They use it as a "love bomb" and they run away to the other further victim. They work with a chain of victims on the same time. All of them they will suffer tremendously except the narc who will enjoy celebrating about every single prey. The narc is a legend predator.
Maybe they care too much...deprived of their own emotional needs too much. My narc-like father harshly told me that he didn't want to hear about my problems because he had enough problems of his own.
@@barbarawalburn keep in mind when something happens to a narc it's always the worst thing that has ever happened to anyone at any point in time because no one its's going through anything as bad as them or worse
I'm so glad you mentioned stranger empathy. My narcissist is great at that, and she can get quite offended on a stranger's behalf, so she can put down people who don't share her "empathy".
Ugh. So true. One I knew would bully people and bait others into bullying them as well, only to publically humiliate the baited bully for being “morally denigrate for making fun of an ugly personality.” About 3 birds with one stone there.
My sibling became even worse when I became disabled. He didn’t care if I couldn’t move! He still demanded I do things for him I couldn’t do. I couldn’t believe it. If you think they’ll care when you’re at your very worst and you’re lying on the couch unable to care for yourself, they will not! He demanded I’d babysit and run his errands. He discarded me and when I blocked him had the audacity to complain about how I didn’t want anymore contact. He lies and twists everything to look like a victim. 36 years of this constant pain. He made me sick. Literally. I’m getting treatment for my several illnesses and doing much better now. I’ll never open contact with such a venomous person again.
I’m sorry for all that you have been through and I do hope you’re taking good care of yourself. It’s tough to be related to a narcissist but in a way they’re a great way of teaching others how to really love themselves. Love yourself as much as you can & continue to educate yourself on the subject so you can protect yourself & those you love.. most of all remember that their behaviour (even though aimed at you) is not about you but about them. Anytime someone is unpleasant to another human is just projecting their own pain on to others, especially narcissists. Stay strong.
I had a bad back plus fresh stitches from surgery and my sister insisted that I move furniture after my mother died and stupid me I was! I told her I can't be doing it that I could rip these stitches and she didn't care. So finally I hired a friend to come do my part in this family affair. And I'm poor. My aunt was there to help her move stuff but, nope, it was all about her and her pain of all of this being thrown on her and she was going to control it. Even if in a vicious way. Or uncaring demanding way. Yeah. They really don't care about you. Just like Dr. Ramani said. I even might have asked her, how can you be like this? How can you not know that I can't be doing this and not care? And of course, she probably deflected somehow. Also I watched one of those, "my 600 lb life" videos and Dr. Now told the lady no sex after surgery so as not to tear the stitching. She relayed this information to her boyfriend, who was hyper sexual and even cheated on her, but he would not listen and demanded and pressured her for sex anyway. She tore her stitches and they had to be resewn. What a piece of shit. Nasty! Couldn't wait.
So right! Empathy for strangers has 2 advantages for the narcissist. 1) it makes them look good, builds their image. 2) it rubs in your face what you’re being denied! Takes from their “beloved” what they were being starved of & gives to “another” who they also don’t care about but shows they care for them more than you! Diminishing you even more!
The hardest part for me was realizing not only that he didn't love me but that he also couldn't have cared less about me. It's mind altering to think anyone could be so cruel.
Fialka Vonava The fact that they aren't able to care at all was the most painful issue for me to come to terms with. It doesn't bother me now, but it still affects me in regard to my family. 😥
Cyndi Gooch Yes, the pain is crippling. It’s hard to comprehend especially if they had insisted that they loved you and you thought it was mutual. For me that was the hardest part, realising that it wasn’t real.
It used to send a chill through me seeing the emptiness in his eyes. They can feel like imposters embodying the person you love, until you realize this has been them all along.
Yes my exe's eyes were as dull as lead (like a sharks) when he spun me around 360 degrees and calculatedly threw me into the door frame (to enforce maximum damage to me)/
Empathy is a precious quality and I've learned not to squander it on people who don't/can't reciprocate it, because I've also learned that you can't change anyone but yourself.
I arrived to the same exact conclusion several years ago. There is a difference between empathy and compassion. Empathy is understanding how another feels. Compassion is about using this understanding for the best, not to hurt other people. Those are the two parts of "empathy" Dr. Ramani is talking about as I understand. I still struggle with understanding WHY someone would use their capacity for empathy to "punish" people for doing things that are not even necessarily "wrong" but merely inconvenient to them. Jealousy? Self-righteousness? Entitlement? In a word a deep level of immaturity I guess. Just like little children who are able to recognize emotions in other people but still cannot think about anyone's needs but theirs. Funny how narcissists are often described as "smart" when the altruistic part of their brain is clearly disabled. Sometimes I feel like we live in a world where often being nice and caring about others is considered stupid and being pushy and self-focused means being smart. How long can we last this way?
Another way to look at is that empathy is insight and compassion is heartfelt. It's like that automatic feeling you have when you see someone suffering. It seems like narcissists love the same way. It's all in their head, fueling a fantasy of who they think you are and what that means they are if you love them. It's never in the heart.
@@sononi4798 I like this explanation a lot actually. It would explain why it's so hard for them to leave the "switch" on - to use the terminology of the video - since processing information this way would require a lot of energy whereas, for the rest of us, a reflex is triggered. Even then it does not mean they deserve a free pass imo. We all need to work and exert some self-control in certain areas to be the person we want to be and/or that society encourages us to be. I do wonder if research is conducted on the "narcissistic brain", if there is such a thing.
Pathology isn't a road towards self-empathy, you cannot compare it to self-interest either, their condition is impaired, it's really not suppose to cause any harm. I think we should call it astray empathic.
that's whats maddening. they do play victim to gaslight you..if you did some wrong to them (usually slight/minor and you apologize right away! but you apologizing doesn't fit their narrative! they reject it)
I saw that in my father quite a few times. I spent a long time trying to decide if he had any empathy or not. Once when I was an adult and upset about something, he casually remarked that I had ‘always had a tendency towards depression’. All through my childhood & teen years I had assumed he was completely oblivious to my feelings as he never expressed any concern. When I realised he was always aware (but just didn’t care enough to try to help) it was quite an eye opener.
Oh man, I'm sorry...I know you wished he never said that. But the silver lining is he gave a gift of what to look for in someone to know to avoid them...and if you have awareness of how your parents caused trauma, you can avoid finding a partner just like them to attempt to validate what you never had...so many do that and we aren't aware...I did it. And I only now know to look for and avoid it because it happened. I hope you are better and well.
That's one of the things that's so difficult about being the scapegoat brought up by a narcissist. It's totally crazy making when you can see them be empathic with someone else, but not with you... makes you think their hatred is personal to you and there's something wrong with you. Seriously crazy making.
That's not empathy. Sounds more like the idealisation/devaluation cycle of a Borderline sufferer. Attention by idealisation is NOT being empathic. Empathy is connecting with someone on a deeper level. A kind of unconditional positive attitude. In fact the positive attention of these people is just as ego-driven and toxic as the negative one. It's just not as obvious. But "golden children" end up just as damaged because they are just ad deprived of real empathic connection.
@@petrairene I agree. But when your'e a child, you don't know that. You see someone else being treated kindly and specially, while you're repeatedly told they wish you hadn't been born and they wish they could kill you. Of course we know now what we didn't know as children.
@@jfdc8432 Yeah, plus the golden child treatment gives it a huge sense of entitlement and no frustration tolerance, minus real empathy. The recipe to breed the next narcissistic generation.
I just came out of a relationship and realized my trauma was the reason I was so people pleasing. Now I’m learning to care and be nice again! It’s tough because I’m scared and I don’t try to use it all the time because I sometimes get too involved
I knooow. It crushes me too. I was the, " human shit bag" to psychopath/narcissist. And the worst part is that when you are raised by them or trained by them for years, you stupidly attract them to you, so... they're everywhere! I have to relearn real human nature. I can do that by watching normal humans interact with these types of people. Typically, normal humans don't give narcissists the time of day. They know how to ignore them. Walk away from them. Fake politeness only to run and never connect with them again!
"They have empathy- they just choose not to use it. That is a slap across the face..." "They weaponize empathy..." Yes-yes-yes.... To me, they demonstrate (pseudo) empathy only to manipulate their victims.
The love bombing comes from pathological charming, no empathy involved, you would have to overlook they objectify you as a whole. "Any cluster B uses intermitted reinforcement" the basics of punishment and reward system (manipulation wise). Again zero empathy is needed to get in control of the whole situation.
I left mine in the middle of the love bombing phase. Even though I saw what was going on it was very difficult to do. Truthfully, I still miss her sometimes despite knowing it was all BS. These are such dangerous people and so many social "tolerances" "prevent" us from addressing them properly. It seems that people never believe you about this kind of person because we aren't supposed to think such bad things of others.
They also have a lot of empathy for others they find attractive. They would shout at you for being so cruel to the delicate little girl they love when you just asked a simple question about her.
This is a real mind blower. It's bad enough, but actually triggers compassion from me, to think that the narcissist is just incapable of empathy. It is far more difficult to deal with the idea that they are quite capable of compassion and consciously CHOOSE to be cruel and insensitive. I know you're right. The way you explain it totally resonates with my experience. I am glad to have that information but I certainly don't feel good about it.
That explains why my son's dad would sometimes connect with me when I was up to my neck with his crap and would be remorseful "feel bad" and turn around a few weeks later literally give me the middle finger and continue the same thing that I was devastated over.
Same. Mine turned fb on back on when he knew there were problems and he abused it by disrespecting me on it...he apologized but the next morning he continued to post pics living his best life when he had insisted last year we shut it off to “let ppl wonder about us”. He had wanted me to stop talking to my friends but I guess he missed his 681 friends he don’t know. 😒 claimed to not know how to deactivate but I told him he sure as hell knew how to turn it back on.
Grey Goose it’s the third time I had to jump his ass to stay off that shit. I hate Facebook so much. My ex husband cheated on me w it and once I caught him he blamed me for telling him to delete the woman from it and thought I wouldn’t know he still had her on Instagram lmao. He got so mad I caught him lie after lie. 😂💀. Idiot.
It reminds me of Harry Potter, the moment when he first came to Hogwarts and had to put on the sorting hat which asked him if he wanted to go to Slytherin and when Harry kept insisting Gryffindor, the hat said "you could be great in both" -: We all carry the same potential in ourselves, but it is up to us to choose whether we use it for the better or for the worse.
Literally no. There are brain scans of narcissists showing that they have a lack of grey matter in the regions that are responsible for compassion. They do have empathy in the sense that they understand your feelings. However, their brains are broken in the sense that they can't feel anything when others are hurt.
Omg this helps clear up SO much confusion for me! There are (few and far between) moments where I feel like "well maybe they're not a narcissist, they seem like they're empathizing with my situation and what I'm requesting". Looking back, I can definitely see where they cherry pick when they show empathy, and it's only when it's convenient for them. I remember one time in particular when I told my mother that her words were hurting me, and she said, "Well I can't worry about everything I say to you and whether or not it'll hurt your feelings! That's too much work!" I remember being just dumbfounded that she doesn't do that, because I've done that automatically for as long as I can remember. Here I am her daughter, someone she claims to love, and it was "too much work" for her to consider whether or not her words were hurtful to me before speaking, yet I literally censor my words with everyone I meet, even if it's someone I don't like! And if I say something that hurt someone, despite not intending to hurt them, I apologize and own up to what I said, let them know that I didn't intend to hurt them, but that I still apologize for hurting them, because there's so much pain in the world and I can't bear putting more pain into the world if I can prevent it. Instead of apologizing for hurting me, she told me it was too much work, lol. She's been a little better lately (thanks to boundaries my therapist has been helping me set) because I think she's realized she's going to completely lose her narcissistic supply if she continues to hurt me. I don't want to hurt her by completely cutting her off, but I also have to put my needs first for once in my life. This video really helped clarify a lot for me! Thank you, Dr. Ramani!!!
Yes, I'm someone who prefers being vulnerable. This person weaponised my vulnerabilities against me. They also took my insecurity, internalised it, then yelled at me for having and sharing that insecurity.
Bingo! My ex knew what empathy was because he demanded it from me towards him all the time. Using empathy for manipulation makes it so much worse than just not having it at all. :(
Wow! This helps so much! It is a very misunderstood aspect of narcissistic behavior and this clears up why it is so confusing and painful for me when my ex partner would turn off empathy right when I needed it most and dismiss and invalidate my feelings until I felt furious and desperate. Thank you so much for all your content and especially this! ❤️
"Sometimes they can't be bothered; it's almost like exerting that empathy muscle is effort for them" this a very chilling statement to hear I've noticed it in childhood from my older siblings.
This is one of the most relatable informative videos about narcissism. Particularly relatable to the way they can be so understanding and empathetic to suddenly completely indifferent or cold and cruel. It's just like how when they love bomb you and get you to trust them , and tell them everything, until the relationships starts going downhill and they use your weaknesses against you to really hurt and to trigger emotional crisis in people
True - he used to just lie there, then it was always "can we stop" about ten seconds in. Would get more fun out of a blow-up doll. But he used to also use it as an opportunity to make me feel bad/unwanted during the devaluation stage - irony was that he was most probably impotent from all the porn he watched. Pathetic, sick and sad - yuk!
@@starlaeuropa yes it is so pathetic and sick. Sex can be a great way to bond with your partner and feel better about oneself as well. My husband is getting very predictable. He was going through a spirt where he was calling me "ugly", a "6/10", and "not *that* pretty". He's dated prettier he said. Mind u we've been married for 15 yrs. So I told him..'what u said is laughable'. You dont need to be a "10" to have great sex. God made all kinds of people. Some are sexier to some people. Some are better looking etc but that's ridiculous to boil down a connection to physicality alone. Then next time we 'had sex' he said 'that wasnt that intense S before' 'did I even xxx?' Lol he has never said that ever all these yrs. I told him it wasnt that good for me either. It's like the more I work on myself, the less attracted he is on one level... Or feels the need to take me down a notch or two. As if he hasn't done enough damage. Saddens me to the depth of my soul I've given myself to someone who acts like this for so long
I would have to disagree, but I have heard about it both ways. My narc was incredible, probably the only time he wasn’t a selfish, stingy arse, and I have a friend whose narc husband was also great and then she dated another narc for a while and he was terrible then blamed her for it as usual.
This is an EXCELLENT video and highlights a very important point that no one addresses. Demonstrating empathy when it serves them. When my boyfriend of 6 years showed it he showed me with it, but it’s clear it’s only to pull me back in. For your own mental health and peace surround yourself with this you trust and get out. These relationships slowly erode your joy.
Survival mode is the narcissistic person's daily experience, even though they may not appear to be in a survival situation. It is likely for this reason that they seem unable to display empathy in situations where they perceive themselves as being threatened or believe they have something to lose. Many narcissistic people obviously have empathy in some situations, and narcissism is a spectrum, so the percentage of those considered "narcissists" who may also display genuine empathy at times varies. The key in most situations seems to be whether they feel that empathy will be detrimental to their survival or not. In a survival situation, empathy may not be able to be a part of the equation because caring too much about the plight of others could result in detrimental consequences for yourself. In a survival situation, trusting others, believing them or caring about them could result in yourself getting hurt. If there is one thing the narcissist person tries to avoid, it is hurt. They are concerned only with now and are unable to see or care that the behavior they are engaging in now could cause them hurt later. It doesn't matter. What matters now is feeling better now. Tomorrow will be worried about tomorrow. When you are in survival mode, you take it one day at a time. Today they are angry or sad or scared or anxious or lonely or whatever they are and they must do something about that immediately, as these feelings are dangerous to the narcissist. They are threatening. They are intolerable. The overwhelming majority of their behavior is designed to manage their internal emotional landscape in some way, but people around them may never realize the enormous amount of emotional difficulty pathologically narcissistic people are having, because so many of them are so good at hiding it. They are so good at hiding it and so disconnected from their emotions, in fact, that many narcissists don't realize it, either. They simply act - or rather, react - to their emotional state, many times without ever even acknowledging it. To put it simply, fear often cancels out empathy. Self-preservation often cancels out empathy. Survival often cancels out empathy. This facet of the human condition is explored for example on post-apocalyptic television shows such as The Walking Dead. The characters are in a survival situation, therefore they are in survival mode and often must make choices between empathy and self-preservation. Between their desire to help, trust or care versus their drive to survive and their fear of people who might harm them. They want to trust but they can't because doing so is dangerous. After too long of being in this situation and its accompanying mindset, most people - even adult people who previously did not possess any significantly toxic narcissistic personality traits - will eventually lose the desire and even ability to trust or empathize, instead perceiving everything and everyone as either resources to be exploited or threats to be neutralized because survival has reduced everything to this one basic equation. Sound familiar? This is probably why many narcissistic people do seem able to display empathy when confronted with situations they are not personally involved in, or in situations where they are not threatened in any way. They will not lose anything by identifying with the other person or people, so to do so is "safe." For example, a narcissistic person may be able to feel empathy for people involved in a bus accident that they saw on the news. Or a narcissistic doctor may feel empathy for their patients because the patients are no threat to their authority and are therefore "safe." We see this with narcissistic parents as well, when the children are too young to challenge their authority or reject them by becoming individuals. Some of this is undoubtedly image maintenance, but some of it does appear genuine. It's easy for them to have positive regard for people and things who do not - or cannot - challenge, judge or abandon them. This is underscored by the fact that if they are challenged somehow or do become involved personally, their perception of the person or situation often changes dramatically; empathy is no longer safe to offer, so it isn't. It is cancelled out by the fear, rage, shame, defensiveness and other emotions triggered by their perception of this previously "safe" person or situation viciously and unfairly turning against them. If you examine your interactions with narcissistic people - and really, their interactions with everyone - you will notice this same pattern of behavior repeating itself over and over again. And of course, some really do have no empathy at all, and what we generally find is the farther down the narcissistic spectrum someone is, the less empathy they will have. The pathologically narcissistic person's relationship with the world around them is complicated and confusing, both for them and for others who are in their lives. Everything is colored by their skewed, immature and emotionally-charged perception, and because of that, their relationships are unstable and volatile - including their relationship with themselves. As with any other person on the planet, their relationships with others are reflections of their relationship with themselves. They don't just engage in splitting with others; they also split themselves, and for the same reason. The same good/bad image they hold of others, they have of themselves - hence the false self. The same effort they expend to hide malicious, abusive behavior or betrayal is often put toward hiding silly things no one would care about, such as making a small mistake and it's done for the same reason - hence the inability to take accountability for anything, no matter how insignificant. The way they treat others is indicative of their unacknowledged feelings for themselves, which is why they are often so desperate to prove this is not true. Their perception is extremely skewed. Their perception is colored by emotions they cannot regulate or understand (or even acknowledge), dysfunctional coping mechanisms that have become pathological thought processes and knee-jerk reactions, as well as deep-seated beliefs that are often extremely illogical. Perhaps most importantly, many of them do not know that these things are true. This is why seeking help for this problem is fraught with serious issues, if it even happens. Aside from the fact that they trust no one this much - including themselves, for a narcissist to get help with these things requires them at minimum to be able to use insight which they don't have to engage in successful reality testing, which they can't do. It requires them to use their fundamentally flawed perception and corrupt thinking processes to examine their fundamentally flawed perception and corrupt thinking processes so they can identify - and correct - the flaws in this perception and these thinking processes. For all intents and purposes, this is just not possible. It's using a computer program contaminated by viruses to find the other viruses in the computer. It doesn't work because the program itself is contaminated. This perception evolved during childhood in an effort to keep the narcissist safe and has now become a pathological process that keeps them stuck in the idea that they are not safe - ever. All facets of the pathologically narcissistic person come back to this one thing when examined. Any efforts to convince them this is not true are experienced as manipulation, because why would you want to tell me I'm safe here with you when clearly I am not? But they are not safe anywhere and it's because they cannot even trust themselves, their feelings or their own perception, much less their ability to fulfill their own needs and care for themselves. Sadly, their dysfunction has evolved in such as way as to "protect" them from exactly what they need to understand in order to make things better. It's a tragic situation in many ways, but you can't fix it. There is nothing to fix; this is what they are. The "bad" side of the narcissist is part of that, just like the "good" side is. These things cannot be separated.
Just keep in mind the cruel things said and done I think they try to get us to feel pity for them but they really have no feelings for us. So sad but it is their choice. Carry on , be happy and let them FIND THEIR OWN HAPPY PLACE. That’s their job not ours.
I was a pathological liar at 13, a precursor to a personality disorder like narcissism. I remember what it felt like to be in my head. I started as an empath. I felt everything deeply, but one day, I got the message that I was all wrong and the pain felt too painful because it wouldn't stop. It kept repeating, "You're all wrong". I was ashamed of myself and the voice inside my head turned on me in the most hateful way. You know the voice that I'm talking about. It isn't a hallucination. It's the voice that polices us and replays every bad thing that anybody ever said to us. The self-hate voice became stronger than my real self and then became the mask that my insecure, real self hid behind. I became disconnected, as if my real self had become so small that it almost didn't exist. I stopped self-reflecting. After telling myself the lies I said about myself, it wasn't hard to also tell myself lies about others. I would act impulsively and tell lies that I didn't need to tell. It started as a self-protection, but then it became a habit, as if I was fabricating the world that I wanted. At first, I didn't hurt others on purpose. They were just collateral damage as I would self-protect. I'd justify my actions by telling myself lies about the other person. I got really good at imagining the worst possible intentions. Of course their intentions were bad because, if I am not worthy of love, why would anybody have good intentions toward me anyway? I would then flip the script in my head and become indignant that they had treated me the way that my lies told me they had. Just because I hated myself, it didn't mean that others could treat me badly. How dare they! It is as if the lies I had to tell myself became the foundation for an amplified sense of entitlement. If the world was as bad as I imagined it to be, then I was a victim of it rather than a predator. Then I went numb. I felt like I had lost myself and I felt dead inside. Hurting others was a way to feel powerful as an alternative way to feel something. When I was scheming, it was a time that my mental abuser was occupied in an activity other than tormenting me. When I would scheme, I didn't feel worthless when I could feel intellectually superior over another. I was no longer in touch with the person locked up inside of my head. If I dared to exist, the abuser that was my mask and jailer and voice inside my head would say things to me that even my narcissist wouldn't say to another person yet. I had a sense of who I had been before that I felt the loss of myself. If I didn't have a sense of myself, I'd have felt no loss and no intervention could have saved me because my real self had to have a reason to want to fight to exist. 27 years later, leaving the narcissist I had been in a 20 year relationship with felt very similar to breaking free from the narcissist in my head. Both times, I wanted to break free because I was existing without living. Both times I was forced to live in a mental prison of self-hate. But, at 13, my intervention came in the form of a computer because I would sit and write. As I wrote, I would self-reflect. I never wrote without tears streaming down my face. I was feeling. Self-reflecting made me find myself again. Also, the external love of my dad was a factor who somehow finally had time for me. He never had time for me before, but it was in asking him for computer help that I realized that he never turned me away and that he actually seemed to want me around. He just didn't know how to connect. That's fine. I had a liar in me who knew how to fabricate reasons to connect with him. He always treated me as if I was good enough and that allowed me the courage to gain the courage to face myself again. He also gave me a different narrative about people that made me start to exercise that muscle in perspective-taking. When I think about the amount of courage that it took to face myself again, I don't honesty know how it was possible. If I was too ashamed of myself to exist authentically before, how would I possibly face myself after the things that I'd done and how would I learn to stop the impulses to lie when I had been living a lie before? Well, maybe because I grew up as a thrill-seeker. Maybe because my ADHD couldn't handle the mental space that it took to be a narcissist, but honestly, I think the most likely thing is that I was more afraid of existing in life without ever really living again. Fear of living my whole life while being dead inside was more terrifying than facing myself and all of my guilt. If my sense of self had already been murdered by years of abuse, I don't think that I'd have had enough of a sense of myself to care. However, I remembered feeling joy and I remembered the journeys that my imagination would take before the voice took over. So, I guess all of that is to say that, yes, I'd have twinges of guilt that I would quickly bury by telling myself stories about another person and then letting my real self just keep fading or going to sleep. One lie of self-justification that I tell myself about another person that serves to allow me to make them a monster is nothing when everything I am and everything I am living is a lie. Please don't take my story as some kind of hope that narcissist change. Remember, I was only 13 and my brain was still developing. Instead, see that your narcissist is not self-reflecting. They don't make any lasting change. You have to back them into a corner and make their lives significantly uncomfortable to get a small and temporary change. That doesn't happen with people who self-reflect. You know this because you self-reflect. You think about your disagreements with other people when you calm down and then realize that there are some things you could have done differently. Your narcissist doesn't want to come out because their abuser and mask is a comfort to them in the sense that it hides their shame. All you've ever seen is their mask. Don't lie to yourself to think that you even know them. They won't make themselves that vulnerable.
Thank you for addressing this. In my humble opinion, narcissists, and sociopaths have the capacity to be empathetic when they choose. The narcissist is most likely to be empathetic when they are grooming their new supply. That empathy totally disappears when they are finished with that source of supply.
This is so helpful and explains my confusion with why my sibling can appear that they care, and then say and do the most hurtful, selfish things. Your explanations have helped me to sort this out. Thank you Doctor Ramani.
This video really resonated with my story. One month my sister and I are on the phone to each other crying and talking about our fathers narc and abusive behavior. The next she uses almost word for word the same thing he said when he discarded me. So yeh, seems like it's there, but boy do they have little qualm of weaponizing vulnerable moments. Anyway stay alert all! and thank you Dr Ramani. Your videos got me through some really confusing dark times.
My Malignant older sister did just that to me as well, Really such a Bit~h. I have not talked to her since. Been years now. Went no contact with the rest of the family soon after. Not missing them.
I agree, Narc DO NOT CHOOSE to have empathy. Recently, my AH Narc told me how he felt sorry for a person we know who had back surgery. "Poor woman, she is in so much pain, she can't work anymore." I was boiled! I have had back surgery also. I have titanium screws & plates up & down my spine---he NEVER gives me compassion. In fact, he makes fun of my disability. He weaponizes his empathy with me, & offers compassion to others in front of them. I have been discarded while still in this person's life.
Gift giving is an excellent way to discern a narcissist. My mother used to give me her LEFTOVERS and act like I was getting a Rolls Royce! One Christmas she packed up all of her old socks with her dog's hair on it & gave them to me as a present. She said to me, "It seems to me you were a good girl this year!" She knew damn well her so-called gift was a dig and she wanted my reaction. I didn't give her the opportunity. I said, "Oh thank you! I appreciate your thoughtfulness!" What a demonic witch. 👹
Yes they have empathy , you are brilliant ! I’ve felt logically understood by the narcissist i know . He is very covert and I wasn’t aware why I have felt so depressed and confused since I’ve known him I blamed myself for a long time . If I try to bring up how he’s hurt me he gets angry , and seems to care massively about proving his point as in making me see his point, and wanting me to think positive of him again . If I stand my ground , then hours , days and sometimes a week later he does show empathy. It’s like in the moment any tiny negative thing you feel against them is so damaging to their ego the insecurity within them must be protected . It has to be protected first before they can truly lower their defense .
So empathy is a quality which we use to care about others. But empathy to the Narc is a quality to care about themselves (and to destroy others). Great point Doc!!
I’ve wondered that too. My husband will totally put me down one minute, but then will be polite to a stranger the next. I’ve given up even saying “bless you” when he sneezes since he doesn’t say “thank you”. Yet if he sneezes in public and someone says it to him he will thank them.
Leslie That’s really how it is, they are nice to literally everyone, even giving to charity to look like they are doing good. Yet turn around and put me down the next breath.
They like to make a good impression in public. I used to think that my ex-husband was so especially un-nice to me because he thought it was weak to be nice. Good neighbour Sam to all and sundry away from our home though.
Hey, I left my ex boyfriend who was narcisstic the day after valentinesday. Because something has happened and that was the it! I couldn’t do this anymore and realised that all he did was not going to change and especially was not forgivable. I have found you and you have enlightened me so much! Because of you I am going through this with a clear mind and healing the right way all because of you. Thank you for you everything you say... it means the world in this difficult time.
That part about experiencing what we believe is true empathy... Then all of a sudden it's turned off.... Those are the moments that I see in my nightmares. Like for real. There is nothing more horrifying than experiencing that as a child from the one who's supposed to protect you.
I know what you are going through! I can only recommend doing therapy if you aren't already. I never wanted to do one until I had a major breakdown and now I wonder how and why I have dealt with all my shit alone for most of my life!
Thank you Dr. Ramani. That was the missing puzzle piece. What you explain in this video is the most valuable information because it clarifies the confusion which comes from them being really able to connect IF IT IS CONVENIENT FOR THEM. Everywhere you hear that they lack empathy but I haven’t come across the information that even neurologically it shows that they have the full capacity for empathy but choose not to use it as soon as they cannot be bothered and yet this is the typical devastating experience people have with them.
"weaponized empathy" . . . YES! I've never heard it put that way, but it's so true! And that was a really good point about "stranger empathy." It is so unsettling and confusing.
I was in awe this morning! He says to me , regarding our teen daughter, " I have been thinking back on the times I yelled at Violet and the awful things I have said to her . I feel a lot of remorse for that " Wow
Thank you Dr. Ramani for the insightful teachings and knowledge. My limited personal experiences with narcissists convinced me that they DO NOT have any empathy what so ever. Their reactions towards emotions - such as angry, sadness, depression or joy - are usually blank and awkward. If you're not aware, you might think that these narcissists are just rather calm and cool compared to others. In my opinion, narcissists are merely generally observant of the situation at hand and extremely opportunistic, willing to seize any opportunity of studying and manipulating their target person by catering to his/her emotional state at that particular moment.
This I feel is spot on! My dear wife was raised by two narcissistic parents and she didn't fall far from that tree. Pretentious and superficial relationships is all they were capable of giving.
This is quite chilling because it so perfectly describes my ex’s father’s behaviour. My ex’s mother was always confused about how her ex husband would be so nice to flower sellers on the street and how he’d go out of his way to help virtual strangers but how he apparently didn’t care about the effects his ‘gruffness’ had on her and her daughter.
This is SOOOOOOOO good. Definitely the most accurate and insightful explanation I’ve heard yet. SO SO SO TRUE! They use empathy as just another tool in their toolbox to serve themselves and their selfish desires. Great clip Dr. Ramani 🙌🏻
I like to say that they lack real "sincere" empathy, but sure they know that doing something nice, or pretending to care can convince more victims. As soon as they have a trapped victim the abuse starts. AKA. of course, the honey moon phase. So they essentially use our understanding of empathy as a weapon. They choose to use it that way. I think they do lack "real" empathy, because to them empathy is a bargaining chip to use later on (sooner rather than later) to get a victim under control. or to do anything for them that is often disproportionate. Empathy is not saying "OOOOOH, i feel bad that your dog died, but how BAAAD do you feel about me feeling bad for you??? because...i feel bad for you, but what about you telling me how bad you feel for me" LOL. "I feel bad for you, so ...do you want to go buy me some groceries?" Again, they weaponize their "fake" empathy.
ILLAngel101 very true. The term for what you’re describing is cognitive empathy. It’s when narcs use it to get their way, to make it “look like they care,” but it’s all just fake. Later on, the situation that they were supposedly empathetic about is the one that they devalue you for. I think they mimic the emotions that they see in the movies and what at least what they perceive to be empathy, just to show they’re human, but they don’t feel it like normal people do. That’s how medical professionals (doctors, nurses), lawyers, and careers that are aimed at helping people have some of the most dangerous narcissists who get away with a lot because they use cognitive empathy to groom their patients or clients and eventually abuse them, and nobody thinks they could do any wrong because of the mask that they put on in different settings. Good examples: a police offficer that commits the perfect murder, or a priest that molests the altar boys. They’re recognized as being humble and sweet, and their careers revolve around acts of service, so they couldn’t do any wrong. Scary and disturbing.
Ha ha well said, covert is 81 and loaded. Her neighbour who cooked for her when she had the flu even gave her cat food money! I've been a stay at home mom for 24 yrs, I keep the system away from my kids as much as possible. When she was 70 she suggested that I start supporting her, fat chance, my husband is so cheap he squeaks when he walks!
They know how to Mimic feelings, not that they don't have them, and when they do it quite simply because they are ashamed they got caught either in lye or some other dishonest cheating action .
@@joseenoel8093 I dont blame you, same with family here too. Left them years ago. So much time has passed it would be utterly awkward to try to pick up up their pieces they decided to shatter snd work on something they have no clue on what family is about. What system are you saying about, schools?
They enjoy "not" extending empathy because they are very much pleasured by observing someone's suffering. Alleviating someone's suffering would be contraindicated to these cruel predators. The only effort they put out is to help that person suffer more. I've witnessed this firsthand. The more he twisted his knife the more he would grin with delight and a few times he was completely unable to hold back from laughing right out loud. 👹 It was shockingly demonic! Good Deeds were only done for an audience and the drama involved with those Skits where worthy of an Academy Award.
Incredible points Dr.Ramani this made me realize that narcs do use empathy to get what they need from you in the moment and then later when you are vulnerable and craving for them to be kind to you they make jokes out of your struggle and mock you when you least expect it. Intermittent reinforcement!!! This is why we feel so confused by them! Powerful knowledge here!
Oh wow, this video explains so much about what I experienced. When we first met, he listened to me for hours on end and I thought that I found someone to confide in. Gradually he started reducing the amount of time we would spend talking and made it purely physical. I was running to him like a junkie because I was craving that time when he would listen and be there with me. But it never happened again. Every time he pushed my boundaries further and further until it became plain abuse. He knew exactly what to say to me afterwards to make me feel better and I stayed addicted to him and kept enduring the abuse. He told me I'm crazy and unstable and that he knows better what my body likes and needs. It ended after one year when I learned that he was sleeping with my friend. It is only now that I fully understand what happened - it's called "weaponizing empathy". I never realized he's a narcissist because he seemed so empathetic. Thank you Dr. Ramani
Ooh thanks so much for explaining this! This aspect has always confused me. My mother is a shoe-in for every other narcissist trait, but I'm sure I've seen empathy from her occasionally. That has been the biggest reason I've been lowkey scared of misjudging her. But empthay from time to time, withholding when it's not convenient, and weaponizing is exactly what I've seen. Best way I can describe it is that their compassion for themselves comes first, second, and third. Fourth and fifth too lol. After that, she can have empathy when it ultimately benefits her. Or when it's a situation where she is not threatened in any way (aka pure pity at the right time). For example, genuinely crying for victims of a mass shooting. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.
Great the way you told this story. Perfectly demonstrates “selective empathy. These reviews help so many in a state of confusion. By people sharing their stories it give others the clarity and certainty to get away, to love themselves enough to want to protect themselves.
I've been listening to you for many months now, your insighr into this topic is stunning, at least when I reflect in my personal experience. Please do not stop, you have a unique and outstanding (this is an understatement) insight into this extraordinary behaviour. Thank you so much for your commitment and dedication. I continue to learn from you 🙏
He caused estrangement with my family and used my grief as a weapon to blame and shame me. When I had an emotional breakdown, he merely grinned and took pleasure in saying "you need help", "you are crazy". My daughter and I have actually seen him be caring, thoughtful and generous to strangers. When my daughter said to asked him why he treats strangers better than us, he told her to "shut up"! This video was bang on!
Wow Dr. Ramani, thank you so much for the clarification. I actually used those words with my former narcissist fiance, after he flew out of my life for 18 months, then breezed back in. Upon explaining his surprise & unexpected return, he claimed, "I didn't want to bother you." I responded with, "No, you just didn't want to be bothered." He's been out of my life for 3 1/2 years.
I think you are right here, although I'm not sure choosing is necessarily the best word. I think it's a mistaken perception that narcissists are in control, but one observation I've noticed is that Narcissistic traits seem to increase or stabilise depending on the amount of 'pain' the narcissist is experiencing, or lack of control they feel. I think the reality is their own needs will always supersede anyone else's.
Thank you @DoctorRamani I emailed you related to the very same topic and this helped me clear up the confusion around a person I was involved with at one moment having empathy and at another lacking it entirely. It was actually one of the reasons I never saw how he was using and manipulating me, and hurting me. Because he seemed to care. Unfortunately for me, I had to hit rock bottom before I understood, and bump into one of your videos which now feels like heaven sent.
Awesome explanation. I wish everyone that has dealt with this issue could go back in time... Things would be much different now that I KNOW. That you Doctor!!!
This speaks to the severity of this disorder and just how impossible it is to cure such a damaged person. I think it also highlights the degree to which the narcissist is "evil" (for lack of better word).
@@rcomyns4664Thank you. I have met a very beautiful and compassionate man. We’ll be married in the new year. All the very best to you as you navigate the tricky fallout. Warmest wishes.
Whenever someone asks you questions that completely expose your vulnerability but offer nothing in return, that's a red flag you're dealing with someone who is gathering a profile on you to use it as a weapon if ever needed
Thank you for making these videos on personality disorders. I can tell you have a deep passion for what you do, and you are amazing at explaining challenging concepts. I have been trying to figure out what my problem is for years. After watching several of your videos over the past week I feel a lot closer to understanding.
Dr. Ramani you have helped me so much. I’ve left a really toxic work place and have found a wonderful new job and am so soothed by yours and others TH-cam videos
Oh my Gosh, Dr. Ramani. Just this morning I had a flashback of a moment when a narcissist in my life behaved really thoughtfully and sweetly to me. There were lots of moments like that. This specific memory I had felt bittersweet and made me a bit confused. Then, I thought about how malignant narcissists use confusion as a tactic (they also thrive on chaos, or so it seems to me). But this video has just clarified things for me even more. The timing has been perfect. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I’ve been suffering with PTSD for years now, because of horrible narcissistic abuse. I don’t know that I will ever completely heal, but this knowledge is extremely important.
I too suffer PTSD.. Apologies have been few and far between with my narc. It was always my problem not his...Finally after over3 decades i learned about narc behavior...glad to have this knowledge and am trying to heal from my traumatic journey...Thank you for posting your informative videos...
When they go out of their way to hurt you on purpose, with financial abuse, like not paying support, ghosting you and their youngest teen they abandoned, spreading lies, and being downright mean, they’re reacting to the pain of no longer receiving the attention and love they feel they deserve and are weaponizing their empathy.
Absolutely love this!!! These thoughts have been in my mind for years. Can I give you an example of what I’ve noticed...Certain narcs I’ve had in my life were the absolute greatest crusaders for me when someone else did me wrong...but if they had done the exact same thing to me, there “deep shame about themselves” put them in fight mode instead. It’s been amazing how above and beyond these people went for me (as long as they weren’t the one who did it).
Empathy switched off, Chilling is an understatement, its frightening and deeply disturbing and next thing is they start to bury you alive. But chilling is the first feeling!
My narc ex would never stand up for me if I was being harrassed/threatened by other men, but he would be the first to play the white knight if it was a stranger or female friend. It was so incredibly hurtful and invalidating to witness, knowing that if it was me, he would literally pretend it wasn't happening .
🤯🤯🤯🤯 this explains everything now! Wow! He did everything you described in this video. I would think all the time “How can this man be sooo understanding & my shoulder to cry on sometimes but then use every single thing I said to him in those moments or any moment for that matter & use it all against me! Even threatening to tell those people what I said about whatever the situation was, once even threatened to tell my son how I was feeling negatively about him at one point. Not fair, not cool. Wow, just everything you said here hit home for me for sure. Thankfully he is now my ex.
I have a spouse with ADHD. He used to struggle quite a bit with sustaining empathic attunement, but it was more an attentional issue (limited cognitive resources if something else was in his focus or more stimulating than our interaction for whatever reason). It can indeed feel chilling to have someone Completely oriented to you and then suddenly completely off in another world.
This is golden! What juicy critical thinking! We need more of this! I once brought this question up and got viciously shut down by fellow victims. We have to open ourselves up to the possibilities of understanding NPD beyond our own understanding, otherwise how else can we get closer to their true nature? You’re an absolutely outstanding human Dr Ramani!
Oh my god this was hard.... but so needed. THANK YOU!! The narcissist in my family is my mom; she used to tell me " I love you so much you will never be able to comprehend how much I love you, you'll never understand" but somehow it's a sentence that always felt empty. She was always so lovely and empathic in front of other people and then the mask would come off when we were alone and she'd start berating me and my father. Your books and your content are helping me SO MUCH! Thank you. I am struggling to find a therapist specialising in narcissism. Could you refer me to anyone in Germany?
I agree. They are not void of empathy. They just see empathy as a weakness and a vulnerability. They like being dark and cruel. They like using people. They love being controlling and manipulative. If they allowed themselves to be empathetic, they would not be able to exercise all of those things I mentioned above.
I completely agree, they have empathy and see when they really hurt you and clearly take pleasure in it. Some are much more sadistic than others and I have seen the really sadistic ones will appear to show a bit of empathy if they can show it toward someone who worships them in order to hurt one they hate and are jealous of. I have also seen it is mostly words in the moment seldom any kind of real actions.
FASCINATING! I have OFTEN struggled with this question. I feel like most descriptions of narcissists say that they simply lack empathy. But my experience has been so confusing precisely because they do seem to have empathy, but just don't use it with regularity. Being on the receiving end of their behavior in the absence of empathy is so disturbing and disorienting. It leaves me wondering how intentional it is, if they are aware of the hurt they are causing and if they feel justified. I have gone blue in the face trying to explain to them (narc mom, sister, ex partners) how what they did was not ok, was abusive, etc to no avail. It is hard to accept that they just don't care.
The ex-narc exuded "fake empathy" with me during our first few years. At first, I thought that was just his way of showing that he "cared" (despite it feeling very odd). However, with time, it just seemed that he was faking it. I never experienced a moment with him where it felt real or natural. He was so cold. he first discarded his parents, then his sons (one with downs syndrome), and then me (of course). He really doesn't care about anyone but himself. I remember, shortly after the discard, when I saw his true self. He was so ugly. The fake empathy wasn't much better, but the true lack of empathy was sickening. How could I have been with this man for 4 years? I have been single since this relationship ended because I am still confused about how I had been fooled. I do not want to be fooled again.
Thankyou ! Amazing information on this facet of narcissism. Love the way you explained the details, as well as how to see this, and what exactly to do with it.❤️
Dr. Ramani : I do not have words to express how grateful I am to hear this information. I have struggled with understanding this for decades. I understand now and I am learning to not be surprised by anything he does or says. I am hoping this knowledge will change the dynamics of me being triggered by his behavior to me saying to myself “I understand why you are doing this. “ It is what it is. I hope this will give me some peace in this arrangement. ( it is not a relationship). Thank You.
My experience with a lot of narcs tells me that narc has cognitive empathy, they know what people feel, but they have no compassion, no feelings, really empty, zero, nada. This would explain why we don't see "cured" narc. When narcs show "empathy", in the loving bombing phase (LBF), or sometimes in the devaluation phase (DF), it is because they did something much more terrible with someone else (appearing to be good at LB with the new supply) or with the target (at DF). If a narc did something good, something opposite happened symmetrically, but much worse.
This makes alot of sense. It's like when they're in new relationship you get treated like trash but once that relationship ends your love bombed again. The narcissist is too exhausted trying to care for one person that he can't even bother with the other. Tired of narcissist and tired of hating them also
@@memes.1114 What looks like a narc's "empathy" in the loving bombing of new supplies, showing how well they treat, in fact, this action is a (1) punishment for the discarded one, (2) a trap to hook up the new supply and (3) protect the false self from accusations. Even kindness can be a weapon, and that's what narcos do. If I see them treating someone very well, for me it means that they did something evil behind, and no one will believe that such a "person" tried to destroy the discarded one.
@@memes.1114 Instead of waste your energy hating them, it is better to look for virtues (wisdom, humbleness, patience...). Improve your self, be so good that when they see your success and try to reach you, you will say "sorry, go in peace" because you are busy with your new life. Let as virtues use you, abundantly.
Dr. Ramani, you are such a beautiful genius, after me watching over two thousand videos, you finally said what I was thinking deep within my soul when you said they are refusing to use their empathy sometimes... this is why I always call narcissist in general mean and evil people because they are refusing to use the empathy..... Thank you so much, I love you for this.... narcissist are not sociopaths, so what you are saying is absolutely correct.... narcissist know what they are doing when they hurt people..... some of them will even refuse to apologize, when I was with my ex narcissist, I used to have to tell him to apologize to me, but he inherently knew that he owed me an apology for all the hurt and pain that he caused me, I could even cry and he would hesitate to apologize... my ex narcissist became more cold over time.... Great job...
In my experience, the covert ones do have some empathy and they use it to seem vulnerable and to create rapport, but the true NPD just doesn't get it even if someone explains it to him/her (my ...so called mother...), they just see what others do and fake it to some extent, manipulating it knowing there will be a reward for them for faking it.
@John May Thank you for your words, my dad was absent, first emotionally then just left, cause he was just as abused as I was... then he died... not a bad personality but ineffective as a parent. I had grandparents until 9 y.o., they died too... then my only favourite uncle, then my only favourite aunt...yep. all dead a loooong time ago. Guess who's still alive and well? Yep, the NPD borderline so called mother...
I thank you so much for your videos Dr Ramani. This is so true. I shared also nearly everthing with a narcisststic partner. It took me a long, hurtful way to understand how a narcissist copes with their lack of empathetic emotions. They have a better cognitive analytical ability to understand them. Their capability to analyze a script of an emotional story shared by their partners is frequently superior to that of an empath. They can analyze a story told by their partner objectively and identify weaknesses to compensate for their own lack of genuine emotions.
Every single narcissist I've ever encountered wants you to care about them but they don't want to care about you.
Ohhhh yeah. They LOVE having double standards.
So true
But why!!
Absolutely💯‼️🎯
Yes they get sick and you better stop and take care of them and forget any part of you life. I get sick he didn't care. I was so alone.
Yes, they do have "selective empathy" and they use it according to their moods and also motives.
Absolutely their kindness is interested.
100% agree with you.
They use it as a "love bomb" and they run away to the other further victim. They work with a chain of victims on the same time. All of them they will suffer tremendously except the narc who will enjoy celebrating about every single prey. The narc is a legend predator.
My sister act like that maybe because of her pills or
And the selective empathy is more likely to be towards other random people…
"It’s not that they’re unaware, it’s that they don’t care " ~ Dr. George Simon
EXACTLY! And, to quote George Simon again, "They are like a cat playing with a mouse before killing it." Narcissists do not care about the mouse.
Only if it affects them
They care! They get supply from hurting you.
Maybe they care too much...deprived of their own emotional needs too much. My narc-like father harshly told me that he didn't want to hear about my problems because he had enough problems of his own.
@@barbarawalburn keep in mind when something happens to a narc it's always the worst thing that has ever happened to anyone at any point in time because no one its's going through anything as bad as them or worse
I'm so glad you mentioned stranger empathy. My narcissist is great at that, and she can get quite offended on a stranger's behalf, so she can put down people who don't share her "empathy".
Ugh. So true.
One I knew would bully people and bait others into bullying them as well, only to publically humiliate the baited bully for being “morally denigrate for making fun of an ugly personality.” About 3 birds with one stone there.
My sibling became even worse when I became disabled. He didn’t care if I couldn’t move! He still demanded I do things for him I couldn’t do. I couldn’t believe it. If you think they’ll care when you’re at your very worst and you’re lying on the couch unable to care for yourself, they will not! He demanded I’d babysit and run his errands. He discarded me and when I blocked him had the audacity to complain about how I didn’t want anymore contact. He lies and twists everything to look like a victim. 36 years of this constant pain. He made me sick. Literally. I’m getting treatment for my several illnesses and doing much better now. I’ll never open contact with such a venomous person again.
Love yourself...😭 That's horrible, really horrible, God forgive these him
@LegOver Lass Unbelievable, this man is a savage
I’m sorry for all that you have been through and I do hope you’re taking good care of yourself. It’s tough to be related to a narcissist but in a way they’re a great way of teaching others how to really love themselves. Love yourself as much as you can & continue to educate yourself on the subject so you can protect yourself & those you love.. most of all remember that their behaviour (even though aimed at you) is not about you but about them. Anytime someone is unpleasant to another human is just projecting their own pain on to others, especially narcissists. Stay strong.
I had a bad back plus fresh stitches from surgery and my sister insisted that I move furniture after my mother died and stupid me I was! I told her I can't be doing it that I could rip these stitches and she didn't care. So finally I hired a friend to come do my part in this family affair. And I'm poor. My aunt was there to help her move stuff but, nope, it was all about her and her pain of all of this being thrown on her and she was going to control it. Even if in a vicious way. Or uncaring demanding way. Yeah. They really don't care about you. Just like Dr. Ramani said. I even might have asked her, how can you be like this? How can you not know that I can't be doing this and not care? And of course, she probably deflected somehow. Also I watched one of those, "my 600 lb life" videos and Dr. Now told the lady no sex after surgery so as not to tear the stitching. She relayed this information to her boyfriend, who was hyper sexual and even cheated on her, but he would not listen and demanded and pressured her for sex anyway. She tore her stitches and they had to be resewn. What a piece of shit. Nasty! Couldn't wait.
Love Yourself n
So right! Empathy for strangers has 2 advantages for the narcissist. 1) it makes them look good, builds their image. 2) it rubs in your face what you’re being denied! Takes from their “beloved” what they were being starved of & gives to “another” who they also don’t care about but shows they care for them more than you! Diminishing you even more!
I like this: "You're not wanting to Believe you have been Played. And the hardest thing is You have to realize They never cared." Lorrie Kelly
Fialka Vonava So true! 😞
The hardest part for me was realizing not only that he didn't love me but that he also couldn't have cared less about me. It's mind altering to think anyone could be so cruel.
Fialka Vonava The fact that they aren't able to care at all was the most painful issue for me to come to terms with. It doesn't bother me now, but it still affects me in regard to my family. 😥
Cyndi Gooch Yes, the pain is crippling. It’s hard to comprehend especially if they had insisted that they loved you and you thought it was mutual. For me that was the hardest part, realising that it wasn’t real.
It used to send a chill through me seeing the emptiness in his eyes. They can feel like imposters embodying the person you love, until you realize this has been them all along.
Yes my exe's eyes were as dull as lead (like a sharks) when he spun me around 360 degrees and calculatedly threw me into the door frame (to enforce maximum damage to me)/
Well said!
Imposters. Great word! Perfect actually, like a thief. They steal your empathy, care and love under false pretenses.
excellent description
"Until you realize this has been them all along..." **That part**
Yep. Hard, hurts, but true, so much better to live in the light.
Step over your body when they don’t need you...how accurate!...the way they use empathy is definitely transactional and very disturbing...
Ha ha, kick it aside 'cause you're in the way!
time to find a new supply ---they use people as tools
@@joseenoel8093 sooooo true
“Step over your body” got me too. Very accurate.
jaim haas so true so many people in this world are narcissistic
Empathy is a precious quality and I've learned not to squander it on people who don't/can't reciprocate it, because I've also learned that you can't change anyone but yourself.
Yes I agree and I would argue they are high in empathy because they use that to manipulate you. I would say they lack compassion.
They also have compassion, they choose when to show it just like empathy.
I arrived to the same exact conclusion several years ago. There is a difference between empathy and compassion. Empathy is understanding how another feels. Compassion is about using this understanding for the best, not to hurt other people. Those are the two parts of "empathy" Dr. Ramani is talking about as I understand. I still struggle with understanding WHY someone would use their capacity for empathy to "punish" people for doing things that are not even necessarily "wrong" but merely inconvenient to them. Jealousy? Self-righteousness? Entitlement? In a word a deep level of immaturity I guess. Just like little children who are able to recognize emotions in other people but still cannot think about anyone's needs but theirs. Funny how narcissists are often described as "smart" when the altruistic part of their brain is clearly disabled. Sometimes I feel like we live in a world where often being nice and caring about others is considered stupid and being pushy and self-focused means being smart. How long can we last this way?
Sierra More, right?!?!
Another way to look at is that empathy is insight and compassion is heartfelt. It's like that automatic feeling you have when you see someone suffering. It seems like narcissists love the same way. It's all in their head, fueling a fantasy of who they think you are and what that means they are if you love them. It's never in the heart.
@@sononi4798 I like this explanation a lot actually. It would explain why it's so hard for them to leave the "switch" on - to use the terminology of the video - since processing information this way would require a lot of energy whereas, for the rest of us, a reflex is triggered. Even then it does not mean they deserve a free pass imo. We all need to work and exert some self-control in certain areas to be the person we want to be and/or that society encourages us to be. I do wonder if research is conducted on the "narcissistic brain", if there is such a thing.
DAAAAAAAAAMN. DR. RAMANI BE DROPPING KNOWLEDGE BOMBS LEFT AND RIGHT
Oh yes they have empathy -- for themselves.
Bevinda C Yes
Empathy doesn’t work that way lol. That’s simply called having emotions
Pathology isn't a road towards self-empathy, you cannot compare it to self-interest either, their condition is impaired, it's really not suppose to cause any harm. I think we should call it astray empathic.
that's whats maddening. they do play victim to gaslight you..if you did some wrong to them (usually slight/minor and you apologize right away! but you apologizing doesn't fit their narrative! they reject it)
Very TRUE
I saw that in my father quite a few times. I spent a long time trying to decide if he had any empathy or not. Once when I was an adult and upset about something, he casually remarked that I had ‘always had a tendency towards depression’. All through my childhood & teen years I had assumed he was completely oblivious to my feelings as he never expressed any concern. When I realised he was always aware (but just didn’t care enough to try to help) it was quite an eye opener.
Like my father
Oh man, I'm sorry...I know you wished he never said that. But the silver lining is he gave a gift of what to look for in someone to know to avoid them...and if you have awareness of how your parents caused trauma, you can avoid finding a partner just like them to attempt to validate what you never had...so many do that and we aren't aware...I did it. And I only now know to look for and avoid it because it happened. I hope you are better and well.
That's one of the things that's so difficult about being the scapegoat brought up by a narcissist. It's totally crazy making when you can see them be empathic with someone else, but not with you... makes you think their hatred is personal to you and there's something wrong with you. Seriously crazy making.
Sphynx Yes exactly.
That's not empathy. Sounds more like the idealisation/devaluation cycle of a Borderline sufferer. Attention by idealisation is NOT being empathic. Empathy is connecting with someone on a deeper level. A kind of unconditional positive attitude. In fact the positive attention of these people is just as ego-driven and toxic as the negative one. It's just not as obvious. But "golden children" end up just as damaged because they are just ad deprived of real empathic connection.
@@petrairene I agree. But when your'e a child, you don't know that. You see someone else being treated kindly and specially, while you're repeatedly told they wish you hadn't been born and they wish they could kill you. Of course we know now what we didn't know as children.
@@jfdc8432 Yeah, plus the golden child treatment gives it a huge sense of entitlement and no frustration tolerance, minus real empathy. The recipe to breed the next narcissistic generation.
@@petrairene Wow - I hadn't thought of that! I totally see that, now that you point it out!
I just came out of a relationship and realized my trauma was the reason I was so people pleasing. Now I’m learning to care and be nice again! It’s tough because I’m scared and I don’t try to use it all the time because I sometimes get too involved
The fact that I've lived this life is crushing.
tell me about it. be kind to yourself. Still learning myself..
No kidding!
I knooow. It crushes me too. I was the, " human shit bag" to psychopath/narcissist. And the worst part is that when you are raised by them or trained by them for years, you stupidly attract them to you, so... they're everywhere! I have to relearn real human nature. I can do that by watching normal humans interact with these types of people. Typically, normal humans don't give narcissists the time of day. They know how to ignore them. Walk away from them. Fake politeness only to run and never connect with them again!
Tell me about it...
She left me without a soul.
Tsholofelo Molete! I know the feeling. Twenty five years and counting. So dont feel too bad. Focus on the light ar the end of the tunnel🙏🏽
"They have empathy- they just choose not to use it. That is a slap across the face..." "They weaponize empathy..." Yes-yes-yes.... To me, they demonstrate (pseudo) empathy only to manipulate their victims.
Absolutely correct. Well stated!
They give you all kinds of empathy when "love bombing" you!
Yes, just that is not empathy, that is empty theatre.
The love bombing comes from pathological charming, no empathy involved, you would have to overlook they objectify you as a whole. "Any cluster B uses intermitted reinforcement" the basics of punishment and reward system (manipulation wise). Again zero empathy is needed to get in control of the whole situation.
Heather Pooler Yep💯
I left mine in the middle of the love bombing phase. Even though I saw what was going on it was very difficult to do. Truthfully, I still miss her sometimes despite knowing it was all BS. These are such dangerous people and so many social "tolerances" "prevent" us from addressing them properly. It seems that people never believe you about this kind of person because we aren't supposed to think such bad things of others.
They also have a lot of empathy for others they find attractive. They would shout at you for being so cruel to the delicate little girl they love when you just asked a simple question about her.
This is a real mind blower. It's bad enough, but actually triggers compassion from me, to think that the narcissist is just incapable of empathy. It is far more difficult to deal with the idea that they are quite capable of compassion and consciously CHOOSE to be cruel and insensitive. I know you're right. The way you explain it totally resonates with my experience. I am glad to have that information but I certainly don't feel good about it.
That explains why my son's dad would sometimes connect with me when I was up to my neck with his crap and would be remorseful "feel bad" and turn around a few weeks later literally give me the middle finger and continue the same thing that I was devastated over.
Bittersweet reality,
The constant cycle just repeats endlessly
Same. Mine turned fb on back on when he knew there were problems and he abused it by disrespecting me on it...he apologized but the next morning he continued to post pics living his best life when he had insisted last year we shut it off to “let ppl wonder about us”. He had wanted me to stop talking to my friends but I guess he missed his 681 friends he don’t know. 😒 claimed to not know how to deactivate but I told him he sure as hell knew how to turn it back on.
Sounds like someone I know
@@solmck737 deactivating their Facebook off and on is another red flag.
Grey Goose it’s the third time I had to jump his ass to stay off that shit. I hate Facebook so much. My ex husband cheated on me w it and once I caught him he blamed me for telling him to delete the woman from it and thought I wouldn’t know he still had her on Instagram lmao. He got so mad I caught him lie after lie. 😂💀. Idiot.
It reminds me of Harry Potter, the moment when he first came to Hogwarts and had to put on the sorting hat which asked him if he wanted to go to Slytherin and when Harry kept insisting Gryffindor, the hat said "you could be great in both" -: We all carry the same potential in ourselves, but it is up to us to choose whether we use it for the better or for the worse.
Literally no.
There are brain scans of narcissists showing that they have a lack of grey matter in the regions that are responsible for compassion.
They do have empathy in the sense that they understand your feelings. However, their brains are broken in the sense that they can't feel anything when others are hurt.
Omg this helps clear up SO much confusion for me! There are (few and far between) moments where I feel like "well maybe they're not a narcissist, they seem like they're empathizing with my situation and what I'm requesting". Looking back, I can definitely see where they cherry pick when they show empathy, and it's only when it's convenient for them.
I remember one time in particular when I told my mother that her words were hurting me, and she said, "Well I can't worry about everything I say to you and whether or not it'll hurt your feelings! That's too much work!" I remember being just dumbfounded that she doesn't do that, because I've done that automatically for as long as I can remember. Here I am her daughter, someone she claims to love, and it was "too much work" for her to consider whether or not her words were hurtful to me before speaking, yet I literally censor my words with everyone I meet, even if it's someone I don't like! And if I say something that hurt someone, despite not intending to hurt them, I apologize and own up to what I said, let them know that I didn't intend to hurt them, but that I still apologize for hurting them, because there's so much pain in the world and I can't bear putting more pain into the world if I can prevent it.
Instead of apologizing for hurting me, she told me it was too much work, lol. She's been a little better lately (thanks to boundaries my therapist has been helping me set) because I think she's realized she's going to completely lose her narcissistic supply if she continues to hurt me. I don't want to hurt her by completely cutting her off, but I also have to put my needs first for once in my life.
This video really helped clarify a lot for me! Thank you, Dr. Ramani!!!
Yes, I'm someone who prefers being vulnerable. This person weaponised my vulnerabilities against me. They also took my insecurity, internalised it, then yelled at me for having and sharing that insecurity.
Bingo! My ex knew what empathy was because he demanded it from me towards him all the time. Using empathy for manipulation makes it so much worse than just not having it at all. :(
If you could go inside the mind of a narc you will find it far, far worse than you can imagine.
YES!!!!
Wow! This helps so much! It is a very misunderstood aspect of narcissistic behavior and this clears up why it is so confusing and painful for me when my ex partner would turn off empathy right when I needed it most and dismiss and invalidate my feelings until I felt furious and desperate. Thank you so much for all your content and especially this! ❤️
"Sometimes they can't be bothered; it's almost like exerting that empathy muscle is effort for them" this a very chilling statement to hear I've noticed it in childhood from my older siblings.
Me too... Im so sad about this reality
This is one of the most relatable informative videos about narcissism. Particularly relatable to the way they can be so understanding and empathetic to suddenly completely indifferent or cold and cruel. It's just like how when they love bomb you and get you to trust them , and tell them everything, until the relationships starts going downhill and they use your weaknesses against you to really hurt and to trigger emotional crisis in people
And this also translates to bad lovemaking
WORD.
@Erika you just chased your own tail.
True - he used to just lie there, then it was always "can we stop" about ten seconds in. Would get more fun out of a blow-up doll. But he used to also use it as an opportunity to make me feel bad/unwanted during the devaluation stage - irony was that he was most probably impotent from all the porn he watched. Pathetic, sick and sad - yuk!
@@starlaeuropa yes it is so pathetic and sick. Sex can be a great way to bond with your partner and feel better about oneself as well.
My husband is getting very predictable. He was going through a spirt where he was calling me "ugly", a "6/10", and "not *that* pretty". He's dated prettier he said. Mind u we've been married for 15 yrs.
So I told him..'what u said is laughable'. You dont need to be a "10" to have great sex. God made all kinds of people. Some are sexier to some people. Some are better looking etc but that's ridiculous to boil down a connection to physicality alone.
Then next time we 'had sex' he said 'that wasnt that intense S before' 'did I even xxx?' Lol he has never said that ever all these yrs.
I told him it wasnt that good for me either. It's like the more I work on myself, the less attracted he is on one level...
Or feels the need to take me down a notch or two. As if he hasn't done enough damage.
Saddens me to the depth of my soul I've given myself to someone who acts like this for so long
I would have to disagree, but I have heard about it both ways. My narc was incredible, probably the only time he wasn’t a selfish, stingy arse, and I have a friend whose narc husband was also great and then she dated another narc for a while and he was terrible then blamed her for it as usual.
This is an EXCELLENT video and highlights a very important point that no one addresses. Demonstrating empathy when it serves them. When my boyfriend of 6 years showed it he showed me with it, but it’s clear it’s only to pull me back in. For your own mental health and peace surround yourself with this you trust and get out. These relationships slowly erode your joy.
Spot on. Clears up how I've seen a few rare moments of empathy. This was extremely helpful. Having a hard day, 2 1/2 weeks after I left him.
Survival mode is the narcissistic person's daily experience, even though they may not appear to be in a survival situation. It is likely for this reason that they seem unable to display empathy in situations where they perceive themselves as being threatened or believe they have something to lose. Many narcissistic people obviously have empathy in some situations, and narcissism is a spectrum, so the percentage of those considered "narcissists" who may also display genuine empathy at times varies.
The key in most situations seems to be whether they feel that empathy will be detrimental to their survival or not. In a survival situation, empathy may not be able to be a part of the equation because caring too much about the plight of others could result in detrimental consequences for yourself. In a survival situation, trusting others, believing them or caring about them could result in yourself getting hurt. If there is one thing the narcissist person tries to avoid, it is hurt. They are concerned only with now and are unable to see or care that the behavior they are engaging in now could cause them hurt later. It doesn't matter. What matters now is feeling better now. Tomorrow will be worried about tomorrow.
When you are in survival mode, you take it one day at a time. Today they are angry or sad or scared or anxious or lonely or whatever they are and they must do something about that immediately, as these feelings are dangerous to the narcissist. They are threatening. They are intolerable. The overwhelming majority of their behavior is designed to manage their internal emotional landscape in some way, but people around them may never realize the enormous amount of emotional difficulty pathologically narcissistic people are having, because so many of them are so good at hiding it. They are so good at hiding it and so disconnected from their emotions, in fact, that many narcissists don't realize it, either. They simply act - or rather, react - to their emotional state, many times without ever even acknowledging it.
To put it simply, fear often cancels out empathy. Self-preservation often cancels out empathy. Survival often cancels out empathy. This facet of the human condition is explored for example on post-apocalyptic television shows such as The Walking Dead. The characters are in a survival situation, therefore they are in survival mode and often must make choices between empathy and self-preservation. Between their desire to help, trust or care versus their drive to survive and their fear of people who might harm them. They want to trust but they can't because doing so is dangerous. After too long of being in this situation and its accompanying mindset, most people - even adult people who previously did not possess any significantly toxic narcissistic personality traits - will eventually lose the desire and even ability to trust or empathize, instead perceiving everything and everyone as either resources to be exploited or threats to be neutralized because survival has reduced everything to this one basic equation. Sound familiar?
This is probably why many narcissistic people do seem able to display empathy when confronted with situations they are not personally involved in, or in situations where they are not threatened in any way. They will not lose anything by identifying with the other person or people, so to do so is "safe." For example, a narcissistic person may be able to feel empathy for people involved in a bus accident that they saw on the news. Or a narcissistic doctor may feel empathy for their patients because the patients are no threat to their authority and are therefore "safe." We see this with narcissistic parents as well, when the children are too young to challenge their authority or reject them by becoming individuals.
Some of this is undoubtedly image maintenance, but some of it does appear genuine. It's easy for them to have positive regard for people and things who do not - or cannot - challenge, judge or abandon them. This is underscored by the fact that if they are challenged somehow or do become involved personally, their perception of the person or situation often changes dramatically; empathy is no longer safe to offer, so it isn't. It is cancelled out by the fear, rage, shame, defensiveness and other emotions triggered by their perception of this previously "safe" person or situation viciously and unfairly turning against them. If you examine your interactions with narcissistic people - and really, their interactions with everyone - you will notice this same pattern of behavior repeating itself over and over again. And of course, some really do have no empathy at all, and what we generally find is the farther down the narcissistic spectrum someone is, the less empathy they will have.
The pathologically narcissistic person's relationship with the world around them is complicated and confusing, both for them and for others who are in their lives. Everything is colored by their skewed, immature and emotionally-charged perception, and because of that, their relationships are unstable and volatile - including their relationship with themselves. As with any other person on the planet, their relationships with others are reflections of their relationship with themselves. They don't just engage in splitting with others; they also split themselves, and for the same reason. The same good/bad image they hold of others, they have of themselves - hence the false self. The same effort they expend to hide malicious, abusive behavior or betrayal is often put toward hiding silly things no one would care about, such as making a small mistake and it's done for the same reason - hence the inability to take accountability for anything, no matter how insignificant. The way they treat others is indicative of their unacknowledged feelings for themselves, which is why they are often so desperate to prove this is not true.
Their perception is extremely skewed. Their perception is colored by emotions they cannot regulate or understand (or even acknowledge), dysfunctional coping mechanisms that have become pathological thought processes and knee-jerk reactions, as well as deep-seated beliefs that are often extremely illogical. Perhaps most importantly, many of them do not know that these things are true.
This is why seeking help for this problem is fraught with serious issues, if it even happens. Aside from the fact that they trust no one this much - including themselves, for a narcissist to get help with these things requires them at minimum to be able to use insight which they don't have to engage in successful reality testing, which they can't do. It requires them to use their fundamentally flawed perception and corrupt thinking processes to examine their fundamentally flawed perception and corrupt thinking processes so they can identify - and correct - the flaws in this perception and these thinking processes. For all intents and purposes, this is just not possible. It's using a computer program contaminated by viruses to find the other viruses in the computer. It doesn't work because the program itself is contaminated.
This perception evolved during childhood in an effort to keep the narcissist safe and has now become a pathological process that keeps them stuck in the idea that they are not safe - ever. All facets of the pathologically narcissistic person come back to this one thing when examined. Any efforts to convince them this is not true are experienced as manipulation, because why would you want to tell me I'm safe here with you when clearly I am not? But they are not safe anywhere and it's because they cannot even trust themselves, their feelings or their own perception, much less their ability to fulfill their own needs and care for themselves. Sadly, their dysfunction has evolved in such as way as to "protect" them from exactly what they need to understand in order to make things better. It's a tragic situation in many ways, but you can't fix it. There is nothing to fix; this is what they are. The "bad" side of the narcissist is part of that, just like the "good" side is. These things cannot be separated.
Just keep in mind the cruel things said and done I think they try to get us to feel pity for them but they really have no feelings for us. So sad but it is their choice.
Carry on , be happy and let them FIND THEIR OWN HAPPY PLACE. That’s their job not ours.
@@janx8695super great comment
Hope your days are going well.
I was a pathological liar at 13, a precursor to a personality disorder like narcissism. I remember what it felt like to be in my head. I started as an empath. I felt everything deeply, but one day, I got the message that I was all wrong and the pain felt too painful because it wouldn't stop. It kept repeating, "You're all wrong". I was ashamed of myself and the voice inside my head turned on me in the most hateful way. You know the voice that I'm talking about. It isn't a hallucination. It's the voice that polices us and replays every bad thing that anybody ever said to us. The self-hate voice became stronger than my real self and then became the mask that my insecure, real self hid behind. I became disconnected, as if my real self had become so small that it almost didn't exist. I stopped self-reflecting.
After telling myself the lies I said about myself, it wasn't hard to also tell myself lies about others. I would act impulsively and tell lies that I didn't need to tell. It started as a self-protection, but then it became a habit, as if I was fabricating the world that I wanted. At first, I didn't hurt others on purpose. They were just collateral damage as I would self-protect. I'd justify my actions by telling myself lies about the other person. I got really good at imagining the worst possible intentions. Of course their intentions were bad because, if I am not worthy of love, why would anybody have good intentions toward me anyway? I would then flip the script in my head and become indignant that they had treated me the way that my lies told me they had. Just because I hated myself, it didn't mean that others could treat me badly. How dare they! It is as if the lies I had to tell myself became the foundation for an amplified sense of entitlement. If the world was as bad as I imagined it to be, then I was a victim of it rather than a predator.
Then I went numb. I felt like I had lost myself and I felt dead inside. Hurting others was a way to feel powerful as an alternative way to feel something. When I was scheming, it was a time that my mental abuser was occupied in an activity other than tormenting me. When I would scheme, I didn't feel worthless when I could feel intellectually superior over another. I was no longer in touch with the person locked up inside of my head. If I dared to exist, the abuser that was my mask and jailer and voice inside my head would say things to me that even my narcissist wouldn't say to another person yet.
I had a sense of who I had been before that I felt the loss of myself. If I didn't have a sense of myself, I'd have felt no loss and no intervention could have saved me because my real self had to have a reason to want to fight to exist. 27 years later, leaving the narcissist I had been in a 20 year relationship with felt very similar to breaking free from the narcissist in my head. Both times, I wanted to break free because I was existing without living. Both times I was forced to live in a mental prison of self-hate.
But, at 13, my intervention came in the form of a computer because I would sit and write. As I wrote, I would self-reflect. I never wrote without tears streaming down my face. I was feeling. Self-reflecting made me find myself again. Also, the external love of my dad was a factor who somehow finally had time for me. He never had time for me before, but it was in asking him for computer help that I realized that he never turned me away and that he actually seemed to want me around. He just didn't know how to connect. That's fine. I had a liar in me who knew how to fabricate reasons to connect with him. He always treated me as if I was good enough and that allowed me the courage to gain the courage to face myself again. He also gave me a different narrative about people that made me start to exercise that muscle in perspective-taking.
When I think about the amount of courage that it took to face myself again, I don't honesty know how it was possible. If I was too ashamed of myself to exist authentically before, how would I possibly face myself after the things that I'd done and how would I learn to stop the impulses to lie when I had been living a lie before? Well, maybe because I grew up as a thrill-seeker. Maybe because my ADHD couldn't handle the mental space that it took to be a narcissist, but honestly, I think the most likely thing is that I was more afraid of existing in life without ever really living again. Fear of living my whole life while being dead inside was more terrifying than facing myself and all of my guilt. If my sense of self had already been murdered by years of abuse, I don't think that I'd have had enough of a sense of myself to care. However, I remembered feeling joy and I remembered the journeys that my imagination would take before the voice took over.
So, I guess all of that is to say that, yes, I'd have twinges of guilt that I would quickly bury by telling myself stories about another person and then letting my real self just keep fading or going to sleep. One lie of self-justification that I tell myself about another person that serves to allow me to make them a monster is nothing when everything I am and everything I am living is a lie.
Please don't take my story as some kind of hope that narcissist change. Remember, I was only 13 and my brain was still developing. Instead, see that your narcissist is not self-reflecting. They don't make any lasting change. You have to back them into a corner and make their lives significantly uncomfortable to get a small and temporary change. That doesn't happen with people who self-reflect. You know this because you self-reflect. You think about your disagreements with other people when you calm down and then realize that there are some things you could have done differently. Your narcissist doesn't want to come out because their abuser and mask is a comfort to them in the sense that it hides their shame. All you've ever seen is their mask. Don't lie to yourself to think that you even know them. They won't make themselves that vulnerable.
Thank you for addressing this. In my humble opinion, narcissists, and sociopaths have the capacity to be empathetic when they choose. The narcissist is most likely to be empathetic when they are grooming their new supply. That empathy totally disappears when they are finished with that source of supply.
Good point.
This is so helpful and explains my confusion with why my sibling can appear that they care, and then say and do the most hurtful, selfish things. Your explanations have helped me to sort this out. Thank you Doctor Ramani.
This video really resonated with my story.
One month my sister and I are on the phone to each other crying and talking about our fathers narc and abusive behavior. The next she uses almost word for word the same thing he said when he discarded me. So yeh, seems like it's there, but boy do they have little qualm of weaponizing vulnerable moments. Anyway stay alert all! and thank you Dr Ramani. Your videos got me through some really confusing dark times.
My Malignant older sister did just that to me as well, Really such a Bit~h. I have not talked to her since. Been years now. Went no contact with the rest of the family soon after. Not missing them.
I agree, Narc DO NOT CHOOSE to have empathy. Recently, my AH Narc told me how he felt sorry for a person we know who had back surgery. "Poor woman, she is in so much pain, she can't work anymore." I was boiled! I have had back surgery also. I have titanium screws & plates up & down my spine---he NEVER gives me compassion. In fact, he makes fun of my disability. He weaponizes his empathy with me, & offers compassion to others in front of them. I have been discarded while still in this person's life.
“Let’s say you started crying in the grocery store” it me!!!
Gift giving is an excellent way to discern a narcissist. My mother used to give me her LEFTOVERS and act like I was getting a Rolls Royce! One Christmas she packed up all of her old socks with her dog's hair on it & gave them to me as a present. She said to me, "It seems to me you were a good girl this year!"
She knew damn well her so-called gift was a dig and she wanted my reaction. I didn't give her the opportunity. I said, "Oh thank you! I appreciate your thoughtfulness!"
What a demonic witch. 👹
"It's really unsettling to sometimes get it and sometimes not" . Thank you!
Its a million times worse that they have empathy but just don't care! It is chilling . You are right.
Yes they have empathy , you are brilliant ! I’ve felt logically understood by the narcissist i know . He is very covert and I wasn’t aware why I have felt so depressed and confused since I’ve known him I blamed myself for a long time . If I try to bring up how he’s hurt me he gets angry , and seems to care massively about proving his point as in making me see his point, and wanting me to think positive of him again . If I stand my ground , then hours , days and sometimes a week later he does show empathy. It’s like in the moment any tiny negative thing you feel against them is so damaging to their ego the insecurity within them must be protected . It has to be protected first before they can truly lower their defense .
So empathy is a quality which we use to care about others.
But empathy to the Narc is a quality to care about themselves (and to destroy others).
Great point Doc!!
I’ve wondered that too. My husband will totally put me down one minute, but then will be polite to a stranger the next. I’ve given up even saying “bless you” when he sneezes since he doesn’t say “thank you”. Yet if he sneezes in public and someone says it to him he will thank them.
Dawn W I think this is on one way narcs devalue you. Like they’re subtly saying to you “you don’t deserve my goodness”
Abena C yeah manners are huge with me too
Leslie That’s really how it is, they are nice to literally everyone, even giving to charity to look like they are doing good. Yet turn around and put me down the next breath.
Leslie or even, “why would I do that to you, I’m just a great guy”
They like to make a good impression in public. I used to think that my ex-husband was so especially un-nice to me because he thought it was weak to be nice. Good neighbour Sam to all and sundry away from our home though.
you are so right. I could listen to you for hours. "Once I accept it, I broke free". It indeed was a motivator.
If you survive and you get old enough, you get to be the one who steps over THEIR bodies!
Wanda, 😂
@@lorettanericcio-bohlman567 geezerhood CAN be fun!
I really have no interest in stepping over anybody's body. I just wanted a normal relationship.
Except they wount be there to see it.
@@genericnamethingy ah hon, we all wanted that. Gotta make the best of what we got.
😷
Hey, I left my ex boyfriend who was narcisstic the day after valentinesday. Because something has happened and that was the it! I couldn’t do this anymore and realised that all he did was not going to change and especially was not forgivable. I have found you and you have enlightened me so much! Because of you I am going through this with a clear mind and healing the right way all because of you.
Thank you for you everything you say...
it means the world in this difficult time.
That part about experiencing what we believe is true empathy... Then all of a sudden it's turned off.... Those are the moments that I see in my nightmares. Like for real. There is nothing more horrifying than experiencing that as a child from the one who's supposed to protect you.
I know what you are going through! I can only recommend doing therapy if you aren't already. I never wanted to do one until I had a major breakdown and now I wonder how and why I have dealt with all my shit alone for most of my life!
I agree,
We could all benefit from good therapy 👍
@@antje8303 definitely. I agree. I need to go after a good therapist and work through it all.
this was my mother till the day she died.
Congratulations Anna Belle, very happy for you taking steps for yourself 💜💜💜💜
Thank you Dr. Ramani. That was the missing puzzle piece. What you explain in this video is the most valuable information because it clarifies the confusion which comes from them being really able to connect IF IT IS CONVENIENT FOR THEM. Everywhere you hear that they lack empathy but I haven’t come across the information that even neurologically it shows that they have the full capacity for empathy but choose not to use it as soon as they cannot be bothered and yet this is the typical devastating experience people have with them.
"weaponized empathy" . . . YES! I've never heard it put that way, but it's so true! And that was a really good point about "stranger empathy." It is so unsettling and confusing.
I was in awe this morning!
He says to me , regarding our teen daughter, " I have been thinking back on the times I yelled at Violet and the awful things I have said to her . I feel a lot of remorse for that "
Wow
Thank you Dr. Ramani for the insightful teachings and knowledge. My limited personal experiences with narcissists convinced me that they DO NOT have any empathy what so ever. Their reactions towards emotions - such as angry, sadness, depression or joy - are usually blank and awkward. If you're not aware, you might think that these narcissists are just rather calm and cool compared to others. In my opinion, narcissists are merely generally observant of the situation at hand and extremely opportunistic, willing to seize any opportunity of studying and manipulating their target person by catering to his/her emotional state at that particular moment.
This I feel is spot on! My dear wife was raised by two narcissistic parents and she didn't fall far from that tree.
Pretentious and superficial relationships is all they were capable of giving.
This is quite chilling because it so perfectly describes my ex’s father’s behaviour. My ex’s mother was always confused about how her ex husband would be so nice to flower sellers on the street and how he’d go out of his way to help virtual strangers but how he apparently didn’t care about the effects his ‘gruffness’ had on her and her daughter.
James Junghanns they treat those they know the most like garbage.
Weaponized Empathy! Exactly! I had to listen to this session twice! This is RIGHT ON target, Dr. Ramani! Thank you again! 💕
This is SOOOOOOOO good. Definitely the most accurate and insightful explanation I’ve heard yet. SO SO SO TRUE! They use empathy as just another tool in their toolbox to serve themselves and their selfish desires. Great clip Dr. Ramani 🙌🏻
This channel is a blessing.
I like to say that they lack real "sincere" empathy, but sure they know that doing something nice, or pretending to care can convince more victims. As soon as they have a trapped victim the abuse starts. AKA. of course, the honey moon phase. So they essentially use our understanding of empathy as a weapon. They choose to use it that way. I think they do lack "real" empathy, because to them empathy is a bargaining chip to use later on (sooner rather than later) to get a victim under control. or to do anything for them that is often disproportionate. Empathy is not saying "OOOOOH, i feel bad that your dog died, but how BAAAD do you feel about me feeling bad for you??? because...i feel bad for you, but what about you telling me how bad you feel for me" LOL. "I feel bad for you, so ...do you want to go buy me some groceries?" Again, they weaponize their "fake" empathy.
ILLAngel101 very true. The term for what you’re describing is cognitive empathy. It’s when narcs use it to get their way, to make it “look like they care,” but it’s all just fake. Later on, the situation that they were supposedly empathetic about is the one that they devalue you for. I think they mimic the emotions that they see in the movies and what at least what they perceive to be empathy, just to show they’re human, but they don’t feel it like normal people do. That’s how medical professionals (doctors, nurses), lawyers, and careers that are aimed at helping people have some of the most dangerous narcissists who get away with a lot because they use cognitive empathy to groom their patients or clients and eventually abuse them, and nobody thinks they could do any wrong because of the mask that they put on in different settings. Good examples: a police offficer that commits the perfect murder, or a priest that molests the altar boys. They’re recognized as being humble and sweet, and their careers revolve around acts of service, so they couldn’t do any wrong. Scary and disturbing.
Ha ha well said, covert is 81 and loaded. Her neighbour who cooked for her when she had the flu even gave her cat food money! I've been a stay at home mom for 24 yrs, I keep the system away from my kids as much as possible. When she was 70 she suggested that I start supporting her, fat chance, my husband is so cheap he squeaks when he walks!
They know how to Mimic feelings, not that they don't have them, and when they do it quite simply because they are ashamed they
got caught either in lye or some other dishonest cheating action
.
Brenda, wish they got caught in lye! 😂 would be an answer to our prayers.
@@joseenoel8093 I dont blame you, same with family here too. Left them years ago. So much time has passed it would be utterly awkward to try to pick up up their pieces they decided to shatter snd work on something they have no clue on what family is about. What system are you saying about, schools?
They enjoy "not" extending empathy because they are very much pleasured by observing someone's suffering.
Alleviating someone's suffering would be contraindicated to these cruel predators.
The only effort they put out is to help that person suffer more.
I've witnessed this firsthand. The more he twisted his knife the more he would grin with delight and a few times he was completely unable to hold back from laughing right out loud. 👹 It was shockingly demonic!
Good Deeds were only done for an audience and the drama involved with those Skits where worthy of an Academy Award.
This was so accurate, the key to what has not been making sense.
Incredible points Dr.Ramani this made me realize that narcs do use empathy to get what they need from you in the moment and then later when you are vulnerable and craving for them to be kind to you they make jokes out of your struggle and mock you when you least expect it. Intermittent reinforcement!!! This is why we feel so confused by them! Powerful knowledge here!
Oh wow, this video explains so much about what I experienced. When we first met, he listened to me for hours on end and I thought that I found someone to confide in. Gradually he started reducing the amount of time we would spend talking and made it purely physical. I was running to him like a junkie because I was craving that time when he would listen and be there with me. But it never happened again. Every time he pushed my boundaries further and further until it became plain abuse. He knew exactly what to say to me afterwards to make me feel better and I stayed addicted to him and kept enduring the abuse. He told me I'm crazy and unstable and that he knows better what my body likes and needs. It ended after one year when I learned that he was sleeping with my friend. It is only now that I fully understand what happened - it's called "weaponizing empathy". I never realized he's a narcissist because he seemed so empathetic. Thank you Dr. Ramani
Thanks for clarifying this... This aspect of Jekyll/Hyde with regards to the shift from empathy to cruelty is what has been most confusing for me.
Ooh thanks so much for explaining this! This aspect has always confused me.
My mother is a shoe-in for every other narcissist trait, but I'm sure I've seen empathy from her occasionally. That has been the biggest reason I've been lowkey scared of misjudging her.
But empthay from time to time, withholding when it's not convenient, and weaponizing is exactly what I've seen. Best way I can describe it is that their compassion for themselves comes first, second, and third. Fourth and fifth too lol.
After that, she can have empathy when it ultimately benefits her. Or when it's a situation where she is not threatened in any way (aka pure pity at the right time). For example, genuinely crying for victims of a mass shooting.
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.
Great the way you told this story. Perfectly demonstrates “selective empathy. These reviews help so many in a state of confusion. By people sharing their stories it give others the clarity and certainty to get away, to love themselves enough to want to protect themselves.
This video makes me cry. The description of this is so right on.
I've been listening to you for many months now, your insighr into this topic is stunning, at least when I reflect in my personal experience. Please do not stop, you have a unique and outstanding (this is an understatement) insight into this extraordinary behaviour. Thank you so much for your commitment and dedication. I continue to learn from you 🙏
He caused estrangement with my family and used my grief as a weapon to blame and shame me. When I had an emotional breakdown, he merely grinned and took pleasure in saying "you need help", "you are crazy". My daughter and I have actually seen him be caring, thoughtful and generous to strangers. When my daughter said to asked him why he treats strangers better than us, he told her to "shut up"! This video was bang on!
Rose, shut up to his daughter for asking a question? Run
This is my partner and his exact way of using empathy towards me and our daughter.
Run away, don't waste any more time or your youth. I wish I had left earlier. .Good luck to you and your daughter
Wow Dr. Ramani, thank you so much for the clarification. I actually used those words with my former narcissist fiance, after he flew out of my life for 18 months, then breezed back in. Upon explaining his surprise & unexpected return, he claimed, "I didn't want to bother you." I responded with, "No, you just didn't want to be bothered." He's been out of my life for 3 1/2 years.
I think you are right here, although I'm not sure choosing is necessarily the best word. I think it's a mistaken perception that narcissists are in control, but one observation I've noticed is that Narcissistic traits seem to increase or stabilise depending on the amount of 'pain' the narcissist is experiencing, or lack of control they feel. I think the reality is their own needs will always supersede anyone else's.
Well said buddy!
they show empathy towards themselves... as far as others, they just don't care -- absolutely agree
Thank you @DoctorRamani I emailed you related to the very same topic and this helped me clear up the confusion around a person I was involved with at one moment having empathy and at another lacking it entirely. It was actually one of the reasons I never saw how he was using and manipulating me, and hurting me. Because he seemed to care. Unfortunately for me, I had to hit rock bottom before I understood, and bump into one of your videos which now feels like heaven sent.
Your work is so important. Thank you so much for your devotion. You're an angel ❤
Awesome explanation. I wish everyone that has dealt with this issue could go back in time... Things would be much different now that I KNOW. That you Doctor!!!
This speaks to the severity of this disorder and just how impossible it is to cure such a damaged person. I think it also highlights the degree to which the narcissist is "evil" (for lack of better word).
I am 46 years old and I’m still waiting to meet a friend, colleague, or lover who considers me and my feelings.
I'm 75 and just learning how few of those people exist, especially in my family. I hope you meet someone who truly cares.
@@rcomyns4664Thank you. I have met a very beautiful and compassionate man. We’ll be married in the new year. All the very best to you as you navigate the tricky fallout. Warmest wishes.
That's wonderful news, Lucy! Good for you. Congratulations to you and that lucky man!!
@@rcomyns4664 thank you 🥂
Whenever someone asks you questions that completely expose your vulnerability but offer nothing in return, that's a red flag you're dealing with someone who is gathering a profile on you to use it as a weapon if ever needed
Thank you for making these videos on personality disorders. I can tell you have a deep passion for what you do, and you are amazing at explaining challenging concepts. I have been trying to figure out what my problem is for years. After watching several of your videos over the past week I feel a lot closer to understanding.
Dr. Ramani you have helped me so much. I’ve left a really toxic work place and have found a wonderful new job and am so soothed by yours and others TH-cam videos
Oh my Gosh, Dr. Ramani.
Just this morning I had a flashback of a moment when a narcissist in my life behaved really thoughtfully and sweetly to me. There were lots of moments like that. This specific memory I had felt bittersweet and made me a bit confused. Then, I thought about how malignant narcissists use confusion as a tactic (they also thrive on chaos, or so it seems to me). But this video has just clarified things for me even more. The timing has been perfect. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I’ve been suffering with PTSD for years now, because of horrible narcissistic abuse. I don’t know that I will ever completely heal, but this knowledge is extremely important.
I too suffer PTSD..
Apologies have been few and far between with my narc.
It was always my problem not his...Finally after over3 decades i learned about narc behavior...glad to have this knowledge and am trying to heal from my traumatic journey...Thank you for posting your informative videos...
Kimberley Luna-Stupec I wish you all the best.
When they go out of their way to hurt you on purpose, with financial abuse, like not paying support, ghosting you and their youngest teen they abandoned, spreading lies, and being downright mean, they’re reacting to the pain of no longer receiving the attention and love they feel they deserve and are weaponizing their empathy.
Absolutely love this!!!
These thoughts have been in my mind for years. Can I give you an example of what I’ve noticed...Certain narcs I’ve had in my life were the absolute greatest crusaders for me when someone else did me wrong...but if they had done the exact same thing to me, there “deep shame about themselves” put them in fight mode instead. It’s been amazing how above and beyond these people went for me (as long as they weren’t the one who did it).
Yes, and as an innocent bystander, one should never try to give an example or even help with any part of the Narc ideas. It never turns out well!
Exactly great example and that for me was the hook because my Parents Never protected me and they knew it😕
They are unable to internalize but externalize. The finger is always pointed away from thenselves. It's always somebody else's fault.
Empathy switched off, Chilling is an understatement, its frightening and deeply disturbing and next thing is they start to bury you alive. But chilling is the first feeling!
My narc ex would never stand up for me if I was being harrassed/threatened by other men, but he would be the first to play the white knight if it was a stranger or female friend. It was so incredibly hurtful and invalidating to witness, knowing that if it was me, he would literally pretend it wasn't happening .
Same.
🤯🤯🤯🤯 this explains everything now! Wow! He did everything you described in this video. I would think all the time “How can this man be sooo understanding & my shoulder to cry on sometimes but then use every single thing I said to him in those moments or any moment for that matter & use it all against me! Even threatening to tell those people what I said about whatever the situation was, once even threatened to tell my son how I was feeling negatively about him at one point. Not fair, not cool. Wow, just everything you said here hit home for me for sure. Thankfully he is now my ex.
I have a spouse with ADHD. He used to struggle quite a bit with sustaining empathic attunement, but it was more an attentional issue (limited cognitive resources if something else was in his focus or more stimulating than our interaction for whatever reason). It can indeed feel chilling to have someone Completely oriented to you and then suddenly completely off in another world.
So he doesn't struggle as much anymore? If so that's wonderful, what helped him improve?
This is golden! What juicy critical thinking! We need more of this! I once brought this question up and got viciously shut down by fellow victims. We have to open ourselves up to the possibilities of understanding NPD beyond our own understanding, otherwise how else can we get closer to their true nature? You’re an absolutely outstanding human Dr Ramani!
Oh my god this was hard.... but so needed. THANK YOU!! The narcissist in my family is my mom; she used to tell me " I love you so much you will never be able to comprehend how much I love you, you'll never understand" but somehow it's a sentence that always felt empty. She was always so lovely and empathic in front of other people and then the mask would come off when we were alone and she'd start berating me and my father. Your books and your content are helping me SO MUCH! Thank you. I am struggling to find a therapist specialising in narcissism. Could you refer me to anyone in Germany?
Weaponized empathy. You really clarified so much. The fact that my ex chose to withhold empathy chills me to the bone. Thank you
That's what I thought. I noticed people enjoy acting superior to boost their egos. It's all about them.
The universe will exist for billions of years after they are gone, so superior, lol.
Marie Williams yup that why I stop fucking with people a long time ago like god said in the last day I will never forget that scripture
I agree. They are not void of empathy. They just see empathy as a weakness and a vulnerability. They like being dark and cruel. They like using people. They love being controlling and manipulative. If they allowed themselves to be empathetic, they would not be able to exercise all of those things I mentioned above.
I completely agree, they have empathy and see when they really hurt you and clearly take pleasure in it. Some are much more sadistic than others and I have seen the really sadistic ones will appear to show a bit of empathy if they can show it toward someone who worships them in order to hurt one they hate and are jealous of. I have also seen it is mostly words in the moment seldom any kind of real actions.
FASCINATING! I have OFTEN struggled with this question. I feel like most descriptions of narcissists say that they simply lack empathy. But my experience has been so confusing precisely because they do seem to have empathy, but just don't use it with regularity. Being on the receiving end of their behavior in the absence of empathy is so disturbing and disorienting. It leaves me wondering how intentional it is, if they are aware of the hurt they are causing and if they feel justified. I have gone blue in the face trying to explain to them (narc mom, sister, ex partners) how what they did was not ok, was abusive, etc to no avail. It is hard to accept that they just don't care.
The ex-narc exuded "fake empathy" with me during our first few years. At first, I thought that was just his way of showing that he "cared" (despite it feeling very odd). However, with time, it just seemed that he was faking it. I never experienced a moment with him where it felt real or natural.
He was so cold. he first discarded his parents, then his sons (one with downs syndrome), and then me (of course). He really doesn't care about anyone but himself.
I remember, shortly after the discard, when I saw his true self. He was so ugly. The fake empathy wasn't much better, but the true lack of empathy was sickening. How could I have been with this man for 4 years? I have been single since this relationship ended because I am still confused about how I had been fooled. I do not want to be fooled again.
Patricia, right there with you. I’d rather be single and stable the rest of my days. 🐬🐬🐬🐬
I described it as merciless. My mom was merciless. She knew she would hurt me, but choose herself over me.
Thankyou ! Amazing information on this facet of narcissism. Love the way you explained the details, as well as how to see this, and what exactly to do with it.❤️
Dr. Ramani : I do not have words to express how grateful I am to hear this information. I have struggled with understanding this for decades. I understand now and I am learning to not be surprised by anything he does or says. I am hoping this knowledge will change the dynamics of me being triggered by his behavior to me saying to myself “I understand why you are doing this. “ It is what it is. I hope this will give me some peace in this arrangement. ( it is not a relationship). Thank You.
My experience with a lot of narcs tells me that narc has cognitive empathy, they know what people feel, but they have no compassion, no feelings, really empty, zero, nada. This would explain why we don't see "cured" narc. When narcs show "empathy", in the loving bombing phase (LBF), or sometimes in the devaluation phase (DF), it is because they did something much more terrible with someone else (appearing to be good at LB with the new supply) or with the target (at DF). If a narc did something good, something opposite happened symmetrically, but much worse.
If narcs just decided to finally do one positive thing and end themselves, the world would benefit from their only selfless act.
This makes alot of sense. It's like when they're in new relationship you get treated like trash but once that relationship ends your love bombed again. The narcissist is too exhausted trying to care for one person that he can't even bother with the other. Tired of narcissist and tired of hating them also
@@memes.1114 What looks like a narc's "empathy" in the loving bombing of new supplies, showing how well they treat, in fact, this action is a (1) punishment for the discarded one, (2) a trap to hook up the new supply and (3) protect the false self from accusations. Even kindness can be a weapon, and that's what narcos do. If I see them treating someone very well, for me it means that they did something evil behind, and no one will believe that such a "person" tried to destroy the discarded one.
@@memes.1114 Instead of waste your energy hating them, it is better to look for virtues (wisdom, humbleness, patience...). Improve your self, be so good that when they see your success and try to reach you, you will say "sorry, go in peace" because you are busy with your new life. Let as virtues use you, abundantly.
To those that wanted to know what zen looks like, check out AR above
Dr. Ramani, you are such a beautiful genius, after me watching over two thousand videos, you finally said what I was thinking deep within my soul when you said they are refusing to use their empathy sometimes... this is why I always call narcissist in general mean and evil people because they are refusing to use the empathy..... Thank you so much, I love you for this.... narcissist are not sociopaths, so what you are saying is absolutely correct.... narcissist know what they are doing when they hurt people..... some of them will even refuse to apologize, when I was with my ex narcissist, I used to have to tell him to apologize to me, but he inherently knew that he owed me an apology for all the hurt and pain that he caused me, I could even cry and he would hesitate to apologize... my ex narcissist became more cold over time.... Great job...
In my experience, the covert ones do have some empathy and they use it to seem vulnerable and to create rapport, but the true NPD just doesn't get it even if someone explains it to him/her (my ...so called mother...), they just see what others do and fake it to some extent, manipulating it knowing there will be a reward for them for faking it.
Georgi Fran They lack empathy and even when a psychologist tells me that they have i wont believe it.
@John May Thank you for your words, my dad was absent, first emotionally then just left, cause he was just as abused as I was... then he died... not a bad personality but ineffective as a parent. I had grandparents until 9 y.o., they died too... then my only favourite uncle, then my only favourite aunt...yep. all dead a loooong time ago. Guess who's still alive and well? Yep, the NPD borderline so called mother...
I thank you so much for your videos Dr Ramani. This is so true. I shared also nearly everthing with a narcisststic partner. It took me a long, hurtful way to understand how a narcissist copes with their lack of empathetic emotions. They have a better cognitive analytical ability to understand them. Their capability to analyze a script of an emotional story shared by their partners is frequently superior to that of an empath. They can analyze a story told by their partner objectively and identify weaknesses to compensate for their own lack of genuine emotions.