Drinker's Chasers - New Trek, Old Ideas
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- One of the many problems with new Star Trek is that all it can really do is keep rehashing old ideas that were once cool and popular. And as we discovered, the more you overuse something, the less interesting it becomes.
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New Trek can't destroy how I feel about old Trek. In fact it has made me appreciate it more.
That's true for some, but the words "Retroactively destroy something you used to love" is one of the most harrowing things I have heard said in regards to fiction. There is no good intent behind people who entertain that level of malice.
yes i really wanted to like Picard but even i Die hard fan couldn't finish it. Its just too terrible... I dont mind that the story went dark.... I just dont like the lack of a story.
Heck, even the Star Wars prequels are getting some love these days.
I agree completely.
I grew up as a fan of Terminator, Alien and Highlander. And because of the garbage sequels they got, I had to learn how to compartmentalize bad entries in my favourite franchises.
That's how I can still watch the og Robocop and pretend Robocop 3 doesn't exist. Same with Star Wars and the Disney movies.
Resistance is futile. We will dilute your expectations and add your favourite characters to our collective of mediocrity.
"Evil cannot be creative, it can only corrupt what already exists"
- Tolkien
Really gets to the heart of our character; imperfect but redeemable.
Always in conflict with our nature and balance between order and chaos.
Oh my word! That’s a great quote! I’ve never seen that before!!!!!
That is all the woke mob know how to do. They have become a literal walking virus upon the world.
Why is it so hard to give up a franchise and create something new or even if it's similar, with a different name and approach? Do they have to besmirch, spoil, taint, everything good that came before, and pathetically attempt to rewrite history? Profit is not a concern anymore, these sickos and their Midas touch in reverse only want to spread "THE MESSAGE". Let THE BEAST starve.
Tell that to Amber Heard. She's very creative with her lies.
With the Borg it's just more proof that some questions should never be answered.
We don't need to know everything about the Borg or Q. Cause the more we learn the less scary and impressive they become.
To a certain extend i agree with you.
I would however say more questions answered isn´t necessarily a bad thing unknown and scary can only get you so far.
The sound of giants footsteps stops being scary if the giant never shows up.
Where the borg failed isn´t because they stopped being mysterious it was because they became de-fanged, the villains of the month in Voyager and after Janeway´s ultimate weapon, the borg became a joke.
If the borg are supposed to be scary once again we need more battles like that in the beginning of first contact (before Picard showed up) and the Battle of Wolf 359.
The Borgs needs to be this enemy that while you can defeat it, it will be at great cost.
They should be a shit just got serious.
At the same time don´t skimp on the details when turned into a borg, go into a VERY Detailed description about how you lie there paralyzed feeling your individuality slowly being drained away.
Feeling something under your skin that starts as a slight tingle, then becomes an itch, then turns into a a slight pain only to finally turn into a burning pain rupturing through your skin, burrowing into your flesh and bones.
and you can do NOTHING but lie there unable to move unable to scream, just watch and feel as the borg drones slowly turns you into them.
Now THAT would make the Borg actually scary because you know that every crewmember who becomes assimilated has to go through that.
and suddenly Picard´s mercy killing of the crew member doesn´t seem so heartless all of a sudden.
So again the mysterious thunderous footstep of the giant is scary yes, but for it to remain scary, you have to see the giant you have to witness the destruction it causes up close and personal.
Then the sounds of those mysterious foot steps become scary, because you KNOW what it can mean.
Yea, it's about understanding something. And the more you understand something the less you fear it, generally speaking.
I saw them as societies far more advanced than anything the Federation could ever hope to match. Then Picard had to ruin it.
Trying to explain Q is a bizarre choice, given what we know about them/him.
@@undefinedvariable8085 Depends on what you replace the understanding with.
A predator doesn´t become less scary because you understand the 1001 way it can maul and kill you.
Sure you can say but now i understand its weakness hits it, in that particular spot and it becomes helpless.
Sure, but good luck ever reaching that spot before it has completely mauled and killed you.
That´s the thing i think most modern day writers seems to forget.
No it doesn´t matter that you remove the mystery from the villains, as long as you replace it with something that still makes it scary.
I think Doctor who is another example of a writers not getting it.
The Daleks are supposed to be these scary things when they show up things just got SERIOUS.
They have eradicated entire nations, a single Dalek managed to exterminate a legion of trained soldiers.
The Doctor´s people went to war against them, and lost.
And yet the doctor defeats them every time... like it was just another tuesday.
How are they supposed to remain scary,
if their defeat is a foregone conclusion?
As said before a giant is only scary as long as you see the destruction it causes and also sometimes you lose against it.
I listen to the "Always Sunny In Philadelphia" podcast and even they have a person whose sole job is to follow continuity for the show. They keep track of everything from plot, storyline, where people are standing, what hand they are holding something in, wardrobe, etc.. The guys also say they don't give a shit about story continuity so that job must be miserable lol.
If Nu Trek ever had someone like that, they must be fucking terrified of the coke demon Goldsman, because even the simplest errors are left unchecked.
The Borg were definitively ruined after "First Contact".
Giving them a queen or figurehead of any type destroys what made them so frightening and seemingly unstoppable.
I think the queen worked for a bit, but she should never have been in charge of the collective. She should have just been a tool similar to Locutus. Maybe even have her as an answer to Hugh gaining his independence, but never in control of the collective as a whole. At most a locus of the collective for a moment.
YES. Giving them a queen makes them so much less intimidating.
@@jjkrayenhagen exactly. The idea that she had her own will or personally was so counterintuitive to the nature of what the borg were.
the borg were downgraded even with locutus. they were never as intimidating as they were when they were a homogeneous mass of minds forced together with nano technology like they were in their first appearance.
I think the queen shouldn't be THE collective but A center point for the collective, like a router or something.
I almost dropped my breakfast plate when Gary sai, "They've joined the Federation!" This is way past incompetent writing, this is purposeful destruction.
This is like the Third Reich joining the United States of America, except on a cosmic scale.
"Sure, you've destroyed my planet and turned my loved ones into mindless meat puppets to do your bidding, but _welcome to the club_ !"
when i first heard about this(no i dont watch this BS anymore) i really felt like, this has to be a joke, they cant be serious!
I felt the same way when I heard a young Leia was in Kenobi.
I haven't watched a piece of Star Wars media since TLJ or played a game. Yet they found another vital Organa of the story and stabbed it, and I felt it.
@@EvilDoresh It's worse. It's like a species of invasive killer wasps being invited into the UN Council for the Protection of Natural Polinators.
Brent also played Arik Soong in enterprise. The only way I could respect this is, as a geneticist and a narcissist he has cloned himself through the generations. Not that Kurtzman would ever think of that.
Or he engineered his DNA to practically clone himself with his kids would be a good idea.
Would make sense, since they all pretty much follow the same career path as well, with some slight deviations.
@@Shiirow All but Noonien whom went into cybernetics but even then he also copied himself twice too.
There’s a great scifi novella called The 5th Head of Cerberus based on this idea :)
Well, he was rather full of himself in Enterprise...
When Q leans in to whisper something in Picard's ear at the end of All Good Things you SEE a flash of regret on Q's face that is gone before Picard can see it. Q CARED about Picard but he knew at that point in time that their time was over. Picard learned and grew from interacting with Q and the reverse was true as well.
There was no reason for them to meet again and in fact it should not have happened. It lessened the character by shoehorning him into Voyager and later Picard.
Since Q can exist outside of time, I didn't have a problem with him showing up in Voyager--those were fun episodes. But they should've left him out of any further interaction with Picard for the reasons you stated. Picard has just been a dumpster fire.
Hey...nice avatar!
@@projektkobra2247 On the one hand, classic sci-fi reference. On the other, it's trying very hard to make you think of Nazis without actually being their symbol.
@@boobah5643 IKR?...I also had the serious hots for Jane Badler.....what a goddess.
Picard is non-canon.
The dude that wrote Ren and Stimpy said his show was successful because he never did the same joke twice. One and done is the best way if you are excellent. Cheers Drinker you moany cahnt .
WHAT. IS IT. MAN????
And then he became a pedophile.
John Kricfaluzi? I never get this name straight.
afaik they even tried to make every single facial expression unique
@@CCEkeke Hog Jowls...
I also feel this way as Critical feels about how they've misused the Borg and Star Trek overall. It's truly disappointing, particularly as they clearly hate the audience snd the fan base.
This is why you NEED someone creative in the writer's room. Hell, get five or six to endlessly bounce off each other and a few editors to keep everything straight. If you get some immensely different people working together and bouncing off each other endlessly then you'll have a seemingly endless well of ideas. Or at least one so deep to get a solid six or seven seasons out of it.
The problem is that ideology gets in the way of that no matter what form of idea is being tossed around.
That cost too much, studios would rather hire bottom of the barrel cheapo writers that are happy to get some work, instead of competent writers that know their worth and ask for approriate pay for their skills...
@@HermitGeek If you're not willing to pay for quality craftmanship then you're not willing to have quality products. Good things cost money to make. That is a fact of life.
@@MagicalMaster:Sadly Trek like Scooby Doo is now a commodity that's being made solely to make $ not to also tell a story.
They won’t do that. They have said that they don’t want anyone with any knowledge of Star Trek. And Kurtzman himself said he’s using the franchise as a platform for THE MESSAGE.
@@HermitGeek The work is the quality of a waiter who happened to be free that day---how much could it cost to hire a few more?
I felt so bad for Mike on RLM's video when he admitted he'd lost his love of Star Trek after enduring STD and Picard.
Trek fans are like battered wives at this point.
Same here. For years, if I was bored, I’d toss on some old Trek and kill time. But I’ve noticed that recently I never really feel like watching even old Trek and I can only chalk it up to subconscious franchise fatigue from the new shows
After a certain point, it’s on them for continuing to watch this crap. I get it’s their job and gets them views, but the shows really don’t deserve the attention.
Just ignore them.
I agree. Kinda sad to hear him say that.
"after enduring STD"
I mean, that's quite a fitting acronym.
When the Aliens TV show comes out, the humans will finally figure out how to turn the xenomorphs into pets. 🤣
Have you read Dark Horse's 'Aliens:Music of the Spears'? That could happen. Good read though.
The point of the movies were the corporations trying to make them into pets or use them to create supersoldiers
@@kevins4213 How bout world domination? Wayland and Yutani wants like every conglomerate goals of becoming gods.
Even if it works, the woke writers will f**k it up probably. 😔
@@Samaritan38 I hated those parts in the comic. Using the aliens as guard dogs or sniffer dogs.
It would actually be horrifying if they "joined the federation" simply to infiltrate them over time. Piece by piece.
I actually think that it would be cool if it was the reason they gave Voyager Seven of Nine way back in Voyager.
But I know these people don't have a creative bone in their body, and that probably won't happen with these writers.
And if it did happen the Borg would suddenly announce it to the entire galaxy. _This was our plan all along!_ *evil laugh*
They would become cartoonish villains while the crew cries and whines about how they got tricked. All for the sake of "intelligent emotional drama."
@@flameshana9 It's funny, because Voyager literally teased more or less the exact same scenario I just laid out.
They basically implied they had Seven join Voyager to collect data on humanity for this exact purpose.
One of the most hated shows of the franchise, and even it had more interesting ideas than modern Trek.
"A beautiful parasite."
Have them sell Borg Cola laced with nanites.
Creativity goes against their belief system.
This is entertainment today, you dont need anything new or take risks and make something new just keep jingling keys
and hope the 'memberberries' keep you seeing how diluted and ruined the original ideas are from mediocre writers.
the episode many years ago when Q introduces Picard and crew to The Borg is incredible - he literally says "oh yeah? You think you got it all figured out here? Meet these guys" - the crew are literally thrown in neck deep with something terrifying.
one of the greatest NG moments for sure, i remember how this impressed me so much as a teenager
I’m not sure that the purpose of these new shows ISN’T to kill my enjoyment of the old ones. Can’t have a Great Leap Forward with the past hanging around...
I just don't watch it, and that makes it easier for me.
“Let the past die. Kill it if you have to.”-The Last Jedi (or something)
It's not Communist China's fault that Star Trek is now mostly terrible. Communism killed 100 million people, but it's not _that_ evil.
They're bringing back the entire TNG cast!?!? 😳😲
Do you smell that??? That's the smell of desperation. 🙄🙄😒😒
The Queen as the embodiment of the collective mind of the Borg, a sort of Avatar, isn’t a bad idea. I wouldn’t say it was needed, but as long as she isn’t her own individual and just the representation of the collective, it can work. Especially if they can just replace her with more Queens in an emergency to show how she is just an avatar of their collective mind.
It’s when they made the Queen more of an individual leading the Borg that the problem really began to show up.
@Captain McDog Pretty much, they are the total lack of individuality. Alive yet almost the opposite of really living. Something truly alien to not only humanity but all life in the universe and that is what makes them so terrifying. What they are and what they can take away from you and turn you into.
Every drone is a representative. It makes no sense to have a special one.
There doesn't need to be a representative, the Borg speak in many voices (watch their first episode) which makes them much more terrifying. The whole point of the Borg was they cannot be bargained with.
There's no Diplomacy and they are far beyond the federations level of technology. They didn't even where interested in biological life, only in technology (better said ressources) to convert it into their own tech. They where a more like a force of nature than just another faction.
Everything the Federation was good at, didn't apply to the Borg. They where almost a lovecraftian lurking evil that's unstoppable. THAT was why they where so terryfying. Not because they where Space zombies lead by a manipulable Queen.
@@nealsterling8151 They cannot be bargained with because they see individuality as a flaw that needs to be fixed. Once you're part of their club there is no more need for bargaining.
And they _do_ care about biological life. That's why they assimilate. Don't forget that "We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own" is part of their catchphrase.
I agree. I'm not discarding the idea of the Borg Queen, either, just cos some idiots don't know how to write a show.
The bit about First Contact that does make me laugh though is at the end when Picard says to Geordi La Forge "can you recreate that vortex thingy?" And he replies so casually, like forming a time vortex thingy is something that he does before breakfast every day!! 🤣
"They can retroactively destroy your enjoyment of something". Spot on, Drinker. Precisely why I refuse to watch them. 'The Force Awakens' showed me that. I got sucked in by the trailers. Never again.
First Contact started the downfall of the Borg which was further messed up with Voyager. I’m still salty all these years later about how one lone cube just completely demolished 39 Federation ships but later one alone Federation ship (yes, with future tech because the Voyager would always use temporal nonsense and the Delta quadrant is full of them) crippled the whole collective. And that’s not even me getting into the missed opportunities and clichés that Voyager was ripe with. All that being said, I still like OG Trek and DS9 is best Trek but TNG is Trek at its best
Even that you could have somewhat salvaged if Seven of Nine was part of a larger plan to take over the Federation by stealth.
They implied they were working on airborne Borg Viruses in a episode of Voyager, so it would fit the cannon.
That would require good writers however, and the modern day politically driven and elevated studios have none of that.
* rife with. But, yeah, the power of the Borg in TNG was how utterly alien they were - unstoppable, impossible to reason with - and the prospect of them locating earth was properly chilling. Turned out it was no big deal, and now Borgs are friends, crew-members, and (apparently) members of the Federation. I don't even want to believe that last part is true.
Voyager properly killed the borg before first contact.....i didn;t even bother with first contact....never have seen it cus I was al borged out after voyager, to me they aren't scary anymore, they're the new klingons of course STP would make em allies.....TNG made allies of the Klingons
@@darthXreven First Contact is definitely worth a watch - the Borg are in it surprisingly little, considering it was sold as a "Borg invasion of Earth" film. It's got more in common with Back To The Future, tbh, with a time-travel gimmick and the TNG crew running around the old post-WW3 Earth trying to make sure humanity's first contact with the Vulcans happens like it did in the history-books of their timeline.
@@blatherskite3009 it's just Skeletor tries to take castle Greyskull for the 100'th time
it's Cobra Commander tries to take GI Joe base for the 100'th time, it's just another cliche villain of the week story that belonged as an episode all of the TNG movies were like that actually
YT has the first episode of Paramount's new Trek show. It is all a special effects driven garbage. The writing and acting is terrible. Everything Drinker complains about, I witnessed. Female characters that confirm bad female stereotypes as catty and petty, other characters who are written like a child, and the Captain who is weak and indecisive and fearful, which is not what a someone who captains a start ship would be like.
12:48 That was their intention all along. Many modern shows spit on the original with such malice and contempt for the characters and story. They WANT to taint the good memories. Some people just love to destroy things that made other people happy.
Thats why I never watch any of their new bullshit. So they can sit and spin
The 2nd Doctor: "It's sad, really. People spend all their time making nice things and then other people come along and destroy them."
The Borg should have been done with First Contact. Only have watched the Star Trek movies and Enterprise so I am not too familiar with the universe, but with that movie I felt like it wrapped up Picard's personal conflict with the Borg. I didn't mind their little cameo in Enterprise but I do feel like First Contact should have been the end of them, at least for the TNG crew. But no, Kurtzman has to keep going back to the Borg because he doesn't actually watch the Star Trek shows and has only watched (passively) Wrath of Khan, First Contact, and now Voyage Home. Even as a none Trek person I know more than Kurtzman.
You have seen a very odd selection of Trek! The Borg stuff regarding Picard is much more fleshed out in TNG.
There is not really any conflict between Picard and the Borg. He already had a confrontation with the Collective when he met Hugh in "I, Borg".
The plot of Picard wanting revenge on the Borg was added in First Contact.
That's a good point. Now that you mention it, it was the exact same problem with _Terminator: Salvation_ : they felt they needed a boss villain. I think _First Contact_ was great but it did kinda destroy the Borg after that. But _Voyager_ made The Borg seem boring. Kurtzman knows exactly what he's doing because all he's doing is making money and being invited to Hollywood cocaine parties.
Enterprise showed the Borg being scary. It doesn't get enough love for that, even as someone who recognizes it's flaws.
Indeed the Borg were overused, but one has to say they more or less had to show up in Voyager for things to make sense, them being from the place Voyager was sent to and having a presumably huge empire there. They should have limited their appearances though, and not nerf them as much.
If you guys want to go over a franchise character assasination, look into Burt Gummer from the Tremors franchise
Tremors should've been a 1 & done! Yikes! You don't need sequels for a devoted fan base. A great one-off will create a solid cult following which will be more satisfying.
Burt Gummer in '24!
@@williamramirez7559 Its like Big Trouble In Little China. A perfect one and done movie. I really hope that sequel never gets made.
@@williamramirez7559 - Tremors 2 was alright, 3 and on were total garbage though
I did like it when after discovering Burt's bunker had a secret escape tunnel, Chang's neice grabbed him by the lapels and said, "Burt, I like you!" and he shouted, "You SHOULD!".
Why couldn't they try exploring new races or confederations? As much heat as Mass Effect Andromeda got, I liked that it tried to explore NEW things.
The idea can be good and have terrible implementation
Honestly, it's because "exploring strange new worlds" is done. Star Trek would just be repeating itself. Even The Orville, which is the best new Star Trek, doesn't really do a lot of episodes about meeting the aliens of the week. It's kind of been done to death.
The problem is just that Nu-Trek doesn't have anything good to replace it with. The Orville has great stories. DS9 had great stories. Enterprise... had promise. There was nothing fundamentally flawed about doing a prequel, they just went about it wrong, gave up half-way through, and could only get it back on track in the last season. But Nu-Trek is just schlock.
Never does any of the new shit affect my love of the legacy Trek. I am a huge fan since the 70s when I was a kid watching the syndicated reruns of Star Trek TOS. This new crap will never ever diminish my love for TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager or Enterprise five unbelievably remarkable series. (With DS9 and Enterprise being my 1st and 2nd faves) If anything it just makes me appreciate legacy Trek even more.g
Keep on loving it, no matter what happens.
@@NebLleb I am always running through, from start to finish, at least one series. Right now I am in season 4 of Enterprise. Probably either Voyager or DS9 next. But I watch it, literally, almost everyday.
The question is why is it so difficult create dramatic evil characters? Even worse when it does happen they all have the same trajectory they start of truly evil and 5 seasons later they are your best pal.
Modern writers have this paranoia that they might create the next Hitler if they write an irredeemable bad guy who is also _cool_
The end result is villains who are either inept or get an undeserved redemption arc to make them good.
Star Trek Into Plagiarism.
To Boldy and frequently go where everyone has gone before!
The Borg joinging The Federation is the most nonsensicle thing I have ever heard.
Both 'philosophies' could not be more the opposite, the Borg grow and develop through consuming other cultures and assimilating their technological achievements, resources, and their populations if these are useful to the Collective.
@@TheDutchGhost Sounds like the Federation to me.
But seriously, I have no idea why anyone would buy a Borg ceasefire.
Except maybe the federation themselves.
@@fictiontheorizer1991 You got that from Deep Space Nine.
The Federation doesn't force you to become part of it. It offers you benefits and advantages to make you interested in joining such as their technology and knowledge such as replicators.
You don't like living in the Federation? You can actually leave.
The Klingons, Romulans, and Cardassians simply force you to join if you have something they want, and you end up a second class citizen on your own homeworld or worse, and they give you little to nothing in return unless you are willing to betray your own kind.
The Borg even go as far as complete erasing your personality and making your body an extension of itself.
The Ferengi would use trade to simply buy the very ground from under your feet and make you an indentured servant.
The Dominion? You are a solid and the Founders either want solids to be under their control or be contained on their own worlds or exterminated.
Seems to me that the Federation is the 'least evil' of these all.
If your world doesn't want to join they leave you alone.
@@TheDutchGhost You must have missed the part where I said "but seriously". Still if we are going to do this, might as well do it right.
Sure they are the least evil.
They are also wildly inconsistent, insisting on non interference, while poking their nose into literally every corner of the Galaxy.
They endanger countless people by way of exploration (their attracting the attention of the Borg being the most prominent example) but oftentimes specifically avoid lending aid to a species, even if it's a matter of life and death.
They are one of the most baffling, inconsistent, organizations to ever exist, and it never fails to confound me how people relentlessly overlook their issues.
DS9 is far from the only example of this.
In the long run I'd argue the Marqui aren't even the best examples of this themselves, merely the ones everyone thinks about.
But you don't need DS9 to tell me that the series messaging and morals are wildly inconsistent at best, and obnoxiously patronizing at worst.
I don't expect earth to be perfect in fiction.
But I get annoyed when people try to pretend that a heavily militarized nation that seeks control over it's neighbors and their resources through diplomacy is anything but that.
Saying that something is a Utopia does not make it so. If Star Trek demonstrably shows one thing, it's that Earth still isn't perfect.
@@fictiontheorizer1991 >You must have missed the part where I said "but seriously"
Must have read over that
>They are also wildly inconsistent, insisting on non interference, while poking their nose into literally every corner of the Galaxy.
True, but the Prime directive became almost a religion in the TNG while it was more of a guideline in the original series.
The goal was not so much as not being allowed to assist but more as a counter to then current US foreign politics of (and perhaps even now) of making other countries, especially those with resources or in a strategic position more sympathetic to the US, even if it meant replacing their governments.
At least in the Fed's case is more of good intentions even if they know that they should keep their noses out of it.
>They endanger countless people by way of exploration (their attracting the attention of the Borg being the most prominent example) but oftentimes specifically avoid lending aid to a species, even if it's a matter of life and death.
The Borg or any other potential conqueror with FTL would have been knocking on the Federation's door sooner or later anyway, and if it was not the Feds who caught the Borg's attention it could have been one of the other Alpha or Beta quadrant civilization.
Not like the Klingons or Romulans are stay-at-homes.
If people are that afraid for what potential threats are out there, they should stay in their own system and perhaps develop some kind of star system wide cloaking screen.
The advantages of exploration are greater than those of its disadvantages.
By knowing about the Borg the Federation could prepare for the coming of the Collective.
As for the second, again the Prime directive became a religion during TNG.
During the original series Starfleet and the Federation could listen to their conscience and help other cultures, including non warp ones as long as it did not make these cultures depended on the Federation's aid and make them fall under the Fed's influence, or disrupt their natural development.
The Fed's usually tried to stay out of the internal politics of other cultures, though in some cases if it actually directly threatened the Federation they would get involved.
Kirk's messing with cultures was usually to save his crew or his ship, but occasionally his influence was needed to change a situation that had become stagnant because the other parties involved no longer sought other solutions to their problems such as the two cultures engaged in the computer war.
But also a couple of times in which Kirk was asked to leave because some species really did not feel like interacting with the Federation and Kirk kept pressing on.
I don't disagree that the Feds can be hypocrites but they are still not conquerors.
>They are one of the most baffling, inconsistent, organizations to ever exist, and it never fails to confound me how people relentlessly overlook their issues.
Oh definitely and I blame that on the producers and the writers who really should have put some things 'in stone' when it was clear that Trek was really taking off.
Part of the problem also lays with Roddenberry himself who kind of started to drink his own cool-aid.
Previously Starfleet for example was structured along military navy, and the Federation though imperfect with its flaws meant well but was a bit more realistic.
Then suddenly Roddenberry insisted that it was an almost super UN like utopia in which people had no personal goals or drives that had nothing to do with enlightenment.
Give me a break. Picard could sometimes be so full of it.
>But you don't need DS9 to tell me that the series messaging and morals are wildly inconsistent at best, and obnoxiously patronizing at worst.
OH MOST DEFINITELY!
G-dammit, I had that during TNG and during DSN sometimes.
Yeah yeah, everyone being nice and peaceful is a good thing but do you people need to be so damn hippy dippy about it? (not you, the producers).
I fully understand Nog when he got annoyed by Jake's little speech about humanity focusing on improving themselves, and then coming to Nog to ask him to spend his money on something Jake wanted.
That is why I find is strange that the Federation did not have a standard trading unit in the 24th century even if most basics and essentials are freely available. There are always goods in limited quantities and you also need to be able to trade with outsiders if they have something you want.
It sometimes felt that the characters were kind of out of touch with reality and when mean old reality came knocking on the door about what life can be like that they were all surprised looking.
I also disliked the while "Technology is a bad thing" messaging Behr or someone else preached on DSN, that being a farmer is so much better than exploring space and see what is beyond the next star.
No one is forcing people in the Federation to use replicators or serve on starships.
You can settle on a colony and be a farmer.
You probably have some more examples I would definitely agree with.
>I don't expect earth to be perfect in fiction.
Me neither but it would be nice if we could have a world in which there is no longer need. That problems such as famine, disease, war, and especially corruption caused by greed and a lust for power have finally been resolved or at least to the point that it doesn't screw things up for must of us who just want to live our stupid little lives and are already dealing with personal issues that can keep us awake at night.
>But I get annoyed when people try to pretend that a heavily militarized nation that seeks control over it's neighbors and their resources through diplomacy is anything but that.
I understand you. Sorry, don't know what to say about this at the moment.
Having a lot of weapons or technological superiority seems to breed a certain arrogance in people.
This is so spot on. The people writing Star Trek now don't like or care about Star Trek. Even the old stuff just reminds me how the franchise went to hell in the last twelve years.
The Gentleman episode of Buffy is a really good example something amazing that stayed amazing because it was left at one showing.
Nerdrotic is correct. There are people hired to keep track of canon and i learned of this in my Doctor Who The David Tennant Era bluray box set in the credits of EVERY EPISODE.
As much as Doctor Who dipped in quality recently their continuity pretty good.
They will keep consistent with throw away lines from 60 years ago that barely anyone remembers.
@@ieuanhunt552 It's probably much easier to do, when you keep explaining away your established rules every time they are inconvenient.
Everything is much easier when everything can be rewritten on a whim.
Just look at Star Wars.
They've had continuity checkers almost as long as there's been cinema.
@@ieuanhunt552 especially in the era of Eccleston to Tenant era the continuity were well kept. I do like the Smith era but i do feel that era built rails to fly off of when in the previous they re-established and sometimes tweaked classic monsters or villians to breathe new but consistent life
Completely agree with ItsAgundam - JJ Trek was the worst thing ever to happen to Star Trek.
I so agree with Drinker here: the Borg were amazing! Because at their very core they were not evil, they were the intersection (heh!) of tyranny and democracy where both were maximized. And we just had to hate them, because they represent the scariest aspect of ourselves. But then they went the usual way with the queen and the peons and the gratuitous posturing and cruelty. There is a too deeply entrenched concept of aristocracy and feudalism in sci-fi. I loved the Borg because I was actually seduced a little by their promise. How would it be to live in total peace and harmony with your people by just renouncing your humanity and individuality? I mean, if the Ferengi were a parody of the Jews, Klingons were Viking, Romulans were the Chinese or the Russians and so on... the Borg were Swedish!
This is a problem with collectives in general I've noticed.
They introduce the idea of a "representative" and then suddenly the group needs a dictator.
I find it interesting, that even after all this time, the best collective storyline I've seen play out was Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2.
"...the Borg were Swedish!" They can't help it, they were Bjorn that way.
I'll see myself out.🥸
Ferengi are really parodies of 20th - and 21th - century _humans_ . They're a bit like the Mirror Universe Earth in that they show a path that mankind _could've_ taken if they succumbed to their darker instincts.
The Romulans were Romans....
@@NorthwindFusilier Plus Klingons was pretty much Soviet Russia to the NATO that is the Federation.
Then in TNG they were just Japanese biker gangs, more or less.
Drinkers comment at the end about how these modern shows can retroactively destroy your enjoyment of what came before them is spot on. I believe that this recent trend of reviving beloved movies and tv shows only to twist them into woke perverted mockeries of what they originally stood for, is intentional.
Classic movies and television shows endure because they capture the values and aspirations of the societies that produced them. They represent who our ancestors were, who we are, and which direction we should go.
The goal of these endless garbage reboots isn't to make money, it is to destroy the icons of a people and tear them away from their traditional heritage and heroes, and leave them drifting without a sense of what is right or wrong.
The woke believe if they can accomplish that, if they can reduce everyone else down to zero, then they believe everyone will be forced to embrace their insane ideology. The woke are insane, and they are trying to force us to be insane too.
That's because these stories and modern day fables and legends all tell moral lessons on how to be normal sane intelligent free thinking adult with a healthy dose of perspective and criticism. The cultist ideologues need to destroy that to turn the next generation into emotionally manipulatable idiots that follow orders and group think. Coincidently similar to borg drones.
Couldn't have said it any better myself.
It’s absolutely intentional. Liberals are insane.
SFDebris once pointed out that when Picard did the "oh what a wonder Man is" speech to Q as a whole thing about humanity's evolution... well it was the next episode Q introduced them to the Borg. And because of that, Picard eventually becomes the man in First Contact screaming "I will make them pay for what they've done!" (Rebutting his own words.)
So yeah, I like the idea of Q as the long game troll.
Enjoy the clips, unfortunately don’t have the time for whole episodes of much of anything. So thanks!
Same. I like the guys but I'm not been paid to listen to them chat for hours on end lol so these clips are great!
Same
The Okudas were a big part of the continuity of old trek being so solid. Both of them cared enough to make sure everyone else cared enough.
Star Trek TNG ENDED with 'All Good Things'! Even the TNG movies don't count as 'canon'. As far as I'm concerned That show STARTED & ENDED with the TV SHOW...
Lately I also feel more and more like that though I do really like the Sovereign class and the other ships introduced in First Contact.
YES, Brent Spiner is just DESPERATE for work, and the producers seem to think that since fans LOVED DATA that they'll want to see the actor keep playing more Soong...
But he IS GREAT at playing DATA, just because I can STILL believe him as that character when re-watcing old TNG episodes, even though I know that IRL he acts like a wannabe funny witty guy, when he's really just a bit of dick.
Look up his work on Night Court as a hillbilly. It was good enough they made him a recurring character along with his wife.
I did get to meet Spiner at a convention. I was surprised. He IS a dick.
@@dbsommers1 Yeah, I used to watch Night Court when it was ORIGINALLY on! He was good in that role too, but it was only like maybe 2 or 3 skits over the entire series?
RIP Harry & Markie!
Someone told me that they met Brent Spiner at a convention once and told him, "You haven't fooled me... all your roles are really Bob Wheeler from Night Court in disguise." Purportedly, he replied back, "You figured it all out! Tell no one!"
The thing that really gets me is that the rehashing isn't even fond, respectful rehashing. It's taking these stories we loved and spitting at them, inserting "the message" and a lot of swearing and calling it a day.
I loved Star Trek because it showed that humans could be more. It showed we could have a better future.
I didn't watch Star Trek to watch a character I really liked have his eyeball graphically ripped out.
Let’s be honest. Q lost all his intimidation factor when Sisko knocked him on his ass and Q’s only response he could muster was,
“You…you hit me! Picard never hit ME!”
Yeah. TNG Q would've seen it a mile away and did something. Like his usual teleport or switch places with someone so Sisko hits one of his crew hehe
The whole part about finding the microorganism on a moon around Jupiter.... The show basically implied that no one but the woman who is destined too will ever find it... Ever?
Q was trying to teach humanity that: “It’s a tough universe out there. People trying to do you, use you, rip you off.”
Like that was a lesson we'd somehow missed over the course of 10,000-odd years of human history. For crying out loud, every good parent knows there are lessons you just can't teach by example...
@@MrCenturion13 Sadly some people do in fact miss this lesson. Still, I'm not going to trust New Trek to do it well.
Honestly, the people who pull for stuff like this, are probably the most desperately in need of learning it.
Modern Star Trek writers: using and abusing the fans' trust and nostalgia against them.
Yeah, but never once did he bother to hand Picard a towel.
This show is everything that is wrong with New Trek. Seriously, 10 episodes of Star Trek and they're not in the Stars for 90% of the time and the Trek is a slog. They had so much of Picard's backstory to work with. I would have love to have seen the retired Picard pursuing his passion for archaeology, exploring new planets and cultures and discovering something that would impact the galaxy on a fundamental level and bring out conflicting sides who want to pursue truth and those that want to suppress it. Allies and enemies aligned with Picard from all sides. A proper Trek amongst the Stars for Picard.
Brandon Sanderson, my favorite writer, has someone just to check his continuity.
Writers, with enough funds, should have a 'continuity checker'.
I check out of Star Trek after 1 episode of one episode of Discovery. Been a Trekker all my life. Held my nose through the Jar Jar Abrams movies but couldn't do it any more.
The Abrams movies had a good cast. They got the vital trio of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy pretty much perfect - and that's a heck of a feat in itself. I accepted all 3 of them, and would've been happy to enjoy many years of adventures with that crew. It's just a shame that after pulling off a promising first movie they trashed it all with that Khan nonsense.
In Picard's latest season, Brent Spiner's character creates a forcefield to solve an ecological issue but it causes other problems. This element of the story was copied from Highlander 2, and both even take place in the year 2024.
Picard taking inspiration from Highlander 2 makes a lot of sense.
i'm just glad that DS9 handled Q the best way they could at the time.
Voyagers Q (plural) episodes (also sadly plural) were a blight on the mystery and capabilities of the beings/continuum from entities separated by time-sense, power and perspective to a low numbered bunch of infighting typical pantheon-figures who can power-up even a human to their own level and need the help of a lost and stressed out coffee addict driving home through the back alleys to make even the simplest of moral decisions.
I'm forever grateful that i watched voyager at the time but DS9 was the show I ended up watching chronologically. I can't go back to voyager way too many episodic resets and nonsense plots but I can watch entire arcs of DS9 over and over because you see the changes and feel the risks in this haphazard waystation on the edge of the newest and most volatile trade border that has ever existed in trek.
Yep, they just said We AINT doing Q, live with it!.
I wasn't a HUGE fan of DS9 when it originally aired, but I watched the series again a few years ago and found I had FAR more appreciation for it then I did 30 years ago.
@@StreetPreacherr agreed. Me too. _DS9_ was far more an adult series than any other spinoff.
_Voyager_ should have been a miniseries. Or perhaps even a side story in _DS9_ they'd occasionally visit. Voyager is for wine moms.
DS9 is arguably the best of that era of Star Trek's imho. Next Gen was fantastic for the first few seasons, but DS9 pioneered that chronological story telling within the franchise and they just nailed it. Avery Brooks was literally perfect.
Um... Almost literally the second episode ever with Q has him offering Q powers to Riker, yo. He tries to turn Westley into an adult and it doesn't take.
Drinker is correct: it's hard for me to watch the old Star Trek series such as Next Gen because in the back of my mind I know that, eventually, Picard is going to be what he has become in the Picard series, and that knowledge taints my viewing of Next Generation. I have to practically deny the existence of these new "woke" series... that, or just deny the validity of them as a continuation of the Next Gen universe.
That's why I don't bother watching anything I know is woke. Just don't give them the attention.
Don’t let them. Legacy Trek was remarkable TV. Just quit watching new Trek and get lost in good Trek. Forget about the new ones. They are Star Trek IN NAME ONLY.
I wouldn't blame the new series on woke. It's all down to poor writing.
After all Star Trek has been woke since as recently as about 1966. It's only been written by children quite recently.
I haven't watched any new Trek. I've seen clips, and made aware of what show runners are doing with legacy characters, but I've not sat down and watched any episode, start to finish. I think this has allowed me to maintain my notions of who these characters are, and I can go back to watch the older stuff without getting that feeling you speak of. Which I know well from Star Wars. Since TLJ I cant go back and watch true Star Wars. Maybe someday. I dont want to be reminded of it.
@@ieuanhunt552 Star Trek was never ‘woke’, it was socially progressive. It presented two sides and left the final assessment to the viewer without shoving their agenda down people’s throat. STD and PICARD are not progressive, they are preachy. I have no tolerance for such deliberate attempts at indoctrination and hatred.
I mean, Star Wars managed to get a whole movie out of one line of dialogue. There's definitely a lack of creativity across the whole industry.
I never liked Q despite John de Lancie's brilliant performance because I just have a problem with OP characters in general even back to TOS. When Sisko punched Q it was a message "Not in my show you don't" so I did enjoy that.
“It is never difficult to distinguish between a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.” - P G Wodehouse.
Watch "Tapestry" from TNG. That episode has the potential to literally change your life.
Now I challenge you to present an STD episode that's anywhere near that level of reflective and personally moving.
Tapestry is a good episode, but a bit too "aw, shucks" for me. Also didn't really like how Q basically fixed everything.
Still, it's MILES better than anything from Discovery or Picard.
@@Arassar Sure, perhaps. But the central message (to me anyway) not to waste the time you have, to be aware of how you are spending your life etc was literally life-changing.
Contrast that with STD which can't even rouse a smile from me.
At least Star Trek had a good run. TOS , TNG and DS9 were all great series and they all had satisfying conclusions, if you count the movies for TOS, of course.
Brent Spiner was amazing as Bob Wheeler in Night Court!
Current Star Trek is funny in how telling it is in terms of Looney Lefty ideology. The original series should be a gold mine to them, in how the setting is supposed to be a some utopia where people don't want for wealth and everyone has everything they need, a series that actually broke ground in terms of diversity and representation. Hope for a brighter future.
But instead of leaning on anything like that, they try and make things as dark, depressing and on the nose politically as they can. Yet another soapbox for them to screech THE MESSAGE and how everything they don't like is bad. With all the subtlety of Gallagher to a melon.
You got to appreciate the irony. Socialists deconstructing utopian fan fiction.
Still feel bad for the fans though.
New Trek can’t destroy the love for everything made prior to 2005. Someone on ST: Strange New Worlds seems to be trying (episodes 2 and 3 seemed like actual Trek). Discovery and Picard will go down as the worst Trek ever and will be forgotten in 10 years. The sad part is the actors themselves (particularly TNG) have only shown fans they are not of the moral caliber of the characters they portray. However, I still love their characters even if the current writers are morons.
They’re bringing back a descendent of Khan? I never knew Star Trek could be so Khan-descending
The Borg were destroyed in Voyager. They went from a race that could take out everything Starfleet could throw at them, to losing multiple cubes and spheres to one little Intrepid class exploration vessel.
I would say that that started after "Scorpion". During that double parter the Borg themselves were still very much a threat Voyager's crew sought to avoid.
The 'rot' as I like to call it started in "Dark Frontier" and then went on in the Borg Children arc, "Unimatrix Zero", and culminating in "Endgame".
@@TheDutchGhost I did like the situation they set up in Scorpion. They completely blew the opportunity to show that in the Borg's native space they were actually the small fries and surrounded by even more powerful and monstrous civilizations.
@@UndyingNephalim Why would the Borg be one of the lesser civilizations in the Delta Quadrant?
Q may have warned Picard that the Borg were just the first of many unforeseen/unimagined threats to come as Starfleet vessels entered unknown space, but that doesn't not necessarily mean many other civilizations more powerful than the Borg.
In the original series the threats were not always other civilizations. The Doomsday machine, the space amoeba, the parasites.
@@TheDutchGhost There doesn't have to be, I just think it would be a really interesting idea if the Delta Quadrant was full of many extremely ancient and powerful super civilizations and the Borg were just a minor power in comparison. They already had started to hint at things like that with the Voth, a civilization that was millions of years old who had ships that dwarfed Borg Cubes and the power to teleport entire ships.
@@UndyingNephalim True.
The writers never followed up on that warning of Q that I mentioned, or not to a big extend.
There is of course the Voth but they have no intention of waging war with the Federation.
I do think the Voth probably avoid the Borg Collective.
Then there is Species 8472, an extra-galactic species that threatens to wipe out all life in the milkyway galaxy to preserve their own purity, and probably to make sure that no one will ever threaten them again.
What I would liked to have seen though was threats that can not be easily defined by any known standards.
In my own fan fiction ideas I played with the idea of a group of anti Von Neumann machines which were programmed to seek out and stop any out of control self replicating technologies like nano swarms that threaten the galaxy.
But they also seek out civilizations that could possible create self replicating technology that they can not control and either inhibit these, reducing this civilization to a lower non threatening level, or exterminates them.
These anti Von Neumann machines were able to optimize and improve themselves.
Another species I played with was from the Star Trek DSN game The Fallen; The Grigari, cybernetic beings from the edge of the Beta Quadrant, where it borders on the Delta Quadrant.
They are a race of traders, mercenaries, pirates, and scavengers, offering advanced technology to anyone who can pay their price such as nano technology that can prolong beings' lifespan.
My idea for them was that the Grigari are actually using their business to spread their philosophy.
They believe that organic life has run its course and that the next step in development for organic life is to merge with machines, eventually become true machine life.
Unlike the Borg they are not a hive mind though they share a communication gestalt; the Grigari Meld.
What about that episode of TNG with the Parasites, that ended with them sending that signal. That was never touched on again, either.
I think Brent Spiner isn't a bad actor. He's just not good in serious/dramatic roles. Data was great because of his comedic timing. Go back to his days as a reoccurring character on Night Court before Star Trek and he was pretty funny there too. Any time he's been in a serious role, he's sucked. He also voiced the Joker in at least one DC animated movie or show, I forget which and he was terrible in that too. I know he likes being villainous characters like Lore, but he's just not that good at it.
Bob Wheeler on Night Court is the best Spiner role
I would say the same thing about the Daleks in Who
There's some idiotic stipulation in the rules and contracts of DW that the Daleks have to make an appearance each season. That's why season 5, Matt Smith's first, was the best cause it had a Dalek for like 5 minutes
@@chrisholdread174 They're probably trying to hold onto copyrights. It's dumb, but I understand it.
Helps that Matt Smith's Doctor was pretty based compared to David Tennant's whiny leftist Doctor in the latter seasons.
I am a lifetime Trek fan and agree with your opinions on newer Trek, but I will say I have been thoroughly enjoying Strange New Worlds. It is the best of the new shows in my opinion.
The Khan descendant is from one of the superhuman's many Khan-cubines.
Ya Boy Zack just released a video subtly chastising Star Trek fans for not being satisfied with Strange New Worlds. Like, after years of being forced to eat gruel off the floor while being hosed every morning, they stopped the hosing and switched the gruel to bread and water, and we're supposed to be _happy_ with that?
No. This studio cannot make good Star Trek. It is outside their capability, and they don't care.
When doesn’t Ya Boy Zack have a bad take on a film or tv show?
Just WAIT till they fill us in with more details about Darth Vader in the Obi-Wan show and completely RUIN that character...
Part of what makes The Orville so good is that Seth has been able to use the feel of the original Star Trek but can start from scratch and not have to try to work in a continuity that is screwed all the hell with some bad writing and excessive amounts of content. The world of Star Trek is so big that they could have had tons of shows that had that feeling and operated on different environments, but they keep going back to The Enterprise.
never allowed myself to watch anything beyond the original series(TNG & DS9) - sometimes you need to end on a high note and not let anything taint that memory
Indeed.
Orville has dealt with more Star Trek-y stuff in a more Star Trek-y way than anything in years.
If you're too lame to write for soap operas, then you go and write for modern sci-fi and superhero shows/movies.
"They can retroactively destroy your enjoyment of something." The way to overthrow a society is to destroy its heroes. That's the only sensible explanation for why untalented hacks are paid millions to turn historical shows and characters into wreckage.
On the plus side, I've only seen excerpts of these shows through people's reviews, so I've lost nothing of my love for the past sci-fi greats. Though I do think I have the answer that makes all of Picard made perfect sense: these are the mental ravings of a bedridden old man descending into the latter stages of dementia and surviving by creating bold new adventures to go on. And that is what viewers are watching: the reality disconnected mental final adventures of Picard.
One of the major problems that has happened with Star Trek is that they have forgotten what the original series truly was... it was a future space version of "The Twilight Zone". That is what made the original series so popular with its fan base, because almost every episode was an explanation of "what if" and the moral and ethical dilemmas that then had to be dealt with.
Star Trek TNG still knew this, and a major part of that was because Gene Roddenberry was apart of that shows development and filming until his death in 1991. However as more and more time has passed since his death the more that this has been forgotten those who control this property.
But that is a problem that Hollywood has had for decades and why we live in the current entertainment hell hole. They have little to no understanding what made the original things so beloved and good. They only see ways of profiting and pushing their ideas on these fan bases in the most blunt, ham fisted way. They are unwilling to risk and try something new and different from scratch. Instead they continue to basturdised something that is liked, loved and/or beloved simply because it has a built-in fan base already. If that fan base does not like it, too bad. Once that fan base stops showing up/ watching, then move on like locusts and try to devour the next fertile field.
You slay Borg Queen!
StarFemFleet.
Best of Both Worlds was the best the Borg ever got. After that it's a shit show.
Agreed. They ruined them with First Contact and VOY.
@@DeltaAssaultGaming First Contact was a good movie but a crap Star Trek movie. And it set up Enterprise. Oh dear.
Its why the Breen were so great, the mystery is what made them so dangerous and interesting
True.
The Breen are way too underated. They were the quintessential mystery aliens
they can try and retroactively destroy my love of REAL star trek. but that is a power they do not posses.
Benedict Cumberbatch should be on Dr. Who as the title character Dr. Who or as Dr. Strange
This is a brilliant idea … BC already has that “otherworldliness” to him that Doctor Who needs.
He turned it down years ago. The list of people who have turned it own is extensive, and each time they need a new Doctor, they list grows larger faster. Some people, such as Jack Davenport, have turned it down a couple of times. Over 30 people turned it down before they gave it to Shooty. 20+ people turned it down before Jodie got it. Chances are, anyone you can think of, who would actually make a good Doctor, has already turned it in the past. When they were hellbent on having a female Doctor, the list of great British actresses who turrned it down would shock a lot of people. Same with the list of black actors who turned it down before Shooty (yes, they had planned on the new Doctor being a black male a couple of year ago) was full of real talent. TBF though, Tilda Swinton... and some others... turned it down because the money wasn't good enough. Jodie got it because she said yes AND she was the cheapest. They hired a Doctor the way the government hires contractors lol
Side-note : Benedict's mum was on Doctor Who three times. Once in the 60s, once in the 70s, and once in the 80s.
I was laughing when I saw Raffi cracking Dr Soong's drones using a Korg nanoKONTROL (used for audio mixing). That's literally a B-movie cheap BS.
😎🥃 good morning everyone
Good afternoon
Alex Kurtzman has shit in all our beds and soiled our Star Trek sheets!
Alex Kurtzman is like the ''Anti-King Midas", everything he touches turns into shite instead of gold.
They had ALREADY ruined the Borg in FIRST CONTACT by giving them a QUEEN...
I don't know if it's so much a factor of mining the old ideas for one more buck as it is the current "creative" teams are creatively bankrupt and the only thing they can do is copy and modify ideas from the past. The Original Series and even some of TNG had actual SF writers behind some of the best episodes. The writers at Bad Reboot and Secret Hideout are would-be political thriller or soap opera writers who can't be bothered to do basic research before spewing their crap.
RLM's coverage of Piccard would be hilarious if not for having to witness Mike's love for Star Trek wither and die.
Retroactive destruction indeed:
-I'm done with Star Wars - I don't rematch the OT any more despite having been a fan of the films (only) since '77.
-I'm done with 007 - good or bad the last film killed Bond off and so he's been 'Black Widowed' out of existence.
...Once seen, a thing can't be unseen.
-I can still watch old Star Trek having never seen anything newer than Jar-Jar's piss-poor rehashes.
-At least I am done with Marvel because End Game was a fitting finale for me, and I'll not support Disney.
-Tolkien is safe for me as a certain upcoming series has nothing to do with his work and I'll not be watching.
Oh, and Dr Who... what can I say...? By far the most egregious ongoing destruction. The BBC needs to be gone!
I will try to help out everybody to what is Star Trek about. Star Trek is between 1966-1994
The Star Trek series:
Star Trek
Star Trek the Animated Series
Star Trek the Next Generation
The first 6 Star Trek movies:
Star Trek the motion picture
Star Trek 2 Wrath of Khan
Star Trek 3 The Search for Spock
Star Trek 4 the Voyage Home
Star Trek 5 the final frontier
Star Trek 6 the Undiscovered Country
11:44
I knew it! I knew it... There is no way you make something like NuTrek: Peecard and then turn around and suddenly make something on par with TNG or TOS.
I bet it's got all the same problems. Continuity errors, modern-ish dialogue, swearing, disrespect for chain of command, quirky one-liners, hand-wave logic, fake emotions, pointless drama and moral bankruptcy reliant on selective empathy.
this is what you got for catering to the below 10% audience.
and the last thing we want to see is our childhood heroes be downgraded, stripped of power, killed off or humiliated like a piece of human garbage.
i'm looking at you bat woman, sHe-Man, Hulk, Terminator, Predator, Aliens, Star Wars ect ect ect
It's easy to understand how a lot of newer stuff taints your enjoyment of the older material, because in your head there's always going to be that voice going, "Yeah, too bad _this_ is gonna happen to you a few years down the line..."
Like, I reread the Phoenix Saga from X-Men a while back, especially the parts where Scott and Jean are talking about the future they know they'll never have because Jean's resolved to die, but in my head I couldn't help remembering the comics where Scott starts seeing Emma Frost, and then it's claimed that Scott and Jean never matured past a 'teenage crush' mindset relationship-wise and Jean's ONE TRUE LOVE was Wolverine...
Or watching something like the Justice League Unlimited cartoon and rooting for Batman and Wonder Woman and their cute little... whatever they had, but then you're aware that by the time of Batman Beyond she gave up on Bruce ever actually returning her feelings and so freaking moved to the Justice Lord universe to be with _that_ Batman instead.
Ah, and related to that, good luck watching the classic Batman: The Animated Series two-parted Robin's Reckoning (especially that bit at the end where Batman admits the reason he didn't want Robin involved was because he was _scared_ Robin might die in his quest for revenge on Tony Zucco)... without thinking about how by the time of Batman Beyond Dick Grayson _hates_ Bruce Wayne completely and utterly, to the point that when in a comic Bruce tried to reconcile via Terry's headset, Dick left before he even got "Listen, Dick... I know... I know that..." out.
Look, Q came to DS9 and Sisco let him know he has no time to games, BEFORE A SINGLE PUNCH WAS THROWN!
And guess what, he never came back.
The Borg were an inexorable, alien, uncompromising threat whose manner of being is existentially terrifying to us. They were in many respects a sci-fi Lovecraftian menace, and as Lovecraft observed, the unknown is far more terrifying than the known.
When you over-explore an antagonist, you pull its teeth as a threat because you are making it a known quantity, and that's just what they've been doing all these years since "First Contact" and "Voyager". Thus, the Borg are no longer terrifying.
The problem with Star Trek now vs Star Trek then, is that TNG was a little goofy, Naval space exploration show with some big stakes baddies, or a complication to resolve between two groups.
Now its become rehashing all the old stories without ever adding new ingredients.
I was honestly never a fan of TNG.
Picard just felt woefully out of touch with his crew, and there were times I wondered how he maintained his command (apart from the sheer luck of always being right).
The ideology of the humanist utopia always rubbed me the wrong way too, for a variety of reasons.
I prefer almost any of the other seasons for being less pretentious.
Picard however, is just boring and miserable.
What little balance there was in the other Trek shows is almost completely inverted.
There are no real stakes or likable characters. Everyone is just a miserable asshole with no more reason to hide it.
I'd almost take Stargate Destiny over this. At least it didn't focus on butchering older characters like the newer shows.
Patrick Stewart obviously has disdain for his character because he has allowed it to be totally humiliated and etc. Yes! It has tainted my viewing of TNG. Thankfully, I can still watch TOS without bias. ☺️
I tried watching the new show “Strange New Worlds”….I couldn’t get through 15 minutes of it. The characters were bland and boring and interchangeable. Just awful.
Speaking of the Borg, I’d argue that that concept jumped the shark around The Best Of Both Worlds. In Q Who, they were introduced as mechanical organism bent on acquiring technology to add to their own and lifeforms were an afterthought because they had their own nurseries to grow more drones. Any biological material was probably added to prevent any kind of degradation from using the same DNA over and over again. The upside of raising their own drones as opposed to assimilation is that a homegrown drone is a blank slate devoid of that pesky sentience and free will. You’ve seen the end result of having drones with previous memories and experiences. The moment they said “they’ve started abducting people” in TBOBW was the beginning of the end. The writers, bless them, had no way of writing the Borg without taking away some of the things that made them pants darkening frightening. They could have looked at B5’s the Shadows as a good example. The only representative they had was Mr Morden and he wasn’t a mustache twirling space villain like the Queen was. I still imagine that some amazing writer could have done stories about them and kept what they were about intact. No abductions, no supervillain Queen, just this force of nature that does what it does and the Alpha Quadrant inhabitants could only slow it down, but not stop it.
When Discovery was announced they said they wouldn't go anywhere near TOS characters, but those creatively bankrupt assholes went one season, screwed up so bad and had to reply on the work of others. Now we've 2 seperate fucking series butchering them, bad reboot are unimaginative, talentless hacks that cant finish one coherent thought. I knew in 2008 that was it, trek is done forever, its a pity cause fan projects like Axanar are a million times better, show it can be done well, without a massive budget and without needing to go near legacy characters. I hope whatever amazon do with stargate, they dont fuck up like trek.
One of the appeals of Star Trek for me was the attention to detail about accurate science even if not yet reality.
The concept of warp travel and antimatter as a means of propulsion was based on real theories that today are being proven likely and may soon be discovered for real.
I once saw a huge coffee table book of the schematics for the entire Enterprise-D Inch for inch. Every door, every light switch, every foot of bulkhead accounted for.
I've worked on ships all of my adult life and have seen real ship schematics and am constantly blown away at how real the Enterprise was to Gene Roddenberry.
He was inspired by real science and turned around to inspire the next generation of inventors.
None of what we have in today's Star Trek will inspire anyone to do anything but save their subscription money.
I was young when The Next Generation was new.
I used to hate Q for exposing humans to the Borg until I grew up a bit and understood that he actually was giving humans a head start to prep and properly make a stand against them, which was inevitable, whether they were ready or not.
The depth of the writing of a villain is what truly makes a story for me. When you can empathize with the villain, no matter how despicable, you have a good story.
You see that Q actually loves humans and their qualities, is even a bit jealous and wishes to be like them, but is so spoilt and lost that he doesn't know how to relate in a way that doesn't annoy and disrupt them.
In the end, he comes to be more of a Guardian Angel than a true villain, and this is just one of the many examples of stellar writing that has completely gone by the wayside in this generation of Star Trek.
one of the reasons the anne mccaffrey series are some of my favourite is specifically because she knows when a story is done.
a person will get their ark, development, payoff and even sometimes an epilogue and then the camera will shift elsewhere wither in time or place so something previously unseen or maybe not even referenced gets their time in the spotlight, and so on it goes until you have a history built up branch by branch, book by book carrying a story through until it's a full-grown experience. There it stands on it's own merits without need for constant callbacks or references in other times/places/settings.
it's something a TV show and franchise specially should excel at but time and again we see these shows treading, re-treading and modifying their foundational concepts until there's nothing left but bloodstains and a reek of decay.
this is more-so true of comics, it's why I stopped reading western releases.
I got sick of the reboots tearing away far more character than they ever replaced)
The Borg have been effectively neutered since 1996. I like First Contact, but it could've been akin to a zombie horror film if we were given the Borg as they were originally presented.