They're whole argument is "why should we have to adhere to canon?" If they weren't gonna follow what came before... then why even call it star wars? Why not make it it's own property? Answer: nobody would watch it
I hate this argument about a lot of starships is better than the death star... Russia as a 4k load of machineries (and soldiers) and look at how much trouble they are having with ukraine, america has a 4k load of machinery and yet they struggle with Vietnam and goat farmers in ghe middle east... If they had only those, do you think people would be scared of them... What scares them??? The nukes they never use... It literally ended world war 2 for jpn, not a whole lot of machineries... The loud majority of star wars fans have no ability to apply logic, they try, god bless their heart they try, but they fail so woefully... ICBMs are making troops and carriers obsolete and we have star wars fans saying it smarter to build more carriers than ICBM because a blue dude said in other to sound smart in the books (i love admiral thrawn but that was a shit argument)...
Canon has become this weird little word ppl use which is easier to demonise and dismiss, instead of using the word canon is just a synonym for... The story. Canon is the story that was told. If something contradicts the previously told story but is meant to be part of that same story then they fucked up. Simple.
@@johnnycrown5097 the US had struggles with vietnam and goat farmers primarily from politicians tying up the hands of the people on the ground more than anything.
@donovandelozier7156 if you think politicians leaving the soldiers to have free reign means they would have won any of the two quite easily, you're joking... But do you know what makes you win easily??? Not troops or machineries, but nukes... Ask jpn... The empire sending in troops and materiel into the planet rather nuking it from orbit is more costly... They can have surface go orbit missile to repel an orbital bombardment from starships... Rebels can choose to fight against troops for their family but when they realize that their entire planet can be erased even if they leave it to go fight for the rebels, you start to ask yourself what's the point of fighting... There's not even a single argument here... I see that thrawn idea everywhere and it just pisses me off because not a single thought was put into it... Btw, I'm not talking about the politics of the Vietnam war and the goat farmers (I'm using goat farmers because yt is hot on my comments), I actually agree with you on that... I'm talking about the difficulty of the Vietnam terrain and the mole strategy of the goat farmers... You see why nukes beat plenty troops and materiel???
Fun fact: It was only critics who disliked Star Wars when it first came out, not the average movie-goers like Patrick likes to imply. The critics of the OT’s time felt Star Wars was too schlocky, not “high art”, and wanted Hollywood to avoid making more movies like it. It was so prevalent in the film critic circle that Siskel and Ebert had a whole special dedicated to defending the trilogy from their peers. So basically, critics have always wrong, and Patrick is trying to gaslight us into believing the critics opinions back then were general audience opinions.
There is this trend throughout the world and throughout history where those who speak to the people try to act like they are somehow those who speak for the people.
43:21 Ah yes, the “diversity” that was so badly mismanaged that John Boyega himself called out Lucasfilm for using him as an advertised token and then giving everybody except HIM a character arc. Of course THAT diversity.
Patrick Willems is the kind of person who writes stuff like, "Why your bacon and cheese sandwich doesn't have to taste like a bacon and cheese sandwich."
22:00 She explicitly states in her transmission, “Years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars.” This Patrick guy does not know what he is talking about.
I'll always wonder how people could look at the Sequel Trilogy and miss how badly it damaged the franchise. It used to print money, now most people are only interested in how badly they will fumble the next project.
I hate this argument about a lot of starships is better than the death star... Russia as a 4k load of machineries (and soldiers) and look at how much trouble they are having with ukraine, america has a 4k load of machinery and yet they struggle with Vietnam and goat farmers in ghe middle east... If they had only those, do you think people would be scared of them... What scares them??? The nukes they never use... It literally ended world war 2 for jpn, not a whole lot of machineries... The loud majority of star wars fans have no ability to apply logic, they try, god bless their heart they try, but they fail so woefully... ICBMs are making troops and carriers obsolete and we have star wars fans saying it smarter to build more carriers than ICBM because a blue dude said in other to sound smart in the books (i love admiral thrawn but that was a shit argument)...
Death Star isn't really better than having a well-armed and more mobile navy. It can't be everywhere at once, is slower, costs way more than ships it's replacing and having a weapon that can destroy a planet is just wasteful due to resources you lose by doing so.
A lot of people like to point out "B-b-b-but they made a bazillion dollars at the box office!" but so did shit from dead franchises like Aquaman. The biggest victory a franchise can have isn't just monetary short-term gain, but cultural relevance and staying power. Star Wars wasn't as huge as it was because the OT performed really well in theaters, it became a cultural phenomenon because people kept coming back and injecting new life and love into it DECADES later. Entire generations of people have grown up with Star Wars. (It's also pretty telling that despite making two billion-dollar movies Disney only broke even in their star wars buyout like 2 years ago. lmao)
23:01 I flipped out on this part. Okay, so yes, there *is* a subversion of expectation with Yoda. At first, nobody knows that the silly muppet creature is Yoda. Everyone comes in with preconceived notions of what the great master Yoda must look like, only for Yoda to reveal that he, the little muppets creature, IS in fact master Yoda himself. BUT IMPORTANTLY, HE DOES NOT REMAIN SILLY! Yoda’s attitude and demeanor immediately flips from silly comic relief to a stern and wise sage. His attitude FITS with what can be reasonably expected of a Jedi master, we just weren’t expecting an alien muppet to play the role. In the last Jedi, I remember seeing Luke’s flippant attitude with throwing the lightsaber and at first thinking he was mirroring what Master Yoda did with him to teach Rey patience. It would have made sense given what we know of his character and history. But then it’s revealed that NOPE he actually IS a wet sock, and we’re left to wonder WHY?!?! And the explanation we are given does NOT make sense!
That is a great point. Honestly it just makes me yearn for a what-if TLG where Luke is presenting himself to Rey as an annoying old douchbag with no hope for the Jedi as a way to test Rey's determination. Most would probably look at Luke acting like this and think "wow, this guy is the key to saving the universe? what a joke, I guess the Jedi really are screwd, I'm out of here" but Rey could show a bit of personality for a change and remain determined and hopeful that this guy could help. And once Rey proves that she will never give up hope on Luke, and the Jedi as a whole for that matter, THEN Luke would be like "yup, that's the one" and reveal that he was just testing her determination and patience and agree to train her and save the Jedi. God, I'm not even a Star Wars fan, I never cared about it until TLJ provoked a war and raised serious questions about storytelling as a whole. But as I watch more and more these videos explaining the abhorrent treatment these characters went though, I can't help but be pissed off too. What a waste...
Imagine a world where Luke did all that and tried to send her away as a test. "Why are you here, Rey from nowhere? No, why are YOU here? Who are you?" Let a frustrated Rey touch the dark side. A force storm, maybe, with Luke and his surroundings entirely untouched. "Is that what you want, Rey from nowhere? The power to destroy everything you see?"
That's exactly what I thought was going on too. I was so excited when I saw Luke through that lightsaber over his shoulder because I was like, "oh shit, he's pulling a Yoda!" And I thought about how fun it was going to be now that we the audience who had seen this before were in on the joke and got to watch Ray's reaction it would be such a change-up and, dare I say, a great way to subvert our expectations because we're now seeing similar events through a different lens and it helps recontextualize it for us and that's fun! But no. What we got was a steaming pile of bullshit.
I still can't get over how Luke is given his old lightsaber that he hasn't seen in over thirty years, which he must have written off as gone forever, since it was dropped into a gas giant along with his severed hand. But nope - no reaction. He isn't at all curious how this weapon was retrieved and brought back to him!?
I've always found it weird when people defended the sequels by shitting on the original and it always left me with the question: "If you hate the OT so much, how did you become a Star Wars fan?
Given the convoluted manner in which they defend the Sequels, I doubt they actually like them either. More likely, there's some autistic identity thing calling them to defend it. Grifting is also always possible.
They cannot actually defend the sequels and they know it, so they have to resort to shitting on the original because, in their minds, this brings the sequels up to the level of the OT.
I mean.. Put yourself in the ugly shoes.. Put African art next to European art.. You can kinda understand why some people get mad and want to tear others down..
I hate this argument about a lot of starships is better than the death star... Russia as a 4k load of machineries (and soldiers) and look at how much trouble they are having with ukraine, america has a 4k load of machinery and yet they struggle with Vietnam and goat farmers in ghe middle east... If they had only those, do you think people would be scared of them... What scares them??? The nukes they never use... It literally ended world war 2 for jpn, not a whole lot of machineries... The loud majority of star wars fans have no ability to apply logic, they try, god bless their heart they try, but they fail so woefully... ICBMs are making troops and carriers obsolete and we have star wars fans saying it smarter to build more carriers than ICBM because a blue dude said in other to sound smart in the books (i love admiral thrawn but that was a shit argument)...
Especially when by the end of the third film for Luke, he still wasn't as powerful as Rey yet had more training. He was going to be killed by Palpatine. Even Vader was still powerful. But Adam Driver gets pwned every film, sometimes multiple times.
Rey's training: cutting a rock in tlj, in tfa she uses the force just because she knew it was a thing a few minutes before. Also in tros she did the training and not failing once Luke's training: using lightsaber while "blindfolded", staying up with one arm with Yoda on him (failed), trying to raise one big rock with the force (failed), fighting his inner demons in the forest Pretty sure I am forgetting something about Luke's training, but to put it simple by seeing Luke's struggle we feel more involved and wants to see him succeeding. Rey is already perfect so we feel nothing at her victories because we already know she's gonna win easly. Sure, we already know that Luke is gonna win because he's the hero of the story, but the reason why it's different from Rey is that by knowing Luke's limits it adds stakes and many possibilities for how he's gonna gain his victory
Saying “go back to when you were a kid and give your past self the sequel trilogy” is the worst argument ever. Like he’s insinuating that because children are naive and stupid they would like the sequels. That’s literally stating that you need to be dumb to like them. Also, I was 9 when TFA came out. I still thought it was bad.
If we got sequels first original later we would all agree that Disney can really use well that IP. It would be like the original "the thing" vs Carpenter's "the thing"
When I was a kid, I read the Thrawn trilogy. I then consumed everything I could up through the New Jedi Order. Young me would have been less kind to the sequels than present me.
"If you watched the sequel trilogy as a kid, you would love it and be defending it today." Yeah, that's why Garfield 2004 is such a beloved film that everyone talks about. No one ever enjoyed a movie as a kid and then disliked it as an adult. ಠ_ಠ
Armageddon came out when I was a teenager and I loved it back then. As I matured and developed a more sophisticated understanding of storytelling, I came to realize the movie is complete garbage.
@@GothWolfRants I still think it's fun, but in a very early Michael Bay kind of way. It's just dumb action; not atrocious, but nothing super special. But yeah, there are good reasons why we still like certain movies as adults. If it were just nostalgia, then we would be praising every older movie.
I really really hate the argument "The OG trilogy was always bad." It just falls flat because the other person is usually just trying to shut down discussions because they lost the argument. What's so sad is their final defense of the sequels is that Star Wars was always "bad or goofy," which is strange because they never can defend the sequels. There's also a cycle of repeating arguments then going back to the "Always bad" argument like it's iron clad. It's infuriating!
Especially when they're not that bad. I watched some of it recently and the part that stood out to me as dumb is when the stormtroopers repeatedly miss the good guys... which is intentional. There was no point where someone carved a knife in the shape of a wreckage and hid it it as a secret map.
If it's a coincidence the best stuff came out when we were younger and more impressionable, why isn't this new DisneyWars garbage being avidly enjoyed/defended by children instead of just goonish, jelly-spined adults? And if the original stuff was just liked by kids, why was it clearly enjoyed by people who were adults at that point? This rabies-infected line of logic needs put down for good.
I hate this argument about a lot of starships is better than the death star... Russia as a 4k load of machineries (and soldiers) and look at how much trouble they are having with ukraine, america has a 4k load of machinery and yet they struggle with Vietnam and goat farmers in ghe middle east... If they had only those, do you think people would be scared of them... What scares them??? The nukes they never use... It literally ended world war 2 for jpn, not a whole lot of machineries... The loud majority of star wars fans have no ability to apply logic, they try, god bless their heart they try, but they fail so woefully... ICBMs are making troops and carriers obsolete and we have star wars fans saying it smarter to build more carriers than ICBM because a blue dude said in other to sound smart in the books (i love admiral thrawn but that was a shit argument)...
I'm sick of people twisting the argument of Rey's powers into "She gained powers off-screen, that's rubbish", because that's not the argument. The actual argument is that there's no clear timeline, and she received barely any training from Luke, yet she's able to lift several tonnes of boulders with no effort in the beginning of Rise Of Skywalker. Luke having to strain himself to pull his lightsaber to him in the beginning of Empire is in line with what we saw him learn in A New Hope, and what would be a reasonable power progression between movies. Fuck's sake, why does every defense of the sequel trilogy have to rely on bad faith arguments?!
It's even worse than that. We have a timeline of events, because the chase sequence is very linear. Snoke came for Leia fast enough that they had no time to flee after Starkiller base. The slow speed chase can't have taken more than a day or three, based on the events we saw. And Rey had barely learned the Force existed before Starkiller. So she's had no more than a week to master the Force to that level. EDIT: and we know how fast they can clear camp from Episode V. From detection to evacuation was on the order of hours. We even see the ground forces scrambling to set up defenses as the Imps arrive.
@@robertbeisert3315It’s so fucking dumb, I swear to god. And yet Sequel fanboys will wave away these complaints and simply spout straw man’s until they pass out.
"Tch... You people wanted... ugh... *gratification* spending money for a movie you've waited several long years for instead of... you know, SUBVERSIVE THEMATIC *ART* !?"
I hate the argument that we only like older things because we were ‘young and impressionable.’ And the only reason we still like them is because of nostalgia, not because they’re actually well made. I can’t speak for Star Wars, I did see all the movies for the first time when I was young, but I can speak to Elder Scrolls. I didn’t play Morrowind until 2022, I was 21 years old, and it is my favorite game of all time, by a landslide. Bethesda shills constantly tell me I’m blinded by rose tinted glasses when I never even played the game as a kid. It’s just objectively better than the slop they’ve put out for the past 15+ years.
It works in both ways. I thought part of growing up is realising how dumb you were when you were young and reviewing your opinions. Yes. children like a lot of bad things, but once you spend a decade or two weeding out the bad you end up with the good things that had a strong influence on you.
I can speak for starwars. Before this year the only starwars content I saw were the last jedi, and a little bit of both the clone wars and rebels cartoons on Disney XD even then I barely remember any of these. It's only till this year in 2024 as a 20 year old where I really became a fan, which all began when a vid of the lost cut appeared in my TH-cam feed one day. After that more and more starwars vids appeared. But it wasn't till I saw a clip of episode 4 upscaled that I had the desire to see the movies for myself. After which I quickly bought myself a DVD copy of Empire strikes back, played it on my ps4 with my brother, and we were blown away. I didn't expect it to be this good, and so well paced that I forget that I'm watching 2 hour long movie. The moment luke was using the force to telekeneticlly pull his Saber to him was one of the few times where I vocally cheered for the hero in a movie. And it was finally cool to see all these beloved characters like Han, chewing and Leia in action. And despite long being spoiled the twist by the internet, it still shocked us when we finally saw it. I didn't even know it happened in episode 5 And after that the rest was history We saw every original and prequel movie on disney+ and even got to see episode 1 come back to theaters on May the 4th. Our order was: -Empire strikes back -A new hope -The phantom menance -Return of the jedi -Attack of the clones -Revenge of the sith My favorite being revenge of the sith, loved every bit of it, especially the duel at the end with battle of the heroes playing. To put it simply, I love starwars, even if I didnt exist yet to see the originals or old enough see the prequels. I still enjoyed these movies for what they are now as a young adult. and believe alot of them still hold merit to this day. -oh and about the sequels, I hadn't seen them all yet. I might update this comment when I do. (This is mostly just me ranting how much I love starwars)
It also assumes that people can't look critically at things from their childhoods at all. Mate, there's so much stuff I loved as a kid that simply does not hold up anymore. Star Wars is not one of those things.
@@TheKiltedGerman very true, I also should’ve added that. I liked the CW superhero shows for a while because I was 13 when the Flash started. Got hooked on the 1 actual season that was good and stuck with all the shows for way too long after that 😂 and I can definitely go back now and see how garbage all of them were, but I enjoyed them at the time because my standards _were_ simply much lower. So there is _some_ merit to the argument that our standards are lower when we’re younger, but you’re exactly right, it assumes we don’t have the ability to think critically as adults.
Oh as someone born in 1979 and who first saw the OT as a young child I’ll admit I have a ton of nostalgia for the films. However as an adult I can say they are well written with good characters and engaging, if simple, storylines. And when you think of the technical accomplishments of the VFX it’s mind blowing. My wife who never saw any Star Wars thinks the OT looks the best and is blown away that they were made in the late 70s-early 80s and with models. In my opinion the OT VFX hold up against any modern CGI.
“ couldn’t they just rebuild the death star without the weakness?” LOL I love how this implies that the engineers behind the death star literally built in a weakness to it. It’s not like it’s a ventilation shaft, and therefore a necessary part of the mechanics that just happens to be a weak point. No, no, it’s a weakness. That’s like someone stuffing gasoline soaked cloth into your gas tank and setting it on fire and someone being like why would you build a car with that kind of weakness? lmao
@@rasendori20 yeah so technically the weakness was intentionally implemented but the rest of the empire doesn't know that so this guy's point still kinda works? Like they all had the idea that it was impenetrable but the ventilation shaft that Madds Mikkelson put into it was intentionally made to be a major flaw cuz he secretly hated the empire
@rasendori20 it was a bad idea then, too. The port was set up as a nearly impossible target found as the only exploitable weakness after careful analysis in the first film. The Empire, itself, found the vulnerability the Rebels were targeting and sent fighters to intercept. The rewrite undermines all of that. "Here's a map to the super exploitable weakness I put in for no reason. Lucky the Empire's incompetent."
A small correction about something everyone gets wrong: Luke was not guiding the torpedoes with the Force. The torpedoes where following a preprogrammed course. Luke was using the Force to fire the torpedoes at the right moment and and the right angle, which is something the targeting computer was supposed to do. Using the Force to aim better than a computer is similar to what Luke and Obi Wan practiced when travelling on the Falcon.
A boy happens upon a fence. There is a man standing by it, painting where the wood is showing and repairing damages, being careful and showing care and patience in his practice. The boy asks why the man is so careful about the fence, and what is on the other side. The man states that they could go there but it would chaos, and that if the boy chooses to go there he may so long as the fence itself is kept intact. The boy declares that any fence is a restriction on creativity and freedom to move through the meadow as he pleases. The boy breaks the fence and walks over to the other side. This is modern media, post modern thought, modern art, etc. in its most simple form. Not a healthy, respectful evolution and preservation of what was, but a needless destruction and revolution and subversion because the new must always be better than the old, a senseless change made without reasoning. Wilhem uses large words and fancy arguments to justify this very same thought process. Stories are not simply self insertion tales for for one’s own whimsy, especially when they have history and care and so many people who listen to and share those stories. There must be integrity and stability.
Exactly. If you're going to build your story off of someone else's work. You need to have respect for that work. It's not just a label you can slap onto whatever story you want for the brand recognition.
@@berndberndsen5680 smart man, I was referencing him. I grew up with my father giving a slightly different tale about a tree but the principle stands!!
What dimwits like Pat don't understand, it's that in the long run franchises survive on the shoulders of the people who care about "trivia". Normies like me (as far as SW goes) bring the movies into the billions, but core fans keep the lights on during hard times and buy all the stuff (merchandise and all) that people like me don't. There is a reason fund campaigns for SW are failing: they lost the guys who "care about trivia". Who else is gonna spend 200+ for a damn lightsaber? Also, I don't have that baggage of lore that others have, and still the sequels make no sense...
eh. TH-camrs never had an IQ requirement. A lot of the time it's the opposite. Rather he's an insult and an embarassment to anyone who claims to care about media or stories.
"And why was Obi-Wan Kenobi the Rebellion's only hope? Leia had never even met him" This is kind-of incredible. #1) The dialogue strongly suggests they know each other #2) Is he really their only hope, or is Leia appealing to Obi-Wan's heroism? Willems is either very, very dumb or he's strawmanning strawmen
Not only that, but the she straight up TELLS why she putting her hope in him , because he 'fought with her father in the Clone Wars' and because he was great Jedi. Also the context of the message is that she recorded it while her ship was being boarded by Darth Vader right above the planet she knew Obi Wan( likely the only nearby ally they might have considerig the movie starts with them being hotly pursued), a planet BTW we are shown is otherwise occupied by the criminal & the desperate. She might even know that Obi Wan was Vaders old master(ObiWan was quick enough to tell Luke that, Bail might have told Leia something similar, even in the context of the original script absent taking the prequels into account, its a reasonable assumption given what we are shown about the rest of her knowledge of ObiWan). She doesnt necessarily have to have ever met ObiWan personally, just knew him by reputation, which is desperate straights would be enough.
Idk what strawman is even supposed to mirror. I don't think anyone has a problem that the rebels are looking for Luke in TFA? Have people made that criticism?
I remember the days of Patrick H Willems on EFAP and how he near single-handedly helped put EFAP on the map early on with his hilariously pretentious hot takes on Star Wars including the creation of the "old bad, new good" cop out featured here that many YT essayists use even today to defend horrifically bad new entries in long running franchises.
"I'd like the new part of the story to line up and make sense when taken alongside the established part of the story because that's how a good story usually works and I like good stories." Dogmatic lunacy. LUNACY.
the plot holes video has stayed rent free in my head for years. I'm not even joking. It haunts me that someone threw that shit at on twitter and I was like, "oh no. It's brain dead"
Not at all? Any of the people I'd call a dork are passionate about the things and media they care about, they wouldn't want it being shit all over then defend it like this
21:24 "Why was Obi-wan the rebellions only hope when Leia hadn't ever met him?" Obi-wan Kenobi comes out. I love it when Disney contradicts their own die hard fan base lol.
also an interesting question. If I'm being attacked by enemies, why would I go look for a military general renowned for their combat prowess? It's not like that would help me in staging a rebellion... oh wait.
"Fans don't like Disney Star Wars because--" Because of all the reasons they've specified over the last ten years, not this guy's tired-ass interpretation.
It's not a checklist we have, it's a bingo card, open to many possibilities. Mainly, we just wanted to see the OT characters honored and somewhat happy at the end, joined by some likeable new allies. Making Luke a galactic drunk homeless dude and killing them all off in ludicrous ways was not anywhere on that card.
Even if you ignore how intentionally vague he's being in comparing the OT to the sequel trilogy, two movies having similar plot points doesn't make them the same quality, or even the same experience. Psycho (1998) isn't the same as Psycho (1960), despite being a shot-for-shot remake. Insidious is basically the same plot as Poltergeist, but they aren't the same experience.
The argument I found most compelling that runs counter to the idea of building more Star Destroyers over another Death Star is that weapon is the reason the Senate was dissolved in A New Hope; It has meaning outside of its function to kill planets. The Empire in between the events of Episode 5 and 6 have the upper hand on the Rebels so they could very well believe they stand to gain more from rebuilding their deterrent rather than bolstering their military might. Perfectly willing to hear alternatives to what makes the most sense for the Empire to do in that scenario but that’s the argument which makes the most sense to me at current.
All Disney had to do to make the first movie work was to match up the beginning of "The Force Awakens" with the end of 'Return of the Jedi." That's it. Build upon THAT movie. Instead, we get "The First Order has risen from the ashes of the Empire" in the first 5 seconds of the opening crawl. We're only 10 seconds into the movie and already we're wondering how any of this is possible.
It'd be easy enough to build that world. After the Emperor's fall, the Empire struggled to find a replacement. The New Republic seizes core worlds and negotiates the onboarding of disgruntled Imperial worlds. But some worlds, most former CIS strongholds, detest the Republic. They unite around the Imperial banner and resist any intrusions. After a decade or two, an uneasy truce exists between the two factions. The Republic fears a return of the Empire, while the Remnant fear the dominion of an unfeeling bureaucracy.
25:33 I thought that the only force lessons Luke had up until this point was the "predict the blasts from the training droid without your eyes" that he did with obi-wan. Which is forsight training, which would be applicable to perfectly timing a missile shot, not necessarily telekinesis.
Yeah, the proton torpedoes turning to go down the shaft wasn't Luke using The Force to bend their trajectory(because if that was required the other X-wings/Y-wings wouldn't have been doing the trench run, they'd be coming at it from straight above), The Force was just about timing the firing so the Torpedoes would be able to make that turn under their own power.
As poorly as he describes them, there are indeed problems in the OT. Patty has a bit of a hard time, though, recognising how immeasurably worse these problems are in the ST.
The part about the Vader scene also reminds about the discussion about the Warwick scene from act 2 more specifically about how good the music of Vaders massacre fits the scene whereas the music in Warwicks rampage juat highlights how cool Warwick is for doing the stuff he does in LOL.
I, too, hate when people use the trivia they know to act like their opinion is more valuable. Like, when I told someone I loved TRoS, he shared a neat little detail where if you look closely in RotJ, you can see that Palpatine gets vaporized... twice! But then he goes on to act like TRoS sucks and he's right and I'm wrong all because he knows such factoids. Anyway, these lead paint chips are delicious.
What you described isn’t “trivia.” It’s what happened in the original films. This is known as “canon” and the sequels break and contradict it again and again. A actual example of trivia is that the entire “Palpatine cloned himself!” idea is ripped from Legends. The formally extended Star Wars universe of stories and characters that Disney declared didn’t exist anymore and yet again and again keep shamelessly jacking stuff from it for their own horrid films.
When fans point to the OT or prequels as an example of how to tell good stories within this franchise, Patrick misinterprets it as fans wanting the new movies to be EXACTLY like the OT or prequels. He then chastises the fans when the sequels do something vaguely similar to the OT or prequels, but he also omits key context as to why it didn't work in the sequels. Rinse and repeat. It's very frustrating.
Idk if they mention it in the video but when he says Star Wars fans just want a shiny remake of the ot he completely ignores that one of the biggest criticisms of the sequel trilogy was how much it ripped off the ot
34:35 my wife had never seen the Star Wars films until she was in her 20s. She had an issue with watching older films. But once we got to Return of the Jedi she was invested and ended up really liking the movies. Even the scene of Vader revealing himself to be Lukes father was cool and would have been cooler if that scene wasn't as well known as it was.
This is so much funnier now that Mando season 2, Ahsoka, and Kenobi all exist and make this guy's video, points, and bad faith arguments so much worse.
The best thing for sequels to do would have been to just not be connected to the OT at all. Have the New Republic be way off in the distance, the First Order is some new threat on the fringes and we see it from the POV of the locals. Have it start small scale, where Kylo is the bad guy, and he seems to just be some sinister culty dude. Then we see there are other First Orders on other planets, but they don't have a planet destroying weapon or a fleet. They are a movement, built around this guy Kylo Ren and his dark charisma and force powers. And our heroes don't have to figure out who he is, or what relationship he has to the OT, he's just "some sith dude" and we need to defeat him, but neither the good guys nor the First Order are really operating in the open.
Snoke could have been some random human maned Jeff and it would have been the same thing: where the hell does this guy come from, and why is he in charge of the First Order?
I can’t stand people who say, “You only like this piece of media because you were exposed to it as a child. You like it because it’s nostalgic for you. Trust me, I’m a millennial psychologist.” I hear this nonsense all the time in the Silent Hill community. It’s a cute, broad-spectrum argument that sounds somewhat intelligent but falls apart when scrutinized. What about those who played the games recently and still think the originals are great? What about those who didn’t like it as a child but returned to it as an adult and enjoyed it (this is my experience with Alien)? What about people who first discovered the sequels and returned to the OT to find they were better written and executed? It’s just something people hear and think, “Yeah, that makes sense. I do have a deep attachment to some things I liked as a kid.”
You will hear It no matter what ya like by people who question why you like, who ironically are either new to your hobby or bandwagon jumpers cause It is "The new hotness".
The argument was always that the amount of star destroyers purchasable for the price of 1 death star 2 is far more worth it in terms of fire power and reach and all that. However the Death Star doesn't put anyone in harm's way. It's like the A-bomb vs land invasion argument. Yes we could do it but we'd lose lots of troops. Death star 2 > star destroyers for intimidation. It's the weapon you don't have to use. And you don't have to drop into atmosphere to do any real damage.
In Asimov's Foundation, every war ship has a ray cannon that can hit the surface from space and deal damage similar to a nuclear explosion. So if you park one of those in orbit the planet will likely surrender. However, this makes wars way more aggressive, since every single enemy ship can force a world to surrender. However a land occupation is still needed to secure the planet, which means that you still need troops, even if in smaller numbers. Even then, the foundations eventually modifies civilians ship into small war cruisers, that, while not having a cannon, can still fight and are more combat effective, bringing the whole guerrilla war tactics. Of course it's incredibly unrealistic in the way it's depicted in the books, but that's on Asimov's not knowing how to build up satisfying battles. The same thing would happen is SW: Death Star killers would eventually be created and deployed, and the Empire would become Russia in Afghanistan and be bankrupt, on top of that military service on a Death Star would be considered a death sentence
I always thought the Emperor had a second Death Star constructed to simply lure the Rebels out of hiding, and he allowed the location of it to be exposed to make them overconfident thinking they could easily take down a half-constructed battle station. “It’s a Trap!”
People thought Snoke was Plagueis, because Abrams was intending to make him Plagueis. The biggest giveaway was that Snoke’s theme is almost identical to the music in RotS for the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise. Also it was obvious when Kasdan and JJ tried to play dumb and pretended to not know who Plagueis was when they were asked about him at a convention.
TH-camrs often mispell stuff intentionally because it boosts engagement via comments and thus leads to the video getting a bigger push from the TH-cam algorithm and getting more views. I would be more surprised if they edited the title than left it
@@matthew5226 sure the traffic is maybe a bit more but I still don’t think wolf intentionally misspelled it. If he did he woulda left it. It’s his sense of humor
@alosim1541 He did leave it for about 10 hours while also memeing on it and making other posts referencing it. Intentional? Maybe. Well played? Absolutely. If it was a mistake it's a "mistake" we might be seeing him make more often going forward xD
5:21 No, Bladerunner was bad. It became good when the directors cut was released. The original version was terrible. 34:25 I saw Star Wars in 1977. I'm 51 years old. I just watched Attack on Titan. Attack on Titan was really freaking good.
The hate for the sequel trilogy is founded not only on lies but on a fundamental misunderstanding of Star Wars itself. 1. Luke was ALWAYS a flawed hero and guess what? That didn't just stop being the case after he redeemed Vader. 2. Luke never tried to kill Ben Solo, he contemplated it for a split second, igniting his Lightsaber out of genuine fear..... not intent to kill. He regretted it immediately. He does the same thing in RotJ when he lashes out against Vader and nearly kills him before realizing IT WAS WRONG. IT'S LITERALLY THE SAME AS BEN SOLO. 3. Luke's death was PERFECT, he went out like a true Jedi. Force Projection was already established in legends. His death mirrors Obi-Wan sacrificing himself to inspire Luke to continue his path as a Jedi. Luke's was to inspire the Resistance to keep fighting. 4. Rey is not this overpowered character everyone claims she is. Kylo literally states in the Last Jedi novel that the force projection ability Luke used would kill Rey immediately. I'm gonna end it with this quote from Yoda, but there's so much I didn't cover just the main thing everyone keeps talking about. "Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things." Luke going out the way he did, not fighting but peacefully is what a true Jedi would do.
As someone born between 1980 and 1992, I got to see it in the theatre thanks to special runs. And about the sequel trilogy: TFA: mostly a reskin of Ep4, with new characters but the same old factions. It was ok, but not great. TLJ: an attempt to reskin Ep5, with a pointless sidequest and characters in the middle, and the ending fell flat. TRoS: I was not excited, and never watched it, mostly thanks to TLJ.
0:50 Nothing he says here is actually WRONG per se. The issue is that he’s deliberately ignoring the 500 pound gorilla in the room: the writing became shit. Edit: well, the whole “canonization of the first Star Wars” bit was really weird.
Gotta love how many shills of the Last Jedi had all went into hiding or just pure hypocrites... Rise of Skywalker did to them, what The Last Jedi did to all of Star Wars.
*sigh* I can't believe we have to explain why the establishing of rules or traits on characters within a world to just throw them aside in next film, book or whatever is bad writing. If a character goes from wise to a dumbass within five minutes, that's bad writing. Let's say we have a world where magic needs a wand to work, than suddenly main character just uses magic without it than it's bad writing. UNLESS it's explored and explained how and why it's possible. It can be done retroactively but best option is always mild foreshadowing so it can be still be an explosive moment or twist/revelation to the audience without breaking the establishment of the rule. Maybe the audience sees that when the character gets angry a small fire flickers in and out of existence without their wand. Maybe an older wizard explores some ruins from an extinct race and finds artefacts that could use magic. See plenty of ways to add to a rule without scribbling over the established rule. It just requires some care and thinking. This is why planning out your entire trilogy might have BEEN A FCKING GOOD IDEA! Or ya know not having two directors and writers who contradicted each other and wanting to outdo one another. This is why every great book I can think of has a single vision and writer, makes it easy to stop those problems arising.
How do you reckon patrick explains me agreeing with EFAP? My first movie was TFA. I asked my then girlfriend to tell me what was up with the star wars episodes being numbered like that and I watched the prequels then the OT. I have no nostalgia associated with the star wars brand and I found the sequels to be pretty terribly written the more I engaged with them. How nonsense does it make his thesis sound when someone with no connection to the series and a lifelong fan agree on the fundamental flaws of the movie? Also this is another case of Mr subjective man telling us that our opinion is less important because some people grew up with the movies and hated the sequels. Of course if you love every star wars product out of nostalgia then that's not bad. Imagine having consistent standards
I was "young and impressionable" when, say, Return of the Jedi came out, but I was a young adult when Lord of the Rings came out, and it still gave me everything I wanted.
You will find no trilgoys here
This isn't right, that was ours!
I feel thin, like too much media literacy spread over too much trilgoy
Unless you brought them with you
@@EFAPHighlights you can't un-fuck the Thanksgiving turkey.
You're under arrest for harbouring illegal trilgoys.
They're whole argument is "why should we have to adhere to canon?"
If they weren't gonna follow what came before... then why even call it star wars? Why not make it it's own property? Answer: nobody would watch it
If people creating don't care about the setting, why should we?
I hate this argument about a lot of starships is better than the death star... Russia as a 4k load of machineries (and soldiers) and look at how much trouble they are having with ukraine, america has a 4k load of machinery and yet they struggle with Vietnam and goat farmers in ghe middle east... If they had only those, do you think people would be scared of them... What scares them??? The nukes they never use... It literally ended world war 2 for jpn, not a whole lot of machineries...
The loud majority of star wars fans have no ability to apply logic, they try, god bless their heart they try, but they fail so woefully...
ICBMs are making troops and carriers obsolete and we have star wars fans saying it smarter to build more carriers than ICBM because a blue dude said in other to sound smart in the books (i love admiral thrawn but that was a shit argument)...
Canon has become this weird little word ppl use which is easier to demonise and dismiss, instead of using the word canon is just a synonym for...
The story. Canon is the story that was told. If something contradicts the previously told story but is meant to be part of that same story then they fucked up. Simple.
@@johnnycrown5097 the US had struggles with vietnam and goat farmers primarily from politicians tying up the hands of the people on the ground more than anything.
@donovandelozier7156 if you think politicians leaving the soldiers to have free reign means they would have won any of the two quite easily, you're joking... But do you know what makes you win easily??? Not troops or machineries, but nukes... Ask jpn...
The empire sending in troops and materiel into the planet rather nuking it from orbit is more costly... They can have surface go orbit missile to repel an orbital bombardment from starships... Rebels can choose to fight against troops for their family but when they realize that their entire planet can be erased even if they leave it to go fight for the rebels, you start to ask yourself what's the point of fighting... There's not even a single argument here... I see that thrawn idea everywhere and it just pisses me off because not a single thought was put into it...
Btw, I'm not talking about the politics of the Vietnam war and the goat farmers (I'm using goat farmers because yt is hot on my comments), I actually agree with you on that... I'm talking about the difficulty of the Vietnam terrain and the mole strategy of the goat farmers... You see why nukes beat plenty troops and materiel???
If I ever get asked to explain the concept of the “educated idiot”, I’d point to Patrick Willems.
What I love most about this whole debacle is how, after RoSw, he complained and basically everyone used his own words to roast the crap outta him!
@@TheSchultinator And he still doesn’t get it.
@@TheSchultinator That is hilarious!
Fun fact:
It was only critics who disliked Star Wars when it first came out, not the average movie-goers like Patrick likes to imply. The critics of the OT’s time felt Star Wars was too schlocky, not “high art”, and wanted Hollywood to avoid making more movies like it. It was so prevalent in the film critic circle that Siskel and Ebert had a whole special dedicated to defending the trilogy from their peers.
So basically, critics have always wrong, and Patrick is trying to gaslight us into believing the critics opinions back then were general audience opinions.
Star Wars is schlocky, not high art, and Hollywood should avoid making too many movies like it. None of that makes Star Wars bad.
I love how people live to protest what happened in history they didnt live through to peole who did.
@@bigduke5902 Nah. We need more movies like it. Forget the stupid "high art" pretentious crap.
@@bigduke5902Fuck that artsy crap.
There is this trend throughout the world and throughout history where those who speak to the people try to act like they are somehow those who speak for the people.
43:21 Ah yes, the “diversity” that was so badly mismanaged that John Boyega himself called out Lucasfilm for using him as an advertised token and then giving everybody except HIM a character arc. Of course THAT diversity.
"A rigid set of rules."
All we wanted was a story that didn't actively shit on and destroy the Prequels and the OT and they couldn't even manage that.
Patrick Willems is the kind of person who writes stuff like, "Why your bacon and cheese sandwich doesn't have to taste like a bacon and cheese sandwich."
Why the bacon shaped tomato is a perfect substitue for you bacon and cheese sandwich - a breakfast analysis
Him and his husband definitely voted for Kamala.
If he were to actually say that, I might have to honor duel him
Why do you care? Its just a meal about
Sand Wizards for children!
22:00 She explicitly states in her transmission, “Years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars.” This Patrick guy does not know what he is talking about.
He was also the only known Jedi alive so that also qualifies him more than anyone else
I'll always wonder how people could look at the Sequel Trilogy and miss how badly it damaged the franchise. It used to print money, now most people are only interested in how badly they will fumble the next project.
Uh, it's obviously spelled "Trilgoy."
I hate this argument about a lot of starships is better than the death star... Russia as a 4k load of machineries (and soldiers) and look at how much trouble they are having with ukraine, america has a 4k load of machinery and yet they struggle with Vietnam and goat farmers in ghe middle east... If they had only those, do you think people would be scared of them... What scares them??? The nukes they never use... It literally ended world war 2 for jpn, not a whole lot of machineries...
The loud majority of star wars fans have no ability to apply logic, they try, god bless their heart they try, but they fail so woefully...
ICBMs are making troops and carriers obsolete and we have star wars fans saying it smarter to build more carriers than ICBM because a blue dude said in other to sound smart in the books (i love admiral thrawn but that was a shit argument)...
Death Star isn't really better than having a well-armed and more mobile navy. It can't be everywhere at once, is slower, costs way more than ships it's replacing and having a weapon that can destroy a planet is just wasteful due to resources you lose by doing so.
A lot of people like to point out "B-b-b-but they made a bazillion dollars at the box office!" but so did shit from dead franchises like Aquaman. The biggest victory a franchise can have isn't just monetary short-term gain, but cultural relevance and staying power.
Star Wars wasn't as huge as it was because the OT performed really well in theaters, it became a cultural phenomenon because people kept coming back and injecting new life and love into it DECADES later. Entire generations of people have grown up with Star Wars.
(It's also pretty telling that despite making two billion-dollar movies Disney only broke even in their star wars buyout like 2 years ago. lmao)
@@johnnycrown5097I can definitely tell you are bot
23:01
I flipped out on this part.
Okay, so yes, there *is* a subversion of expectation with Yoda. At first, nobody knows that the silly muppet creature is Yoda. Everyone comes in with preconceived notions of what the great master Yoda must look like, only for Yoda to reveal that he, the little muppets creature, IS in fact master Yoda himself.
BUT IMPORTANTLY, HE DOES NOT REMAIN SILLY!
Yoda’s attitude and demeanor immediately flips from silly comic relief to a stern and wise sage. His attitude FITS with what can be reasonably expected of a Jedi master, we just weren’t expecting an alien muppet to play the role.
In the last Jedi, I remember seeing Luke’s flippant attitude with throwing the lightsaber and at first thinking he was mirroring what Master Yoda did with him to teach Rey patience. It would have made sense given what we know of his character and history. But then it’s revealed that NOPE he actually IS a wet sock, and we’re left to wonder WHY?!?! And the explanation we are given does NOT make sense!
That is a great point. Honestly it just makes me yearn for a what-if TLG where Luke is presenting himself to Rey as an annoying old douchbag with no hope for the Jedi as a way to test Rey's determination. Most would probably look at Luke acting like this and think "wow, this guy is the key to saving the universe? what a joke, I guess the Jedi really are screwd, I'm out of here" but Rey could show a bit of personality for a change and remain determined and hopeful that this guy could help. And once Rey proves that she will never give up hope on Luke, and the Jedi as a whole for that matter, THEN Luke would be like "yup, that's the one" and reveal that he was just testing her determination and patience and agree to train her and save the Jedi. God, I'm not even a Star Wars fan, I never cared about it until TLJ provoked a war and raised serious questions about storytelling as a whole. But as I watch more and more these videos explaining the abhorrent treatment these characters went though, I can't help but be pissed off too. What a waste...
Imagine a world where Luke did all that and tried to send her away as a test. "Why are you here, Rey from nowhere? No, why are YOU here? Who are you?"
Let a frustrated Rey touch the dark side. A force storm, maybe, with Luke and his surroundings entirely untouched. "Is that what you want, Rey from nowhere? The power to destroy everything you see?"
That's exactly what I thought was going on too. I was so excited when I saw Luke through that lightsaber over his shoulder because I was like, "oh shit, he's pulling a Yoda!" And I thought about how fun it was going to be now that we the audience who had seen this before were in on the joke and got to watch Ray's reaction it would be such a change-up and, dare I say, a great way to subvert our expectations because we're now seeing similar events through a different lens and it helps recontextualize it for us and that's fun! But no. What we got was a steaming pile of bullshit.
Not just a wet sock, but a jizz sock. 😭
I still can't get over how Luke is given his old lightsaber that he hasn't seen in over thirty years, which he must have written off as gone forever, since it was dropped into a gas giant along with his severed hand. But nope - no reaction. He isn't at all curious how this weapon was retrieved and brought back to him!?
I've always found it weird when people defended the sequels by shitting on the original and it always left me with the question: "If you hate the OT so much, how did you become a Star Wars fan?
They never liked the original Star Wars. They liked how fans hated it and rolled with it
Given the convoluted manner in which they defend the Sequels, I doubt they actually like them either. More likely, there's some autistic identity thing calling them to defend it. Grifting is also always possible.
Some of us JUST like the KotOR games lol
Spoiler alert: they never were
They cannot actually defend the sequels and they know it, so they have to resort to shitting on the original because, in their minds, this brings the sequels up to the level of the OT.
Tearing down the Beautiful to exalt the ugly will never make the Ugly loved. Only Resented
Get out of here, Xana.
I mean.. Put yourself in the ugly shoes.. Put African art next to European art.. You can kinda understand why some people get mad and want to tear others down..
@@Yogurt_Fingerswell, what you think African art is but okay...
I hate this argument about a lot of starships is better than the death star... Russia as a 4k load of machineries (and soldiers) and look at how much trouble they are having with ukraine, america has a 4k load of machinery and yet they struggle with Vietnam and goat farmers in ghe middle east... If they had only those, do you think people would be scared of them... What scares them??? The nukes they never use... It literally ended world war 2 for jpn, not a whole lot of machineries...
The loud majority of star wars fans have no ability to apply logic, they try, god bless their heart they try, but they fail so woefully...
ICBMs are making troops and carriers obsolete and we have star wars fans saying it smarter to build more carriers than ICBM because a blue dude said in other to sound smart in the books (i love admiral thrawn but that was a shit argument)...
Thanks Xana
Trilgoy, a group of three non-jews
The Trilgoyim know!
Aka cattle.. To be killed or enslaved at their whim.. The WEF, Blackrock, WHO etc are all run by Them..
Trilgoy, a trilogy of tepoy ( a 3-legged ornamental stand)
@@sakkra93
SHUT IT DOWN!!!
(rubs hands together greedily)
i love that he tries to say rey gaining power is the same as luke then says luke is just “hanging out with a puppet in a swamp”
what a chode
Especially when by the end of the third film for Luke, he still wasn't as powerful as Rey yet had more training. He was going to be killed by Palpatine. Even Vader was still powerful. But Adam Driver gets pwned every film, sometimes multiple times.
Well yeah, how's he supposed to equate them in good faith?
Rey's training: cutting a rock in tlj, in tfa she uses the force just because she knew it was a thing a few minutes before. Also in tros she did the training and not failing once
Luke's training: using lightsaber while "blindfolded", staying up with one arm with Yoda on him (failed), trying to raise one big rock with the force (failed), fighting his inner demons in the forest
Pretty sure I am forgetting something about Luke's training, but to put it simple by seeing Luke's struggle we feel more involved and wants to see him succeeding. Rey is already perfect so we feel nothing at her victories because we already know she's gonna win easly. Sure, we already know that Luke is gonna win because he's the hero of the story, but the reason why it's different from Rey is that by knowing Luke's limits it adds stakes and many possibilities for how he's gonna gain his victory
Saying “go back to when you were a kid and give your past self the sequel trilogy” is the worst argument ever.
Like he’s insinuating that because children are naive and stupid they would like the sequels. That’s literally stating that you need to be dumb to like them.
Also, I was 9 when TFA came out. I still thought it was bad.
Kids didn't buy into Sequel Trilogy, we see this easily from toy and other merchandise sales. But when have numbers ever mattered to people...
If we got sequels first original later we would all agree that Disney can really use well that IP. It would be like the original "the thing" vs Carpenter's "the thing"
When I was a kid, I read the Thrawn trilogy. I then consumed everything I could up through the New Jedi Order.
Young me would have been less kind to the sequels than present me.
@@Ihavethetouch Indeed. Compare the massive economy that was created from the prequels to what was created from the sequels, and it's no comparison
Then in the next breath, he'll argue how deep the themes in TLJ are. 🤦♂️
WOLF WAIT! WOLF! DON'T UPLOAD THE VIDEO YET! THERE'S A TYPO IN THE TITLE! WOOOOOOOOLF!!!!
Wolf - *IS* it a typo? *IS IT?*
He has his ear pods on he can't hear you 😖😭
I BEGGED YOU!
Oy vey
An utter embarrassment, I'll expect to hear of his firing by the week's end.
Patrick the type of guy who would applaud a new Jurassic Park movie that was about an alien invasion and had nothing to do with dinosaurs
That almost sounds like what happened to Dino Crisis.
He probably would've loved the unmade JP sequel where they made intelligent, human/dino hybrids who basically looked like aliens.
I'm just imagining him as the coomer meme but it's "let the movie SUBVUUUUURT!!"
An Alien film with only ghosts.
@@scales78 A Toy Story movie where Woody doesn't care about his child- oh wait
"Man, I love the original Trilgoy!" - an intelecutal take
I love the original Trilgoy!
Let's never let Trilgoy die
Intelecutal...*flashbacks to GDELB*
- Biblo Baggnis
"If you watched the sequel trilogy as a kid, you would love it and be defending it today."
Yeah, that's why Garfield 2004 is such a beloved film that everyone talks about. No one ever enjoyed a movie as a kid and then disliked it as an adult. ಠ_ಠ
Armageddon came out when I was a teenager and I loved it back then. As I matured and developed a more sophisticated understanding of storytelling, I came to realize the movie is complete garbage.
@@GothWolfRants I still think it's fun, but in a very early Michael Bay kind of way. It's just dumb action; not atrocious, but nothing super special. But yeah, there are good reasons why we still like certain movies as adults. If it were just nostalgia, then we would be praising every older movie.
There were so many Patrick types in my film class. It was a nightmare.
Oh man I feel sorry for you
Patypes.
That sounds fun. At least if class discussions have some vigor. If it's just sitting listening, I would probably strangle myself mid-lecture.
@@-Azure.EXE- I could not stop myself from snickering tbh
Postmodernism has been a disaster for the human race
Their arguments are always, condensed; "this entire franchise is stupid anyway, so let us ruin it more."
I really really hate the argument "The OG trilogy was always bad." It just falls flat because the other person is usually just trying to shut down discussions because they lost the argument. What's so sad is their final defense of the sequels is that Star Wars was always "bad or goofy," which is strange because they never can defend the sequels. There's also a cycle of repeating arguments then going back to the "Always bad" argument like it's iron clad. It's infuriating!
Especially when they're not that bad. I watched some of it recently and the part that stood out to me as dumb is when the stormtroopers repeatedly miss the good guys... which is intentional. There was no point where someone carved a knife in the shape of a wreckage and hid it it as a secret map.
If it's a coincidence the best stuff came out when we were younger and more impressionable, why isn't this new DisneyWars garbage being avidly enjoyed/defended by children instead of just goonish, jelly-spined adults? And if the original stuff was just liked by kids, why was it clearly enjoyed by people who were adults at that point?
This rabies-infected line of logic needs put down for good.
Trilgoy is my guy, how dare Patrick ridicule and belittle him.
Trilgoy did nothing wrong!
Trilgoy was here
@@kdash2657 nah he’s saying just the original trilgoy is bad. The new updated trilgoy 2.0 is badass
Trilgoy is a good rat!
I hate this argument about a lot of starships is better than the death star... Russia as a 4k load of machineries (and soldiers) and look at how much trouble they are having with ukraine, america has a 4k load of machinery and yet they struggle with Vietnam and goat farmers in ghe middle east... If they had only those, do you think people would be scared of them... What scares them??? The nukes they never use... It literally ended world war 2 for jpn, not a whole lot of machineries...
The loud majority of star wars fans have no ability to apply logic, they try, god bless their heart they try, but they fail so woefully...
ICBMs are making troops and carriers obsolete and we have star wars fans saying it smarter to build more carriers than ICBM because a blue dude said in other to sound smart in the books (i love admiral thrawn but that was a shit argument)...
I'm sick of people twisting the argument of Rey's powers into "She gained powers off-screen, that's rubbish", because that's not the argument. The actual argument is that there's no clear timeline, and she received barely any training from Luke, yet she's able to lift several tonnes of boulders with no effort in the beginning of Rise Of Skywalker.
Luke having to strain himself to pull his lightsaber to him in the beginning of Empire is in line with what we saw him learn in A New Hope, and what would be a reasonable power progression between movies.
Fuck's sake, why does every defense of the sequel trilogy have to rely on bad faith arguments?!
It's even worse than that. We have a timeline of events, because the chase sequence is very linear.
Snoke came for Leia fast enough that they had no time to flee after Starkiller base. The slow speed chase can't have taken more than a day or three, based on the events we saw. And Rey had barely learned the Force existed before Starkiller.
So she's had no more than a week to master the Force to that level.
EDIT: and we know how fast they can clear camp from Episode V. From detection to evacuation was on the order of hours. We even see the ground forces scrambling to set up defenses as the Imps arrive.
@@robertbeisert3315It’s so fucking dumb, I swear to god. And yet Sequel fanboys will wave away these complaints and simply spout straw man’s until they pass out.
it's even worse. she gained powers ON-SCREEN and it still didn't make sense
Because they cannot actually defend the ST and they know it.
"Tch... You people wanted... ugh... *gratification* spending money for a movie you've waited several long years for instead of... you know, SUBVERSIVE THEMATIC *ART* !?"
I hate the argument that we only like older things because we were ‘young and impressionable.’ And the only reason we still like them is because of nostalgia, not because they’re actually well made. I can’t speak for Star Wars, I did see all the movies for the first time when I was young, but I can speak to Elder Scrolls. I didn’t play Morrowind until 2022, I was 21 years old, and it is my favorite game of all time, by a landslide. Bethesda shills constantly tell me I’m blinded by rose tinted glasses when I never even played the game as a kid. It’s just objectively better than the slop they’ve put out for the past 15+ years.
It works in both ways. I thought part of growing up is realising how dumb you were when you were young and reviewing your opinions.
Yes. children like a lot of bad things, but once you spend a decade or two weeding out the bad you end up with the good things that had a strong influence on you.
I can speak for starwars. Before this year the only starwars content I saw were the last jedi, and a little bit of both the clone wars and rebels cartoons on Disney XD even then I barely remember any of these.
It's only till this year in 2024 as a 20 year old where I really became a fan, which all began when a vid of the lost cut appeared in my TH-cam feed one day. After that more and more starwars vids appeared. But it wasn't till I saw a clip of episode 4 upscaled that I had the desire to see the movies for myself.
After which I quickly bought myself a DVD copy of Empire strikes back, played it on my ps4 with my brother, and we were blown away. I didn't expect it to be this good, and so well paced that I forget that I'm watching 2 hour long movie. The moment luke was using the force to telekeneticlly pull his Saber to him was one of the few times where I vocally cheered for the hero in a movie. And it was finally cool to see all these beloved characters like Han, chewing and Leia in action. And despite long being spoiled the twist by the internet, it still shocked us when we finally saw it. I didn't even know it happened in episode 5
And after that the rest was history We saw every original and prequel movie on disney+ and even got to see episode 1 come back to theaters on May the 4th.
Our order was:
-Empire strikes back
-A new hope
-The phantom menance
-Return of the jedi
-Attack of the clones
-Revenge of the sith
My favorite being revenge of the sith, loved every bit of it, especially the duel at the end with battle of the heroes playing.
To put it simply, I love starwars, even if I didnt exist yet to see the originals or old enough see the prequels. I still enjoyed these movies for what they are now as a young adult. and believe alot of them still hold merit to this day.
-oh and about the sequels, I hadn't seen them all yet. I might update this comment when I do.
(This is mostly just me ranting how much I love starwars)
It also assumes that people can't look critically at things from their childhoods at all. Mate, there's so much stuff I loved as a kid that simply does not hold up anymore. Star Wars is not one of those things.
@@TheKiltedGerman very true, I also should’ve added that. I liked the CW superhero shows for a while because I was 13 when the Flash started. Got hooked on the 1 actual season that was good and stuck with all the shows for way too long after that 😂 and I can definitely go back now and see how garbage all of them were, but I enjoyed them at the time because my standards _were_ simply much lower. So there is _some_ merit to the argument that our standards are lower when we’re younger, but you’re exactly right, it assumes we don’t have the ability to think critically as adults.
Oh as someone born in 1979 and who first saw the OT as a young child I’ll admit I have a ton of nostalgia for the films. However as an adult I can say they are well written with good characters and engaging, if simple, storylines. And when you think of the technical accomplishments of the VFX it’s mind blowing. My wife who never saw any Star Wars thinks the OT looks the best and is blown away that they were made in the late 70s-early 80s and with models. In my opinion the OT VFX hold up against any modern CGI.
“ couldn’t they just rebuild the death star without the weakness?”
LOL I love how this implies that the engineers behind the death star literally built in a weakness to it. It’s not like it’s a ventilation shaft, and therefore a necessary part of the mechanics that just happens to be a weak point. No, no, it’s a weakness.
That’s like someone stuffing gasoline soaked cloth into your gas tank and setting it on fire and someone being like why would you build a car with that kind of weakness? lmao
Didn’t Rouge One explain why the lead engineer built it the way it was?
@@rasendori20 yeah so technically the weakness was intentionally implemented but the rest of the empire doesn't know that so this guy's point still kinda works? Like they all had the idea that it was impenetrable but the ventilation shaft that Madds Mikkelson put into it was intentionally made to be a major flaw cuz he secretly hated the empire
Reminds me of Neil Degrasse Tyson's proposed solution to cyber crimes;
"Perhaps we should make unhackable systems?"
@ lol computer programers minds explode “My god thats GENIUS! Why didn’t we think of that? No wonder they call you black science man!”
@rasendori20 it was a bad idea then, too.
The port was set up as a nearly impossible target found as the only exploitable weakness after careful analysis in the first film. The Empire, itself, found the vulnerability the Rebels were targeting and sent fighters to intercept.
The rewrite undermines all of that. "Here's a map to the super exploitable weakness I put in for no reason. Lucky the Empire's incompetent."
Trilgoy sounds like a much-worse Temu version of Trogdor.
Geez it's been a while since I've seen a reference to the Burninator
@@jiggycalzone8585 He'll always live on, burninating the peasants in their thatched roof cottages, in our hearts.
Yeah or like the name of the good-drawed dragon that Strong Sad made
I don’t know, Trilgoy sounds like a name Strong Sad would use for his characters
It's 2024 and only a few people even know who this is.
Culture is truly dead.😞
A small correction about something everyone gets wrong: Luke was not guiding the torpedoes with the Force. The torpedoes where following a preprogrammed course. Luke was using the Force to fire the torpedoes at the right moment and and the right angle, which is something the targeting computer was supposed to do. Using the Force to aim better than a computer is similar to what Luke and Obi Wan practiced when travelling on the Falcon.
Willems slobbering all over TLJ's knob and offering no valid reasons is still infuriating
A boy happens upon a fence. There is a man standing by it, painting where the wood is showing and repairing damages, being careful and showing care and patience in his practice.
The boy asks why the man is so careful about the fence, and what is on the other side. The man states that they could go there but it would chaos, and that if the boy chooses to go there he may so long as the fence itself is kept intact. The boy declares that any fence is a restriction on creativity and freedom to move through the meadow as he pleases. The boy breaks the fence and walks over to the other side.
This is modern media, post modern thought, modern art, etc. in its most simple form. Not a healthy, respectful evolution and preservation of what was, but a needless destruction and revolution and subversion because the new must always be better than the old, a senseless change made without reasoning.
Wilhem uses large words and fancy arguments to justify this very same thought process. Stories are not simply self insertion tales for for one’s own whimsy, especially when they have history and care and so many people who listen to and share those stories. There must be integrity and stability.
Exactly. If you're going to build your story off of someone else's work. You need to have respect for that work. It's not just a label you can slap onto whatever story you want for the brand recognition.
This man maintaining the fence, his name wouldn't happen to be Chesterton, would it?
Something about being doubly sure not to tear something down without knowing its purpose. I can't recall the quote at all.
@@berndberndsen5680 smart man, I was referencing him. I grew up with my father giving a slightly different tale about a tree but the principle stands!!
@@TheKiltedGerman GK Chesterton, yes!
What dimwits like Pat don't understand, it's that in the long run franchises survive on the shoulders of the people who care about "trivia". Normies like me (as far as SW goes) bring the movies into the billions, but core fans keep the lights on during hard times and buy all the stuff (merchandise and all) that people like me don't. There is a reason fund campaigns for SW are failing: they lost the guys who "care about trivia". Who else is gonna spend 200+ for a damn lightsaber?
Also, I don't have that baggage of lore that others have, and still the sequels make no sense...
Pseudo intellectuals who never payed attention in literature class 😂😂 Willems is an embarrassment to YTubers
eh. TH-camrs never had an IQ requirement. A lot of the time it's the opposite.
Rather he's an insult and an embarassment to anyone who claims to care about media or stories.
@ Facts!
"And why was Obi-Wan Kenobi the Rebellion's only hope? Leia had never even met him"
This is kind-of incredible. #1) The dialogue strongly suggests they know each other #2) Is he really their only hope, or is Leia appealing to Obi-Wan's heroism?
Willems is either very, very dumb or he's strawmanning strawmen
Not only that, but the she straight up TELLS why she putting her hope in him , because he 'fought with her father in the Clone Wars' and because he was great Jedi.
Also the context of the message is that she recorded it while her ship was being boarded by Darth Vader right above the planet she knew Obi Wan( likely the only nearby ally they might have considerig the movie starts with them being hotly pursued), a planet BTW we are shown is otherwise occupied by the criminal & the desperate. She might even know that Obi Wan was Vaders old master(ObiWan was quick enough to tell Luke that, Bail might have told Leia something similar, even in the context of the original script absent taking the prequels into account, its a reasonable assumption given what we are shown about the rest of her knowledge of ObiWan).
She doesnt necessarily have to have ever met ObiWan personally, just knew him by reputation, which is desperate straights would be enough.
And of course Disney cucks him with Kenobi, so fucking hilarious. Even the company in ehich he's trying to boot lick fucks him over.
Idk what strawman is even supposed to mirror. I don't think anyone has a problem that the rebels are looking for Luke in TFA? Have people made that criticism?
@@bipstymcbipste5641 Can you try again in English? Mirror? How does one mirror a strawman?
Trilgoy the Original, slandered by Willems
Did you ever hear the tale of Darth Trilgoy the Original?
I remember the days of Patrick H Willems on EFAP and how he near single-handedly helped put EFAP on the map early on with his hilariously pretentious hot takes on Star Wars including the creation of the "old bad, new good" cop out featured here that many YT essayists use even today to defend horrifically bad new entries in long running franchises.
“Dogmatic” ahh yes the person who is quoting palpatine is totally not in the wrong
"I'd like the new part of the story to line up and make sense when taken alongside the established part of the story because that's how a good story usually works and I like good stories."
Dogmatic lunacy. LUNACY.
Something about this Patrick guy just makes me irrationally angry.
It’s because he’s a smug arrogant idiot who insults everybody else’s intelligence while being oblivious to his lack thereof.
it's the pretentious pseudo-intellecutal aloofness
that and his voice god I can't stand his voice
It's the smug narcissism coupled with his general lack of praiseworthiness.
@@arafat2924this is the same attitude a lot of the former Channel Awesome creators have especially Lindsay Ellis
the plot holes video has stayed rent free in my head for years. I'm not even joking. It haunts me that someone threw that shit at on twitter and I was like, "oh no. It's brain dead"
He's just the perfect stereotype of a dork
Not at all? Any of the people I'd call a dork are passionate about the things and media they care about, they wouldn't want it being shit all over then defend it like this
No, worse. He's a hipster.
@@AceLM92 A dripster.
You can't trust critics over the last decade when they talk about how good a movie is because it has diversity.
21:22
Oh I forgot he said that.
“She’d never even met him (Kenobi)”
Well that aged poorly!
The spiders laid this trap for Willems.
@
The Spiders knew this was coming, but we didn’t listen.
If only we had acted sooner!
21:24 "Why was Obi-wan the rebellions only hope when Leia hadn't ever met him?"
Obi-wan Kenobi comes out.
I love it when Disney contradicts their own die hard fan base lol.
also an interesting question. If I'm being attacked by enemies, why would I go look for a military general renowned for their combat prowess? It's not like that would help me in staging a rebellion... oh wait.
"Fans don't like Disney Star Wars because--"
Because of all the reasons they've specified over the last ten years, not this guy's tired-ass interpretation.
Almost 7 years later the sequel trilogy is still garbage.
And it will always be garbage.
It's not a checklist we have, it's a bingo card, open to many possibilities. Mainly, we just wanted to see the OT characters honored and somewhat happy at the end, joined by some likeable new allies. Making Luke a galactic drunk homeless dude and killing them all off in ludicrous ways was not anywhere on that card.
That's a great line, because someone will invariably wheel out the same old shitty fallacy whenever some horrible nostalgia-bait crap comes out.
Patrick Willems' war on basic tenants of story telling.
Even if you ignore how intentionally vague he's being in comparing the OT to the sequel trilogy, two movies having similar plot points doesn't make them the same quality, or even the same experience. Psycho (1998) isn't the same as Psycho (1960), despite being a shot-for-shot remake. Insidious is basically the same plot as Poltergeist, but they aren't the same experience.
The argument I found most compelling that runs counter to the idea of building more Star Destroyers over another Death Star is that weapon is the reason the Senate was dissolved in A New Hope; It has meaning outside of its function to kill planets. The Empire in between the events of Episode 5 and 6 have the upper hand on the Rebels so they could very well believe they stand to gain more from rebuilding their deterrent rather than bolstering their military might. Perfectly willing to hear alternatives to what makes the most sense for the Empire to do in that scenario but that’s the argument which makes the most sense to me at current.
All Disney had to do to make the first movie work was to match up the beginning of "The Force Awakens" with the end of 'Return of the Jedi." That's it. Build upon THAT movie. Instead, we get "The First Order has risen from the ashes of the Empire" in the first 5 seconds of the opening crawl. We're only 10 seconds into the movie and already we're wondering how any of this is possible.
It'd be easy enough to build that world. After the Emperor's fall, the Empire struggled to find a replacement. The New Republic seizes core worlds and negotiates the onboarding of disgruntled Imperial worlds.
But some worlds, most former CIS strongholds, detest the Republic. They unite around the Imperial banner and resist any intrusions.
After a decade or two, an uneasy truce exists between the two factions. The Republic fears a return of the Empire, while the Remnant fear the dominion of an unfeeling bureaucracy.
Don't mess with Trilgoy. He'll kick your ass three times over.
He was Auschwitz's final boss
He’s sooo the name of the dragon Strong Sad drew in the sbemail that introduced us to the Great Burninator
*minor spelling mistake*
The TRILGOY! Lol!
It’s not a mistake, wolf’s on his mid century German arc
Patrick Willems was EFAP's first ever major boss fight. As such he has a special place in the Toxic Brood's lore
TRILGOY!
Triljew!
25:33 I thought that the only force lessons Luke had up until this point was the "predict the blasts from the training droid without your eyes" that he did with obi-wan. Which is forsight training, which would be applicable to perfectly timing a missile shot, not necessarily telekinesis.
Yeah, the proton torpedoes turning to go down the shaft wasn't Luke using The Force to bend their trajectory(because if that was required the other X-wings/Y-wings wouldn't have been doing the trench run, they'd be coming at it from straight above), The Force was just about timing the firing so the Torpedoes would be able to make that turn under their own power.
A Day in the Life of Trilgoy Denisovich: A Patrick Willems Story
As poorly as he describes them, there are indeed problems in the OT. Patty has a bit of a hard time, though, recognising how immeasurably worse these problems are in the ST.
The part about the Vader scene also reminds about the discussion about the Warwick scene from act 2 more specifically about how good the music of Vaders massacre fits the scene whereas the music in Warwicks rampage juat highlights how cool Warwick is for doing the stuff he does in LOL.
I, too, hate when people use the trivia they know to act like their opinion is more valuable.
Like, when I told someone I loved TRoS, he shared a neat little detail where if you look closely in RotJ, you can see that Palpatine gets vaporized... twice! But then he goes on to act like TRoS sucks and he's right and I'm wrong all because he knows such factoids.
Anyway, these lead paint chips are delicious.
What you described isn’t “trivia.” It’s what happened in the original films. This is known as “canon” and the sequels break and contradict it again and again.
A actual example of trivia is that the entire “Palpatine cloned himself!” idea is ripped from Legends. The formally extended Star Wars universe of stories and characters that Disney declared didn’t exist anymore and yet again and again keep shamelessly jacking stuff from it for their own horrid films.
I was done at "cannonized" , then he said fans became experts? Now I understand the thumbnail
Canonization is the process of declaring someone a saint, he was saying the OT was put on a pedestal in the dumbest possible way.
Sound about right when it comes to these pseudo-intellectuals. Use big words to sound smart and use 50 words when 5 would have been enough.
@@Ihavethetouch "Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick" - The Wisest Man
Would have made a lot more sense to say 'idolisation' in that case since star wars ain't even a person and leaves 0 room for misinterpretation
When fans point to the OT or prequels as an example of how to tell good stories within this franchise, Patrick misinterprets it as fans wanting the new movies to be EXACTLY like the OT or prequels. He then chastises the fans when the sequels do something vaguely similar to the OT or prequels, but he also omits key context as to why it didn't work in the sequels. Rinse and repeat. It's very frustrating.
Idk if they mention it in the video but when he says Star Wars fans just want a shiny remake of the ot he completely ignores that one of the biggest criticisms of the sequel trilogy was how much it ripped off the ot
A NEW HOPE explains how Leia knows who Obi-Won is. He just had to re-watch the scene he took that screenshot from!!!
"Henceforth, you shall be known as the Original . . . Trilgoy."
34:35 my wife had never seen the Star Wars films until she was in her 20s. She had an issue with watching older films. But once we got to Return of the Jedi she was invested and ended up really liking the movies. Even the scene of Vader revealing himself to be Lukes father was cool and would have been cooler if that scene wasn't as well known as it was.
Yep. Things like Rosebud, Bambi's mom, and Arnold's the good guy in T2 have all been ruined for folks who haven't seen those movies yet.
Patrick can’t just accept that the Last Jedi is a terrible movie, and the writing is a downgrade from the original trilgoy.
It's amazing that there are still people defending The Last Jedi to this day.
This is so much funnier now that Mando season 2, Ahsoka, and Kenobi all exist and make this guy's video, points, and bad faith arguments so much worse.
Patrick is a special type of shill. Free and really, really bad.
Never heard of him, but that description sounds like another leftist who believes Disney Corp sludge somehow benefits their ideology.
The best thing for sequels to do would have been to just not be connected to the OT at all. Have the New Republic be way off in the distance, the First Order is some new threat on the fringes and we see it from the POV of the locals. Have it start small scale, where Kylo is the bad guy, and he seems to just be some sinister culty dude. Then we see there are other First Orders on other planets, but they don't have a planet destroying weapon or a fleet. They are a movement, built around this guy Kylo Ren and his dark charisma and force powers.
And our heroes don't have to figure out who he is, or what relationship he has to the OT, he's just "some sith dude" and we need to defeat him, but neither the good guys nor the First Order are really operating in the open.
Snoke could have been some random human maned Jeff and it would have been the same thing: where the hell does this guy come from, and why is he in charge of the First Order?
I can’t stand people who say, “You only like this piece of media because you were exposed to it as a child. You like it because it’s nostalgic for you. Trust me, I’m a millennial psychologist.”
I hear this nonsense all the time in the Silent Hill community. It’s a cute, broad-spectrum argument that sounds somewhat intelligent but falls apart when scrutinized.
What about those who played the games recently and still think the originals are great? What about those who didn’t like it as a child but returned to it as an adult and enjoyed it (this is my experience with Alien)? What about people who first discovered the sequels and returned to the OT to find they were better written and executed?
It’s just something people hear and think, “Yeah, that makes sense. I do have a deep attachment to some things I liked as a kid.”
You will hear It no matter what ya like by people who question why you like, who ironically are either new to your hobby or bandwagon jumpers cause It is "The new hotness".
The argument was always that the amount of star destroyers purchasable for the price of 1 death star 2 is far more worth it in terms of fire power and reach and all that. However the Death Star doesn't put anyone in harm's way. It's like the A-bomb vs land invasion argument. Yes we could do it but we'd lose lots of troops. Death star 2 > star destroyers for intimidation. It's the weapon you don't have to use. And you don't have to drop into atmosphere to do any real damage.
In Asimov's Foundation, every war ship has a ray cannon that can hit the surface from space and deal damage similar to a nuclear explosion. So if you park one of those in orbit the planet will likely surrender. However, this makes wars way more aggressive, since every single enemy ship can force a world to surrender. However a land occupation is still needed to secure the planet, which means that you still need troops, even if in smaller numbers. Even then, the foundations eventually modifies civilians ship into small war cruisers, that, while not having a cannon, can still fight and are more combat effective, bringing the whole guerrilla war tactics. Of course it's incredibly unrealistic in the way it's depicted in the books, but that's on Asimov's not knowing how to build up satisfying battles. The same thing would happen is SW: Death Star killers would eventually be created and deployed, and the Empire would become Russia in Afghanistan and be bankrupt, on top of that military service on a Death Star would be considered a death sentence
Rise of Trilgoy
I always thought the Emperor had a second Death Star constructed to simply lure the Rebels out of hiding, and he allowed the location of it to be exposed to make them overconfident thinking they could easily take down a half-constructed battle station. “It’s a Trap!”
People thought Snoke was Plagueis, because Abrams was intending to make him Plagueis. The biggest giveaway was that Snoke’s theme is almost identical to the music in RotS for the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise. Also it was obvious when Kasdan and JJ tried to play dumb and pretended to not know who Plagueis was when they were asked about him at a convention.
There’s a bit as well where someone asks that question and Daisy Ridley goes “ah….isnt that sn….”
Then I think JJ cuts her off
And then they just threw him in the trash because a few geeks guessed their plot twist. Amazing.
Just gonna leave this comment proving I was here before wolf fixed “trilgoy”
TH-camrs often mispell stuff intentionally because it boosts engagement via comments and thus leads to the video getting a bigger push from the TH-cam algorithm and getting more views.
I would be more surprised if they edited the title than left it
@@matthew5226 this comment aged like blue milk
@alosim1541 I'm not so sure about that lol, look at these comments
@@matthew5226 sure the traffic is maybe a bit more but I still don’t think wolf intentionally misspelled it. If he did he woulda left it. It’s his sense of humor
@alosim1541 He did leave it for about 10 hours while also memeing on it and making other posts referencing it.
Intentional? Maybe. Well played? Absolutely. If it was a mistake it's a "mistake" we might be seeing him make more often going forward xD
Somehow trilgoy has returned
5:21 No, Bladerunner was bad. It became good when the directors cut was released. The original version was terrible.
34:25 I saw Star Wars in 1977. I'm 51 years old. I just watched Attack on Titan. Attack on Titan was really freaking good.
The fact anyone still takes Patrick seriously is very sad.
The amount of bullshit excuses people come up with to defend the sequels 🙄🙄🙄
It’s Mindboggling
Those excuses have more work put to them than the actual writers put to the movie
@@IhavethetouchThe word “writers” is doing a LOT of heavy lifting there.
Still doing it.
Accurate thumbnail, good work my man
For me, it's pretty simple: I like the original trilogy, I hate the sequel trilogy. And insulting me won't change my mind.
The hate for the sequel trilogy is founded not only on lies but on a fundamental misunderstanding of Star Wars itself.
1. Luke was ALWAYS a flawed hero and guess what? That didn't just stop being the case after he redeemed Vader.
2. Luke never tried to kill Ben Solo, he contemplated it for a split second, igniting his Lightsaber out of genuine fear..... not intent to kill. He regretted it immediately. He does the same thing in RotJ when he lashes out against Vader and nearly kills him before realizing IT WAS WRONG. IT'S LITERALLY THE SAME AS BEN SOLO.
3. Luke's death was PERFECT, he went out like a true Jedi. Force Projection was already established in legends. His death mirrors Obi-Wan sacrificing himself to inspire Luke to continue his path as a Jedi. Luke's was to inspire the Resistance to keep fighting.
4. Rey is not this overpowered character everyone claims she is. Kylo literally states in the Last Jedi novel that the force projection ability Luke used would kill Rey immediately.
I'm gonna end it with this quote from Yoda, but there's so much I didn't cover just the main thing everyone keeps talking about.
"Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things."
Luke going out the way he did, not fighting but peacefully is what a true Jedi would do.
@@KJC04 The hatred for the sequels is them sucking.
@@lance134679 They didn't suck, they just didn't do exactly what you wanted. It didn't hold your hand and powder your rancid diaper so you hate it.
@@KJC04 My diaper actually smells nice.
The sequel trilogy is forever going to be shit.
As someone born between 1980 and 1992, I got to see it in the theatre thanks to special runs. And about the sequel trilogy:
TFA: mostly a reskin of Ep4, with new characters but the same old factions. It was ok, but not great.
TLJ: an attempt to reskin Ep5, with a pointless sidequest and characters in the middle, and the ending fell flat.
TRoS: I was not excited, and never watched it, mostly thanks to TLJ.
You’re watching Trilgoy wrong
"Leia had never even met Obi-Wan!"
Correct. Even in 2024, correct.
13:50 upon further reflection
What the fuck does he think a story IS?
A series of random pictures??!!
0:50 Nothing he says here is actually WRONG per se.
The issue is that he’s deliberately ignoring the 500 pound gorilla in the room: the writing became shit.
Edit: well, the whole “canonization of the first Star Wars” bit was really weird.
good trilgoyim
Hehe
Gotta love how many shills of the Last Jedi had all went into hiding or just pure hypocrites... Rise of Skywalker did to them, what The Last Jedi did to all of Star Wars.
ROTJ is a flawed film, many of the strikes against it are true. That doesn't make the sequels any less awful.
Oy vey, not the Original Trilgoy 🤣
41:36 Ah yes, the renowned and beloved star wars christmas special.
Lol, Trilgoy
*sigh* I can't believe we have to explain why the establishing of rules or traits on characters within a world to just throw them aside in next film, book or whatever is bad writing. If a character goes from wise to a dumbass within five minutes, that's bad writing. Let's say we have a world where magic needs a wand to work, than suddenly main character just uses magic without it than it's bad writing. UNLESS it's explored and explained how and why it's possible. It can be done retroactively but best option is always mild foreshadowing so it can be still be an explosive moment or twist/revelation to the audience without breaking the establishment of the rule. Maybe the audience sees that when the character gets angry a small fire flickers in and out of existence without their wand. Maybe an older wizard explores some ruins from an extinct race and finds artefacts that could use magic. See plenty of ways to add to a rule without scribbling over the established rule. It just requires some care and thinking. This is why planning out your entire trilogy might have BEEN A FCKING GOOD IDEA! Or ya know not having two directors and writers who contradicted each other and wanting to outdo one another. This is why every great book I can think of has a single vision and writer, makes it easy to stop those problems arising.
37:50 so when I watch the OT today, it shouldn't be good anymore since I'm no longer a child... but it IS still good. Strange...😂
No, see, that’s just your nostalgia goggles clouding your vision. Trust me, I’m an amateur child psychologist.
I smelt sequel slander, my ears hunger for its abuse...
Is it slander if it's objectively true?
@@Ihavethetouch probably not but i just love the word slander
I love the word “xylophone”
Orginal Trilgoy, please don't change the title wolf🙏
How do you reckon patrick explains me agreeing with EFAP? My first movie was TFA. I asked my then girlfriend to tell me what was up with the star wars episodes being numbered like that and I watched the prequels then the OT. I have no nostalgia associated with the star wars brand and I found the sequels to be pretty terribly written the more I engaged with them. How nonsense does it make his thesis sound when someone with no connection to the series and a lifelong fan agree on the fundamental flaws of the movie?
Also this is another case of Mr subjective man telling us that our opinion is less important because some people grew up with the movies and hated the sequels. Of course if you love every star wars product out of nostalgia then that's not bad. Imagine having consistent standards
Well I suppose he,d just say something like your the odd one out or something like that
I was "young and impressionable" when, say, Return of the Jedi came out, but I was a young adult when Lord of the Rings came out, and it still gave me everything I wanted.