Pakistan International Airlines
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ค. 2020
- New video shows evidence of engines hitting the runway with the gear UP.
LINKS:
The Aviation Herald:
avherald.com/h?article=4d7a6e9...
A320 Landing Gear Systems Review:
• A320 - Landing Gear
THIS ENTIRE VIDEO SERIES HAS BEEN DEMONETIZED BY TH-cam
Thanks for your support here on Patreon!
Patreon:
www.patreon.com/user?u=529500...
PayPal:
www.paypal.me/juanbrowne
8303 Playlist:
• Pakistan Airlines #8303 - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Juan, as a Pakistani I would really like to thank you for your analysis on this incident. I hope your videos will expose the truth to more people in Pakistan who have always been lied to and deprived of truth in previous incidents. I am sure a lot of Pakistanis like me are watching your videos. Keep up the great work 👍🏼
Thanks Rizwan.
He informed us more detailed than our Local Media.
OMG... this is what i feared; after 2--3 hours of the crash news on May 22, I posted following comments on some videos at TH-cam: Quote ---> Too early at this stage but piecing together isolated info (mostly unconfirmed) it appears as if crew attempted an emergency landing (after failing to down landing gears) some 19 minutes before disaster without emergency equipment lined up along runway however could not succeed. Most probably engines scratched the surface and got damaged. Unaware of this damage pilot (who might have been double minded due to unavailability of emergency equipment) went for go-around to make another landing attempt but meanwhile damaged engines failed/shutdown leaving the plane a low-flying glider not high enough to make it to the runway… just guessed on the basis of news came in so far, nothing confirmed at the moment. ----> unqote
Iam an indian.
From my point of view....when as a doctor when I come back from a 1 week holiday I forget steps in opening my computer....I forget my passwords and I check from my book and I get everything ready and then I start seeing my patients one by one....now the same applies after a lockdown to any pilot too....just have all pilots and all risk maneuvering areas not only in pakistan or india every country should make it mandatory to all pilots to have a 3 hours refresher course before they actually handle the bird which has a lot of people to be taxed to safety.....even this pilots family has suffered permanently .....
I was somehow taken back by the no reaction in his voice as he said MAY DAY MAY DAY.....no emotion at all..was he in his right frame of mind
@@XtremeFun Just because the kid did not see him dose not mean he was not there
My heart goes out to all the families that lost loved ones.
Thanks man. Most people just have so much hate that they find a reason to spew their hate regardless of lives lost. No matter what race religion sex, we're all humans and all have blood in our veins.
harry allen ok tf does that have to do with this comment?
Scary John, if they were alive, they would die, even read your nickname alone, leaving picture apart.
You have my instance, I died laughing...
As a FAA designated and trained accident investigator for a large airline, I applaud your fact based only approach. Your calm manner and resisting the urge to assign "Pilot Error" to all occurrences of this type, goes a long way to give the experts the time and space to determine actual cause or causes. Most accidents are a small series of mistakes, culminating in a large or irreversible accident. Keep up the professionalism..... Our ranks of troops appreciate and need that approach.
Hi, I was once a part of the aircraft maintenance crew in the PIA, as a Pakistani viewer I really appreciate you making these videos that are based on facts and not on mere speculations. I hope and pray that the investigators do their jobs properly and write a report that would contribute in preventing such an accident in the future. Once again, thumbs up on the videos!
Thanks for keeping us up to date on this tragic accident!
Definitely not getting enough “mainstream” media coverage, we can always count on Juan to get out the information as it becomes available and give it in a non biased, professional way.
Keep it up Juan!
Ditto!!👍
flagmichael
Absolutely
@@flagmichael In today's livestream with Juan on Petter's channel, they discuss this accident. Petter said he hasn't done a video on it because he has never flown an A320, unlike Juan. Juan is also an A&P, which I think helps him understand and explain the systems that may be involved.
The media reporting does seem weak, but to be fair, what caused them to hit the runway is still speculation.
I love hearing a person talk that understands what hes talking about! I will keep checking in. My condolences to all the families involved. Take care everyone! Have a good day or night from Canada
(Are you 'familiar' with the name Dave Campbell, Chris ?)
Problem is that we still don’t take safety measures, we don’t learn lessons :-( My experience travelling with PIA says that they need better aircraft maintenance and professional training to crew.
@Denise De-elbow hee hee. Nice! Denise. I knew a C. Yeates and a D. Campbell back in the 70's.....
Denise De-elbow kind of chunky too isn’t he?
Your explanation videos on this accident are simple and detailed, they are also the only ones I could get!
The quantity of available info on this subject is abnormally low.
Thank you for your very nice job.
(I’ll go check your patreon)
My sincere condolences to all Pakistanis and especially to all the families who lost loved ones in this tragic accident.
Shame upon TH-cam for demonetizeing factual content.
Yeah, they just want goofy 13 year olds making comedy -- to monetize. Extremely shady business model by TH-cam.
It may just be a blanket approach for this crash, as vast numbers of channels were copying videos &/or adding fake thumbnails and so on, to exploit the accident for views/revenue.
I really don’t understand why TH-cam de-monetizes content like this. It makes no sense to me
Any decent alternatives to TH-cam yet?
You Tubeless censors are all IDIOTS who do NOT deal with facts...lies OK!
More detail, more evidence of what went wrong.
As always...good job Juan.
What went wrong ? You can find even more detail at the Aviation Herald. In short a couple of idiots utterly messed up a 'high energy' landing, literally diving for the runway (see blancolirio's first video about this) at up to 4000 fet per minute merely a couple of minutes before reaching the airport, 'landed long' with the gear up because they had forgotten about it, trashed the engines by dragging them along the runway, stumbled back into the air when they realised there was no runway left, lost thrust due to the damage caused and then crashed into a built-up neighbourhood, self-eliminating themselves and killing all but 2 of the aircraft's other occupants. It is an example of the very worst standard of airmanship possible. PIA regrettably have several more examples in their spotty history. The flight crew were effectively murderers or assassins. The end. Expect HUGE changes to some airline's training after this. CRM and SOPs (if you know what they are) quite literally went out of the window (if they were ever a 'thing' in PIA) and this accident will focus minds on this.
pasoundman OK...but do you really think training is the answer? Heard about SKA? Skills, knowledge and attitude. ATTITUDE...train them all you like...without the latter you can forget trying to stop this happening again. And it’s not just the attitude of the flight crew.
Blancolirio, Thank you for this most valuable service to the aviation fraternity! This is the best I've seen in my 47 years in aviation.
But his analysis depends on official reports, whether false or true.
Who knows the reality.
⁰
Nice video but if u look at google maps and where the crash happen and when plane try to land its on the other side of runway , it crash on jinnah gardens which is ahed on this runway amd this building in thst case should be on right side, i dont know who send u this video but if u look on google maps and other videos on this topic plance came from other side amd the side u showing its take off side .
A person can learn in three minutes from Juan Brown more then he would the whole year watching the main stream news channels.
And part of the reason would be that one hour of mainstream news broadcasting would probably contain thirty minutes of advertising! The main reason, however, as you suggest, is the use of correspondents with no knowledge of aircraft operations.
Because those networks couldn’t give a rat’s butt about truth. They want to sensationalize the crap out of tragedy to make money.
The only thing I don't like about his videos is that they are too damned short! I wish they could go on for at least 30 minutes. VERY informative and instructive for this non-pilot!
@@demef758 watch flying beast's video on this aircrash
He himself is captain and he made a 23 mins long video on this aircrash
Yes, but consider that Juan is well trained professional and enthusiast who try to teach himself and us and isnt looking for sensations. And in my opinion, he is naturaly gifted to do this at very high level. I realy apreciated his effort and love his videos.
Juan, I learn so much from your videos, thank you for taking the time. This is such a bizarre accident.
Juan Browne: Here's factual information that nobody in media is reporting.
TH-cam: How dare you!
Yeah, how dare a private organization try to have rules about how people can use its property!
🙄
@@lebojay
Well, they (as a private organization) need to be reliably consistent and they are not. I have been following the information about the stimulus and there is a hell of a lot of information that is incorrect, misleading or click-bate. So why are they not demonetized? and continue putting out the misinformation? I have one person that I follow for the information and that person calls out the others on their misinformation or click-bate. I have been following Juan for a while and it is beyond me why he gets demonetized for providing information, without bias and telling the truth.
Don't blame youtube. Blame the jerks that make a lot of noise, threaten to boycott advertisers over the tiniest infraction of that ever-changing line that will generate a couple of days of outrage.
It's to avoid having people making money off this as soon as it happens with a bunch of "OMG CRASH STUFF" videos. Same with Corona. Sucks for who actually tries, but it pushes to make people do these videos later, with more info.
Toronto Jay TH-cam tries to present itself a public platform, but censors it’s content as a private company. It is not possible, or legal to straddle this fence. Pregur University lawyers hopefully will settle this arbitrary tyranny.
Amazing coverage, as always! Have been a follower since the Oroville Dam Spillway, and a fan shortly after :)
I really appreciate your genuine efforts to clearly explain exactly what happened with the aircraft.
As a aircraft mechanic my eye went straight to the pictures of the crashed engines and it was clear at least one engine wasn't running when the aircraft crashed as the fan blades were almost completely intact.
If it were running we'd see bent and damaged blades.
Thanks
The pilot also reported the engines weren’t running.
Always straight and right to the point. And every time, so interesting to hear you reporting the facts !
What I don't understand about TH-cam demonetization policy is 'big money' news sites can cover a crash like this and have ad's running. Yet this video is not 'shocking', not 'graphic' and really only focuses on the technicals of the incident. So how come all the other TH-camrs who rip off the 'Air Crash Investigators' series don't get demonetized? I've Been on TH-cam for far too long and it just gets more and more stupid as time goes on. Little producers getting punished at every opportunity, big corporate producers getting maximum ad's
The advertisers trust the big news sites to have sufficient reputational "skin in the game" that they will police themselves via standards and practices departments and the like. They do not trust individual creators to do so, and there is plenty of history showing why, for example PewDiePie's infamous "heel turn". I'm not saying that it's right or fair, but those are the assumptions that the advertisers make when deciding whether they are sufficiently protected to advertise at all.
The TH-cam policy of demonetizing posted material due to 'sad content' is beyond ridiculous. Fact of life, it's often sad. Thank you Juan for your fine work & excellent content. PS - Almost every major airport these days has multiple cameras to observe traffic. Will be very interesting to see video of the aircraft touchdown when it becomes available. Also testimony from the two survivors will hopefully shed light on this terrible accident. RIP to passengers & crew and best wishes to all those affected.
Why have these videos been demonitised?
This is the kind of work that needs to be supported through TH-cam!
probably some pakistani guy working at youtube IT didn't like it and just decided to flag the channel
These videos get demonetized because advertisers don’t want their company associated with a plane crash. YT has been burned before so they simply demonetize anything slightly upsetting or controversial. It stinks because this is the sort of quality content YT should be promoting. I do sort of understand where advertisers are coming from here.
wargent99 advertisers don’t want to be supporting death , unless the alt-right zombies who believe everyone should die that isn’t a white male billionaire. No difference between an alt-right Whitt and a ISIS supporter. Both are terrorists who don’t belong in a free world.
@@s.g.devries8557 thanks for a rational answer to the question :)
Why does TH-cam demonetize when they still run ads at the beginning of this video? I know it’s somewhat a rhetorical question, but still… TH-cam = Hypocrites
They take all the ad revenue instead of giving part of it to the content creator.
@@DK1213 So they can profit some more.
Al the while calling themselves good socialists
Thank you for your analysis. We appreciate it.
@@davedavedave52 Why on Earth would you blame the sorry state of Ytbe's advertising policies on socialism? Ads aren't exactly socialist, capitalist, yes. Why would that even come into your head? How utterly absurd.
As a Pakistani, let me thank you for such an objective review of the situation in these videos. Your recent videos will hopefully allow us to put more pressure on this state airline to do better and stop playing with our lives even when we push it through everytime with high taxes and exuberant subsidies!
Thank you so much. For you to research and analyze an accident that happened in another country so it can be prevented in the future, is so noble. You are a wonderful person and it makes me happy to know people like you care! 💕
TH-cam and its demonetization is ridiculous, thank you Juan, for always giving us the facts, appreciate all you do!
Thank you for such an objective and professional review even after being demonetized. Prayers for all the people who lost there lives in this preventable tragedy
After watching these three updates along with the excellent vid with Mentour I cannot help but to think in the direction CRM issues. More precisely about ranks/prestige/authority/pride. Not only after the no gear touch down but prior to it, including the thing you discussed with Petter: the choice of words from ATC 'Are you happy with the..." rather than "you are off". There seem to be so many checkpoints that exist to minimize risk for failure or disaster on final approach but nothing suggests they worked as intended here.
Of course it's too early to know but there are bits and pieces that points in this direction from what I gather. What actually happened remains to be seen but just a reflection on my side.
More importantly - thanks for so good content that includes a level of explanation that is technical, objective but explained so good even non aviation people like me to understand (ok, admit, avgeek so perhaps not entirerly uneducated but still no way near professional). Keep up the good work.
And my sincere condolenses to the relatives and friends of the victims and to the Pakistani people.
Just an addition from what I found in the net: The Captain had more than 17000 hours of flight experience, from which were more than 4700 on the Airbus A 320 - obviously a very experienced Pilot. The First Officer had more than 3000 hours of flight experience, most of them on the A 320 - so he was as usual a much younger man than the Captain but obviously not a "Greenhorn", too. The Captain was the Pilot Flying, the First Officer the Pilot Monitoring.
you never disappoint us as usual. everything you explained is next to perfection. thanks
They should have kept on the ground on the 2nd hit. Most definitely after the 3rd strike.
If TH-cam is demonetizing these videos, why are there commercials on them?
The add revenue from demonitized videos goes 100% to TH-cam. There is no share of the revenue going to the TH-camr.
Not when you run AB+ as I`ve done for donkey`s
I like how well articulated he is, and should be receiving part of the pie for sharing knowledge about everything he is sharing with us
Because TH-cam is garbage
Because youtube are commie’s
As an aspiring A&P I appreciate how technical you get in your videos, keep up the good work!
Juan,t hat is a truly fine video on all points and a truly well executed format. I think most governmental investigatory bodies should do as well. I was literally born in the industry, have flown since age 15, have made my living flying since age 20, and have been a major airline captain since 1990. Nobody has done this as well as you have.Keep up the good work.
Excellent update. Praying for those who lost their lives and for the loved ones left behind.
Praying won't help anybody.
💖 Thanks Padmela Powell
I guess I’m dumb, why on earth would you be demonetized, I have learned so much from Juan. Was a P3 Orion engine mechanic when I was in the navy in the early 80s, I find this so interesting keep it up Juan!
IIRC TH-cam demonetizes videos on current events, or some other bullshit so they don't get problems with their Ad money overlords.
FirstDagger mind boggling, idiots are everywhere now I guess, I thought that was the whole reason for this type of social media current events is a big part of it.
As FirstDagger says, TH-cam demonitizes on certain topics. It doesn't stop TH-cam showing adverts and pocketing the money mind you.
It's all algorithms Jeff. He can have it manually reviewed by a human but chances are, since he's not Fox or CNN, they would still demonetize...in this case because he's covering a trajic event.
You can blame the mainstream media for that. In a desperate attempt to remain relevant they dug up a few examples of ads being played on some questionable videos and immediately painted everyone with the same brush, causing several large companies to pull their advertising from TH-cam. In response TH-cam implemented various half-baked algorithms that derank and restrict monetization of videos it finds to be "controversial." Of course none of the mainstream media YT channels nobody watches are affected by this.
Thank Juan and Patreon folks 🙏
Excellent analysis, as usual, Juan! As an “Arm-chair quarterback”, I find it sad that the crew passed up an early landing site. On the go-around, as the flight turned cross-wind, it was actually on a right base for runway 26 at the Pakistan Air Force base a mile away. In my opinion, it was do-able. Most PIA pilots are former military and would have known of the airbase, as did I when I flew in and out of KHI for almost a year. I point this out, not to criticize the crew, but simply to point out an opportunity missed. My thoughts go out to the flight crew, passengers and their families affected by this tragedy. Thank you for your in-depth review of the data.
I can’t image how traumatised the passengers must have been, hitting the runway like that, must have been a huge jolt and very noisy. Rest their souls.
One of the best channels on YT. I'll be making a donation in the near future.
I don’t understand all there is to know about demonetization, Juan, but it irks me that ads are still being played. If you’re not making anything off them, then we shouldn’t be subjected to them.
Amen!
I’m sure TH-cam makes more money by not sharing the revenue with the creators.
YES!
You Tube still intends to make a profit off of the video, they just don't want Juan to make any profit from his work.
It's more about censorship and control than anything. They promote mainstream channels that are also on TV, while suppressing all independent channels.
The intent is to eventually get rid of any and all channels that tell the truth about subjects, so everyone will be forced to have access to only corporate approved media, so they can lie to the public with impunity, just as they did for decades, and still do.
At the present, independent media is calling them out on their falsehoods, and they don't appreciate it, so they intend to stop anyone from being able to tell on them when they lie. Which is all the time.
Good question! 👍👍
This accident is getting more and more unbelievable...
Looks more like a suicide mission.
Especially when you found something in the net about the crew experience: The Captain had more than 17000 hours of flight experience, more than 4700 hours of it on the A 320. The First Officer had more than 3000 hours of flight experience, most of them on the A 320 - obviously not new on his job, too. The Captain was Pilot flying, the First Officer Pilot monitoring. How can something like this happen to a Pilot with more than 17000 hours of flight experience?
What about carbon monoxide poisoning in the cockpit from the engines? As far as I know there is no warning system inside the plane in the case of pulling toxic burning gases inside. People only feel unwell. This is still one of the most stupid construction failures on big airplanes. Maybe both of them were heavily deprived of sleep (makes a person behave like a drunk) plus extended hypoglycemia? Maybe the second officer was obedient to the first officer too (due to their culture) and did not dare to oppose? I mean there must be a reason that BOTH were impaired at the same time. I hope toxicology will bring light into the dark.
@Zak Patat It was surely not a voluntary suicide of the pilots, in opposite, at the beginning of their radio messages they sound very confident ("we will make it" - as it can be heard on VASAviation). And there´s also no indication that they became intoxicated - the voice of the Pilot Monitoring stays always plain and clear at the R/T, not as somebody would sound who´s intoxicated. Lack of concentration due to fasting? Without further information very difficult to say if this could play a role in this case.
At least something went horribly wrong in this cockpit - a cockpit with Pilots who were definetely not "Greenhorns". The CVR will be a very important source to answer the question why this crash happened.
Drunk?
Very well analysis and informative. Thanks for taking the time for this.
The runway marking is telling very clear what happened. Gr8 work and analysis in this and previous videos about PIA crash.. RIP to all victims and affectees
When it comes to air craft incidents, there's no better place to go but here to find out what happened.
Can we rule out suicidal pilot because he appeared too calm to be in that situation especially after knowing that you have committed a blunder in the first attempt?
@@gamebegins3176
Uh. Considering you're supposed to remain calm? No, not really? He would hardly be the first person to do that. Pilots have remained calm in more dire situations than this.
@@itisamystery.5090 yeah probably only best thing he had done in that cabin was to remain calm, but it was not enough.
the runway seems roughed up already? How can we be so sure those marks are fresh from the plane.to a lay man like me it seems all scrachy :-) pardon
This is the craziest crash i ever see in 28 years as a pilot...
Corona Lockdown...may hv played a role here...he may hv forgot SOPs..🥴
As a RL and sim (glider) pilot, I have forgotten my gear more than once. Admittedly, I dont have a copilot, checklist or any alarms, I dont have 100s of passengers, but I can sorta understand what happened here. Stressful, too fast approach, probably not enough time for a thorough checklist, landing gear lever in down position may have been enough for the copilot to confirm the "gear down" checklist item in a rush. Alarms blaring and I bet they didnt know why, or perhaps they did understand they tried to lower it when flying too fast, but assumed it would be down anyway. Then I bet they realized their mistake before the actual touch down and attempted a go around just a bit too late. Thats why they hit the tarmac so far down the runway. Thats why they even attempted to get airborne again after scraping, they where in a "need to get up again" mindset. Dont get me wrong; its an inexcusable pilot error. But I find it more understandable than say air france 447. Entering a stall at FL38, having your stick shaker on all the time, maintaining full aft stick and not once pushing forward, that is something I do not understand.
@@vertigo2893 No stick shaker in an A330 but they did manage to ignore the verbal stall warning over 20 times. PM didn't (apparently) know that PF was slightly holding his sidestick back' General loss of situational awareness. Not good ! Simply set appropriate power and AoA and you'll fly out of it.
@@pasoundman Unfortunately with the engines rapidly loosing power due to all of the ancillaries being wiped out the stall was inevitable. No side slip here so the 320 must stall in a very controllable way? The short clip of the final seconds of flight showed it to be going down in a stable way at a very high flair angle. Air speed too low to enable a glide. Not a pilot so need experienced comment here.
I said in #1 that there would be witness marks on the runway and that has proved to be correct.
@@delukxy Yes the A320's alpha floor protection will ensure that it effectively stalls gracefully into the ground. It has a shockingly nose high attitude in its final moments.
As always Juan Browne, you're on point with your information on this tragic accident. Hopefully the 2 survivors can give more details when they have recovered from their injuries.....
Why is TH-cam demonetizing these videos? They're educational and good points for discussion. This is exactly the type of video and the type of quality independent content creator YT should be encouraging.
Human error, like 98% of all catastrophic incidents resulting in loss of life.
Only because the industry has learnt from failures that were nothing to do with human error so now that problem is fixed the only weak link is us pilots. It's not that all of us are bad, it's that the machine is so good the only weak point is us now
But as with most aviation disasters there will be many factors aligning for this to happen. It's called the swiss cheese model
precisely
Arthur Walker-Trivett This exactly. Pilot error, but there’s no way that they forgot to put the gear down. Something is missing. It could well be that they were above 260kias, but probably not. It could have been an airspeed indicator malfunction. There are so many layers
Arthur Walker-Trivett
So true.
It’s quite possible factors may include the strange appetites in China...to the suppressed appetites during Ramadan.
Our world has such advanced technologies ...yet the civilizing of some cultures is so far behind advancements. It’s a horrible mix.
Thank you patrons and Juan! Appreciate you all supporting Juan's channel. Hope some day I can too.
Survivor accounts of flight events would be very helpful in developing more understanding. Waiting for them.
Also, brilliant account of preliminary observations, +blancolirio. Gonna' follow the story!
You're making the assumption that they'll be able to remember anything. TBI is practically an absolute, after a crash of this magnitude.
Survivor/witness accounts are often the worst. They always make up shit, especially when they don't comprehend what was going on.
Survivor accounts have been in the news for a few days here in Europe. One of the passengers who survived with barely a scratch on him sat in the front of the cabin, and told the news of an un-eventful (first) landing attempt. After the botched landing though, panic ensued onboard and they circled with problems clearly being felt and heard. Everything before the crash itself was clear in his mind he said, but he doesn't remember anything from after the impact, where he had passed out until rescuers shook him awake. Another passenger told a similar story.
The survivor told the news that during the first attempt at landing they felt three jolts which was actually the engine making contact with the runway thrice. Then he said the pilot managed to get the plane back in the air after that they remained in the air for a few minutes before the pilot announced that they should wear their seatbelts because the landing could be rough and that is the last thing he remembers, after that he woke up and saw fire everywhere, people screaming. He saw light followed it, jumped from about a height of 10 feet, from where people found and rescued him.
Survivors will be paid heavy amount of money to keep their mouth shut and will be instructed to present a false story!
OMG there were two PAX survived??? That is unreal!!!
This is a most amazing aviation channel on TH-cam!
Great info,.Thanks for making these so digestible,. All the charts and video references makes it really easy to follow what you're talking about. So many lives lost, and So many families changed forever. God bless them all.
thank Juan for the update, each time the mystery increase in the sense that the pilots ignore the landing gears warning not to be extended, let's wait to see what information will be given by the black boxes.
Thanks for this one Juan. Clearly some procedure was amiss in this approach.
Excellent information, as always. Happy to be your patron.
Very much appreciate your analysis and presentations with commentary. Aircraft wreck investigation reminds me so much of my years in traffic crash investigation & reconstruction then CSI/forensics. Even in the thick of a complicated homicide I always figured I didn't have the huge amount of detail that aircraft crash investigators had to deal with. In my CSI time I had the sad occasion to meet FAA investigators 2 times and I really admire the terrific job they have. I'm also a non-current private pilot. Thanks again, Juan for your channel.
You should not be de monetised for providing articulate and professional analysis. Seems like the pilot unfortunately really messed up.
hard ta blv@ It looks like NOW that AS was waaaay over, not allowing gear ta come down, rookie pilot? Afraid to lose job?
@@jamesprice6381 co-pilot as well. Usually 3 in the cockpit.
TH-cam/Google deliberately hide and deemphasize news that isn't filtered through approved propaganda outlets. Can't risk the party line getting disrupted.
I'm curious how he can claim it's demonetized in the video prior to posting it. Yes, I realize his previous post about this event was demonetized, but it seems he made the assumption prior to posting.
@@Phyde4ux TH-cam demonizes all "disturbing" content. Historically, all of his accident overview videos have been demonetized. I think he came close to stopping doing frequent videos because of it a few months ago. I'll see if I can dig up the link with his explanation.
Here's his explanation during the MAX updates:
th-cam.com/video/8yIqJZQDSn4/w-d-xo.html
Thankyou again for an excellent analysis of this crash. This would never be explained the way you did on a TV news source.
The thought of checklists keeps crossing my mind.
So brutal and sad. That is so difficult ....Peace to the families
Juan, you always do such an excellent job of covering these events.
Thanks Agent JayZ...we might need a breakdown the the accessory gear box on CFM engines....
My condolences. I wish the bereaved much strength in these difficult times.
Thank you Juan...i am a Pakistani and since the incident I am watching your videos...you provide very thoughtful analysis...please keep up the good work.
hard to do a go around with smashed engines. i have learned more about how not to fly from your videos.i thank you.
Scott Krempel Air Canada tried in Toronto in a DC8 few years back. Didn't work. All dead.
could that have been done on the second attempt hitting the runway then?
@@ChrisLoew didnt make the runway 2nd time round
Or "who" not to fly with.
They may have thought/wished it was only a tail strike.
Won’t know till we see what cockpit indications were immediately after the hit.
Thank you for your service, concise facts about this situation and your community backing you. Facts are so important so as many people can learn from the mistakes of others,as not to repeat those mistakes.
Im entering an integrated bachelors degree +commercial pilot school programme in my country this year. Everytime there's a crash it motivates me so much to study as hard as i can .so it never happens to me. Great analysis!
I always come to this channel for the facts for things like this. Juan you are the best source that we have for information. I also want to give my condolences to all the families involved.
I do want to ask why is this and the other videos on this crash been demonetized? It is respectful, factual. Besides I had to sit through two commercials before this video started so someone is making money off of it.
Your analysis seems spot on and shows your professional take on the matter. Keep up the good work.
TH-cam putting adds before demonetized videos is the kind of thing that keeps me using adblock.
use "TH-cam Vanced" APP fr android device...get all premium TH-cam features fr free 😉
@@vinaybhat7670 it makes my phone screen flicker
YT and Google in general are the bigger hypocrits, probably even worse than Microsoft. They keep putting "updates" on you hpone to the point it wont run anymore and buy the next one. Ohhhhh yes GOOGLE, ECO FRIEND !!!!! Microsoft, it was bashed BAD for their bussines behaviour, matained windows XP for more than 12 years. Android and apps ?. LOL .... GOOGLE is not your friend, its a CORPO trying to rule out how thing are done
Sir thank you for your time in making this video .As a Pakistani and a resident of Karachi i along with whole community is deeply concerned and looking for answers.We hope investigation will make all questions get answered. The news of airline crash in our area had left us all shocked.
Great comment Rizwan - It will be very interesting to read the accident report in due course! Thanks Juan for a very informative update.
Thanks so much, Juan! Your explanations are very helpful to an aviation layperson like myself. Hoping this would help bring closure to my fellow Pakistanis directly and indirectly affected by this trauma.
Well its sad and lot of lives ,lost , if what I saw on U TUBE is true , its a important lesson for every one , world wide and for all PILOTS
Thanks Juan for another great update even though TH-cam has an issue with the content. God bless their souls!
Just the fact that he was 4,000 feet down the runway, gliding above it, and before touching the runway, that certainly a go-around was called for.
We will never know what the thought processes were, but this incident was surely preventable.
You do a very good job delivering the news with fact. Keep up the good work you are doing. Thank you for your effort.
Thanks for the update. , Amazing to have any survivors onboard.
“All stories on this issue have been demonitized” - had to watch a stupid ad for a solar battery charger. Totally F GooTube to the Nth degree for making money on this issue
get a BRAVE BROWSER free NO ads :)
bruh, the BUILD quality is really CLEAN.
That stupid solar battery charger is showing for me as well. I'm so tired of this advertisement.
I get that shit ad EVERY video . Google says I can "fix it" by going to ad settings! I really wanna fix'em by telling every advertiser what they know but ignore . I dont buy nuttin!
@@robertl.fallin7062 4to w
Nice 👍 Job with our Mentour yesterday! Another Beautiful Day in Nevada City! Thnx! CJ
Latest Runway Inspection report:
"No belly touch only both engines touched alternately on runway
followed by a go around
The scratch marks suggest 1st touch with left engine at 4500 ft down,
followed by both engines touch 5500 ft down then alternative touches
more thicker ones from 6000 to 7000 ft then only right engine touch
with left off till last 1500 ft where it gets airborne for a visual closed
landing"
This report confirms that aircraft touched down on runway without
landing gears and speed was very high also . As ideally an aircraft
should touch down by 1500 feet down the runway if the speed is as
per defined procedure but here first engine impact is at 4500 feet
down the runway . The follows sketch depicts that only if the landing
gears are not down the aircraft will hit the engines and not the belly .
There is a clearance of approx 1 meter of engines of an airbus 320
from ground , so if landing gears are down there is no way engines
can hit the runway. Once gears are retracted only then engines will
touch the ground . So at least this thing is sure that aircrfat gears were
not lowered ( intentionally or any malfunction) yet to be determined .
Another data shown below also reveals that the aircraft came down
very low and then again climbed.
Thanks mate! Seems like one of the biggest pilot errors i‘ve seen ever... he was way to fast/high and had no landing gear, ignored the alarms and still tried to land
Those who are tasked to listen to the CVR, will perform a task that will be beyond miserable. I concur, Damn...
And too consider...
Strange Chinese appetites...Ramadan fasting.
Both were likely contributing factors.
Some humans are plain weird.
Plane veered.
@@Val_Halla777 Unfortunately it is impossible to ensure 100% pilot fitness and readiness for flight without offending some groups.
@@Val_Halla777 Pilots are not allowed fasting when on flying duty. I wonder if they were fasting or not...
It's actually quite the opposite. As an investigator with a board (NTSB, CAA'S) you tend to take the job with a forward attitude as they teach in training to take the situation as it is and that working on the case and figuring out what went wrong may ultimately save thousands of more lives. This is what drives individuals within this area of work
@Irfan Naveed Glad to hear that policy exists. Agreed the next question is if/how they enforce it.
I can’t imagine anyone’s at their best while fasting every day.
Archaic cultures and advanced technologies should not be mixed. IMHO
Juan....I learn so much from your channel, Thank you so much for all your FREE KNOWLEDGE....I’m sure I speak for a lot of people....🙏🏻
As always Juan, excellent analysis of the data. What gives with TH-cam demonetizing the video?!! You are a qualified, (maybe even more so) than any of the "Aviation Experts" featured on ABC, CBS, NBC and CNN.
You were the first with the story and evidence. We know it still has to be sorted out. You are the go to guy for aviation news. People are copying your hard work, but you are mentioned on many sites as an important source for news.
This is a very sad incident. Thank you for your fact based reports. Very difficult to understand why he went around! Prayers for the families. Stay safe my friend.
Just a personal theory: I think they were used to ignoring warning signals. And they just forgot about the landing gear. That is the only way all this makes at least a little sense.....
Thats very plausible
There is just one piece of the puzzle missing: what was distracting them?
How could they ignore the "TOO LOW; GEAR" from the GPWS?
noys also why were they used to ignoring warnings
@@pwoblem They like hasheesh and other stuff over there. I saw a video of the dangerous road there and the drivers all smoke marijana when they are driving so i bet the airplanes have hindu temples and beads and insense in the cockpit.
Thanks for the great analysis of this incident! Are any radar airspeed readouts available for the approach? Certainly appears that they were way too fast on approach.
"Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity"
@Fear The Bunny Robert J. Hanlon. Found on Wikipedia ;)
@Fear The Bunny It's known as Hanlon's Razor.
One can hide behind stupidity
Hector Hugh Monroe
Profound..
Keep in mind that accidents seldomly have a 1-point failure. More than one thing have to go wrong for an accident to happen and that's what is being investigated right now.
Maybe the crash could have been avoided if the captain ate a snickers 30 minutes before attempting the landing checklist.
Ramadan fatigue, you could hear it in the pilot's voice. Poor fella was beyond spent. Workload got away from him.
That's my guess since he was too fast(?), too late to the runway, had unfinished checklists, ignored beepers and the gear was up.
@@thedepartmentofredundancyd5160 Very good point. I lived in Egypt for a few years and Ramadan fatigue is a very real thing. I was in a taxi going a short distance in Cairo in the midst of Ramadan, the roads were empty and yet the visibly slowed taxi driver still managed to find another car to slam into (I used to get a lot of taxis all the time there, this was the only time I was ever involved in an accident).
Problem is I can see the Pakistani authorities wanting to cover that up if it turns out that Ramadan fatigue did indeed play a part. That initial approach is just completely nuts.
another user in case of glaring pilot’s error (bordering on criminal dereliction of duty) there is often just one point of failure - pilot’s brain.
Another excellent presentation with great clarity that can be understood by both the know and unknow
Anxiously waiting for the 4th video.
An awesome job Blancolirio - the three videos are an eye opener for anyone that follows Pakistani aviation sector that for a number of years has seen everything from Pilots with fake degrees to CEOs that have nothing to do with Civil aviation, their only qualification being retired Air Force officers. Add to this a financially struggling airline that is dependent on a government that in turn depends on the IMF. Inadequate training, rampant corruption is staff hiring.. the list goes on. But that is them, and you are fantastic. Thanks for these videos.
A theist 7
7
You completely ignore the so called democratic government who ruined Pakistan from 2008-18 and put all the blame on PAF which is the most competent Airforce in this region thanks that civilian don't run it. PIA was ruined cuz of unions like air league, PALPA etc who are on the payroll of corrupt parties PPP & PMLN. Noor Khan was also a retired PAF air marshal who transformed PIA and made it into one of the top airline in the world. Current CEO is slowly but surely improving things but he needs time and money to do it while under current economic woes it is getting tougher and tougher. PIA revenue is up, it has made gross profit for the first time in 8 years. What were previous administrations doing, a German CEO under last government took away one plane along with him and sold it to an Israeli company for use in a making of a commercial film.
That must have been really scary for the passengers (and startling/ scary for the crew also). Sad. The pilots probably should have just tried to slow the aircraft and make a crash landing on the engines/nose after the scraping/failed landing attempt.
That is what you would think on retrospect since we know the engine was damaged but TOGAs are common: in cross winds, coming too fast, hard landings etc. Plus they were out of runway space to pull it off landing near the halfway point. Yes in this case they should not have gone around, but we can say that only because they crashed later. Can't see the future, can we.
Yes this must've been absolutely terrifying for passengers
Juan, I want to say first thank you for your excellent and always respectful coverage of these tragic accidents. I found you the day of Kobe’s crash. I am interested in flying as I’ve logged many hours as a travelling sales rep selling software for many years, and my husband is particularly interested in historical planes. For our wedding gift I gave him private flying lessons with a pilot I met on a flight once who happened to live in the same city as us. My hubby was pretty happy about his time in the air. We are fortunate to live 5 minutes from the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum, for Father’s Day a couple years ago I bought us a family pass and on Father’s Day they have a bbq and have lots of pilots on hand to talk about the planes and the really cool thing is you can’t pay to fly in several of the warplanes, I bought my husband tickets for the North American B-25 Mitchell, my plan was to buy him a ticket for the Lancaster but those are $3600 but that flight is 60 minutes, his flight on the B-25 was supposed to just be 20 minutes ( still pricey at $650/seat) but the Chipmunk had to do anemergecy landing in a farmers field so the plane my hubs was on circled around it until an emergency crew got there , everyone was fine and my husbands 20 minute flight turned into a 60 minute flight. I have to say though my heart kinda did a lunge to the bottom of my stomach when they announced over the loud speaker they wanted to see me at the ticket booth for the B-25, when I got there they said , there’s been an emergency landing ( heart evevatored to the basement) then they say, it wasn’t his plane that he’s on, but he will be longer than anticipated as they are circling until emergency crews get there. Yeash. I’m telling you I wheeled my son ( in a stroller) right over to the beer tent and downed a cold brew just to take the edge of the rattled nerves !
Anyway, sorry for the long story. Just really came here to tell you how much we both enjoy your content. Thank you for what you do.
There's a true Canadian, cheers
Whoever you talked to could have started the conversation with a smile and said: "It's gonna be a few more minutes before the B-25 lands. Another aircraft is having trouble and ...."
Also, I wish to THANK you for your military service and you're loved ones sacrifices during that time. When I see anyone in uniform, I go OUT of my way to thank them for their service. For those reading my comment who HAVE served, THANK YOU for your service and those of you're loved ones sacrifices. May we remember the HONORED fallen not just today, but everyday.
You are the queen of platitudes, aren't you?
You did a great job in providing your analysis and opinion about this sad plane crash incident. Thanks. Take care.
Does the sound of the chime differ in regards to the issue of the landing gear i.e. attempt to lower above 260 knots compared to failure to lower at a certain altitude?
If below 750ft agl, there is repeating annunciation "too low, gear"
CRC continuous repetitive chime. Lots of ECAM messages and warnings
So just so I understand, the chimes/warnings are different between:
1. Lowering gear too fast (question - does it let you actually lower the gear? Shouldn't it lock you out from doing so?)
2. Lowering gear at allowed speed, but there's a malfunction and the gear hasn't lowered and locked.
3. You've forgotten to lower the gear.
So somehow, one of these weren't noticed by the crew?
Paul Santos Watch the video. It actually answers your questions.
High speed approach, tapped the runway three times? What on earth was going on in that cockpit?
It must have coincided with mandatory call to prayer and an inability to multi task more then one thing at a time.
Hopefully, when the black boxes data is accessed we'll find out !
#Dontflythirdworldairlines
Three tuch and goes without landing gear! That's just crazy! Coming in to fast!
@@ShortArmOfGod So first world airlines doesnt crash, dumbhead?
So sad! Thanks for reminding us how quickly things get can out of hand when minds are incapacitated by lack of experience and cockpit management.
Wow thank you Juan I don't miss any of your videos 😊.
Would be interesting to see the gripe sheet from this aircraft going back before the shutdowns. Did it have an unresolved issue with the air speed indicators? Possibly a new issue created during storage, bugs making nests in the pitot tubes?
The CVR and FDR will likely tell the tale. Did they choose to ignore the warning? Did they decide it was something unrelated to the gear and press on?
Assuming the Pakistani Aeronautical Administration rules mirror the FAA it would be safe to assume the speed limit below 10,000 would be 200 knots and if it was exceeded the tower would be on them about it. So an actual over speed limit for the gear deployment isn't likely.
How "rusty" were the flight crew? Aircraft don't store well and neither do skills. Did they get a 2 month "vacation" and then thrown right back into the cockpit or were they spending some time in the simulator while they were not flying and before getting back into the cockpit?
I think there is a lesson here for everyone as the airlines start to increase flight schedules with increasing demand to go over the aircraft with a fine toothed comb if they have been stored and to check pilots for skill retention while they were grounded. It sounds like either or both could be factors in this accident and really could happen elsewhere.
Mud daubers in the pitot tubes, hadn't thought of that, those little critters will put nests in anything hollow.
I actually fear that 1-2 month break due to Coronavirus is the reason behind this accident.
Would you mind elaborating a little more?
Because I don't see where that would have, erm.. _major_ relevance, I guess? Would the plane being grounded for 1 - 2 months really be that much of a potential issue? Or even the pilot(s) not flying for the same amount of time? (I've heard the pilot had a pretty significant amount of flight time, and that makes it difficult for me to believe he could be _that_ rusty after only two months, if that time is accurate.)
Of course, I'm also (obviously) no aviation expert.
*EDIT:*
I'm just curious to hear what could have broken down in such a short amount of time that could cause mechanical failure?
there was no mechanical failure because the captain would have immediately told the tower. This captain surely is another fake who got the job as an airline pilot with faked documents
potential plot twist: what if this plane was never grounded, and that this asset and its crew were one of the few that remained flying...? ok discuss.
Hi Juan, I do learn a lot from your updates. Especially the lack of sensationalism that you use to tell us the facts. Would you mind posting a new update about the Tittabawassee River Dams situation, if this doesn't mean too much of work for you, please? Thanks a lot for all the great information you give to us.
I should do that...pretty busy though right now.
@@blancolirio I'm really curious to know what's going on now, four days after, downstream in Saginaw and other towns. Where is all that water going?
You can search on TH-cam or Google and can see news reports on the days after the dam failure and flood.
Pau Sabaté I live near the dam that collapsed on the Tittabawassee River. The formal investigation is not complete yet, so this information is preliminary. The rainfall event prior to the dam failure was variable with different stations in the area reporting somewhere between 4 and 7 inches over about 2.5 days. This is a rainfall event we get about every two years. The ownership of the dam has been controversial. The company that owned the dam was not making enough off the electricity generated to pay for the maintenance of the dam. The dam met State of Michigan requirements, but not the new federal requirements, however the structure was judged sound and the gaps were around operation of the gates during ice conditions and a requirement for a larger spillway to prevent overtopping. There were also some incomplete inspections that required significant soil removal to perform. In 2018, the dam owners indicated an unwillingness to invest additional capital in the dam structure. They were not receiving any significant aid from the government or the owners of property around the lake. The license to generate power at the site was revoked. The owners of the dam, Boyce Hydro, lowered the water level in the lake to what they considered a safe level. This was however at a level that made boating on the lakes risky and boat docks too high to successfully launch or retrieve boats. A law suit was filed by a newly created Lake Owners Association. The settlement of the lawsuit was the official formation of a lake owners association with the power to levy fees to payoff a loan to purchase the dam from Boyce. The purchase was not expected to be completed until 2022 because of the complexity I. Securing the financing for the loan. At the same time, a lawsuit was filed by the State of Michigan against Boyce for lowering the level of the lake against the order of the State of Michigan Department of Natural Resources. According to the DNR suit, the lowering of the water level endangered fresh water muscles. Boyce became mostly a paper company after the Lake Owner agreement and operation and maintenance of the dam was taken over by the Lake Owner Association. Some of the gate improvement work had started over the winter and spring. In late April, the Michigan DNR through the Michigan Attorney General filed another law suit against Boyce prohibiting the lowering of the lake water level past a certain point. When Boyce operated the dam, they would lower the water level to create storage capacity in the lake for the rain water runoff. This year, that was not done. When the rain came, the lakes were already at a pretty high level. A friend who lives on Wixom lake commented to me before the rain came that the lake level was up against his sea wall which was uncommon when significant rain was expected. The levels in the lakes could not drain fast enough during the rain event to keep up with the incoming flow. Water started over the spillway at the upstream dams increasing the load on the Edenville dam at Lake Wixom. Signs of seepage started to appear on the Edenville dam as the level rose and the dam began to be overtopped. The seepage created piping and the dam failed catastrophically. The ~15 billion gallons of water in Lake Wixom enters the downstream Sanford Lake and emptied in approximately one hour. This wall of water caused the dam on Sanford Lake to be overtopped. Debris from the upstream event also began to plug off the Sanford Lake dam gates. The overtopping water of the earth berm portion of the dam eroded the earth berm resulting in a lose of containment for the Sanford dam, but this event occurred over about 30 hours. The total water flow caused significant flooding and damage down the entire river until it dumped into the Great Lake. Both dams are no longer able to retain water and the system is reverting to the river it once was.
@@da62owner86 Thanks for that. Really good info. Typical compounding set of issues.
I had a hunch that there was some element of "human" error. Like the author says, the crew should have initiated a go around at an earlier stage, maintained a holding pattern and took time to figure out a solution to the problem.
Several human Mistakes: 1. Coming in too high at 4000 feet. Should have been 1000 ft. 2. Did not engage landing gear. 3. Controller did not pass on the tracking to control tower, who may have spotted that the landing gear had not engaged. 4. Buildings built too close to the airport. Yet to be determined: Was the pilot fasting. They are not allowed to fast on the days they are flying, as per PIA regulations.
Pilots are human beings, even god made a mistake in creating this fucking world.
Why is this channel demonitized? This is a great channel. I flew PIA from KHI-ISB and back back in 2016, great airline.