Two small subs or One large sub?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2024
- In this video I discuss the differences between using two small subwoofers against one large subwoofer. I use woofers of the same series, and two small drivers of equivalent surface area to one large driver.
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 Introduction
0:54 - EBP/Which type of enclosure?
1:30 - Differences between smaller and larger drivers specs
4:18 - Graphs
7:33 - Conclusion
Use case is car audio, for home theatre/HIFI dual stereo subwoofers are ideal when front L and R speakers can't produce below 70Hz well, i.e. 5.25" mids in a sealed box. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![[UNCUT] รัฐสั่งหยุดปล่อยคลื่น! แต่หยุดพลังปะทุ “น้องหญิง” ไม่ได้ I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RmQh47eIiV0/mqdefault.jpg)
Two large sub😂
All day long!! Lol
With subs it's like engines....
No replacement for displacement.
Big subs, large motors, giant amps, big batteries and massive wire.
....runs two twelves in a small sealed box.....
😄
100th like
hell yes!!
There's no replacement for displacement.
Turbocharger: "Hold my beer."
Very helpful for us small car owners that still want trunk space for everyday use. Thank you!
Buy one jl audio w7-8. Best small sub there is imo.
@@jondoe6618 If I was gonna use one small sub the 8W7 would be the one.
That was a very good analysis. I have had that question come at me many times over the years. In reality, neither option is "better". It all boils down to preference, vehicle type or venue size, space available, power available, overall system design and sound quality.
Going for high output, accurate transient response, or a little bit of both. Music preference can make a difference as well.
@@dednside5229 Did I miss something? I can't read the entire response. Every time I hit "read", I only get the option to reply. Plus, I see a dollar sign next to it. I don't know what that's all about.
Folded horns have the best fidelity and have the fastest transient response, then sealed are second.
I find ported are slow and blur the transient resulting in a less realistic result tending to every track having the same boomy characteristics.
@@brentlaube568have to click on it just right.
GREAT VIDEO! I’ve been going back and fourth trying to choose a driver for my enclosures and now that I know how to determine EBP, I have ruled one out for sure. Thanks a lot for the information, very helpful.
FINALLY! Someone finally answers that question. Great video man!
Really sad if you think this was a proper answer..
@@niro56 be
Goin through the contemplation of this right now. Currently running two single voice coil 12s but have been wanting to go with a single 18 inch DVC just the Hertz and wave I'll get from the 18 will be much lower and should move way more air.i just want to hit like 20hz at like 110 decibels strong as fuck. Its happening quicker than anyone would think but I'm on my way to entering small SPL competitions . Long live the bass heads
One often overlooked fact is that the larger the driver, the smaller its circumference as compared to its surface area. This circumference being where the air wants to leak away from the driver rather than move with it, it is then easy to understand why coupling will alway be better with a large driver, giving it it more clout especially at low levels.
I have two 13 inch subwoofer on the left and right in 25m2 room and I am more than happy with the results. Less movement less distortion
Ported, horns and 6th order usually need subwoofers with a stronger motor than an infinite baffle. Two small subwoofers might be better in a horn. Some of those little Sundown 8" subwoofers would absolutely pound in a high compression front loaded horn, so they can be well impedance matched and actually make use of a strong motor. These subwoofers were made to metaphorically "push a big gear". Folded horn drivers and drivers for small ported boxes have similar parameters.
I like to use large PA style drivers in ported as they are very economical on power, though not as much raw SPL at their limits and take up more space for the box. They are usually used for concerts because the venue's electricity supply is less taxed.
Until half way through I thought he was talking about subway.
takes too long to say the word subwoofer :P
2-6" subs or 1 foot long?
That's the weed talking.
I've built enclosures for pairs of pretty much every size sub woofer, and once I built one for four 10"s. But my current enclosure uses a single 18" (with two 15" passive radiators, which act as a port) and it is by far the best, most musical sub setup I've ever created, out of about 30 of them.
@Fish Chris does it matter the sub to match a passive radiator in sealed box? Like say one 15 pair with two 12 inch passive radiators?
@@elitusluxuer2336 I'm not an expert, but from what I've read, you should use double the cone area... so one 15" sub would do best with two 15" PR's. And honestly, my two 15" PR's are pretty much maxed out. In retrospect, I should have followed this advice and went with two 18" PR's. You can use different sized PR's though, than your sub(s) like I did. You should just stick to close to double the surface area. I've considered adding one more 15" PR to my same enclosure. Wouldn't sound any different, it would just take some of the load off of my two current PR's.
Hey man any way you could make a video of your setup?? I’m considering doing something similar
Bro I just want some bass. I didn't know you need to do math lmao.
If you want really good bass you'll have to calculate box and port sizes and stuff, luckily there is software to do this for you.
Lol
@@amusicmorning9190 what software
Jokes aside, the Math would actually help with the bass that you want. I’ll admit that it’s not simple Math (and I say that as someone who loves it), but the trade off is that you can become more efficient if you know the right Math and science. For example, if you’re just wanting bass in general then the right Math can get that achieved via 2 8 inch subs when you thought you needed 2 15s.
@@MannuhFestIt 2 - 8" 😂☠
Do all the math in the world & it wouldn't come close to 2-15" subwoofers 🤦🏻♂️
Cool video im gonna take your word for it
For example a two 15 inch sub has more cone area than one 18. You could also make the box narrower (front baffle to fit in weird or narrow spaces for example.
But the 18 will be cheaper and easier to make the box for.
Here is a list for cone area (in general, not for specific drivers)
One 8" = 50.27
One 10" = 78.54
One 12" = 113.1
One 15" = 176.71
One 18" = 254.47
Two 8" = 100.53
Two 10" = 157.08
Two 12" = 226.19
Two 15" = 353.43
Two 18" = 508.94
Three 8" = 150.8
Three 10" = 235.62
Three 12" = 339.29
Three 15" = 530.14
Three 18" = 763.41
Four 8" = 201.06
Four 10" = 314.16
Four 12" = 452.39
Four 15" = 706.86
Four 18" = 1017.87
A 12" sub doesn't actually have 12" diameter of cone area though. On average most subs tend to have about 70% of their actual size-diameter as cone area. So a 10" sub for example would have an effective 7" diameter of cone. And a 7" cone has 38.5 sq inches of area, NOT 78.54.
Also i should add, when measuring the cone diameter, you should account for 1/3rd of the surround on both sides.
Very helpful. I've been debating whether to use 4 12s or 2 18s for a month now. I have decided to go with the 18s duebto power constraints.
I would of gone with 4 12s and double the power. 🤑
18s for the lower frequency. Good call!
@@Quest4Unknown 4 12s>
Very interesting,nice vid and informational.
Depends on what you want HT or music or both.
I have had 4 14 inch super cube reference subwoofers from definitive tech since 2010. For movies they dug really really deep but for music I thought they were pretty good until one day I got a cheap 12 inch bic subwoofer and then I realized how bad the big subs were for music. The smaller sub was way faster and picked up every detail of bass the big subwoofers couldn't. The big subs only hit hard on the deep bass but missed around 25-30% of the notes the smaller sub could pick up. But for movies the 12 inch subwoofer was cringe when it tried to hit the same deep bass notes that the big subs could easily hit. The 12 inch sounded to me like nails scratching across a chalk board it was almost comical. I'm currently creating multiple setups and for music I will go with high power ported dual 10/12 inch subs and for movies I will go with 15 inch or larger subwoofers
I have two JBL series 3 12" 500W subs in 0.8cubic Ft boxes and they are really efficient (as far as I can tell). (JBL changed the name of them from "series 3" to "stadium" or something like that but they are the same sub, other than some color changes). Based on the numbers they give in the owners manual, they say that the sub is better in a sealed box rather than ported. I can definitely tell the difference in my system compared to a few others with ported boxes. The best example I have is a naughty song: GPF - Rub R D*ck. If you have a sealed sub you will get insanely tight bass response for that song. But if you have a ported box, you'll probably get a sloppy bass response. I connected a volt meter to the input lines of one sub, and when I'm supposedly doing 1 watt or 10 watts, it is pretty loud. But I have seen videos of people doing ported set ups and pumping 3x the rated power through these JBL subs and it's insane. I'm not going to do that, but if you are not worried about blowing out your sub, then go for it.
Nice video 😃 I needed to see this 😀thanks
Just depends on music preference and space TBF ay it 😁
People looking for a home stereo subwoofer would do well to build a "dual subwoofer" like they would for a car, but plan ahead so you can wire the two subs to create 8 ohms. To be honest, I think driving passive subwoofers sound better than the powered subwoofers. More "musical" in nature. And you'll save yourself some money, or get a better sub for the same price.
I have recently purchased a B2 audio X2SIX 33in subwoofer. I can only run it sealed because of space issues. Unfortunately finding any of this info is very difficult.
Depends. You want loud? Two smaller. You want low bass? One larger. There are also subs that can do both depending on budget. This is really an incredibly subjective video.
Your advice is also over-generalized. The difference between different drivers is greater than the difference between different sizes. People just like to talk about size because it's easy to understand, just like power ratings are. People will walk away when you start talking about how many Tesla*meters the motor generates and how electromechanical underdamping leads to narrow peaks in response before roll-off measured full width at half maximum around resonance derived from the system transfer function and so on.
Loud, low, and small is possible but the tradeoff is much lower efficiency. Just like loud and low with few watts is possible but the tradeoff is huge woofers and boxes.
The simplest advice is that bigger is always better and more is also always better, within reason, so however much space you're willing to give up, use it all and just model various drivers until you get the best predicted response.
I not a professional but Ain't it the difference in speed of speaker eg fast bass for smaller subs and slow heavy bass for bigger subs
But then comes the box not to mention the amp
This video actually put it in better perspective nice video😃😃😃
@@davey2k12 No differences in speed of movement. That's all dependent on the subwoofer motor structures and how the sub is built.
@@davey2k12 that's a old myth. When you size up the magnet and coils also size up. it would only matter if you used a terrible driver
@@FSXgta oh I see lol 😁
Fantastic video. I'm still learning how subs work. My question. I have a pair of TS-A301S4 12" and I see the total EBP is 46.74. It's almost close to being able to port it. What would happen if I did? I'm trying to reach a lower frequency and I have 1.25 cubic feet sealed box. But these subs are not designed to be ported; Learning all this after I bought them. Should I increase the volume of the box to 2 cubic feet or just add lots of polyfill?
Last question. Does getting a subwoofer with a higher RMS wattage lower the EBP?
Thanks. Any advise is appreciated.
Well it depends on you . Id build a larger sub enclosure 🤠👍
@@bobcat3653 plan to and custom to my trunk.
This video is very general in its content. Win isd is a good modeling program but I have read a lot of the comments and I'm not so sure that win isd is the best when modeling for car subs. If you change the boundary effects to 4 pi you will get closer to what you are looking for.
Bill Fitzmaurice has a site that has his Auto Tuba car sub. An 8in sub that performs very well. Could beat out a 15in sub. Might be worth looking at for car sub enthusiasts. You can build one for maybe $70. Speaker included.
Build a transmission line box and everybody and everything is happy
If built correctly... the amount of wood and trail/error isn't worth it unless you have money to burn.
A nice tline is almost as easy to build as any nowadays. Hornresponce, thx to Mr David Mcbean
No one has enough space in a car to build a TL around a big subwoofer.
If you don't have the space I recommend using a smaller driver T lines are amazing and well worth the effort I was on the fence about them too until I build one all low frequency that comes out of the box is clean crisp and amazing people are blowing away when I tell them that I have just one 12 there's no more of that one hit wonder frequency they all hit good and clean and hard it's not a power-hungry design box which makes it even better
Foodhates, dont waste wood, simulate first. Adrei, 40x18x16, isnt too big? Theres two 570cm2 faced 12s in that space tuned in the Low 30s. Taper your line.
I like doing triple and quad subwoofer setups more coil to take the heat and you end up with more surface area for your enclosure volume FTW.
I run xbl2 subs ported and their sound quality is higher than most seals setups I hear
I like that low down bass so I'd go with 1
in a large ported box
@@lorenzo42p 6th order and you can have what you desire.
Depends on what you want output you would want to figure out come area and go from there assuming both had same xmax and power handling the more cone area the more air u can move Wich equates to more spl
I like the okd school car audio with Stereo L+R subs on Class A/B
Dual is better than one, it can punch more base w/ minimum distortion compared to one.
Hod does power usage/requirements differ from car audio to home audio? I had a 300 watt Dennon home amp that could trip a 30 amp fuse. But yet a 2000 watt car amp runs fine on a 30 amp fuse. Other than the loads ohmage, what is so vastly different between the two systems? The Dennon amp weighed like 50 pounds yet the car amp maybe 5.
Every watt is a watt, but home audio always gets its rated voltage, when generally car amps want 14.4v, the lower the voltage the lower the current, and the lower the power. Since cars are small, it doesn't take a ton of power to get loud, which I think is why there are so many "6000 mega watt" car amps, because they're loud enough even though they're 200w RMS, but it really depends on brand. Good car audio brands do their power and more, eg. sundowns new salt-12 is a 12k amp which does 20,000 watts RMS at 1% THD. Another thing to factor in is efficiency, powerful car amps are class D, where as often powerful home audio amps, especially older ones, are class AB. Class AB amps draw more current for the same output.
could it be possible that the 50 pound denon amp was a "true analog" amp (transistors/mosfets, big ass heatsinks 'n' stuff) and the 5 pound car amp was a Class D ?
word on the street (and in marketing material) is that class D amps are crazy efficient (like they can push 120+++ Watts to the speaker while sucking only 75 watts outta the mains socket)
@@KenjiUmino yeah, the denon could be a class A, which essentially turns all power which doesn't go to the speaker into heat, so at low volumes they can be super inefficient, as for class D they're typically 80-90% efficient, so take in 110 watts and output 100 watts, turning only 10 into heat.
The denon could be turning 300w into heat for comparison.
i was contemplating 3 eights or one 12, but i remembered that there is a 3db gain per additional driver, so, even though eights are less sensitive, when all the db gain from multiple drivers and incremental power increase db gains per driver, on paper i can get well over 100 spl from three eights and you can buy three 8s for less money than 1 12, plus a sealed box that will fit behind the seat of my truck
3dB per doubling of driver count, so for 3 total drivers its more like 4.8 dB more. Still very similar to the 6dB I'm guessing you used, but its not like 100 8" subs are over 300dB. Also when you consider power consumption, 3 8" 250w subs are way louder than one 12" 250w sub. Should kick ass, especially when its behind the seat
I got an Audi A5 cabriolet. So space is extremely limited. Was thinking of doing a JL 13.5” shallow mount for infinite baffle on the trunk wall. Would that speaker work? Or would you recommend a non shallow mount for that purpose
JL have some of the highest quality car audio subs. From what you're describing you're best off going with a subwoofer with a Qts ranging from 0.6 to 0.7. Most subwoofers tend to have a Qts from 0.3 to 0.5, so might require some hunting, though in essence since the enclosure is so large its not providing much damping on the driver, so its up to the drivers suspension to do it itself.
High excursion is ideal, as once again with low damping the driver tends to move quite a bit at low frequencies. So low profile might not be ideal.
The shallow mount driver you linked wouldn't do too bad a job, but its Qts is a tad lower than ideal at 0.45. I can't think of an ideal driver off the top of my head, though I'll do a quick bit of research and come back if I find anything decent.
I had a quick look, I found the Dayton Ultimax 12" seems to have decent specs, and should sound good. It is quite deep though.
www.daytonaudio.com/product/1118/um12-22-12-ultimax-dvc-subwoofer-2-ohm-per-coil
If you're looking for shallow mount, Rockford Fosgate has a shallow 12" with Qts of 0.66 which should do quite well
www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/details/r2sd2-12/
What is your opinion on kicker L7 q, was thinking of going two 8 instead of my single 10inch
very cool drivers, I wasn't originally a fan of square drivers due to extra stress in the corners
2 8's look like they'll get louder around the 50-60Hz mark, though don't go as low, so it's up to you
Dakoustics , can you tune a 8 down to 33hz in a ported box would you happen to know the size of the box cheers
Great job on your videos actually explaining everything in fantastic detail
Good video. DD makes some serious subwoofers.
If you have a subwoofer box with two drivers, is it better to have them in dual sealed chambers or one non divided chamber?
There's no practical difference, but if you imagine a box with a wall in the middle, it acts like good bracing. Also, if one driver blows the other one will continue working as if nothing happened.
Thanks !
Lot of times you can squeeze four 10" woofers in a box size that is compatible to what is needed for a 15". That is 1400sd for four 10" vs 850sd for the 15"
Dang near two 15" woofers worth of cone area.
Yeah I have one 15" now in 4.23 cubic feet ported. Thinking about getting 4 10s ported instead.
@@Luminous.Dynamics Those 4 10"s would hit hard.
@@lloydhudson6463
I wanna do that but already bought a ZV5 15, and Im not sure how much louder 4 Sundown U10s might be. If noticeably louder on same 5K amp, maybe it's worth it huh ?
@@Luminous.Dynamics Well, if you already bought the 15, just add another one, lol
I have a question I have a 188 watt amp laying around from a Logitech z5500 with the sub 10 inch and a z906 sub 8 inch I also have another 4 channel amp 4x40 what should I do but them both on the 188 amp or put the 10 inch on the 188 watt amp and the 8inch on the 40 watt amp?
Better to have them on different amplifiers, if the 4x40w amp can be bridged to give the 8" 80w even better!
@@Dakoustics how do I know it can?
Mostly depends on what sound you want. I have two 10" subs and an 8" sub in my car to get just the sound I want. Smaller subs gives a sharper/punchier bass while larger gives lower and more "vibrating"?
Not necessarily true.
Vibrating is a result of bad adjustments mostly higher gain, lot of guys don't know that amp's knobs complement each other, if you add something, you might wanna reduce the other. Fact is you need to understand what responce you get from turning each amp knobs clockwise or anti-clockwise, ironically the knob's numbers aren't important since how good it sounds depends on the subwoofer's response. This is a complex skill but your can achieve through experimenting and that takes time period. There's all kinds of info on audio but it a complete story as soon you have everything connected and running
Once you understand the feedback of amps knobs and adjusting; assuming you built a right box with reliable components you can safely push any subwoofer close to it's limit without distorting. I'm currently running 1 good 12'' for a reason but has experimented with many subs, 2 10's, 12's and 15's and most people think I'm running 2x12" and they are even SHOCKED to see how low I have my gain set
Why not recommended for a ported box?
The JL AUDIO 8W7AE-3 driver has Qes 0.654 and EBP 53.8 both of which suggest to use a sealed box.
When I design a ported box for this driver in WinISD it shows much better low-frequency responses over the sealed one. Can you tell me why specifically is it not recommended for a ported box?
What's behind those two formulas?
WinISD shows that both a 25L sealed box and a 50L ported one can handle the recommended 500W RMS with HPF but the ported has so much more lows and the same SPL output across the fq response. If I don't take the obvious aspects such as group delays in considerations, why is this woofer not recommended for the port? Port dia 8cm 51cm length is doable and 22m/s wind velocity is kinda still tolerable. Port tuning 23Hz.
What am I missing here? Thank you.
What is the relationship between the number of drivers and power needed? Say you have a shit ton of money and willing to spend it. And you have a 1200w (8 ohm) amplifier. How would 4 drivers compare to 2 drivers (all the same type). Or would the amplifier not be able to drive that?
Thanks for the video İt is a very good topic to learn about. what if both speakers were using the same size box with passive radiator! I think it will be cool to compare.
In my head 2 12’s that are 250rms won’t be as loud as 1 8inch that handles 1k rms. Am I wrong? Bc my 2 RF shallow 12’s are 250 rms and my old single 10inch sub which ran 1500 rms hit so much harder and deeper. Am I right?
It does depend on the box a bit, but in general, yes. The single 18 on more power will do much better than 2 12s on half its power total. Similarly, 2 12s may use a 2 cu ft box, and 1 18 more like a 4 cu ft box.
The 2 12s compared with 1 10 gets a bit hairy. It should end up being around 3-4dB less efficient, but its also on 3-4dB more power, so should be similar depending on tuning etc. If it's 2 shallow 12s in a small box compared with a single 10", high excursion big motor sub in its perfect box, it could be above the 12s by 3dB or more.
Dakoustics that was fast man thanks. I was meaning 1 8 inch like one single hi excursion hi power 8inch vs those shallow low power 12s but I think it’s the same as you were saying with 1 hi output 10 vs 2 low watt 12’s. Thank you so much man I appreciate it
@@jesp5842 Yeah, its more or less the same, tricky though to get it quite right. At that high wattage, subs often need small boxes to control their excursion, though small boxes tend to be less efficient. You'd need a mighty 8" sub. Could also consider something like a 6th order to get the most out of it. 6dB less efficient, 3dB more power if at 1k, so 6th order might be required to get that extra 3dB on top to come out equal. Box will still be smaller than the 2 12s.
ive got one nightshade 18 inch sub ported in my blazer in a huge box and im tired of it,it hits super low but im tired of the ghetto box,so im going back to two 12's the x series. now if i had the money it would for sure be two NSV5 12'S for the win,best subs ever made.but i dont have the money for two of those.plus a huge amp to run them.2 x12's do just fine,hell one does damn good lol
Good stuff 👍👍👍
I would recommend 1 big sub all day, its the best performance. Quality over quantity. But if you have a more unique sub space and it is more long that cubic then i would suggest 2 or more small subs. It really just depends on the box, the eq, the room, and the space.
Dual subs is almost always better than one big one. Running dual subs will reduce peaks and nulls, localisation smoother bass respond more head room.
So you’re wrong when you say ‘quality over quantity’
Have you had a listen to one bigger sub vs smaller dual subs? There definitely are pros and cons but believe me running dual is a much better experience it’s directional you can place the subs in different areas where one big sub you can’t
@@amin4006 Depends on the sub(s) man.
@@sagered8007 that’s true, you need to compare apples with apples. Lets say dual 10” rel vs one 12” rel you will get a better experience with the dual 10”
Im currently running dual svs sb1000pro and I can tell you it’s a far better experience than one sb2000pro
@@amin4006 I don't doubt dual 10" is better than a single 12". But i bet that dual 5" isn't better than a single 10". And when i made this comment i was talking about having multiple drivers in a single box. Just realized that could cause confusion. Look at the thumbnail of the vid.
@@sagered8007 Fair enough man, in that case I would rather one big driver in a single box too
I am missing goup delay and phase in this video. Close enclosures have there benifit there however to the cost of max spl
Lower group delay on sealed enclosures:
media.discordapp.net/attachments/341540422566281216/632789649449943042/2.PNG?width=939&height=554
Also no phase flipping:
media.discordapp.net/attachments/341540422566281216/632789655347134465/1.PNG?width=932&height=553
Well for me both has an advantage & disadvantages , but for me two still better than one
Hello friends, I have a question that you recommend to buy 2 6-inch woofer 90 RMS 96db or launch 8-inch 300 RMS 88db with a Kenwood 170 RMS for a 6.5-inch sealed midrange
Hope you went with the 8"
for music I think two fast small subs are better than one bigger/slower one. For HT in the other hand, the bigger the better.
There is no such thing as fast or slow subs baised on size. Even though the cone is heavier, it only moves half as far. In boxes designed to the same QTS, they sound the same, even in fast music.
Can someone tell from a distance the bass out put from a single or double bass
I listen to this before I go to sleep every night...his voice is just so soothing
Ah a regular! Cheers for contributing to my view counter, and in turn my bottom line.
Oh .. and then there is the important (or not so important) speed of the drivers and enclosure. All ported enclosures are 'slower' then a sealed one. In a ported speaker some of the waves being reflected inside the enclosure until they leave. That gives you a kind of 'blurry' sub. The bigger a speaker the more mass the coils have to handle and the slower the response of the speaker. That effect is not as big as the difference between seeled or poeted enclosure but one of the reasons why you don't see any 21" bass guitar amps.
How can i contact u i desperately need help regarding a project
Also one 1000rms or two 500 rms each.which is better?
Great video. I went from 2 scar audio ix8's to 2 vvx8's in the exact same small'ish box (bazooka tubes) I want to say the ix8's got a I little bit lower in the freq range than the vvx8's. I'm thinking the enclosure was closer to ix specs than the vvx. The vvx' splay louder but it seems the ix had lower extension
sell those and buy one jl audio w7-8. I bet its louder and cleaner and hit really low.
@@jondoe6618 not enough room. Standard cab toyota truck
@@A8vscRrabbit Ah I hear ya there.
I have mine in 1.30 cubes pr . Hits down to 30 befor it bottoms out
@@jondoe6618 no disrespect but jl is way over priced.
OKAY, I would like to ask something from you. I chose a 4" driver for my next project for midrange. The design would be a classic approach, small driver in a very little closed box within the main cabinet. The driver is designed mainly to be a dedicated midrange driver, HOWEVER, the calculated EBP number is over 180 (Fs=63,5; Qes=0,35). So, am I "forced" to use this driver in a ported box?
I have two 15s. They want 3.5 cubiicft each.
Rn they in a dual box with like 1.2cubic ft each.
I'm thinking about removing one and removing the divider so that I can run a single sub with proper air space; instead of what I got now, two subs both smothered
No one knows more about this stuff than Steve Meade. If you wanna learn all the technical stuff with subwoofers and amplifiers go check out Steve Meade's page. He pulls up in McDonald's drive-throughs and and cranks's his 60,000 watt system and shakes the building because he's cool.
Look at it like this
Is 1000watts louder on 2 12" or 1 15"? In my opinion, the 12s divide the 1000watts so their only getting 500 watts each but the 15" seeing the entire wattage so it louder than the 12s because it playing at optimal volume ...
@Mr. Happy can you tell me more details about what you're trying to do because I still have this crazy idea of installing a single 18 in my Honda Accord but my idea was to fire the sub down towards the spare wheel well, port to the side. (Spare tire well which of course wouldn't have the spare in it)
Currently just have a single 15 on 2K but a single 18 interests me
What can't HS math be this fun !!!
I'd like to see a test a 15 inch Sub in a sealed box with like a 18 inch Passive Radiator. Or two 10 inch subs and a 15 inch Passive radiator.
Personally i feel 2 drivers is better but a single can be great but i feel like 2 coils vs 1 coil being powered is better but its mostly my personal preference
How to making inside supwoofer box(12") dimensions???
Hard to describe, I'll make a video on how to design a box eventially, but for now there should be other peoples videos with good information.
What is the website?
my QTS IS 0.391 is this a lot of air space?
Probably not, but check WinISD. Higher QTS often means bigger box, 0.391 is low-ish.
in simulation, 2 driver in serial or parallel? Thank you?
This one is 2 drivers parallel, I'll do 2 drivers series soon as I'm on break from uni.
Thank you, you are great ! :d
Two gives you more flexibility in box dimensions, because you can have opposed, side by side, etc
I like 2 subs if the room permits it. I'm more into SQ and I like running a 2 channel to the subs,for stereo separation. I know a lot of head units have mono sub outputs,so I would opt to use the rear RCAs in that case. Before anyone says anything,I know that a lot of the bass in music is mixed stereo and doesn't usually pan,but there are some songs now and then that do pan the bass and it just sounds better IMO. Plus you have more wiring options,with more coils.
Sound localization is done through Time Differences (phase shift - frequency arives at one ear slightly earlier than on the other one) and Level Differences (volume - frequency arrives at one ear slightly louder than on the other)
So, i'm Just sayin, for human hearing frequencies below 800 Hz already get difficult to locate since below that only time differences get recognized. Level differences are difflicult to detect and get even more difficult to detect the lower you go. Anything below 80 Hz of frequency is next to impossible to locate since both time differences aswell as level differences can't be detected properly anymore. Same as above, the lower the frequency the harder it gets. Thats why next to no one bothers playing with more than one sub and why subs are placed basically "wherever is proper space". So doing stereo separation for subs is rather unnecessary unless the crossover frequency is higher than, lets say 80Hz and your hearing is prime.
But 2 subs are always better than 1 in terms of power and fun :)
4 12s or two 15s ?
Good question! If you wanna hit 25hz I guess one, for balance I guess 2! I think for listening to just music 1 but for home theater separation is nice - maybe just 2 biggins! 😂
PS - and I like how some were able to emulate your setup and comment on it after 60 seconds! Resourceful !!! 🤣😅
whats louder 3 tens or one 15
Sealed largersub Sd × xmax f3 ? spl level???
Ported smallsub x2 sd x xmax x 2 x 2 f3? tuningfrequency? spl level???
So, I should add a fourth JL 12w7 to my Camry, instead of putting the 3 JL 13.5W7s in my Camry.
Thanks for the update.
I prefer 1 large sub in a ported box over 2 small subs in a sealed enclosure. A 12 inch sub is going to have a deeper fuller sounding bass than a 10 inch sub.
Very Good!..
The Sundown SA V3 8" Subs hit pretty hard and the Sundown X v3 8"s also do. I got both sets of those and I got a Sundown X v2 15" which I was running in my VW CC and I had two Skar DDX 15s in my truck.. but I pulled em and now using my 8"s and those 8"s are no joke. Sundown makes amazing 8"s.. I dunno how good the E series are but a single SA 8" does a 147 DB sealed 149.9 with the door open. The Xv3 8" does a 153 or 156. You can watch it happen on Sundowns youtube. And owning them I can tell ya they deff can hang with bigger subs easily
Thank
Big drivers face some problems though that Winisd doesn't simulate. The cone is mich harder to control due to the high mass. Also, it doesn't move coherently. The outer part of a large cone lags behind a bit, causing additional group delay.
How much this actually matters is up for debate. But can imagine a cone with 1m diameter or more to be wobbly, so there are some limitations to practical woofer size
Yes, extra motor force per area manifests itself as the driver being able to overcome the higher pressures of a smaller enclosure. Trying to minimise diaphragm mass is a battle, especially considering higher power voice coils, and optimising parameters for smaller enclosures.
Also, in regards to the edge lagging behind, the ribs/concentric circles seen in the cones of some PA speakers and guitar speakers are designed to do exactly that. Low frequencies make their way outward, maximising area, though high frequencies don't. This avoids the issue of "beaming", where high frequencies are only audible directly in front of the cone. Adding the ripples improves midrange of such speakers.
I’m trying to build a box for two sdr 12’s for the most lows any suggestions? They are on a rp-1500 at two ohms
One front firing, two side passive radiator’s.
Thats funny you say this. I have a Kicker Comp Rt 12 Encloser W passive radiator and a 1 10 Comp Vr sealed. its slamming
I used to be a fan of one big sub in a box, but since I bought one with 4 18's in one box I realized that the old saying is true. There isn't a replacement for displacement.
very true
How about 2 × 21" 1000w rms VS 1 x 21" 2000w rms?
The smallest I would go is a 10 anything smaller kinda sucks.
Smaller cones less flex and distortion
More coils maybe more heat dissipation too
Smaller cone - higher Fs, and higher rolloff, doesn’t dig as low as loud, very precise cone control and therefore bass
Bigger cone - lower Fs, much smaller low end rolloff, digs low loud, utilizes a larger and heavier cone resulting in less precise bass and muddier higher bass.
I prefer both.
2 SA6.5’s, 1 SA12 classic. Matching sundown amps relative to each’s RMS, Spec built boxes. I’m more than happy, setup for SQ.
Two 10inch subwoofers with a 700.1 amplifier ... that's all you need ...
Depends. I have 2 15" subs. Bangs hard. But I want more lol
@ThaReal CLotwo rockford P3 15" pushed by an oldskool Rockford 801s.
I have them wired to 8ohms in a ported box.
Plus my trunk is pretty big. 94 caddi DeVille
@ThaReal CLo Rockford 801s is a cheater amp. Bangs way harder than listed
Back in the late 80's, I had two 10 inch Kickers with a Sherwood 280 amp and a Leo's house brand stereo in my VW Bug. I really miss that set up.
@@JERRYR708 lmao!!! Whatcha know bout that Sherwood power?!?! Lol. My buddy had that 240 on some 15 inch Super Blue Pyramids lol. That setup quaked!
I have 4 🔊🔊🔊🔊American bass xd15s in two slotted box’s stacked directly behind driver seat on my 2 door jimmy
So I have to ask, where does your knowledge come from? Is it just messing round with speakers or are you using what the program tells you. Cus I used winisd for my last build and it lied to me. Made a box for 6.5 in that it suggested ported 2cuft for but omg it sounded like crap. I rebuild the box from 2cuft to 0.75cuft and removed the port and now they shine in the low end. In fact it seems to be very hit or miss when it comes to winisd. I used the Dayton Audio DATS v2 cus you cant trust cheap woofers to have an accurate list of Thiele-small parameters. So I know I was using good data when doing the box simulation.
Knowledge came from studying, books, websites, mucking around in winISD, also even highschool and uni physics. A big source too of general knowledge came from youtube, there are nuggests around and if you watch enough. Guys like HexiBase and EMF audio have some great videos. WinISD can get things wrong, often it'll output super peaky results for high Q low vas drivers. I'd say it's accurate for a specific middle range of drivers, but yeah no way a 6.5 should be in a 2 cube box. That's what I put 12's in. Also how did you use the DATS v2? thinking of getting one, did you use added mass, or specific airspace?
@@Dakoustics On the 2cuft box those were the parameters that came with the woofers, and I used DATS to get the real parameters.
On DATS its petty easy plug it into a pc then hook it up to the speaker and use the software to do frequency sweep and you get all the info on the driver. Its a nice little tool and will soon pay for its self in time saved. They current have V3 of DATS either shipping or will be soon. Tho it did go up $20 for V3.
I'm still fairy new to working out the magic of Thiele-small parameters, HexiBase has been a big help in working out where I went wrong with the 6.5 inch woofers. That being said, in the past winISD has done very good on some 10 inch and 12 inch sub boxes.
I have also found that with most builds (not all) you can get better bass with polyfill in most sealed and some ported boxes. The stuff sold as filling for art projects seems to work just as good as the high dollar stuff you can get from places like Parts Express.
Here is the video on DATS this is the V1 and the V2, V3 are most just more robust with added accuracy. th-cam.com/video/dARRX-tZpg4/w-d-xo.html
@@99Duds V3 looks good, I'll get it if it gets a good review. I'm currently building a sealed box for a mate, and didn't put polyfil in it before essentially glueing the sub in, but due to its geometry it doesn't seem to have any higher resonance, at least not at the woofer frequencies. The horn however has an awful resonance at around 200Hz due to the driver being mounted into essentially an echo chamber. Geometry matters. Also I'll do a Thiele-Small video at some point,
It’s simple Small subs are for the driver and passengers and large ones are for people inside and outside the car.
Not that simple man I've had single 10 inch subs make the neighbors complain. One 10" on 1200w rms was plenty loud outside
I've got one DD 508d on 400 watts, ported box built to spec (from DD), in my Dodge Magnum. Sub up.. port firing back on the passenger side of trunk. If my windows are down my neighborhood gets irritated 😂. I'm not saying it's ridiculously loud, I've had that before, but I'm very happy with the balance of my system. But I'm even more impressed by the sub. One day I'll probably add one more on the other side of the trunk. But that WILL be the for me when I'm alone. Noone likes it when I turn it up they say it's too much. Lol
I've got 4 Lanzar 18" subwoofers, driven by a Pioneer DEH-X7800BHS head unit.
Any one have a link to some royalty free music with bass in it.
I'll make a video.
I don't really know of any, there are channels which make decaf, some remixes are still detected but i suppose with proper crediting you'd be able to use a small producer, also if you get their permission, the hunt could be irritating though
@@Dakoustics I think TH-cam has some "stock" music I can use. I'll do some Googling to find it.
@@stevenon5664 there is NCS, or non-copyright songs, not sure if they've got much bass bass though
@@Dakoustics I just found this: th-cam.com/users/audiolibrarymusic?ar=1571502060021&nv=1
A whole video dedicated to what you’re trying to achieve complete with them lows 😁 th-cam.com/video/rZRSNduLRV8/w-d-xo.html
Seems like most people aren't factoring in space and power availability/limitations. Then you have listening volume and quality. I had to make the same decision with my wife's subwoofer(s). Once she heard the difference and saw how much space was lost from the enclosure, she made her decision. All these technical specs didn't matter to her. The listening experience determined her choice. It's much like asking "which penis size do you prefer?"
I like to get a good 100hz or less I run 2 8s ported in a hatchback cleanest sounding bass I've found
I don't know what you are trying to say
@@Luminous.Dynamics its a old comment allot has changed i wasn't exactly experienced yet but i was referring to liking my sq build over a few spl builds my friends had at the time i personally don't care anymore about what you run as long as it properly powered not starving for watts hopefully that clears that up man
Or 2 big ones vs 2 massive ones .👍👍🤣
What's the computer program called that your using? It's hard for me to understand your accent sorry.
WinISD is the box modelling program he used
He's using Win ISD. I'm going to try and find it now.
Thanks
You can’t understand Australian, Kiwi or South African. Sounds like South African to me. I could be wrong and have deeply offended the narrator. Please accept my apology, if I did offend you.
Can't understand an Australian man?
Speaker resonance has very little to do with diameter. I think probably smaller speakers are not intended to play Loud bass and therefore don't need a low FS so why bother if you don't also have extended Excursion?
Could you give the website where you can download the program?
WinISD: www.linearteam.org/
So what's better 2 15s or 4 12s??
4 12's if space is not an issue... more surface area
I'd say 2 15s in a huge box opposed to 4 12s, but if you've got a ton of space to give them all enough room I guess 4 12s might be better. But most of the time I'd say 2 15s will be the better choice.
@Uncle Scam not necessarily, you could get lower with 2 15s in a huge box. 4 12s would require more space to get the right box volume.
@Uncle Scam it makes perfect sense.
@Uncle Scam but it's all relative to the equipment and the vehicle. So either could end up sounding better. Most people would be more impressed with 2 15s with a lot of volume though. But if you've got the space 4 12s would sound great too. It's all relative. On average I'm more impressed with a couple larger woofers. But that's just my opinion man.
My friend had 1 sub. Not sure what size, how many watt rms, or brand. He had it in a dodge ram 1500 , and that sub was pounding and punching air straight out of your chest. And I loved it !!!! I wish I would've asked questions about what brand and size he had. I want one that punches your chest that way !! Don't know how to get it though
Box was probably just tuned high to enhance the kick drum frequency
@@jase1911 how would you do that? He had a sealed box. It could've been a 12' or 15' it wasn't that big but it was a monster !
🤔 Two Large One 👍