TUNDRA BRAKE UPGRADE For TOYOTA 4Runner (96-02) TBU
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ธ.ค. 2016
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*PARTS AND HELPUL TOOLS*
Please see pinned comment for links.
3rd Gen 4runners are notorious for developing a front end shake while braking which will also cause the steering wheel to shimmy back and forth. What causes this shimmy while braking? Some people think the rotors are actually warping due to the heat. Some people believe it’s due to uneven brake pad deposits on the rotor causing the braking problem. From my own research, I tend to believe the uneven brake pad deposits on the rotors are the problem. This can happen after some hard braking, like coming down a steep grade, and then you come to a stop. With the rotors really hot, the brake pads can leave extra deposits onto the rotor. With the uneven deposits on the rotor, now the rotor is sort of “warped” because the braking surface is uneven. To correct this, you either buy new rotors or get your rotors resurfaced at a machine shop or auto shop. Will the TBU stop this situation from happening? No, it can still happen but I think it will be less likely because you now have bigger rotors that dissipates more heat and won’t get as hot under hard braking situations.
So what’s the real advantage to the TBU?
Answer: Increased Stopping Power.
Many in the 3rd Gen 4runner world believe the caliper and rotor setup for these trucks is under-powered especially if you carry lots of gear or tow.
The upgrade to the Tundra caliper and rotor gives you two distinct upgrades:
#1 - The rotor is much thicker which will allow it to dissipate much more heat and reduce brake fade. This will be most evident if you regularly drive down steep grades or tow. Even though you are utilizing engine braking by using lower gears, you still have to use the brakes, and on a long descent, your brakes are going to heat up. If they get hot enough, they will start to fade.
#2 - The caliper is larger with a higher fluid capacity and accepts a larger brake pad so you get increased stopping power.
*Tundra Caliper Choices*
13WL - 231mm Caliper
13WE - 199mm Caliper
*Benefits of Each*
The 231mm benefit over the 199mm is you have a larger fluid capacity and you have a larger brake pad for increased stopping power.
The 199mm benefit over the 231mm is it will fit with all the stock 16” rims, not just some of them. The 199mm setup is still superior to the stock setup because the caliper is a little bigger than stock and it still uses the same thicker rotor for greater heat dissipation.
*Important Considerations*
Wheel clearance with the 231mm option. Only certain stock wheels will fit over the caliper. If you don’t want to buy different wheels, you are faced with either grinding down the inside of the rim to make it fit or grinding down the caliper. Neither of those choices sound great to me. If you are wondering which stock 16” wheels fit over the 231mm calipers, I’ll provide a link to an excellent write-up for this modification that covers the wheels that will work without any grinding and basically everything you would ever want to know about this repair. I’ll put the link here and in the video description.
www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen...
To address the wheel fitment issue, some people chose to run spacers. I wouldn’t recommend this route and I’ll provide a link to a video done by “Engineering Explained” that goes into great detail about the issues surrounding running wheel spacers. Here’s the link and I’ll also put this link in the video description as well:
• Wheel Spacers & Adapte...
Do you have a spare tire that will fit over the 231mm caliper? If not, you’ll be forced to change 2 tires if you get a front tire flat. You’ll have to take one of the rear tires off and move it to the front, and then put the spare on the rear.
**We did this on a 2002 3rd Gen 4runner. If you have a 2001 or 2002, you need to have the ignition key in the "on" position to power up the brake booster when bleeding the brakes.
*After You're Done with the Job*
Bedding in the brakes - There’s a procedure some people chose to do to sort of “break-in” the rotors. I’m not going to describe this procedure because you can read up on it in that write-up I provided a link to. Is this a necessary step with new brakes? I don’t think so but you can do your own research and determine if it’s the right course for you.
When searching for parts for this job, use the following Tundra years and model:
For 199mm Calipers use a 2001 Toyota Tundra 4x4 V-8
For 231mm Calipers use a 2005 Toyota Tundra 4x4 V-8
Many people who do this job compromise in the caliper department. They will buy Toyota rotors, pads and shim kit but opt to save money and buy aftermarket calipers from an auto parts store like Napa.
*Torque Specs*
Wheel Lug Nuts - 85 ft-lbf
Caliper Bolts - 90 ft-lbf
*PLEASE READ THIS COMMENT AND THE VIDEO DESCRIPTION FOR HELPFUL INFORMATION*
**This mod can also be done on a 1st Gen Tacoma (1995-2004). The only difference is you need to change the front brake lines for the mod to work. This kit from LCE Performance is nice way to go: www.lceperformance.com/Stainless-Brake-Line-Kit-Tacom-To-Tundra-Upgrade-p/1055114.htm
**PARTS**
*BRAKE CALIPERS* - If you want Toyota OEM calipers, we suggest you get some used ones whether you find them for sale online from somewhere like Ebay or Craigslist or you go to a auto wreckers like PickNPUll and you grab a used set of a wrecked Tundra or Sequoia. Brand new OEM Calipers are very expensive so we don't recommend going that route.
*ROTORS* - It's ok to go aftermarket here but we do prefer OEM.. Toyota Rotors #43512-0C011 amzn.to/2rw1Dgt
*PADS* - It's also ok to go aftermarket here too but we prefer OEM. Toyota Pads (for 231mm calipers only) #04465-35290 amzn.to/33sAs3a
*SHIM KIT* - with OEM pads, we recommend using the anti-squeal shim kit. Toyota Shim Kit #04945-35120 amzn.to/33rr3ZC
*DOT 3 BRAKE FLUID* amzn.to/33ZK8TF
*BRAKE CLEANER* amzn.to/2KuJ6Yw
*BLACK SPRAY PAINT* - amzn.to/2Doq5CY
*BRAKE CALIPER GREASE* amzn.to/2OMFPoG
**HELPFUL TOOLS**
*If you're looking for other tools not used in this video, check out Timmy's Master Tool List.*
www.amazon.com/shop/timmythetoolman?isPublicView=true
*6 TON JACK STANDS* amzn.to/2MM91w6
*HEAVY DUTY RUBBER WHEEL CHOCKS* amzn.to/2mttRWp
*DEWALT 1/2" DRIVE IMPACT GUN* amzn.to/2M2Y9J1
*DEWALT BATTERIES* amzn.to/2urcx59
*DEWALT BATTERY CHARGER* amzn.to/2Ud8RlY
*SMALL SIZE MAGNETIC PARTS TRAY* (Good for holding lug nuts or smaller fasteners/parts) amzn.to/2m6kQ5y
*FLEX HEAD FLARE NUT WRENCH SET* amzn.to/32GoIdy
*SILICONE PLUG KIT* amzn.to/34Joap7
*VACUUM CAP KIT* - option to silicone plug. A 7/32” vacuum cap fits nicely over the flared brake tubing end. amzn.to/31hXY2G
*1/2” DRIVE BREAKER BAR* - 18” Long amzn.to/2O7HpCo
*1/2" DRIVE FLEX HEAD GEARWRENCH RATCHET* amzn.to/2Wnbq2r
*1/2” DRIVE 6-POINT STANDARD METRIC SOCKET SET* amzn.to/35dKQwW
*PLASTIC MALLET* amzn.to/2CCOqVP
*RED PAINT PEN* amzn.to/34ngQid
*DREMEL TOOL KIT* amzn.to/2DcQHqG
*STRAIGHT NOSE NEEDLE NOSE PLIERS* amzn.to/2pQ6yIa
*CDI 1/2" DRIVE FOOT POUND TORQUE WRENCH* amzn.to/2UPhyjK
*CDI 3/8" DRIVE FOOT POUND TORQUE WRENCH* amzn.to/2U2vUA4
*OFFSET BOXEND WRENCH SET* - Great for turning brake bleeders. The offset gets the wrench away from the tire. amzn.to/2sei01t
**As Ebay Partner Network members, we earn commissions from qualifying purchases.
**As Amazon Associates we earn from qualifying purchases.
If upgrading stainless steel brake lines do you use 3rd gen lines or tundra lines
@@chasing_bends Get lines meant for your 3rd Gen 4runner.
Hi question 13WL calipers or 13WE
Will work with same size off rotors correct? As long I have the tundra rotors I can use both sizes of calipers right
@@jonathanornelas9238 Yes, both calipers use the same size Tundra rotors.
@@TimmyTheToolman thanks buddy
Thank you Timmy and Sean! Greetings from Ontario. I've done so many repairs and upgrades to my 3rd gen that I wouldn't even try if it weren't for your channel! Just did this upgrade today. You guys have saved me a boatload of money and I have learned lots! Stay safe and wrench on dudes!
Hey there my Canadian Brother, we're stoked to hear that our videos have inspired you to take on jobs that you wouldn't have otherwise done without our tutorials to follow. This is great to hear. Doing your own wrenching does save you a ton of money on expensive labor costs at shops as you have found out. Thanks for taking the time to share this with us. We appreciate it! Happy Wrenching Ehh!
I'm glad that you cover everything in detail. Your even transparent about possible mishaps, or mistakes with certain senarios on these procedures! Thank you Tim, and Happy Holidays! 👍
We're glad you like the video and appreciate us sharing the mishaps and mistakes that we come across when wrenching on these rigs. You're very welcome and Happy Holidays back at ya.
I completed this upgrade two years ago on my 04 Tacoma. What a game changer. 33's on 17s stops so much better. Thank you for your channel and service Timmy!!!!
You're welcome Robin. Thanks for taking the time to comment.
Did you use the 199 or 231?
Keep up the good work! The added “mmkay” is fantastic and all the extra goodies! Great channel, it’s nice to see people keeping these older Toyota’s alive and well!
Thanks Loyd. Glad you like our channel and we appreciate you taking the time to comment. Keeping these rigs well-maintained and performing sic mods on them has been lots of fun so we're going to keep on keeping on. Happy Wrenching!
thank you for this video!! Did this last weekend and the hardest part was bleeding the brakes.
You're welcome. Glad the job went well for you.
I friggin love this channel
WITH Timmy Well Thanks! Sean and I would have been happy with "like" but Love is even better. Happy Wrenching and welcome to our channel.
Thanks a Ton Tim!
I did the upgrade to my 2002 4Runner Limited. I've had trouble with shimmy for a long time, probably replaced the rotors 2 or 3 times. I live in Colorado and the few trips I made coming down the canyons seemed to cause the issue very soon after replacing. I was very careful on the later ones to be sure I wasn't riding the brakes. I'd downshift, click the over drive, still the wobble returned. It was unsafe sometimes too, coming down Rabbit Ears Pass near Steamboat the whole car was jumping all over the place and no I wasn't racing down. I seriously thought I might have to ditch!
In desperation I searched and found a few leads that took me to this video. Its the best out there for sure. I can't thank Tim and his crew enough. (Post a link and I'll paypal you a pizza and beer or something! I'm no mechanic, but this video got me over the brink to try doing it.)
I used stock Toyota pads, rotors and shims, I used Checker or someone like that's calipers. I went for the bigger WL calipers. The hardest part of the whole job is trimming the dust shield and getting the brake line seated again. The difference is AMAZING and if you're on the fence at all, just do it. It gave me confidence in my rig again.
On whether its dust build up or warped rotors, I have my old rotors and been meaning to drop them off at a brakes plus to see if they can see a warp.
Thanks again Tim!
You're welcome Chuck. Glad this upgrade gave you more confidence driving your rig down mountain passes. I'm also stoked to hear it was our video that gave you the confidence to tackle this job.
I've been to Colorado many times mountain biking and maybe I'll get out to your area of Colorado one day. I've ridden in Grand Junction, Crested Butte, Gunnison, Durango, Vail, Boulder, Winter Park, Telluride and Salida.
Thanks for taking the time to comment and share your success story with this upgrade. Happy Wrenching Chuck!
This channel really has helped me progress with my 4Runner. Thank you guys so much for all of your videos!
That's great to hear Seth. You're very welcome.
Dude. You've got awesome video's. Most every detail articulated & very well. 👍
Thanks! It Sean's and my goal to give the most accurate and clear information in our videos so people have the best chance at being successful with a repair or modification. Thanks for taking the time to give us feedback.
This is awesome, tim. Keep up the great work!
Thanks Noah.
You responded to every question on this video. Wow that takes tremendous effort. Subbed.
Thanks for noticing Tyler. We try our best to answer every question and acknowledge every comment. Our channel isn't so big that we can't provide this level of service to our subscribers and viewers. Some comments do squeak by us, but we do get back to most people in a short amount of time. Welcome to our channel. Happy Wrenching!
Thank you for taking the time to include the written detailed information regarding the fitment of the parts and more detailed information.
No problem Enrique. You're very welcome.
Mkay
Awesome video man! Now I’m less stressed to do it on my rig lol. I was kinda skeptical but feel much better now after watching your video thanks Timmy!!!
Thanks Luis and you're welcome. What you're going to find as you turn more wrenches is auto mechanics really isn't that hard. If you have the Right Information, Right Tools and Right Level of Patience, you can do most of your own automotive work. There are still specialty jobs that are better left to the professionals like an engine rebuild, but for the most part, you can do your own work and be quite successful at it. Good luck with the TBU and Happy Wrenching!
Timmy you’re the freaking man for making this video! Definitely gives me more confidence know what to do now. I imagine you continue pumping the brakes until you don’t see anymore air pockets in the line?
Glad you appreciate the video Terry. Good to know our video is giving you the confidence to do this job. Check out our brake bleeding video for more into on how to bleed brakes. th-cam.com/video/rnyK3V-OGn4/w-d-xo.html
I did this upgrade and never had any rotor warping after, the stock 4runner kept warping
Thanks for this information. I've heard the same thing from my buddy Sean and is one of significant benefits of this upgrade.
Really?
My first gen brakes keep getting screwed. I'm a conservative braker too.
@@TimmyTheToolman Hey Tim. I just saw a video where a guy upgraded his rear brake cylinder from a 15/16, to a 1" made for a Tundra. I had never heard of this, and he was clear not to do it without upgrading the Front's first, for safety reasons. This seems like overkill to me, but maybe has some applications. Maybe for offroading applications, simpler than a swap to rear disks, and you keep the parking brake... Any thoughts on this? th-cam.com/video/1t7Lxdsp7k8/w-d-xo.html
@@ponyboyack00 This is the first I've heard of this. I would never bother with a rear disk conversion because the benefits are minimal for a fair amount of work. With the TBU, your brake pedal ends up traveling a bit further because you put on bigger calipers that require more brake fluid but use the same master cylinder. If you do what this guy suggests, I would expect you'd get further brake pedal travel because now your asking for even more fluid flow from the same OEM master cylinder. Since the rear brakes only do around 25% of your braking anyway, I sort of doubt you're even going to notice a difference by doing what this guy suggests in the video you linked. But, maybe I'm wrong.
³@@francoisl7663
Mm-k.
THANK Y'ALL so much, did this swap in my son's 3rd gen runner. Brakes are from Orielly auto parts ( spent too much money there...613.72) stops on a dime. Also did a complete brake fluid flush.
Cannot wait to replace the calipers and rotors on my 3rd gen runner...Thanks again.
You're welcome Mike. I hope your son was involved with the job to learn along with you. Turning wrenches is becoming a lost art.
@@TimmyTheToolman yes he helped....he bought the parts....and did the passenger side while I did the drivers side....I was faster....lol
@@michaelhenderson9910 That's awesome. Great to hear he's interested in auto mechanics.
Best Toyota channel on here. Thx as always.
Thanks Corey. We appreciate the nice compliment.
Another excellent video Tim! This was the 1st mod I did to my 00 T4R and never looked back! When I bought the truck I had soft brake pedal and after bleeding the brakes post upgrade I still do, but then again I never drained the rear brake lines... It's too cold to do it now so will have to wait till spring... A side note, one of my calipers (I think the left one) the brake line also had to be tightened extra turn or so for it to stop leaking completely; hindsight, maybe I should have put a thin layer of plumber's tape on the threads but it's been about 9 months since my upgrade and it hasn't leaked a drop so I'm calling that good. Keep up the good work!!!
The passenger side brake connection to the caliper ended up leaking and I was confident I had the connection tightened enough not to leak. That certainly messed us up for a while during the bleeding process until one of the guys at the house saw it dripping down. I gave it another quarter turn and the leaking stopped.
Seriously underrated channel. Fantastic work! 👍🏻
Thanks Mike. We appreciate it. We have been on a slow and steady growth. We do in a big way separate ourselves from other DIY automotive repair channels though. Pretty much nobody offers the detail we do in our videos. Absolute beginners with the interest in learning and willingness to buy tools can follow our videos step by step and get the job done. Other TH-camrs leave out important detail that leaves the viewer lost on how to proceed. I'm surprised as well that our channel hasn't attracted more subscribers. A whole lot of people use our videos every month, around 200k+ views per month, but getting them to want to subscribe is another story. Anyway, we'll keep doing what we're doing.
@@TimmyTheToolman You do deserve more subscribers.. I have watched quite a few videos out there on 4Runners and while there are many good ones, none compare in my opinion to the amount of details you guys offer, which is crucial for 1st timers like me on this topic. Keep up the great work, it will pay off. Thanks again. 👍🏻
@@Mike_44 Thanks Mike. We'll keep on keeping on.
Thanks alot for your videos. U explain things very well and have helped me make some repairs and upgrades i couldnt of done with out your vids. Very helpful very grateful!! Thanks man!
Misael thanks for stopping by in the comments and leaving us feedback! The reason we keep making these videos are for comments like these!
Hello again Tim. I did this job yesterday, and it went quite smoothly. One thing that made me whip a wrench at the ground was trying to get the flair nuts into the new calipers. The 1st one took me a good 15 minutes of subtle bends and tweaks. The second took me an hour, I swear to god. I ended up using a pair of pliers to put positive pressure on the face of the nut, without crimping down on the brake line. Then, I just kept adjusting the angle and spinning the nut until it grabbed... On the topic of "bed-in", I agree with you. I'm not sure if it is necessary or not. I think in general, avoiding hard braking and imprinting when the setup is new is critical. I did the bed-in procedure and I did notice much better "grab" after. I bet it would have gotten there in no time anyways, but I figured that I might as well get it where it should be quickly, to avoid the risk of imprinting... Thanks again to you and Shawn for the great work.
Michael Spangenberg Hey Mike, I agree about getting the brake lines reconnected to the new calipers. It's definitely a test of patience getting the threads started. Thanks for letting us know the bedding in procedure worked out really well. Happy Wrenching!
I did the upgrade on my 99 4runner more than a year ago. I used the Power stop Z36 drilled and slotted rotors with matching carbon ceramic brake pads for a 2004 tundra 231mm. After the upgrade, the only downside is that when you step on the brakes, the pedal goes lower than before. it was all good then after almost 20,000 miles, my rig now shakes with along with the steering wheel shimmy while braking when I'm exiting the freeway.
I bought EBC plain rotors with their green stuff brake pads for a 2006 tundra to replace my current setup. The Power stop rotors didn't cut it at all. Nice work in this by the way.
Hey James, I missed this comment. That's good to know about the Power Stop rotors. Thanks for taking the time to share this information.
Thanks for this awesome video. Was thinking of doing this on my 1999 Hilux Surf and feel I can do this on my own thanks to this video. Great job! Thanks
Hey Kevin, great to hear our video is giving you the confidence to do this modification on your own. You're welcome and good luck with the job.
Tim - I believe that a lot of the brake wobble people experience can be attributed to rotor warp-age due to over torqued lug nuts. Shops notoriously over torque the wheels. My daughter bought a 2000 4R last year which had brand new brakes and vented rotors with less than 1000 miles on them. There was wobble which seemed to worsen. When we went to install new rotors/ brakes we found the lug nuts tightened to 130 ft-lbs . 12k miles later there is no wobble at all.
Thanks for all your videos. I always look to yours first.
Hey Hans, thanks for sharing this. I have heard improperly torqued lug nuts could cause this and it's good to have some more confirmation that it can indeed be the reason for the front end wobble.
We're glad you're liking the videos. Happy Wrenching!
Been studying this video a few times and I think I got it. Went with OEM rotors, pads and shim kit. As far as calipers, I went with the Napa 231mm ones. Just ordered the gearwrench 1/2 flex head ratchet that was on sale at $38 using your link! Thanks Timmy for a good informative video. Will be knocking this out soon!
Good luck with the job Josh. Hope it goes smooth for you.
@@TimmyTheToolman did this last weekend it install went smoothly! My rear driver side bleeder would not bleed… turns out there was corrosion in the bleeder bc the rubber caps that cover the bleeders were missing. Used the vacuum plugs you linked in the description to cover all 4 bleeders. Great sic mod 🤘🏽
@@0341stroker Great job getting this sic mod done Josh. Thanks for getting back to us to share your success story. Happy Wrenching!
Timmy-
I just followed your video and did this sick mod. It eliminated my front end shimmy when slowing down. Used all OEM tundra parts, found them cheapest at Camelback.
Great to hear the mod worked out for you. Good job getting it done.
Always so informative and detailed. Much love.
We're glad you like it. Thanks for taking the time to comment. We appreciate it!
Loving the new microphone! Another great video!
Thanks! Yeah we had some comments about the audio quality and finally did something about it. I unfortunately forgot to install the mic on a recent video that will come out sometime next month. Oh well, shit happens.
Another great video Tim , thanks much.
Suggestion for onlookers.
Remove break line clip before detaching hardline from caliper.
Doing so provides play n line eliminating need for hardline bend when detaching from caliper.
You will find easier access to caliper bolts & much easier hardline reconnection.
Glad you like the video and thanks for sharing the tip about the brake line.
Another quality TTT video production.
Thanks Brandon. Glad you like it.
I dig this video...super informative from start to finish. Great job...im doin mine soon and this was just what I needed to get my mind right
Glad you found this video informative. Good luck with the job. Happy Wrenching!
Timmy! Another Great video! Thank you very much.
Clint Andren Glad you think so Clint. You're welcome.
Your videos are great. Thank you, Sir!
Thanks and you're very welcome.
Thanks for the help amazing video. I’m from Florida and over here me and my friends love your videos
You're very welcome Abraham. Great to hear you and your friends appreciate the videos Sean and I are making. Thanks for the comment and Happy Wrenching!
I'm late but I have done this on all of my 3rd gens from Sequoias I found in the junk yards. Saves lots of money. Good video!!!
P.s. the akebono pads seem to be the best for me!
Sounds like you're collecting 3rd Gens. Join the crowd.
@@TimmyTheToolman I swear man in my area they are becoming extinct!! I sent you my highest mileage one via IG 😊. I'll make a video soon
Awesome video, can't wait to do this to my 4runner
Hey Ryan, we're glad you like the video. You'll like this upgrade.
This is an awesome guide! A couple of side notes:
1. A lot of brake shops (from what I've experienced, anyway) won't resurface rotors anymore.
2. Resurfacing your rotors ends up making things worse, in a way, because you now have even less mass to absorb the heat, and so they'll warp again even faster. That's what I found with my 2000 SR5.
3. I ended up going with some upgraded (slotted) rotors and higher quality pads, and those have been good for the last 5-7 years. I would love to do this upgrade, but got scared off because I didn't want to have to buy a new set of rims to get everything to fit.
Hey David, you're right that not as many shops resurface rotors anymore but I don't agree that resurfacing them makes things worse. When you resurface, you aren't raking off that much materail. If the rotors were grooved really bad, they'd have to be trashed anyway. The amount of material they remove isn't going to dramatically affect the heat dissipation. Also, rotors don't warp from the heat. What ends up happening is you get uneven brake pad deposits on the rotor or uneven wear that cause the brake shuddering. The amount of heat it would take to actually make a rotor bend is massive. So, don't be reluctant to get rotors resurfaced. I resurfaced the ones on my rig that I did the TBU on and everything is great.
You can put drilled and slotted, with rear drum brakes?
Great video. Only recommendation is that when you install new (dry) calipers is to 'gravity bleed' them first, prior to the full bleeding sequence. This will get the majority of air out of the calipers and make bleeding easier and more successful.
Thanks for the tip Ralph.
I never had brake problems on my stock 1997 4runner but this is a good upgrade.
Luis M When I bought my 2000 used, I found that the brakes shuddered. I just bought replacement premium rotors from Napa and some ceramic pads and the shuddering went away. I do think the Tundra Brake Upgrade helps prevent the uneven deposit of brake pad material because the larger rotors dissipate more heat and thus won't get as hot as OEM size rotors. Uneven deposits happen when you get the rotors super hot and then come to a stop holding the pads against the superheated rotor surface. The pads will leave an imprint of a little extra material in that spot. With enough uneven deposits on the rotor, you end up with brake shuddering. People miskakingly think the rotor is actually warping but this is a common misconception.
If you know how to use engine braking, instead of riding your brakes down a long mountain road descent, you'll be less likely to overheat your brakes.
Timmy The Toolman Thanks Timmy!
Excellent video, thank you for posting it!
Thanks Mark. You're very welcome.
Y’all’s trucks are so clean. Wish I was in CA
Well, California does have nice weather but there's plenty of down sides like the cost of living.
Great job man 👍
Just wanted to see some ‘before and after’ brakes test. That would have been much interactive.
Thanks Ahmed. You make a good point about a brake test. So far, all I've heard is subjective feedback from people but nothing objective. Maybe some hard braking at different speeds and measuring the stopping distance. But, where do you conduct a test like that in a busy city. Maybe a big commercial parking lot after hours would be an option.
@@TimmyTheToolman burnishing brakes is absolutely necessary if you want any Valid Test comparisons.
**70-50mph @ medium(8ftsec) decel...back to 70 for a mile.
150 snubs.... Brakepads will achieve 250-280° f. And stay there for entire burnish.
This is GM fmvss STD brake burnish prep for testing.
*Larger trucks get 500 snubs!!!!!
Yes, it takes more than 2 days....😳
Note: leaf blower to clean road test surface!!
@@karter9908 Sounds labor intensive.
Tundra brake upgrade from hell is in progress on my 04 Tacoma. After tackling a 4WD conversion a brake job feels less wild and I was ambitious enough to just do the upgrade one afternoon. I went the OEM Toyota route + NAPA calipers. Since I can't reuse the old lines on a Tacoma I got some brake lines from Wheeler's Off-Road.
The passenger side went alright. The stock rubber brake line was a bit hard to loosen from the hard lines even with a higher end flare nut wrench but nothing terrible. I move to the driver side and things haven't gone smoothly. I literally couldn't get the fitting to come off and the flare nut wrench was just bending the whole line. Eventually it came off and I could feel the brake line fitting just tearing up as the soft line unscrewed. The hard line fitting threads were destroyed. Once I realized this I went to unscrew the other end of this short hard line which attaches to a frame mounted L shaped fitting. This end of this line also required hulk strength and came out cross threaded. I chased this cross threading issue up one more line before it stopped. No idea why but 3 sections of my driver side brake lines were extremely over-torqued from the factory.
Just something to watch out for if you're a Tacoma guy. A couple users over on Tacoma World ran into this too but none had to buy 3 sections of brake line like I did. Would've gone just as smooth as this video if I had a 4Runner.
Thanks for sharing this Andrew. That sucks the brake lines are so hard to break free on some of the Tacomas.
Hi Timmy. I just bought a 2002 Toyota 4 runner Sr5 and i love it. I want to upgrade the brakes. I don't want to change the rims and tires. I have 265/70/16 so i'm thinking to go with the 199mm 13WE . Your videos are very helpful. You're the best. Thank you so much.
You're welcome and thanks for taking the time to let us know you like what we're doing. Sean and I appreciate it. Happy Wrenching!
awesome awesome video man thank you so much the detail is insane
Thanks Mikey. Great to hear you enjoy the detail this video offers. We appreciate your comment. Happy Wrenching!
I fixed my problem with the steering wheel shake by doing a brake pad bedding in process. I used to take it easy with new brake pads until it was broken in. Now after installing the new brake pads and new rotors. I will speed up to about 50-55 mph and then brake hard down to about 25 mph and immediately after reaching the 25 mph I will accelerate back up to 50-55 mph again. Do this cycle five times. The next five cycles will consist of speeding up to 50-55 mph but brake down moderately hard down to 25. After the last one, drive until the pads cool down. Don't stop until they are cooled down. I found out about this bedding process when I bought one set of Hawk brake pads. You will need a road that allows you to do this. I tried another brand of brake pads and they had a bedding in process that is similar to what the Hawk brand recommended. I haven't experienced any steering shimmy for over 200k miles, which included two brake pad and rotor replacement. I usually get about 80 or 90k miles with a new set of pads. Google "brake pad bedding in" and you will find instructions for this. The brake pads will generate a lot of smoke during the bedding in process. The process I used is recommended for race cars. I have no complaints about the results I achieved.
Thanks for sharing. Just like you, many others have swore by the bedding in process. I haven't personally tried it out yet. On my 2000, I just replaced the rotors and pads with some premium ones from Napa. I sometimes feel a little shimmy but my braking has been great for several years and around 70k miles. Knowing how to use engine braking and not riding the brakes down steep grades is part of the equation. There's a high percentage of people that don't know they can use lower gears with their automatic transmission to slow them down while descending a grade. They just ride the brakes until they are smoking hot and imprint brake pad material when they have to come to a full stop. The key is to not overheat your brake rotors in the first place. The Tundra Brake Upgrade gives you a larger rotor that will dissipate more heat and I think that's one of the reasons why this mod is so popular because people with less than perfect driving skills are able to avoid overheating their brakes. But, you can still overheat the Tundra rotors if you're a really shitty driver and just ride the brakes down a long mountain descent.
Good video! Really nice step by step examples, links and parts # info! I had the front brake wobble on my 3rd Gen but I decided to try new stock rotors first to see if that fixed it and so far they are working great. I don't tow often so that helps. One thing I noticed is that my rear brakes were not self adjusting properly and were way out of adjustment. Now with everything in perfect adjustment and the back brakes working better it obviously has way more stopping power. I think the out of adjustment rear brakes were putting too much load on the front brakes and contributed to the wobble problem.
What was causing the rear brakes to not self-adjust and how did you fix it.
It seemed that they were just gummed up with brake dust and old grease. I took the rear brakes completely apart and cleaned everything perfectly then re-greased the adjusters with SuperLube Teflon Grease. Also sparingly greased all pivot/wear points in the brakes. They now self adjust properly each time the parking/emergency brake is used.
Cool. I want to video a rear brake job at some point in the near future.
How did you check the rear brake adjustments?
to adjust the rears easiest on these trucks after a fresh brake job, roll backwards in neutral and yank up and down on the parking brake. hold the button so you can keep yanking it up and down without it locking the handle on you. repeat for a few passes and you will start to feel the parking brake begin to grab harder and harder until it basically starts stopping the truck when you yank it. there is a night and day difference in brake performance once you go drive it. i like this way because it forces the rear brake drums to adjust themselves as much as they can naturally, as opposed to turning adjusters manually and potentially going too far...as always ... BE AWARE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS BEFORE DOING THIS.
Great video!!! Excellent job!!!
Thanks for taking the time to comment. Glad you like our video.
Thank you for putting in all this work and filming it to help guys like myself do it ourselves. Have you done a 3rd gen rear disc brake conversion? I can't seem to find a video from you on this.
You're welcome and thanks for taking the time to comment and let us know you appreciate our efforts. We have not done a rear disc brake conversion yet. But, I'm pretty sure there's a write-up or some type of information regarding it on a Toyota forum somewhere.
I had the same shimmy problem on my 02 Tacoma 4WD V6 and I found on a forum somewhere that the shimmy was actually caused by the rear drums. So, I replaced the drum pads and the shimmy when away. I know, it doesn’t make sense, but it worked.
Well, I could see how rear shoes could cause a shimmy but so could front rotors. Thanks for sharing this.
Awesome video!!
Cool! We're glad you like it.
I’m an actual Toyota tech. Rotors do warp. I’ve turned hundreds of them maybe thousands on brake lathes and measured runout. Sometimes it’s bad enough you can see it. I’ve also put rotors on machine flat surfaces and measured the warping with feeler gauges. Deposits don’t cause pulsation. If there is any, it’s wiped off the next time they get hot when the brakes are applied. Good video, but rotors def warp.
I appreciate your comment, but there's quite a lot of information out there that doesn't support your warping claim. Uneven wear is one. Uneven brake pad material transfer is another.
Thanks for the ideas 👍👍👍👍
You're welcome Thomas.
Solid presentation!
Glad you like it. Thanks for taking the time to comment.
Timmy The Toolman it was least I could do. Have to give where credit where it is due. This is no different to how I would do this project in my own garage. Keep up the good content!
Just got a 3rd gen 4runner. First priority, rear axle bearings and seals. I mean there's friggin' gear oil in the rear brakes! And while I'm at it, the Tundra brake upgrade.
Good luck with both jobs.
This is great, thank you!!
You're very welcome!
Love this channel!
Also did you guy use the 231mm for this upgrade?
Thanks Johnny! We're glad you like what we're doing.
@@johnnycromwel5263 Yes, we used the 231mm calipers in this video.
@@TimmyTheToolman perfect! Thank you and I appreciate it. Hope nothing but great things and positivity for you guys!!
@@johnnycromwel5263 We appreciate that Johnny. Happy Wrenching!
Every Toyota truck I’ve ever owned had miserable brakes. I just changed out all my rotors, calipers, and pads with OEM parts and did a complete fluid flush. I’ll be lucky if I get a year out of it before the wobble starts again. Been through it enough times to know its inevitable. Mine is a 2012 Tundra Crewmax Platinum. Good luck
Do you use engine braking Nick? I had gnarly brake wobble when I bought my 2000 4runner over 8 years ago. I got some premium rotors from Napa and some ceramic pads and my brakes have been great ever since. The key is too not overheat the brakes.
If the tube tahts goes into the bottle below the fluid line, you dont have to close the bleed screw every time. Just pump the brakes until there in no bubbles. Sometime If you step on the brakes with the bleeder closed, and tap with a hammer it will get the remainder of the air out. Its a one man job when done right.
Ok, thanks for sharing.
Just did this to my 3rd gen. Found a set of nearly new brakes on a junkyard tundra for $100. Rebuilt the calipers for good measure.
You scored. That was a good find.
The stopping power must be a world of a difference, especially with the bigger calipers!
It's definitely better.
Great videos as always. I did this mod years ago, and just yesterday had another thought. Have you EVER heard of anyone using the old front calipers for a rear drum conversion... and if so who may make the brackets so I don’t have to fab them... LOL.
There's a guy on T4R.org that's got a disk brake conversion for the rear for 3rd Gen 4runners but it uses Ford Mustang calipers.
I’ve seen his setup. But I’ve never heard of anyone just rolling the fronts to the rear... to keep it all in the Toyota family.
@@cg6089 That would be cool.
So, clearly the reason why this was never done… the fronts have no parking brake. If that’s not an issue for you it would be fine, but that’s the reason for the mustang (or similar).
Yup yup yup the tbu is the way to go
Great video, I would recommend you use blue thread lock instead of anti-seize on the caliper mounting bolts for the obvious safety reasons.
Cool Man A/C & Heating I guess it depends on what part of the country you're in. I think people in the salt belts put antiseize on everything. You do make a valid point but I think if the bolts are torqued to spec, they aren't going anywhere. Glad you like the video.
Timmy The Toolman i believe they only need threadlocker if the old bolts had threadlocker previously on it or if the manufacturers recommend it..i have seen bolts torqued to spec come loose eventually and they required threadlocker
Leanna Trout That's a good point.
Thank you for this helpful video! Im about to order oem rotors,pads & shims, and get calipers from napa. One quick question i had was; do you reuse the 17mm caliper bolts off of the 4runner calipers for the tundra calipers?
Yes, you reuse the 17mm bolts. You're very welcome and good luck with the job.
Hey Timmy and Sean great job with all your videos and I thank you for them.
Regarding your big brake upgrade.
I just had to rebuild my 20 year old brake master cylinder for my 01 Taco 4x4 because a little bit of the edge of the closest rubber seal to the booster tuned backwards during 95 degree weather. I could have just turned it the right way but I used a genuine Toyota rebuild kit and I became a pro at rebuilding my master cylinder.
Today, I found that I could have upgraded from my 13/16" master cylinder to a 1" master cylinder.
Youre a pro at researching these things and this would be an upgrade to all of us making our rigs heavier.
Please advise!
Glad you like the videos Sean and I are making. In regards to doing the research for a master cylinder upgrade, I can't guarantee that will ever happen. But, if someone comes to us with this job or one of us decides we'd like to do this mod, then maybe it will happen. Thanks for the comment. Happy Wrenching!
Did you have to mess with the connection at calipers?
Good stuff, thank you for the video. Is there any reason not to simply cut off the backing plate entirely, rather than the careful trimming you did to it?
Well Tom, manufacturers put them in for a reason. Supposedly brake dust is corrosive and the shield blocks the dust from ending up getting on other components under your rig. It also helps keep debris out of your disk brakes but disk brakes are suppose to be self-cleaning so who know how important of a feature that is.
I think the right call is to trim the brake dust shields rather than eliminating them altogether.
great stuff
Thanks!
Thanks Timmy for this Video. This is a Mod I haven’t done yet but now I’m going to do it soon.
Is it necessary to bleed the 2 rear brake lines? Or could you just get away with bleeding the 2 front brake lines since those were the ones you disconnected from the calipers?
You could probably get away with just bleeding the front brakes. Be sure to cap off the brake hard lines with a 7/32 vacuum cap to limit the fluid loss.
I had shimmy on my 05 Tundra was caused by cheap import rotors. Raybestos made in Canada is a solid choice.
Thanks for the suggestion. We have had great success with Toyota OEM parts for our brakes. I have all OEM brake parts (pads, rotors, calipers) on my 3 4runners.
- Sean
wow i need that brake for my car 😍
Fantastic instructional video but a few notes on this video: The video cuts where the rotor was still rubbing and Timmy says "it could be the angle of the axle" they never show how he fixes the free rotation. And what blew my mind was the pad springs. I've done many brake jobs in my day, I've never seen the pad springs that only go on the top of the caliper and not both, top/bottom.
It was the droop of the wheel causing the CV axle to bind. If we would havre jacked up under the lower control arm just a little bit, the axle wouldn't have binded anymore.
Yes, it is weird there's only 1 anti-rattle spring per caliper. I think it's smart to buy an extra spring so you can have them top and bottom.
@@TimmyTheToolman Have you done a 3rd gen rear disc brake conversion? It is the one disappointment of the gen 3 4Runners. I'd like to see how you do it, as your instructions are clear and to the point.
Thank you!!
You're welcome!
About to do this on my 2002 Tacoma. Got new brake likes and a Callahan CCK11988 kit
Good luck with the Sic Mod!
Goo job but anti seize for the brake carrier is a no no, you should use a medium strength lock tight to keep bolts from getting loose.
Well, I don't know about that. People in the rust belt of the country might disagree with you. Now, we're in sunny California, but I highly doubt those caliper bolts are going to come loose especially since they were torqued to spec. I put some blue loctite on my lower balljoint bolts because people had reported having them come loose and fall out. I don't think I've ever had any fastener fall off of a vehicle I've owned and worked on.
What about Gen 4 4RNRs? Same basic concept? ABS? Your stuff is gold!
I don't know if a Tundra or Sequoia caliper will bolt up to the knuckle of a 4th Gen.
Hey Timmy The Toolman! Love the videos! I'm thinking of doing the 1" master brake cylinder mod after the Tundra Brake Upgrade to make the pedal feel more stiff. (A bit soft now). I also heard it makes sense to do this since the tundra calipers can take more juice than what the stock runner MBC can give it. I'm in Cali, maybe I can come by and shoot a video with you!
Maybe we could shoot a video of this. Have you done research on how involved the master cylinder swap is? What year 3rd Gen do you have?
Timmy The Toolman I am currently doing research. So far, it looks like it's almost a plug and play scenario if you get the mc from the T100 or the fzj80. I have a 1996 4runner.
Hi Yota Nation and Timmy The Toolman! I Did my TBU last week and change old braided brake line to (Wheelers off road performance brake line) and I thought something is wrong after because pedal is little bit soft, I even did second brake bleed procedure again today and pedal still soft! I even checked everything if theres a leaked into all the lines and connection and find nothing and I also checked brake booster and did the test and its working properly, Do you think brake cylinder upgrade make the brake little stiffer?
My apologies for the gibberish that my Swype put up there...what i was saying is "you mentioned that the stock rims are 16" the stock rims on my 2001 4Runner are 15 " will I need a differerent size rotor or will the 199 work for the 15 in rim as well thank you for this video and the info
Hey Timmy. do you recall what cv's the owner is using? they look upgraded.I/m from Aus by the way.. my application will be to a toyota prado 90 series but the 3rd gen 4runner shares a lot of similar parts. Also i always put my low brake pad indicator on the leading edge of a rotor. so in this case the other way around to which you had. on some vehicles where the spring sits on one side only this prevents the sequel you hear when braking in reverse due to sticky pistons.. thats why the spring is there. to return the brake pads away from the rotor on the leading edge.
Love what you do mate. you've taught me a lot. Thank you
Hey Mike, I sent a text to Jay and I'll let you know what he says when he gets back to me. We're glad you like our channel and are learning a lot from our videos. Hearing this always brings a smile to our faces.
Thanks
You're welcome Tim.
Hey Tim....excellent video...thank you so much. Had a question for you though- Wouldn't greasing up the pins cause road dirt and brake dust to stick to them? Wouldn't it be better to leave them dry?
That's a logical thought, but grease is recommended in all caliper and drum brake systems for the moving parts and both develop lots of dirt or debris, mainly from the brake dust. Leaving them dry would cause more drag of the brake pads on the pins leading to a higher chance the pads will stick and not fully relax away from the rotors after pressure is taken off the brake pedal.
This video was pretty good. One might say it was Okay. Yea it was okay okay okay. Okay
That’s mmmkay to you good sir
Hey Tim, on the 4runner forum they tell you that you can grind a small section of the larger caliper to make it fit the stock wheels. I used the smaller one on mine but probably would do the bigger ones if I did it again.
Hey John, I have heard this as well. But, is it safe to do this? I don't know. I wonder how much they are shaving off.
Hey @@TimmyTheToolman I see they reference you on the forum so I do not think they would mind you referencing them.
www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/94923-hard-find-specs-info-measurements-231mm-13wl-tundra-calipers-rotors.html
I did not find the thread that I used to do my swap but all was needed was to trim the dust shield and grind a small nub off of the caliper. It would not even get close to removing enough metal that you would have to worry about the fluid busting though. Apparently a service bulletin came out that phased out the 199mm calipers. BTW I painted mine gold to look cool, except that you can barely see them. A little bit of wasted time!
@@JohnSmith-se8pf We provide a link to that T4R thread in the video description as well. That's good to know the caliper only requires a slight shaving to fit.
Great video as always. Just wondering if you and Sean can recommend a some brake lines if I were to do this brake upgrade.
Wheelers Offroad makes some good brake lines. wheelersoffroad.com/shopbyvehicle/4runner/96-02-4runner/performance-brake-lines.html
@@TimmyTheToolman Hi tim. Sorry I forgot to ask....do I purchase tundra brake lines or 4runner brake lines? Or all they all standard connections?
I lost the count of the commercials but thanks a lot for the video!
We agree the commercials can be annoying but it's how any TH-camr makes money. I guess we could just be totally generous guys and donate dozens and sometimes hundreds of hours of our time every month for zero compensation but I think we deserve to make some money for our efforts. The motor replacement series we recently uploaded was a tremendous amount of work. We spent 4 very full days, wrenching and filming to document the job. After that, it was dozens of hours of editing.
In addition to shooting videos, we spend quite a bit of time everyday keeping up with comments and questions on our channel. I don't know if you noticed, but we try to acknowledge every comment and answer every question that comes in. This takes some time.
Think about the rate of return for the viewer. Yes, they have to endure some annoying ads while watching one of our videos. But, that's a pretty small price to pay for the information we are sharing that's allowing them to do a job themselves saving them hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars on expensive labor costs at dealerships and independent shops. We don't charge people to access our videos. Anyone across the globe with an internet connection can watch our videos for free.
The reason why I spent this much time replying to you is to give you a TH-camr's perspective. We're not some hot girls in bikinis shaking our asses and doing very little effort to attract subscribers and make tons of money because sex sells. We've worked very hard for the subscribers we have attracted to our channel and we work extremely hard for the nominal amount of money we earn.
But, I'm glad you appreciate the video and you're very welcome.
Great video. Just wondering, is it necessary to bleed all 4 corners (5 in my case, since I have LSPV) when doing this upgrade? I just had all brakes bled a month ago. Would I get away with just bleeding the fronts?
We didn't show it but we also replaced a rear brake line on Jay's rig so we had to bleed the entire system. If you use a vacuum cap or something similar over the brake line to stop from losing a bunch of brake fluid, I imagine you probably could get away with just bleeding the front brakes only. I like to use a 7/32" vacuum cap and slip it over the flanged part of the brake line to stop it from leaking. The cap doesn't go over the threaded nut, just over the metal line.
Now, with that said, I'd still recommend going through the whole bleeding process just to be safe. I know you just had your brakes bled recently but brake fluid is not expensive. Start with the right rear, then left rear, then right front, then left front and finally the Load Sensing Proportioning Valve should be last.
Good luck and Happy Wrenching!
Este tio es un crakk 👍👍👍
Good job
Thanks Sami.
Thank you Timmy!
Now that’s it’s been 6 years, how are the brakes holding up?
I'm not in contact with Jay anymore but I did the upgrade on my rig and they're doing great.
Great video. Finding your channel has helped me tremendously. New to the Tacoma world and I love doing work myself. Anyone know, Would this upgrade work for a 2009 Tacoma? It’s 17’ rims so i’m assuming the 231 would work just fine. I live in the mountains of Washington and My truck shakes like crazy on these downhill roads.
Thanks John. Don't know if this would work for a newer Tacoma. You'd have to find larger calipers that will bolt to the steering knuckles and I don't know if the Tundra calipers will bolt up.
outstanding video of DIY. I think the Runner and T100 has the same cablier. but I wonder if I'll fit the T100 also. who knoes you can also add a manual locking hub to it too. 👍👍👍👍
Don't know about the T100, but I bet it would work. As long as the caliper bolt holes line up, it would work. You'd still have the same issues with the mod - having to trim the dust shield to allow the caliper to fit and then whether or not your current wheels will fit over the larger calipers. And, maybe the location where the metal brake line connects to the caliper could be a little different so you'd either have to try to manipulate the brake line to work or buy an aftermarket flexible braided line.
Manual locking hubs? Hmmm. No clue on that one. Don't know what kind of modification that would require to make that work.
Timmy The Toolman I'm sure it will. After all the T100 is the first gen of the tundra. Now I just have to find out if I need the thicker mm or not. thanks buddy
Do the 6 spoke 96-98/ 99-02 sr5 wheels. these are 16 inch rims with the 265-70-R16 tires. I have these wheels and I wold love to have new Toyota tundra trd bead lock rims but cant afford that.
The NAPA caliper is the way to go (if you can't find OEM at a junkyard that is or just don't want to, yes NAPA will take the 4Runners back in for core refund), its nicely coated, after 4 years, mine looks brand new still. Also no warping at all like the stock ones. One of the best upgrades for the 3rd gens.
Thanks for your suggestion Ian.
I always call it da nipple too lol. Most Everyone says, its a zerk fitting
You would fit in well with our group Juan. You have to have fun while wrenching.
Hi Timmy The Toolman I did this TBU few weeks ago, and I read some of your reply to comments about doing this upgrade your brake travel further because it need more fluid for the bigger caliper correct me if i was wrong if thats the exact word but anyways I would like thank you frist for this great video, my TBU went very well and however I feel little spongy when braking and I already did bleeding twice to make sure theres no air on the brake lines and checked the lines and connection if theres leaking but find nothing is leaking!
brake pedal travel further I mean*
Hey George, it's normal for the pedal to feel different and it is because you'r adding bigger calipers but keeping the same master cylinder. Even though the pedal feels a little spongy or soft compared to before, your braking should be improved and better than before. It just takes a little getting use to. I regularly switch between two 3rd Gens, one with the TBU and one without so I'm constantly reminded of the difference in pedal feel. But, I don't see it as a big deal. The brakes work well and that's all that counts. If your brakes aren't stopping well, than I'd suspect you might still have air in the lines.
@@TimmyTheToolman thank you so much for this input I’ll keep that in mind! I thought at first there is something wrong
@@georgepascual9173 No problem George.
Does anything change if I'm doing this on a 2000 4runner with 2WD instead of 4X4? I only ask because everywhere i read says to order calipers for a 4x4 tundra v8
Nothing changes.
Great video, I am going to upgrade my brakes with the 199mm calipers. do you have the part number for the pads for that size??
Hey Jake, glad you like the video. For the pads, just use a 2001 Tundra 4x4 V-8 for your search. This was what somebody suggested on a forum that did a lot of research into this mod. I can't 100% vouch though that his research was perfect.