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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ย. 2024
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I do a lot of gimbal work with the R5. IBIS is pretty bad when it is turned on and it is even worse when it is turned off, as the sensor is clearly vibrating when I hit the slightest bump. For me personally this is the biggest selling point of the R5c. I can't wait to switch.
The IBIS is perfect for "still" shots, but it has weird jerks and jiggles when you move the camera around too suddenly. It would be perfect if you could rely on ONLY lens IS for gimbal work and IBIS for handheld footage. That to me would have made it a perfect IBIS system.
I had i trick in gh5. Set manual focal lenght for ibis and adjust it for shortest possible number. 1mm for example. The sensor should be locked and ibis virtualy won't work :)
@@johnsysays despite what floats around TH-cam, I think we as viewers have tunnel vision, thinking that everyone wants the R5 for its video features. I think in reality, the vast majority of R5 owners use it primarily for photo. That being said, I don’t think the value of the R5 will drop significantly with the release of the R5C because they aren’t the same. The original R5 has better sealing and IBIS, which is much more important for photography. Because we live in the TH-cam space, we assume that most R5 buyers are filmmakers. I’d be willing to bet money that over half of R5 purchasers don’t even use the video features for their professional work. I want the R5C, but I can’t justify losing IBIS, not to mention I’d probably have to lose out on about $1000 (because you can prob sell the R5 for $3500 bit you still need to dish out another $1000 to buy the R5C).
@@johnsysays You want to eat your cake and have it. Good luck
I have to actually agree it’s a reason I’m switching also for that reason. The R5 on a gimbal I would get wobble effects that couldn’t be fixed in post
Hey Carl.
It’s very difficult to draw conclusions from this test. I didn’t know what focus lengths, or IS modes the cameras were set to as you didn’t say most times, there needed to be some graphics.
Did you try the R5 with IBIS and digital IS? The R5 IBIS corner wobble with wide lenses is awful, just like the GH5. It’s why I didn’t bother getting the 15-35mm RF as it’s the worst for wobble!
Canon really need to let their customers choose what parts of the camera stabilisation they want to use. Often digital IS alone is what you want, but you can’t do that as IBIS is turned on.
With the car mounting the only test that we needed to see was all stabilisation off bar the lens IS perhaps but only if it isn’t tied to IBIS. The problem with IBIS in cars can be sensor vibration when it’s turned off. Different cameras have better or worse locked down IBIS. The Nikon z9 looks like it has really solid sensor lock. You always should have the cameras in cars with no stabilisation. The car should be static in the frame and the background move.
Appreciate the tests though Carl and looking fowardl to the next ones! Have a great weekend. 🙂
PB: Couldn't agree more with your "Canon really need to let their customers choose what parts of the camera stabilisation they want to use. Often digital IS alone is what you want, but you can’t do that as IBIS is turned on" comment!
Easy, dont purchase it if you cant use it. Not many motion picture cine cameras with IBIS. Stick with the stuff that you can use.
Ya I agree this was a real lost opportunity to do proper tests with a variety of settings. This video wasn't very well thought out.
I'm with you on the test conditions and was a bit confused myself. But I think he tested in the R5C with IS and digital IS (I guess on the lower level?) and on the R5 of course with IS + IBIS enabled. Focal length was between 24 and 35 as he mentioned in the beginning (but where exactly?). As you said, digital IS alone is sometimes the way to go, but I still think using the optical IS is still less critical than IBIS or what is your experience?
You're looking "foetal" to the next tests? Are you pulling a Benjamin Button on us, Philip? I had thought you were looking younger lately...
Great review, but one key point: the R5 IBIS for still photography is AMAZING, especially when paired with an RF L series lens. And since you’re reviewing Canon’s true flagship hybrid cam, this is an important point. That said, in my experience IBIS is a wobble variable I don’t want intoriduced into my video footage, ever. So I disable IBIS in video mode and use a gimbal (e.g. the DJI RS2) to achieve smooth footage along with car mount (e.g. the Tilta Hydra Alien) and body stabilization (Tilta Float) systems. Even when filming with a c70, I disable digital IS. It’s just not going to give you comparable quality to a good gimbal system.
HI i am curious if R5 turn on IBIS+lens IS+Digital IS ,it could solve the corner wobble? thanks
The corner wobbling on IBIS cameras should only really be an issue with wider focal lengths. IBIS is much more desirable for longer focal lengths, especially when shooting handheld, and not necessarily walking, but just doing simple panning shots.
Couldn’t agree more and even if it is present in reality who is focusing on the corners of video ?
IBIS however is very useful for stills photography. It’d be nice to have a “mirror lockup” style feature where you could lock the sensor to disengage IBIS when you wanted to.
Yes!!! I’ve thought about that idea as well. That would be such an excellent option. I hope someone offers that soon. Cheers.
Yeah this would be the logical way to go but I guess they had reasons.
@@JeffBourke battery is too small to power a 8k sensor , processor , fan and IBIS. internal battery can't even send power to lens for AF if you are shooting 8k 60fps raw. so they just removed IBIS rather then putting a larger battery.
@@JaspreetSinghArtist some type of, I dunno, larger battery seems required lol. OR they just make some of those options not available on internal battery but AVAIALABLE when supplied with external power.
@@JaspreetSinghArtist yeah it wouldn’t bother me, if you are shooting 8k you are probably going to be setup and not requiring ibis or AF. The real benefit of 8k I can see is the 3d 180 VR lense.
Not that I’m in the market for any camera right now, but not having IBIS has always been a selling point for me. Whether it’s on a handheld rig, during a fast movement on a tripod, in something like a car rig, or even on a dolly track that isn’t perfectly smooth, the last thing I want to worry about as a cinematographer is the camera moving in a way that I can’t control. Add in the fact that the vast majority of cinema lenses - and in my case the vintage lenses I use as well - don’t communicate their focal length with the camera, and a floating sensor can quickly become a major hassle to deal with on set.
There we go, great to hear from someone who actively looks for cameras without IBIS. It’s great to have different tools for different customers doing different work
Carl
I know that for this particular kind of work IBIS is totally not necessary, but for those who are in between casual filmmaking and serious movie production, a camera with IBIS can always be turned into a camera without IBIS, but it doesn't work the other way around.
Quick and easy: If you're not "serious" into video and high value production, getting something that is apt at doing both things, giving you more versatility with whatever job you're taking on is a win. No IBIS cameras are a specialty, they're perfect for those specific jobs, clients or requirements.
@@HeathBlythe sadly you can't deactivate IBIS and Lens IS seperatly on the R5. So deactivating IBIS also deactivate Lens IS as far as I know.
To expand on the car mount IBIS issue is sensor rattle when the high frquency vibrations overwhelm the sensor damping, it causes a click. You get worse shake, jello and noise. IBIS is the worst thing for car shooting, and sadly very few mainstream cameras leave it out anymore and very few people understand, why its not always good. Also using a prime without lens IS is also far more stable than a zoom in cars. The lens IS and multiple gyro and elements cause vibration issues in car.
For quick %100 hand held work, IBIS is very useful. Anything that has to do with vehicles, rigging, crash cams then forget IBIS. They both have a place.
This is a fantastic comparison, but honestly the iFootage mounts stole the show for me. So friggin’ versatile!
I was quite surprised that canon removed the IBIS, but seeing this result I have to say we all overreacted a little bit haha. I mean it is so controversial: we buy a dedicated beast of cinema camera but want it with some sort of IBIS which reduces the image quality and introduces distracting artifacts. That is not what cinematography should be about! I do think it is better that the R5C comes without IBIS, because at this point the IBIS technology is not a professional solution.
Yes, I think that’s exactly where canon are coming from
Carl
I agree, and literally every movie ever made had no IBIS. Stabilization software has gotten really good, and gimbals are very affordable.
@@timelapsega Sony software is the best!
You hit the nail on the head Carl! Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages over one another. The type of shooter one is and what focal lengths one uses plus what comprises one is willing to put up with will determine one’s choice of camera! Ideally, one of each would be a perfect kit. I myself hate the corner wobble effect with extreme wide angle lens with IBIS and I do not like that floaty feel to the frame at the end of handheld moves. On the other hand, there are many circumstances where I am astonished at how brilliant IBIS performs especially hand-holding a longer focal length lens. 🙏🏾
Excellent work. No IBIS is superior to IBIS in that car rig video. Great finding. I am blown away. I do understand serious cinema work doesn't need IBIS. Digital IS is not too bad at all. Well, you choose the tool that fits your work flow.
The fact that the R5 is better in some situations shows that it is better to have it than not. That corner wobble can be largely cropped away. I would like to have the best of both world and be able to turn off IBIS without disabling lens stabilization
You can never truly lock down a sensor though if it is an IBIS sensor.
Carl
@@ProAVTV I didn't know that. Could you make a demonstration of the difference between an IBIS locked sensor and a non IBIS sensor?
@@ProAVTV Thanks Carl. I understand why Canon left IBIS off the R5 C and it will not prevent me from buying it. I just want to get as close I can to that with my R5 and R3. The IBIS is the only reason that I am keeping the R5.
I love this. Seeing the difference really helped me understand the pros and cons of IBIS. I primarily shoot on a Lumix GH5 and I love it’s IBIS however there are times when the side distortion is distracting. I’ve been looking into the C70 and R5c lately. This was a great comparison and different tests then I’ve seen.
Awesome!! Super helpful. This has made me completely rethink things. I’m gonna say better no IBIS as you could always use a gimbal or rig for steady shots guaranteed artifact free but no guarantee with IBIS of no artifact, not acceptable for client work. I say Canon made the right choice on this one as this is geared more towards serious production.
well, I'm mostly a photographer and I won't go without IBIS in 2022 .. as far as I know since my first PentaxK10, I could turn it off on demand.
With the 15-35mm, no sensor stabilization actually makes sense. You can still use the lens stabilization and there is no wobble effect. It's a bummer that you can't turn off the sensor stabilization individually on the R5 without turning off the lens stabilization. I hope they'll add this option in the future with a software update.
The absence of IBIS is fine for video, in fact I prefer it this way for the reasons you talked about in this video (which I experienced myself) but it’s a bummer for photography. And it’s meant to be a really good hybrid camera, not only a video camera. Even then I think I’d get it over the R5.
I appreciate your comparison. Nobody has done it yet I believe. But everybody seem to worry about IBIS for video when there are so many fancy cheap gimbals out there. Nobody compares IBIS for low light photography. That is when the IBIS is needed the most.
Thank you for showing this to the daft youtube crowd. Many people aren't working professionals and simply spend their time crying online about cameras nobody wants them to buy.
I still think that the Panasonic S1H has the best Full-Frame IBIS. We're about one generation away from amazing IBIS on Full-Frame cameras.
Canon is offering a lot of camera for the price here. However, It was a mistake for Canon to include Micro HDMI on the release of the R5 and R6. It is not a size issue either as Sony now has Full-Size HDMI on all of their latest mirrorless cameras. Canon also used Micro HDMI on the R3, which is a much larger camera.
So the question I have is this: Is Canon intentionally including Micro-HDMI on their mirrorless bodies to protect their Cinema line? C70, C300 Mark III, and C500 Mark II?
Is there a difference in performance?
Most real cinema cameras use sdi. Which the c70 doesnt have either. Thats the real cripple hammer.
Who knows! I certainly can’t speak for what goes on over at Canon HQ. All we can try and do is be objective and help customers make the right purchasing decisions. Keeping in mind that we serve a wide variety of different customers doing different work. So the right tool for some, will be the wrong tool for others.
Carl
Don't forget C700 (their flagship cinema camera)
@@pahwraith Physical performance yes. It's a super small plug and can get messed up rather easily. Much easier than with a solid full sized HDMI. Obviously SDI is even better.
Canon have a long history of protecting their different lines.. only the arrival of Sony kicked their asses out of there optical IS sellers confort zone.. IBIS is indeed not interesting for most video, but isn't R5c a photography camera as well ?
I’m glad you put the 24-70mm on the R5 due to hearing a lot of allegations over the last year that the 15-35mm lens is why the R5 wobbles. We clearly see wobbling on the 24-70mm here and it debunks that claim for me.
The architecture in England is so nice! It has so much more character than what I have here in California. Also, I shoot on the R5 for weddings and events for both photo and video. IBIS is an incredibly helpful feature for both but I do agree there are times where it's beneficial to have it deactivated. Hopefully on the next model, they develop a sensor lock to physically enable/disable the feature. Thank you for taking the time to do these tests!
Really great overview of what's really happening with IBIS for video. R5C it is!
Really surprised at that first, stationary, handheld shot of the house - the R5 C was a lot better than the R5. I know the digital IS works really well with those types of shots, as I tested it on the C500 Mk2 when it first came out. But I’ve never tried the same thing on a camera with IBIS, and would have assumed it would be even better, but clearly not.
I appreciate this review. I think the camera community or camera fans/enthusiasts, love to rush to judgement as soon as a new tool is released. And we’re still months away from the camera shipping. I always like the wit and see approach, but that’s just me. Thanks for another great video
I really don't see why IBIS was excluded when Canon offers a C70 with a fixed sensor. I really think this camera should have been what we all wanted the R5 to be - an outstanding photographic piece of equipment with great video for those shoots where a cinema camera isn't required. In my case, I have C70s for multi-cam shoots etc. but really wanted two R5Cs, so that I could use them for stills work. With lenses like Canon's 50mm RF f/1.2 there is no IS in the lens. It's a 45 megapixel sensor... some form of stabilisation is going to be preferable. I have an R6 for stills work, but the ability to have an R5 photo camera with unlimited recording and no overheating issues would have been enough. We wait for Canon's R1 and hope it has the best of both worlds. I really have no need for an R5C... you can get a C70 on a gimbal if required, and you could also mount one in a car... it's a bit smaller, but you pay in many ways for that portability: battery life, poorer AF, micro HDMI etc. I was particularly frustrated by its release since I would have been first in line if it was the R5 that didn't overheat. Instead it's more of an EOS RC than an R5C.
once again thanks ProAv for showing us why esp as AN FILM MAKER this is the better camera to go with if your photo first stick with the R5 my biggest issue is deciding if i want to keep my R5 instead of selling it but without a doubt im getting that R5c
This is only scratching the surface. We are also working on a video going through the main differences when using the R5c for video compared to the R5.
Carl
@@ProAVTV I can’t wait to see it. really really looking forward to it
I like having two cameras, one as my main camera (C70) without ibis for my A camera and a second camera (GH6) with ibis for quick b-roll shots where I haven’t got time to rig it as much. Best of both worlds
this is exaclty what i was looking for. I cant thank you enough for the information provided here.
If you are 80% photographer and occasionally you record videos, the R5 is your camera, ibis, and 14-bit depth (on stills) only available in the R5, the R5C doesn't have ibis and on stills, bit depth drops at 10-bit. Serious professional photographers can't be with 10-bit pictures instead 14 bit on the R5. Now, if you are 80% videographer and occasionally you shoot photos then the R5C is your camera, you don't need ibis, a serious videographer doesn't use ibis and you are fine with 10bit depth on stills. Both camera record 12-bit videos but only 1 have 14-bit depth on photos, so guys... that's depends on you deciding between the R5 (that have overheating issues in some recording modes) or the R5C that doesn't overhead at all but have taken away important things from the photography like ibis and reducing 14 bit to 10 in photography.
Thank you for sharing. How does the R5C and R5 compare hand holding long lenses. My thoughts are the R5C is a parts bin camera because Canon did not want to completely re-engineer the R5...they already have too much on their plate supporting R3 pre-orders, finalizing R1 production, and perhaps the R7. Otherwise, there is no question a "New" R5C would have a heat-sink with sufficient processing power for IBIS and the ability to use non-cine lenses for 8K raw (without an external power source). The overpriced A1 and the #1 Camera Z9 seem to be have similar R5C capability without IBIS/Power/Cine lens restrictions...no?
Did you try the car test with IBIS disabled in the R5? I'd be curious how well it performs when that system isn't running, compared to the R5C.
Was thinking the same. Thank you for the question!
I didn’t, I now regret that though!
Didn’t think of it at the time and this was made very quickly while we had access to the camera. Apologies
Carl
@@ProAVTV That's too bad. It's one of the few times that there are two similarly sized cameras out with the same sensor and one has IBIS and the other doesn't. I remember seeing a comparison video with the GH5 and the GH5s but that obviously wasn't an apples-to-apples comparison, and having the FX3 against the FX6 in this scenario would perhaps be unfair due to the different sizes of the camera bodies. Would certainly appreciate a video on this sometime if you have the opportunity!
What would that prove? You already know what it would look like, video without stabilization. The point is that a sensor mechanically moving that is attached to a moving vehicle in commercial work is undesirable.
@@ProAVTV Not necessary. Will merely show the video without the overcompensation of the mechanical IBIS movement. We already know what it will look like. Better without the IBIS. Its a cinema camera. You need IBIS, grab another camera.
Smart from canon , they have a good point actually ! … Thanks man, great video !
I really understand now how IBS could affect some real situations,..
back on 2017 when i got my 1dxm2 I didn’t know that some cameras has sensor IBS to be honest!
The Idxm2 doesn’t have it, I kept using it without, but the IBS that the lens has helped.
Life was good, normal, natural and great, after that I knew that some camera they do have an image sensor stabilization 😂♥️
lot of producers of VR adult content are looking forward to mounting the 5.2mm RF lens for adult VR content. Can you do a demo of this?
🤣 crying!!
I would really like to see this same test throwing an S1H and A7siii or FX3 into the mix
We love what the A7S III with stabilization gave to the image, mounted to a vehicle. It has a mild organic feel in the movement. th-cam.com/video/R1IUz4NtdN4/w-d-xo.html
IBIS with the ability to lock the sensor in position when IBIS isn’t desirable would be the real MVP.
Im hoping a bunch of R5’s show up heavily discounted so I can pick one up for photography👍
I totally agree. I understand why it was removed. It was the same thing with the gh5 and the gh5s. The IBIS was removed for the same reason. I used to own a panasonic g85. It has similar IBIS as the GH5 and I couldn't stand it. If I used adapted lenses with IS in them, my shot would shake even when I was standing still.
Fantastic video 💚
Would love some even more tests really going in depth on ibis vs no ibis
Glad it was helpful!
Carl
how you get the canon r5c ?
Wow I’m glad i watched this. I was about to buy an r5 now that the new prices have come down but now after seeing that crazy wobble I think the r5c is the way to go! The wobble is so obvious its terrible.
At 7:25 in the grass or at 7:45 on the bright part of the chair, I have the feeling that the dynamic range is way better on the R5 C, have you noticed a difference in DR or is it just because the bodies are placed 30cm beside and the sun just reflected much more from the chair and the grass to the R5 than to the R5 C. If not it could be a dramatical improvement in DR, but it is the first video where I can see such a difference, ok maybe the dark parts are also a tick brighter on the R5, but overall the R5C seems to have a better DR to my eyes in this side by side videos.
This is assuming exposure was the same. But yes, it does look like the DR on the R5C is better. If that turns out to be true from extensive testing, I will have no choice but to pick it up because DR in video is the most important for me. It's why I got my R5 because the DR in the 5DIV was terrible.
I would want R5c to add to my R6 (making R6 backup photo and bcam for video), making R5 my primary photo (high mpx) and video camera. I never use IBIS for video but not having IBIS in my primary photo camera is a dealbreaker. (And with R6 and R5C combo would make me have to always choose between high mpx or ibis, which is stupid.)
R5 is not an option as it still has 30 min rec limit etc, and wouldnt pass for my primary video cam.
same here .. I could not believe while reading about R5c that they just plainly took it away .. I went from very interested into replacing my setup for it to completely off.
Yes, same here! I even have the money to spend, but literally won’t buy it. Ofcourse if I would own a R5 instead of R6, i could easily buy an R5c, as I would already own a high mpx ibis camera, but i don’t.
All i want is a two camera setup: one hybrid hmpx ibis camera and second great hybrid camera with no record limit. As R6 is neither, i need a second cam that is both. Hopefully R1 will deliver.
Thanks Carl! I think if you want to look at IBIS done properly, the Panasonic line is the one you might want to look at for comparison. The S1H and R5C are very different beasts, and absence of IBIS doesn't mean the end of the world (end of Gimbal needs, yes.. in my case with the Panasonic and 24-105 L Mount lens at least). Would love to see more stuff coming up from ProAV TV with R5C and definitely, more footage :)
Yup. -Corner wobble at wide is an Achilles heel for the R5
I absolutely appreciate that you created this video. I was asking myself the same question - having the EOS R and planning to upgrade to the R5 C later this year. This proves to me that the missing IBIS is not the issue.
A new question though: could you compare the autofocus in video between the R5 and the R5 C? I just saw that they are different?
Exactly...and this is worrying me and may cause me to cancel my preorder. I LOVE the AF on the R5. It is so much better than the C70, but it appears the R5c has the same AF system as the C70 when shooting video. Canon's website shows this for AF when comparing R5, R5c and C70: R5: DAF (1053 points) | R5c: DAF (121 points) | C70: DAF (121 points). No IBIS was not a dealer killer for me due to mainly what this video was showing. However, when throwing this on a gimbal, having amazing AF is HUGE! I am NOT impressed with the C70's AF so the R5c is going to be the same thing! VERY disappointing!
Once you get used to IBIS and switch to non IBIS camera, then you will realize the importance.
@@pbfilms6356 I have one idea where this difference may come from. Could it be that Canon has the AF version II in the Photo OperatingSystem but not in the Cinema OS? Could it be that they add this through firmware upgrades?
At least the indicator that the focus system is similar to the C70 could be an indicator for this OS based difference rather than a mechanical one?
@@pbfilms6356 yes, i am a one man shooter and the talent. I have a EOS R currently and was looking at the C70, the AF put me off.
People who use hybrid cameras want a run and gun, cinema camera, not a full blown menu cinema camera, these generally need to be built into a rig, yes they give better footage but with a bigger team and bigger rig.
This is not what most people wanted the R5c to be.
All they wanted was a hybrid camera, with a fan and unlimited record time in 4k HQ.
Bingo Canon, are you listening?
Great video! You made me melt with that car mount thing!!!! Wow
Thanks for the video, Carl. Much appreciated. I shoot with panasonic FF cameras and I actually own two Canon EF lenses (16-35 f/4 L and EF-S 10-18 IS) for the lens stabilization, since the Panasonic Lumix 16-35 f/4 doesn't have stabilization built in, and the corner wobble in the Panasonic FF bodies is nuts. Using lenses with lens stabilization helps to reduce it quite a bit (but sadly won't eliminate it 100%).
thanks so much! great comparison! I have both cameras, in love with the 2 of them, even though the 5rC consumes so much battery, haha. Cheers!
*Your description and analysis of the end results are what surprise me. The steadier image (IBIS R5) on the building distracts you ? Steadier images distract you ? The results straight out of the camera clearly demonstrate the R5 with IBIS is much superior and more agreeable to the eye than the R5c's electronic image stabilization. Even on a Cinema production camera, IBIS is always a clear advantage over not having it. P.S.: The electronic stabilization of the R5c is actually making the image "twitch" intermittently.*
Great comparison, very eye opening when it really comes down to it!!
Thanks! Glad it was useful
Carl
Thank you carl and Thank you canon for not destroying the r5c, please vlog or shoot weddings with something else ppl
In fairness, the digital IS gives the footage a 1.4x crop on its strongest setting, correct? That could make a big difference as well and shouldn't be overlooked in deciding which stabilization flavor is "best." I bet you could crop out the corner wobble and still end up with a wider frame than a 1.4 crop.
Interesting comment. For run and gun IBIS is still overall better. Wobbles to me are preferred over jitters.
All this proves is that canon should have given the option to have either electronic, electronic enhanced, lens, sensor or a combination of the group. Canon software crippling & fixing the issues w software is something they should fix not replace w new bodies
Do you also recommend managing those 2 bodies for video?
Would love to see a comparison between cinema AF on canon R5c vs standard R5. I have c70 and R5 and I know there is a big difference however. It sure if the new processor on the R5c would give somewhat of an advantage!
Yes, we will tackle testing the AF once we get access to a camera again. It’s not quite as simple as testing IS though!
Carl
I guess HDMI won't really matter with R5C, because people shouldn't buy it because of the Bad HDMI port.
I think the processor is struggling and also the power supply in this camera, you can't shoot 8k 60, without external power and i do know when your battery is low it cripples it in photos.
People say 40min in video, battery is flat.
Instead of taking the entire feature away, you could've just given us an additional menu option to disable IS in the Camera, if we wanted to. IBIS is a big deal to me. Is that too hard for Canon? I love their products, but they surprised me in a bad way this time.
achieving IBIS is a big deal to them.
so next model
they will figure out how to handle IBIS,....they are all spent working on IBIS alone.
You can’t really. It would need mechanical pins to really lock it down. Or really strong magnets.
Whoever pays for such an amazing camera with all the additional things needed to make it work, you can defo get a gimbal to have a smooth video. IBIS sadly imports a ton of artifacts by wobbling and vibrating at the slightest bump.
Great test. I have the C70 and the RF lens coupled with the EIS is actually pretty damn good. Would the same rf lens on the 5C give the same results? As in, is the EIS on the r 5C the same as the one on the C70??
what lavalier were you using outside
Very interesting... Ok, now I'm sold on the R5C...
First of all great and very informative video with a real life scenario👍
If you from time to time work with 3D tracking and other FX that demands that the pixels stay in place any type of IS is a no go.
The Canon R5C is a pro camera not a vlog and the ability to sync via timecode is imo one of the top selling features on this camera.
it's definitevely not a pro camera for photography, that's the problem .. offering like any IBIS out there an off status would have been muuuuch more the way to go. I was interested into this camera, I'm not at all anymore just from that.
I don't understand why not implement the IBIS in the R5c as well. Especially if one can simply turn it off when not needed (like when mounted in the car, or on a tripod). I'm sure Canon could have added IBIS, and C-Log2 for that matter, in the R5c - making it an even more wonderful film-making tool. Well, hoping to having the R5c mk2 next year...
I can tell that you care, my guy. Good shit
Excellent video Carl, and thanks so much for your efforts…
No problem, thank you for watching!
Carl
Great information, thanks for this video! Very helpful. Does the R5c offer digital IS during RAW recording? I'm still disappointed Canon dropped such a great feature. For the niche audience that does car rigs or exclusively gimbal work, the C70 is already available. It just seems there's a much bigger audience who own prime or Cine lenses without stabilization...or telephoto lenses... that really benefit from in-body IBIS. And you can shut it off when you don't need it (for Tripod, wide angles, etc). I'm not sure I follow Canon's logic.
EIS bump can be tolerable if shutter speed/angle is enough fast and proper stabilization method used during post production. however, IBIS wobbling cannot be saved in most cases. so for video, I think only EIS option is not bad... in this case.
Nice comparison! Thank you!
I'd appreciate it for some insights, thanks! I'm ready to pull the triigger on one of these hybrid cameras. Coming from a Canon 80D and BMPCC6K. I'm a video first user, so the R5C is something that intrigues me right away with the cinema OS. I'm aware of the battery issues and I feel like I could adapt to that especially coming from the Blackmagic but at the same time, I don't want another rig setup. For the R5, is it true that you can't just use the lens IS by itself? I don't care for IBIS espcially if it crops in on the image which defeats the purpose of the full frame sensor IMO. I love that they both have 45MP for stills. Thank you.
a rare video of carl standing up
Well that makes me sound very lazy! 😂
Carl
The R5 C seems the have slightly better dynamic range or I must be imagining things. Anyway, great video :)
Enlightening tests.
Great piece thank you. I particularly appreciate the action cam from the vehicle. Do you think the R5C is suitable for other action, such as sports?
Great information. Thank you.
Great work. Any way you could drop a link to that duel camera plate? Please and thank you.
As far as cooling the R5C must have had a talk with the Panasonic S1H, and as far as stabilization I rock my cameras on gimbals👍🏽😁
I think the micro-HDMI is the bigger problem here not the lack of IBIS. If you want smooth footage you are going to use a stabilizer wether you have IBIS in body or not. It's a moot point. Now, not having full sized HDMI on a $4.5K "cinema" camera is just stupid. Major cripple/oversight. Overall the R5C is a nice camera from Canon. Can't wait to see what they do with this form factor in the future. I'll probably be picking an R5C up later this year.
It's more of an annoyance than a "cripple." It has so many great internal recording options, I dont think there is an external format or framerate we lost out on because they went with mini-hdmi over full size. A7S3 is the only cam I've had that had full size, the 5 cams before that were mini, the cables can break here and there but they're cheap. Either way seems like a small sacrifice to get full frame 8k60 raw internally. Up until now the only way to get that was buying a RED with a Helium sensor, which you maybe could find a setup with enough accessories to shoot for $20k used, and it's not full frame.
If you do this test with the IS off on the lens of the r5 and turn on the digital is (r5 also has it) you get rid of the wooble effect and get a much much usable footage. That would be a much fair comparison.
actually you can't close IBIS and use digital sensor in same time. once you closed the IBIS the0 Digital IS disabled
@@faisalkaabii I didn't say ibis. I said IS on the lens.
@@tintbustersprayer when you turn lens IS off all stabilizations is off IBIS & Digital IS
@@faisalkaabii no sir. When you switch off the is button on the lens itself ibis and digital is keep working.
@@tintbustersprayer, yeah it seems there’s a lot of confusion around this.
I would summarize:
- lens IS (can turn on or off if available) is OIS (optical image stabilization) and the lens floats, constantly adjusting to stabilize and removing hand held shake or micro jitters
- camera IBIS (short for in body IS), sensor shifts stabilization where sensor moves and the body doesn’t. For wide angle, seems to wobble on the edges
- digital IS, this is stabilized through software but requires cropping
Looks like only sensor shift stabilization or IBIS cannot be turned off. The other two can (OIS and digital IS).
I like how Sony is implementing OIS + digital IS (they call it “active IS”) but when both turned off, you can use gyro stabilization (big crop but can adjust it. Cons are: 1) no motion blur as you need to crank up the shutter speed and 2) need an extra step in post) and the footage looks natural and stabilization looks good.
I guess a user stabilization guide would be helpful like:
Stills use cases:
- on/off lens OIS
- camera IBIS
- digital IS (with crop)
Videos/Cinema use cases:
- on/off lens OIS
- no camera IBIS (replace with gimbal, steady cam, tripod, jib, slider, or some robotic arm/rig)
- digital IS (with crop)
Other factors to consider is if it impacts overheating and AF (auto focus) system.
I feel like, most of us that are gonna get it, even maybe moving across from other systems, back to Canon - don't have RF glass, so it's EF, with adaptor, handheld with all the potential additional wobble of adaptors. My 24-70 isnt IS, don't think I even have any full frame glass with IS thinking about it! So, the comparison in some respects is lost on me. I also don't think the R5 had good IBIS, was always wobbly for me, found myself cropping in post to hide the wobbles, might have been because non-IS EF glass and maybe thinking about it - they removed it from R5C because it still needs some work. Agreed R5C better in car, I think I'm on the side though of not having it now after my initial knee jerk reaction! Love the GH5 IBIS, it makes my life so simple and I attribute it to the majority of my shots and footage looking so great in a pinch. Not having it in probably my next camera was disappointing... initially! Feeling ok about it, just waiting to see if Panny do any magic with the GH6 before I pull this hair trigger of mine 🤣
Thank you🙌
This was really fun! thanks. :)
Great test. Can't you just turn the IBIS off in the R5 though when you have sufficient mechanical stabilization? Does the R5 have the digital option with a minor crop?
I think no one would argue that on a quality stabilized rig or gimbal you'd want the extra stabilization from IBIS. It will just make stuff look weirder.
I just think it's better to have the option and turn it off than to not have the option at all, especially since the R5C is also a stills camera.
But looking at IBIS as a video only tool , this is a hybrid camera, and not having IBIS for the photography side kills my interest as someone still looking for the best hybrid. Sticking with my Sony A1 for now.
Thank you! GREAT video! Did you happen to test the AF in both cameras? There's a rumor going around that is saying the R5c and R5 have the same AF system for stills mode (Dual Pixel CMOS AF II) but the R5c uses the same AF system as the C70 when in video mode (Dual Pixel CMOS AF with iTR AF X) while the R5 uses Dual Pixel CMOS AF II in video mode. I'm REALLY hoping that is not the case as the R5 has MUCH better AF than the C70 so I'll be massively disappointed if the R5c doesn't have Dual Pixel CMOS AF II in video mode as well.
It doesn't, ot has been confirmed, same as C70.
This is the biggest disappointment for me. I am the talent and the shooter in most cases, so pulling focus like on a serious cinema camera is out of the question.
I do think Canon lost the plot here. People still wanted a hybrid camera just with a fan and no record limit. Done.
Not two cameras with a fully blown cinema menu.
@@waynosfotos Agreed with your comment about Canon losing the plot. They solve the heating problem with a fan and tried to make it a true cinema camera with the "cinema" mode, however, doesn't add three key features that cinema camera users use every day...build in NDs, XLR (sure, you can add a $500 accessory to add that) and full size HDMI port. To hinder it even more, they remove IBIS (which I don't care about for video) which does hurt the photo capabilities of the camera when compared to other cameras and downgrade the AF system from the original R5 when shooting video. I get you can't shove EVERYTHING a C70 has into an "R5 sized" body. So...like you said, for us hybrid shooters, all we were looking for is a solve for the heating issue, no record limit and full sized HDMI port. The fact that the AF is the same as the C70, I may cancel my preorder. :-(
Man I forgot how bad the wobble in the edges of the frame looks with wider lenses on the R5, yeah I dont think I would have used that anyways.
Thank you for your video!
I want to switch cameras but one of the most important things that catch my attention is the difference in the color.
Do you have the same White Balance and the same settings and you have such different results?
The r5 is way better as a color result comparing the r5c.
Again thank you so much. I would appreciate any clarification on this.
I do hope there will be an R5 firmware update where u can opt for digital when you want or IBIS when u want, I think I should be possible cos even the EOS R had a pretty Ok Digital stabilisation
nice video,thanks..is possible too recommend a picture profile for R5C ? i not use slog because is difficult too edit a wedding..tx..posible a WDR with same modification in gama color?
I'm a bit confused, can you not just turn the IBIS off on the R5 when you need to use it on a car rig?! Effectively making it the same as the R5C, zero internal stabilisation!? 🤔
Even if IBIS is turned off, it isn’t possible to have the sensor locked down 100%, making it prone to vibrations in certain situations.
Very interesting review especially the in-car comparison . Having owned the R5 for just three months would I still make the same purchasing decision ? Well here in NZ the R5C is another 1400 of your British pounds more than the R5 so I think I’ll be hanging onto it for a while yet it is just such a joy to use as a retired non commercial hybrid shooter. On the other hand I can see for some users how an upgrade would be totally worthwhile. For me I think 1400 pounds would buy a lot of gimbal :) Cheers from NZ
This is why I preferred non-IBS cameras.
IBIS for me is an overhyped feature that makes the camera more expensive.
Yeah IBIS is good for still photography but why pay for a feature that cannot be used fully.
As for photography how is the R5C digital IS for shooting wildlife like birds handheld? My R5 is incredible at handheld for this.
Yeah I think it proves that IBIS isn't really a replacement for gimbals and other supports, so if your going to stabilise it anyway, then it's not all that important. The only thing I feel is a shame about it going on the R5 is that we don't have it in photo mode- which is where I find IBIS is really useful.
Agreed, it’s the main lacking feature in the stills side of the camera
Carl
In EOS R5C video shooting mode,
Can I turn off the body digital IS and film using only the lens IS?
Yes absolutely
Carl
Jewel camera mount
The R5C seems to have more latitude than the R5 - most clearly seen in the car test shots
I think, note think, don't really know...
IBIS really cant handle the g-forces in a full frame camera, mounted in a car or a boat.
And even if you turn the system off, the sensor is still "loose inside the body" held up by electronics, and not screws. (could probably get damaged as well)
With a sturdy robust mount, like you had, it gets even worse since it translates the bumps more direct.
Sidenote, My small sensor RX100 stability in the car is way better than my A7 and I can correlate that to M4/3 and APSc cameras as well.
High end video productions:
Micro HDMI and photo camera battles.
Any HDMI isn’t good enough for high end productions, and this isn’t an A camera for them. It’s a speciality camera for rigging in small places like this car example.
Carl
@@ProAVTV No it’s not. That’s what the Komodo or BG1H is for. This would be if done right a documentary camera for stills and video. Those people might actually be using HDMI. There is no point in shooting 8K on a car mount, for anything. In fact it’s counterproductive since the readout is slower, so you’ll still have rolling shutter artifacts.
Can we please stop pushing 8K for anything other science or documentary work. This gross miss understanding of how resolution, scaling, and viewing distances works is getting ridiculous. Controlled shooting doesn’t need 8K. There’s barely a reason to crop in far enough for 6K. And for those rare occasions that controlled shooting could maybe use resolutions above 4K it would most likely also benefit from SDI or at least a full sized HDMI. Canon putting a micro HDMI in a $4K+ camera is like Samsung making a phone with a micro USB port in 2022. It’s just not acceptable. No matter what the camera might be “intended” for.
Which camera would be best for occasional photography, and for shooting videos?
S1H is a Netflix cinema camera and yet it has IBIS. Would turning off IBIS achieve the similar result as without IBIS?