Mixers Inside: Omnitronic TRM-202 MK3 + Isolator EQ explained
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ค. 2024
- This time we will look at Omnitronic TRM-202 MK3 mixer. Till the very end of video you will constantly face some interesting facts.
00:00 looking inside
04:22 isolator EQ explained
05:08 sound experiment
06:58 measurements
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Can’t understate the amount of work you put into this video, thanks 🙏🏿.
Oh my... on the other side, that's why i've decided to start making my own mixers, EQs and channel strips - even expensive mixers are just a basic standard "nothing to write mama home about" - just like inexpensive Behrs and Mackies, except Alps pots on faders... pity. We want more that just this, we want GREAT opamps, we want nice warm nonlinear circuits - that's what analog is all about!
Thank you for your job!
Well said. Salute!
Thank you for this, please keep making them!!
Thanks for implementing mini practical tips about how theory meets ableton!
Very nice review! Thank you
Another awesome little video about a pretty awesome little mixer! My experience with the MK2 was not so great, but this seems solid!
Would love to know what those jumpers at 3:18 do as well.
I hope one day you can make a video about the Ecler Warm 2 or Warm 4... preferably the 4 since I'm considering switching to it from my Taula ;)
Someone in the comment section already wrote about the jumpers!
Had the TRM402 for two years and I was so blown away by it I bought a Condesa (Lucia). And honestly, for home use the Omni really comes close in sound quality and summing capabilities to it when playing from a digital source like CDJ2000's. It's when you really start cranking up the volume an a serious soundsystem that the Condesa really starts to shine.
For the price it's an insane mixer and I can higly recommend it if you want to dip your toes into rotary mixers. Built quality is really high and it feels like a tank. It's the phono amps, isolator and the 3 band channel eq in the Condesa that make the difference compared to the Omni, they are superb in every way compared to ANY mixer (it should offcourse as the Condesa is 8 times(!) the price of the TRM202).
Overall I find the sound quality of the Omni's way better than a DJM700 or 800, and more on par like a DJM900. I can highly recommend it, and for it's price it's a fun addition to any dj set as mixing with a rotary is a different experience and mixing appraoch than a standard mixer.
Thanks for your comment. I feel a significant influence from the widespread excitement about Condesa mixers here. I hope to make an episode about those "legendary" devices so people can compare their build quality to other mixers and verify their opinion.
Would be very interesting to see how a Condesa is build up on the inside from an engineer’s point of view and find out if these boutique mixers really are worth their money!
@ltdada74 Also have had a 402 for years and this is a great summary. Never played on a condesa or Alpha etc.. But the sound quality has always been more than sufficient. I love my 402 and will probably never get rid of it.
Is it possible to monitor the master with the ISO using headphones?
Interesting the power supply is completely metal closed vs the more expensive mixers you took apart in a other video.I am looking for a simple stereo mixer with some eq. This thing looks great.
For this price it's unbeatable.
Thank you for this. Very interested to see if the more expensive mixers with slick marketing are functionally any different than these cheaper rotaries
Finding this out is pretty much the main goal of this channel, and it will not only cover rotary mixers.
Great mixer!
Thank you man 👍🏼
Would it also be possible to mod this mixer to improve it further? Like converting the line/phono to phono only or line only w/ external preamp? Again, super happy you're doing this. I really think you're filling a big gap in knowledge that ive been pondering about. Really want to get in diy mixers... Thanks again!
Try swapping the op amps from the phono amp to OPA1656 for example. I didn't try this and can't guarantee it will be stable, but should be fine. IC1 and IC10 in input/output board are working in phono stage.
Generally you can play with swapping the op amps, but remember - not every op amp will behave properly.
A nice little honest mixer with no BS, I do wish they would put a by-pass switch for the ISO tho and not just on this but others of this kind. On things like the DJR-400 I feel it's the only thing that really tends to degrade it's sound. The original Bozak also uses a Bax style eq for the master output ;) But I like where they chose the bands it boosts and attenuates 60hz and 10k
Can you explain what "BS" is?
@@mixersinside Bullshit :D Unrelated but if you'd measure the old Urei and Bozak's, they're pretty terrible. The Urei has a lot of distortion and pretty poor PSU, the Bozak again similar but less so but a lot of PSU ripple. Cross talk etc is also pretty pants depending on what you've done to it. Contrary to belief also the RIAA pre on the Bozak is flat or at least on my unit when I tested it on a Lindos unit. You should have a look at the silver A&H Xone 62, always liked those and now get overshadowed by other stuff.
@@vinyljunkie07 I know Xone 62 well - the sound signature of this mixer is mostly shaped by SSM2164 VCA and in terms of distortion it's also nothing spectacular (but the sound is nice and round). Phono preamp in 62 is single stage active on NE5532 - not a standout. Apart from that it has pretty much the same circuitry as other mixers.
And it has strange EQ, the low knob is behaving weird. They fixed it in 92 mixer.
@@mixersinside I never used those things when I mix on them lol I hate the sound when the filter is enabled and it just adds noise from memory, also I always have the x-fader bypassed for me... And eq most of the time.. But always liked the cut of the faders, the feel also (The 92's are far too loose feeling) and the sound wasn't hard in any way. I dislike the high capacitive loading on the phono inputs considering the turntable alone with it's wires will add another 120pf if it's a 1200 mk2 which seems to be across the board on their mixers.
Hi Kamil, great content you are providing, )'m really thankfully for your work, I have this mixer right here, and I've seen your recently RANE MP2016 and XONE also, do you think based on your experience and knowledge that would be possible to modify TRM with more quality components present on that mixers, or even make a simple smaller one like TRM 202 bases on the same principles and components? Cheers
Yes, for sure. Good starting point is experimenting with op amps, not necessarily more expensive ones.
It would be interesting to see a comparison with the Subzero 2 channel mixer, it seems to be the same mixer but rebranded at a lower price. Wonder if they cut any corners 🤔
I'm going to pester my friend to lend me a Subzero.
Would love to see a video on that. Just ordered a subzero simply because it seems the same from many reviews.
good channel
I'd love to see a TRM-202 vs ECLER WARM2. I would love to know if paying double is worth it. :)
Ecler Warm 2 video with a nice bonus coming soon.
Still sending outputs to my Technics 1200's with this faithful 2 channel mixer. Always have the master at 12 o'clock, the levels dial never been near the 3rd dots and rarely see the green LED's blink past -25 but they can if I turn into an asshole, the Yamaha and KRK monitors get very loud in that zone, I could have my dials set all wrong but from what I can hear this is a very good mixer.
Hi there. Great review! I have one for a few years now, and I'm really happy with mixer for the price.
I think the phono pre-amps are pretty crap, but fortunately I have a dual tube valve phono pre-amp.
Could you run some measurements on the phono pre-amps, Master and Booth outputs? That would be awesome.
Keep up the great work.
Thanks
I did measurements on master outputs. If you watch my other videos you will easily find out that phono preamps here are almost the same as in Ecler or Rane mixers.
I don't want to make this channel a measurement hub, i do measurements to give you an idea whether mixer is more on transparent or dirty side and don't want to expand it much.
I always bit doubted about this mixer until i had a chance to use it in thailand / I was surprised how it deliver sound transparently !! And the other DJ after me were using DJM900 and the sound got worsen so much
Thank you, I have learned alot 🙏🏽. Do you have any links / a suggestion for schematic good Isolator circuit ? Thanks.
Check out my Rane video. You will find full schematic of isolator there.
Hello, first of all thank you for sharing your knowledge, it's very valuable !
I have a question about the THD+N measured at nominal level. The measured THD+N value (-75.1dB) seems to be relatively high compared to the THD (-101.9dB). And when you look at the Bozak values in your last video, the 2 values (THD and THD+N measured at nominal level) are almost equal.
Does this mean that the performance of the Omnitronics in terms of noise isn't great, or is this a "normal" value and the near equality between the THD and THD+N values of the Bozak comes from the high THD of the latter? I hope I've made myself clear, thanks in advance :)
I'm very glad that you watched this video with such attention to details.
The difference between THD and THD+N value in Omnitronic mixer shouldn't be a surprise, because the THD alone doesn't take the noise component into account, and well - the Omnitronic noise performance isn't spectacular. I suspect that it's hard to achieve better noise figures using ICs from this price range.
Close values of THD and THD+N in Bozak should also not be surprising, because the THD alone of Bozak is so high, that adding the noise component doesn't make much difference.
I hope you find this explanation clear - if not i'm here to further discuss the topic.
@@mixersinside It's very clear, thank you!
Hi and congrats for this very specific and interesting youtube channel!! Concerning the shared LINE/Phono inputs I think the different THD figure comes from how the RIAA is bypassed when LINE is selected. Most of the phono single OPAMP stage put the switch in series with the input series Resistor + capacitor conencted to the non inverting terminal of the opamp, when the switch is open, the RIAA stage becomes a voltage follower. Other mixers short circuit the inverting input with the output. It would be interesting to know which topology this mixer uses.
Concerning the ISOLATOR frequency response, I think the plot and result you show is not the intrinsic response of the isolator but of the overall mixer (Input stage, GAIN, EQ, ISOLATOR), correct?
Thanks and keep up the good work!
Hello, first of all thank you for the kind words!
I just checked the phono/line switch and i'm almost sure that it short circuits the inverting input with the output.
And sure, i didn't measure the isolator alone.
Cheers 🥂
Thanks, that would explain the issue I think. Anyway, do you use REW for your measurements? I used it in the past and it’s great
@@iacacch yes, i use REW, amazing tool.
@@iacacch btw you must send invoice to Omnitronic for fixing the bug 🤭
@@mixersinside ahaha
My old Vestax packed in a couple of years ago and my poor old 1210's have been incomplete.
I wasjust about to buy an Ecler nuo 2 and that is how I found you.... Thank you for such in depth reviews and testing.
I am intrigued by the Omnitronics am I right in thinking the sound is better (subjective I know) on the Omni than the Ecler??
I want faders, do you know if the Omnitronic pm 322 uses the same components/has the same sound quality??
Thank you
To judge the sound quality you must listen - this is the final criteria. Numbers and measurements can help you to indicate if there is something going wrong or not according to the plan. I won't answer your question.
Regarding this omnitronic mixer - i don't know.
Cheers!
@@mixersinside I thought you would say something along those lines.
I loved the sound of my old Vestax which had a fair amount of distortion, definitely not clean but it did draw you in somehow.
Also, I find when playing CDJ's or wav files a bit of added body from the mixer can be fun. Ill probably stick with the plan an get the Ecler
Many thanks for your reply.
I'm looking for TRM-422, Do you guys know if it's possible to monitor the master with the ISO using headphone?
I have a question if I order from the usa what kinds of plug will it have for the wall??
this is the question for Omnitronic customer service
Thank you! What are the jumpers on the top right at 3:22 ?
You're welcome! I didn't check the jumpers; I was more focused on other things. Once I have the opportunity to check it, I will let you know.
First thing i'd like to know as well!
Could this be to switch the meters between output level or mix (pre-master)? I've had a few friends ask me to do this as a modification to their TRM, would be great if this feature is already implemented.
Omnitronic said “Hi! You can use it to make the isolator audible in the headphones. I hope that will help you. Greetings! Simon // Omnitronic-Team”
@@cassettedreams8868 too bad 😞
Thanks for explaining this from a scientific perspective. I would love to see an ecler warm 2 breakdown. The question to be answered: is a hand build boutique mixer that much better than a mass production product?
Hello, I kindly inform that I don't do requests. If you want to see a particular mixer, please send it to me and I will film and comment it with pleasure. This channel is not financed in any way and I don't have funds to do requests. Thanks for understanding.
Regarding your question: I will keep providing you information and leave the synthesis of facts to you :)
Are the pots VCA ? or does the audio run through them ?
Non VCA, passive attenuation using stereo pots here (audio runs through them).
OMG , that is a HUGE fail . . . . @@mixersinside
@@user-rv8wb1nl1b why? I don't agree that it's a fail. Most of rotary mixers have audio running through their pots. VCA sollution has more distortion than passive one. I cover this topic in Ecler Nuo 2.0 vs Warm 2 video.
in the medium to long term you do not want audio going through the things you tweak and turn most often . Inevitable crackles , why would a vca have higher distortion (if its even audible ) ? rotary mixers are a bit of a fad , whatever next . go Mancuso Loft party and have no mixer , just an amp . . . ?@@mixersinside
@@user-rv8wb1nl1b so you consider a budget mixer not using more advanced sollution (that still can degrade THD performance and there is a reason to avoid it) as a huge fail?
It's a shame you can't bypass the iso :((
They spend maybe £25 to manufacture this mixer
nonsense comment
@@mixersinside 250 retail. Retail price is usually x10 than actual production cost. Look at the components cost and circuit board. It's a fully analog mixer. Nothing crazy. Very cheap and easy to make
@@MartinTeerly if you happen to design a good performing £25 mixer with metal casing, reliable power supply, decent quality pots etc. please contact me via mixersinside@gmail.com, i have a businessplan.
@@mixersinsideyou already said in your video that circuit board is also used in different model. I also want to to look on studio mixers and it's pricing. They're very cheap. Current prices of DJ mixers is ruled by Pioneer.
@@MartinTeerly please be realistic and do your research before posting such comments. Cheers.
@mojaxx sent me, looking forwards to your channel!👌🏿👌🏿🇬🇧