@@dereksmall4311 To his defense, this tutorial is for those trying to understand some very novice based concepts. In general, we can't overload people when we teach, but to be fair we also shouldn't be advertising bad practices to them either. We must be as flawless as possible so they know what is right and what is inappropriate.
@@dereksmall4311 Are there any videos out there that tackle the issue of triangles? I am fighting with "too many triangles" and everyone just says decimate......but it destroys the model with round edges. Any help would greatly be welcomed.
This is the kinda stuff you never see in beginner 3d modeling tutorials and yet it is an essential part of good topology. This absolutely should be included and yet…this is the first time Ive seen it. I swear, there are so many teachers that just like to hear the sound of their own voice instead of actually teaching fundamentals. Good stuff!
Yep on Blender there are levels to this game… I see people (no offense) with limited knowledge of their own techniques, others turn in rough models and only get through due to unseen habits when stretching the objects in a way that seems no different to ours Just the way they mask and they direction they do this would have me believing it works for all of us when the truth is it’s a bit of a jailbreak to begin with. Just pulling it into place and letting it stay slightly taccy
Luckily it was one of the first things that i was taught. Topology. Sadly my teacher (taught 3D game avatars and objects) past away and now Im self teaching from you tube vids. Im happy I got to spend a year with him and his knowledge. All the best out there.
Cus most 'teachers' on youtube aren't actually industry professionals and don't know what the industry practices are. They're just hobbyists. If you join an actual course taught by former game devs and VFX artists topology is one of the first things you're taught and it's drilled into you because it's essential for keeping poly counts low and also rigging animation etc. Even UVs and Textures will take up more memory if the topology is bad because it can't be tesselated properly after unwrapping.
I've seen DOZENS of TH-cam tutorials on topology / edge-flow, yet this one covers important issues they don't and is presented in a clear, structured way. Well done, indeed.
i have worked with so many people with the "all quads mind" making hard surface non deformable videogame assets, and they always be delivering the most unoptimized model ever with too many useless geometry, and it get sfrustrating quickly, so remember: characters / deformable objects: triangles are bad hard surface non deformable objects: triangles are good
Yeah, there's a major difference between "close up of animated character's face" and "prop hurricane lantern in the background." And an experienced 3D artist will know how to divvy up that time to get the best of both. That being said, in early development, it's a really good exercise to be thinking of how to topologize random assets that you may be making along the way.
As a modeler and animator in the game industry, this is kind of true, it depends on the model and its use. For characters we are always asked for a clean topology and a good polygon flow. Also for games is very important to use the least polycount possible, so you have to know what areas to "sacrifice" and use less polygons.
@@Ilu-vb8ff besides if it's about details, isn't also just possible to use stuff like bump mapping to add the details without having to create good topology or add a billion polygons.
Just like a previous comment said, that "bad" topology isn't necessarily bad esp in Video Games/Real-Time applications. You're not going to SubD or deform everything. What you'll focus on is how it performs within the scene and how it's supposed to work in the scene. Don't treat everything universally, a character needs to have good topology that you might reuse again and again but a trash can or chair is a low-priority object that you can optimize the hell out of. Tris are not evil, in the game-engine it will all convert back to Tris. It's just how you use them taking in mind the shading and factors like deformation.
Faking topology with normal or height maps is actually a key tool for (not) modelling! Thanks so much for pointing this out and for making the clear link between good modelling and good UV mapping and texturing!
if your baking your own normal maps there is no faking it, once you have a good normal map to put onto a low topology model it doesn't matter how you baked the high topology model. this only really applies to baking normal maps and video games.
@@grubage Well It is still faked, just is a fake handmade design that will "fit like a globe" for certain model... the problems is that when it is used most of the times would over on a destructive process rather other process. (as the original low poly gets also decimated, ussually turning the mesh a pain to work on it again, and relaying mostly on the normal map to get a decent aproximation of the original... (probably you will lost more than 50% the detail on the original mesh being alone)
@@BioClonegenerally when we bake it we apply the now baked normals to the low poly model. This then allows use to save more resources if imported into a game engine
@@kingdomkey599 I know how it works but fake things still are fake things. Bake is always a single direction workflow. That is why videogame models never will look good enough if used, for example on printing
Honestly I'm a beginner blender user and I've looked for this advice everywhere and couldn't find it. This is a great video. I tried to model a gun and ended up using loop cuts like mad that stretched the length of the gun every time just to get detail in one place and I was absolutely stumped on how to get detail in one place without over-complicating the rest of the mesh. Other tutorials used separate parts and just made them LOOK connected, but this was great. I think I'll take another stab at the model.
If you're using blender, here's a fun thing: in sculpt mode, there's a way to 'paint' detail of the mesh by using dyntopo. You can literally paint areas where there ought to be more (or less) topology by adjusting the dyntopo detail size, which does a lot of the manual re-routing work for you. If you're using the draw brush with 0 strength, you can apply just the dyntopo topography changes without deforming the mesh.
One thing to consider when modelling is how the geo will light and render. For hard surfaces, I assign a work material with a strong tight specular. Then I take a point light and put it under a null and then slowly rotate it around the model. This way I can see any irregularities or bumps in the curved planar sections and whether or not there are pinched subdivisions when applying smooth. You can see how the bevels are working too. Your lighter will love you if you can deliver beveled models that are silky smooth when a light or refection travels across the surface. You can sometimes iron out the mesh bumpiness by using the Edit Mesh > Average Vertices command.
Greetings from Brasil. I am not a Maya user, I am Blender enthusiast and I learned a lot from your video, thank´s so much. You explained complex stuff in a very easy to understand way.
3D Modeling is a craft more than an art form. Many people may not agree with that idea, but it's a tool that's learned and it's like learning anything..to fix a car, you have to have experience solving problems associated with the car..The same thing applies to modeling and to earn credibility as a modeler, you have to show dynamic understanding of the tools we use. This video helps understand the basic functions of topology and I appreciate that the creator is helpful in this way. I encourage every new modeler to check this out!
Remember people, ask yourself what category you will be modeling for. This will answer your approach to these newbie "tips". And no. Lower your expectations, these will NOT guarantee your hire. The art industry is tough and the gaming industry is tougher. They will always expect you to be multifaceted, the game industry will expect more and both of them will have you perform other tasks which really should not be in your skillset. Secondly, the way JL Mussi approaches the rerouting pattern is perplexing because he performs a bad habit for newbies and a bad explanation overall. The way an edge loop works is by placing an edge between 2 mirrored triangles to form a single face. When you need to route an edge to follow a specific pattern, the corner(s) that will represent your angle will use 3 vertices from a single face- or in other words and more notably use 2 vertices from 1 triangle and 1 vertices from another triangle, and because you cannot perform an edge loop with triangles, we sacrifice speed for accuracy by using faces. Also, please always keep in mind where you will be placing a texture in replacement of hard surface. In videogames for example, most details that are non interactable features are often just textures. For example GTA 5 buildings and windows are with textures. When they involve a building's innards and interactions, they replace the asset. Last but not least, the worst practice you can have is to keep a constant subdivision modifier equipped (unless it is an animation that uses rounded features such as organics like humans. This also translates well with UVs). This abysmal practice is absolutely horrendous. Why? Well, this should never be your final result. The point of topologizing your mesh is not only for having good flow, clean topology and to animate well, but it is also to lighten the computational load and remove the visual impairment often portrayed by rounded edges when they should really be straight ones. The best example typically comes from the idea that the subdivision modifier subdivides the entire mesh instead of making use of localized density. You have little to no control over which parts of the mesh that must be subdivided by the modifier.
What really works for me is that I basically add loops before adding booleans and once I apply then I work on that specific part of the model before moving to another boolean. I delete the areas around boolean parts (so anything between the bool parts and the loops I added around the part before applying) and then reconnect the high density area to the low density areas by reducing the poly count between them (reducing the density on the edges of boolean parts in the "transition zone")... This way, I am reducing the poly count all the time and progressively with the progress of the model. Since I am limited by the parts with low poly count, all the boolean parts need to be perfect. If I have an extra vertice, I fucked it up and need to chase down my mistake in stead of trying to fix it later... The places that have a lot of details have higher density and are connected by a low density area (so basically details are connected by a large area of simple geometry via the transition areas). There are two downsides to this method: 1) It requires that you can imagine the whole model and reconstruct if from memory since you need to think about geometry before actually making it. 2) Works best for non-organic things (hard surface), so it is more adequate for level design (I am in that field so it suits my needs) Sorry if I explained it really bad, I am a non-native speaker so some more complex stuff can be hard to explain... Also, I work in Blender. That being said, good geo is an universal skill...
Not entirely true. Nowadays, we sculpt pretty much everything in ZBrush and having this kind of topology will produce poor results when smoothing. But, yes, if you are only doing lowpoly modeling for an indie game on a budget(both poly and $$$) then you are right. However, the topology on the right is how we did things when I was working in a local VFX studio.
Thank you very mush for this great video, which helps me to learn a lot in this weekend. The topology in 3d models seems not only a new tech for the artists with traditional art background, but may also for people used CAD before with engineering background. Thanks for this video that guides me to dig and understand the relationship between topology and meshes, which I was very confused before. The topology tip three you taught about 'doing separate pieces at the very end of/or towards the end of the modeling stage' is really helpful for my recent modeling. Really appreciate.
Another fantastic tip that everyone should hear (credit to FrankPolygon on the Polycount forums) is that Subd will ALWAYS be just an approximation. Pinching will always happen in one way or another. Time is your most valuable resource so you should always cosider what the purpose of your model is. If the camera never gets too close there is no point bashing your head to get perfect topology. Same goes for baking High > Low. Nobody cares about your highpoly as the end user will never see it, use every trick you can to save yourself time (ngons baby!). A finished model that looks 75% great is better than an unfinished one with perfect topo.
I've a feeling I'm gonna be watching a whole lot more of your videos, I modelled a prototype car maybe 15 years ago on my spare time at work, I've just been given some real inspiration from this video to go back and carry on with it, I haven't modelled in years and always struggled with how to route topo, I always tried removing the reroutes, tris and diamonds etc and only have quads as I thought they were bad... So much extra time wasted that wasn't needed... Thx dude...just need to use maya controls in 3ds max so I can follow your shortcut keys, subbed and props
Great video. One artist said UV's are a "necessary evil". Maybe one day we'll do without them, but until then, learning how to UV unwrap is important. I don't use Maya for 3D modeling, but your videos have given some great insight on 3D modeling methodology. Keep up the great work.
I've been doing this for years and I would say this video is perfect for any and every 3d artist especially a beginner. Its easy to get to high sculptural detail with out great topology but in the end if you want to pose or animate or texture that thing bad topology will make sure you redo all that work again to get a desired result. Having bad topology is a huge limiter in every package. I always have to remind myself what the end goal is for the thing I'm working on with consideration that i might want to do more later like animate or 3d print it. It's always best to push yourself to be not be lazy and do it right the first time with good topology.
I have been an independent Animator and artist for 30 years. You sir have delivered one of the best summaries of the Nuts and Bolts of 3D modelling I have ever seen.
Are you some kind of wizard or guiding angel lol. Every time I run into some problem in my 3d modeling learning, you immediately upload a video on that particular problem. I can't thank you enough🔥
The diamond shape is a lifesaver. Just when I thought "how the hell do I deal with edge loops that I need in this part of the model, but don't want them to run through the whole thing?", you saved the day. God bless. Very informative and a fun intro. Definitely a sub.
For Games topology doesnt matter much unless you are deforming . As long you are retaining form for your targeted resolution you are good to go . For clean surface normal you can always get away with hard and soft edges ( MAYA ) , transfer normal , bake & etc , or you can just crease it and clean it up in Zbrush. Certain console has limits in polygon count so you have do the "wrong" topology to save count . For starters who are enthusiastic in joining the industry , dont worry too much about the technical and just make Good Art . Technical like this differs from project to project and you are going to learn it along the way .
These are super handy things to get anybody started on making clean models and also to have much better control on the mesh. Great tips for efficiency and accuracy!
0:58 "If you see a your vertices merged at center, you have questionable topology" 30:58 i dunno man that looks like the topology you told me not to make...
Topology type depends highly on the application. For example, if youre doing low poly models for gaming, you would need the high poly dense model to transfer the texture map of the low poly in substance or whatever. It's completely different for industrial design and also completely different in film. However, as a global practice, good topology is important for decent UV maps.
@@Lync1111 every industry has a different pipeline on how they optimize their assets for production. As a baseline, it's good to follow his recommendations when handing off models to other people who will be using them for implementation. However, it may not be how the final state of the assets end up.
I’ve been learning modeling for years; and although I’m still comfortably amateur, I can tell I’m improving by watching videos like this and thinking “well, duh,” and at the same time, remembering that none of this is second nature at first. Great video though, first class advice.
In gaming industry you can use both quad and triangular topology. Quad is often used at models that will deform with animation. Otherwise it is completely fine to use triangles too. It will also save a few polygons.
The GPU will triangularize all of your topology before rendering, anyhow. Keeping things in quads is really for making it easier to work with the model. That is, not breaking edge loops, better results from subsurf and deformation, dynamic simulation, ease of UV mapping, etc.
Not true for the deformation part. Actually I'd say it's the opposite specially with low polys. We use triangles for parts of the models that are going to deform a lot, and we use quads for better workflow but triangulate at the end. Usually all main joints of the character like shoulders and elbows, also the face to be sure the shading looks good, and all clothes that have thickness or are overlapped. The reason is that the engine only renders in triangles, so either the engine triangulate automatically when render, or when importing. This automatic triangulation might not look good with some deformations, or it might even flip automatically if it's done with the render (like it happens inside Maya viewport) so we do the triangulation manually.
If you've got your sights set on the game industry, then my advice is don't _only_ learn modeling ... learn to write code and shaders and how graphics really works, and sharpen your tech art skills. You'll be literally unstoppable, especially if you pick up animation later and learn to write code and scripts to do things with them.
@obscuretenet that is one way to reduce it down and strip it of its essence, but a technical artist _is_ a thing and I'm suggesting it because I know how difficult it is for studios to find people with those overlapping skill sets. Every studio wants/needs this but can't find it, hence the reason we refer to such humans as "unicorns" and things like a shader/animation or graphics tech art as "unicorn skills" -- it will put you first in line for jobs. 🦄 And it's also not bad advice from the perspective of AI threatening traditional 3D modeling techniques and tools, nor from a self-reliant indy/hobbyist dev's perspective who wants to make better games faster and at less cost. So, yes, I absolutely thought it through.
Everyone I know who's worked in the game industry has told me there's vastly better opportunities adjacent to game production. Local TV, syndicated news, podcasts, streamer branding... you name it. The absolute last resort is to get a job at EA or Activision where you'll work at your breaking point until you're fired or burn out and a willing replacement tags in.
@talkingplants6331 Unreal uses C++ primarily. Unity uses C# primarily. Java is not very commonly used in game development but I have seen it before, back in the day at least. I've never seen a game in Swift but if you're targeting only Apple devices or building your own unofficial compiler then I'm sure it's possible.
Thank you very much, I never understood my former teacher and I used to get frustrated every time I modeled. You explain everything so great and I finally can enjoy modeling :D
the knowledge of topology is insane. these are amazing models, damn near perfect. I have some good years ahead of me in terms of my skills and this helps a ton.
Hello, just randomly came across your video when I asked myself repeatedly if I should start working with 3D again. I take it as a hint! You are a perfect teacher!
I've been waiting for a video dealing with topology like this! I struggle with dealing with topology, so this video is a lifesaver for me! Thank you so much!
there's a generation of folks (dare I say the 'younger' generation) that expect to be able to be great at something just by watching YT videos without actually putting in the endless hours it takes to become even competent at a particular skill. Just resign yourself to the fact that there are NO shortcuts - stay focussed and be smart about what you learn and above all have realistic expectations of what you can achieve in a given timescale
Well you're not necessarily wrong. Go look at the comments on any Blender timelapse or tutorial of someone doing even fairly rudimentary 3D work, and it's filled with people who have been "learning Blender" for two whole weeks and seem discouraged their work doesn't look as good as someone who has been doing 3D art for years. TH-cam tutorials are wonderful, but I do fear we're training a whole generation of artists to imagine that 3D art is a piece of software they can pick up in a few days rather than a whole range of skills, each of which can take years of work to truly master.
@@zackakai5173 YT videos can be an invaluable learning resource - unfortunately the flip side is that there are far too many with clickbait titles such as 'master this' and 'quick fix that' that give newcomers totally unrealistic expectations
But there is a shortcut today, maybe why the younger generation is turning to AI. Instead of spending years how to learn to draw, write and 3D modelling. I'm 5yr in to blender. I want to create art not content. So I have just been doing Courses after course. Much more important than to get followers or likes.
As a technical artist in the games industry, I can confirm that the thumbnail is incorrect. As long as the outcome looks good, the typology comes second, and this is in regards to hard surface. When it comes to characters, it is important to have amazing meshflow.
Might be useless for this echo chamber but this is the most correct point of view here, using triangles to connect a curved surface (as in the false thumbnail), especially for hard surfaces, would be slightly more optimal. Even with organic stuff you can put triangles where there are no deformation (or where they are hidden) to optimize the mesh better, but people seemingly tend not to care about optimizations so much anymore.
I am in 3D modeling for some time, with breaks in between, and this is one of the best videos for good topology. I am currently using only blender for 3D modeling, but this can be applied to any 3D modeling software. I have watched many begginer and more advanced tutorials and i have finished some of Udemy courses but none of them mentioned these details like you did in this video. This video was very helpful for some of my current projects than i am going to do. Thank you very much
This is such a good video. I remember when I first started learning Blender I saw this video but soon as I saw it was all in Maya I skipped it and what a shame because this knowledge is applicable to any polygon modelling software like Maya, 3d a max, cinema 4D and blender and is one of the best videos on topology that I’ve seen!! Thank you for sharing.
i´m from Brazil and here is kinda difficult to get good stuff on 3D Modeling tutorials videos, you are helping me so much on this, thanks for all of your videos. 😄
*To achieve the exact results in the thumbnail...* In 3ds Max, If one were starting with a Spline and doing Extrude/Bevel, the way to have both smooth edges (and optimization) would be to check the 'Adaptive' check box on the Spline. The spline goes from jaggy to smooth...
I'm gonna have to disagree with the thumbnail... if you do the 'correct' topology, with the Catmull algorithm, you will 100% get unevenly-sized highlights due to the uneven distances between the grid on the front plane and the supporting edge loop vertices. Absolutely would be better to have triangles radiating equally--it's a flat plane and you have a supporting edge separating the triangles from the edge anyway so you're not going to get pinching like you normally would with triangles right at edges, your highlights will still be flat, and most importantly, you'll get a perfect semi-circle supporting loop, AND the highlights around the edge won't be thicker or thinner in some places. This is one case where people apply the wrong principles. No modern renderer is going to care about triangles being in the middle of flat planes on your mesh. (edit: If the mesh HAS to deform, then yeah, triangles will be a mess, but I still wouldn't put that uneven of a grid shape just beyond the supporting loop of a shape that needs to be circular). Honestly the best approach would be to have the cylinder cap with triangles as a template subdivided with several loops, and then just remove the innermost triangles and connect them across to complete a grid. Also, 9:16, there's an n-gon to the right of the rear vent that seems to go out of its way to be an issue, all you would have to do is remove the two edges that intersect the supporting loop below the offending vertex and just connect the incoming loop to that vertex directly.
I agree with making use of UV mapping, texures and separated meshes. When I started out, I always thought that every single detail has to be modelled from text, to labels or anything else. However, after working on a lot of projects, I realized that not everything has to be modelled as a mesh. It would be difficult to both create and modify if a client wants to make changes. So, separating meshes, using textures and such made me work smarter, not harder.
Thank you, I've been interested in 3d modelling for a long time and have tried to find help in this area but nothing made sense. Your explainations are clear, concise and actionable.
Some stuff like that VW Beetle example, when you plan to model in separate parts it's a good idea to have a reference mesh to define the main volume and then use it as the snapping surface to build your actual detailed model mesh onto. In a car example, the reference will give all the flowing forms of the body shape to it, but purposely lacks all the details - it's a simplified solid form that is only a guide for the following process.Takes all the headaches out of the vertex alignment between parts, as regardless of placement they should be conformed to the same surface definition. Kind of hard to explain in words, but there are examples of the process out there in other videos. I know that's probably a bit beyond the scope of the topic here, but I'm sure at your level you know about it and it's still something worth a mention.
I work in VFX, and almost none of our asset archives have perfect topology. If it's going to be rigged and animated, then yes, but otherwise, absolutely not a concern.
Good stuff. I appreciate that you just explain the concepts involved without banging on about how to actually use the software. That is a big annoyance for me in Blender videos.
Loving this video so far! Throughout my entire time at College, everyone would make fun of me for understanding the technicalities for 3D Modelling I have been watching your videos for the past 2 years and I am so glad that I have been able to hone in on my Topology and Modelling workflows all the more thanks to you! Thank you!!
@@ledass7120 Because the only way they model is through non-subdiv preview. As JL Mussi put it well "Topology is for suckers, man" Therefore, they think that they are on a higher playing field all because they think that making your models look good is a waste of time
@@hazzabe32 lol well good luck to them when they need to retopo a model or uv something. Lately people have been boolean happy, it looks like at the beginning but turns out to be useless after a while…kind of like me lol
one thing i learned that changed the way i see re-topology was that you can have a 3, 4, or 5 edge connecting vert and any more causes too much stress and should be avoided
Pretty great video, lots of info, what I learned hard way, in my beginnings. Little stuff what I noticed, in video, in first topology tip, reroute, this is great stuff. People have to be aware that this method on curved surface with very glossy material, like chrome or car paint, can cause reflection distortions. And in destroy and rebuild tip, in Maya you can usually use Edge Flow tool, that way not need to always delete and rebuild topology.
I can agree with some of the principles in here. Being a tech art director tho I'll warn to never, ever use the diamond pattern like shown in this. Especially on a character and to end the buttcrack like so, use triangles or better never mess up the flow along the symmetry lines, your rigger will love you
Just no : ))))))))) For new 3D artist who gonna join the career. 1. If you join a game company, You will be rejected because of that high-quality topology. optimized the mesh as much as possible (Remember to keep the quality and silhouette). Don't try to be fancy, every triangle and 4side faces are counted. 2. If you join a film, advertising, or animation for a cartoon, You will be rejected because of your unoriginal topology mesh. They need full square mesh or "trigon for a specific area" if it doesn't cause problems for smooth mode render.
This content is gold. I work with Blender, but I really enjoy your videos. I think every beginner should watch these tips. In fact, I'm going to use some of them in a project I'm working on right now. Thank you, Mussi, for your help in this and other videos.
Thank you, This video gives great coverage to good topology. I'll be getting my new 3D modelling students to watch this at the start of modelling process. Cheers mate!
I have been going through your vids recently and just have to express my gratitude for your work. You explain things very well and your videos have helped me grow as a 3d artist. Thank you. Also, SubD modeling has been the most useful for me so far, so the localized density was wildly helpful!
Thats a quite insane video! Well done i have to say. Totally agree with everything you have said in this video. I have now multiple years of experience in 3D Modelling and also 3D CAD Engineering. I think this is another good example that 3D modelling and CAD modelling should move even closer together to harmonize the way both techniques are working. Having the intuitive and fast way of modelling mechanical parts as we do with CAD programs combined with the freedom of mesh modellings with its optimized quad/tri count would be a nice combination. Of course you don't want to CAD model a character's face for sure. But modelling CAD models with poly meshes only could be quite time consuming compared by doing it with proper CAD operations. (and its also quite unflexible) Mesh density would be a disadvantage of course, but with automatic retopologizers these days, its becoming less and less of an issue in the near future, in my opinion. At the end it's always a matter of time. Sacrificing rendering speed by boosting modeling? But i think this doesn't have to be a problem in the near futures anymore. Im already quite deep into parametric modeling and industrial, military and vehicle visualizations atm. and i think there is still a lot of head room for optimizations. I also think that we should move away from mesh modelling, as best as possible, in the future, to use that free time for more direct modelling tasks. Of course the UVW Mapping process should also be more parametric and flexible, which i think will be the most problematic thing to program. Also deformations could be a problem them, but with a proper parametric or CAD modeling way, i think this can be even more automatized too. Yeah, but that's just my vison for the whole CAD and 3D modeling world. Thanks for reading, have a nice day :)
Fuck Polygons! If you do hard surface mechanical design picking up a good CAD program is way better than limiting yourself to these polygons like a mere mortal. I know, I was against the idea at first too, I've learned the polygonal design workflow for years but CAD just opened up so many possibilities. This video is great and I loved watching it, and I want to complement it by encouraging people to try out CAD software for themselves, with good options like Plasticity now available there's never been a better time to jump in!
My course just gave us an assignment to make a 3D character and a 3D environment without even teaching us these basics, which has been causing me so much grief. Thank you.
3:10 I feel you. I can draw pretty well and high poly sculpting has felt surprisingly easy for me but trying to create optimal topology is really really hard. I'm still on the borderline if AI guided topology is going to fix the issue faster than I can learn it (when I do 3D modeling as a hobby only). After watching this video, I think I'm trying to avoid poles too much (e.g. "5 star points") and I end up with excessive edge loops all around the object.
The best Tip I can give to this is, when creating a new shape, always minimize those to zero, this means never allow other than quads, if you do one step and you got triangles or similar, correct then before moving ahead the shape. This also forces you to pre-plan significantly the design and start with rough topology and later relay on modifiers to get a higher polycount. The problem of "leave then for later" will multiply your frustration easily x2 or x4 even with success, not even talking about what would happen when you invest 3 hours on retopology and notice you are not making any progress. Not saying it would be impossible but certainly it can be a time sinkhole and I think is only ok when you really want to invest time on a trully original, or unfortunated "fun modeling" where you over with a great shape but terrible topology. PS: Mini Tip: the most important part of the topology are the "corners" make well the corners and the topology most of the times will become clean and closer to be the most efficent ratio poly/quality you can get on certain shape. Like on a puzzle if you need to start with a main fundation, start on a corner and define the others from this one, if you manage to follow the quad rule meanwhile the experience of modeling feels like when using a bike you reach a downward slope.
@@BioClone Sure, if you do simple enough objects, it's easy to use nice flow with quads from the start. However, if you're sculpting e.g. a dragon with horns and spikes in the spine + wings, it's very hard to keep nice quad flow during the sculpting.
@@MikkoRantalainen Yeah organic elements are harder to conceive with good topology but it still aplies, While not my main interest actually I noticed with human modeling that correct topology por organic things are even more welcome in comparison with non-organic stuff. On that case for example I would consider split elements (such horns) and maybe wings depending how is going to be the model (if the muscules for the wings pretends to be realistic most probably this wont be a good idea) and then apply the same philosophy, such start on the "nose" or on the Ears. and move towads the chin, then from neck to shoulder etc.. At the end this remembers me like planning a city on certain games such Cities Skylines... If you plane the main cross roads (in the case the corret topology and poles on the main geometry points) then later is much easier to develop a working model.
I wish i had this about 4 years ago when starting out. I was, even in the beginning very meticulous about good topology. But had a hard type finding resources to help me understand how. So I had to learn trial by error. And still to this day search for information to help me improve. Thanks! Also i have always avoided booleans because of the mess they create but after watching this, i am considering giving them a second chance. They would be very useful in some situations.
Thanks for sharing this information. I'd struggled with texturing and uv mapping/ and topology in the past any clarity and new information on this subject is thoroughly needed. Thank you.
For other Blender noobs like me: I could not reproduce his line straightening magics. So I googled and found this neat trick: Select your Edge Loop. Press 'S' then the axis you want to flatten it to and then '0' on the num pad. Abracadabra it's al perfectly straight! You can test this by making 2 loop cuts on the default cube and messing one up and then try this.
24:31 But when you attach that part, you no longer have access to all the previous modifiers of the original object to make adjustments? Or does Maya offer something like this?
The video is great, but your thumbnail is misleading. Converging all of the edges into the center is a perfectly viable solution if you've got a polycount limit and the object isn't deforming or you're not subdividing it. Granted, today you're not likely to have such poly constraints, but for static meshes that are just environment decoration, it doesn't matter what your edge flow looks like.
In my experience I can say that In games low density topology and triangles are perfectly fine, sometimes also characters would have triangles and "messy" topology in some areas of the geo
I only clicked and commented on this video because I was fixated on the toggle buttons in your thumbnail being in the same direction yet meaning contrasting things. I'm sure the tips are fine.
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FYI if u think models are measured in squares ur wrong a model is always measured in how many triangles there are u sound like a nub
@@dereksmall4311 To his defense, this tutorial is for those trying to understand some very novice based concepts.
In general, we can't overload people when we teach, but to be fair we also shouldn't be advertising bad practices to them either. We must be as flawless as possible so they know what is right and what is inappropriate.
@@dereksmall4311 Are there any videos out there that tackle the issue of triangles? I am fighting with "too many triangles" and everyone just says decimate......but it destroys the model with round edges. Any help would greatly be welcomed.
Hey buddy can you explane in hindi dube
Good little video, but need to change the title picture cos it's comparing apples to oranges... one is sub-D, the other is not!
This is the kinda stuff you never see in beginner 3d modeling tutorials and yet it is an essential part of good topology. This absolutely should be included and yet…this is the first time Ive seen it. I swear, there are so many teachers that just like to hear the sound of their own voice instead of actually teaching fundamentals. Good stuff!
Yep on Blender there are levels to this game…
I see people (no offense) with limited knowledge of their own techniques, others turn in rough models and only get through due to unseen habits when stretching the objects in a way that seems no different to ours
Just the way they mask and they direction they do this would have me believing it works for all of us when the truth is it’s a bit of a jailbreak to begin with. Just pulling it into place and letting it stay slightly taccy
Luckily it was one of the first things that i was taught. Topology. Sadly my teacher (taught 3D game avatars and objects) past away and now Im self teaching from you tube vids. Im happy I got to spend a year with him and his knowledge. All the best out there.
Cus most 'teachers' on youtube aren't actually industry professionals and don't know what the industry practices are. They're just hobbyists.
If you join an actual course taught by former game devs and VFX artists topology is one of the first things you're taught and it's drilled into you because it's essential for keeping poly counts low and also rigging animation etc. Even UVs and Textures will take up more memory if the topology is bad because it can't be tesselated properly after unwrapping.
No, it isn’t an essential part of “good topology”.
This current trend of “tris are awful but poles are acceptable” is literally exactly backwards.
Glad this vid came in my feed, just starting to learn blender and wanted to know some good habits to look into >.>
I've seen DOZENS of TH-cam tutorials on topology / edge-flow, yet this one covers important issues they don't and is presented in a clear, structured way. Well done, indeed.
i have worked with so many people with the "all quads mind" making hard surface non deformable videogame assets, and they always be delivering the most unoptimized model ever with too many useless geometry, and it get sfrustrating quickly, so remember:
characters / deformable objects: triangles are bad
hard surface non deformable objects: triangles are good
For people who want to work in gaming industry - "bad" topology for game ready assets is not always a bad thing, it's often what keeps games playable
You need good topology for anything that deforms though (like animated characters).
@@suicideposter yea wich is not a lot in the grand scope of things, does depend on the game tou
Yeah, there's a major difference between "close up of animated character's face" and "prop hurricane lantern in the background." And an experienced 3D artist will know how to divvy up that time to get the best of both. That being said, in early development, it's a really good exercise to be thinking of how to topologize random assets that you may be making along the way.
As a modeler and animator in the game industry, this is kind of true, it depends on the model and its use. For characters we are always asked for a clean topology and a good polygon flow. Also for games is very important to use the least polycount possible, so you have to know what areas to "sacrifice" and use less polygons.
@@Ilu-vb8ff besides if it's about details, isn't also just possible to use stuff like bump mapping to add the details without having to create good topology or add a billion polygons.
Just like a previous comment said, that "bad" topology isn't necessarily bad esp in Video Games/Real-Time applications. You're not going to SubD or deform everything. What you'll focus on is how it performs within the scene and how it's supposed to work in the scene. Don't treat everything universally, a character needs to have good topology that you might reuse again and again but a trash can or chair is a low-priority object that you can optimize the hell out of. Tris are not evil, in the game-engine it will all convert back to Tris. It's just how you use them taking in mind the shading and factors like deformation.
Faking topology with normal or height maps is actually a key tool for (not) modelling! Thanks so much for pointing this out and for making the clear link between good modelling and good UV mapping and texturing!
if your baking your own normal maps there is no faking it, once you have a good normal map to put onto a low topology model it doesn't matter how you baked the high topology model. this only really applies to baking normal maps and video games.
games do that all the time
@@grubage Well It is still faked, just is a fake handmade design that will "fit like a globe" for certain model... the problems is that when it is used most of the times would over on a destructive process rather other process. (as the original low poly gets also decimated, ussually turning the mesh a pain to work on it again, and relaying mostly on the normal map to get a decent aproximation of the original... (probably you will lost more than 50% the detail on the original mesh being alone)
@@BioClonegenerally when we bake it we apply the now baked normals to the low poly model. This then allows use to save more resources if imported into a game engine
@@kingdomkey599 I know how it works but fake things still are fake things. Bake is always a single direction workflow. That is why videogame models never will look good enough if used, for example on printing
Honestly I'm a beginner blender user and I've looked for this advice everywhere and couldn't find it. This is a great video. I tried to model a gun and ended up using loop cuts like mad that stretched the length of the gun every time just to get detail in one place and I was absolutely stumped on how to get detail in one place without over-complicating the rest of the mesh. Other tutorials used separate parts and just made them LOOK connected, but this was great. I think I'll take another stab at the model.
Glad to hear you're going to try out your gun model again. Let me know how it comes out!
If you're using blender, here's a fun thing: in sculpt mode, there's a way to 'paint' detail of the mesh by using dyntopo. You can literally paint areas where there ought to be more (or less) topology by adjusting the dyntopo detail size, which does a lot of the manual re-routing work for you. If you're using the draw brush with 0 strength, you can apply just the dyntopo topography changes without deforming the mesh.
I 've been learning Blender for 4 years and no tutors I learn from has this indepth and clarity level that you have.
Thank you, much appreciated!
Same. But to be fair, I'm only taking topology seriously now.
After reading what (Phal Happy) said. Can a total beginner go from 0 to 100 just studying through you JL Mussi?
@@Lync1111 I don't know if you can go to 0 to 100 only by this channel, but you can indeed make a career path in the industry only by self learning.
Speed x1.5 = time saved
Your comment = time saved😊
I've acquired 80% of my Maya knowledge from your channel. Thanks for educating and supporting us. You're the best ❤️❤️
One thing to consider when modelling is how the geo will light and render. For hard surfaces, I assign a work material with a strong tight specular. Then I take a point light and put it under a null and then slowly rotate it around the model. This way I can see any irregularities or bumps in the curved planar sections and whether or not there are pinched subdivisions when applying smooth. You can see how the bevels are working too. Your lighter will love you if you can deliver beveled models that are silky smooth when a light or refection travels across the surface. You can sometimes iron out the mesh bumpiness by using the Edit Mesh > Average Vertices command.
Greetings from Brasil. I am not a Maya user, I am Blender enthusiast and I learned a lot from your video, thank´s so much. You explained complex stuff in a very easy to understand way.
3D Modeling is a craft more than an art form. Many people may not agree with that idea, but it's a tool that's learned and it's like learning anything..to fix a car, you have to have experience solving problems associated with the car..The same thing applies to modeling and to earn credibility as a modeler, you have to show dynamic understanding of the tools we use. This video helps understand the basic functions of topology and I appreciate that the creator is helpful in this way. I encourage every new modeler to check this out!
I appreciate the feedback and glad you enjoyed the video!
Remember people, ask yourself what category you will be modeling for. This will answer your approach to these newbie "tips". And no. Lower your expectations, these will NOT guarantee your hire. The art industry is tough and the gaming industry is tougher. They will always expect you to be multifaceted, the game industry will expect more and both of them will have you perform other tasks which really should not be in your skillset.
Secondly, the way JL Mussi approaches the rerouting pattern is perplexing because he performs a bad habit for newbies and a bad explanation overall. The way an edge loop works is by placing an edge between 2 mirrored triangles to form a single face. When you need to route an edge to follow a specific pattern, the corner(s) that will represent your angle will use 3 vertices from a single face- or in other words and more notably use 2 vertices from 1 triangle and 1 vertices from another triangle, and because you cannot perform an edge loop with triangles, we sacrifice speed for accuracy by using faces.
Also, please always keep in mind where you will be placing a texture in replacement of hard surface. In videogames for example, most details that are non interactable features are often just textures. For example GTA 5 buildings and windows are with textures. When they involve a building's innards and interactions, they replace the asset.
Last but not least, the worst practice you can have is to keep a constant subdivision modifier equipped (unless it is an animation that uses rounded features such as organics like humans. This also translates well with UVs). This abysmal practice is absolutely horrendous. Why? Well, this should never be your final result. The point of topologizing your mesh is not only for having good flow, clean topology and to animate well, but it is also to lighten the computational load and remove the visual impairment often portrayed by rounded edges when they should really be straight ones. The best example typically comes from the idea that the subdivision modifier subdivides the entire mesh instead of making use of localized density. You have little to no control over which parts of the mesh that must be subdivided by the modifier.
What really works for me is that I basically add loops before adding booleans and once I apply then I work on that specific part of the model before moving to another boolean. I delete the areas around boolean parts (so anything between the bool parts and the loops I added around the part before applying) and then reconnect the high density area to the low density areas by reducing the poly count between them (reducing the density on the edges of boolean parts in the "transition zone")...
This way, I am reducing the poly count all the time and progressively with the progress of the model. Since I am limited by the parts with low poly count, all the boolean parts need to be perfect. If I have an extra vertice, I fucked it up and need to chase down my mistake in stead of trying to fix it later... The places that have a lot of details have higher density and are connected by a low density area (so basically details are connected by a large area of simple geometry via the transition areas).
There are two downsides to this method:
1) It requires that you can imagine the whole model and reconstruct if from memory since you need to think about geometry before actually making it.
2) Works best for non-organic things (hard surface), so it is more adequate for level design (I am in that field so it suits my needs)
Sorry if I explained it really bad, I am a non-native speaker so some more complex stuff can be hard to explain... Also, I work in Blender. That being said, good geo is an universal skill...
the rejected on the thumbnail is ironically better topology. "triangles = bad topology" is the mindset of noob artists
Honestly depends on your market. if for games then yeah bad advice because many games requires tri's as apposed to quads.
Not entirely true. Nowadays, we sculpt pretty much everything in ZBrush and having this kind of topology will produce poor results when smoothing.
But, yes, if you are only doing lowpoly modeling for an indie game on a budget(both poly and $$$) then you are right.
However, the topology on the right is how we did things when I was working in a local VFX studio.
Thank you very mush for this great video, which helps me to learn a lot in this weekend. The topology in 3d models seems not only a new tech for the artists with traditional art background, but may also for people used CAD before with engineering background. Thanks for this video that guides me to dig and understand the relationship between topology and meshes, which I was very confused before. The topology tip three you taught about 'doing separate pieces at the very end of/or towards the end of the modeling stage' is really helpful for my recent modeling. Really appreciate.
Glad you liked it Helen! Creating separate parts is a very useful strategy to use in the right scenario.
Another fantastic tip that everyone should hear (credit to FrankPolygon on the Polycount forums) is that Subd will ALWAYS be just an approximation. Pinching will always happen in one way or another. Time is your most valuable resource so you should always cosider what the purpose of your model is. If the camera never gets too close there is no point bashing your head to get perfect topology. Same goes for baking High > Low. Nobody cares about your highpoly as the end user will never see it, use every trick you can to save yourself time (ngons baby!). A finished model that looks 75% great is better than an unfinished one with perfect topo.
I've a feeling I'm gonna be watching a whole lot more of your videos, I modelled a prototype car maybe 15 years ago on my spare time at work, I've just been given some real inspiration from this video to go back and carry on with it, I haven't modelled in years and always struggled with how to route topo, I always tried removing the reroutes, tris and diamonds etc and only have quads as I thought they were bad... So much extra time wasted that wasn't needed... Thx dude...just need to use maya controls in 3ds max so I can follow your shortcut keys, subbed and props
Great video. One artist said UV's are a "necessary evil". Maybe one day we'll do without them, but until then, learning how to UV unwrap is important. I don't use Maya for 3D modeling, but your videos have given some great insight on 3D modeling methodology. Keep up the great work.
I've been doing this for years and I would say this video is perfect for any and every 3d artist especially a beginner. Its easy to get to high sculptural detail with out great topology but in the end if you want to pose or animate or texture that thing bad topology will make sure you redo all that work again to get a desired result. Having bad topology is a huge limiter in every package. I always have to remind myself what the end goal is for the thing I'm working on with consideration that i might want to do more later like animate or 3d print it. It's always best to push yourself to be not be lazy and do it right the first time with good topology.
I appreciate the feedback!
According to the thumbnail, smooth previews get you hired! Easier than I thought it would be ;p
The smooth preview also has good topology, but nice try
I have been an independent Animator and artist for 30 years. You sir have delivered one of the best summaries of the Nuts and Bolts of 3D modelling I have ever seen.
Are you some kind of wizard or guiding angel lol. Every time I run into some problem in my 3d modeling learning, you immediately upload a video on that particular problem. I can't thank you enough🔥
Awesome, glad I could help.
video starts at 8:50
The diamond shape is a lifesaver. Just when I thought "how the hell do I deal with edge loops that I need in this part of the model, but don't want them to run through the whole thing?", you saved the day. God bless. Very informative and a fun intro. Definitely a sub.
For Games topology doesnt matter much unless you are deforming . As long you are retaining form for your targeted resolution you are good to go .
For clean surface normal you can always get away with hard and soft edges ( MAYA ) , transfer normal , bake & etc , or you can just crease it and clean it up in Zbrush.
Certain console has limits in polygon count so you have do the "wrong" topology to save count .
For starters who are enthusiastic in joining the industry , dont worry too much about the technical and just make Good Art . Technical like this differs from project to project and you are going to learn it along the way .
These are super handy things to get anybody started on making clean models and also to have much better control on the mesh. Great tips for efficiency and accuracy!
0:58 "If you see a your vertices merged at center, you have questionable topology"
30:58 i dunno man that looks like the topology you told me not to make...
Topology type depends highly on the application. For example, if youre doing low poly models for gaming, you would need the high poly dense model to transfer the texture map of the low poly in substance or whatever. It's completely different for industrial design and also completely different in film. However, as a global practice, good topology is important for decent UV maps.
Ok so why is he not speaking on this?
@@Lync1111 every industry has a different pipeline on how they optimize their assets for production. As a baseline, it's good to follow his recommendations when handing off models to other people who will be using them for implementation. However, it may not be how the final state of the assets end up.
I love your breakdown on topology. This is probably the hardest thing to learn for early modelers.
I’ve been learning modeling for years; and although I’m still comfortably amateur, I can tell I’m improving by watching videos like this and thinking “well, duh,” and at the same time, remembering that none of this is second nature at first. Great video though, first class advice.
In gaming industry you can use both quad and triangular topology. Quad is often used at models that will deform with animation. Otherwise it is completely fine to use triangles too. It will also save a few polygons.
The GPU will triangularize all of your topology before rendering, anyhow. Keeping things in quads is really for making it easier to work with the model. That is, not breaking edge loops, better results from subsurf and deformation, dynamic simulation, ease of UV mapping, etc.
@@mpbMKE agreed
Not true for the deformation part. Actually I'd say it's the opposite specially with low polys. We use triangles for parts of the models that are going to deform a lot, and we use quads for better workflow but triangulate at the end. Usually all main joints of the character like shoulders and elbows, also the face to be sure the shading looks good, and all clothes that have thickness or are overlapped.
The reason is that the engine only renders in triangles, so either the engine triangulate automatically when render, or when importing. This automatic triangulation might not look good with some deformations, or it might even flip automatically if it's done with the render (like it happens inside Maya viewport) so we do the triangulation manually.
Quads are just two triangles that have been automatically, arbitrarily divided.
If you've got your sights set on the game industry, then my advice is don't _only_ learn modeling ... learn to write code and shaders and how graphics really works, and sharpen your tech art skills. You'll be literally unstoppable, especially if you pick up animation later and learn to write code and scripts to do things with them.
@obscuretenet that is one way to reduce it down and strip it of its essence, but a technical artist _is_ a thing and I'm suggesting it because I know how difficult it is for studios to find people with those overlapping skill sets. Every studio wants/needs this but can't find it, hence the reason we refer to such humans as "unicorns" and things like a shader/animation or graphics tech art as "unicorn skills" -- it will put you first in line for jobs. 🦄
And it's also not bad advice from the perspective of AI threatening traditional 3D modeling techniques and tools, nor from a self-reliant indy/hobbyist dev's perspective who wants to make better games faster and at less cost. So, yes, I absolutely thought it through.
Write code? what you do mean ? programing?
Everyone I know who's worked in the game industry has told me there's vastly better opportunities adjacent to game production. Local TV, syndicated news, podcasts, streamer branding... you name it. The absolute last resort is to get a job at EA or Activision where you'll work at your breaking point until you're fired or burn out and a willing replacement tags in.
@@stickyfoxor selling your 3D model assets on open source market
@talkingplants6331 Unreal uses C++ primarily. Unity uses C# primarily. Java is not very commonly used in game development but I have seen it before, back in the day at least. I've never seen a game in Swift but if you're targeting only Apple devices or building your own unofficial compiler then I'm sure it's possible.
Thank you very much, I never understood my former teacher and I used to get frustrated every time I modeled. You explain everything so great and I finally can enjoy modeling :D
the knowledge of topology is insane. these are amazing models, damn near perfect. I have some good years ahead of me in terms of my skills and this helps a ton.
Hello, just randomly came across your video when I asked myself repeatedly if I should start working with 3D again. I take it as a hint! You are a perfect teacher!
Thanks, much appreciated!
I've been waiting for a video dealing with topology like this!
I struggle with dealing with topology, so this video is a lifesaver for me!
Thank you so much!
there's a generation of folks (dare I say the 'younger' generation) that expect to be able to be great at something just by watching YT videos without actually putting in the endless hours it takes to become even competent at a particular skill. Just resign yourself to the fact that there are NO shortcuts - stay focussed and be smart about what you learn and above all have realistic expectations of what you can achieve in a given timescale
Well you're not necessarily wrong. Go look at the comments on any Blender timelapse or tutorial of someone doing even fairly rudimentary 3D work, and it's filled with people who have been "learning Blender" for two whole weeks and seem discouraged their work doesn't look as good as someone who has been doing 3D art for years. TH-cam tutorials are wonderful, but I do fear we're training a whole generation of artists to imagine that 3D art is a piece of software they can pick up in a few days rather than a whole range of skills, each of which can take years of work to truly master.
@@zackakai5173 YT videos can be an invaluable learning resource - unfortunately the flip side is that there are far too many with clickbait titles such as 'master this' and 'quick fix that' that give newcomers totally unrealistic expectations
But there is a shortcut today, maybe why the younger generation is turning to AI. Instead of spending years how to learn to draw, write and 3D modelling. I'm 5yr in to blender. I want to create art not content. So I have just been doing Courses after course. Much more important than to get followers or likes.
Bro you’re commenting on a TH-cam video
You know whose fault that is right?
As a technical artist in the games industry, I can confirm that the thumbnail is incorrect. As long as the outcome looks good, the typology comes second, and this is in regards to hard surface. When it comes to characters, it is important to have amazing meshflow.
Might be useless for this echo chamber but this is the most correct point of view here, using triangles to connect a curved surface (as in the false thumbnail), especially for hard surfaces, would be slightly more optimal. Even with organic stuff you can put triangles where there are no deformation (or where they are hidden) to optimize the mesh better, but people seemingly tend not to care about optimizations so much anymore.
@@d3nshirenji Great minds think alike.
These are the type of tutorials hard to find for free, Good one JL.
Much appreciated!
I am in 3D modeling for some time, with breaks in between, and this is one of the best videos for good topology. I am currently using only blender for 3D modeling, but this can be applied to any 3D modeling software. I have watched many begginer and more advanced tutorials and i have finished some of Udemy courses but none of them mentioned these details like you did in this video.
This video was very helpful for some of my current projects than i am going to do.
Thank you very much
This is such a good video. I remember when I first started learning Blender I saw this video but soon as I saw it was all in Maya I skipped it and what a shame because this knowledge is applicable to any polygon modelling software like Maya, 3d a max, cinema 4D and blender and is one of the best videos on topology that I’ve seen!! Thank you for sharing.
bro i watched the video and immediately got hired. 10/10 would recommend👍
This is great. I've been away from 3D modeling for a long time and will likely need these techniques soon. Thanks.
i´m from Brazil and here is kinda difficult to get good stuff on 3D Modeling tutorials videos, you are helping me so much on this, thanks for all of your videos. 😄
Never learnt about topology at uni. This video is SO good.
*To achieve the exact results in the thumbnail...* In 3ds Max, If one were starting with a Spline and doing Extrude/Bevel, the way to have both smooth edges (and optimization) would be to check the 'Adaptive' check box on the Spline. The spline goes from jaggy to smooth...
bro just smoothed viewed his mesh in the thumbnail and said "yup thatll get you hired" lmaooo 💀
I'm gonna have to disagree with the thumbnail... if you do the 'correct' topology, with the Catmull algorithm, you will 100% get unevenly-sized highlights due to the uneven distances between the grid on the front plane and the supporting edge loop vertices. Absolutely would be better to have triangles radiating equally--it's a flat plane and you have a supporting edge separating the triangles from the edge anyway so you're not going to get pinching like you normally would with triangles right at edges, your highlights will still be flat, and most importantly, you'll get a perfect semi-circle supporting loop, AND the highlights around the edge won't be thicker or thinner in some places. This is one case where people apply the wrong principles. No modern renderer is going to care about triangles being in the middle of flat planes on your mesh. (edit: If the mesh HAS to deform, then yeah, triangles will be a mess, but I still wouldn't put that uneven of a grid shape just beyond the supporting loop of a shape that needs to be circular). Honestly the best approach would be to have the cylinder cap with triangles as a template subdivided with several loops, and then just remove the innermost triangles and connect them across to complete a grid.
Also, 9:16, there's an n-gon to the right of the rear vent that seems to go out of its way to be an issue, all you would have to do is remove the two edges that intersect the supporting loop below the offending vertex and just connect the incoming loop to that vertex directly.
I agree with making use of UV mapping, texures and separated meshes. When I started out, I always thought that every single detail has to be modelled from text, to labels or anything else. However, after working on a lot of projects, I realized that not everything has to be modelled as a mesh. It would be difficult to both create and modify if a client wants to make changes. So, separating meshes, using textures and such made me work smarter, not harder.
Thank you, I've been interested in 3d modelling for a long time and have tried to find help in this area but nothing made sense. Your explainations are clear, concise and actionable.
Some stuff like that VW Beetle example, when you plan to model in separate parts it's a good idea to have a reference mesh to define the main volume and then use it as the snapping surface to build your actual detailed model mesh onto. In a car example, the reference will give all the flowing forms of the body shape to it, but purposely lacks all the details - it's a simplified solid form that is only a guide for the following process.Takes all the headaches out of the vertex alignment between parts, as regardless of placement they should be conformed to the same surface definition. Kind of hard to explain in words, but there are examples of the process out there in other videos.
I know that's probably a bit beyond the scope of the topic here, but I'm sure at your level you know about it and it's still something worth a mention.
I work in VFX, and almost none of our asset archives have perfect topology. If it's going to be rigged and animated, then yes, but otherwise, absolutely not a concern.
One of the best, if not the best videos on topology out there. Thumbs up.
Thanks for the support!
the one thing that helped me create better topology....was this video! thanks JL
Good stuff. I appreciate that you just explain the concepts involved without banging on about how to actually use the software. That is a big annoyance for me in Blender videos.
Loving this video so far!
Throughout my entire time at College, everyone would make fun of me for understanding the technicalities for 3D Modelling
I have been watching your videos for the past 2 years and I am so glad that I have been able to hone in on my Topology and Modelling workflows all the more thanks to you!
Thank you!!
Glad I could be a part of your 3d journey!
@@jlmussi You will ALWAYS be part of the journey
Keep doing what you do best!
Why would people make fun of you for knowing topology ?
@@ledass7120 Because the only way they model is through non-subdiv preview. As JL Mussi put it well "Topology is for suckers, man"
Therefore, they think that they are on a higher playing field all because they think that making your models look good is a waste of time
@@hazzabe32 lol well good luck to them when they need to retopo a model or uv something. Lately people have been boolean happy, it looks like at the beginning but turns out to be useless after a while…kind of like me lol
As always JL, a great video. Really compliments your 3D mastering Topology course. Top job
Thanks Sian
Take a shot every time he sais Topology. You will literally die before making it through the first fourth of the video.
Yes.😂
one thing i learned that changed the way i see re-topology was that you can have a 3, 4, or 5 edge connecting vert and any more causes too much stress and should be avoided
1:45 speak only for yourself, I got me a knife and I'm ready for cuttin!!! 🔪
Awesome and concise vid. Love videos that are well outlined and get straight to the point.
when you wondered what geometry is going to help you back in school, guess a lot found out when they started 3d modeling 😂
Pretty great video, lots of info, what I learned hard way, in my beginnings.
Little stuff what I noticed, in video, in first topology tip, reroute, this is great stuff. People have to be aware that this method on curved surface with very glossy material, like chrome or car paint, can cause reflection distortions. And in destroy and rebuild tip, in Maya you can usually use Edge Flow tool, that way not need to always delete and rebuild topology.
I can agree with some of the principles in here. Being a tech art director tho I'll warn to never, ever use the diamond pattern like shown in this. Especially on a character and to end the buttcrack like so, use triangles or better never mess up the flow along the symmetry lines, your rigger will love you
YOOOO THAT STORM EAGLE LOOKS GORGEOUS, you just earned a sub
Just no : )))))))))
For new 3D artist who gonna join the career.
1. If you join a game company, You will be rejected because of that high-quality topology. optimized the mesh as much as possible (Remember to keep the quality and silhouette). Don't try to be fancy, every triangle and 4side faces are counted.
2. If you join a film, advertising, or animation for a cartoon, You will be rejected because of your unoriginal topology mesh. They need full square mesh or "trigon for a specific area" if it doesn't cause problems for smooth mode render.
This content is gold. I work with Blender, but I really enjoy your videos. I think every beginner should watch these tips. In fact, I'm going to use some of them in a project I'm working on right now. Thank you, Mussi, for your help in this and other videos.
Thank you, This video gives great coverage to good topology. I'll be getting my new 3D modelling students to watch this at the start of modelling process. Cheers mate!
I appreciate the support 🙏
Frankly saying I am watching ur videos daily! It really improve my! Topology and hard surface modeling 📌❣️✨good going brother! Love from 🇮🇳India
this video randomly appeared on my timeline, now im hyped to learn 3d modeling
I have been going through your vids recently and just have to express my gratitude for your work. You explain things very well and your videos have helped me grow as a 3d artist. Thank you. Also, SubD modeling has been the most useful for me so far, so the localized density was wildly helpful!
Man my mind cant stop asking me to press 1 to see those pretty models without smooth hahaha
Good work!
Thats a quite insane video! Well done i have to say. Totally agree with everything you have said in this video.
I have now multiple years of experience in 3D Modelling and also 3D CAD Engineering. I think this is another good example that 3D modelling and CAD modelling should move even closer together to harmonize the way both techniques are working.
Having the intuitive and fast way of modelling mechanical parts as we do with CAD programs combined with the freedom of mesh modellings with its optimized quad/tri count would be a nice combination.
Of course you don't want to CAD model a character's face for sure. But modelling CAD models with poly meshes only could be quite time consuming compared by doing it with proper CAD operations. (and its also quite unflexible) Mesh density would be a disadvantage of course, but with automatic retopologizers these days, its becoming less and less of an issue in the near future, in my opinion.
At the end it's always a matter of time. Sacrificing rendering speed by boosting modeling? But i think this doesn't have to be a problem in the near futures anymore.
Im already quite deep into parametric modeling and industrial, military and vehicle visualizations atm. and i think there is still a lot of head room for optimizations.
I also think that we should move away from mesh modelling, as best as possible, in the future, to use that free time for more direct modelling tasks.
Of course the UVW Mapping process should also be more parametric and flexible, which i think will be the most problematic thing to program. Also deformations could be a problem them, but with a proper parametric or CAD modeling way, i think this can be even more automatized too.
Yeah, but that's just my vison for the whole CAD and 3D modeling world.
Thanks for reading, have a nice day :)
Even though I do have years of experience in modelling, I have learned many new things from this tutorial. 🙂
This is the kind of tutorial I've been looking for a while
Fuck Polygons! If you do hard surface mechanical design picking up a good CAD program is way better than limiting yourself to these polygons like a mere mortal. I know, I was against the idea at first too, I've learned the polygonal design workflow for years but CAD just opened up so many possibilities. This video is great and I loved watching it, and I want to complement it by encouraging people to try out CAD software for themselves, with good options like Plasticity now available there's never been a better time to jump in!
Great video JL. All the points you touched are fundamental for creating great Art! You know your stuff!
Much appreciated!
My course just gave us an assignment to make a 3D character and a 3D environment without even teaching us these basics, which has been causing me so much grief. Thank you.
3:10 I feel you. I can draw pretty well and high poly sculpting has felt surprisingly easy for me but trying to create optimal topology is really really hard. I'm still on the borderline if AI guided topology is going to fix the issue faster than I can learn it (when I do 3D modeling as a hobby only).
After watching this video, I think I'm trying to avoid poles too much (e.g. "5 star points") and I end up with excessive edge loops all around the object.
The best Tip I can give to this is, when creating a new shape, always minimize those to zero, this means never allow other than quads, if you do one step and you got triangles or similar, correct then before moving ahead the shape. This also forces you to pre-plan significantly the design and start with rough topology and later relay on modifiers to get a higher polycount.
The problem of "leave then for later" will multiply your frustration easily x2 or x4 even with success, not even talking about what would happen when you invest 3 hours on retopology and notice you are not making any progress. Not saying it would be impossible but certainly it can be a time sinkhole and I think is only ok when you really want to invest time on a trully original, or unfortunated "fun modeling" where you over with a great shape but terrible topology.
PS: Mini Tip: the most important part of the topology are the "corners" make well the corners and the topology most of the times will become clean and closer to be the most efficent ratio poly/quality you can get on certain shape. Like on a puzzle if you need to start with a main fundation, start on a corner and define the others from this one, if you manage to follow the quad rule meanwhile the experience of modeling feels like when using a bike you reach a downward slope.
@@BioClone Sure, if you do simple enough objects, it's easy to use nice flow with quads from the start. However, if you're sculpting e.g. a dragon with horns and spikes in the spine + wings, it's very hard to keep nice quad flow during the sculpting.
@@MikkoRantalainen Yeah organic elements are harder to conceive with good topology but it still aplies, While not my main interest actually I noticed with human modeling that correct topology por organic things are even more welcome in comparison with non-organic stuff.
On that case for example I would consider split elements (such horns) and maybe wings depending how is going to be the model (if the muscules for the wings pretends to be realistic most probably this wont be a good idea) and then apply the same philosophy, such start on the "nose" or on the Ears. and move towads the chin, then from neck to shoulder etc..
At the end this remembers me like planning a city on certain games such Cities Skylines... If you plane the main cross roads (in the case the corret topology and poles on the main geometry points) then later is much easier to develop a working model.
I wish i had this about 4 years ago when starting out. I was, even in the beginning very meticulous about good topology. But had a hard type finding resources to help me understand how. So I had to learn trial by error. And still to this day search for information to help me improve. Thanks! Also i have always avoided booleans because of the mess they create but after watching this, i am considering giving them a second chance. They would be very useful in some situations.
Great video and all these tips are fully usable even though I'm actually using Blender instead of Maya!
Thanks for sharing this information. I'd struggled with texturing and uv mapping/ and topology in the past any clarity and new information on this subject is thoroughly needed. Thank you.
I'm happy I made your 3d journey a bit easier.
Excellent tutorial. I have been learning to implement the principles in your video.
For other Blender noobs like me: I could not reproduce his line straightening magics. So I googled and found this neat trick:
Select your Edge Loop. Press 'S' then the axis you want to flatten it to and then '0' on the num pad. Abracadabra it's al perfectly straight!
You can test this by making 2 loop cuts on the default cube and messing one up and then try this.
Yup, that's how you do it in Blender!
@@jlmussi thanks for your good work.
Learning 3D modeling from zero is daunting, but people like you make it fun and rather quick!
Having to master retopology is where half of my time went with my old business. It's getter better but will never be 100% automated
wow, your story telling skills and knowledge (teaching) is really good, I was hooked to the video from start till end !
Glad you enjoyed it!
24:31 But when you attach that part, you no longer have access to all the previous modifiers of the original object to make adjustments? Or does Maya offer something like this?
The video is great, but your thumbnail is misleading. Converging all of the edges into the center is a perfectly viable solution if you've got a polycount limit and the object isn't deforming or you're not subdividing it. Granted, today you're not likely to have such poly constraints, but for static meshes that are just environment decoration, it doesn't matter what your edge flow looks like.
Thank you for this great tutorial, these techniques are extremely helpful!
In my experience I can say that In games low density topology and triangles are perfectly fine, sometimes also characters would have triangles and "messy" topology in some areas of the geo
15:10 i cant imagine lecturing people about "good topology" while showing the most cursed shit i've seen and show it as a good example
21:22 I gotta admit that was pretty eye-opening.
This thing is very informative and helpful. To the point with facts!
This is a good video. Explaining the why more than the how. I like it. Clearly taught.
Thank you so much for this tutorial. Very useful for me as an architect
I only clicked and commented on this video because I was fixated on the toggle buttons in your thumbnail being in the same direction yet meaning contrasting things. I'm sure the tips are fine.
This was a great rundown on modeling in general!
Now, looking for that Substance Painter tutorial, that one looked great.
Remember, N-Gons and Tris are NOT evil. Edge flow is the MOST important.
Not on deforming meshes