Saving The Game of Thrones Universe on HBO After Fall of House of the Dragon | GRRM's ASOIAF
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- In the wake of House of the Dragon's terrible Season 2, is there a way to save the adaptations of George RR Martin's world on HBO?
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I'll watch because I've read all the books but a LOT of people are angry, just from the sampling of reading comments on videos. And it doesn't get better the more you think about the season the worse it is. I was thinking recently even in the best episode of the season they messed up by having Aemond purposely try to kill Aegon. It could've been filmed to where the audience and Cole could have doubts. In the episode prior Aemond said he felt bad about Lucerys, then why would he want to kill Aegon over some taunting in the brothel after Lucerys took his eye?
They did a horrible job this season of explaining how characters got from point A to point B. Alicent was the worst of it.
@@CoastalColin the assassination attempt was set up. In the first season when they searched Aegon for coronation he was jealous and said he's a better person and he should be a king. In the second season he showed that he was traumatized by bullying and his brother Aegon was his biggest bully. Aegon then publicly laughed at him at the brothel summoning the childhood trauma. Later in the series Aemond showed contempt towards Aegon and humiliated him in front of the small council which culminated in the dragon attack.
In fact, Aymond had many more reasons to kill Aegon, because of the ridicule he had been subjected to all his life, because he thought he was more worthy of the Iron Throne, because he had received Vhagar and Aegon himself had given up the throne before he was caught and forced onto the stage.
Although the second season is good, especially if you have no expectations. I was expecting more screen time for dragons, more dragons and less lesbian melodrama.
@@NatmerMunAlikorn people keep complaining about the lack of battles and dragon fights, but that never was a strong point of the franchise like in GOT the battles were mediocre at best or skipped or happened behind the scenes. The strong point were characters, plot twists and dramatic dialogues, like the highlight of the first season was a scene where Corlys's brother (forgot his name) claimed Driftmark and called Rhaenyra's children bastards this scene or like the red wedding are intense beats any CGI bullshit they can draw. I haven't watched the whole second season yet, currently on the fifth episode but I've seen people complained about the falling quality and the botched ending but as of now the series is solid 8/10 for me and if all "botchedness" is that there was no a CGI battle at the end it's okay with me.
GRRM chasing TV adaptations reminds me of the guy at the airport in Vegas playing the slot machines in the terminal trying to win back his losses before his flight. He's given his trust to the wrong people time after time. I'm not saying Tomlin will be another failure but GRRM's track record isn't good.
he knows his the tv shows will be his legacy . no one will reads books these days . game of thrones is the reason he's a critically acclaimed famous writer not a song àof ice and fire.
The universe will always be interesting but it also seems like it will always get mistreated down the line and will never get a satisfying conclusion to anything.
Well the solution is quite simple innit, STICK TO THE DAMN SOURCE MATERIAL
People act as though there's some mystery behind why seasons 1-4 of Thrones and season 1 of HoTD were much better received by fans and had more viewership
If the reviews on Dunk and Egg are good I think that could bring more people in that would otherwise not watch. They need to promote that Martin is behind the scriptwriting. That all can help Aegon's Conquest and I think the fanbase is vast enough that people will come back for it.
I hope The Knight of the Seven Kingdoms does well, but I don't think it's going to have the same wide appeal.
How do you guys think they will do the Dunk and Egg show, have you read the Novellas? They seem too short for a season each but too long altogether to fit in one. I was wondering if maybe they would do multiple seasons but add new stories George has been working on.
Or they might lure everyone into the shows with quality, like with HotD S01, and then blindside everyone with their agenda driven fan fiction afterwards.
@@kevincatal8869 I have, and the story itself is very good. The plan is for it to run only three seasons. But to complete it they'll need new content from George. Since he's the primary scriptwriter here. I'm assuming we'll see the story end on the TV side and we won't actually get the final novellas.
Can we have the ending of Game of Thrones?
At some point?
I mean, Tolkien had time to write his shit faster than Martin.
And he finished it, also...
Honestly it all makes me more POed at D&D. The HOTD creators just suck, but D&D didn't put in the the effort in the final seasons.
I feel like they got an ego off the first season. I thought it was very enjoyable but then they started making changes George argued against and some of it comes off like fanfic (Allicent and Rhaenyra meetings)
from Kit Harringtons latest interview on a podcast, it sounded more like that some of the actors were kinda wanting to move on so they can do other projects, so that might correlate in a big way too
@@Eshayzbra96 actor would naturally want to do something else it had been 10 yrs but it was not problem abt actors but writers wanting to finish tit asap.
i kinda undersatnd tho. even if they actually did better . there is that desire to do other things . since D D have done nothing but game of thrones for more than 12 years .
I have hope for Aegon's Conquest. However, will enough people still care to give it a chance?
Between frustrations with the shows and the constant delay of TWOW, interest in this intellectual property could be more doomed than Valyria.
The "will people care" factor is a great unknown. I didn't think that Season 1 of House of the Dragon would have as many viewers as it did after Game of Thrones crashed. But then HotD viewership declined this season. If he has Winds out by the time Aegon's Conquest airs, it'll reenergize everyone. And with it being a few years away yet he should be done, but....we know how that goes.
Hope is a strong word to bring up after witnessing multiple train wrecks.
I think alot of people will at least give the next one a shot, but if it's bad, all bets are off
After Condal I’ll never believe anything these writers say anymore.
Visenya will be the true ruler and rhaenys will be groomed/Sa’d by aegon.
Just you wait
While I'm cautiously optimistic about the new series, I can't blame you. I really believed in Condal, so much so that when Sapochnik left after Season 1 I thought everything would be fine since Ryan was still there.
Was season 1 written well? Game of Thrones had it's problems especially after season 4, but there were still characters to root for even in the bad seasons. Season 1 of House of the Dragon didn't have that. All the main characters are unlikable.
For me Season 1 was much better. But now I wonder how much of that was wanting to like it, after the GoT mess. I cut them breaks in the continuity of the story and character development due to the time skips. The older to younger version jump was the most awkward. I'll have to rewatch it at some point. This season is making me reassess some of it. Things though like Rhaenys escape from the dragonpit I was critical of at the time too. While there were characters I did like in Season 1, I don't like any of them now.
@@reelworld1 For me, there was so much that didn't make sense. They had a bigger budget, but I have no idea where it went because everything seemed smaller. The small council room, the throne room, even the tournament. They built up the crab feeder only for him to die off screen. Blood and Cheese was the last straw for me. The way people talked it seemed like it was going to be the Red Wedding of this series, but instead it's a couple of bumbling idiots stumbling through a deserted castle. There wasn't a single White cloak, gold cloak, or Hightower/Targaryen guard protecting the Queen? Heleana made it all the way from her room to Alicent's which also wasn't protected, unless you count Criston Cole, and she saw no one else.
@xenosaga8436 They completely neutered Blood and Cheese. The book version of that scene is 100 times more heart-breaking and brutal than show's embarrassing joke of an adaptation.
@@xenosaga8436 Blood and Cheese was a turning point for me too. It's idiotic to have Daemon go to KL in person. But mainly it's a clear story in the book. They hold Alicent captive in her chamber waiting for Helaena to come, as she did every night, with the kids. Then they force Helaena to choose between Jaehaerys and Maelor. They removed BOTH of those elements from the story. It's creative malpractice to not see how both those elements the suspense and horror of the choice, would play on TV. I was surprised at how many people defended that watered down version.
Big disagree. I came into Season 1 fully Team Black and by the end of the driftmark episode I was entrenched in Team Green due to Alicent and Aemond's own personal plights within the familial schism.
They won't do it but they should do what Peter Jackson did with the LOTR trilogy, film the Conquest all at once. What will it be, like 3 seasons? Then they could do the production work and pickup shots in between and have a season every year instead of 2 year gaps.
Who cares?
No Got watch fan ignores anything about Aegon's conquests at that point. So what's the point.
To _SEE_ it on screen?
Don't you all have imagination to see it in your head? You really all need more CGI dragons is that it?
Is Hess part of Aegon's conquest team? If so, then we know what will happen
Fortunately she's only with House of the Dragon.
I’m think , they got another problem ,that is everyone already knew what would happened in future and cripple king Brandon got throne and a song of ice and fire is just bullshit and night king is just mere villain and even Targaryen dynasty would extinct,so however, they show a song of ice and fire or no matter what, nobody interesting , they just only watch the show because of dragons fight and gore or naked scenes , for lores and stores , everyone already knew , ending would suck anyway. Hope, book will finish in proper ending, so peoples will rewatch the show,otherwise, D and D just destroyed the whole franchise
It wasn't smart with how they tried to connect this series to the Long Night. They've made it the primary motivation now for most of the main characters, when the story George wrote was one of a split family fighting for power.
I'll say it here because it won't get deleted. The "Fandom Menace," the group of Drinker, Mauler, Nerdrotic, and others. Have one of their members bought and paid for by HBO, because of this the rest have bowed to either protect the series or not talk about it.
They trash Disney no matter what it does. They trash Amazon no matter what it does. They keep silent on HBO.
When GRRM put its blogpost out, they went with the angle of "he is irrelevant because he hasn't finished the books," Nerdrotic called him a coward.
So they trash RoP and Star Wars when they twist the source material to deliver "the message," but when HOTD does it they don't say anything? Drinker suspiciously dropped 0 videos on HOTD season 2 despite covering S1.
I want you to open your eyes here people.
Either they condemn the message equally, or they don't. You can be receiving checks on the side and still claim to be independent.
Drinker and Mauler will genuinely tell you when they like or dislike something, Gary aka Nerdrotic hated the third Star Wars trilogy and then found a formula that worked for him. His channel soared and he was hugely successful. Gary though doesn't really have a core beyond chasing the algorithm or the money. As his friends, Drinker and Mauler are letting House of the Dragon off the hook for Gary. Drinker at least hasn't covered it, Mauler has gotten down in the mud by streaming with Nerdrotic about it. Independent media is as problematic as mainstream unfortunately.
I was already wondering why Drinker, Mauler, Nerdrotic and so on didn't shred Season 2 of HotD into pieces, considering that they will trash anything else immediately, without any remorse. Them being compromised explains it tho. There was just no way that they genuinely liked it.
No one is impartial, even if they are acting in good faith.
Honestly i think the biggest problem is the budget. A show like this i think it would have been best if they pursued the animation route. That would have also eliminated concerns about actors aging, such as Maelor’s character and such, and also reduce costing for equipment and actors. And with the current budget they could easily do spectacular animation with cgi dragons
They have an animation series in development to cover the Sea Snake's journeys. It's not green lit, and it's probably unlikely after the way House of the Dragon has gone. I'd like to see some Essos focused content for animation. The Doom of Valyria would be great for an animated series.
Or what about something original for a change?
I mean, either I'm crazy, or at this point, this has been like 10 years non stop with CGI dragons on screen all the time.
And somehow, people are still saying: What do we need? ... Definitely CGI dragons. Wow, so AWSOME!!
... Can we have something new? ... Is it possible?
@@reelworld1 honestly, an animated series for aegon’s conquest with a flashback to the Doom could easily save the franchise. While i love the live action, its very expensive and due to the realism of grrm’s world, a lot of things from the books they can’t translate to live action. Additionally, if they did animation, they could easily put out 20 episode seasons a year
Can we have something without fucking 27 series attached to it?
Seriously? Back then, we had a movie. And if it was successful, maybe some books would come out to expand the universe. And then, 10 years later, maybe one of them would be adapted. ... But now, geez. The endless stream of shit shows again and again and again... You are consuming media faster than the AI can spit it out. How do you even have the time to watch all of that?
That's definitely part of the problem with the Star Wars universe. Once it went to Disney they just kept churning out mediocre to poor content. Overall if they had adapted Martin's world into a series of films it would've been a better move.
@@reelworld1 My point is that it should end. I don't care if they do a serie, or 2. Or a saga of 3-4 movies or whatever.
But just let it end.
Now we cannot have anything without being the 'cinematic universe' with 40 IP attached to it, growing like fungus.
I have in mind Kathleen Kennedy in front of a screen, presenting the upcoming 19 Star Wars shows, first of the 200 more to come.
But that's not the worst part yet!
The worst part is the endless mob of shills clapping like seals, yelling ''More!! MORE!!!!''
...
Jesus... What the hell is that?
I remember in 2005 when Revenge of the Siths came out, people were happy with it.
It's done, it's over. Let it rest a bit.
Can we let the work of G.R.R Martin to rest a bit? We throw more than a billion of dollars at that shit.
There are hundred of pieces of litterature only in fantasy that would deserve to be adapted.
Honestly, it's pathetic. Tells a lot about the average population critical mind.
Third time’s the charm ?
Hopefully....
I honestly don't understand the "fall" of the HOTD show. I know it's not 100% faithful, but GOT was not also faithful. HOTD, even with all it's shortcomings is a very good show.
You can't say the same about ROP. it is a shit show, it's garbage. It's rotten. It is nothing, not even a pinch of Tokien world. So, fans of martin, rejoice, you don't get travesty such as ROP.
George R.R. Martin himself has come out against the House of the Dragon mess. Is it better than ROP? Absolutely. I stopped watching that after its cringeworthy first season. And while HotD is certainly much more watchable than ROP, they have ruined the arcs of most of the main characters and have created what George called a toxic butterfly effect to the story.
House of the Dragon has not fallen. Stop being dramatic. The season was shortened due to budget and writing strikes. Season 3 will start with a bang
It's absolutely fallen, not like GOT but pretty seriously tho. In writing, moving away from the books and George and pushing woke bs too, lesbian kisses and dragons chasing black people on the beach. Most of the episodes in season 2 are slow, boring and with uninspiring dialogues.
Am I alone? I really enjoyed House Of The Dragon S2 and so did most of the public? What is this revisionist history? Despite what GRRM says. We live in such an outrage culture these days. GRRM is entitled to his opinion but it's also the pot calling the kettle black, he served as both a writer, producer, executive producer on the series & gave his blessing to both HBO and the showrunner to make the show from the beginning. There's a reason he took down his blog post and complaining it's because it was in poor taste and spoiling how the story unfolds. You can't take the money, serve as a creative producer, then complain publicly and malign the public to your side when a detail goes wrong, or something is not adapted exactly the way you wanted it to. He's much closer to the decision makes and creatives than we are. Why on earth would anyone ever want to work GRRM again if he's just going to use his fame and publicity to roast you online? I love GGRM but he was absolutely 100% wrong here and it's part of the problem of a creator feeling too attached to their own works after selling it off to be adapted. He should just be happy it's getting as much attention as it is and is as beloved as it is. FINISH THE BOOKS GEORGE AND MAYBE WE WON'T HAVE THESE PROBLEMS.
The problem with the HotD is the budget.
HBO has to give Ryan more money to tell the story RIGHT!
They are giving them **TWICE** what they gave Game of thrones for their season 2.
Game of thrones season 2 was good. So what's the problem?
They are starting to push more woke too
But I like House of the Dragon
I liked it too, until this season.
@@stevem2323 You don't like it anymore?
@@groupvucic2235 I don't know, i was really hyped after first season, especially when seeing the way Amazon butchered and woke-irized Tolkien. House didn't have too much of that bullshit, some diversity quota and that was it. I had high expectations and this was pretty weak. I will give the third season a chance, we will see.
I tried watching House of the dragon but only made it to episode 3 or 4
No captivating characters compared to game of thrones it was too tame, no gore or naked women I got bored real quick lol
I liked the first season but that character problem you mentioned is 100x worse in the second season.
@@gslinger
The problem for me was too much dialogue,terrible writing and not enough action
I'd love the prequel to have been the time of the Mad king and Roberts rebellion with subsequent flashbacks of Aegon the conquerer but I know this won't happen with this 100 million dollar disaster
HoTD becomes amazing at ep 5 onward lmao. You stopped right at the wrong time, when you had passed the slowest set up episodes.
@@Alejojojo6 Thanks I'll go back and watch it after work today
Edit it still boring as hell🤦🏽♂️
Tbh hotd is not as bad as ppl make it out to be, sure it has flaws from writing & hbo cutting last 2 eps in middle of production & writer strikes. But i haven't seen this lvl of disdain towards showrunner cuz they are not faithful to books, where were u guys when d&d were actively abandoning & butchering the src material ? & some ppl who were complaining were told to shup up and enjoy the spectacle.
i understand why ppl are so critical of showrunners but let's be honest , no matter how much ryan condol f up, he can't do worse than D&D.
There were two factions among book readers during GoT. There were those that began to turn on D&D as they excluded book material, particularly starting in Season 5. Then there are those that hoped despite the omissions they'd end the story well enough.
Got was well written, well paced and had many characters that you could root for.
There's plenty of this HotD thing that have none of that.
And we are 2 seasons in. And it's been the case for a while.
Got era, we were orbiting around Stannis and the Blackwater. Good shit.
@@Stephen64138 in s1-4 probably but after that nope, how to tell you haven't read the books without telling it.
@@reelworld1 nope, most books fans were initially confused but after s5 they knew & were complaining abt it but no one listened to them.
@@nirvana_helm I read all the books.
People hating to hate, sure it wasn’t as perfect as s1
But I loved s2 nonetheless and it was enjoyable. This is A+ in todays cinema
Meaning D- in 2000's cinema.
And never had gotten green clearance for 90's cinema.
Martin needs to finish the books. His partial involvement in all these things is helping nothing.
Tolkien had the decency to write down a finish work and then die...
Not sure Martin will do us the same curtesy.
"The fall of House Of The Dragon"
🙄
In my opinion House of the Dragon is a solid 8/10 show with some issues but nothing terrible by any means
Honestly i think the biggest problem is the budget. A show like this i think it would have been best if they pursued the animation route. That would have also eliminated concerns about actors aging, such as Maelor’s character and such. And with the current budget they could easily do spectacular animation with cgi dragons
You mean animated dragons?