ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2023
- Which is best sailing hull material for you? Do you know the truth about Aluminium? Dive into the nitty gritty to look out for in an Aluminium boat from a professional boatbuilder and sailing You Tube channel @VetTails share their thoughts on their Aluminium boat "Chuffed".
➡️ Don’t miss the rest of the series: 🎥
01 Fibreglass / GRP: • Fibreglass hull, WHY W... @SailingUma
02 Steel: • Do steel cruising yach... @WaywardLifeSailing
Guests: 🎖
@VetTails
dr.sheddy_t...
Get involved! SUBSCRIBE to see more product testing, reviews and sustainability in sailing. It really helps us build this community and you can help us decide what videos to make next! 🎥
www.youtube.com/@SailHub?sub_...
Follow on INSTAGRAM 📱
/ sailhubchannel
#material #saillife #sailing
#hull #aluminium #101 #yacht #boat #sail #sailing #ocean #cruiser #bluewater #diy #boatyard #rust #corrosion #maintenance #boatlife #sailhub - บันเทิง
Alustar aluminium for the _WIN!_
I don't mind people being totally out of touch when it comes to my favorite construction method - wasted years trying to explain it all, now I just let them speculate.
Just the fact that it doesn't need paint - co$t and weight - is enough for me.
Thanks everyone for pronouncing it properly too!
Thanks Dan 👍⛵️💨
What else can you say when Chris and Jenny deliver another amazing video? You say: keep them coming!
Aluminium is always on my mind when I think about the perfect boat for me so... thanks you guys ; )
Cheers Rafa! The man the myth the legend. Got to find a point to catch up in person fella.
Thank you, well put.
Cheers.
Thanks for the comment! 👍⛵️
Nice video. 5083 H32 and 5052 are the alloys I use with a PP gun and the wire is 5356. Push gun needs 5183. You need to remove the bulk of the oxide layer prior to welding and design for shrinking during the welding process and accommodate of the heat affected zone. With modern inverter welders and a little bit of learning first on steel before Al, with aluminum being an excellent choice for a self built boat
Cool, I’m a 5083 5356 guy for most things, although I don’t tend to need to bend much these days so that’s probably why. These days we just carry an inverter tig as it’s so portable. They are fab! It does feel a little more faffy in comparison to mig sometimes but it’s small and good for swapping out to do the odd set of chainplates and arches etc.
I’ve been thinking of a spool gun recently too for an upcoming project, either that if the miller mpi for its portability. But… it’s expensive and more kit to store when we don’t have a workshop anymore!
Delighted you folks are back at sea, kind regards and nice to meet you in Chiapas
Hey!! Thinks there may be some confusion, on our side at least!!
Chiapas? Not sure I’ve been there!
Cool channel you’ve got going on there 👍
@@SailHub apologies was for vets tails
When we build pumping stations in S. Louisiana, the stainless steel pipe flanges are alloy 304 and 7/8" dia. stainless steel bolts are alloy 316. We have to isolate the two different alloys from each other using phenolic sleeves and washers to prevent corrosion.
Cool, isolation is such an important part of a build! What’s the phenolic part, I dont know much about phenolics at all and never thought of them as an electrical insulator - I would generally use nylon, and tefgel.
Before buying an aluminum boat it's probably a good idea to learn tig welding on aluminum. If you have no experience then it might take you a couple months. You'll need the tig setup to make repairs. There are other ways but why bother? Learn to do it right with the proper equipment. You cant make fiberglass repairs without learning how either. Any place you attach stainless steel will corrode.
You fix it pretty much the same way you get rid of deep rust. Use a grinder to get down to good metal then build it back up with TIG. It isn't complicated to a welder, or hard. It does take a little money for the machine and gas bottles and a lot of practice. Might as well get started before you buy the boat. A good TIG welder already has a job, and they work for a lot more than your average mechanic or boat repair guy. You don't want to pay someone every time you need a little repair. If you're planning to use sweat equity this is a great place to start. Just my opinion . . .
Pretty good advice I’d say 👍
hmmm not sure I agree with this. Do you have any idea of how hard it is to weld PROPER TIG ? Esp on a hull plate with double curvature at play and you are effectively welding upside down! Its a monster of a job that takes considerable skill. MIG even worse because of porosity - its easy to get a nice looking MIG weld that is complete Sh*t !
Thank you for making a wider sailing audience aware that cruising boats can be built (and may be better) from other materials than GRP. Seems the French are on the forefront most of the time. Another material has seen a renaissance in French boatbuilding recently is plywood/epoxy. Think RM boats. Maybe a topic for the next vid? Thanks again.
For sure! We nearly made our own plywood epoxy build, love a strip planned build too. That was what I really wanted to build, but… sustainability calls for us so metal it was! We’re hoping to do some filming with the guys at spirit to cover modern wooden builds👍
I sailed on a French (Joubert et Nivelt) designed Ali 18m yacht in "Meta" construction. Hard chine with plates welded together full length flat, then bent from from bow to stern to form continuous curves with minimal internal bulkheads. 20mm below waterline (yes 20mm), 10mm above with 8mm decks and cabin. With a less is more attitude to paint, above ground wiring, a good amount of anodes, attention to dissimilar metal interfaces (insulation and tefgel) you end up with a very strong, lightish, non corroding floating Faraday cage. Great cruising construction!
They are super designs! Our friend @oddlifecrafting are having a inspirational Meta built now. Similar to the old designs with some real modern lines, some tweaks to the structure and an impressive keel design!
sounds like a lot of steps. Maybe too much hassle unless you are super dedicated to babysitting that boat. Most of us just want to park it and forget it as life has lots of other demands.
@@Coleen_West maybe, but regardless of your boat you should be taking the same precautions… sail drives, metal through hull fittings, keel bolts, rudder stocks etc require the same attention and can just as easily sink your boat….
@@SailHub wow...didn't realize the time committment to this. Kinda just want to have fun and park it and come back whenever and go out.
@@Coleen_West for sure! Thats what we all want! To be fair though, it’s all very simple to achieve, generally all sorted by the original boat builder - we’ve just got to keep an eye on it once in a while
I am 18 month into a rebuild on what was supposed to be 6 months on a refit. My boat is a 42 ft aluminium French hull. I found so much corrosion inside the hull that we had to do extensive replating and correction work. Be very very very careful buying an old aluminium boat. The corrosion is hidden in places you just cant find till you strip her down to a bare hull.
Oh no, where are you doing the refit? I would love to come and see it! Sorry to hear the problems though.
@@SailHub The boat is being rebuilt in South Africa. I have a ton of photo's video's of the process and the work we have undertaken. 5083 plate and 5356 filler wire. My welder is an aluminium boat builder and has built a number of 60/70ft boats and even one over 100ft. He knows his stuff. He built a 62ft boat for a guy who then decided he wanted to lengthen it to 75ft - the boat was brought into the yard and put on the hard - my guy cut the bow and stern off and lengthened the boat to 75ft - that takes some skill !!! I paid for approx 600 hours of welding/fabrication on the hull. But in South Africa the rate for this level of quality is only around $45 per hour so not as bad as it could have been. Still, I have put aprox $35K into the hull repairs all up. After all that I still think ALU is the right hull material. My boat had some serious damage to the plates on the Starboard side and the Boat survived all that. She was clearly up on a reef at some point - GRP would have sunk. Its amazing how much damage an ALU hull can take and still float/sail. That level of confidence in the hull when operating in very very remote areas where there is no one to come help you is priceless.
@jimjones7821 sounds like a legend this boatbuilder you’ve got on the job! Man, seems like a right interesting project you’ve got on! Would be cool to see some of the pics.
@@SailHub for sure - I will get some together for you as its very interesting if you are interested in ALU hulls
@jimjones7821 sure am! We’re about to start our own build of one 👍
Great vid. I love an aluminum boat and have ordered an Ovni for delivery in 2025. Thickness is 10mm below the waterline (adding to stability), 8mm sides and 6mm decks and coachroof. Not so easy bending plate of that thickness and hence the boxy shape and hard chines. The scantlings, sprayed cork plus black foam as well as linings under deck and roof should address all the noise, conduction and radiation issues mentioned. I have spent a lot of time on the DC and AC systems (all Victron), speccing only components that are isolated so as to avoid the dreaded electrolysis. Plan to sail her for at least a decade. Hope to spot you at Grand Pavois.
Sounds like an epic build!
Keep us posted, I would love to see this during its build! (do you use Instagram?)
We’re pretty sold on Aluminium too… Stay posted, we’ve got something pretty cool around the corner🤫
10 years of operation? funny ! We need a boat and a hull for 30 years. Then at high loads it will last 20 and I consider it reliable
@@alee5240 I would suggest that a well built aluminium hull should be timeless if looked after correctly. Even under high stress situations the material is definitely strong enough to manage what a sailboat can throw at it. 💪
@@SailHub loads are one thing, but metal without reinforcing additives and against corrosion is just metal, and pure aluminum cannot even be drilled, it is very durable. I'm talking about corrosion, it often looks harmless on the outside on aluminum. It is simply easier and faster for manufacturers to make a boat with the maximum amount of profit and with a minimum number of manufacturing operations, and then the problems of a buyer in love with his boat. If he misses the moment of important anti-corrosion treatment, then he will blame himself, not the manufacturer. There are so many inaccessible places in an aluminum boat where you can’t see the danger of corrosion that you can’t say exactly when and in what storm the hull will betray. And all these relations between the anode and cathode, which must be strictly observed for aluminum. Аn example with metal for ships can still be worked on, found in complex world upheavals, but with aluminum it is problematic, it is difficult to find one composition. How much I watch another video and I stop liking aluminum, which is used for boats.
@alee5240 interesting, I would suggest you read into your worries a little more.
Wonderful explanation, and I completely agree that aluminum is the best boat hull for a sailboat as well. Where steel hulls shine is in much larger yachts - 110 ft (32m) and longer. Steel is stronger and higher melting points so more resistant to fire's 1200 to 1600 degree fahrenheit temps, and its heavier so more sea kindly when paired with aluminum superstructures.
Thanks! I think steel certainly has its place, as you say it’s generally with larger boats. Nothing wrong with it in small boats either I just believe it’s a little heavy and we don’t need the added strength as Aluminium is more than enough.
As for fires, its an interesting point. given a diesel fire is under 100°c and aluminiums melting point is six times this. This is not really an issue, however… A lithium fire is generally a lot higher and this could cause problems! Still, where fire is a concern. Safety is always paramount and as you suggest I think steel would be the best without question
👍
@@SailHub 😉maybe do a little more research on the temps of fire. I can assure they are higher than 600 - aluminum's melting point ...
Cheers, I will do - thankfully I’ve not been in one 🙏
I love a good read, this paper is quite interesting… stating the ignition temperature of aluminium is higher than that of steel. I was really surprised by this however the reasoning makes complete sense.
Maybe worth a read, I will be continuing to read on the mater and I’m hoping to do a video with the coastguard and fire service about fires in the future too. Thanks for raising the point, it’s really quite a good one 👍
almet-marine.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Ch09-fire-resistance-of-aluminium.pdf
@@SailHubThey did say 2000 c for the aluminium oxyde layer and 660 c for the aluminium itself.
I worked and bought one of the Alum /Foam collered Safe Boat and the prototype ended up as scrap after unprimed alum behind collars corroded horribley where the Ss bolts attached.
The salt formed donuts that grew until the sides cracked.
We later epoxied as much as possible and put
Lanocote on threads for any fasteners.
Urine will destroy a hull , rats or human .
Battery acid too.
One Non- marine battery charger from a neighbor boat will destroy your alum hull if not totally isolated.
An electric start motor sorta makes it hard to achieve…….
Alum was $1 a pound when I bought my $8k hull in 1990.
Now it’s at $3+……
Precious metals go up in value, as long as it is all there.
They use Ultrasound on alum hulls to verify thickness and if compromised.
Welding makes it porous too , why primer in/out is critical.
I saw a Stabicraft get scrapped after it had scuppers plugged and a car battery charger used to keep the bilge running 24/7 as welds leaked so bad. The diver let copper pennies and used zincs roll around it as he worked cleaning bottoms. The stuff scarfed thru the bottom.
“Salt away “is also your friend.
A lot of interesting points there Tim. All easily answered by a professional in the business too.
Aluminium is a fantastic material but it’s but open for much experimentation. The research is well documented and the rules are written, stand by them and you won’t have a problem.
Cheers,
Chris
I have three aluminum hulls, one steel and one fiberglass. Hands down aluminum is the best, easiest to care and most durable.
Oh wow! The formula for the ideal number of boats is clearly X + 1!
Seriously, that’s great to know, I’m sure most would suggest fibreglass is easiest, but then.. most have not delved any further. We’re quite excited about aluminium at the moment!!
What do you think about making Catamarans out of Titanium, given the nature of Titanium, it's strength, lightness, the fact that it doesn't corrode, etc., etc.: ???
I'd love to hear back from you on this subject. Thank you, AD.
Hi AD, now there’s a thought!
So, I’m not too confident talking about Ti as I am not all that experienced with it, I know that it it is very tricky to weld which would put me off as it’s going to be extremely hard to find someone to repair it. I believe it’s strength is great but this usually means means objects are made super thin, which is good for weight but I think it would likely tear on impact. It’s also crazy expensive.
It probably is a top notch material to use for the right boats however does it’s advantages outweigh its outrageous price tag! For me, probably not.
For a racer? Probably not, a carbon hull would likely be a lot cheaper. For structural parts though, I think your onto something there.
What are your thoughts?
Great video, was always wondering why you would choose aliminium..
80’s metal. That’s where it’s at!
The soundtrack of @Sailing Voyager!
@@SailHub agree - 80's metal is where its at !
@jimjones7821 😂hair metal and Lycra? What a time in history that was!
A galvanic isolator is a cheap half measure ! The only proper barrier from he shore, for an aluminum boat is an isolation transformer.
Even better is to stay away from the shore!
@@SailHub cheeky. You seem to be lacking pretty basic knowledge. Some people might think you know what you are talking about, follow your advice and get into trouble. Please research the subject before you put out a video clio.
@@jarekkanios2697 cheers for the confidence vote 😂 It is my job by the way…
As a proper answer to your question, an isolation transformer is most certainly a better option. It is surprising to have found a number of aluminium boats without one from factory though. Cost savings I guess, not good.
For reference, this video was intended as a complete basics video. Hence the basic level of info, it’s not there as a definitive guide, just a starting point for people to begin their research from.
The intention here was to offer the knowledge to have an insight into a given material.
Unfortunately it’s very hard to go into great detail in a single video. If I were to do this we would need to cover every detail. Where do we start?!
What grades to use where, what welding rods to use where, what sheilding gases to use, when to mig vs tig, wiring systems, windlass isolation, keel design, electrical, systems, compatible resins, paints, insulations, bearings, steering systems etc etc the list goes on and you will be more than aware of these issues. Unfortunately though, the video would never get watched…
I hope you understand this and rest assured, we will take this slip up on the chin and better it next time. Believe it or not, I really do appreciate your comment 👍
Thanks,
Chris
I worked on an old 85 foot wooden fishing boat in Alaska in the 70’s which had a steel stern. While working on the boat one summer the skipper had the wooden bow removed and replaced with an aluminum bow. I was around while the work was being done and got weld burns in the eyes and went to the ER. The following fall we went King crab fishing and the boat performed amazing in heavy seas.
Haha! That’s bonkers!
I started out as a wooden boat builder,
I would love to see this fishing boat, it sounds crazy! Mind you, the welders flash doesn’t sound too good, I hope your sight was ok 👍
Wuuhoooo! Really like these videos.
I own a Stabicraft. Best boat I've had and it will last me a lifetime.
I am learning how to work on and weld aluminum to do my own repairs and to delete as many fasteners and accessories of other metals as possible. (Rod holders, grab rails, transducer brackets, etc)
I do have one question. What type or grade of aluminum is used for marine fabrication and what types or grades can be used when repairing or adding custom modifications?
Thank you
Hi! Thank you very much! Great to see your getting involved with sim AC/DC welding too!
So, regarding the aluminium.. it depends on what your doing and where. In general 5000 series is what is used on boats. You can use 6000 series too, what is the particular application?
@@SailHub
Wow! Thanks for getting back to me and helping me with my question.
Yes I'm learning how to TIG weld aluminum. So far I have made my own bait tank out of a small aluminum fuel tank. It came out ok for my first project.
But to answer your question and moving forward the application of my next project would be to delete the stainless rod holders on the gunnels and make them out of aluminum to then weld them in place.
So my question is what series aluminum should I be looking for when buying the extrusions (pipe, plates, angles) for my projects.
Thank you!
@jejoko excellent stuff! Well done 👍,
So, 5083 is what I would use for this.
@@SailHub
Thanks again captain!
You have pointed me in the right direction.
Aluminium is the best material for boats - with a huge distance to the second.
When it comes to nostalgic aspects taken into account wood comes close.
Nicely put 👍
If the hull is aluminum, what material is recommended for the masts? What is the mitigation for lightning strikes?
You can choose that yourself… aluminium is awesome and attracts electricity. Carbon ins more awesome and attracts more electricity. Wood is good and doesn’t attract electricity 👍
This is a great video.
When I was younger my father bought a retired 65' mini-maxi, Boomerang II which was built by Direcktor in Ft. Lauderdale in the late 70's. We sent the boat back to Direcktor in the mid 80's for a complete refit and upgraded the systems and interior to convert it into a luxury cruiser set up for a short handed crew. The boat was Aluminum and built like a brick shithouse! It is currently for sale and sitting on the hard in Portugal. I would love to buy it and refit once again but 65' is a big boat for my limited skills. Aluminum boats are the shit and the best option IMO.
Hey Zack, cheers for the comment and rest assured.. we will get into it again for a more in depth talk.
This video is pretty basic as it is intended for beginners as we wanted a simple place to start from. You may not that every subject we talk about was very basal.
We’ve just come from Portugal… saw a few nice ally boats out on the hard around Lisboa… we also agree that despite the price, aluminium would be our choice for cruising.
Been designing a yacht for many years and would choose nothing other than Aluminium. I think people that choose fibreglass are just mad and they all end up as land fill or junk in the ocean. ALuminium is recyclable and dissolves in the ocean over a long period. The hull can also be used as a radiator for engines without introducing sea water in and having more components to clean. Jet drives can be welded directly to it instead of glue and bolts like fibreglass. If you do have a crack or hole, you can also easily screw on a repair sheet of thin aluminium, where as fibreglass screws would just tear out. Any scrap from the large plates can be used in smaller areas. You don't need a massive mold either to construct a boat, my design is 24.8 metres, so I can still build it myself with aluminium. You can modify it by just welding to it, much simpler than fibreglass.
To true, although fibreglass is very easy to fix without any real skill required.
Anyhow, I would love to know more about what your designing, I always a boat build project!!
@@SailHub My yacht design is a high aspect 25X5 (approx) mono hull axe bow with twin jet drives. It also has drop in electric propulsion. 3 tonnes of sla (96kw) batteries in the lower hull plus some more lithium, approx 15kw of solar which is integrated into the decking (decking flips over to expose the panels) hydrogen filled kite, about 10m2 of greenhouse below deck, heaps of freezer storage for fish and food, a small wood fired stove to make use of drift wood, electric stoves of course, wind turbine 15,000 litre of diesel and much more. It is designed so you can live off an island almost indefinitely. Not started yet, but I think it is far better than most of the yachts today. Kites are much better than sails and from reading most people use their engines over sails. A greenhouse can be made to withstand sea conditions, something I think is important. The yachts I see are mainly designed as an orgy pad or are very basic and can't sustain life for a long time, or not comfortable. I see mine as comfortable, sexy and practical, although the length is a hindrance to many ports.
Genious!
agree. AL has more pros than cons, for a knowledgeable owner. For a knowledgeable welder, AL is no more difficult than steel.
Merci!
Hey, 👋🏼 thank you so much for your support! ❤️ It’s really good of you to say thanks as you have and we really appreciate it!
Super pleased it’s been helpful for you! We are actually building our own Aluminium boat now which is mega exciting and actually pretty new news. ⛵️ If you’ve got any more questions then we’d love to hear from you. Check out our website www.sail-hub.com as there’s various ways to get in touch on there. There’s going to be a lot more aluminium focussed videos coming up on the channel too so stay tuned 🤟🏼 thanks again.
Interesting. What is the (general) price difference between an aluminium and other materials in boats?
Hey, unfortunately aluminium has a pretty hefty price tag… I would suggest the price is 3x grp and 2x steel.. This is a very loose guide mind as there are many methods for construction.
You can use cheaper building methods with the material such as Meta’s monocoque technique as opposed more traditional frame a mind stringer build that the likes of KM use.
Either way it’s still expensive due to labour, popping a grp boat out of a mould is always cheaper and quicker. The moulds are the expensive part for grp construction however due to the high turnover of hulls it is quickly absorbed.
J
@@SailHub Wow, even worse than what I imagined. But understandable - there must be a good reason why very few are Al.
@JCKR-yv4gy sure is an expensive process! Sadly the other reason for less aluminium boats seems to be a multitude of myths which we hope to some how kerb at some point…
Nice
Thanks! We really appreciate you commenting! 👍⛵️
I’m from the USA… I think it’s awesome how you pronounce Alyewminneyum
😂 takes years of practice… Jenni still struggles sometimes!!!
Yes, rom U S.A. I prnounce it Uh-lune-in-um or Uhlunimun.
Potato!
@@SailHub - Pa-tate-oh. Puh-tot-oh. 🥔 Tomato.Tamatoh. 🍅 :)
I need help! I'm looking for an Amel style vessel (protected mid body helm) but with an aluminum hull. I love the amel's but I want to adventure not only the tropics but the poles as well, and unfortunately amel does not make vessels with aluminum hulls. Can anyone point me in the correct direction? Thank you!
Hey, have you seen distant shores TH-cam channel? You may like their boat, an Enksail Orion 49. There is also many other to check out - beastever yachts. I’m sure KM will do something, also check Berckemeyer, hoek, van de stadt. That’s just a start…
Have fun👍
You should look at the YELKOVAN 56, it is made of steel instead of aluminum.
You didn't mention impressed current protection. This is essential on any fizz-boat.
Hey Devo,
There’s quite a bit we did not talk about as it’s just a video for people who are new to aluminium or thinking about buying aluminium. It’s no concise 101 here, just an overview, a place to start.
I think we touched on electrolysis briefly but it’s a huge topic to explain to people well, we just want them to know that they need to know about it and it can be solved.
@@SailHub wow - is this an indication that more technical is to come? Looking forward to it.
Hey, thanks! We will do some more in the future. - just getting through a bunch of products and some projects first! Defo more Aluminium coming soon, in fact much more!
Interesting. I had thought carbon fiber woukd be the preferred material.
Carbon is a fantastic material but it’s a bit brittle, even in as high modulus. Modern resins are certainly advancing here but for now aluminium is still better for high impact etc. if your racing though… carbons stiff hull, direct power transfer and light weight make it a no brainer!
I was looking a a aluminium boat. Now I really gotta know my stuff because of electrusism and galvanic corrosion
Oh no! Don’t stress. It’s all good, Aluminium is in my opinion the best choice, there’s things you need to know but that’s the same as any boat - for example electrolysis can sink a fibre glass boat through an aluminium sail drive.
Generally though all you need to get sailing is a good surveyor and ask them how to do simple checks. After that your just keeping on top of the things 👍
good vid. comments, fwiw... Every metal has its unique properties, so working with it requires knowledge and skill: the hallmarks of a good tradesman. AL is a superior metal for marine applications, for the reasons noted here. But nothing can survive abuse: not even the Titanic. Sailed with a modicum of care, AL will outlast all other metals except stainless. True, AL needs to be insulated to avoid galvanic reaction, but this is no big deal nowadays, more so for power yachts. One pro I have found with unpainted 100% AL boats is they are cooler in hot weather: the metal conducts heat into the ocean, in the fashion of a heat sink. I have found cork decking to be excellent for AL yachts.
Hey Rob, thanks!!
Great points made there. Cork, for decking is superb, is a sure winner, spray cork inside is a fantastic way of insulating too.
Interesting thought in Stainless for you… It needs O2 to remain corrosion resistant and so you generally find crevice corrosion is a big problem under the waterline, it will also tend to tear on impact which is another reason it is not commonly used.
We hope to be doing some testing with cork in the near future too, super excited! 👍⛵️
@@SailHub true about stainless. no material is perfect; the oceans are very unforgiving. AL performs best for me. I shall keep an eye on your boats.
@@robgrune3284 too true!
Cool, keep in touch 👍
@@SailHub for me, the key to an AL yacht is to use AL only for everything to the extent possible. I would never use AL for a sail boat; too many different metals must be used, and all in contact with each other. AL works well for me, because I operate power yachts, and I can minimise the use of other metals, and all metals can be well isolated/insulated from each other. to the extent possible, I keep all tools, cords, washers, etc in covered wooden boxes. keeps the engine room more tidy, too. and, all fasteners, tubes, etc are either AL or plastic. all to the extent possible.
@robgrune3284 hey Rob, definitely some good advice there! It’s good to see more manufacturers supporting the aluminium boat market by producing gear that doesn’t cause galvanic hell!
We have a little project starting next year where we will highlight some of these new yet basic innovations!
Cheers for sharing your words 👍⛵️
So torn between an Alubat and a Neel. Now in PNW, and in these waters, Alubat for sure. I will most likely go south with a Neel. I saw Alubat made few cats but out of my league.
Hey! Great place to be and not a bad decision to be pondering on either! Let us know what you go for and why 👍
When it comes to the sea and boats, I prefer to be old-fashioned.😂
I was born in 1982 in a 40-foot Bristol Channel Pilot Cutter (1980) that my father built from wood. My father passed away, but the boat he built toured the world 5 times and is still my brother's only sailboat in a very well-maintained condition.
We are very pleased with our 2007-built sailboat Amel, on which we cruised the world for 5 years, and I think we will inherit it to our grandchildren.
Aluminum boat? Maybe if we want to enter the glaciers, but other than that, never.
Enjoy the Amel, great boats. As for the Bristol cutter… as a wooden boat builder I love them too!
I'd be constantly worried about working in the boat. Maybe designs are different, but my boat has some bilge areas under the engine that are impossible to get a hand into. Dropping a nut, bolt or screw is bad enough without worrying that it's going to galvanically corrode a hole through the hull. And what about cutting stranded copper wire and accidentally having a few little strands end up in the bilge.
😂 really, it’s not quite like that. It really amazing how this rumour appears to have become common belief.
As a general rule i take as an aluminium catamaran owner. When cutting wires i try to cut them out side. If that fails i have a towel or large rag then a tupper ware box try to catch everything. If i miss some just do a good clean with the vaccuum afterwards no worries. In the engine room we put a barrier coat under the engine where visabily is difficult but give it manual check every week.
Ive had 3 boats and absolutley love my aluminium catamaran. Id never go back to grp.
@@Floatingnestsirius Interested to know more about the barrier coat you applied to the engine bay floor. I also have an AL boat - 42ft French boat that we are rebuilding. I am also going to put a barrier coat on the engine bay floor and interested in what you used?
Used total boat alu barrier coat. But i think any epoxy barrier would work. Im no expert by any means.
@@Floatingnestsirius Thanks for the heads up. I am thinking of putting down a polyurea (think pick up truck load bin liner) or a flexible PU. Def need a barrier coat on the engine bay floor - my boat had some serious corrosion issues where the the wet exhaust system was leaking (D2-55D engine - yeah Volvo suck!!) - we had to put in a few patches and plates in the engine bay floor - the advice I was given (when I was uneducated about ALU) was to leave the ALU bare so it is in touch with oxygen to form the passivation layer it needs to protect itself from corrosion. Problem with that is, in a place like the engine bay floor where you cant really see too well is that fluids that have leaked out of the engine are in direct contact with the ALU plate and it then corrodes. My view is that its better to put down a barrier coat so that any fluids cannot possibly touch the ALU plate. The key is in the prep of the plate that will receive the barrier coat. I am sandblasting the interior plate and then applying International Paints Intergard 269 ALU etch primer then a yet to be determined Polyurethane OR an epoxy - but the epoxy must be a flexible formula so that is does not crack over time. Its very tricky to work all this out unless you have an expert ALU guy to advise you - I dont so learning the hard way and paying for it !! - although I feel i could work as an ALU consultant now after the sheer amount of correction work we had to do (my boat is a Garcia)
How noisy are aluminium yachts? I know aluminium plate say 6.5 meters fishing boats are way noisier than a my 6.5 meter fibreglass boat.
Oh they can be noisy alright but you really need to insulate them anyway due to the heat sink properties of aluminium. I believe cork is the best insulation at present and it’s a fantastic sound insulator too which is why we chose to use it for our podcast van you can see here; th-cam.com/video/zXXzXpD3_ng/w-d-xo.htmlsi=pNAQWkjU9r_I_SUG
yes
Yes what ??
Hey, I think he is answering to the thumbnail question as in… Ses, it is superior!
Hey Andy, Yes!!! Cheers for your thoughts fella👍
How do Aluminium Bronze and Aluminium when it comes to electrolysis ?
Hi Mark, in short.. they don’t like each other!
Bronze is a terrible metal when it touches ALU. Interestingly the metal that causes the least amount of issues touching ALU is galvanised.
05:30 "Galvanic corrosion is aluminiums nemesis." Well said.
Cheers!! 👍
Every material has its pros and cons. I'll take ALU with its issues thanks !
👍
need a good surveyor while alloy experience while boat out of the water
That would be sensible. It’s worth noting that in our experience finding a good surveyor for aluminium can actually be quite hard.
The fact that Aluminium is ductile is one of its major advantages. It’s also environmentally friendly…
Hi Mike, it sure is, it’s brilliant! Only thing is, it’s expensive.
Dr. of what ???
Hey, as in her TH-cam title, she is a Vet.
This lady reminds me of August Ames. I enjoy watching her speak about sailboats, I could probably listen all day 😅
Careful, you will make her blush!
But isn't carbon fibrer just plastic, uno some ⛵ like the Lagoon 40 is a plastic boat?
Hi, thanks for your comment.
The answer is no, carbon is not plastic and it’s not like the fibreglass in the lagoons etc. Carbon is its own thing and it conducts electric and it has a static voltage of its own.
As fibre glass does not conduct electricity, it does not effect metals in the galvanic table, due to the very high conductivity of carbon it does.
A big problem we can find is with carbon boats and stainless chainplates, there’s a reason we don’t see this technique used very much these days - the chainplates often suffer.
@@SailHub Okay thanks 👍
what you are thinking about is the epoxy - "plastic boats" can also be thought about as fiber-reinforced plastic - the traditional material being mats of woven glass, glass is non-conducting and so is epoxy.. = insulator.
Carbon fiber on the other hand is, well carbon which is conductive, like a pencil essentially.
*there are a lot of other materials also, from hemp fibers via rock based glass alternatives.
@Sailing360 legend! You nailed it👍
they said, al uu min ee um. 🙂
Almunininum, Almuumium, Aluumioom, Metal, that’s the one 👍😂
Dr Sheddy, 😂
She’s a legend mate, you should check out some of her videos! 👌
I will, good vid btw. @@SailHub
@bobbuilder5362 cheers Bob 👍
Steel is stronger when welded , aluminum welds are weaker than parent metal .
Hey Philip, thanks for the contribution! Yes your right!
The reason that it still works is that it is more than strong enough to withstand significant impact. The the base metal is more malleable so it often bends rather than cracking the welds. As in a weld test when the material and weld is folded in a press.
This is the case for most aluminium boats under impact anyhow.
The good thing about 5083 is that its welds are the strongest of the non heat treated aluminiums after welding. The problem with cracking generally occurs with poor welding - hot cracking can occur due to improper weld cooling.
My ALU boat builder/welder tells me the weld is stronger then the original plate. 5083 plate/TIG/5356 filler wire/Argon (of course) and man oh man does that argon bill add up!!!
@jimjones7821 so it’s the heat affected zone of the 5083 that becomes weaker after welding. As for the Argon… tell me about it! 😂
You two are slightly awkward speakers, BUT the content is SUPERB and presented in an understandable way. Bravo!
Aluminum Oxide protects the Aluminum in the same way that Chromium Oxide protects stainless steel. (Chromium is the key element of stainless steel alloy.) The Oxides make them highly corrosion resistant. The technical term is passivation; the surface becomes passive and not active to corrosion.
ALL boats that have more than one metal in contact with water have galavanic corrosion, including plastic boats that have any two dissimilar alloys in contact with the water. That includes steel, naval bronze, etc., fittings, driveshafts, any throughhulls, etc. Just like any boat with more than two types of metals, Zincs are used on Aluminum boats to control galvanic corrosion. So really this aspect is no different from any other boat whether its hull is wood, steel, plastic composite, etc.
Hahah! Thanks fella, I will take that as a compliment 😂. It’s quite hard having random questions thrown at you and answering them in front of the world… it wasn’t staged or scripted answers, just what fell off my boatbuilder tongue.. That’s why it’s not perfect!
@@SailHub It was as close to perfect as one is likely to get most of the time, so it was a compliment. Please keep up the great videos!
@LoanwordEggcorn thanks! That means a lot to us! 👍
I really liked the content👍👍 , info was exellent, and the interveiw was very covincing. mal4821 is right on aluminium canoe experience. foam insulation could hepl the noise part.
Hi Herbert! Thanks so much for the comment!
Yeah, noisy boats.. we’re big into natural insulation where possible, spray cork being a winner for noise and damp , it’s great to see it being offered from bigger brands like KM these days too!
@@SailHub how much insulation does the cork add and at what thickness ? Big problem here is I cant fin spray cork - only 3mm cork sheet - so will probably use an adhesive to stick the cork sheets down (after trimming to size to fit the spot it will be glued to the hull). Will be a big time consuming task though to stick cork sheets to a 42ft hull !!
@jimjones7821 hey Jim, the insulation is pretty impressive, we did an episode in it that may be of use,
th-cam.com/video/zXXzXpD3_ng/w-d-xo.htmlsi=HdZuNq4w9zkbtuMD
We did the van out with it for a test, we will be doing some proper tests with it soon but I must be honest, it’s super impressive.
Send us an email, info@sail-hub and I can help you sort your spray cork out. Cheers, Chris
No one has mentioned that Aluminium gets weaker when welded (weld seems)Welding weakens the heat-treated aluminum in the vicinity of the weld, called the heat-affected zone (HAZ), reducing the strength by approximately 40 percent. Any aluminum specifier or designer must account for the weakened state of the welded members. Conversley steel gets stronger at the point of weld.
Hey Leo, it’s a video for beginners, it’s just a basic overview for those curios. Your right though, this is the case! The metal is weakened after welding. However it’s accounted for in the design process so unless your drawing up your own plans we did not think it was worth mentioning.
We will cover it in an in depth video later - we’re also going to do one on stainless at some point as it seems there are a lot of people “professionally” welding stainless in an incorrect manor!
Thanks for pointing it out though, folks will certainly find your comment super interesting! That’s for sure! 👍
No, steel at the HAZ is also weaker. That's why when we destructive test a weld, it must fail in the parent plate and not the weld. I class aluminum a better slightly over steel just for the rust protection.
Perhaps these days laser welding may mitigate this somewhat.
@michaela5311 maybe?! I’ve no experience, have you?
@@SailHub no but the weld penetration is much better and quicker so as to not heat up the material surrounding the weld. Amazing to watch, very quick and clean welds with the new tech.
Still don’t understand why no one builds boats out of BRONZE. It doesn’t corrode, welds cleaner than aluminum or steel, and you can plate the surface below waterline with pure copper.
Yup, it’s a great material and there has been a good amount of boats built from it. I think the only downsides are the huge cost and weight issue.
@@SailHub It weighs about the same as steel, but does not corrode and so stays the same thickness over generations of time. Yes, it’s costly, but what yacht isn’t costly?
@christopherpardell4418 steel is such a weight too, many are out of by this, surprisingly it’s not just the maintenance. As for the price I’d bronze… the price is quite literally obscene.
@@SailHub I see a LOT of obscenely expensive yachts being built. Just the interior appointments exceed the hull cost by a significant amount.
@christopherpardell4418 as a boatbuilder I really don’t see this being the case. Interior fit outs are one thing but the hull build is the main expense and if you more than quadruple this from the beginning you end up with a really expensive yacht.
As mentioned earlier there have been many built over the years, they are all superb, albeit a little slow and not light air sailors but they are strong and lost forever, they also don’t need antifowl which is why they bronze hulls were trialled for shipping. Despite the haul out, the antifowl costs, maintenance savings and the fuel savings (due to a generally much cleaner bottom) the material still did not make financial sense. Quite remarkable really, I was really surprised by this myself, there’s been a number of papers written about this over the years yet it still surprises me.
I think that, unlike plastic boats (which happily destroy the oceans with the blessing of self-righteous auto-proclaimed Kool Green TH-camrs) aluminum hulls have a real architectural skeleton backbone.
Plastic boats need benches, molded surfaces to strengthen rigidity :)
Couldn’t agree more! For us it’s a simple choice, not saying there aren’t other good options but aluminium is our preferred choice.
I would never choose aluminum for a saltwater environment.
Interesting.
Educate yourself before speaking up with this nonsense
@jimjones7821 I run a fleet of seaplanes in the pacific ocean. aluminum and saltwater suck. end of story
@@foodandsleep2417 not if you prep your ALU plate correctly with the right etch primers/epoxy/Trilux33 anti foul (although you dont need the anti foul on a seaplane)
@jimjones7821 well, you're entitled to your opinion even if it's wrong
Is superior till it fail.
Couldn’t agree more, just like everything else!
@@SailHub And it will fail ultimately because it has no safe fatigue limit , which steel does .
What’s a safe fatigue limit?
11:07
Sorry, I’m a bit lost here - 11:07 is the end of the video.
@@SailHub
No idea what happened using an alien Apple phone … so I probably tried adding a link and something else got picked up . Sorry I may remember.
It's Aluminum🤣
Sure it’s not Aloooominum?😂👍
Aluminum, electricity and saltwater don't mix. The electrolysis can be a battle that can't be won by any novice. It takes huge knowledge with a strong electrical and electronics background, as well as welding skills and surface prep and anti-corrosion practices that include surface treatments. If you are able to conquer all of that, then the deafening of the hull slap noise and banging (about 4-10 times that of fiberglass hulls), weather on a passage in more than a rough chop or at anchor, will end up driving you crazy and eventually selling it, hence the reason they are so cheap to buy on the after-market and brutal to sell, even after you dump the price down to a painful level. So... good luck with that!
Hi, certainly some good knowledge with aluminium there.
Tricky material, in my opinion it’s the best material for a boat, however thy comes with with one big caveat - it MUST be in the right hands, otherwise it’s the probably the worst material of all!
sound can be reduced via insulation. true, too many AL boats are not well made, and become difficult to sell. true, too many owners are very ignorant of AL, and so run into a range of troubles. poor quality construction and ignorant owners can create problems for any boats of any material.
Welding Aluminium weakens the heat-treated aluminum in the vicinity of the weld, called the heat-affected zone (HAZ), reducing the strength by approximately *40 percent* Any aluminum specifier or designer must account for the weakened state of the welded members.
Hey Rob, thanks for sharing your knowledge! Your definitely right there about the heat treated alloys, the only thing is that we don’t heat treat boats. We generally use 5000 series which isn’t made with heat treatment in mind and the 6000 when we use it is used for structural parts and it is not heat treated. Your dammed right though, when we heat the alloy they loose strength and we need to account for that, the filler material is often weaker again and that is another consideration.
The video was I tested as a brief highlight to the fact aluminium boats are not for beginners.. there’s so much to talk about on a grand scale with the material - we may do some more in depth videos next year about it 👍.
@@SailHub hahaha...not for beginners - my ALU boat is my first boat and after I get her back in the water then I have to learn to sail. I am a total sail boat novice - but i know enough to know I want an ALU boat. @ Rob.....As for being cheap - really? Where ?? I searched for a long time to find an ALU boat at a reasonable price. I searched even longer to find a discussion about ALU boats as has been discussed here - there is just not that much info out there about ALU boats - lots of myths and old wives tales but not much practical hands on experience. Repairing an 80's ALU hull will teach you all you need to know - ask me how I know ;-)
All US coast guard boats and many fishing boats are made of aluminum and the expect a 25 years of service a well maintain aluminum sailboat will surpass your sailing life whit-out any problème.
For sure, they should lay an age! Or many, many more. Just check out Pen Duik 6!
This is a very pro aluminium blog. My experience is somewhat different. Aluminium is not a great building material once it ages. The corrosion is a constant battle. You struggle to keep paint on. Give me GRP any day
Thanks Tim,
Yeah, the oxidation is a pain however… don’t paint it? Problem solved.
Grp is fab, all materials have the positives and negatives, it’s a personal choice really 👍
I had a 33foot sloop aluminum never ever again.
@@HoferAdam-xz9xz oh no! What happened?
@@SailHub galvanicelectrolyse eating my saildrive away.that was just one issue.
If you have a aluminum boat bay, the book from this English matalurgyst James Warren it called corrosion on yachts.
its Aluminum not Aulmenuim
Don’t be silly😆
@@SailHub am waiting on wooden boats please ,, as I am wanting to purchase one to restore
@USA4thewin Nice! I trained as a wooden boat builder when I first started.
I love wooden boats and we must make you a video! In fact we lived on a wooden boat whilst restoring one. I’m looking forward making the video, hopefully we will manage on in the new year for you!
You did not speak about thermal and noise insulation, very weak with aluminium
Hi, there was quite a bit we didn’t go into detail on too, we will cover it in later videos as it would make a single one too long.
As for insulation, if you by metal vs fibre, you are generally going to have work harder for great results. However it is possible to achieve great results and we must also remember the aluminium insulation stigma comes from boats with no insulation that is quite common.
For reference, my recommendation right now would be between 4mm and 8mm (depending where you are going) of projected cork straight into the hull. It has amazing sound and heat insulating properties. 👍
If you accidentally drop a penny into the bilge you will eventually have a hole in your aluminum hull - electrolysis is a biatch! Aluminum hulls are uncomfortable noisy in choppy seas. Aluminum is highly conductive and it also attracts condensation. Because of this, aluminium boats are notoriously cold during cold seasons. Antifouling is also much more expensive and complicated to apply to aluminium. I wouldn’t touch it with a 10 foot “aluminum” pole.
Fantastic, thanks for commenting Marc. It seem that a lot of people believe the same things!!
Over the next year we will be trialing these myths, as a boat builder I generally feel that these things need to be proved. There’s far to many people saying this, that and the other without sufficient knowledge and to be quite Frank it’s scaring people!
Everyday people are becoming petrified of all hull types. It’s bonkers!
Sailing in a giant anode. Not for me thanks. I'll stick to using aluminium foil in the kitchen.
😂🤦♂️ give it time..
I design and build boats for a living check out my dinghy on my TH-cam channel. Fiberglass is the ultimate material for boat building . If you want it stronger just make it thicker and reduce spans between bulkheads and stringers. It will still be in good condition in 100 years. The original fibreglass boats are still in serviceable condition and we now build with far superior materials and methods,.
@@SailHub
It’s pronounced {A-LUUM-I-NUM} !!!!! 🤷🏼♂️🙄🤷🏼♂️🙄🤷🏼♂️
Lets not be silly now… Where’s the challenge in that? 😂
Aluminium is NOT harder to weld than steel. It's just that not as many people learn to weld it. It's much faster than steel to weld and because it freezes faster you don't end up with molten metal dropping on you in positional welding. And you definitely should never weld through the oxide layer. That man has clearly never heard of sandpaper or a grinder.
Ok, I will take your word for that…
As for me, after all my years of tig welding professionally I can safely say that aluminium is harder to weld, especially when it’s old. In general I would suggest it’s just not as forgiving as steel manly due to porosity.
As for not welding through the oxide layer… we have no choice, it’s pretty much instantaneous. Why do we use AC for aluminium?
Also… maybe worth checking out the materials in a grinding wheel and sandpaper…. They are not compatible with good aluminium welding. Stainless steel brush my friend 👍
@@SailHub Old aluminium can be hard to weld, but then so is old steel, so not much difference. Nearly all my metal boatbuilding has been aluminium, and I find it easier to work with and weld than steel, though I think steel is easier to weld in the very thin guages. Having said that why would anyone use very thin aluminium plate anyway.
Hey,
I do appreciate what you are saying here. I hope you understand this is a basics video, as in for those learning about something new. Im not hear to tell people how to weld and I’m sure you find it easy!
I do rekon though, if you asked a room full of welders what type of welding to use where and what material was harder they would all suggest mig welding will be similar but you have more settings to master, tig welding aluminium is generally a little more difficult - especially if you are being tested for porosity and penetration.
Basically, the general belief across the world is that aluminium needs a bit more skill, I’m pretty sure that some quick google searching would back that up, and that’s what people need to know before buying an aluminium boat. They need to know how it may effect them. I certainly wouldn’t suggest to a complete amateur to go and weld an aluminium boat together, the material is thicker and they probably won’t manage the penetration… A steel one, quite possibly.
The gear costs more as the AC equipment is more expensive, it is also hard to find some one to fix it in many places… I had to send some one sailing for 200 miles in Spain of all places as my set was down. That’s what is important here.
I’m just trying to keep it broad spectrum and simple for people, there’s a lot to learn outside of the welding, it’s not worth me over complicating things.
I hope you understand.
Cheers,
Chris
@@SailHub fair enough.
@deerfootnz cheers, thanks for understanding. I would love to see your work to though - I love a metal boat, they just oooze fabrication class!
Thought aluminium and salt was a bad mix with aluminium the loser. Reason not allowed to put salt on runways during winter months because it can seriously damage the planes.
Hi Geof, it all depends on the grade of alloy and the application. So if you have certain grades in certain environments they will not like salt, usually due to galvanic reactions between other materials on other parts of the structure.
With a properly built boat you should not have this issue as there should be nothing else is attached to it, i.e there is no landing gear etc and dissimilar metals are not attached to the hull.
A well built aluminium boat should last for ever. Basically, don’t buy aluminium from someone who doesn’t know about it!
It's clear you don't know enough about aluminum to talk about it in the way you (try) to do. It's clear when you mention welding, corrosion/oxidization, galvanic and electrical corrosion etc. You're guessing, or have an idea, but you're in no position to come with advice. If don't know, don' t go into details, you should have kept it more basic than you did.
Hey up, for reference… it’s my job. There are many ways to do many things and there is generally always a way to make something work.
The hardest thing we find with Sail Hub is explaining things at a level that people want.
If we go into great detail it’s just too much. General we try to provide a place to start, a footing to give a general direction to go and research further.
The truth of it seems that people who know enough about it just don’t watch TH-cam videos about things they already know.
Cheers,
Chris
@@SailHub Ok ok, I like your answer. Maybe it just came out that way, I know it can be hard to phrase it correctly.
👍
It an animal lover, especially on the high seas. I won’t be subscribing.
Ok Duke, it would be really good to help us improve our videos if you could help us learn how to make them better for you. Cheers, Chris