person. That's what we see and that's what the game is saying to us. So even if they said that "the game symbolises the decision between getting rid of a toxic friend or keeping them"... It would still sound like they're covering their asses. I saw too many developers covering their crappy narrative with "oh but it's symbolism", or "oh you need to get metaphores" (this may be unpopular, but the first game I think of are Omori or Pocket Mirror). Your product needs to be CLEAR in its intentions, if it's meant for a big audience. I personally don't care that "the creators said this or that". Like I said, the product talks, you ("you" developer) don't need to.
Sadly that ain't the case, based on any of the interviews I've read about the game's ending. The creators were more concerned about teaching the lesson of "you can't make everything perfect" and shoving it into players faces as hard as they can, a well made ending be damned.
@@Elerantula_ So what your saying is they sould not make symbolism simply because you cant stand it? I STRONGLY disagree with everything what you said. All being said this is the most overrated series I have ever seen, the game is a waste of life and time.
It always bugged me that Chloe got annoyed when Kate called like I genuinely had to put the game down because of course I'm going to make sure Kates okay
Yeah she was such a brat. I was playing with my best friend at the time and we thought she was actually going to ditch us if we picked up, we both immediately agreed that being there for our friend for the 30 seconds she needs us for os more important than the friend that can't handle us caring for anyone else.
I really liked kate better, tbh she's my favorite side character.. all this time tumblr and the fandom has been overhyping chloe, when i actually played the game i was actually frustrated on how toxic and guilt-trippy she is!
Oh wow I forgot about that! Yeah I don't know why she was so many people's favorite character, I never really liked her when the game came out but couldn't totally put my finger on it. Now that I'm older I can actually see all the signs of her being a manipulative and toxic friend...Especially since I used to have "friends" like that when I was growing up. Glad I'm not the only one And like of course we're gonna be their for our friend! Like Max is allowed to have other friends Chloe, (also had "friends" like that who got jealous any time I talked to another friend and pulled that "But I'M your best friend!" bull)
Interesting take. It's been a number of years since I played this game and I remember it touched me deeply. To me it didn't feel like I was supposed to sympathize with Chloe, on the other hand, I felt this overwhelming sadness for Max, I just wanted to hug her. I think the real tragedy that could be relatable for many people was watching this girl trying to save someone who is so obviously beyond saving, until she realizes that there's no saving her. Even though the game offers you a choice, the arc of this game is to sacrifice Chloe in the end.
If anyone’s played/watched PS4 Spider-Man, throughout the entire game Peter constantly blames himself for things way out of his control. I honestly think Max is very similar
That's what I think. I think that was the moral that the creators wanted the players to figure out for themselves, and the last choice was sort of a test to see if you actually learned it. That's why that ending was longer and more impactful, rather than the ending just being, "Everyone in the town except David dies, and Chloe and Max just leave." I think the lesson is about how you just have to accept the past, and tampering with time can mess things up. That's why we had the part where Max tries to save Chloe's dad and it causes Chloe to become disabled, or those parts where if Max overuses her power too much, she faints and gets the same vision warning her about the tornado. It all backfires any time she uses her power, even when she has good intentions. You just have to let things be. The only thing that messes with this moral though, is that she still has the knowledge of Nathan and Mr. Jefferson kidnapping and drugging girls, and since the shooting scene in the bathroom happened after Mr. Jefferson's class, the changed timeline when she tells David about Mr. Jefferson still technically happened, so the time traveling still helped her, so....yeah. I don't know anymore. Maybe I'm wrong, actually.
@@mynameisreallycool1 I’m pretty sure when Nathan is caught after killing Chloe, he confesses to the police about Jefferson, it’s one of the pictures when you rewind back to the beginning, so Max doesn’t have to be involved
honestly this game would have been a lot more interesting if it was *about* their relationship being clumsy and unpleasant and based solely around nostalgia, how you feel tied to someone because you were close a long time ago and now you're incompatible, but that doesn't stop you from trying to recapture that feeling. solely focusing on finding a way to be the same as things used to be, despite the fact that you've both grown apart
Exactly! Instead, the game has the characters proclaim to each other that they're BFFs while one continues to manipulate and abuse the other. Yup, uh huh, sure.
To be honest, this is about how I interpreted the game. Not having many friends growing up, I just really wanted to find a way to rekindle their old friendship, since it doesn't really seem like Max has many other friends (like there's Warren, and then that's basically it?). That's probably part of why I was so blind to a lot of the dumb thing Chloe did, though I didn't ignore all of them. Like yes Chloe, this call is important enough that I can stop talking to you for 10 seconds. Hell Max probably could've explained it afterwards, but it seems like she didn't even try.
Chloe is my least favorite character in the storyline. She's incredibly rude and disrespectful to everyone. Chloe sees everyone has somehow against her, even in the smallest way. She constantly shits on Max for not having her back(EX:if you had managed to hide in the closet, she tells you at first that it's good that her stepdad didn't catch you in the room but in the next scene she snaps at you for not standing up for her) or giving her enough attention(EX: She gets angry with you when you answer Kate's call, despite both you and Max knowing that Kate is going through a really hard time). Not only that but once she finds out about Max's powers, she treats it like it's a toy(EX:going to a junkyard to shoot at trash and telling Max to save her if anything bad happens). But she also acts like Max moving was just to spite her when it wasn't. They were both 13 and where Max's parents go, of course Max is going to have to follow. Chloe honestly cannot let anything go and takes out her anger on everyone, even her only friend.
@@lilnutt5580 Before the Storm makes no sense. It was just there to introduce Rachel, which there was no point because you know she's going to die an awful death in the future. And with the options for Chloe to be kind and try to get along with David don't belong. She talks about not getting along with him and not wanting to try to be buddy-buddy with him in the first game. That she was angry with her mother for trying to move on from her fathers death.
Warren was extremely underrated and the developers did him dirty imo. He ALWAYS had Max’s back and I really wish we got to see more of him and the developers explored him and Max’s relationship more.
Agreed. Unfortunately there's a very vocal subsection of the _Life is Strange_ fanbase that want you to believe Warren was nothing more than a creepy stalker who was thirsting for Max. This was why I believe _Before the Storm_ had to establish a new character called Elliot in order to highlight what a real creep was vs. an awkward socially inept nerd.
One point: Chloe's father dies WHILE Max is in the house. She literally sees Chloe break down and they move away right after the funeral (but you don't find that out until a DLC pack, I think). One theme you didn't explore, and it's a POWERFUL one, is guilt. In Max's heart, she remembers her best friend (very BRILLIANT friend... look at Chloe's grades when she isn't punked out). She blames herself for not being there physically or emotionally for years. She only re-encounters Chloe because she happened to get shot in a bathroom she was in. Chloe is likewise driven by guilt because, on some level, she does know her life is shitty because of her own actions. Guilt will drive you into bad choices and into keeping bad relationships. Chloe carries her own load of guilt, but that's obvious from her attempts to run from it rather than wallow in it.
@@uhoh7545 I don't think there is a canon ending since in the sequel your choice in the game determines the state of Arcadia bay do it will either be fine or destroyed depending on what your previous save data says
@@Billiebotts just looked it up apparently there isn't a canon ending because as a developer put it "Due to the way in which the first game ended, we didn’t want to canonize one group of players’ choices over the other - a sentiment echoed strongly by our community" There have been official comics that continue Max's story specifically the "sacrifice Arcadia Bay" ending but they were not made to canonize an ending. A second round of these comics were slated to release in October this year but they will probably be delayed to due to unforeseen circumstances so it's really still up in the air.
@@uhoh7545 it is technically considered canon because the comic series is considered canon, which follows the save Chloe ending. Though it's mostly because there's not much to say after the sacrifice Chloe ending.
Dude sounds like Yanderedev in an alternate universe where he went to college, finished Yansim, and became a reputable game dev/genuinely good person. In all seriousness though, great video, big ups!
I’m pretty sure that’s just Urick’s accent. Yandere Dev only talks like that because he’s under the false assumption that it makes him sound professional.
The most interesting character for me was David. It was strange how the game tried to portray him as a villain most of the time. Part of how it tries to show Chloe as a good person. But throughout the whole game he was one of the few people I felt genuine sympathy for. An example of just how good he actually is is when you tell him Jefferson killed Chloe. David takes his anger out on Jefferson by shooting the bastard, but at the end of it he blames himself. Yes, he is paranoid, but have you PLAYED the game? There's drugs, sex, etc. happening at parties hosted by Nathan whose family pretty much owns the school. The principal is a drunk. The teacher is a murderer, and creep. All this has resulted in the disappearance of Rachel Amber, Chloe's best friend, which David knows. So, he needs to find out what is happening and try and keep Chloe from being like Rachel was so she won't also disappear without a trace. Also, either David dies along with Joyce via waterspout or David has to go home from his job as school security guard and tell Joyce that Chloe died on his watch.
@Summer Rose He illegally surveiled a 19 year old and her mother. He is verbally abusive and extremely hostile, a bully and just a horrible human being.
i think people were a little bit too much obsessed with this "cute lesbian couple" that they didn't want to notice how unhealthy this relationship was in the first place. besides the fact that this was one of the not many lgbt relationships from that time i think.
this is exactly what i think too, plus so many games before this would use lesbian/bi women as fanservice, so a lot of people were happy to see a game that didnt just use them for solely porn/sexual reasons
this, absolutely. i was a terrified preteen/early teen when this game was released and i was so deep in the closet, with no representation in any media, especially video games, whatsoever. this game was my escape, my safe space. i can not express how much this game and the community helped me accept myself and start expressing myself. that’s why, despite it’s flaws, this game and the franchise will forever hold a really special place in my heart.
@GrabberBythePuss Can't remember if it was set in stone or not, but having Max kiss Chloe was at least an option in a later episode, and it's implied that if you choose save Chloe over the town that they leave it as a couple.
@@bcunt2639 yeah I'd say it was played for laughs and it doesn't get recognized as intentional irony because of the overall tone of the game and Chloe's words/actions.
The game focused way too much on failing to make us sympathise with Chloe instead of focusing on the side characters like Nathan, Warren, Victoria and Kate who are way more interesting and could be fleshed out a lot more, especially Nathan, but the game wanted to force their relationship to the point where everything else got shut out.
nathan was my favorite character, and the entire prescott family storyline had so much more potential. after the final episode i felt robbed, because the previous episodes gave us so many hints about the prescotts, some native american stuff and a bunch of other shit (i don't remember exactly, it's been a while). they made it seem like this + jefferson, like it was all connected. and then they just seemed to settle for a cliche "i'm a creeper who takes pictures" ending. and all that potential was just completely wasted.
Małgorzata Szewczyk they were meant to give him a lot more character, even hinting in the trailer that he knew about the storm and was trying to figure it out himself, they instead took it all out because they rushed the final episode and now people see him as just as guilty as Jefferson,
Małgorzata Szewczyk and yeah he’s my favourite character in the game too, not many games want to explore characters with mental illnesses like him, and they instead went with the “mentally ill character is immediately evil” route with him instead of fleshing him out more, they instead focused on chloe and Max’s shitty relationship.
i think it was mostly due to the fact that the game isnt about maxs high school life. its about max learning to use her powers while figuring out the mystery of rachels dissapereance
wxtcher I agree that the game is based on chloe and max, but as a choice based game I think they should give the option to explore more into them and have scenes where it’s just max talking with them.
I genuinely love your art for chloe and max, I love whenever they show up on screen. Especially max with her massive hair, and evil max and her expressions too
@cat I don't either, it's as bare bones with 3d art as you can get, with out everything being ripped from the asset store for place holders. The animation is stiff, the faces look like melted plastic, also very uncanny Valley, collision is weird to discourage exploration, I could go on with more, but do I need to? The fact that this is Don't Nod's second game and was backed by Sony, you'd think more care would have went into the project. Don't Nod's first game "Remember Me" looked a lot better, in every faucet, but didn't make enough to keep them a float.
Yeah, me too. I felt bad for joyce throughout the game bc she had to work hard to support her child and chloe just being an ass not realizing that she's not the only one whose been hurt by her father's death.
I forgot how annoying it was to be a teenager. You know Warren got so much hate and was even painted as some creep by a lot of fans and I'm here like, this guy is super cool and is an awesome friend. I wish we got to bring him along to be honest. The whole time I was with Chloe I felt like I was in a toxic friendship from how hard I had to watch what I said so she wouldn't get upset with Max.
If you want to get technical, Max was the creepier one. You can make her literally snoop around everything in every bedroom she walks in. Look at their books, computer, everything. Chloe too, because she encourages her to do so to get the plot further. People say Warren "stalked" Max, but you have the option to have Max look through everything in his locker and bedroom without him ever knowing. How ironic that people are calling Warren "creepy" for having one photo of her in his gym locker when the only reason people know about it in the first place is because they went to the pool through the BOYS locker room AND looked into Warren's locker. Lmao
@@Takejiro24 I know, like with that scene with Dana and the pregnancy test for example. I'm talking about the way the fans hardly talk about how weird it actually is, but then give characters like Warren a hard time for standing near the building where Max is staying at to wait for her, even though all the kids, both boys and girls, have hung out in that same area.
@@memo-fq3ps It might be because one plays Max, the main protagonist and are blind to her and their (the players) actions. Although not all people are blind to the protagonist’s behavior or actions.
Honestly after rewatching the game recently the biggest red flag to me about Chloe is the way she keeps pushing max no matter how many times max tells her no. Even in the second episode max keeps telling her her powers aren’t a toy and shouldn’t be abused, and of course Chloe tells her she’s being too careful and pretty guilt trips her into playing dumb irresponsible games with them that put them both in danger. And because of that max ends up feeling ill for one thing, which Chloe doesn’t really seem to care or be concerned about, and it almost stops her from being able to save Kate later on that day when her powers stop working. Like that was pretty much entirely Chloe’s fault. It just gives dubious consent vibes and leaves a sour taste in my mouth
Yep plus the fact that she got mad for us to answer a phone call from someone who is cyber-bullied is already a red flag. Like bruh I get that she don't get enough attention but does her being a total dick are completely necessary? Tbh it would make it more interesting if later on Max flipped out at Chloe later on and put their friendship at hiatus as result. Like I don't hate the idea of them being together but at least if we are expecting to like a character at least make them relatable to us.
@@gaming1zanagi-1999 The phone call scene pissed me off sooo much. I liked how Chloe apologised in the hospital (if u save Kate) about being a bitch if u answer the call but she didn’t in the ending where Kate dies and I feel that’s where an apology was really due.
I like how Chloe notices that Max is getting nosebleed for using her power and her immediate reaction is "LET'S USE THIS POWER *MORE* FOR *FUN* " AND EVEN MAX IS LIKE "HEY, MAYBE LET'S *NOT* "
Honestly I hated the game ending because you either: Save bay: The whole game's story is reversed and never happens and the relationships made were for nothing Save "bae": The whole town dies and all the relationships formed were for nothing except for Chole
But when you save the Bay at least you don't have the weight of hundreds dead because of your actions. That and you can basically get closer to everyone again cause you know a lot about them. Still that choice did suck.
Its very simple. Max is highly nostalgic, holding onto memories of Chloe before William died. She believes that what she wants is there, buried under a lot of crazy. Thats why shes So clingy. She sees Chloe through a super strong emotional filter.
@@alisamrk max sees Chloe as love interest unrequited and always sacrificial to her with dying loyalty. Chloe too is the same for Rachel amber, tho Rachel has been seeing someone aka the meth head. So by conclusion what real through removing filters. There both same coins with opposite behaviors. And max is Willing to fuck all for Chloe while Chloe is reshaping max as a replacement doll. Giving her confidence and bravado that evokes the same Rachel attitude. And it's quite sad that if you sacrificed bay. It truly means it further solidify Max's unbreakable will to drop all of her life just only for Chloe while in bae you have to nod to Chloe being selfish of saving everyone at the expenses of Max's total sanity. If dontnod made a secret third option it may been someone more a bit palatable for the ending choice being forced feed
i think also Max realizes Chloe is a very broken person from how she grew up yes i know that's not an excuse but point is Max an still see the old Chloe in her even if Chloe doesn't see it herself plus Max has alot of guilt for abandoning her and cutting contact and probably blames herself for how Chloe turned out
All of the characters are "cool" by doing drugs, having sex, skateboarding, or being rich. I don't think anyone actually has a personality. Just references.
The friendship felt so deep when I was 13 but I now realize how toxic it was. Chloe being stuck in the past, putting Max in danger. All they do is talk about their childhood like come on we get it nOstAlgiA
@@danieschenkekraft7199 kinda accurate since sometimes it takes us years to reflect on stuff that happend in our childhood/teen years and realize how things really went on because we are little and innexpirienced. Same as we sometimes had to grow up to realize how our teachers/friends acted in certain ways, the same we had to grew up and expirience stuff to realize that Max and Chloe's relationship felt on the side of toxicity that we couldn't see because of pink glasses
@@intensestare5027 that’s the real irony right there. The person trying to move on has the power to live in the past, but the one who’s obsessed with it can’t. It’s like Midnight in Paris if it was his wife who got picked up in the taxi.
I knew this girl in highschool- she never took responsibility, never thought she was in the wrong, was rash and irrational, sarcastic in the hurtful way, needy, and needed to be taken care of and paid attention to by her romantic partners/friends at All Times otherwise she'd get mad that people werent paying attention to her. ...she said she looked up to chloe so much and that she was wonderfully written, and that Max was a pushover who should have stood up for herself and not been so dramatic...the exact same shit she said about her then partner. She said she wanted to make something as good as life is strange because it was her favorite game. ...yanno, looking back? It makes sense why she liked chloe so much, goddamn.
Get out of town. I had a friend in high school who was EXACTLY like that. He even said the same thing about him wanting to make a game just like LIS because it was his favorite video game, and his personality is also very similar to Chloe's. Your former friend and my former friend should get married or something. Lmao
@@ヴァリ-z3e or maybe they are depressed, have attachment issues, borderline personality or any other kind of mental illness. It is hard to judge from the outside and you don't need to like these people, but maybe you could think about what they had to experience in order to end up like this. People don't choose to behave like this and they can't just stop
@@VeWatchesVideos yessss there sure is an issue with taking responsibility. And no one is forced to stay with these people. But some people still like their friends with mental disroders and are willing to get through these hard phases. It's totally fine if most people don't want to, but you should also take into account that there are people who are genuinely willing to stay with "bad" friends. Not taking responsibility is a symptom of many disorders, but people can't just change on their own.
I honestly had to come back to this video cuz ever since this whole thing about Double Exposure and Chloe not being in it I had to remind myself why Chloe not being there would not bother me and more people need to realize she's not that great and I'm ready for it
@@extremegrieferbibleThat game is pretty trash, even if she is not in it, the devs screwed everything in it. I watched some longplays of the two episodes, yeah... Save your money.
Warren was a better friend and I hate how the fandom made him out to be a stalker creep for having a crush. Also, she could've just saved Chloe and warned the town of Jefferson AND the tornado.
Yellamo Kcin honestly, I do like Chloe but she’s not a good person. I personally love Warren because he was the only person who put hands on Nathan’s crazy ass and he took a hit to get Max out the way. I wish he got more recognition
i think it was canon that he was a little obsessed with Max tho. there was an easter egg where we see the inside of warren's locker and it's covered in pictures of Max. i could be wrong
Abigail Mun it was in the nightmare but in the game there was a picture of max and him and if I remember she was creeped out by it, but i don’t think he was obsessed with her. Warren just had a crush on max
Agreed! Ive seen a ton of people ship max & chloe/ chloe & rachel, because LGBTQ recognition, thinking it's homophobic to insinuate max or Rachel didn't work as realistic love interests ... but it's actually homophobic to suggest a character that reads 100% lesbian (Chloe), falls in love with any female that gets close to her. Maybe Gen z (younger generation) has a different POV because they're more accepting, so they haven't experienced the arguments it took to get there, but a big message from LGB people was that they are just like straights -- not falling in love with everyone that's same sex, just because they're the same sex (like how straights don't just fall in love with everyone they meet that's the opposite sex). It takes away from the story to have both girl duos be in love, just because they're close. Females in general don't get many adventure stories together (which played a big part in the popularity of Frozen), so to jump to every relationship being romantic, feels like the same thing straight stories fall prey to constantly -- we can't get a good story about female friends without some type of romance. I totally buy Chloe being a lesbian (which might've been great story telling about how she fell for Rachel who was shady & might not have felt the same) but to have her fall for her only 2 friends that are girls, despite the low chances of that (just like how straights aren't in love/ in a relationship with everyone the opposite sex) really cheapens even bothering with LGB undertones. It's an old trope that gays and lesbians will go for whomever is the opposite sex, with no regular friendships like straights can have.
Exactly!! She’s been using her from the beginning,ik that max ghosted her and everyone but she felt bad and guilty for it,she changed her-self she made up for it by saving Chloe multiple times and helping others…but Chloe just kept guilt-tripping her and manipulating her. It’s just a toxic relationship but the game shows it as if it’s a nice and cute lesbian relationship,forcing the players to be okay with it. And Ik that Chloe went thru a lot over those years,but she can’t use that as an excuse for being an a-hole to pretty much everyone.Waren,Kate and even David were better people/characters than Chloe and yet the game wanted Chloe to be on the spotlight…Always!!
That's not how I saw it at all, quite the opposite. Rachel was a replacement for Max. I saw it as Chloe was in an emotionally vulnerable and lost place when Max left and never responded to her messages and texts. When she met Rachel, she attached hard to her to replace Max. Rachel was an illusion, which slowly unfolds the more we find out about her. And I think Chloe always knew that but she needed someone when Max wasn't around. I think Chloe always loved Max.
@@RR-on4sk isn't chloe bi? it's been a while, but i thought chloe was said to have been in relationships with guys before. it might be that she's female preferring, or that she just is wary of men in general because of all the violent men in her life, but i could've sworn she and max were bi girls in a lesbian relationship...
@@Leon-rk4rc I think dumb teens want to be like Chloe. Free, adventurous and rebellious, making nostalgic memories except going to school. That is what makes life is strange kinda dangerous. I myself caught myself loving the things they did together, like breaking into the pool. Teens my dude... just dumb teens
@@MaryArts They want a sense of freedom that they don't think they have. if i was in my teens and i would have toxic friends too, i would probably do the same thing. Grüße gehen raus Mary. Schön dass du deine Leidenschaft zum zeichnen nicht aufgeben hast.
i honestly like chloe and im not toxic. i just think she needs more love and support. i feel like after the ending (if you saved her) she is going to be with max and change for the better. she herself knows that she is a jerk
One really neat bit of attention to detail in the game is when Chloe decided outside of the school to look for Nathan, the second moon disappears which signals that she's going to die because the chaos would start to be corrected. I haven't seen anyone talk about that. A second moon manifesting is what causes the weather changes, the beached whales, dead birds, eclipse, and ultimately the storm. It's cool. Too bad the game handles so many things so poorly that cool things like that are totally overlooked.
I really wish they focused on Max changing as a person and her having to choose between her new friendships with Kate and Warren or her old one with Chloe.
Chloe was just a hurt character and before the storm explains so much of why she latched onto rachel, has resentment for max and why she put up so many walls. Kate and Warren hadn't been through nearly the same traumatic events. I mean Kate was on a roof after being drugged. Chloe had that done to her as well as numerous other things. She felt abandoned and she lashed out in unhealthy ways but she was by no means a bad person. Max was a bad friend to Chloe when she moved away which is why there is so much hostility in the friendship now. But if you notice, the walls were slowly going away by the end of the game. Oh and Max wasn't just friends with Chloe. She loved Chloe as more than a friend and she talks about it in her final journal page. Chloe loved her too.
@@OceanMetTheSky “Kate was on a roof after being drugged” are you fucking serious right now? I know this is late but just because Chloe got drugged as well and didn’t kill herself doesn’t mean everybody will have the same response. Everyone responds to trauma differently. Comparing their trauma too? Kates trauma is just as valid as chloe’s. Kate didn’t just get drugged (even if that was the only thing it would still be traumatic) she was drugged, sexually assaulted, kidnapped, humiliated in front of her peers, shamed by her family for something that wasn’t her fault, bullied by her peers and all in the space of at most a few weeks. But despite all the trauma Kate went through, she wasn’t a bitch to Max. She was still kind, even to those who’d hurt her. Chloe has had a rough life, but that doesn’t mean she can’t be a shit friend. Max and Chloe’s friendship is toxic. A lot of Chloe’s toxicity may stem from her trauma and that’s sad, but that doesn’t mean it’s not abusive and toxic. You can care about someone without realising you’re toxic but it doesn’t make it okay.
@@astralaurora4165 I don't even know what the purpose of your comment was. I didn't say Kate didn't go through shit. What I said was their lives are completely different and as you literally just stated in your own comment "everyone reacts to trauma differently". That means some internalize pain and some externalize pain. Chloe quite clearly did both and she also had genuine reason to not trust Max. How tf do you say their friendship is "toxic"? That word is so over used, I swear. Conflict does not always equal toxic... You're literally taking a span of 5 days in which the game takes place and judging an entire relationship off it and ignoring the circumstances. If I would pick a few days of anyones relationship whether it was platonic, romantic, family relationships, and chose the worst times, any one of them could be deemed bad for them or not a healthy relationship. Max and Chloe were close as ever all their lives up until after Max moved and their communication got lost. And when they do see each other, everything here is going on. It's ridiculous to say that people don't reach dark times or act in certain ways when they reach mental breaks. You're just deeming someones entire character over a week span in arguably the worst time of their life and also blaming Chloe for her distrust to max. It happens when you break trust with someone. Give her more 5 days to completely forgive her, jesus. This video and the responses are so dramatic. Take the worst time for someone and ask yourself how you view that person. Even in your own case, it isn't going to be too highly. Chloe saw the error in how she had pushed everyone away at the end of the game. Stop painting people as unforgivable monsters when they don't act in a certain standard according to what you consider a moral level of okay behavior. Max forgave her and understood her. It's why she also called her out on her bitterness but also understood the circumstances. Chloe herself realized it at the end too. As you said, everyone reacts to trauma differently. I agree and this is a prime example. Some do it healthier than others. It doesn't seem they are doomed to be "toxic abusive people" incapable of change or realization or even understanding.
@@OceanMetTheSky Firstly, I never said Chloe was incapable of change. She is toxic and abusive towards Max but that doesn’t mean she’s incapable of change. We can take the five days we saw as their relationship now because this is literally the first time they’ve talked in five years. Chloe had clearly moved on with Rachel until she went missing, Max had also moved on. Their relationship runs off of nostalgia. They’re two completely different people now. Their friendship has evolved into a toxic one, no matter how they were in the past. Chloe is clearly using Max as a replacement for Rachel and also a tool to try and find Rachel. She does not show concern for her when she passes out multiple times from using her powers, constantly berates her for being a pussy,expects Max to take the blame for her constantly and back her up,wants her undivided attention-what signs are there that this is healthy? Some of Chloe’s reactions are a result of her trauma, and that isn’t her fault (e.g. being clingy) but there’s no excuse for being a bitch to her mother, Max etc You can be a victim of trauma and still be abusive. Look at Nathan for example. We still condemn him for his actions but acknowledge his shitty upbringing and illness. Just because Max forgives Chloe easily, doesn’t make it right how she treats her. If Chloe still can’t trust Max or treat her nicely because she can’t forgive Max for the past then that in itself is toxic. That’s not healthy.
@@astralaurora4165 "Chloe is clearly using Max as a replacement for Rachel and also a tool to try and find Rachel" This is up for interpretation but my opinion is that it was the complete opposite. Chloe always had a crush on max even when they were kids/friends and when Max began ghosting her, she latched onto Rachel as a replacement for Max. Its also why she views Rachel in an idealistic way and almost refuses to believe that Rachel was lying to her or doing things behind her back. She made a version of Rachel in her head that viewed her much higher than Rachel obviously did considering what she did to her. It's also why she had such a fear that Rachel had just skipped town and ghosted her like Max did. Chloe and Max even as kids were never the same. They were opposites that balanced each other out, and that was still evident in the later years. Chloe would push Max to voice her thoughts more rather than keeping them inside and reserved and Max grounded Chloe and began slowly bringing her back down to earth and reality by the end of the game, making her realize she did actually always care for her despite how everything happened. Yes, Chloe acted like a total bitch to Max at points in the game. And it wasn't healthy behavior. But at that point, it was clear that Chloe felt like Max "owed" it to her to help find the person that was there for her when she wasn't. Did Max owe her that? No, not really. But Max herself was interested in finding Rachel before she even knew they knew each other. It was Max who became more interested when she found out Chloe was the blue haired girl everyone kept asking about. And I think her own guilt also made her want to help find Rachel. So was Chloe stupid at times, yes. But it was over a few days versus years of no communication from Max. Maybe she had her own shit going on. But most people won't take lightly to someone just cutting all communication with them at random and never explaining why especially in the most crucial time of their life and when they really cared about the other. So yes she handled things unhealthy at times but it was quite clear that even in the follow up game of LIS2, she not only made amends with Max. She also got close to David and David admitted he was half the issue. Chloe was over the top to her mother at times. But she essentially dated a drill Sargent that admits in lis2 that he treated chloe like a solider and forgot she was a teenager. David was also a polar opposite of her father. Its very common/normal for people to have issues with their parents remarrying or dating after a parental death or divorce. Its no centric to Chloe. It usually leads to a lot of anger in the beginning for many people. It was very obvious though that both Max and Chloe cared for each other and given that they are happily living in New York together in lis2 and that Chloe is an avid supporter of Maxs photography and rooting for her with her art exhibits and what not while also filling David in on all this shows that clearly she was able to emotionally mature, just like Max. She began letting people back in and not hating the world. Chloe needed to let go of her rebellion and detachment and Max needed to leave her safe comfort zone and otherwise sheltered view of life.
I thought that LiS was a cautionary tale about being traped in a abusive relationship, told from the perspective of the abused person, hence why Max always use the few good moments to justify Chloe shitty behaviour. The ending being a test to see if you learned the lesson or is still stuck to the abuser. Then the prequal makes you play as Chloe like she was a likable character.
I get scared whenever I see that scene with Chloe quickdrawing David's pistol, AIMING FOR MAX'S HEAD, while having no prior training or trigger discipline with firearms.
@Jay is gay Weather it was load or not you shouldn't points a gun in anyone's face, what if it was load and Chloe didn't know and she fired by mistake she would be responsible for her best friends death.
@@jennyr005 it doesn’t matter if it’s loaded or not. Literally the first thing you should know about gun safety is that you should never point a gun at somebody’s head (huzzah for common sense).
About time, even that scene where she wanted to steal funds for the disabled should have been an obvious clue. That was ignored due to her being a "queer" character.
I find that extremely sexist. Imagine if a man said that. It's disgusting either way, but Max never calls her out on it. If she said people like Frank, Nathan, and David, that's one thing. She just lumps all men together.
Well, Frank did pull a knife out on her, and basically choked Max, and his dog was about to attack them so she was justified in that. But Chloe definitely was reckless, and hypocritical with the gun
after that she was grounded down and felt very bad. she even couldn't focus on rachel. she said she is gonna go to the police and tell em she killed frank. also, that was selfdefence. just my opinion.
@@dustymuffincop Ok but she said that after a guy drugged her, raped her and tried to shoot her. "imagine if a man said that" im not seeing a bunch of people in this comment section bashing nathan for drugging her or trying to shoot her, or the literal abductor, or the drug dealer who tried to stab her
Chloe was not toxic or a bad person. Nothing she did in this game or said was incapable of redemption. She didn't process pain through healthy routes in years and as a result, built up many walls of protection.
@@madelinef2486 but the way she process pain, makes her lash out on others and that is toxic. Plus she always complain and never does nothing to improve herself or the situation she is in
@@oioi509 By the end of the game, she does admit her selfishness and anger and pain though is the thing. Hurting people is not right but when any person is in the lowest part of their lives, they can do and act out in ways that are out of character or harsh. She felt almost unphased by how she treated Max at times because she felt like Max did the same to her and didn't care. None of us can be judged by our 19 year old selves, especially not after going through so much. There is still so much time to grow from that point and Chloe knew that. She was just caught in unhealthy thinking and behavior and Max was showing her that. But she is by no means a bad person.
@@madelinef2486 thats fare, in the end of the game she does apologize, but its been to long to goo back and ignores everything that happened. And is not just because someone reconize their mistakes that the are ready to chance. And her past does not excuse how she acts
as a disabled person, chloe wanting to steal money from the handicapped fund and then becoming disabled herself seems like just a really ugly attempt at irony. or some shitty "foreshadowing" or something. idk, didnt like that haha
But what is wrong with that? It just shows that she didn’t have enough regard to not steal it even when the need for it was very high but she might actually need it herself in another timeline. And it doesn’t seem even that much connected, more like „anyone could be in need of those money”
You know what sucks? Chloe probably could've easily bonded with her step dad at a shooting range. She "bonds" with max in a similar way (really she just kinda fucks about for a few minutes and almost dies twice but the principle remains), and her dad could've taught her how to actually handle a firearm. There's a potential shared interest there that could've made for a really heartwarming scene, but instead it's "ugh dad's such an asshole why won't he let me steal his pistol in peace? Oh no the gun shot me!"
Yeah! And they also could've done so through fixing cars too. As much as I hate Chloe, there's no denying that she knows a lot about fixing a car, and she seems to enjoy it like her stepdad does. They could've bonded in the prequel in the first episode when they were fixing David's car, but it wouldn't have aligned with the plot of the original game then I guess. Aside from Chloe's spoiled and self absorbed personality, her and David have a lot in common. They could've gotten along almost the same way Chloe did with her real dad. It was a missed opportunity for a potentially great stepfather-stepdaughter relationship. Who knows? Maybe it would've made Chloe a happier and better person.
He fucking hit her if you stay in the closet. I have no doubt that he's done that before this scene and Chloe has every reason to hate him and even to resent her mom for marrying him. Chloe needs a therapist and to get the fuck out of Arcadia Bay and I'm saying that from personal experience.
@@EvanJefferson1 still. Y'all shouldn't be implying that Chloe should have to bond with an abusive parent figure just because they both have trauma and like 2 common interests he'd be too goddamn paranoid to partake in with her. Chloe Price deserved better and maybe if she had better role models around after her dad died she wouldn't have ended up this way.
I think the reason this story hit so hard for me was because I had a best friend that was EXACTLY LIKE CHLOE. All negativity, and if a choice had to be made, it was always the wrong one, and an expert at guilt manipulation on me to keep me around. This dynamic felt very real.
yeah thats the point, this game is basically meant to be a critique of toxic relationships and how people can often be blind to them because "pretty bad girl" or "edgy bad boy"
I remember at the end, when the option was given to save the town or save Chloe I scratched my head wondering who would choose to kill an entire town - family, schoolmates, innocent strangers - to save an awful person like Chloe. I would have sacrificed Chloe just to save Frank's dog.
”You have to sacrifice Chloe to save Arcadia Bay" Normally you have to give up something to free yourself of your abuser. Here you get a free city on top of your freedom.
this is so far fetched. abuser??? chloe had some shitty moments but if you actually explore the game you'd see that she apologized for them. like when she lashes out on you after you find out about rachel, or trying to steal money from the handicap fund. But those moments is not what makes her as a person. people are complex,not everything is black and white. let me remind you that max didn't text or reach out in any way for 5 years. if you look at the messages with her in before the storm, you can see that she would ghost chloe and that she would reply after a week to chloes messages until they stopped talking. but thats the whole point. they have flaws and no one is perfect . people need to stop saying that chloe is a poorly written character just because she's not perfect
@@petra3217 It is abuse 101 that you have nice phases that you later use for your gaslighting. We in the field call it Lovebombing. If an Abuser is terrible all the time, their cover would get blown and contact cut. But this way, victims can say "She isn't an abuser, she is nice sometimes!" like you are doing right now. Chloe is a textbook abuser, like an AI using a wiki entry of abuse to write a character. As basic as it comes. If you feel the need to defend such a person, I am worried where you would get such a mindset. Because usually that is trained. See where I am going with this?
“I don’t like being used like a supernatural toy” “Shut up, you’re my friend so you have to do what I say” Dont. Be. Abusive. (Also guns aren’t toys) It’s crazy that the game ships these two together
@SpiritedReverse i saw another comment that said that and i totally agree, the story shouldve developed at some point into chloe and max growing apart again and max recognizing she neglected kate and that shes goimng through a hard time (that being around ch 3 of course) and the game going in that direction from there, with kate. that could be great
if the answer to every stupid action in this game is "...but they are teens" then there is certainly a problem. its similar to "its a horror movie" when the actions make no sense by the actors. either way people can enjoy whatever resonates with them. But for me this was a terrible experience all around
Yeah, I'm a bit tired of the, "You can't say this person is toxic, because they're still young!" Excuse that they use. Of course, some young people are like Chloe, and mistakes of any kind in general are made at that age (19), but they should be held accountable their actions regardless. I don't care of Chloe is 19, or 12, 30, 40, 50, or 90. Whatever. Toxic people should not be excused for being terrible regardless of age. When you're 3 and do something bad, like hit another child or throw toys around, you face the consequences. Yeah, it may be normal for kids at that age, but they need to learn to stop before they to an age where they're way too old to be acting that way. No one says, "Oh, James hit his little brother with a toy firetruck. Oh well. He's three, you can't criticise him for it." Plus, using that "but they're teens" excuse to justify Chloe's behavior is frankly insulting to anyone around her age. Do these people honestly think that most teens/young adults are this selfish and entitled? Maybe some are, but they act like it's so normal to a point where it's justified because of their age. It's not normal to be like Chloe. I sure as hell wasn't like Chloe. I knew a few people with characteristics that were similar to Chloe's, but the majority of fellow peers I knew at the time are nothing like her. I was twenty when I played LIS, so I was only a year older than Chloe was in the game, and I couldn't stand her. Her traits aren't the "typical traits of an angsty nineteen year old". They're the "typical traits of a very toxic friend of any age".
@@memo-fq3ps Same. I was literally the same as Chloe when the game came out, and I just like her because she was "cool" looking and I had a blue streak in my hair. Otherwise, her comportement gave me the ick and I wanted more to be friend with character that REALLY needed help like Kate or Dana. Even Nathan needed more help that the blue haired freak
I... thought the point of Chloe was exactly to be the dysfunctional friend that's a toxic mess but, because you knew her since she was a child and you kind of idolised her for the "badassness" you lack, you just can't let go of? She's pretty much the reason shit happens on both a personal and cosmic level in Max's world, a true catalyst of chaos lol (Basically people empathise with Max on this relationship because Chloe is the only person Max can connect with)
@@Torp-N-Only Tbf finishing high school and going to college and university and getting a well-paid job isn't the only way of success. That's a capitalistic point of view. You're not a failure for stepping out of that path and that form of living makes us slaves of the system so we should be moving towards a different understanding of society and life.
@@rainbowandre9580 I was talking in the case of Chloe. She didn't get any success at all. Of course, I know there's famous people today that dropped their studies and turned out extremely successful, like Bill Gates who dropped out from friggin' Harvard.
@RainbowAndre Of course, of course. It's all in finding your own way in life. But Chloe just keeps messing everything up and getting herself killed in many scenarios. I don't think that's success. And then there's the choice of saving her at the end. If you do so, I'm sure she ends up finding that kind of success. Otherwise, there it stays. I understand your point, I was just making an exaggeration on the comment above calling dropping out of school being badass, as it isn't even close to that.
It's crazy that Max has seen Scott Pilgrim "a million times" but doesn't get that the movie ends with Knives dumping her boyfriend who disregards her feelings and uses her when it's Convenient for him because she realizes she's too good for him.
@@santi_super_stunts2573 In the book scot asks to have ### with her and she says that she's grown up and gotten over him though they do still make out and regret it seconds later. maybe they just got it mixed up?
@@lesdodoclips3915 Let’s be honest Max isn’t really that smart and neither as Chloe. I mean hanging out on train tracks and playing with guns WHILE DRUNK is dumb enough but the main stupid thing they did is after finding all the evidence in the Darkroom, they leave all the damn evidence and don’t even alert the Cops or better yet the FBI (considering most of the Cops were on the Prescotts payroll) about what they found and they don’t even alert them about where Rachel was buried and they later fall into one of the most obvious traps in Video Game-Movie History resulting in Max getting herself Kidnapped and Chloe Murdered🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿
@@santi_super_stunts2573 in the movie Scott tries to go back to Knives but she tells him to go to Ramona. Knives believes she's too good for him or at least says so
Some things that weren’t mentioned that really made me dislike her: - her “you know I believe in gun control” comment while being the one mostly parading around with a gun and threatening / shooting people. - asking max to kiss her after telling her to wear Rachel’s clothes, as if to replace her. -making Nathan immediately the bad guy when it all started because chloe tried to take advantage of him while drunk to steal some money. -using her father’s death to get sympathy while precious Joyce breaks her back to support her, who doesn’t studies or has a job. Seriously, I found everyone except Max and Chloe to be more likeable, and I’m actually irked at how quick people are to judge characters like David or Nathan. David did wrong at hitting her, obviously, but she did get on his face and it’s important to keep in mind he’s a veteran that struggles to incorporate into normal life, given by the self-help book you can find. Then you have Nathan, who not only has his father’s pressure to fulfil a role, but also the immediate hatred of most people just because of his family name. He’s on heavy medication, is shown to be getting worse and on top of that, there’s his drug use to consider. He was used and manipulated by those around him. His phone call to Max in which he was crying and apologising did more for me than Chloe ever did in the entire game. At least Nathan has some serious issues that can explain his shitty behaviour.
God the game tried SO hard to make you sympathize with her while also justifying her shitty behavior But characters like David and Nathan and Victoria get pushed to the side or shat on even tho they are faaarrr more interesting
Thank god somebody finally says it. Everybody talks about how amazing the relationship between chloe and max is and how amazing the story is. I found myself groaning more often than not with how absolutely irritating Chloe was as a person. Why am I supposed to like this person? Telling me that it's okay that I didn't take the blame for the weed then proceeding to guilt trip you about it later. I literally just looked at her and said "you bitch" when that happened. Not to mention the absolutely ridiculous decision of having to choose between leaving the diner and taking Kate's phone call. Like, is there a particular reason you can't take the phone call while walking to the truck? Or is Max's complete and undivided attention the main reason she hates you for it. She's selfish, arrogant, recklass, and completely careless for herself and Max. And Max just...goes along with it, making her just as frustrating. I'll never understand how this game got the praise it did.
I never really understood why people would choose to sacrifice the town. What about all the people Max spent the game getting to know? What about Chloe's mom, Warren, Dana, Alysha? What about Kate? Did we really try so hard to save her just to basically kill her in the end?? Even if Chloe was a better character, would you really sacrifice everyone else for one person? It's not even clear if it's over after the tornado hits the town. Why would that cancel out Chloe's death if she's supposed to die? For all we know Max will spend the rest of her life constantly saving Chloe from everything, and since the tornado has some sort of corralation to Max using her powers, especially when they are used because of Chloe, what's to say there wouldn't be more catastrophes in the future? Will they doom every city they go to? Geez.
One argument I keep seeing is that the town was corrupted and that's why they had to go. The towns people had flaws but not enough to murder them over. The corrupt Prescotts weren't a good reason to ruin the lives of so many. Some of the students at Blackwell weren't enough either. Hell Max does more damage to the town than they ever did if the player choses Chloe. The 2nd game and the alternate reality comic shows that the town was destroyed and people were killed during it. Another argument is because of their precious ship. Max can't sacrifice Chloe because she's her best friend and love interest. Because of that, it makes it right to kill the town off in favor of Chloe. What annoys me is that people don't think this is a selfish choice. What makes it even worse is that they think Max wouldn't be heavily affected by what she did.
I think the choice was between being selfish or selfless. Lets for a second ignore the fact that Chloe is written badly. If she was written well, the intended purpose of her character would be essentially a friend/lover. If this were the case, as is for some players, they would choose to save Chloe. This is because they put her life’s value above the town. This is a selfish choice, I am not denying that. Putting 1 person’s life over an entire town is selfish. But it is also what many people if a family/friend/lover took Chloe’s place would do. It is what I did for my first play-through. Because honestly, if it was my closest friend on the line compared to a town with people I either didn’t know or only knew as friends, I’d choose my closest friend.
This "friendship" was doomed the second, Chloe whipped David's gun in front of Max and pointed it at her. At this exact moment, Chloe went from a "troubled girl" to a "dangerous sociopath with absolutely no interest in others".
@@capt.crunch8944 Yeah, well if some media requires buying or consuming a separate production to understand a part of main story, then this media isn't very well crafted. Second thing: no amount of development justifies pointing a gun at someone's face for a joke. Let alone your supposed "best friend".
"We've been through a lot this last week" But actually from her point of view almost nothing actually happened, only Max has been through everything via the time powers
@@summerrose8110 u r so oddly obsessed with hating chloe. u have shown your toxicity so u have no room to talk. you also like nathan but hate chloe, its very creepy
The moment that really made me go, "Yep, I’d totally let Chloe die if the game gave me the option," was when you’re at the diner and Kate calls Max. Chloe gets all pissy over Max taking a quick 60-second call. Like, if this happened in real life, I’d straight-up call out my friend if they acted like I didn’t care about them just because I answered the phone for a minute, especially when we’re hanging out the whole day. What’s the logic behind that?
The logic is that she cannot let it go, when she should. Kate was suicidal and needed help, Chloe couldn’t grasp the fact that she is not the center of the universe and could have reached for a therapist, like everyone who are suffering does to work on those issues of her, including the car accident that happened years ago... But nope, would be too easy to stay broken and live in a perpetual cycle of resentment and jealousy, being totally in denial, it’s fine, everyone else have are the problem, not herself. If she is not abusive, her fans must explain who could get mad at their friends who cares for a friend that is suicidal and need cares and supports... Because i assure you, none else does that, outside of abusive people.
@@Bliss-l1toh great, she apologized. Round of applause for Chloe only for her to TURN AROUND AND BE EVEN MORE TOXIC WHEN YOU MEET UP WIH HER AGAIN. I don’t care how much my toxic friend apologizes for being toxic if they never WORK TO BETTER THEMSELVES AFTER APOLOGIZING. If you’re gonna apologize and then go right back to being the same selfish asshole you were before apologizing, you might as well never apologized in the first place. And that's what Chloe did Every. Single. Time.
It's funny how the LiS creators accidentally made a quintessential toxic and borderline abusive relationship. Complete with gaslighting and guilt trips!
They got it right, at least, but then I'm used to this XD This has basically been 95% of my friendships at this point. I assume that's completely normal even for neurotypicals though, even though they can fix things a lot easier because they know how to communicate. Just from my understanding. I'm just an Autist a year after being diagnosed as an adult so what do I know about communication despite my best efforts? I always seem to be the toxic one despite trying NOT to gaslight and guilt trip. If I think something I want to say is emotionally manipulative, I put it on the DO NOT SAY list. And yet the opposite always seems to have the same reaction. I'm still trying to figure out what my 5-10-year long platonic relationships wanted me to fix in 4 months as we all learned the diagnosis when I didn't even know there were problems until they all ganged up on me yelling at me about years worth of build up of problems before leaving me to just guess my way through it with no way to confirm if I'm right or wrong. I know it's only been a year but still. Just gotta suffer through the bad ones to find the good ones. ... That IS natural and normal, right? That 95% of friendships are bad and toxic and probably borderline abusive? Or is it just me, and me doing stuff wrong I can't figure out how not to do?
Max has got way better friends then Chole, Warren And Kate, who are actually genuinely nice to her and aren’t a constant toxic snark factory one wrong word away from exploding, I wish we could have spent more time with the both of them, sure we spend plenty but even more dammit
Also Stella and Allyssa too, though they didn't interact that much. Most of the characters from her high school were mostly okay, aside from Nathan who's a bit crazy.
Dontnod: "But, but... we wanted the final ending choice to be 50-50! If we have more meaningful screentime with the other side characters like Kate, Max won't get to save her blue haired waifu!"
@@summerrose8110 He's schizophrenic? I know you're right about his dad, Mr. Jefferson, and the others abusing him, but I don't remember anything indicating that he had schizophrenia. I don't know, it's been a while since I've played the game honestly.
The whole thing with Chloe isn't a friendship. It's a stockholm syndrome. The dream sequence in the game literally goes through this with Dream Max bitching herself out.
Damn I actually related to Chloe’s line of “it has to be somebody’s fault or it’s all mine.” growing up I actually wasn’t able to handle guilt so I’d blame others so I wouldn’t get to a v bad place (I think it was honestly related to my bpd that wasn’t diagnosed at the time). Will say I went to therapy lol
bro as soon as a character that's done objectively bad things shows signs of mental illness it seems that people are way too giddy to blurt out "but theyre not justified for that!! theyre a bad person!!! theyre an evil psychopathic freak!!!" . this would be whatever on its own, but whenever a villain who's completely sane in the eyes of the viewer has some sort of self-perceived noble mission that's objectively wrong it's like there's a complete shift. like "he's wrong of course but like.. he's not EVIL... no one's EVIL..."
@funnylittlecreature well yes because a lot of the time people justify bad behavior, toxic traits and bad treatment of others based on the fact that they have mental illness. mental illness and struggling doesn't justify someone being a terrible person
Exactly, people shipping Max and Chloe never made sense to me i thought i was alone thinking this. Chloe kept pushing Max and bossing her around also I noticed that chloe was the one with the crush on Max not the other way around so maybe Max just went along with it maybe she thought she loves Chloe like that too but i doubt it .... Also even though the game is far from perfect I love the freaking hell out of max she's really relatable hehe.
@@pug_frost7246 Max is a good friend who puts others before herself. She is incredibly nosy but often uses her nosiness to help people. Ex: through nosiness she learns about Taylor"s mom's sickness and comforts her. Her nosiness literally saves Kate's life
It was creepy to me that right after she dared Max to kiss her, she made her wear Rachel's clothes. Like she was just using Max as a replacement for Rachel. Major red flags in that one scene alone.
The way Max clings onto her friendship with Chloe seems really unhealthy- sometimes people stay with people like that because they’re desperate to not be abandoned. Max will be dropped if she does one thing wrong, but Chloe can do a million bad things and still be forgiven because Max will take any excuse to make up with her for ‘abandoning’ Chloe. God, this reminds me of something from my personal life. It’s growing sad.
Yeah, when max was about to take the call from Kate, Chloe even says something along the lines of “don’t let your BEST FRIEND get in the way. Whatever, I have other people to hang out with too.”
Honest to god, sometimes I feel like people in comments and me played different games. Will be dropped if she does one thing wrong? Max can literally pick every single anti-Chloe option possible, reject her everywhere around, romance Warren, and she will still be most important person in Chloe's life
@@thewingedone1172 you do realize that's because the game doesn't have enough budget to actually create multiple timelines with their actions having consequences, right? whatever you choose, they still need to push the story in the direction they want. so however you treat chloe, the game will still have chloe caring about max because it's important for plot progression (even if contradicts chloe's dialogues and actions). but that alone doesn't say much about the character, it only does about the game.
The whole game I much preferred Kate way over Chloe, I would do everything with Kate and did not give a dam if Chloe got mad (spoilers ahead) I saved Kate first try and when i was given the choice I instantly chose to let Chloe die just for Kate.
@@Lilothestitch It's not really deliberately wanting Chloe to die. It's between sacrificing Chloe or Arcadia Bay and honestly I'd choose to sacrifice Chloe too. But if there was no need to sacrifice Chloe, we wouldn't do it.
When I played through the game, I had honestly no idea, that there was supposed to be a romantic connection between. When they had the option to kiss in the in end, I was so confused, as I just had seen their relationship as a toxic friendship
Hell, Chloe daring Max to kiss her out of nowhere in the third episode was toxic in my opinion. I'd feel a little uncomfortable if someone did that, even if it was a guy who I liked. I couldn't imagine having the audacity to pressure someone like that.
Non-lover playthrougher who saves the Bay here. I think its important to note the WHO that this game is technically "made" for. Troubled youths trying to control their lives in any way they can. These situations are frustrating because they're supposed to be that way for an adult who is already well aware of these toxic power dynamics. This game was hugely impactful for me. I played it as a senior. I was max, an art focused student desperate for acceptance from anywhere, especially those difficult to please. I was also chloe, reckless and angry without care for anyone elses thoughts and emotions. Their characters are an unfinished piece, theyre children. They fail to see what is in front of them in an incredibly realistic way. Nobody wants to admit how angsty and cringe they used to be, but this is 100% accurate ouside of time power shenanigans. They're idiot kids with the power of a god as a toy and no idea of the gravity of any action, and if they did realize it- that weight is cast aside for infinite redos in the form of time travel. Controlling things out of your grasp, including other peoples emotions, and finding that despite all the power you think you might have, the only thing you can really control is yourself is a pivotal point thats made and in my opinion the very core concept of the game. Its subtextual. There are several instances where you can call chloe out for being a jerk, but ultimately she is out of your control. She will be who she is, and you can choose to deal with the fact that despite common sense, she will be the person that she is in different ways. Shes not meant to be pitiable. Shes here to test how far max will go to fill herself with a sense of belonging, but thats just what i took away from it as a kid in an abusive situation at the time. Sacrificing her, while genuinely very upsetting to me, was always right. Doing what is right isnt always easy, and you cant have what you want and not ever make someone unhappy; and that what you wish for, the potential that you see in a relationship might not be there, and you shouldn't destroy yourself holding out for it.
Yess. This. I’m reading all these comments saying what *they* would do but it’s not about you guys. It was about Chloe and max and them realizing that they’re not responsible for everyone. Thats the trouble with trying to play hero. You WILL NEVER SAVE EVERYONE.
i disliked chloe since the moment she guilt trip me for answering kate's phonecall, and she really didn't redeem herself in any of the 5 episodes, and really didn't understand why some people saved her in the end anyways your editting style is really cool !
I really hated that, like it's literally just a phone call, and it was like two minutes. I don't hate Chloe but she definitely needs a serious chat with a therapist.
Well Max did ignore her calls for years how would you feel if you’re best friend did that and then ended up answering a phone call from another friend of hers immediately
@@asiafranklin9739 -I would respect his/her wishes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, if he/she wants to interact with someone else then fine, people have the right to choose whoever they want to interact with(they're *not* some sort of a tool/object that I own). -We could just have an open communication to avoid some misunderstandings. -Though that's still not an excuse to ignore someone who's suicidal.
@@asiafranklin9739 Just a few things I wanna say. 1. Ignoring her doesn't really matter. They weren't standing 2 feet away from each other and max has her own life as a 13 year old who's just moved into a NEW city. Friends drift apart and eventually stop talking as much as they'd hope. 2. If it were me, I'd let them take the damn call. They were hanging out with me for the day anyway. Losing a few seconds or minutes is nothing compared to the HOURS we are about to spend together.
The game wants you to feel emotion for a person who: Steals guns Lies Let’s you take the heat for her drugs Yells at you for answering your phone Compares her minor problems to suicidal girl Says hella Uses Max for her powers like a tool The only version of Chloe that is sympathetic is alternate timeline Chloe. I had no problem sacrificing her to save the town filled with decent people who, though they aren’t perfect, genuinely try to do the right thing. Be it Kate Marsh or David, they are leagues above Chloe.
The more I think about Chloe, the easier I find it to understand why God or Mother Nature or the Universe or _whatever_ wants her dead _so very badly,_ and the more unsettling I find it that not only does the game seem to want us to risk the lives of _an entire town_ to save her, a lot of people actually seem to _agree,_ even when _Chloe herself_ miraculously comes to the correct conclusion for what may be the first time in her entire life.
Anastas1786 the homeless lady and the fisherman are both worth saving more than your childhood friend. I felt more emotional impact from Sam Fisher’s daughter being alive than this- and she wasn’t even my main concern when playing.
To be fair she didn't know who was on the other side of the phone nor what they were going through and later if you save Kate she even apologizes for it lol
thiccy vicky, I think Max says who it is, but even if she didn’t that’s not normal. That’s the kind of thing manipulators and abusers do- discourage or prevent someone from speaking to a third party.
@@The.Orange.Wizard That's the problem here. I thought this was a great relationship but then this dude pulled the damn blinds back and showed me what was really happening.
@@bladehunter1097 It's really weird, isn't it? When we're young, these things just go over our head or we romanticize the crap out of it. Growing up does a lot of eye opening., like, holy shit.
that’s the part about the game i couldn’t fully grasp. Chloe is fun, sure. but she’s also manipulative as hell. There are so many times throughout the game she guilt trips Max and unless you choose your dialogue wisely she either will gang up on you, or just not even take you seriously. She doesn’t seem to change much either until her revelatory moment in the end of ep 5. She finally realizes that Max saving her in the first place is what’s causing all the problems in Arcadia Bay, and even tries to persuade Max to choose the Bay over her for the final choice. But this potential character building moment comes so abruptly and quickly that it doesn’t have as much impact as it could’ve had. If Max’s more lenient and cautious side rubbed off on Chloe more as the game went on, the final monologue from Chloe would’ve made even more of an impact.
Ngl the bad person bingo is actually a good template for making sure you write characters with flaws instead of making them an unlike able cesspool of garbage. Thanks m8 :)
I thought Chloe was a garbage human being from day 1. She can't be a real friend to anyone because she's never happy about anyone else's success except her own. Toxic sign #1.
![Ranting About Terrible Characters for 46 Minutes [Life is Strange VS No More Heroes]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7OJLpFeH7nM/mqdefault.jpg)
Yo!! Just wanted to correct myself before I spread more misinformation.
Ive been corrected and Frank and his Dog don’t have to die to get through that area. How previous puzzles were solved and others peoples play throughs made me think otherwise. Sorry about that!
Are you gonna review life is strange : before the storm?
There are tons of mistakes in this video but ok lol
@@Gilpow You could say some of the mistakes to help him correct himself instead of just say they exist.
Hey, I did notice something - I believe if you look in the cell phone in episode 1, Chloe reaches out to Max several times but gets delayed or no responses in return.
@@Gilpow i love when people say this and never back it up
So ironic how Chloe wants to steal the disability fund when in another universe, she'd need that fund as a paraplegic
But, Chloe decided to use the money for selfish reasons just like the principal so she is just as guilty as him. It kinda makes her no better, as other people actually needed it.
Sooo they’re both in the wrong and wanted to use it for their own personal use. Drugs and alcohol. Are you serious right now??
And stealing is NEVER justifiable. Unless it was yours then it’s not stealing but taking back
@@Jacson_23 Eh, if the principal was stealing the funds for his own personal use, I don't see why it's not justified to steal it from him. Why should a criminal have any more claim to what he stole than I? If anything, it's MORE moral if I get to spend it, because then at least the criminal isn't getting rewarded for his crime. That said, Max should have wanted to take it and then, you know, donate it to a legit charity or something.
@@BWMagus dude what even? If you steal from a criminal that doesn't make you any less of a criminal. Especially if you're just gonna do the same thing the criminal was going to do, which is to use the money for your own benefit when it doesn't belong to u to begin with. "if anything, it's more moral if I get to use it" is such a diluted thought it's baffling
One thing you forgot to mention is how Chloe completely sells out Max if she fails to hide in the closet when David finds the joint. She says its Max's pot and she gets mad at you if you say it isn't.
yuuuup
She basically assumes that you “owe her” for abandoning her and carries that mentality through the entire game ._.
Doesn't even discuss it beforehand, she just straight up 'oh it's Max's'. She gets mad that you don't want to risk your scholarship, AND her mum gets mad.
@Killah Frost18x Past trauma explains certain behaviors, but it doesn't justify them. I wish the right person would've come along and (figuratively) knocked some sense into Chloe.
Yes, in real life I wouldn't talk to "friend" like this ever again.
Maybe the writers didn't realize that being rebellious doesn't always mean being an asshole. Especially towards a childhood friend.
I’d say Wendy from Gravity Falls is a good example of a rebellious teenager done right.
If we're being honest all of you chloe haters are pretty slow.
Yeah I had a friend who seems rebellious on the surface but really she was just an asshole who hates her family (which I’ve seen to be flawed but loving and caring) and contorts her perception of any ex-friend or partner into someone who doesn’t deserve sympathy by finding fault in regular behavior or fabricating fault from regular behavior
@@Godloveszazaall you chloe meat riders are delusional .
@@Godloveszaza cope
I thought Chloe'd panic when Max blacks out and regret pushing her so hard and that it'd be a turning point for her character. But that would make too much sense I guess.
True but still even if she didn't learn from that at least later on she will once she done something so bad that Max had enough of her antics.
Not a bad thing
That is if max called put chloe for not giving a shit
But guess these writers can't do that
I think they wanted to write a girl who was a bit of a brat, but a lovable brat, who happens to be from a rough background and is going through some tough stuff and lashes out, but has a heart of gold under there. A sort of “She’s a jerk, but she’s my jerk” type of situation.
Unfortunately they forgot to put more time into the “lovable” and “has a heart of gold under there” part.
Edit: Holy balls I did not expect this to get so many likes.
weeby weeb i had a fucked up child/teenhood but you don’t see me stealing, doing drugs, abusing my bffs, and being a douche bad in general :] I never went to therapy to fix my broken mind, but I’m 20 (almost 21) and still doing alright. I had my moments but never once had i thought i should take it out on anyone.
Don’t excuse her bratty actions. It’s cringe and hard to see
@@roccoon9892 Her actions are explained by a horrible upbringing and circumstances, however that hardly excuse any of her actions, anyone is responsible for their actions regardless of their background, but said background does explain the why of it but shouldn't affect the outcome of judgements.
Rowan P. Lol actually play the game instead of listening to this video which is very biased cause this guy completely ignored a lot of stuff in the game and acted asif all the worst outcomes were like the default for Chloe which isn’t true Chloe does apologise for freaking out on Max for calling Kate and was very sympathetic in that whole situation if you saved Kate Chloe would be the one to take Max to go see Kate and would ask if Kate is okay when Max leaves. It is actually so easy to convince Chloe at the party to not go in i have never failed to convince her and she doesn’t automatically kill Frank and his dog it’s when Frank gets pissed off and his dog runs to attack them im pretty sure Chloe doesn’t even like it when this outcome happens and heck max could literally kill the dog earlier on in the game. All the crime and sneaking in to school and stuff is literally what im pretty sure a lot of teens wish to do and probably some have lmao
@Summer Rose You ought to reread what I said. I say that it explains her actions but doesn't excuse them, the judgement shouldn't be affected by the why of it, a crime's a crime.
the literary trope is called: Jerk with a Heart of Gold. Granted, I still freaking hate Chloe and don’t find anything redeeming about her 😓
Chloe being a bad friend isn't the issue itself. It's the lack of acknowledgement of this by the story.
Max is a much worse friend tbh
@@djgamez1412 how bc she couldn’t control a move? Was she expected to keep tabs on Chloe at all times? Lol
@@TheTiredhermit the messages on her phone show that she pretty much ghosted chloe and chloe had tried reaching out to her. If im remebering correctly even after living in chloe's home town for a decent time, she still doesnt reconnect until chloe is literally murdered in front of her. Max is canonically the kind of person who abandons her bestfriend while they are actively grieving their parent's death. Even if they were acquaintances actively ignoring a person reaching out in that situation is a dick move and they were according to the story close friends.
Besides that through max's dialogue and commentary she show's herself to be incredibly self-absorbed, naive, and just the worst kind of twee pretentious artist. Her midterm is definitely gonna be 30 minutes of unedited footage of a plastic bag in the wind
@@djgamez1412 fair I’d be pissed too
And the game force you to enjoy such toxic relationship too, gosh everything feels forced in this game.
“If it’s unhealthy, it’s realistic”
Ya I hate how so many stories especially in games treat the protagonist as the only person who should be held responsible. It’s a really terrible and annoying trait
Honestly it reminds me of when people say 'rape in history games are what make it realisitc.' But don't put the plague in, or dysentery.
@@JadeAnnabelArt where do they say that?
@@JadeAnnabelArt When did this happen?
That wasn't what this game tried to do at all.
well thats the thing, chloe was not suppost to live, you decided to bring her back and its because of your action that a storm destroys the town, it is entierly your fault so yes, it is all your fault
Chloe gets angry with you if you refuse to steal 3 thousand bucks for the disabled. That happens. That is a thing. Why is that a thing
And are we supposed to root for her? She reminds me of Micah from rdr2 and you know that is not a good thing.
@@robertramirez9251 Duuude she's female micha only stupid lmao
It's a thing because she's a child...
Why do people seem to pass over this obvious reason? Kids do stupid things, they say stupid things, they have stupid reasons for the things they believe in. They're kids.
"Oh! but I never...."
Yes you did. Yes you did.
You were once young and stupid too. You once got upset over something unreasonable. You once let your emotions overpower your mind. You were once young.
@@thomasshrum4006 Chloe is 19 in life is strange, you in denial plebian.
The funniest part is that stealing the money literally changes nothing. The frank encounter goes the same way whether you do it or not.
I still don’t understand how people would sacrifice a whole ass town, that means families and people who didn’t deserve this bs in general, for a toxic friendship/romance.
@Ashlyn Nicole lol me too. i don't really give a shit about anybody there except chloe. i would have done the same in real life if my parents and sister were out of town
Yer to be fair I don't care what this guy says I still love Chloe!
.
this is interesting
@Chance quick remind: never live somewhere near this people
shoutout to the chat comment on 19:07 "wait I wasn't paying attention why are we in a bunker wtf" lmao
Such a mood lmao
haha
Relatable tbh
LMFAOO
TV tr cd
"Stupid gun!", Max declares, chastising Chloe's stolen gun for having the gall to function exactly in accordance with the manufacturer's specifications.
interestingly enough that actually works pretty well if you put yourself in the mindset of codependency instead of healthy friendship with the two, cant risk blaming chloe so you blame the closest thing that chloe would go along with, if its the guns fault for existing, it cant be chloes fault after all, and thats Safe
Stupid gun! You make me look bad!
@@glowkirby OOOOOGA BOOGA BOOGA!
@ROYALTYZ Zzz exactly, lmao. i think max was annoyed that chloe was stupid, but more specifically; that chloe was stupid by bringing a gun, and the fact that a gun is generally a bad idea.
@The Xenomorphian CONTROL has entered the chat
I lost any sympathy for her after the way she response to Max telling her to grow up and reminding her that Kate just almost killed herself. She's straight up like "Yeah yeah Kate almost killed herself, big sad. Doesn't make me feel any better," Like WTF Chloe? Why do you expect people to be sensitive to your situation if you can't be sensitive to anyone else's?
you r so right. I forgot about thaaattt, how people can still love so much chloe?
True. I never forgave her for trying to set me up with the weed when my character stepped out of the closet. I was like “wtf” so i didnt cover up for her and didnt steal money for handicapped funds; she has then the gall to get mad at my character for not siding with her. This bitch tried to make Max give up her future for her tantrums and self interests. The only time i felt sorry for her was the alternate timeline.
if Kate killed herself, she still says the same shit. Even after earlier she was like "don't answer some bitch who you met in the school every day, and i have a many people i can hung out too". GIRL, are you serious? I'm surprised she didn't whined about Max's decision to answer Kate, like when Max didn't take the blame about weed. "you can always blamed me, like you did it with the weed" . IT WAS YOUR FUCKING WEED!
Depends on what u choose
The way in my play through, Kate actually did kill herself and Chloe said the same thing
If Kate had been in Chloe's place instead, it would have made an interesting story. Max could go through the story slowly helping Kate have more confidence while her and Chloe grow distant.
That's a really cool idea actually. I wish they had taken that route.
Kind of like a "that was then, this is now" type story/relationship, except it's all females? That would be somewhat interesting (more interesting than what we got).
Based on your choices, either Kate kills herself because you don't help her or Chloe overdoses because you don't help her. (Of course with a secret ending were both live.)
I was quite disappointed with how Kate's story ended I was more invested in Kate's story and Max's relationship with her than Chloe's. Near the end Victoria says she wants to go visit Kate with Max I would have liked to see scenes of that and also the impact it has on Kate and Max's relationship.
I also really enjoyed the development of Max's relationship with Taylor and Courtney and in general would have liked to see an overall change in Blackwell due to the decisions I had made.
@Summer Rose As the episodes went on I felt like the character of Max was changing or at least when she was with Chloe. I feel like Max's normal characteristics is being level headed and a reasonable person who just wants good for other and tries to help others. But it really frustrated me when her morality would be impacted when Chloe was involved when her thought process no longer makes sense and always favours Chloe without considering the whole picture. I feel as if maybe her guilt of not reaching out to Chloe in the past 5 years may have impacted her judgement. But I can understand this characteristic exists as I have many relatives or friends who make excuses and favour cousin's or friends regardless of the situation even when they're in the wrong, when biases aren't involved they seem to make rational decisions.
I also feel like only Chloe had input in their relationship and was completely controlled by her it didn't seem like Max had any control in that friendship.
I have just started playing before the storm so I'm not too sure about what happens in the game. I initially didn't play it back when it was released when I found out it was a prequel as Chloe was never one of my favourite characters but after replaying LiS I just want to experience more of the world I really enjoyed the detail and relationships outside of the main focus.
To be fair, seeing Chloe and Max's toxic relationship made me realise I was in one myself and sort of motivated me to leave so that's something I guess
EDIT: hens when did this get 12k likes????
That's great, I wish you the best!
I never thought about it like that. You make a good point. Also, I'm glad for ya.
That's great!
Flauros666 Z holy shit bro its hard to recognize that youre in an unhealthy relationship. sometimes you need an outside source to realize youre being taken advantage of no neef to be condescending aboutbit
me too actually! funny enough her name was chloe too haha
Chloe is the antagonist, she sets plot in motion, she’s an active obstacle in Max’s life and (spoiler alert) on one of the endings she’s the reason the city got destroyed.
she’s basically the antagonist that everyone is being pushed and forced to love
@@luxa_moved7247 So most of them?
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 What kind of games have you been playing?
@@enumaelish9193 A lot, and fandoms in general latch onto villains way too much
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 Because villains when written well are usually more interesting than the heroes.
I disagree with David being paranoid for no reason. A girl of Chloe's age is missing. He's probably afraid that Chloe or someone from the school would be next.
The reason I love these games is the characters are complex. David is not a bad person at all and he genuinely cares. But his entire belief system is antiquated and misogynistic which taints everything. The good news is he does eventually get his stuff straight.
Not to mention he's an ex-Vet.
Yeah, it’s actually proven that he’s correct about the conspiracy. He just also happens to be a misogynistic asshole.
Not to mention that a gun of his is missing, let's say chloe didn't end up having it (which if you go down a certain route chloe ends up losing it to a drug dealer pissed at her) that means a person has gone missing as well as one of his guns
@fallingxerophilous9870 he isn't really misogynist just a ex military dude who wants to protect his wife and new step kid who is rebellious and hates him
The moment the words "It's a shame this game couldn't have been about Kate Marsh." were spoken, I just had to pause the video and take a moment to gather my thoughts. That's... yeah. That's valid. Kate was a sweetheart and an amazing character.
Honestly, one of the only good characters.
When I played (I already knew about the story and ending, but I still decided to play and get my own opinion... And yeah, I didn't like it :V) I only cared for Kate and I even cheated to know the good options to get her to survive. If she was the was one of the protag, instead of Chloe, it could honestly be better.
Honestly I spent maybe an hour laughing at Chloe shooting herself and didn’t even think twice about sacrificing Chloe for the town. That’s a bad protagonist, especially when you sympathize with the person she considers to be an abusive step parent.
No offense but I wouldn't have even played this game if Kate Marsh was important
@@MaskOfLimbo Kate's pain that led to her depression: A video is leaked of her kissing boys.
Chloe's pain that led to real depression: Cat dies, Dad dies horrifically, bff moves, bff ghosts her because Chloe's mournful state makes Max uncomfortable, rich prejudiced school that Chloe experienced bullying from because she was a raggedy "scholarship kid" then expects Chloe to get over her father's death, mother moves on and dates an ex military type David. David snoop's through Chloe's room, makes sexist and ageist remarks, and even has no problem hitting her if you stay hidden in the closet, mom has no problem with that either. Chloe has one human connection Rachel, whom she worshipped and worked hard for, she saw Rachel get stabbed trying to defend her, and then Chloe trying to save Rachel's mother gets BEATEN unconscious by a big time game Criminal that made Mark Jefferson look like a privileged coward, after that dude is dead she has a small pleasant time with Rachel while no one else in her life is aware of what Chloe still has gone through. Then Rachel secretly dates Frank, after Chloe finds this out she finds the body of her beautiful beloved rotting in the same junk yard they spent so many memories in.
Hmmmmmm yeah the struggles of Kate are soooo memorable.
@@Gamer_Mama_0611 to be fair, some, if not a majority of those events were caused, indirectly or not, by her, and honestly, it sometimes feels like the creators put her through so much shit, just so she can be a terrible person and have an "excuse." Yes, it explains her actions, but it shouldn't allow her to treat people like garbage and undermine others. In fact, since she's gone through so much, shouldn't that mean that she'd know better than to undermine others?
Chloe is a very realistic character. She isn’t a very good person, and is very reminiscent of people that I’ve met. It is also very realistic that the character she takes advantage of is a person like Max.
The problem does not lie with her. A well written character can still be a bad person. The real issue is that the game will not let you acknowledge that she’s a bad person.
Agree 100%
Exactly. I actually don't even have a problem with Max going along with her ideas, neither for thinking that she loves Chloe (in any way), rather, with the gamw saying that's ok. I was in a friendship where I was taken advantage of, and I love it being represented, but I really dislike the save Chloe ending because of its message.
Yeah. I think "Life is Strange" does have good writing but One of the worst Executions I have ever seen
The narrative does not acknowledge it tho
@Zara Basantez It's like one of those shitty romance novels, lol. Naughty bad girl sweeps up an innocent chick and gives her life more meaning than she ever could've had before, now featuring: toxic relationships.
Their friendship literally runs on nostalgia and nothing else
And chloe uses that nostalgic against her
we've all been there
I think you mean
_hella_ nostalgia
Chloe is like a drug dealer. A nostalgic drug dealer. And you know how nostalgic is a hell of a drug.
“You have to do what I say cause we were friends when we were younger”
Maturing is realising Kate Marsh would’ve been a way more likeable and better deuteragonist than Chloe.
Kate deserved wayyy better :(
no offense, but she's not even allowed to watch r-rated films
@@primexd3838 relevance? doesn’t really change what i said
I know this comment is late, but I do feel LiS would be more interesting if there's no Chloe, rather Max's whole journey in high school, and she bonded more with Kate.
@@imaninamakhtar896 yeah I saw someone say that the game could’ve been more like choosing whether to stick with Chloe or Max going off and making better friends with other people like Kate and Warren. Then your solving different parts of the mystery depending on who you choose and that effects the ending. Like something like that would’ve been great imo.
kate who would turn to guilt tripping max if she didn't offer her the exact advice that she wanted? she isn't likeable at all
If the creators said "This game symbolises the decision between getting rid of a toxic friend or keeping them, & the storm is literally just Max's good karma and she can go back in time to choose to save herself or a selfish prick"
... Then I would applaud.
Then all the fans who adore Chloe would be pissed and those fans are the ones who buy the most merchandise.
Nah, I don't think so. They would never say it genuinely: the product talks for them.
They force us to see Chloe as a good person, even though she clearly isn't. So, for them, Chloe is a good and/or lovable person. That's what we see and that's what the game is saying to us. So even if they said that "the game symbolises the decision between getting rid of a toxic friend or keeping them"... It would still sound like they're covering their asses. I saw too many developers covering their crappy narrative with "oh but it's symbolism", or "oh you need to get metaphores" (this may be unpopular, but the first game I think of are Omori or Pocket Mirror). Your product needs to be CLEAR in its intentions, if it's meant for a big audience. I personally don't care that "the creators said this or that". Like I said, the product talks, you ("you" developer) don't need to.
If that's what they were going for, then the creators are geniuses.
Sadly that ain't the case, based on any of the interviews I've read about the game's ending. The creators were more concerned about teaching the lesson of "you can't make everything perfect" and shoving it into players faces as hard as they can, a well made ending be damned.
@@Elerantula_ So what your saying is they sould not make symbolism simply because you cant stand it? I STRONGLY disagree with everything what you said.
All being said this is the most overrated series I have ever seen, the game is a waste of life and time.
It always bugged me that Chloe got annoyed when Kate called like I genuinely had to put the game down because of course I'm going to make sure Kates okay
Yeah she was such a brat. I was playing with my best friend at the time and we thought she was actually going to ditch us if we picked up, we both immediately agreed that being there for our friend for the 30 seconds she needs us for os more important than the friend that can't handle us caring for anyone else.
I really liked kate better, tbh she's my favorite side character.. all this time tumblr and the fandom has been overhyping chloe, when i actually played the game i was actually frustrated on how toxic and guilt-trippy she is!
Oh wow I forgot about that! Yeah I don't know why she was so many people's favorite character, I never really liked her when the game came out but couldn't totally put my finger on it. Now that I'm older I can actually see all the signs of her being a manipulative and toxic friend...Especially since I used to have "friends" like that when I was growing up. Glad I'm not the only one
And like of course we're gonna be their for our friend! Like Max is allowed to have other friends Chloe, (also had "friends" like that who got jealous any time I talked to another friend and pulled that "But I'M your best friend!" bull)
I sacrificed chole just to get Kate back.
@@SilvercraftStudio you're right, if you sacrifice Chloe Kate won't die...
-Chloe shoots herself
-Max, completely monotone: "stupid gun"
I forgot how awful the dialogue was...
The line should've been,"Stupid Chloe."
She was shocked. The monotone reaction made sense.
Keyword: _reaction._
She can rewind, ain't a big deal.
@@josevinicius_prof Chloe was using Max for her power. She drank alcohol and played with David's gun on purpose, so she can use Max.
@@summerrose8110 sorry buddy, you can't make me hate her even more. I'm at max hatred already.
Interesting take. It's been a number of years since I played this game and I remember it touched me deeply. To me it didn't feel like I was supposed to sympathize with Chloe, on the other hand, I felt this overwhelming sadness for Max, I just wanted to hug her. I think the real tragedy that could be relatable for many people was watching this girl trying to save someone who is so obviously beyond saving, until she realizes that there's no saving her. Even though the game offers you a choice, the arc of this game is to sacrifice Chloe in the end.
Ugh, yes. It sucks Max went through so much and possibly gained trauma from what she had to do in order to get Chloe back.
If anyone’s played/watched PS4 Spider-Man, throughout the entire game Peter constantly blames himself for things way out of his control. I honestly think Max is very similar
I really liked Max, and I really related to her. Choosing to kill Chloe was barely a choice because I knew Max deserved better.
That's what I think. I think that was the moral that the creators wanted the players to figure out for themselves, and the last choice was sort of a test to see if you actually learned it. That's why that ending was longer and more impactful, rather than the ending just being, "Everyone in the town except David dies, and Chloe and Max just leave."
I think the lesson is about how you just have to accept the past, and tampering with time can mess things up. That's why we had the part where Max tries to save Chloe's dad and it causes Chloe to become disabled, or those parts where if Max overuses her power too much, she faints and gets the same vision warning her about the tornado. It all backfires any time she uses her power, even when she has good intentions. You just have to let things be.
The only thing that messes with this moral though, is that she still has the knowledge of Nathan and Mr. Jefferson kidnapping and drugging girls, and since the shooting scene in the bathroom happened after Mr. Jefferson's class, the changed timeline when she tells David about Mr. Jefferson still technically happened, so the time traveling still helped her, so....yeah. I don't know anymore. Maybe I'm wrong, actually.
@@mynameisreallycool1 I’m pretty sure when Nathan is caught after killing Chloe, he confesses to the police about Jefferson, it’s one of the pictures when you rewind back to the beginning, so Max doesn’t have to be involved
honestly this game would have been a lot more interesting if it was *about* their relationship being clumsy and unpleasant and based solely around nostalgia, how you feel tied to someone because you were close a long time ago and now you're incompatible, but that doesn't stop you from trying to recapture that feeling. solely focusing on finding a way to be the same as things used to be, despite the fact that you've both grown apart
Exactly! Instead, the game has the characters proclaim to each other that they're BFFs while one continues to manipulate and abuse the other. Yup, uh huh, sure.
Night in the Woods does this remarkably better, which I'm sure is SHOCKING.
To be honest, this is about how I interpreted the game. Not having many friends growing up, I just really wanted to find a way to rekindle their old friendship, since it doesn't really seem like Max has many other friends (like there's Warren, and then that's basically it?).
That's probably part of why I was so blind to a lot of the dumb thing Chloe did, though I didn't ignore all of them. Like yes Chloe, this call is important enough that I can stop talking to you for 10 seconds. Hell Max probably could've explained it afterwards, but it seems like she didn't even try.
That's is kinda the point of the story
Chloe is my least favorite character in the storyline.
She's incredibly rude and disrespectful to everyone. Chloe sees everyone has somehow against her, even in the smallest way.
She constantly shits on Max for not having her back(EX:if you had managed to hide in the closet, she tells you at first that it's good that her stepdad didn't catch you in the room but in the next scene she snaps at you for not standing up for her) or giving her enough attention(EX: She gets angry with you when you answer Kate's call, despite both you and Max knowing that Kate is going through a really hard time). Not only that but once she finds out about Max's powers, she treats it like it's a toy(EX:going to a junkyard to shoot at trash and telling Max to save her if anything bad happens).
But she also acts like Max moving was just to spite her when it wasn't. They were both 13 and where Max's parents go, of course Max is going to have to follow. Chloe honestly cannot let anything go and takes out her anger on everyone, even her only friend.
@Summer Rose and then gets pissed if you say that it isn't your weed
Summer Rose I let David hit Chloe because it’s funny.
Yeah but before the storm kinda let you see why
@@lilnutt5580 Before the Storm makes no sense. It was just there to introduce Rachel, which there was no point because you know she's going to die an awful death in the future.
And with the options for Chloe to be kind and try to get along with David don't belong. She talks about not getting along with him and not wanting to try to be buddy-buddy with him in the first game. That she was angry with her mother for trying to move on from her fathers death.
@@ravenconnli6618 ye, I guess that sounds about right.
Warren was extremely underrated and the developers did him dirty imo. He ALWAYS had Max’s back and I really wish we got to see more of him and the developers explored him and Max’s relationship more.
totally agree!
Agreed. Unfortunately there's a very vocal subsection of the _Life is Strange_ fanbase that want you to believe Warren was nothing more than a creepy stalker who was thirsting for Max.
This was why I believe _Before the Storm_ had to establish a new character called Elliot in order to highlight what a real creep was vs. an awkward socially inept nerd.
Yes, he was actuallyy favorite character
he's a WEIRDO he literally stalks her
@@bruzm how?
One point: Chloe's father dies WHILE Max is in the house. She literally sees Chloe break down and they move away right after the funeral (but you don't find that out until a DLC pack, I think).
One theme you didn't explore, and it's a POWERFUL one, is guilt. In Max's heart, she remembers her best friend (very BRILLIANT friend... look at Chloe's grades when she isn't punked out). She blames herself for not being there physically or emotionally for years. She only re-encounters Chloe because she happened to get shot in a bathroom she was in. Chloe is likewise driven by guilt because, on some level, she does know her life is shitty because of her own actions.
Guilt will drive you into bad choices and into keeping bad relationships. Chloe carries her own load of guilt, but that's obvious from her attempts to run from it rather than wallow in it.
Exactly.This toxic relationship is built upon guilt and Max is blinded by it and only stays becuz she wants to correct her mistake and make amends
@@zoipapadaki3320 The problem is not that ,but rather how chloe is a dick head and max just never acknowledges it.
The reason the Save Chloe ending is shorter is because they didn’t expect people to pick it
Isnt it the cannon one though?
@@uhoh7545 I don't think there is a canon ending since in the sequel your choice in the game determines the state of Arcadia bay do it will either be fine or destroyed depending on what your previous save data says
@@1810jeff I'm pretty sure they said it was canon
@@Billiebotts just looked it up apparently there isn't a canon ending because as a developer put it "Due to the way in which the first game ended, we didn’t want to canonize one group of players’ choices over the other - a sentiment echoed strongly by our community" There have been official comics that continue Max's story specifically the "sacrifice Arcadia Bay" ending but they were not made to canonize an ending. A second round of these comics were slated to release in October this year but they will probably be delayed to due to unforeseen circumstances so it's really still up in the air.
@@uhoh7545 it is technically considered canon because the comic series is considered canon, which follows the save Chloe ending. Though it's mostly because there's not much to say after the sacrifice Chloe ending.
Dude sounds like Yanderedev in an alternate universe where he went to college, finished Yansim, and became a reputable game dev/genuinely good person. In all seriousness though, great video, big ups!
Yup. 😂
I’m pretty sure that’s just Urick’s accent. Yandere Dev only talks like that because he’s under the false assumption that it makes him sound professional.
The good universe yandev didn't even make yandere sim, because he knew it was creepy
Yandev should hav just open sourced it
"Accent"?
The most interesting character for me was David. It was strange how the game tried to portray him as a villain most of the time. Part of how it tries to show Chloe as a good person. But throughout the whole game he was one of the few people I felt genuine sympathy for.
An example of just how good he actually is is when you tell him Jefferson killed Chloe. David takes his anger out on Jefferson by shooting the bastard, but at the end of it he blames himself. Yes, he is paranoid, but have you PLAYED the game? There's drugs, sex, etc. happening at parties hosted by Nathan whose family pretty much owns the school. The principal is a drunk. The teacher is a murderer, and creep. All this has resulted in the disappearance of Rachel Amber, Chloe's best friend, which David knows. So, he needs to find out what is happening and try and keep Chloe from being like Rachel was so she won't also disappear without a trace.
Also, either David dies along with Joyce via waterspout or David has to go home from his job as school security guard and tell Joyce that Chloe died on his watch.
He is a toxic, abusive prick. In real life no abuser is awful constantly and can do good things. Still abusers
@Summer Rose He illegally surveiled a 19 year old and her mother. He is verbally abusive and extremely hostile, a bully and just a horrible human being.
Summer Rose even if it’s only once they’re still an abuser. She does deserve to be hit though
Waves oh I got it for less 🥴 she definitely deserves it but it’s still abuse
Waves the definition of abuse is “to treat (a person or an animal) with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly” so this would qualify
let's not forget about the fact Chloe literally gets shot because she decided to mock and belittle a clearly unstable and armed individual
Natural selection at its finest.
Exactly. She cares more about fucking with people than her own (AND MAX'S) life.
Tbf she didn't know he had a gun with him
@MikMok That's why you don't insult strangers and especially dealers.
@@zxylo7862013 we weren’t as suspicious of kids bringing guns on school campuses
Still happened, but not as often as more recent times…
i think people were a little bit too much obsessed with this "cute lesbian couple" that they didn't want to notice how unhealthy this relationship was in the first place. besides the fact that this was one of the not many lgbt relationships from that time i think.
this is exactly what i think too, plus so many games before this would use lesbian/bi women as fanservice, so a lot of people were happy to see a game that didnt just use them for solely porn/sexual reasons
this, absolutely. i was a terrified preteen/early teen when this game was released and i was so deep in the closet, with no representation in any media, especially video games, whatsoever. this game was my escape, my safe space. i can not express how much this game and the community helped me accept myself and start expressing myself. that’s why, despite it’s flaws, this game and the franchise will forever hold a really special place in my heart.
@@minsqi I'm glad you're able to express and accept yourself nowadays, even if it was due to this game. I hope things are going well for you.
@GrabberBythePuss Can't remember if it was set in stone or not, but having Max kiss Chloe was at least an option in a later episode, and it's implied that if you choose save Chloe over the town that they leave it as a couple.
.
" I shot myself"
"stupid gun"...
most unintentionally pro-gun game ever made
"Only smart people like me should have a gun"
*Catches a ricochet in the sternum due to the misuse of a firearm*
"ow stupid gun why'd ya shoot me?"
i think it was pretty intentional. chloe also said that she belives in gun control but she should have one
@@bcunt2639 yeah I'd say it was played for laughs and it doesn't get recognized as intentional irony because of the overall tone of the game and Chloe's words/actions.
@@notinspectorgadget agreed
That´s what happens when you use the joystick to aim.
The game focused way too much on failing to make us sympathise with Chloe instead of focusing on the side characters like Nathan, Warren, Victoria and Kate who are way more interesting and could be fleshed out a lot more, especially Nathan, but the game wanted to force their relationship to the point where everything else got shut out.
nathan was my favorite character, and the entire prescott family storyline had so much more potential. after the final episode i felt robbed, because the previous episodes gave us so many hints about the prescotts, some native american stuff and a bunch of other shit (i don't remember exactly, it's been a while). they made it seem like this + jefferson, like it was all connected. and then they just seemed to settle for a cliche "i'm a creeper who takes pictures" ending. and all that potential was just completely wasted.
Małgorzata Szewczyk they were meant to give him a lot more character, even hinting in the trailer that he knew about the storm and was trying to figure it out himself, they instead took it all out because they rushed the final episode and now people see him as just as guilty as Jefferson,
Małgorzata Szewczyk and yeah he’s my favourite character in the game too, not many games want to explore characters with mental illnesses like him, and they instead went with the “mentally ill character is immediately evil” route with him instead of fleshing him out more, they instead focused on chloe and Max’s shitty relationship.
i think it was mostly due to the fact that the game isnt about maxs high school life. its about max learning to use her powers while figuring out the mystery of rachels dissapereance
wxtcher I agree that the game is based on chloe and max, but as a choice based game I think they should give the option to explore more into them and have scenes where it’s just max talking with them.
Don’t forget how she asks for a kiss immediately after telling Max to wear Rachel’s clothes.
that’s crazy i didn’t remember that at all
wait youre right holy shit
this is an insane take and it actually makes sense
I genuinely love your art for chloe and max, I love whenever they show up on screen. Especially max with her massive hair, and evil max and her expressions too
I think his drawings are better than the game's art. I know that's not saying too much, but I mean it's exponentially better.
Same here!
@cat I don't either, it's as bare bones with 3d art as you can get, with out everything being ripped from the asset store for place holders. The animation is stiff, the faces look like melted plastic, also very uncanny Valley, collision is weird to discourage exploration, I could go on with more, but do I need to? The fact that this is Don't Nod's second game and was backed by Sony, you'd think more care would have went into the project. Don't Nod's first game "Remember Me" looked a lot better, in every faucet, but didn't make enough to keep them a float.
I also love how as we get farther into the video the line art and coloring for the Chloe and Max sprites become more messy and less smooth.
Shadow Max is perfect.
I don't even feel bad for chloe dying. I feel bad for her mom :(
She lost her husband and daughter, it most feel horrible
Yeah, me too. I felt bad for joyce throughout the game bc she had to work hard to support her child and chloe just being an ass not realizing that she's not the only one whose been hurt by her father's death.
@@manko6739 Ikr
What's sad is depending on the ending it goes two ways for LiS 2.
*Spoilers*
Sacrifice Chloe : Joyce and Dave divorce
Sacrifice Arcadia: Joyce is dead
Why would you not feel bad for Chloe dying? She didn’t deserve to die?
@@Lilothestitch idk, the game never made me like her. I'm not saying she deserved it of course, but I didn't feel bad either.
I forgot how annoying it was to be a teenager. You know Warren got so much hate and was even painted as some creep by a lot of fans and I'm here like, this guy is super cool and is an awesome friend. I wish we got to bring him along to be honest. The whole time I was with Chloe I felt like I was in a toxic friendship from how hard I had to watch what I said so she wouldn't get upset with Max.
If you want to get technical, Max was the creepier one. You can make her literally snoop around everything in every bedroom she walks in. Look at their books, computer, everything. Chloe too, because she encourages her to do so to get the plot further. People say Warren "stalked" Max, but you have the option to have Max look through everything in his locker and bedroom without him ever knowing. How ironic that people are calling Warren "creepy" for having one photo of her in his gym locker when the only reason people know about it in the first place is because they went to the pool through the BOYS locker room AND looked into Warren's locker. Lmao
@@memo-fq3ps Funny that you mention this since the game points Max's snooping nature out more than once.
@@Takejiro24 I know, like with that scene with Dana and the pregnancy test for example. I'm talking about the way the fans hardly talk about how weird it actually is, but then give characters like Warren a hard time for standing near the building where Max is staying at to wait for her, even though all the kids, both boys and girls, have hung out in that same area.
@@memo-fq3ps It might be because one plays Max, the main protagonist and are blind to her and their (the players) actions. Although not all people are blind to the protagonist’s behavior or actions.
@@memo-fq3ps but hey I agree with you 100%.
Honestly after rewatching the game recently the biggest red flag to me about Chloe is the way she keeps pushing max no matter how many times max tells her no. Even in the second episode max keeps telling her her powers aren’t a toy and shouldn’t be abused, and of course Chloe tells her she’s being too careful and pretty guilt trips her into playing dumb irresponsible games with them that put them both in danger. And because of that max ends up feeling ill for one thing, which Chloe doesn’t really seem to care or be concerned about, and it almost stops her from being able to save Kate later on that day when her powers stop working. Like that was pretty much entirely Chloe’s fault. It just gives dubious consent vibes and leaves a sour taste in my mouth
Yep plus the fact that she got mad for us to answer a phone call from someone who is cyber-bullied is already a red flag. Like bruh I get that she don't get enough attention but does her being a total dick are completely necessary? Tbh it would make it more interesting if later on Max flipped out at Chloe later on and put their friendship at hiatus as result. Like I don't hate the idea of them being together but at least if we are expecting to like a character at least make them relatable to us.
@@gaming1zanagi-1999 The phone call scene pissed me off sooo much. I liked how Chloe apologised in the hospital (if u save Kate) about being a bitch if u answer the call but she didn’t in the ending where Kate dies and I feel that’s where an apology was really due.
@@astralaurora4165 yeah
I like how Chloe notices that Max is getting nosebleed for using her power and her immediate reaction is "LET'S USE THIS POWER *MORE* FOR *FUN* "
AND EVEN MAX IS LIKE "HEY, MAYBE LET'S *NOT* "
Honestly I hated the game ending because you either:
Save bay: The whole game's story is reversed and never happens and the relationships made were for nothing
Save "bae": The whole town dies and all the relationships formed were for nothing except for Chole
C H O L E
Bold of the game to assume we like Chloe enough to let millions of innocent people die.
It was a small town. Definitely not millions. Hundreds at most
Chloe is more than enough lolz
But when you save the Bay at least you don't have the weight of hundreds dead because of your actions. That and you can basically get closer to everyone again cause you know a lot about them. Still that choice did suck.
Its very simple. Max is highly nostalgic, holding onto memories of Chloe before William died. She believes that what she wants is there, buried under a lot of crazy. Thats why shes So clingy. She sees Chloe through a super strong emotional filter.
shit, that‘s so real
@@alisamrk max sees Chloe as love interest unrequited and always sacrificial to her with dying loyalty. Chloe too is the same for Rachel amber, tho Rachel has been seeing someone aka the meth head. So by conclusion what real through removing filters. There both same coins with opposite behaviors. And max is Willing to fuck all for Chloe while Chloe is reshaping max as a replacement doll. Giving her confidence and bravado that evokes the same Rachel attitude. And it's quite sad that if you sacrificed bay. It truly means it further solidify Max's unbreakable will to drop all of her life just only for Chloe while in bae you have to nod to Chloe being selfish of saving everyone at the expenses of Max's total sanity. If dontnod made a secret third option it may been someone more a bit palatable for the ending choice being forced feed
this was the perfect analysis of max's character holy shi
i think also Max realizes Chloe is a very broken person from how she grew up yes i know that's not an excuse but point is Max an still see the old Chloe in her even if Chloe doesn't see it herself
plus Max has alot of guilt for abandoning her and cutting contact and probably blames herself for how Chloe turned out
Tfw Max and Kate had more chemistry than Max and Chloe
THATS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING plus kates nicer so-
Yes !
@@astralaurora4165 I would have loved max and kate love story
I disagree but okay
Chloe loved and cared about Max
All of the characters are "cool" by doing drugs, having sex, skateboarding, or being rich. I don't think anyone actually has a personality. Just references.
Ehhhh, that is wrong
Kosta Danicic, actually itsgaylebxtch is right about their comment completely because E;R points out the same problems with Life is Strange too.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr So.....what?
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr ill also say,
so what? that is not a point,
You telling me you don't like DANK OG BUD? What are you, a nerd?
The friendship felt so deep when I was 13 but I now realize how toxic it was. Chloe being stuck in the past, putting Max in danger. All they do is talk about their childhood like come on we get it nOstAlgiA
It's quite interesting how we only understand some things in retrospective. Sometimes too late, though..
heh its funny bc max has time powers
@@danieschenkekraft7199 kinda accurate since sometimes it takes us years to reflect on stuff that happend in our childhood/teen years and realize how things really went on because we are little and innexpirienced. Same as we sometimes had to grow up to realize how our teachers/friends acted in certain ways, the same we had to grew up and expirience stuff to realize that Max and Chloe's relationship felt on the side of toxicity that we couldn't see because of pink glasses
Yea when i played it i really liked it but when i looked back i saw how bad it is, i think the concept was good but executed horribly
@@intensestare5027 that’s the real irony right there. The person trying to move on has the power to live in the past, but the one who’s obsessed with it can’t. It’s like Midnight in Paris if it was his wife who got picked up in the taxi.
I knew this girl in highschool- she never took responsibility, never thought she was in the wrong, was rash and irrational, sarcastic in the hurtful way, needy, and needed to be taken care of and paid attention to by her romantic partners/friends at All Times otherwise she'd get mad that people werent paying attention to her.
...she said she looked up to chloe so much and that she was wonderfully written, and that Max was a pushover who should have stood up for herself and not been so dramatic...the exact same shit she said about her then partner. She said she wanted to make something as good as life is strange because it was her favorite game.
...yanno, looking back? It makes sense why she liked chloe so much, goddamn.
They're called narcissists, if you're curious
Get out of town. I had a friend in high school who was EXACTLY like that. He even said the same thing about him wanting to make a game just like LIS because it was his favorite video game, and his personality is also very similar to Chloe's. Your former friend and my former friend should get married or something. Lmao
DAMN
@@ヴァリ-z3e or maybe they are depressed, have attachment issues, borderline personality or any other kind of mental illness. It is hard to judge from the outside and you don't need to like these people, but maybe you could think about what they had to experience in order to end up like this. People don't choose to behave like this and they can't just stop
@@VeWatchesVideos yessss there sure is an issue with taking responsibility. And no one is forced to stay with these people. But some people still like their friends with mental disroders and are willing to get through these hard phases. It's totally fine if most people don't want to, but you should also take into account that there are people who are genuinely willing to stay with "bad" friends. Not taking responsibility is a symptom of many disorders, but people can't just change on their own.
I honestly had to come back to this video cuz ever since this whole thing about Double Exposure and Chloe not being in it I had to remind myself why Chloe not being there would not bother me and more people need to realize she's not that great and I'm ready for it
Bae stans: "Oh no, Chloe broke up with Max? Fuck this game!"
Me: "What, Chloe isn't really relevant in this game? Fuck yeah, I'll buy it!"
@@extremegrieferbibleThat game is pretty trash, even if she is not in it, the devs screwed everything in it.
I watched some longplays of the two episodes, yeah... Save your money.
Warren was a better friend and I hate how the fandom made him out to be a stalker creep for having a crush. Also, she could've just saved Chloe and warned the town of Jefferson AND the tornado.
Especially since without warren everyone would be dead. People who like chloe are so delusional it’s absurd
Yellamo Kcin honestly, I do like Chloe but she’s not a good person. I personally love Warren because he was the only person who put hands on Nathan’s crazy ass and he took a hit to get Max out the way. I wish he got more recognition
i think it was canon that he was a little obsessed with Max tho. there was an easter egg where we see the inside of warren's locker and it's covered in pictures of Max. i could be wrong
Warren in depth isn't that great either, but better than Chloe
Abigail Mun it was in the nightmare but in the game there was a picture of max and him and if I remember she was creeped out by it, but i don’t think he was obsessed with her. Warren just had a crush on max
The romance doesn't make sense to me anyway, Chloe clearly loved Rachel and not Max. If anything she uses Max as a replacement.
Agreed! Ive seen a ton of people ship max & chloe/ chloe & rachel, because LGBTQ recognition, thinking it's homophobic to insinuate max or Rachel didn't work as realistic love interests ... but it's actually homophobic to suggest a character that reads 100% lesbian (Chloe), falls in love with any female that gets close to her.
Maybe Gen z (younger generation) has a different POV because they're more accepting, so they haven't experienced the arguments it took to get there, but a big message from LGB people was that they are just like straights -- not falling in love with everyone that's same sex, just because they're the same sex (like how straights don't just fall in love with everyone they meet that's the opposite sex).
It takes away from the story to have both girl duos be in love, just because they're close. Females in general don't get many adventure stories together (which played a big part in the popularity of Frozen), so to jump to every relationship being romantic, feels like the same thing straight stories fall prey to constantly -- we can't get a good story about female friends without some type of romance.
I totally buy Chloe being a lesbian (which might've been great story telling about how she fell for Rachel who was shady & might not have felt the same) but to have her fall for her only 2 friends that are girls, despite the low chances of that (just like how straights aren't in love/ in a relationship with everyone the opposite sex) really cheapens even bothering with LGB undertones. It's an old trope that gays and lesbians will go for whomever is the opposite sex, with no regular friendships like straights can have.
Exactly!! She’s been using her from the beginning,ik that max ghosted her and everyone but she felt bad and guilty for it,she changed her-self she made up for it by saving Chloe multiple times and helping others…but Chloe just kept guilt-tripping her and manipulating her. It’s just a toxic relationship but the game shows it as if it’s a nice and cute lesbian relationship,forcing the players to be okay with it. And Ik that Chloe went thru a lot over those years,but she can’t use that as an excuse for being an a-hole to pretty much everyone.Waren,Kate and even David were better people/characters than Chloe and yet the game wanted Chloe to be on the spotlight…Always!!
That's not how I saw it at all, quite the opposite. Rachel was a replacement for Max. I saw it as Chloe was in an emotionally vulnerable and lost place when Max left and never responded to her messages and texts. When she met Rachel, she attached hard to her to replace Max. Rachel was an illusion, which slowly unfolds the more we find out about her. And I think Chloe always knew that but she needed someone when Max wasn't around. I think Chloe always loved Max.
max is very strong "rebound" energy
@@RR-on4sk isn't chloe bi? it's been a while, but i thought chloe was said to have been in relationships with guys before. it might be that she's female preferring, or that she just is wary of men in general because of all the violent men in her life, but i could've sworn she and max were bi girls in a lesbian relationship...
had a friend who loved Chloe and wanted to be like her, funnily enough they treated me like an emotional punching bag for years. Chloe sucks
Hope you dont have to hang around this toxic person anymore. Glad you're making the right choices, wish you the best.
@@Leon-rk4rc I think dumb teens want to be like Chloe. Free, adventurous and rebellious, making nostalgic memories except going to school.
That is what makes life is strange kinda dangerous. I myself caught myself loving the things they did together, like breaking into the pool. Teens my dude... just dumb teens
@@MaryArts They want a sense of freedom that they don't think they have. if i was in my teens and i would have toxic friends too, i would probably do the same thing. Grüße gehen raus Mary. Schön dass du deine Leidenschaft zum zeichnen nicht aufgeben hast.
@@Leon-rk4rc Haha danke :D
i honestly like chloe and im not toxic. i just think she needs more love and support. i feel like after the ending (if you saved her) she is going to be with max and change for the better. she herself knows that she is a jerk
One really neat bit of attention to detail in the game is when Chloe decided outside of the school to look for Nathan, the second moon disappears which signals that she's going to die because the chaos would start to be corrected.
I haven't seen anyone talk about that. A second moon manifesting is what causes the weather changes, the beached whales, dead birds, eclipse, and ultimately the storm. It's cool.
Too bad the game handles so many things so poorly that cool things like that are totally overlooked.
I really wish they focused on Max changing as a person and her having to choose between her new friendships with Kate and Warren or her old one with Chloe.
Chloe was just a hurt character and before the storm explains so much of why she latched onto rachel, has resentment for max and why she put up so many walls. Kate and Warren hadn't been through nearly the same traumatic events. I mean Kate was on a roof after being drugged. Chloe had that done to her as well as numerous other things. She felt abandoned and she lashed out in unhealthy ways but she was by no means a bad person. Max was a bad friend to Chloe when she moved away which is why there is so much hostility in the friendship now. But if you notice, the walls were slowly going away by the end of the game.
Oh and Max wasn't just friends with Chloe. She loved Chloe as more than a friend and she talks about it in her final journal page. Chloe loved her too.
@@OceanMetTheSky “Kate was on a roof after being drugged” are you fucking serious right now?
I know this is late but just because Chloe got drugged as well and didn’t kill herself doesn’t mean everybody will have the same response. Everyone responds to trauma differently.
Comparing their trauma too? Kates trauma is just as valid as chloe’s. Kate didn’t just get drugged (even if that was the only thing it would still be traumatic) she was drugged, sexually assaulted, kidnapped, humiliated in front of her peers, shamed by her family for something that wasn’t her fault, bullied by her peers and all in the space of at most a few weeks.
But despite all the trauma Kate went through, she wasn’t a bitch to Max. She was still kind, even to those who’d hurt her.
Chloe has had a rough life, but that doesn’t mean she can’t be a shit friend. Max and Chloe’s friendship is toxic. A lot of Chloe’s toxicity may stem from her trauma and that’s sad, but that doesn’t mean it’s not abusive and toxic. You can care about someone without realising you’re toxic but it doesn’t make it okay.
@@astralaurora4165 I don't even know what the purpose of your comment was. I didn't say Kate didn't go through shit. What I said was their lives are completely different and as you literally just stated in your own comment "everyone reacts to trauma differently".
That means some internalize pain and some externalize pain. Chloe quite clearly did both and she also had genuine reason to not trust Max. How tf do you say their friendship is "toxic"? That word is so over used, I swear. Conflict does not always equal toxic... You're literally taking a span of 5 days in which the game takes place and judging an entire relationship off it and ignoring the circumstances. If I would pick a few days of anyones relationship whether it was platonic, romantic, family relationships, and chose the worst times, any one of them could be deemed bad for them or not a healthy relationship.
Max and Chloe were close as ever all their lives up until after Max moved and their communication got lost. And when they do see each other, everything here is going on. It's ridiculous to say that people don't reach dark times or act in certain ways when they reach mental breaks. You're just deeming someones entire character over a week span in arguably the worst time of their life and also blaming Chloe for her distrust to max. It happens when you break trust with someone. Give her more 5 days to completely forgive her, jesus. This video and the responses are so dramatic. Take the worst time for someone and ask yourself how you view that person. Even in your own case, it isn't going to be too highly. Chloe saw the error in how she had pushed everyone away at the end of the game. Stop painting people as unforgivable monsters when they don't act in a certain standard according to what you consider a moral level of okay behavior. Max forgave her and understood her. It's why she also called her out on her bitterness but also understood the circumstances. Chloe herself realized it at the end too. As you said, everyone reacts to trauma differently. I agree and this is a prime example. Some do it healthier than others. It doesn't seem they are doomed to be "toxic abusive people" incapable of change or realization or even understanding.
@@OceanMetTheSky
Firstly, I never said Chloe was incapable of change. She is toxic and abusive towards Max but that doesn’t mean she’s incapable of change.
We can take the five days we saw as their relationship now because this is literally the first time they’ve talked in five years. Chloe had clearly moved on with Rachel until she went missing, Max had also moved on. Their relationship runs off of nostalgia. They’re two completely different people now. Their friendship has evolved into a toxic one, no matter how they were in the past.
Chloe is clearly using Max as a replacement for Rachel and also a tool to try and find Rachel. She does not show concern for her when she passes out multiple times from using her powers, constantly berates her for being a pussy,expects Max to take the blame for her constantly and back her up,wants her undivided attention-what signs are there that this is healthy?
Some of Chloe’s reactions are a result of her trauma, and that isn’t her fault (e.g. being clingy) but there’s no excuse for being a bitch to her mother, Max etc You can be a victim of trauma and still be abusive. Look at Nathan for example. We still condemn him for his actions but acknowledge his shitty upbringing and illness.
Just because Max forgives Chloe easily, doesn’t make it right how she treats her. If Chloe still can’t trust Max or treat her nicely because she can’t forgive Max for the past then that in itself is toxic. That’s not healthy.
@@astralaurora4165 "Chloe is clearly using Max as a replacement for Rachel and also a tool to try and find Rachel" This is up for interpretation but my opinion is that it was the complete opposite. Chloe always had a crush on max even when they were kids/friends and when Max began ghosting her, she latched onto Rachel as a replacement for Max. Its also why she views Rachel in an idealistic way and almost refuses to believe that Rachel was lying to her or doing things behind her back. She made a version of Rachel in her head that viewed her much higher than Rachel obviously did considering what she did to her. It's also why she had such a fear that Rachel had just skipped town and ghosted her like Max did.
Chloe and Max even as kids were never the same. They were opposites that balanced each other out, and that was still evident in the later years. Chloe would push Max to voice her thoughts more rather than keeping them inside and reserved and Max grounded Chloe and began slowly bringing her back down to earth and reality by the end of the game, making her realize she did actually always care for her despite how everything happened. Yes, Chloe acted like a total bitch to Max at points in the game. And it wasn't healthy behavior. But at that point, it was clear that Chloe felt like Max "owed" it to her to help find the person that was there for her when she wasn't. Did Max owe her that? No, not really. But Max herself was interested in finding Rachel before she even knew they knew each other. It was Max who became more interested when she found out Chloe was the blue haired girl everyone kept asking about. And I think her own guilt also made her want to help find Rachel. So was Chloe stupid at times, yes. But it was over a few days versus years of no communication from Max. Maybe she had her own shit going on. But most people won't take lightly to someone just cutting all communication with them at random and never explaining why especially in the most crucial time of their life and when they really cared about the other. So yes she handled things unhealthy at times but it was quite clear that even in the follow up game of LIS2, she not only made amends with Max. She also got close to David and David admitted he was half the issue.
Chloe was over the top to her mother at times. But she essentially dated a drill Sargent that admits in lis2 that he treated chloe like a solider and forgot she was a teenager. David was also a polar opposite of her father. Its very common/normal for people to have issues with their parents remarrying or dating after a parental death or divorce. Its no centric to Chloe. It usually leads to a lot of anger in the beginning for many people.
It was very obvious though that both Max and Chloe cared for each other and given that they are happily living in New York together in lis2 and that Chloe is an avid supporter of Maxs photography and rooting for her with her art exhibits and what not while also filling David in on all this shows that clearly she was able to emotionally mature, just like Max. She began letting people back in and not hating the world. Chloe needed to let go of her rebellion and detachment and Max needed to leave her safe comfort zone and otherwise sheltered view of life.
Wow, I was too young to understand how bad of a friend she was.
me too man
Same, I’m sure I was 5th-6th grade when I played this game, now that I’m in high school I kinda see the game for how it is
@@intheloopsyute UMM THIS GAME CAME OUT IN 2016 I THINK, THAT'S ONLY 4 YRS AGO
@@cutiepie6796 it was 2015. And people can grow up alot in 5 years
@@cutiepie6796 plus by your math they would still be able to make it to high school
I mean... She did bad-mouth Kate when Kate almost committed suicide. And I couldn't see her as a good friend after that. So. Guess what choice I made.
Exactly Kate was on the breaking point what’s chloe’s excuse?
@@Gooberwares “m-my dad died and my mom wanted to move on! I’m suffering more than anyone”
@@Monamiinx it’s not like her mom lost the love of her life or anything
chloe se arrepiente de eso en el hospital :c
You made the smartest choice possible. Many of us would've done the same if we were in your position.
I enjoyed this game a lot when Chloe wasn't present. I wish we could have seen more of the other characters, especially Kate and Warren
Absolutely same here.
The kindest characters who got barely anything.
"Destiny wants Chloe to die"
Honestly I don't blame it
For real, I can’t believe there was an option to risk the whole town for her.
don’t you dare do her like that
@@Anne_one I did
@@OkOk-li2xh me too
for real I did not like Chloe with a passion
I thought that LiS was a cautionary tale about being traped in a abusive relationship, told from the perspective of the abused person, hence why Max always use the few good moments to justify Chloe shitty behaviour. The ending being a test to see if you learned the lesson or is still stuck to the abuser.
Then the prequal makes you play as Chloe like she was a likable character.
Doesn't help that some people actually thought it was a healthy relationship despite all the red flags
Whoa I see this game differently now
Chloe was also stuck in a toxic relationship with Rachel but then she became toxic too smh
@@krill5815 and that's on the cycle of abuse
EXACTLY. I guess somehow people liked chloe so much thst dontnod decided to make a game about her, but they shouldnt have did that.
I get scared whenever I see that scene with Chloe quickdrawing David's pistol, AIMING FOR MAX'S HEAD, while having no prior training or trigger discipline with firearms.
it wasn't loaded tf?
idk why everyone is so sensitive to that??
@Jay is gay Weather it was load or not you shouldn't points a gun in anyone's face, what if it was load and Chloe didn't know and she fired by mistake she would be responsible for her best friends death.
@@creativenamegoeshere1878 And probably would have moved on within 2 days or a week.
@@jennyr005 it doesn’t matter if it’s loaded or not. Literally the first thing you should know about gun safety is that you should never point a gun at somebody’s head (huzzah for common sense).
@@lilmao4482 kids just don't know about trigger discipline 🤦♂️
Glad to see more and more people realize what kind of person Chloe is. The new game proves that even more, even though further proof wasn't needed.
About time, even that scene where she wanted to steal funds for the disabled should have been an obvious clue.
That was ignored due to her being a "queer" character.
Chloe: men shouldn't have guns
Also Chloe: shoots a man and his dog just because they are the least bit hostile
I find that extremely sexist. Imagine if a man said that. It's disgusting either way, but Max never calls her out on it. If she said people like Frank, Nathan, and David, that's one thing. She just lumps all men together.
Well, Frank did pull a knife out on her, and basically choked Max, and his dog was about to attack them so she was justified in that. But Chloe definitely was reckless, and hypocritical with the gun
after that she was grounded down and felt very bad. she even couldn't focus on rachel. she said she is gonna go to the police and tell em she killed frank. also, that was selfdefence. just my opinion.
More like:
Chloe: men shouldn't have guns
Also Chloe: plays with a gun risking her friend's life, shoots herself accidentally
@@dustymuffincop Ok but she said that after a guy drugged her, raped her and tried to shoot her. "imagine if a man said that" im not seeing a bunch of people in this comment section bashing nathan for drugging her or trying to shoot her, or the literal abductor, or the drug dealer who tried to stab her
So I wasn't the only one thinking Chloe was a terrible "friend." Thank goodness.
She's a toxic person to Max. If you ever have a friend like Chloe, I would get rid of them asap
She always was
That's why I feel angry about this game...the public loves and support a toxic friendship...
I thought she was, UNTIL I watched the dlc with rachel
Suicidal friend? What about me, Max? I wanna go to the junkyard and play with this gun!
I remember having a "friend" and I was like "hey look! you remind me so much of chloe!" and you know, now I know why we're not friends anymore
Relatable
Chloe was not toxic or a bad person. Nothing she did in this game or said was incapable of redemption. She didn't process pain through healthy routes in years and as a result, built up many walls of protection.
@@madelinef2486 but the way she process pain, makes her lash out on others and that is toxic. Plus she always complain and never does nothing to improve herself or the situation she is in
@@oioi509 By the end of the game, she does admit her selfishness and anger and pain though is the thing. Hurting people is not right but when any person is in the lowest part of their lives, they can do and act out in ways that are out of character or harsh. She felt almost unphased by how she treated Max at times because she felt like Max did the same to her and didn't care. None of us can be judged by our 19 year old selves, especially not after going through so much. There is still so much time to grow from that point and Chloe knew that. She was just caught in unhealthy thinking and behavior and Max was showing her that. But she is by no means a bad person.
@@madelinef2486 thats fare, in the end of the game she does apologize, but its been to long to goo back and ignores everything that happened. And is not just because someone reconize their mistakes that the are ready to chance. And her past does not excuse how she acts
as a disabled person, chloe wanting to steal money from the handicapped fund and then becoming disabled herself seems like just a really ugly attempt at irony. or some shitty "foreshadowing" or something. idk, didnt like that haha
yeah i kind of hate when media uses a character becoming disabled as a tool for "karma" it rubs me the wrong way
Also, I really hate how they make people with blue hair being a problematic like Jinx from LOL and Arcane for example.
@@margarethmichelina5146 yea but Jinx is actually really well written. Chloe is just an asshole
But what is wrong with that? It just shows that she didn’t have enough regard to not steal it even when the need for it was very high but she might actually need it herself in another timeline. And it doesn’t seem even that much connected, more like „anyone could be in need of those money”
i do agree but i feel like her becoming disabled and eventually dying was to show that chloe cant be saved. even in an alternate universe.
”You have to sacrifice Chloe to save Arcadia Bay"
I would sacrifice Chloe for a soda and a bag of chips.
I would sacrifice Chloe for 1 bag of subway chips
I would just sacrifice her without any prompt to do so
Game: you have to sacrifice Chlo-
Me: Ok
Game: But you didn't hear the other choice.
Me: And?
I meannnnn....it’s gonna be a little bit different if chloe was actually your best friend that you left for years after her dad dies
I would sacrifice Chloe for Alexander the Great to move out of my sunlight. (hopefully gets this reference.)
You know what sucks? Chloe probably could've easily bonded with her step dad at a shooting range. She "bonds" with max in a similar way (really she just kinda fucks about for a few minutes and almost dies twice but the principle remains), and her dad could've taught her how to actually handle a firearm. There's a potential shared interest there that could've made for a really heartwarming scene, but instead it's "ugh dad's such an asshole why won't he let me steal his pistol in peace? Oh no the gun shot me!"
But then she wouldn't have some figure of authority to rebel against, because she's such a rebel.
Did I mention that she's a rebel?
Yeah! And they also could've done so through fixing cars too. As much as I hate Chloe, there's no denying that she knows a lot about fixing a car, and she seems to enjoy it like her stepdad does. They could've bonded in the prequel in the first episode when they were fixing David's car, but it wouldn't have aligned with the plot of the original game then I guess.
Aside from Chloe's spoiled and self absorbed personality, her and David have a lot in common. They could've gotten along almost the same way Chloe did with her real dad. It was a missed opportunity for a potentially great stepfather-stepdaughter relationship. Who knows? Maybe it would've made Chloe a happier and better person.
He fucking hit her if you stay in the closet. I have no doubt that he's done that before this scene and Chloe has every reason to hate him and even to resent her mom for marrying him. Chloe needs a therapist and to get the fuck out of Arcadia Bay and I'm saying that from personal experience.
@@franciswolin595 both witnessed scary shit, david saw his friend die, chloe heard her father die, both are wrong either way.
@@EvanJefferson1 still. Y'all shouldn't be implying that Chloe should have to bond with an abusive parent figure just because they both have trauma and like 2 common interests he'd be too goddamn paranoid to partake in with her. Chloe Price deserved better and maybe if she had better role models around after her dad died she wouldn't have ended up this way.
Being a victim of abuse is unfortunate but not an excuse to be a terrible person
Say that to feminists on twitter, I dare you.
(I regret saying this, some of them are pretty cool).
👏
@beep I don't have Twitter, actually.
@beep Have a blessed day or night. Depending on wherever you are.
YES
I think the reason this story hit so hard for me was because I had a best friend that was EXACTLY LIKE CHLOE. All negativity, and if a choice had to be made, it was always the wrong one, and an expert at guilt manipulation on me to keep me around. This dynamic felt very real.
yeah thats the point, this game is basically meant to be a critique of toxic relationships and how people can often be blind to them because "pretty bad girl" or "edgy bad boy"
I remember at the end, when the option was given to save the town or save Chloe I scratched my head wondering who would choose to kill an entire town - family, schoolmates, innocent strangers - to save an awful person like Chloe. I would have sacrificed Chloe just to save Frank's dog.
Pompadouuu
Bro, even if Chloe was a good person I don’t get how some people would rather sacrifice 100s of people over one person.
@@kiroonsmoon like condemning Joyce? Kate? Warren? Let alone the regular decent people?
@@soulstealer5625 mentioning Joyce reminds me that the funniest part about this is that even Chloe wants you to kill Chloe
Well actually if you really paid attention to the game that tornado happens regardless
”You have to sacrifice Chloe to save Arcadia Bay"
Normally you have to give up something to free yourself of your abuser. Here you get a free city on top of your freedom.
Exactly!
on the other hand... Arcadia Bay sucks. So really, what you're sacrificing is your chance to see that place swept away.
@@VeryPeeved Not really. Sacrificing Arcadia Bay is worse because Kate and Warren will be killed and these 2 are better friends than Chloe.
this is so far fetched. abuser??? chloe had some shitty moments but if you actually explore the game you'd see that she apologized for them. like when she lashes out on you after you find out about rachel, or trying to steal money from the handicap fund. But those moments is not what makes her as a person. people are complex,not everything is black and white. let me remind you that max didn't text or reach out in any way for 5 years. if you look at the messages with her in before the storm, you can see that she would ghost chloe and that she would reply after a week to chloes messages until they stopped talking. but thats the whole point. they have flaws and no one is perfect . people need to stop saying that chloe is a poorly written character just because she's not perfect
@@petra3217 It is abuse 101 that you have nice phases that you later use for your gaslighting. We in the field call it Lovebombing. If an Abuser is terrible all the time, their cover would get blown and contact cut.
But this way, victims can say "She isn't an abuser, she is nice sometimes!" like you are doing right now.
Chloe is a textbook abuser, like an AI using a wiki entry of abuse to write a character. As basic as it comes. If you feel the need to defend such a person, I am worried where you would get such a mindset. Because usually that is trained. See where I am going with this?
“I don’t like being used like a supernatural toy”
“Shut up, you’re my friend so you have to do what I say”
Dont. Be. Abusive. (Also guns aren’t toys)
It’s crazy that the game ships these two together
I felt so bad for Max, like... she was getting nosebleeds but still had to perform her trick for Chloe??
xJuliettex “hey hey, rewind for me or have my death on your conscience until you die of old age”
wxtcher but after max has the nosebleeds chloe keeps asking her to do crazy shit and rewind time.
@SpiritedReverse that would be a great ideia
@SpiritedReverse i saw another comment that said that and i totally agree, the story shouldve developed at some point into chloe and max growing apart again and max recognizing she neglected kate and that shes goimng through a hard time (that being around ch 3 of course) and the game going in that direction from there, with kate. that could be great
if the answer to every stupid action in this game is "...but they are teens" then there is certainly a problem. its similar to "its a horror movie" when the actions make no sense by the actors. either way people can enjoy whatever resonates with them. But for me this was a terrible experience all around
Yeah, I'm a bit tired of the, "You can't say this person is toxic, because they're still young!" Excuse that they use. Of course, some young people are like Chloe, and mistakes of any kind in general are made at that age (19), but they should be held accountable their actions regardless. I don't care of Chloe is 19, or 12, 30, 40, 50, or 90. Whatever. Toxic people should not be excused for being terrible regardless of age. When you're 3 and do something bad, like hit another child or throw toys around, you face the consequences. Yeah, it may be normal for kids at that age, but they need to learn to stop before they to an age where they're way too old to be acting that way. No one says, "Oh, James hit his little brother with a toy firetruck. Oh well. He's three, you can't criticise him for it."
Plus, using that "but they're teens" excuse to justify Chloe's behavior is frankly insulting to anyone around her age. Do these people honestly think that most teens/young adults are this selfish and entitled? Maybe some are, but they act like it's so normal to a point where it's justified because of their age. It's not normal to be like Chloe. I sure as hell wasn't like Chloe. I knew a few people with characteristics that were similar to Chloe's, but the majority of fellow peers I knew at the time are nothing like her. I was twenty when I played LIS, so I was only a year older than Chloe was in the game, and I couldn't stand her.
Her traits aren't the "typical traits of an angsty nineteen year old". They're the "typical traits of a very toxic friend of any age".
There are even people in the fandom who defend _Victoria_ with this excuse lmao 💀
@@memo-fq3ps Same. I was literally the same as Chloe when the game came out, and I just like her because she was "cool" looking and I had a blue streak in my hair. Otherwise, her comportement gave me the ick and I wanted more to be friend with character that REALLY needed help like Kate or Dana. Even Nathan needed more help that the blue haired freak
I... thought the point of Chloe was exactly to be the dysfunctional friend that's a toxic mess but, because you knew her since she was a child and you kind of idolised her for the "badassness" you lack, you just can't let go of? She's pretty much the reason shit happens on both a personal and cosmic level in Max's world, a true catalyst of chaos lol
(Basically people empathise with Max on this relationship because Chloe is the only person Max can connect with)
@wxtcher "Look guys! I made myself a failure in society! Ain't that fucking cool?!"
@@Torp-N-Only Tbf finishing high school and going to college and university and getting a well-paid job isn't the only way of success. That's a capitalistic point of view. You're not a failure for stepping out of that path and that form of living makes us slaves of the system so we should be moving towards a different understanding of society and life.
@@rainbowandre9580 I was talking in the case of Chloe. She didn't get any success at all.
Of course, I know there's famous people today that dropped their studies and turned out extremely successful, like Bill Gates who dropped out from friggin' Harvard.
@@Torp-N-Only We don't know that? And again, success doesn't have to be fame and lots of money. That's my point.
@RainbowAndre Of course, of course. It's all in finding your own way in life.
But Chloe just keeps messing everything up and getting herself killed in many scenarios. I don't think that's success.
And then there's the choice of saving her at the end. If you do so, I'm sure she ends up finding that kind of success. Otherwise, there it stays.
I understand your point, I was just making an exaggeration on the comment above calling dropping out of school being badass, as it isn't even close to that.
It's crazy that Max has seen Scott Pilgrim "a million times" but doesn't get that the movie ends with Knives dumping her boyfriend who disregards her feelings and uses her when it's Convenient for him because she realizes she's too good for him.
That never happens in the movie wth are u on ab?
@@santi_super_stunts2573 In the book scot asks to have ### with her and she says that she's grown up and gotten over him though they do still make out and regret it seconds later. maybe they just got it mixed up?
@@santi_super_stunts2573 it literally happens
@@lesdodoclips3915 Let’s be honest Max isn’t really that smart and neither as Chloe. I mean hanging out on train tracks and playing with guns WHILE DRUNK is dumb enough but the main stupid thing they did is after finding all the evidence in the Darkroom, they leave all the damn evidence and don’t even alert the Cops or better yet the FBI (considering most of the Cops were on the Prescotts payroll) about what they found and they don’t even alert them about where Rachel was buried and they later fall into one of the most obvious traps in Video Game-Movie History resulting in Max getting herself Kidnapped and Chloe Murdered🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿
@@santi_super_stunts2573 in the movie Scott tries to go back to Knives but she tells him to go to Ramona. Knives believes she's too good for him or at least says so
Some things that weren’t mentioned that really made me dislike her:
- her “you know I believe in gun control” comment while being the one mostly parading around with a gun and threatening / shooting people.
- asking max to kiss her after telling her to wear Rachel’s clothes, as if to replace her.
-making Nathan immediately the bad guy when it all started because chloe tried to take advantage of him while drunk to steal some money.
-using her father’s death to get sympathy while precious Joyce breaks her back to support her, who doesn’t studies or has a job.
Seriously, I found everyone except Max and Chloe to be more likeable, and I’m actually irked at how quick people are to judge characters like David or Nathan. David did wrong at hitting her, obviously, but she did get on his face and it’s important to keep in mind he’s a veteran that struggles to incorporate into normal life, given by the self-help book you can find. Then you have Nathan, who not only has his father’s pressure to fulfil a role, but also the immediate hatred of most people just because of his family name. He’s on heavy medication, is shown to be getting worse and on top of that, there’s his drug use to consider. He was used and manipulated by those around him. His phone call to Max in which he was crying and apologising did more for me than Chloe ever did in the entire game. At least Nathan has some serious issues that can explain his shitty behaviour.
Key point: Nathan genuinely feels bad.
Chloe? Nah.
God the game tried SO hard to make you sympathize with her while also justifying her shitty behavior
But characters like David and Nathan and Victoria get pushed to the side or shat on even tho they are faaarrr more interesting
Pretty spot on. Through actions alone Chloe's almost as much of a sociopath as Mr. Jefferson. And she's supposed to be the deutoragonist.
@@ezrawyvern6795 Protagonist Centered Morality Trope ftw
@@chaselanglands6757 Damn right.
Thank god somebody finally says it. Everybody talks about how amazing the relationship between chloe and max is and how amazing the story is. I found myself groaning more often than not with how absolutely irritating Chloe was as a person. Why am I supposed to like this person? Telling me that it's okay that I didn't take the blame for the weed then proceeding to guilt trip you about it later. I literally just looked at her and said "you bitch" when that happened. Not to mention the absolutely ridiculous decision of having to choose between leaving the diner and taking Kate's phone call. Like, is there a particular reason you can't take the phone call while walking to the truck? Or is Max's complete and undivided attention the main reason she hates you for it. She's selfish, arrogant, recklass, and completely careless for herself and Max. And Max just...goes along with it, making her just as frustrating. I'll never understand how this game got the praise it did.
I never really understood why people would choose to sacrifice the town. What about all the people Max spent the game getting to know? What about Chloe's mom, Warren, Dana, Alysha? What about Kate? Did we really try so hard to save her just to basically kill her in the end?? Even if Chloe was a better character, would you really sacrifice everyone else for one person? It's not even clear if it's over after the tornado hits the town. Why would that cancel out Chloe's death if she's supposed to die? For all we know Max will spend the rest of her life constantly saving Chloe from everything, and since the tornado has some sort of corralation to Max using her powers, especially when they are used because of Chloe, what's to say there wouldn't be more catastrophes in the future? Will they doom every city they go to? Geez.
One argument I keep seeing is that the town was corrupted and that's why they had to go. The towns people had flaws but not enough to murder them over. The corrupt Prescotts weren't a good reason to ruin the lives of so many. Some of the students at Blackwell weren't enough either. Hell Max does more damage to the town than they ever did if the player choses Chloe. The 2nd game and the alternate reality comic shows that the town was destroyed and people were killed during it. Another argument is because of their precious ship. Max can't sacrifice Chloe because she's her best friend and love interest. Because of that, it makes it right to kill the town off in favor of Chloe. What annoys me is that people don't think this is a selfish choice. What makes it even worse is that they think Max wouldn't be heavily affected by what she did.
I liked warren more than chloe lmao i would never sacrifice warren and literally everyone else just to save chloe
@wxtcher Both options are fucked no matter how you put it.
imo because all of the characters just annoyed me besides like, joyce, and she’s still kinda boring
I think the choice was between being selfish or selfless. Lets for a second ignore the fact that Chloe is written badly. If she was written well, the intended purpose of her character would be essentially a friend/lover. If this were the case, as is for some players, they would choose to save Chloe. This is because they put her life’s value above the town. This is a selfish choice, I am not denying that. Putting 1 person’s life over an entire town is selfish. But it is also what many people if a family/friend/lover took Chloe’s place would do. It is what I did for my first play-through. Because honestly, if it was my closest friend on the line compared to a town with people I either didn’t know or only knew as friends, I’d choose my closest friend.
This "friendship" was doomed the second, Chloe whipped David's gun in front of Max and pointed it at her. At this exact moment, Chloe went from a "troubled girl" to a "dangerous sociopath with absolutely no interest in others".
Yep exactly
That's only if u say the drugs are urs
And then she *shot Frank and his dog!* Sure she bawled about it for 2 seconds, but then it was basically forgotten afterwards
In the comics, she has quite a bit of development
@@capt.crunch8944 Yeah, well if some media requires buying or consuming a separate production to understand a part of main story, then this media isn't very well crafted. Second thing: no amount of development justifies pointing a gun at someone's face for a joke. Let alone your supposed "best friend".
"We've been through a lot this last week"
But actually from her point of view almost nothing actually happened, only Max has been through everything via the time powers
It's like Chloe manipulating Max while she's unconscious.
I thought that was Max’s subconscious saying that.
@@fancyb.p.6122 Nope. Her shadow version if herself was telling her common sense, Chloe was telling her to be a brainless idiot.
Honestly if I found my long lost best friend dead and uncovered a creepy secret bunker, I’d say it be a crazy week too
@@summerrose8110 u r so oddly obsessed with hating chloe. u have shown your toxicity so u have no room to talk. you also like nathan but hate chloe, its very creepy
The moment that really made me go, "Yep, I’d totally let Chloe die if the game gave me the option," was when you’re at the diner and Kate calls Max. Chloe gets all pissy over Max taking a quick 60-second call. Like, if this happened in real life, I’d straight-up call out my friend if they acted like I didn’t care about them just because I answered the phone for a minute, especially when we’re hanging out the whole day. What’s the logic behind that?
Nah cuz like if someone got annoyed at that to a obviously suicidal friend id completely ditch them and go hang out with the other friend 💀
Didn't Chloe apologize for that later on?
The logic is that she cannot let it go, when she should.
Kate was suicidal and needed help, Chloe couldn’t grasp the fact that she is not the center of the universe and could have reached for a therapist, like everyone who are suffering does to work on those issues of her, including the car accident that happened years ago...
But nope, would be too easy to stay broken and live in a perpetual cycle of resentment and jealousy, being totally in denial, it’s fine, everyone else have are the problem, not herself.
If she is not abusive, her fans must explain who could get mad at their friends who cares for a friend that is suicidal and need cares and supports...
Because i assure you, none else does that, outside of abusive people.
@@Romax-pg2isShe did, but that doesn't work for their argument that she is a terrible human being that deserves to die.
@@Bliss-l1toh great, she apologized. Round of applause for Chloe only for her to TURN AROUND AND BE EVEN MORE TOXIC WHEN YOU MEET UP WIH HER AGAIN.
I don’t care how much my toxic friend apologizes for being toxic if they never WORK TO BETTER THEMSELVES AFTER APOLOGIZING.
If you’re gonna apologize and then go right back to being the same selfish asshole you were before apologizing, you might as well never apologized in the first place.
And that's what Chloe did Every. Single. Time.
It's funny how the LiS creators accidentally made a quintessential toxic and borderline abusive relationship. Complete with gaslighting and guilt trips!
And made it into a "Best Friends Forever/Love Story"
honestly. like i love this game with all my heart but man, it seriously needs a rewrite. they needed better writers to begin with.
@@chaaaargh Better writers. I don't know about different actors or same actors. But keep Chloe dead for the entire rewrite.
They got it right, at least, but then I'm used to this XD This has basically been 95% of my friendships at this point. I assume that's completely normal even for neurotypicals though, even though they can fix things a lot easier because they know how to communicate.
Just from my understanding. I'm just an Autist a year after being diagnosed as an adult so what do I know about communication despite my best efforts? I always seem to be the toxic one despite trying NOT to gaslight and guilt trip. If I think something I want to say is emotionally manipulative, I put it on the DO NOT SAY list. And yet the opposite always seems to have the same reaction.
I'm still trying to figure out what my 5-10-year long platonic relationships wanted me to fix in 4 months as we all learned the diagnosis when I didn't even know there were problems until they all ganged up on me yelling at me about years worth of build up of problems before leaving me to just guess my way through it with no way to confirm if I'm right or wrong. I know it's only been a year but still.
Just gotta suffer through the bad ones to find the good ones.
... That IS natural and normal, right? That 95% of friendships are bad and toxic and probably borderline abusive? Or is it just me, and me doing stuff wrong I can't figure out how not to do?
I don't really understand why no one else seems to think this was completely intentional on the writers' and developers' parts?
Max has got way better friends then Chole, Warren And Kate, who are actually genuinely nice to her and aren’t a constant toxic snark factory one wrong word away from exploding, I wish we could have spent more time with the both of them, sure we spend plenty but even more dammit
Also Stella and Allyssa too, though they didn't interact that much. Most of the characters from her high school were mostly okay, aside from Nathan who's a bit crazy.
Dontnod: "But, but... we wanted the final ending choice to be 50-50! If we have more meaningful screentime with the other side characters like Kate, Max won't get to save her blue haired waifu!"
@@memo-fq3ps Nathan is schizophrenic, not crazy. And he's an actual abused boy by his father, Jefferson and Chloe.
@@summerrose8110 He's schizophrenic? I know you're right about his dad, Mr. Jefferson, and the others abusing him, but I don't remember anything indicating that he had schizophrenia. I don't know, it's been a while since I've played the game honestly.
@@memo-fq3ps IIRC it's likely based on the medication he has and some of his symptoms shown, but I don't actually remember.
The whole thing with Chloe isn't a friendship. It's a stockholm syndrome. The dream sequence in the game literally goes through this with Dream Max bitching herself out.
She never leaves Max alone, probably after chloe death she would haunt bitching over how Max is a bad friend
@@thelastcrow5660 You mean a toxic friendship that turns into an emotionally abusive relationship! Right? Right???
even the game said it itself
@@thelastcrow5660 Nostalgia doesn't really turn into guilt
@@thelastcrow5660 sarcasm,much
Could you not tell l was joking,here?
Damn I actually related to Chloe’s line of “it has to be somebody’s fault or it’s all mine.” growing up I actually wasn’t able to handle guilt so I’d blame others so I wouldn’t get to a v bad place (I think it was honestly related to my bpd that wasn’t diagnosed at the time). Will say I went to therapy lol
bro as soon as a character that's done objectively bad things shows signs of mental illness it seems that people are way too giddy to blurt out "but theyre not justified for that!! theyre a bad person!!! theyre an evil psychopathic freak!!!" . this would be whatever on its own, but whenever a villain who's completely sane in the eyes of the viewer has some sort of self-perceived noble mission that's objectively wrong it's like there's a complete shift. like "he's wrong of course but like.. he's not EVIL... no one's EVIL..."
@@funnylittlecreature interesting take. Just out of curiosity, can you give an example? :)
@funnylittlecreature well yes because a lot of the time people justify bad behavior, toxic traits and bad treatment of others based on the fact that they have mental illness. mental illness and struggling doesn't justify someone being a terrible person
Exactly, people shipping Max and Chloe never made sense to me i thought i was alone thinking this. Chloe kept pushing Max and bossing her around also I noticed that chloe was the one with the crush on Max not the other way around so maybe Max just went along with it maybe she thought she loves Chloe like that too but i doubt it .... Also even though the game is far from perfect I love the freaking hell out of max she's really relatable hehe.
I was so confused with the ship too. I thought Chloe loves Rachel and Warren would be Max's.
@@mapbernardo yes exactly
Max is a horrible friend that uses people and is very nosy.
@@pug_frost7246 Max is a good friend who puts others before herself. She is incredibly nosy but often uses her nosiness to help people. Ex: through nosiness she learns about Taylor"s mom's sickness and comforts her. Her nosiness literally saves Kate's life
It was creepy to me that right after she dared Max to kiss her, she made her wear Rachel's clothes. Like she was just using Max as a replacement for Rachel. Major red flags in that one scene alone.
“The real punishment were the friends we made along the way.” - thegreatestsun
I love the way you drew the two main characters there designs are so much more appealing
I feel the same
For some reason they remind me of Pokémon trainers lol
as someone with bpd i lowkey relate to chloe, though that doesn't mean she shouldn't be blamed, she just need therapy lol
The way Max clings onto her friendship with Chloe seems really unhealthy- sometimes people stay with people like that because they’re desperate to not be abandoned. Max will be dropped if she does one thing wrong, but Chloe can do a million bad things and still be forgiven because Max will take any excuse to make up with her for ‘abandoning’ Chloe.
God, this reminds me of something from my personal life. It’s growing sad.
Yeah, when max was about to take the call from Kate, Chloe even says something along the lines of “don’t let your BEST FRIEND get in the way. Whatever, I have other people to hang out with too.”
I’m sorry it happened to you.
Honest to god, sometimes I feel like people in comments and me played different games. Will be dropped if she does one thing wrong? Max can literally pick every single anti-Chloe option possible, reject her everywhere around, romance Warren, and she will still be most important person in Chloe's life
It was an abusive friendship
@@thewingedone1172 you do realize that's because the game doesn't have enough budget to actually create multiple timelines with their actions having consequences, right? whatever you choose, they still need to push the story in the direction they want. so however you treat chloe, the game will still have chloe caring about max because it's important for plot progression (even if contradicts chloe's dialogues and actions). but that alone doesn't say much about the character, it only does about the game.
The whole game I much preferred Kate way over Chloe, I would do everything with Kate and did not give a dam if Chloe got mad (spoilers ahead) I saved Kate first try and when i was given the choice I instantly chose to let Chloe die just for Kate.
Kate is an angel. 😌💕
Kate best girl
Kate is a sweetheart
Why would you want Chloe dead? She isn’t a monster.
@@Lilothestitch It's not really deliberately wanting Chloe to die. It's between sacrificing Chloe or Arcadia Bay and honestly I'd choose to sacrifice Chloe too. But if there was no need to sacrifice Chloe, we wouldn't do it.
When I played through the game, I had honestly no idea, that there was supposed to be a romantic connection between. When they had the option to kiss in the in end, I was so confused, as I just had seen their relationship as a toxic friendship
Yeah, like, they didn't seem like a couple at all, and they never act like it. And in the end they just kiss, like... why?
Hell, Chloe daring Max to kiss her out of nowhere in the third episode was toxic in my opinion. I'd feel a little uncomfortable if someone did that, even if it was a guy who I liked. I couldn't imagine having the audacity to pressure someone like that.
Non-lover playthrougher who saves the Bay here. I think its important to note the WHO that this game is technically "made" for. Troubled youths trying to control their lives in any way they can. These situations are frustrating because they're supposed to be that way for an adult who is already well aware of these toxic power dynamics. This game was hugely impactful for me. I played it as a senior. I was max, an art focused student desperate for acceptance from anywhere, especially those difficult to please. I was also chloe, reckless and angry without care for anyone elses thoughts and emotions. Their characters are an unfinished piece, theyre children. They fail to see what is in front of them in an incredibly realistic way. Nobody wants to admit how angsty and cringe they used to be, but this is 100% accurate ouside of time power shenanigans. They're idiot kids with the power of a god as a toy and no idea of the gravity of any action, and if they did realize it- that weight is cast aside for infinite redos in the form of time travel. Controlling things out of your grasp, including other peoples emotions, and finding that despite all the power you think you might have, the only thing you can really control is yourself is a pivotal point thats made and in my opinion the very core concept of the game. Its subtextual. There are several instances where you can call chloe out for being a jerk, but ultimately she is out of your control. She will be who she is, and you can choose to deal with the fact that despite common sense, she will be the person that she is in different ways. Shes not meant to be pitiable. Shes here to test how far max will go to fill herself with a sense of belonging, but thats just what i took away from it as a kid in an abusive situation at the time. Sacrificing her, while genuinely very upsetting to me, was always right. Doing what is right isnt always easy, and you cant have what you want and not ever make someone unhappy; and that what you wish for, the potential that you see in a relationship might not be there, and you shouldn't destroy yourself holding out for it.
Yess. This. I’m reading all these comments saying what *they* would do but it’s not about you guys. It was about Chloe and max and them realizing that they’re not responsible for everyone. Thats the trouble with trying to play hero. You WILL NEVER SAVE EVERYONE.
i disliked chloe since the moment she guilt trip me for answering kate's phonecall, and she really didn't redeem herself in any of the 5 episodes, and really didn't understand why some people saved her in the end
anyways your editting style is really cool !
I really hated that, like it's literally just a phone call, and it was like two minutes. I don't hate Chloe but she definitely needs a serious chat with a therapist.
I love Chloe and hated David Madsen.
Well Max did ignore her calls for years how would you feel if you’re best friend did that and then ended up answering a phone call from another friend of hers immediately
@@asiafranklin9739
-I would respect his/her wishes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, if he/she wants to interact with someone else then fine, people have the right to choose whoever they want to interact with(they're *not* some sort of a tool/object that I own).
-We could just have an open communication to avoid some misunderstandings.
-Though that's still not an excuse to ignore someone who's suicidal.
@@asiafranklin9739 Just a few things I wanna say.
1. Ignoring her doesn't really matter. They weren't standing 2 feet away from each other and max has her own life as a 13 year old who's just moved into a NEW city. Friends drift apart and eventually stop talking as much as they'd hope.
2. If it were me, I'd let them take the damn call. They were hanging out with me for the day anyway. Losing a few seconds or minutes is nothing compared to the HOURS we are about to spend together.
The game wants you to feel emotion for a person who:
Steals guns
Lies
Let’s you take the heat for her drugs
Yells at you for answering your phone
Compares her minor problems to suicidal girl
Says hella
Uses Max for her powers like a tool
The only version of Chloe that is sympathetic is alternate timeline Chloe. I had no problem sacrificing her to save the town filled with decent people who, though they aren’t perfect, genuinely try to do the right thing. Be it Kate Marsh or David, they are leagues above Chloe.
"Says hella"
Truly the worst offense of all
The more I think about Chloe, the easier I find it to understand why God or Mother Nature or the Universe or _whatever_ wants her dead _so very badly,_ and the more unsettling I find it that not only does the game seem to want us to risk the lives of _an entire town_ to save her, a lot of people actually seem to _agree,_ even when _Chloe herself_ miraculously comes to the correct conclusion for what may be the first time in her entire life.
Anastas1786 the homeless lady and the fisherman are both worth saving more than your childhood friend. I felt more emotional impact from Sam Fisher’s daughter being alive than this- and she wasn’t even my main concern when playing.
To be fair she didn't know who was on the other side of the phone nor what they were going through and later if you save Kate she even apologizes for it lol
thiccy vicky, I think Max says who it is, but even if she didn’t that’s not normal. That’s the kind of thing manipulators and abusers do- discourage or prevent someone from speaking to a third party.
I guess this is kinda realistic some people are just in toxic relationships and don't realize it
But the story still treats it as right, even then Max would realise it when confronting her ‘shadow’.
@@The.Orange.Wizard That's the problem here. I thought this was a great relationship but then this dude pulled the damn blinds back and showed me what was really happening.
@@bladehunter1097 It's really weird, isn't it? When we're young, these things just go over our head or we romanticize the crap out of it. Growing up does a lot of eye opening., like, holy shit.
that’s the part about the game i couldn’t fully grasp. Chloe is fun, sure. but she’s also manipulative as hell. There are so many times throughout the game she guilt trips Max and unless you choose your dialogue wisely she either will gang up on you, or just not even take you seriously. She doesn’t seem to change much either until her revelatory moment in the end of ep 5. She finally realizes that Max saving her in the first place is what’s causing all the problems in Arcadia Bay, and even tries to persuade Max to choose the Bay over her for the final choice. But this potential character building moment comes so abruptly and quickly that it doesn’t have as much impact as it could’ve had. If Max’s more lenient and cautious side rubbed off on Chloe more as the game went on, the final monologue from Chloe would’ve made even more of an impact.
Ngl the bad person bingo is actually a good template for making sure you write characters with flaws instead of making them an unlike able cesspool of garbage. Thanks m8 :)
Tbf a good quarter of it is top offending things you'd expect prison for.i think i get what you're trying to say tho.
@@madlink3495 We have had a fair share of likable murderers, I think it's still passable
@@LunaWitcher everyone deep down likes some Hitler once in a while. :)
@@madlink3495 I was thinking more of the fictional side of things... And Ted Bundy.
@@LunaWitcher its ok. I was being silly.
Max is that pushover social outcast who has certain friends and gets into trouble because she holds onto toxic people. So basically, all of us
speak for yourself pls thanks
I'm social outcast too, but I avoid people who I feel that are cruel. In high school, if I see you aren't a good person and I don't trust you.
*Speak* *For* *Yourself*
I'm a simple man. I see that people share my opinion about Chloe being an overrated character and a garbage human being - I leave a like.
I thought Chloe was a garbage human being from day 1. She can't be a real friend to anyone because she's never happy about anyone else's success except her own. Toxic sign #1.
I still can't believe people actually finding Chole relatable to his/her life, like are you guys this jerk when you on high school irl...?
@@ThePanda013 yes
Same. I legit did not care about her dying lmao. It was an easy choice in the end for me.