How To Mouse Properly to Avoid Carpal Tunnel Syndrome With San Jose Chiropractor
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มี.ค. 2016
- Avoid wrist strain when mousing by using this technique!
San Jose chiropractor Dr. William Holdsworth DC from Pain Relief Chiropractic shows how to use mouse properly (proper mousing) to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome and wrist compression that leads to discomfort.
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Pain Relief Chiropractic
1607 Meridian Avenue
San Jose, CA 95125
4087850631
info@pain-reliefchiro.com
Disclaimer
This information should not be substituted for medical or chiropractic advice. Any and all health care concerns, decisions, and actions must be done through the advice and counsel of a health care professional who is familiar with your updated medical history.
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Eight years later, this is still gold
I have suffered with carpal tunnel for years and I am a avid gamer . I pretty much quit because the pain and numbness were so distracting I could not enjoy the game . The second I changed my hand position I noticed a difference! I will definitely be using this technique from now on . THANK U
so happy to hear that!!!! have fun!
I'm in a similar situation to what you were. Gaming and typing. What did you do differently to get relief?
@@quintinclarkson i cant elevate my arm! i cant do that for like 30 mins instead i put my entire arm on the table and it puts more pressure on my arm than my wrist
I bet you are a WoW player :)
I have spent months researching relieving carpal tunnel syndrome pain quickly and found a fantastic resource at Dariks Pain Destroyer (google it if you are interested)
Now I understand logitech mx master's design.
tanks for the video pain
This helped me so much.. than you!!!
Dude, the MOST informative and simple video for carpal tunnel !!!! THANK YOU!
Thank you! I'm glad it was straightforward.
Thank you!
Great Vid
Thanks
I also recommend taking your hands out of the usual, palm-down, mouse-holding position as often as possible. The neutral position (like you're holding a coffee mug) is much less stress on your tendons than the palm-down position that we scroll and type with.
Thanks, Doc! Keep up the good work man
You're welcome! Happy to provide!
Thankyou, sincerely.
I've been gaming on my pc since I was about 9 years old. This helps so much I'm able to enjoy gaming with friends without the throbbing pain in my wrist. I'm really glad I found this video. Keep up the good work!
I'm glad you found the video helpful and can enjoy gaming again. Have a great day!
Thanks.
Thank you good sir 😁
I was doing shock therapy for my CT and it would ease up after each session until I started working again then I remembered this video and decided to try it, took some getting used to but it's now a habit, can't hold a mouse any other way and the pain in my hands are now literally from PRE PT - 90%, POST PT - 15 - 25%, MOUSE TECHNIQUE - 5%! Having a chair with an armrest is a must has well if you are going to be working for hours, I also switched to "hover" typing and now there is next to no pain in either hands. Doing regular hand exercises and warm compression after a long day and my hands feel as good as new, insane.
Very useful information thank you
You're welcome!
Great video, thank you very much for this quick and clear explanation, you're doing good work
Thank you happy to help!
This helped a lot! My pain is between my thumb and index finger mid palm. This technique works great except for moving the track ball. Thanks for this video!
Happy to hear that it helped! A trackball can be used the same way a track pad is used. Here's a video explaining it: th-cam.com/video/tt1Pm4Md-IA/w-d-xo.html
What!! life changing! I go to a physical therapist and chiropractor and neither has hit on mouse ergonomics specifically.
That's awesome! I'm so glad this helped you. Have a great day!
you are the man! it worked for me!
Happy to help!
Thank you so much, sir! This computer programmer here just checked in to your youtube office with some carpal tunnel syndrome symptoms and is feeling much better about tomorrow's work day.
Great news! Glad I can help
Doctor, I can't thank you enough for this video! I started feeling pain in my fingers, and thought it was because of my new mouse (that maybe was too small). I found I had a fingertip grip, and started looking for that kind of mouse for me. When actually what I needed was a proper grip! That's when I found your video. Thank you for showing us this valuable, simple and so effective way of using the mouse!
You're welcome! It's always better to see if there's a different way to use something you already have, rather than buying new stuff.
Lol i just change my hands to the left. It is so awkward. Changing my select option to left was a bit weird for me. Thanks for the tips.
Thanks for the video . I have to start using this method . My right hand has been going numb from working on the computer for hours .
Give it a shot - it should help!
this is a very helpful video, thanks for it doc
You're welcome JellyOsaurus!
@@PainReliefChiropractic i was dealing with some serious pain in my wrist and i had no idea that compressing the blood vessels was a thing if i use the mouse like how everyone is doing. tried this and now my wrist is completely off the table and feeling a million times better
That's really great to hear! I'm glad you found the video and got relief!
Thanks for saving my wrist!
Happy to help!
Just started gaming . Thanks i will use this technique. Precaution is better than cure ❤️
Thanks ! : )
You're welcome!
Great
I think I'm going to switch to left just to force myself to relearn from scratch and not fall back into old habits! This is super helpful. I'm excited to see how it helps.
Great idea!
Thank you so much for making this, I just got a PC about a month ago and already have been having occasional pain in my palm and wrist due to how I've been gripping the mouse for hours on end. I knew I must be doing something wrong. If pinching your nerves was the normal way to hold a mouse, my friends would be in too much pain to play CS:GO as much as they do lol
You're welcome. We enjoy making these videos and helping as many people as we can. Modifying the mouse positioning should help out a ton. If you need further relief, you can also check out a lot of our hand and wrist stretching videos on our channel.
thanks
You're welcome!
Thank you. That was very helpful. Can you do a video about correctly using a trackpad or what things we can do to avoid wrist pain?
Yes I can do that for sure!
th-cam.com/video/tt1Pm4Md-IA/w-d-xo.html
Sorry it took so long!
being a left handed person i really didn't think about swithing the mouse buttons around before ill have to give it a try
Yea some left handed individuals learned the buttons the way they come set up and as long as the fingers are neutral, it's fine to keep the buttons set at the default settings
Thank you, I have now stopped using my wireless mouse as I have a laptop. I had no idea that was the cause of a dull ache that was beginning to show itself. Thanks again.
Happy to help!
I already had the problem that my right hand was getting cold always I was using the mouse.
tendonitis starting at 27. sheesh i knew id have problems but not this early haha
thank you!!
Hi doctor, thanks for the videos, very informative. what type of mouse would you recommend to someone with carpal tunnel syndrome, a regular mouse or vertical one? thanks in advance
Either one is fine for CTS. You need to use it properly. Vertical mice typically make people go into extension in their wrist. You have to hold a vertical mouse on an angle in order to achieve a neutral wrist. A regular mouse must be palmed to avoid compression and isolated movement at the wrist. In short, it's more about how you use them than what is the best one.
Thanks for the great video - my current mouse is still small to use this technique, what other mouse do you recommend that is ergonomic? I don't like trackpad though.
There is no mouse that is more ergonomic. There are however certain mice that work well for some and achiebe a specific result more so for some users than others. That said, my personal favorite is the Logitech MX Performance Mouse which appears to be discontinued, but you can still find it online from certain sellers. It looks like the Logitech MX Master 910-005527 Wireless Laser Mouse has replaced the MX Performance Mouse because it looks very similar. It's important to understand that if the only problem you're having with your current mouse is that it's too small, either of these 2 mice should benefit you.
Excelent video, thnks. Do you think vertical mouse its a better option to reduce carpo tunnel stress?
The vertical mouse can certainly help because the side of your wrist would make contact with your work surface rather than the palmer aspect of your wrist. The palmer aspect has the carpal tunnel while the side of your wrist does not. The only issue with the vertical mouse is users tend to put their wrist in extension during use. Only 10 degrees of extension increases the pressure within the carpal tunnel. Keep the wrist neutral while using the vertical mouse and you're golden.
Thanks for the useful video! I just developed mild form of CTS... I think not without help of relatively small Microsoft Surface Mobile mouse. Now I am trying to choose something different. Would you recommend trackpad or trackball?
Gun to my head: track pad. It's hard to use global arm movement with a trackball vs a track pad.
Thank you for the video doctor. So more a palm 'grip' on the mouse and you use your whole finger movement for clicking? I will have to get used to this with gaming but I've had similar ideas lately and you just confirmed them so I am happy about that.
What about keyboards? I used to have an old membrane keyboard. I recently switched to mechanical keyboard with cherry MX switches. They're very light and have a low accentuation point so I figured they'd be better for my health in the long run.
While gaming, and using your mouse, yes, the technique is as described in the video, and your description sounds like you have a good "grip" on the technique. For more precision, you can use the traditional mousing technique, just be sure to employ the new grip for the majority of your gaming. As for keyboards, I have another video to show you how to use it. I'll link it below this reply.
th-cam.com/video/OcBkI60xYgc/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for the informative video. I've been trying to use your mousing technique and have had relief in my wrist, but every time I do this, my palm aches and the pain lasts well after I stop using the mouse. Do you by any chance know what I may be doing wrong?
You may want to try the vertical mouse similar to this here: Limited-time deal: Anker 2.4G Wireless Vertical Ergonomic Optical Mouse, 800 / 1200 /1600 DPI, 5 Buttons for Laptop, Desktop, PC, Macbook - Black a.co/d/cfKMS9J
Or you may want to adjust the height of the surface your mouse is resting on. It's possible your mouse is on a surface that's too high
i had to watch this but its too late .i already have it
for palming technique, do you recommend leaving your pinky to hang off or have it alongside your ring finger on the button? i.e. is the finger placement index on left side, middle + ring on right, pinky hanging? Or is it two fingers per side button?
thanks!!
I recommend having the pinky hang off. No sense in crowding your fingers on the left mouse button.
thats axactly how I hold the mouse and since everyone else holds it further back I thought I was doing it wrong :D
Do you have any advice on how to use the scroll wheel in this position?
Yep! th-cam.com/video/ZfaQ0e-HFLk/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/P9JuiTA24lA/w-d-xo.html
Hey man I am currently doing a giveaway and at first it was really painful. I was just feeling a sharp pain in my wrist and couldn't quite find the right way to click. Now that I have watched this video I feel confident in holding my mouse comfortably and drawing the winner in a swift, comfortable, and most importantly HEALTHY way. Appreciate you!
i support this comment
Obvious self promo is obvious. Gross.
@@otterpoppin it is not that deep. my chat and i wrote this while watching the video. take a deep breath. it will be okay.
Interesting hand position, but how do you scroll when your fingers are so far forward?
th-cam.com/video/SLXnel7rf3s/w-d-xo.html
That video explains it 😀
Doctor please, what about typing on laptops? Hovering over the keyboard right?
I feel tingling in my fingers when raising and moving them. I also use my medium finger mostly (For some reason I can't use all my finger of my dominant hand) . I had my medium finger operated 4 months ago (which I regret) due to an enchondroma tumour. And that was when everything started.. I didn't even type as much. (I think that my yoga exercises caused it (with palms stretched on the floor bearing my weight paired with a constant squeezing the ball as advised by the doctor) -which was a hue mistake. Now I am taking physical treatments.
th-cam.com/video/OcBkI60xYgc/w-d-xo.html
Try watching that video. I believe I discuss laptop keyboards in there. After you watch the video, let me know if you have additional questions.
Do you need a relatively bigger mouse for gripping like this? My fingers are kind of going over the mouse and I have to curl to reach the scroll wheel. Also I get pain in the back side of the wrist
Yes, I need a relatively bigger mouse for gripping like this. You may need one too. I use the Logitech MX Performance mouse, but there are other options for larger mice. If your fingers are hanging over then I would definitely get a different mouse
Does it work to rotate your hand, using the mouse so the side of the hand is resting on the desk rather than the inner side of the wrist ? A bit like the position your hand would have using a vertical mouse. I have a pretty big mouse but also really long fingers which really isn't practical when doing the position you suggested.
There is actually a mouse that supports this position called the vertical mouse. Here is a link to the product that I believe was the first to design a mouse this way evoluent.com/
I am watching this right now because I’m in pain. I work in an office where 100% of my work is done by entering numbers, typing and continuous mouse use. I will definitely try the tips. I also watched the other video about using the keyboard. Are wrist pads hurting me more then?? What are your thoughts on wrist rest pads. Thanks!
Wrist pads cause 2 things: compression to the wrist and pivoting from the wrist. Both of which makes the wrist worse. Chuck those wrist pads in the garbage 😀
If we use the mouse in the way you recommended, my finger can't get to the toggle on the mouse that scrolls the screen up and down. Do you have any suggestions for this? Thank you!
Yep! th-cam.com/video/P9JuiTA24lA/w-d-xo.html
Can you rest your forearm while holding a mouse (you still use ur arm to move the mouse) because when my arm is hovering it makes my shoulders hurt
That's because your mouse is too high, which means the surface your mouse is on is too high (whether it's a keyboard tray or the desk) or your chair is too low. Try lowering the desk or keyboard tray or raising your chair
I have modified my desk so that my rectangular desk is now got an inwards curve where my body touches the desk. this allows me to put my entire forearm, (from elbow forward) on the desk without the need to lean forward with my body in order to do so, distributing pressure too the whole arm rather than pressure being on a particular part of the wrist/arm. is that an okay way to do it, or is pressure on the whole arm also a bad things? p.s. my wrist doesn't touch the desk at all, it's elevated but my left and right padding of the hand slightly touch the table.
I would not rest the forearm on the desk as you described. Resting leads to putting pressure on areas that rest and additionally causes that area to be a pivot point. Pivoting isolates motion to that area causing it to do all the work instead of using multiple joints to accomplish the task
@@PainReliefChiropractic whenever i move the mouse my arm slightly lifts up and then i move. like a hoover craft. here's a picture of what it looks like. puu.sh/DDs1q/ab55add67e.png
is it still bad?
do you recommend a Vertical mouse or a trackball style mouse?
If I were to pick between the two, I would choose vertical mouse. The only thing with the vertical mouse is you want to hold it on an angle to get a straight wrist. Lots of people think the mouse should be pointed toward 12:00 to use it, and that puts the wrist into extension. Use it at an angle and you're all good. Trackball mice tend to overuse the fingers. Very few people use them with full arm movement
What if I use a claw grip doc?
I wouldn't recommend that. It would cause overuse of your flexor digitorum muscles in your hand
Does the size of the mouse matter? Is a smaller or bigger mouse better for less strain?
Yes the size of the mouse matters. If you have a hand that's hanging over your mouse because it's too small, you're going to want to size up. Idk if a mouse could be too big. I suppose if you have a hand that's reaching for buttons then it'd be too big, but that would be more uncommon than the scenario where a mouse is too small.
without using wrist u cant get fast mouse cordinations ... and because u using your wrist, its better to use some sort of wrist rest or else u gonna get pressure ... also to grab mouse like your method, u gonna need either little hands or huge ass mouse to wrap it up
A wrist rest will cause compression to the wrist. Anything that rests also tends to pivot, which would cause your wrist to do all the work and cause overuse. There are many sizes of mice out there and finding one that will fit your hand while using this technique is easier than you'd think.
What type of mouse should I use? Any model you would suggest?
I personally use the Logitech MX performance mouse because it fits my hand well, has infinite scroll or ratchet scroll wheel, is wired and wireless.
It would greatly depend on your issue, hand size, usage to determine which mouse is right for you
Im having small gangolian grown on my wrist and I'm having a sharp pain on my right arm elbow and also pain on my chest. Is it because of the mouse or anything else
Very difficult to determine through TH-cam. Please see your health provider.
@@PainReliefChiropractic ok dr thank you so much
Within 30 minutes of doing this, I start feeling pain in the shoulder joint and keeps increasing the more i do it. I tried both arms, same problem. Any idea what Im doing wrong?
The mouse is too high in relation to your elbow height. Lower the mouse by lowering the desk, get a keyboard tray, and/or raise your chair 💯
how about when we're using the scroll ?
Into The Ether the scroll feature of a mouse can cause problems as well. I like the Logitech MX performance mouse. It has an infinite scroll function. When using it, be sure to move more from the elbow and shoulder instead of just scratching at it with your finger. Thanks for watching!
I use ScrollAnywhere and scroll the page by holding right click
I like the idea of putting my hand over the entire mouse, but it makes scrolling insanely difficult.
th-cam.com/video/P9JuiTA24lA/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/ZfaQ0e-HFLk/w-d-xo.html
Is it okay to use arm rest?
Not really ever, no
Is it healthy to use a flat mouse with a very small curvature?
Typically that design would cause over gripping and wrist extension.
@@PainReliefChiropractic @Pain Relief Chiropractic Thanks for replying, so getting used to that types of flat mice (eg:A2 mouse) can cause some problems?
Is carpal tunnel syndrome unavoidable and are there long-term consequences of gaming with keyboard and mouse on the hands?
No, carpal tunnel syndrome is not unavoidable. With preventative behavior and posture, it is possible to avoid getting carpal tunnel syndrome. There can be long-term consequences from gaming with a keyboard and mouse with improper technique. That is the purpose of this video - to show proper technique in order to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome. As with anything, it is important to take breaks while gaming and/or using the computer. In addition, be sure to cycle through different hobbies and that should help!
yeah but now i cant click as fast
It'll take time to get the coordination
I think this is called the 'palm grip,' which I've read is more ergonomic - but I wanted to hear that from a doctor. Thank you for this video! Would love to hear your thoughts on ergonomic mice, the vertical ones that'll pop on Google if you search for it. There's not a lot of bigger mice for this grip, so I'm looking into buying those instead.
Vertical mice are good, but are usually used improperly. Ensure your wrist is neutral during use. Most people will try to point the mouse toward 12:00, but in doing so it will cause wrist extension. Rather, point the mouse toward 10 or 11 and the wrist will be in a neutral position
@@PainReliefChiropractic Will give it a shot. Thank you for this!
Sense I’ve been playing minecraft pvp... I vibrate my finger on the mouse to get more clicks per second like other players do. Is it bad? (Tell me anything besides arthritis) thanks!
It would depend on how much you play. It's a repetitive motion and if you do it too much it can be bad. Vary your hobbies and activities!
This position makes using the scroll wheel more difficult.
If you use the scroll wheel a lot you can try using the roller mouse: www.amazon.com/Contour-Design-RollerMouse-Wired-RM-PRO3/dp/B01MTEH6WZ/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?adgrpid=58883204874&hvadid=651232258529&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=9003729&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=5245879672674506827&hvtargid=kwd-302984038255&hydadcr=20132_13445624&keywords=roller+bar+mouse&qid=1687044391&sr=8-1-spons&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.f5122f16-c3e8-4386-bf32-63e904010ad0&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfYXRm&psc=1
@@PainReliefChiropractic Thanks for the fast reply! I look into the roller mouse, see if it's right for me. I'm also thinking about augmenting my current mouse with cardboard to make it longer so I can press the buttons with the ends of my fingers while also resting my palm on the mouse.
You could probably just get a bigger mouse. If you have big hands, the mouse I linked prior should be perfect for you
Hi Doctor, thank you so much for this vidéo.
I suffer from shoulder pain + wrist and forearm pain whan I use the mouse.
I try to follow your advices , my wrist pain gone away but my right upper trapezius id still hurting me. I try with standing desk but the right shoulder pain is still here.
I try to relax my hand when I move the mouse but After 10 min of palming the mouse, the shoulder pain comes back.....
I'm so exhausted with all these issues. I live in Paris (France) and you're the only Doctor that pointed my problem !!! After 2 years of therapy, I bought so many mice, changed my desktop, you're the first one who explained me very well what caused me all the pain and fatigue muscles.
I noticed that you don't recommend the use of armrests. Do you sit back on your chair in order to put the weight on the backseat ?
Is it better to use standing desk ?
I don't know what to do ?
Do you think one day I'll be delivered from these problems ?
Thank you so much for reading me (sorry for my Bad english)
Best regards
Bonjour merci pour votre commentaire et vos questions!
Vous trouverez ci-dessous un lien pour vous aider à adopter la position assise.
th-cam.com/video/f_NsyOCuspU/w-d-xo.html
Et voici un lien pour aider à la posture debout.
th-cam.com/video/9ib2uZY97a8/w-d-xo.html
Vous pouvez également essayer de vous assurer que votre épaule n'est pas trop tournée. C'est généralement à cause d'un pavé numérique sur un clavier.
If you just switch your mouse buttons and click with your middle finger, all your problems will go away. I suffered much and tried everything until several years ago when I switched my mouse buttons and I have had no pain since. Using your index finger is natural and intuitive which is why we do it, but using your middle finger to click the right button instead is painless!!!!!!!!!!!
is it ok to jitter click
I wouldn't do it for too long or too often. You're basically contracting your forearm muscles while jitter clicking. Doing that too much would lead to fatigue and overuse syndrome. Ensure you're stretching between gaming sessions and at least using a specialized mouse where it's easy to do this. Ideally, you wouldn't jitter click at all, and you'd have a mouse which one of the buttons was to perform a jitter click for you when you just held down the button
what about butterfly clicking? is it safer than jitter?
I would say so yes. But similar to jitter clicking, you really shouldn't do too much of it. Mitigate the stress with stretching and taking breaks. I still think the best option is to have a button on the mouse that is programmed to do the same thing as a butterfly click or a jitter click
i just saw a comment on a forum and i know it’s from a random person but it said that you will be more likely to end up with carpal tunnel or oa if you butterfly click because you are moving the joint between your finger and palm fast, and arthritis can be caused by the movement of your fingers and wrist
I mean I suppose, but regarding overuse syndrome, which occurs much before OA or CTS, jitter is worse for you. They are both not so great. It is much better to get a mouse that has a button that does this function for you
Palming takes away precision
practice will get you better at this, but for fine precision mousing just try to limit the twisting at the wrist
Lower your mouse sensitivity.
irrelevant asides !!??