The Problem With Small Subwoofers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ธ.ค. 2023
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The Problem With Small Subwoofers? They are SMALL! How do you get big bass out of a small subwoofer? In this video we talk about tuning a a Savard 6.5 to SMASH the lows!
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Awesome job of explaining things...just to bad some of the people commenting dont know the true meaning of audiophile...
it also depends on square footage of interior of vehicle,the natural resonant frequency of interior that you have to tune your port to.
i have 4 8" subs underseat front firing unobstructive sound & they sound way better tighter with low end extension custom ported box i made. than the 2 10s or 2 12s that i had before from "other" custom stereo shops & with more cone area i can hit as low as 1 15" sub even tho i have same cone area as 15" sub, that i cant put under my back seat & still carry 4 people with surround sound.
Thanks for having a great video that's not 25 minutes long.
Was running a 12” in my trunk and it was great to rattle everything on the outside of the car. Switched to an 8” mounted (in a custom box) to the underside of the rear shelf firing directly into the cabin. Sound is better both inside and out.
I really like to see how your delivery of the subject matter has improved over that last few years. Your knowledge and candor shine through more and more with each progressive video. Thanks for some great content!
Thanks!
Your videos amaze me every time! I struggle to figure out how to clearly explain a complex topics but you always explain it in such a easy to understand but yet still technical way. All this to say I learned a lot from this video and keep up the great work!
Sup Parker
When I started in the hobby in the 80’s I noticed that most sub manufacturers used the same basic motor assembly for their 8”, 10”, and 12” drivers. To my uneducated brain it seemed that the motor pushing the lightest cone would be the most accurate. At the time I found that the best compromise between accuracy and deep bass were the 10s. I chose to go with 4 8” subs for space consideration and to gain back some of the deep bass. Always being an sq guy I have stuck to 8” drivers in a proper sealed box and plenty of power to this day.
if you are into sound quality and you have a vehicle that can make it work
you absolutely have to try some big free air woofers in an infinite baffle
it is absolutely life changing bass without basically needing any space at all
I found that an 8 inch driver in a sealed box with a Qtc of 1 and and driver/box resonance frequency of 60 Hz gave the best low frequency extension when it combined with the vehicle cabin gain. Getting down to 20Hz was no problem.
@@Crushonius ran free airs decades ago. At my age, I don’t have the time or inclination to build baffle to properly seal the rear deck of the cars I drive now. Simply eliminating rear deck rattles is a challenge with modern cars.
Even with that high fs, small subs don't have any issues playing lows. Box tuning and airspace are the keys. MB Enclosures routinely has pairs of 8 in subs doing 140s at below 30hz.
He does good work.
In vehicle cabin gain is responsible for that. You get 12db/octave boost below the starting frequency for cabin gain in your vehicle. You can calculate that by 1127/(longest length in feet) = starting frequency. For a car of about 12 feet from start of trunk to firewall that = 93hz. That means you get a boost starting there that goes up 12 db at 46hz, 24 db at 23hz. That 24 db boost is no joke, it's like running 16 subs instead of 2 at 23hz.
Im certain that im the dumbest one here, however, ive never heard 8s or 10s that I could say the equivalent number of 12s or 15s wouldnt hit at bare minimum, as hard, typically harder than the small subs. Sure, ive heard 10s that sounded "fine" if thats what you're into, however ive never heard 2 8" or 2 10" subs that literally took my breath or cracked a windshield. Im 47 and started in car audio at 17 years old, US Amps and Orion XTR subs is what i started with. Everyone has different taste in sound, i have friends that think one 12 or 2 10" subs is "plenty", while Im plotting a 6th order for 4 12" subs. For now, as budget permits i plan to expand, but that's hopefully enough to make me feel like i have a decent start.
@@Hammerback972 Exactly! All else being equal, smaller subs will never beat larger subs. I don't know why people ever make this claim. Sure, somebody may have 2 10's on 3,000 watts that will destroy another person with 2 12's on 1000 watts.... but, that's not all else being equal though is it? Put dual 12's on 3,000 watts and those 10's disappear.
@@MotoAtheistnot if the box isn’t the right size and tuned correctly. 2-8”s behind the seat of a truck hitting 140db @33hz. Show me any 10”+ that can do that. Most boxes that will fit 2-10”s tuned properly won’t fit behind the seat of a truck.
Even if the Fs is high, sometimes small subwoofers can be tuned in the 40 Hz region which is about the lowest extent of 'musical' bass, apart from synthesized bass. And if you've just got room for a tiny cube sealed box, you can still apply equalization and work together with your vehicle's cabin gain function to get 'flat' bass to a low frequency, it will just be excursion-limited or power-limited.
Great video as always man. As a diy:er myself this is very usefull. Thank you and keep it up dude 👍👍
I put a 6.5 subwoofer in my concrete mixer cab on 300 watts and people can't believe I'm running such a small subwoofer. I unfortunately bottomed out the sub too many times on 25 hertz rebassed music and now the cone slaps the voice coil. Great video Justin as always.
Cool!
I bet you bent the former. My speaker had an annoying noise beyond a certain volume... Took it apart, former collapsed slightly on the end. Ruined :(
@greenbassboosts8872 that's exactly what's happening. After about 1/4 turn on the bass knob it sounds like it's hitting something. I never considered the former! I'm replacing it with a CT Sounds Meso. Hope it doesn't happen again!
If you have the space, maybe you could run a 10" or similar size passive radiator for the lows, and keep the power levels down?
@@RJSDZNS
Sounds like you havent implemented a high pass filter. Or maybe a poorly implemented one. Ported subs unload below tuning frequency, the driver behaves as if it was in free air.
I have a 2021 Ford F150 and I have 4 front facing 8" subs in a custom Skar sub box. It sounds great with a Pioneer GM-D9701 amp at 2 ohms. I've done some testing with 2 10's and 2 12's, but for everyday driving, the 8's are perfect for all genres of music.
Does skar have a down firing version?
I'm worried about equipment and groceries damaging the cones
Great video!
I am looking forward to the building and testing of these "woofers"😉.
I am excited to build some boxes!
Great video! Ive been looking for more info on small subs. I want to replace a single 12 with two 6.5s to get more trunk space back. Looking forward to the next video!🤘
Hopefully I can do some comparisons a 2 vs 4 of these, that kind of thing.
Small subs are cool, for the intended purpose, but i also like using them with passive radiators . Even more space , easily adjustable tuning, and more cone area. Not as much of a peak in dbs as ported but a much better bandwidth and still a good amount of bass.
For what it's worth, we have an old 1994 Explorer with a factory JBL system. The four door speakers don't go much below 150hz. The little 6.5" factory sub in the rear corner does quite a good job filling the low end. Of course it doesn't blow anyones hair around lol but impressive for so little driver all by itself.
Also a friend had an 1987 Pontiac Fiero with a factory 5.25" sub located up under the passenger side of the dash. The little thing did a very respectable job with the bottom end! (Fun facts that won't change your life!)
Great content on the little subs!
Looking forward to more stuff.
Cool old cars!
I did a 1989 Toyota extended cab pickup with four 6 3/4" Fosgate power series coaxials running in full range with 250 watts per Channel two speakers per door with strengthening and dampening in the doors and yes it sounded extremely good
well balanced and behaved but still one single 12 would easily outperform all four!
but it was an experiment as to not have a 12 inch sub laying around taking up space.. .
Your videos have come a long way. There's alot of great info in this one. Very helpful to newcomers and people who have been doing this for years and always guess at things. Now they can understand insted of guessing. 😎👍👍
Thanks!
My 4 Image Dynamics ID8s play loud and low with only 1k watts. Love them!
Nice vid! I like horn boxes with these smaller woofers, especially in crew cabs and if you can only do one because of box size then its worth the sacrifice imo. Keep bangin 🤘
Funny first vehicle you mentioned is 4 door pickup lol. I got 14 sierra, Im running Skar VD10.
Set up as downfire in my custom center console that also hosts my refrigerator. Overland vehicle under back seat used as storage.
i tried recently to get a ported 8" with a custom folded port with radiused inlet and outlet to sound as good as a 10" in the same space of .5cuft and it was a bust, the port noise and less tight response made the 10" sound better by comparison even if on paper the 8" might have seemed best
I always thought a sound system should bring a sound into your house or your vehicle like you're actually sitting in the concert you're listening to, that's what a true stereo should do. I built a few that are actually did that. It's so awesome you put in in that day it was a cassette and you actually thought you were at the concert. Most people have systems that are going to cause hearing loss.
Most concerts are played at hearing loss levels.
Its very hard to get true SQ in a car versus at home. Dont get my wrong nice sq is possible in vehicles but there are levels to this...Good for you!
Solid video mate. 👌
I've been impressed with the numbers of Sevard's subwoofers and hope to purchase one soon for my vehicle. Curious, what about magnet size and the performance of a subwoofer? It seems the larger the magnet the more watts the sub can handle. Correct?
I love this. Thank you!
hi, I want to know your advice. what size should i make my 18 inch subwoofer cabinet with low setting. Fs-26.1 Vas-152.2 Qts-0.33
The Dayton dsc165 is pretty impressive if you have to go small. I have enjoyed mine quite a bit. Just had to re-tune my door speakers to make up for the 45-100hz range.
Is it real life if there aren't any trade offs? Lol
I will get those a look!
I love my bass! Great video. I have four Yamaha CXS18XLF 18" passive subwoofers in home rig. Size matters.
That's a lot of cone area!
Sir i have a question that what should be the tuning frequency in winisd which is listed in box section and how will it affect in audio output?
Plss reply!
Good information man
Love these videos, thanks
Thanks for watching!
Cabin gain is an amazing boon to small subs in a small space. Passive radiators are mega helpful for small applications.
Remember having the Sundown SA 8 v.3 it was an absolute beast 🔥
Those are great subs.
Liked the video - Thanks Savard!
I am having a ton of fun with these subs.
them sundown sa v3 are pretty good
Thanks 👍
Great stuff 😎 Justin
Nice to see you repping savard.
You gain 3db in sensitivity at 1watt with 2 driver's and another 3db as you can also throw double the power at the setup :D Good video!
I got 2 SB23MFCL-4 (new revision) in a huge tapped horn and they generate so much air pressure till 13hz at home that i physically can't stop my windows or living room door from shaking even if i lean against it🤣🤣🤣
Tried Hertz MPS250 10' in my polo, cause had only 14L of space in the spare wheel (made a circular custom box in it). I gotta say I love it very much. Some pieces in the car rattle when it plays full tilt with 500w amp. It is not going very low tho, I think 35hz tops.
Nice!!
I used to be a 12s and 15s type, now i use 10s, the box is what matters most in my opinion, in the right box you can get louder than a couple 15s in a bad one. got a ds18 zr10 d4 on a taramps md1200.1 2 ohm in a 1.8 cubic ft box tuned to 31hz and its able to float a bag from 26-34hz
So let me get this straight, Sherlock. You're simply saying a proper setup can beat a bad setup and this is somehow news? You take a 12 or 15 and put them in a proper setup and your 10's disappear in the background. What is the point of your comment?
@MotoAtheist well obviously 12s or 15s should bang harder. Was just saying it's surprising what you can do with the right box, if I had some 12s or 15s obviously it'd probably gonna be louder, but you don't need 12s or 15s to get low and it saves space aswell.
Genuine question, trying to learn. If the smaller subs have a free air resonant frequency in a higher hertz range, are we talking a significant difference in how hard they have to work in a low tuned box compared to a sub with a lower natural resonant freguency? Is this difference seen in metered wattage output or how do I test this theory?
I built a 28hz tuned ported box with two Skar EVL6.5’s for a friend and it was surprisingly low and windy, but subs always got hot at 200 watts RMS. Shortened port to 34hz and could play over rms all day no heat. I never understood why since I wasn’t exceeding mech x-max and I was at recommended power and not playing below tuning. Maybe the high free air fs of 61hz in a low tuned box explains it.
Had 4 6.5inch DDs, sounded incredible - played all the way down to 20hz and was musical at the same time. Multiple small subs in a quality box is a great option for anyone wanting to retain space and have an awesome system
They make good subwoofers.
Have you compared ported to non-ported with passive radiator(s)?
If you want the woofer to play well below its resonant frequency, you need an acoustic labyrinth cabinet. With a ported cabinet, you would want the port to be somewhat higher than the resonant frequency, as not to produce immense volume at one low note. The old "frequency response" was originally plus or minus 3 dB, while "frequency range" would be plus or minus 10 dB (2x as loud or half as quiet as other frequencies. I play 5 string basses, and have an 800 watt stack with a 4x10 vented cabinet that can go down to 35 Hz -3 dB, and a vented 15, which I would bet can only go down to about 50 Hz -3 dB. I'm pretty sure my deep B is below with either of these, so I aim for power, depth and punch. Since I want punch, I need a lot of higher bass notes. Deep bass is great, but it's nest in movies and gaming. Both my bass cabs are about the same size.
Hey y’all, any opinions on whether you’d prefer the performance from (1) 15” with a 6” vc, 240oz mag, and 25mm xmax, vs (4) 6” subs with 2” vc, 80oz magnets, and 7mm xmax. They would fit in a similar size box but the total vc, xmax, and magnet structures are greater values in the quad small sub setup so I presume the force generated is more violent with the multiple motors. Is there a drawback to either or benefits? Also considering that the multi sub setup can be wired as isobaric.
6” voice coil?
Great video bro
Thanks!
what app do you use for box design?
Is there such a thing as a dual voice coil, 8-inch mid-bass speaker? I have a Jeep Cherokee which has a space where this would fit but I haven't been able to find such a speaker.
I have not seen one. If one exist parts Express will have it.
@@DIYAudioGuy Thanks. I'll check it out.
SAS bazookas 6.5 were amazing
1st rule in car audio lol 😆 Use what fits. Merry Christmas 🎅 🎄 Justin.
My sub is a 10'' sub and takes 2000rms at 1 ohm and it play at 20hz, am happy with it, 10s for life 😎
me just sitting here with a 148+ at 18hz from 2 8s.
I bet that sound good.
@@williamblackwell9558 fantastic within 2-4db from 15-45hz.
28” 2” External port is what I made work with a sundown x6.5 in an under seat enclosure .27cuft
I built a custom enclosure to Savard's specs (volume, not shape). I am running 2 8" HQ series subs powering them with an Audio Control LC-1.1500. They play pretty low and hit hard, but above 60Hz the output rolls off quickly, and by 90Hz is almost inaudible. Any idea what could cause this? I have verified it is not a crossover issue, I plotted input voltage to the box vs dB output. Power is there, audio output is not.
Try flipping the polarity on the subs and see what happens.
Hi. I watched a few of your videos and although you make it very easy to understand I still can't work out winisd to create the perfect box for my subwoofers. I want a ported box tuned to around 32hz for 4x12" Pyle bluewave plbw124 subs. Is there any chance if I send you my maximum dimensions you could mock a box up for me to make thanks willing to donate to your channel for your help.
Ok so I have a CT Sounds Strato 8" sub in a ported box and it gets the 600 watts of RMS it can handle. What would be the best Sub to add to get the deep deep rumbling bass at the lower hertz to pair with this that would run at 600 watts rms?
a 15 inch sub.
i still have 4 dayton audio rs225-8 drivers with aluminium cones laying around, waiting for two high sealed boxes. sealed and big enough to get a smooth roll-off at the lower end. no more vented boxes for me. with two class-d amps and an active crossover, i will be fine. two fosi audio amps should deliver much more power than i will ever need in my living room.
Yes, BUT: a car is an enclosed space which boosts very low frequency and makes it perfect to use a small sub as you can tune its enclosure to this small space or am I missing something here?
BESIDES: I don't look so much at what Watt a speaker is rated at but I am more interested in High Sensitivity and Low Distortion over the intended range
I just built a box for two CT Sounds Meso 6.5" subs, box is tuned between 38 - 39hz. I wasn't going for spl, more for low end extension. 2013 Ford Explorer.... the factory Sony system sounds really good for stock, but the subwoofer lacked authority. The two Meso's paired with a 400w amp provide enough output to energize the interior of the vehicle without permeating outside, causing unwanted rattles. When doors are closed, you can hear the door speakers through the doorskins, but when you open the doors, you can hear, and FEEL the bass. No need to be the loudest anymore, foundation is strong now...... quality over quantity 😉
I have KIA picanto 2013, where to put it and how big the box should be pls?
Planning on 8' or 10' subs.
I am not familiar with the car and the box size will depend on the subwoofer.
My sundown 10 u is 48hz fs but the enclosure its tuned 36 and it plays down to the high twentys so it plays from 29 to about 55 hz a very wide bandwidth
Shouldnt they be able to play a bit higher with a 36hz tune? I use 12" and 15" in my cars but at 32hz tuned ports for both, they can play mid 20hz into the 70-80ish hz region or so.
@@Luminous.Dynamics it will pick up the higher frequency but it would not play it with authority because of the lower tuning of the enclosure which is 36 hz
Small drivers are inefficient at low frequencies. Even if you add more drivers to get surface area up, you will have more losses, distorsion and lower sensitivity than if you just started with a large driver of the same area from the beginning. It only makes sense if a larger driver doesn't fit where you want it (basically when smaller is your only option).
Now, if you want your heavy, large, low FS sub to play high up into the mid bass (I dont know why you'd want that?) then you'd be better off with smaller drivers. Or, to be real; use the big sub to play very low frequencies and add mid basses for the mid bass where they are more efficient.
Im actually looking to upgrade my system. If i go to a random local stereo install store will they be able to help me without ripping me off? I don't know what will fit how many subs to get what brands, amps ect, ect. I have a new truck with full size crew cab. Im looking to do under seat mount subs. Would i need to replace the factory door speakers too?
They will try to upsell you as much as they can. No different than anythign else these days.
How much bass do you want? That's the question. You need to give them proper information or they will simply default to what others are doing in their trucks. Do you want a balanced system? Do you want bass that can over take your main speakers a bit? Do you want bass that will over take your main speakers by a lot? Do you want bass that will slowly rattle your vehicle apart?
As for replacing your main speakers, that's totally up to you. If you are looking for a lot of bass, say in the 1,000 watts zone, your factory speakers will most likely be inadequate. You can get quite a bit of bass from just 500 watts. Nothing to brag about, of course, but it gets the job done.
You also have to consider your factory alternator and what it can handle.
For example, if you install a 2,000-watt system, it adds roughly 150 amps of demand to the electrical system.
So... you have to figure out your max safe wattage you can even install and then decide if you want that all in the subs or include new main speakers. 100w per main speaker x 4 doors and you'll have maybe 1,000w or more left for subs depending on your alternator or you can just put the full 1,400+ in to some subs.
If you start looking at a 2,500 watt system, you may be looking at new alternator as well. Bigger trucks tend to have larger amp alternators so that's good.
I've been a fan of small subs and small sub arrays since the 80s.
Savard Rap great bang for the buck 👍 of course I prefer bigger subs whenever possible as all subs will get low, but bigger are more audible on low notes.
Where did you get that formula for fs from? Shouldn’t t be fs equal to sqrt(1\(MMS Cms))/(2pi) as with any other spring_mass system of order two and one degree of freedom?
I don't remember where I got the formula. I made the graphic several years ago. I guess this is why you should always start your sources. But I'll do some more digging and see if I can figure out the correct formula.
Went from two 6" massive subs in a ported box under the backseat of the pick up truck to two 12" flat infinitys in a sealed box and it just improved all round. No replacement for displacement
I have a Speaker Enclosure Patent and would possibly make for some interesting content and give my New design more exposure. Also can let me know the pros and cons of a spherical type design.
Look forward to hearing from you.
What software are you using for the box desin
WinISD and SketchUp
What kind of Programm does he use to „draw“ his speakerboxes?
Solidwork
I go over that in this video: th-cam.com/video/0uA0mmq3CJ4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=QbPLh4_Pxi31gP4V
Hey, what's up with the formula at 0:46? i mean, what is 50pi doing in the nominator there? The formula should be 1/(sqrt(...) * 2pi), as long as you use proper SI units. Yes, if you use different units (N/mm, grams) you will need a conversion factor somewhere, but whatever happens, how could pi had possibly moved to the nominator??
The source I use for the formula was incorrect.
Driver size really depends on what vehicle you have. I have a soundcore rave party 2, and find it too bassy inside a regular car. You need about 40-80W peak, so as long as your drivers are efficient, and can handle the power they suffice inside a car.
There is no replacement for displacement.
True
one way to deal with limited space , is to use isobaric setup. i prefer the smallest possible coupling chamber, drivers facing back to back. it helps a lot with linearity, and allso moving air hitting the basket , magnet etc.. well, its sealed in a cha,ber so far less is possible to be audible. basicly you can halve Vas, all other parameters remains the same for calculations. allso the dynamics of the setup change a lot, you get a miniscule amount more mass as you do move the coupling chamber air mass , but you get twice the motor force for the same area.
my floorstanding speakers got this "upgrade". but, instead of 1 driver, i use 4 of them. boils down to a series + antiparallel config. speakers sharing a coupling chamber has to be wires antiparallel. 2 set of those is wired in series. thatway i got twice the power handling. i allso do not like traditional bass reflex setup. i prefer the veems style dual chamber ones. there is a very good reason for that, it adds a 2nd resonant freqvency. this allows even more powerhandling, as cone excursion is reduced. when compared to a single driver, the following is gained:
- net cabinet volume is unchanged.
- impedance curve in unchanged.
- 2x the power handling
- with a proper eq , the 4 driver setup will have its -3dbl point where the 1 driver setup had its -6dbl point
- way better linearity
- approx 1.4 times cone acceleration (that translates to otherwise unobtainable fidelity even if you don't care about audio stuff, its very noticeable)
the following is lost:
- needs 3 more drivers
- more complex cabinet design
- to take advantage of the extra low freqvency extentsion, eq has to be applied along with 2x the amplifier power
- the total cabinet size will still be bigger than with a single driver, depending on setup that can be just a small increase, or an increase over 1.5 times
some 10" -12" drivers in this type of tesup can indeed reach the 20hz -3dbl point. most recording formats don't even have anything under 20 hz as standard. i have not ever seen anything that can manage it, and is whitin reasonable size. its well whitin reason to aim for HALF the Fs of a single driver as a -3dbl point for the 4 driver setup.
i bought some cheapo HiVi 6 inch speakers as midbass. and they do play very nice down to 30Hz at -3 dbl .
That style of box was trendy back in the 1990's.
@@DIYAudioGuy unsure if this combination was ever popular, but indeed I managed to grab a few thropies in speaker building competitions. The 4 driver series-antiparallel solution described works well for midbass units.
But allso , I did score a few in car audio too. I took the luxury of using high efficiency PA drivers in a car. Just 2 of them in isobaric , back to back. And naturally the weems dual chamber reflex combined.
Usually PA drivers tend to require quite large boxes. Thisway I managed to squeeze them into a managable box volume.
But , the PA drivers I found usable had an spl of 93+ dBL , unlike most car subwoofer drivers that rarely managed more Than 85 or so.
Not hard to guess , I had an absolute edge.
Good Times, fun Times.
Nowdays car subs are designed differently , there is not a lot of competition.
Homes are smaller , more cramped , most people simply don't enjoy the luxury of having a decent setup , and even if they did , neighbors would complain about the sound.
Nowdays all I see is these Bluetooth boom boxes , kind of like old "ghettoblasters" .
Not terrible quality wise, but actually lacking fidelity and resolution.
Times change , can't say for the better or worse overall.
I run a 6.5" 606D on my pedicab. I might be able to fit a 8-10" if I really tried. It does a pretty decent job though.
greeting here in puerto rico we use pvc panel for making kitchens cabinet! i just did a pvc enclosure for a 23 old technics speaker, and sound amazing, but im a cabinet maker not a sound guy, i use 3/4- .65 density rhino pvc panel, i search youtube and didn't find a single video reference using pvc panel , so maybe its a good test for a audio diy guy like you to test!,
None of the PVC panel we have here is rigid enough for that.
@@DIYAudioGuy yes i have wood worker friend in the states and they tell me that they are hard to find at higher density over .45 and they are costly, i thinks home depots have them! but don't know the density they are! and less that .55 is not going to cut it! i got the material but not the test equipment or the audio knowledge! ps i thinks is a good option! it have the option of density up to .80! it wont expand, its not damage by water or humidity! it hold paint finish good , or can be laminate
my sundown x8v3's are slamming at 15hz thogh! just ported enclosure!
what about if you have a heap of small subwoofers that equal the same cone area and the same excursion surely all the small ones will be better than one big one as it has a heap more coils driving the same amount of air
I have 2 10s one on 3000 watts thats 4 years old and a fresh recone breaking in on a fosgate 325.2 and no need for more. The 2nd one will be on 3000 watts eventually and I still have trunk room.
When i played bass, i used a 2x10" and a 1x15". Gave plenty of sound to keep up with the blaring guitarists and i didnt lose anything on the far low end.
I'm a bass player. Multiple, 4 to 8 10" drivers are considered ideal because it allows low bass frequencies with tight bass and they can handle a lot more power than 2 15". The lowest bass frequency of a standard tuned 5 or 6 string instrument is 32 HZ. The small interior space of a car or truck allows good bass response from small speakers because pushing a lot of air isn't necessary. The same speaker in a room would sound pretty bass shy.
If you're concerned about box size and footprint putting two subwoofers together isobaric allows you to cut box volume requirement, still requires a long port though and port resonances become a problem. At that point you're basically needing to build a tapped horn design.
I like to call that the small box problem. As the box gets smaller the port needs to get longer.
6-1/2 inch is decent size for a loudspeaker driver designed to produce frequencies from 35ish Hz-4500ishHz known as a midbass, midwoofer, or just woofer to match with a soft dome tweeter or a midrange and a tweeter for potentially better sound quality. Best automotive subwoofer size is between 10 to 15 inches. However there are some dual 6-1/2 inch floorstanding speakers that have amazingly deep bass despite the woofer doing double duty for subbass and midbass frequencies or even triple duty for subbass, midbass, and midrange frequencies and each speaker tower is rated around 150 to 250 watts and the sub bass SQ is better than a DB drive 6-1/2 inch automotive sub.
Funny to see this video pop up a week after i just put 4 8" Kickers in a forward firing box under the back seat of my 2021 Silverado.
If you want to use them in some sort of horn box, they can be good, but price to displacement ratio with smaller subwoofers isn't as good. Or in a small box, a passive radiator might be more efficient than a long skinny port.
I have 2 CT Sounds 6.5 Tropo subs. They hit really hard in my ported box. Sound like a 12. But I wanted the space so 6.5’s it was
Sound like which 12? Does this fantasy crap 12 only exist in your hopes and dreams?
@@MotoAtheist 1: no need to be a complete dick just because you’re behind a keyboard. 2 I’ve had several 12’s over the years and these in the right box hit plenty hard.
@@Hoovnuts2010 Not saying they don't sound fine, but what 12 are you comparing them too? 6.5's do not sound like a 12, nowhere near it, unless somebody seriously F'd up the setup of the 12.
High FS is good for a low playing tapped horn
Its in box spec as well... if a subs in the rite box it can get low
We have already done this comparison.
Two 12" drivers tend to win against one 18" driver because they often have a more powerful motor in relation to the MMS. This means that the 12" drivers are also capable of handling more power. However, you have to find 12" drivers that have just as much Xmax, which is quite difficult to find. Because the 12s tend to have a better mass/drive ratio, they generally sound much more precise.
Overall, however, it makes no difference. If the TSPs were the same, it wouldn't make any difference whether you put two 12" drivers or one 18" driver in the same cabinet. So it depends more on the parameters than the driver size alone.
ABC box is a emergency fix for oh so cheap 10" element but Fs 58hz.. needs volume tho.
As a dj, I have for the last 30 years always gone for smaller subs due to problems with latency on bigger subs when beat-mixing.
I have built-in closures for 30 years and know exactly what you're talking about
1:05. The first thing to go in driver built this way is the braid stitch into the damper/spider. If assembled properly, they'd last a lot longer. But, no, time and money wins out.
As the old saying goes there's no replacement for displacement.
I love 8" subs! I think they're most useful for getting similar cone area as a larger sub, in a smaller box, with more power handling. For example, 1 SA15v3 has a rated power handling of 1000W and takes a 3 cuft box. I could get a similar cone area and in this case similar volume displacement, with 4 SA8v3s. I would also get that with a rated power handling of 2000W and a box of 2.6 cuft.
Power handling has virtually nothing to do with response. A 100W 18” woofer would make more and cleaner bass than a dozen 8” cones with 1000W. The 8” cone is the wrong tool for the job. The requirement is simple - move the air. As more and more inadequate devices are depended on to achieve that, distortion rises, power is wasted, and ultimately the frequencies you originally wanted to reproduce are not reproduced.
Current technology for infrasub design uses 26” drivers with ultra-stiff lightweight cones to render 10-30Hz signals in concert sound, the ‘feel’ frequencies. The goal is satisfied as can be verified with very simple math. No quantity of 8” drivers could do the job. There is no free lunch in physics. Making mean-looking mini woofers is a job for hucksters. The smaller, the worse.
By the way, box volume is not an arbitrary design choice. It is strictly dictated by the design of the driver(s) used. The only way to reduce box size is to choose a driver with the right resonant frequency AND mechanical characteristic of the entire motor assembly, which is the cone, surround, and voice coil. Pro speaker design is not the least bit random as you seem to suggest.
I love your condescension, it's refreshing. You were right with the statement, "The job is simple - move the air." Full stop. If some quantity of 8" woofers moves the same amount of air, which is cone area times xmax, then yeah, damn similar bass. You are so far off of what I'm talking about which is funny. But if you would like to test your thought, get your one 100W RMS 18, put it in a box and then put it in the trunk of a car. I'll make a box with as many 8s as it takes to get equal volume displacement and I'll give it whatever power handling that comes out to. I'd bet you $100, I win. This ain't pro sound where FLHs rule the roost and box size can be whatever. This is car audio where 30-80hz performance is what matters. But thanks for "educating" me about every concept I already know 🙄
@@arthurhicks9586 Glad I could help, Arthur.
@@FuckTH-camCensorship2024 I subscribe to the idea of higher sub crossovers from Erinsaudiocorner. If you want to crossover lower, you do you
@@FuckTH-camCensorship2024 yeah that's not how any of that works. Why do you need to dissipate a lot of heat at 80hz? You know your coil in a ported box barely moves at port tuning too, right? Playing 80hz doesn't defeat the point of a custom sub either, like wtf you talking about? Like I said, go watch Erinsaudiocorner and do some learning on DIYMA. Or not. Like I said do you.
I recently purchased a 12" kicker with a passive radiator and 6x JBL mids&highs to replace the stock speakers. I am somewhat disappointed with how it responds in the 200-1k hz area. I have a 1989 convertible mustang that limits my options and while this works pretty good it doesn't sound like I spent over $1000 on speakers & amps. I have a lot of respect for you guys that build amazing sounding systems. I feel like I did a reasonable amount of research before I bought everything but the spectrum analyzer looks like trash with big valleys and peaks. Apparently I still have a lot to learn.
yeah the jbls are the culprit here
you need to get a good front system the rest is just for filler anyways
the music needs to come from in front of you kinda of like on a stage
you would not turn your back to the stage to listen to music now would you .
my recommendation would be to spend maybe 200-300 bucks on a good component system
from a reputable brand hertz , jl audio , focal or something that fits the music that you love to listen to
and let a professional install it and hook it to your amp .
then kill all the other speakers for the time being and just listen to the system like that front and sub.
when or if you decide to add the other speakers back just set them pretty quiet as a sort of filler
but i am pretty sure you will not need them anyways , you should be able to recoup enough money
for a decent front system by selling your 6 jbl speakers .
i know i know this sounds scary but it is the way to go for a better sound
Jbl not a reputable brand? Huh.
@@cdbennett2332 yeah they are great in building theater speakers and PA speakers
but in car audio they basically resell cheap chinese crap speakers with their logo
stamped on it .
and your reaction just proves my point
you are just blinded by the brand name
and you are not alone in this, people know
jbl the brand so they blindly by it , this is how they get away with it
I personally would blame those shit jbl speakers. Had the same issue in my 2006 honda s2000 when i tried high end JBL speakers. Cant stand them. You probably hate the "jbl sound flavor" as each brand, without being equalized, sound different. In prefer the sound of kicker/polk/Sony and hate infinity/jbl/kenwood. Each persons ears hear differently which is wild but true. So its possible JBL just sounds like shit to you.
@Crushonius I've owned many good jbl speakers and no they aren't junk. Ever heard of Gary Biggs? He ran the gti line for years with crown amps.
The Savard hi q 6.5" are super impressive. I had 4 of them in my 74' elco. Made a custom box tuned to 30Hz and they get down! They flex my car crazy. Running them at 4 ohms on a d4s jp33. Now I have Savard high output 10's running at 1 ohm. And god dammnnn.
This makes me miss my JL Audio 2x 12W6 setup.
I bet that was a fun setup!
@@DIYAudioGuy it was. Was in a sealed box and not with too much power, a JL Audio 500W Mono split between the two, I dunno how it was all set up, I was in High School/College. Early 2000s. Not particularly loud or rumbly compared to a lot of setups but really high quality, and SMOOOOTH. Plenty loud enough.
Ive always been a huge JL Audio fan. My friend that sold them to me got a single W7 powered by a JL 1000W mono and that was the best system I ever heard. Those W7s were no joke!
Idk... you put a single 15" Crescendo Forte in an extended cab 96 ranger and you wont need to buy multiples of the same woofer or get too crazy about box design. Thats the other thing... if you have the option to buy just one sub VS. Two or four of the same one, thats money that could be spent elsewhere in the build. Admittedly, i used to try to see what i could build with little or no money. Ive traded for car audio stuff, people have given me stuff... that Crescendo was in a guys yard and i passed it every day for three weeks. I was walking to the dollar store when i seen the guy outside. I asked him what he was doing with the box because i had a RF 12" and needed a box. He says " you want it? You can HAVE it, sub and all" i asked him what it has in it. He said it was a crescendo until his "girl" threw some groceries in the trunk and a gallon of milk ended up busting the cone. I epoxied it back together and beat the roof up in my ranger for a year and a half 5-7 days a week with it. I could never afford to do apples to apples tests to see what i like best in a setup... it used to be "run it til it goes up in smoke, attempt to fix it, if not worth fixing, find a deal on something as good or better something. Nowadays, i do have some adult money, but im more focused with engine building and engine swaps because my bass truck turned into race truck
One thing banks of small speakers provide is cone response. Why do you think 30 plus inch speakers don't get made any more? It's cone response, if the array is built correctly it will act like a much larger speaker but have the cone response time of a smaller speaker.
Most music doesn't actually go that low so you don't need a big subwoofer, also there's the fact that many people dislike the additional noise of the car rattling along the sub.
Sure if you want to have a rattlebox that turns heads wherever you go then sure big subs are ideal, but if you actually want to improve the sound quality smaller subs should work well.