"Have yourselves a wonderful, and fully available, rest of your day." Unintentionally brutal reminder of my own mortality right there, thanks Nick! Time: the cruelest limited edition of them all... ;)
Everything nowadays is either LE or some kind of drop in general. No matter what hobby. Even military gear like chest rigs are now being sold as drops. Total bs.
We can limit them. Stop buying them. Let the scalpers buy them up & let the novices pay their inflated prices. They are not good for the health of the hobby in my opinion.
Great idea OG, but in my 66 years, one thing I'm sure of, trying to get people to be involved in ANY kind of solidarity? It's a losing cause. As consumers, most people have no idea the power they can wield, and the changes that could made to happen if we'd all just stick together. I've yet to see it, but who knows maybe times will get hard enough for it to happen someday. Happy Holidays
Blade Trade I’m no spring chicken either (61) and really only meant that myself - individually - and anyone who agrees with it can just ignore the entire purposefully-elusive marketing approach. Didn’t see myself as leading a movement or anything. It’s a fad and will run its course more or less. I do try to explain to friends about how I perceive it not being a wonderful boon for the industry. Might have changed a mind or two & I’ve hopefully learned to appreciate the other side of the coin though not necessarily agreeing with it. Really appreciate the holiday greetings and hope that you & your family have a wonderful one as well! Best regards.
Castle Bravo I sold my Ferrari a few years ago. Too much of a maintenance money pit without enough fun. Regarding you getting one: it can happen if you’re dedicated to making it happen. Best of luck to you.
@@ogenmatic You didnt have an F40, and if you dont know the difference between "a Ferrari" and an F40 then i have a hard time believing you've had either.
As a friend on IG said "plenty of beautiful fishes in the sea". That's what to think when missing a LE... There's so much good stuff around today that the money not spent will go towards something else as good.
I'm with you. I wanted that Micarta Shaman so badly. I've been deep in the knife community since 2004, and this has always been a problem. I think it's worse now than ever. It sucks that Spyderco, literally my favorite brand, is probably one of the worst offenders.
@Joe Perry @NickShabazz They have plans to make another micarta shaman with a steel contemporary to Cru-wear. And they often have continuous stock of sprint-run esque versions like s110v and maxamet. So I feel like they actually make up for it with those, as well as the sheer amount of sprint runs, and in turn become better than other companies . However, I agree with all of Nick’s views on this subject. Especially the Demand Oriented Batches. If @Spyderco Inc adopts a similar system for more sprint runs, I believe they would find a lot of success. The biggest flaw in this line of thinking, however, is that factories can only make so many knives at once. I’d wager this could be an issue. This problem is based on several comments made by Sal and Eric Glesser themselves when asked about producing certain models in specific factories like Golden Colorado or Seki City Japan. So Demand Oriented Batches could result in fewer variations overall but more steady availability for those models. Trade-offs.
Ebay flippers have pretty much driven me from the Hobby. It's funny but cooling it for 6 months has cured me of the whole collecting mess.The key is self control.Nice rant Nick ... 😎👍
I totally agree with you. I really hate the fomo, and limited run products that prey on it. Especially when it is for things I don't actually need, but merely want. When it comes down to it, many of these limited runs could actually sell far more units if they would just produce them. Cutting sales short because you refuse to make more of a saleable product is just bad in a business sense.
I completely stopped knife collecting because of crap like this. I got so tired of the instant sellouts and FOMO driving sales. I don't need that stress in my life. So good job knife makers, you're pushing your community away.
AugustWest yeah, I’m considering selling off my collection at this point. I got completely turned off by the savage community and now these knives sit and collect dust and make me sad.
Man it's like you were my voice. Thank you for this. I got a Shaman M4 and couldn't bring myself to use it. Every limited edition I snagged I could never bring myself to use. So I sold them all. And flippers are just the worst.
Nick, you make very valid points, this indeed hurts community members and might just drive people out of the hobby. I was listening to every point you made and nodding my head in agreement, as if you took the words from me, especially after the shit storm that came with the special release of the “Lime green” PM2 on the 12th. You also have a responsibility here, being an influential member of the community, let our voices be heard through you, always speak about this point especially that a lot of us don’t consider collecting a “hunt” and we aren’t in it for the “rush”.you might also want to refrain from reviewing such editions, because, and I guarantee this, several thousands of us go out searching for a certain knife immediately following a positive review from you.
The problem is false expectations. People put away these "limited editions" in drawers, expecting the value to increase in the years to come, but unless quality and scarcity are involved...most of these knives' value never keeps up with inflation. Only idiots are ever expecting to get rich from their knife collection. Knives are tools, meant to be used and anything else just makes the knife companies wealthy.
Oh no. Big Cutlery is knocking at my door with their greedy corporate capitalist pig conspiracy to force me to buy enthusiast pocket knives. My wallet, it's being violated! Help! Help! Comrades!
You know what limited editions have done for me. Made me move into customs. If I’m gonna have to search and search and pay through the nose I may as well get a custom.
My solution to limited editions is that if I'm buying something then I'll get the available edition I like. My frustration is when there's a serious change in an edition, like the 0456cf, I like the idea of a lighter weight 0456 but why's it such a pain in the dick to buy?! I'm mostly cool with different steels, mostly because once we pass s30v I'm no longer picky about steels. But when the color or steel Sprint run comes by I don't mind too much. I don't love it, but I understand how and why they do it - FOMO plus minimum order quantity/ not having stuff sitting on shelves. Nick - on a different note I'd love a video on best knives for putting in work, or a philosophy video on it. I'm a firm believer that a box/mat knife is the best knive for the job about 90% of the time (for people working indoors) and a para3 fills in the void. For legitimate work a Milwaukee fastback and a para3 will cover every cutting task that a knife is the right tool for. Just my rant for the day. I'd also really love some kind of reviews on box knives but I've got a fetish for replaceable blades ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Happy holidays and stay sharp
I am relatively new into the knife world and this is my biggest issue....I love the look and feel of the CRKT Pilar but I can't bring myself to get the 8cr13mov version but I also can't get a hold of the d2 or the s35vn versions. This limited run trend is exhausting.
Nick, please keep the philosophical rants coming! I have listened to this rant five or six times. My daughter enjoyed it thoroughly too. She is not into knives; however, recognized the trend in her hobbies too. In 2020, I am refusing to purchase any knives from a great knife company that starts with "S" due to their limited editions. They really do not want to make their knives available to the public but want to limit them to a few special people. Why hassle with this limited edition crap? There are other knife companies that want to sell knives and they actually make their popular models in various desirable blade steels.
Well said! If a company makes a certain configuration of a knife and it sells like hot cakes wouldn’t it be economically viable for the company to keep making that configuration until they are no longer selling?
How about $50 - $100 to enter "customization mode" and then add on the cost of chosen blade steel and handle material / in-lays? Seems like a fair deal for the big boys like spyderco, benchmade, etc. I'd be willing to wait a month or six for my custom spydie chef.
Idid the exact same thing, even ordered the deep carry pocket clip to have on hand to be ready. So now there is no interest in one even if was less than one hundred dollars!!!
I have 2 coldsteel holdout I's that have been discontinued since like 2016 i looked at the price on ebay for one today and it was 260$ im sure in a few more years the price will be even more absurd
Yup, agree100%. Many of us have to save up a bit to afford the price of a decent knife these days, and you make that final deposit, and you’re excited like you used to be the night before Christmas, and you log on, and it’s no longer available. It’s frustrating. It’s annoying. It sucks. It makes me angry. It makes me sad. It makes me lose interest in the brand, or even actively start disliking them. I really, really hope the manufacturers watch your videos, and take notes. Lots of notes. You’re doing great work with these “philosophical” rants, thank you.
I can agree with this video. I have the crucarta shaman I traded for and it’s by far my favorite knife. It’s a shame not many other people can experience it, but I hear that spyderco will be introducing more Micarta options next year
I absolutely agree with you. I have gotten sick and tired of a limited edition selling out in 5 to 8 minutes. It has reached a point I won't even look anymore. It seems ebay hawks are driving it so they can make a bunch of money. How that guy wound up with 15 of the things to auction is frustrating to say the least. If a knife sells very fast the company either has no idea what they are doing or plain don't care about most consumers. They should do a knife limited and numbered fine but if it sells out they should make a regular version for everyone else.
I ran into the same problem with the damascus McKenna from civivi. I waited until I had the money and was gonna get it for myself for my 21st birthday. But at that point it was sold out. And I mean it may come back but I'm starting to think it was just a sprint run which really just kinda bums me out and annoys me quite a bit. I ended up going with my second choice (the Plethiros in damascus) and its definitely a great knife, but I do really wish I could have gotten the damascus McKenna.
I don't mind if a sprint run is done to commemorate a special event (like a knife available at a trade show) or anniversary (I received a 50th anniversary small buck lockback as a gift years back), but when it's done strictly to create scarcity it bothers me.
How would you feel about a limited edition where there was only a small change in handle material? Like G-10->Micarta or aluminum->titanium. I feel like it wouldn't be much different than having a limited edition color because it's not really a big enough change to affect its usability as a tool, but I'm sure a LOT of people would get mad if they missed out on a special Micarta version. I'm not saying I wouldn't prefer the nicer handle material, but I think it falls into a category of changes that are acceptable for sprint and limited runs.
That Shaman Micarta was a nightmare to find. I desperately want to use it but every time I open my drawer I pass it up because it’s so damn rare . So it’s a lose lose situation even if you got one. In a way Spyderco does lose out a bit because now when their is a new knife like the Shaman or the Native Chief I pass it up and wait for the sprint.
All you Ebay scalpers out there, raise your hands. No one? C'mon, I know there's gotta be a few out there who watch this channel just to keep up on the latest.
Nick, you are entirely right. It's artificial scarcity that operates on a psychological hack into our brains. I suppose the best one can do is not participate. Furthermore write to manufacturers about this very issue on making the limited editions. If the manufacturer comes out with a limited edition that is a real gem, they could easily do as you suggested, create another "edition" for commoners, that in reality is precisely the same knife but a different color (you said olive drab). Brilliant, simple, easy to do. Thank you, that was a top notch rant Nick. You're the best.
I used to have the "limited edition bug" and I eventually realized it ended up with me spending money on knives I wasn't using, so I gave up. Sold all the limited edition knives for a custom Medford and now I don't care anymore about sprint runs
Right up there with the pre-Black Friday ,after Black Friday , Pre- Cyber Monday, after Cyber Monday , Green Wednesday , pre-Christmas ,after Christmas sales. Blowouts , Flash Sales , limited time offers , Limited Editions. And don't forget Medicare enrollment ends December 7th..... lol 😁
Hey Nick, I am neither scalper nor sprint collector, but I do see the overall value of having limited editions and the like in the community-let me explain- As you said this limited ed trend spans most enthusiast and collector communities and sparks the same feelings across the board. This in my opinion is something that attracts new members, retains old members and is a sign of a healthy community at large and is not in fact harming it in any way. Many Individuals may get angry that they miss out on something special, like the crucarta shaman (I did) but the overall result is a community that demands innovation, creativity and quality which in turn drives producers to meet the standard. I think this is why we have incredible materials available to us now-if all we needed was a good reliable tool we would have stopped long ago. Killing a model on day 1 for one maker, may open the door(s) of other makers to fill the void, innovate and make something better. Limited editions are in my opinion the shooting stars in the night sky of the knife community that keep people hopefully looking up into the unknown, to capture a glimpse of something special.. but unlike a shooting star-you can keep a knife! Love ya Nick! Rant on.
Nice introduction, and explanation of, a counter-perspective! I do, however, believe that shooting stars only grant wishes to those who see them. And, in this instance, not enough people are able to enjoy or “see” these knives, collectors and users alike, when they sell out so rapidly. I, and many others, would certainly appreciate larger batches and/or multiple runs to accommodate for a larger chunk of the demand. Especially when considering the market for many of these runs is already restricted to us relative few of the community who care. And while I’m sure that limited editions do inspire others to innovate and fill the void, I also reckon that pure capitalistic competition between companies for a shot at the market share and individual passion are much bigger factors in the continual evolution and innovation of knives. I’d much rather the knives become orbiting comets that return to the sky with the same excitement each time than shooting stars that are gone forever after they burn up in the clouds. Or perhaps a meteorite would suffice that survives the burning atmosphere to have what little is left erode over time from slower processes and therefore retain its absolute finity. Thus allowing more the opportunity to enjoy or, in regards to knives, buy it. All this being said, I do believe limited editions have their place in the context of special occasions including, for example, anniversaries. Even still, it’d be preferable to have those variants continued absent of a number or marking that distinguishes the, let’s say, anniversary run from the less collectible runs that follow. This topic is broad and with many factors so I’ll leave it there to save myself from exhaustion. However, I feel it’s worth more discussion both among makers like Spyderco and consumers like us. To derail some, I’d like to share my thoughts with other consumers like you as well as makers like Spyderco on another platform. The official Spyderco forum. However, I ran into trouble creating an account on the site so I’ve yet to have the opportunity.
Braden great points, I especially enjoyed your meteorite metaphor, nice one lol. I do have to admit there is a very fine line between blatant FOMO marketing tactics ::cough:: Spyderco ::cough:: and a truly special piece. I agree wholeheartedly that anniversaries and the like deserve pieces that represent such achievements (I’m talking to you CRKT). Whatever the take away is from this discussion, I sincerely hope it sparks more conversation like this, glad to find that there is an ever deepening philosophy to this hobby, thank you for taking the time to reply. All the best, cheers!
Nice counter point with merit. Looking at Spyderco, however, they’re overdoing it. There is a new sprint or exclusive twice a month (or more). It’s gone beyond the saturation point and is having the opposite effect, at least on some of us. At the very least, I wish Spyderco would increase the minimum number required for an exclusive/sprint.
This is an amazing topic to tackle Nick. So many valid points. To be honest I hate the whole limited edition bs that you have touched on here. Thanks for addressing this subject. Your awsome! Thanks for keeping it real, for real lol. All the best. Till next time.
I have a nib cf Shaman for $300. Also have a Manix 2 cruwear, smooth g10, and a PM 2, m390, red g10. Not trying to rip anyone off like they do on ebay.
I think back to Hinderer Knives about five years ago. People were buying 300-400 dollar knives for 800-1000 bucks! That, however, was NOT a company generated FOMO. It was a matter of Hinderer being a small company that came onto the market with quality products that quickly became in very high demand. The company has grown significantly and with some patience you can now get the knife you want at normal retail prices for the most part. I wouldn’t touch one of their knives back then but now I’ve got a couple. But even that non-company generated FOMO ended up pissing people off because as production caught up, folks were now holding onto knives that they spent 800-1000 on that they couldn’t even sell for half of that. I respect the company because they didn’t cause the prices to soar. The retailers they were distributed through at the time though...hard for me to respect them for being the price gougers.
I agree completely about these "limited" editions. Another video "influencer" just gave a talk on wanting more limited editions, for the collectors out there, to allow more factory made collector knives. I've been a collector of EDC knives for many years, since I was 10 years old. But I am not a collector of safe queens, and as soon as a knife is issued as a "collector's piece" I believe an artificial situation exists. You said it better than I could, thank you for your common sense.
I normally agree with you Nick, but I actually thought you were joking on many of your points. People buy these sprints/exclusives/etc... its a fun thing to do. on many of the forums they make these points and it sounds like sour grapes for not getting it. there is a whole business side of this you are not addressing. Its expensive for DLT/BladeHQ/etc. to do these sprints. they are bringing combinations that are not going to be popular to the masses. by making a small run, some people will miss out, but its far better than having blades left over for companies that are taking a chance on offering these. it sucks not everybody gets one, but this drives variety because spyderco can't do all these combinations without these small runs.
Was this video at all in response to the KnifeJoy Green 20CV PM2? I snagged one when they dropped yesterday but heard a lot of people couldn’t refresh the page.
Are they doing any more runs of that pena? For the bhq victorinox runs, I like them bc it's celebrating the success of the youtubers in our small community.
My brother and I have over a hundred knives. We are so frustrated with spyderco over the micarta shaman we don't even want to keep buying spydercos now. Irritating.
As fun as limited editions can be... when you actually get one... I fully agree with this. The fact that I can’t get a 20cv PM2 for the fair price that they were still frankly pisses me off. Loved the color. Love 20cv. Love the PM2. It would have been a fantastic production knife for their permanent PM2 lineup. I know there are a couple on eBay but they go for too much and I’m not going to buy any knife on eBay. The PM2 20cv run is what ruined me on these limited editions. I think they made like 600 and they were sold out in less than a half hour. That, in my opinion, it BS.
I really wanted a Micarta Shaman and I preordered one from knifecenter.. months went by and just got an email that they can't fulfill my pre order so now I'll never get one. I ignored all other drops of them from different sites because I thought I had one secured. I can see the appeal to limited editions, I have a few myself including the St. Nicks 4v shaman. Some like the Shaman I really wanted and some I bought because of FOMO so it definitely gets people to buy things that they might not have if they were readily available.
Feel the same way. I see no point in dropping money on a knife you’re afraid to carry because they’ll never make anymore. If I buy something I do so with the intention of using it, limited or not. I used to get amped up about the Spyderco sprints like everyone else, but now they’re so frequent they’ve practically become white noise. I’m completely numb to the whole sprint thing at this point.
In CRKT's case they lost money. Many more than 500 of those would have sold. They shot themselves in the foot. I'm afraid the PM2 tanto point will be a sprint. Those would sell like crazy.
...Claiming that limited editions create scarcity is some mental gymnastics level logic. I don't even see how you made that connection. Limited editions are in addition to the regular line. Anyone that thinks that's "scarcity" needs their head examined and some introduction to grade school level math.
As somebody who is getting into knifes or really anything now days I do my research and find one I like only to find out is they are not available. So annoying
Dude. Preach on. Long time follower. Edit: seriously love you man. No shilling for any brand. It’s a problem for real. It’s crazy because I feel people would buy 2 limited edition and just post both in a single pic on a FB fan page just so they can get the approval AND hate of their fellow peers. I think that feeling is probably a mental addiction.
I used to be an avid sneaker buyer but got so washed out from seeing an oversaturated market of limited drops or exclusives. I moved from aesthetic to functionality and shortly I was more interested in knives/multitools. A few months in however, I found myself once again starting to lose interest just because I started to see the same trend with limited exclusives as the selling pitch. I personally believe that performance and functionality should be the main selling pitch instead of these limited runs, especially in this market.
Ive never been so mad about anything as i was about that micarta cruwear shaman. Pre orderd it on like 8 diff sites months before it dropped. Was in raffles and lotterys. Still dont have one. Am still mad.
LOL the Homefront was only $295 but the CRKT XDC limited edition is &750 !!! At that price I'll throw a few bucks more in and get on the list for a Norseman 😊🔪 I'm 60 years old and there's never been a time I NEEDED a $900 knife to complete a job. It's all just empty desire driven by hype. Sure if I had money to waste I'd probably waste it on an expensive knife I really don't need but in the practical world it's nice to watch the reviews and look at the product.
Mitch Feghaly “Growing toxicity of the hobby.” Agreed. Between this trend (cough...Spyderco...cough) and the Chinese invasion, 2019 really turned me off. Sadly, I predict those two trends will continue, if not worsen, in 2020 & beyond.
Claiming "toxicity" in this day and age is a warning sign. And often an ill-formed opinion based on confirmation bias at that. I don't see how limited editions themselves could be the issue - and it isn't. It's dealers, and a small cadre of unscrupulous people. Y'know, like how it is with most things, the very small percentage of bad eggs ruin it for the other vast majority. And I take issue with you blaming an object over these people. You're effectively being part of the problem then.
matchesburn lol how does claiming that artificially inflated secondary prices driven by manufacturers limiting production of superior pieces make me part of the problem? That behavior does drive the basis of a toxic marketplace. Lol nice try but I think we are arguing the same point
@Castle Bravo They are unscrupulous people. They are attempting to artificially control the market. That is, by definition, market manipulation for personal profit. Whether you buy knives or limited editions or not has no bearing on that - regardless of what YOU do, they are still unscrupulous people attempting to game the market. That is immoral even if you don't buy knives whatsoever.
@@xerotrace2251 "lol how does claiming that artificially inflated secondary prices driven by manufacturers limiting production of superior pieces make me part of the problem?" You just answered your own rhetorical question: because it's the secondary market resellers and scalpers that are causing that. Not the knives. Not the company making them. The resellers trying to manipulate the market for profit. Blame them. Not the knife or the company making it. ...In fact, unless you have conclusive and iron-clad proof that companies are directly involved in this charade and scheme (and, no, "We let people that have money buy as many knives as they can afford. It's not our place to judge who can buy them." is not "directly involved in market manipulation"). Which... well... good luck. Because that doesn't make much sense from a business perspective. I can guarantee you the ammunition scalpers I saw from ~7 years back weren't working with ammunition companies to manipulate the market for reselling. And considering knives are an even smaller market with fewer purchasers and there's no shortage - artificial or otherwise - of knives... I don't see that being a likely outcome. "That behavior does drive the basis of a toxic marketplace" Toxic in this day and age carries baggage associated with it. Toxic implies something that is contagious, infectious or spreading in a community and is often used in that vein to counter things like "toxic ideas" or "toxic people" or "toxic behavior" as if we need to quarantine ourselves from it in a community. Hence when you use "toxic," I only see hear klaxons going off. It's the same way with words like "problematic" or "micro-aggression" or "racist" being bandied about. Often it's anything but an accurate portrayal of a community and just serves someones own personal bias. Even if that is put aside, let's look at the reality: pocket knives are a very small market to begin with. The limited edition market for that is even smaller. The people reselling limited edition knives at inflated prices are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the community. And if you truly think such a small group that is so easily avoided is such an issue... That's one hell of a mountain from a very small -mole- anthill you're making.
They can make more, it just won't be numbered and certified, retaining the value. I agree though that if you're going to do a numbered edition, either combine it with a coin, a box and engrave something in the knife that makes it special, that makes it a beauty to show off on the shelf, then make 50 thousand of the same thing with all the same qualities but without the special platinum whatever
I would love to have at least 2 choices of steel if possible (Economy and premium); at least on the more popular designs. It seems like most of the more rugged blade steel versions are going straight into collections, never to be used, and that is very sad.
Spyderco made a lot of sprint runs. I suspect this situation also hinders them from upgrading their steels. Like, if they upgrade all Seki City models to SG-2, those people who bought an Massdrop exclusive would be pissed. But on the other hand, Spyderco is known for trying new steels, put them into public testing in the form of sprint runs. To my knowledge, no other production company would dare to try something like Maxamet, Rex 45, K390, SG-2, V-toku 2, Curwear, especially in the same platform so we can discuss the difference of steels (and I'm guessing those steel have availability problems, too). And that's very necessary, I'd say. Currently we would agree the edge retention of LC200N is around the level of S30V, while I remember clearly just last year in a Spyderco meeting Eric said LC200N is at AUS-8 level, lower than 440C. So there's a big difference between their lab test result and real world performance. That's the bright side. On the dark side, I understand people get mad about not having a chance to get one sprint run, and Spyderco's hunger marketing is pretty ugly, but honestly, a bunch of speculators are also responsible.
I agree, they can do a limited edition and make it special in a thousand waves. For collectors just the certified number is all that matters. It's actually counter productive, literally in the most precise meaning of the word.
I fully agree, but there are some companies out there that do handle this correctly in my opinion. I was thinking specifically of Böker, they have for instance released this year for their 150th anniversary a Limited Edition Barlow (model 100600, 150 were made) with a Chad Nichols damast blade made from the original steam engines from the Böker factory, but they also sell a 'standard' Barlow (model 100501) which is available anytime anywhere.
As a recent purchaser of a Lime Green 20cv PM2, I'd like to offer a counterpoint. Functionally proven PM2 anatomy, considerable material upgrade, fun color, $2 more than the "base model"... while I'm sure not a loss leader, this was an extreme value relative to primary market offerings. Aslo, I got lucky and scored a Crucarta Shaman... so now you know 3 of us!
Oh, absolutely, that one was a great deal. And if KnifeJoy turned around and said "Don't worry, the next batch of these will be coming in July, and we'll have twice as many", that's awesome. But 500 and done? Ugly.
I've always wanted a Spyderco Worker, if only because of the history associated with it. And hey, Spyderco released it again.....as a sprint run. By the time I found out they re-released it, it was too late.
When DLT trading put the PM2, m390, red g10 up for sale, their server crashed. I spent the next hour and a half refreshing their page every ten seconds and finally got one, now trying to sell it, and not for ebay ripoff price. Also have the cf Shaman, s90v, and Manix 2, cruwear, smooth g10.
Agree with you Nick, DLT ticks me off they always have their sale at 2PM doesn’t anybody have to work, I work outside, and they say limit 2 why not limit one, works great for scalpers not their customers
The human brain is a complex organ with the wonderful power of enabling man to find reasons for continuing to believe whatever it is that he wants to believe. So ..loose the limited edition , signature line, exclusives and all the other stuff that tends to make most people unhappy. Great topic !!
I have a psychological thing where if I really like a knife and it’s either not made anymore or is not making sales so you have the idea it won’t be around much longer, I won’t use it, or will get more than one so I can use one and keep the other one in case I lose or break it. It’s tiring and that’s why I stay the hell away from limited. Glad I’m not the only one who feels this way about the community.
Great video sir. I’m torn on limited editions personally. I have daily carry knives and collection knives. So for me I do like some limited editions for the collection. So I’m 50/50
Hi, Nick. Great vid. Hit the like once again on title alone. Didn't chance my mind after the vid. The one thing that I didn't totally agree with is the notion that a sprint run is by definition a less useful tool. I think that it can be for some people, maybe even most people. But I think of Spyderco and I will admit that Spyderco is one of my favorite manufacturers...and by far the worst sprint run violator. I love the Delica, but she is not a great value at $80 with FRN scales and VG-10 steel. But just a couple bucks more, an S30V version was available. Now she is more of a value. I have the M390 and Cru-Wear versions both around the price of the Giant Mouse Iona, making them very compelling in my estimation. I missed out on many more, which I would love to have. And some, like the S90V version, I am not interested in because I am not crazy about the blade steel and that price is $120. So I don't buy it just because it is a sprint run. But there are times when a Spyderco creates an intersection between upgrades and value. I do wish their production batches were closer to demand.
Thanks Nick! Totally agree. That Cru Wear Manix is nice and some people on eBay trying to get over $400 for it. I don’t like how it’s so hard to get a Strider nowadays too. I guess it’s smart tactic to keep demand high just like Rolex does. I don’t get why Spyderco does this tho. I feel like they would make a lot more money if they just made production cru wear shamans instead of the s30v ones; similar to how the Benchmade superfreek isn’t a sprint run.
My problem with limited editions and sprints is that it proves companies like Spyderco *can* target the higher end... and they generally don't want to. I would gladly have that Para3 Lightweight in M390 if I could get one, and if I could rely on continual support for it.
I had notifications set up on BladeHQ’s website for when the micarta Shaman became available. Since thousands of people were interested, they had to do a lottery. It was exciting till I didn’t win. 😢 I really enjoy the channel and even these rants because of your honesty. Please keep being you. Respect. 👊🏻
I don't like limited editions, and I don't want knives I own to become so valuable that I question using them. Little makes me happier than to discover an *underhyped* knife (current favorite: the Ti/M390 Real Steel Megalodon) I can pick up cheap on the used market and use the crap out of. I'm glad to see that Massdrop has started simply *selling* knives, at least for some models. I could see some value in a hybrid approach where it's limited and sold drop-style unless it sells quickly. I'm still waiting for tracking to update on my $40 Gent though.
I strongly agree Nick. I love M390 and it's equivalents...so I wanted the latest para 2 drop. I do not care enough to sit on the PC and score one of a tiny number. And I NEVER buy a used knife or a NIB from anyone. They just won't get my money. I love Spyderco knives...but the Shaman debacle and other factors have caused to me to buy 6 ZT knives. None are special editions and all are Sinkevich. And half of them are 20CV. At some point you would think manufacturers would discern they are pissing off loyal customers by offering what they really want in a limited way...causing said customer to go elsewhere. It turns out, I really like ZT. They sell what I want. Simple, eh?
I agree with most of what you said, but while I haven't purchased a sprint run from Spyderco due to financial concerns, I disagree slightly on sprint runs of production knives. Having short sprint runs allows a company like Spyderco to offer their designs in more flavors and materials than they could if they just kept the sprint runs in longer production. However, I do absolutely agree that they should make an effort not to make the runs so small that it creates artificial exclusivity. Also while I do agree that they should never commit to a "one and done" run, I don't necessarily think they need to commit to a second run from the outset either, unless there isn't a similar quality full production version.
Enrique Pena comment here about his front flipper trapper. I spoke with him directly at KYCKS, he said he only plans to have about 100 more made and then that'll be it, he said look out for them around February or March.
"Have yourselves a wonderful, and fully available, rest of your day."
Unintentionally brutal reminder of my own mortality right there, thanks Nick!
Time: the cruelest limited edition of them all... ;)
We are all limited editions, alas. May you sell out very slowly.
@jeff S Like Twinkies!
TH-cam showed me an ad for a limited edition watch before this video. Irony algorithms are working as expected.
This is a limited edition comment, enjoy it while you can.
I'm glad I got here in time to reply
This is my limited edition reply!
finally i got something that's limited!
Fuck fuck, how much can I sell it for on eBay?
Nick: rants about limited editions
Also nick: owns ALL the limited editions lmao
Except the shaman in cruWear witch inspired this video..
no he doesn't
Everything nowadays is either LE or some kind of drop in general. No matter what hobby. Even military gear like chest rigs are now being sold as drops. Total bs.
I thought you meant Lawful Evil when you said LE and I thought we were getting into some deep conversation about the morality of companies.
We can limit them. Stop buying them.
Let the scalpers buy them up & let the novices pay their inflated prices.
They are not good for the health of the hobby in my opinion.
Great idea OG, but in my 66 years, one thing I'm sure of, trying to get people to be involved in ANY kind of solidarity? It's a losing cause. As consumers, most people have no idea the power they can wield, and the changes that could made to happen if we'd all just stick together. I've yet to see it, but who knows maybe times will get hard enough for it to happen someday. Happy Holidays
Blade Trade
I’m no spring chicken either (61) and really only meant that myself - individually - and anyone who agrees with it can just ignore the entire purposefully-elusive marketing approach. Didn’t see myself as leading a movement or anything. It’s a fad and will run its course more or less. I do try to explain to friends about how I perceive it not being a wonderful boon for the industry. Might have changed a mind or two & I’ve hopefully learned to appreciate the other side of the coin though not necessarily agreeing with it.
Really appreciate the holiday greetings and hope that you & your family have a wonderful one as well! Best regards.
Castle Bravo
I sold my Ferrari a few years ago. Too much of a maintenance money pit without enough fun. Regarding you getting one: it can happen if you’re dedicated to making it happen. Best of luck to you.
@@ogenmatic
You didnt have an F40, and if you dont know the difference between "a Ferrari" and an F40 then i have a hard time believing you've had either.
As a friend on IG said "plenty of beautiful fishes in the sea". That's what to think when missing a LE... There's so much good stuff around today that the money not spent will go towards something else as good.
Exactly!
I'm with you. I wanted that Micarta Shaman so badly. I've been deep in the knife community since 2004, and this has always been a problem. I think it's worse now than ever. It sucks that Spyderco, literally my favorite brand, is probably one of the worst offenders.
@Joe Perry @NickShabazz They have plans to make another micarta shaman with a steel contemporary to Cru-wear. And they often have continuous stock of sprint-run esque versions like s110v and maxamet. So I feel like they actually make up for it with those,
as well as the sheer amount of sprint runs, and in turn become better than other companies .
However, I agree with all of Nick’s views on this subject. Especially the Demand Oriented Batches. If @Spyderco Inc adopts a similar system for more sprint runs, I believe they would find a lot of success.
The biggest flaw in this line of thinking, however, is that factories can only make so many knives at once. I’d wager this could be an issue. This problem is based on several comments made by Sal and Eric Glesser themselves when asked about producing certain models in specific factories like Golden Colorado or Seki City Japan. So Demand Oriented Batches could result in fewer variations overall but more steady availability for those models. Trade-offs.
You need a Nick Shabazz edition Z Hunter made
Gasosphere sounds like a Bat Masterson gun. I like it.
That would be a
" Shut up and take my money!" Moment
Just make it red and call it V(ampire) Hunter so it's UK legal.
Ebay flippers have pretty much driven me from the Hobby. It's funny but cooling it for 6 months has cured me of the whole collecting mess.The key is self control.Nice rant Nick ... 😎👍
I did the same with other hobbies I take a year away no reviews nothing about it and ya I don't want the things as much
I missed out on the Blade Forums GEC #86. Beautiful knife. Don’t know if they’ll ever do another run.
I totally agree with you. I really hate the fomo, and limited run products that prey on it. Especially when it is for things I don't actually need, but merely want. When it comes down to it, many of these limited runs could actually sell far more units if they would just produce them. Cutting sales short because you refuse to make more of a saleable product is just bad in a business sense.
I completely stopped knife collecting because of crap like this. I got so tired of the instant sellouts and FOMO driving sales. I don't need that stress in my life. So good job knife makers, you're pushing your community away.
Agreed. I think it's short term thinking which will hurt long-term sales.
I agree as well. The frustration pushes me away for sure. Bought way less this year and am feeling like there's no knives I want to chase anymore.
AugustWest yeah, I’m considering selling off my collection at this point. I got completely turned off by the savage community and now these knives sit and collect dust and make me sad.
Haven't watched the video yet, but yes
Man it's like you were my voice. Thank you for this. I got a Shaman M4 and couldn't bring myself to use it. Every limited edition I snagged I could never bring myself to use. So I sold them all. And flippers are just the worst.
did they make more of the homefronts? knifecenter and crkt both have them in stock
Nick, you make very valid points, this indeed hurts community members and might just drive people out of the hobby. I was listening to every point you made and nodding my head in agreement, as if you took the words from me, especially after the shit storm that came with the special release of the “Lime green” PM2 on the 12th. You also have a responsibility here, being an influential member of the community, let our voices be heard through you, always speak about this point especially that a lot of us don’t consider collecting a “hunt” and we aren’t in it for the “rush”.you might also want to refrain from reviewing such editions, because, and I guarantee this, several thousands of us go out searching for a certain knife immediately following a positive review from you.
TheDukeOfSaudi This is one of several ugly trends driving me out of the market.
As long as Limited Editions continue to generate sales companies will continue to do them...
I know, I'm a dreamer.
The problem is false expectations.
People put away these "limited editions" in drawers, expecting the value to increase in the years to come, but unless quality and scarcity are involved...most of these knives' value never keeps up with inflation. Only idiots are ever expecting to get rich from their knife collection. Knives are tools, meant to be used and anything else just makes the knife companies wealthy.
@@blueeyeswhitedragon9839 Iv'e never bought a knife I didn't use. They are as you said "tools".
@@michaelbyrd103 :- 100% in agreement
From an outside perspective I always saw this behavior as very cringy and consumerist even within a pretty consumption based hobby.
Oh no. Big Cutlery is knocking at my door with their greedy corporate capitalist pig conspiracy to force me to buy enthusiast pocket knives. My wallet, it's being violated! Help! Help! Comrades!
@@matchesburn I'm no red buster I'm just saying mindless consumption is a bad thing.
You know what limited editions have done for me. Made me move into customs. If I’m gonna have to search and search and pay through the nose I may as well get a custom.
My solution to limited editions is that if I'm buying something then I'll get the available edition I like. My frustration is when there's a serious change in an edition, like the 0456cf, I like the idea of a lighter weight 0456 but why's it such a pain in the dick to buy?! I'm mostly cool with different steels, mostly because once we pass s30v I'm no longer picky about steels. But when the color or steel Sprint run comes by I don't mind too much. I don't love it, but I understand how and why they do it - FOMO plus minimum order quantity/ not having stuff sitting on shelves.
Nick - on a different note I'd love a video on best knives for putting in work, or a philosophy video on it. I'm a firm believer that a box/mat knife is the best knive for the job about 90% of the time (for people working indoors) and a para3 fills in the void. For legitimate work a Milwaukee fastback and a para3 will cover every cutting task that a knife is the right tool for. Just my rant for the day. I'd also really love some kind of reviews on box knives but I've got a fetish for replaceable blades ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Happy holidays and stay sharp
I am relatively new into the knife world and this is my biggest issue....I love the look and feel of the CRKT Pilar but I can't bring myself to get the 8cr13mov version but I also can't get a hold of the d2 or the s35vn versions. This limited run trend is exhausting.
Nick, please keep the philosophical rants coming! I have listened to this rant five or six times. My daughter enjoyed it thoroughly too. She is not into knives; however, recognized the trend in her hobbies too.
In 2020, I am refusing to purchase any knives from a great knife company that starts with "S" due to their limited editions. They really do not want to make their knives available to the public but want to limit them to a few special people. Why hassle with this limited edition crap? There are other knife companies that want to sell knives and they actually make their popular models in various desirable blade steels.
@spyderco I want an M390 satin Manix 2 😭😭😭
Well said! If a company makes a certain configuration of a knife and it sells like hot cakes wouldn’t it be economically viable for the company to keep making that configuration until they are no longer selling?
How about $50 - $100 to enter "customization mode" and then add on the cost of chosen blade steel and handle material / in-lays? Seems like a fair deal for the big boys like spyderco, benchmade, etc. I'd be willing to wait a month or six for my custom spydie chef.
Couldn’t agree more. That last spyderco shaman sprint debacle pissed me off. Spent the money I had saved up for that shaman, and Bought a ZT instead!
Idid the exact same thing, even ordered the deep carry pocket clip to have on hand to be ready. So now there is no interest in one even if was less than one hundred dollars!!!
I’m glad I don’t have issues like that...valid rant by the way, but there is an obvious solution. DONT BUY LIMITED EDITIONs...PERIOD.
I have 2 coldsteel holdout I's that have been discontinued since like 2016 i looked at the price on ebay for one today and it was 260$ im sure in a few more years the price will be even more absurd
Yup, agree100%. Many of us have to save up a bit to afford the price of a decent knife these days, and you make that final deposit, and you’re excited like you used to be the night before Christmas, and you log on, and it’s no longer available. It’s frustrating. It’s annoying. It sucks. It makes me angry. It makes me sad. It makes me lose interest in the brand, or even actively start disliking them. I really, really hope the manufacturers watch your videos, and take notes. Lots of notes. You’re doing great work with these “philosophical” rants, thank you.
I can agree with this video. I have the crucarta shaman I traded for and it’s by far my favorite knife. It’s a shame not many other people can experience it, but I hear that spyderco will be introducing more Micarta options next year
Knife purchasing shouldn't have to be a competative skill, but it is which precludes customers from even trying.
Very well said.
I absolutely agree with you. I have gotten sick and tired of a limited edition selling out in 5 to 8 minutes. It has reached a point I won't even look anymore. It seems ebay hawks are driving it so they can make a bunch of money. How that guy wound up with 15 of the things to auction is frustrating to say the least. If a knife sells very fast the company either has no idea what they are doing or plain don't care about most consumers. They should do a knife limited and numbered fine but if it sells out they should make a regular version for everyone else.
I ran into the same problem with the damascus McKenna from civivi. I waited until I had the money and was gonna get it for myself for my 21st birthday. But at that point it was sold out. And I mean it may come back but I'm starting to think it was just a sprint run which really just kinda bums me out and annoys me quite a bit. I ended up going with my second choice (the Plethiros in damascus) and its definitely a great knife, but I do really wish I could have gotten the damascus McKenna.
I don't mind if a sprint run is done to commemorate a special event (like a knife available at a trade show) or anniversary (I received a 50th anniversary small buck lockback as a gift years back), but when it's done strictly to create scarcity it bothers me.
Also i think they are gunna do another run of the micarta shaman. Just a diff steel.
How would you feel about a limited edition where there was only a small change in handle material? Like G-10->Micarta or aluminum->titanium.
I feel like it wouldn't be much different than having a limited edition color because it's not really a big enough change to affect its usability as a tool, but I'm sure a LOT of people would get mad if they missed out on a special Micarta version.
I'm not saying I wouldn't prefer the nicer handle material, but I think it falls into a category of changes that are acceptable for sprint and limited runs.
That Shaman Micarta was a nightmare to find. I desperately want to use it but every time I open my drawer I pass it up because it’s so damn rare . So it’s a lose lose situation even if you got one. In a way Spyderco does lose out a bit because now when their is a new knife like the Shaman or the Native Chief I pass it up and wait for the sprint.
Great for collectors not so much for people that really want a certain combo in limited release hard to get sometimes.
All you Ebay scalpers out there, raise your hands. No one? C'mon, I know there's gotta be a few out there who watch this channel just to keep up on the latest.
Nick, you are entirely right. It's artificial scarcity that operates on a psychological hack into our brains. I suppose the best one can do is not participate. Furthermore write to manufacturers about this very issue on making the limited editions. If the manufacturer comes out with a limited edition that is a real gem, they could easily do as you suggested, create another "edition" for commoners, that in reality is precisely the same knife but a different color (you said olive drab). Brilliant, simple, easy to do. Thank you, that was a top notch rant Nick. You're the best.
I used to have the "limited edition bug" and I eventually realized it ended up with me spending money on knives I wasn't using, so I gave up. Sold all the limited edition knives for a custom Medford and now I don't care anymore about sprint runs
You are so right about the sprint run situation, I'm glad someone with influence spoke up, everyone with influence in the knife community should.
One of the best knife videos of the year. My vote is for a Spyderco Shaman 4V (non sprint run)
Right up there with the pre-Black Friday ,after Black Friday , Pre- Cyber Monday, after Cyber Monday , Green Wednesday , pre-Christmas ,after Christmas sales. Blowouts , Flash Sales , limited time offers , Limited Editions. And don't forget Medicare enrollment ends December 7th..... lol 😁
😂
Hey Nick, I am neither scalper nor sprint collector, but I do see the overall value of having limited editions and the like in the community-let me explain-
As you said this limited ed trend spans most enthusiast and collector communities and sparks the same feelings across the board. This in my opinion is something that attracts new members, retains old members and is a sign of a healthy community at large and is not in fact harming it in any way.
Many Individuals may get angry that they miss out on something special, like the crucarta shaman (I did) but the overall result is a community that demands innovation, creativity and quality which in turn drives producers to meet the standard. I think this is why we have incredible materials available to us now-if all we needed was a good reliable tool we would have stopped long ago. Killing a model on day 1 for one maker, may open the door(s) of other makers to fill the void, innovate and make something better.
Limited editions are in my opinion the shooting stars in the night sky of the knife community that keep people hopefully looking up into the unknown, to capture a glimpse of something special.. but unlike a shooting star-you can keep a knife!
Love ya Nick! Rant on.
Nice introduction, and explanation of,
a counter-perspective!
I do, however, believe that shooting stars only grant wishes to those who see them. And, in this instance, not enough people are able to enjoy or “see” these knives, collectors and users alike, when they sell out so rapidly.
I, and many others, would certainly appreciate larger batches and/or multiple runs to accommodate for a larger chunk of the demand. Especially when considering the market for many of these runs is already restricted to us relative few of the community who care. And while I’m sure that limited editions do inspire others to innovate and fill the void, I also reckon that pure capitalistic competition between companies for a shot at the market share and individual passion are much bigger factors in the continual evolution and innovation of knives.
I’d much rather the knives become orbiting comets that return to the sky with the same excitement each time than shooting stars that are gone forever after they burn up in the clouds.
Or perhaps a meteorite would suffice that survives the burning atmosphere to have what little is left erode over time from slower processes and therefore retain its absolute finity.
Thus allowing more the opportunity to enjoy or, in regards to knives, buy it.
All this being said, I do believe limited editions have their place in the context of special occasions including,
for example, anniversaries. Even still, it’d be preferable to have those variants continued absent of a number or marking that distinguishes the,
let’s say, anniversary run from the less collectible runs that follow.
This topic is broad and with many factors so I’ll leave it there to save myself from exhaustion. However,
I feel it’s worth more discussion both among makers like Spyderco and consumers like us.
To derail some, I’d like to share my thoughts with other consumers like you as well as makers like Spyderco on another platform. The official Spyderco forum. However, I ran into trouble creating an account on the site so I’ve yet to have the opportunity.
Braden great points, I especially enjoyed your meteorite metaphor, nice one lol.
I do have to admit there is a very fine line between blatant FOMO marketing tactics ::cough:: Spyderco ::cough:: and a truly special piece. I agree wholeheartedly that anniversaries and the like deserve pieces that represent such achievements (I’m talking to you CRKT).
Whatever the take away is from this discussion, I sincerely hope it sparks more conversation like this, glad to find that there is an ever deepening philosophy to this hobby, thank you for taking the time to reply. All the best, cheers!
Nice counter point with merit. Looking at Spyderco, however, they’re overdoing it. There is a new sprint or exclusive twice a month (or more). It’s gone beyond the saturation point and is having the opposite effect, at least on some of us. At the very least, I wish Spyderco would increase the minimum number required for an exclusive/sprint.
This is an amazing topic to tackle Nick. So many valid points. To be honest I hate the whole limited edition bs that you have touched on here. Thanks for addressing this subject. Your awsome! Thanks for keeping it real, for real lol. All the best. Till next time.
I want the CF shaman so bad but it's going for over 400 on eBay. It's my favorite Spyderco by far, but I can't justify that price
I have a nib cf Shaman for $300. Also have a Manix 2 cruwear, smooth g10, and a PM 2, m390, red g10. Not trying to rip anyone off like they do on ebay.
Don’t reward flippers.
@@abc456f hey I'm definitely interested in the shaman! Do you still have it?
@@wrliggin2 Yes I do. You can email me at srg914@yahoo.com for more details. Thanks.
@@wrliggin2 just checking if you still want the knife?
What's dat watch? Phoibos?
Its a way for the manufacturers to get more revenue in. Simple as that. They are milking it.
I think back to Hinderer Knives about five years ago. People were buying 300-400 dollar knives for 800-1000 bucks!
That, however, was NOT a company generated FOMO. It was a matter of Hinderer being a small company that came onto the market with quality products that quickly became in very high demand. The company has grown significantly and with some patience you can now get the knife you want at normal retail prices for the most part.
I wouldn’t touch one of their knives back then but now I’ve got a couple. But even that non-company generated FOMO ended up pissing people off because as production caught up, folks were now holding onto knives that they spent 800-1000 on that they couldn’t even sell for half of that.
I respect the company because they didn’t cause the prices to soar. The retailers they were distributed through at the time though...hard for me to respect them for being the price gougers.
I agree completely about these "limited" editions.
Another video "influencer" just gave a talk on wanting more limited editions, for the collectors out there, to allow more factory made collector knives.
I've been a collector of EDC knives for many years, since I was 10 years old. But I am not a collector of safe queens, and as soon as a knife is issued as a "collector's piece" I believe an artificial situation exists.
You said it better than I could, thank you for your common sense.
I normally agree with you Nick, but I actually thought you were joking on many of your points. People buy these sprints/exclusives/etc... its a fun thing to do. on many of the forums they make these points and it sounds like sour grapes for not getting it. there is a whole business side of this you are not addressing. Its expensive for DLT/BladeHQ/etc. to do these sprints. they are bringing combinations that are not going to be popular to the masses. by making a small run, some people will miss out, but its far better than having blades left over for companies that are taking a chance on offering these. it sucks not everybody gets one, but this drives variety because spyderco can't do all these combinations without these small runs.
Was this video at all in response to the KnifeJoy Green 20CV PM2?
I snagged one when they dropped yesterday but heard a lot of people couldn’t refresh the page.
The video was filmed a week or so ago, but when I saw that go down, I figured it was time to post this.
Nick Shabazz I see.
Good timing! I’m sure this will evoke similar feeling from people that missed out on the PM2 due to the websites bug.
This is the only channel I watch that you contribute to so I appreciate your willing to repeat yourself. SUPPORT KNIFE RIGHTS.
Are they doing any more runs of that pena? For the bhq victorinox runs, I like them bc it's celebrating the success of the youtubers in our small community.
My brother and I have over a hundred knives. We are so frustrated with spyderco over the micarta shaman we don't even want to keep buying spydercos now. Irritating.
As fun as limited editions can be... when you actually get one... I fully agree with this. The fact that I can’t get a 20cv PM2 for the fair price that they were still frankly pisses me off. Loved the color. Love 20cv. Love the PM2. It would have been a fantastic production knife for their permanent PM2 lineup. I know there are a couple on eBay but they go for too much and I’m not going to buy any knife on eBay. The PM2 20cv run is what ruined me on these limited editions. I think they made like 600 and they were sold out in less than a half hour. That, in my opinion, it BS.
Andrew Kimmons try half a minute
I really wanted a Micarta Shaman and I preordered one from knifecenter.. months went by and just got an email that they can't fulfill my pre order so now I'll never get one. I ignored all other drops of them from different sites because I thought I had one secured. I can see the appeal to limited editions, I have a few myself including the St. Nicks 4v shaman. Some like the Shaman I really wanted and some I bought because of FOMO so it definitely gets people to buy things that they might not have if they were readily available.
Feel the same way. I see no point in dropping money on a knife you’re afraid to carry because they’ll never make anymore. If I buy something I do so with the intention of using it, limited or not. I used to get amped up about the Spyderco sprints like everyone else, but now they’re so frequent they’ve practically become white noise. I’m completely numb to the whole sprint thing at this point.
This popped up today in my feed 10 months later. Annnnndddd the limited edition trend has gotten even more intense
Putting out limited editions to create scarcity is lazy marketing
In CRKT's case they lost money. Many more than 500 of those would have sold. They shot themselves in the foot. I'm afraid the PM2 tanto point will be a sprint. Those would sell like crazy.
...Claiming that limited editions create scarcity is some mental gymnastics level logic. I don't even see how you made that connection. Limited editions are in addition to the regular line. Anyone that thinks that's "scarcity" needs their head examined and some introduction to grade school level math.
Hey ive got my Nick Shabazz limited edition Victorinox so im good.
I wanna order one for sure.
I couldn’t agree more!! It’s frustrating to see a variant of a knife you want but can’t get!!
As somebody who is getting into knifes or really anything now days I do my research and find one I like only to find out is they are not available. So annoying
I may or may not be watching and agreeing with this while holding my m4 dodo
Dude. Preach on. Long time follower.
Edit: seriously love you man. No shilling for any brand. It’s a problem for real.
It’s crazy because I feel people would buy 2 limited edition and just post both in a single pic on a FB fan page just so they can get the approval AND hate of their fellow peers. I think that feeling is probably a mental addiction.
I used to be an avid sneaker buyer but got so washed out from seeing an oversaturated market of limited drops or exclusives. I moved from aesthetic to functionality and shortly I was more interested in knives/multitools. A few months in however, I found myself once again starting to lose interest just because I started to see the same trend with limited exclusives as the selling pitch. I personally believe that performance and functionality should be the main selling pitch instead of these limited runs, especially in this market.
Limited edition burgers at Macdonald's says it all.
McDonald's
I was amused when I saw other commenters using LE as shorthand for limited edition. My first thought was Lawful Evil.
Lawful Evil aligned knife. Useful against good guys. Very useful against chaotic good guys.
I see it as Law Enforcement :D
Nice to see that you held on to a Skaha 2. I agree with your take on the "Crucarta" Shaman, it was an absolute debacle!
Ive never been so mad about anything as i was about that micarta cruwear shaman. Pre orderd it on like 8 diff sites months before it dropped. Was in raffles and lotterys. Still dont have one. Am still mad.
LOL the Homefront was only $295 but the CRKT XDC limited edition is &750 !!! At that price I'll throw a few bucks more in and get on the list for a Norseman 😊🔪 I'm 60 years old and there's never been a time I NEEDED a $900 knife to complete a job. It's all just empty desire driven by hype. Sure if I had money to waste I'd probably waste it on an expensive knife I really don't need but in the practical world it's nice to watch the reviews and look at the product.
There are collections and then there are collections of rare items. Which of these would you rather have?
Totally agree Nick, couldn't have said it better! And great examples as well. I enjoy greatly these type of vids! Thanks.
I think the limited edition pieces are one of the drivers behind the growing toxicity of the hobby...
Mitch Feghaly “Growing toxicity of the hobby.” Agreed. Between this trend (cough...Spyderco...cough) and the Chinese invasion, 2019 really turned me off. Sadly, I predict those two trends will continue, if not worsen, in 2020 & beyond.
Claiming "toxicity" in this day and age is a warning sign. And often an ill-formed opinion based on confirmation bias at that.
I don't see how limited editions themselves could be the issue - and it isn't. It's dealers, and a small cadre of unscrupulous people. Y'know, like how it is with most things, the very small percentage of bad eggs ruin it for the other vast majority. And I take issue with you blaming an object over these people. You're effectively being part of the problem then.
matchesburn lol how does claiming that artificially inflated secondary prices driven by manufacturers limiting production of superior pieces make me part of the problem? That behavior does drive the basis of a toxic marketplace. Lol nice try but I think we are arguing the same point
@Castle Bravo
They are unscrupulous people. They are attempting to artificially control the market. That is, by definition, market manipulation for personal profit. Whether you buy knives or limited editions or not has no bearing on that - regardless of what YOU do, they are still unscrupulous people attempting to game the market. That is immoral even if you don't buy knives whatsoever.
@@xerotrace2251
"lol how does claiming that artificially inflated secondary prices driven by manufacturers limiting production of superior pieces make me part of the problem?"
You just answered your own rhetorical question: because it's the secondary market resellers and scalpers that are causing that. Not the knives. Not the company making them. The resellers trying to manipulate the market for profit. Blame them. Not the knife or the company making it.
...In fact, unless you have conclusive and iron-clad proof that companies are directly involved in this charade and scheme (and, no, "We let people that have money buy as many knives as they can afford. It's not our place to judge who can buy them." is not "directly involved in market manipulation"). Which... well... good luck. Because that doesn't make much sense from a business perspective. I can guarantee you the ammunition scalpers I saw from ~7 years back weren't working with ammunition companies to manipulate the market for reselling. And considering knives are an even smaller market with fewer purchasers and there's no shortage - artificial or otherwise - of knives... I don't see that being a likely outcome.
"That behavior does drive the basis of a toxic marketplace"
Toxic in this day and age carries baggage associated with it. Toxic implies something that is contagious, infectious or spreading in a community and is often used in that vein to counter things like "toxic ideas" or "toxic people" or "toxic behavior" as if we need to quarantine ourselves from it in a community. Hence when you use "toxic," I only see hear klaxons going off. It's the same way with words like "problematic" or "micro-aggression" or "racist" being bandied about. Often it's anything but an accurate portrayal of a community and just serves someones own personal bias.
Even if that is put aside, let's look at the reality: pocket knives are a very small market to begin with. The limited edition market for that is even smaller. The people reselling limited edition knives at inflated prices are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the community. And if you truly think such a small group that is so easily avoided is such an issue... That's one hell of a mountain from a very small -mole- anthill you're making.
They can make more, it just won't be numbered and certified, retaining the value. I agree though that if you're going to do a numbered edition, either combine it with a coin, a box and engrave something in the knife that makes it special, that makes it a beauty to show off on the shelf, then make 50 thousand of the same thing with all the same qualities but without the special platinum whatever
I would love to have at least 2 choices of steel if possible (Economy and premium); at least on the more popular designs. It seems like most of the more rugged blade steel versions are going straight into collections, never to be used, and that is very sad.
Spyderco made a lot of sprint runs. I suspect this situation also hinders them from upgrading their steels. Like, if they upgrade all Seki City models to SG-2, those people who bought an Massdrop exclusive would be pissed. But on the other hand, Spyderco is known for trying new steels, put them into public testing in the form of sprint runs. To my knowledge, no other production company would dare to try something like Maxamet, Rex 45, K390, SG-2, V-toku 2, Curwear, especially in the same platform so we can discuss the difference of steels (and I'm guessing those steel have availability problems, too). And that's very necessary, I'd say. Currently we would agree the edge retention of LC200N is around the level of S30V, while I remember clearly just last year in a Spyderco meeting Eric said LC200N is at AUS-8 level, lower than 440C. So there's a big difference between their lab test result and real world performance. That's the bright side. On the dark side, I understand people get mad about not having a chance to get one sprint run, and Spyderco's hunger marketing is pretty ugly, but honestly, a bunch of speculators are also responsible.
I agree, they can do a limited edition and make it special in a thousand waves. For collectors just the certified number is all that matters. It's actually counter productive, literally in the most precise meaning of the word.
I fully agree, but there are some companies out there that do handle this correctly in my opinion. I was thinking specifically of Böker, they have for instance released this year for their 150th anniversary a Limited Edition Barlow (model 100600, 150 were made) with a Chad Nichols damast blade made from the original steam engines from the Böker factory, but they also sell a 'standard' Barlow (model 100501) which is available anytime anywhere.
As a recent purchaser of a Lime Green 20cv PM2, I'd like to offer a counterpoint. Functionally proven PM2 anatomy, considerable material upgrade, fun color, $2 more than the "base model"... while I'm sure not a loss leader, this was an extreme value relative to primary market offerings.
Aslo, I got lucky and scored a Crucarta Shaman... so now you know 3 of us!
Oh, absolutely, that one was a great deal. And if KnifeJoy turned around and said "Don't worry, the next batch of these will be coming in July, and we'll have twice as many", that's awesome. But 500 and done? Ugly.
I've always wanted a Spyderco Worker, if only because of the history associated with it. And hey, Spyderco released it again.....as a sprint run. By the time I found out they re-released it, it was too late.
When DLT trading put the PM2, m390, red g10 up for sale, their server crashed. I spent the next hour and a half refreshing their page every ten seconds and finally got one, now trying to sell it, and not for ebay ripoff price. Also have the cf Shaman, s90v, and Manix 2, cruwear, smooth g10.
Agree with you Nick, DLT ticks me off they always have their sale at 2PM doesn’t anybody have to work, I work outside, and they say limit 2 why not limit one, works great for scalpers not their customers
I think 'Limit 2' is designed for the collectors who like to buy one to carry, one to keep pristine.
The human brain is a complex organ with the wonderful power of enabling man to find reasons for continuing to believe whatever it is that he wants to believe. So ..loose the limited edition , signature line, exclusives and all the other stuff that tends to make most people unhappy. Great topic !!
I have a psychological thing where if I really like a knife and it’s either not made anymore or is not making sales so you have the idea it won’t be around much longer, I won’t use it, or will get more than one so I can use one and keep the other one in case I lose or break it. It’s tiring and that’s why I stay the hell away from limited. Glad I’m not the only one who feels this way about the community.
Great video sir. I’m torn on limited editions personally. I have daily carry knives and collection knives. So for me I do like some limited editions for the collection. So I’m 50/50
Hi, Nick. Great vid. Hit the like once again on title alone. Didn't chance my mind after the vid. The one thing that I didn't totally agree with is the notion that a sprint run is by definition a less useful tool. I think that it can be for some people, maybe even most people. But I think of Spyderco and I will admit that Spyderco is one of my favorite manufacturers...and by far the worst sprint run violator. I love the Delica, but she is not a great value at $80 with FRN scales and VG-10 steel. But just a couple bucks more, an S30V version was available. Now she is more of a value. I have the M390 and Cru-Wear versions both around the price of the Giant Mouse Iona, making them very compelling in my estimation. I missed out on many more, which I would love to have. And some, like the S90V version, I am not interested in because I am not crazy about the blade steel and that price is $120. So I don't buy it just because it is a sprint run. But there are times when a Spyderco creates an intersection between upgrades and value. I do wish their production batches were closer to demand.
the guiltometer is maxed, literally just got the m4 dodo...but it ain't gonna be no safe queen!
Damn, don't let Pm2og hear this!
Thanks Nick! Totally agree. That Cru Wear Manix is nice and some people on eBay trying to get over $400 for it. I don’t like how it’s so hard to get a Strider nowadays too. I guess it’s smart tactic to keep demand high just like Rolex does. I don’t get why Spyderco does this tho. I feel like they would make a lot more money if they just made production cru wear shamans instead of the s30v ones; similar to how the Benchmade superfreek isn’t a sprint run.
Totally agree!! A limited addition color is fine but better materials should be full production.
I agree 110 percent on what your saying nick..if your scared of scratching your knife its just a dust collector
My problem with limited editions and sprints is that it proves companies like Spyderco *can* target the higher end... and they generally don't want to. I would gladly have that Para3 Lightweight in M390 if I could get one, and if I could rely on continual support for it.
cloudcleaver23 As much as I love Spyderco (aside from all this sprint/exclusive BS), continual support has never been one of their strong points.
I had notifications set up on BladeHQ’s website for when the micarta Shaman became available. Since thousands of people were interested, they had to do a lottery. It was exciting till I didn’t win. 😢
I really enjoy the channel and even these rants because of your honesty. Please keep being you. Respect. 👊🏻
I don't like limited editions, and I don't want knives I own to become so valuable that I question using them. Little makes me happier than to discover an *underhyped* knife (current favorite: the Ti/M390 Real Steel Megalodon) I can pick up cheap on the used market and use the crap out of.
I'm glad to see that Massdrop has started simply *selling* knives, at least for some models. I could see some value in a hybrid approach where it's limited and sold drop-style unless it sells quickly. I'm still waiting for tracking to update on my $40 Gent though.
I strongly agree Nick. I love M390 and it's equivalents...so I wanted the latest para 2 drop. I do not
care enough to sit on the PC and score one of a tiny number. And I NEVER buy a used knife or a NIB
from anyone. They just won't get my money. I love Spyderco knives...but the Shaman debacle and other
factors have caused to me to buy 6 ZT knives. None are special editions and all are Sinkevich.
And half of them are 20CV. At some point you would think manufacturers would discern they are
pissing off loyal customers by offering what they really want in a limited way...causing said customer
to go elsewhere. It turns out, I really like ZT. They sell what I want. Simple, eh?
I agree with most of what you said, but while I haven't purchased a sprint run from Spyderco due to financial concerns, I disagree slightly on sprint runs of production knives. Having short sprint runs allows a company like Spyderco to offer their designs in more flavors and materials than they could if they just kept the sprint runs in longer production. However, I do absolutely agree that they should make an effort not to make the runs so small that it creates artificial exclusivity. Also while I do agree that they should never commit to a "one and done" run, I don't necessarily think they need to commit to a second run from the outset either, unless there isn't a similar quality full production version.
Enrique Pena comment here about his front flipper trapper. I spoke with him directly at KYCKS, he said he only plans to have about 100 more made and then that'll be it, he said look out for them around February or March.