I really wish they make eevee next non-screenspace cuz there is not much meaning of EEVEE NEXT without that, its really needed, it can AT LEAST be like RTX UE4 system because its harder to make it optimized like LUMEN UE5, there should be option to define a diameter for screenspace so we can decide how much of screen it will take account, like a diameter parameter, so if we just wanna include things in a room it can calculate only the room instead of wasting rays outside the room.
Pretty sure hardware raytracing support for EEVEE is planned. Screenspace raytracing can't ray trace anything that isn't already on screen already doesn't do anything with stuff you can't see or doesn't have geometry. It's just like the existing SS reflection options (or the SSGI fork) but it handles diffuse bounces too. This isn't a replacement for Lumen, and afaik Lumen includes SSGI as part of Lumen. Lumen combines multiple GI solutions so you can get high detail GI from SSGI and more persistent GI from the rest the system, that's what light probe volumes are for. Godot also has a multiple real-time GI solutions including SSGI, so hopefully Blender can copy their homework a bit.
I agree with you man. The folks who already understood how this tech works all knew that the people getting overhyped for this and thinking they were gonna get a Lumen equivalent in Blender were going to be very disappointed. It was never realistic to assume this in the first place since Epic had a team of many people working on Lumen for over a decade compared to the one guy whos been working on this "Eevee-Next" for Blender. He did great work but the new Eevee cannot even hold a candle to UNREAL. For one thing, Screen space tracing in the way that its been implemented in EEVEE-Next is archaic even by modern standards. UNREAL and UNITY have been using this particular approach even before 2015. And UNITY has actually long since evolved the method by means of dynamic light probes, something that is FAR more effective and results in better visuals. Add the _actual_ real time Raytracing that UNITY is capable of doing in the viewport to the mix, and you've got something pretty powerful in combination. This really puts into perspective how far behind Blender is when it comes to real time technology, but we still gotta commend the devs for at least making it this far. By comparison, Lumen GI is a great deal more powerful just on a software level alone since it raytraces in real time against Signed Distance Fields (SDF's) which are voxel interpretations of the original meshes on screen. Thanks to this we don't get that horrible screen limitation since with Lumen, the screen space tracing is only used as a fall back. This approach results in far more accurate visuals right out of the box. The real advantage for artists and developers though is that someone can utilize these features without even having to own a raytracing compatible GPU. And it gets even better if you DO have a raytracing compatible GPU since the Hardware Raytracing as of UNREAL 5.2 is _actually_ tracing against the original meshes themselves. This takes the quality to a whole new level beyond what is available in Blender. And in terms of the new VSMs, where as it was done in Blender simply to improve the shadow quality, the Virtual Shadow Maps in UNREAL actually were developed around both LUMEN and NANITE. This was to get shadows to behave and react to light in a way more closer to pre-rendered visuals. Its certainly NOT perfect and just a WIP, but compared to what Blender is doing, its still leaps and bounds ahead. Add all of this to the fact that you can render EVERYTHING in seconds in UNREAL without having to worry about things like heavy geometry and modifiers slowing down your progress, its clear to see that Blender still has a very long way to go.
Eevee shadows can still be a bit blocky but they are much improved. That said - it does take a bit more time optimising scenes (And general "hackery") to get them looking good over a render engine like cycles or octane. I always just chalk it up to a trade-off - you get for really fast rendering speeds.
I compared new and old and new ones are more blocky and even if I increase the resolution (MB) it doesnt get better, so i hope it will be fixed @@Polyfable
Lumen is pretty OWSOME, and i also hate UE interface, BUT... did You tried the same scene in Twinmotion, witch is more user friendly and just got Lumen???
@@racehorse9720 wiki.blender.org/wiki/Process/Bug_Reports#:~:text=corrupted%20Blend%20files.-,How%20and%20where%20to%20report%20bugs,update%20to%20the%20bug%20report. This goes through the process. But if you go to the help menu in blender there should be a bug report button.
Yesss, too much noise and messy, they shouldnt make a new raytracing code for screenspace effects of EEVEE, they should use cyclesx code somehow to benefit from speed of cycles x because its so optimized and it has lightree and many other methods for speed, Cycles give a clean image in second with all the tracing but eevee is too noisy just to calcualte screenspace rays and 3 things like reflection refraction and GI, I always feel like we need something like CYLEVEEE that turn cycles to realtime by benefiting from tracing speed of cyclesx on eevee instead of writing new tracing codes for eevee things, Imagine we use diffuse and simple passes from eevee then use cycles passes for shadows gi and reflections then combine them somehow to make a new engine? It would be cooler. So I think 2 developer should work together
From my testing, I found that EEVEE Next looks worse than 0451's ssgi by a long shot. Not only is 0451 far closer to cycles than EEVEE Next, it's also faster and its noise is similar to stock eevee. At this stage, EEVEE Next is useless as long as 0451 keeps updating their ssgi which leaves me flabbergasted when Blender foundation said themselves that 0451 is the reason, they decided to create EEVEE Next 2 years ago. Couldn't they have taken 0451's implementation and made it default? They legally can thanks to blenders licensing. But that doesn't matter though because it being a screen space effect already makes it dated when most real time renderers have raytracing that isn't screen space. 0451 ssgi came out 3 years ago and times have changed already.
It is still very early days. And yes, I agree. I am more excited about the direction than the implementation. I do wish eevee received a bit more love like cycles.
From my experience I found that EEVEE NEXT excels far better as long as no transparent, translucent, or sss materials are used. If any of those materials are used 0451’s version is 100% better for those situations.
i do not see the option to turn on eevee next in experimental all i see is debug am i missing somthing
If you have Blender 4.2 you already have the new EEVEE in there ready to rock
Whn I go under experimental there is no option to turn on eevee next.. Only Debugging stuff....
it's the 4.1.0 alpha version. not the released one
I really wish they make eevee next non-screenspace cuz there is not much meaning of EEVEE NEXT without that, its really needed, it can AT LEAST be like RTX UE4 system because its harder to make it optimized like LUMEN UE5, there should be option to define a diameter for screenspace so we can decide how much of screen it will take account, like a diameter parameter, so if we just wanna include things in a room it can calculate only the room instead of wasting rays outside the room.
Pretty sure hardware raytracing support for EEVEE is planned.
Screenspace raytracing can't ray trace anything that isn't already on screen already doesn't do anything with stuff you can't see or doesn't have geometry. It's just like the existing SS reflection options (or the SSGI fork) but it handles diffuse bounces too. This isn't a replacement for Lumen, and afaik Lumen includes SSGI as part of Lumen. Lumen combines multiple GI solutions so you can get high detail GI from SSGI and more persistent GI from the rest the system, that's what light probe volumes are for. Godot also has a multiple real-time GI solutions including SSGI, so hopefully Blender can copy their homework a bit.
That is why I am excited as it lays the ground work
At least I hope the next goal for Eevee Next is Screen Panorama Space which is similar to screen space but captured in 360° like in Unigine Engine.
@@cg.man_aka_kevin That would be so awesome! I really do love eevee - it is one of my favourite render engines.
I agree with you man. The folks who already understood how this tech works all knew that the people getting overhyped for this and thinking they were gonna get a Lumen equivalent in Blender were going to be very disappointed. It was never realistic to assume this in the first place since Epic had a team of many people working on Lumen for over a decade compared to the one guy whos been working on this "Eevee-Next" for Blender. He did great work but the new Eevee cannot even hold a candle to UNREAL.
For one thing, Screen space tracing in the way that its been implemented in EEVEE-Next is archaic even by modern standards. UNREAL and UNITY have been using this particular approach even before 2015. And UNITY has actually long since evolved the method by means of dynamic light probes, something that is FAR more effective and results in better visuals. Add the _actual_ real time Raytracing that UNITY is capable of doing in the viewport to the mix, and you've got something pretty powerful in combination. This really puts into perspective how far behind Blender is when it comes to real time technology, but we still gotta commend the devs for at least making it this far.
By comparison, Lumen GI is a great deal more powerful just on a software level alone since it raytraces in real time against Signed Distance Fields (SDF's) which are voxel interpretations of the original meshes on screen. Thanks to this we don't get that horrible screen limitation since with Lumen, the screen space tracing is only used as a fall back. This approach results in far more accurate visuals right out of the box. The real advantage for artists and developers though is that someone can utilize these features without even having to own a raytracing compatible GPU. And it gets even better if you DO have a raytracing compatible GPU since the Hardware Raytracing as of UNREAL 5.2 is _actually_ tracing against the original meshes themselves. This takes the quality to a whole new level beyond what is available in Blender.
And in terms of the new VSMs, where as it was done in Blender simply to improve the shadow quality, the Virtual Shadow Maps in UNREAL actually were developed around both LUMEN and NANITE. This was to get shadows to behave and react to light in a way more closer to pre-rendered visuals. Its certainly NOT perfect and just a WIP, but compared to what Blender is doing, its still leaps and bounds ahead. Add all of this to the fact that you can render EVERYTHING in seconds in UNREAL without having to worry about things like heavy geometry and modifiers slowing down your progress, its clear to see that Blender still has a very long way to go.
Vulkan will allow true ray tracing, instead of screen space one in EEVEE next.
Great information. Thanks for the install notes.
You are very welcome
Second that. Could figure out why it wasn't showing up.
So, does this mean that EEVEE Next will be able to manage more realistic/accurate mirrors now? That would be a major upgrade.
No, unfortunately not, you will still need to use reflection probe's.
@@Polyfable Welp, still fantastic developments.
they do plan the actual raytracing, as soon as Blender migrates from OpenGL to Vulkan
@@heiro5 It seems that there is no need to set reflection probes. I tried some scenes and the screen space reflection + RT works.
so is eevee next as realtime as say UE5?
Eevee next is already here, I've been seeing Brigade demos since 2012 lol.
Haha... Same... I have been waiting for so long... haha... Exactly! If we will ever see it is anyone's guess!
So how is this different from the screen space reflections that is already in eevee? Also will this improve AO?
I thought the whole idea of EEVEE Next was global illumination without baking indirect lighting. Did I miss something?
is eevee shadow still blocky or smooth
Eevee shadows can still be a bit blocky but they are much improved. That said - it does take a bit more time optimising scenes (And general "hackery") to get them looking good over a render engine like cycles or octane.
I always just chalk it up to a trade-off - you get for really fast rendering speeds.
I compared new and old and new ones are more blocky and even if I increase the resolution (MB) it doesnt get better, so i hope it will be fixed @@Polyfable
Lumen is pretty OWSOME, and i also hate UE interface, BUT... did You tried the same scene in Twinmotion, witch is more user friendly and just got Lumen???
Evee next makes the skin of my model black how can I fix this?
That is odd. It is still an alpha so expect bugs.
I would report this and then let us know what is said.
how i report it?@@Polyfable
@@racehorse9720 wiki.blender.org/wiki/Process/Bug_Reports#:~:text=corrupted%20Blend%20files.-,How%20and%20where%20to%20report%20bugs,update%20to%20the%20bug%20report.
This goes through the process.
But if you go to the help menu in blender there should be a bug report button.
Enabled EVEE NEXT, now blender is crashing when I open an old file and try to select EVEE NEXT from the drop down. hmmmm
It is still very much alpha. Send a report to blender if it is consistent with the file so they can take a look.
yes it happens when compiling shaders etc or if scene is heavy
Just imbed your movie around a simple game
It's very interesting but currently very terrible. The performance is even much worse than CyclesX
Yesss, too much noise and messy, they shouldnt make a new raytracing code for screenspace effects of EEVEE, they should use cyclesx code somehow to benefit from speed of cycles x because its so optimized and it has lightree and many other methods for speed, Cycles give a clean image in second with all the tracing but eevee is too noisy just to calcualte screenspace rays and 3 things like reflection refraction and GI,
I always feel like we need something like CYLEVEEE that turn cycles to realtime by benefiting from tracing speed of cyclesx on eevee instead of writing new tracing codes for eevee things,
Imagine we use diffuse and simple passes from eevee
then use cycles passes for shadows gi and reflections
then combine them somehow to make a new engine? It would be cooler. So I think 2 developer should work together
@@mcan-piano4718 Exactly right, just like Cyberpunk 2077
@@mcan-piano4718at that point,just make cycles real-time
From my testing, I found that EEVEE Next looks worse than 0451's ssgi by a long shot. Not only is 0451 far closer to cycles than EEVEE Next, it's also faster and its noise is similar to stock eevee. At this stage, EEVEE Next is useless as long as 0451 keeps updating their ssgi which leaves me flabbergasted when Blender foundation said themselves that 0451 is the reason, they decided to create EEVEE Next 2 years ago. Couldn't they have taken 0451's implementation and made it default? They legally can thanks to blenders licensing. But that doesn't matter though because it being a screen space effect already makes it dated when most real time renderers have raytracing that isn't screen space. 0451 ssgi came out 3 years ago and times have changed already.
It is still very early days. And yes, I agree. I am more excited about the direction than the implementation. I do wish eevee received a bit more love like cycles.
From my experience I found that EEVEE NEXT excels far better as long as no transparent, translucent, or sss materials are used. If any of those materials are used 0451’s version is 100% better for those situations.
There's like 2 people working on eevee next.
@@Villager_U 0451 is one person I believe that did it 3 years ago. At least Cycles is getting amazing updates