Y'all need to watch Rick Worley's documentary on the Prequels - absolutely fantastic. You'll realise the films are quite literally flawless, perfect in every facet of filmmaking and cinema, and conclusively, masterful.
I've always enjoyed them too, and I do think the hate for them back then has been a bit overexaggerated. And that's due in large part to most critics and those in the media also not liking them (back then) and thus controlling the narrative and pushing the idea they were largely hated. Just like they try to push the narrative today that it's only vocal minority who hate the sequels. That said, there's still no denying there were plenty of fans who did not like them back in the day.
I was born in 1995. For my entire life stars wars was always defaulted to prequel content for me and my peers. I can understand thinking that the sequels may have a prequel type of reception years from now but I think a huge reason for the prequels mainstream appeal was its dominance in all Star Wars material for a large time frame. The prequels had multiple supplementary books, TV shows, and video games. You didn’t have to be a prequel movie fan to enjoy the prequel era. Sequels were very lacking in non movie content. Also once the phantom menace came out in 1999, there was almost no official mention of the original trilogy. Immediately after the sequels wrapped up we gotta prequel and OT content. The prequel simply was star wars from 1999 to 2015. The sequels just came and went like a faint dream.
I always loved the prequel trilogy despite the clunky dialogue. At least they had heart and soul into the trilogy and awesome world building. they'll always be remembered. The Sequel trilogy on the other hand is forgettable. No plan, no characters arcs, no story, none of that. They had every opportunity to make that trilogy as good as Episode's 1-6, and they failed completely and utterly.
The dialogue isn't clunky, it's so obviously influenced and inspired by the dialogue of the 1940s and 1950s which emphasises the romantic, tragic genre, themes and tones of the Prequels. On top of that, the dialogue is operatic, akin to that of a Shakespearen play. This isn't clunky dialogue, it's not bad, it just comes from a taste many people don't share with Lucas because they don't understand it, which is exactly what Lucas predicted. Ultimately, people hated the dialogue of the Prequels because they hadn't watched a film before 1970 before lmao.
TOY SALES: The greatest barometer of how kids engage with SW. PT sales were insane! The SW section took up most of an isle. ST toys (I've only seen action figures) sat on shelves and then lingered in clearance. Mandolorian, Characters from the 1-6 movie and Mandolorian, plus lightsabers, and clone wars action figures are the one toys I ever see in a now tiny SW section.
how many kids nowadays play with toys tho as someone in the actual generation/ slightly older I very rarely played with toys besides mostly lego from what i can tell its mostly just video games
I don't think the sequels will expierience a similar resurgence. The prequels had some cringy characters and Bad dialogue, yes, but the overall story was good and overall logical. And the story is usually what people remember when they think of a movie after a while whereas action and dialogue are nice in the moment you watch but don't really matter afterwards. I honestly don't even remember most of the bad dialogue lines from the prequels (other than the memes). But with the sequels the biggest problem is the overall story. And that's what all future content will have to align with. A new series can't better the sequels like CW did for the prequels because things don't need to be fleshed out more, they didn't make any sense at all.
You didn't even mention the best part: the prequels had exceptional world building. They didn't really have any "member berries." Lucas created a whole new side of the galaxy from scratch and gave the EU writers tons to work with. The sequels and even Mandalorian have been terrible at this. They've introduced so little to the world because they all rehash old Star Wars content without creating new ideas
The problem with the stuff that today's people think later generations will warm up to (like Disney's Strangeworld or the Sequels) is that unlike the previous Underestimated Stuff That Got Cult Followings (e.g. Atlantis the Lost Empire, Treasure Planet, Titan A.E., etc.) there's not much "grandness in storytelling", for lack of a better word, contained in them. It's very evident that they were made with the wrong intentions in mind whereas the old underestimated had passions in just the right place.
The Prequel Trilogy had memes going for it. There's a whole compilation of "this movie, but only the memes". What do the sequels have? The "Rey who" meme? The "Kylo Ren kills Han Solo" meme? People are talking in Palpatine memes to this day, I don't think the Sequels have much of a potential in that regard.
Exactly. A decade from now there will still be people making video essays and writing books and teaching film school classes on why Star Wars was great and the long-term impact on cinema of movies like Star Wars. People making videos or book and such about Disney's sequel trilogy will all be "lessons in how to destroy a multi-million dollar franchise" and "why JJ Abram's empty 'Mystery Box' storytelling FAILS". What fans "grew up with the Sequel Trilogy"? So far as I can tell, the "fans" of the sequel trilogy are Reylo shippers (and they're not kids) and the "if you don't like them, you're an ist-a-phobe!" political crowd (who, as childish as they are, aren't kids either). And ten years from now, no one is going to care about their opinions on anything.
The simple truth is that the complaints about the PT were largely production issues, while the complaints against the ST are narrative issues. The PT did a wonky job telling a great story. The ST did a wonky job telling a horrible story. The Clones Wars show helped smooth over the shortcomings of the PT by doing a good job telling its story within the PT timeframe. This is something you can't do with the ST because it's shortcomings are the story itself.
Or as I've put it, the PT is like a a cake where the decoration is a bit of a mess, but once you bite into it, it's pretty damn good; the ST are a cake that is masterfully decorated...but when you cut into it, it turns out to be a hollow shell of frosting with NOTHING inside!
Super goddamn true Prequels have an awesome story told poorly (at least the first two, RotS is genuinelly great in every way) Sequels have a shitty story told poorly, the only positive thing i can say about them is that the practical and cgi effects are great and they might age better than the prequels effects.
Honestly, I think the prequels are just great movies that tell their story in the best way possible. Attack of the Clones is the weakest Star Wars movie, but with the amount of baggage it has to carry, I don't think I could've told the story better any other way. The Clone Wars more adds to the trilogy than fixes it.
Great point, the PT also had a lot of good media tie ins to help flesh it out, video games, books, shows, comics etc. whereas the ST just didn’t feel the same way.
I think the non-movie media had a lot to do with the Prequels lasting and growing popularity. The Clone Wars show and the many, many games kept the interest from fading. The Sequels had one series that didn't seem very popular and Lego games. The movies seem to just pick up right after each other leaving little room for side stories and something like the Clone Wars.
I agree but that's not only it. Prequels were not hated by most, there was prequel hate but more a loud minority. Prequels were criticized mostly fairly but even that's wasn't normally hate.
I liked the prequels when they came out. What I hate the sequels for (apart from being bad movies) is that they were rehashing the OT in a way that came across an excuse for the prequels being so different. Basically, the sequels embraced the prequel hate and pretended they didn‘t exist. Other mistakes were made… sequel rewatch value for me is absolutely zero. I still go back to the prequels from time to time, so much good stuff in there.
there is also the fact that the conflict is reignited in a way that undoes the OT. everything the heroes have done is for naught, and the sequels arguably end up worse off than the OT did. basically, if you want a happy ending, you are better off just removing the sequels from your mind. the prequels at least had the excuse of being prequels, and so HAD to end on a bleak note. when you finish watching ROTS, you could take solace in remembering how it all ends. TROS just makes the ending of ROTJ look bittersweet in hindsight
@@Underworlder5 And the Sequels go so far in trying to avoid the prequels complaints they go too far. The compliant about politics which ignoring that a story about the fall of one government and the rise of another is going to require politics to some degree is that they were also used in the OT because they were required to understand the scale and importance of events. The first film alone had a key plot point was that the Empire had finally disbanded the Senate and thus removed the last traces of the Old Republic in their regime. This scene is necessary for understanding how far the Empire has fallen compared to the Old Republic and what the Rebels are fighting for. The lack of politics in the Sequels means that the war seems like a gang conflict that isn't changing anything.
The sequel trilogy will not see a resurgence in popularity because the generation of kids they were targeting largely preferred the Marvel movies. That’s honestly why some of the Phase 1 movies are now being re-evaluated as better movies now. The Sequel trilogy didn’t fulfill the previous generations of fans, and they weren’t good enough on their own to bring in the new fans. I showed all of the movies to my younger siblings and they also gravitated towards the original six movies
The problem with the stuff that today's people think later generations will warm up to (like Disney's Strangeworld or the Sequels) is that unlike the previous Underestimated Stuff That Got Cult Followings (e.g. Atlantis the Lost Empire, Treasure Planet, Titan A.E., etc.) there's not much "grandness in storytelling", for lack of a better word, contained in them. It's very evident that they were made with the wrong intentions in mind whereas the old underestimated had passions in just the right place.
I think it also needs to be said that a lot of re-examining and appreciating the prequels, let's call it a resurgence, came from the fact that they looked great compared to the sequels.
@@ellugerdelacruz2555 There are probably many more examples of things people thought would be more appreciated over time that are forgotten or seen as total abominations today. Tons of projects that were clearly purely to cash in on something else, stuff like “Sit Down, Shut Up”.
I think the prequels have found new popularity due to two main things: 1. The clone wars TV show fleshed out the events of the prequels in much greater depth than any single trilogy ever could, and 2. The events of the prequels actually have some relation to the original trilogy beyond just including the same characters. Even if the sequels got their own clone wars, I don't think it would make them any more popular, because they're so disconnected from the other movies and have so little to add to the universe.
I doubt it. Clone wars was way more accessible than EU games, comics or novels, seeing as it was always airing on a widely available cartoon channel, and also ran for 6 years. Its accessibility and longevity helped it impact a lot of young people, including myself.
I love the Prequels and I hate TCW, stop this argument. TCW is not compatible with the movies in many respects, and Filoni hasn't been criticized until the Ahsoka series. Parts of the fandom have long had an opinion about him no different than that of Abrams, Johnson or Headland. It is naive to think that every Prequel fan has watched the 7-season cartoon.
My dad and I watched Attack of the Clones recently because I wanted him to watch Clone Wars. I could swear he brought me to each one of the prequels when they came out, but he said he couldn't remember the movie at all. He actually really got into it and was talking about how much he liked it. I thought it was funny because it was the least liked one of the three.
I think a lot of fans were disappointed by TPM; I know I was. But overall the dislike of the PT was overblown and by the time ROTS came out the fandom was a lot more accepting of the PT even though I think the consensus was that the OT was definitely better. The anger the ST has caused is far greater and will last longer, particularly if Disney tries to "fix" it in their forthcoming shows. It won't be tolerated like the PT haters have learned to do.
If I understand correctly the problem of the PM was that the movie was totally different from the originals and people expected something else? I became a star wars fan in 2005 when Revenge came out and wached all star wars movies at the same time. Really liked Prequels and they are still my favourite star wars content by far, I can see flaws in them but I still love them. Funny thing is that I didn't like original trilogy as a kid. It just felted to old or something compared to Prequels. For the sequels... Force awakens is probably the biggest disappointment of all movies I wached.
Hey Thor, I've heard some people say that Ahsoka Tano deserves the name Skywalker more than Rey. I personally agree with them because Ahsoka has done so much for the Skywalker Family, but I would love to know your thoughts on this idea.
They say that because they love Ahsoka more than Rey. But really, Ahsoka wouldn't, and doesn't need to, take the Skywalker name. She has her own identity and is not ashamed of it. Rey had no identity and didn't want to be connected to Palpatine. Also, the writer thought her taking the Skywalker name would justify calling the sequel trilogy part of the Skywalker saga.
Well Finn deserves the name Skywalker just as much as Rey, he fought Kylo with it, he was brave and he literally had no name, even "Finn" was given to him by someone else; so really Finn should be allowed to name himself and take the Skywalker name. He was commended by General Leia, also. If Rey can "choose" to just take the "Skywalker" name, then so should Finn too!
@@Elemento0420 it’s not a matter of whether Ahsoka would take it, it’s whether she deserves it, and if anyone does it would be her. Out of universe trying to connect Rey to anyone by simply claiming it is just bad writing. In-universe, it doesn’t make sense. Not using Palpatine as a name makes sense, but claiming the family name of the great hero you repeatedly harassed, mocked, and embarrassed doesn’t make any sense.
Two ways to determine why the sequels won’t have the same acceptance as the prequels. Toys sales and the Japanese reaction to both trilogy. There have been plenty of examples of declining ST toy sales compare to the OT and PT but something that hasn't been considered is the overseas audience and Japan is the perfect country to determine this. The prequel trilogy was actually very well received in japan when they came out because the clunky dialogue and wooded acting were lost in translation. The story of the prequels was what the Japanese loved about star wars. When the sequel trilogy came out they had the exact same reaction as a western audience because the story was just plain bad.
I'll never forget seeing Yoda kicking *ss in the first episode of clone wars as a kid. Seeing a little green frog just own everyone like that was like nothing I've seen before. ❤️
@@jakeaurod The guy is as big as Dooku's legs. The only alternative would be an unmovable wall. And that isn't very interesting. Hurling boulders and a force duel, by Dooku and Yoda, was in a stalemate.
I have always liked the Prequels, and my younger siblings liked them too long before things like TCW and Disney's disastrous attempt came about. And honestly they live the Clone Wars era more than even the Originals Trilogy because there is more there. Especially when they love the Separatists and Republic more on an aesthetic side. Separatists have more varied forces making it look like an actual army, and the Republic Clones had a sense customization in their right to distinguish one battalion from another.
You gotta think about this in terms of "What is the 'problem' that the prequels vs the sequels would need to overcome to be popular (Or to become "appreciated" to be more accurate, I think) With the prequels, there's good fight choreography and world-building, but Lucas doesn't know how humans talk. Fix by fast-forwarding through some parts. With the sequels, there's some interesting concepts here and there, like stormtroopers becoming rebels, or Punished Venom Luke, but the "problem" is that there's literally no overarching story. Its a trilogy in name only. Which adds only frustration on subsequent viewings because now you KNOW that all those setups aren't going to have payoffs.
@@129das That's fine. I didn't say it was a new idea tho, just that its SOMETHING in the sequels that was an interesting concept. Of course, then there's other "interesting" concepts like the Holdo Maneuver that literally just breaks how the universe works.
The difference between “then” and “now” is exactly what you said: distractions. There are many better things out there right now than the Star Wars sequels drawing in kids’ attention. As a K-12 substitute teacher across 3 different states since the sequels came out, I’ve seen LITTLE love for the sequels amongst kids. In fact, they tend to give into the hate and complaints and I’d imagine that is influenced from all of the flaws pointed out on social media. Whereas when we were kids in the early 2000s, it’s all kids talked about in a positive light (along with LotR and Harry Potter. All three of those franchises were talked about together it seemed). Especially with the plethora of video games, toys, clothes, and other merchandise that followed. I remember lightsabers and Anakin/Kenobi action figures selling out where I lived. Not to mention the Clone Wars tv show that largely helped out the narrative of the prequels, in my own opinion. But that’s nonexistent for the sequels. Nobody is buying the toys, there are no video games, and people rarely wear sequel-themed clothes or talk about it.
When the prequels came out, the young fans weren't on the Internet forums to see the general adult discourse. That is different with the sequels. I know from firsthand experience with young family members that a lot of kids hate the sequels because that's what they see on TH-cam and TikTok from older fans. It doesn't matter what you think about the quality of the sequels, it can't be denied that our modern society would never let them evolve the same way the prequels did.
I love the prequels when I saw them as a kid. Weirdly enough, Attack of the Clones was my favorite film of all time and I still hold it with high regard. I doubt any kid who grew up for the Sequels is so distraught over the lack of content for that time period since like you said, there's more possibilities to keep that generation entertained
The sequels didn't add anything to the lore. There was no worldbuilding. There was nothing new. The prequels, flaws and all, did those things. Maul's double-bladed saber is an example. Was it all great? No and that's coming from a major fan of the prequels. The sequels also followed decades of expanded universe comics/novels/games, yet didn't surpass those stories in any way.
The prequels bored me, which I never imagined could happen with a Star Wars movie. That said, the story had a direction and a purpose. The sequels are a pointless mess.
The problem with the stuff that today's people think later generations will warm up to (like Disney's Strangeworld or the Sequels) is that unlike the previous Underestimated Stuff That Got Cult Followings (e.g. Atlantis the Lost Empire, Treasure Planet, Titan A.E., etc.) there's not much "grandness in storytelling", for lack of a better word, contained in them. It's very evident that they were made with the wrong intentions in mind whereas the old underestimated had passions in just the right place.
The media hated the Prequels FAR more than the fans did. I for one loved the prequels just as much as the originals and 5-year-old me was there in the theaters in 1977.
The sequel trilogy had another issue working against it - and that was the EU. Because of the EU, we already had some expectations on how the sequel trilogy could have gone… And considering TFA was a rehash of super weapon of the month, with poor man’s Jacen Solo, staring should have been Jaina, it was off to a bad start… Then Rian Johnson had to go and make Crystal Star look good…
I grew up with the prequels and I argued with people who hated them to no avail for years before giving up. I heard a lot of superficial stuff, but I think I was able to form an idea of why they were hated and why maybe now that hate is rescinding. I understand why some people aren't as into the prequels, the originals had a very specific comedic, irreverent, and gritty tone that the prequels swapped out for a more serious, regal, and sleek tone, but I think that was out of faithfulness to a Republic culture that was originally implied through the way both Vader and Kenobi carried themselves in the original movies. To preface the points I want to make, I'll just say I enjoy movies of all time periods and styles, black and white, filmed in imax 4d, pop culture, art house, Marvel, DC, I don't care. A good movie is good and that doesn't mean I have to like it. A bad movie is bad and that doesn't mean I have to hate it. Nuance. Purely as movies, I think the original six are mostly masterfully made movies. I have issues with Episodes II and VI, but they are merely flawed. They both have far more redeeming qualities than condemning ones and are ultimately two very impactful chapters in the same powerful story. Looking at the sequels, I think it's a reverse case of the prequels. Some people will always love the sequels simply because they have concepts that are fun, wrapped in neat looking special effects and a more traditional Star Wars aesthetic. Wonderful. That's as good a reason to enjoy a movie as any. But years from now do I think people will be making analytical video essays about how misunderstood the sequels are? I can't imagine that. The sequels wear their messages on their sleeves, and it turns out those messages are superficial and don't hold up to scrutiny. The sequels are in actuality the very thing the prequels were so often accused of being, a slapdash story that exists to string together expensive special effects. The prequels were misunderstood. People were hung up on the superficial qualities of the prequels, the dialogue style, the direction choices for Anakin's character, and the CGI visual effects, and they didn't acknowledge the artistic qualities it possessed. Prequel detractors were often actively denying those qualities even existed, even going so far as to cite easily explainable, deliberately odd details that are consistent with the original trilogy as lazy and ignorant plot holes. So there's a very clear cut reason why the prequels have people who will admit they once hated them but now recognize they were better than they thought: people who weren't biased against them when they came out have been highlighting their "secret brilliance", and the sequels have been highlighting what unfounded prequel criticism actually looks like, in contrast. I don't know if the sequels have any secrets or brilliance. At best I can see a frame of mind to accept them as canon, accepting that the star wars are a cycle that the Force perpetuates or something like that, which is about as deep as the movies themselves. I do see the same superficial criticisms of lore with the sequels, and that sort of does strike me as a double standard. Star Wars has always had flimsy lore that would be made up on the spot to give characters more of a connection to the setting, and the details were only solidified in external media. It seems unfair to count it against the sequels for doing the same, but even with that I can see people might not want arbitrary new lore details tying the wider universe to movies with flimsy narratives. There's a number of qualities about the originals that the prequels emphasized in a way that gives the originals a much deeper context. The originals read like George was making stuff up as he went along to create surprising and unexpected twists, but there was a story he wanted to tell, so he created the prequels to extract that story from the originals, proving it was there all along. Bottom line, the prequels are part of George's six movie story line. The sequels were made by people who barely understood that story line, and still aimed to dismantle it and replace it with redundant reiterations of the original trilogy's themes, only without their soulful exploration of the characters. But that's all just my opinion, all just from a certain point of view. Maybe the sequels will blow up. I can't see the future.
That was an astute analysis, Thor. I think one thing to factor into things in addition to the love/hate dynamic is whether the story is compelling or not. I loved the OT when I first saw it as a kid and I still love it now because it's a great story. Withh the prequels, I liked PM when I first saw it, then cooled off on it, but have come around to liking it again. I hated AotC and thought RotS was fine but not good when I first saw them, but now rank them as "tolerable" and "actually pretty good," respectively. I think that is all up to the fact that in spite of the flaws in pacing, dialogue, character development, etc, the prequels really do tell an interesting story. I don't think the sequels have that fundamentally interesting story though--the story that's there is too disjointed to take off, and the lack of setup leads to a lack of payoff. tl;dr: good story + good execution > good story + middling execution > bad story no matter how good the execution.
Unlike sequels, prequels did actually bring new things to the Star Wars and those are amazing choreographic fights on lightsabers. Back then Nick Gillard together with Rey Park came up with a unique style of wielding battles on lightsabers which spawned countless fans trying to emulate the fights using carbon, polycarbonate, plastic blades. For example back on December 2022 there was 20th Lightsaber Choreography Completion. Fans from all over the globe presented their short fight films on lightsabers. I myself enjoy to walk out on a field and do some spinning sequences with my double sabers. And now, if we look at sequels, can we find anything unique or at least visually cool or epic. We'll, maybe some kids did love the First Order chase after the Resistance in the Eight Episode or maybe the final showdown against Emperor. However there is nothing truly unique here. The same lightsaber battles at some moments look extremely dumb(of course, there also were "dumb" moments in prequel fights, but altogether they were epic, they were amazing and backstage reels only proved that both Ewan Macgregor and Heyden Kristensen spent a lot of time with sabers to be called jedi Knights in real life.
It especially makes "critics" like Patrick praise the Disney Trilogy for doing cinematography and other features like using a lightsaber as a light source, were done in the Prequels. Which puts him and others like him to be questioned as they out themselves in their lack of film literacy; especially when some don't understand the 180° rule.
If I had to guess it is likely the sequels will have more liking later on but I think the prequels and original trilogy will always come out on top, this is said because the sequels rely so much on the original movies for one and then people will watch the movies from episodes 1-9. The prequels as much hate as they got were written for a different gen so now that the generation it was made more came up the movies got more credit even though they had a lot before, this will happen for the sequels but to a much lesser degree
Gotta highly disagree. It’s got nothing to do with generations. I was born well after the original trilogy came out and loved it even before the Special Editions came out. I loved the prequels. Nothing is wrong with them that makes them unwatchable, and the novelizations remove even those flaws. The sequel trilogy, on the other hand, is just bad in every category you could care to name. The music isn’t nearly as good, the jokes are Marvel-level bad, the bad parts of the dialogue are just outright bad and not “fun” bad, and the story is a disaster both in isolation and when connected to the previous six films, and that’s before you get into how it breaks the lore. Anyone that steps away from it for a bit will quickly realize that it is at best a guilty pleasure (I’ve got my own). The sequels aren’t like a number of films that were actually good but didn’t find an audience until well after their theatrical runs were over. The sequels are and will always be bad films. There’s nothing to really go back to with them.
I watched the movies first (except RotS - I'm not sure in what order though) and enjoyed them lots _BUT_ the weekly airing of two Clone Wars episodes (& starting in 2015-ish endless TH-cam videos, I guess) turned me into a real hardcore Star Wars fan :)
There is no way the sequels will gain the traction over time. Merchandising alone should scream failure as sequel figures can still be found in discount stores. The prequels also had the advantage of The Clone Wars expanding on them since 2008 till relatively recently is significant. Resistance definitely sucked and even kids knew it. The failure of Galaxy's Edge should also explain a lot. Nobody cared to dig deep to see knock off Stormtroopers or any of the related characters. The one thing you didn't mention in the video is the influence of Star Wars parents on their kids. I doubt there will be nearly as many sequel parents to do that.
The prequel trilogy was someone's loving creation. You can see that passion in those movies. The sequels (or at least 7-9) are made with a much greater passion for what was than what is, and appeal most to people who are nostalgic for the OT. Nobody who made the trilogy loves the entirety of it, and the people who made it are afraid to market it and reference it. Also, the prequels are legitimately good and well written movies. You can't say that about any of the sequels.
I don't plan on ever revisiting the sequels, because there's literally nothing interesting about them in my opinion, and I've never seen a single episode of the Clone Wars. And I've always loved the prequels, for me personally they are as great as the original trilogy, even better in certain ways. I don't get why people need to look for such explanations why people love the prequels. I get so tired of hearing people who actually love the prequels constantly saying ''The prequels may be flawed, but...'' as if it's not completely accepted in our society to just simply love certain movies or as if the original trilogy doesn't have some significant flaws. In fact every movie I've ever seen is flawed, but Star Wars episode 1-6 just happen to be some of my favorite movies of all time.
The Clone Wars is what really allowed me to like the prequels. It was the first Star Wars content I viewed and like you mentioned many people including me watched the prequels because of it. I think the big difference is the prequels had a lot that could be built off of, and George clearly had a lot of ideas for the show. Disney though? Im not really sure. The sequels are so slapped together that I am not sure what they can do.
Disney had no plan for the Sequel Trilogy, other than ruining the OT characters in every conceivable way. They succeeded, which is why I spit upon them for trying! And you're right. There is nothing to build off of, because there was no plan from the clowns who dare to call themselves "The Lucasfilm Story Group!"
Prequels were a good story bogged down by weird execution, the sequels are a pitiful, disjointed story barely held together by decent presentation. What happens in 30 years when "modern" graphics look outdated and they have to stand on their merits?
I was 10 when I went to see TPM in the cinema, so I'm definitely from the Prequel generation. But while the prequels were coming out, I grew to know and love the Original Trilogy too. By the time RotS came out, I was old enough to be able to start to critically analyse things. I thought the film was pretty rubbish at the time, although I still enjoyed it. I just remember laughing at the cheesy dialogue in the cinema on repeat viewings. Wasn't really particularly invested in Star Wars until the Disney films were about to be released. TFA was a very isolating experience because I hated it but there was a lot of love for it at the time. Loved Rogue One. Left the cinema after TLJ furious with anger. Didn't bother to watch Solo or TRoS (still haven't to this day). Recently, I've come to appreciate the Prequel Trilogy for what it was trying to achieve, no doubt helped by The Clone Wars series. I still think they're pretty bad films in their execution and a massive missed opportunity. Controversially I think TPM is the best of the lot. But the story they tell and the world building is excellent. The fall of the Republic and the rise of Palpatine feels like a fairly realistic take on the death of democracy in a fantasy setting. One of the original criticisms of the PT, that there was too much politics, in hindsight couldn't be more wrong. The politics is an essential component of Star Wars. I can't see anyone following a similar arc to come to appreciate the sequels, because there is nothing in them to be appreciated. They set out to achieve nothing except to milk a franchise (and in Rian Johnson's case, to be edgy and "subvert expectations"). Political nuance was replaced by a cliched "Nuremberg Rally" scene to let you know that the First Order are naughty bad people. I don't see how any amount of retconning or TV show tie-ins could possibly change that.
I was 9 when Episode 1 came out and loved it. I was disappointed with 2 & 3 from when they came out to 2021. In 2021 I watched the clone wars and rewatched the prequels and I found myself appreciating them so much more. I started to get behind the real political drama that was happening and a times how it mirrored the real life politics happening. I cannot imagine that I am gonna do the same with the sequels. I am also thinking that everything in the current Disney+ era is just working to fix the storylines of the sequels.
Everyone is allowed to like and dislike things to their choosing, but I'm tired of this sentiment that the prequels are "objectively bad" movies or were poorly made. Rick Worley's documentary on the prequels should be required viewing when it comes to properly judging those films. He goes into great detail explaining George's inspirations and aspirations when making the trilogy, and how they connect all 6 films into a modern day epic. A ton of the "flaws" that prequel detractors bring up are usually nitpicks, heavily opinionated, or actually served a purpose on George's end. Be it referencing his idols throughout cinema history or emulating the dialogue style of antique film/serials, or even just staying consistent with his own worldbuilding since Star Wars is, after all, set a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. This may be corny but honest to God, George Lucas Star Wars is a glorious passion project that literally changed cinema and modern-day storytelling as we know it, and that includes episodes 1-3. Rick Worley put it best, they really were better movies than we deserved.
Another argument regarding The Clone Wars is that the prequels, love 'em or hate 'em, provided a lot of material for TCW to expand upon, little intrigues that could be drawn out into larger story arcs etc ... The sequels did not give that opportunity to The Resistance which is why, to me at least, it felt so empty and soulless.
The prequels were always popular when they came out. It's only a few internet haters that were loud about their opinions. Some people were warning that the sequels were going to be bad, and those people were ignored. It took be proven how poor they are for anyone to listen. Disney's suicide will be remembered for all of time as 'not a bang, but a quiet and pathetic whimper'.
I was 13 when TFA came out, my brother was 9 and my cousin was 5, so between the three of us we probably spanned the age range targeted for the Sequel Trilogy. Post TLJ and TROS, my cousin (who initially liked the films) has now lost all interest in them but loves the Mandalorian and can’t wait for season 3 to come out, and my brother and I are happy to debate anyone who says the Sequels were good and the Prequels were bad, but then we grew up watching the Clone Wars. I would say the next generation of Star Wars fans are probably more influenced by streaming services and TV shows than the movies. Clone Wars is my brother’s and my generation’s Star Wars, Mandalorian is my cousin’s; the sequels don’t get a mention, and any casual fans who said they enjoyed it initially either will join the hype train for the next big franchise or grow up and realise nostalgia won’t save them.
I was in high school when Phantom Menace came out. And in college during Attack of the Clones and working full time by Revenge of the Sith. I loved them all at the time. PM was weak, and i didn’t like them as much as the OT, but i still loved them. Both Clone Wars series just made me love them more. Each time i watch any part of it, i love them more. The ST… i really enjoyed TFA at the time, and on first viewing liked TLJ. But with each subsequent viewing i enjoyed them less, the TLJ took 2 viewings for me to go from thinking it was okay to despising it. TFA i only came to despise retroactively. And RoS just made it all even worse. And now, i can’t enjoy any of the nee material like Mando, et al, because it all leads to RoS. Until the ST gets decanonized, i can’t enjoy any of the post RotJ timeline. And disney as done such a dismal job i don’t want them to touch ANYTHING before it more than they already have. Obi-wan was a train wreck. Bad batch is okay, rebels was good, rogue one was the best new star wars movie. I’ll stick with Lucas Star Wars. Its good. Its fun. It speaks to people. Disney wars merely farts and calls it speaking to people.
You are totally right for Mando, i didn't care seeing Luke in season 2 final because of the sequels. The sad part is that Disney will not decanonize sequels and the story will just pile up... Everything what happens before Rotj is okay (Kenobi is meh at the best).
I like the way you describe the situation. DisиєУ has displayed tremendous arrogance in the face of fans' objections to their repeated artistic failures and half-assed overall efforts. They insult our intelligence routinely. It's what they do. I'm reluctant to watch the new shows myself, because it's been made clear that the Mandoverse is the highway to the Sequelverse. I prefer not to go there. So why get involved with any new shows? Sad, because theres some good work being done, but egos rule the decision making process, preventing good storytelling. Anyway, great comment. You gave the new movies a real chance, and they ultimately failed you, me and countless others.
Got a similiar reception (and probably age) like you. To me I merge what is the canon, with few exceptions the best stories from Disney are before of Yavin, and the best of old EU is after Yavin, at least till the peace with the empire, bonus point, lot of silliness is left out. Now that is my head canon cause I got the best of both universes.
I’m going to preface this by saying I love the prequels and hate the sequels, so take my opinion with a pinch of salt! I personally think that one of the reasons the prequels weren’t liked was because they were not enough like the originals, the overuse of immediately outdated special effects was also a factor, and maybe the fact that Anakin’s downfall happened a bit too fast also left some people bitter. However when it comes to the story, it still makes sense, you can still draw a line from the Phantom Menace straight to Return of the Jedi and it makes one coherent story and plot. When you look at the Star Wars Saga (1-6) as the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker, it all works perfectly in my opinion, which is why it’s not as disliked now, people like myself have a louder voice as stated in this video, but also memes have played a big part, some people started liking the prequels ironically but soon found themselves actually enjoying them. The sequels are different. The fact there was no plan for them is evident. Say what you like about the dialogue and direction of the prequels, at least they were all heading in the same direction. The sequels undid the perfect ending to Anakins story and for no reason other than to leave it with a much worse ending than before. Palpatine’s return was not thought out. Snoke’s death was a moment of impact rather than a decent plot point. The visuals and audio was obviously the best of the three trilogies, but that is it. In this day and age a film looking and sounding good is the bare minimum. I love the cast, they tried their best with what they had, and the hate they personally got was thoroughly undeserved. If I had to sum up the sequels I would say it suffered from a lack of consistency (not just with story but with characters, their values and importance changed from film to film) and failed potential, the Force Awakens laid some lovely intrigue that the Last Jedi answered in a pitiful way, and then Abrams spent the last film in the trilogy childishly undoing Johnson’s pathetic input. The issues with the prequels are cosmetic and can be more easily overlooked because of the quality of the story. The issues with the sequels are too deep rooted to allow me to enjoy them. If you remove TFA and TLJ then you lose nothing watching TROS and that for me is the sign of a poor overarching story.
I have a cousin who was the same age when The Force Awakens came out as I was when The Phantom Menace came out. I remember talking with him about TFA and seeing him so excited, so drawn in to the world, discussing theories about Rey and Snoke and everything. And I never had a Star Wars conversation with him again. So I just assume he watched TLJ a couple years later and then just decided it wasn’t his thing.
Y'all need to watch Rick Worley's documentary on the Prequels - absolutely fantastic. You'll realise the films are basically flawless and absolutely masterful.
My 12 year older friend ask me to put on Phantom Menace so I did. He really likes it. The originals not so much, sequels not even seen. I'm 46 years old, children to the end.
You also had the parents from the OT pushing and keeping their kids love going during TCW and PT. Not sure that holds with PT and OT parents bringing and kindling their kids love in the ST
It’s also worth noting that much of the Prequel hatred wasn’t “out-of-the-gate” hatred. Much of it came about nearly five to ten years _after_ they first came out. Ironically enough, it was more the talking figureheads about how “the prequels were bad” that drove more of the disdain for them than the Prequels themselves. Nostalgia Critic and Red Letter Media are the big examples of this form of “hatred driven by the commentators” mentality as their content is heavily influential to those who often reference to how the prequels were bad; even over a decade after their made their content. In other words, the Prequel hatred is not organic as much as it was created by the critics themselves through being viral sensations. The sequels, by contrast, have a deeper, grassroots disdain as no one really talks about them nor cares about them after having torn them apart over the course of eight years (yes, it’s been eight years since the first sequel film came out). It’s also worth noting that the same prequel bashers tried to defend the films by intentionally downplaying their flaws by saying “but the prequels were worse!”
I feel like every generation that grew up with one era of star wars will hate the rest, as it will feel different to what they grew up with. Ot fans hated the prequels, prequel fans grew up then hated the sequels.
Boils down to one point. the prequels tell a phenomenal story, executed poorly for the most part whereas the sequels tell a poor story, dressed up with nice visuals and cinematography. The creators vision is clear to see throughout the prequel trilogy, whereas the sequels are devoid of any original ideas or direction and exist purely to recoup on an investment.
I enjoyed the Prequels when they came out (Darth JarJar head cannon). I've enjoyed the cartoons and even the early games, and honestly the sequels crushed me, we got so much good content after them though that I hope all the hate the sequels have gotten hasn't hurt the younger fandom.
From what I can tell, such support has quite some hurdles to go over considering not just reconciling the sequels to the rest of Star Wars, but also reconciling the individual sequel movies to each other.
I'm close to you in age, and we have similar timelines with seeing/experiencing Star Wars. We also share similar views on the sequels. When the prequels came out, I *loved* Phantom Menace so much I saw it 4x. Some people really hated Jar Jar. The biggest issue people I talked to had were about the whole "Immaculate Conception" thing and the midicholrians. This was my gripe. Episode 2, I saw once, most people hyped up the Yoda vs Dooku fight more than anything else, and liked the way the ending set up the Empire. Most negative talk was about Hayden's acting. Episode 3 I also only saw once. There was so much hype around the lightsaber duels and Vader donning the mask. Biggest complaints were the acting and some of the plot holes/inconsistencies. Also, Vader's "NOOOOOO" All these years later, and I find myself wanting to rewatch the prequels to see if they still hold up in any manner. Yes, even Episode 2. 🤣 The sequels, even being 7/5/3 years old, I'm just tired of them. Yes, they exist. No, I didn't like them. No, I don't think my mind will change on it. I will use them for meme material, though. 🤷♂️
I think the “rising popularity of the prequels” is more like the rising popularity of the Fall of the Republic Era. People don’t really like the movies more than they did before, but they do like the story more now that it has been better presented in various books, video games, and TV shows.
Yeah. I enjoyed the cinema experience of the prequel movies, but couldn't watch them afterwards. I even tried again recently after The Clone Wars to see if it affected my opinion but no, it just enhanced my view of the animated show and the amazing job it did with the same characters.
I think the only way to 'redeem' the sequels is a show that takes place a bit before TFA and ends before RoS. Something that adds bigger picture context ala Clone Wars or Andor. You can create some very deep and dark storyline. Imagine a plot-line where, for example, one of the Senators in the New Republic is a First Order sympathiser and leaves the capital planet just before it is destroyed by Starkiller base, but allows his family to stay behind to maintain his cover. What about the Jedi Order? Why not re-introduce Mara Jade in the middle of everything? Make Kyle Katarn cannon (albeit slightly aged down), as he helps Luke with the order, but takes a leave of absence to chase after his student that turned to the dark side (this, spoilers, is the Bad ending from Jedi Academy). Take any of the background characters and give them context. The possibilities are endless. Of course, the obvious problem is obvious - this would require a TON of original thought and planning, but one could dream.
Not wanting to sound like I'm slamming the prequels. But we could only compare the prequels to the original. And it was arguably obvious that the original were better. With the sequels we have two to compare them against. And by most accounts and opinions they come up short. So I don't think that the sequels will rise to the acceptance level of the prequels. The prequels benefited from the sequels in that there was something less Star wars like to elevate them to second place.
The Prequels were improved with the Clone Wars, and Rebels, diluting the problems with the movies because they are part of a larger telling of the setting and characters. The same may happen with the Sequels with the interceding works like the Mandoverse, and possible Sequel sequels, but only time will tell. Check back around 2040 and we’ll know!
The genius of The Clone Wars was twofold. It flushed out and built complexity around the somewhat simplistic and often silly prequels. And it blended the prequels and original trilogy to form a seamless feel. Adding new Y-Wings off the assembly line, proto-ESB probe droids, etc made it feel like one long continuity that didn’t make you choose between PT and OT. It never covered up the prequel silliness but accepted it and said, for example, well yes Jar Jar is goofy but also more complex than the movies showed. He can have an entire arc with Mace one of the most serious characters and it still feels natural. The various supporting media post-sequels only ever feels like an apologist trying to lamely explain away inconsistencies, plot holes, and logic breaks instead of expanding and complexifying (Trademark BH) the movies they’re following.
My five elementary kids have still not seen the Garbage Sequels……. And we are going through the OT & PT again. I have to properly indoctrinate, I mean keep the joy of Star Wars alive.😎
While I wasn’t a big fan of some of the aspects of the prequels, I never hated them. They were original, expanded the universe and still felt like Star Wars. The Disney sequels felt off and wrong from the jump. The last Jedi truly was the beginning of the end.
Thor should release new vids every Thursday, then we can just start calling it Thor's Day again, since that's where the name originated in the first place.
Grew up with the prequels and didn't know thete are people hating the sequels. Love Ep8 for fixing Luke. I think most of the hate is just clickbait anyways. There is no bad Star Wars yet.
Gen-x here. I hated the prequels primarily because of Jar Jar and Anakin's presentation. Anakin always appeared to be a bad person deep down and not the good person we were to believe existed in the OT. Also the big battle scenes seemed too "Lord of the Rings" for my liking with way too many Jedi. After AOTC, I stopped consuming all Star Wars content until TFA came out. I hear The Clone Wars fixed Anakin, but I only watch live action content. I should probably watch ROTS at some point... PS: I liked TFA (not great but good), but then TLJ killed off characters with promise (Snoke, Phasma) along with presenting grumpy old Luke and letting him die. There really is nothing TROS could have done to fix the ST outside of retconning half of TLJ.
Older fans trashed on the prequels because they were too different from what they imagined. Younger fans who grew up during the prequel era liked them, until they were convinced by older fans not to. I don't think the ST was marketed to the current generation. It was mostly trying to appeal to those older fans of the OT with nostalgia.
If the Godawful Sequels really were intended to appeal to Ye Olde Fannes of Ye Olde Trilogye of Originne, then DisиєУ has failed in a truly spectacular manner. Well, truthfully, regardless of the intended vict- er, audience, they comprehensively failed.
i was a kid when the original series came out... i've watched both the prequels and sequels... i enjoyed all the movies... i'm 50 now... my favorites ones are still the originals, but will watch the movies in order...
I ALWAYS liked the prequels, Ep 1 not so much… but Ep 2 and 3 were on point for me. And I was in my early 30s when they came out. They are clearly movies that belong together and tell a coherent story, unlike the sequels.
I think you could say I was the prime demographic for the sequels, bring 15 when 7 came out. I saw all three in theaters, and I grew up with the prequels. I have a hard time watching the sequels now, but I can still endlessly watch the prequels. I don't think sequel lovers will take over; they are too few and far between.
There's nothing to go back to. The entire sequel trilogy is based off the idea of scorched earth. Ryan Johnson had the biggest effect but he wasn't the one who started it. The prequels despite their flaws gave you things to be amazed at. The biggest proof we have is the SHEER amount of content we're getting from the sequel Era: Basically nothing.
There’s are some really glaring differences here: for all its “bad dialogue issues and green screen acting, the prequels had depth of story and cohesion. Not to mention an insane amount of world building. Look at how many great stories and characters that were born of those movies and that era. Whereas, the sequels… well, even JJ admitted that there was zero forethought, depth or direction to any of it. Therefore, it lacks the substance to stand the test of time. It is only relevant now; and mostly because of what a letdown it all turned out to be.
The difference with the prequels from the sequels is that there was a multimedia market for the prequels toys games shows books stickers something for everyone the sequels had a fortnite tie in....
As a kid during the early 2000s the only 2 costumes you would see during Halloween is captain Rex or darth Vader. I think that speaks for itself for the younger generation at least anecdotally
I think one of the main reasons kids who grew up with the prequels like them is the amazing lightsaber fights and character moments which are definitely lackluster in the new trilogy
People need to watch Rick Worley's documentary on the Prequels - absolutely fantastic work, 2 hours of wondrous and enlightening analysis. You'll realise the films are basically flawless and absolutely masterful.
I also loved the Prequels despite it's Flaws...because it was STILL George Lucas! The Disney Sequels are NOT connected to the Previous 6 movies artistically...they are VERY different and distinct and don't blend with George Lucas's storytelling! That's not gonna change regardless how much time ⌚ changes.
You have provided rational and thoughtful evaluation of a hot topic that normally evolves into semi shouting matches. If the divided Star Wars fandom are all Sith Lords, this video makes you a Jedi knight
The prequels had a cohesive story that followed through all 3 movies, being Palpatine's rise to power and Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, and both of those stories intersected and reached their climax in the 3rd movie of the trilogy. The sequels don't have an overarching story like the prequels which is what makes the prequels enjoyable. Even in those moments where dialogue isn't delivered well or the CGI looks bad, we can think about the larger story being told. The sequels don't have that, which is why I doubt they will eventually get the love the prequels have gotten.
Perhaps what I'm about to say is a bit blasphemous, maybe even a cardinal sin, but I was a young child who was being guided through the trilogies. The first star wars movie I ever saw was episode one, followed by two, then three, then four through six. I LOVED the prequels, and the originals! Seeing them in that order as a kid I could never understand the hate toward them. Now as an adult I love them just as much and they hit my nostalgia note on top of it. The sequels I disliked immediately. 7 to me right away laid the blacktop for shitty platitude of a trilogy, then episode 8 just sealed it and kicked me right in the dick .
Don't know if I would be considered a prequel kid--I was 9 at the time Phantom Menace came out. I'd already developed a love of the originals, and although I didn't hate them, I definitely preferred the original trilogy. I feel like they hold up better overall. However, I think the Clone Wars tv show was definitely instrumental in redeeming the prequel era. And that is the difference between the prequels and the sequels so far. There is not yet any meaningful push or plan backing the sequels because the sequels were FOUNDED on no plan--only marketing. Which is why they meander and are generally forgettable. The prequels were based on a (more or less) cohesive story that had debatable execution. The sequels were a pure cash grab with no soul or sense behind them, and those kind of things rarely have the staying power necessary to span generations. Add to this the fact that our world is bombarded with all kinds of media that crowds out legacy franchises with the young, and I hardly think the sequels have much of a chance.
The prequels were criticized. The sequels were straight up hated. The prequels also got a boost from people comparing them to the sequels. Unless Disney puts out something even worse than the sequels, they're not going to get that help.
Before I even watch this, I believe the prequels found its love after the clone wars. The clone wars show brought more to the characters. Unless Disney can find a way to make a new republic show, I don’t see them getting as many people to turn around and like it.
Wasn't the New Republic vaporized in the first half of the first ST film? What world building could they do that anybody would want to be invested in? I suspect this is the same reason the PT film take place on Naboo and not Alderaan.
No, I actually loved the prequels when they came out. They had Lucas' creative world building despite the flaws (unlike the sequels)
Y'all need to watch Rick Worley's documentary on the Prequels - absolutely fantastic. You'll realise the films are quite literally flawless, perfect in every facet of filmmaking and cinema, and conclusively, masterful.
What flaws? They are perfect.
I've always enjoyed them too, and I do think the hate for them back then has been a bit overexaggerated. And that's due in large part to most critics and those in the media also not liking them (back then) and thus controlling the narrative and pushing the idea they were largely hated. Just like they try to push the narrative today that it's only vocal minority who hate the sequels. That said, there's still no denying there were plenty of fans who did not like them back in the day.
People in my theater applauded Revenge of the Sith when it ended. When I saw TFA opening day, the audience only applauded the opening crawl.
@@Wackaz lmao, yeah no. The only thing I’ll “realise” is the cope you fanboys go through. Lol “flawless” how delusional.
I was born in 1995. For my entire life stars wars was always defaulted to prequel content for me and my peers. I can understand thinking that the sequels may have a prequel type of reception years from now but I think a huge reason for the prequels mainstream appeal was its dominance in all Star Wars material for a large time frame. The prequels had multiple supplementary books, TV shows, and video games. You didn’t have to be a prequel movie fan to enjoy the prequel era. Sequels were very lacking in non movie content. Also once the phantom menace came out in 1999, there was almost no official mention of the original trilogy. Immediately after the sequels wrapped up we gotta prequel and OT content. The prequel simply was star wars from 1999 to 2015. The sequels just came and went like a faint dream.
Star Wars EU give us lot of material about prequel Trilogy
The PT, for all of its faults, tells a pretty compelling story. OTOH, the ST is a hot mess beyond redemption
And the more they tried to fix the sequel trilogy problems, the worse they get.
what's otoh
The PT has no flaws. Rick Worley, Style Is Substance proved this, and so can I.
@@captainhaddock6435 On the other hand
@@captainhaddock6435 on the other hand ?
I always loved the prequel trilogy despite the clunky dialogue. At least they had heart and soul into the trilogy and awesome world building. they'll always be remembered. The Sequel trilogy on the other hand is forgettable. No plan, no characters arcs, no story, none of that. They had every opportunity to make that trilogy as good as Episode's 1-6, and they failed completely and utterly.
The dialogue isn't clunky, it's so obviously influenced and inspired by the dialogue of the 1940s and 1950s which emphasises the romantic, tragic genre, themes and tones of the Prequels. On top of that, the dialogue is operatic, akin to that of a Shakespearen play. This isn't clunky dialogue, it's not bad, it just comes from a taste many people don't share with Lucas because they don't understand it, which is exactly what Lucas predicted. Ultimately, people hated the dialogue of the Prequels because they hadn't watched a film before 1970 before lmao.
The OT had some major clunky dialogue as well at some moments.
@@Wackaz This isn't the 40s or 50s. The anachronism is why it's perceived as clunky.
Only Kylo Ren is the stand out everything else is so bad.
@@barrysmith4610 True.
TOY SALES: The greatest barometer of how kids engage with SW. PT sales were insane! The SW section took up most of an isle. ST toys (I've only seen action figures) sat on shelves and then lingered in clearance. Mandolorian, Characters from the 1-6 movie and Mandolorian, plus lightsabers, and clone wars action figures are the one toys I ever see in a now tiny SW section.
how many kids nowadays play with toys tho
as someone in the actual generation/ slightly older
I very rarely played with toys besides mostly lego
from what i can tell its mostly just video games
@@Nebula2187 That’s not super encouraging for the sequels, either. Except for the Lego games, there’s been nothing for the sequels.
@@John-fk2ky Theres Been the lego games, Battlefront 2 , Disney Infinity but yes i agree there hasnt been much
I don't think the sequels will expierience a similar resurgence. The prequels had some cringy characters and Bad dialogue, yes, but the overall story was good and overall logical. And the story is usually what people remember when they think of a movie after a while whereas action and dialogue are nice in the moment you watch but don't really matter afterwards. I honestly don't even remember most of the bad dialogue lines from the prequels (other than the memes). But with the sequels the biggest problem is the overall story. And that's what all future content will have to align with. A new series can't better the sequels like CW did for the prequels because things don't need to be fleshed out more, they didn't make any sense at all.
You didn't even mention the best part: the prequels had exceptional world building. They didn't really have any "member berries." Lucas created a whole new side of the galaxy from scratch and gave the EU writers tons to work with.
The sequels and even Mandalorian have been terrible at this. They've introduced so little to the world because they all rehash old Star Wars content without creating new ideas
The problem with the stuff that today's people think later generations will warm up to (like Disney's Strangeworld or the Sequels) is that unlike the previous Underestimated Stuff That Got Cult Followings (e.g. Atlantis the Lost Empire, Treasure Planet, Titan A.E., etc.) there's not much "grandness in storytelling", for lack of a better word, contained in them. It's very evident that they were made with the wrong intentions in mind whereas the old underestimated had passions in just the right place.
This is what I’ve been saying for years against those that clam the Sequels will be the next prequels a generation later.
The Prequel Trilogy had memes going for it. There's a whole compilation of "this movie, but only the memes". What do the sequels have? The "Rey who" meme? The "Kylo Ren kills Han Solo" meme? People are talking in Palpatine memes to this day, I don't think the Sequels have much of a potential in that regard.
Exactly. A decade from now there will still be people making video essays and writing books and teaching film school classes on why Star Wars was great and the long-term impact on cinema of movies like Star Wars. People making videos or book and such about Disney's sequel trilogy will all be "lessons in how to destroy a multi-million dollar franchise" and "why JJ Abram's empty 'Mystery Box' storytelling FAILS".
What fans "grew up with the Sequel Trilogy"? So far as I can tell, the "fans" of the sequel trilogy are Reylo shippers (and they're not kids) and the "if you don't like them, you're an ist-a-phobe!" political crowd (who, as childish as they are, aren't kids either). And ten years from now, no one is going to care about their opinions on anything.
The simple truth is that the complaints about the PT were largely production issues, while the complaints against the ST are narrative issues. The PT did a wonky job telling a great story. The ST did a wonky job telling a horrible story. The Clones Wars show helped smooth over the shortcomings of the PT by doing a good job telling its story within the PT timeframe. This is something you can't do with the ST because it's shortcomings are the story itself.
Or as I've put it, the PT is like a a cake where the decoration is a bit of a mess, but once you bite into it, it's pretty damn good; the ST are a cake that is masterfully decorated...but when you cut into it, it turns out to be a hollow shell of frosting with NOTHING inside!
Super goddamn true
Prequels have an awesome story told poorly (at least the first two, RotS is genuinelly great in every way)
Sequels have a shitty story told poorly, the only positive thing i can say about them is that the practical and cgi effects are great and they might age better than the prequels effects.
Honestly, I think the prequels are just great movies that tell their story in the best way possible. Attack of the Clones is the weakest Star Wars movie, but with the amount of baggage it has to carry, I don't think I could've told the story better any other way. The Clone Wars more adds to the trilogy than fixes it.
Great point, the PT also had a lot of good media tie ins to help flesh it out, video games, books, shows, comics etc. whereas the ST just didn’t feel the same way.
No. People complained very much about the story and the way it was told as well.
I think the non-movie media had a lot to do with the Prequels lasting and growing popularity. The Clone Wars show and the many, many games kept the interest from fading.
The Sequels had one series that didn't seem very popular and Lego games. The movies seem to just pick up right after each other leaving little room for side stories and something like the Clone Wars.
To be fair Star Wars Resistance was aimed at young children, not like clone wars which was aimed at older children/adolescents.
expanded universe did lot more for prequel than Dave filoni clone wars ever did
I agree but that's not only it. Prequels were not hated by most, there was prequel hate but more a loud minority. Prequels were criticized mostly fairly but even that's wasn't normally hate.
@@xxcaptninjaxx4301 The Filoni haters who don’t know anything are coming out of the woodwork again.
Don’t forget the fan projects like Lego 501st legion and Lego squad 42
I liked the prequels when they came out. What I hate the sequels for (apart from being bad movies) is that they were rehashing the OT in a way that came across an excuse for the prequels being so different. Basically, the sequels embraced the prequel hate and pretended they didn‘t exist. Other mistakes were made… sequel rewatch value for me is absolutely zero. I still go back to the prequels from time to time, so much good stuff in there.
The prequels have haters, but the sequels are hated.
@@129das Yep that's the BIG difference
there is also the fact that the conflict is reignited in a way that undoes the OT. everything the heroes have done is for naught, and the sequels arguably end up worse off than the OT did. basically, if you want a happy ending, you are better off just removing the sequels from your mind. the prequels at least had the excuse of being prequels, and so HAD to end on a bleak note. when you finish watching ROTS, you could take solace in remembering how it all ends. TROS just makes the ending of ROTJ look bittersweet in hindsight
@@Underworlder5 And the Sequels go so far in trying to avoid the prequels complaints they go too far. The compliant about politics which ignoring that a story about the fall of one government and the rise of another is going to require politics to some degree is that they were also used in the OT because they were required to understand the scale and importance of events. The first film alone had a key plot point was that the Empire had finally disbanded the Senate and thus removed the last traces of the Old Republic in their regime. This scene is necessary for understanding how far the Empire has fallen compared to the Old Republic and what the Rebels are fighting for. The lack of politics in the Sequels means that the war seems like a gang conflict that isn't changing anything.
The sequel trilogy will not see a resurgence in popularity because the generation of kids they were targeting largely preferred the Marvel movies. That’s honestly why some of the Phase 1 movies are now being re-evaluated as better movies now. The Sequel trilogy didn’t fulfill the previous generations of fans, and they weren’t good enough on their own to bring in the new fans. I showed all of the movies to my younger siblings and they also gravitated towards the original six movies
They lost 50% of viewership with the sequel numbers don't work it was not well received
The problem with the stuff that today's people think later generations will warm up to (like Disney's Strangeworld or the Sequels) is that unlike the previous Underestimated Stuff That Got Cult Followings (e.g. Atlantis the Lost Empire, Treasure Planet, Titan A.E., etc.) there's not much "grandness in storytelling", for lack of a better word, contained in them. It's very evident that they were made with the wrong intentions in mind whereas the old underestimated had passions in just the right place.
I think it also needs to be said that a lot of re-examining and appreciating the prequels, let's call it a resurgence, came from the fact that they looked great compared to the sequels.
@@ejtattersall156
Agreed.
@@ellugerdelacruz2555
There are probably many more examples of things people thought would be more appreciated over time that are forgotten or seen as total abominations today. Tons of projects that were clearly purely to cash in on something else, stuff like “Sit Down, Shut Up”.
The Sequel Trilogy is mandatory viewing, but only as a cautionary tale of what not to do with a very popular IP
The Sequel Trilogy was a mistake.
@@FTChomp9980 indeed
The Sequel Trilogy is apocryphal.
Like the RIngs of Power. What not to do with Tolkien.
I think the prequels have found new popularity due to two main things: 1. The clone wars TV show fleshed out the events of the prequels in much greater depth than any single trilogy ever could, and 2. The events of the prequels actually have some relation to the original trilogy beyond just including the same characters.
Even if the sequels got their own clone wars, I don't think it would make them any more popular, because they're so disconnected from the other movies and have so little to add to the universe.
video game comic book novel came from EU did lot more than the clone wars tv show 2008-2020 hell even clone wars 2003-2005 but yeah sure
I doubt it. Clone wars was way more accessible than EU games, comics or novels, seeing as it was always airing on a widely available cartoon channel, and also ran for 6 years. Its accessibility and longevity helped it impact a lot of young people, including myself.
@@xxcaptninjaxx4301 Okay anti Filoni fan.
I love the Prequels and I hate TCW, stop this argument. TCW is not compatible with the movies in many respects, and Filoni hasn't been criticized until the Ahsoka series. Parts of the fandom have long had an opinion about him no different than that of Abrams, Johnson or Headland. It is naive to think that every Prequel fan has watched the 7-season cartoon.
My dad and I watched Attack of the Clones recently because I wanted him to watch Clone Wars. I could swear he brought me to each one of the prequels when they came out, but he said he couldn't remember the movie at all. He actually really got into it and was talking about how much he liked it. I thought it was funny because it was the least liked one of the three.
I think a lot of fans were disappointed by TPM; I know I was. But overall the dislike of the PT was overblown and by the time ROTS came out the fandom was a lot more accepting of the PT even though I think the consensus was that the OT was definitely better. The anger the ST has caused is far greater and will last longer, particularly if Disney tries to "fix" it in their forthcoming shows. It won't be tolerated like the PT haters have learned to do.
If I understand correctly the problem of the PM was that the movie was totally different from the originals and people expected something else? I became a star wars fan in 2005 when Revenge came out and wached all star wars movies at the same time. Really liked Prequels and they are still my favourite star wars content by far, I can see flaws in them but I still love them. Funny thing is that I didn't like original trilogy as a kid. It just felted to old or something compared to Prequels.
For the sequels... Force awakens is probably the biggest disappointment of all movies I wached.
I highly doubt it.
Hey Thor, I've heard some people say that Ahsoka Tano deserves the name Skywalker more than Rey. I personally agree with them because Ahsoka has done so much for the Skywalker Family, but I would love to know your thoughts on this idea.
Well, Ahsoka is more Skywalker than Rey.
Never heard that, but agree 💯 percent.
They say that because they love Ahsoka more than Rey. But really, Ahsoka wouldn't, and doesn't need to, take the Skywalker name. She has her own identity and is not ashamed of it.
Rey had no identity and didn't want to be connected to Palpatine. Also, the writer thought her taking the Skywalker name would justify calling the sequel trilogy part of the Skywalker saga.
Well Finn deserves the name Skywalker just as much as Rey, he fought Kylo with it, he was brave and he literally had no name, even "Finn" was given to him by someone else; so really Finn should be allowed to name himself and take the Skywalker name. He was commended by General Leia, also. If Rey can "choose" to just take the "Skywalker" name, then so should Finn too!
@@Elemento0420 it’s not a matter of whether Ahsoka would take it, it’s whether she deserves it, and if anyone does it would be her. Out of universe trying to connect Rey to anyone by simply claiming it is just bad writing. In-universe, it doesn’t make sense. Not using Palpatine as a name makes sense, but claiming the family name of the great hero you repeatedly harassed, mocked, and embarrassed doesn’t make any sense.
Two ways to determine why the sequels won’t have the same acceptance as the prequels. Toys sales and the Japanese reaction to both trilogy. There have been plenty of examples of declining ST toy sales compare to the OT and PT but something that hasn't been considered is the overseas audience and Japan is the perfect country to determine this. The prequel trilogy was actually very well received in japan when they came out because the clunky dialogue and wooded acting were lost in translation. The story of the prequels was what the Japanese loved about star wars. When the sequel trilogy came out they had the exact same reaction as a western audience because the story was just plain bad.
I'll never forget seeing Yoda kicking *ss in the first episode of clone wars as a kid. Seeing a little green frog just own everyone like that was like nothing I've seen before. ❤️
That choice of combat style for Yoda was definitely one of the odder choices.
@@jakeaurod I don't mind. It's too hilarious and fun 😂
@@jakeaurod The guy is as big as Dooku's legs. The only alternative would be an unmovable wall. And that isn't very interesting. Hurling boulders and a force duel, by Dooku and Yoda, was in a stalemate.
I have always liked the Prequels, and my younger siblings liked them too long before things like TCW and Disney's disastrous attempt came about.
And honestly they live the Clone Wars era more than even the Originals Trilogy because there is more there. Especially when they love the Separatists and Republic more on an aesthetic side.
Separatists have more varied forces making it look like an actual army, and the Republic Clones had a sense customization in their right to distinguish one battalion from another.
Unlike the sequels, the prequels had a consistent vision and expanded the story
expanded the Star Wars universe
You gotta think about this in terms of "What is the 'problem' that the prequels vs the sequels would need to overcome to be popular (Or to become "appreciated" to be more accurate, I think)
With the prequels, there's good fight choreography and world-building, but Lucas doesn't know how humans talk. Fix by fast-forwarding through some parts.
With the sequels, there's some interesting concepts here and there, like stormtroopers becoming rebels, or Punished Venom Luke, but the "problem" is that there's literally no overarching story. Its a trilogy in name only. Which adds only frustration on subsequent viewings because now you KNOW that all those setups aren't going to have payoffs.
Stormtroopers becoming rebels has been done better in the books. It is not new. It even in the OT with a little digging.
@@129das That's fine. I didn't say it was a new idea tho, just that its SOMETHING in the sequels that was an interesting concept.
Of course, then there's other "interesting" concepts like the Holdo Maneuver that literally just breaks how the universe works.
Lucas does know how humans talk, he just wasn't looking to portray how we talk in modern day
I will never allow the sequels to exist unchallenged, it can be 20 years from now and I will still say Disney destroyed the franchise
I always loved the Prequels! They have George Lucas’ vision attached. Star Wars 1-6 will always be my absolute favorite!❤️
The difference between “then” and “now” is exactly what you said: distractions. There are many better things out there right now than the Star Wars sequels drawing in kids’ attention. As a K-12 substitute teacher across 3 different states since the sequels came out, I’ve seen LITTLE love for the sequels amongst kids. In fact, they tend to give into the hate and complaints and I’d imagine that is influenced from all of the flaws pointed out on social media. Whereas when we were kids in the early 2000s, it’s all kids talked about in a positive light (along with LotR and Harry Potter. All three of those franchises were talked about together it seemed). Especially with the plethora of video games, toys, clothes, and other merchandise that followed. I remember lightsabers and Anakin/Kenobi action figures selling out where I lived. Not to mention the Clone Wars tv show that largely helped out the narrative of the prequels, in my own opinion. But that’s nonexistent for the sequels. Nobody is buying the toys, there are no video games, and people rarely wear sequel-themed clothes or talk about it.
When the prequels came out, the young fans weren't on the Internet forums to see the general adult discourse. That is different with the sequels. I know from firsthand experience with young family members that a lot of kids hate the sequels because that's what they see on TH-cam and TikTok from older fans. It doesn't matter what you think about the quality of the sequels, it can't be denied that our modern society would never let them evolve the same way the prequels did.
I grew up with the prequels and always loved them. As an adult now I find a special appreciation for Attack of the Clones specifically.
I love the prequels when I saw them as a kid. Weirdly enough, Attack of the Clones was my favorite film of all time and I still hold it with high regard. I doubt any kid who grew up for the Sequels is so distraught over the lack of content for that time period since like you said, there's more possibilities to keep that generation entertained
The sequels didn't add anything to the lore. There was no worldbuilding. There was nothing new. The prequels, flaws and all, did those things. Maul's double-bladed saber is an example. Was it all great? No and that's coming from a major fan of the prequels. The sequels also followed decades of expanded universe comics/novels/games, yet didn't surpass those stories in any way.
The prequels bored me, which I never imagined could happen with a Star Wars movie. That said, the story had a direction and a purpose. The sequels are a pointless mess.
@@ejtattersall156 Exactly 👏👏👏
The problem with the stuff that today's people think later generations will warm up to (like Disney's Strangeworld or the Sequels) is that unlike the previous Underestimated Stuff That Got Cult Followings (e.g. Atlantis the Lost Empire, Treasure Planet, Titan A.E., etc.) there's not much "grandness in storytelling", for lack of a better word, contained in them. It's very evident that they were made with the wrong intentions in mind whereas the old underestimated had passions in just the right place.
The media hated the Prequels FAR more than the fans did. I for one loved the prequels just as much as the originals and 5-year-old me was there in the theaters in 1977.
Honestly, I find vids that bash the sequels more interesting than watching them. Most of them are more thought out and better written too.
The sequel trilogy had another issue working against it - and that was the EU.
Because of the EU, we already had some expectations on how the sequel trilogy could have gone…
And considering TFA was a rehash of super weapon of the month, with poor man’s Jacen Solo, staring should have been Jaina, it was off to a bad start…
Then Rian Johnson had to go and make Crystal Star look good…
I grew up with the prequels and I argued with people who hated them to no avail for years before giving up. I heard a lot of superficial stuff, but I think I was able to form an idea of why they were hated and why maybe now that hate is rescinding.
I understand why some people aren't as into the prequels, the originals had a very specific comedic, irreverent, and gritty tone that the prequels swapped out for a more serious, regal, and sleek tone, but I think that was out of faithfulness to a Republic culture that was originally implied through the way both Vader and Kenobi carried themselves in the original movies.
To preface the points I want to make, I'll just say I enjoy movies of all time periods and styles, black and white, filmed in imax 4d, pop culture, art house, Marvel, DC, I don't care. A good movie is good and that doesn't mean I have to like it. A bad movie is bad and that doesn't mean I have to hate it. Nuance.
Purely as movies, I think the original six are mostly masterfully made movies. I have issues with Episodes II and VI, but they are merely flawed. They both have far more redeeming qualities than condemning ones and are ultimately two very impactful chapters in the same powerful story.
Looking at the sequels, I think it's a reverse case of the prequels. Some people will always love the sequels simply because they have concepts that are fun, wrapped in neat looking special effects and a more traditional Star Wars aesthetic. Wonderful. That's as good a reason to enjoy a movie as any. But years from now do I think people will be making analytical video essays about how misunderstood the sequels are? I can't imagine that.
The sequels wear their messages on their sleeves, and it turns out those messages are superficial and don't hold up to scrutiny. The sequels are in actuality the very thing the prequels were so often accused of being, a slapdash story that exists to string together expensive special effects.
The prequels were misunderstood. People were hung up on the superficial qualities of the prequels, the dialogue style, the direction choices for Anakin's character, and the CGI visual effects, and they didn't acknowledge the artistic qualities it possessed. Prequel detractors were often actively denying those qualities even existed, even going so far as to cite easily explainable, deliberately odd details that are consistent with the original trilogy as lazy and ignorant plot holes.
So there's a very clear cut reason why the prequels have people who will admit they once hated them but now recognize they were better than they thought: people who weren't biased against them when they came out have been highlighting their "secret brilliance", and the sequels have been highlighting what unfounded prequel criticism actually looks like, in contrast.
I don't know if the sequels have any secrets or brilliance. At best I can see a frame of mind to accept them as canon, accepting that the star wars are a cycle that the Force perpetuates or something like that, which is about as deep as the movies themselves.
I do see the same superficial criticisms of lore with the sequels, and that sort of does strike me as a double standard. Star Wars has always had flimsy lore that would be made up on the spot to give characters more of a connection to the setting, and the details were only solidified in external media. It seems unfair to count it against the sequels for doing the same, but even with that I can see people might not want arbitrary new lore details tying the wider universe to movies with flimsy narratives.
There's a number of qualities about the originals that the prequels emphasized in a way that gives the originals a much deeper context. The originals read like George was making stuff up as he went along to create surprising and unexpected twists, but there was a story he wanted to tell, so he created the prequels to extract that story from the originals, proving it was there all along.
Bottom line, the prequels are part of George's six movie story line. The sequels were made by people who barely understood that story line, and still aimed to dismantle it and replace it with redundant reiterations of the original trilogy's themes, only without their soulful exploration of the characters.
But that's all just my opinion, all just from a certain point of view. Maybe the sequels will blow up. I can't see the future.
Nice comment.
That was an astute analysis, Thor. I think one thing to factor into things in addition to the love/hate dynamic is whether the story is compelling or not. I loved the OT when I first saw it as a kid and I still love it now because it's a great story. Withh the prequels, I liked PM when I first saw it, then cooled off on it, but have come around to liking it again. I hated AotC and thought RotS was fine but not good when I first saw them, but now rank them as "tolerable" and "actually pretty good," respectively. I think that is all up to the fact that in spite of the flaws in pacing, dialogue, character development, etc, the prequels really do tell an interesting story. I don't think the sequels have that fundamentally interesting story though--the story that's there is too disjointed to take off, and the lack of setup leads to a lack of payoff.
tl;dr: good story + good execution > good story + middling execution > bad story no matter how good the execution.
Unlike sequels, prequels did actually bring new things to the Star Wars and those are amazing choreographic fights on lightsabers. Back then Nick Gillard together with Rey Park came up with a unique style of wielding battles on lightsabers which spawned countless fans trying to emulate the fights using carbon, polycarbonate, plastic blades. For example back on December 2022 there was 20th Lightsaber Choreography Completion. Fans from all over the globe presented their short fight films on lightsabers. I myself enjoy to walk out on a field and do some spinning sequences with my double sabers.
And now, if we look at sequels, can we find anything unique or at least visually cool or epic. We'll, maybe some kids did love the First Order chase after the Resistance in the Eight Episode or maybe the final showdown against Emperor. However there is nothing truly unique here. The same lightsaber battles at some moments look extremely dumb(of course, there also were "dumb" moments in prequel fights, but altogether they were epic, they were amazing and backstage reels only proved that both Ewan Macgregor and Heyden Kristensen spent a lot of time with sabers to be called jedi Knights in real life.
It especially makes "critics" like Patrick praise the Disney Trilogy for doing cinematography and other features like using a lightsaber as a light source, were done in the Prequels.
Which puts him and others like him to be questioned as they out themselves in their lack of film literacy; especially when some don't understand the 180° rule.
@@strategicperson95 So true. The Disney Trilogy always stole stuff. And the cheorgraphy of the duels is terrible.
If I had to guess it is likely the sequels will have more liking later on but I think the prequels and original trilogy will always come out on top, this is said because the sequels rely so much on the original movies for one and then people will watch the movies from episodes 1-9. The prequels as much hate as they got were written for a different gen so now that the generation it was made more came up the movies got more credit even though they had a lot before, this will happen for the sequels but to a much lesser degree
Gotta highly disagree. It’s got nothing to do with generations. I was born well after the original trilogy came out and loved it even before the Special Editions came out. I loved the prequels. Nothing is wrong with them that makes them unwatchable, and the novelizations remove even those flaws. The sequel trilogy, on the other hand, is just bad in every category you could care to name. The music isn’t nearly as good, the jokes are Marvel-level bad, the bad parts of the dialogue are just outright bad and not “fun” bad, and the story is a disaster both in isolation and when connected to the previous six films, and that’s before you get into how it breaks the lore. Anyone that steps away from it for a bit will quickly realize that it is at best a guilty pleasure (I’ve got my own). The sequels aren’t like a number of films that were actually good but didn’t find an audience until well after their theatrical runs were over. The sequels are and will always be bad films. There’s nothing to really go back to with them.
I watched the movies first (except RotS - I'm not sure in what order though) and enjoyed them lots
_BUT_ the weekly airing of two Clone Wars episodes (& starting in 2015-ish endless TH-cam videos, I guess) turned me into a real hardcore Star Wars fan :)
There is no way the sequels will gain the traction over time. Merchandising alone should scream failure as sequel figures can still be found in discount stores. The prequels also had the advantage of The Clone Wars expanding on them since 2008 till relatively recently is significant. Resistance definitely sucked and even kids knew it. The failure of Galaxy's Edge should also explain a lot. Nobody cared to dig deep to see knock off Stormtroopers or any of the related characters. The one thing you didn't mention in the video is the influence of Star Wars parents on their kids. I doubt there will be nearly as many sequel parents to do that.
Its like you said. The mando-verse will be this generation’s Star Wars
The prequel trilogy was someone's loving creation. You can see that passion in those movies. The sequels (or at least 7-9) are made with a much greater passion for what was than what is, and appeal most to people who are nostalgic for the OT. Nobody who made the trilogy loves the entirety of it, and the people who made it are afraid to market it and reference it.
Also, the prequels are legitimately good and well written movies. You can't say that about any of the sequels.
I never acknowledged the Disney sequel trilogy as canon. The New Jedi Order book series to me was the Star Wars sequels
I don't plan on ever revisiting the sequels, because there's literally nothing interesting about them in my opinion, and I've never seen a single episode of the Clone Wars. And I've always loved the prequels, for me personally they are as great as the original trilogy, even better in certain ways.
I don't get why people need to look for such explanations why people love the prequels. I get so tired of hearing people who actually love the prequels constantly saying ''The prequels may be flawed, but...'' as if it's not completely accepted in our society to just simply love certain movies or as if the original trilogy doesn't have some significant flaws. In fact every movie I've ever seen is flawed, but Star Wars episode 1-6 just happen to be some of my favorite movies of all time.
The Clone Wars is what really allowed me to like the prequels. It was the first Star Wars content I viewed and like you mentioned many people including me watched the prequels because of it. I think the big difference is the prequels had a lot that could be built off of, and George clearly had a lot of ideas for the show. Disney though? Im not really sure. The sequels are so slapped together that I am not sure what they can do.
Disney had no plan for the Sequel Trilogy, other than ruining the OT characters in every conceivable way. They succeeded, which is why I spit upon them for trying! And you're right. There is nothing to build off of, because there was no plan from the clowns who dare to call themselves "The Lucasfilm Story Group!"
Prequels were a good story bogged down by weird execution, the sequels are a pitiful, disjointed story barely held together by decent presentation. What happens in 30 years when "modern" graphics look outdated and they have to stand on their merits?
I was 10 when I went to see TPM in the cinema, so I'm definitely from the Prequel generation. But while the prequels were coming out, I grew to know and love the Original Trilogy too. By the time RotS came out, I was old enough to be able to start to critically analyse things. I thought the film was pretty rubbish at the time, although I still enjoyed it. I just remember laughing at the cheesy dialogue in the cinema on repeat viewings.
Wasn't really particularly invested in Star Wars until the Disney films were about to be released. TFA was a very isolating experience because I hated it but there was a lot of love for it at the time. Loved Rogue One. Left the cinema after TLJ furious with anger. Didn't bother to watch Solo or TRoS (still haven't to this day).
Recently, I've come to appreciate the Prequel Trilogy for what it was trying to achieve, no doubt helped by The Clone Wars series. I still think they're pretty bad films in their execution and a massive missed opportunity. Controversially I think TPM is the best of the lot. But the story they tell and the world building is excellent. The fall of the Republic and the rise of Palpatine feels like a fairly realistic take on the death of democracy in a fantasy setting. One of the original criticisms of the PT, that there was too much politics, in hindsight couldn't be more wrong. The politics is an essential component of Star Wars.
I can't see anyone following a similar arc to come to appreciate the sequels, because there is nothing in them to be appreciated. They set out to achieve nothing except to milk a franchise (and in Rian Johnson's case, to be edgy and "subvert expectations"). Political nuance was replaced by a cliched "Nuremberg Rally" scene to let you know that the First Order are naughty bad people. I don't see how any amount of retconning or TV show tie-ins could possibly change that.
I was 9 when Episode 1 came out and loved it. I was disappointed with 2 & 3 from when they came out to 2021. In 2021 I watched the clone wars and rewatched the prequels and I found myself appreciating them so much more. I started to get behind the real political drama that was happening and a times how it mirrored the real life politics happening. I cannot imagine that I am gonna do the same with the sequels. I am also thinking that everything in the current Disney+ era is just working to fix the storylines of the sequels.
Everyone is allowed to like and dislike things to their choosing, but I'm tired of this sentiment that the prequels are "objectively bad" movies or were poorly made. Rick Worley's documentary on the prequels should be required viewing when it comes to properly judging those films. He goes into great detail explaining George's inspirations and aspirations when making the trilogy, and how they connect all 6 films into a modern day epic. A ton of the "flaws" that prequel detractors bring up are usually nitpicks, heavily opinionated, or actually served a purpose on George's end. Be it referencing his idols throughout cinema history or emulating the dialogue style of antique film/serials, or even just staying consistent with his own worldbuilding since Star Wars is, after all, set a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. This may be corny but honest to God, George Lucas Star Wars is a glorious passion project that literally changed cinema and modern-day storytelling as we know it, and that includes episodes 1-3. Rick Worley put it best, they really were better movies than we deserved.
Another argument regarding The Clone Wars is that the prequels, love 'em or hate 'em, provided a lot of material for TCW to expand upon, little intrigues that could be drawn out into larger story arcs etc ...
The sequels did not give that opportunity to The Resistance which is why, to me at least, it felt so empty and soulless.
The prequels were always popular when they came out. It's only a few internet haters that were loud about their opinions.
Some people were warning that the sequels were going to be bad, and those people were ignored.
It took be proven how poor they are for anyone to listen.
Disney's suicide will be remembered for all of time as 'not a bang, but a quiet and pathetic whimper'.
I was 13 when TFA came out, my brother was 9 and my cousin was 5, so between the three of us we probably spanned the age range targeted for the Sequel Trilogy. Post TLJ and TROS, my cousin (who initially liked the films) has now lost all interest in them but loves the Mandalorian and can’t wait for season 3 to come out, and my brother and I are happy to debate anyone who says the Sequels were good and the Prequels were bad, but then we grew up watching the Clone Wars.
I would say the next generation of Star Wars fans are probably more influenced by streaming services and TV shows than the movies. Clone Wars is my brother’s and my generation’s Star Wars, Mandalorian is my cousin’s; the sequels don’t get a mention, and any casual fans who said they enjoyed it initially either will join the hype train for the next big franchise or grow up and realise nostalgia won’t save them.
I was in high school when Phantom Menace came out. And in college during Attack of the Clones and working full time by Revenge of the Sith.
I loved them all at the time. PM was weak, and i didn’t like them as much as the OT, but i still loved them. Both Clone Wars series just made me love them more. Each time i watch any part of it, i love them more.
The ST… i really enjoyed TFA at the time, and on first viewing liked TLJ. But with each subsequent viewing i enjoyed them less, the TLJ took 2 viewings for me to go from thinking it was okay to despising it. TFA i only came to despise retroactively. And RoS just made it all even worse.
And now, i can’t enjoy any of the nee material like Mando, et al, because it all leads to RoS. Until the ST gets decanonized, i can’t enjoy any of the post RotJ timeline. And disney as done such a dismal job i don’t want them to touch ANYTHING before it more than they already have. Obi-wan was a train wreck. Bad batch is okay, rebels was good, rogue one was the best new star wars movie.
I’ll stick with Lucas Star Wars. Its good. Its fun. It speaks to people. Disney wars merely farts and calls it speaking to people.
You are totally right for Mando, i didn't care seeing Luke in season 2 final because of the sequels. The sad part is that Disney will not decanonize sequels and the story will just pile up... Everything what happens before Rotj is okay (Kenobi is meh at the best).
I like the way you describe the situation. DisиєУ has displayed tremendous arrogance in the face of fans' objections to their repeated artistic failures
and half-assed overall efforts. They insult our intelligence routinely. It's what they do.
I'm reluctant to watch the new shows myself, because it's been made clear that the Mandoverse is the highway to the Sequelverse. I prefer not to go there. So why get involved with any new shows? Sad, because theres some good work being done, but egos rule the decision making process, preventing good storytelling.
Anyway, great comment. You gave the new movies a real chance, and they ultimately failed you, me and countless others.
Got a similiar reception (and probably age) like you. To me I merge what is the canon, with few exceptions the best stories from Disney are before of Yavin, and the best of old EU is after Yavin, at least till the peace with the empire, bonus point, lot of silliness is left out. Now that is my head canon cause I got the best of both universes.
I’m going to preface this by saying I love the prequels and hate the sequels, so take my opinion with a pinch of salt!
I personally think that one of the reasons the prequels weren’t liked was because they were not enough like the originals, the overuse of immediately outdated special effects was also a factor, and maybe the fact that Anakin’s downfall happened a bit too fast also left some people bitter.
However when it comes to the story, it still makes sense, you can still draw a line from the Phantom Menace straight to Return of the Jedi and it makes one coherent story and plot. When you look at the Star Wars Saga (1-6) as the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker, it all works perfectly in my opinion, which is why it’s not as disliked now, people like myself have a louder voice as stated in this video, but also memes have played a big part, some people started liking the prequels ironically but soon found themselves actually enjoying them.
The sequels are different. The fact there was no plan for them is evident. Say what you like about the dialogue and direction of the prequels, at least they were all heading in the same direction. The sequels undid the perfect ending to Anakins story and for no reason other than to leave it with a much worse ending than before. Palpatine’s return was not thought out. Snoke’s death was a moment of impact rather than a decent plot point. The visuals and audio was obviously the best of the three trilogies, but that is it. In this day and age a film looking and sounding good is the bare minimum. I love the cast, they tried their best with what they had, and the hate they personally got was thoroughly undeserved.
If I had to sum up the sequels I would say it suffered from a lack of consistency (not just with story but with characters, their values and importance changed from film to film) and failed potential, the Force Awakens laid some lovely intrigue that the Last Jedi answered in a pitiful way, and then Abrams spent the last film in the trilogy childishly undoing Johnson’s pathetic input.
The issues with the prequels are cosmetic and can be more easily overlooked because of the quality of the story. The issues with the sequels are too deep rooted to allow me to enjoy them. If you remove TFA and TLJ then you lose nothing watching TROS and that for me is the sign of a poor overarching story.
Before clicking on this video, I predicted if he was gonna start the video with the word "Now" and I was right.
I have a cousin who was the same age when The Force Awakens came out as I was when The Phantom Menace came out. I remember talking with him about TFA and seeing him so excited, so drawn in to the world, discussing theories about Rey and Snoke and everything. And I never had a Star Wars conversation with him again. So I just assume he watched TLJ a couple years later and then just decided it wasn’t his thing.
The Disney trilogy did one thing that George Lucas was never able to accomplish. They made the prequels look good.
Y'all need to watch Rick Worley's documentary on the Prequels - absolutely fantastic. You'll realise the films are basically flawless and absolutely masterful.
🤣 well said
If kids are growing up loving the sequels, than the future is very bleak
My 12 year older friend ask me to put on Phantom Menace so I did. He really likes it. The originals not so much, sequels not even seen. I'm 46 years old, children to the end.
You also had the parents from the OT pushing and keeping their kids love going during TCW and PT. Not sure that holds with PT and OT parents bringing and kindling their kids love in the ST
It’s also worth noting that much of the Prequel hatred wasn’t “out-of-the-gate” hatred. Much of it came about nearly five to ten years _after_ they first came out. Ironically enough, it was more the talking figureheads about how “the prequels were bad” that drove more of the disdain for them than the Prequels themselves.
Nostalgia Critic and Red Letter Media are the big examples of this form of “hatred driven by the commentators” mentality as their content is heavily influential to those who often reference to how the prequels were bad; even over a decade after their made their content.
In other words, the Prequel hatred is not organic as much as it was created by the critics themselves through being viral sensations.
The sequels, by contrast, have a deeper, grassroots disdain as no one really talks about them nor cares about them after having torn them apart over the course of eight years (yes, it’s been eight years since the first sequel film came out). It’s also worth noting that the same prequel bashers tried to defend the films by intentionally downplaying their flaws by saying “but the prequels were worse!”
I feel like every generation that grew up with one era of star wars will hate the rest, as it will feel different to what they grew up with. Ot fans hated the prequels, prequel fans grew up then hated the sequels.
Boils down to one point. the prequels tell a phenomenal story, executed poorly for the most part whereas the sequels tell a poor story, dressed up with nice visuals and cinematography. The creators vision is clear to see throughout the prequel trilogy, whereas the sequels are devoid of any original ideas or direction and exist purely to recoup on an investment.
I enjoyed the Prequels when they came out (Darth JarJar head cannon). I've enjoyed the cartoons and even the early games, and honestly the sequels crushed me, we got so much good content after them though that I hope all the hate the sequels have gotten hasn't hurt the younger fandom.
From what I can tell, such support has quite some hurdles to go over considering not just reconciling the sequels to the rest of Star Wars, but also reconciling the individual sequel movies to each other.
But I always liked the prequels.
I'm close to you in age, and we have similar timelines with seeing/experiencing Star Wars. We also share similar views on the sequels.
When the prequels came out, I *loved* Phantom Menace so much I saw it 4x. Some people really hated Jar Jar. The biggest issue people I talked to had were about the whole "Immaculate Conception" thing and the midicholrians. This was my gripe.
Episode 2, I saw once, most people hyped up the Yoda vs Dooku fight more than anything else, and liked the way the ending set up the Empire. Most negative talk was about Hayden's acting.
Episode 3 I also only saw once. There was so much hype around the lightsaber duels and Vader donning the mask. Biggest complaints were the acting and some of the plot holes/inconsistencies. Also, Vader's "NOOOOOO"
All these years later, and I find myself wanting to rewatch the prequels to see if they still hold up in any manner. Yes, even Episode 2. 🤣
The sequels, even being 7/5/3 years old, I'm just tired of them. Yes, they exist. No, I didn't like them. No, I don't think my mind will change on it. I will use them for meme material, though. 🤷♂️
Episode 2 is better then after a rewatch
I think the “rising popularity of the prequels” is more like the rising popularity of the Fall of the Republic Era.
People don’t really like the movies more than they did before, but they do like the story more now that it has been better presented in various books, video games, and TV shows.
Yeah. I enjoyed the cinema experience of the prequel movies, but couldn't watch them afterwards. I even tried again recently after The Clone Wars to see if it affected my opinion but no, it just enhanced my view of the animated show and the amazing job it did with the same characters.
I think the only way to 'redeem' the sequels is a show that takes place a bit before TFA and ends before RoS. Something that adds bigger picture context ala Clone Wars or Andor. You can create some very deep and dark storyline. Imagine a plot-line where, for example, one of the Senators in the New Republic is a First Order sympathiser and leaves the capital planet just before it is destroyed by Starkiller base, but allows his family to stay behind to maintain his cover. What about the Jedi Order? Why not re-introduce Mara Jade in the middle of everything? Make Kyle Katarn cannon (albeit slightly aged down), as he helps Luke with the order, but takes a leave of absence to chase after his student that turned to the dark side (this, spoilers, is the Bad ending from Jedi Academy). Take any of the background characters and give them context. The possibilities are endless.
Of course, the obvious problem is obvious - this would require a TON of original thought and planning, but one could dream.
Episode 3 is great. Action from the start.
Not wanting to sound like I'm slamming the prequels. But we could only compare the prequels to the original. And it was arguably obvious that the original were better.
With the sequels we have two to compare them against. And by most accounts and opinions they come up short.
So I don't think that the sequels will rise to the acceptance level of the prequels. The prequels benefited from the sequels in that there was something less Star wars like to elevate them to second place.
Plus the prequels and OT toys sold during there releases while the sequel era toys are still collecting dust and clearance tags on its shelves.
The Prequels were improved with the Clone Wars, and Rebels, diluting the problems with the movies because they are part of a larger telling of the setting and characters. The same may happen with the Sequels with the interceding works like the Mandoverse, and possible Sequel sequels, but only time will tell. Check back around 2040 and we’ll know!
The genius of The Clone Wars was twofold. It flushed out and built complexity around the somewhat simplistic and often silly prequels. And it blended the prequels and original trilogy to form a seamless feel. Adding new Y-Wings off the assembly line, proto-ESB probe droids, etc made it feel like one long continuity that didn’t make you choose between PT and OT. It never covered up the prequel silliness but accepted it and said, for example, well yes Jar Jar is goofy but also more complex than the movies showed. He can have an entire arc with Mace one of the most serious characters and it still feels natural. The various supporting media post-sequels only ever feels like an apologist trying to lamely explain away inconsistencies, plot holes, and logic breaks instead of expanding and complexifying (Trademark BH) the movies they’re following.
The Prequels had complexity to them when the movies first came out. The issue was that the complexity was too much for the critics to understand.
I predict that the only Disney Star Wars thing I see being looked back on fondly from future kids will be the Mandalorian.
My five elementary kids have still not seen the Garbage Sequels…….
And we are going through the OT & PT again. I have to properly indoctrinate, I mean keep the joy of Star Wars alive.😎
I loved the prequels! My only complaint about them is the age difference between Anakin and the queen in the first prequel
It isn't that big of an age difference. He is 9 and she is 14.
While I wasn’t a big fan of some of the aspects of the prequels, I never hated them. They were original, expanded the universe and still felt like Star Wars. The Disney sequels felt off and wrong from the jump. The last Jedi truly was the beginning of the end.
Hey Thor, if you could create your own clone wars for the sequel trilogy what would it be?
It is quite simple actually. The Prequels didn't destroy the OT characters or the importance of the OT in general. The Sequels did.
Thor should release new vids every Thursday, then we can just start calling it Thor's Day again, since that's where the name originated in the first place.
Grew up with the prequels and didn't know thete are people hating the sequels. Love Ep8 for fixing Luke.
I think most of the hate is just clickbait anyways. There is no bad Star Wars yet.
Gen-x here. I hated the prequels primarily because of Jar Jar and Anakin's presentation. Anakin always appeared to be a bad person deep down and not the good person we were to believe existed in the OT. Also the big battle scenes seemed too "Lord of the Rings" for my liking with way too many Jedi. After AOTC, I stopped consuming all Star Wars content until TFA came out. I hear The Clone Wars fixed Anakin, but I only watch live action content. I should probably watch ROTS at some point...
PS: I liked TFA (not great but good), but then TLJ killed off characters with promise (Snoke, Phasma) along with presenting grumpy old Luke and letting him die. There really is nothing TROS could have done to fix the ST outside of retconning half of TLJ.
Older fans trashed on the prequels because they were too different from what they imagined. Younger fans who grew up during the prequel era liked them, until they were convinced by older fans not to. I don't think the ST was marketed to the current generation. It was mostly trying to appeal to those older fans of the OT with nostalgia.
If the Godawful Sequels really were intended to appeal to Ye Olde Fannes of Ye Olde Trilogye of Originne, then DisиєУ has failed in a truly spectacular manner.
Well, truthfully, regardless of the intended vict- er, audience, they comprehensively
failed.
i was a kid when the original series came out... i've watched both the prequels and sequels... i enjoyed all the movies... i'm 50 now... my favorites ones are still the originals, but will watch the movies in order...
I ALWAYS liked the prequels, Ep 1 not so much… but Ep 2 and 3 were on point for me.
And I was in my early 30s when they came out.
They are clearly movies that belong together and tell a coherent story, unlike the sequels.
I think you could say I was the prime demographic for the sequels, bring 15 when 7 came out. I saw all three in theaters, and I grew up with the prequels. I have a hard time watching the sequels now, but I can still endlessly watch the prequels. I don't think sequel lovers will take over; they are too few and far between.
There's nothing to go back to. The entire sequel trilogy is based off the idea of scorched earth. Ryan Johnson had the biggest effect but he wasn't the one who started it. The prequels despite their flaws gave you things to be amazed at.
The biggest proof we have is the SHEER amount of content we're getting from the sequel Era: Basically nothing.
I swear, they can talk about anything Star Wars and it's interesting and I can listen to it all day. Never let this channel go away.
There’s are some really glaring differences here: for all its “bad dialogue issues and green screen acting, the prequels had depth of story and cohesion. Not to mention an insane amount of world building. Look at how many great stories and characters that were born of those movies and that era. Whereas, the sequels… well, even JJ admitted that there was zero forethought, depth or direction to any of it. Therefore, it lacks the substance to stand the test of time. It is only relevant now; and mostly because of what a letdown it all turned out to be.
The difference with the prequels from the sequels is that there was a multimedia market for the prequels toys games shows books stickers something for everyone the sequels had a fortnite tie in....
As a kid during the early 2000s the only 2 costumes you would see during Halloween is captain Rex or darth Vader. I think that speaks for itself for the younger generation at least anecdotally
How do we know kids don't really care for the sequels?
Toys.
The sequels had no foundation to build upon. The prequels had the opposite.
I think one of the main reasons kids who grew up with the prequels like them is the amazing lightsaber fights and character moments which are definitely lackluster in the new trilogy
People need to watch Rick Worley's documentary on the Prequels - absolutely fantastic work, 2 hours of wondrous and enlightening analysis. You'll realise the films are basically flawless and absolutely masterful.
Most people won't enjoy a poop sandwich, no matter how perfect or masterfully made it is.
hardcore agree, love Rick Worley's take!
@@jakeaurod 🤓
@@jakeaurod That is a bad take. The Prequels are good.
@@emberfist8347 I'm not saying they aren't good enough, I'm implying they aren't perfect.
I also loved the Prequels despite it's Flaws...because it was STILL George Lucas! The Disney Sequels are NOT connected to the Previous 6 movies artistically...they are VERY different and distinct and don't blend with George Lucas's storytelling! That's not gonna change regardless how much time ⌚ changes.
You have provided rational and thoughtful evaluation of a hot topic that normally evolves into semi shouting matches. If the divided Star Wars fandom are all Sith Lords, this video makes you a Jedi knight
The prequels had a cohesive story that followed through all 3 movies, being Palpatine's rise to power and Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, and both of those stories intersected and reached their climax in the 3rd movie of the trilogy. The sequels don't have an overarching story like the prequels which is what makes the prequels enjoyable. Even in those moments where dialogue isn't delivered well or the CGI looks bad, we can think about the larger story being told. The sequels don't have that, which is why I doubt they will eventually get the love the prequels have gotten.
Perhaps what I'm about to say is a bit blasphemous, maybe even a cardinal sin, but I was a young child who was being guided through the trilogies.
The first star wars movie I ever saw was episode one, followed by two, then three, then four through six. I LOVED the prequels, and the originals! Seeing them in that order as a kid I could never understand the hate toward them.
Now as an adult I love them just as much and they hit my nostalgia note on top of it.
The sequels I disliked immediately. 7 to me right away laid the blacktop for shitty platitude of a trilogy, then episode 8 just sealed it and kicked me right in the dick .
Don't know if I would be considered a prequel kid--I was 9 at the time Phantom Menace came out. I'd already developed a love of the originals, and although I didn't hate them, I definitely preferred the original trilogy. I feel like they hold up better overall. However, I think the Clone Wars tv show was definitely instrumental in redeeming the prequel era. And that is the difference between the prequels and the sequels so far. There is not yet any meaningful push or plan backing the sequels because the sequels were FOUNDED on no plan--only marketing. Which is why they meander and are generally forgettable. The prequels were based on a (more or less) cohesive story that had debatable execution. The sequels were a pure cash grab with no soul or sense behind them, and those kind of things rarely have the staying power necessary to span generations. Add to this the fact that our world is bombarded with all kinds of media that crowds out legacy franchises with the young, and I hardly think the sequels have much of a chance.
The prequels were criticized. The sequels were straight up hated.
The prequels also got a boost from people comparing them to the sequels. Unless Disney puts out something even worse than the sequels, they're not going to get that help.
Before I even watch this, I believe the prequels found its love after the clone wars. The clone wars show brought more to the characters. Unless Disney can find a way to make a new republic show, I don’t see them getting as many people to turn around and like it.
Wasn't the New Republic vaporized in the first half of the first ST film? What world building could they do that anybody would want to be invested in? I suspect this is the same reason the PT film take place on Naboo and not Alderaan.
@@jakeaurod exactly. Nothing can save sequels