Great insight! I own 3 thrones, traditional, bike seat, and square (old Yamaha DS-1000). I’ve used the round thrones for years and played with finding the proper height. I often found myself slouching a lot of the time, resulting in back pain as well as numbness in my less from having the front pinching my legs. Playing for musical theatre requires a lot of sitting, especially when the audience can see you. I bought a Roc-N-Soc bicycle seat throne with a back rest and have it adjusted well. No issues. The back rest is set just enough to make light contact with my back, which has kept me conscious of posture. I play for a few churches on their own kits, most with round thrones and I just don’t like them. I’ve tried the split thrones, but found them too expensive to buy and try for any length of time.
Thank you, Brandon. You just saved me a bunch of money. I own a Dixon throne that is round and flat. It is 3.25" thick. I was thinking about getting a motorcycle style throne. My back doesn't get sore as much as it stiffens up, BUT I am 72 years old, and I don't really think any throne can eliminate that. I'll stick with my current throne. Thank you again for your informative talk.
Glad to hear! The simpler form lets your body organize itself well. I've got a follow up video ill be doing soon about my new DW9000 throne, round, and why i chose it!
I'll never give up my motorcycle style seat throne & go back to a trad. drum stool. It immediately improved my ergonomics/bio-mechanics, moving around the kit and control/range of motion of both feet. I just wished I had figured it out 30 yrs. ago...
Hey Brandon! Finally - someone did a neutral and scientifically based view on this!!! We need more of this :-) As a physical scientist and a athletic and performance coach and a drummer I completely agree with your view... It is important to give people an "out of the commercial box" view and enable drummers to understand what their body is telling them instead of listening to all the influencers´ miracles. In this context I hate affiliate links, by the way - no offense! Keep on bringing such important connections and conclusions on point! I really appreciate your work... Thanx a lot.
Thanks Nina! Completely understand. No affiliate links here! Will continue to not sell anything Slide to me! I got five more videos cute up to come out in the next five weeks! Very excited
One of my current favourite channels on TH-cam! I was a professional drummer in my early 20s, then didn't play for years, and now that I've returned to playing I find that my mind is aiming for things on the kit which my body can't now do, for the time being. And this time around it's a 40+ year old body. That's a great recipe for injuries. Your videos have been so helpful for taking care of my physical wellbeing on the kit. Thanks so much for sharing your wonderful knowledge.
After using a moto style seat with back rest for over 12 years and finally opting for a flat, round seat again. I can definitely attest to the round flat style being better on my back.
I've had this expensive 'motorcycle' throne for 200 pounds but since then it felt somehow uncomfortable behind the kit. Watched your video, bought a round one for 80 pounds and guess what .... It feels more comfortable to play now :) Thanks mate!
I’m a Physical Therapist. I’ve put thousands of hours into improving treating/understanding spinal conditions. I love good research/science. I spend a considerable amount of time trying to explain to people the importance of finding true relationship b/w cause & affect with the body/symptoms. In so doing i tell people save your $$$ and use good sense. Don’t throw your $$$ away on topicals and gadgets Good body mechanics, some strengthening/stretching goes a long way. You did a great job with this video. I play the drums some and I think this is rock solid advice👍
Great video and explanation. I have a DW5000 round top throne and then bought Ahead's Spinal G tractor seat. In the beginning I thought the Ahead throne was more comfortable, especially with the thought that it relieved pressure from my spine. After a few years of owning both though, I realized that I play better and with less fatigue on hips and lower back on the regular round top.
Hey dude, enjoyed your video. I've begun a daily meditation practice throughout the pandemic and jumped down the throne rabbit hole (again) after realizing how to sit on my sit bones correctly by sitting daily on a wooden yoga block with a thin blanket over it. Shockingly enough, I am able to sit on that for MUCH longer than any drum throne, so it prompted me to search. The best option in the drum world seems to be a decent firm round top throne, but, have you looked into saddle stools/chairs? The data on them is actually quite promising, and there are several studies out there that suggest not only improved natural curvature of the spine but also increased shoulder girdle stability which can increase overall effectiveness of the limbs (both power and dexterity). They're used a bunch by dentists, tattoo artists, massage therapists, docs, and others. Average height range is like 21-28" so they're right in the bread and butter range of a drum throne. Figured it'd be worth checking out since it sounds like your wheelhouse.
Long time drummer, Our guitarist gave me a hydraulic chair from his fathers shop. the pedestal has five claws and an oversized seat.I still use it today thirty plus years later and it still works great.
Hey Brandon, excellent video and description of the Physicality of Playing Drums and what Throne to use. I'm 69 YO, with spinal issues which include lumbar stenosis, Facet Joint Arthritis, Scoliosis of 25 degrees, and a 1 inch shorter right leg. The shorter leg is a result of a fractured femur, playing HS Football in 1966 (at 15 years of age). That shorter leg has caused Havoc with my well being, principally because, the doctor back then offered no advice about wearing a corrective shoe for the rest of my life. My European Immigrant parents didn't think to question that. The damage is done. I have resurrected playing drums after a 51 year Hiatus when my Wife got me a Kit in 2018 for XMAS. I currently use a Motorcycle Seat Throne form Gibraltar. It's good, but I recent,ly saw a DW 9000 Tractor Seat with Air Lift and thought this may be a better throne for me. I only play about 1 hour a day for Retirement Pleasure, but I do Deal with Back, Mid Back, and Neck Chronic pain for many years. Your thoughts about this seat is very appreciated, before I lay out $270 (Sweetwater). THX again.
After seeing this, there was no scientific approach to select which throne is the best for me (still not know whether my round XY brand/type is OK or not). I learned from this that the 3rd type of extraordinary one is not goot. Just because of your _opinion_ as you said. That is not too scientific anyway. So can I get the best drum throne that cause no back pain based on your knowledge shared here? Er... no. Thanks a lot!
This is excellent information. I suffer from low back pain especially when sitting on a drum throne. I currently have a Tama 1st Chair motorcycle seat. I’ve thought for quite a while that a round flat seat would be better. I was even thinking about a split seat. This video has been very helpful in choosing a new throne.
Turn the Spinal G ROUND (much firmer than tractor style from Ahead) sideways so that your channel runs at the 9 and 3 o'clock position. Sit a little forward so only the back half of your ass hovers above the channel/back sphere of seat.
I used to love Pearl hardware, and for the most part I still do, but those thrones break if you raise the seat up. I think they expected everyone to be low riders.
I haven't played drums in 20 years due to back pain. I can not sit on a standard throne without feeling pain. I've never tried any of these new thrones but I would like to. You mentioned the design of the "space in the middle" system is a cash grab with no scientific people involved in its design. However, the person who invented it is a chiropractor or physical therapist. As far as I know Carmichael is not the originator of the design. I think Carmichael, Ahead and few others license the design from this man. His product is called Motion Pro which is the only version that has the space but also has springs underneath the seat. Supposedly, the separate halves of the seat combined with the springs allow for pelvic movement and like you said relaxation of the tailbone. Carmichael and the others do not have springs and they probably do not have permission to use them on their versions. So that may be why you're seeing that foam separation on the Carmichael. The design is incomplete. It's possible the springs solve that issue. These kinds of thrones are not readily available in a lot of music stores but if I ever get to try one of them, I'll finally know for myself if it's real or a gimmick. I would speculate there is some validity on some level if not 100%. I can not go back to standard thrones even if I wanted to; so if it does not work out I just go back to my usual life. I have nothing to lose really. Only my love of playing drums.
I just bought an ahead and got it today. Now I know what my spinal issues are and they don't have anything to do with drumming. What I did immediately notice was that the seat allowed me to balance better which I think in the long run will help with my issues. Ill have to spend time on it to see but the one thing I do know is that the flat round seat didnt have enough give for me and has been a problem for awhile. I dont think you can just put a big no on a design without knowing why there is pain to begin with.
I'm a 300 lb drummer. Thats right. A big beefy dude with a bicycle roc n soc throne. ABSOLUTELY HATE IT. The way its padded and no under-leg support cuz of its shape forces me to brace myself from leaning forward. I can't wait to buy a round flat throne. I absolutely hate my roc n soc and how I need to bend my spine backwards so far just to crack it cuz it's sore.
I respectfully disagree regarding the Carmichael throne, based on my real experience. I had coccyx pain from sitting on traditional flat drum thrones for extended periods. Bought a Carmichael split throne and it WORKS by removing the pressure on the end of the spine. I have had no other problems as a result of using this throne for extended periods. The seat foam is very solid, the two halves do not seem to "spread apart" under pressure. For the same reason, I also have an orthopaedic desk chair with a coccyx cutout in the seat cushion (like the old Pearl Roadmaster drum stool) and it WORKS. I can't speak for other spit designs like the MotionPro or Ahead, but I'm thinking of buying a MotionPro to try it as it's supposed to be a bit softer and more comfortable.
I bought my first drum set a couple of months ago. A Tama imperialstar. I think it's a great kit for a newbie like myself but Tama did cheap out on the throne. I'm not a big guy either and my ass hurts after about an hour. There's just not enough padding on it. A couple of days ago I ordered the Ahead spinal G. People seem to agree they are very comfortable. One thing I really need to work on is my posture behind the kit. I find myself slouching a lot
Brandon, thank you for sharing your knowledge! But I have used a round throne for 20 years and have now switched to the Ahead round spinal-g throne. I find it so much better for my back. I dont get numb after playing for a long time like I did with the normal round throne. I would like to point out that the Ahead version has a narrower split than the Carmichael throne and is also quite dense to not let ones movements affect the seat. Just a personal view. Thank you.
This guy seems to have the same experience th-cam.com/video/ljYmQUIF3KQ/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=DennisLeeflang maybe there's something too it? Love to hear your opinion on this since I'm looking to buy a throne and also have a history of back-problems.
One thing that is NOT worth paying for in a drum throne is a pneumatic height adjuster, it feels wobbly AH on both ends of the lift and kind of spongy, too. These are the $300 seats, don't buy one. The threaded spindle types are wobbly at the top & bottom, too, and not worth spending extra money on, they run $200-250. The heavy duty stands with a manual adjustment & a memory lock are the best for a single drummer, once you get the right height, you will always be there. Ex: Mapex T670, manual adjustment with a big 4"x14" seat, for under $100. Best seat, best value.
When I play on a pneumatic throne I feel like wasted energy goes into bouncing the throne. Maybe this energy normally just goes into the stage or drum riser but I never feel stable on them.
What isn’t mentioned is how the split throne allows blood to flow between your legs. One issue I had as a cyclist was my groin & penis going numb from prolonged pressure on that area. Road cycle seats have a split like that to keep this from happening. On long gigs with a solid throne, I found the same thing happening to my junk and a split throne alleviated it. Trust me...it’s not just for your back.
Hi Ross, thanks so much for pointing this out. This is a note I have read in the marketing of the product however haven’t been able to find any quantifiable studies to support this claim. As a biomechanics specialist professionally, I stay “in my lane” by focusing on internal and external forces on the body. If you have any literature for blood flow I’d love to read it! Glad to hear you have had such a great experience.
@@brandondrummechanics: Other than my own experience of perineum blockage from pressure, I did find this: www.onhealth.com/content/1/groin_numbness_and_bike_riding
Is there a brand of good comfort and longevity you would suggest these days? I'm mainly a classical style guitarist, I do other styles with that technique as well, but I am also building a drum set for recording and studio purposes. While doing so I realized that I need to find a seat that will be stable and consistent and good for my back for performing on guitar, rather than relying on the chairs available in the gig site or just a walmart chair that is comfortable enough. Normally for guitar I sit toward the corner of a chair so my legs can be spread more for holding the guitar at proper angle. I think either the round drum throne or a bucket seat thrown is likely best for that. But as I am thinking about this and moving away from using a foot stool to hold the guitar and other devices to hold it up I feel the actual seat in modern days is able to be changed easily enough that the chair for our posture should also be a part of even my lesson teaching. I think an affordable quality drum throne is likely the best route for us guitarist for comfort whether it be a small back brace or more important the legs being free and adjustability for height differences to keep the legs at preferred levels. I would greatly appreciate some quality suggestions that I, or I can suggest to students, from musicians more familiar with these products!
I'd love to hear your thoughts/review on the Porter & Davies BC Gigster throne and what, if any, impact the transducer has on the health of the spine. I got ahold of one recently and lately I've noticed back pain after 3 songs, I then swap back in my Roc N Soc nitro and the issue isn't there. I'm torn with the Porter & Davies because we know: A.) They aren't cheap and B.) They are really fun to play on. Thanks for this video!
Hey Brandon. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I had a lot of back pain some years ago and the only thing that help me was to start exercising my Abdominal Muscles and take daily hikes on natural terrain using barefoot shoes. But I do suffer from pain on my buttocks. My throne is a TAMA first chair. I think the foam is just to hard. But I also have the same pain when I sit on my PC Chair. (I do take rests and stand up every 30 minutes) So I was thinking on getting one of those Stealth ErgoLab Chairs. Have you heard about them? They are supposed help with their moving design. Their video reminded me one your videos about the drum throne height. were you talk about the inclination of the legs. What do you think about these chairs? are just snake oil? A big hug and thanks again for your help and time
I am in the market for a round-flat & firm, double braced, spindal type with tripod leg, cloth-top throne. Would you recommend a Round Top Roc n Soc? I have my doubts about the 'donut' shape of the round cushion. They are not exactly flat. Others I found that fit the need are DW5000, Sonor 4000 or 6000. What would you recommend in 2023 that doesn't go wobbly in no time? P.S I used the Pearl D1000 for years! It's a great one. Firm and supports the lumbar nicely. It's a shame they don't make it any more. Completely agree about the Carmichael thrones.
Hello I just saw your video I have a question. I have a very bad left hip and very bad sciatica I have been using a tractor type seat with a slit in the middle Made by AHEAD . I thought it would help but it's only making it harder for me It puts pressure on my left thigh causing hip pain And the slit in the middle does nothing for my lower back in sciatica what throne would you recommend ? Thank you so much loved your video
Brandon, thank you so much for this video! Like Michael, I've gotten back into drumming after a long absence. That absence was due to military service, which has led to L3-L5 degenerative disk issues. Being 6'2" & 250 lbs, it's a little hard to find good thrones. I'd appreciate any recommendations you might have. Obviously, NO CARMICHAEL's!
Thanks for the comment. Honestly I would suggest experimenting with his many as you can. If you assess your active range of motion and stay within a moderate- mid range with a throne that that supports your specific proportions, you should be good.
Brandon, do hydraulic thrones help? I was thinking about the "shock absorption" factor. After an 18 year break from drumming I am hoping to play again....I am highly concerned about my lower back as it is not in good shape.
Long story short is no. It might feel comfortable when you first sit down on it but the shock absorption benefits of the seat really do not help the back. In fact, it can increase the opportunity for more kinetic energy being transferred into the back depending on the shock absorber, force and frequency. Ultimately, another fancy try by music companies to do something healthy with little evidence.
Great resource Brandon! I've been experiencing two issues lately. Backpain but what's worst is actually a cramp like feeling in my left calf and lower hamstring. The weird thing is the left leg isn't really doing anything at the moment. I'm working on fills and all it does maybe a HiHat open close on the beat in-between. I've had muscle burning before when working on double bass but nothing like this. I'd been thinking that a bucket seat might help but now I'm not sure anymore 😅 Any idea what this might be?
Nice video! I've been drumming on the same throne (very similar to the round Pearl one in your video) for 2 years and everytime I sit on my kit to practice my legs go numb after 20 minutes, and I also get 'pelvic pressure' after a while which i relieve by leaning/stretching forward for a bit and then continue playing...no idea why this happens to me and I've been thinking of investing into a better round style throne with a larger base. Went in to my local music store and tried out their motorcycle style seats and the ahead spinal glide throne but found them to be a bit 'off'. I found the round ones naturally more comfortable. I'm also flat footed so I'm not sure if that is contributing to my leg numbness or maybe it's my throne.
Thanks so much for the comment. If you’re still getting that sensation in your lower back, check what is your drum throne height is too low or too high. In my experience, the extremes are where people have weird spinal mechanics that lead unwanted in stations in the low back. Hope you’re feeling better now!
I use both the bucket seat and a flat throne. Mostly I use the bucket seat, but no matter which throne I use, I start to experience discomfort; first, in my right leg, where the femur joins the pelvis. Second, after about 30 minutes of practice (or playing), I get sciatica going down my left leg (Hi-hat leg). I've been experimenting with seat height and distance from the trap but don't seem to solve the issue. Can you make any suggestions. The right leg pain issue started after I changed my bass drum technique. I'm trying to increase my pedal speed, and I started working with a rocking, continuous-release type of motion in my right foot, which requires lifting my leg to get movement in my right foot. It's kind of a cross between heel/toe and heel up.
I think your Analysis of the split throne is pretty far off. I am not a personal trainer, I am a professional drummer. I spend as much as eight hours a day sitting on a drum throne and for me the relief on the “male undercarriage” provided by a split throne is great for me. The idea that it’s splitting so wide that we are gonna I’m gonna fall into the gap is just not true in reality. I believe you understand the human anatomy, but I don’t believe that you understand the physics of that throne. -Jim Riley
Great video. I have a motorcycle style Gibraltar throne and a cheap round Dixon throne. I prefer the Dixon. Both came with second hand drumsets I bought so I never got to test them new. Problem I have is even if I tighten them up both wobble, especially the Gibraltar. Is that normal? Will every throne have some sort of play? I find it affects my balance and my torso, especially my abs engage in order to stabilise me and it affects my double pedal playing.
Thank you for this video! I have been playing on a cheap (very cheap) throne that hurts my back if I play longer than an hour, and I’ve been wanting to purchase a new one. They cost a lot in my country and I was thinking of investing even a little more for a hydraulic throne, but after seeing your reply about hydraulics^ I’m going to invest a little less money for a better throne, (a flat round top) sjc gibralter josh dun signature throne, is it okay for playing for long durations of time?
Are there any particular models you would recommend? I've got an old Tama throne that I've had for years that has become a little wobbly and no amount of tightening will prevent it from swiveling from under me. I have been looking at the Roc-n-soc flat models which are nice and wide and do not move around or wobble.
I have a carmickael type of throne because i always had cocyx and sacro-illiac arthiritis and it made me able to play without pain for a long time. But do you think i may create a another problem. And what type of throne would be best to avoid pain? Thx :)
hey dude - found your video after buying a spinal g "carmichael idea" throne. I have spondylolisthesis and this throne does not releive any pain whatsoever, I'd prefer something softer. Can you please recommend a specific throne for me to get? there are so many to choose from! great video and thoughts.
We'll do a whole video on this... Good for somethings, not as effective as the marketing suggestions though. Don't believe me, i'll do my best the break down the mechanics for your own conclusion
This is a great video. Thank you for the information I do have a question please. Most of these discussions revolve around back pain, however in my case it is my butt and the back of my legs that becomes sore or numb after playing for a long time. Can you advise on which type of throne is best for that situation? I don't like tractor style thrones for the same reason that you mentioned. However I'm considering to see if it helps with numbness in the butt and back of my legs. Please let me know your thoughts.
Scientific? If you don't want to have back pain then support your back!! Backrest please. No discussion or rocket science needed. Been playing 34 years and never had back pain. Not a minute.
"Drum Throne - The killer seat" the most stup*d seat ever created it will kill you, do not use it you can have a backpain or lower body part bleeding... use a simple chain(even plastic) with back support put a pillow under for blood circulation, you can drums even a whole day without problems then try to standup(1min) after every 1song you drum... in this way you can enjoy drumming a lot for years
![[TH] VALORANT Champions Seoul - Grand Final - EDG vs TH](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WvObMc9VelI/mqdefault.jpg)
Great insight! I own 3 thrones, traditional, bike seat, and square (old Yamaha DS-1000). I’ve used the round thrones for years and played with finding the proper height. I often found myself slouching a lot of the time, resulting in back pain as well as numbness in my less from having the front pinching my legs. Playing for musical theatre requires a lot of sitting, especially when the audience can see you. I bought a Roc-N-Soc bicycle seat throne with a back rest and have it adjusted well. No issues. The back rest is set just enough to make light contact with my back, which has kept me conscious of posture. I play for a few churches on their own kits, most with round thrones and I just don’t like them. I’ve tried the split thrones, but found them too expensive to buy and try for any length of time.
You’re better off with the basic thrones anyway! :-)
Thank you, Brandon. You just saved me a bunch of money. I own a Dixon throne that is round and flat. It is 3.25" thick. I was thinking about getting a motorcycle style throne. My back doesn't get sore as much as it stiffens up, BUT I am 72 years old, and I don't really think any throne can eliminate that. I'll stick with my current throne. Thank you again for your informative talk.
Glad to hear! The simpler form lets your body organize itself well. I've got a follow up video ill be doing soon about my new DW9000 throne, round, and why i chose it!
I'll never give up my motorcycle style seat throne & go back to a trad. drum stool. It immediately improved my ergonomics/bio-mechanics, moving around the kit and control/range of motion of both feet. I just wished I had figured it out 30 yrs. ago...
Glad you found what works for you!!! Thanks for sharing
Hey Brandon!
Finally - someone did a neutral and scientifically based view on this!!! We need more of this :-)
As a physical scientist and a athletic and performance coach and a drummer I completely agree with your view... It is important to give people an "out of the commercial box" view and enable drummers to understand what their body is telling them instead of listening to all the influencers´ miracles. In this context I hate affiliate links, by the way - no offense!
Keep on bringing such important connections and conclusions on point! I really appreciate your work...
Thanx a lot.
Thanks Nina! Completely understand. No affiliate links here! Will continue to not sell anything
Slide to me! I got five more videos cute up to come out in the next five weeks! Very excited
One of my current favourite channels on TH-cam! I was a professional drummer in my early 20s, then didn't play for years, and now that I've returned to playing I find that my mind is aiming for things on the kit which my body can't now do, for the time being. And this time around it's a 40+ year old body. That's a great recipe for injuries. Your videos have been so helpful for taking care of my physical wellbeing on the kit. Thanks so much for sharing your wonderful knowledge.
You’re too kind! Thanks for checking everything out. Glad to have you here 🔥
After using a moto style seat with back rest for over 12 years and finally opting for a flat, round seat again. I can definitely attest to the round flat style being better on my back.
I've had this expensive 'motorcycle' throne for 200 pounds but since then it felt somehow uncomfortable behind the kit.
Watched your video, bought a round one for 80 pounds and guess what .... It feels more comfortable to play now :)
Thanks mate!
Awesome, Chris. Glad to hear! Thanks for the comment. It’s funny how “basic” can be best at times.
I’m a Physical Therapist. I’ve put thousands of hours into improving treating/understanding spinal conditions. I love good research/science. I spend a considerable amount of time trying to explain to people the importance of finding true relationship b/w cause & affect with the body/symptoms. In so doing i tell people save your $$$ and use good sense. Don’t throw your $$$ away on topicals and gadgets Good body mechanics, some strengthening/stretching goes a long way. You did a great job with this video. I play the drums some and I think this is rock solid advice👍
Great video and explanation. I have a DW5000 round top throne and then bought Ahead's Spinal G tractor seat. In the beginning I thought the Ahead throne was more comfortable, especially with the thought that it relieved pressure from my spine. After a few years of owning both though, I realized that I play better and with less fatigue on hips and lower back on the regular round top.
awesome! Love hearing that. The round tops are simple and ergonomically sound. Glad to hear about your experience
Hey dude, enjoyed your video. I've begun a daily meditation practice throughout the pandemic and jumped down the throne rabbit hole (again) after realizing how to sit on my sit bones correctly by sitting daily on a wooden yoga block with a thin blanket over it. Shockingly enough, I am able to sit on that for MUCH longer than any drum throne, so it prompted me to search. The best option in the drum world seems to be a decent firm round top throne, but, have you looked into saddle stools/chairs? The data on them is actually quite promising, and there are several studies out there that suggest not only improved natural curvature of the spine but also increased shoulder girdle stability which can increase overall effectiveness of the limbs (both power and dexterity). They're used a bunch by dentists, tattoo artists, massage therapists, docs, and others. Average height range is like 21-28" so they're right in the bread and butter range of a drum throne. Figured it'd be worth checking out since it sounds like your wheelhouse.
Long time drummer,
Our guitarist gave me a hydraulic chair from his fathers shop. the pedestal has five claws and an oversized seat.I still use it today thirty plus years later and it still works great.
Glad to hear, Basher!!
Thank you so much for this. I've been researching thrones for a week, and you provided precisely the sort of info I needed.
So happy to hear! Glad it helps !!
Hey Brandon, excellent video and description of the Physicality of Playing Drums and what Throne to use. I'm 69 YO, with spinal issues which include lumbar stenosis, Facet Joint Arthritis, Scoliosis of 25 degrees, and a 1 inch shorter right leg. The shorter leg is a result of a fractured femur, playing HS Football in 1966 (at 15 years of age). That shorter leg has caused Havoc with my well being, principally because, the doctor back then offered no advice about wearing a corrective shoe for the rest of my life. My European Immigrant parents didn't think to question that. The damage is done. I have resurrected playing drums after a 51 year Hiatus when my Wife got me a Kit in 2018 for XMAS. I currently use a Motorcycle Seat Throne form Gibraltar. It's good, but I recent,ly saw a DW 9000 Tractor Seat with Air Lift and thought this may be a better throne for me. I only play about 1 hour a day for Retirement Pleasure, but I do Deal with Back, Mid Back, and Neck Chronic pain for many years. Your thoughts about this seat is very appreciated, before I lay out $270 (Sweetwater). THX again.
"Unless you have some organs that you need to have that space for" - dude I'm so dead lol. Great channel :)
After seeing this, there was no scientific approach to select which throne is the best for me (still not know whether my round XY brand/type is OK or not). I learned from this that the 3rd type of extraordinary one is not goot. Just because of your _opinion_ as you said. That is not too scientific anyway.
So can I get the best drum throne that cause no back pain based on your knowledge shared here? Er... no. Thanks a lot!
This is excellent information. I suffer from low back pain especially when sitting on a drum throne. I currently have a Tama 1st Chair motorcycle seat. I’ve thought for quite a while that a round flat seat would be better. I was even thinking about a split seat. This video has been very helpful in choosing a new throne.
Happy to help! Thanks so much for checking this out.
Turn the Spinal G ROUND (much firmer than tractor style from Ahead) sideways so that your channel runs at the 9 and 3 o'clock position. Sit a little forward so only the back half of your ass hovers above the channel/back sphere of seat.
I used to love Pearl hardware, and for the most part I still do, but those thrones break if you raise the seat up. I think they expected everyone to be low riders.
I haven't played drums in 20 years due to back pain. I can not sit on a standard throne without feeling pain. I've never tried any of these new thrones but I would like to. You mentioned the design of the "space in the middle" system is a cash grab with no scientific people involved in its design. However, the person who invented it is a chiropractor or physical therapist. As far as I know Carmichael is not the originator of the design. I think Carmichael, Ahead and few others license the design from this man. His product is called Motion Pro which is the only version that has the space but also has springs underneath the seat. Supposedly, the separate halves of the seat combined with the springs allow for pelvic movement and like you said relaxation of the tailbone. Carmichael and the others do not have springs and they probably do not have permission to use them on their versions. So that may be why you're seeing that foam separation on the Carmichael. The design is incomplete. It's possible the springs solve that issue. These kinds of thrones are not readily available in a lot of music stores but if I ever get to try one of them, I'll finally know for myself if it's real or a gimmick. I would speculate there is some validity on some level if not 100%. I can not go back to standard thrones even if I wanted to; so if it does not work out I just go back to my usual life. I have nothing to lose really. Only my love of playing drums.
I just bought an ahead and got it today. Now I know what my spinal issues are and they don't have anything to do with drumming. What I did immediately notice was that the seat allowed me to balance better which I think in the long run will help with my issues. Ill have to spend time on it to see but the one thing I do know is that the flat round seat didnt have enough give for me and has been a problem for awhile. I dont think you can just put a big no on a design without knowing why there is pain to begin with.
I'm a 300 lb drummer. Thats right. A big beefy dude with a bicycle roc n soc throne. ABSOLUTELY HATE IT. The way its padded and no under-leg support cuz of its shape forces me to brace myself from leaning forward. I can't wait to buy a round flat throne. I absolutely hate my roc n soc and how I need to bend my spine backwards so far just to crack it cuz it's sore.
I respectfully disagree regarding the Carmichael throne, based on my real experience. I had coccyx pain from sitting on traditional flat drum thrones for extended periods. Bought a Carmichael split throne and it WORKS by removing the pressure on the end of the spine. I have had no other problems as a result of using this throne for extended periods. The seat foam is very solid, the two halves do not seem to "spread apart" under pressure. For the same reason, I also have an orthopaedic desk chair with a coccyx cutout in the seat cushion (like the old Pearl Roadmaster drum stool) and it WORKS. I can't speak for other spit designs like the MotionPro or Ahead, but I'm thinking of buying a MotionPro to try it as it's supposed to be a bit softer and more comfortable.
I bought my first drum set a couple of months ago. A Tama imperialstar. I think it's a great kit for a newbie like myself but Tama did cheap out on the throne. I'm not a big guy either and my ass hurts after about an hour. There's just not enough padding on it. A couple of days ago I ordered the Ahead spinal G. People seem to agree they are very comfortable. One thing I really need to work on is my posture behind the kit. I find myself slouching a lot
Brandon, thank you for sharing your knowledge! But I have used a round throne for 20 years and have now switched to the Ahead round spinal-g throne. I find it so much better for my back. I dont get numb after playing for a long time like I did with the normal round throne. I would like to point out that the Ahead version has a narrower split than the Carmichael throne and is also quite dense to not let ones movements affect the seat. Just a personal view. Thank you.
This guy seems to have the same experience th-cam.com/video/ljYmQUIF3KQ/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=DennisLeeflang maybe there's something too it? Love to hear your opinion on this since I'm looking to buy a throne and also have a history of back-problems.
The AHEAD spinal glide was a game changer for me!! You can sit for hours with no discomfort, especially lacking that pain when you stand up
One thing that is NOT worth paying for in a drum throne is a pneumatic height adjuster, it feels wobbly AH on both ends of the lift and kind of spongy, too. These are the $300 seats, don't buy one. The threaded spindle types are wobbly at the top & bottom, too, and not worth spending extra money on, they run $200-250. The heavy duty stands with a manual adjustment & a memory lock are the best for a single drummer, once you get the right height, you will always be there. Ex: Mapex T670, manual adjustment with a big 4"x14" seat, for under $100. Best seat, best value.
When I play on a pneumatic throne I feel like wasted energy goes into bouncing the throne. Maybe this energy normally just goes into the stage or drum riser but I never feel stable on them.
Great video. Excellent lighting too!
I really like this discussion for bball shoe market and cushions too.
Nice one! Thanks for videos 🥁🙌🏻 Keep it up!
Awesome, great info man! Thank you!
I have a roadster throne!
Thank you. It's very informative. 🙏🏽🙂
Thank you for making this.
Thank you :)
What isn’t mentioned is how the split throne allows blood to flow between your legs.
One issue I had as a cyclist was my groin & penis going numb from prolonged pressure on that area.
Road cycle seats have a split like that to keep this from happening. On long gigs with a solid throne, I found the same thing happening to my junk and a split throne alleviated it.
Trust me...it’s not just for your back.
Hi Ross, thanks so much for pointing this out. This is a note I have read in the marketing of the product however haven’t been able to find any quantifiable studies to support this claim. As a biomechanics specialist professionally, I stay “in my lane” by focusing on internal and external forces on the body.
If you have any literature for blood flow I’d love to read it!
Glad to hear you have had such a great experience.
@@brandondrummechanics: Other than my own experience of perineum blockage from pressure, I did find this:
www.onhealth.com/content/1/groin_numbness_and_bike_riding
Thanks for sharing this. I’ll check it out. Always appreciate new information
Is there a brand of good comfort and longevity you would suggest these days? I'm mainly a classical style guitarist, I do other styles with that technique as well, but I am also building a drum set for recording and studio purposes. While doing so I realized that I need to find a seat that will be stable and consistent and good for my back for performing on guitar, rather than relying on the chairs available in the gig site or just a walmart chair that is comfortable enough. Normally for guitar I sit toward the corner of a chair so my legs can be spread more for holding the guitar at proper angle. I think either the round drum throne or a bucket seat thrown is likely best for that. But as I am thinking about this and moving away from using a foot stool to hold the guitar and other devices to hold it up I feel the actual seat in modern days is able to be changed easily enough that the chair for our posture should also be a part of even my lesson teaching. I think an affordable quality drum throne is likely the best route for us guitarist for comfort whether it be a small back brace or more important the legs being free and adjustability for height differences to keep the legs at preferred levels.
I would greatly appreciate some quality suggestions that I, or I can suggest to students, from musicians more familiar with these products!
Thank you so much for these videos. I would be keen to know what style of throne is best for hip pain and clicking. Motorcycle style vs round.
That really depends on where the pain is and what motion you have available - have you had a chance to try different thrones and different heights?
Thanks
I'd love to hear your thoughts/review on the Porter & Davies BC Gigster throne and what, if any, impact the transducer has on the health of the spine. I got ahold of one recently and lately I've noticed back pain after 3 songs, I then swap back in my Roc N Soc nitro and the issue isn't there. I'm torn with the Porter & Davies because we know: A.) They aren't cheap and B.) They are really fun to play on. Thanks for this video!
Would be nice to hear your opinion on thrones with vs without backrests
Also called a confirmation bias
Excellent video! Thank you. 🙏
Hey Brandon. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I had a lot of back pain some years ago and the only thing that help me was to start exercising my Abdominal Muscles and take daily hikes on natural terrain using barefoot shoes. But I do suffer from pain on my buttocks. My throne is a TAMA first chair. I think the foam is just to hard. But I also have the same pain when I sit on my PC Chair. (I do take rests and stand up every 30 minutes) So I was thinking on getting one of those Stealth ErgoLab Chairs. Have you heard about them? They are supposed help with their moving design. Their video reminded me one your videos about the drum throne height. were you talk about the inclination of the legs. What do you think about these chairs? are just snake oil? A big hug and thanks again for your help and time
I am in the market for a round-flat & firm, double braced, spindal type with tripod leg, cloth-top throne. Would you recommend a Round Top Roc n Soc? I have my doubts about the 'donut' shape of the round cushion. They are not exactly flat. Others I found that fit the need are DW5000, Sonor 4000 or 6000. What would you recommend in 2023 that doesn't go wobbly in no time?
P.S I used the Pearl D1000 for years! It's a great one. Firm and supports the lumbar nicely. It's a shame they don't make it any more. Completely agree about the Carmichael thrones.
Hello I just saw your video I have a question. I have a very bad left hip and very bad sciatica I have been using a tractor type seat with a slit in the middle Made by AHEAD . I thought it would help but it's only making it harder for me It puts pressure on my left thigh causing hip pain And the slit in the middle does nothing for my lower back in sciatica what throne would you recommend ? Thank you so much loved your video
Damn i have the exact throne u showing here and i was about to buy another one !
It’s a decent one!!! I just got into the Dw9000 round. Love that one too!
Brandon, thank you so much for this video! Like Michael, I've gotten back into drumming after a long absence. That absence was due to military service, which has led to L3-L5 degenerative disk issues. Being 6'2" & 250 lbs, it's a little hard to find good thrones. I'd appreciate any recommendations you might have. Obviously, NO CARMICHAEL's!
Thanks for the comment. Honestly I would suggest experimenting with his many as you can. If you assess your active range of motion and stay within a moderate- mid range with a throne that that supports your specific proportions, you should be good.
in theory u are right,in practic u are not ,i have AHEAD throne ,and it is best ,no back pain,...also its less warm when practicing..
I have a Carmichael throne and I feel that it is the best!!!
Mechanics aside, you can’t argue with subjective sensations. Glad it is working for you!
Brandon, do hydraulic thrones help? I was thinking about the "shock absorption" factor. After an 18 year break from drumming I am hoping to play again....I am highly concerned about my lower back as it is not in good shape.
Long story short is no. It might feel comfortable when you first sit down on it but the shock absorption benefits of the seat really do not help the back. In fact, it can increase the opportunity for more kinetic energy being transferred into the back depending on the shock absorber, force and frequency.
Ultimately, another fancy try by music companies to do something healthy with little evidence.
@@brandondrummechanics thank you for taking the time to answer. :-) Blessings to you!
Excellent video, but so much reverb in your room, difficult to understand you and distracting . A close mike it the best .
What are the bouncy throne called or like what kind are they
No idea and I’d suggest not worrying about it :)
Great resource Brandon! I've been experiencing two issues lately. Backpain but what's worst is actually a cramp like feeling in my left calf and lower hamstring. The weird thing is the left leg isn't really doing anything at the moment.
I'm working on fills and all it does maybe a HiHat open close on the beat in-between.
I've had muscle burning before when working on double bass but nothing like this.
I'd been thinking that a bucket seat might help but now I'm not sure anymore 😅
Any idea what this might be?
Nice video! I've been drumming on the same throne (very similar to the round Pearl one in your video) for 2 years and everytime I sit on my kit to practice my legs go numb after 20 minutes, and I also get 'pelvic pressure' after a while which i relieve by leaning/stretching forward for a bit and then continue playing...no idea why this happens to me and I've been thinking of investing into a better round style throne with a larger base. Went in to my local music store and tried out their motorcycle style seats and the ahead spinal glide throne but found them to be a bit 'off'. I found the round ones naturally more comfortable. I'm also flat footed so I'm not sure if that is contributing to my leg numbness or maybe it's my throne.
Thanks so much for the comment. If you’re still getting that sensation in your lower back, check what is your drum throne height is too low or too high. In my experience, the extremes are where people have weird spinal mechanics that lead unwanted in stations in the low back. Hope you’re feeling better now!
Ps. Hey Toronto, I’m in Newmarket 🔥
@@brandondrummechanics Thank you I'll look into checking the height!
@@brandondrummechanics Right on!! 🔥🔥
I use both the bucket seat and a flat throne. Mostly I use the bucket seat, but no matter which throne I use, I start to experience discomfort; first, in my right leg, where the femur joins the pelvis. Second, after about 30 minutes of practice (or playing), I get sciatica going down my left leg (Hi-hat leg). I've been experimenting with seat height and distance from the trap but don't seem to solve the issue. Can you make any suggestions. The right leg pain issue started after I changed my bass drum technique. I'm trying to increase my pedal speed, and I started working with a rocking, continuous-release type of motion in my right foot, which requires lifting my leg to get movement in my right foot. It's kind of a cross between heel/toe and heel up.
I think your Analysis of the split throne is pretty far off.
I am not a personal trainer, I am a professional drummer.
I spend as much as eight hours a day sitting on a drum throne and for me the relief on the “male undercarriage” provided by a split throne is great for me.
The idea that it’s splitting so wide that we are gonna I’m gonna fall into the gap is just not true in reality.
I believe you understand the human anatomy, but I don’t believe that you understand the physics of that throne.
-Jim Riley
Thanks for the feedback Jim. Appreciate it. Glad it works for you
Great video. I have a motorcycle style Gibraltar throne and a cheap round Dixon throne. I prefer the Dixon. Both came with second hand drumsets I bought so I never got to test them new. Problem I have is even if I tighten them up both wobble, especially the Gibraltar. Is that normal? Will every throne have some sort of play? I find it affects my balance and my torso, especially my abs engage in order to stabilise me and it affects my double pedal playing.
What about the pearl roadster D-1500? What's your opinion?
Thank you for this video! I have been playing on a cheap (very cheap) throne that hurts my back if I play longer than an hour, and I’ve been wanting to purchase a new one. They cost a lot in my country and I was thinking of investing even a little more for a hydraulic throne, but after seeing your reply about hydraulics^ I’m going to invest a little less money for a better throne, (a flat round top) sjc gibralter josh dun signature throne, is it okay for playing for long durations of time?
Are there any particular models you would recommend? I've got an old Tama throne that I've had for years that has become a little wobbly and no amount of tightening will prevent it from swiveling from under me. I have been looking at the Roc-n-soc flat models which are nice and wide and do not move around or wobble.
I have a carmickael type of throne because i always had cocyx and sacro-illiac arthiritis and it made me able to play without pain for a long time. But do you think i may create a another problem. And what type of throne would be best to avoid pain? Thx :)
hey dude - found your video after buying a spinal g "carmichael idea" throne. I have spondylolisthesis and this throne does not releive any pain whatsoever, I'd prefer something softer. Can you please recommend a specific throne for me to get? there are so many to choose from!
great video and thoughts.
Supposedly the porkpie round thrones have the most cushiony comfortable seat while also being a basic round shape
😕 What about using a backrest?
We'll do a whole video on this... Good for somethings, not as effective as the marketing suggestions though. Don't believe me, i'll do my best the break down the mechanics for your own conclusion
This is a great video. Thank you for the information
I do have a question please. Most of these discussions revolve around back pain, however in my case it is my butt and the back of my legs that becomes sore or numb after playing for a long time.
Can you advise on which type of throne is best for that situation?
I don't like tractor style thrones for the same reason that you mentioned. However I'm considering to see if it helps with numbness in the butt and back of my legs. Please let me know your thoughts.
Everyone already has a slit in the middle so it is not necessary to supplement it further.
The carmichael style looks like it would lead to hemorrhoids
👍🔥🔥👍
thanks!!!
Scientific? If you don't want to have back pain then support your back!! Backrest please. No discussion or rocket science needed. Been playing 34 years and never had back pain. Not a minute.
Thanks for the comment, Alan. Glad to hear you're feeling so good and found something that works for you!
Sit on it Potsie! Anyone?
Hahaha that's my throne
"Drum Throne - The killer seat" the most stup*d seat ever created it will kill you, do not use it you can have a backpain or lower body part bleeding... use a simple chain(even plastic) with back support put a pillow under for blood circulation, you can drums even a whole day without problems then try to standup(1min) after every 1song you drum... in this way you can enjoy drumming a lot for years
Thanks
Welcome