A new cool thing i found in the beta is that if you block a continuous beam attack (such as balahara's spit attack) your hunter will hold the shield up and you can slowly push forward against it. If you're close, you can then perform a special shield bash to make the monster flinch. It delt decent damage for a shield attack.
@@devilsandchargersfan385 Disgustingly epic indeed. It's one of those ''Omfg! I wish we were able to do this ages ago!'' feelings and I am sad that despite being someone who uses lance a whole lot, I didn't play with it as much as I thought I was going to before the beta ended : T
It's the Clash, but for beam attacks rather than successive blocks. The camera zooms in the same way as when a Clash is triggered, and you have to mash triangle to beat the monster's face in, just like with a clash. In the fifth trailer, there's a moment where a GS user is trying to block the Black Flame's flamethrower attack, but he fails and is pushed backwards. I'm 90% sure it's the same thing, but they either didn't mash triangle to show it failing, or GS can't win that kind of clash against higher level monsters. Hopefully lance can.
14:20 the payback thrust may feel weaker than you’d think, but, it’s because the power guard is supposed to ABSORB incoming damage, and power up the follow-up attack. So, it would make payback thrust stronger if you had taken a hit or two during the block. It’s too late to check, but, I believe that was in the hunter’s weapon notes for Lance. It’s definitely been a re-learning curve :s like fighting against my muscle memory and experience to adjust.
@@Swordphobic Regular Guard instead counters with a shield bash whenever you land a guard correctly. Which you can also counter with a powerful leaping thrust by inputing the Strong Attack button. (Mapped to B for me.)
I think the counter should be possible after any of the high trust attacks . it will still take way more time than the old counter that you do mid attacks before . and they can nerf it's damage a little when excuted on the first attacks and keep the last one as it is . as it is now i was rarely able to pull the counter off .
I didn’t know that charge counter was actually a counter and not just a charged thrust. I’m excited to get that timing down. Hopefully they increase hitstop, damage, and reduce recovery to better flow from attack to attack
Oh I didnt know holding down would start jousting, Thought they didnt include it but nice to see it was added As for holding shield while walking forward, that movement saved my ass so many times for stamina recovery, it makes no sense to remove it..... For wide sweep, i like to use it with focus to change direction as animation is pretty wide and i dont feel bad missing a poke cause i cant turn fast enough
@@nimmord.12 Current lance mains will leave, but with the changes they made, it looks like other weapon mains are ready to give lance a shot. The remaining 3 Lance mains will be ready to welcome them. Haha
Old school lance mains will always stay with lance. I joined the lance mains in Rise and loved the instablock domination or repeated leaping thrusting. With hit feedback and those mechanics removed, i am sadly not a lance main in Wilds.
@@kazetsune I’m new to MonHun tbh. Started when Rise was on switch. Bought rise and sunbreak after wilds got announced. Spent 200+ hours just using defender lance all the way to master rank. 0 regrets and best decision of my life! 😂
@@LocherYT I’m hella new as a MonHun player and Lance main and I volunteer as a greeter when fellow lance mains comeback… Kind funny when I played the Beta I was the only Lance user in the Lobby. xD
So, they're trying to make Lance more of a "counter weapon" but with different flavors? Counter on regular guard (not only on perfect), increased damage to payback thrust when you get hit, charged counter being contender for one of the highest hitting moves if you block an attack while doing it... I like the style.
Shield bash alowing you to redirect is a nice change since the Bash is useless, We have it just so the Leaping thrust doest displaces us too much so having a "useless" buffer move that alows for 360º poking is actually very nice
This is the weapon I'm most on the fence about. I feel like Risebreaks's Lance moveset (not including wirebug skills) was the best it's been and that they literally could have brought that over and it would have been the better version and more in line in terms of options and responses to situations that we're seeing from the other weapons. The counter charge only being available as a fourth poke is rough.
I found my self never leaving focus mode tbh. -Charge counter I been talking to people and people been liking the idea of having a press and hold mechanic on the High Thrust button So when you tap the high thrust button you perform a high thrust but holding it lets you do a counter thrust. pressy much a idea to weave into your combo easier. it can work the same as it does now but I thought this press and hold mechanic would help a lot for Lance. -But yeah I find the mobility on the lance to be lacking and with it's old ways of playing to be lacking on damage now. -I found chip damage on perfect counter seems to not be there. -I think they are trying to make high thrust and mid thrust different as well. I already did my survey. So sadly I can't change my survey. I did put in the Leaping thrust and counter thrust giving them a way to make it feel better.
16:50 Absolutely, I used to do that all the time in world to get mounts in multiplayer while the monster is moving in a different direction. 19:30 Perfect guard also lets you do a dash attack after a clunky slow forward stab, and it's really... unwiedly? The damage is pretty decent (idk if it still is good "DPS" wise) as I think it sets you on max speed dash attack, but it's very hard to aim the thing properly. It's just about the same move as they show in the weapon trailer at 0:36 though they do it from a power guard. Also feels weird to not have as much of a focus on high pokes anymore, specially as depending on how you set up the 3-hit combo for *some reason* mid poke does more damage than high poke on the final strike. And it's not consistent as when I tried three mid pokes the third one was the exact same damage, same when you do 3 high pokes they all do the same. But 2x high into mid poke has the mid poke doing more damage. Doing High->Wide Sweep->Mid poke also had the mid poke doing more damage. But that wasn't the case ever when finishing with a high poke. I'm not entirely certain I understand it yet either.
Leaping into sweeping into high thrust into three poke into charge back into the same combo seems to be the highest motion value and the best looking combo
I've got the luck to have a superb sense of rhythm, and must as a lancer say that a steady actual framerate will be very important with Wilds (PC). The internal engine tick-rate is tied to actual framerate. If you get it running poorly enough, it will be in genuine slow-motion, including calculations of how long your hunt takes. (Source: My own experiments, filmed with phone on a hilariously weak PC)
5:30 The inconsistency between high thrust and mid thrust is really annoying. It's like playing a piece of music but the tempo is subtly off depends on what note you are playing... 12:10 Charged Counter being locked behind 3 thrusts is incomprehensible when Lance is supposed to be the fast reactive counter weapon... Especially if you compare it to greatsword's offset rising slash, which's readily available, and does a shit tons more damage if successfully topples.
@@frescopino7866 Having to commit 3 thrust before countering make it feel more clunky and unreliable rather than predictive. Rise brought a lot of wonderful counter-mechanics I'm a bit disappointed as a lance main seeing all others flashy weapons getting counters and parrys as well while counterwise the lance didn't get that much
@@YoruNohara doing any three thrusts brings you to that counter, you can really just see the monster while you're attacking and go down that path. You should always be attacking with the lance anyway, especially now that the regular block is so fast between attacks.
You can literally guard after any poke now though which essentially functions as the same mechanic. It even gives a quick shield bash. Take some getting used to but it feels like old lance when you get the muscle memory down.
I just feel like the optimal way to play lance here feels very un-lance like in my opinion. The charged counter is where your big damage lies and being able to pre-empt your attack strings to do charge counter level 3 is the best damage you get. Suddenly Lance is now great sword. urk.
I just noticed watching your video that the shield attack from victiory thrust has a guard point. I don't find it's lacking reach as anoying as it not having as much cleave as the focus strikes of other weapons. It just makes it that you have to hit the intended part directly and hope nothing gets in the way
I'm a hammer main since the beginning in gen 2 although can play every weapon in world competently and got 400 hunts on lance albeit vs 2500 with hammer. Lance changes were so fun for me that I went back to world and made an only lance character. Like you said high pokes being way slower feels bad, especially the 3rd one. Also I REALLY think the new charged counter thrust should be an offset attack. It's already hard enough to time.
during the charge counter you can see your shield glow white. this is your counter window. you can see it at the start of the dash attack as well. this is the perfect guard window.
It's kinda funny how they just continue to miss the point in Lance. We went from base World, where it was probably the best it's been, for Iceborne to completely fuck it over with monsters getting bullshitty AoEs and movement improvements and unblockable moves. To then go to Rise, to completely miss the point by giving it some unga bunga moves nobody wanted. To basically revert it to World and completely fuck over how it functions at a base level. And yet they continue to keep improving nonsense like LS and Bow functionally.
I love how it feels in Wilds. After going back to World I missed it. Key is to use mid thrusts and stay in focus mode. The ability to change direction constantly and step between any pokes feels so nice. Also the recovery from mid thrust to block and instant counter feels good
@@Forcejuusoagreed, it took a few hunts to get used to it but it feels so much more fluid in wilds. But I also really liked striker style lance and instablock so I might be in the minority there. Base world lance is still S tier for me though. Seems they took inspiration from all those styles and put it into one fluid move set.
To be fair my guy, the ability to use both armor sets probably limits the slider capability on the hunter body, as much as it would be neat to get more in depth on bodytypes, even if they're just preset bodytypes.
I think I understood what you were saying about Perfect Guard, so forgive me if I didn't - but the auto shield bash that occurs after blocking is tied to knockback, not the perfect guard. Regular Guard will still cause the auto bash, but if you're knocked back too far, even if you Perfect Guard, you won't. Tangentially important - the more levels of Guard we get, the better this will be.
Thats me everytime I'm on gunlance and want to switch to lance because of how useless the shield was in older games 😂 been a gunlance main since mhfu and im finally happy to be maining a good weapon for once
@@aruzail That was why I actually liked lance OVER GL in IB/SB. I got annoyed with not actually using the shield for anything, and liked lance better since the counters were so good (I'm in the minority here, but I LOVED the insta-block into cross slash play style from SB lol). But yeah now in Wilds, I was just like, "Oh cool GL gets good counters and actually USES the shield??? It's just better lance now." 🤣
Gunlance feels great but the animation commitments are longer. I've been using GL for multiplayer since those moves have flinch free, and it actively benefits from not having aggro whereas lance still gets trippled pretty easily and feels bad when you're not in 100% aggro. Solo on the other hand, lance feels great. Especially being able to micro-position with focus mode.
@@valeereon9954 YEAH i thought of the exact same thing, i also wish one of the counters in wilds for lance was cross slash, i love that move so much since MHGU! Thankfully rise GL was really good, and wilds was even better!
I don't know if you mentioned it, but it may be possible to use victory thread as a perfect guard/offset mechanic does it not? The shield flash gives me the impression it can block?
I've found that focus mode is always dependent on where your camera is pointing, and benefits from prepositioning. You can look one way while attacking another, then hit focus in the middle of your attacks to change to the new direction as if you were holding focus the entire time and redirected manually. That said, it is feeling like all the tricks you can do with focus mode means that mouse and keyboard players will have a distinct advantage over controller players this time, though probably not a big one. Also, there's a bug I noticed for lance. If you change movement settings to be based on your character rather than the camera (so when your hunter is looking right compared to the camera, and you roll while pushing down on the stick, you'll roll to the left of the camera, or backwards to the hunter), the control suddenly changes to camera based movement while you're doing a lance dash. Very annoying, though a niche problem. Pretty sure Capcom's already aware and just hasn't gotten around to fixing it for the beta.
I'm not sure if it was just bad timing, but guard poking explosive barrels wasn't working for me either. I tried 3 times and was blown back every time.
This is a weird thing with World (and now Wilds) that barrels instantly explodes the moment you hit it. Hence why you can't guard poke it. Meanwhile in Rise (and old gen too) you can poke the barrel bomb and it will have a delay between it's explosion and the moment you hit it. So you can safely guard poke the barrel bomb and actually guard it.
Not bad at al about the weps being more slow and methodical, cuz honestly in Rise save for a couple they all felt like the same speed; which was anime fast at times
As a lance main, I have some concerns: 1. Counter Thrust should not be removed. This move has been integrated into the lance move set since the beginning of the series, so I can understand why most of us lance mains feel it’s so strange to consider its removal. 2. Perfect Guard seems to lack a strong follow-up attack, unlike Rise’s insta-block. 3. I see no reason for me to use Perfect Guard now, especially when my lance is much more mobile. 4. Perfect Guard chip damage? Knock-back? Another reason why I won’t be using Perfect Guard. 5. Charge Counter feels like a death wish, to be honest. There’s no way anyone can use it to reliably counter an attack. It would be perfect if it auto-triggered once you receive an attack, with a shorter charge time-maybe it would work! Sorry if I sound a bit negative, but man, they’re missing the fundamentals of the weapon a lot, and I think they’ll correct this with the expansion after the game’s release. Thanks for your video!
As to high thrust being slower. i think the though process behind that is having a choice between doing more damage but bein open for longer or doing a bit less damage and bein safer. In my opinion in worlds High Thrust was basically the way to go unless it wouldnt hit. Making mid thrust almost useless. (Unless im missing some crucial Difference here but if i look at the guides here on youtube they basically all say: use high thrust its more damage.) Given that. A change to one of the thrusts was needed to actually make both viable. i generally like the changes. Having a standard counter just with block is neat and way less commiting that the world counterthrust. Guard poke seems to be way more viable now since its faster. And the charge counter is a thing you really have to learn to make good use of. Having high damage with a lot of commitment. To me the changes feel like an iterative progression compared to worlds.
Thing about high thrust vs mid thrust in old games is even if you do all mids you dont really lose all that much damage. It's much better to be more consistent on not missing. If you miss once that's equivalent to doing like 10 mid thrusts instead of high.
You use mid thrusts as it will definitely hit the monster infront of you and high thrusts once you are able to discern whether your high thrust will hit the monster or not. Lance's damage potential is pitiful so each and every little bit helps. Lance players are in constant pressure to keep up the damage uptime with continuous pokes. With the counter now close to inaccessible, the lance will once again does what it was designed to do: tank and poke
@@DTPandemonium The question is: Why loose damage at all? If !aim" is the only decerninc difference between mid an high it diesnt make much sense to give both attacks different motion values. If you look at other weapons you usually have quite the diifference between Y and B attacks. Usually either: Fast and lower damage vs. slow an high damage or a big direction change. (Narrow attacks vs wide attacks. ) or a different mechanic (Like shelling for gunlance.) For lance though both attacks are almost the same. Compared to other weapons lance doesnt fit the design of: Y attacks Differ from B attacks. To fix that you either need to get rid of one of those Thrusts. For example: Making B a slap Combo. Or have B making shield attacks (blunt damage) Obviously that would be quite the drastic change. Changing the whole feel of the weapon. And quite a big risk. or you have to option to go the Faster Less damage vs. Slower higher damage route. Which the went in Wilds. The attacks are still basically almost the same. But you have to make a decision thats beyond just "can i hit it" which gives Mid Thrust more usecases.
You should note that the glow vinyl is great for unsanctioned glow rounds but it renders your discs illegal for sanctioned PDGA tournaments. So it's not the ideal solution unfortunately. Unless you keep separate vinyl glow discs you may be forced to remove the stickers to use them in normal tournament play.
I actually like all the changes but my only complaint is how weak the hits feels. There’s no hit lag and such a small sound that it makes the hits feel useless. World lance felt so much more meaty when you hit with it but it’s just missing in this version
I don't understand why they changed counter-thrust this much. Lance felt really clunky and under-powered to me in the beta. LS getting all the love again, feels bad.
Counter thrust became pretty useless when they added guard dash. It can be used exactly like counter guard, but better. Power guard replacing Counter thrust can still function exactly as it did before anyway, if your not trash and it absorbs hits to boost the follow up attack, way more depth here. Get gud buddy.
Old counter thrust is baked into regular guard. If you're not good with your timing then this is basically a worse counter thrust. Good players will find this better. The new Counter Thrust is now the Lance's TCS. It is dealing TCS levels of damage in the beta if you parry an attack with it. Yes, PARRY. It doesn't have guard frames. Your hit needs to connect to a monsters hit.
Jousting being the only good thing to come out of wilds Lance is kinda sad...... What's more sad is that it most likely won't get any changes by the full release.....
The soul and heart of lance is all about the convenience of blocking and dealing the lowest amount of damage. If you want to play lance solo (which you shouldnt) then expect really long quest timers.
The Lance has been so ignored and stagnant for such a long time, that when capcom shook things up with it, some Lance users went on an uprising. Haha For real though, they’ve made smart choices with the changes. There’s re-learning needed, yes and we lost the previous counter, but we gained so much mooooore.
Yeah I feel like I’m in the minority but I love the changes. Just takes some getting used to just guarding quickly instead of counter thrust but it’s so much smoother now. I think the playerbase will like it more when they get the timings right.
@ They’re just lazy or reject the idea of change. Which is expected. We’ve been asking for some improvements with the weapon. Now that we have it, they reject it. Haha. Lance mains need to get out of their comfort zones and be open to the change. Not be lazy and learn it. The weapon can never truly evolve if capcom stuck with the previous formula. Also, the weapon is dying. Always at the bottom 2% of weapon use. They need to make an effort in inviting others to pick up the weapon. Make it a bit flashier and add complexity to it.
@@kazetsune You're just being a condescending arse. The wilds lance is new, not better or worse, those depend on preference. The only thing you can definitively say is that the wilds lance is very different from the old lance, to the point that I and some other lance mains very much dislike it. If you disagree, good on you for having an opinion, but don't just disregard everyone else. I firmly believe this new lance is bad, and that if they wanted to evolve the lance this is very much the wrong direction(I can think of many other ways they could've evolved the lance that would likely increase it's popularity while keeping its base gameplay similar so the oldheads can enjoy it).
![LANCE SHOWCASE Details from a Lance VETERAN [Monster Hunter Wilds] #monsterhunterwilds #lance](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fn2MV8SZTlA/mqdefault.jpg)
![LANCE SHOWCASE Details from a Lance VETERAN [Monster Hunter Wilds] #monsterhunterwilds #lance](/img/tr.png)
A new cool thing i found in the beta is that if you block a continuous beam attack (such as balahara's spit attack) your hunter will hold the shield up and you can slowly push forward against it. If you're close, you can then perform a special shield bash to make the monster flinch. It delt decent damage for a shield attack.
That’s just disgustingly epic. Like a damn captain America scene
@@devilsandchargersfan385 Disgustingly epic indeed. It's one of those ''Omfg! I wish we were able to do this ages ago!'' feelings and I am sad that despite being someone who uses lance a whole lot, I didn't play with it as much as I thought I was going to before the beta ended : T
It's the Clash, but for beam attacks rather than successive blocks. The camera zooms in the same way as when a Clash is triggered, and you have to mash triangle to beat the monster's face in, just like with a clash.
In the fifth trailer, there's a moment where a GS user is trying to block the Black Flame's flamethrower attack, but he fails and is pushed backwards. I'm 90% sure it's the same thing, but they either didn't mash triangle to show it failing, or GS can't win that kind of clash against higher level monsters. Hopefully lance can.
14:20 the payback thrust may feel weaker than you’d think, but, it’s because the power guard is supposed to ABSORB incoming damage, and power up the follow-up attack. So, it would make payback thrust stronger if you had taken a hit or two during the block. It’s too late to check, but, I believe that was in the hunter’s weapon notes for Lance.
It’s definitely been a re-learning curve :s like fighting against my muscle memory and experience to adjust.
Can confirm that's how it works. Once took 2 hits from rey dou and it hit for almost 60 damage
It’s cool they effectively turned it into the counter super from Generations and Rise
Does that work with regular guard or only power guard?
@@Swordphobic Regular Guard instead counters with a shield bash whenever you land a guard correctly. Which you can also counter with a powerful leaping thrust by inputing the Strong Attack button. (Mapped to B for me.)
@honeychonav4027 you can also go into a dash poke straight from a perfect guard.
Best Lance video so far.
Fuck yeah, jousting! It's also good to know that we still have Guard Dash.
Lance was so damn fun in the beta. Perfect guard felt amazing especially getting multiple in a series of monster attacks.
I think the counter should be possible after any of the high trust attacks . it will still take way more time than the old counter that you do mid attacks before . and they can nerf it's damage a little when excuted on the first attacks and keep the last one as it is . as it is now i was rarely able to pull the counter off .
I didn’t know that charge counter was actually a counter and not just a charged thrust. I’m excited to get that timing down. Hopefully they increase hitstop, damage, and reduce recovery to better flow from attack to attack
Oh I didnt know holding down would start jousting,
Thought they didnt include it but nice to see it was added
As for holding shield while walking forward, that movement saved my ass so many times for stamina recovery, it makes no sense to remove it.....
For wide sweep, i like to use it with focus to change direction as animation is pretty wide and i dont feel bad missing a poke cause i cant turn fast enough
lovely, now we just need to be able to knock each other off our chickens and it's a whole new game!
Some are switching to gunlance, but I will just stick to lance.
At least someone could welcome them whenever they wanna go back to lance.
@@nimmord.12 Current lance mains will leave, but with the changes they made, it looks like other weapon mains are ready to give lance a shot. The remaining 3 Lance mains will be ready to welcome them. Haha
Old school lance mains will always stay with lance. I joined the lance mains in Rise and loved the instablock domination or repeated leaping thrusting. With hit feedback and those mechanics removed, i am sadly not a lance main in Wilds.
Lance for life.
@@kazetsune I’m new to MonHun tbh. Started when Rise was on switch. Bought rise and sunbreak after wilds got announced. Spent 200+ hours just using defender lance all the way to master rank.
0 regrets and best decision of my life! 😂
@@LocherYT I’m hella new as a MonHun player and Lance main and I volunteer as a greeter when fellow lance mains comeback…
Kind funny when I played the Beta I was the only Lance user in the Lobby. xD
The recovery on Leaping Thrust is what pains me the most about Wilds Lance. That and Perfect Guard.
So, they're trying to make Lance more of a "counter weapon" but with different flavors? Counter on regular guard (not only on perfect), increased damage to payback thrust when you get hit, charged counter being contender for one of the highest hitting moves if you block an attack while doing it... I like the style.
Shield bash alowing you to redirect is a nice change since the Bash is useless, We have it just so the Leaping thrust doest displaces us too much so having a "useless" buffer move that alows for 360º poking is actually very nice
This is the weapon I'm most on the fence about. I feel like Risebreaks's Lance moveset (not including wirebug skills) was the best it's been and that they literally could have brought that over and it would have been the better version and more in line in terms of options and responses to situations that we're seeing from the other weapons.
The counter charge only being available as a fourth poke is rough.
I found my self never leaving focus mode tbh.
-Charge counter I been talking to people and people been liking the idea of having a press and hold mechanic on the High Thrust button
So when you tap the high thrust button you perform a high thrust but holding it lets you do a counter thrust. pressy much a idea to weave into your combo easier. it can work the same as it does now but I thought this press and hold mechanic would help a lot for Lance.
-But yeah I find the mobility on the lance to be lacking and with it's old ways of playing to be lacking on damage now.
-I found chip damage on perfect counter seems to not be there.
-I think they are trying to make high thrust and mid thrust different as well.
I already did my survey. So sadly I can't change my survey. I did put in the Leaping thrust and counter thrust giving them a way to make it feel better.
yeah me too i switched to toggle instead of hold and was an awesome change
@@DRAGONalpha117 I'm on mouse and keyboard and having the ability to turn on dime and adjust to the monster so easily is crazy good.
16:50 Absolutely, I used to do that all the time in world to get mounts in multiplayer while the monster is moving in a different direction.
19:30 Perfect guard also lets you do a dash attack after a clunky slow forward stab, and it's really... unwiedly? The damage is pretty decent (idk if it still is good "DPS" wise) as I think it sets you on max speed dash attack, but it's very hard to aim the thing properly. It's just about the same move as they show in the weapon trailer at 0:36 though they do it from a power guard.
Also feels weird to not have as much of a focus on high pokes anymore, specially as depending on how you set up the 3-hit combo for *some reason* mid poke does more damage than high poke on the final strike. And it's not consistent as when I tried three mid pokes the third one was the exact same damage, same when you do 3 high pokes they all do the same. But 2x high into mid poke has the mid poke doing more damage. Doing High->Wide Sweep->Mid poke also had the mid poke doing more damage. But that wasn't the case ever when finishing with a high poke. I'm not entirely certain I understand it yet either.
One of the things I really like about Lance in this game is that guard dash can actually cancel animations if timed correctly
Leaping into sweeping into high thrust into three poke into charge back into the same combo seems to be the highest motion value and the best looking combo
I've got the luck to have a superb sense of rhythm, and must as a lancer say that a steady actual framerate will be very important with Wilds (PC). The internal engine tick-rate is tied to actual framerate. If you get it running poorly enough, it will be in genuine slow-motion, including calculations of how long your hunt takes. (Source: My own experiments, filmed with phone on a hilariously weak PC)
5:30 The inconsistency between high thrust and mid thrust is really annoying. It's like playing a piece of music but the tempo is subtly off depends on what note you are playing...
12:10 Charged Counter being locked behind 3 thrusts is incomprehensible when Lance is supposed to be the fast reactive counter weapon... Especially if you compare it to greatsword's offset rising slash, which's readily available, and does a shit tons more damage if successfully topples.
We have plenty of reactive counter options with the lance, nothing wrong with sneaking in a predictive counter too.
@@frescopino7866 Having to commit 3 thrust before countering make it feel more clunky and unreliable rather than predictive.
Rise brought a lot of wonderful counter-mechanics I'm a bit disappointed as a lance main seeing all others flashy weapons getting counters and parrys as well while counterwise the lance didn't get that much
@@YoruNohara doing any three thrusts brings you to that counter, you can really just see the monster while you're attacking and go down that path. You should always be attacking with the lance anyway, especially now that the regular block is so fast between attacks.
@@YoruNoharaIf it makes you feel any better, some weapons with Offset attacks have to set them up with combos too.
You can literally guard after any poke now though which essentially functions as the same mechanic. It even gives a quick shield bash. Take some getting used to but it feels like old lance when you get the muscle memory down.
I just feel like the optimal way to play lance here feels very un-lance like in my opinion. The charged counter is where your big damage lies and being able to pre-empt your attack strings to do charge counter level 3 is the best damage you get.
Suddenly Lance is now great sword. urk.
I just noticed watching your video that the shield attack from victiory thrust has a guard point. I don't find it's lacking reach as anoying as it not having as much cleave as the focus strikes of other weapons. It just makes it that you have to hit the intended part directly and hope nothing gets in the way
I'm a hammer main since the beginning in gen 2 although can play every weapon in world competently and got 400 hunts on lance albeit vs 2500 with hammer.
Lance changes were so fun for me that I went back to world and made an only lance character. Like you said high pokes being way slower feels bad, especially the 3rd one. Also I REALLY think the new charged counter thrust should be an offset attack. It's already hard enough to time.
I love it. This was meant to be
during the charge counter you can see your shield glow white. this is your counter window. you can see it at the start of the dash attack as well. this is the perfect guard window.
It's kinda funny how they just continue to miss the point in Lance. We went from base World, where it was probably the best it's been, for Iceborne to completely fuck it over with monsters getting bullshitty AoEs and movement improvements and unblockable moves. To then go to Rise, to completely miss the point by giving it some unga bunga moves nobody wanted. To basically revert it to World and completely fuck over how it functions at a base level. And yet they continue to keep improving nonsense like LS and Bow functionally.
I love how it feels in Wilds. After going back to World I missed it.
Key is to use mid thrusts and stay in focus mode. The ability to change direction constantly and step between any pokes feels so nice. Also the recovery from mid thrust to block and instant counter feels good
@@Forcejuusoagreed, it took a few hunts to get used to it but it feels so much more fluid in wilds. But I also really liked striker style lance and instablock so I might be in the minority there. Base world lance is still S tier for me though.
Seems they took inspiration from all those styles and put it into one fluid move set.
To be fair my guy, the ability to use both armor sets probably limits the slider capability on the hunter body, as much as it would be neat to get more in depth on bodytypes, even if they're just preset bodytypes.
@@Kopa_Malphas needs big anime tiddies tho...
I think I understood what you were saying about Perfect Guard, so forgive me if I didn't - but the auto shield bash that occurs after blocking is tied to knockback, not the perfect guard. Regular Guard will still cause the auto bash, but if you're knocked back too far, even if you Perfect Guard, you won't. Tangentially important - the more levels of Guard we get, the better this will be.
Man, I might switch to gunlance since it can do nearly anything lance does and better
honestly , my exacty thought process especially with how generous the guard point window is on GL quick reload and reload
Thats me everytime I'm on gunlance and want to switch to lance because of how useless the shield was in older games 😂 been a gunlance main since mhfu and im finally happy to be maining a good weapon for once
@@aruzail That was why I actually liked lance OVER GL in IB/SB. I got annoyed with not actually using the shield for anything, and liked lance better since the counters were so good (I'm in the minority here, but I LOVED the insta-block into cross slash play style from SB lol). But yeah now in Wilds, I was just like, "Oh cool GL gets good counters and actually USES the shield??? It's just better lance now." 🤣
Gunlance feels great but the animation commitments are longer. I've been using GL for multiplayer since those moves have flinch free, and it actively benefits from not having aggro whereas lance still gets trippled pretty easily and feels bad when you're not in 100% aggro.
Solo on the other hand, lance feels great. Especially being able to micro-position with focus mode.
@@valeereon9954 YEAH i thought of the exact same thing, i also wish one of the counters in wilds for lance was cross slash, i love that move so much since MHGU! Thankfully rise GL was really good, and wilds was even better!
I don't know if you mentioned it, but it may be possible to use victory thread as a perfect guard/offset mechanic does it not? The shield flash gives me the impression it can block?
LOOK AT ALL THOSE CHICKENS
I've found that focus mode is always dependent on where your camera is pointing, and benefits from prepositioning. You can look one way while attacking another, then hit focus in the middle of your attacks to change to the new direction as if you were holding focus the entire time and redirected manually.
That said, it is feeling like all the tricks you can do with focus mode means that mouse and keyboard players will have a distinct advantage over controller players this time, though probably not a big one.
Also, there's a bug I noticed for lance. If you change movement settings to be based on your character rather than the camera (so when your hunter is looking right compared to the camera, and you roll while pushing down on the stick, you'll roll to the left of the camera, or backwards to the hunter), the control suddenly changes to camera based movement while you're doing a lance dash. Very annoying, though a niche problem. Pretty sure Capcom's already aware and just hasn't gotten around to fixing it for the beta.
Yes, the perfect guard does still take chip, but vastly lowered which with full guard skill will probably be nothing
I'm not sure if it was just bad timing, but guard poking explosive barrels wasn't working for me either. I tried 3 times and was blown back every time.
@@MuggsisGune i will have to test that next time. I picked up and tossed all my barrel bombs lol
Probably cause we have no guard skills at all, I did try that as well but got blown back
This is a weird thing with World (and now Wilds) that barrels instantly explodes the moment you hit it. Hence why you can't guard poke it. Meanwhile in Rise (and old gen too) you can poke the barrel bomb and it will have a delay between it's explosion and the moment you hit it. So you can safely guard poke the barrel bomb and actually guard it.
@@Ivan-nl6fu but I guard poked bombs all the time in world and iceborne
ofcourse you got your Stamina drain, can you imagine you hold your balance riding a horse while holding hard that giant shield and Pencil
Not bad at al about the weps being more slow and methodical, cuz honestly in Rise save for a couple they all felt like the same speed; which was anime fast at times
to me it felt like payback thrust has some modifier on flinches or staggers
It's supposed to get a motion value increase based on how much damage you block with power guard
How much knockback does the jousting do ? If it does a lot, I am 100% playing lance in multiplayer :)
As a lance main, I have some concerns:
1. Counter Thrust should not be removed. This move has been integrated into the lance move set since the beginning of the series, so I can understand why most of us lance mains feel it’s so strange to consider its removal.
2. Perfect Guard seems to lack a strong follow-up attack, unlike Rise’s insta-block.
3. I see no reason for me to use Perfect Guard now, especially when my lance is much more mobile.
4. Perfect Guard chip damage? Knock-back? Another reason why I won’t be using Perfect Guard.
5. Charge Counter feels like a death wish, to be honest. There’s no way anyone can use it to reliably counter an attack. It would be perfect if it auto-triggered once you receive an attack, with a shorter charge time-maybe it would work!
Sorry if I sound a bit negative, but man, they’re missing the fundamentals of the weapon a lot, and I think they’ll correct this with the expansion after the game’s release.
Thanks for your video!
I really like the name for the cat.
My soul is at ease now lol
As to high thrust being slower. i think the though process behind that is having a choice between doing more damage but bein open for longer or doing a bit less damage and bein safer. In my opinion in worlds High Thrust was basically the way to go unless it wouldnt hit. Making mid thrust almost useless. (Unless im missing some crucial Difference here but if i look at the guides here on youtube they basically all say: use high thrust its more damage.) Given that. A change to one of the thrusts was needed to actually make both viable.
i generally like the changes. Having a standard counter just with block is neat and way less commiting that the world counterthrust. Guard poke seems to be way more viable now since its faster. And the charge counter is a thing you really have to learn to make good use of. Having high damage with a lot of commitment.
To me the changes feel like an iterative progression compared to worlds.
Thing about high thrust vs mid thrust in old games is even if you do all mids you dont really lose all that much damage. It's much better to be more consistent on not missing. If you miss once that's equivalent to doing like 10 mid thrusts instead of high.
You use mid thrusts as it will definitely hit the monster infront of you and high thrusts once you are able to discern whether your high thrust will hit the monster or not. Lance's damage potential is pitiful so each and every little bit helps. Lance players are in constant pressure to keep up the damage uptime with continuous pokes. With the counter now close to inaccessible, the lance will once again does what it was designed to do: tank and poke
@@DTPandemonium The question is: Why loose damage at all? If !aim" is the only decerninc difference between mid an high it diesnt make much sense to give both attacks different motion values.
If you look at other weapons you usually have quite the diifference between Y and B attacks. Usually either: Fast and lower damage vs. slow an high damage or a big direction change. (Narrow attacks vs wide attacks. ) or a different mechanic (Like shelling for gunlance.)
For lance though both attacks are almost the same. Compared to other weapons lance doesnt fit the design of: Y attacks Differ from B attacks.
To fix that you either need to get rid of one of those Thrusts. For example: Making B a slap Combo. Or have B making shield attacks (blunt damage)
Obviously that would be quite the drastic change. Changing the whole feel of the weapon. And quite a big risk.
or you have to option to go the Faster Less damage vs. Slower higher damage route. Which the went in Wilds.
The attacks are still basically almost the same. But you have to make a decision thats beyond just "can i hit it" which gives Mid Thrust more usecases.
You should note that the glow vinyl is great for unsanctioned glow rounds but it renders your discs illegal for sanctioned PDGA tournaments. So it's not the ideal solution unfortunately. Unless you keep separate vinyl glow discs you may be forced to remove the stickers to use them in normal tournament play.
I actually like all the changes but my only complaint is how weak the hits feels. There’s no hit lag and such a small sound that it makes the hits feel useless. World lance felt so much more meaty when you hit with it but it’s just missing in this version
All hit feedbacks for melee attacks are reduced or completely removed. If you do like hit feedback then it's best to switch to a ranged weapon
@ yeah I’m hoping they change this on release. Seems to be the main complaint for a lot of players as well
I don't understand why they changed counter-thrust this much. Lance felt really clunky and under-powered to me in the beta. LS getting all the love again, feels bad.
Did it?
Old counter thrust mechanics got merged with new block. Its the same thing, but counters with a shield slap instead of poke.
THANK you! I hate what they did to guard counters, they felt so awkward in the beta since there was no counter stance
Counter thrust became pretty useless when they added guard dash. It can be used exactly like counter guard, but better. Power guard replacing Counter thrust can still function exactly as it did before anyway, if your not trash and it absorbs hits to boost the follow up attack, way more depth here. Get gud buddy.
Old counter thrust is baked into regular guard. If you're not good with your timing then this is basically a worse counter thrust. Good players will find this better.
The new Counter Thrust is now the Lance's TCS. It is dealing TCS levels of damage in the beta if you parry an attack with it. Yes, PARRY. It doesn't have guard frames. Your hit needs to connect to a monsters hit.
1.6k views. Very nice.
i was disappointed w/ Lance. I'm also thinking of going to Gun Lance. Also my other weapon Charge Blade changed too much.
with the guard is fast i expected more brawling with monster and less slow/ small amount of mobs attack frequency
Jousting being the only good thing to come out of wilds Lance is kinda sad......
What's more sad is that it most likely won't get any changes by the full release.....
The soul and heart of lance is all about the convenience of blocking and dealing the lowest amount of damage. If you want to play lance solo (which you shouldnt) then expect really long quest timers.
Triple pokes are damn slow, me not like that. The follow up attack is good tho
The Lance has been so ignored and stagnant for such a long time, that when capcom shook things up with it, some Lance users went on an uprising. Haha
For real though, they’ve made smart choices with the changes. There’s re-learning needed, yes and we lost the previous counter, but we gained so much mooooore.
Yeah I feel like I’m in the minority but I love the changes. Just takes some getting used to just guarding quickly instead of counter thrust but it’s so much smoother now. I think the playerbase will like it more when they get the timings right.
@ They’re just lazy or reject the idea of change. Which is expected. We’ve been asking for some improvements with the weapon. Now that we have it, they reject it. Haha. Lance mains need to get out of their comfort zones and be open to the change. Not be lazy and learn it. The weapon can never truly evolve if capcom stuck with the previous formula. Also, the weapon is dying. Always at the bottom 2% of weapon use. They need to make an effort in inviting others to pick up the weapon. Make it a bit flashier and add complexity to it.
@@kazetsune You're just being a condescending arse. The wilds lance is new, not better or worse, those depend on preference. The only thing you can definitively say is that the wilds lance is very different from the old lance, to the point that I and some other lance mains very much dislike it. If you disagree, good on you for having an opinion, but don't just disregard everyone else. I firmly believe this new lance is bad, and that if they wanted to evolve the lance this is very much the wrong direction(I can think of many other ways they could've evolved the lance that would likely increase it's popularity while keeping its base gameplay similar so the oldheads can enjoy it).
@@analyticHeartthe ‘hard block, walk with lance unsheathed’ type of players are loving this new version. You know what I mean..
@@analyticHeart What would be the direction you would evolve lance in? Or better which gameplay style would lance represent for you?
Mounted Lance new meta??? 🤯