4th Order VS 6th Order subwoofer Enclosures
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มี.ค. 2019
- In this video I talk about 4th and 6th order bandpass subwoofer enclosures, how they work, and provide information to help you decide which one to build.
TIMESTAMPS FOR THE IMPATIENT
4th Orders: 3:57
6th Orders: 6:59
Similarities: 11:13
Conclusion: 14:02
5th Order Video (watch from timestamp):
• 5 Enclosures You've Ne... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I think I understand 4th and 6th order but my woofers are haven't arrived yet so I would classify them as "still on order".
Second order is when you blow the first pair ,6th order they decide for you that just not your game and block your #. Bear with me it's 4am lol
😂😂😂
I made a 16x subs band pass wall that I used for large outdoor events, it was the only thing that could evenly produce loud subsonic frequencies outdoors. This was before computer software calculations, all ear-tuned using oscilloscope, playing frequency by frequency 10hz all the way to 120hz, a lot of time real life tuning and AMAZING results. I started with 4th order then moved on to 6th order in series and parallel. 6th order is by far the BEST, most powerful and trickier design but computer software helps a lot nowadays. I had my subs tuned rear 22hz front 45hz and it was a MONSTER in subsonic frequencies, could barely hear over 80hz but I had other full-range speakers with woofers covering from that above. Also I could pump 3x the rates power without exploding the subs as the cone displacement is controlled by the port’s limits.
awesome, it's funny to see how just recently companies have started making 6th order PA subs, true innovation starts with people
Well if your subs are as powerful as your electric bikes then I've gotta hear a video of that with a good mic.
@@Dakoustics Bose have been using 6th order for years.
Acoustimass had like a 4th order firing into a 6h order lol #Bose
Great bit on sub boxes. People new to lower frequency audio AND those with intermediate knowledge can take as little or as much information as they want from this video. VERY clear and direct information sprinkled with a bit of personal experience from yourself make this one of the best, most detailed explanations of how bandpass works and it's delivered with a lot of technical specifications while also being simple enough for those who don't have an engineering degree to understand. Bravo and thank you for this. You have gained a subscriber from me.
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great video! very informative and really helped breakdown the differences.
So glad you included the graphs! Love the data to back up the theory
Modelling a 6th order parallel bandpass I have found that it is best to start off by designing a vented box which is slightly bigger and has what is called the chebychev response. There should be a bit of a peak around tuning and a couple of dB dip in the centre of the range. A driver with an EBP (FS divided by Qes) of between 100 and 120 for tunings in the 35 to 40 Hz range and lower if you want to tune lower. Once this is set up on the simulator (I use hornresp) the second chamber should be around half the size and tuned twice as high.
If the lower tuned portion is about a third larger than a flat vented box (so the total can is about twice the volume) then you will get a flat response but if you go a bit smaller you will have a slight rising response which is okay to save space in a car and will level out with cabin gain.
Thomas Jester Tarulli of team orion has/had a (6) 15" sub system in a 6th order that is very high output with a wide frequency response. It's quite legendary his performance. His set up is 1:1 and tuned at 25 and 50hz. As always it seems it's about trial and error as each car/home is so different.
Hey man I appreciate this video's explication of the 4 th order & 6 th order keep the good video coming.
Just in case you missed this:
Audio Dynamics SoundVlog - Counting Enclosure Orders - th-cam.com/video/41hDRYpZMME/w-d-xo.html
5 Enclosures You've Never Heard Of - th-cam.com/video/CZaRQT3Rvaw/w-d-xo.html
one of the most interesting videos i ve ever seen !!!
Your videos are great-the best !!! Thank you for sharing your Knowledge.
Glad I could be of service, enjoy!
You helped make my mind what style box to build. I’m doing 3 4ohm dvc.15 Skar DDX 6th order 25hz and 50hz with a sundown salt 4k at .67 ohm. With some lithium and a 350 amp alternator to Supply the juice. Should wake those subs up nicely. I can’t wait
Thanks helped me understand more about Qts and 4th order. I'm working on a 4th order for a JL 12W6 for fun!
How did your build turn out? If it’s monstrous I’ll put the same in my civic.
@@Ichabod_Jericho I scrapped it and went a massive audio 12. It can handle more power and hit way harder deeper bass. Sold that W6.
adaboy4z I knew it! Part of me wants to go JL, part of me knew big brand names have cheaped out
@@Ichabod_Jericho Don't get me wrong that JL W6 is a beast on 600 watts but there are better subs for cheaper and can handle more power. I already had a Kicker KXA800.1 amp and a Kicker KX1200.1 so it was natural to use that power!!!
Great video mate, very informative. Thanks for taking the time to make this help me a lot, cheers 👍
I built a 1:3 6th order bandpass with dual12s in an isobaric arrangement for my cousin's 1990 VW Corrado back in the mid nineties. That thing was ridiculous in the amount of output you could get out of it in such a small car. 130 dB or so if I remember correctly The 1:3 ratio also created an interesting big box on the bottom, small box on top sort of shape that gave me room to integrate an amplifier rack for the two Soundstream Reference 500s into one side of the top for a nice clean install. Took a while to figure out how to package it all into the small trunk and still leave some luggage room, and the final design literally came to me in a dream, the only time that has ever happened in my life. It wasn't the most audiophile solution I have ever come across, but it actually sounded cleaner than I would have guessed going in. Was difficult to balance the sound though, as the sub seem to be WAY more efficient than the front stage. Unfortunately some thieves took advantage of the clever packaging and made off with the whole thing after smashing the rear glass a few years later.
Yeah, car audio is a popular target for thieves. The 6th in my trunk would likely but a thiefs back out, and the amps are under it. Kind of bitter sweet, half the reason I'm into audio is because of the 15" sub my brother gave me, which was the only audio component from his car which wasn't taken.
@@Dakoustics Yeah, there were certainly more than one of them when they hit my cousin's car. You would have to be one of those world's strongest man types to make off with a large, awkwardly shaped object weighing roughly 150 lbs on your own. :) He actually found out who it was through the grapevine on his college campus, and there were three of them if I remember correctly. Couldn't prove it unfortunately though.
Amazing video and EXCELLENT THEORY👌🏾👌🏾👌🏾👏🏾🔥
6th best
Lots of info here. Good pace..well spoken
Cheers!
Bro your content is so informative that I feel very dom 😂😂
Excellent work 👍
this video helps a lot !!! thanks for the explanation !!!
Audio Dynamics SoundVlog - Counting Enclosure Orders - th-cam.com/video/41hDRYpZMME/w-d-xo.html 5 Enclosures You've Never Heard Of - th-cam.com/video/CZaRQT3Rvaw/w-d-xo.html
I like your video, wish you would do more multi- sub videos, they are always hard to predict because of cancellations of the waves 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Solid video, helped a lot. Thanks!👌
Hey bro! It was a great video. Helpful content. I was looking for this type of review.
Very nicely explained! Tank you :)
Audio Dynamics SoundVlog - Counting Enclosure Orders - th-cam.com/video/41hDRYpZMME/w-d-xo.html 5 Enclosures You've Never Heard Of - th-cam.com/video/CZaRQT3Rvaw/w-d-xo.html
Thank u for all this...now i know why guys can get that heavy lows
Amazing video!
great explaination, subscribed
I'm debating a 6th or a 4th. Really good info on the 6th Order enclosure.
Will never go back
@@robertkurtz7587 From a 4th or 6th?
Thanks for the learning!
Thank you, excellent explanatio video
Nice video 👍 good explanation
And that's what I call an informative video!
Really good video!
Awesome video! Thanks!
I had a single 12 Orion XTR in a 6th order box in the early 90’s, it was ridiculously loud. Everyone swore I had more than 1 sub. Sound was sorta boomy.
I have 4th, and happy.
Hi, amazing information.
Can you please suggest me the best ratio for 4th order bandpass, and the best 10 in subwoofer for 4th order bandpass, please reply.
Absolutely amazing video. Honestly, you helped making the super technical details understandable.
I have a question for you. I am more focused on SQ than SPL. I have been seeing a lot about IB setups and the level of lows and spacial presence that are achievable. I am considering a project vehicle that runs a front sub (likely 10 inch single centered or dual 8 inch sealed in the doors) which would be effective from about 150Hz down to 50 or 60 Hz. Of course with SQ getting the most balanced freq response at the cleanest highest levels is best, so, what would you suggest for the rear of the vehicle (most likely large SUV like a Land Cruiser or Toyota Sequoia) to pick up those missing low freqs? IB has is own unique challenges and requires serious modifications but can fill the listening space with sound like no other setup. Is there a 4th order or 6th order setup which can achieve similar levels of presence while not requiring the same level of modification as IB? I have also considered Isobaric as a solution to keep the enclosure size down but i don't know if that is still viable with todays tech.
Tline box for the win!
Great ideas. thanks
I’ve seen dual 18” 6th order pro audio subs that contain 2 drivers facing each other in a sort of “loading wall” like you show here. Basically, there’s a port on each side, then this big open almost horn-like mouth in the middle. (It slightly tapers out, but I wouldn’t consider it a horn.) That design has the most SPL of any subwoofer I’ve heard.
Oh and thank you for exposing for others about inefficient designs and tuning build heat wish causes catastrophic failure due to coil heat. I've been there. And taught myself
Bandpass subs are known to be bad because of bad designs and lack of understanding from the user.
Check out the "STM S118 SUB" it is a pro audio bandpass sub intended for most demanding concerts and festivals. When bandpass subs are designed by professionals and used by engineers, bandpass designs are very powerful and accurate desings.
Ole Kristian Rannekleiv c
Subscribed Great content!
Great video! Although, was the audio very choppy in this video?
wow awesome video
Excelent 👍
Hey Dak, just for information purposes, if doing a 6th order series port, can you have the same size port for both the low side and the high side? lets just say 30hz with a 40sq inchs of port and 65hz high side with the same port size. 4cubic low side 1.25cubic high side, net.
will there be any complications with this scenario? winisd gave off some pretty solid responses, but im looking at a theoretical response for reference to my simulated design.
great videos again. keep it up
+Dakchen Games @Dakchen Games I actually have a 6th order parallel bandpass with a Sundown Audio Ev2-12 which is really good for a hi fi or home cinema set up the motor design is really good you don’t have to worry about the voice coil bottoming out
Which is good for a person to buy a 1st subwoofer and dose not have to worry about the power used because of the non bottoming out and the subwoofer is underrated it’s raited at 500wrns put it been getting 750wrms clean power don’t worry Brian chamberlain told me it’s ok to run it at 750wrms just don’t go much above 750wrms
The enclosure top end has 75.5L and tuned at 50hz and bottom end has 50L and tuned at 26hz
I’m running the subwoofer with a INuke 1000DSP with a WRMS limit to 760WRMS
Bridge it also has active crossover at 80hz
And a active EQ set from 90hz to 10hz on a 18db bandpass roll off why 90hz because of the deeper roll off I wanted the 80hz louder compared to the EQ set at 80hz the 10hz rolls off to around 5hz at the bottom of the curve
I hear the beams in the roof vibrate at around 30hz and so does my next doors windows lol
It’s really good to listen to music with it even better watching movies I’ve owned subwoofers before but nothing like this.
Very informative! Can I ask what software you use? It looks more user friendly than what I have.
WinISD
@@Dakoustics for designing a 4th or 6th for my Morel Ultimo SC 122. I'd like mainly 16-20 hz tune. Thanks brother, very informative video.
Great vid... bro
2 woofers I like are the Dayton dcs255 and the DC audio level 1 12". Both model almost identically. The dcs255 is a reasonably efficient 10" and the DC 12" is a high xmax 12".
I built a 60L bandpass for the Dayton, I tuned high in a 4th order, people forget how much bass is above 50hz sometimes. It sounds beautiful and above 40hz its way more efficient than my nvx vcw15 in a 180L ported box. Above 40hz my nvx build needs about 10x the power to match its output. But the bandpass falls on its face below 40hz at high volume. I'm planning on using the DC in a future built with its 19mm xmax.
Hello thanks for the videos.
I'm looking for opinions for 15" memphis MOJO box.
I'm thinking 3rd or 4th order
Nice vid. I know how to build my next 4th order, I traded mine yesterday. Will be putting two dead game audio 15's 💪in...
I personally use a compact chamber almost the same size as the subwoofer itself but with a very long port tube (4" diameter x 90" long Approx. in my vehicle). Goes down to 10hz loudly. :)
BASSN SANE
I always tell people that the vids do not do justice to the sound. But I do have a few pictures on Facebook of it.
Id love to hear that design
That makes a very inefficient enclosure for reproducing lows that anybody would consider loud...... I did the basic math on it assuming you used .1-.2 of a cube, with your suggested port length the tuning would be entirely too high to effectively play 10hz without sounding like a wet fart and unloading the sub so "I will take things that didnt happen for $600, Alex"
@@zacharyhafer2806
With all due respect, if the enclosure was so bad I would not make it in the first place; in fact it’s my favorite enclosure for playing infrasonics which is what it’s mainly designed for.
“I will educate those who have no experience for $1000 Alex”.
Here’s a video.
th-cam.com/video/NeSC0C1R6tc/w-d-xo.html
Hey @Dakoustics ! i was trying to understand more about the formula for the loading wall, im trying to make a 6th order with so called "loading wall" as you show it briefly in the video, but i was curious, where do you get the 330 from, is it the lower chamber volume for the 18, cone diameter?
I have a ported box tuned at 34 around 4.5cuft but barely any songs get that low and everything above 40hz sounds super muddy and bad
Was thinking about just putting a sealed enclosure over the speaker and make a 4th order but might just cut the box and make it around 3cuft
Im thinking of building a 6th order parallel with a 1:3 ratio the rear chamber is 120L 35hz and the front is 40L 65hz with two TT technology tt12ex subs and it has a nice smooth from 40-68hz at 2.8db all the way before it starts to dip how do you think the cabin boost will effect it?
I curious to know if I can change my subs up/ports back BR box into a 6th order by adding a second chamber on top. My og box is 2.1cuft @35hz. I've modeled and built the top chamber and it's ready to go on. QUESTION ⁉️
Since my current box sounds best ports back, and the 2 chambers are essentially 180* out of phase with each other (right?).. could I face the port of the upper bass forward? Firing in the opposite direction of the lower bass ports?..or should I just go with the tried and true "all ports exiting the same direction" method?
Totally knowledge.
Hey just one question does it matter if you face the opening of the port directly in front of the subwoofer in a fourth order box?
In 4th order. Is there any difference in output on which side of the speaker is in the sealed chamber? I see some they install the speaker the magnets out.
for music 4 ordre no way superbe travail !!! bravo mais nous n avons pas le meme avis !
Any recomend for 12 inc bandpass 4th..tanks
So my question is what is best for 2 sundown zv6 d1 15s a 4th order or 6th order box with Size dimensions of the Box as a blowthrough build for a pickup truck?
The trick to getting good sound quality is the Way the speaker is Designed ✨️
Enlightened!
Understanding the driver's ts parameters,and what the values affect determines the direction in Wich is "best" for your application,there's allot misunderstood in the box decision for all speakers, I prefer to use speakers with high q values qtc qts etc, in a sixthorder bandpass, The bandwidth gain is phenomenal when designed correctly,and if you run them isobaric loaded, they can use a smaller enclosure
A series 6th order is similar to a tapped horn design.
I definitely subscribed, how much xmax one way would you consider 'high' xmax? I am thinking of making a 6x15" wall in a volkswagen caddy, with B2 audio Rage subs. Those subs have a QTS of 0.5 and 20mm xmax one way. 4th or 6th?
Kinda depends on how much space you have . If you wanna make the most of 6 subs on a 6th order you'll need a large enclosure not to choke them. If you don't have enough space, a 4th order is ideal. If you do, a 6th order is a good way to get the most out of a driver without going crazy. The difference could be 100L/sub 4th order, and 150L/sub 6th order.
Nice vid
Very Good!..
So for the 20hz the better option is the 1:3 enclosure right?
position of a box inside a vehicle adds to the ratio which i never find anyone seems to know about.
ex: speakers in a trunk try positioning the speakers towards the back horizontal about 6 inches away from the back vs turned around to the front.
I would guess that for music the lower order would be preferable. Ideally a sealed sub. The fourth order BP is probably better than the other fourth order box (bass reflex) due to not having to integrate the front wave.
In the example 1:1 6th order series port, how much in2 do you use for the ports?
Hey. Thanks for the video. Im from Melbourne. I built a portable boom box for the campsite, its got roughly 1000watts of low midrange and high, all 12v car audio, Focal and soundstream. 2x amps, and a 130Ah battery, It works really well, has reasonable volume, and keeps people happy. I want to make a version two, keeping all the same speakers, just improving on design and speaker efficiency. I can build almost anything, but when it comes to sound design response, I get lost in the technical, and fast! Which leads me to my question. Would you be interested in guiding me towards a well designed efficient enclosure for my woofers and midrange speakers I already own, which I can build? Thanks, Ryan
mids and highs would stay as is, hard to get more efficient without buying new components, and for sub I'd recommend a 4th, I've had good luck with 4th orders for outdoor PA, for a 12" something like 28L sealed, 28-40 ported, varies sub to sub. Tune it around 50-60Hz. Port should end up being 30x5cm, and about 25cm long, add a curve in the back, rounding over the front should help too, if it sounds bad just remove the middle baffle, and mount the sub like a standard ported box
Just a heads up guys: WinISD cannot simulate series tuned 6th orders.
What program do you recommend for series tuned 6th order?
@@BARBELLS-AND-BUDS you can check out bassbox pro 6
I have 2 soundqubed hds3 15s. What box would be recommended for them ? Also my gf has an 10in hds2.1 and I was also looking for custom box for it.
Question on doing a 6th order (might be a dumb questionoh well but here goes it anyway lol. Lets say you have this to work with D37"xW52"xH36" then you put a box on each side for D37"xW15"xH36" and port it at 26hz then it leaves D37"xW22"xH36" in the middle of both boxes do i use the D37"xW22"xH36" measurements to figure out the last port i want or the total dimensions? D37"xW52"xH36" that both boxes is in?
What is that box calculator you are using. im looking for an accurate one.
Hie please can you help me ...i have a kenwood wps1300d and i was thinking of putting it in a bandpass box .On its manual there is only two options thus sealed or ported...will it work well if i use the specs for the jbl p1220 bandpass box?
In series tuned 6th order, kniwing the front is tuned higher than the rear, It seems that the front port doesn't load below tuning, where the rear one does, so the lows is coming from the rear port. Correct?
Hi! I have a Magnat subwoofer (30cm) that I installed in a box thats very similar to the one at 4:02 (1:1). I made the box 15 years ago with no calculation or experience.
I don't use it in the car anymore, its connected to my home theater but its not performing well.
What type of box should I build?
I like the idea of a 5th order, so front of the driver is in a transmission line, and the rear of the driver is in a ported box, could be cool
Great work bro
Just built a 6th order bandpass i just notice its canceling lower frquencies then i try to sealed one port and i like the sound much more fuller sounds but still it have a downside when i play higher beats i cannot feel any impact the punchy hard bass
I got a sketch for a Series 6th Order enclosure… I noticed it had a port within the box, kinda interesting…
So having 4 18's in a 6th, what rear sq inches per cube is recommended?
I have ran the bigger port on the coil side which is the smallside 6th order
Can subs face the sealed portion of the box instead of the ported side
A real box builder!! Not these rip-off shops
Great vid, is there a way to model a 6th order series vs parallel because I don’t see that option in WinISD?
Reports say HornResp, but I haven't had a good enough dive into the program to work out how.
Bass Box Pro
Do you ever do box design services?
What about an enclosure that is a front loaded bass reflex with one woofer on each meeting side but where one side fires into a forth order chamber. Would that still be considered bandpass? Would it be like a 4.5 order?
Interesting. I've seen something which was a ported box, with speakers firing out, but also had speakers inside, so it kinda acted like a 4th order as well. I'm not sure what you'd call that, maybe a 4th quazi 6th series, as it kinda acts like a 4th and a 6th. But maybe since one is 2nd order and the other is 4th order, it averages out to 3rd order, so would in total be a 5th order. Yeah, an odd one certainly.
It's large the box ,one claimed to get 14 Herz with the Marty cube,are cars subwoofer drivers good for a home built,it's easy to find car subwoofer drivers but home it's a bit more difficult to find
You do excellent explaining I'm just dumb and can't seem to figure anything out I have a DC level 4 18" I listen to rock and EDM/rap I love feeling the kick drum can you please help me with some box dimensions I'll pay you please
4th order is suprisingly usefull. Good transients and good lows. Remember lpf, lot of times peoples forget that. Box don't need to be only lpf, and sub doesen't need to go high. I wouln't build 6th order to home system ever.
Imay have missed a point to be as loud as possible at 1 note. sorry.
I have a sundown x15 v.3 should I put that in a 4th or 6th order
From the specs on the website, if you've got the Dual 2 ohm, either, really up to you. If you've got the dual 4 Ohm, 4th order would be preferred, but still either or. They have a good multipurpose spec.
How much $ to design a 4th order bp for an 2017 mustang gt. Sub is sa10v2 1000 watt rms. Amp is a skar rp2000. I have 34" wide by 13" high and what ever the depth needs to be up to 24". Possibly a 6th order if there is room.
Nice but which one is good for outdoor big speaker party Box? 4th? or 6th?
I'd prefer a 6th.
Dont get fooled by the real life efficiency compared to the specified efficiencies. My 15" 1000w rms 88db efficient 3inch voicecoil sub is more efficient at 400watts than my 93db efficient 400w rms 12" pioneer, ALOT more bass, if I had to judge on my ears, 3-4times more. So only if you listen at low levels its better to get a high efficiency sub if all other parameters are the same.
which would give my the best low freq response while keeping a fairly wide frequency spectrum?
A 4th order. I have both and my 4th order is more musical and plays way deeper than my 6th. However my 6th does play louder at a narrow bandwidth so is good for spl.
Starting my journey into audio. What kind of classes would I look at to begin learning this stuff? Open to books worth reading but I have a hard time doing strictly online learning. I do better in person. Audio engineering is such a broad term. Is there anywhere to take courses to learn this?