Started drumming again after 15 years. Finding the comfortable AND correct positioning has been just as frustrating as relearning my skills. Subscribed. Thanks for the tips!
Thank you, thank you. I have been playing 30+ years and just started having knee pain. I made small adjustments in my throne height, but not much help. I raised it about 3 inches and backed up too and no pain so far!
I am 192cm (~6'3") and I struggled for years with too low drum setup. After watching your video I found out about heel up technique. I put a higher stool and immediately started making progress in drumming! Thank you for your videos.
Totally a tall, heel-up drummer so my throne is at max height at all times. That's mostly a style decision though, I prefer an aggressive bass sound so i bury the beater a lot. Having the throne all the way up makes it so that I dont have to work hard for powerful doubles since im just dropping my leg back to its starting point for the second note.
I’m actually 13 and 5’10 and feel more comfortable in heel up. But watching this showed me that sitting up higher really helped my playing in heel up. THANKS!
It depends on the kit too, though. I definitely sit a bit higher at my 26" bass drum set, than at any of my other 16" or 22" kick drum sets. I'm 6'3" and play heel up.
I have to say that you really outdid yourself in really explaining the press of sitting on the throne. 👏 👏 👏 I applaud you thank you for the insight well said
Many years ago when I was gigging five nights a week I bought a stool with a back rest and instantly improved my posture! No more slouching and back pain! Excellent video!Thanks
Actually true, I used to be a heel down player, but i thought it was wrong technique and started switching to heel up just knew both of them are accepted techniques.., Very helpful video, thank you.
I am having the worst time with the placement of every part of my kit. I added a couple toms and cymbals and everything seems either too far away, or on top of each other, where I hit the crash going for the hi hats, etc. One thing I DID have down was the throne. Until I moved the kits forward to fit those extra pieces! Somehow, that messed up the throne for me, too. 😭😭😭. Will try a couple of these ideas here to get it back to where I don’t feel like I’m sliding off.
Nice video as always. Just one little thing I want to mention. I am a real fan of timestamps. I would like to see them in your Videos to give them even more structure.
I have noticed in relation to heel-up/heel-down and distance from the pedals, that Steve Gadd in particular sits very low (in fact lower than he ever has in the past - probably a back/posture aging necessity) and sits so far back from his pedals that he could close his knees behind his snare drum. Yet he plays heel-up and down.... meaning his heel is resting down all the time but for every stroke he lifts his knee first and delivers the beater with his toe... then rests his heel on the floor. Interesting amount of work for every stroke. I play mostly heel-down... but tend to alternate between feet in attempt to stay anchored to the floor and balanced with one heel or the other. Great video! Thanks.
Generally speaking, I play heel down on both left and right foot, so I can sit pretty low. But when I need to play loud kick drum in a loud environment, I tend to raise the drum throne to allow for stomping the kick pedal without having to lift my knee above my waist all the time. :-)
I'm 5'11", play both heel up and heel down, and I sit almost as high as my throne will allow. Also, the old big band era drummers sat on tall canister thrones, and they all played heel down. The teacher who taught me heel up (my previous teachers played heel down), who has a monster bass drum foot, advised I sit lower to play heel up (I did it for a while, and it seemed to make it easier, but I forced myself to get good at it sitting higher). I do not believe there is any correllation between seat height and technique used. Also, seat height vs. inseam/hip-to-ankle/et al. would get you closer than seat height vs. standing height, as not everyone who is the same height has the same length legs.
At 6'2" and being a heel down player, I spent too many years sitting too low and fighting foot technique. I agree with your theory of short/tall heel up/down by observing other players. Great channel & awesome tips for all!
Excellent vid. These days at 58 years of age I find myself sitting over a foot back from the snare . I play heal down . I think heal down works better for soft playing too. This works great for soft playing at the Jazz gig.
That's funny because I'm the total opposite. I'm 6 ft tall and I started playing heel down. I didn't even know that people played heel up. But now I play both but mostly heel up.
@@johnrobinson8323 I'm 5' 10" at 69 Years old, (I lost 1.5 inches in height over the years ), and started playing in 1966 - Heel down. After over 50 years of not playing, I resurrected the playing in retirement for pleasure - No Gigs, unless one day I actually could join a Geriatric band. When I commenced playing again, in 2019 , I gravitated to Heel Down. I have a 1 inch shorter right leg (I described it in my comments to the VLOG), and with spinal issues in the lower back and Neck [caused by the shorter leg affecting my spine / hips], I have difficulties with achieving that Sweet Spot on a throne to be able to play the Bass drum to my satisfaction. I play along to MY Music : CCR, Petty, Stones, Mellencamp, Clapton, Cars, Talking Heads, Melissa E., Sheryl Crow, Beatles, Loggins and Messina, Linda Ronstadt , Eagles, etc....Happy Drumming
I started playing when I was 11, and was obviously shorter, so heel down. a few years later I found myself and my 3rd kit by then, heel up, been that was since and I am a few decades older than that now! Yep, you have as senior here!
I am a small drummer and had a drum teacher confront me about it in the second lesson or so and he made me Set the stool very low and very high so I can check what feels more natural to me before building a habit. So I am small and play heel down.
Good video, lots of interesting ideas to mull over. I'm an old (68) short guy (5'6") - I started drums at age 12 and did well until high school where I changed over to trombone in band but played kit in jazz & rock bands. Finished a degree in music while doing the same trombone/drum routine AND picked up electric bass. Ended up playing bass and singing for 45 years and retired when Covid shut down the clubs and restaurants (and every other performing venue). Now I'm getting back to my old '68 Ludwig set, refurbished the bearing edges, new hardware, cymbals and stands, tuned up the new heads: the drums sound great. I, however, sound like hammered dog crap - - - technique (like shooting and drumming) is a frangible skill - if you don't practice them - you will lose them. I'm having to relearn the skills that assisted me in all the other instruments. Your videos are nursing me back to percussion health - thank you and keep them coming. BTW, I am a heel down player trying to get comfy with heel up technique while trying to deal with my spasmodic independence.
6 foot. I play both heel up and down. Heel up when I need speed, and heel down when I want power. I use a Rock Soc throne, so I can quickly adjust up and down depending on what I am going to play.
Taller drummers usually have longer limps and by sitting lower they can still reach to every part on the kit without sticking them together. One good example is Scott Travis who seem to be around 6'6'' , his drum throne is set as low as it can go and still manage to play heel up. I think playing heel-up or heel-down has both physical and musical approach. A rock drummer needs that full leg force down to the beater while jazz drummer needs more control on dynamics. Yet, a heave legged drummer, despite the height. might find a higher sitting more comfortable, like Gene Hoglan who is 6'5'' yet he is sitting high. Leg weight, analogy of torso/leg, ape index and sometimes...stage fright might influence alot the drum throne height.
I would say the whole heel up and heel down depending on height is also based on the drummer themselves too. Most seasoned rock drummers would mainly play heel up because they want that power while seasoned jazz players mainly play heel down unless there are songs that do require power. But in terms of growing up and also me being about 5"6, I grew up playing heel up. There are also drummers that are taller than me who play the same genre as I do that also play heel up because of power and speed.
Stephen, good advice. I'm 5'10' and have relatively big / thick thighs. That has a bearing on your ratio theory. When I started playing in 1966 )with HS Buddies in a Garage Band , that never got out of the garage), I was strictly a heel down player. My Instructor neve went there to my recollection. I only took maybe 8-10 lessons. Now, I'm 69, and have become a Resurrected Player of the Drums ...... Retired from physical spinal disabilities in 2020. After just mentioning to my wife of 44 years, that "I may go to a studio to dabble with the Drums again".... She got me a Gammon Starter Kit for Xmas 2018. God Bless her. She even has stayed married to me - now 46 years with all the Noise. I don't really practice, but there was a Lot of Rust when I first began, albeit, I played "Air Drums" for most of my Life.... Its' in the BLOOD. I don't read Music - other than drum sheet music a little , but I play by Ear , always did even with the Garage Band. I don't play GIGS.. But only recreationally in my COVID created Finished Basement studio (new stereo equipment and of course the Drum kit). Sorry for the digression. I played Heel down from the beginning, and still do. The weird thing - probably from my physical make up and a 1" shorter right leg (Thank You HS Football in 1966 - fractured Femur), I can play Faster with my heel pounding up and down. I'm going to try to adopt your 29% ratio and change it accordingly. But, I just stumbled upon a Cannon Percussion Double Bass Drum Pedal. It has a traditional pedal for the 1 beater, and a Heel player that controls a second beater. That Could be the Right Answer for me. When I googled such an animal, it came up with a Dualist pedal. Impossible to find and not worth $$$$$ to me. Then, just the other day I found reference to a Cardinal DB pedal in a similar design to the Cannon. Out of Stock everywhere at $200. Guitar Center had a used Cannon DB pedal for $99 - jumped on it. I'll try to post after getting and using it. THX again for your information and sharing it to the Drumming world.
As a quick update. I did get the Cannon DB pedal, tried it, and returned it. The concept is terrific in order to play a DB pedal with one foot, however, I had difficulty with it. As noted in previous comment, My shorter right leg creates problems because of mis-balance position on a throne. I will continue to experiment with positions.
While i was in high school and learning Jazz drumming, my biggest influence was Buddy Rich who play heel up toe down like most big band drummers do. My other big influence John Bonham also play heel down toe up. When i first sat down to try it, heel up just felt more natural and comfortable then heel down. I only do heel down when i’m playing metso piano and quieter. Great video! Really helped me!
For me, I play heel up and heel down.. Heel up is for hitting the bass drum harder and heel down is playing softer almost like ghost notes, especially in church or something where you have to play softer. I'm also a double bass player, so when I use double bass on 150 BPM or do double bass burst I will use heel up.. but I'm also using the heel-toe and swivel technique for fast double bass that require both heel up and heel down.
I'm 6'4, played🥁 for over 35 years never had a lesson and I do my own thing heel up, heel down, no idea when my feet change they do it on there own and I'm comfortable. My right foot is my main foot and my left foot just randomly sometimes keeps time on the HH😂. Myself and my son use the same throne adjustable at the pull of the handle. 💚Tama 1st chair hydraulic cloth top. 👌💯. At the moment all I have to play on is my sons very small junior series kit so I've never felt so uncomfortable trying to play anything. Hope every one is well and hello from Australia 🇦🇺
People have different ratio of height/legs length. For example, my wife is a few inches shorter than I am but her legs are the exactly the same length. So these measures should be relative to the legs length rather than the person's height.
I play heel down on bass drum and heel up on hi-hat. My left foot on H.H. tends to "dance." My B.D. foot tends to stay a little more controlled. It all just evolved over time.
I've been playing since I was 9. I'm 6'5 and am a heal up guy. I found it to be the best was to play at a fast pace and to achieve more volume when needed
I only play heel down on soft ballad type songs, but I mostly play heel up for faster double bass. It's odd, 'cuz I am 6 ft. tall, and I not only sit a bit lower on my electronic kit, but I also on my 11 piece (1986) Ludwig Rocker (USA). I do sit a bit farther back, however, so maybe I sit lower even at 6ft 'cuz that's where I've been comfortable playing prog rock & thrash metal for years. I kinda learned that way in the early 80's, too, 'cause I 1st learned drums while leaning toward the mic singing lead vocals.
....either leaning over to sing at a gooseneck mic stand, but years later I finally got a headset mic. But my electronic Alesis kit is lower, & my acoustic Ludwig a bit higher (older deep toms = 8" 10" 12" 13" 14" 15" 16").
I'm 168cm (5'6"), play heel up and I sit more to the center of my throne with a straight back. My throne is 585mm (23") high and I sit close the kick pedals.
I never played the drums before but made the assumption you’re supposed to play heel down. Then I saw some video about heel up and tried it and it was way easier/more natural. I also play with beater buried. Am 6’
Leg length is likely more important that height. Leg length will determine your throne height (±heel up or heel down) and torso/arm length will determine distance from the kit
Really helpful video - many thanks! I’m 6’5” ( novice player) and I found that when I adjusted my angle to around 110 degrees I definitely wanted to play heal down more, also finding lower back issues creeping up again. When I started I was sitting lower and I could easily go between heal up or down with no issues and no back pain - who knows!
Thank you for Sharing...I'm 6'4" as well...and I tweek and tweek..but your advice about heel down vs heel up is awsome....but what if you want to gravitate between heel down & heel up...I'm guessing your answer might be...try and adjust..lol...keep up the great work! Happy Playing Stuart.
I've just started doing a bit of drumming again and couldn't adjust my cheap throne high enough. It was causing pain in my bass drum foot achilles behind the heel. It force me to play lifting it with my thigh (very tiring and unnatural) OR if lowerd, it tilts my foot up, constantly straining the achilles = after a bit of playing = pain. I've botched the stool a bit higher it instantly feels better.
So im 5'11 and i used to play heel down but i found i could keep time way better and get so much more power with heal up, obviously if the song requires a quieter play then ill play heel down so im not overpowering the feel of the song.. BUT when i play i do this thing when, if i need to hit the bass in quick succession, ill hit once heel up put my heel down and hit again and sorta like rock my foot from up and down and it helps with playing thise quick beats if i dont have a double kick around. But i was taught buy a pretty tall drummer 6'7 and he was the ine who told me to play heel up and he did too.
Good info on the hi-hat. I think I've been lacking more complete independence of the left leg hi-hat work due to not using heal up with the bounce to the tempo w/out unintentionally clapping or sizzeling the hats. I notice more directly that you and many others do something like this, and is opening another more direct door to that independence my limbs and expressions desire... Stubborn settings, hella-tight grip, and rigidity had been a problem for me for a while until more recently. Looking back, when I was a small 13yo, I would play a hesitant heal up. But as I aged and grew I think I didn't check and adjust much ever, and turned into a heal down. I am 5'8" and as I've come to enjoy more foot focus and double bass, I more recently worked back into heal up. You'd think after the variety I could do the heal toe technique smoothly, but I digress.... This video felt less directly applicable, and yet is still helpful with interest nonetheless ~ another way in how you work it for the the right motives, aims, and focus. Thanks again Captain Clark!
I'm new to the drums so I'm still kind of experimenting, but heel down is what I did without knowing anything, and you're like a foot taller than me. But I'm learning drums as an adult and my throne feels wobbly when it's high enough for heel up to not feel like a chore
I'm 6'3 and I play heel down for single pedal use and slower songs and heel up for faster songs and when I play on a double pedal or double kick drum setup.
I’m about 5’6-5’8” and I’ve always (out of ignorance of technique) adjusted my throne higher than it probably should have been and i just naturally started playing heel up. I’ve been trying to change that lately and lower the throne and learn heel down but it has been a difficult process. I’ve been playing for about 20 years and man I never realized how set in my ways mentally I was lol
I am short and had my first lesson as a kid, so I did play heel up. Now I am 5'7, which is still not that tall, but even I find that playing heel down is more comfortable and energy efficient in the long run. So I am trying to work on heel down playing. Interestingly enough, Benny Greb plays heel up and he looks tall to me, but maybe not as tall as you
one thing you forgot into throne comfort is gas vs spindle base, I find myself lose balance when the seat is not fixed becase the gas powered base rotates
Interesting.. Also apply the factor of (depending on when you start to learn) everyone's been sitting in the same sized chairs throughout the majority of their days (school and work). Folks with longer legs would undoubtably feel more comfortable heel down.
How 'bout if you play heel up for single double kick strokes, but use the heel-toe method for faster double double kick drumming? As in, frequently changing between heel up RLRL, to heel-toe RRLL, back and forth? 🤔 Is there a happy medium height?
I'm 180cm and found that setting my throne to roughly 58-59cm so around 33% of my height is the most optimal, my back is thanking me. The point to note is - SET IT TO BE COMFORTABLE AND RELAXED!! Everyone is different. I'm 180cm height but it's mostly in my legs while my torso is relatively shorter so my proportions are closer to a women's but with a longer limbs XD
the problem starts with the toms access at regular drum kits for me as a student i find it hard to find the best position for all the elements together so i wont lost my balance while playing...
I think the height theory has merit. I'm 5'4" which is obviously very short for a guy and I've never even attempted to play heel down. To do it comfortably I would have to lower the throne so much that the height of my toms would become an issue since they're already about as low as they can go without touching the bass drum. So heel up it is.
I just got my first set.. like, literally yesterday. I have only been behind the whole set completely tuned and assembled (that took forever) once so far. That was to adjust pedals, find the right placement of everything and get the stool in the best spot for me... and of course play around a little. Lol Those were my last steps in the entire process that I intentionally saved for last because I thought they were the least important and be done in less than a few minutes, as I'm sitting down to start practicing for real. I was so mfkn wrong..🤣 The very first thing I realized is how important how and where you're sitting is; way more than tuning ever could be, in hindsight. My shin was BURNING within 45 seconds!!!! LMAO
@@tiffanyrampy3219 I never imagined how important it was. I’ve been playing since 95 and I never considered stool height. As a teenager I would sit on whatever was around. Kitchen chair, piano stool, 2 milk crates stacked with a folded towel on top..
@@affordableplumber4206 I started using a pedal from Rock Band a few months ago to start getting a feel for it, and get my foot and legs towards shape to be able to play without hurting lol, while I practiced with my sticks and was sitting on the edge of the loveseat in the living room... that didn't help ANY of what I'd intended on it to help. Lmao! I'm pretty small, petite and short, buts I gots a big ass and it doesn't really fit too well on the stool that came with my kit. Lmfao.. any tips or suggestions on how to adjust it using household crap or whatever so it's more comfortable until I buy a better one; and do you have any opinion on a really good one I can buy that might be a little wider? But cheap? Lol I have lower back pain from an injury and sciatic nerve problems that all show up every once in a while and I do not want to aggravate any of that by sitting incorrectly or on something I shouldn't be. Any help on this, or any other good tips on drumming in general for a very beginning beginner from a long time player/pro, would be super helpful!! I will say that after I played around again last night, I honestly did surprise myself at how well I was able to keep time perfectly, was able to use my hands independently from my feet after a few minutes, and I actually sounded pretty damned good playing one of my favorite songs by one of my favorite bands, Chevelle, for it being the first time I really in truly tried to play. Lol are you on Facebook? We can talk better on there, if so.. if you wanna. 😉😊🥰
I'm 6'3 and play heel up most of the time. If I'm playing a song that I need to play softly on I play heel down. Usually if I play heel down I don't put as much power into my pedal.
I mainly play heel up but do play both depending on gig/dynamics/drums/. I tend to sit low but am almost 6’4. Trying to sit higher over time (for my back)but some things won’t go high enough that way 😜.
I just started - play guitar/bass but never drums. Thanks to covid I needed a new hobby so I thought I'd teach myself drums. I have short legs and without even thinking about it I played heel up. Playing heel down feels like I can't get as much control. Also, I have more respect for the drummers I've played with now!
I started playing at 11 heel down, and after ins and outs (never had a kit in my house), when it become serious (at 17) I started playing mostly heel up , and i'm 5'9".
I’m 5’2” and I’m a heel up player. I like sitting as low as I possibly can, cause I like putting power in my right foot that’s why I sit low but playing heel up. Kinda weird but I like it
I'm 6'2" heel up. But I'm coming back to drumming after about 8 years and feel like everything is off and wrong. I feel like I don't even know how to hold a stick anymore. My wrists and elbows hurt after playing. Am I too far away? Too close? Am I centered? Am I crooked? Is everything too high or too low? Seriously.... I feel crazy... and now nothing feels right or good, I've got knee pain from playing too 😑 Anyway, thanks for the video even if I'm finding it super late. 👌🏼
Steven, I’m a powerlifting coach and see the long femur and short femur makes all the difference in the squat. I am a long femur type and lean way back with my peddle work. Do you think higher stool make more sense? I have always been a heal up player.
I think it depends what your music influences are. People that are coming from jazz influences will probably gravitate towards heel down, whereas someone coming from heavy metal would gravitate towards heel up.
Started drumming again after 15 years. Finding the comfortable AND correct positioning has been just as frustrating as relearning my skills. Subscribed. Thanks for the tips!
I actually find myself playing heel up on faster songs and heel down on slow songs. It's just something that I do unconsciously
Samee
I feel like you guys would be getting weak hits though on those fast song
Sorry I read the comment wrong I thought you said the other way around, I agree
Then you actually flat foot at medium tempos 😂
I got fired from a gig once for playing unconsciously. :)
Thank you, thank you. I have been playing 30+ years and just started having knee pain. I made small adjustments in my throne height, but not much help. I raised it about 3 inches and backed up too and no pain so far!
I am 192cm (~6'3") and I struggled for years with too low drum setup. After watching your video I found out about heel up technique. I put a higher stool and immediately started making progress in drumming! Thank you for your videos.
Totally a tall, heel-up drummer so my throne is at max height at all times. That's mostly a style decision though, I prefer an aggressive bass sound so i bury the beater a lot. Having the throne all the way up makes it so that I dont have to work hard for powerful doubles since im just dropping my leg back to its starting point for the second note.
I’m actually 13 and 5’10 and feel more comfortable in heel up. But watching this showed me that sitting up higher really helped my playing in heel up. THANKS!
It depends on the kit too, though.
I definitely sit a bit higher at my 26" bass drum set, than at any of my other 16" or 22" kick drum sets. I'm 6'3" and play heel up.
I have to say that you really outdid yourself in really explaining the press of sitting on the throne. 👏 👏 👏 I applaud you thank you for the insight well said
Many years ago when I was gigging five nights a week I bought a stool with a back rest and instantly improved my posture! No more slouching and back pain! Excellent video!Thanks
I was literally saying to myself. After six months back at it. I just can’t get it right. Good timing!! Thank you
Same! Lol
Actually true, I used to be a heel down player, but i thought it was wrong technique and started switching to heel up just knew both of them are accepted techniques..,
Very helpful video, thank you.
I am having the worst time with the placement of every part of my kit. I added a couple toms and cymbals and everything seems either too far away, or on top of each other, where I hit the crash going for the hi hats, etc. One thing I DID have down was the throne. Until I moved the kits forward to fit those extra pieces! Somehow, that messed up the throne for me, too. 😭😭😭. Will try a couple of these ideas here to get it back to where I don’t feel like I’m sliding off.
Nice video as always. Just one little thing I want to mention. I am a real fan of timestamps. I would like to see them in your Videos to give them even more structure.
I have noticed in relation to heel-up/heel-down and distance from the pedals, that Steve Gadd in particular sits very low (in fact lower than he ever has in the past - probably a back/posture aging necessity) and sits so far back from his pedals that he could close his knees behind his snare drum. Yet he plays heel-up and down.... meaning his heel is resting down all the time but for every stroke he lifts his knee first and delivers the beater with his toe... then rests his heel on the floor. Interesting amount of work for every stroke. I play mostly heel-down... but tend to alternate between feet in attempt to stay anchored to the floor and balanced with one heel or the other. Great video! Thanks.
Generally speaking, I play heel down on both left and right foot, so I can sit pretty low. But when I need to play loud kick drum in a loud environment, I tend to raise the drum throne to allow for stomping the kick pedal without having to lift my knee above my waist all the time. :-)
I'm 5'11", play both heel up and heel down, and I sit almost as high as my throne will allow. Also, the old big band era drummers sat on tall canister thrones, and they all played heel down. The teacher who taught me heel up (my previous teachers played heel down), who has a monster bass drum foot, advised I sit lower to play heel up (I did it for a while, and it seemed to make it easier, but I forced myself to get good at it sitting higher). I do not believe there is any correllation between seat height and technique used.
Also, seat height vs. inseam/hip-to-ankle/et al. would get you closer than seat height vs. standing height, as not everyone who is the same height has the same length legs.
At 6'2" and being a heel down player, I spent too many years sitting too low and fighting foot technique.
I agree with your theory of short/tall heel up/down by observing other players.
Great channel & awesome tips for all!
Excellent vid. These days at 58 years of age I find myself sitting over a foot back from the snare . I play heal down . I think heal down works better for soft playing too. This works great for soft playing at the Jazz gig.
I’m 12 years old, 5 foot 8, been playing for 2 years, and use heel up technique. Love your videos!
Everyone here: 6ish feet tall
Me: cries in 5’0 🥲
I'm 6'7" and play heel up. I did not find out about heel down technique until way later in life.
That's funny because I'm the total opposite. I'm 6 ft tall and I started playing heel down. I didn't even know that people played heel up. But now I play both but mostly heel up.
@@johnrobinson8323 I'm 5' 10" at 69 Years old, (I lost 1.5 inches in height over the years ), and started playing in 1966 - Heel down. After over 50 years of not playing, I resurrected the playing in retirement for pleasure - No Gigs, unless one day I actually could join a Geriatric band. When I commenced playing again, in 2019 , I gravitated to Heel Down. I have a 1 inch shorter right leg (I described it in my comments to the VLOG), and with spinal issues in the lower back and Neck [caused by the shorter leg affecting my spine / hips], I have difficulties with achieving that Sweet Spot on a throne to be able to play the Bass drum to my satisfaction. I play along to MY Music : CCR, Petty, Stones, Mellencamp, Clapton, Cars, Talking Heads, Melissa E., Sheryl Crow, Beatles, Loggins and Messina, Linda Ronstadt , Eagles, etc....Happy Drumming
I started playing when I was 11, and was obviously shorter, so heel down. a few years later I found myself and my 3rd kit by then, heel up, been that was since and I am a few decades older than that now! Yep, you have as senior here!
I am a small drummer and had a drum teacher confront me about it in the second lesson or so and he made me Set the stool very low and very high so I can check what feels more natural to me before building a habit. So I am small and play heel down.
Your channel has helped me in playing the drums. Thank you for the tips you gave, keep going with the videos.
I’m 13 and only 5 foot tall and I have played heel up for 6 years. It gives more ease of setup for me for positioning rack toms above a 22 inch kick
Good video, lots of interesting ideas to mull over. I'm an old (68) short guy (5'6") - I started drums at age 12 and did well until high school where I changed over to trombone in band but played kit in jazz & rock bands. Finished a degree in music while doing the same trombone/drum routine AND picked up electric bass. Ended up playing bass and singing for 45 years and retired when Covid shut down the clubs and restaurants (and every other performing venue). Now I'm getting back to my old '68 Ludwig set, refurbished the bearing edges, new hardware, cymbals and stands, tuned up the new heads: the drums sound great. I, however, sound like hammered dog crap - - - technique (like shooting and drumming) is a frangible skill - if you don't practice them - you will lose them. I'm having to relearn the skills that assisted me in all the other instruments. Your videos are nursing me back to percussion health - thank you and keep them coming. BTW, I am a heel down player trying to get comfy with heel up technique while trying to deal with my spasmodic independence.
Love your channel man. I Drive my self crasy adjusting my throne so this helps alot!! Thanks!!
Great video, very professional and on point!! Thanks bro, Subscribed!!!!
6 foot. I play both heel up and down. Heel up when I need speed, and heel down when I want power. I use a Rock Soc throne, so I can quickly adjust up and down depending on what I am going to play.
Hi.
What if you still haven't developed a preference of heel up, or heel down.
🤔 come to think about it, I don't think I have really analisysed this!
Taller drummers usually have longer limps and by sitting lower they can still reach to every part on the kit without sticking them together. One good example is Scott Travis who seem to be around 6'6'' , his drum throne is set as low as it can go and still manage to play heel up.
I think playing heel-up or heel-down has both physical and musical approach. A rock drummer needs that full leg force down to the beater while jazz drummer needs more control on dynamics. Yet, a heave legged drummer, despite the height. might find a higher sitting more comfortable, like Gene Hoglan who is 6'5'' yet he is sitting high. Leg weight, analogy of torso/leg, ape index and sometimes...stage fright might influence alot the drum throne height.
Once I bought a Roc & Soc my back and butt said Thank You!
I would say the whole heel up and heel down depending on height is also based on the drummer themselves too. Most seasoned rock drummers would mainly play heel up because they want that power while seasoned jazz players mainly play heel down unless there are songs that do require power. But in terms of growing up and also me being about 5"6, I grew up playing heel up. There are also drummers that are taller than me who play the same genre as I do that also play heel up because of power and speed.
I'm 6'1" (1.86m) and I play heel up and barefoot. Great video very helpful!
5' 6" and heel down. I do mix it up sometimes
Stephen, good advice. I'm 5'10' and have relatively big / thick thighs. That has a bearing on your ratio theory. When I started playing in 1966 )with HS Buddies in a Garage Band , that never got out of the garage), I was strictly a heel down player. My Instructor neve went there to my recollection. I only took maybe 8-10 lessons. Now, I'm 69, and have become a Resurrected Player of the Drums ...... Retired from physical spinal disabilities in 2020. After just mentioning to my wife of 44 years, that "I may go to a studio to dabble with the Drums again".... She got me a Gammon Starter Kit for Xmas 2018. God Bless her. She even has stayed married to me - now 46 years with all the Noise. I don't really practice, but there was a Lot of Rust when I first began, albeit, I played "Air Drums" for most of my Life.... Its' in the BLOOD. I don't read Music - other than drum sheet music a little , but I play by Ear , always did even with the Garage Band. I don't play GIGS.. But only recreationally in my COVID created Finished Basement studio (new stereo equipment and of course the Drum kit). Sorry for the digression. I played Heel down from the beginning, and still do. The weird thing - probably from my physical make up and a 1" shorter right leg (Thank You HS Football in 1966 - fractured Femur), I can play Faster with my heel pounding up and down. I'm going to try to adopt your 29% ratio and change it accordingly. But, I just stumbled upon a Cannon Percussion Double Bass Drum Pedal. It has a traditional pedal for the 1 beater, and a Heel player that controls a second beater. That Could be the Right Answer for me. When I googled such an animal, it came up with a Dualist pedal. Impossible to find and not worth $$$$$ to me. Then, just the other day I found reference to a Cardinal DB pedal in a similar design to the Cannon. Out of Stock everywhere at $200. Guitar Center had a used Cannon DB pedal for $99 - jumped on it. I'll try to post after getting and using it. THX again for your information and sharing it to the Drumming world.
As a quick update. I did get the Cannon DB pedal, tried it, and returned it. The concept is terrific in order to play a DB pedal with one foot, however, I had difficulty with it. As noted in previous comment, My shorter right leg creates problems because of mis-balance position on a throne. I will continue to experiment with positions.
While i was in high school and learning Jazz drumming, my biggest influence was Buddy Rich who play heel up toe down like most big band drummers do. My other big influence John Bonham also play heel down toe up. When i first sat down to try it, heel up just felt more natural and comfortable then heel down. I only do heel down when i’m playing metso piano and quieter.
Great video! Really helped me!
For me, I play heel up and heel down.. Heel up is for hitting the bass drum harder and heel down is playing softer almost like ghost notes, especially in church or something where you have to play softer. I'm also a double bass player, so when I use double bass on 150 BPM or do double bass burst I will use heel up.. but I'm also using the heel-toe and swivel technique for fast double bass that require both heel up and heel down.
I'm 6'4, played🥁 for over 35 years never had a lesson and I do my own thing heel up, heel down, no idea when my feet change they do it on there own and I'm comfortable. My right foot is my main foot and my left foot just randomly sometimes keeps time on the HH😂. Myself and my son use the same throne adjustable at the pull of the handle. 💚Tama 1st chair hydraulic cloth top. 👌💯.
At the moment all I have to play on is my sons very small junior series kit so I've never felt so uncomfortable trying to play anything.
Hope every one is well and hello from Australia 🇦🇺
I’m about 6.2,6.4 and I’ve always sit low on kits. I just adjust my throne height to where my back is straight and knees are on 90 degrees.
People have different ratio of height/legs length. For example, my wife is a few inches shorter than I am but her legs are the exactly the same length. So these measures should be relative to the legs length rather than the person's height.
I play heel down on bass drum and heel up on hi-hat. My left foot on H.H. tends to "dance." My B.D. foot tends to stay a little more controlled. It all just evolved over time.
Makes sense. I will improve it today. thank you for this!
I've been playing since I was 9. I'm 6'5 and am a heal up guy. I found it to be the best was to play at a fast pace and to achieve more volume when needed
I am 6.2” and have always played heel up, with beater buried!!! I know I know not good lol
Great videos!!!!
continue to love your thoughtful, helpful lessons
Always wondered about this 🤔
I only play heel down on soft ballad type songs, but I mostly play heel up for faster double bass. It's odd, 'cuz I am 6 ft. tall, and I not only sit a bit lower on my electronic kit, but I also on my 11 piece (1986) Ludwig Rocker (USA). I do sit a bit farther back, however, so maybe I sit lower even at 6ft 'cuz that's where I've been comfortable playing prog rock & thrash metal for years. I kinda learned that way in the early 80's, too, 'cause I 1st learned drums while leaning toward the mic singing lead vocals.
....either leaning over to sing at a gooseneck mic stand, but years later I finally got a headset mic.
But my electronic Alesis kit is lower, & my acoustic Ludwig a bit higher (older deep toms = 8" 10" 12" 13" 14" 15" 16").
I'm 168cm (5'6"), play heel up and I sit more to the center of my throne with a straight back. My throne is 585mm (23") high and I sit close the kick pedals.
I never played the drums before but made the assumption you’re supposed to play heel down. Then I saw some video about heel up and tried it and it was way easier/more natural. I also play with beater buried. Am 6’
I'm 5'8 and interested to see when my kit gets here how I'll prefer to use the kick. Thanks for the upload, very informative.
Leg length is likely more important that height. Leg length will determine your throne height (±heel up or heel down) and torso/arm length will determine distance from the kit
5'10" and I like heel up. Jamie Saint Merat is my favorite drummer. Never heard of him. You gotta check him out. Great video!
Really helpful video - many thanks!
I’m 6’5” ( novice player) and I found that when I adjusted my angle to around 110 degrees I definitely wanted to play heal down more, also finding lower back issues creeping up again. When I started I was sitting lower and I could easily go between heal up or down with no issues and no back pain - who knows!
Thank you for Sharing...I'm 6'4" as well...and I tweek and tweek..but your advice about heel down vs heel up is awsome....but what if you want to gravitate between heel down & heel up...I'm guessing your answer might be...try and adjust..lol...keep up the great work!
Happy Playing
Stuart.
I'm 5'2" but prefer heel-down because it gives me better control of the pedal and doesn't fatigue my lower back.
I've just started doing a bit of drumming again and couldn't adjust my cheap throne high enough. It was causing pain in my bass drum foot achilles behind the heel. It force me to play lifting it with my thigh (very tiring and unnatural) OR if lowerd, it tilts my foot up, constantly straining the achilles = after a bit of playing = pain.
I've botched the stool a bit higher it instantly feels better.
So im 5'11 and i used to play heel down but i found i could keep time way better and get so much more power with heal up, obviously if the song requires a quieter play then ill play heel down so im not overpowering the feel of the song.. BUT when i play i do this thing when, if i need to hit the bass in quick succession, ill hit once heel up put my heel down and hit again and sorta like rock my foot from up and down and it helps with playing thise quick beats if i dont have a double kick around. But i was taught buy a pretty tall drummer 6'7 and he was the ine who told me to play heel up and he did too.
Totally agree. Nice video. I’m 6’ 5” and play heel down.
Good info on the hi-hat. I think I've been lacking more complete independence of the left leg hi-hat work due to not using heal up with the bounce to the tempo w/out unintentionally clapping or sizzeling the hats. I notice more directly that you and many others do something like this, and is opening another more direct door to that independence my limbs and expressions desire...
Stubborn settings, hella-tight grip, and rigidity had been a problem for me for a while until more recently. Looking back, when I was a small 13yo, I would play a hesitant heal up. But as I aged and grew I think I didn't check and adjust much ever, and turned into a heal down. I am 5'8" and as I've come to enjoy more foot focus and double bass, I more recently worked back into heal up. You'd think after the variety I could do the heal toe technique smoothly, but I digress....
This video felt less directly applicable, and yet is still helpful with interest nonetheless ~ another way in how you work it for the the right motives, aims, and focus.
Thanks again Captain Clark!
I have a littlebit duckfoot left foot so it's just like made for hihat pedal.
I'm new to the drums so I'm still kind of experimenting, but heel down is what I did without knowing anything, and you're like a foot taller than me. But I'm learning drums as an adult and my throne feels wobbly when it's high enough for heel up to not feel like a chore
I'm 6'3 and I play heel down for single pedal use and slower songs and heel up for faster songs and when I play on a double pedal or double kick drum setup.
I’m about 5’6-5’8” and I’ve always (out of ignorance of technique) adjusted my throne higher than it probably should have been and i just naturally started playing heel up. I’ve been trying to change that lately and lower the throne and learn heel down but it has been a difficult process. I’ve been playing for about 20 years and man I never realized how set in my ways mentally I was lol
I am short and had my first lesson as a kid, so I did play heel up. Now I am 5'7, which is still not that tall, but even I find that playing heel down is more comfortable and energy efficient in the long run. So I am trying to work on heel down playing. Interestingly enough, Benny Greb plays heel up and he looks tall to me, but maybe not as tall as you
Mrs.Stephen Clark I'm 6.0 of hight I utilize both heel up & down. I set my drum throne at medium length and higher length.
I already know ima like this video
one thing you forgot into throne comfort is gas vs spindle base, I find myself lose balance when the seat is not fixed becase the gas powered base rotates
Maan, such a great explanation, this really helped me to understand , much thanks 😊
6 ft 1 in and playing heel up!
Interesting.. Also apply the factor of (depending on when you start to learn) everyone's been sitting in the same sized chairs throughout the majority of their days (school and work). Folks with longer legs would undoubtably feel more comfortable heel down.
I'm 5'8" and heel-up playing feels better. Also feels more effective for double-bass playing.
How 'bout if you play heel up for single double kick strokes, but use the heel-toe method for faster double double kick drumming? As in, frequently changing between heel up RLRL, to heel-toe RRLL, back and forth? 🤔
Is there a happy medium height?
6' I play both. I prefer the control and balance of heal down these days but If I'm going for power heal up all day
I'm 6'2" and I've always played heel up. The only time I play heel down is certain practice routines. But never when I play with the band.
I'm 180cm and found that setting my throne to roughly 58-59cm so around 33% of my height is the most optimal, my back is thanking me. The point to note is - SET IT TO BE COMFORTABLE AND RELAXED!! Everyone is different. I'm 180cm height but it's mostly in my legs while my torso is relatively shorter so my proportions are closer to a women's but with a longer limbs XD
very good lesson thank you so lot!
the problem starts with the toms access at regular drum kits for me as a student i find it hard to find the best position for all the elements together so i wont lost my balance while playing...
I think the height theory has merit. I'm 5'4" which is obviously very short for a guy and I've never even attempted to play heel down. To do it comfortably I would have to lower the throne so much that the height of my toms would become an issue since they're already about as low as they can go without touching the bass drum. So heel up it is.
After watching this video, stool height is everything. I mean everything. I’ll stop screwing with pedal adjustments now
I just got my first set.. like, literally yesterday. I have only been behind the whole set completely tuned and assembled (that took forever) once so far. That was to adjust pedals, find the right placement of everything and get the stool in the best spot for me... and of course play around a little. Lol Those were my last steps in the entire process that I intentionally saved for last because I thought they were the least important and be done in less than a few minutes, as I'm sitting down to start practicing for real. I was so mfkn wrong..🤣 The very first thing I realized is how important how and where you're sitting is; way more than tuning ever could be, in hindsight. My shin was BURNING within 45 seconds!!!! LMAO
@@tiffanyrampy3219 I never imagined how important it was. I’ve been playing since 95 and I never considered stool height. As a teenager I would sit on whatever was around. Kitchen chair, piano stool, 2 milk crates stacked with a folded towel on top..
@@affordableplumber4206 I started using a pedal from Rock Band a few months ago to start getting a feel for it, and get my foot and legs towards shape to be able to play without hurting lol, while I practiced with my sticks and was sitting on the edge of the loveseat in the living room... that didn't help ANY of what I'd intended on it to help. Lmao! I'm pretty small, petite and short, buts I gots a big ass and it doesn't really fit too well on the stool that came with my kit. Lmfao.. any tips or suggestions on how to adjust it using household crap or whatever so it's more comfortable until I buy a better one; and do you have any opinion on a really good one I can buy that might be a little wider? But cheap? Lol I have lower back pain from an injury and sciatic nerve problems that all show up every once in a while and I do not want to aggravate any of that by sitting incorrectly or on something I shouldn't be. Any help on this, or any other good tips on drumming in general for a very beginning beginner from a long time player/pro, would be super helpful!! I will say that after I played around again last night, I honestly did surprise myself at how well I was able to keep time perfectly, was able to use my hands independently from my feet after a few minutes, and I actually sounded pretty damned good playing one of my favorite songs by one of my favorite bands, Chevelle, for it being the first time I really in truly tried to play. Lol are you on Facebook? We can talk better on there, if so.. if you wanna. 😉😊🥰
@@tiffanyrampy3219 don’t have fb. Do have Snapchat and reddit
I love your videos man!!! Bank you for your hard work and awesome tips and lessons and advice!!!
I'm 6'3 and play heel up most of the time. If I'm playing a song that I need to play softly on I play heel down. Usually if I play heel down I don't put as much power into my pedal.
I mainly play heel up but do play both depending on gig/dynamics/drums/. I tend to sit low but am almost 6’4. Trying to sit higher over time (for my back)but some things won’t go high enough that way 😜.
Makes total sense.
Super helpful. Thank you!
5'8" and heel down. Started drumming at 13 with heel down.
I feel like you find the right height after playing a few years and moving it around in all areas....
I’m 5’5” I need to play heal up. But using my big toe more I found a lot more control and speed.
This guy is good i play heal down i was told when i took lessons that heal up can cause problems i dont know thats what i was told years ago thanks
6'4" here; I've always been heel up. Loud or soft, I can only play heel up, and I've never been able to feel like I have any control playing heel down
I have a motorcycle style throne and it is fairly soft and _very_ comfortable; never had any issues with pain anywhere
I just started - play guitar/bass but never drums. Thanks to covid I needed a new hobby so I thought I'd teach myself drums. I have short legs and without even thinking about it I played heel up. Playing heel down feels like I can't get as much control. Also, I have more respect for the drummers I've played with now!
You may be "non-glamorous", but you're wise. PTL for that! Good wisdom and advice here, thanks for a great video.
I started playing at 11 heel down, and after ins and outs (never had a kit in my house), when it become serious (at 17) I started playing mostly heel up , and i'm 5'9".
Style desicion maybe but also I'm much comfortable sitting up
I’m 5’2” and I’m a heel up player. I like sitting as low as I possibly can, cause I like putting power in my right foot that’s why I sit low but playing heel up. Kinda weird but I like it
I find just slightly above 90°. That gives you both angles for heel up and down.
Can you please tell me what is the difference between a throne and a stool, some online stores use these concepts and they sound different.
Im 6ft tall. 72 inches even. I play heel up and sit close. My stool is at about 22 inches. I want it to be higher but its maxed out.
I'm 6'2" heel up. But I'm coming back to drumming after about 8 years and feel like everything is off and wrong. I feel like I don't even know how to hold a stick anymore. My wrists and elbows hurt after playing. Am I too far away? Too close? Am I centered? Am I crooked? Is everything too high or too low? Seriously.... I feel crazy... and now nothing feels right or good, I've got knee pain from playing too 😑 Anyway, thanks for the video even if I'm finding it super late. 👌🏼
Steven, I’m a powerlifting coach and see the long femur and short femur makes all the difference in the squat. I am a long femur type and lean way back with my peddle work. Do you think higher stool make more sense? I have always been a heal up player.
I think it depends what your music influences are. People that are coming from jazz influences will probably gravitate towards heel down, whereas someone coming from heavy metal would gravitate towards heel up.