Bondtech Bowden PTFE Coupler Fails - Here Is My Fix
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ธ.ค. 2018
- The PTFE Bowden tube running from the Bondtech to the E3D nozzle on my Matterhackers Pulse XE was slipping out. Once I figured that out, it was simple to fix while a true fix was printed.
#3dprinting #bondtech #bowdentube
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My bondtech with capricorn did the same till I drilled out the housing and threaded a better gripping coupler to the bondtech
4 years later this is still a thing with the bondtechs and thank you for this vid. Was super frustrated and this actually fixed it.
You sir, saved my evening. I tried looking at it, I tried putting in two of those clips (not enough room) and then I found this sweet little video. Seriously, thanks.
It's an older video, sir, but it checks out. I was having issues with my fancy Capricorn tube popping out of my extruder. Nothing I did could make it stay in. It wasn't until I saw your external diameter measurements that it clicked and I swapped the coupler for the one that came with the tubing. Thank you!
This same thing just started happening with my Tevo while I'm in the middle of printing face shield frames for the medical community during this COVID-19 festival of crap. Needless to say I was on a timeline. I know this didn't seem like ground breaking information but I'm glad you decided to upload because it was a great help for much more than printing toys. (My normal use for my printer)
Thanks for the heads up Joel, I didn't realise this was a potential problem. I've recently installed a Bondtech BMG on my CR-10s4. Originally with standard PTFE tubing and it worked perfect. I then upgraded to Capricorn Tube, still working perfectly. But I just checked and there is a bit of wobble going on. Will investigate further when time allows.
My main concern is longevity, so want to find a solution before failure, and be able to replace a part if it's necessary.
To be fair, I have been in contact with Bontech with some questions recently and their response and advice has been fantastic so far.
I upgraded my CR-10 with the same extruder, bondtech BMG. Had the same issue with the tube popping out, and You could see the plastic thingy moving back and forth with retractions. Even following bondtech instructions of pulling out with a nail while inserting the tube didn’t help. But printing a thicker clip fixed it, and the STL is available on the bondtech website.
I have been making allot of practical prints lately. Mostly in the form of speshal tools. Been saving a good deal of money.
To do something similar I used the barrel of an old heat-sink compound syringe. Some judicious cutting produced a very cheap but effective spacer of the right diameter and height. A side benefit is I can make lots from a single syringe, no worries about losing them.
I have a dotbit clone to the bmg which I used the Bowden adaptor to a threaded coupler (from a Titan clone) and I just ran into that problem!! It actually broke the plastic piece off the coupler. I will be using a clip when I receive my new Bowden tubes and couplers. Thank you!!!
i LOVE elegantly simple solutions!
Thanks for posting this, I was having the same issue and it was quite frustrating. So far the thicker clip has worked great :)
Happily I have found this video after my tube had popped out at least 3 times!
Thanks This was super helpful even two years later!!!
I had this same problem with the bond tech extruder I got to replace the one on my Ender 3. Could get the tube in and pull the printer across the desk with the tube. But after a few minutes of printing, the tube would pop out. Ended up sending it back and going with a Titan. See other replies from people who have had a bond tech extruder for some time with no issues, makes me think something has changed in the manufacturing process. Hope they get it fix soon so they don't keep losing sales.
That's a great idea. I have the same issue with my bondtech.
Valuable info! I don't have one, but thought about upgrading my maker select to bondtech. Currently dealing with mid print jams on my MK3 that have no problem unloading and re loading filament fine after the jam...
Thanks so much for this video. For me the movement and wiggle in the fitting must of created wear to the plastic lock in the fitting. I had to replace the fitting to get it to lock onto the bowden tube. I also added a thicker clip.
I've had similar issues with Titan extruders! Nice fix, I think I did something similar:)
More little tips like this would be great, even if just to keep in the back of one's mind, should the situation arise one day. Thank you!
I had a similar situation. I put a e-clip in place until I was able to design and print a thicker clip. I designed the clip to be zip tied in place with small ties. You could use twist ties but it's not as esthetic.
Man... You just saved me! Thank you for this video!
WOW I thought I was the ONLY ONE with this problem! I honestly thought I was just dumb or had a defective bondtech coupler. Btw mine is using cap tubes on my CR-10S
Thanks for updating 😀👍
Thank you. The part with the Capricorn bowden did it for me 😅🤪
Thank you for this, its happening to my bondtec v3 too.
Awesome video Joel! Side note, I wonder if you could stack "C" ring clips from the autoparts store if the clip is too weak, broken or ill fitting?
Huge thanks! This simple solution worked like a charm on my Anycubic I3 Mega-S.
Glad it helped!
Hi! I just got that issue for the first time with my Chiron printer and I taught it was fixed after I actually used a small tie wrap but it just happened again so I'm not sure If I need to change the coupler now.
The tie wrap idea was from Anycubic since they use one at the hotend.
Same thing happened with some of the early Ender 3 printers. Angus had quite some trouble with his couplers. I think he switched out his couplers to fix the issue. I went the clip route with mine.
I've been running a Bondtech extruder for a couple years on my Ultimaker 2+ and have never had an issue. However, the UM uses 2.85 mm filament, and has a 6.35 mm Bowden.
Thanks for this video Joel, I am having the same issue and as you stated this is a issued that shows up on prints with a lot of retractions, at least for me. A couple of small prints worked fine but I have wasted a lot of filament on failed prints. I'm not sure your solution is the best approach but may work short term. I also noted the same size diameter issue with the Capricorn PTFE tubing so I was planning on doing the same method as Alex Cunningham suggested and have a new bag of couplers and a drill press just need to get a tap for the couplers. This is a much better solution long term and the couplers can be replaced if needed.
FYI the new coupler is a M10X1.0 thread.
Just happened to my ender 5 pro. Thank you so much for making this.
Glad it helped!
I’m excited because I have this exact issue with my daVinci Jr. printer. Do you /have you/ could you post a link to the .stl for the clip? Thanks.
Honestly my fix for this issue with other bowden extruders is to just use a twist tie and tie it tightly around where the clip is supposed to be. Stills works great but admittedly slightly harder to remove than a clip 🤗
3d printing nerd. You should know that you are the best 3d printing TH-camr.
I cannot believe I didn’t think of this! My microswiss has been driving me crazy recently with its stupid red clip. Flipped it upside down and now no more popped out tube! 🙏🏻
From several of the posts I have read from below It sounds like if you reset the flow rate thru the extruder to a little slower feed rate that might cut down on the back pressure in the hotend IE the filament is nor exiting fast enough and is allowing the incoming cold filament to build pressure in the Bowden tube pushing it out of the extruder just a thought I do not use bowden tube systems but I think that this might be worth a try along with replacing the coupler in the extruder
Same issue. Using Capricorn makes it wiggle a lot. Using a thicker clip does the trick.
Same fix on the other end too. The I use a Push Fit Pneumatic Coupling Coupler Fitting that I force shut with a plastic twist tie. This is much better.
Thanks for the video. I had this exact issue with my Ender 5 plus (my very first 3d printer)
My fix was pretty easy.. I didn't have any clip installed on the extruder at all 🙄
Thank you so much for this I managed to see this just before I ripped out my last hair.
Glad I could help!
I got the same printer and have/had the same problem I also think the tube should be a little longer and there should be some kind of holder up there to keep the tube from jerking around that much. Also if you got the STL's for those clips somewhere please let me know so I can print some cause you can't buy them it seems
same kind of problem with Couplers with the metal teeth that grab the tube.
good habit to press the button to retract the teeth as you remove and install so the tube doesn't put force on them and metal breaks if they bend to much.
I never had that problem on the BMG side. I had this happen when my nozzle clogged and pushed out the tube on the hotend side.
my E3D Hermera does the same thing with Capricorn tubing, I have an idea, since the diameter is smaller, I'll rap it once with painters tape, the roughness and extra girth should help
It hasn't happened to me yet but I'll reverse my clip while I print a new one too, thanks for the tip!!
Thank YOU for being so awesome!
Well, I just got my Pulse XE and I will now go and check my bowden tube when i get home.
Let us know if you design a clip or which clip you print, I'm sure there will be others that need it as well.
Bondtech dual drive extruder here, just changed to new ptfe tube, same issue. Different coupling tho. These things wear out quite fast it seems.
alternative solution- you can wrap a paper clip around the fastener and it works quite well
I’m visiting the Bondtech HQ tomorrow :)
I also got this problem and also resorted to flipping the clip around to solve it quickly. Then I found this video. :-)
Interestingly enough this did take quite some time to manifest. Probably because of deformation due to squeezing in the coupler or similar. Or possibly just some wear in the teeth of the coupler because I also tried cutting off a bit and that worked only for a few days before it failed again.
I don't have an exact time it took for the problem to arise because while the printer has a runtime counter, the bondtech hasn't been on it from the start. But let's say somewhere around 2000 print hours. Possibly as much as 3000. Ish.
Same issue with the Bondtech that I installed on my Ender 3. It likes to wait until 3-4 hours into a long print to do it just so it can waste filament and time too.
Do you have a link for a new clip? Mine is non existent so my tube is doing the same as yours
The black fitting on there is the same "John Guest" fitting as in the entrance of an e3d v6. Over years of using both I have had them fail at both ends (e3d and Bondtech sides) when the internal pressure the Bondtech can generate overcomes the strength of the Teflon tubing. Teflon cold flows under to high a pressure. The dimensions you measured with the calipers showing the tube as undersized are because the tube was stretched... Which drew out the length, not pinched by the barb fitting.
Long story short, cut off the deformed tubing end, and yes use a thicker spacer. Also always make sure you have the tube pushed all the way down into the QR housing. I have 9 Bondtechs between all my different printers. They work great but yes the problem is they can apply too much force if your nozzle is clogged or if you aren't applying enough thermal energy in to melt at the same rate you're trying to extrude. It's a good problem to have, having that much grip. But when you have that much grip, bad things can happen if you try and drive filament into a brick wall :-)
Is it a good idea to print the first few layers of a Nylon print with something like PETG for better adhesion, If a dual extruder is available?
This is an interesting idea that I can't try and don't have experience with, but empirically it seems to me that it wouldn't work, I don't think adhesion between PA and PET is fundamentally possible. Still worth trying though!
Siana Gearz it does not have to stick terribly hard, I think the little bit of Adhesion from welding the materials together (small layer height?) is enough.
Or laminate a single-use nylon foil onto the bed?
Mine works perfectly :)
This is genious, not low-brow. This keeps the printer printing(!)
You can 3D print larger clips for that. And they are easier to grip.
similar issue on my ender 3, i doubled up on the clips to make them thicker
If your running it as a Bowden set up why not flip the extruder upside-down? Then if you have a Bowden fitting fail you can print a replacement piece that a standard Bowden fitting threads into and your good to go.
Had the same issues with the Cr-10s couplers, ended up replacing them since they don't use that little plastic ring =[
I just had that problem with my CR-10, I figured out that it was with the compression joint and I used a paper clip to fix it.
Anycubic i3 mega has simular issue they have a zip tie in that gap and i came from manufacturer this way and it is also noted in the owners manual about this issue.
It comes down to cheap connectors, I have been using similar connectors from SMC for use with pneumatics with pressurised air for 10-15 years and haven't ever had an issue with hoses blowing off.
What is the thickness of that filament it looks thick!
My BMG does have a different bowden coupling. Maybe they changed it. Nevertheless, the coupling just broke, there were tiny metal parts coming out. Luckily its a standard coupling that is used in E3D V5, so i had a spare one available..
well done and engaging!
I had the same problem with my FLSUN!
I've heard of other people having this issue. I have 3 Bondtech BMG's and have not had this problem. SeeMeCNC has clips that are thicker and they have a loop connected to them that will keep it from flying away when you remove it.
is.gd/tAG3O6 Here they are.
Could “upside-down” actually be right side up? 🤣
ive been tryiing to find compression fittings for my cr10s pro because my Capricorn fittings keep shredding the teeth inside of the fittings
Daaaam your capricorn cutter mangled that end. glad you mentioned you used the product for the job or else you'd have been brashed out in the comments so hard for mangling that tube
I have the monoprice select mini v2 3d printer and I had the same problem the day I bought it. I was very scared that it broke. Now it's fine and better then ever. Like this if you ever thought your printer broke.
Turn your BMG extruder around. The other side has a much easier to replace coupler. Can the one at the end Joel has up top even be replaced? I've not tried to remove it before.
I thought about this - this is how it cones factory installed.
@@3DPrintingNerd It's just a simple setting in Marlin or wiring to turn it around. The Bondtech docs imply you can install it in either direction. Their FAQ implies you can install it in either direction such as under "EXTRUDER TURNING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION" "Depending on the orientation of your extruder and if you use the top or bottom port as the output port to your hotend..."
The problem is only partly the clip. I've printed thicker clips, I've replaced the whole coupler with air line coupler. It's simply they have so much torque it will plow thru the ptfe and shove it out of the coupler. You have to just back off your tension adjustment. So if get too much pressure then the filament is allowed to slip instead of build up pressure until the ptfe itself fails and sheers away from the teeth of the coupler. This is a design drawback of using a screw to set the pressure of the gears, it is a hard set point that doesn't any slippage, resulting in ptfe now becoming the failure instead of simply risking hearing the filament click when back pressure builds up
So instead you have to find a sweet spot. Enough clamping in the extruder gears it feeds, but only just that. So if/when pressure builds up due to slightly low temp or trying to feed more material than can melt at given flow rate, the material IS allowed to slip back and.. click.. your already at Max feed rate for the temp/flow if this happens so won't even result in an artifact in the print. Just released the excess mechanical pressure on filament between the nozzle and extruder teeth
@@MattWeber I turned down the current on the extruder stepper to reduce heat. It also helps with filament jams, as rather than stripping the filament the motor skips steps. If I were anything of a programmer, I could use this stall condition to stop the printer rather than letting it continue with a failed print.
@@Tailgunner30 My bondtech doesnt get hot even. If i do hear it clicking due to back pressure it almost always is simply im a couple degrees too cold for the filament to flow well and I adjust it.
Had to do this with my Th3d Tough Extruder when I got it as an 'upgrade'.
Now I'm going to go dual drive bondtech as I keep getting fails where the filament gets jammed a bit and then the extruder chews a chunk out of the filament and can't move anymore.
It's probably something to do with my E3D V6 allowing heat to creep up into the main body but I can't say for certain. I have upgraded the cooling fan on the V6 to a larger Noctua Fan. Still happens.
Hoping a dual drive Bondtech LGX can solve this problem. If not I'll try changing it too direct drive. If that doesn't work I guess I'll try changing the V6 out for a Mosquito hotend. I feel like I've over committed to my CR10 as a printer but that's the nature of this hobby I guess.
Oh my gosh I had that same exact problem with my CR-10!
Mine was from pressure building up in the nozzle though.
The fitting on my bondtech broke. So now no matter what it pulls out.
I´m having the same problem. Nothing but problems since I "upgraded" to the Bondtech!
Why doesn't make the PTFE retainer replaceable like on the Ender 3 and Cr-10S Pro? They will eventually wear out.
It is replaceable. Bondtech sells spares for about $1 and so do plenty of other I would assume. It's a standard part. The brass collar in the extruder is not, but you're not going to wear that out before the rest of it.
Though I will say that it would not a bad thing if the BMG had something like the E3D groove mount on the top as well so that people could choose what kind of connector they wanted just by printing the appropriate adaptor. I'm happy enough with the standard coupler and it did take a really long time for this to arise. I can live with printing a thicker retaining clip or replacing the coupler once every few thousand hours. But if others don't then it would be nice with an option.
I got the same issue with my xyz da Vinci pro. Can you share the stl file please.
Had this happen to me with the Capricorn tube. I switched back to the original Bowden tube. Seems to be working again.
Well, it started doing this with the original PTFE tube, so I am trying to use a zip tie to hold it in.....
Happened with my BMG Extruder on my CR-10 ended up milling that little metal ring and screwing in a basic push fitting.
So did I. Works great.
Small zip tie works great to
I have had this happen to a two machines. Not bondtechs. I've had a little copper wire wrapped under my bowden clippy thing for a year or more.
Lol. Me too.. enamel coated magnet wire.
Using a little wire from a network cable!
If Cap tubing is smaller outer diameter, is there a connector that has smaller diameter?
Its minimally smaller. But its a softer PTFE also if using the translucent blue one.. the opaque blue Capricorn is more rigid than average cheap ptfe and wouldnt have issues with the squish Joel is worried about, but bondtech doesnt advise using ptfe that is any smaller than 4.0mm OD at all. IMO its just a flaw in their design. Having only 4 teeth in their coupling vs 6-12 found in airline couplings of similar size, means there is a lot more space for the PTFE to squeeze between teeth and come loose
@@MattWeber I have the Cap tubing in blue, the question was, does someone make a connector that fits Cap tubing? I would think that it would require a connector with a 3.75 opening going by Joel's & measurements of my own Cap tubing.
@@buildersmark Yes.. any of the 4mm fittings will fit the Cap tubing.. its a matter of like i said in my original comment on the video. Not overtightening the clamping screw so that the pressure can build up and cause the ptfe to get shoved out in the first place. The original fitting will work with cap tubes, its user error that leads to the problem Joel is having for the 90% part, and a simple bad design the remaining 10%. E3D uses a similar style coupler and has the same issue with titan extruder. Its just a matter of using proper adjustment of the extruder.
@@buildersmark Capricorn also sell matching couplers www.captubes.com/shop/#!/Accessories/c/25823850/offset=0&sort=normal Cheers, JAYTEE
These fittings were designed for high pressure applications, not bowden tubes. But they work for the most part.
Have you not contacted bondtech about this issue??
same happened on my mp select min v2
It happened to my Creality CR10s pro V2 WITH Capricorn tubing...
I've decided the real solution is a direct drive hotend combo like a Hemera.
is it possible it was always supposed to be mounted like that? Seems like a weird thing for a company to do otherwise.
just happened to me on a clone. however in my case the coupler had actually broken.... only immediate fix was to turn the whole extruder around to use the other coupler (attached differently) and set klipper to reverse direction
Mine did the same thing, I just designed and printed a fatter clip like you were saying
care to share??
I've never had it come out with my previous couplers, .. however the these bowden adapters suck. Even with a thicker clip, .. mine just pushes out the tube entirely making groves in the PTFE tube, it's just not properly gripping the tube.
Sounds like your coupler is failing and you should look into replacing it.
Ive got a couple of couplers that have failed this way. eventually it will fail again.
Mine failed and it pulled the brass ring and coupler out, Joel version is a great quick fix. The pressure these things work at need something more stable, I considered a threaded fixing also as mentioned by @Alex Cunningham. I am keeping a small 3mm 'zip tie' to hand just in case, it will give it a better collar, the issue seems to be with the coupler, the grips inside are not very stiff or flexible @@ottersdangerden
@@newmediaplaygroundltd4943 The replacement couplers I picked up are for pnumatics. seeing these are meant for pressurized air I spent a couple bucks more but seem to be a bit better built, they dont have as much play in and out and the spring to remove em are a bit harder. Also the path from the tube to the inside is a bit smother so fillament doesnt catch as easy when trying to feed it through. feeder gear pushes mine off to the side and used to just barley catch.
i got mine from a hydraulics supply house, while i had to drill out the bottom of the coupler a little it is all metal so better and only cost me one euro
@@ottersdangerden Thanks for the info Shane, looked around and managed to source exact replacements for the brass ring and coupler. BondTech replacement parts are cheap but the shipping is horrendous. I eventually sourced from reprap.me website, exactly the same fit and size and cost a lot less - bit.ly/2Rex6zP. exactly the same.
you may use an Endurance laser to upgrade your 3d printer.
uh... who could have though that a one hundred bucks extruder had so bad quality couplers
the trianglelabs clone i have has a better coupler. the insert has pretty much no play and its very hard to put in the clip even the right way and then theres absolutely no play
I used a piece of 20 gauge wire and wrapped it 1.5 times to hold it in place.
If the fitting is a quality push connect, the plastic bit is ONLY to push the METAL teeth to release the tube.
It seems like the tube fittings used in this industry are more than a little bit "inferior to say the least as this is not the first time I have seen this "bowden tube pulling loose" type issue being shown.
Would it not be possible to use pneumatic fittings (Festo for example) in place of what is obviously an inferior product?
Those fittings clamp and seal pipes with quite a high internal pressure and in some cases a lot of movement and they just do not "come loose".
In fact when inserted correctly the pneumatic tube (nylon I think) will break due to the movement stress before the connector lets go.
@Stephanie got that to