I am a man. I'm 48 years old. I spent years of my life feeling worthless because I couldn't live up to the patriarchal ideal. Once I finally escaped my toxic marriage, I found myself rejecting the ideal altogether. It's been many years, and I'm still deconstructing my conditioning. It's nice to hear someone speak so eloquently and succinctly on the subject. Thank you, Jesse Gender, for recommending this video.
we love this freedom for you!!! none of us are free until all of us are free. that includes men!!!!! I wish nothing more than for you to keep healing and finding your own peace on your own terms ☺️
@@painunending4610 never said that maintaining good mental health was easy. Like with physical health, you still need to put the work in. You need something to replace cold detachment because while that's often the path of least resistance, it's also poison (I say from abundant personal experience). Even if it comes from trauma and/or depression, you've gotta fight that.
@@dynamicworlds1 cold detachment works well for me. It comes naturally to me and I've gotten this far in life with it with all the amenities like education, friends and a job and whatever. I'm always gonna try the path of least resistance because it's easy. Why would I want to make my life harder than it already is lol? Why would I want to work for something that's hard to achieve naturally? I'd much rather just be myself and love that person
as a trans man, i have noticed within my own community and also within myself a very strong lean towards unhealthy masculinity as a way to feel less feminine. a lot of the time when a trans man is still in the denial stage of their transition, especially if that denial stage is happening at an earlier stage such as in middle or high school; they will start to fall into everything theyve seen the men around them pressuring eachother to be, and will end up suffocating themselves and their opportunity for happiness along the way. for me, my parents never pressured me or my brother to fit into traditional masculinity. i do however live deep in the bible belt and had a majority cis male friendgroup during my denial stage, which encouraged those awful ideas and behaviors around masculinity as a way to make the “girl” in their friendgroup more acceptable and less like an accessory. good education on what a man does NOT have to be (the traits of unhealthy masculinity) is vital for EVERYONE, including cis women who will unknowingly push men more into the rabbithole if they aren’t aware enough, and “cis women” who will later come out as trans men or nonbinary people who may be influenced by unhealthy masculinity otherwise. edit: after checking out your profile i see you are also trans!! so glad to see other trans masc people making content about the unhealthy points of masculinity. lots of people don’t believe it effects our communities, but god take one surface level look and the online discourse and it becomes unbelievably obvious.
Couldn't agree more that everyone needs that education. And I very much relate to the experience you described--I was surrounded by positive masculinity at home, but still internalized so much crap. I see my "not like other girls" phase as very much my trans man toxic masculinity struggle.
As a masc leaning enby, I definitely went through a "not like other girls" phase as an attempt to impress a lot of the masculine figures in my life I looked up to and fit in with my guy friends. I would be curious to see stats on how common it is among a trans masc demographic to go through something like that, because from what I've seen it feels like a very common experience.
I'm a cis guy in my early 20s, never seen myself as all that traditionally masculine or feminine really and still trying to figure out where I fit with all that. If nothing else, thank you for the validation that being emotional around others isn't weakness and that refusing to be part of the domination and intimidation side of masculinity is not something to ridicule.
Re: is there a point at which you noticed people stopped hugging you, etc: Yes. I was a friendly, affectionate kid, which people found charming until I moved to Mississippi at 5. There, I got bullied by both my peers and the employees at my daycare. It didn't start with my family until around the time I turned 7; I still remember the shock I felt the first time my dad recoiled from a hug. The older I got, the more often I got disapproving/disgusted looks from people for wanting hugs, crying (or any expression of emotion beside joy or anger), or asking for help. When I tried to change, in order to stop the bullying I was experiencing from all sides, that attempt to fit into the mold people seemed to expect from me led me down the path of the bully myself. Luckily, a combination of influences helped me recognize what was happening and at least stop actively hurting the people around me around age 11, but unfortunately, that was too late to prevent the trauma to the free people I'd been bullying (like my little sister, who probably still deals with my hand-me-down trauma today). And my eventual adoption of feminist thought was in response to a near-death experience, where I was victimized for aspects of masculinity that were usually part of the privilege. I don't feel like rehashing all the details right now, but the short story is that I was assumed to be guilty of domestic violence because the person (my stepmother) who actually did violence (to me) played into male stereotypes to get the police to come arrest me at gunpoint. And even though I was innocent, I realized that the only reason this was happening was because in most cases it probably would've been true. At least growing up, men in that area would casually joke about doing violence to women, and even at 14, I knew a lot of domestic abuse survivors. Enough to know that it was more common than anyone would admit, and usually perpetrated by men (though, with the way that even young boys are dismissed when they allege abuse, it may not be quite as skewed as data would currently suggest). It's a downside/backlash of male hegemony that I was able to recognize in that situation.
For me it was me who did it. I used to hug my dad goodnight every single night. As a teenager I suddenly stopped because I didn't want him to smell weed or booze on me or find it odd if i only avoided him at the certain times i had those smells upon me. After that he always kind of held back from hugs. He was the only person I really ever hugged until adulthood where I now hug a lot of my friends a lot of the time.
Holy shit, thank you for sharing this and being willing to revisit those memories. It takes a lot of strength and self-awareness to take something painful (and terrifying) like that and turn it into something positive. I really hope you've been finding more support and connection since.
i also grew up in mississippi, and i must say, sad as it is that is an extremely common situation for men in the state. i have trans femme friends who have gone through horrible abuse and still feel pressured by masculinity to either keep quiet or brush it off because society still sees them as men, and they feel that expressing that pain will out them against their will. i also know cis men who came out to me as gay (me being the only openly queer person they knew of) and then later publicly revoked it and shamed me for “tricking them” into believing they were queer because they were pressured by authority figures and peers to think that they as a man have no right to their own autonomy of love and emotion. its really sad. i am so sorry you had to deal with that, but i am glad you were able to recognize what was happening and hopefully find a way to overcome it (to the best of your ability, it’s extremely difficult even in the best circumstances)
I'm sorry that you stopped being hugged. Do your friends hug you now? I personally avoid hugs from my family by choice, for my own reasons, but hugs from friends are great. I would also like to say it's terrible when men aren't believed, yes because it's more likely for men to perpetrate but I still think victims should be believed, including men. I've had to argue with men that, no, being R-worded by a woman isn't a dream come true for any (straight) man. I'd like to add that there's no way to say how skewed the data is. In this modern age where social media tends to stand by victims and post Me Too there tends to be this idea that women are believed far more often than men, and while women are more likely to be believed, they don't believe us either. I promise you. It's, unfortunately more of a not caring about victims in general thing, more than anything else. Speaking from experience, I've been abused by men in front of people post-Me-Too and nothing was done, no one cared. I know many women who have, I am very close with a woman I've been friends with since high school who dated a much larger abusive man who'd assault her in front of people, yet it was a rumour that she would overreact and be dramatic cause she'd freak out and panic if he ever seemed even slightly angry at her. I know very successful men who've assaulted multiple women, myself included, in public. I have seen and been on the recieving end of treated like a villain for not liking a charismatic and well-liked-by-others abuser. I've yelled at men for not listening to other men and I got written off as crazy. Similar to the concept of "eff the patriarchy it doesn't care about any of us (man or woman)". Unfortunately when it comes to these things they don't care about any of us here as victims too, man or woman. This is not to minimize what you went through, that sounds horrible and even as a woman I've been in similar positions from my own abusive mum claiming I abused her (refer above to when I said I don't hug family by choice). I couldn't imagine having a gun pulled on you like that, that sounds TERRIFYING. I'm so sorry. Hopefully you're much safer now?
Really sorry to hear your story. I am surprised that your experiences led you to feminism. I don't know of any significant feminist organisation that doesn't gender domestic abuse as being solely about female victims (even though about a third of victims are male) ignoring the suffering that male victims go through and campaign for funding solely for women's charities. Feminism (and the concept of the patriarchy) is ultimately based on the premise that 'men have the power and women are victims'. It's for reasons such as this that I describe myself as an egalitarian rather than a feminist. Victims of domestic abuse (and many other situations) can be male, female or non-binary.
Well-said, dude! Also hell yeah retinol. I'm on a maintenance dose of accutane to keep the acne at bay and wowza my skin is incredible for a 30 year old bahaha. Seriously one of the coolest things about being trans imo is the explicit awareness of gendered expectations. Cis guys were essentially "groomed" into toxic masculinity from birth, where as a trans guy I get to take a step back and go "Ya know, what? Skin care and nail polish are bomb. I enjoy being a silly little guy who supports my friends and talks about my feelings." And I get to consciously create the guy I want to be, rather than just fitting a mold like cis people are pressured to do. Don't get me wrong, trans people feel immense pressure to conform to gender expectations as well, but my experiences and my insight gave me the strength to just say "fuck it".
Also holy hell dude I absolutely internalized male expendability for a hot minute and it fucked with my mental health big time. It's something I don't think most cis men are even aware of. I was able to recognize it as a problem ONLY because it was new and unfamiliar.
I was about to say the same thing but you worded it so much better than i could have ever done, As a trans man so often find myself falling into stereotypical “masculine” behaviour around other i don’t know and it makes me feel awful. Because I don’t want people to be intimidated by my masculinity but to see it as a protective and caring force. And realizing this makes me able to go “Oh! I can be masculine in any way i want to be while being a sweet, and a protective force around those i care about
When I was in second grade, my teacher told my parents that I was hugging my friend too much in class. They told me she was being ridiculous. In retrospect I’m super grateful to my parents, and I’m now widely regarded as the best hugger of the family. 😁
I think trans people in general are in some of the best positions possible to critique and reform gender as both an institution and as a embodied identity. I've learned more about positive masculinity and men's issues as a whole from trans guys' recounts of their experiences than from any other source. When you've only ever been socialized one way, it can be like having blinders on to things that are obvious to people socialized differently. Videos like this are absolutely integral to me being able to effectively interrogate my relationship to my experiences with male socialization as an AMAB person. I think an unintended but really positive effect of videos like these is they can really help out transfems like me! A significant reason I delayed transition was because I wasn't able to determine the difference between hating living as a man or hating internalized patriarchal masculinity and the ways it prevented me from fostering genuine emotional connections with others. In a cruel twist of fate, traditional male socialization in my boyhood stunted my emotional growth so bad that I couldn't identify a single desire I had for myself... which only made the questioning phase harder. After I started to learn what positive masculinity could look like and started trying to embody it myself, I realized manhood wasn't for me! But it took resources like this to even begin discovering a more authentic form of self-expression. For that, I'll always be greatful.
Wow, that's really insightful and cool how it parallels my experience with coming to terms with being a transmasc nonbinary person (so much questioning over whether or not I was nonbinary or just internalizing and resenting patriarchy).
@@blueoutrun Same here as a (somewhat genderfluid) trans man! It was only when I deconstructed toxic standards for women and got to the point of self-love that it became apparent womanhood in general just didn't 'fit' or feel natural at all.
Not a man, but I stumbled upon your video because Jessie Gender reposted it. Just want to say this is so beautifully put, and that it makes me so happy to see this kind of content. As someone who has always had friends that “dunk on men” as a joke - both male and female - I always have felt uncomfortable with that sort of humor. The “men are dumb” or “mediocre by default” or “easily replaceable” has always irked me because it perpetuated this patriarchal pyramid of expectations. Like, recently, with this “female gaze” stuff on TikTok. Ive been feeling so uncomfortable about it because I dont even think there IS a female gaze. It is weird to gender preferences and claim them as universal, and then say men are consistently too stupid or one track minded to even understand it. Its so… condescending. I can see how it is damaging to someones psyche. I always thought if I were a man, Id feel expendable because of it. And thats the thing with people like Tate or Jordan Peterson: they appreciate “masculine traits” by saying things like “men have always had to protect and serve” and “men have built everything, have gone to war for their families”, which is… objectively true, even if they are gendered obligations. It makes young impressionable men finally feel appreciated; like they have something good to offer the world. And that makes me feel so sad. I wish society would appreciate men and masculinity more before they have even done any “heroic” deeds. Masculinity is needed just as much as femininity. It is a beautiful thing.
Yeah it's disgusting how jp and Tate (and others) prey upon these people that feel rejected by society. I remember back in 2014ish when this first started taking off (mainstreamy at least) and I had friends who were like "you need to checkout this jp guy. He's changed my life" and based solely on their description I immediately thought of him as a cult leader and was saddened. I did look into him later on and it just confirmed my thoughts about him using preacher tactics in a semi-scientific way that played upon this groups fears and feelings of inadequacy. The whole thing just makes me sad.
@@GameTimeWhy Definitely. It’s scary to me how they commoditize human worth as if it’s something that triumphs empathy entirely. Because, of course, everyone sees a woman’s worth by her beauty and who shes slept with, and everyone sees a man’s worth by how much money he makes and how much he can fight. T_T. And thats just how it is, apparently. Dehumanizing.
@@painunending4610 I am so sorry about that, that’s so sad. I have a younger brother who I love to death. I would do anything for him to feel like he is not an expendable pawn for anyone and that he does not need to carry the burden of being a breadwinner. You are not a role to play. You’re a human!! Hope you believe that!!! Because youre not expendable!!!!!!!!
This is only barely related, but this talk of 'dominance' reminds me of when I was a kid and I thought that "nice guys finish last" meant "in order to be a good person, you should lose sometimes".
Its more a cost that can happen due goig against the grain. I do think you win probably as much as you loose. Bt there is a cost of ot playing by forced rule. Doesnt mwea you shouldnt try to win well. Besides winning is relative.
One of my defining role models was Jean Luc Picard. I don't recall him ever seeking to dominate through force, but always trying to understand and learn. He still has the toxic trait of emotional distance which took me a long time to unlearn, but the way his character celebrated intelligence, wisdom, and and competence was formative for me.
There are so many healthy (and unhealthy) masculinity themes to explore in Star Trek, I absolutely love it. I love how Riker was very much the warmth to Picard's more chilly side.
He's a great example! I was going to mention Doctor Who (for me, from the late 70s and 80s, Tom Baker into Peter Davison). I mean, I was always the smart, nerdy kid at school, so I was never "competing" in the same way as maybe, sporty boys - but he was an example of a hero that used intelligence and science to solve his problems rather than brute strength and violence.
@@paulhammond6978 The Doctor in general has been a wonderful example of positive masculinity. Never cruel or cowardly. Never give up, never give in. And if you ever are, always make amends.
Spock?! or worf even. I really like worf working on his bias and might be because worf deconstructs the awful klingon things while embracing the best and while trying to fit in and figuring everything out with growing pains. But he does without hesitation, figuring that out, he is most of the time also pretty positive masculine knowing when toliste toothers and not give ito the easy thing, and break the expectation for omething bettr as is spock and him connecting despite difficulties and still eing th cool guy while being emotioal and find himself. But worf probably more, worf is vunny as wll ut he is a pretty good male rolemodel too, especiall because his constant struggle to figur that stuff out, wats good, what should get rid of and openin up, and all that thrown at him. Especially the klingon ideals.
Just recently my friend told me that their spouse of 1 year and partner of nearly a decade were getting divorced. I'm not their closest friend, and they have closer friends and family that I am sure are giving them close and intimate emotional support, but right after that conversation I was mortified by the degree to which I feel like I failed to proactively comfort them and try and get them to talk to me about it. Maybe they didn't want to open up to me, but I could have done a lot more to make it clear that I was available for them if they did. And I'm someone who makes a constant conscious effort to go against my learned toxic-masculine instincts. Just goes to show how deep this stuff runs.
Depending on the specific circumstances I don't think there'd be anything wrong with following up on that conversation to offer the support you would like to have given :)
It does run deep, and it makes you feel almost frozen in those instances. I agree with what insertcreativenamehere7970 said, though, it's not too late to reach out and let them know you're there for support if they need it (though I understand feeling awkward if a chunk of time has passed.)
@@FinntasticMrFox yeah I did message them like an hour later saying I was available if they wanted to talk about it more, and I was glad I did. There's a lot of pushback against text communication when it comes to emotional and personal things, but it can be a realllly unobtrusive way to offer support to someone who maybe isn't in the mood to hash it all out with you at the moment. Especially for ND people.
I really loved this video ! I'm a woman but it really gave me the tools to discuss patriarchy with my friends and my boyfriend. The fact that it's not women against patriarchy but everyone against it is something I always struggled to explain to people. This video explained it really well
High key needed this video. I'm finally going to therapy consistently and found that the more I strive to be the best version of myself, the more I distance myself from my masculinity. What I was taught of "being a man" by society and my family really only caused me to harm myself and others in life. I've been questioning my gender a lot lately because of that and trying to find some positive masculinity that I feel like defines me. TBH I think I'm just non-binary and working on finding the courage to express myself how I want to.
This is such a wholesome comment. Wish you the best of luck on your journey and Im glad you have therapy and are working on yourself. Im an AFAB person but I am also questioning my gender and I know exactly how you feel about expression. Solidarity, sibling! Stay strong!
@@janana7997 thank you 🥰 I hope you also figure out what best defines you, and I really really hope that you have a community of people who will celebrate the truest version of you!
I'm AFAB nonbinary and that's relatable. I really recommend the therapy book "You and Your Gender Identity" by Dara Hoffman-Fox to work through it (even if it turns out that you're cisgender). Anyway, I find it really nice that for nonbinary folks that no matter what gender we were assigned, we all have very relatable experiences and feelings to navigate about our AGAB.
Holy cow, this was so good. Hearing you explain the double standard of patriarchy as why "men don't think they are worth taking care of" really, really made everything sink in for me. Thank you for making something so profoundly cool and awesome.
This is another great video! Thank you! I liked your point about separating patriarchy from men. I think you're right that a lot of guys get defensive because they hear "patriarchy" and think men are being singled out as villains when, really, everyone participates in the system. In a way, patriarchy is like a game where everyone plays, but there can only be one winner. It guarantees that the winner will be a man (and a cishet, able, white one) but every other man will be a loser, just like women and nonbinary people. And, like you suggest, the guy who wins will be despised. So why are we playing this game in the first place? It sucks.
Something to remember is 'patriarchy' roughly means 'rule of the *fathers* ', not 'rule of men'. It is only a few elites who get to enjoy the benefits of the hierarchy
@@painunending4610 This is actually a point that's been nagging at me for awhile as I've come to accept what most progressives yters mean when they say "patriarchy". In the same vein of Finn moving away from the term toxic masculinity, as he deems it a little outdated, and confrontational, I often wrestle internally with the notion of whether patriarchy is truly the term we need to use to describe this societal system. Obviously Bell Hooks thought so, and I see a lot of progressives insist we must use patriarchy as it's the only accurate word to describe this flawed system. Still, as you pointed out, and maybe this is more the symptom of capitalism, it seems like this system is more about propping up elites, I doubt the people getting the most out of this give a damn about fathers being head of their households so long as the peasants keep working and they remain on top.
From my perspective, I and others get defensive because that’s how people who talk about patriarchy usually define it in an accusatory tone towards us men, as a system that all men created to oppress women, as a system that men are responsible for all struggles, and are all privlaged, no matter if he has none and his life is garbage, and must fix it themselves. Then when you even so much as discuss an issue that a man or men face, people with this belief then turn to blame men at the fault of their own issues because we all apparently built the patriarchy. It’s due to how others villify men or soley focus on men as a fault when defining patriarchy that makes men be so defensive when the word comes up, including me.
Im not your target audience but this is so fascinating. I have literally never thought about some of the things mentioned in the video in my entire life. Thanks!
Kazama Kiryu from the Yakuza series has been a model of positive masculinity since I started playing the games. Obviously, the constraints of the game's medium see him getting in a lot of unnecessary fights, but his interactions in the majority of substories and the cabaret club side game reveal a thoughtful, caring man who wants to overcome the stony-faced stoicism that years of trauma and hardship have given him. At his very core, Kiryu is a protector who wants to leave a better world than the one he was raised in, and I stan
This is a great video! I've felt a desire for left leaning content creators to not only deconstruct harmful ideas, but also construct (optional) positive frameworks for concepts like masculinity. Personally, I find it a lot easier to understand and change when I can have goals and values to look towards, instead of negative examples to avoid. You are an amazing creator and I loved the empathetic perspective from which you approached this topic!
This focus on the protective aspect of strength actually reminds me of an idea by Tadeusz Kotarbiński. His life's works included building a system of secular ethics, independent of religious traditions. He postulated that its cornerstone should be the attitude of a "dependable caregiver/guardian". Mind you, his ethical system wasn't intended for men only, but he was male, so perhaps this colored his perspective. Also, looking at his biography, he was a shining example of what we would today call positive masculinity. BTW: thank you for the great video, and thanks to Jesse Gender for recommending it.
I like how you touched upon benevolent sexism and how that's not a good thing either! I think a lot of people can warp into benevolent sexists in an effort to be more positive but they end up just reinforcing the women are weak stereotype. I like the "are you a safe person to be around" being a part of strength!!!! This is so wonderful!
OMG why am i getting so many adverts for soap that basically start with 'here's why girls dont like you'? Like seriously do you think im gonna fall for that? Reminding me that girls dont like me does NOT make you want to buy your product lmao I guess its better than capitalism just targeting women? Equality in oppression. yay
“Men both real and fictional who exemplify positive masculinity” it’s ok we both know you mean most of the characters from Lord of the Rings. In all seriousness though, this is a really well done video.
I fell into some aspects of toxic masculinity in my first year of transitioning. I don't think I was mean to anyone else (I hope not), but I did think I had to follow certain rules to prove that I'm a man. How I dress, my posture, my speech patterns, etc. I eventually realized that this wasn't proving my masculinity, it was just play-acting. So I went back to just doing how I do naturally. Which, oddly enough, are mostly traits that I get from my father. Even when I was a little kid I was told constantly, "You are just like your dad." So I was masculine the entire time. It's just that my principal model of masculinity, my father, is feisty drama queen who loves ABBA and showtunes.
Oh this is SUCH a good video! Woof the question about if you ever noticed a point when people stopped hugging/asking how you were hit me like a brick lol. I watched it shift over the first few months of T and it still breaks my heart. For a long time I felt apologetic when interacting with women because of how I was suddenly being treated compared to before, like I was doing something wrong by being a man instead of a woman and I felt bad about it. I've worked through that now, but mannn I still miss being treated like I have emotional depth. Some people do, but others seem to assume I have the range of a sponge.
Also if you want a positive example of strength I recommend “the body improvement club” from mob psycho 100. Yes they are gym bros but they use strength to protect and not harm. And are super encouraging! When the scrawny kid joins they don’t laugh at his cardio. They say “you lasted 5 minutes! That’s twice than your last run great job!”
P.S. re 17:24 - I've definitely had certain friends who ask me to pick them up when I hug them. They delight in it, and I delight in their joy at it. Good times. :)
I’ve been looking for something like this. I was never really raised on toxic masculinity, but I still ended up developing the social/emotional isolation. It’s something I’m still working on and I’ve been getting help. I can trace the degradation of my social skills as I got older and all of it started to get to me me. I had a ton of friends in preschool, A solid group of 4 in middle school, and 1 by the time I graduated high school. I thought college would be a new start for me but it wasn’t. I didn’t make any friends my first year in college because I had forgotten how. I’m doing much better now, but I still think about how hard it was to make friends. Every connection I made fell through because I had been taught never to open up to people. I used to enjoy crying and the emotional catharsis it provided, but I can’t anymore. I’m lucky that I never went down the toxic masculinity pipeline like you described. Honestly I think it was only my brother and my best friend who kept me sane and out of that pit. I also just hated the misogynists too much to join them. You are completely right about negative concepts of masculinity not being replaced with anything. For the longest time I’ve been rejecting all of those toxic mindsets but I didn’t have anything to replace it with. Toxicity and masculinity were inextricably linked while I was growing up. It was the same for my brother. He’s a trans man and he’s told me in the past that he was reluctant to identify as a man because of the belief that men are toxic. I actually thought that I might be nonbinary for the longest time because I didn’t identify with traditional masculinity. I’m still working out how to be a man outside of traditional gender roles, but I’m getting there. I completely agree with your strength = protection rather than violence. (without being condescending/benevolently misogynist). The thing that makes me feel the best about myself is that other people feel safe around me. It’s something I want to be a core of who I am, so I might as well put it front and center in whatever my masculinity ends up looking like. Thank you so much for this, really.
And thank *you* for this wonderful comment. It's heartbreaking how often I hear people describe that experience, of suddenly finding it hard to make friends, or experiencing isolation. I've also heard from a great many trans men that they experienced the same thing your brother did, a reluctance (sometimes even fear) to acknowledge themselves as men. I'm really glad to hear you've been getting help, that alone is a huge stride, and I'm happy to know that the process of building that healthy archetype is working for you. It's not easy work, but damn if it isn't fulfilling. 💙
Kinda awkward after venting all that in a TH-cam comment, but the reason I never really connected with my masculinity is because I’m a trans woman. Oops
I've never been a very macho man, and that has never bothered me. However, it has been very isolating to me throughout my life. Thank you for talking about this
This makes me think of what I read/heard about Peter Cullen's role as Optimus Prime. Cullen's brother was a military officer who served in Vietnam and Cullen asked him for advice on how to play the role of this leader character. His brother said "Don't be afraid to make him care about his team members."
A year too late haha! But I think Gomez Addams (the original one played by John Astin) from the Addams family is a perfect example of positive masculinity. He embodies confidence, doesn't seem to mind that his household is pretty much a matriarchy (Morticia is the head of the household), is involved with his kids, doesn't seem to care about money or status, is close with his family and supportive of them, and is always willing to help out others in need. You gotta watch that show man! Edit: oh he also normalised men using eyeliners lol
Hey, this is exactly the video I was looking for. I spent years struggling with this and just weeks before, I reached the conclusion that patriarchy itself was hurting me. Not, other men, but the system. And you put it beautifully. Thanks a ton for this video. This was much needed.
I love when the TH-cam algorithm actually shows me content and creators I actually want to see. Just stumbled on this video by chance. I value the evidence based approach in tandem with offering actual solutions and a path forward. 10/10
Merry Christmas Mister Fox! Thank you for making all these vids! You have helped me understand and better accept my own expression of masculinity this year.
Oh my gosh, thank you so much Dezzy! This is incredibly generous of you, and it means the world to know that I’ve helped. Merry Christmas to you, as well! I hope it’s a wonderful one. 💙💙💙
I was a young boy, still in elementary school, when I realized that I didn't want so many of the things pop culture told me masculinity was. The focus on violence, competition, dominance and sexual conquest alienated me (though I couldn't have understand it in those terms). The one thing I knew is I wanted to be a father and to raise my children well. To do that, I didn't need to be the strongest, or have the best job, or two dozen girlfriends. I just needed to find one woman who would love me and build a family with me. And I figured I'd just have to win her over with my personality, so I never closed myself off to emotional vulnerability. And that was as much as I thought about my gender and sexuality for the next 25 years. It wasn't until I was married and had kids that I asked myself "Now what?". Long story short, I now realize I'm asexual and agender. And the question of "what is masculinity?" makes less sense to me than ever.
It's so weird being forced into a gender or sexuality box when it ain't for you, isn't it? I'm really glad you discovered who you are and got away from all that nonsense.
I feel my parents just followed the societal expectation to have a kid, they didn't really parent but provided financially just fine. But I mostly raised myself, we didn't really hug that much or say "I Love You" but I never felt unloved until I got older and realized how lacking in self-worth I was, how much I projected the idea that people (specifically women) didn't want me to approach them. It took therapy and several iterations of myself to finally reach an understanding and comfort about my upbringing. I don't know how relatable that is but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has a fairly sterile home life in terms of emotions.
Well, let me add my voice. Thank you. For clearly defining patriarchy, that's very helpful to me. But more importantly, I realized that in some ways I still was raised male and that hurts for two very different reasons, but I thank you none the less for it. If absolutely nothing else, you saved me a lot of years of hurt. My male role models right now are mainly Jon and Alan from Cinema Therapy. They're so completely, and utterly comfortable in their masculinity and their friendship. They make comments about male actors being hot, they make jokes about being married to each other, Alan cries basically every episode (and sometimes Jon does too), etc. They model vulnerability, emotional intimacy, cooperation, in my experience not so much healthy conflict resolution but it is there, and prob other stuff too that I can't articulate. It doesn't hurt that I'm an aspiring therapist (trying to get back in school) and Jon is the kind of therapist I want to be (not his specialities, just his whole approach to the job). So yeah, I'm kind late to the party, but here's my contribution and my thanks!
Thanks, this video has helped me articulate something that's been on my mind a lot recently. I'm a younger guy, just transitioning into adulthood, and as someone left leaning I've always seen a celebration of feminism and general criticism of traditional masculinity. Rightly so of course, but as mentiond in this video I was never given anything else to attach to. Now lucky for me I've been working to craft myself into a better person (psychedelics are a hell of a drug kids) and I feel I've done a reasonable job; fuck knows I'm better than I was as an edgelord teen. But something that's bothered me for years now is ideas like "boys are irresponsible" or boys are "messy and their mum always cleaned up for them" and "boys are emotional immature and slaves to their sexual desires". These condescending jokes and attitudes towards men that soemtimes crop up, often online as well as in person. I had one female friend tell me that "men always come running back" on the topic of relationships. Now I think I see why people say this. They understand tradional masculinity as negative, but they themselves haven't seen a better alternative, and instead of helping men build a better masculinity, they rag on those lost men who have no new identity to cling to, taking the piss out of the idea they're lost and damaged by patriarchy. It makes you feel completely unappreciated, something reinforced by the condescending tones of these jokes; my old ideals clearly aren't working, but the feminists and left leaning people who say they want to help are laughing at me as much as everyone else. I think part of this is most people aren't as interested in studying politics/society. They absorb some ideas from more mainstream social discussions, but don't look too deeply. That's not a criticism, it's fair, I'm just a massive fucking nerd and so js anyone reading this lol. Still, the idea that men need a new ideal hasn't entered mainstream political/social discussion, and I think it really needs to. Anyway that's my little rant, if your reading this much love have and have a good day
It's a good rant. I really feel the tides are turning on this topic, and in the favourable direction. We gotta stay on it and press these talking points.
Another banger ! Thank you so much for making these kinds of videos. Sometimes it's easy to forget that people can be empathetic (especially when you look at what's posted on social media these days).
As a trans teen, I’ve got an interesting experience with accepting myself as a guy. It’s inevitable that I’d feel separate from other guys my age, but I don’t let it get to me because I still have positive male role models who help reinforce your message in this video. It’s okay to express joy, it’s okay to take care of yourself. You can do all of these things and still be masculine because positive masculinity is what you make of it, not what you’re told to be
Im an older fella. Just want to say that hearing a younger man say this let me breath a sigh of relief. You asked about role models. For some reason Im compelled to think of Thomas Sankara with your video.
I'm a ciswoman but I resonate with your videos so much, especially from the intersections of being Asian and being super emotionally repressed. I learned anger and hatred from the men of my life and deal with lot of loneliness in ways alot my female peers do not. Ive never belonged or had a group of friends and struggle w forming emotional connections. A couple of your videos made me really emotional and continue to move me. Thank you for being here!
What a fantastic video Finn, I immediately subscribed! I have had to unlearn toxic masculinity and relearn positive masculinity and empathy, took a while but I am at a way better place mentally and physically after freeing myself from the confines of patriarchy. Channels like yours are going to do a lot of good work in helping men to gain perspective and recover in a healthy way, keep doing the good work!
How TF did I miss this? "It is patriarchy versus everyone, including men." This is such a simple concept that makes so much sense-and could be seen as so threatening by so many people who truly want to better. "Just put the moisturizer on, boys," CRACKED ME UP because I had just done so before starting this video. And yeah, I guess we should get consent before we start trying to lift people over our heads. 😂Thanks for the video, Finn!
Thank you so much for this video. I'm incredibly grateful that the people in my life don't deny men physical affection, but even I can see that they absolutely deny them emotional support otherwise. You also challenged and brought up some ideas I hadn't considered, especially the way patriarchy/society treats men as expendable. I had thought of the general concept as it relates to working people vs capital owners, but I neglected to consider how it relates to gender in general societal relations. What you're doing here is incredibly important, and I can't wait to see what comes next. So from a woman who often doesn't know how to talk to men about the patriarchy (and sometimes falls to patriarchal ideas myself), truly thank you so much.
Finn, your videos are as well-researched and clearly written as your voice is soothening. I feel I could listen to you talk about complex subjects for hours, finish more relaxed than I started, and still remember much of what you said. Talk about OP, bro...
Anecdotal story about my cousin getting policed by a gal he was seeing when he deviated from gender norms: so he and I are both military. I went Army he went Navy SOF. I’m used to navigating and blurring gender binary because I’m a cis lesbian in a very masculine profession. I think fucking with gender expectations is fun. But last time we hung out I encouraged him to start a skin care routine. He was totally open to it ( he accidentally used an ex’s body scrub once and it changed his life), but expressed anxiety at what others would say. I told him “just tell them your lesbian cousin bullied you into it”. Fast forward a few months later and he’s seeing this other sailor. At some point she peeps his (Inisfree brand - literally the most neutral labeled shit that is often marketed to men) skincare and she flips. She demands A) who’s the side chick your fucking and/or B) tell me if you’re gay right now. He used the line I gave him and she totally changed tunes and burst out laughing As hilarious as that is and relieving that that line worked. It didn’t matter that he was SOF, owned tons of guns, is a sky diving instructor, and scubas and surfs. He did one small thing and someone would sooner believe he was a cheater or a different sexuality than that he liked taking care of his skin. No wonder many guys avoid even the blandest of activities or products that are not considered hypermasculine And fellas, if you need a scapegoat to save face in your journey to deconstructing masculinity, just say your lesbian cousin bullied you into trying the “girly” thing. If you don’t have one, I’m your cousin now
Oh my god, that poor guy... Women are definitely big enforcers of harmful stereotypes, too, and it sounds like this particular gal has some things she needs to work on. I hope she does just that, or that he finds someone who is more understanding and supports him breaking stereotypes (and compliments his undoubtedly lovely complexion.)
Here's a metric that might be useful and easier for younger people to measure: What age did you know longer feel welcome in your parent's bed after a bad dream or when you just needed some comfort? I wonder if that is different between expressed genders...
So, so so fantastic. I'm just now stumbling on your channel and if your other content is anything like this, I'm super excited to dive in. Great to meet ya Mr. Fox.
Constable Benton Fraser from Due South was my role model growing up. He had all these amazing skills and was extremely competent and dependable. He was also extremely honest and compassionate to a level that was played for laughs as it was contrasted against a more jaded and selfish world.
Every time I hear about positive masculinity I come to the conclusion 'Isn't just positive masculinity/femininity being a good person?' Thanks for the video! Found out about you from Elliot Sang's livestream and fell in love with your vibe
Kinda but I don’t think this specific video is about trying to teach being a good person, but trying to teach better health. There has been an implication that masculinity is toxic or evil, or that it’s about hating women, or that positive masculinity is this new thing that’ll teach men to be actually good people. In other discussions a lot of the time positive masculinity boils either to being a good person, or just the same gender roles at the benefit of women, like always be, nice and protective to women, always leading people, etc (which isn’t bad but isn’t good either to always expected to protect women to the point of dying or expected to always know what to do). However this video about positive masculinity at least somewhat cares for men more than “No! men should be this! Men should be that!” (At least until part 2 where we now should always make sure our strength is about protecting people and making others always feel safe) It at least actually cares about the health of men, not trying to make men beneficial for others. Heck most people talking about positive masculiny / toxic masculinity would probably look at a man not opening up, not taking care of themselves due to him being depressed, and the first thing that comes into their mind is accusing the reasoning for his situation being misogyny, but this video at least gives a different explanation then misognry. Seriously, blaming every issue that men face on men hating women feels belittling. Idk maybe I’m just rambling.
You are the kind of creator young boys need to watch but bc you’re not yelling and insulting other ppl or treating others like objects a lot of them won’t even find this content 😔
Glad Caelan Conrad directed me here. I can't honestly say I learned much new from this video, but it was definitely well researched and made and made me interested to see what else you've produced and will produce.
I'm a trans woman and this is kinda weird for me to watch, but I think my relationship with masculinity needs to change. I don't want to associate masculinity with something bad. Just because it's not for me doesn't mean I should reject it outright as bad. This has been really lingering on my mind because I'm attracted to men and I don't want my personal experiences with forced masculinity to be put on them. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I appreciate seeing examples of positive masculinity so I can recognize the good from the bad and not have it all be mushed together. I think it's nice to have examples masculinity that aren't "pretransition me" or insecure people. I also want to help people despite my solution to my problems with masculinity being flipping to the other side. Most men won't be helped by femininity.
i don't know how many men are ready for this, but i really think a lot of men could learn so much from queer masculinity re: learning how to repurpose masculinity in positive and prosocial.ways. this is a bit of a blanket statement and not true for every individual masculine queer person, but as a butch lesbian i find so much inspiration in other butches and in transmascs and masc nonbinary people, since we've often had to examine our masculinity that much harder in relation to our gender. i know i've spent hours and hours thinking about my own lesbian masculinity :') about what aspects of masculinity speak to me, which ones alienate me, and which ones i actively refuse to perpetuate obviously my experience as a masc lesbian isn't likely to be the same as that of a cis or trans man, nor would out masculinity be the same, but we can and should look to each other for examples of what a more prosocial masculinity can and should look like
Hard agree on this. Talking to cis men as a trans man has always led to really interesting, meaningful conversations about masculinity--and this is especially true when butch women and masc non-binary people are involved, too.
I was really impacted by what you said about being comforted and when we stopped being able to receive comfort as men. I don’t blame anyone in particular for this, but I remember multiple times as a kid having to isolate myself in shame when I felt like crying in front of other people. I learned to self-soothe, which has helped me navigate a world run on capitalism, but I have seen my default of self-soothing get in the way of intimacy with my wife and close friends. Men if you are reading this I challenge you to let someone you love and trust comfort you. I think we have come past the “real men don’t cry myth” but I would challenge you to take the vulnerable step of trusting someone to be with you in your pain.
My first time listening and I have to thank you for taking on this topic. Your points are totally on point. Because so many positive aspects of masculinity (being leaders, protectors, providers, and even fathers) are longer exclusive to heterosexual males, there has been a fearful and angry pushback (from some men and amazingly even some women ) to make masculinity be defined by either excessive aggression (bullying, hostility, violent behavior) or misogyny and sexual manipulation of women/other genders. I hope your courage will bring our culture to a healthier place for everyone. Thank you:)
The patriarchy is so insidious. I have 2 young sons, and we talk about concepts of gender and masculinity, creating your own path, courage as being scared and doing it anyway all the time. I encourage play on both sides of the gender spectrum, We live in an amazingly accepting community, and I homeschool my kids, so they don't even get the bullying. And yet, even though one likes to wear a dress at home sometimes, he won't wear it outside anymore.
Very interesting, thank you for being someone who put in question toxic patterns of traditionnal society. I'm a male and I grew up with a father who was naturally extremely muscular without lifting weights (which is very rare). He was more of an alpha male type (with the toxic characteristics associated with this type of "profile"). He was distant, always in his corner, doing manual work (which gives me the impression today that mainstream society conveys this message: "to be a man, you absolutely have to be manual, handyman, etc.") . My mother, for her part, has always had a sort of fascination and attraction for extremely muscular male physiques. Further more, I grew up in the 90's and 2000's, where the industry of bodybuilding and fitness have had an enormous influence on society. Video games, movies, toys... Every male character (or almost) was suppose to be a leader, very muscular and so on... All these factors have contributed to the fact that today, I still try to live in harmony with my body (which is rather naturally slender and very thin), wich is not that easy. I stopped going to gyms (very toxic places) years ago and that is one the best decision I made in my life. So many men are sick because of this enormous pressure of the patriarchy.
I don't use almost any cosmetics not because I fear being "feminine", it's just that I regard almost all of them as the usual consumer scam bs and I find that my body is pretty amazing at skin care especially since "taking care" of it more: breaking the cycle of addiction; being a gardener, being in nature; doing a little daily sports; loving life. I think I lived positive masculinity pretty good before even learning about it, out of a gut feeling 😄 Especially the vulnerability breaking this patriarchal concept of masculinity speaks to my experience and I've thought about often long before learning this was a whole thing - also I loved how perfectly analagous this "tiny minority the game is rigged towards making the vast majority fight over the crumbs they leave behind" is to capitalism which enables all of these cultural cancers in the first place as much as they complement each other!
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I am a man. I'm 48 years old. I spent years of my life feeling worthless because I couldn't live up to the patriarchal ideal. Once I finally escaped my toxic marriage, I found myself rejecting the ideal altogether. It's been many years, and I'm still deconstructing my conditioning. It's nice to hear someone speak so eloquently and succinctly on the subject. Thank you, Jesse Gender, for recommending this video.
I also came here from Jesse's recommendation. What a great find!
Same here, I've already seen Finntastic fox as a special guest in some of Jessie's videos, but his channel is amazing
we love this freedom for you!!! none of us are free until all of us are free. that includes men!!!!! I wish nothing more than for you to keep healing and finding your own peace on your own terms ☺️
I’m here from Caelan Conrad!
the way I like to put it is that Patriarchy is not a society organised for the benefit of men, but a society organised for the benefit of Patriarchs
This is a perfect description.
You exemplify a form of radical empathy that I think is sorely needed in discussions like this.
I didn't feel any empathy here it's more like an uneducated demonization filtered through a lens of soy.
Just when I thought I saw enough on the masculinity discourse 😮💨 you been upgrading with every video bro 💜 and that sponsor transition 👌🏾
Thank you, my friend. 💙 And I've been lucky to have so many insightful people to talk to on these topics.
Camaraderie over competition.
Resilient passion over cold detachment.
Building over destroying.
Reason over rage.
Mega based
I absolutely love this.
ok but can i keep the cold detachment? Resilient passion is fucking hard tbh
@@painunending4610 never said that maintaining good mental health was easy.
Like with physical health, you still need to put the work in. You need something to replace cold detachment because while that's often the path of least resistance, it's also poison (I say from abundant personal experience).
Even if it comes from trauma and/or depression, you've gotta fight that.
@@dynamicworlds1 cold detachment works well for me. It comes naturally to me and I've gotten this far in life with it with all the amenities like education, friends and a job and whatever. I'm always gonna try the path of least resistance because it's easy. Why would I want to make my life harder than it already is lol?
Why would I want to work for something that's hard to achieve naturally? I'd much rather just be myself and love that person
As a parent of 3 young boys, this is *such* a valuable & important video. I really thank you for making this.
💙
as a trans man, i have noticed within my own community and also within myself a very strong lean towards unhealthy masculinity as a way to feel less feminine. a lot of the time when a trans man is still in the denial stage of their transition, especially if that denial stage is happening at an earlier stage such as in middle or high school; they will start to fall into everything theyve seen the men around them pressuring eachother to be, and will end up suffocating themselves and their opportunity for happiness along the way.
for me, my parents never pressured me or my brother to fit into traditional masculinity. i do however live deep in the bible belt and had a majority cis male friendgroup during my denial stage, which encouraged those awful ideas and behaviors around masculinity as a way to make the “girl” in their friendgroup more acceptable and less like an accessory.
good education on what a man does NOT have to be (the traits of unhealthy masculinity) is vital for EVERYONE, including cis women who will unknowingly push men more into the rabbithole if they aren’t aware enough, and “cis women” who will later come out as trans men or nonbinary people who may be influenced by unhealthy masculinity otherwise.
edit: after checking out your profile i see you are also trans!! so glad to see other trans masc people making content about the unhealthy points of masculinity. lots of people don’t believe it effects our communities, but god take one surface level look and the online discourse and it becomes unbelievably obvious.
Couldn't agree more that everyone needs that education. And I very much relate to the experience you described--I was surrounded by positive masculinity at home, but still internalized so much crap. I see my "not like other girls" phase as very much my trans man toxic masculinity struggle.
As a masc leaning enby, I definitely went through a "not like other girls" phase as an attempt to impress a lot of the masculine figures in my life I looked up to and fit in with my guy friends. I would be curious to see stats on how common it is among a trans masc demographic to go through something like that, because from what I've seen it feels like a very common experience.
I'm a cis guy in my early 20s, never seen myself as all that traditionally masculine or feminine really and still trying to figure out where I fit with all that. If nothing else, thank you for the validation that being emotional around others isn't weakness and that refusing to be part of the domination and intimidation side of masculinity is not something to ridicule.
A lot of us are trying to figure out where we fit in, you definitely aren’t the only one brother. You seem like a really good guy bro.
Re: is there a point at which you noticed people stopped hugging you, etc: Yes.
I was a friendly, affectionate kid, which people found charming until I moved to Mississippi at 5. There, I got bullied by both my peers and the employees at my daycare. It didn't start with my family until around the time I turned 7; I still remember the shock I felt the first time my dad recoiled from a hug. The older I got, the more often I got disapproving/disgusted looks from people for wanting hugs, crying (or any expression of emotion beside joy or anger), or asking for help. When I tried to change, in order to stop the bullying I was experiencing from all sides, that attempt to fit into the mold people seemed to expect from me led me down the path of the bully myself.
Luckily, a combination of influences helped me recognize what was happening and at least stop actively hurting the people around me around age 11, but unfortunately, that was too late to prevent the trauma to the free people I'd been bullying (like my little sister, who probably still deals with my hand-me-down trauma today).
And my eventual adoption of feminist thought was in response to a near-death experience, where I was victimized for aspects of masculinity that were usually part of the privilege. I don't feel like rehashing all the details right now, but the short story is that I was assumed to be guilty of domestic violence because the person (my stepmother) who actually did violence (to me) played into male stereotypes to get the police to come arrest me at gunpoint. And even though I was innocent, I realized that the only reason this was happening was because in most cases it probably would've been true. At least growing up, men in that area would casually joke about doing violence to women, and even at 14, I knew a lot of domestic abuse survivors. Enough to know that it was more common than anyone would admit, and usually perpetrated by men (though, with the way that even young boys are dismissed when they allege abuse, it may not be quite as skewed as data would currently suggest). It's a downside/backlash of male hegemony that I was able to recognize in that situation.
For me it was me who did it. I used to hug my dad goodnight every single night. As a teenager I suddenly stopped because I didn't want him to smell weed or booze on me or find it odd if i only avoided him at the certain times i had those smells upon me. After that he always kind of held back from hugs. He was the only person I really ever hugged until adulthood where I now hug a lot of my friends a lot of the time.
Holy shit, thank you for sharing this and being willing to revisit those memories. It takes a lot of strength and self-awareness to take something painful (and terrifying) like that and turn it into something positive. I really hope you've been finding more support and connection since.
i also grew up in mississippi, and i must say, sad as it is that is an extremely common situation for men in the state. i have trans femme friends who have gone through horrible abuse and still feel pressured by masculinity to either keep quiet or brush it off because society still sees them as men, and they feel that expressing that pain will out them against their will. i also know cis men who came out to me as gay (me being the only openly queer person they knew of) and then later publicly revoked it and shamed me for “tricking them” into believing they were queer because they were pressured by authority figures and peers to think that they as a man have no right to their own autonomy of love and emotion. its really sad. i am so sorry you had to deal with that, but i am glad you were able to recognize what was happening and hopefully find a way to overcome it (to the best of your ability, it’s extremely difficult even in the best circumstances)
I'm sorry that you stopped being hugged. Do your friends hug you now? I personally avoid hugs from my family by choice, for my own reasons, but hugs from friends are great.
I would also like to say it's terrible when men aren't believed, yes because it's more likely for men to perpetrate but I still think victims should be believed, including men. I've had to argue with men that, no, being R-worded by a woman isn't a dream come true for any (straight) man.
I'd like to add that there's no way to say how skewed the data is. In this modern age where social media tends to stand by victims and post Me Too there tends to be this idea that women are believed far more often than men, and while women are more likely to be believed, they don't believe us either. I promise you. It's, unfortunately more of a not caring about victims in general thing, more than anything else.
Speaking from experience, I've been abused by men in front of people post-Me-Too and nothing was done, no one cared. I know many women who have, I am very close with a woman I've been friends with since high school who dated a much larger abusive man who'd assault her in front of people, yet it was a rumour that she would overreact and be dramatic cause she'd freak out and panic if he ever seemed even slightly angry at her. I know very successful men who've assaulted multiple women, myself included, in public. I have seen and been on the recieving end of treated like a villain for not liking a charismatic and well-liked-by-others abuser. I've yelled at men for not listening to other men and I got written off as crazy. Similar to the concept of "eff the patriarchy it doesn't care about any of us (man or woman)". Unfortunately when it comes to these things they don't care about any of us here as victims too, man or woman.
This is not to minimize what you went through, that sounds horrible and even as a woman I've been in similar positions from my own abusive mum claiming I abused her (refer above to when I said I don't hug family by choice). I couldn't imagine having a gun pulled on you like that, that sounds TERRIFYING. I'm so sorry. Hopefully you're much safer now?
Really sorry to hear your story. I am surprised that your experiences led you to feminism. I don't know of any significant feminist organisation that doesn't gender domestic abuse as being solely about female victims (even though about a third of victims are male) ignoring the suffering that male victims go through and campaign for funding solely for women's charities. Feminism (and the concept of the patriarchy) is ultimately based on the premise that 'men have the power and women are victims'.
It's for reasons such as this that I describe myself as an egalitarian rather than a feminist. Victims of domestic abuse (and many other situations) can be male, female or non-binary.
Well-said, dude! Also hell yeah retinol. I'm on a maintenance dose of accutane to keep the acne at bay and wowza my skin is incredible for a 30 year old bahaha.
Seriously one of the coolest things about being trans imo is the explicit awareness of gendered expectations. Cis guys were essentially "groomed" into toxic masculinity from birth, where as a trans guy I get to take a step back and go "Ya know, what? Skin care and nail polish are bomb. I enjoy being a silly little guy who supports my friends and talks about my feelings." And I get to consciously create the guy I want to be, rather than just fitting a mold like cis people are pressured to do.
Don't get me wrong, trans people feel immense pressure to conform to gender expectations as well, but my experiences and my insight gave me the strength to just say "fuck it".
Also holy hell dude I absolutely internalized male expendability for a hot minute and it fucked with my mental health big time. It's something I don't think most cis men are even aware of. I was able to recognize it as a problem ONLY because it was new and unfamiliar.
@@transcatdad Right?! It's such an insidious thing.
I was about to say the same thing but you worded it so much better than i could have ever done, As a trans man so often find myself falling into stereotypical “masculine” behaviour around other i don’t know and it makes me feel awful. Because I don’t want people to be intimidated by my masculinity but to see it as a protective and caring force.
And realizing this makes me able to go “Oh! I can be masculine in any way i want to be while being a sweet, and a protective force around those i care about
When I was in second grade, my teacher told my parents that I was hugging my friend too much in class. They told me she was being ridiculous.
In retrospect I’m super grateful to my parents, and I’m now widely regarded as the best hugger of the family. 😁
She was being ridiculous, hugging is great, you’re parents are smart🫂
I think trans people in general are in some of the best positions possible to critique and reform gender as both an institution and as a embodied identity. I've learned more about positive masculinity and men's issues as a whole from trans guys' recounts of their experiences than from any other source. When you've only ever been socialized one way, it can be like having blinders on to things that are obvious to people socialized differently. Videos like this are absolutely integral to me being able to effectively interrogate my relationship to my experiences with male socialization as an AMAB person.
I think an unintended but really positive effect of videos like these is they can really help out transfems like me! A significant reason I delayed transition was because I wasn't able to determine the difference between hating living as a man or hating internalized patriarchal masculinity and the ways it prevented me from fostering genuine emotional connections with others. In a cruel twist of fate, traditional male socialization in my boyhood stunted my emotional growth so bad that I couldn't identify a single desire I had for myself... which only made the questioning phase harder. After I started to learn what positive masculinity could look like and started trying to embody it myself, I realized manhood wasn't for me! But it took resources like this to even begin discovering a more authentic form of self-expression. For that, I'll always be greatful.
Wow, that's really insightful and cool how it parallels my experience with coming to terms with being a transmasc nonbinary person (so much questioning over whether or not I was nonbinary or just internalizing and resenting patriarchy).
@@blueoutrun Same here as a (somewhat genderfluid) trans man! It was only when I deconstructed toxic standards for women and got to the point of self-love that it became apparent womanhood in general just didn't 'fit' or feel natural at all.
Not a man, but I stumbled upon your video because Jessie Gender reposted it. Just want to say this is so beautifully put, and that it makes me so happy to see this kind of content.
As someone who has always had friends that “dunk on men” as a joke - both male and female - I always have felt uncomfortable with that sort of humor. The “men are dumb” or “mediocre by default” or “easily replaceable” has always irked me because it perpetuated this patriarchal pyramid of expectations.
Like, recently, with this “female gaze” stuff on TikTok. Ive been feeling so uncomfortable about it because I dont even think there IS a female gaze. It is weird to gender preferences and claim them as universal, and then say men are consistently too stupid or one track minded to even understand it. Its so… condescending. I can see how it is damaging to someones psyche.
I always thought if I were a man, Id feel expendable because of it.
And thats the thing with people like Tate or Jordan Peterson: they appreciate “masculine traits” by saying things like “men have always had to protect and serve” and “men have built everything, have gone to war for their families”, which is… objectively true, even if they are gendered obligations. It makes young impressionable men finally feel appreciated; like they have something good to offer the world.
And that makes me feel so sad. I wish society would appreciate men and masculinity more before they have even done any “heroic” deeds. Masculinity is needed just as much as femininity. It is a beautiful thing.
Yeah it's disgusting how jp and Tate (and others) prey upon these people that feel rejected by society. I remember back in 2014ish when this first started taking off (mainstreamy at least) and I had friends who were like "you need to checkout this jp guy. He's changed my life" and based solely on their description I immediately thought of him as a cult leader and was saddened. I did look into him later on and it just confirmed my thoughts about him using preacher tactics in a semi-scientific way that played upon this groups fears and feelings of inadequacy.
The whole thing just makes me sad.
That feeling of being 'expendable' is very accurate in my experience and I've seen a lot of other guys say the same
@@GameTimeWhy Definitely. It’s scary to me how they commoditize human worth as if it’s something that triumphs empathy entirely. Because, of course, everyone sees a woman’s worth by her beauty and who shes slept with, and everyone sees a man’s worth by how much money he makes and how much he can fight. T_T. And thats just how it is, apparently. Dehumanizing.
@@painunending4610 I am so sorry about that, that’s so sad. I have a younger brother who I love to death. I would do anything for him to feel like he is not an expendable pawn for anyone and that he does not need to carry the burden of being a breadwinner. You are not a role to play. You’re a human!!
Hope you believe that!!! Because youre not expendable!!!!!!!!
It's not, no.
This is only barely related, but this talk of 'dominance' reminds me of when I was a kid and I thought that "nice guys finish last" meant "in order to be a good person, you should lose sometimes".
I love that interpretation so much, is it okay if I share that at some point? I'd like to credit you, if so.
Its more a cost that can happen due goig against the grain. I do think you win probably as much as you loose. Bt there is a cost of ot playing by forced rule.
Doesnt mwea you shouldnt try to win well. Besides winning is relative.
One of my defining role models was Jean Luc Picard. I don't recall him ever seeking to dominate through force, but always trying to understand and learn. He still has the toxic trait of emotional distance which took me a long time to unlearn, but the way his character celebrated intelligence, wisdom, and and competence was formative for me.
There are so many healthy (and unhealthy) masculinity themes to explore in Star Trek, I absolutely love it. I love how Riker was very much the warmth to Picard's more chilly side.
He's a great example! I was going to mention Doctor Who (for me, from the late 70s and 80s, Tom Baker into Peter Davison). I mean, I was always the smart, nerdy kid at school, so I was never "competing" in the same way as maybe, sporty boys - but he was an example of a hero that used intelligence and science to solve his problems rather than brute strength and violence.
@@paulhammond6978 The Doctor in general has been a wonderful example of positive masculinity. Never cruel or cowardly. Never give up, never give in. And if you ever are, always make amends.
Spock?! or worf even. I really like worf working on his bias and might be because worf deconstructs the awful klingon things while embracing the best and while trying to fit in and figuring everything out with growing pains. But he does without hesitation, figuring that out, he is most of the time also pretty positive masculine knowing when toliste toothers and not give ito the easy thing, and break the expectation for omething bettr
as is spock and him connecting despite difficulties and still eing th cool guy while being emotioal and find himself.
But worf probably more, worf is vunny as wll ut he is a pretty good male rolemodel too, especiall because his constant struggle to figur that stuff out, wats good, what should get rid of and openin up, and all that thrown at him. Especially the klingon ideals.
Just recently my friend told me that their spouse of 1 year and partner of nearly a decade were getting divorced. I'm not their closest friend, and they have closer friends and family that I am sure are giving them close and intimate emotional support, but right after that conversation I was mortified by the degree to which I feel like I failed to proactively comfort them and try and get them to talk to me about it. Maybe they didn't want to open up to me, but I could have done a lot more to make it clear that I was available for them if they did.
And I'm someone who makes a constant conscious effort to go against my learned toxic-masculine instincts. Just goes to show how deep this stuff runs.
Depending on the specific circumstances I don't think there'd be anything wrong with following up on that conversation to offer the support you would like to have given :)
It does run deep, and it makes you feel almost frozen in those instances. I agree with what insertcreativenamehere7970 said, though, it's not too late to reach out and let them know you're there for support if they need it (though I understand feeling awkward if a chunk of time has passed.)
@@FinntasticMrFox yeah I did message them like an hour later saying I was available if they wanted to talk about it more, and I was glad I did.
There's a lot of pushback against text communication when it comes to emotional and personal things, but it can be a realllly unobtrusive way to offer support to someone who maybe isn't in the mood to hash it all out with you at the moment. Especially for ND people.
I really loved this video ! I'm a woman but it really gave me the tools to discuss patriarchy with my friends and my boyfriend. The fact that it's not women against patriarchy but everyone against it is something I always struggled to explain to people. This video explained it really well
This shit is far more empowering than the whole "alpha influencer" trend could ever hope to be.
High key needed this video. I'm finally going to therapy consistently and found that the more I strive to be the best version of myself, the more I distance myself from my masculinity. What I was taught of "being a man" by society and my family really only caused me to harm myself and others in life. I've been questioning my gender a lot lately because of that and trying to find some positive masculinity that I feel like defines me. TBH I think I'm just non-binary and working on finding the courage to express myself how I want to.
I really hope you find it, and at the pace that is most comfortable and fulfilling to you. 💙
@@FinntasticMrFox thanks :)
This is such a wholesome comment. Wish you the best of luck on your journey and Im glad you have therapy and are working on yourself. Im an AFAB person but I am also questioning my gender and I know exactly how you feel about expression. Solidarity, sibling! Stay strong!
@@janana7997 thank you 🥰 I hope you also figure out what best defines you, and I really really hope that you have a community of people who will celebrate the truest version of you!
I'm AFAB nonbinary and that's relatable. I really recommend the therapy book "You and Your Gender Identity" by Dara Hoffman-Fox to work through it (even if it turns out that you're cisgender). Anyway, I find it really nice that for nonbinary folks that no matter what gender we were assigned, we all have very relatable experiences and feelings to navigate about our AGAB.
Always nice to see other dudes calling out the patriarchy. We need more of it.
Holy cow, this was so good. Hearing you explain the double standard of patriarchy as why "men don't think they are worth taking care of" really, really made everything sink in for me. Thank you for making something so profoundly cool and awesome.
Thanks, Maddie!
This is another great video! Thank you! I liked your point about separating patriarchy from men. I think you're right that a lot of guys get defensive because they hear "patriarchy" and think men are being singled out as villains when, really, everyone participates in the system. In a way, patriarchy is like a game where everyone plays, but there can only be one winner. It guarantees that the winner will be a man (and a cishet, able, white one) but every other man will be a loser, just like women and nonbinary people. And, like you suggest, the guy who wins will be despised. So why are we playing this game in the first place? It sucks.
Something to remember is 'patriarchy' roughly means 'rule of the *fathers* ', not 'rule of men'. It is only a few elites who get to enjoy the benefits of the hierarchy
@@painunending4610 This is actually a point that's been nagging at me for awhile as I've come to accept what most progressives yters mean when they say "patriarchy". In the same vein of Finn moving away from the term toxic masculinity, as he deems it a little outdated, and confrontational, I often wrestle internally with the notion of whether patriarchy is truly the term we need to use to describe this societal system. Obviously Bell Hooks thought so, and I see a lot of progressives insist we must use patriarchy as it's the only accurate word to describe this flawed system. Still, as you pointed out, and maybe this is more the symptom of capitalism, it seems like this system is more about propping up elites, I doubt the people getting the most out of this give a damn about fathers being head of their households so long as the peasants keep working and they remain on top.
From my perspective, I and others get defensive because that’s how people who talk about patriarchy usually define it in an accusatory tone towards us men, as a system that all men created to oppress women, as a system that men are responsible for all struggles, and are all privlaged, no matter if he has none and his life is garbage, and must fix it themselves. Then when you even so much as discuss an issue that a man or men face, people with this belief then turn to blame men at the fault of their own issues because we all apparently built the patriarchy. It’s due to how others villify men or soley focus on men as a fault when defining patriarchy that makes men be so defensive when the word comes up, including me.
I truely love the contents about masculinity that you make. Keep on with the good work!
I'm a pansexual guy, 22 years old. I'm nice to everyone I meet. I just believe that you should be nice to others and treat everyone with respect.
I am transfemminine and this helped me understand my child self better.
Thanks.
Im not your target audience but this is so fascinating. I have literally never thought about some of the things mentioned in the video in my entire life. Thanks!
Kazama Kiryu from the Yakuza series has been a model of positive masculinity since I started playing the games. Obviously, the constraints of the game's medium see him getting in a lot of unnecessary fights, but his interactions in the majority of substories and the cabaret club side game reveal a thoughtful, caring man who wants to overcome the stony-faced stoicism that years of trauma and hardship have given him. At his very core, Kiryu is a protector who wants to leave a better world than the one he was raised in, and I stan
This is a great video! I've felt a desire for left leaning content creators to not only deconstruct harmful ideas, but also construct (optional) positive frameworks for concepts like masculinity. Personally, I find it a lot easier to understand and change when I can have goals and values to look towards, instead of negative examples to avoid. You are an amazing creator and I loved the empathetic perspective from which you approached this topic!
"When you are unified by emptiness, all you get is more nothing" is such a succinct and powerful summary of such a massive problem. Damn.
This focus on the protective aspect of strength actually reminds me of an idea by Tadeusz Kotarbiński. His life's works included building a system of secular ethics, independent of religious traditions. He postulated that its cornerstone should be the attitude of a "dependable caregiver/guardian". Mind you, his ethical system wasn't intended for men only, but he was male, so perhaps this colored his perspective. Also, looking at his biography, he was a shining example of what we would today call positive masculinity.
BTW: thank you for the great video, and thanks to Jesse Gender for recommending it.
I like how you touched upon benevolent sexism and how that's not a good thing either! I think a lot of people can warp into benevolent sexists in an effort to be more positive but they end up just reinforcing the women are weak stereotype. I like the "are you a safe person to be around" being a part of strength!!!! This is so wonderful!
I see some people saying that men should be better by returning to old school chivalry. WTF? Like when we used to treat women like children?
Marketers: Men don't do self-care? What if we told them women think it's sexy? Then they could still uphold the patriarchy AND give us money!
OMG why am i getting so many adverts for soap that basically start with 'here's why girls dont like you'? Like seriously do you think im gonna fall for that? Reminding me that girls dont like me does NOT make you want to buy your product lmao
I guess its better than capitalism just targeting women? Equality in oppression. yay
“Men both real and fictional who exemplify positive masculinity” it’s ok we both know you mean most of the characters from Lord of the Rings. In all seriousness though, this is a really well done video.
Been scrolling down looking for this comment 🤣
I fell into some aspects of toxic masculinity in my first year of transitioning. I don't think I was mean to anyone else (I hope not), but I did think I had to follow certain rules to prove that I'm a man. How I dress, my posture, my speech patterns, etc. I eventually realized that this wasn't proving my masculinity, it was just play-acting. So I went back to just doing how I do naturally. Which, oddly enough, are mostly traits that I get from my father. Even when I was a little kid I was told constantly, "You are just like your dad."
So I was masculine the entire time. It's just that my principal model of masculinity, my father, is feisty drama queen who loves ABBA and showtunes.
Oh this is SUCH a good video! Woof the question about if you ever noticed a point when people stopped hugging/asking how you were hit me like a brick lol. I watched it shift over the first few months of T and it still breaks my heart. For a long time I felt apologetic when interacting with women because of how I was suddenly being treated compared to before, like I was doing something wrong by being a man instead of a woman and I felt bad about it. I've worked through that now, but mannn I still miss being treated like I have emotional depth. Some people do, but others seem to assume I have the range of a sponge.
It’s really bizarre, isn’t it? The contrast of one to the other makes it so much more obvious.
Also if you want a positive example of strength I recommend “the body improvement club” from mob psycho 100. Yes they are gym bros but they use strength to protect and not harm. And are super encouraging! When the scrawny kid joins they don’t laugh at his cardio. They say “you lasted 5 minutes! That’s twice than your last run great job!”
That sounds right up my alley, thank you for the recommendation!
Phil (That Dang Dad) sent me this way. I'm glad I followed the plug. Subscribed. Looking forward to more of your insights.
P.S. re 17:24 - I've definitely had certain friends who ask me to pick them up when I hug them. They delight in it, and I delight in their joy at it. Good times. :)
Love that! 💙
I’ve been looking for something like this. I was never really raised on toxic masculinity, but I still ended up developing the social/emotional isolation. It’s something I’m still working on and I’ve been getting help.
I can trace the degradation of my social skills as I got older and all of it started to get to me me. I had a ton of friends in preschool, A solid group of 4 in middle school, and 1 by the time I graduated high school. I thought college would be a new start for me but it wasn’t. I didn’t make any friends my first year in college because I had forgotten how.
I’m doing much better now, but I still think about how hard it was to make friends. Every connection I made fell through because I had been taught never to open up to people. I used to enjoy crying and the emotional catharsis it provided, but I can’t anymore.
I’m lucky that I never went down the toxic masculinity pipeline like you described. Honestly I think it was only my brother and my best friend who kept me sane and out of that pit. I also just hated the misogynists too much to join them.
You are completely right about negative concepts of masculinity not being replaced with anything. For the longest time I’ve been rejecting all of those toxic mindsets but I didn’t have anything to replace it with. Toxicity and masculinity were inextricably linked while I was growing up. It was the same for my brother. He’s a trans man and he’s told me in the past that he was reluctant to identify as a man because of the belief that men are toxic.
I actually thought that I might be nonbinary for the longest time because I didn’t identify with traditional masculinity. I’m still working out how to be a man outside of traditional gender roles, but I’m getting there.
I completely agree with your strength = protection rather than violence. (without being condescending/benevolently misogynist). The thing that makes me feel the best about myself is that other people feel safe around me. It’s something I want to be a core of who I am, so I might as well put it front and center in whatever my masculinity ends up looking like.
Thank you so much for this, really.
And thank *you* for this wonderful comment. It's heartbreaking how often I hear people describe that experience, of suddenly finding it hard to make friends, or experiencing isolation. I've also heard from a great many trans men that they experienced the same thing your brother did, a reluctance (sometimes even fear) to acknowledge themselves as men.
I'm really glad to hear you've been getting help, that alone is a huge stride, and I'm happy to know that the process of building that healthy archetype is working for you. It's not easy work, but damn if it isn't fulfilling. 💙
Kinda awkward after venting all that in a TH-cam comment, but the reason I never really connected with my masculinity is because I’m a trans woman. Oops
I've never been a very macho man, and that has never bothered me. However, it has been very isolating to me throughout my life. Thank you for talking about this
Great video :) when you were discussing the paradox of patriarchy, I was like, "wow this sounds a lot like capitalism."
YUP. Not all patriarchal societies are capitalist, but damn if capitalism doesn't rely on patriarchal building blocks.
Greatful for you and your content; we need more men with your experiences and thoughtfulness at the forefront!
Thank you so much!
Chiming in with some love for the algorithm! Will be watching the video this weekend!
Thanks, Wren!
Thank you mr fox!!!
I will dazzle the skin care haters with my complexion!! 😂
Skin, hair, and nails on point. 😌
This makes me think of what I read/heard about Peter Cullen's role as Optimus Prime. Cullen's brother was a military officer who served in Vietnam and Cullen asked him for advice on how to play the role of this leader character. His brother said "Don't be afraid to make him care about his team members."
Sent here by Jessie Gender. I’m glad she highlighted you.
A year too late haha!
But I think Gomez Addams (the original one played by John Astin) from the Addams family is a perfect example of positive masculinity. He embodies confidence, doesn't seem to mind that his household is pretty much a matriarchy (Morticia is the head of the household), is involved with his kids, doesn't seem to care about money or status, is close with his family and supportive of them, and is always willing to help out others in need. You gotta watch that show man!
Edit: oh he also normalised men using eyeliners lol
Hey, this is exactly the video I was looking for.
I spent years struggling with this and just weeks before, I reached the conclusion that patriarchy itself was hurting me. Not, other men, but the system. And you put it beautifully.
Thanks a ton for this video. This was much needed.
I love when the TH-cam algorithm actually shows me content and creators I actually want to see.
Just stumbled on this video by chance. I value the evidence based approach in tandem with offering actual solutions and a path forward. 10/10
Merry Christmas Mister Fox! Thank you for making all these vids! You have helped me understand and better accept my own expression of masculinity this year.
Oh my gosh, thank you so much Dezzy! This is incredibly generous of you, and it means the world to know that I’ve helped. Merry Christmas to you, as well! I hope it’s a wonderful one. 💙💙💙
I was a young boy, still in elementary school, when I realized that I didn't want so many of the things pop culture told me masculinity was. The focus on violence, competition, dominance and sexual conquest alienated me (though I couldn't have understand it in those terms). The one thing I knew is I wanted to be a father and to raise my children well. To do that, I didn't need to be the strongest, or have the best job, or two dozen girlfriends. I just needed to find one woman who would love me and build a family with me. And I figured I'd just have to win her over with my personality, so I never closed myself off to emotional vulnerability.
And that was as much as I thought about my gender and sexuality for the next 25 years. It wasn't until I was married and had kids that I asked myself "Now what?". Long story short, I now realize I'm asexual and agender. And the question of "what is masculinity?" makes less sense to me than ever.
It's so weird being forced into a gender or sexuality box when it ain't for you, isn't it? I'm really glad you discovered who you are and got away from all that nonsense.
" we can't just solve a problem just by saying I don't know what you should do just don't do this` "
that's a good one , grate vid btw
Thank you for your work, I am from Brasil and we don't have that kind of discussion here
I feel my parents just followed the societal expectation to have a kid, they didn't really parent but provided financially just fine. But I mostly raised myself, we didn't really hug that much or say "I Love You" but I never felt unloved until I got older and realized how lacking in self-worth I was, how much I projected the idea that people (specifically women) didn't want me to approach them. It took therapy and several iterations of myself to finally reach an understanding and comfort about my upbringing. I don't know how relatable that is but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has a fairly sterile home life in terms of emotions.
“Sterile” is a good description of it. It’s definitely not always blatant, or even cold emotional neglect, but a weird sort of distance.
We need more discussions of exactly the topics you addressed, positive masculinity especially, thank you for the wonderful addition 🤗
Well, let me add my voice. Thank you. For clearly defining patriarchy, that's very helpful to me. But more importantly, I realized that in some ways I still was raised male and that hurts for two very different reasons, but I thank you none the less for it. If absolutely nothing else, you saved me a lot of years of hurt.
My male role models right now are mainly Jon and Alan from Cinema Therapy. They're so completely, and utterly comfortable in their masculinity and their friendship. They make comments about male actors being hot, they make jokes about being married to each other, Alan cries basically every episode (and sometimes Jon does too), etc. They model vulnerability, emotional intimacy, cooperation, in my experience not so much healthy conflict resolution but it is there, and prob other stuff too that I can't articulate. It doesn't hurt that I'm an aspiring therapist (trying to get back in school) and Jon is the kind of therapist I want to be (not his specialities, just his whole approach to the job).
So yeah, I'm kind late to the party, but here's my contribution and my thanks!
Thanks, this video has helped me articulate something that's been on my mind a lot recently.
I'm a younger guy, just transitioning into adulthood, and as someone left leaning I've always seen a celebration of feminism and general criticism of traditional masculinity. Rightly so of course, but as mentiond in this video I was never given anything else to attach to.
Now lucky for me I've been working to craft myself into a better person (psychedelics are a hell of a drug kids) and I feel I've done a reasonable job; fuck knows I'm better than I was as an edgelord teen. But something that's bothered me for years now is ideas like "boys are irresponsible" or boys are "messy and their mum always cleaned up for them" and "boys are emotional immature and slaves to their sexual desires". These condescending jokes and attitudes towards men that soemtimes crop up, often online as well as in person. I had one female friend tell me that "men always come running back" on the topic of relationships. Now I think I see why people say this. They understand tradional masculinity as negative, but they themselves haven't seen a better alternative, and instead of helping men build a better masculinity, they rag on those lost men who have no new identity to cling to, taking the piss out of the idea they're lost and damaged by patriarchy. It makes you feel completely unappreciated, something reinforced by the condescending tones of these jokes; my old ideals clearly aren't working, but the feminists and left leaning people who say they want to help are laughing at me as much as everyone else. I think part of this is most people aren't as interested in studying politics/society. They absorb some ideas from more mainstream social discussions, but don't look too deeply. That's not a criticism, it's fair, I'm just a massive fucking nerd and so js anyone reading this lol. Still, the idea that men need a new ideal hasn't entered mainstream political/social discussion, and I think it really needs to.
Anyway that's my little rant, if your reading this much love have and have a good day
It's a good rant. I really feel the tides are turning on this topic, and in the favourable direction. We gotta stay on it and press these talking points.
Another banger ! Thank you so much for making these kinds of videos. Sometimes it's easy to forget that people can be empathetic (especially when you look at what's posted on social media these days).
As a trans teen, I’ve got an interesting experience with accepting myself as a guy. It’s inevitable that I’d feel separate from other guys my age, but I don’t let it get to me because I still have positive male role models who help reinforce your message in this video. It’s okay to express joy, it’s okay to take care of yourself. You can do all of these things and still be masculine because positive masculinity is what you make of it, not what you’re told to be
Im an older fella. Just want to say that hearing a younger man say this let me breath a sigh of relief. You asked about role models. For some reason Im compelled to think of Thomas Sankara with your video.
I'm a ciswoman but I resonate with your videos so much, especially from the intersections of being Asian and being super emotionally repressed. I learned anger and hatred from the men of my life and deal with lot of loneliness in ways alot my female peers do not. Ive never belonged or had a group of friends and struggle w forming emotional connections. A couple of your videos made me really emotional and continue to move me. Thank you for being here!
Excellent video! I hope this makes the rounds! :)
What a fantastic video Finn, I immediately subscribed! I have had to unlearn toxic masculinity and relearn positive masculinity and empathy, took a while but I am at a way better place mentally and physically after freeing myself from the confines of patriarchy. Channels like yours are going to do a lot of good work in helping men to gain perspective and recover in a healthy way, keep doing the good work!
is it bad that i got marginally upset when this video was only 22 min? thank you sooooooooo much for your work and i can’t wait to see more!!!
Really can't fathom your channel hasn't blown up yet? You really speak the message the world needs to hear these days! Thanks for your work 🙏
Jesse told me about your essays. I am glad she did.
How TF did I miss this? "It is patriarchy versus everyone, including men." This is such a simple concept that makes so much sense-and could be seen as so threatening by so many people who truly want to better. "Just put the moisturizer on, boys," CRACKED ME UP because I had just done so before starting this video. And yeah, I guess we should get consent before we start trying to lift people over our heads. 😂Thanks for the video, Finn!
Thank you so much for this video.
I'm incredibly grateful that the people in my life don't deny men physical affection, but even I can see that they absolutely deny them emotional support otherwise. You also challenged and brought up some ideas I hadn't considered, especially the way patriarchy/society treats men as expendable. I had thought of the general concept as it relates to working people vs capital owners, but I neglected to consider how it relates to gender in general societal relations.
What you're doing here is incredibly important, and I can't wait to see what comes next.
So from a woman who often doesn't know how to talk to men about the patriarchy (and sometimes falls to patriarchal ideas myself), truly thank you so much.
Finn, your videos are as well-researched and clearly written as your voice is soothening. I feel I could listen to you talk about complex subjects for hours, finish more relaxed than I started, and still remember much of what you said. Talk about OP, bro...
Damn, what a lovely thing to say, thank you so much!
@@FinntasticMrFox Not all truths have to hurt, amirite? 😁
Anecdotal story about my cousin getting policed by a gal he was seeing when he deviated from gender norms:
so he and I are both military. I went Army he went Navy SOF. I’m used to navigating and blurring gender binary because I’m a cis lesbian in a very masculine profession. I think fucking with gender expectations is fun. But last time we hung out I encouraged him to start a skin care routine. He was totally open to it ( he accidentally used an ex’s body scrub once and it changed his life), but expressed anxiety at what others would say. I told him “just tell them your lesbian cousin bullied you into it”.
Fast forward a few months later and he’s seeing this other sailor. At some point she peeps his (Inisfree brand - literally the most neutral labeled shit that is often marketed to men) skincare and she flips. She demands A) who’s the side chick your fucking and/or B) tell me if you’re gay right now. He used the line I gave him and she totally changed tunes and burst out laughing
As hilarious as that is and relieving that that line worked. It didn’t matter that he was SOF, owned tons of guns, is a sky diving instructor, and scubas and surfs. He did one small thing and someone would sooner believe he was a cheater or a different sexuality than that he liked taking care of his skin. No wonder many guys avoid even the blandest of activities or products that are not considered hypermasculine
And fellas, if you need a scapegoat to save face in your journey to deconstructing masculinity, just say your lesbian cousin bullied you into trying the “girly” thing. If you don’t have one, I’m your cousin now
Oh my god, that poor guy... Women are definitely big enforcers of harmful stereotypes, too, and it sounds like this particular gal has some things she needs to work on. I hope she does just that, or that he finds someone who is more understanding and supports him breaking stereotypes (and compliments his undoubtedly lovely complexion.)
As always, thank you. Your thoughtfulness and intellectual bread crumb path linger long after your video is finished.
Here's a metric that might be useful and easier for younger people to measure: What age did you know longer feel welcome in your parent's bed after a bad dream or when you just needed some comfort? I wonder if that is different between expressed genders...
So, so so fantastic. I'm just now stumbling on your channel and if your other content is anything like this, I'm super excited to dive in. Great to meet ya Mr. Fox.
Great to meet you, too! Thanks so much for being here. 💙
Constable Benton Fraser from Due South was my role model growing up. He had all these amazing skills and was extremely competent and dependable. He was also extremely honest and compassionate to a level that was played for laughs as it was contrasted against a more jaded and selfish world.
This is so necessary. Power vacuums in the wake of dismantling undesirable structures are very real, and criticism can be harmful if not constructive.
Every time I hear about positive masculinity I come to the conclusion 'Isn't just positive masculinity/femininity being a good person?'
Thanks for the video! Found out about you from Elliot Sang's livestream and fell in love with your vibe
Kinda but I don’t think this specific video is about trying to teach being a good person, but trying to teach better health. There has been an implication that masculinity is toxic or evil, or that it’s about hating women, or that positive masculinity is this new thing that’ll teach men to be actually good people.
In other discussions a lot of the time positive masculinity boils either to being a good person, or just the same gender roles at the benefit of women, like always be, nice and protective to women, always leading people, etc (which isn’t bad but isn’t good either to always expected to protect women to the point of dying or expected to always know what to do).
However this video about positive masculinity at least somewhat cares for men more than “No! men should be this! Men should be that!” (At least until part 2 where we now should always make sure our strength is about protecting people and making others always feel safe) It at least actually cares about the health of men, not trying to make men beneficial for others.
Heck most people talking about positive masculiny / toxic masculinity would probably look at a man not opening up, not taking care of themselves due to him being depressed, and the first thing that comes into their mind is accusing the reasoning for his situation being misogyny, but this video at least gives a different explanation then misognry. Seriously, blaming every issue that men face on men hating women feels belittling.
Idk maybe I’m just rambling.
You are the kind of creator young boys need to watch but bc you’re not yelling and insulting other ppl or treating others like objects a lot of them won’t even find this content 😔
I'll keep at it for the ones who do. 💙
Just engaging with the video so that it reaches more people
Glad Caelan Conrad directed me here. I can't honestly say I learned much new from this video, but it was definitely well researched and made and made me interested to see what else you've produced and will produce.
I would like to thank you for wording this better than I have and more publicly
I know a lot of guys that need this
Gonna be rewatching this when I need a refresher on positive masculinity. Thank you for making this!
I'm a trans woman and this is kinda weird for me to watch, but I think my relationship with masculinity needs to change. I don't want to associate masculinity with something bad. Just because it's not for me doesn't mean I should reject it outright as bad. This has been really lingering on my mind because I'm attracted to men and I don't want my personal experiences with forced masculinity to be put on them. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I appreciate seeing examples of positive masculinity so I can recognize the good from the bad and not have it all be mushed together. I think it's nice to have examples masculinity that aren't "pretransition me" or insecure people. I also want to help people despite my solution to my problems with masculinity being flipping to the other side. Most men won't be helped by femininity.
Thank you for this. The value that I have gotten from this video is immense
If only VPNs could protect Canadians from roaming packs of ATVs 😂
i don't know how many men are ready for this, but i really think a lot of men could learn so much from queer masculinity re: learning how to repurpose masculinity in positive and prosocial.ways. this is a bit of a blanket statement and not true for every individual masculine queer person, but as a butch lesbian i find so much inspiration in other butches and in transmascs and masc nonbinary people, since we've often had to examine our masculinity that much harder in relation to our gender. i know i've spent hours and hours thinking about my own lesbian masculinity :') about what aspects of masculinity speak to me, which ones alienate me, and which ones i actively refuse to perpetuate
obviously my experience as a masc lesbian isn't likely to be the same as that of a cis or trans man, nor would out masculinity be the same, but we can and should look to each other for examples of what a more prosocial masculinity can and should look like
Hard agree on this. Talking to cis men as a trans man has always led to really interesting, meaningful conversations about masculinity--and this is especially true when butch women and masc non-binary people are involved, too.
I think this message is important for everyone to hear, its important we have open dialogues about gendered societal problems 😄
I was really impacted by what you said about being comforted and when we stopped being able to receive comfort as men. I don’t blame anyone in particular for this, but I remember multiple times as a kid having to isolate myself in shame when I felt like crying in front of other people. I learned to self-soothe, which has helped me navigate a world run on capitalism, but I have seen my default of self-soothing get in the way of intimacy with my wife and close friends.
Men if you are reading this I challenge you to let someone you love and trust comfort you. I think we have come past the “real men don’t cry myth” but I would challenge you to take the vulnerable step of trusting someone to be with you in your pain.
Thanks for all you do, your insights are always helpful and endearing. I hope you have a wonderful holiday season surrounded by loved ones.
Thank you! I hope you do, as well. 💙
My first time listening and I have to thank you for taking on this topic. Your points are totally on point. Because so many positive aspects of masculinity (being leaders, protectors, providers, and even fathers) are longer exclusive to heterosexual males, there has been a fearful and angry pushback (from some men and amazingly even some women ) to make masculinity be defined by either excessive aggression (bullying, hostility, violent behavior) or misogyny and sexual manipulation of women/other genders. I hope your courage will bring our culture to a healthier place for everyone. Thank you:)
Great vid. Thank you.
I really needed to hear this, thank you!
Thank you for this video.
*Cites sources as they're being referenced within the video*
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The patriarchy is so insidious. I have 2 young sons, and we talk about concepts of gender and masculinity, creating your own path, courage as being scared and doing it anyway all the time. I encourage play on both sides of the gender spectrum, We live in an amazingly accepting community, and I homeschool my kids, so they don't even get the bullying. And yet, even though one likes to wear a dress at home sometimes, he won't wear it outside anymore.
Very interesting, thank you for being someone who put in question toxic patterns of traditionnal society. I'm a male and I grew up with a father who was naturally extremely muscular without lifting weights (which is very rare). He was more of an alpha male type (with the toxic characteristics associated with this type of "profile"). He was distant, always in his corner, doing manual work (which gives me the impression today that mainstream society conveys this message: "to be a man, you absolutely have to be manual, handyman, etc.") . My mother, for her part, has always had a sort of fascination and attraction for extremely muscular male physiques.
Further more, I grew up in the 90's and 2000's, where the industry of bodybuilding and fitness have had an enormous influence on society. Video games, movies, toys... Every male character (or almost) was suppose to be a leader, very muscular and so on...
All these factors have contributed to the fact that today, I still try to live in harmony with my body (which is rather naturally slender and very thin), wich is not that easy. I stopped going to gyms (very toxic places) years ago and that is one the best decision I made in my life. So many men are sick because of this enormous pressure of the patriarchy.
I don't use almost any cosmetics not because I fear being "feminine", it's just that I regard almost all of them as the usual consumer scam bs and I find that my body is pretty amazing at skin care especially since "taking care" of it more: breaking the cycle of addiction; being a gardener, being in nature; doing a little daily sports; loving life. I think I lived positive masculinity pretty good before even learning about it, out of a gut feeling 😄
Especially the vulnerability breaking this patriarchal concept of masculinity speaks to my experience and I've thought about often long before learning this was a whole thing -
also I loved how perfectly analagous this "tiny minority the game is rigged towards making the vast majority fight over the crumbs they leave behind" is to capitalism which enables all of these cultural cancers in the first place as much as they complement each other!
I really enjoy your videos, I find a lot of what you say is very useful in my own journey on how to be a better man.
Fantastic video. Glad Jessie Gender pointed it out!
Ending the night off with this video essay. Really want my writing to be this good one day cuz *wow*